He Kept Kicking Open Doors God Was Trying To Close | Jason Ward

What happens when the path you're pursuing isn't the path God intended for you?

In this episode of The Valiant Forge, Mark sits down with author, photographer, entrepreneur, and speaker Jason Ward to discuss purpose, calling, God's providence, and the surprising ways He guides our lives—even when we're fighting against His direction.

Raised in the Appalachian mountains of eastern Kentucky, Jason grew up in a family with generations of coal miners behind him. But God had a different plan.

Jason shares powerful stories about pursuing success on his own terms, walking through a prodigal season, forcing doors open that God was trying to close, meeting his future wife in an unexpected way, and eventually discovering the calling God had been preparing him for all along.

If you've ever wondered whether you're walking in God's purpose, felt stuck in life, questioned your calling, or struggled to trust God's direction, this conversation is for you.

In this episode:

• Growing up in a coal mining family in eastern Kentucky
• The art contest that changed the course of Jason's life
• Walking through a prodigal season
• Chasing success instead of God's calling
• Forcing open doors God was trying to close
• The ice cream shop encounter that changed everything
• Getting fired and starting over
• Discovering photography through God's providence
• The thoroughbred racehorse analogy
• Finding your "gold thread" and recognizing God's hand throughout your life

Scripture Discussed:

Proverbs 16:9
"A man's heart deviseth his way: but the Lord directeth his steps."

Proverbs 19:21
"Many are the plans in a person's heart, but it is the Lord's purpose that prevails."

Connect with Jason Ward:

Welcome | Jason Ward

Jason Ward Author | Facebook

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Keep forging your faith, pursuing Christ, and becoming the man God created you to be.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

I sort of planned that and said, This is what I'm going to do, and I did not wait for God. I sort of just blazed in my own trail and said, This is what I'm going to do. So again, I must stress that I went prodigal in more ways than one. There's sort of a dark side to all of these passions that God puts on our heart, too, and I let myself slip into some of that sin habit of women. And it's like God was politely closing that door. He was still there, very much there. I know that he was there the entire time. Even though I had turned my back on him, he never turned his back on me. I've got to stress that. He was there through all. But I put a bit through that door. I kicked that door smooth open. That has been my livelihood. And God brought me back around the corner to photography through a back door. Even though I kicked the door that he closed open, he opened another back door later. And I just think it's the most beautiful thing in my life.

SPEAKER_00 1:08

Welcome to the Valiant Force Podcast, where we help men overcome life's battles, show up better in the world, and become a valiant warrior for God. This is a place where we share practical strategies that will equip you on life's journey to help you become the man God has called you. Are you ready to overcome your doubt and fulfill your purpose just by giving it? If so, let's go.

SPEAKER_03 1:34

Welcome to the Volume Forge podcast, where Christian men come to forge strength and purpose in Christ. Before we jump into today's episode, I want to mention a minor change that you see happening. I normally post solo episodes on Mondays, called Valiant Mondays, and on Thursdays I'll post an interview episode. I'm switching it up this week because this particular Thursday is going to be the 100th episode of the Valiant Forge, and I wanted to do something a little differently. It's uh it's quite a milestone to hit a hundred episodes, something that I didn't think would happen in the beginning, so you'll find out more about that on Thursday, so stay tuned. Have you ever looked back on your life and realized that some of the things you fought the hardest weren't actually what God had planned for you? Maybe you've kicked open doors that God was trying to close. Maybe you ignored opportunities because they didn't look like the path you expected to take. Or maybe you're wondering right now if you are walking in the purpose that God has planned for you. My guest today is Jason Mord. Jason grew up in the Appalachian Mountains of eastern Kentucky, coming from a family with a generation of coal miners behind him, but God had a different path in mind for Jason. In this conversation, Jason shares his journey through success, failure, prodigal seasons, closed doors, unexpected opportunities, and the surprising way that God led him into his calling that was meant for him all along. We talk about purpose, identity, God's providence, and how to recognize when God might be redirecting your life. So whether you're feeling stuck, searching for direction, or simply trying to understand what God is trying to do in your life right now, this conversation is for you. Here's my conversation with Jason Moore. Jason, welcome to the podcast.

SPEAKER_01 3:28

Hey Mark, it's an honor to be here and I look forward to our conversation.

SPEAKER_03 3:33

Me too. I love the fact that uh you're from eastern Kentucky. My my parents are also from Eastern Kentucky.

SPEAKER_01 3:41

Mm-hmm. Yeah, and your guests will definitely uh hear that throughout this interview. The Appalachian is still alive and well.

SPEAKER_03 3:53

Very very much alive and well. My my my brother and sister moved down to Kentucky uh probably when they were in their 30s and 40s. So we we were all born in Chicago. My parents are from Kentucky. We still had a slight accent just from hearing my parents talk. My brother and sister seem to have developed the accent. It's not near as strong as yours, but they definit they definitely have lost the Chicago and picked up the Kentucky.

SPEAKER_01 4:24

Good for them.

SPEAKER_03 4:26

Yeah. So you you you told me when we met before that you come from a long line of coal miners.

SPEAKER_01 4:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 4:35

And you were the the first to not be a coal miner in your family.

SPEAKER_01 4:40

That's right. I'm the first man in over a hundred years on either side of my family not to be a coal miner. And my dad, from what he tells me, when I was born, he told me two things. One is I was not allowed to play football ever. And number two, I was not allowed to be a coal miner. And I did not play football and I did not mine coal. So those held true.

SPEAKER_03 5:10

So one of the questions I was gonna ask, because I recently talked about generational curses, and I'm not saying in any way that being a coal miner is a curse. I do remember back in like the because my my grandfather on my mom's side actually died in the coal mines. It's it was an unsafe job. Is it still unsafe?

SPEAKER_01 5:32

Yes. In fact, uh there's millions of ways you can get hurt in coal mining. And my dad was a surface miner, but he always was going to these safety trainings. And one lesson that he learned is that there's so many rules, right? You have steel-tote boots, and you have the reflective vest, and you have metatarsal guards, and you have the hard hats, and you have the safety glasses, and all of the things. But he he was told that every single one of those rules is written in blood because it's so dangerous. I I was he snuck me up to the job a few times because I was just fascinated. I mean, dad was my hero, and any opportunity that I had to go watch him put off a shot that put off these huge cast shots with ammonium nitrate where they would blast huge sections of the mountain down and it would just roll like a wave of rock. It was pretty cool. And as the story goes, I got to drive a couple of those huge rock trucks. They would sneak me up there, and and when the the main uh superintendent that my dad was friends with, he would let me drive these trucks. I don't know why they would do that, but they did. And the story goes that one time a big Euclid 198 rock truck, there was a green horn that was driving that truck. And the boss had come up there and parked on this turnout and got out of his truck and went to an excavator to talk to somebody. Well, this greenhorn comes up the hill, he turns around the rock truck, gets his load, goes down the hill and leaves. He doesn't realize until he comes back that he's smashed the boss's truck until it's less than a foot thick and didn't even know that he hit it. So just the fact that those trucks can run over a full-size Tacoma and crush it like a pancake, and the driver would not even know that he that he hit anything, I would say it's dangerous. Yeah, I would say, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:34

So since you're I I love the fact that you said your dad is your hero. Because I may maybe it's this Kentucky thing, but my dad is absolutely my hero as well. Yeah. So um since you said that your dad didn't want you to be a coal miner or a football player, what what was your path, or did you have a path, or how did that get laid out for you?

SPEAKER_01 7:58

Wow, that's a really profound question because I knew early on that my parents wanted a different life for me. They wanted me to go to college, they wanted me to leave the Appalachian Hills if I so chose and do something that was a totally different career path. And so, right away, I started looking at avenues to get out of the Appalachian Mountains and go to college. And a few things God gave me started to sort of work for me. I played the piano from age two. I had a little knock around toy piano and I picked out songs and played by ear until the point where they decided to buy me a full-size piano on my sixth birthday, and I continued playing. And so all through school, when we would do plays and things like that, I was never up on the stage with the rest of the kids because I was down behind the scenes playing the piano for the entire school to sing. But at the same time, I was heavily involved with drawing. I had an uncle who was an amazing artist and he inspired me. I wanted to be like him. And I decided from an early age that if he could draw and that was cool, then I need to be able to do that. And so I started drawing, and that sort of came easy. And so I had these two disciplines, music and art, that I thrived in, and I had to ultimately choose one of those paths. And for me, art won. One of my classmates chose music, and he's done very, very well for himself. And all of your audience will know who this is. So your audience actually knows two people that graduated from Johnson Central High School, myself and Chris Stableton. I would think that definitely knows Chris.

SPEAKER_03 9:50

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 9:51

The music side's been very good.

SPEAKER_03 9:52

So did you know him?

SPEAKER_01 9:53

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:54

Did you know him personally?

SPEAKER_01 9:55

Oh yeah. Oh, yeah, my family knows his family, and he has a very talented family, actually. His older brother is a good singer, and as well as his younger sister is a good singer. So very talented family. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:10

I heard I heard an amaz I don't want to sidetrack too much, but I heard I heard an amazing story about him that when he sings in concert, he puts his wife in front of him, not directly in front of him, but she's in his eyesight on this near the stage, and he sings directly to her when he's singing those love songs. That's how he's able to project that kind of passion because it's straight from his heart to his wife. Yeah. Sorry.

SPEAKER_01 10:38

Sorry, it was absolutely no surprise to any of us that he made it because he was so talented as a young man.

SPEAKER_03 10:48

So I want to go back to you said you said God just kind of put this in you. I think that's how you said it when you were talking about playing music. Where did where did God come in the picture for you?

SPEAKER_01 11:02

I was raised in church, so God was always there. And I felt like I could hear the Holy Spirit speaking to me. I later learned that's really what I was hearing. Before I ever became a Christian, before I was ever saved, I sort of got little nudges and inklings and ideas that I feel like the Holy Spirit was there all along throughout my life. And I answered the call of the Holy Spirit at church camp when I was about 14 years old. Okay. And I looked to my art as really the catalyst to get me out of that area and to get me a scholarship or have some sort of career. And I got a clue that that might be the direction that I should go when in seventh grade I entered a big art contest that my seventh grade science teacher told me about. And I'm I'm now able to trace my entire career all the way back to that one sheet of paper that was handed to me in seventh grade. And as a boy, I was fascinated with rockets, airplanes, Air Force, F-16s, anything with a jet engine, anything that would go fast, anything that would fly high, that was what where my fascination was. And so this was an application to go to space camp on a scholarship. And my parents couldn't afford to send me to space camp. So I looked at what do I have to do to go to this camp? And you could either write an essay at that particular time. I was not keen on writing, although that would later change. But you could paint a picture. And I thought, wow, this is it. I can do this. I can paint a picture about space travel and I can enter it into this contest. But here's the funny thing is I kind of made an ultimatum here because I was at a crossroads. I had entered a bunch of art contests. I hadn't won any of them. I poured my heart and soul into those contests and never came out on top. I would get like a uh second place ribbon sometimes, but I never would win. Now, this I made an ultimatum with God. I said, look, I'm going to give this everything I've got. But if I don't win this contest and go to space camp, I'll never draw another picture again. I'll focus on music or something, but I'm not drawing. And by the grace of God, I did win that contest. I got to go to space camp as a seventh grader. Now I didn't become an Air Force pilot. I didn't become an astronaut, but that was sort of a validating moment in my life where I was sort of told by a group of judges that I had what it takes. And that really set my art career on a rocket, no pun intended. But it it gave me that confidence that yes, I can pursue this. And so from that moment on in seventh grade, all the way through high school, I was on fire for art. I sort of let music go into the background. I still played at church conventions and at weddings reluctantly. Oh my gosh, my mom made me do that. I did not want to play piano at weddings, okay? I did not sign up for that. I was signed up for that. So I did a little bit of piano playing for weddings and things while I was in high school and hated every one of them. But I was on fire for art. And that concentrated daily outpouring of that craft netted me a portfolio that I was able to shop around and ended up getting a full scholarship in art. And that was my ticket out of the Appalachian coal mines.

SPEAKER_03 14:54

So I a couple of questions, because I I I feel a little bit differently about some things, but maybe you know you were 17 or 14, right? 14 did you feel kind of nervous giving God an ultimatum like that?

SPEAKER_01 15:13

No, I just had an open conversation with him. I've done that a couple of times in my life. I've just I've had it. I'm exhausted. I don't know if this is really what you want me to do. But if this is, then show me the way and we'll go for it.

SPEAKER_03 15:28

Okay. Okay. So it wasn't quite it wasn't quite an ultimatum. I hear ultimatum, I think do this or else. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 15:36

Yeah, right. Yeah, like you can really do that with God. It was more like it was an ultimatum to myself.

SPEAKER_03 15:44

Yeah. Yeah. Another thing that you said, you were on fire for art, which I totally hundred percent support being on fire for your passion, but where was your relationship with God? You're a teenager, you're learning, you're coming up. So where was your relationship with God while you were pursuing the art like that?

SPEAKER_01 16:03

Yeah, I was actually heavily involved with my youth group. I was the leader of our little youth group, and I did a lot of things for the the little vacation Bible school. I did magic shows and anything creatively that I could possibly do. And I still supported him by playing piano and things during that season of life. But I did go prodigal when I got out of that nurturing family sheltering unit of being in home. And I got out, I went to a very public school. I went from a tiny town of 3,500 people in eastern Kentucky to the University of Louisville, and it was culture shock, it was freedom shock, and it was really easy to slip into my own plans because I felt a little measure of success. And as a creative, I think this is sort of the dark side of creativity, is that we want control. As a creative, I want to draw something my way. I don't really care what people are saying critic critically or from a suggestion standpoint. I'm still going to draw this picture my way because it's my vision. And so I kind of got a vision for what I wanted my career to be. And I don't know that I really consulted God that much on this. And here's why I believe this happened. Going around college campus, especially me with this Appalachian accent, I had I felt like one of the foreign exchange students, like I was from another country when I got to Louisville, Kentucky. They would all ask, Where are you from? And I would say, Kentucky. What about you? And they're like, You're not from my Kentucky, you're from some other Kentucky. But uh when you meet people, the first question they ask you is, What's your major? And I had to say, art. And immediately the look that I got from those people was of concern and sort of like shock. Like, really? Disturbing artists on yeah, on art. What are you going to fall back on if this art thing doesn't work out? And so I felt this uncomfortable pressure, like, oh no, this is not working out. How can I win the attention of a young woman who wants a man who has projections of success when I'm an art major? And so I found advertising. And what that offered me was a tangible art-related field where I wouldn't have to change my major and lose my scholarship, but I could go for something that would have a salary, a cubicle, and a huge office building and command some respect. So even though I don't know that I actually don't think that was what God had planned for me, I sort of planned that and said, this is what I'm going to do. And I did not wait for God. I sort of just blazed in my own trail and said, This is what I'm going to do. In hindsight, I should have taken some more electives and held off on declaring that major, and I probably would have found photography. Now, God was gracious enough to give me a backdoor into photography later on in my career. I kind of arrived late to the party there. That's my real calling. But I blazed through into this advertising career.

SPEAKER_03 19:47

Yeah, I want to I want to highlight that for a second. I'm glad I kind of led you down this path because I I quote this verse all the time a man plans his way, but the Lord directs his steps. And a lot of us, a lot of us have those almost all of us have those prodigal seasons. I got saved when I was 14, but I also drifted and strayed and had my prodigal times. Most men have. I probably I know for sure because I I was prophesied over when I was 16 years old that I was going to be a preacher. Well, I didn't become a preacher. I became a machinist because I stayed away from trying to step up in church. Now God has me on a podcast, and now I'm sharing lessons every week. Because the Lord directed my steps.

SPEAKER_01 20:43

That's right.

SPEAKER_03 20:44

I love that you said go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 20:46

Yeah. I wrote down a verse that's very similar to what you just said. It's Proverbs 1921. Many are the plans in a person's heart, but it's the Lord's purpose that prevails. So that kind of came true for you too later in life.

SPEAKER_03 21:01

Yeah, yeah. And I I love that you said that. Because the reason the reason I highlight stories like that is because a lot of men that listen to this podcast, they're they the purpose of this podcast is to get men who feel like they're stuck to stop being unstuck and start relying on God and start paying more attention to how the Holy Spirit is leading them. So yeah, I I love that. So after you you got into the advertising, how did God lead you from there?

SPEAKER_01 21:33

So again, I must stress that I went prodigal in more ways than one. I had remained pure all the way through probably the second or third year of college and avoided a lot of the temptations. I was not a big partier. I didn't have any appetite for that at all. The alcohol, none of it. But I did have a thing for beauty. And I feel like as an artist, I Wanted to write beautiful music. I wanted to draw beautiful photos. And I was attracted to the beauty. And there's sort of a dark side to all of these passions that God puts on her heart too. And I let myself slip into some of that sin habit of women. And so as long as I was on that path, I didn't feel worthy to continue the conversation with God. I'm like, well, I'm already sort of living outside of God's plan for my life, you know. Uh right now in this season, I'm having a good time. I'm experiencing a little bit of the world, you know, all the newness of that, the excitement of that, the euphoria of it, and just that pursuit of a woman. I got addicted to that. And so I found about this grad school that I wanted to go to, and it was very competitive. It was an advertising graduate program where I could apply to be an art director, and they only took 20 in that art direction concentration. It was super competitive. And I had interned at an ad agency in Louisville and worked with a creative director there who gave me a lot of practice and he honed my skills and gave me, propped me up and nurtured me in that advertising environment so that I could try to put a portfolio together for this thing. And I did not consult God on this. I blazed forward and I submitted that application for Ad Center and I was turned away. It was like God was politely closing that door. He was still there, very much there. I know that he was there the entire time. Even though I had turned my back on him, he never turned his back on me. I've got to stress that. He was there through all of my prodigal season. And I feel like he was trying to politely close that door because that wasn't right for me. But I put a boot through that door, I kicked that door smooth open and said, absolutely not. When I got my rejection letter, I called that school every day and I sent more letters and more portfolio work. And I don't know if they had someone cancel and left an opening, or they just got so sick of hearing from me call every day that they had pity on me and let me into this program. So I went to VCU Brand Center, which was at that time called the Ad Center, for two years and I got a master's degree in mass communication with a concentration in art direction against God's will. Yeah. He will take his hands off that steering wheel and let you walk through some of those doors that he tried to close for you. He will.

SPEAKER_03 24:46

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:48

And he let me go.

SPEAKER_03 24:49

What I have found, because I've I've had many of those times where I've busted through the doors that he tried to close. He'll take those times and he teaches you something through them. And then you have those lessons for later in life that maybe you can be teaching someone else. You know? Yeah. So yeah. That's awesome. I I remember you talking something about an ice cream story. Can you tell us the ice cream story? Is that the next part of the story?

SPEAKER_01 25:18

Yes, that's the story. Is that the next part? Yeah. That's the next part. I was on my summer internship between first and second year of grad school in Texas. I was sent to the Richards Group in Dallas, Texas. And that's the ad agency that worked on Motel 6 and Home Depot and Corona and Chick-fil-A, just for reference. Wonderful ad agency experience, and it was exhilarating to be there. And some friends of a friend that I had run track with in college at the University of Louisville, he was from Texas, and he hooked me up with his best friends who had an apartment that I could sublet from in Arlington. So I stayed with those guys in Arlington that summer. And Will Lunsford, one of the guys I lived with, took me all over Fort Worth to show me around and he wanted me to see Texas. And in Fort Worth, one night, almost 25 years ago, as we record this podcast, it was June of 2001. We go across the street, Will wanted ice cream. We were going to go get some beers, I think, at Billy Miners or something on the corner of Houston Street and downtown Sundance Square in Fort Worth. And as we're we're, I'm my hands literally on the door to go in this place, and Will sees the ice cream shop and he's like, no, no, let's go over here and get ice cream first. Like, Will, come on, man. Ice cream really? Yeah. So we crossed the street, we go in Marble Slab. I'd never heard of the place. It was an ice cream shop where they would mix your chosen flavor of ice cream with almonds or cookie dough or chocolate chips or whatever you wanted in this big marble slab, and they would chop it all up and then put it back in the comb for you. And he wanted me to experience this. Cross the street, open the door, the air conditioning is broken in this place. It's like 101 degrees outside. It's probably 104 inside because those ice cream coolers are trying their best to keep up, you know, and there's water like dripping off the front of them onto the floor. And I told Will, man, I don't think any ice cream's worth this place. This weight. It's too hot. So I start to leave. Well, these two girls came in and they cut line in front of me, actually. And I was trapped behind the door and these two girls. But then finally somebody wedged the door back closed and it gave me an out, and I thought about leaving. But one of those girls was pretty cute. So I stopped and I started talking to her, and I realized quickly she was way too young for me. But there was something about her that was innocent, wholesome, and just exactly what I needed. And God had planted her there for me. And that thus ended that chapter of the prodigal Jason. Because once I met her, I realized I don't deserve to talk to this girl, but I want to. And God, for whatever reason, allowed her to see in me something better than what I was. And I was able to talk to her and start dating her. And I formed a relationship with her. And I made another one of those ultimatums with God, like with myself. I said, look, I don't deserve this girl. If she doesn't want to date me, I completely understand that's fine. But if she'll go out with me again after I tell her a little bit about my past, then I won't break up with her. I'll stay with her. If that's what God wants, if that's what you want, if you're bringing this girl into my life, I will not break up with her. And she would go out with me on a second date and then a third date. And I stayed with her. We had a long-distance relationship. This is back during the era of the phone cards that you would prepay and buy these 500-minute and 1,000-minute pack cards. And we kept that long-distance relationship, but God used her to bring me back up out of that prodigal moment, and I started to see him again working in my life. And so I went to Texas as fast as I could as soon as I got out of grad school. And I married her the next year.

SPEAKER_03 29:34

That's awesome. So how did you see God start working in your life?

SPEAKER_01 29:40

Okay. This is the backdoor moment. I crashed and burned at my first ad agency job. It was a disaster, a total nightmare. I thought I wanted the career in the high-rise office building with the cubicle, and I saw how people would decorate them all with little Star Wars figurines around their cubicle, and they all looked like the coolest guys ever. But when I got there, I realized this was devoid of creativity. It was a way to crush your creativity. It was regimented, it was boring, it was not exciting. I got beaten down. Every time I had a really amazing idea for an ad campaign, it would get killed. And my I had a post-it note on a filing cabinet that said approved, and another one over here that said got killed. And my got killed pile of papers and comps was like this thick. And I might have had two or three sheets of approved material on the approved pile. And I lasted about eight and a half months of this. And the toxic environment of that ad agency, I'm not saying all ad agencies are this way, but this one certainly was a toxic environment. And as a Christian, trying to find my way back to God, I felt so out of place in this agency. And so in 2004, God worked a hat trick. And I was fired from that agency because of circumstances that are absolutely unbelievable. My boss was a female and she tried to take me home with her about two months into my ad agency job. This was, like I said, so toxic. She was an alcoholic, probably a drug addict. And it was humiliating to be at this agency, to say the least. But when that incident happened, from then on I could do nothing right in her eyes. Like she wanted me to quit because it was embarrassing for her to see me. When she tried to take me home with her and it didn't work out like she wanted, it was super awkward. And I couldn't even like see her in that agency when she wasn't trying to demean me and cut me down and make me look like an idiot. And all of my work, I believe, was killed just so that it would try to drive me out of that place. And finally, when I wouldn't cave, she fired me and said that I wasn't pulling my weight or that I wasn't a team player. And so I started interning at another ad agency because nobody else was hiring. And a creative director was trying to start a new ad agency. And he had one assignment that he could bring me on as a freelancer. And so I worked, I made a little bit of money. I was married by this point and had just bought a house with Kelsey in Arlington. We stayed there where we had uh met in Fort Worth. I was familiar with Arlington, so we settled there. And I was just trying to make ends meet. So I started teaching adjunct classes because I had a master's degree. I could walk into any school in that Metroplex and pretty much be hired as an adjunct instructor. And that's what I did to make ends meet. And this creative director told me that if I could win an account, any any account, he would be more likely to be able to hire me. And so I went out and started trying to find an account anywhere. And I went to this brick and mortar retailer and told him I wanted to help him with their advertising. And I showed some sample work and they were blown away and they hired me and they said, Yeah, let's uh let's work with your agency. I took this book of business to the creative director and he told me that he was no longer going to start an ad agency, that he was taking a job as a creative director at an established agency. He said, You take that account and you service it. And so that was number one time when I was completely outside of my comfort zone. I'm a junior art director. I just got fired for my first agency gig. I just won an account for another agency that I'm interning with, and then they turn it away. They turn away the business that I brought them. So I had to start servicing an account with no creative director at all. I had to go from being a fired, unapproved art director with no tangible work to being a creative director over an account. And that's how I started my own little advertising business in 2004. Wow. And so God worked that. That was the first hat trick that he worked for me. And then here's the the really amazing back door. I was teaching graphic design at Dallas Baptist University. And we had found a really good church we were going to, and I was really bringing my heart and everything back to God and trying to be open to him, even though I was really spinning my wheels trying to start this advertising business. And one day the chair of the art department called and said, Hey, I know you're teaching this graphic design class, but we really need you to teach this photography class that we have. The instructor is pregnant and she's on a high-risk pregnancy, and the doctor's putting her on bed rest. So she's not able to teach this class. And we need someone to teach it. Would you be willing to teach this photo class? It's dark room photography. And I said, with all my heart, no, I'm not ready to teach dark room photography. I took one as an elective, one class in undergrad, and I haven't been in a dark room since then. There's no way I'm ready to teach that class. And she said, Well, that's too bad because we already put 22 students in your class and you start on Monday. And so it was, it was so completely out of my comfort zone that I remember walking into that classroom and looking at this sea of 22 glowing young faces looking to me for instruction and thinking, I am an imposter. I have no business being at the front of this classroom. I need to be in that chair with them. I'm not, I don't belong here. And God used that to light a fire under me for photography, but in an urgent fashion. Because when you teach something, you have to know it forwards, backwards, inside, and out. So I did a deep dive on photography, and it was unbelievable that at that exact same moment I started earning pieces of business with my little fledgling ad agency. And you know what they all needed? Photography. Photography. They needed photography. And how beautiful is it that God brought me back to that photography love that I didn't even know I had just in time for me to use it, not only in the teaching capacity, but to feed the family. Every dime that I've made since 2005 has virtually been because I was behind a camera. Whether that's in the classroom or shooting professionally, that has been my livelihood. And God brought me back around the horn to photography through a back door. Even though I kicked the door that he closed open, he opened another back door later. And I just think it's the most beautiful thing in my life.

SPEAKER_03 37:34

That's amazing. I I love I love your story. And as you're talking about photography, I'm looking at the pictures flashing on the screen behind you, and I'm assuming those are all yours. They're they're all beautiful from what I can see from this angle.

SPEAKER_01 37:48

Yeah. Yeah. I have a little screensaver that pops up, you know, using that Ken Burns effect on my Mac. And I just dump a random assortment of photos in there. And although I've done many advertising projects over the last 20 years, the ones where I truly shine are when it's just purely photography. Because the art side came easy for me. Advertising never came easy for me. And I wonder how many men are out there that are doing something hard because they can do it, but it's probably not the lane where they should be running.

SPEAKER_03 38:29

Exactly. Yeah, I was I was about to ask you, how does a man find, you know, if he's kicked open the wrong doors that God was trying to close, and God keeps opening back doors, but they still keep missing it. Because I have a 40-year journey where I kept missing doors. God sent me on a mission trip. God put me in uh a youth group and was was told to lead the youth. And I was even asked to to speak a message once to the youth. It was five minutes because I didn't want to talk to people. There were so many times when God gave me a backdoor that I just ignored those backdoors. So how does a man realize that you know these these life-changing moments are God's providence and not missed opportunities?

SPEAKER_01 39:27

Yeah. Well, if I may, I'd love to share an analogy that I came up with that's very Kentuckian. And it's the analogy of the thoroughbred racehorse. And a lot of men are out there working like a thoroughbred horse that's hooked to a plow. Now, it's not that the horse can't pull the plow, of course it can. It's a strong horse. But if that horse is never led to the racetrack, then how will it know that it was actually born to run? And likewise, on the contrary side of that, if you take a Clydesdale and you plop it down in a racetrack, it's going to be equally miserable because as those thoroughbred horses are running circles around it, it's going to feel completely out of place. And it would be much more suited to pull something heavy, and it can really show off God's purpose for it, its job as well in that capacity. So I feel that most men that are out there, we have what happened to me. We see our insignificance and we feel exposed, and we have that fig leaf that we're trying to cover our exposure, and we want to look successful. We want to sound successful. We like the idea of being the thoroughbred horse. We like the sound of these careers like CPA, engineer, physician. And I felt those same insecurities when other people would tell me they were pre-law, pre-med, biology majors, they were going into engineering or something, and I'm here with an art major. And so I caved to that pressure, like so many of us do. We want the status, we want the business card with the letters after our name in a certain fashion so that we feel like we're successful. But we go away from God's plan. And I keep going back to this verse where Jesus said, I'm the vine and you're the branches. Apart from me, you can do nothing. You can spend a lifetime trying to build an empire for yourself based on worldly standards and worldly success and anything that other people can see that you're doing and call you successful. You can post the photos on social media showing your success. But if it's apart from God's plan for your life, then really you've accomplished nothing. And I had a midlife crisis moment where all of that time that I had been trying to manufacture this picture of success of the creative director, of the ad agency executive, and tried to grow my ad agency in my lane, the way I wanted things to show my success. It's true. I was able to get a home built and going for my family. I was able to purchase vehicles and have insurance and food on the table and nice clothes and all of those things. But there was something missing. And if you're working really, really hard and you're checking all the social boxes, but you just don't feel successful, it may be that you're just a few degrees off of being connected to that vine and your skills of your hands and the work, your handiwork, and what God intended you to do. You could just be a few degrees off. And if you can realign what God intended for you to do with your work, then things will start to move, things will start to jive, and you'll start feeling more successful, even if you have to take a pay cut. I know that sounds so counterintuitive to what our culture tells us. All the books that people read are about entrepreneurial pursuits and change these things with your mindset to achieve success. And if you follow these steps, then you'll arrive at this peak level of success. And what I realized is just like you have to basically die to yourself, pick up your cross daily. If you surrender your life, those remember, those who try to save their life will lose it. But those who lose their life for my sake will find it. And that happened to me. In my midlife crisis. And what I realized is after 20 years of me trying to manufacture my success, the question you have to ask yourself is what do I really have to show for it? Houses, cars, boats, second properties, beach homes, what have you got? Because if you're not putting out something that serves God and other people, like that Vine story, you've really accomplished nothing. And my hard drive that's sitting back behind me that's full of TV commercials, years worth, billboards, catalogs, magazine ads, commercial photography, radio spots, videos, YouTube videos, all of that stuff. It's all back there on a hard drive. And I collapsed in the road on my wife in tears when I realized, hun, I feel like I'm going the wrong direction. God's been very good to me. He's blessed me even in my total ignoring him. If he could just reveal to me what he wants me to do, I will go and I will do that. But I'm spinning my wheels here. And I realized if something happened to me, that hard drive would probably end up in the landfill. Because who wants a bunch of tired, obsolete ads that don't serve anybody anymore? They were paid to run, you were paid to see them, and now they're dead. And that's where I felt like my career was. It was dead. And so I went out and I took a pause. I went hiking and I took my camera. I wanted to go spend a morning with God. And he led me to the Wichita Mountains Wildlife Refuge. It's a beautiful place in western Oklahoma. And I felt like the Holy Spirit was calling me to get up early and get myself to the top of Mount Scott so that I could clear my head, spend some time with God, and just try to realign and see what he wants me to do for the next season of my life. I scrambled to the top of that hill because I got there. And again, my plan, we all have plans. We all have these plans, right? And I did a whole thing with a Google map and I planned the whole route, how I was going to drive up to the top of Mount Scott, and I was going to get there far before sunrise and just listen to a Sunday sermon and just be with God and watch this sunrise. Well, I get there and the gate is locked. And I'm sitting there in my truck with this, it's still dark outside. I got my map out. I'm like, God, I didn't expect this. I was trying to spend some time with you on top of Mount Scott. And we were going to do this thing together and explore my next chapter of life together. And he goes, Oh, yeah, yeah. You're still going to the top of Mount Scott. You're just not going to drive to the top of Mount Scott. And I thought, oh my goodness, there's no way I can walk all the way around that road. It's more than a mile long. He said, You're a Kentucky boy. You can get to the top of that hill. Just go straight up it. And I'm looking at it. Because you said it's a mile long.

SPEAKER_03 47:14

I was like, that's not a big deal.

SPEAKER_01 47:15

Well, it was straight up more.

SPEAKER_03 47:18

Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_01 47:19

It's just Yeah, but it was probably more like two miles, but it was it was a big long circle, and I knew the sun was going to come up, and I wanted to be there for sunrise. So I started boulder hopping up this wash, and I could only take two things with me. I took my coffee, which is very important, and my camera. And I got scrambled up to the top of that mountain, and I got there just before the sun popped up. And God painted the most beautiful sunrise I believe I've ever seen. And I didn't know what I was even doing. I just took my camera and propped it up on my knee and started shooting a bunch of photos in like a Gatling gun fashion. And the message that I got there is look, Jason, you spent 20 years trying to make things beautiful, make something from nothing, polish things up and make them look better than they are so that you can sell them to people. But real beauty is what I've created. And all you got to do is just show up. I've done the lighting, the gaffing, the art direction, the blocking, the layout, the timing, everything in my picture is perfection. And all you got to do is show up with your camera and take what I've done and capture it. And that became my first landscape photo. And that started me on a journey of deep connection with God where I could not get enough of this. I started shooting landscape photos. And it became my church, if that makes sense, just being in the wild with God and getting up stupid early and hiking to these dangerous places and trying to meet God there in the morning because I knew he was going to put on some shows. And that landscape photography then wove itself into more open doors. I can't explain it. It's only the grace of God. But doing those landscape photos led me to Broken Bow, Oklahoma. It led me to real estate opportunities to invest in real estate out there. Lots of great memories with my kids and my family out there. And a lot of success in building and selling short-term rental properties out in Brokenbow, all because I took that little pause to realign my heart and my work with God. And uh that's what caused me to want to write that book.

SPEAKER_03 49:57

Yeah. Yeah. I I want to ask you about the book in a second, but because you mentioned, you know, being out in the wild. And I know when we we talked before, you talked about John Eldridge. Yeah. Had you had you read the book before you went up there? Yeah. Yeah. And is that kind of what led you to reconnecting out in nature?

SPEAKER_01 50:20

That was a little part of it. In 2012, I attended a little satellite men's boot camp that was based on the Wilded Heart boot camp series. And I felt like I got a piece of my masculine heart back. I don't feel our culture has been very kind to men over the last 35 years or so. We've been emasculated. We've been told that we're toxic masculinity. I mean, they took the fat out of our food in the 80s and stuff and told us to eat cardboard. I mean, everything that makes a man come alive has sort of been stolen from us. You know? Sure. And this was such a refreshing message for me that, hey, masculinity is alive and well if you embrace it. And it's it's the way you should be. Like there's nothing wrong with being masculine. Amen.

SPEAKER_03 51:15

Yep. I love that. So so tell tell me about the book, The Golden Thread. What is the Golden Thread?

SPEAKER_01 51:22

So I did not see this book coming. I pretty much considered my first book would be a compilation of my landscape photos because I'm now getting a pretty good portfolio collection of those going. And at some point in my career, I probably still will do a coffee table book that has some little anecdotes about how I got that photo and how God showed up for me and crazy things happened for me to be able to get some of these shots. And some of them I can't even shoot anymore because the world changes. You know, trees die and go away in bad cataclysmic storms, and you can never get that picture again. But I was great, I was graced with the opportunity to shoot some of those. But I was at one of my short-term rental properties out on this mountaintop in beautiful Broken Bow, Oklahoma. It was a luxury mountaintop resort that I had the opportunity to build. And when it was finished, I took the family up there and we spent the week before we opened it up for guests. And it's a brand new, I mean, everything still smelled like polyurethane in this thing. It was brand spanking new. Latex paint was still hanging in the air. And I got up really early and again, got my coffee, went out to spend some time with God. And as I'm looking out over that scene, I can see like 40 miles or something from this house. It's just, it was stunning. And I had one of those moments where I was reflecting and I asked God, how did this coal mining town little boy that wiggled his way out of Appalachia end up doing all of these things that I've done and arrive here and have such opportunities to build such a place and be involved with this? How did this happen? And I have an ongoing conversation with the Holy Spirit, and I didn't hear an audible voice or anything, but it was like the Holy Spirit was talking to me and saying, if you really want to know how you got here, I'll show you. And all of those twists and turns where I went prodigal, I started unfolding it backwards, and I could see a little gold thread, even in my times of ignoring God, he still was weaving this little thread, and I could trace every single event with precision back to that one sheet of paper that I got in seventh grade. And as I play forward on that, I started to get frightened. I started to almost get a panic feeling because I realized, do you know that the odds are so long for all of those things to happen that would line up perfectly in order with precision timing to get me exactly where I am and where I was standing, that if even one of those was plucked away, if God wasn't there the entire time, nothing like that would have worked out for me. All of those things, I would have been in a different place. I would have met a different woman. I might have a different career altogether. And even in the midst of my prodigal kicking through doors, going my own way, he still wove that little gold thread to give me the opportunities to be there. And I felt an obligation to show God's providence and his grace through my story. And I just felt called to write about it. It took me two years, also, I might add that. From that moment, it was two years later before I finally was obedient in writing about it. And as I started to unravel that thread, God revealed more to me that we all have a gold thread. And that's God's grace and his plan for our lives. Like Jeremiah 29, 11. That's the plan that he has for us. That's that gold thread. But if he has that plan, then certainly there must be an adversary. If there's this gold thread that's weaving a tapestry of opportunities for us and prosperity and fulfillment and what God really intends for us, then there's this adversary that's a black thread that's threatening to choke it out, hold it back, wrap it up, and hide it. And I saw so many black threads in my life, some that I willingly grasp onto, right? Remember the beauty, that season of me grasping at these black threads, and I got totally ensnared and entangled, and only by God's grace did he unwind that mess. And I started realizing that we have opportunities to grab onto black threads, but then sometimes black threads just ensnare us without anything that we've done. It could be a lost job, it could be having a toxic boss like I got stuck with for a time. You could have a bad car wreck, you can have a bad medical diagnosis, someone close to you could pass away. Life gets hard down here. We all have a target on our backs. And every single day the black threads are new. It's like when I was in eastern Kentucky as a kid, I would blaze a trail and build a treehouse at the top of the hill. If I got up the next morning and tried to walk on that trail, guess what? I was covered in spider webs anew every morning. I could clear that trail, and every single morning there would be new spider webs that would wrap around my face. And our adversary works just like that. Whatever you did good yesterday doesn't matter because he's got new challenges for you today.

SPEAKER_03 57:21

Awesome. I love it. So how do how do we how do we find those gold thread? How do we I'm assuming you go go to this in the book. How does a man know the difference in a black thread and a gold thread, or if there are any other color threads? Because I know we we definitely have an adversary, but sometimes our adversary is ourselves. Yes. Just from wrong choices that we make. Yeah. So how do we know?

SPEAKER_01 57:50

Yeah. I outline those in my book as best as I can. Of course, it's not an exhaustive list, but I go through and I line out some of these addictive behaviors and destructive things that we hang on to. We can harbor anger, we can grab onto those threads and we can hold on to those. There can even be generational black threads. We can be born into a family that's wrapped up in black threads way for years before we're even alive. We can have periods that go on for decades through and generations through a family of abuse, alcoholism, financial problems, and animosity and anger and rage and all these different things, we can be born into a season and a chapter of that. And you might have to be the one in your family that cuts those threads away and plots the course for something new. But one thing that I was shown in the exercise of writing this book is God has the sovereign ability to take the darkest of black threads and he can weave those back into gold. And he will. He will use the black threads in your life to galvanize you and make you stronger and more resilient for a chapter that you don't even see coming yet. So if you feel ensnared with black threads, yes, it's a difficult place to be. But I heard the greatest story about Paul when he had a shipwreck on Malta. And we all have wrecks in our lives. And there's no other definition than it was a wreck. It was a shipwreck. But even today, Malta, 80% of the population of Malta is still Christian. And they actually have a holiday celebrating Paul's very shipwreck on that island so many centuries after that happened. And so I just look to that for a little bit of uh encouragement that whatever wreck you found yourself in, God can weave that into a gold thread, another gold thread season of your life. Now you ask, how do people know their gold thread? And it's a really fun exercise. But you you may have to actually go back a long way and give yourself permission and give God permission to remind you of what your gold thread was all along. Because it could have been so many years back when you turned loose of your gold thread, you've forgotten. Your heart has forgotten what you love. You've gotten so wrapped up with life that you forgot what you love and what God put on your heart.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:34

Amen. I love it. Before before we before we end, there's a question I ask every man that comes on the podcast. David in the Cape of Adulum, 1 Samuel 22, right after David slew Goliath, Saul, you know, he was jealous of David because he knew David was going to be the next king. David went to the cave of Adulum, and in 1 Samuel 22 it says the men of the kingdom were disgruntled, disheartened, and in debt or discontented. They came to David in that cave, and they ended up becoming David's mighty men. If you read the Book of Chronicles, you hear some amazing stories that some of these men who were originally disgrunted, disheartened, and discouraged did. So modern day, you got a group of men in front of you, you have the opportunity to speak into their lives. What would you say to them?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:29

Thank you for that question, and that's a really good one. But for you men out there who are feeling disheartened, take heart. You have a purpose. God has a profound plan for your life. And if you have this little nudge, this little voice that's talking to you saying, you know, you should do this, but it terrifies you. If it feels like you have butterflies when you think about it, it takes you completely outside of your comfort zone. Pay very close attention to that because that's God's currency. He will not let you be comfortable. He calls you up out of that comfort, that security blanket. Security blankets are just a way to hold a man back. When God's working, you're uncomfortable. And so embrace the butterflies and step up out of your comfort zone. Not when you're feeling more prepared, not when you feel more ready, not when you have a few more feathers in your cap. Now. Now's the time to act on that.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:39

Awesome. I love it. So where can people find your book? And are you on any, are you on social media? Do you have anything else going?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:48

Yes. Thanks for that question, too. They can find me at jasondward.com. And I've got a freebie for you guys. If you go to jasondward.com and you scroll down the homepage, you'll see a big badge that says the gold thread challenge. And I use AI web app to put this thing together and I trained the app a specific way. It's not one of those cheesy career aptitude tests where you answer the questions and it tells you, hey, you could be an engineer, you could be an architect, or you it's not like that. This one is 12 really hard questions. These are tough. But if you answer those 12 questions, you will be blown away at what it will reveal and how accurate it is. It blew me away and my son. I had him take it and it blew him away. Because what it does is it finds where your spiritual gifting overlap with your skills and give you ideas about what you could do in terms of your true calling. And again, on that same website, you can find my social media, you can find my YouTube channel, and you can find links to the book, which is available on Amazon, both in paperback as well as hardcover. And it's actually on audible if you can stand another several hours of this Appalachian accent, because I did read it myself.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:14

Well, I will be getting it on Audible myself because I love the voice.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:18

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:19

Kentucky was never really my home, but I kind of treat it like home.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:23

I have a little saying I always say is let your work speak for itself and for everything else, say it in your native accent.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:33

Amen. Got any final words before we end?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:38

Only to just try to be an encouragement to those men out there to follow God as closely as you can. We're not perfect, but God can use us even in our imperfection. The fact that I have a book is not me telegraphing that I've arrived at some higher spiritual level. I still mess up and I'm still that wretched man, just like Paul described. I don't feel like I'm even worthy to put a book out because I'm just a normal guy, but God can use us even in our brokenness and well before we're ready.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:13

Amen. Awesome, Jason. Thank you very much for coming on.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:17

Thank you so much for having me. It's been awesome. All right.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:20

God bless you. One of the biggest takeaways from this episode for me is that God's plans doesn't always look like our plans. Jason spent years pursuing one path only to discover that God had a different plan for him all along. We chase careers, goals, relationships, and things that seem right to us for the time. Sometimes God blesses those pursuits, and sometimes he closes doors. But even when we don't understand it in the moment, his purpose is still at work. Maybe you're in a season where a door has closed. Maybe you're frustrated. Maybe you're frustrated because things aren't going according to plan. Or maybe God keeps putting opportunities in front of you that don't look like what you expected. My encouragement to you is this stay faithful, stay available, keep seeking God's direction. The closed door may not be the end of the story. It may simply be leading you to the right one. Before I let you go, don't miss Thursday's episode. Episode 100 is coming up, and I've been thinking a lot about what I wanted to say for this particular episode. And since Father's Day is right around the corner, I'm going to be talking about fathers and the impact they have on our lives and what we can learn from our relationship with our Heavenly Father. Whether your experience with your earthly father was good or bad, or somewhere in between, there are lessons we've learned from everything that we experience in life. I think it's going to be a great conversation that you'll get some insight out of. If this episode encouraged you, share it with another brother. If you're not already subscribed, please subscribe, and I will see you on Thursday. Stay strong, stay valiant, keep forging your path, and be blessed.