Intensity and Good Faith - Justin Weaver (part 1 of 2)

Part 1 with Rainmaker Mortarman Justin Weaver to trace the jump from rushed pre-deployment training to the first hard weeks in Ramadi 2004, including the moments that flipped the switch from joking around to understanding the stakes. Along the way, he talks the dark humor, the unit bonds, and the way combat stress scrambles the timeline even when the details remain in memory. 

• March Air Force Base training and a lost practice grenade 
• last-minute reps with slings and reload drills 
• Oceanside gear-buying stories
• Leaving California, arriving in Kuwait, and when teams get split 
• A suicide at Camp Victory
• Phone calls home... and relying on the platoon as family 
•  the blow-up doll riding in the convoy 
• first impressions of Ramadi, and expectations colliding with reality 
• Early casualties, shifting roles from dismount to gunner 
• First contact near Saddam’s mosque
• April 6 chaos, linkups, and the confusion of detainees under fire 
• How memory blurs sequence

If you like what you've heard, this is a multi part episode. Make sure you listen to the rest of the story, you know.

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Transcript

Meeting Justin Weaver

SPEAKER_00 0:10

Okay. Um I'm Justin Weaver. I was uh PFC in Bramati in 2004. Um I was like I said, I was one of the the boots that got dropped. Um I I went to uh I was one of the guys that went to Hawaii before we came to 2-4. Um we were only in Hawaii for uh I took four days, three days, something like that. But um but when then we got when we got to 2-4, we came

March Air Force Base Hard Lessons

SPEAKER_00 0:39

right before March Air Force Base, I want to say it was. Somewhere around there. And um I I don't remember a ton about March Air Force Base, but I do remember um Regelsberger was making me low crawl under these bushes over and over. I don't know to the hay with me, whatever. But he kept making me low crawl, and I lost one of the trainer practice grenades in the mud. And so then he made me dig did dig a grave all night while on fire watch for for the grenade. Uh that that was the biggest standout there. Um nice.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

And did you have permanent uh gear retention uh practice?

SPEAKER_00 1:24

Oh I never lost nothing after that. I never lost nothing after that. That's too funny.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

That's good.

SPEAKER_00 1:32

The whole time I'm digging, like, man, I'm a fucking grenade, it's it's it's it's my fucking grenade. Oh but yeah, I I remember like staying in that little house there at March Air Force Base, we're all crammed in that little house.

SPEAKER_02 1:47

Yes. Uh-huh. Yeah, the old abandoned officers' housing, and it was all like dusty and dirty for where they let us let us sleep in it when we did those combat ops.

SPEAKER_00 1:58

Yeah, yeah. Um I don't remember like um I I mean I vaguely remember doing like little patrols and stuff through there and stuff, but I don't remember a lot of that. I we had some kind of what was it called was it miles gear or something like that? We did it.

SPEAKER_02 2:21

Yep, we had generation two miles gear, which was uh terrible because anything would set it off. If somebody hit you with a flashlight, it would set it off. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

Okay, and if that's what I was I thought I remembered that, but I wasn't sure if I was like misconstruing something there. Um but yeah, I I remember that, and then um I I had gotten like I said, got there right before March Air Force Base, and then um we didn't do anything in between March Air Force Base and um and then leaving, right?

SPEAKER_02 2:55

I think every platoon was different. Uh I know my platoon did one more little field up, and we went out.

SPEAKER_00 3:01

I was um I wanted to tell I for I forgot to say I was I was with Rainmaker, um yeah, 81's Rainmaker.

SPEAKER_02 3:06

Um Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I I was with Map 2, and so I know map two and map three for sure went out and did a machine gun range out on the out not quite in the backyard, but in between uh out there was that weird, very small range between our camp and Telega on the back of the mountains. And we fired just a little bit of of uh medium machine gun rounds and did some vehicle movement stuff, which really didn't I don't know, wasn't that useful, but it got everybody familiar.

SPEAKER_00 3:40

I was saying I'll be yeah, so Sergeant G, you know, kept us uh all like out there doing like um small smaller exercises and stuff like that. I just mean we weren't doing any large-scale training exercises or anything like that in between.

SPEAKER_02 3:51

No, I agree.

SPEAKER_00 3:52

I think Sergeant G kept us on our toes.

SPEAKER_01 3:55

Yeah, yeah, we were if I rem if my memory serves, we did some backyard stuff, but we didn't go out. Right.

SPEAKER_00 4:05

Yeah, I would say tape tape houses or something like that. I remember doing like tape houses down um by by the gym, uh I think are in in in Mateo. I remember doing some tape houses down there and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 4:16

Um we were we were doing a lot of reload stuff down on that little range that uh Gunny Maraki had put out. Um and so I think we were just hitting my memory is that we were just hitting that stuff. We had done all of our field work prior to all of that is my memory. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:35

Yeah, well, and that's um, I I know like um well we were we were a lot of us, I know a lot of the boots that came with me and stuff, like we had never used like the tax slings or anything like that. So we were just like getting used to those and snapping in with the tax slings and all that kind of stuff there at March Air Force Base 2, snapping in on a barrel at March Air Force Base. I remember um doing that whole thing.

SPEAKER_01 4:57

Um I I think that was a time period that I think Aponte had figured out how to make a tax sling out of the extra webbing gear of uh the new Molly gear.

SPEAKER_00 5:09

Um and so I remember Yeah, I think it wasn't like you wrapped it around your arm or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 5:15

Um Yeah, it was yeah, we had some stuff going on. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 5:19

Because I remember I thought I was on high speed, I thought it was all high speed, and I went out and into uh oceanside and went to one of those shops there and bought bought myself like a Black Hawk uh tax slings shit before I left. And um I was such an idiot. I bought one of those um uh I bought one of the the sidearm, like the the ones that they you see in the cop movies and shit that they wear over their shoulders. It's like the under-the-shoulder holster.

Buying Gear And Oceanside Chaos

SPEAKER_00 5:48

I bought one of those for some reason. Thinking I was gonna get it like a nine mil right off the bat and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 5:57

Yeah, is that yeah, that was um that that was was that the big one that was just out from the movie theater?

SPEAKER_00 6:04

Yeah, yeah, that's yeah, that's exactly where it was. Yep. Me and me and Hurley, um, me and Hurley went out there and um to get gear because we were gonna gear all up and stuff. Hurley was Hurley's like my best friend at this point. Like um, we had been through book, he was my rack mate in boot camp, and then an SOI and all that stuff like that. So um we were close, and uh we went out there and um we we bought gear at the gear store and stuff, and then we had ended up at this uh the adult bookstore right there by the movie theater and stuff, and uh and we were in there, and this old guy came up to us and like come come up to and walk between me and Harley, and he's like, I've got beer and porno back at my beach house. You guys should come back there with me. And me and Hurley are like, Um, no, we're we're good, we're good. And we like left his place and we walked by like two miles down the road, and this guy was still behind us, like following us. He's like still trying to get us gone there and stuff. I was like, Hurley, none of us are even attracted. What is this guy doing? That's awesome. Oh, yeah, it was scary. I thought I was I'm gonna get raped before I even get to combat.

SPEAKER_02 7:14

When uh when when me and Blake were in SOI, there was a guy who got paid and probably drugged, but he he said he was drugged. Maybe not, maybe he went willingly uh for that exact same scenario. Some guy lured him to a beach house and and took uh naked pictures of him and didn't touch him, according to him, but uh just took a bunch of naked pictures and he uh it ended up being a whole big thing, like and we all knew about it because he had to stand in front of the whole company and tell the first song and all this dude was fucking crazy, it was hilarious.

SPEAKER_00 7:50

Yeah, I said I said I I'm from a small town, so like that was the first time I ever experienced something like that where you're like somebody ballsy enough to like just walk and be like, Hey, come back to my beach shop for some porn and stuff like this. I didn't know how to take that.

SPEAKER_01 8:02

Yeah, yeah. There's uh we could uh we could have uh an a whole other podcast on uh oceanside stories.

SPEAKER_03 8:10

I was gonna say, yeah, just oceanside alone, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:14

Yeah, I have several.

SPEAKER_00 8:16

Yeah, that was uh that that was an adventure. I I I said uh like because I I'm from the East Coast, so uh you know, I was at Camp Geiger and all that like Jacksonville is quite the uh reputation too, but no oceanside blew that out of the water.

SPEAKER_02 8:33

Yeah. Uh so as far as as far as moving forward after all the gear stuff and going to March Air Force Base, uh, it wasn't long after that that we went ahead and and got ready to take.

SPEAKER_00 8:46

We left Valentine's Day, right? We left Valentine's Day, didn't we?

SPEAKER_02 8:50

Two days later, February 16th. Oh, it's okay.

SPEAKER_00 8:52

I was saying I thought it was somewhere right around there. Um because uh I um I I remember uh being on the grinder there and getting ready to get on the buses

Leaving California And Splitting Teams

SPEAKER_00 9:04

and and stuff there. And I can't remember, um I think it was Sletin. Me me and Sletin were talking about it being Valentine's Day when we're leaving and stuff. That's that's the only reason I remember that date.

SPEAKER_01 9:15

Yeah. Hey, by any chance, do you remember? I just this just popped in my head. Do you remember when we were told how they split the sections up? Was that before we left?

SPEAKER_00 9:25

Or was that in was that in like I want to say that was in um what was the what was that was it camp, was it called Camp Victory in in Kuwait there?

SPEAKER_01 9:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:35

I want to say that's where we got split up. I want to say that's where we got split up because I can't remember. I I I as far as I can remember, before we left California, like we were all one platoon because I didn't the the the concept of sledgehammer and rainmaker hadn't even come up to us at that point or anything like that. Um so yeah, I I would say that was Camp Victory. Because when we got to Kuwait, we went to a different base first, didn't we?

SPEAKER_02 10:03

We flew into the one of the two air bases. I don't remember which one, but I believe it was Camp Rfjon, which was one of the air bases, and then we jumped on buses. Well, we were there for a while, and then we jumped on buses.

SPEAKER_00 10:16

Okay, that's I think that's what I'm thinking is is that first yeah, the that that airbase. Because I remember getting on the buses, and like the buses were so hot. I think the guy had like the heat on or something. It was it was so hot, and I'm thinking, like, what like they're trying to kill us.

SPEAKER_02 10:35

He was probably trying to cool the bus down or something. Who knows? It was it's uh turn the heater on.

SPEAKER_00 10:41

Because yeah, um, we we were we we drove from from that because um that was that was the or where we flew into, yeah. We we flew into there and then stayed on a base close by or anything if if it wasn't that place, and then we um drove to the camp victory because that camp victory is where that guy killed himself, right? From one of the line companies.

SPEAKER_02 11:04

That's correct.

SPEAKER_00 11:05

Okay, I was gonna say I I I can't remember if like that was it really happened or if that was something I was imagining or or what.

SPEAKER_01 11:13

Uh yeah, no unfortunately.

SPEAKER_00 11:16

Yeah. Yeah, I was gonna say, yeah, I I thought

Camp Victory Suicide And Reality Check

SPEAKER_00 11:19

I thought so because I was didn't he like shoot himself in front of the chaplain or something like that? Was that what it was?

SPEAKER_02 11:26

Uh the story that came to us eventually was that he had gone to the chaplain, and but he to my recollection Okay, maybe that's what it was. He was in uh like in a bathroom somewhere, not necessarily a Portageon, but like maybe the bathroom of the chapel.

SPEAKER_00 11:42

Um that was no no no maybe he he he went to the chaplain, maybe that's where I was getting the too confused.

SPEAKER_02 11:49

Yeah, yeah, he he had had some issues, went to the chaplain, and then it it what whatever happened happened, and he uh yeah, ended up shooting himself. I again I believe it was in the bath it was in the bathroom of somewhere.

SPEAKER_00 12:03

That was my first indication of kind of like like things things were like kind of serious here, like but it's up until that time I was you know still like the the carefree boots, you know, they well the haze boot, but like you know, carefree, like you know, but um I said, but then that's the first time I was like, yeah, I mean, like people people were really willing to go that far. Like, this is getting serious.

SPEAKER_02 12:25

It's fun um it's funny you say that because Blake and I were having a recent discussion. There's a there's a big difference between like you guys who showed up literally right before we deployed and the rest of us who were there for three years before we deployed. We had had a ton of suicides prior prior to deployment. I mean a ton. He was just another I don't even remember that being a big deal to me because it happened all the time. Uh and we we were kind of like just listing. I was like, I can list six or seven, I mean, just uh a whole bunch. It happened all the time. We had a guy slit his wrists uh in Okinawa. We had like I mean all kinds of shit. One of the guys on guard shot himself with his pistol. Uh it was it was this happened all the time.

SPEAKER_00 13:10

So it to us, to us, it was for me, the the only suicide I had even like had experienced there was in boot camp. I got a guy like swan dived up the third deck, yeah. Uh in in in boot camp. That was the only time I experienced it. Unfortunately. Uh but yeah, when that happened, I was like, whoa, like this is like because I I in my mind, like that that did happen in the military. Like, you know, like we were just this well-oiled machine where everybody was like perfect hogs in the wheel or something, you know. Like, I I didn't it it was uh a minute before I had my eyes opened to realize like, you know, we're we were we were all kids basically anyway.

SPEAKER_01 13:53

So I mean you know, so we were literally it was just last night we were talking Nile and I were talking about it, and we listed off quite a few between it would be between March of 01 and you know December of 04. But that's just the suicides. I mean, I I don't even want to count the number of attempts because there was a bunch of people that attempted at different levels. I there's I I'm not gonna tell the story, but there's one guy that his attempts were definitely um if they were actual attempts, then he really didn't understand how physics work because he was just throwing himself down three stairs.

SPEAKER_00 14:36

But no, that's uh and see the that doesn't make sense to me because like why would you why would you kill yourself because you're afraid to go over there and get killed? Why would you kill yourself?

SPEAKER_01 14:48

Like well, if if I remember the story correctly, and again, uh you know, the word of mouth is never to be fully trusted, but my understanding of it that I had heard was his family uh was very unsupportive of the war itself, and had been giving him very negative feedback about uh what the war stood for, and that he was on going to be on the outs with his family. And so, like it was a interesting.

SPEAKER_02 15:19

That's not the story I heard either. So I'll tell you my my version. Uh he had stolen somebody else's gear and got caught, and and uh everybody was treating him like shit, said they couldn't trust him anymore. That was the story I heard. So and I don't know which one's true, to be quite honest, but but that was a story that I heard.

SPEAKER_00 15:39

Oh that's see, because I I I mean I I didn't have uh you you guys became my family as as far as that that was. I didn't have uh I didn't call home or anything in Iraq because I didn't have anybody to call home. You guys were my family.

SPEAKER_02 15:54

Yeah. Also, if stealing gear was uh was a bad thing, I mean literally our whole company stole gear all the time.

SPEAKER_00 16:02

So that's what I was gonna say. I I think I think uh well most of us were like existed on stolen gear.

SPEAKER_02 16:10

Yeah, yeah, there's there's no thieves, it's just everybody trying to get their gear back. That's exactly right.

SPEAKER_00 16:15

Exactly. That's what I was gonna say. Yeah, you you do tactically acquire things. Um I was gonna say we we we took I don't know how much stuff from the army over there. Like anytime the army had something laying out or something, we took anything that wasn't nailed down.

SPEAKER_02 16:32

Yep, these are truth statements. Yep. That I mean that was that seemed like that was how most people occupied their time in Kuwait. You were either uh doing PC or stealing from the army.

SPEAKER_00 16:43

Yeah, that's uh or or or devising ways to steal from the army. Yeah, I remember, yeah. I said um I didn't I I didn't utilize the the phone place there um too often or anything. I used um so I I gave everybody my um my phone cards and stuff because my mother you know whatever you want to say about her, like she like when I call when I first got there, I called home. And um when I called home, she picked up the phone and told me if I couldn't call

Phone Calls Home And Care Packages

SPEAKER_00 17:22

home at a normal time to not call home anymore because I was interrupting their sleep. And I was like, Well, shit, mom, I was in like you like that could be the last thing you say to me. I could die like right now, and then that's that's what you're gonna say. And she said, Well, we're tired. I said, All right, no problem. I ain't gonna call home no more. Uh so so from then on, I would write home that my mom would send over mouthwash bottles for Jack Daniels and shit and porn uh on a regular basis. Well, I mean, that's it. That was what my mother was good for.

SPEAKER_02 17:50

I was gonna say that shows she cared, man. At least she sent you.

SPEAKER_00 17:52

I was gonna say supportive, at least, you know. She said she sent a blow-up doll. She she sent a blow up doll. And no joke, like we drove around with this blow-up doll in the passenger seat, like for for like three days. It was it was hilarious.

SPEAKER_01 18:09

That's pretty cool. We have a picture of that.

SPEAKER_00 18:11

That's do you do you? I was gonna say, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:14

That's awesome. That's too funny.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

She's uh she survived a firefight and stuff. Like she should she should get some kind of awards. Nice.

SPEAKER_02 18:27

Your blow up doll has a combat action ribbon.

SPEAKER_01 18:29

That's fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 18:30

Yeah, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_01 18:33

Oh yeah. That's too funny. That's really good.

SPEAKER_00 18:37

Um I said, um people would like always ask me, ask me about um borrowing porn and stuff. I said, that's like really awkward. You asked your mom to send this and that. I'm like, it's really awkward to ask my mom for porn. Like, you guys realize that?

SPEAKER_03 18:55

Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:59

But hey, you know, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 19:01

Well, you kind of mentioned uh Kuwait. You how did you get up to Ramadi? Did you drive up in the convoy or did you fly over with yeah?

SPEAKER_00 19:09

Um, no, I was in the convoy, I believe. I mean in seven tons. Yeah, I was saying I remember like we we looked like the Beverly Hillbillies, like going up there with like all this shit like piled, all of our gear piled in the trucks and stuff, and we're all driving up there. Yeah. Um, I was in a seven-ton, I remember going up there.

SPEAKER_02 19:28

It it's so weird to me that everybody

Convoy North And First Smell Of Ramadi

SPEAKER_02 19:30

went like in different ways. I I don't know. To me, I thought everybody just drove in their own trucks, but yeah, you guys were piled in seven thousands.

SPEAKER_00 19:36

Oh, yeah, that's what that's what I thought. I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_02 19:38

Right. I I was driving in our own Humvees. Blake was in a Humvee floated with gear to the gills. Like, I I don't know. It and then some people flew up.

SPEAKER_00 19:47

I I thought it was just advanced. I was saying, I thought the advanced party flew up, and then the rest was went up in seven tons.

SPEAKER_02 19:52

So the advanced party did fly up, but the also the uh a good portion of Rainmaker also flew up.

SPEAKER_00 20:00

So it was yeah, there's there's a yeah, there's a chunk were they the ones that flew into Alasad or something like that?

SPEAKER_01 20:06

Yeah, yeah. There was a it was a chunk of 81s that came came up later. I don't I don't know what the count was, but there was definitely a rear party that came up um afterwards.

SPEAKER_02 20:18

And there's no telling that's those convoys were whatever, 40, 45 vehicles long, just super huge. So it's uh it's hard to know who who was where.

SPEAKER_00 20:28

Well, and I I know like the that was like that kind of mistakenly set my my gauge for for the deployment, like of that that convoy up there, like we didn't see any action or anything. I'm thinking, man, a convoy looked big if they didn't like attack us or anything like that. Like shit, this is gonna be like this is gonna be a breeze of a deployment and stuff. Like, uh yeah, the you know, little did I know.

SPEAKER_01 20:53

So what do you remember? Do you remember coming into Ramadi or into a hurricane? I um I do.

SPEAKER_00 21:07

It has like such a weird, distinct smell to it.

SPEAKER_03 21:10

Yes, it does.

SPEAKER_00 21:11

It's just like a burning hair on top of like hot trash. Like I I don't know, it's it's just distinct. And that was my first thought, man, it it really stinks here. And and then I thought, like, it's it's it's it's hot as shit here because everybody's like, oh well if it if it was a dry heat and stuff. I said, No, we were right beside the Euphrates River, it was humid. Um yeah, that that was the uh that was my that was my first impression. And like when I first when I first was told like we were going to war in Iraq and stuff, my vis my view of Iraq, or whatever like I said, I'm from uh backwoods hills in Pennsylvania, like we're we're all dumb here. My my view of Iraq was like some sand dunes. And like some bedouins shooting at each other from sand dune to sand dune and shit like that. Like that's what I thought Iraq was. Like people living in tents and stuff like that. And then when we got there, there were like buildings. I was like, oh shit, what is what is this? Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:14

I mean Baghdad has skyscrapers, but and we didn't drive through Baghdad, but uh Ramadi had pretty big buildings.

SPEAKER_00 22:21

Didn't we do some kind of didn't we do some kind of convoy? There was some kind of convoy that we went to, was it Baghdad or Fallujah or something? That we went to uh I want to say it was like uh Camp Anaconda or something. Well that we did a convoy to Camp Anaconda or Campbell.

SPEAKER_01 22:41

While we were there, or do you mean on the way up?

SPEAKER_00 22:45

No, while while we were there, yeah, while we were there. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:47

We we we did a couple, I mean we did a couple runs. I mean, we went out to um we went to that memorial for the pilot, um, which was at the uh that one airbase. Then I mean we hit Takatam a couple times, we went to El Asad a couple times. I mean, I think we I think we went to Fallujah once or twice to do some drive.

SPEAKER_00 23:06

Okay, maybe it was Fallujah because it was I was saying this was like a this was like well no no we went we went past Fallujah on this time because this was like um um a couple hour drive that we were on and we had to go through um we went past like we went past a city that had skyscrapers and stuff and um and then we went through like a desert for a while and all that and um the base we went to had like an Olympic-sized swimming pool and shit on it.

SPEAKER_02 23:32

That I mean that sounds like Camp Anaconda. I was there years later. I was not there when you were there. Camp Anaconda was to my remembrance, was one of the I mean it was it's Ballad Air Base is attached to Camp Anaconda and also one of the big uh the big hospitals was there. So maybe you were picking up someone who was wounded or dropping off someone who was wounded.

SPEAKER_00 23:57

I don't know. I don't know why you would have to. I would say we were picking somebody, I want to say we were picking somebody up, but um maybe, maybe it was Oliver North or something. I don't remember exactly that I remember because we were we were saying they had they had a movie theater and a swimming pool with stuff on base, and we were like, no, we we don't even have running water.

SPEAKER_01 24:20

Yeah. Well, that could it be because isn't Anaconda Anaconda's north of Baghdad, technically, right? Yeah, correct.

SPEAKER_02 24:27

It's it's directly north, yeah. It's out way, way on the outskirts. It was it's not in town, but it's north of Baghdad.

SPEAKER_01 24:34

It it it's entirely I I don't remember very well enough, but there there something of the story does ring a bell though, uh Weaver. So I but I can't put my finger on it.

SPEAKER_00 24:43

Because I remember I remember it wasn't Belugia because we went past Belugia, because I remember like going down the highway and looking over, and they were saying that that's Belugia. There were a bunch of tanks lined up on the highway out there in front of it and shit. Um, and then on the way back, there was a Humvee that had not one of ours, but there was a Humvee on the highway that had gotten hit by a car bomb that it was missing like the back axle and shit like that in the middle of the road, I remember.

SPEAKER_02 25:12

Okay. Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 25:14

Um I can't remember. I know I can't remember what we went there for, but um well, realin it back to Ramadi.

SPEAKER_02 25:23

You remember any of the first early impressions and missions of Ramadi?

SPEAKER_00 25:28

Um my first thing was um was he a combat engineer that uh got hit by the RPG in the head?

SPEAKER_02 25:35

Yeah, that was uh Lance Corporal Dang from he was attached to Fox Company.

SPEAKER_00 25:40

Um yeah, where we we were like um the QRF, I think, or something for that.

SPEAKER_03 25:45

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 25:45

Um that was our first that was like the first casualty we took, right? Or was McPherson's

Early Casualties And First Mission Shock

SPEAKER_00 25:51

the first weapon?

SPEAKER_02 25:53

Well, cash none of those things. I mean, uh so technically the the first big casualty would be McPherson was on March 13th. He he was the one with the the serious stuff, and then the next one right after that, well week later, was Worth with the uh hit in the face with the Oh yeah, I I say I forgot yeah, I forgot about Worth.

SPEAKER_00 26:13

Um, yeah. Yeah. But uh I like in my head, we didn't for some reason I didn't think that we had taken contact that early. In my head, like we didn't take contact for the first month in my memories for some reason.

SPEAKER_02 26:27

It it's funny that's everybody's memory, but literally we but it's depending on which convoy you were in. You either arrived at Hurricane Point on March 7th or 8th, and McPherson was March 13th, right? So five days later, like it was not long, and then yeah, that's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 26:45

Like I thought I th I I remember thinking, man, like they're all smiling and waving to us, and like they're they're they're this is gonna be easy. Yeah, so so uh it seemed so much longer in my head.

SPEAKER_02 26:56

Yeah, yeah. And then uh yeah, Dang was on the 22nd, so two days after Worth.

SPEAKER_00 27:04

Okay, uh, because um uh yeah, I can remember going out to to Dang. Um that the because that was we had the what were they like the little little little doors on the hobby? Did they shoot like literally shoot that RPG through that window or whatever on the door?

SPEAKER_02 27:20

I was not there, I don't know, but I know it it was into the camera.

SPEAKER_00 27:24

Yeah, I guess you weren't there, obviously, but yeah. Yeah, I was I I would say uh did they have the three-quarter doors or whatever. And they were shot it through there, and um that that's that was my first that that was when it hit me that like that this shit's real. Like this is real, this isn't their joke. Like that they're actually trying to kill us here.

SPEAKER_02 27:42

And and for you specifically, were you a dismount? Were you a driver? What uh what kind of roles?

SPEAKER_00 27:47

Um when when we first got there, yeah, I was a dismount. Um in the beginning I was I was just a dismount. Um I wanna say um I believe I was on Sergeant G's team.

SPEAKER_02 28:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 28:02

I I think so. Um I was the second truck, or no, the third, I was the third truck. I

Dismount To Gunner And Team Rotations

SPEAKER_00 28:10

was the third truck. Um because I'm pretty sure it was Corporal Minor and Lieutenant Dobb in the first truck, and then it was Sergeant G and um uh and Savage and them on the second truck, and then uh I was the third truck uh and then whoever was behind us spitum. Yeah, that's as far as I can remember anyway.

SPEAKER_02 28:36

Yeah, it sounds like you guys kind of switched it up a little bit too. So you weren't.

SPEAKER_00 28:40

That's what I was saying. We got it rotated around a lot, because that that's that's why my memory's so fuzzy that I I got moved around a little bit. So because like one time I was I was the Sergeant G, and then you know, then I became a gunner after a while, after like hurly, and those guys got hurt and stuff, and so I moved around a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 28:58

No, we we we we switched it, it was the same with Sledgehammer. We we s we switched it up a little bit. I don't I don't know why. You know, uh talking with these other guys from the different map platoons. I see I see the benefit of this really sticking to a team, but we we really kind of threw the dice for whatever reason. Uh I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 29:19

Yeah, I was saying I got rolled around I got rolled around a lot. Um and um I was I believe that um I was I was probably on like three three different fire teams at at one point. Um not at the same time obviously, but like throughout the deployment. Um but then yeah, I was uh I think I was in I can't remember even who my squad leader was. Um I want to say Corporal Fernandez was my squad leader. Or my I mean my fire my my fire team leader um there. I think so at the beginning. Um yeah, like I said, and then about halfway through, well, um when Hurley and Holm got hurt is when I um I switched to being um a gunner then because I took Hurley's position.

SPEAKER_01 30:13

Okay. And then were you a gunner the rest of the time? Or did you Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:18

Yep. So I started out started out on like the saw, and then I got all excited because they let me be on the Mark 19 and all that.

SPEAKER_01 30:27

There you go. Nice. So going back to the earlier part, you bring up, you know, dang was the first time that you know you saw that the first intensity piece. But do you remember the first time you got into contact? The first time you had a shoot back?

SPEAKER_00 30:44

Um I can't remember if which which one happened first, but I remember um it was on a night, um I don't know if it was night taskable or night QRF, but um, I think it was night taskable that we were just on a patrol and we were coming back and we got ambushed at Saddam's mosque. Like uh they they shot an RPG down the road at us, and um, because Sergeant Major Booker was with us, and he had ended up like shooting this guy down an alley. This guy was

First Contact Near Saddam’s Mosque

SPEAKER_00 31:13

like a like uh I don't know, um he was like it was a perfect silhouette to shoot at down this alley, and he was he was shooting an RPG at us, and Sergeant Major popped this dude, uh popped this dude, and um we ended up like tracking him down and he was dying inside this little uh foyer of this house.

SPEAKER_02 31:32

But um it's funny this is this is an extremely common story that Sergeant Major Booker like shot somebody and you had to run off to find like I Sergeant Major Booker is a is a hard ass man, dude.

SPEAKER_00 31:44

Like he he is he is something else, yeah. Um but yeah, yeah, like um the they they uh because I I remember and then to the right of us, there were like um they had some machine guns set up in like some of the little shops there and stuff. What comes up in my mind is I can remember seeing the flashes in the windows and stuff because it was it was almost pitch black over on that side, and then all of a sudden you'd see the flashes. But it was poor choice because the guy the guy that shot at the RPGs at us was on the other side of us. So I mean they were shooting at shooting each other essentially.

SPEAKER_02 32:19

Yeah, yeah, bad bad crossfire.

SPEAKER_00 32:22

Yeah, yeah. Um yeah, because it's as inaccurate as they were, they weren't hitting us either. Sure. Um but I I wanna say that that that that only lasted probably not even not even five minutes. And um I can't remember if that happened first or if um if if April happened first. I can't remember what what like um what that happened or what which happened first. That ambush on what I think it was Y Street, okay, uh it was called or whatever. Um the the that that could have been hell, that could have been after April for all I remember. Um I do get mixed up sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 33:07

So you're kind of talking about April. Tell them tell me a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_00 33:11

Um I can yeah, April was um my my first memory of April. I know April 6th, we weren't there in the morning, or like the earlier, we we didn't come out until later, I think.

SPEAKER_02 33:23

My understanding was you were the third out the gate. If and then that's just from my notes. That doesn't okay.

SPEAKER_00 33:29

Maybe it wasn't the third, but I was saying I know that there were people that went before us, but but like um, because I I remember we were in the smoke pit

April 6 Firefights And Linkups

SPEAKER_00 33:35

there, and we seen Lieutenant Dobbs come over from the COC there. And anytime Lieutenant Dobbs came over to the hoosh, you know, you knew shit was going out, and you could hear the gunfire and shit out in town anyway, but we knew something was gonna happen. Um and I want to say, yeah, April 6th, we went out there, and I think that was the day that um I I remember we we had linked up with you guys at some point. Um because I remember specifically you because you were shooting a 203 in you shot a 203 into a window, like far down the road, and everybody was like, it was a big deal because it was a really accurate shot with the 203 on that guy. And um, that's that's how I can remember that. That um and we were shortly after um there, we were traveling somewhere, and like um somebody had shot at us from this field and we stopped, and like the entire company opened fire into this field. Uh yeah, do you do you know what I'm talking about there? Um I do.

SPEAKER_02 34:40

Yeah, so specific walk and shoot, yeah. Yeah, specifically what you're mentioning is so you guys had been ambushed in the south of the city, uh close to the Y intersection of Easy Street, which I think is what you were referring to previously. And then uh you linked up with us later in the afternoon.

SPEAKER_00 34:58

But is is is the attack or is the ambush um because I remember an ambush where we had turned left onto a road and there was like um a little little fenced in area there where there was like a guy with an RPK in that fenced in area there, and then there was like a wall behind him, and then uh an alley beside that, and they had a taxi behind that wall that had a bunch of like um ammo and and stick grenades and shit like that in there. Um and I remember based on everybody's description, that sounds correct, yeah. Um the set satisfied guy up there, and I was I uh Ackles Ackles had like shot through the the armor on the the Humvee because when when that that guy started firing at us, they um you know we were all nervous and and shit. And I want to say they slammed the brakes on just as as like Ackles went to return fire, they slammed the brakes on and it threw him forward, and he ended up shooting like six holes through the Humvee armor, that Hodge armor we had.

SPEAKER_01 36:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:05

Um he wasn't the only person that did that.

SPEAKER_01 36:07

I won't I won't name it. There was a couple guys that I know uh had their uh had their bugger hook on the uh boom switching dust.

SPEAKER_00 36:19

Yeah. Oh yeah. Well I I I remember at first I thought I thought that was enemy fire coming in. I was like, man, Ackles, you got so lucky that that didn't hit you. And then I then I realized that the the the impact was the wrong like the wrong way. But uh and it's yeah, because I I remember um I want to say it was me, Sergeant G I want to say Accles was there, but um after the the savage had shot that guy in the with the RPK, we had to like go into that little fenced-in area, and um the they Sergeant G made me and somebody else climb up on top of that like wall back there. And um when when we crawled up over that and looked down, we saw the taxi there that had the just the trunk open with the stick grenades and uh some ammo and stuff in it.

SPEAKER_03 37:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:13

Um and uh because I I remember um somebody shot an AT4 at a building down the road too. That that's all I remember of the of like that that that engagement there. Because I think I think that ended shortly after that, or right around there. Sure. Um because I I remember then then we started driving down the road again, and we had somehow acquired two two POW or like two prisoners there, and somehow one of them died.

SPEAKER_03 37:46

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 37:47

Yeah, I can't remember how this happened. Um I I want to say that we had them like tied up and they were like laying in the Humvee in the back of the Humvee, and we started taking fire or something, and somebody

Prisoners In The Humvee And Confusion

SPEAKER_00 37:59

slammed the brakes on, and the guy like slipped forward and broke his neck or something.

SPEAKER_03 38:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:03

Uh I want to say it was something like that. Um because I because then there we had gotten a couple other prisoners at one point, um, and we had them like lined up along the wall there, and uh we got him into the Humvee and we started taking fire, and they tried to like run out of the Humvee. I guess I don't know, they didn't realize they were in a Humvee or whatever, and they tripped over the tailgate and they were all falling out the back of the Humvee, like busting their face open and stuff like that. And uh Lieutenant Jobs like trying to yell at somebody to get those guys wrangled in in the middle of this fight and stuff, and uh uh I want to say that the we we we we got one or two of them back, but uh the other one was dead. Um I was gonna say that was when we like linked up with you guys, wasn't it? Uh around there.

SPEAKER_02 38:56

I mean, I don't know what happened prior. Uh I do remember you guys showing up with enemy prisoners of war in the uh in the back of your high back. You linked up, you linked up with us. We had been basically surrounded for a couple of hours and didn't really have the number of guns needed to clear fast enough. Like we were moving forward, but it was super slow, and we were supposed to be linking up with the Echo Company and the snipers that were pinned down up on the north edge uh of Nova.

SPEAKER_00 39:27

Was that on like Route Apple or something?

SPEAKER_02 39:30

Like around there, was that it was the north edge of Nova, uh on in the in the Sophia district. Yeah, Apple intersected basically right where you would have turned.

SPEAKER_00 39:39

Yeah, I was gonna say I thought I thought I remembered like um Apple was right around there.

SPEAKER_02 39:45

Yeah, and then we went up to the north edge, and the other the link of the memory that you're remembering is it was uh when we got up to where the snipers were, there were still a handful of enemy. I don't know how many. There's still a handful of enemy in a field, and that's when everybody in the two platoons opened up with everything. I mean, rifles, pistols.

SPEAKER_00 40:04

Wasn't there a marine wasn't um wasn't there a marine that was like trapped or like pinned down somewhere in a in a in a watershed or something like that?

SPEAKER_02 40:11

Yeah, in one of the small pump houses.

SPEAKER_00 40:13

There was uh Okay, I was gonna say that I thought that was real.

SPEAKER_02 40:16

There were two marines that were separated from everybody else, not in the pump houses, but out that direction. And then further off towards the edge of the river was uh was the one marine that was that was trapped in the pumphouse.

SPEAKER_00 40:30

I thought that was that that happened.

SPEAKER_02 40:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:34

That's why I said that there are there are things now that like well, I I I will swear that I I thought happened and stuff, and I'm completely remember misremembering it wrong and stuff. So I because because like I said, I thought with um I I thought the day that home and Hurley got hit that we were leaving Snake Pit and they got hit by like a little soda can ID.

SPEAKER_02 40:58

Could be, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:59

I mean both both of the uh well though they're saying that it was uh like I was told that it was something like um secured to the wall or something.

SPEAKER_02 41:08

Could be.

SPEAKER_00 41:08

I guess, but I I th I thought it was a like a soda can on the wall. But either way, I I

Hurley’s Wound And How Memory Warps

SPEAKER_00 41:13

um I I I I said I thought we were leaving um Snake Pit. I um and I thought it was in that um what is the that little ghettos right there by Yeah, that was that was my memory as well. Is that near Snake Pit.

SPEAKER_02 41:27

Yeah. Only because we were your QRF, but I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 41:30

Okay, I was I I thought I thought that's what it was, but yeah. Um because I was gonna say, wasn't it by by by the canal there, the canal street or whatever that was called? Yeah, um by Snake Pit. Yep. Okay. Um yeah, because uh that that one kind of got to me too, because like I said, Hur Hurley was one of my best friends. Uh you know, we went through everything and and and I felt so bad because like prior to that um in boot camp and shit, like Hurley was not exactly like you know, the the best rack mate or anything. Like he was slow and and he was never online in time or like he never had his rack mate and stuff, and you know, if your rack mates are wrong, you're wrong. And so I was getting killed for Hurley all the time and stuff, and like in boot camp and stuff, I I I hated him. He didn't like uh he fit and then uh and then one day in in SOI, I I flipped out and I was like, Hurley, why are you even here, dude? Like you what are you even doing and stuff? And he like gave me this to told me the story of like that he basically even like I mean Hurley's pretty well off and and stuff, like his family and stuff, and he just didn't want wanna be one of those kids with a silver spoon. He wanted to do his share and stuff. So I felt like such an asshole for saying that to him and stuff like and shit, and from that that day on, like I had a new respect for him, and he was one of my best friends and shit. And then so when he got hurt, like that was hard on me. Um because I was scared that he he died. Like when he got hit, that messed him up pretty bad. And uh yeah, that was that was that was rough. Um but see, like in my in my memories, that was before April 6th and stuff. But I guess it was May I guess May 1st or something like that, they're telling me.

SPEAKER_01 43:15

Late, late uh April. That was yeah, my understanding 29th or something like that. Yeah, that was 29th.

SPEAKER_00 43:23

In my head for some reason, in my head for some reason, that was like um our first casualty in in fucking in weapons, but I guess it wasn't. No, it wasn't uh because we had wars and shit. But like that's as I said, I was mixing those up for some reason.

SPEAKER_01 43:40

Yeah, memory. This is uh one of one of my biggest lessons with these conversations is just how how crazy memory is, and how how we how we remember.

SPEAKER_00 43:53

I can remember, I can remember things, but I just can't remember like what order they happened in, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 43:59

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 44:01

And this deployment was so chaotic that everything kind of blends together. Like you know you were always doing all these crazy things, but you don't exactly know like which crazy thing happened which day.

SPEAKER_01 44:12

If you like what you've heard, this is a multi part episode. Make sure you listen to the rest of the story, you know.