Rejected, Addicted, Near-Dead — Then Jesus Found Him | Dr. Stephen Phinney

Dr. Stephen Finney's truly inspirational story shows how one can overcome adversity through faith. His journey, marked by a profound spiritual awakening and overcoming addiction, is a testament to the power of Jesus Christ.
He grew up in an oxygen tent, lived as an outcast, died on a hospital table, saw an angel in the sky, became a drug‑addicted stripper riding with the Hells Angels… and then Jesus Christ pursued him with relentless love.
Doctor Stephen Phinney’s story is one of the most extraordinary testimonies you’ll ever hear — a journey from rejection, addiction, and near‑death to a life of identity, calling, and supernatural purpose.
In this episode, he shares:
•  the angelic encounter that marked him in fourth grade
•  the moment he died and saw his body from above
•  how Jesus chased him down through a popcorn‑stand evangelist
•  why he fell back into darkness — and how God pulled him out
•  the power of identity in Christ and the exchanged life
•  how he went from illiterate to discipling leaders around the world
If you’ve ever wondered whether God can redeem your story, this episode will shake you awake.

IOM America | Identity in Christ | 127 North 8th Street, Sterling, KS, USA

Want to be a guest on The Valiant Forge Podcast? Send Mark Osborne a message on PodMatch, here: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/17432638464878159623a121d

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Most men think God gives up on them when they fall, but doctor Stephen Finney's story proves the opposite. He met Jesus in a way most people never will. He saw an angelic figure in the sky with arms wide open as a fourth grade boy. That moment marked him, but it was only the beginning. Because the man you're about to hear from went from an oxygen tent, almost dying on the table, childhood rejection, to drugs stripping the hell's angels, and a life spiraling out of control, until Christ pursued him with relentless love. Today, doctor Finney is the founder and president of IOM America, a ministry dedicated to reshaping the identity of born again believers by advancing the indwelling life of Yeshua. Through Christ centered media, discipleship, prophetic outreach, and the true stream community, he equips the church to walk in truth, confront cultural compromise, and live from the inside out, empowered by the Holy Spirit and rooted in Scripture. He spent decades teaching believers who they are in Christ, not just forgiven, but crucified with him, raised with him and indwelt by his life. And his testimony is one of the clearest pictures I've ever seen of a God who refuses to let his sons stay lost. Today we're walking through the moments that shaped him, the angel in the sky, the death experience, the overdose, the spiritual warfare, the call to discipleship, and the identity message that has now reached millions. Let's get into it.

SPEAKER_00 1:46

Welcome to the Valiant Forge Podcast, where we help men overcome life's battles, show up better in the world, and become a valiant warrior for God. This is a place where we share practical strategies that will equip you on life's journey to help you become the man God has called you to be. Are you ready to overcome your doubt and fulfill your purpose just by gide? If so, let's go.

SPEAKER_01 2:14

Dr. Finney, welcome to the podcast.

SPEAKER_02 2:17

Thank you very much, Mark, for inviting me. I've been looking forward to this for some time.

SPEAKER_01 2:23

So so have I. I I know a lot about you because I follow you online, but and I know I know parts of your story. I'm I'm very excited to hear your story. You know, I I told you this just before we hit record, but I want the audience to know you are a mentor of mine. You know, it is even if it isn't official, a lot of the things that you say and the things that you guide me in help me a lot in my journey with Christ. That's why I'm I'm so excited to have you on. Like I've been beaming about this for the last couple of months since we've been talking about it.

SPEAKER_02 2:57

Well, you know, that's interesting that you say that because you know, you, as you know, are one of our most active members on our social media platform, TrueStream. And you're the first one I go to to read the comments that you make. And uh now you're starting to publish articles, and so that's like kind of like my morning devotions. And so the the feelings are mutual and the commitment is mutual.

SPEAKER_01 3:26

Well, I I appreciate that, and I appreciate you prompting me to do these things. So let let's let's get into your story a little bit. I I kind of mentioned who you are and your your missionary and everything in the intro, but how did how did it all begin?

SPEAKER_02 3:47

Well, uh, as we kind of unfold the interview today, we'll probably get into the details of my childhood. But uh when I was in fourth grade after um a uh severe uh rejection experience, I went out to the to the uh playground to play with the rest of the schoolmates, and I sensed something up in the sky. And uh, you know, kind of keeping in mind that Christianity and Jesus Christ was not in our home at all. In fact, my father was the son of a famous preacher, and he rejected everything in regard to the church. So I was about as ignorant as you probably could get when it came to Christ. But I sensed this and I looked up, and there was an image in the sky, believe it or not. There was an image in the sky of what kind of what I would more describe today as an angelic looking being, and the arms were open wide, and couldn't see the face. The bright light was kind of blinding the face, and it just stopped me in the middle of we were playing baseball, and it just stopped me right there in my tracks. And so I, you know, I I looked up again to see it, and it was gone. So I finished playing with the rest of the kids, and then on my way back to the schoolhouse, Brad, my best friend, um I sensed it again. I looked up, it was to my right this time, and I looked up, and there it was, and I saw the face, and it was smiling with the arms open wide. And I put my hand on Brad's chest and stopped him and I said, Do you see it? And he saw nothing. Wow, and so went, you know, back into the schoolroom and finished the day or whatever, but it left a mark on me. I mean, that image is in my mind as I'm talking to you today, as like as real as that day, and so that's fourth grade, and I go, you know, through my years of rejection and all the stuff that uh went on, and when it came time for my salvation at 16 years of age, I got flooded with that image again.

SPEAKER_01 6:37

Wow. So so how did you come to salvation? Were there things throughout those years? You know, so you were in fourth grade, so you're probably 10 years old throughout those six years. Were there things that other things other than that angelic being that were kind of leading you towards the life you were supposed to lead?

SPEAKER_02 6:58

Well, to get into the rejection before the salvation at 16 years of age was I lived in a bubble until fourth grade, an oxygen tent. Oh, and like a literal bubble, yeah. Wow, and so from birth until five years of age, they had me in the bubble, and then from five years of age up to fourth grade, they had me uh coming in and out of this oxygen tent, and so therefore, I could really rarely, if ever, go to school, and so I didn't learn how to read or write or any of that kind of stuff until I met my wife at 21 years of age. I was completely illiterate, and so um I got tired of being trapped in the house, and I said to my mother, um, I would rather live a short life out there than a long life in here. That means being trapped in the house, right? And so I ran out the front door, and she was hollering at me saying, You're gonna die, you're gonna die, you're gonna die. And I remember running out into the field, we had this, you know, small lake pond, you know, not too far from our house. I ran out, went through the the the uh the uh Kansas wheat and whatever to get to this lake that I that I could see outside the window. And I got to the lake and I collapsed. And so they rushed me to the hospital and I died. And uh, so they the doctor resuscitated me, according to my mother. And as I was laying there dead, and he was pushing on my heart and doing whatever it was that they were doing to bring me back. Um I had another strange experience. I felt like I was up in the corner of the room looking down on my mother and a nurse holding her, and the doctor, and me laying on this this this bed. And the experience was horrid. It was like this dark tunnel behind me, and I was being sucked into it, and it was not a pleasant experience. It wasn't like, oh, I get to go to heaven, right? No, it's like I'm I'm gonna be sucked to hell. That's what it felt like, and it was just a horrible experience, but I I still have that vivid picture in my mind of my mother and the nurse, and then and the doctor, and then before I knew it, I was staring the doctor in the face. Obviously, he brought me back, and so I thought that was a dream for years. Wow, and on my parents' 42nd uh wedding anniversary, I was telling the family of this dream, and my mother said that was not a dream. Wow, and so here I was, you know, a married man with my own children. I learned that this experience was a real experience, and she explained to me, you know, the real story of how I flatlined, so I had that filed in my my life. So as I was starting to be reintroduced to the school system, the rejection was unbelievable that I received, and because I I I was appeared to be basically a dummy. So the way that I communicated was through uh artwork, and by the time I hit eighth grade, I had already won a two-year art scholarship, and uh because it was the only way I knew how to communicate, and the rejection that I experienced from fourth grade on to my 16th year um is why I'm writing a book about it. It's just endless, constant rejection and bullied and being picked on and being told I'm never gonna mount to anything. I'm a retard. In fact, I graduated from high school as a uh mentally re retarded person. That was my status, and so the rejection is what I consider a gift to lead me to what I do today, but at 16 years of age, I had this this flashback of this figure in the sky, and the Lord was calling me into his bosom for salvation, and at 16 years of age, being hooked on drugs, sex, and rock and roll, uh, I received Christ.

SPEAKER_01 12:24

So how did that come about? Did someone minister to you in that way? Did you just have a moment where God kind of revealed himself to you where you're going to a church? How did how did you get it?

SPEAKER_02 12:37

I was definitely not going to a church. Gotcha. I was working at my uncle's popcorn stand so he could have a week vacation. It was one of these old-fashioned popcorn stands on a street, you know, in a city, and whatever. And so on my first day, uh, there was a knock on the window, and I thought it was just a regular old, you know, give me a backup popcorn kind of kind of kind of uh opportunity. So I opened the door, and this kid says to me, Did you know that Jesus Christ loves you? I won't tell you what I told him. It was nasty and slammed the window, and then you know, blew it by as just kind of a radical Jesus freak and right went on with my day. The next day, I'm in there selling popcorn and whatever, and there was a knock on the window at 310, which I didn't realize at then, but it was 310 the day before. This kid was right on time. 310 in the afternoon, I opened the window, still didn't recognize him, and he said, Did you know that Jesus Christ loves you? And I told him to go to double toothpicks and slam the door in his face again. And I went home to my aunt's house that night, and I said, Who in the world is this Jesus Christ? And she told me, and I still don't remember what she said. And so that night, you know, they have they had a little apartment down their basement, and I was trying to get to sleep, and there were these dark images coming at me. Today I know them as demons, and they were just flooding my mind, and I was scared to death, and I didn't know what else to do except for hollering out this name that I had heard the past two days, Jesus Christ, and they went away. Wow, I got up in the morning, sat at the breakfast table with my aunt and uncle, and I said, Who is this Jesus Christ? And you know, they they said whatever they said, but I don't remember what it was. So I went to work and I'm waiting for 310. And sure enough, at 310, he shows up again. I didn't even bother opening the window. I opened the door, I grabbed him by the shirt, pulled him into the popcorn stand, sat him down in that chair, and I said, Tell me who this Jesus Christ is. And he said, I'm just here to tell you that he loves you. And he got up and walked out. Wow. So I'm pacing in this little popcorn stand, and I'd been working there now for three or four days, and I'd not notice there was a Christian bookstore right across the street from me. It was a basement store, so there was a sign that came out. So I just locked everything up, went over to the Christian bookstore, walked in the door, and said in front of whoever was in the store, is there anyone here that can tell me who Jesus Christ is? So the lady said, Wait, wait, wait, wait, right here. So she went and got the manager. The manager came out and grabbed a prayer book off of the bookshelf and gave it to me and said, Just read this and you'll discover Jesus. Well, I was blobby. Yeah, exactly. It was a pretty cover. So, you know, I left. Finished up my work week. I went home to the farm and and uh pulled up and went in the house. And I my mother was the only one home, and I said, Can you tell me who this Jesus Christ is? And my mother says, Oh, hell, I don't know. Go, go, go down and talk to the pastor. Wow. So I got in my my my car and I drove downtown, small little community, walked up to the pastor's door on a Saturday, knocked on the door, and he came to the door and I said, Can you tell me who Jesus Christ is? And he goes, Wait, wait, wait, wait, right here. He went and got his Bible. We walked over to the empty church next to his house, went down to the front of the church, he explained the gospel to me, and I told him about my fourth grade experience. And he said, Jesus has been calling you your entire life. Today is the day.

SPEAKER_01 17:27

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 17:28

And he let he led me to Christ.

SPEAKER_01 17:30

Wow. That's can I can I highlight some things before we move on? Yeah, please do. Because I love, you know, there's a scripture that talks about pursuing Jesus Christ, hunger and thirst after righteousness. And Jesus was making you chase him without you even realizing it. Because he presented himself to you, then he walked away. Presented himself to you, then walked away. And you had to go and find all these people for, you know, and you you had that desire to really know who this Jesus was that brought you peace in the middle of the night. I just love because I know today, even at 70 years old, that you're pursuing Christ, who he is right now, still today. And it's it's just such a great example of what God did for you in your life. I I just wanted to highlight that because as you were speaking, that scripture just coming, kept coming to my mind hunger for those who hunger and thirst after righteousness. That's that's what you were doing in that moment. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:32

That passion of discovering who Jesus is, was, is the same I have today in talking to you. It never went away. Every day I get up, whether I'm reading the scriptures, whether I'm writing, podcasting, whatever, that exact same passion is probably even more intense than it was on that day. And it was pretty intense during that week of discovering Christ.

SPEAKER_01 19:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:06

But you know, I walked out, I walked out of that church knowing who who uh Christ is in me and that he gave his life for me. But see, that pastor was not able to tell me my identity in Christ. He he didn't have his own his own experience yet of not just understanding that Christ died for us, but that we died with him.

SPEAKER_01 19:37

Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 19:39

And so a year within a year, I went back to my old life.

SPEAKER_01 19:46

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_02 19:47

Except for it was even worse. I became a professional stripper, and I uh became a drug dealer, and I rode with the Hells Angels again, and I was a very, very bad boy.

unknown 20:06

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 20:06

And one night at a at a drug party, I overdosed, and my friends left me on the floor to die. And there was one gal that that hung around, she I found out later she became a nun, but she hung around to to make sure I I didn't die. I was begging the people to take me to the hospital. I knew I was dying, and so they just left the party and went to a different party, I guess. And she nursed me for three and a half hours, saying encouraging scriptures in my mind, and I was just like lost in my mind, it was like a hallucination. By the time morning came around, I said to the Lord, if you get me through this, I'll never go back to drugs again. Awesome. And one week later, I was at a party at my Hells Angels uh friend's house, and uh they were passing around the acid, purple haze to be exact. If anyone knows anything about purple haze, you'll trip on it if you yeah, if you take one.

SPEAKER_01 21:23

I've never tried it, but I've heard stories, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:26

Yes, so the peer pressure was great, and I tossed it down and I realized what I had done, broken a promise to God. Here I am already saved, and I'm freaking out at this party. And so, as everyone else is beginning to trip out, I'm begging God, please, please, please don't let this have an effect on me. And it didn't. I sat through the whole night as everyone else was tripping out, and I became the nursemaiden for these for these uh, you know. Depraved people tripping out on their purple haze. And when morning came around, the Queen Bee of the Hell's Angels for our particular unit said, There's something uh strange about you. And she began to describe this experience. Whenever I was around, her witchcraft wouldn't work. And I didn't know anything about demonic, you know, warfare. Nothing. But she she knew when I was around she couldn't perform her witchcraft. And she says, You get out of our house right now, don't you ever come back.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 22:45

And I did. And I, you know, went to do one of my shows at the strip club. And uh here I am, a born-again believer. You know, I'm getting on stage without any clothes with you know, with a gal doing routines and you know, whatever. And uh I show up there, and her pimp came in from Kansas City to remove me, kill me. Wow. And so they drugged me out in the back alley and beat the living crap out of me. And for some reason, one of the uh a big dude came around the building to see what was going on and saw what they were doing and uh took care of the the matter for me. And I got in my vehicle and I said, God, I don't know what I what has to happen here, but you gotta get me away from this life. So I got a letter from my now wife, and she was a friend uh of the the gal that my brother was dating in a community 45 minutes away. And in this letter, she invites me to come work for this handicap facility to care for the handicap. And I I just knew I needed to to to have a new start, right? So I did. I I packed up, went to this little community, applied for the job, and I got the job, and uh the job was cleaning toilets for two years. And so, but it was a new start. I walked out of the CEO's office. There was this gorgeous woman standing there signing her contract, and that gorgeous woman is my wife, and I looked at her and I said, I'm gonna marry that woman. Two weeks later, I asked her to marry me, and she needed time to think about it. And I said, You think all you want, but you're gonna be my wife, yeah, and so you know, long story short, you know, we've been married, you know, 46 years and have been in ministry almost the full time, and uh that's kind of the full salvation story.

SPEAKER_01 25:16

I gotcha. So was she a Christian? And you you were kind of so she already kind of knew about her identity in Christ, and did she kind of help you discover that?

SPEAKER_02 25:29

She was she has been used every single day since that day to keep me focused on on my passion. She said the reason why she was attracted to me was because if I set my eyes on something, I am passionate about it and will not stop until it's completed. And she grew up in a Christian family and then became saved in Sunday school. So she was around you know the Bible, she was around, you know, other Christians her entire life. That was not the case with me. I can see dark and light very clearly.

SPEAKER_01 26:09

Wow. There's something I want to highlight because I know it's something you do today and you've done for 46 years at this point, where that pastor who helped introduce you to who Jesus Christ was, and I I think a lot of us in the church miss this is we we are definitely commissioned in the book of Acts to bring souls into Christ. But the part that a lot of us miss is as to make disciples of all people. It doesn't just say to get them saved and then wash your hands and you know, I did my job, I got my crown in heaven or whatever, however, we we view it, discipleship is almost at just as important as introducing to someone to Christ. And you know, obviously through your story, you we can see that you had that encounter and then went back to your old life because you were missing discipleship. So I guess what I what I'm trying to get to and to ask you, is that kind of what led you towards the things you're doing today, the the mission you have to, you know. I I want to get to this point too. There's a couple of questions that I've I've had for you for a long time. So when I first saw you on the uh the pod match community, I was listening to some of your music, and you always, and I know why, but I just I want to highlight it for the listener. You always were you use Yeshua, which I know that's Jesus' real name in Jewish, but in America we we always use the name Jesus. Is there a reason that you specifically use the word Yeshua?

SPEAKER_02 27:55

I do. Um since I uh be kind became kind of a resident scholar in Hebrew, uh studied it for more years than I can even count. And I realized that Jesus was the Greek word that was used by the Catholic Church to erase the Hebrew uh man Yeshua. It was a technique used to transfer the uh quote-unquote believers of of the uh first century church, which was the Catholic Church, it was not the Born-Again Believer Church.

SPEAKER_01 28:34

Right.

SPEAKER_02 28:35

Um, and when I realized that, when I and I I studied many different men, you know, who have done Hebrew work on the early gospel, and when I realized that the original letters, everything that is in the New Testament was originally written in Hebrew, uh, I decided I'm gonna go back and learn Hebrew, and I'm gonna read the New Testament in Hebrew. And nowhere do we find the word or name or icon Jesus, except for when it's associated with the constantal movement of starting the Roman state church. So I'm a bit offended. I'll still use it because Americans like it.

SPEAKER_01 29:22

Right.

SPEAKER_02 29:23

You know, it's like calling someone, you know, uh Jimmy when their name is more formal type of thing, but that's why I am pretty focused on using Yeshua.

SPEAKER_01 29:36

Yeah, I I appreciate you telling me that. I, as an American who has used it, you know, I grew up in a country Pentecostal church, yeah, used the name Jesus for so many years, it's it's kind of hard to break the habit. But since since I've been listening to you, I've like really been trying to kind of change it, change my language in that direction. And I I gotta tell you, we'll we'll get back to your story in a second, but you know, on your true stream community, those lessons you've been doing on the Hebrew words, like they're they're impacting me in a in a way I never knew. That's awesome. Yeah, my father and I constantly have discussions about translations of the Bible. My my father grew up on the King James Version, you know, after he got saved, like that was the only Bible we had. We constantly have the conversation like that. Well, that that's not the original. That's the Hebrew is the original. So yeah, it's it's just interesting to me. And I, you know, you can see back here I got multiple translations because I like to get a lot of context, you know, from different views and different points. But those those lessons you've been doing in Hebrew is it's been really impactful for me. And it's kind of pressing me towards I need to learn more Hebrew. I would love to be able to read the Hebrew Bible, the New Testament in Hebrew, like that would be amazing. But I think it'll take a long time for me to get there.

SPEAKER_02 31:02

I could send you a resource of a friend who uh has done the New Testament from the Hebrew in English, but he kept the Hebrew definitions of each of the words, like Yeshua, which really truly means the Messiah. Yeah, it's and so it's different than saying Jesus, who was, you know, that dude that died on the cross for us. Yeah, that's true. But uh yeah, I can send you a resource that would be very helpful for you. And uh he's well known all over the world for you know writing the first Hebrew New Testament, and uh, but that will help a lot. And I still make use of you know King James occasionally and ESV and you know, I have my favorite English, yeah. But the fact is the Western world messed up the Word of God significantly.

SPEAKER_01 32:02

Yeah, yeah, I agree, and I I think as time goes on, they continue to make it a little worse, to be honest with you, because yeah, we we get our own thoughts in there. I I want to get back to your story for a second, and I, you know, something that I know about you, that you're very passionate about the your identity in Christ and the indwelling life of Christ, because as we know, Jesus died so he can leave us his spirit within us to lead us and guide us. And I know you're very passionate about that. And I I'm I'm assuming, and I want you to to kind of lead us there, that you've been passionate about that since probably the early days, and now you have this huge ministry, you know. It it's the uh the true stream, the exchange life, eye on America. You know, I know you do all of these things. So, what kind of led you to where you are right now?

SPEAKER_02 32:58

I was uh working at this handicapped facility early on, and a friend dropped a book on my desk called The Handbook to Happiness by Dr. Charles Solomon. The cover was beautiful. So I took the book home. Well, he first said, Oh, you would enjoy this more than I would. And he was a master's of social work worker, and he was into the sciences of you know sociology, and so he wasn't interested in it. So when I got home that night, I said, Honey, you're gonna have to teach me how to read. Wow, literally, what the words are, and since she knew I was had a whole life filled with communicating to people with pictures, she made me draw a picture of every hard word that was in the Bible. So she would write it out and whatever, and I'd draw a picture of that, and that led to me looking up the pictorial Hebrew of words, and that's how I came to discover knowing Hebrew, they're just pictures. I realized that God Himself was into this picture way of communicating. So that's what started. I learned how to read the basics, you know, and I was going through this book, the handbook to happiness, and it was filled with identity in Christ, Galatians 2.20. Which for the listeners that are not sure what that verse is, it's I have been crucified with Christ with Christ. It's no longer I who lives, but Christ who lives in me in me. And I went, that is my verse. And that stuck way back in those days. I called the author in Denver, and we were living in Iowa, and I called the author, well, Lisa's office, and the secretary, you know, he was pretty famous at the time, and she wouldn't connect me to him. And I said, I'm staying on the phone until either you hang up on me or you connect me to Dr. Solomon. And she went, okay, she connected me to this author, Dr. Solomon. He gets on the line and I tell him my story in brief. Brief is hard for me. And so he hears the story and he said, You need to come out to Denver immediately. I will take you under my wing and tutor you and train you on how to communicate these truths. I said, Done, we'll be there soon. Wow. And I hung up and I said, Honey, we're moving to Denver. And she thought we I was crazy because this job that I had was one of the best jobs in Northwest Iowa. Good pay, you know, blah, blah, blah. And I said, honey, we got to go. So we began to pray, uh, prepare, and we uh made the trip to Denver, and I went through his internship, ended up on staff, start traveling and speaking for him, and blah, blah, blah. And so I have stayed focused on my mentor's teachings of the identity of the believer, not I but Christ, uh, to the point of designing 800 diagrams for him and others, been have contributed to several books that people have written on the identity of Christ and so forth and so on.

SPEAKER_01 37:06

So you wrote several books yourself.

SPEAKER_02 37:10

A few of them, yes. Yes, and and the if it if the podcast, if the article, if the essay, if the broadcast, if the books do not bring people back to this message of who you are in Christ, I'm not gonna do it. Oh, wow. That's the fact. So it has been the theme, the central theme to everything that the Lord has asked me to do.

SPEAKER_01 37:40

Yeah, I I think that's what drew me to you in the beginning. You know, just first, first of all, the fact that you were saying Yeshua a lot. And when I first saw it, I was like, I gotta look up why he's doing this. Because, you know, my my lack of understanding at the time, I didn't really understand it. And then I did, I did some Google searching and some AI asking, like, why would people say this?

SPEAKER_02 38:05

Even AI knows the truth on this one, right?

SPEAKER_01 38:08

Right, exactly. So, you know, when I asked you the question, I already kind of knew the answer, but I wanted you to present it in the way that only you could. But I just think it's interesting how God leads people to highlight certain parts, because, you know, as it says, as Paul says, I think it's in Romans, that we're all parts of the body working in unison. Like God gave me this passion to help men, and God has given you this passion to let people know about the exchanged life of Christ and the Christ, the spirit that lives within you. And I, you know, there are there are denominations out there who don't even really believe in the Holy Spirit. They think it all ended in the book of Acts. Obviously, you you and I know that's not the truth, but exactly. Yeah, so I I love everything you do. But I and I, you know, I kind of get where you're at now. But take me back to the moment that you first had to get up and speak. You're you're a boy who lived in a bubble for five years and just had this. What I see in you is this passion and this desire just to experience the life of Christ to the fullest, even when you were, you didn't even know when you were five years old, you're just, I gotta get out of this bubble, and you just ran out because you had to experience real life, not that life in a bubble. And even those times that you were being rebellious, you were you were just experiencing life. And the fact that you're you were, and I don't like to use this word, but it seems like you were stubborn when you got on the phone, and you're like, I have to know, I have to know more about this passage that I read that I can't leave away. And I'm staying on the phone until Dr. Solomon talks to me. You know, I just I just love that passion. So I want to know the first time that you spoke, because I think you're a very eloquent speaker, an eloquent writer. Everything you do to me highlights the life of Christ in you. So for me, the first time I got on a podcast and had to try to deliver something, I typed it all up. And like if you go back and listen to my very first podcast, you could tell I was reading the whole thing. The first time that you had to speak or even write something or present something to the body of Christ, were you nervous or did you still have that same boldness that you always had in your life?

SPEAKER_02 40:42

Well, first, uh the listeners need to understand that up to the point I'm gonna tell you this story, I had a major problem with stuttering. I'm talking major problem. And it would take you know 20 seconds to get a word out, and people were very annoyed by me. They didn't, they they couldn't stand there and get through my stuttering for me to get through my sentence.

SPEAKER_01 41:15

I see.

SPEAKER_02 41:16

So it's amazing that my wife even chose to marry me because I was in my mind a functional idiot. And an idiot, the true definition of an idiot is someone who stutters and cannot communicate what's going on in their mind, so that's how I felt. So I got invited to this church to give my testimony. First year marriage, and Jane had been teaching me how to read and write a little bit and whatever. Well, today, if I can't put it on one stick'em, then I'm not gonna communicate. And God has kept me to that my entire adult life. You can take a couple notes, but you better make sure it's not more than this stick'em. Then I would take that stick'em off and I would stick it in my Bible, and that would be my preaching notes, meaning the spirit has to do the message, and if I have too many written things, I'm gonna trip up more and the stuttering is gonna come back. And it happened over and over and over again when I was too prepared, the stuttering would come back. So I had that little razor sharp edge on me 24 hours a day. I get to this church, and I you know, I had my stick'em, and I get to this church, beautiful pulpit, you know, the the room was half full, and you know, I was just scared to death. Thank God. And from that day forward, whenever I was asked to teach, I said, I will only teach behind a pulpit. You can't see my legs. Wow. Because they were shaking so bad, and they would always put, you know, water, and I've had water to my right side of my life, you know, since since the early days because of the cotton mouth and the, you know, blah, blah, blah. And so they would always have water there, but it it was too bad because I was shaking so bad I couldn't I couldn't get it into my mouth. So I've got cotton mouth, I'm trying to speak the truth and blah, blah, blah. So, you know, I'm I'm just trying to get through this message that God gave me. And everyone wanted to hear about the hell's angels and my experiences, you know, as the know a depraved stripper and a this and that or whatever. And God kept telling me, no. You will tell them who I am in you. And so from the very first speaking experience forward, I learned something from Dr. Solomon even before we moved to Denver. He said the reason why you are on this path right now is because you refused any other venue than to talk to the person at the top. And he said if you stay with that it'll work with God it'll work with Yeshua. It'll work with any leader that you want to talk to who has written a book or is running a country. Stay with it. So he groomed me and mentored me into uh discipling some of the key theological leaders in America at the time.

SPEAKER_01 45:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:16

Because I just stayed focused on the on on the simple message of who you are in Christ. And that has led to and I'm not saying this for bragging rights, I'm saying this because of what Dr. Solomon taught me has worked all these years is that I have sat and discipled kings in other countries three different presidents of the United States. Yeah and so and so forth and so on. And still still doing that today correct still doing it today.

SPEAKER_01 45:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 45:54

So the simple message is the president of the United States is no different than you and I. No different. As Jane has said to me through the years as I was put before you know famous people and I would get all nervous or whatever and she'd say honey remember you know Jesus puts his pants on the same way you do. Yeah this president puts his pants on the same way you do and just speak to him like you have always spoken to people so I had to be reminded year after year after year that we're just people exactly and so whether it is a janitor they are just as important as the president of the United States no different to them to to Christ. So yeah through the years the nervousness has you know keeps popping up with the flesh and the doubts and the the uh lies from the enemy they don't roll in like they used to they roll in stronger than ever before yeah and he in and the good lord says can you get it on a stick em if you look at my big whiteboard at the other end of my office there's two statements up there. One of them is Steven just do what I ask you to do and when I'm locked up with getting ready to have a conversation with someone that's intimidating me Lord asked me turn my head and I read that statement just do what I ask you to do. The second statement that he gave me was to simply understand that the present moment you're in is the perfect moment.

SPEAKER_01 48:04

Because see I would my flesh would always want more right and and Yeshua kept saying no it's just this moment with Mark this may be your last time to to share the truth just enjoy this moment and I'm telling you Mark as I think you have already experienced this there's no better moment than the one you're in right now yeah it's just you stay excited your head stays clear and the enemy hates a clear head he hates it yeah amen yeah yeah I I was I was a guest on a podcast yesterday and they they asked me like how do you prepare when the Lord's given you something to share I'm like you know what since the very beginning all I've done is show up and be obedient and the the scripture that stuck with me because I I have that identity with Gideon you know I had this low self-esteem for such a long time when Gideon asked how am I going to do this the Lord said I will be with you. Every time I I get up to speak I I try to remember that and I have those same moments I I taught last year for the first time a Bible study class and my my friend he was watching from the back and I I had my laptop in front of me for notes and and whatever and I I he's like every time you walked away from the table that's when I felt the spirit was moving through you that is that's believable I was going to say unbelievable that is awesome.

SPEAKER_02 49:48

Yeah it's okay to to you know write an outline and take notes and study and you know show thyself to you know handle the word of God appropriately. But once the work is done you should be able to fit it on a stickum.

SPEAKER_01 50:05

Amen yeah yeah I love I love that the the way I've always kind of led my life since you know Jesus Yeshua came in is I that there's a verse in Proverbs that says a man plans his way but the Lord directs his steps.

SPEAKER_02 50:19

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 50:20

So you have to prepare you have to plan and and be ready but then you let the Lord take over the indwelling life of Christ. I I I love your story. I'm sure you got more to share but we're we're we're bumping up against time and I would love to just have you come back on and do a full podcast on identity in Christ because I know a lot of men struggle with identity. Before we end there there's a question I ask every man that comes on the podcast and I'm excited to hear your answer in 1 Samuel 22 it says the men of the kingdom were disgruntled disheartened and discontented and they came to David in the cave of Adulum. David was hiding in that cave to hide from Saul because Saul was trying to kill him during their time in that cave with David David led them and inspired them or however you know the Lord led them they ended up becoming David's mighty men. And you know these these mighty men did some incredible things they they helped David secure the kingdom of Israel to become the king.

SPEAKER_02 51:32

Modern day you got a group of men in front of you who are disgruntled disheartened and discontented you have the opportunity to speak into their lives what would you say to them the sword that you see behind me is not just a symbol I shared with you Mark that I collect swords authentic swords a sword literally that is is I hold very dear to my heart and life is the sword my father was stabbed with. The blood is still on the sword. The reason why I'm such a faithful patriot to America and to the word of God is because I understand the impact of a sword. I understand that the sword being the truth the word of God and it is to be held in our hands and to use to be used effectively to conquer anything the enemy throws at us. So therefore I would take that group of men which I have in the past and will in the future and train them how to use the sword not to be fancy with ministries or 501c3s or raising money to you know make sure you can you know do what you do. It's the sword show them how to use the sword that sword behind me has our ministry button in the center of the handle. When I put my hand around that sword the ministry is what God uses to equip and train the men who do gather around and say show me how to use this weapon most effectively so that has been my life is writing books essays podcasts or whatever to equip men and women but primarily my focus is men who want to be leaders and I've seen some of the most famous powerful men in the world today invite little guys who are literally nobodies to the world of ministry sit at their side and equip them with the truth I think the smaller you are the less known you are the more effective you become as a sword for the Lord Jesus Christ Yeshua to accomplish his mission. So that's what it would be equipping the brothers to take up the sword and fight the good fight because the enemy hates that sword hates it.

SPEAKER_01 54:28

Amen man I love that and you know I I call this podcast the Valiant Forge and kind of you know I say where valiant warriors come to be sharpened because as we're out there fighting the battles you know sometimes we get weary and worn and our weapons get a little dull and coming to a place like this where you can hear other men who are learning and growing in the indwelling life of Christ learning and growing with Yeshua you know our weapons get sharpened. So I'm I pray and I know when this podcast comes out that the people who are listening are going to be truly sharpened by the words that you've said today. You know your story will inspire and ignite and I know anybody out there listening they're good they're going to be sharpened and grow. And I am sure that they're going to want to follow you on all your platforms because you know they're going to get more teaching and more guidance and learn about their true identity in Christ. So if you can share with us where we can follow you you know how we can contact with you and connect with you.

SPEAKER_02 55:39

I think the best way is just to go to our primary website which is io mamerica we have over 2000 media productions from movies we've produced to little video vignettes to podcasts broadcasts and we have over 9000 articles available on the site so all of our other venues like true stream substack etc kind of come off of that site so that would be the best place uh to visit yeah and for sure and I know you you kind of just started it and it's growing and it's doing well is your your truth stream community and you will find me on there as well so you know if you're looking for a community where you can grow in the life of Christ that is one of the places to go.

SPEAKER_01 56:36

And I will I will have your website in the show notes as well as you know I'll have a specific link for just a community as well.

SPEAKER_02 56:44

So yeah I would I'd like to put a little plug in there one of my close friends uh serves on the president's cabinet and he has educated me on uh cybersecurity issues but the thing that he's helped me understand the most is that the persecution that is coming probably around 2028 of uh Christians being banned on certain platforms and so forth and so he advised me you need to build your own social platform and that's what we did with TrueStream. We're still building it polishing it up or whatever but it's a safe place for Christians to come and share their life share their stories share their articles etc because the day is coming where Christians will experience persecution online and offline and this is a very well educated man very savvy in the computer industry and cyberspace and uh when he uh gives just enough information to me to kind of enlighten me how to prepare the body of Christ online that's why we built true string.

SPEAKER_01 58:03

Amen. Awesome Dr.

SPEAKER_02 58:05

Fanny do you have any final words before we end yes I I want to go back to something that I saw in you Mark I knew right from the beginning that when you set up or when I actually set up that first podcast interview with you I always give the guests the opportunity to send me the questions they want me to ask because they feel safe and you said something that uh struck an a chord in me and that is you know I really prefer not to do that but just to get online and talk as brothers and let the Holy Spirit guide the talk I knew that moment that uh we were going to be good friends. Amen and we were going to be fellow warriors together because we believe in the stickum you know we may have ideas we want to put out there and the men that are listening right now I just want to say be yourself. If you're a wretched mess so you're a wretched mess. Right. If you've got sins in your life from pornography to abusing your wife or your children or stealing from your boss or whatever okay it's it's where you're at right and when I was in the midst of the going back to the Hells Angels and stripping and doing all this you know drug stuff and whatever God's like yeah yeah he's gonna have to go through that to let go of that yeah and I did and I've never gone back and I I'm so grateful for that. So I am grateful to have you as a a brother in Christ and and friend Mark so thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:07

Yeah thank you for coming on God bless you you too God doesn't just save broken men he forms them identity in Christ isn't just a concept it's a reality you live from and when you finally surrender when you finally stop trying to fix yourself and let Christ live through you everything changes. That's the heartbeat of Dr. Finney's testimony and it's the invitation for every man listening surrender yourself and let the indwelling life of Christ take over I mentioned last week that I'm building a community it's still in the process of being built but you know you gotta follow along so you're gonna you're gonna need to know when it comes out and you can only do that by following along so whatever platform you're listening to this on just subscribe to YouTube Apple Spotify all the podcast podcast platforms that you're following on just subscribe and I will make an announcement when the community is ready to go live and it will be totally free. So it's not like I'm trying to build something and take money from you it'll be totally free because what I've been trying to do from the beginning is build a community of men and you're see I'm wearing a shirt right now that says iron sharpens iron because that's my mission here. The forge is a place where iron gets sharpened so we can go out and use those weapons to take on the enemy and make sure you're subscribed because next week I'm going to be talking to Jake Dobarands. We're gonna be having a conversation that every man needs to hear we get into the difference between knowing God and actually walking with him and how easy it is to let modern idols sneak in without even noticing. It's honest it's challenging and you're not going to want to miss it. So make sure you subscribe stay strong stay valiant keep forging your path and be blessed