From Foster Care to Command: NYPD Leadership, War, and Reinvention | Michael J. Walker

On this episode of Corey’s Corner, retired NYPD executive Corey Pegues sits down with retired NYPD Lieutenant Michael J. Walker, a man whose journey defines resilience, leadership, and reinvention.

Born in Brooklyn and raised in the foster care system of Southeast Queens, Michael’s path was anything but easy. From overcoming early challenges in school to serving in the United States Army Reserve and rising through the ranks of the NYPD, his story is one of discipline, determination, and purpose.

Michael shares his experiences working midnight patrol in the 114th Precinct, going undercover in Organized Crime, and serving in Internal Affairs, before ultimately becoming a Lieutenant and trusted right-hand man to Corey Pegues in the 67th Precinct.

We also dive into:

• The realities of policing as a Black officer rising through the ranks
• Leadership, loyalty, and navigating internal challenges within law enforcement
• His deployment to Iraq during Operation Iraqi Freedom and how war shaped his leadership
• His transition from law enforcement to becoming a SAG-AFTRA actor

This is more than a conversation—it’s a powerful reflection on service, identity, and what it means to evolve beyond the badge.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

What's a cat, let it die, yeah. I forget the best celebration death instead of condemning it.

SPEAKER_04 0:06

Corey, talking to a brother. What's the cap. Pull up a seat. You're now in Corey's Corner, where right conversations matter. I'm your host, Corey Pegiz, and I always keep it right, not real. Today on Corey's Corner, we're joined by someone I didn't just work with, but who I trusted. Michael J. Walker was born in Brooklyn and raised in the foster care system of Southeast Queens. Experiences that forged his resilience and discipline early in life. After navigating challenges in school, he found his footing, graduating from Springfield High School, and committing himself to a life of service. Michael served our city and country with distinction as a member of the United States Army Reserve, as a company commander during Operation Iraqi Freedom, and through a 20-year career with the NYPD, rising from Midnight Patrol Officer at the 114 Precinct to Lieutenant with assignments in organized crime, turn of affairs, and multiple PSA commands in the police service area. When I commanded the 6-7 Precinct, Michael was my right-hand man, a lieutenant I relied on for leadership, judgment, and integrity. After retiring honorably, he pursued a lifelong dream of acting and now brings his lived experience to the screen as a sag after actor. This is a conversation about trust, leadership, and reinvention. Mike, welcome to Corey's Corner, brother. Good to be here, brother. Amen. Long journey. Long journey. We ain't gonna tell the people you postponed before, but you here now. I made it. I made it. We made it before we start. This episode of Corey's Corner is brought to you by Vaquila. Vaquila is the world's first premium blend of vodka and tequila infused into one smooth, refreshing drink. Whether you're celebrating success or unwinding after a long week, choose the spirit that's we find in the game. Visit Vaquila.net to learn more. And remember, always drink responsibly. Shout out to Corrupt Mob MC, a brotherhood built on loyalty, respect, and community. More than just a motorcycle club. Corrupt Mob represents unity, strength, and service both on and off the road. Respect the mob. Major shout out to Storytotell Productions. Every great podcast needs a powerhouse behind the scenes. And for Corey's Corner, the powerhouse is Story to Tell Productions. If you're looking to produce a podcast, please reach out to storytotell.productions L C at gmail.com. Let's get into it. You were born in Brooklyn and raised in the foster care system in Southeast Queens. How did that early experience shape your sense of discipline, independence, and purpose?

SPEAKER_03 3:09

Well, that's that's a good question. I first want to say is that there are many reasons why children in New York City particular go into the foster care system.

SPEAKER_06 3:18

Right.

SPEAKER_03 3:18

And for my reason, it wasn't because my biological parents didn't want me or didn't love me. They just couldn't take care of me, my brother, and my sister.

SPEAKER_01 3:26

Right.

SPEAKER_03 3:27

Because they had some challenges, physical challenges and other things, that they uh just couldn't deal with. Um so the decision was made, I have to back up a little bit also, because I am a 60s baby, which you are too, so you can definitely relate. Don't be telling my age. You can definitely relate. But during that time, interracial marriages and relationships were very taboo. So I am the product biologically of an interracial marriage. My father's African-American, born and raised in the South, Bessema, Alabama, and my mother's Jewish woman. So ethnically, I'm African-American and I'm Jewish via my mother maternal line. So it was tough for them back. I can't I can't even really imagine what they were going through. And my grandmother, my maternal grandmother, told me uh uh one time that my grandfather, my biological mother grandfather, didn't even talk to them before I was born, which is crazy. So um, so those those were the times. You know, me and my siblings, we went into foster care, and uh thank God we were with a wonderful family. Um out here and uh they were from uh North Carolina. They had already raised uh their their children, my my siblings. I don't like using the word foster siblings, but they're my sip, my siblings, and uh, but uh the oldest was 20 years older, is 20 years older than me.

SPEAKER_01 4:50

Right.

SPEAKER_03 4:50

So they were kind of like, you know, um, they're kind of like, you know, definitely role models. And uh but uh my my foster parents were from the south, uh grew up in the Great Depression, you know, the struggles with the Great Migration uh came came up here, settled in Brooklyn. Uh eventually they bought a brownstone in Brooklyn, which they kept for many years before they sold, and um bought a house here in Southeast Queens when Southeast Queens was still kind of predominantly mixed.

SPEAKER_01 5:17

Right.

SPEAKER_03 5:18

You know, white. But eventually, you know, uh it was white fight. And um yeah, we came, we lived with them. So when we first came, I would think I was about four years old, three or four, uh my brother and I, my sister wasn't born just yet. Um or maybe she was born, she didn't come with me, I'm not really too sure. So we lived with them for about a year or so, a year and a half till I was about five and a half, and then my biological parents they got to act together and the city felt, okay, you can go back to them.

SPEAKER_01 5:47

Right.

SPEAKER_03 5:48

And we stayed with them for about a year and a half till I was about seven. But unfortunately, uh my biological mother got very sick. My father, he just couldn't handle it. Uh we wind up having a breakdown, and we were placed in a group home. And then eventually uh we were placed back with our original foster parents. Right. And that's where I was raised. You know, they raised us uh until we were grown.

SPEAKER_04 6:14

You've been open about disciplinary challenges in school. Looking back now, what do you think those moments were really about?

SPEAKER_03 6:22

Disciplinary challenges in school? Yes.

SPEAKER_04 6:24

Um Was it because you was, you know, foster care, or you just was wilding out, or you was just trying to be in the streets?

SPEAKER_03 6:31

I would say back then teachers, teachers were really, particularly in public school, um in elementary, the teachers were really able to discipline you. I gotta beat him. When I say discipline, they were able, they they they could lay hands on you.

SPEAKER_04 6:46

Yes, I gotta beat him.

SPEAKER_03 6:47

And you better not go home and say that my teacher later hit, because then you're gonna get it again.

SPEAKER_04 6:53

You're gonna get it again.

SPEAKER_03 6:54

So those those were the times back then, and I think that um that definitely kind of shaped uh, you know, kind of imprinted it, you know, going, you know, up until the teenage years. But you know, once you hit your teenage years, you know. Right.

SPEAKER_04 7:06

Can you imagine, you know, I know your grandson DeMarco, he's in college now, flourishing. Can you imagine DeMarco calling you he was in like second grade saying the teacher beat him? These kids are spoiled today, right?

SPEAKER_03 7:21

Yeah, I mean, first of all, the teacher's going to jail. They know that.

SPEAKER_04 7:24

But um It's just different.

SPEAKER_03 7:27

Well, you know, the kids, they'll call the cops on them.

SPEAKER_04 7:29

Yeah. If you raise your voice. They calling cops on their parents. On their own. Never mind, the teacher, right? Now, graduating from Springfield Gardens High School after setbacks took resilience. What lesson from that period still guides you today?

SPEAKER_03 7:43

Well, when I was in, when we were in high school, you know, we were in high school during the golden age of the crack, yes. Crack was keen. And fortunately, that that that that that epidemic transformed our neighborhoods. And I think we're still dealing with, I know we're in fact we're still dealing with the after effects to this day.

SPEAKER_04 8:02

I got this dope picture that I'm putting up right now with you in high school in the B-Boy stance, like you and your crew.

SPEAKER_03 8:10

So, so, so not not to go into too much detail, but you can kind of, you know, um formulate your opinion, what I was up to from from that picture. But um what I can say from that experience, you know, at the end of the day, you know, my foster parents raised me to know right and wrong. Grew up in the uh going to Sunday school. Um, so I knew anything, any bad decision I made is because I wanted to. Not because I had to.

SPEAKER_06 8:38

Right.

SPEAKER_03 8:39

And um, and I think at that particular time, look, it's it's hard to compete. I did during that time, you know, you're talking you know, you know, uh young young men, teenagers, you know, walking around with$1,500 in their pocket, driving brand new cars, you know. I mean, I had I mean I had a I had an Audi at 18, 19 years old. Yeah, it was tough. Yeah, you know, so um you you you're a product of your environment, and not to take away that we weren't smart because we were smart. Right. We did well in school, but the law of the streets and not just really understanding there's a bigger world out there other than uh your neighborhood um really um influenced the choices we made. Unfortunately, some of us made some bad choices.

SPEAKER_04 9:24

Right. It's it's amazing because whenever I think about that golden era of the 80s when we were teenagers, always look how this pendulum has swung. You remember when we was out there, like it was a golden era of hip-hop too, just coming up, run DMC after the water. Well, we we knew hip hop before there was hip-hop. Of course. But if you really think back, all the rappers, they actually wanted to be drug dealers because they wasn't really making no money. And now, today, all these drug dealers want to be rappers because these guys are making money.

SPEAKER_03 9:58

It's no money in drug dealing anymore. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 10:00

It's no money in drug dealing. Not a dime, but we we seen that change. We lived that change. It's amazing. After graduating out of foster care, you chose the service, Army Reserve, Postal Service, and eventually the NYPD. What pulled you toward public service?

SPEAKER_03 10:18

Well, to keep it 100, is that aging out of foster care, I was on my own.

SPEAKER_04 10:23

Right.

SPEAKER_03 10:24

I I had no choice. I had, you know, it's like either, you know, sink or swim.

SPEAKER_04 10:28

And what's the age out of foster care?

SPEAKER_03 10:32

18 18 if you were and if you're going to college, 21.

SPEAKER_04 10:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 10:36

So, and I have to really acknowledge uh there was a wonderful lady, her name was Cecilia Dixon, she's passed away a long time, you know, she passed away at cancer. I remember vividly when I was still in high school, she brought the application for the post office to take the post office test. Uh-huh. And I was like, okay, cool. And I was familiar with being a civil servant because my two my two uh sisters, four six sisters, they were both teachers.

SPEAKER_01 11:01

Right.

SPEAKER_03 11:01

So I kind of understand, I knew I knew the whole game with that, that it was stability and whatnot, you know. Um, so I said, okay, cool. Um, but as far as being a cop, I didn't really care about being a cop. I just wanted to be take a test for the city. But I I looked at cops and I didn't really think cops did anything. Uh-huh. Because I never saw them doing anything. I mean, I'm gonna be honest with you.

SPEAKER_04 11:23

They didn't.

SPEAKER_03 11:23

When we were I mean, I know you just stayed the F away from them. Right. That's all I know. You didn't you would you didn't get in their face, right? You didn't conversate with them. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 11:33

Not like today, not like today.

SPEAKER_03 11:35

They came up to you, you know, you you know, I mean, because common sense is like you got a man, a woman, but more importantly, a white man with a gun. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 11:42

I'm I'm good. Like, I was telling these young boys, like, the cops even rolled up and was like, Yup, we just, there's no com. We wasn't even saying hi to them. Just like, I'm I'm out of here. We're not talking to them at all. I don't want no smoke with them.

SPEAKER_03 11:59

But I'm gonna be honest with you, I think because of my experience being in the foster care system, understanding the social inequalities with young people, poverty, there was just something inside that said, you know, I could probably do that because I look back and I have to go back to when I was with my biological parents. There's a lot of things that happened while we went to foster care, but the end state, and I remember this vividly, is when myself, my sister, and my brother, uh brother were in Brooklyn. We're in a home. My mother's parents had bought my my mother and father a house in Brooklyn on Winthle Street. And uh it's a nice house, it's still there. And um, but we were living in a basement. The basement was dark, we had no food, anything like, you know, we just we just fucked up. Um and um I remember the police coming down, down the stairs and basically rescuing us, taking us away. Eventually we wound up back in foster care. So that always stuck in my mind, and always kind of like, you know, that's something that I can do. Right. You know, I can make a difference and help somebody out.

SPEAKER_04 13:02

What I didn't know doing research uh for this interview, you was called to the NYPD, but you were three months short. Did that delay feel like a setback at the time, or was it motivation?

SPEAKER_03 13:14

It felt like a it felt like a setback, but I was working for the post office. Oh, so you so I had so I had a job, I was making money.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

Right.

SPEAKER_03 13:22

I I would decide, but looking back, I think that was a Godsend because if I would have gotten high at 20, me and you would not be talking. Because I was a wild, I was still a wild kid back then. You know what I'm saying? Walking around with a gun, 21 jump streak. So that three-year difference definitely made, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:40

Yeah, nice. So what the audience don't know is that me and Mike actually went through the police academy together. January 13th, 1992, is when we went to the police academy. Six months later, we both were assigned to the 114 precinct in the story of Queens. You worked the midnights, I worked for the 12s. What I mostly remember about the 114, besides uh having a bunch of fun, it was only 28 black cops. There was 400 cops in the precinct.

SPEAKER_03 14:14

Wow, it was that many?

SPEAKER_04 14:14

It was 28. Okay. And we were spread out on different tours. It was 28 of us. And we've been friends ever since that. How did you balance Midnight Patrol in the 114 precinct while earning your degree at John Jay?

SPEAKER_03 14:30

I can really say I I attribute that to the military.

SPEAKER_04 14:34

Multitasking.

SPEAKER_03 14:35

Yeah, military. I mean, because I joined the military in 1988, and it really brought out who I am today. And I think we all have these things in us that we don't know we have or capable of unless you're really pushed. You know, and being in the military really pushed the boundaries for me that what I'm what I'm capable of of and you know, taught me discipline, resilience, teamwork.

SPEAKER_04 15:00

Right.

SPEAKER_03 15:01

You know, uh, and that um it's gonna be okay. You're not gonna die if you try something hard or you come out of your comfort zone.

SPEAKER_04 15:10

Great point. So I always say this, I'm gonna ask you this. America, you know, in Israel, at 18, you gotta go into the military. I think it's a two-year commitment, two or three years. Male and female. Male and female. Don't you think they should do that in America? Oh I think they should do it. Um You know how you you you just kicked out at 18. You didn't kick him out, he went to college. I'm about I'm about to kick one out. He needs some discipline. They need discipline. These young kids need discipline. Now, you know, if you do a two-year commitment, you get six months academy, eight months for your training for AIT, right? And you probably do a year, year and a half in the military. It's really not that long.

SPEAKER_03 15:51

I I think I think that window has passed because the young people today, because of social media and how impressionable they are, and they form these opinions at such an early age because of social media. I think that a draft would be more harmful now because you'll have a group that are mad that they were drafted, that don't really want to be there. And and our military is professional military, very smart young men and women. I mean, tech tech savvy, the thinkers. Yes. So I I think having a volunteer army is where we need to stay at. But yes, young people definitely need discipline, but that you know, that just goes back to home, parenting. You know what I'm saying? So um now my grandson, you know, fortunately, you know, I I I raised him, I helped raise him. Um his dad was a uh fortunately passed away. Uh he was a victim of senseless gun violence, which we all are too familiar with. But I kind of was old school with him the way I was raised with my foster parents.

SPEAKER_06 16:57

Right.

SPEAKER_03 16:58

And I think that kind of helped him along. Understanding uh accountability, responsibility. Unlike myself growing up, yeah, I got I got I got the switch. Go get the switch.

SPEAKER_04 17:09

Go pick your own switch. Hell man, don't be saying that shit on Corridor's corner. Don't you get locked up?

SPEAKER_03 17:15

No, I'm just saying, I'm just saying back in the day, that's how, but nowadays, no, you can't, you know, that's not gonna work with these kids, you know. And and you gotta lead by example.

SPEAKER_04 17:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:23

Because if you don't, they're gonna throw it back in you. Well, why do I gotta do that? And you don't do that.

SPEAKER_04 17:27

Yeah, it's it's just it's just crazy. Now you worked undercover um organized crime and later in internal affairs. I definitely remember when you went to organized crime. How did those experiences shape your understanding of integrity within policing? The NYP didn't shape my integrity because I already had that. I'm glad you said that. I'm glad he said that. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 17:50

Because I'm gonna be honest with you, and I and I tell you this all the time. If I wanted to be a criminal, I wouldn't have joined the NYP. Exactly. I would have been the best criminal I could be. That's right. You know? I didn't join I didn't I didn't join the NYP to be a criminal criminal. I joined the NYP to have a career, to do something that I'm proud of, my family's proud of, especially coming from foster care, you know, being being a product of the city that, hey, you know, there are there are successful stories. There are good stories coming from the from the inner city, you know, as a black kid. You know, not everything is gloom and doom, but if you work hard, you keep your head down, you pay attention, go to school, you know. Um, there was a lot of pitfalls in between. I'm not gonna say luck, there was no luck that has to do with it.

SPEAKER_04 18:37

So the people out there, for all the cops out there, you hear former retired lieutenant Mike Walker, former retired deputy inspector Corey Pigiz, both telling you, both grew up in the crack era. We're telling you, once you become a cop, like you can't be a cop and a robber.

SPEAKER_03 18:53

I try to tell you it's not gonna work because it's gonna it's gonna catch up to you.

SPEAKER_04 18:58

It's gonna catch up. And you remember when you was little, you always play cops and robbers. And I always ask people, you ever played in a cop and a robber at the same time? No, you can't. So either you're gonna be a cop and do what's right, or you're gonna be a robber. And that's but you can't, you can't mix them. It's not gonna work.

SPEAKER_03 19:16

And and and it's no it's no judgment. I'm not making a judgment. I'm not saying I'm, you know, that's that's the choice that I made that I said, look, I'm not gonna, you know, I can I came up with cats, you know, that took door number one. Right. Like I'm gonna take door number two.

SPEAKER_04 19:30

That's it. And it don't make you no I think I think we landed on our feet. Yeah, I think we all those door number ones is what it is. Right now, you rose through the rank up to patrol lieutenant. What leadership principle mattered most as your responsibility increased?

SPEAKER_03 19:46

Is to one of the most important things and leadership, period, no matter what organization you're in, is that you have to be truthful. You have to be authentic. And sometimes even when it's involving bad news or something that is unpleasant, you have to deliver it. Because the people you are leading are gonna see through that. And and you can't expect people you're leading to do something that you're not willing to do yourself. Okay? And and if you don't know something, say you don't know. Exactly. You know, if you messed up, say you messed up, but this is how we're gonna fix it.

SPEAKER_06 20:24

Right.

SPEAKER_03 20:24

Don't don't cover it up, you know, because that just makes situations work. So, you know, when I was working for you, yeah, I can't, you know, the cops knew I came from eternal affairs, I was in eternal affairs. There's always this mystique about eternal affairs. But I'm gonna tell you, a lot of cops used to come to me and, Lou, can I talk to you for a second? And I used to tell them, yeah, you could talk to me, but just make sure whatever you tell me, that I'm gonna have to report it. I'm gonna have to report. I'm gonna have to report it, but I'll do everything I can do to help you.

SPEAKER_01 20:56

Right.

SPEAKER_03 20:56

And they'll come to me and they'll tell me certain things, and you know, we would go from there.

SPEAKER_01 21:00

Right.

SPEAKER_03 21:00

Um, and I think that because they knew that I was a straight shooter, I would give it to them right.

SPEAKER_04 21:04

Right. You always kept it right, not real.

SPEAKER_03 21:07

Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 21:08

Now serving in multiple commands, PSA 7, 2, and the 67 Precinct, what differences did you notice in leadership styles and community dynamics?

SPEAKER_03 21:19

First precinct, you know, was the 114. So when we started there, that was uh Astoria, which was predominantly Greek and Italian.

SPEAKER_04 21:26

Um little bit of Indian.

SPEAKER_03 21:28

A little bit of Indian. Um what is that? Asian, yeah. Um, African-American American was population was in the projects. So I didn't really find it challenging. I had some incidents where, you know, that were racially motivated from from the citizens that were there because they weren't used to seeing uh cops of color.

SPEAKER_04 21:50

Let me tell you this real quick, Mike. I remember, I swear to you, me and Bob Mary got my little young fella in the background over here. Listen to this. We get a call. Whatever the call was, I can't remember. It's on the Rikers Island side. Rikers Island is the biggest jail in the country, and that's where all the affluent houses are. All the white people lived over there, right? So we get the call. We go there. I ring the bell. The radio goes off on my hip. And she goes, poor Adam. They're saying that it's a black guy at the door dressed like a cop. And the same thing happened to me. And I come over there and I go, Central, tell them we got these jobs too. Now open the damn door.

SPEAKER_03 22:40

No, I mean that's that's that yeah. People don't understand. We had to deal with that. The same thing happened. Same thing happened to me. Because the central comes over there, Central, the comp the point saying that there's two black males personnel police officers at the at the door. People don't understand.

SPEAKER_04 22:55

We had to deal with that and then still keep a straight face, still be professional with these obvious races. Right. But it was it was a great learning experience. It was definitely a learning experience. Um we but we had to deal with racism inside the precinct. Right. Outside of the street.

SPEAKER_03 23:14

Yeah, I mean, but we were built for it, you know.

SPEAKER_04 23:18

Yeah, but our generation definitely was built for it. Now, you and I definitely served in the 6-7 precinct, one of the most prestigious assignments for, you know, commanders and cops in the city. How important is trust and relationships inside of command? Now, before you answer, whenever I started moving around commands, once Mike made lieutenant, he called me, he was like, yo, Corey, I'm a lieutenant now. I was like, yo, you come and be with me. Because as you start getting higher, you need somebody. You need two or three people that you could trust. And I knew that your integrity was top-notch. We've known each other for many years, similar backgrounds. Yeah, I used to bust your ass in basketball, you know, when we used to play, you know, at nighttime. I don't know, but I remember Yeah, we remember that.

SPEAKER_05 24:13

I don't remember that.

SPEAKER_04 24:14

But um, it was great having you there because I know we have like three, four hundred people working in the 6-7 precinct. I could leave. I didn't care. I knew if you were there, everything was good. Now, how important is trust and relationships inside of command?

SPEAKER_03 24:30

Well, we well, we have to back it up a little bit because that's not the first time I worked for you.

SPEAKER_04 24:35

No, it's not, right? I forgot about that. You were lieutenant in the court. But that was that was a 6-7 precinct course.

SPEAKER_03 24:43

And I and I was a sergeant. Mm-hmm. You know. One of our toughest assignments. Yeah, and uh we we went through a lot there. But as far as the 6-7, I thought it was, I thought it was easy. Because we both had a I had enough experience coming from patrol commands, investigative commands.

SPEAKER_04 24:59

And you had the military background.

SPEAKER_03 25:00

And I had the military background. So I was I was well prepared. I was even prepared for the politics. And and I'm not a politician. That's one of the reasons why I retired after 20, why I didn't pursue moving up further, because I'm just I'm not a politician. And I knew I just wouldn't do well in that environment.

SPEAKER_04 25:20

That was my thing. I was the politician.

SPEAKER_03 25:22

Right, right, right. If you didn't if you didn't retire, you know, I I would have stayed.

SPEAKER_04 25:27

Oh, you used to stay because I needed just one quick story. I remember one of the first things we had to deal with was a funeral. We had to go to a funeral from Brooklyn to Suffolk County, which is far out from Brooklyn. And so we had a bus, all the cops are in uniform. We had to go out there. Now the NYPD got a regulation. If you go out, because of what happened before, somebody went to a funeral, they all was in bars, drunk with their uniforms. So it's like if you go to a funeral uniforms, you gotta come back to sign out. And I remember we did like two months. It wasn't even long, two or three months. And the delegates were like, you know, guys are gonna leave from the funeral.

SPEAKER_03 26:10

And you came up to me, was like now, now you delegates, they were like union representatives.

SPEAKER_04 26:16

Union representatives.

SPEAKER_03 26:16

And they were brothers, they were black.

SPEAKER_04 26:18

Two black, two black, they literally are brothers, two black, right? These two black guys, it was a fucking pain in my ass the whole time because they they didn't realize that they was black. But anyway, they wanted the cops to leave from the funeral. And you made a command decision, and you was like, nah, y'all all gotta come back. The ironic thing is we riding the Southern State Parkway all the way to Suffolk County, and I literally gotta ride by my house. I literally could get the money and you can see my house. And I'm saying, if I gotta come back and ride by my house, you all gotta come back. But you saved me from that day because if we would have let those cops go, I already know. They would have been in embalge all over something.

SPEAKER_03 27:04

I was ready for it because you know, look, I liked them and you know. And we graduated with one of them for the academy. Yeah, I mean, I still call them friends, but I I was ready for them and I pulled out my pocket the regulation.

SPEAKER_06 27:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 27:18

And I told them to read it. What does that say?

SPEAKER_04 27:20

Right. Oh, they was mad. But that's was that's good leadership because nine out of ten people ain't doing that. Because we know in leadership, most people want to be liked, right? Not respected. They just want to be liked.

SPEAKER_03 27:34

Well, like I said earlier, if I wanted to be a criminal, I would have been a criminal.

SPEAKER_04 27:38

Exactly. So I appreciate that. You would always call me and say, yo, Corey, yo, nah, nah. That's just you can't do that. This ain't gonna work. You can't do it like this. But for those commanders and leaders out there in any organization, if you don't have somebody that's going to check you, he checked me all the time. But I love him, this is my brother. But he checked me. Sometimes I'll be like, damn, Mike, why? Come on, man. He's like, look, this is your career. You could do it that way, but I'm telling you, if you do it this way, we good. And you always was that ear for, you know, whispering, that person whispering in my.

SPEAKER_03 28:25

Well, I mean, I knew the I knew the pressure you were under being uh the first black commander in the 6-7, which was the the jump off for for higher higher rank, higher commands. But I knew that the forces out there that didn't want you to be there. Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_04 28:43

But I appreciate you and all you did for me.

SPEAKER_03 28:46

Uh it's all love, bro.

SPEAKER_04 28:47

For all the years. And we're still like peasing apart to this day. Now we're up to the segment in Corey's corner, the Spitfire round. Well, I'm gonna ask you 10 rapid fire questions. You're gonna give me yes, no answers, one-word answers. It's a fun game. You ready? Ready. Let's go. Undercover work, thrilling or stressful? One word. Stressful. Internal affairs, necessary or misunderstood? Misunderstood. Is leadership learned or earned? One word. Earned. Most important rank, officer or lieutenant? Officer. Military service changed your life. Yes. Iraq deployment, transformational? Transformational. NYPD prepared you for acting, yes or no? Yes. Yes. Definitely. Definitely.

SPEAKER_03 29:39

We acted every day. Definitely, definitely. No doubt.

SPEAKER_04 29:42

Acting after retirement. Risk or reward? Reward. Discipline matters more than talent. Talent.

unknown 29:50

Talent.

SPEAKER_04 29:51

Second action life are possible. Yes. 100%. Legacy over title. Yes or no? Legacy. Okay, nice. Thank you for participating in the Spitfire round.

SPEAKER_05 30:05

That was good.

SPEAKER_04 30:06

Before we move forward, let me take you somewhere for a second. Everything we talk about on this show, power, accountability, and redemption, it's not just a conversation for me. I lived it, I earned it, I've survived it. I've seen both sides of the system. I walked the street, I've worn the badge. I've carried the weight of decisions that changed people's lives. That's why I wrote Once a Cop. It's not just a book. It's a raw, unfiltered truth about the journey from the corners of Queens, New York to the shiny hallways of the NYP, the headquarters, one police plaza. The pressure, the politics, the purpose, the course. And the documentary, a cops and robbers story, pulls the curtain back even further. No headlines, no sound bites, just a human story behind a uniform. Because behind every badge is a man, behind every rank is a story, and behind every story is a choice. Now we're from our sponsor.

SPEAKER_00 31:05

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SPEAKER_02 31:40

What's up, y'all? I'm Derby St. Ford. Make sure you check out Corey's Corner on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts.

SPEAKER_04 31:47

Let's get back at it. You were deployed to Iraq as a company commander during Operation Iraqi Freedom. You were a captain in the Army Reserve. How did leading soldiers in combat change you as a leader and as a man? Before you answer, I remember that day vividly when you called me and was like, yo, sending me to Iraq. And we having like this ceremony. I want you to come out. And we went out. Where was that? Floyd Benefield? Fort Tottenham. It was at Fort Totten in Queens. I remember because you know I was in the military, 10th Mount Division, Fort Drum. So I kind of knew like it's gonna be soldiers here that's not coming back. And I hoped that my man was coming back. It was a tough day. It was a tough day giving you the sole clap and the hug. And like, damn, I hope Mike make it back through this. I was in the National Guard at the time. One of the first soldiers that got killed in the National Guard was Chris Engledrum from Iraqi War. I was his medic. If I would have went from Desert Storm.

SPEAKER_03 33:00

Desert Storm?

SPEAKER_04 33:01

Yeah. If I would have gone, I would have probably been in that Humphrey. So I definitely remember that. Now, how did leading soldiers again in combat change you as a leader and as a man?

SPEAKER_03 33:15

Uh well, I had a big challenge, unfortunately. The majority of my career was in the United States Army Reserves. I started as an enlisted, a private, went, did RTC, got my commission, changed the rank of captain. They thought I was qualified to be a company commander, so I took over a quartermaster company. Now, unfortunately, the way the reserves and even I believe the National Guard is made up, the unit is usually not full to capacity. It doesn't have all the soldiers that it needs with the with their special uh jobs that they have. So what happened, I was cross-level with maybe I would say over half of the company were soldiers from other states that I didn't know or had a relationship with. Or not even some of my NCOs had a relationship with. Now, because at the time I was a captain, I was allotted four lieutenants. Only had one before the war started. So I had three other lieutenants that came from other states that I had to build a relationship with. Same thing with the other non-commissioned officers that came from other states and low enlisted soldiers that come from other states.

SPEAKER_04 34:21

And you gotta do this while in war.

SPEAKER_03 34:23

Try to build these reliable try to build these relationships. So we all we had to we had to build trust, we had to build relationships. And it was it was challenging. Um and I actually had I had to be the bad guy because when we when we landed, we started having these, I'll just give one example, we started having these accidental discharges where we had live ammunition, M16s, and the soldiers were just popping off because they just weren't used to having their weapons with live ammunition. Right, right. So I got called down by the two-star general that was in charge of the division. And he was like, look, if you don't correct this, I'm gonna relieve you. That's all he said.

SPEAKER_06 35:05

Right.

SPEAKER_03 35:05

War war is a is a different is a different animal. Right. It's not playtime. Uh-huh. And so I got everybody together, and I told my senior, talking about my first sergeant, my first sergeant, first sergeant Gregory Betty, he's a great guy. I told him why we were there, I said, you're gonna be the command sergeant major of the United States Army Reserve one day. And he is the command sergeant major of the United States Army Reserve right now. In charge of all the senior non-commissioned officer of all the enlisted soldiers in the United States Army. Nice. And he's probably overseas right now. I told my NCOs, that's E6s, staff sergeants, E5s. I told them, if y'all don't correct this, and I had to, you know, do do a letter and they had to sign it, that you're gonna get demoted and you're gonna get field grade Article 15s.

SPEAKER_04 35:55

Wow. You know, and Field Grade Article 15, they're writing you up. Like, yeah, yeah, that's yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:01

So, so, and I had to I had to put a couple soldiers in jail while I was I used to sleep with my 45 underneath my pillow while I was over there. Because I because a lot of these soldiers were not disciplined. They were, you know, going, they were not active duty soldiers.

SPEAKER_01 36:14

Right.

SPEAKER_03 36:14

So they were not acting, not only they were on active duty now, they were active duty in time of war.

SPEAKER_04 36:19

Right.

SPEAKER_03 36:19

Okay. So it's a whole different animal.

SPEAKER_04 36:22

There was like Home Depot workers, Amazon workers. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 36:25

Pizza people, right? You know, so I had to put a couple in jail. Um, I had to demote a lot. Um unfortunately I did lose three soldiers while I was over there. But, you know, war war is war. And um, as far as leadership goes, is that sometimes as a leader you have to make it's not a popularity contest. That's right. And and but I can say this though, you know, there's always this thing with, you know, in the military now, transgender females can do this and can't do this. Let me tell you something. One of my best officers and uh and uh NCOs and enlisted were were female soldiers. They they went above and beyond, and it's not about physical strength, it's about mental toughness.

SPEAKER_01 37:08

Right.

SPEAKER_03 37:08

So, I mean, I could just say firsthand, don't believe anything, you know, females can't do this. No, that's that's all BS.

SPEAKER_04 37:17

I love it. What lessons from the military command carried over into your NYPD leadership upon your return from? I mean, here you in you're in a battle war, you in a real war, not play-play war, and then you had to come back home to your regular job.

SPEAKER_03 37:34

Yeah, I would I would say as far as leadership is my my thing is I always told told the officers, you know, look, if you make a mistake of the mind, we can get past that. We can work, we can work, we could work through that. But if you make a mistake of the heart, that's it, it's not gonna work.

SPEAKER_04 37:52

Nope.

SPEAKER_03 37:52

It's not it's not gonna work. You're just gonna have to find a different job. And um, and being being a police officer in New York City, being a police officer is not is not an easy job. But at the end of the day, I always strike tactics. And I always told everybody, and this is my approach, you gotta approach everybody like they like they're not your friend. That's right. You just met these, you just they're not your friend. But be professional, but be always tactically minded also. Always. You know, and um, and that's that's one of the things that I definitely I always had that because I joined the military young, but definitely coming back for war is this is is tactic be tactically proficient, what you do.

SPEAKER_04 38:33

So we're watching a major escalation with the U.S. and Israel launching strikes and Iran retaliating across the region. Based on your military and law enforcement experience, how do you assess the strategy on both sides right now, U.S. and Israel?

SPEAKER_03 38:52

In a in a and with Iran?

SPEAKER_04 38:54

Yes, we have Iran.

SPEAKER_03 38:56

Um, well, first I gotta say is that no matter what side you're on politically, as Americans, we have to support our troops. Absolutely. We have to support them.

SPEAKER_04 39:06

They didn't ask them.

SPEAKER_03 39:07

Right. They didn't right. I mean, they they raised their hand, they took the oath. Um they got the call, just like I did. You know, I can't say I didn't want to play anymore, just like they said they can't play anymore.

SPEAKER_01 39:18

Right.

SPEAKER_03 39:18

But they're doing their job for us.

SPEAKER_01 39:21

That's right.

SPEAKER_03 39:22

And so we just have to keep them in our prayers, and hopefully this will come quickly to an end. But I think this is just my personal assessment. Did we have to get into this right away at this particular time? No. Would we have to have gotten into this situation eventually? Probably so. Do I feel that uh Israel pushed the president into it? I I believe so. That's just my personal opinion.

SPEAKER_04 39:45

I I second that. I definitely. That's my personal opinion.

SPEAKER_03 39:48

And I'm not this is you know, I'm I'm Jewish, okay? You know, I have I'm Jewish. But um there's a difference between the religious side of it and the political side of it. And um I think this is a situation where we didn't have to uh commit to it right away. Unfortunately, I think the Strait of Hamooz is is a problem. We we have to own that now as the United States. You know, I know I know the president's asking for help. Ain't nobody coming to help us. We owned it, we started it. And unfortunately, this is just my own personal opinion based on my experience that to open that straight up, because if we don't, it's gonna be big problems for us and worldwide. Um those ships have to get through there.

SPEAKER_04 40:33

That's right.

SPEAKER_03 40:34

And unfortunately, that is gonna take uh boots on the ground and and unfortunately, additional loss of life. And uh so that's why, you know, when we when we pick our leaders, we gotta be careful how we do it.

SPEAKER_04 40:47

That's right. So this is not on this is not on the card, but do you think this is going to be approach um long-term rule, long-term meaning a couple of years? I could you you just can't just be able to do that.

SPEAKER_03 41:03

No, it's i for for this reason, for this reason, we can't, there's no turning back now because either we're gonna control that that straight, right? We have to control that straight, and that's gonna take force, and it's gonna take a fortune loss of loss of life. We will we will eventually co control it, but it's gonna be protracted, and Iran is not gonna stop. It's not gonna stop, it's not gonna stop the ghost those Gulf states. And this is my personal, I think it will be protracted.

SPEAKER_05 41:33

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 41:33

Now, I mean, I guess you're gonna it's gonna be past the the present presidency? Probably so. Because it's just not something you can just put back in a put back in the box now.

SPEAKER_04 41:44

Now, uh, we talked about this straight of or muse, which controls a huge portion of the oil that's 20%. Uh how serious is the risk that this conflict turns into a broader global crisis?

SPEAKER_03 42:01

I I think that because of well, so that means you're probably alluding to China and Russia.

SPEAKER_04 42:07

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 42:08

And probably North Korea Korea. It depends on the relationship, the continued relationship with China and and Russia. China gets a majority of its oil from from the Gulf states. That's right. And now, when we first joined the military, who were we training to fight? Russians. We were training to fight Russians, commies. Remember the little Russia's not our friend, okay? And they're looking for that weakness, and they're gonna exploit it as much as they can. That was our whole training. That was our whole training.

SPEAKER_04 42:40

The whole training was in to defeat Russia, right?

SPEAKER_03 42:44

The silhouettes were Russian silhouettes.

SPEAKER_04 42:46

And that's freaking 40 years ago. 30, 40 years ago.

SPEAKER_03 42:50

I just think here for us here in the United States as civilians, we just have to be careful where we go in spaces. You go into the mall. Like I was in the Roosevelt Mall the other day. Yeah, and all of a sudden, people started like running.

SPEAKER_04 43:03

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 43:04

You know, about that. Yeah, they people started running. I'm like, and I'm listening for the gunshot.

SPEAKER_04 43:08

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_03 43:09

I'm looking like, okay, where the where the gunshot coming from?

SPEAKER_04 43:11

Right, right.

SPEAKER_03 43:12

You know, but it was a bunch of kids doing some yeah, I heard some have fell. So so you just have to be aware of where you're the spaces that you're in nowadays. Yeah, you know, keep your head away swivel.

SPEAKER_04 43:22

We're seeing high-level assassinations and leadership losses on Iran's side, but reports say the regime is still holding strong. What does that tell you about how wars are really won or sustained?

SPEAKER_03 43:36

Well, if you go back to what is Persia in the Bible? Persia is Iran. Okay. That's a civilization that's been around for over 2,000 years. Right.

SPEAKER_04 43:44

And they got 92 million people there.

SPEAKER_03 43:46

And how how old is the United States? I mean, so they built for whatever, whatever. Right. Iran, you know, I mean, yeah, militarily, can we defeat them? Of course we will.

SPEAKER_04 43:56

But they're not gonna stop.

SPEAKER_03 43:58

Iran learned from what happened with Iraq. How the failures of the Iraq war on Iraq side. So their whole operational posture now is not taking us, you know, bullet for bullet, but hit hitting us economically. Now, why this administration didn't think that they would attack the Gulf states where we have bases and a you know is beyond. I I just can't figure this one out.

SPEAKER_04 44:24

I I could figure it out. They just wasn't prepared. Like, come on, man. This administration is a joke, as far as I'm concerned. And I don't think they're for the American people. I think they're for the billionaires.

SPEAKER_03 44:35

Oh, yeah, for yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 44:37

So this they really was crazy, like you said. They really thought they was gonna go there, bomb, take, take the Ayatollah, take him out, and everything's gonna be fine. But the people was gonna do an uprising and take over. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_03 44:51

Look, now what a lot of young people don't understand is that Iran and the United States were France. Iran and Israel were France. But the common denominator, all of this, is oil. It's oil, oil. Okay. Daitola came to power because he convinced the populace that why should we have Western countries control that oil? That's right. He got rid of the Shah. We were young enough to remember that, the hostages and all that stuff. But before that, we were good with Iran. Because our oil companies, we were everybody was getting rich. So man, you know, we paid the Shah off and whatnot. And, you know, so ever since then, because Israel was our friend, so now Israel's an enemy, and and so the last 40 years.

SPEAKER_04 45:32

It's insane.

SPEAKER_03 45:33

You know, and and and it was interesting is that my grandson, you know, when I was helping him prepare for college, you know, he was looking to pay for it. I was like, DeMarca, what about ROTC? He was kind of reluctant, but he's like, okay, all right, you know, I'll try it. But I said, but I said to him, I said, if Kamala wins, you can do it.

SPEAKER_04 45:49

Right.

SPEAKER_03 45:50

I said, Trump wins, absolutely not. Absolutely not. Well, that was and that was, you know.

SPEAKER_04 45:56

That's the decision. So after retiring from the NYPD, you pursued an acting career and joined SAG AFTR. What gave you the courage to chase a lifelong dream later in life? And I didn't even have a freaking clue that you was doing this acting until you was calling me, telling me.

SPEAKER_03 46:14

Well, well, you know, the thing is, well, just like you, you know, you had this thing where you were doing a journal, you you weren't talking about it. Right. Then all of a sudden, look, I'm writing a book, I'm making a movie. Right. But you always had this in your mind. Right. So for me, acting is something I always wanted to do from young. But you know, growing up, you know, but we had channel two, channel four, you know, there was nobody, you know, I mean, you know, if you tell, you know, as a young, young black kid, talking, yeah, I want to be an actor, they're gonna be looking at you like because the only ones that was doing it was the girls, dance. If you was doing that, you was kind of looked at like little, you know, whatever, whatever. So I just kept it to myself. And um, but as time went on, I said, you know what? When I retire, I'm gonna pursue this. So when I retired, I went to uh out to LA for like six to nine months, stayed out there, kind of learned the business. Um, and you had mentioned something earlier, how did the uh NYPD help you? It did, because you know, I got some headshots and my experience, you know, and I sent it out to agents, and I found the agent quick. Right. And I was going on these auditions for like TV Law and Order, this and that, da da da da. Right. But I didn't know how to act. Right. In order to get an acting coach. So now so then I had to learn how to act. So I've been so I've been at it for like uh over 10 years now, and uh I've had some some moments. I've had an audition the other day for Law and Order again.

SPEAKER_04 47:39

But you've been on a lot of you started what uh Cusumen's video?

SPEAKER_03 47:44

Yeah, yeah. I was uh yeah, I think one of the first things I did was uh with um J. Cole. I was in the J. Cole video. J. Cole's video. J. Cole video. Last thing I did was um with Queen Latifa uh uh last year um on uh The Equalizer. Yeah. And that was that was cool.

SPEAKER_04 48:00

Um proud of you, man. So for all these cops that's deciding if they want to retire or not, with two testaments that there is life after the NYPD or any other police department. You have any dreams you want, you know. I wanted to tell my story because I knew I said, yo, this story was crazy. I gotta tell it. He wanted to be an actor. And by the way, thank you for taking me and my daughter because you're a sad guy. You took us to Alicia Key's play, Hell's Kitchen. Backstage took us backstage to meet the actress on this um Key Lewis, Tony Award winner. Tony Award winner. Keisha Lewis was your next door neighbor growing up in Springfield Gardens. Yeah, that's crazy. So were you thinking about she was acting way back then?

SPEAKER_03 48:45

Oh, yeah, no, yeah. She was from from younger, she she actually went to um performing arts. So she was she she's about three three years older than me, I think. But she was uh yeah, she was always and you know, but as a boy, it just wasn't something.

SPEAKER_04 49:00

Uh huh.

SPEAKER_03 49:00

You know, we were playing sports and you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 49:03

So how had how was your how did your background in law enforcement and the military influence the roles you take and the stories that you want to tell?

SPEAKER_03 49:12

Yeah, I do I do get auditions a lot for um for law enforcement, police officers, FBI, um, but kind of more so authoritative figures. Um and I think my my natural personality is a fit, but there is training that goes into acting. There's definitely, you know, because you know we all watch television. You know if somebody's like, man, that person's a bad actor.

SPEAKER_01 49:36

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_03 49:37

You know, not not not not throwing Tyler Perry under the bus.

SPEAKER_01 49:40

Right.

SPEAKER_03 49:40

But you know, I mean his his his shows are entertaining, but sometimes it's like okay, you know.

SPEAKER_04 49:47

So for young people, especially those coming out of the foster care system or facing obstacles in general, what do you want them to understand about resilience, reinvention, and purpose?

SPEAKER_03 50:00

Everyone has a hard luck story, okay. Some are just a little harder than others.

SPEAKER_01 50:05

Right.

SPEAKER_03 50:06

Okay. And you have to take responsibility. And uh one thing one thing you always hear me have say is that look, I'm not the cause of your pain.

SPEAKER_04 50:16

Yes, that is a common, that's a common Mike Walker statement.

SPEAKER_03 50:20

I'm not the cause of your pain. And we're always looking to transfer um responsibility on other someone else and blame someone other and a lot of times that is that that can't be the case. But if you know that, what are you gonna do about it?

SPEAKER_01 50:35

Right.

SPEAKER_03 50:35

You know, and for us growing up in a you know, poor, you know, what is what is the equalizer? It's education. That's right. And you know, getting a good education i i is is paramount, it's important to to survival, to success, opportunities. And yes, I mean there's always there's always luck. And then mentorship. You you you need somebody to kind of look up to to emulate. You know, and uh fortunately in NYPD, we didn't have too many of those. Yeah, we didn't. I mean, we thought we did. Yeah, they got a lot now though.

SPEAKER_04 51:10

We thought we did? Yeah, we thought we probably did. Yeah, we were bamboozled. I'm glad you said that. As a black man in law enforcement, how did you live the experience with race change as you rose through the ranks? And did the expectations placed on you shift in ways your white counterparts didn't experience? Well So you was like the gift of the curse. You could you could play the Jew card, well, well Jewish card, and you could play that you was black as you you light skinned, fright-skinned.

SPEAKER_03 51:39

So so my so my experience, and I'd say this all the time, you know, I grew up out here. Right. You know, um, and out here, I was I was black as you can be.

SPEAKER_04 51:49

That's right.

SPEAKER_03 51:50

I was like, it was I've never had, I wasn't, it's never no issue, just no light, you know, tees and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_04 51:56

So you know, you square everything. Christopher Williams.

SPEAKER_03 51:59

You square up. All right, you just yeah, you just you know, you fight. That's it. Once you once you knock it knocked a couple teeth out, oh yeah, he black. He is black. Okay. It wasn't until I got out where I started seeing this like separation a little bit. Even among my own, with you know, a little colorism here and there.

SPEAKER_06 52:19

Right.

SPEAKER_03 52:20

Um, and then even perceiving, you know, interacting with white uh peers and leaders, how my darker skinned brothers and sisters were treated.

SPEAKER_01 52:33

Right.

SPEAKER_03 52:33

You know, and that was kind of like it was unsettling to me. And and and kind of like it caught me off guard a little bit. Right. Because that's not how I, you know, it's like yeah, it's just not something I was used to. I wasn't used to that type of, you know, I grew up in an all-black neighborhood.

SPEAKER_04 52:48

Right, right.

SPEAKER_03 52:49

So it's not something, so it's that's something I kind of had to kind of use to, and then either even among my own, just, you know, it's kind of maybe the the hate a little bit, or you uh you skin this and that, whatever, whatever.

SPEAKER_04 53:02

Well, listen, as you went through the ranks and moved up in leadership roles, did you ever feel caught between loyalty to the uniform and accountability to the community?

SPEAKER_03 53:12

My accountability was to the community because me and you both, you know, even in uniform, we were members of 100 Blacks in Uniform. 100 Blacks in Law Enforcement Law Enforcement.

SPEAKER_04 53:22

Which was the spokesperson was former Mayor Eric Adams, spokesperson. Right. Not president of the university.

SPEAKER_03 53:28

So so so so we were all I was always we were always community conscious. That's right. We did press, we went on TV.

SPEAKER_04 53:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 53:34

We we put ourselves out there, that's right, you know, because we knew where we came from. You know, we we we stood we still stood a solid ground. That's right, you know, as black as black men. That we knew we had a special position and a voice, even to the detriment of our careers.

SPEAKER_04 53:51

Yeah, you know. I mean, I'm deputy inspector, you're lieutenant. We we're doing press conferences eight in the morning and going into work at 12 o'clock. We on the news. People in the lunchroom is watching, cops are looking at us on the news. Right. So doing press conferences.

SPEAKER_03 54:10

You know, but but but the bottom line is that's why it's like I think I connected with you from day one because I knew right away that you were 100% authentic.

SPEAKER_06 54:20

Right.

SPEAKER_03 54:21

You know, and I I and for me, if you're not 100% authentic, I'm not I'm not fooling with you.

SPEAKER_04 54:25

Yeah, you're not. You know, I'm I'm not fooling with you. And I felt the exact same way about you.

SPEAKER_03 54:30

And just this one more thing, we were talking about the the race thing and adjusting.

SPEAKER_01 54:34

Right.

SPEAKER_03 54:34

I I have to I remember during the Crown House Crown Crown House rides, I was on the van with a lot of white officers, Irish and Italian. And and I remember distinctly how they had this when they saw the the the Jewish residents there, how they had this really deep hatred for them, saying some crazy things. And I'm sitting in the back like, oh I was like, man, that's like man, they hate them worse than they hate us.

SPEAKER_04 55:03

Yes, I remember.

SPEAKER_03 55:05

I remember and that was my first really introduction to like anti-Semitism. So that's why even I that's why I never really I never really talked about that part of my ethnicity while on the job because uh because of that. I I saw, I was like, man, that hate is deep.

SPEAKER_04 55:23

Like oh, it was deep, yeah. And when we came in, it was mostly Italian and Irish cops back in the early 90s, late 80s.

SPEAKER_03 55:31

Not it's not like it is now.

SPEAKER_04 55:32

No, it's a little lot different. Last question. Looking back now, what unspoken racial challenges do you think young officers of color today need to be better prepared for as they climb the ranks? And what support systems were missing when we were coming up?

SPEAKER_03 55:51

Well, I think that first and foremost, any officer, any any person that wants to have a career in policing, it's a it's a service, it's a calling. Yeah, they make good money now, but don't do it for the money. One, the job is too dangerous, you can get yourself hurt or worse, or you can see yourself behind bars for a long time. Embarrassment that you bring to yourself and your family will last forever. So basically, you have to go with this in this with this idea. Not this idea, um, because that's not something can be taught, but everybody is deserves respect no matter who they are, what they are, religious background, ethnicity, gender, or anything else. If you go in there, because you're wearing a uniform, that's who they see.

SPEAKER_01 56:40

Right.

SPEAKER_03 56:40

Okay. And yeah, you know, you're gonna get they're gonna you're gonna get baited. You know, you're gonna be like, you know, now there's a lot of Asian officers, you know, Indian officers, um, you know, a lot of a lot of uh officers from different nationalities now that weren't there when we came on, and they're gonna have challenges dealing with their own kind because they're gonna be expected to have show favoritism. You know what I'm saying? They're gonna be called sellouts. At the end of the day, your job is to to enforce the laws of New York State, okay, and pro and protect life. If they just stay focused with that and and not get baited, then you know, they'll they'll be alright regardless of race, you know.

SPEAKER_04 57:24

Yeah. But before we wrap, is there anything else that you'd like to share that we haven't covered?

SPEAKER_03 57:30

Uh the only thing I can say is that uh take care of your health. Take care of your health, you know, especially, you know, uh if you have a the career, you know, law enforcement, military. Um, but particularly as black men go to the doctor. You know, um since I retired, I've had open heart surgery, I've had spinal surgery, you know. We've had some health challenges also.

SPEAKER_04 57:52

And um two back surgeries.

SPEAKER_03 57:54

Two back surgeries. And um, just take just take care of your health, don't ignore your body. You know, a lot of people we know are not here. That's right, you know.

SPEAKER_04 58:04

Well, Mike, thank you for joining me on Corey's Corner. It was an honor to sit down with someone who I just didn't serve alongside, but I considered my right-hand man, and I still can consider you that. Your journey from force of care to military, policing, NYPD leadership, and now the screen is a powerful story. It's very powerful. And it also reminds you of resilience, discipline, and purpose and what it looks like in real life. I appreciate you for coming on. Your life. Thank you, thank you, thank you. And for the example you continue to set. I appreciate you, brother. I love you, my man. Well, our listeners, if you found value in today's episode, please like, follow, subscribe. This has been another episode of Corey's Corner. Till the next time. Always remember it's not about where you start, it's about where you finish. I'm Corey Pegiz, and I always keep it right, not real. Peace.

SPEAKER_01 59:02

Special thanks to our executive producer, our engineers, and much respect to corrupt mob for making Corey's Corner possible. What's a gap? Let it die.