Why So Many Men Still Act Like Boys | Dr. Stephen Phinney

What does it mean to become a man?

In this episode of The Valiant Forge Podcast, I welcome back Dr. Stephen Phinney to discuss his book, Why So Many Men Still Act Like Boys. Together we explore masculinity, responsibility, leadership, discipleship, and what it looks like to step into the role God has called men to fulfill.

We discuss the idea of men "hiding behind the skirt," why so many struggle with passivity, and how servant leadership differs from both weakness and domination. Dr. Phinney also shares practical insights from decades of ministry and discipleship work helping men grow in their faith.

Whether you're a husband, father, leader, or simply a man seeking to grow spiritually, this conversation will challenge you to examine where God may be calling you to take greater responsibility and lead with courage.

Topics Discussed:
• What it means to be "trapped behind the skirt"
• Why men struggle with passivity
• How a boy becomes a man
• Servant leadership and responsibility
• Discipleship and spiritual growth
• Biblical masculinity
• Leading with strength and humility

Resources Mentioned:

📖 Why So Many Men Still Act Like Boys
[Insert Book Link]

🎁 Free eBook from Dr. Stephen Phinney
[Insert Free eBook Link]

If this episode encouraged you, please consider following the podcast, leaving a review, and sharing it with someone who would benefit from the conversation.

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:00

Can you explain what that means, being trapped behind the skirt?

SPEAKER_00 0:05

The idea of being trapped behind the skirt is why do you think God designed men to be so captivated by the opposite sex?

SPEAKER_05 0:18

Because that's really where I see men all the most.

SPEAKER_00 0:22

Well, the first thing I think is kind of obvious, and that is that the man needs to recognize the fact that he does hide behind this curtain.

SPEAKER_05 0:30

Because I hid behind this curtain for many years and I didn't even realize it probably until I read your article.

SPEAKER_01 0:41

Welcome to the Valiant Force Podcast, where we help men overcome life's battles, show us better in the world, and become a valiant warrior for God. This is a place where we share practical credit that will equip you on life's journey to help you become the man God has called you to be.

SPEAKER_05 1:52

Specifically the subtitle, Trapped by the Skirt. And I had to know what he was talking about. So you are going to find out in this conversation. So here's my conversation with Dr. Stephen Finney. Dr. Finney, welcome back.

SPEAKER_00 2:08

Well, it is good to be back. I've been looking forward to this particular recording for some time. I think our topic is going to be more than interesting.

SPEAKER_05 2:27

Great title, but I really like it. Is it the subtitle or was that just a chapter in the book? Come out, hit and hide behind the scene.

SPEAKER_00 2:36

Yeah, it initially started, you know, with an article that uh I was going to do a series of articles leading up to Father's Day. And um it was strongly suggested that I turn it into a book. And so that's kind of what ignited the whole process.

SPEAKER_05 2:55

Yeah. So what was that first article called exactly?

SPEAKER_00 2:59

Uh I believe it was uh the title of the book, and that is Men Who Act Like Boys, and then the subtitle being Trapped Behind the Skirt.

SPEAKER_05 3:08

Yeah, that that's the one that grabbed me.

SPEAKER_00 3:11

Yeah. Well, you know, that was the kind of the vision of what I had for Father's Day for 2026, and so uh it just kind of took off from there because we got so many comments from guys and gals, and honestly, uh more women responded to the article than men did.

SPEAKER_05 3:36

Yeah. Kit, can you explain what that means, being trapped behind the skirt?

SPEAKER_00 3:42

The idea of being trapped behind the skirt is I have found as a writer and also being involved in men's ministries, that um we have just begun to come out of an era where uh the masculinity was taken away from the boys. And so the young men were not pursuing, you know, even in their play where they would have guns and act like they're in a war, and you know, all of this masculine stuff began to evaporate from training up boys in the way that they should go. Plus, the mothers were at work because there was a whole generation of fathers forsaking their homes, and so men were in and out of the home and almost used the home like it was some kind of uh home base, and it forced the women to take control over raising the children on her own. And mamas don't really know how to raise a young warrior.

SPEAKER_02 4:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:58

And so they um started spoiling the young men, and so the boys started hiding behind their mother's skirt, so to speak. I mean, it is a literal psychological problem that happened in the millennial generation.

SPEAKER_05 5:15

Yeah. So culturally, do you think we've just become you think men hide behind their skirts because it's more comfortable? It's it's easier to be more passive than aggressive. It's easier to hide than to lead.

SPEAKER_00 5:30

If you take history all the way back to the garden, you know, the question is, why didn't Adam step up?

SPEAKER_04 5:39

Right.

SPEAKER_00 5:40

I mean, seriously, I mean, for guys and gals that are listening right now, the problem was that when God came to rebuke Adam, he said, Why did you hearken to the voice of your wife? And that's the premise of the book. It's from the beginning men have had this tendency to hearken to the voice of women. When you read historically all the way through the Old Testament, there are endless warnings of men avoiding prostitutes. How easy it is to call them into their bosom, so to speak, and that goes back to the garden. So when I look at the situation that Adam was in, and Satan had to know that if I went through the skirt, I'm bound to get Adam. He must have understood the design of the of man and woman from God. And I I don't know this for sure, but I I have a strong um conclusive opinion on the fact that Adam was designed to um care for his wife almost like if not the same as caring for his flesh. And other points that I make uh not only within the book but through uh discipleship through the years is that Adam was designed to uh keep the weak part of his flesh under the protection of his strong arm, his right hand. And then Adam was actually created from from dirt. Right. Eve was not created, she was formed. Out of out of the rib of Adam. Right. So I think Satan saw that whole gig and he knew that he had to go through the the weakest part of man, even physiologically, the weakest part of a man is his ribcage under his arms. And that's you know, when I was being trained as a black belt, that's that's what they taught you is that if you want to put a guy down but you don't want to kill him, you know, you take out a couple ribs on his side. So it it's a weaker part of Adam's creation. And Eve was the representation of his weakness. So man, M-A-N is kind of obvious to us. Women originally, even in the Latin, it was spelled W-O-E-M-A-N. And W-O-E means weakness.

SPEAKER_05 8:48

Well, yeah. Oh, it means weakness, okay.

SPEAKER_00 8:50

Yeah, the weaker part of man. So I think Satan knew that. So since he couldn't go to Adam directly because Adam was fully functioning in perfection as as a man created by God. I mean, Satan really does freak out about God's authority. I I I know that that is true.

SPEAKER_04 9:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:13

He just f cannot handle the authority of the living God. And everything he does is trying to combat that. And how does he do it? He goes through creational elements to get to God's authority or to get uh men to defy God's authority. And he was very successful of that in his technique by going through woe to get to man.

SPEAKER_05 9:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:41

And it worked.

SPEAKER_05 9:42

Amen. I'm gonna ask you a question, it might be a little bit complicated, difficult. And you know, you as a man must you've been in ministry for a long time. And if you think of going back to the Bible, you think of s of Samson. What was his downfall as a woman? Why do you and I I kind of know the answer, part of it is because, you know, uh beauty, God wants us to be intimate with each with our wives, you know, because it it helps the earth be fruitful. Those who have children are like weapons in the hands of a warrior. Why do you think God designed men to be so captivated by the opposite sex? Because that's really where I see men fall the most is by seductive women. Even if they're not trying to be seduct seductive. It just happens in that every almost every man that I've talked to, and I say, you know, what's your your biggest trial? What do you deal with the most? And it's always lust. Like 90 95%. Why do you think God designed it that way? Just so we could overcome it, or you know, what's your your thoughts?

SPEAKER_00 10:58

Well, setting the issue of sexuality aside when you look at the biology of orgasms, two separate things happen. For men, they fall asleep. It relaxes them, it gives them a sense of accomplishment, it gives them a sense of I'm a man. And that's why masturbation is typically a bigger problem for men than it is for women. Because after a release of a just look at the pure biology of this, after a man releases those endorphins, his mind and body react immediately. So the body does go into uh a period of falling asleep. And if they're uh not in bed to fall asleep, it gives them this sense of accomplishment of being a man. I still got it. And they they uh literally have their masculinity reinforced. Women, on the other hand, are oftentimes known for waking up. And so that that just the biology of sexuality is really critical when we talk about this topic. So when men have these drawings, which which the Bible calls lust for for of the eye for women, there's more going on than just wanting to have sex with a woman. There there is a drive within the man to confirm the fact that he's still a man.

SPEAKER_04 12:53

Right.

SPEAKER_00 12:54

And that he's still a big guy on the block, he still has it, he's still, you know, in charge, so to speak. All the things that God put into the creation of man gets reinforced after an orgasm. Secondly, God gave uh orgasms to man and women uh for the purpose of being drawn to repopulate the earth. Right. And so without that drive, without that what Satan has converted to lust, uh he is able to put into place one of his main objectives, and that is population control. The less people that are on the earth, the stronger uh is the likelihood of Satan being able to control the world. The larger the masses, the less uh opportunity and victory he's gonna have in controlling the masses. So population control is a huge part of Satan gaining control during his antichrist period.

SPEAKER_05 14:12

Yeah. I I don't want to go down this path, but I do want to mention it quickly. You're talking about population control, the topic of abortion, like that shows right there that that's a uh scheme of the enemy, you know.

SPEAKER_00 14:28

Yeah. All all those issues, the vaccine, the uh abortion issue, the murder in the streets, you know, the list is very long on how to reduce population control. So there's a lot of humans that have caught on to this is a very easy way to reduce the population on the earth and not even realize that the enemy and his demonic forces are working actively to reduce the population, which will help the Antichrist get control over the masses. So men and their desires, and this whole thing about this passion and lust and being drawn under women and hiding behind their skirts, or hiding behind their pornography, or hiding behind their outward adultery, or whatever, is all a part of this scheme that Satan has to set the world up for what Revelation refers to as the Great Whore. And that's the biggest, most theological baseline doctrine we need to keep in play when we talk about men of this generation and the next couple generations are gonna hide behind a woman to do all of the work, all of the leadership, all of the stuff that he was called by God to do, because it's the enemy's approach of preparing humanity for what Revelation calls the great whore. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 16:16

Yeah, I was I was about to ask you about that, you know, because the end times, all through Revelations, it talks about the great whore. Yeah. And people people take that a little too literal sometimes, like it's an actual woman, but it's it's the spirit of femininity, in in my opinion.

SPEAKER_00 16:33

Well, it's not even Yeah, the church is referred to as a she.

SPEAKER_04 16:37

Right.

SPEAKER_00 16:38

Yeah, we are the bride of Christ. Now, how weird is that that you and I are sitting here today having a discussion, man to man, masculine to masculine, sword on sword, iron sharpening iron, right?

SPEAKER_04 16:52

Right.

SPEAKER_00 16:53

But see, when we die and we are called before Yeshua, and we are given new bodies, we're not there as men. Right. We're there as the bride of Christ.

unknown 17:07

Right.

SPEAKER_00 17:08

So I believe the enemy plays off that in order to uh promote his his gender confusion issue.

SPEAKER_05 17:16

Yeah, and uh and obviously he's been using the liberal media and things like that for you know many probably since the early 50s that this whole kind of cultural shift has has taken place. So just let's get a little practical for a second. How does a man come out from behind the skirt? Let's say a man, a boy has been trapped behind a skirt for many years, and I know you talk a lot about the brain and neuroscience and all that. So if you if you can I constantly go back to be you renewed by the transforming of your mind, which is in Christ Jesus. How does a man through brain chemistry, you know, go back to body biology and all that? How does a boy become a man? How does a boy step out from behind the skirt and become a man?

SPEAKER_00 18:10

Well, the first thing I think is kind of obvious, and that is that the man needs to recognize the fact that he does hide behind the skirt. And what that means is, is they default decision making to their wives, to their girlfriends, to their mother, to, you know, a female friend. And that's what hiding behind the skirt is. It's not the man stepping out saying, Here's what we need to do. The word of God reinforces this, and this is what we need to do. They are fearful of the rejection of the woman because they will not have their sexual desires fulfilled. That's the key. And so if if they're not married and they're in a relationship with a girlfriend, there's no difference from being married or not being married. They know that the consequences of taking leadership is that the gal innately, her rebellion innately is in her to rebel against Adam. And God said this to Eve. So that's why He put this consequence upon Eve, for your husband shall rule over you. You see, I take those key Hebrew statements and break them down and consider them the utmost of importance. So the woman's default is is going to be whether it's with husband, brother, uh, boyfriend, boss, the list goes on and on. Her default is going to be you can't tell me what to do. Right. And so the man's default is going to be, oh, it's okay. What okay, I'll take care of it the way you're suggesting. And this kind of this cowardly leadership style that defaults to the woman's skirt. When I got contacted by the reader group that uh reads through books and they make recommendations on where they're gonna place the book in on the market, the gal said to me, I expected the control group, the reader group, to be offended by your title. And she said, Honestly, I myself was questioning what this guy is saying. So see, the default of most women is what right men don't hide behind my skirt, they they you know, they don't want to admit, just like the guys don't want to admit that they're hiding behind the skirt.

SPEAKER_04 21:06

Correct, yep.

SPEAKER_00 21:07

So we have the same problem, the same challenge. So, number one, the guy's gotta admit, yep, that's what I do. Yeah. So once they acknowledge their sin of defaulting to the leadership of a woman, they have to have this relentless passion to re-establish who they are as men. So they usually contact someone like you or me. You know, just since the book came out a week ago, I've gotten all kinds of requests, you know, online of can you explain this to me? Can we do a zoom? Can you, you know, whatever. But I know where it's gonna go. As soon as you begin to tell a guy what to do and what not to do, the big test comes. Right. So now you have the woman who says, You can't tell me what to do. And you have the guy going, You can't tell me what to do.

unknown 22:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 22:11

I'm not that kind of guy. I'm not that guy.

unknown 22:14

Right.

SPEAKER_00 22:14

Well, if they don't have to be a good one, which is an identity problem.

SPEAKER_05 22:17

Right. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:19

And if they don't get past the first one, is that that is what I'm doing. Right. So when I am discipling someone, the admission of sin is critical. For sure. And if they would if they don't make an admission of I am a sinner, they're not going to get saved. If they don't admit that I'm a sinner, I'm going to and I'm going to go to hell unless I receive Jesus Christ, they're not going to advance. They're going to go to hell. So when you look at the 90-10 principle in the Old Testament, and Malachi clearly reveals to us the principles of tithing, 90-10. It's where we get it in our giving. That principle works in salvations. So when we look at how many people are really going to go to heaven, well, the Word of God tells us it's a few, the few faithful. It's probably sticking to that 10%. So 90% of the people that say, I want a counseling session with you, these guys are coming in acting like men. I want to fix this problem. I don't want to be addicted to pornography anymore. I don't want to not lead my wife anymore, or whatever, means nothing to me. What I'm waiting for is an admission. I am stuck. I am suffering from this thing that you're calling hiding behind the skirt. I've been addicted to pornography for for 14 years. I've, you know, left my family. I and I just simply let them throw it up. Right. And then I say, okay. Is all that sin? And it does awaken something in them. It's one thing to admit I've made some mistakes.

SPEAKER_04 24:25

Right.

SPEAKER_00 24:26

But it's another thing to say, I have sinned before the living God in the way he created me as a man.

SPEAKER_04 24:34

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 24:36

And if they're willing to do that, then we've gotten through stage one. Well, if you were in my office and you came in and you you made it through stage one, I probably am going to bring the session to a close with a homework assignment and say I need to have you list out every way you believe you send as a man. When you're done with that homework assignment, I want you to, in many cases, because a lot of the work is done online now, I want you to email me that list. Yeah. And then we'll talk about stage two. So what we need to do is the same thing God does. Adam, are you really sorry for what you did? Right. You know what I'm going to do, Adam, is I'm going to give you a homework assignment. Everything you touch is going to be by the sweat of your brow. Everything's going to be really hard. I want to see if you're really serious about what you have done, hearkening to the voice of your woman versus hearkening to the voice of your mentor, your father. You see?

SPEAKER_02 25:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:00

Adam was serious. In fact, that sin did not show up again until one of his sons killed one of his other sons. Right.

SPEAKER_02 26:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:11

You see? So when we go 9,776 years down the road, and you've got Noah, who is a descendant of Seth, the obedient one, that we have a righteous man who is willing to stay under the orders of his mentor, his father, his creator. So Noah, coming from this lineage, is able to take orders from God, say, I want you to build a boat, a really, really big boat.

SPEAKER_05 26:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:53

And he did it.

SPEAKER_05 26:55

Just imagine if Noah's wife was like, This is crazy. You should not be building this boat. You might imagine. Probably. Because it said a lot of people were making fun of it. It didn't say his family wasn't.

SPEAKER_03 27:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 27:08

But he he continued her. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:10

So yes, that is the that's the critical piece. You caught it. Is the guy going, well, whatever. My wife says, you know, I love her to death, but you know, God told me to build a big boat.

SPEAKER_05 27:24

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 27:24

Or his kids could have said, Dad, this is nuts.

SPEAKER_05 27:28

Yeah. Just just to give a go ahead. Oh, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 27:33

No, go ahead.

SPEAKER_05 27:34

I was just just to give a modern day example, you know, kind of related to my own story. Before I started this podcast, and when I started maturing in Christ, you know, which is really five years ago, even though I've been in church for 40 years. I told my wife that God told me to start a podcast. She's like, okay. You have not been consistent. She wasn't being demanding or, you know, stating an obvious. Yeah. She's like, you have not been consistent with anything in your life other than this fitness thing. You show me some consistency in your podcast. She's like, I'll support you. But you show me that you can be consistent with it and I'll believe that God told you to do it. And I started diving in. The first year I was not consistent. And she would just gently say, you know, what are you what are you doing with the podcast? Not not in a demanding, like, this is what you need to do kind of way. And I would say, well, you know, I just don't feel like I really I've done a few podcasts, I don't feel like I've really like done what I need to do. And she's like, just be consistent. And she just kept gently reminding me, and it wasn't like that, you know, where she's like, This is what you need to do. Nothing like that at all. Supportive wife. And there was probably, you know, especially as it got busier, there was a little bit of enmity between us. She's like, okay, you're spending a lot of time doing this. I don't want our really relationship to get affected. So I have these kind of conversations with my wife regularly. I regularly check in to make sure I'm not neglecting my wife while doing my ministry, which, by the way, just a few weeks ago, she's like, I understand this is your ministry now. First time we ever called my podcast a ministry between the both of us. So I feel like I'm stepping up as a man where many years. That's really why I wanted to have this podcast, because I hid behind the skirt for many years, and I didn't even realize it probably until I read your article. And I even had times during that where I was like, I would have other people in the in the church say, you know, you're not leading like you should, and then I would overcorrect. This is what we're gonna do. I'm the man, and you have to listen to what I say regardless, blah, blah, blah. How does a man not overcorrect? And if you could speak a little bit on, you know, and just just be honest, the conversations that my wife and I have had regarding the podcast. You know, do you think those were bright, godly conversations, or should they could have been changed a little differently? Or, you know, go ahead and speak.

SPEAKER_00 30:21

Yeah, a guy should overcorrect. Because when you're when you're driving a vessel, say a boat or a car, and you see something coming at you that could create harm, you do have the tendency to overcorrect because you are taking immediate, instant action. The key is bringing that overcorrection back on the road, the path that you are traveling. So I prefer guys that do overcorrect. The most difficult guys to work with are the passive aggressive men. These are men who you front them in discipleship or counseling, and they're nodding their head. And so that next phase in discipleship is what kinds of actions are they taking? And it's my job to evaluate those. So let's let's take what you just brought up. A guy comes in the following week, and I cannot tell you how many times I've had this. Comes in the following week and said, Well, I told her who's the man of this house. I said, Well, tell me the tell me the story. Well, you know, she said, I want that trash taken out today. You have procrastinated, and we gotta have it out there on the rug before three o'clock. And and I told her, I'll take that trash out when I am good and ready. And so I'm chuckling because I know what's going on over correction. And I look at that guy and I go, awesome. But you know what? You committed another sin. What? Yeah, you committed another sin. You told me to stand up and be the man of my house and you know, blah, blah, blah. And I said, Yeah. But I think the word makes it really, really clear that we're to live with our wives in an understanding way.

SPEAKER_05 32:41

Understanding way, yes.

SPEAKER_00 32:43

Could you tell me two words that are in that word understanding? Oh, well, let's see here. Um understand. I said, Yeah, that's it. It is your job to be a man, an immovable man, a man that is on a mission while you're under girding your wife, and she does not feel like you're attacking her. Exactly. You're holding her up and you're standing under her. But see, most men interpret that as hiding behind her skirt. So this is a normal thing, Mark, for guys that have not been trained up properly in understanding, undergirding the principles of God of a man is an immovable servant leader. And a servant leader is undergirding those he is responsible for. I have discussions with some very, very powerful people. And and God has trained me. I'm 70 turning, you know, seventy-two here uh quickly, and I have learned something about leadership over all these years. Anyone who knows me knows that I'm pretty immovable about what I believe. And earlier on in my my growth in Christ, I was like a bull in a china shop. But today I I am pretty much at peace with the reality that an immovable leader, when I talk to some of these high-powered individuals, they already know I'm immovable, or they wouldn't have picked me to disciple them. Right. They want a strong leader who is not going to kowtow to their fame. And so the key becomes can I invest in them with this servant attitude of, oh, I'm immovable. I'm not changing a single doctrine for you. But I'm here to hold you up until you get it. So we as servant leaders handle men and women with that same principle because that is what Yeshua demonstrated for us men. I don't think you and I, Mark, would have convinced Christ to change his mind on anything. No. But you know what? He would handle you and I as a gentle servant who is immovable. And of course, we do have stories where he was pretty rude to the Pharisees.

SPEAKER_02 35:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:52

There's a couple times he was dealing with Peter. I thought it was bordering on rude. But that's the strength coming through where a servant leader knows there is a time when you look at this leader, and let's say I am dealing with a political leader. I look at this political leader and I say, Sir, and respecting authority because this person actually does have authority over me as a national leader. And I say, Sir, I would like permission to speak to you directly. And of course they want that.

SPEAKER_02 36:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:39

And so I say, to be honest, I think that particular thing that you're doing is creating the following havoc in our nation. And if I get well, what do you mean? I will share the eternal wisdom that I have on that particular topic. That shouldn't be any different than my wife. Right. Or my daughters. Or someone in my office to look at this guy and respect him and say, you know, just picking any name out of the hat. Well, John Boy, could could I just be perfectly frank with you about what I'm seeing? Well, what's he gonna do? Say no. Right. So when they say yes, I I tell them exactly what I'm seeing. Now here's the key, Mark. We need to integrate our own testimony into discipling other men. Or they think we're high and mighty. Correct. Yep. So men have the tendency to put their mentors on a pedestal first, then they knock the pedestal out from underneath them by insults, passive aggressive behavior, whatever. And the leader falls. They want to see what that leader is going to do. Right. That's when they make the choice of trusting or not trusting another man. So the hiding behind the skirt reinforces one of the statistics that's going on and has gone on since the 1970s. And that is the lion's share of men when they go get professional counseling, they go to women. They do not go to men. Now, back in the 60s and 70s, and maybe even in the early 80s, going to your male pastor or a male discipler in your church was pretty normal. That is not the norm anymore.

SPEAKER_04 38:58

Right.

SPEAKER_00 38:59

I had to turn down two podcasts appeals yesterday from gals who I don't know if they saw the title or how they uh got wind of it, but they wanted to discuss this whole issue and my wrongness in viewing that men should take the predominant role in church leadership. And they their bio said, you know, female pastor. And so it's a big problem today. For sure. Yeah. Even when men want to get help, they're going to women. Because men who truly function the way God designed them to function, they they will function like I just depicted for you a few moments ago. They're immovable, but they're servants. They know how to hold this guy up. They know how to challenge him. So we have a big um opportunity, but yet a big challenge on our hands, and that is to get men through their third session or the third stage. Many will not survive it. They won't. But that fifth stage is showing the guy that any kind of sexual interaction with your wife that is not out of giving overflow of God's love to her is sin. Sexuality is not to meet needs. Sexuality is to express love.

SPEAKER_05 40:58

Correct.

SPEAKER_00 40:59

And when they and when they sit there and look at you, your deer in the headlights kind of look, and they go, What did you just say? Men are not to have their needs met. They are to use sexuality to express the love of God. It's a giving, not a fulfillment.

SPEAKER_05 41:24

Yeah, I was thinking of that earlier when you're talking about, you know, how to respond to people and not to do it in this kind of aggressive way. Let everything that you do be done in love. That that goes back to sexuality just as much.

SPEAKER_00 41:39

Yeah, and and what's that verse that says, anything that is not done by faith is dead. Yeah, well, it's sin.

SPEAKER_02 41:48

Yeah.

unknown 41:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:49

Whatever is done that is not done in faith is sin. And so a guy needs to learn it as a servant leader, servant husband, servant father.

SPEAKER_04 41:59

Right.

SPEAKER_00 42:00

When they get that, then it's not about having my needs fulfilled. And by the way, even speaking from a biological point of view, even speaking from a neurological point of view, I haven't met a guy yet that exploded on the sidewalk because he w was not relieving himself sexually.

unknown 42:22

Right.

SPEAKER_00 42:23

You know?

SPEAKER_02 42:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:24

I mean, what about Yeshua, who could not be with a woman his entire life?

SPEAKER_05 42:30

Right.

SPEAKER_00 42:32

What about any other single guy that God calls to be single like Paul?

SPEAKER_04 42:36

Right.

SPEAKER_00 42:37

Did he explode on a sidewalk somewhere because his needs weren't being met?

SPEAKER_02 42:42

No.

SPEAKER_00 42:44

So that those passions are converted to gestures of servant leadership to love others.

SPEAKER_02 42:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:52

That's what it is. And when the guy gets that in stage five of discipleship, uh I have one of those very few that make it through being mentored by a strong, true servant discipler.

SPEAKER_05 43:09

Amen. Yeah. We're starting to run out of time a little bit for just to kind of wrap this up. Can you summarize the book and what you want men to get out of it and where they can find the book?

SPEAKER_00 43:25

We I will give you the link, Mark, to the book itself. And then I'm going to give you another link that anyone who is listening to your podcast, I want to give them an ebook version for free for listening to the podcast. So when they contact me and say I would like this free ebook, I'm going to send that to them without charge. But I will provide uh the link for them to get to the ebook version and the paperback version to You and you can place those in if you want to. But the overview is really simple, is bringing this down to the simplicity, is most of the godly men today are gone. I know there is a revival taking place again in the church and even in general cultural society of men standing up again. So I say to those men that when you overcorrect, it it's a good thing, not a bad thing, but to get back in line with servant leadership as quick as you can. And if that takes discipleship materials, not only are we willing to provide those for you, but there's a ton of quality discipleship materials out there for men to be men. And then the book goes into the ideas and biblical understanding of what really is masculinity. How do you release Yeshua's masculinity from within you? And then we go from there into without the Holy Spirit living inside your mortal body, it's impossible to release the masculinity of the greatest servant leader of all, Yeshua. So the whole book is really about releasing the masculine servant leader within you. Because when we truly become born again, we are receiving the life of Christ within us. So it becomes not an issue of acting like Jesus or Yeshua, it's releasing him. And that's really what the book is about.

SPEAKER_05 45:49

Awesome. Dr. Finney, this was a fantastic conversation. I hope men were truly listening and letting it change their hearts and their minds. I look forward to having another conversation with you. I'm I I have a feeling you're going to be a multiple returning guest.

SPEAKER_00 46:06

So well, you know, each one of the chapters in the book would make a great podcast. Well, Mark, thank you. You know how much I love you and and I'm dedicated to the ministry that God has called you to. I mean, what you are doing is not only making a difference, I am overwhelmed with joy to watch you come into your manhood in a way that only God Himself understands the level of joy that it brings the kingdom of God. So thank you.

SPEAKER_05 46:44

Thank you. Thank you very much, Dr. Finney. I love you too. All right. We'll see you soon. God bless you.

SPEAKER_00 46:52

Next time.

SPEAKER_05 46:55

One of the reasons I enjoy conversations like this is because they make me think. They force me to examine my assumptions. They make me search the scriptures, pray, and to seek wisdom from God and ask myself some diffic difficult questions. As I listened to Dr. Finney talk about men stepping into responsibility, one question kept coming back to me. Where in my life am I avoiding responsibility that God has already given me? Not next year, not when I'm ready, not when I feel more confident, but now. Because becoming the man that God wants us to be isn't about having everything right. It isn't about winning all the arguments. It's about taking the next step of obedience. It's about leading when it's uncomfortable. It's about being consistent when nobody is watching. It's about taking ownerships of our mistakes instead of making excuses for them. It's about continuing to grow even when growth challenges things we've always believed. I hope this conversation encouraged you, and I want to ask you to take an honest look at yourself. Ask where God may be calling you to grow. As always, test everything with the scripture. Make sure you're connected to God, pray to God, and ask Him to lead you and guide you. Stay strong, stay valiant, keep forging your path, and be blessed.