From the Projects to Policy: Changing the Housing Game

On this episode of Corey’s Corner, retired NYPD executive Corey Pegues sits down with Alicka Ampry-Samuel, Deputy Commissioner at the New York City Department of Housing Preservation and Development, for a real conversation on housing, leadership, and community impact.

Raised in NYCHA’s Marcus Garvey Houses in Brownsville, Brooklyn, Alicka brings lived experience to her role, leading efforts to protect and preserve affordable housing across New York City.

From serving on the New York City Council to overseeing regional operations at HUD, her journey is rooted in service, and a deep commitment to uplifting underserved communities.

We talk about the realities of affordable housing, the gap between policy and people, and what it truly takes to create change from the inside.

This isn’t just about housing it’s about legacy, leadership, and lifting communities forward.

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:11

Pull up a seat. You're now in Corey's Corner where right conversations matter. I'm your host, Corey Peghiz, and I always keep it right, not real. Today's episode is a powerful one because we're talking about something that touches just about every New Yorker, housing. Not just policy, we're talking lived experience, leadership, and real impact. We've got a special guest in the building, Ms. Elika Ampre Samuel. She's the Deputy Commissioner for Asset and Property Management at the New York City Department of Housing Preservation and Development. Yeah, that's a big title. But what it really means is she's on the front lines protecting and preserving affordable housing across the city. But here's what makes her story different. She's not just making decisions from behind a desk. She grew up in NYCHA housing in Brooklyn. Wow. So when she speaks on housing, it's not theory, it's a lived experience. From serving on New York City Council to leading at HUD to now shaping policy that impacts thousands, her journey is one of purpose, resilience, and real service. So today, we're going to talk about housing, community, and leadership, and what it really takes to create change from the inside. Alika, welcome to Corey's Corner, sis.

SPEAKER_02 1:38

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_04 1:42

Finally made it to the corner.

SPEAKER_02 1:43

I'm here.

SPEAKER_04 1:44

This episode of Corey's Corner is brought to you by Vaquila. Vaikila's world first premium blend of vodka and tequila infused into one smooth, unforgettable spirit. Whether you're celebrating success or unwinding after a long week, choose the spirit that's refined in the game. Visit Vaquila.net for more information. And remember, always drink responsibly. Shout out to CorruptMob MC, a brotherhood built on loyalty, respect, and community more than a motorcycle club. Respect the mob. All right, let's get into it. Oh man, I'm so excited. Before we get into your career and everything you're doing now, take us back. What was life like growing up in Brownsville? Your school days, and how did your family shape the women that you become today?

SPEAKER_02 2:35

That's how we started.

SPEAKER_04 2:36

Yeah, we came hard. You didn't know that I was the commanding officer. I know PSA too. And I have all the um projects or housing developments in Crown Heights, East New York, and Brownsville. So let me tell you a little bit about Brownsville. And you know I'm not from Brownsville, just what I know about Brownsville. And Brownsville people get mad at me. I think Brownsville is the most dangerous place in New York City. Violent, when I say in terms of violence. And you know why I say that? And this is what brings them back. Because it's what, a little less than one square mile, right? But you got 12 housing developments there. I remember the time it was just the one bank, one Dunkin' Dunno, nobody's investing in the community. Obviously, it's a lot better now. But um pre-World War II, when they built those housing developments, people don't know. They built them for the soldiers to come home. They never forecast 70, 60 years later, it was gonna be a bunch of, you know, people living in low-income housing and have generational beefs. Van Dyke can't cross Tilden. Tilden can't. Thank God they knocked down Prospect. What they knocked down Prospect that was over there right up on the hill. So let's talk about them early days of the let's talk about it.

SPEAKER_02 3:55

Let's talk about it. So, um, you know, first I like to tell people that I am fourth generation Brownsville.

SPEAKER_05 4:02

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 4:02

So my great-grandmother and her sisters moved to Brownsville in 1934, Corey. Wow from Shaw, North Carolina.

SPEAKER_05 4:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 4:11

So when I talk about my love for Brownsville, it's because that's all I know. Right. And it's generations of it. And um, it's just interesting when people think about Brownsville and you might hear violence. That's actually not how I see Brownsville. That's not my, that's that's not my lens, that's not my experience.

SPEAKER_04 4:28

That's because you're living in it.

SPEAKER_02 4:29

I I guess so.

SPEAKER_04 4:30

You was living in it. The people from the outside, they have to come visit it, and then they hear, they hear the crazy stories.

SPEAKER_02 4:37

It's it's the stories, right? And that's a narrative that I have always tried to change because I grew up in Marcus Garvey House's 1400 East New York Avenue apartment 6A.

SPEAKER_04 4:47

Wow, Marcus Garvey.

SPEAKER_02 4:48

And my mother was the first tenant, the first person in that apartment because it was built in 1975. Right. Wow. But um, I I just want to go back real quick because my mother lived on prospect before Prospect Plaza. My mother lived on prospect when it was a prospect market.

SPEAKER_05 5:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 5:09

And so all of the stories that I remember my mother telling me was based on this is a community, Browns was a village, right, and how fun it was and how people work together. And so coming up, growing up in the projects in Marcus Garvey houses, it was everybody looking out for one another. Right. When I was leaving out of the building, going to school, people were saying, good morning, Tanny, and making sure that I got back in the house safely. Yeah. Because I was a latchkey kid.

SPEAKER_04 5:36

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_02 5:37

But I remember Brownsville going from one development to the next, doing dances during Brownsville Day. That's not the Brownsville that people see today, right, or the stories that's told. Yeah. But I had an amazing experience growing up in Brownsville with a mother that was loving, father had some issues with drugs, mother, you know, dying when I was in high school. But they cared and they provided us with safe housing. So when I left school and came back home, I came home to a welcoming environment.

SPEAKER_04 6:06

I love it. It's it's nice you say all those things because it mirrors exactly what Assemblywoman Latrice Walker. Oh, my sister? My sister Latrice? Yes, your sister Latrice actually spoke about how Brownsville was such a loving place with her growing up, her brothers and her parents and stuff. And um, so see, people that don't live in Brownsville, obviously, I'm talking when I was talking about most dangerous, I'm talking from a police perspective because the numbers don't lie in the violence, but it's not even as violent as it was when, you know, the crack hour. It's nowhere near. But um, Brownsville is a very interesting place. You grew up in Marcus Garvey houses. And for the record, I can't even remember a lot of crime in Marcus Garvey. It was An Dyke till then, Unity.

SPEAKER_02 7:00

What does this crime you talk about?

SPEAKER_04 7:02

I don't talk about it no more, but damn it, Brownsville used to stress me. They had me in Comsted. I mean, think about Comsted. You kind of answered, uh, I was gonna ask you, how did your um lived experience shape your passion for housing while growing up?

SPEAKER_02 7:18

So grew up in public housing, right? But when I got to high school, my mother applied for one of those housing lotteries. Yeah. Remember it was in the newspaper before where you had to put a stamp on an envelope and nail it in so they could return the application. And so my mother was able to move into one of those renovated um project-based section eight buildings. Right. So we moved from 1400 East New York Avenue to 1169 East New York Avenue, three of the blocks down the street. But we moved from a two-bedroom to a three-bedroom.

SPEAKER_05 7:50

Right.

SPEAKER_02 7:51

But it was all still affordable housing, right? Right, based on my mother's income, you know, my mother's retired school safety.

SPEAKER_05 7:57

Right.

SPEAKER_02 7:57

And so that experience of growing up in the in the NYCHA developments and then moving down the street to one of those affordable housing section eight buildings, it was again in my mind, safe, affordable, right, clean housing that my mother was able to keep with her job, right? Working as a school safety agent and raising her children. And so for me, housing was always important because I also saw people not as fortunate, people being evicted, or you know, like put out and going into shelters. And so for me, I just always knew that if you go to school, you know, the the the the number one thing that you're supposed to do for my mother is provide a shelter, provide housing for your family.

SPEAKER_05 8:46

Right.

SPEAKER_02 8:46

And that's that was just always something that I grew up with, understood, and it was a priority for me.

SPEAKER_04 8:52

I love it. I love it. Shout out to your mother.

SPEAKER_02 8:55

Um she rest in peace? Yes.

SPEAKER_04 8:58

As deputy commissioner at New York City Department of Housing Preservation and Development, what does your day-to-day responsibility look like?

SPEAKER_02 9:06

My day-to-day. Every day is different.

SPEAKER_04 9:09

You know, before we came on, we were talking and you was telling me, like, man, I'm working so hard right now. You would think people look in there and say, Deputy Commissioner, they don't work. Oh, I work.

SPEAKER_02 9:22

I work. I work. This is New York City, and New York City is having a lot of challenges with affordable housing. And so within my unit of asset and property management, I am overseeing working with amazing city workers. But within my portfolio was the Michelama buildings.

SPEAKER_04 9:40

Michelama, Rochdale Village.

SPEAKER_02 9:42

Right, right, right. What's the one in the Bronx? Oh man, and the Bronx, you get well, the big one. Co-op city?

SPEAKER_04 9:50

Co-op city, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:50

Co-op city, state Michelama. Um, but you got Tracy Tap. Anyway, the Michelama portfolio. And then we have all of those. Remember the the till buildings, the tenant interim lease buildings where families were living in these buildings for so many years and they had an opportunity to become an HDFC co-op, right? Um, that's within my portfolio. Then we have all of the buildings that have rent uh regulatory agreements with the city. And so within my portfolio alone is over 210,000 units of affordable housing. And then we have my property management division, which is responsible for all of the vacant land, vacant lots that the city owned, vacant buildings, buildings with it's just been in our portfolio for many, many, many years. And so it's such a massive portfolio. So every single day is something different. Because our landlords are experiencing challenging times that they've never seen before because of the increase in insurance costs, the cost of building supplies to even maintain buildings, to help renovate and just maintain apartments. We came out of COVID where families had lost jobs, um, had different types of health issues, not able to pay their rent. And so, if an owner of a building is not receiving that same rental income, which was revenue for them, like they did years ago, how are they able to maintain these units? And so every day is is is a challenge. But um with this administration right now, under the Mamdani administration, there's a lot more attention focused on preservation and not just new construction. So my world is preservation, and that's what I'm excited about.

SPEAKER_04 11:45

All right. Well, what are your top priorities right now?

SPEAKER_02 11:48

Right now, top priority is making sure that the owners that we have partnerships with are able to maintain their buildings. And so providing them with technical assistance, providing them with trainings, providing them with information and resources to figure out what are the needs for your building. And so just making sure that we are working with our landlords to help them stabilize the buildings.

SPEAKER_04 12:15

All right, so I'm gonna give you some pushback. We see on the newsback. We see on the news all the time, these slim landlords, they ain't fixing the buildings, they ain't got no heat in there in the winter time, summer rats is taking over. Is that under your purview too? I think it is.

SPEAKER_02 12:32

No, you know what? I'll I'll I'll say this, right? So, so And I know those could be.

SPEAKER_04 12:38

You have good act actors and you have bad actors, right? Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_02 12:41

And and just like you just said, right? Um, those are I'm not even gonna say there's a one-offs, right? But those are the people who are not doing what they're supposed to be doing, right? We are holding them accountable.

SPEAKER_04 12:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 12:52

And we are.

SPEAKER_04 12:53

Because it it like hurts me to my heart when I see that stuff, especially in the winter time. You know, the winter it pulls at the strings just like five below zero, you turn on the TV, and this lady with her two kids is wrapped up in coats and it's no heat. And I'm like, damn, what are they gonna do about that? So I'm I'm I'm happy that you're there. And I know you know nonsense and whatever comes across your desk that you can take care of, you're gonna take care of it. We gotta get rid of them type of land laws. But some of them be having hundreds of thousands of dollars in fines. I I don't know what the process is, but like what's the number? Like, they got $200,000 in fines, but we can't take the building from them. But this New York City, the court system is a mess, too.

SPEAKER_02 13:38

I was I was just about to say there are so many things that are happening at the same exact time, right? Right. And there are definitely bad actors out there, but then there are definitely people who are doing the right thing and that are struggling.

SPEAKER_05 13:52

Right.

SPEAKER_02 13:52

And they want, they got into the housing, the like this housing space, the housing industry, because they wanted to provide affordable housing for residents across New York City. Right. And those are the people that we want to help, but we also want to make sure that we're listening to the tenants that live in those buildings as well to figure out how do we how do we help them? What is going on with with those individuals as well. And it's and and it's gonna take, and I keep going back to this new administration because it's a different energy, right? There is more focus on tenant protection, and that's what you need, right? It's not business as usual, right? It's not, and um, you know, there's a famous rapper that said yesterday's price is not today's price. That's real. Costs have increased.

SPEAKER_04 14:32

Yeah. Oh, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 14:34

But the the the cost of living, like just the the amount of wages that people bring home is not keeping up with what we're actually seeing.

SPEAKER_04 14:43

Not in New York City.

SPEAKER_02 14:44

And those are the things that we have to address, I think, holistically. And is is is not just housing, but it's also just just meeting families where they are, um but figuring this out together.

SPEAKER_04 14:56

What do you see is the biggest threat to preserving affordable housing today?

SPEAKER_02 15:01

Outside of the cost of insurance, um, which I think is ridiculous, but also to the the increase in utility costs. Everything is up. Everything is up. You know, people are paying a lot more in just electricity. Um, but in also, like I said before, building supplies in order to actually go out and and and purchase the supplies to do any type of little renovation in your building, those costs are astronomical. Fuel costs within my department because we also pay fuel costs for city-owned um buildings. And we have seen those, we have seen the fuel costs triple just since last year. And so there's so many drivers right now. Um, and another huge piece of it is the court system. We have to figure out a way to not just clear the dockets, but have um justices that understand nonprofit partners, nonprofits who own buildings, operate buildings, maintain buildings, and separate them, separate them out from the for-profit building owners. Like that's a big part of it as well.

SPEAKER_04 16:21

From your perspective, where's the biggest gap between housing policy and what residents actually experience?

SPEAKER_02 16:28

Oh, you know, as a former legislator.

SPEAKER_04 16:32

Yes.

unknown 16:33

Right.

SPEAKER_02 16:34

Like I went to law school because I wanted to draft policy and legislation that had a real impact on the people. But I also know that we have a lot of local laws that make a whole lot of sense, that protect a whole lot of families. But a lot of those laws that building owners have to remain in compliance with were passed as unfunded mandates. There is a real impact on the policies that we're seeing today, and the fact that it's very difficult to adhere to some of our local laws because the funding is just not there.

SPEAKER_05 17:21

Right.

SPEAKER_02 17:22

To make sure that, you know, you you want to make sure that um out these apartments are lead-free, right?

SPEAKER_05 17:29

Right.

SPEAKER_02 17:29

But we also know because of all of the different local laws that are in place, sometimes a unit can be vacant and it will cost north of $50,000 to renovate that unit for another family to move in just because of the regulations around that particular unit having to be in compliance with local laws.

SPEAKER_04 17:49

Right.

SPEAKER_02 17:49

And so um policy is real. But we also have to make sure that when we're looking at budgets across the city and the state, we are uh providing the the financial resources to make sure that those units are safe for families in a way that doesn't put that type of um pressure and stress and strain on the owners, in particular, like specifically like our nonprofit partners.

SPEAKER_04 18:16

Right. Like you said, you were a former council member. In 2021, your race against Darlene Mealy, it was seen by many as an upset, um, unexpected upset when she won. How did you process that loss personally and politically? And what did that moment teach you about navigating the realities of local politics?

SPEAKER_02 18:35

Mmm, that's a good question, Corey.

SPEAKER_04 18:39

Yeah. Wow. The producer in Corey's Corner, they they tight. And I'm I know I know Darlene Mealy personally, also, and it was unexpected to me. I I did not think that she was going to be, but politics is politics.

SPEAKER_02 18:54

New York is politics and all politics is local.

SPEAKER_04 18:57

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 18:58

So I I ran for New York City Council in 2005.

SPEAKER_05 19:02

Right.

SPEAKER_02 19:03

And I was fresh out of law school. I graduated from law school in June, and I ran in that summer for New York City Council. And I and I obviously was not elected in 2005. But I continued to show up for my community, continued to show up for for Brownsville and New Yorkers in so many different ways. And when there was an opportunity to run 12 years later, because of term limits in 2017, I ran for the seat again.

SPEAKER_04 19:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 19:30

And um was successful. It was term limits.

SPEAKER_04 19:32

Right.

SPEAKER_02 19:32

And which is why I love term limits. Um but it was an opportunity for me to be a real voice, especially for families and young people that was born and raised in Brownsville, Brownsville proper, came onto the projects and be a true voice. And I had an amazing four-year experience as a member of the New York City Council. But first two years, 2018, 2019, we hit the ground running. Right. And then 2020, boom.

SPEAKER_04 20:07

COVID.

SPEAKER_02 20:08

COVID.

SPEAKER_04 20:09

COVID. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:11

2020, 2021, it was all COVID. And running for re-election, coming out of a pandemic.

SPEAKER_05 20:21

Right.

SPEAKER_02 20:22

And I know personally 38 people. I stopped counting at 38 people who I know and loved and had relationships with.

SPEAKER_04 20:31

Right.

SPEAKER_02 20:32

Um, 38 people I know died of COVID.

SPEAKER_04 20:35

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 20:35

And my mom, you know, um transitioned in 20 in November of 2020.

SPEAKER_05 20:39

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 20:40

And so it was uh a a real eye-opener. And in 2021, when I ran for re-election and I wasn't um chosen, right, I realized that I was supposed to be in the council for the time that I was there.

SPEAKER_04 20:56

Right.

SPEAKER_02 20:57

And it was me opening up my mind for the next assignment. Right. Like everything in life is an assignment.

SPEAKER_04 21:03

Like we're on a journey. You gotta shut the door. We're human beings live in humanity.

SPEAKER_02 21:10

And so um I was I was disappointed by not being re-elected, but I also understood I was running against someone who was in office for a very long time. For 12 years. And she was also and still is a district leader, right? A state committee member. Uh, and so that was always a possibility. Yes. But I was very, very, very, very, very excited about the phone call I received the next day from my. Well, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.

SPEAKER_04 21:40

Don't be taking my thunderhead. Don't be taking my thunder.

SPEAKER_02 21:43

But it was an experience. It was. And it was time to it was it was clearly it was meant for me to move to my next one.

SPEAKER_04 21:49

You said something m very important, and I truly believe that too. Uh life is about chapters. That chapter closed, close the door. I ain't got no time to be crying. What's up next? Next.

SPEAKER_02 22:01

I'm from Brownsville, man.

SPEAKER_04 22:03

What's the motto? Brownsville.

SPEAKER_02 22:05

Never ran, never will.

SPEAKER_04 22:06

Never ran, never will. So I didn't know it was the next day, but the next day, you get a very next day, you get a call from presidential administration, President Joe Biden to serve as a regional administrator at HUD. What did that vote of confidence mean to you and how did it reshape your path in public service? Because you had just came out of public service, you had the little setback, probably was like, I got my law degree, I'm about to go out here and get this money, then boom, the next day they call you back into public service.

SPEAKER_02 22:42

So, so prior to city council, I was a uh a chief of staff to my state assemblywoman, right? And prior to me serving as chief of staff to Assemblywoman Walker, I worked at the U.S. Embassy in West Africa. I worked for the State Department.

SPEAKER_05 23:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 23:03

And I was a democracy and human rights officer for the United States Department of State.

SPEAKER_04 23:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 23:11

And after that role, I became a communication specialist for United States Agency for International Development, USAID. So I spent three years in West Africa working for the U.S. government.

SPEAKER_05 23:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 23:26

And Latrice called me and said, I'm running for State Assembly. Would you come and work with me on my campaign?

SPEAKER_04 23:33

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 23:33

Hands down, absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 23:36

Two Browns real women.

SPEAKER_02 23:37

And so, and I tell that story because I've done so many different things throughout the course of my career since graduating from college in the 90s. And so being a member of the New York City Council was a piece of that.

SPEAKER_05 23:53

Right.

SPEAKER_02 23:53

And so to receive the nomination from the majority leader, U.S. Senator Schumer, to receive the nomination from him, sent it to the president, Joe Biden, and um, and then get the appointment from the president. That wasn't something I was tracking, but it made sense when you look at my resume. It makes sense when you look at the things that I've done before that.

SPEAKER_04 24:19

Right. And so But some people don't get these opportunities. They get them because the connections. But as you sit here on Corey's corner and you laying down that foundation, you was, in some eyes, probably say, overly qualified for the position. I mean, definitely. Honestly speaking, um you see some of these appointments in administration today? They ain't nowhere near to have the resume. So congratulations to you.

SPEAKER_02 24:46

I know. Um I appreciate that. But so for me to receive that telephone call the very next day, it it was heart, it obviously was emotional, right? Because it was the next. But it was also for me um confirmation that I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing. I don't know what's next, but I truly believe that when you wake up in the morning and you just thank the most high, you thank God, whoever guides you, you know, think think think that higher power, that higher being for waking up and then just ask that simple question, you know, what's next for me?

SPEAKER_05 25:20

Right.

SPEAKER_02 25:21

Lead me to what you will have me to do. That's how I live my life every single day. And so that's what allows me to show up in these spaces and do what I do. If it's just for two years or four years, whatever the time frame is, I go back to is an assignment. It's what I'm here to do. And I'm thankful to know what I'm, you know, like what I'm supposed to be doing every single day. But that particular appointment from President Biden was just confirmation that the path that I'm on is where I'm supposed to be.

SPEAKER_04 25:56

I love it. I love it. Congratulations. Having worked at the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development, how do federal housing policies align or clash with the local realities in New York City?

SPEAKER_02 26:10

So when they align, they align. Not only we'll talk about politics, right? But when they align, they align. Yes. And you can feel it.

SPEAKER_05 26:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 26:19

You can see it.

SPEAKER_05 26:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 26:21

Everybody's moving and working together. And when they don't align, you feel it. And right now, um, we're feeling the pressures, right? We're feeling we're we're feeling the federal policies from HUD with the threats of decreasing the number of Section 8 vouchers, right? Decreasing the amount, like even now, the EHVs, the emergency housing vouchers, that's a real threat to the city of New York. Our um families really needed those vouchers.

SPEAKER_05 26:53

Right.

SPEAKER_02 26:53

And we had we, you know, just HPD working with some great partners, nonprofit organizations, social service providers who were the ones who were finding the units and then providing those social service, wraparound services to those families. And to be at a time now where those vouchers have been taken away, and having to, I don't want to say scramble, but having to figure it out. What other vouchers do we have in place that we can utilize to keep these families housed who are really facing some serious uh trying times.

SPEAKER_05 27:31

Right.

SPEAKER_02 27:31

And and and the one thing that they needed to just be stabilized was that housing voucher. And so seeing how this particular administration is moving, you see the dire the detrimental impact it's having on the local municipalities, not just in New York City, but just across the country.

SPEAKER_04 27:52

Yes, yes, yes. Well, I appreciate your honesty. I don't want to talk about politics, Corey. Okay, so now we're at the point at Corby's corner. We're at the Spitflyer round. Well, actually, 10 rapid fire questions. You give me one word answers. I know you're a lawyer. Your lawyers like to talk. Try not to talk too much. Just give me one word answers. It's a fun game. You ready?

SPEAKER_02 28:22

JD, I don't practice.

SPEAKER_04 28:24

You ready?

SPEAKER_02 28:25

Give me some grace. Oh, you don't practice. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 28:28

You know that that um influencer, Dr. Chantel, she just got busted by saying she had a PhD. She was all over the news. Girl, you lied. You thought that pretty face and smile was gonna get you by.

SPEAKER_02 28:42

Well, I have my JD from CUNY School of Law with the model of law in the service of human need. Okay. CUNY, go CUNY School of Law. I love it.

SPEAKER_04 28:52

Let's go. Brownsville or any else in the world?

SPEAKER_02 28:56

Brownsville. Hold that.

SPEAKER_04 28:58

NYCHA taught you strength or resilience. And you can say both.

SPEAKER_02 29:03

Both.

SPEAKER_04 29:03

One word to describe housing in New York City right now.

SPEAKER_02 29:07

Crossroads.

SPEAKER_04 29:08

Policy or people, which matters more?

unknown 29:11

People.

SPEAKER_04 29:12

Biggest myth about public housing.

SPEAKER_05 29:15

Violence.

SPEAKER_04 29:17

I agree. I definitely agree on that. I definitely agree. Early mornings or late nights.

SPEAKER_02 29:29

It's crazy. I have to do both. I'll say early mornings.

SPEAKER_04 29:32

Okay, did you prefer early morning? Brooklyn food spot, you swear by. Be careful because you might gotta go back to Brooklyn.

SPEAKER_02 29:40

Brooklyn. Right now, at this very moment, I love going to Peaches.

SPEAKER_04 29:45

Peaches?

SPEAKER_02 29:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 29:47

Downtown Fulton Street.

SPEAKER_04 29:49

Yes. One leader who inspired your journey.

SPEAKER_02 29:53

Alive, I would definitely have to go with Tish James.

SPEAKER_04 29:56

Shout out, Tish. My sister, our sister.

SPEAKER_02 30:00

That definitely definitely an inspiration since I was district leader 25 years ago. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_04 30:07

If not public service, what career would you have chosen?

SPEAKER_02 30:12

That's a difficult one. You know what? For a hot minute, I worked at AOL in the legal department. Field management team in copyright law. So I would take tech. I would say tech.

SPEAKER_04 30:26

Yes. You've been making a lot more than you're making now. Thank you for participating. Appreciate that. Corey's corner is powered by Story to Tell Productions. If you're serious about starting a podcast or taking your production to the next level, this is the team you need. Reach out to Story to Tell Productions and get it done the right way. Before we move forward, let me take you somewhere for a second. Everything we talk about on this show, power, accountability, loyalty, redemption, it's not just a conversation for me. I lived it, I earned it, I survived it. I've seen both sides of the system. I walked the street, I've worn the badge, I've carried the weight of decisions that changed people's lives. That's why I wrote Once the Cop, The Street, The Law, Two Worlds, One Man. It's not just a book, it's the raw, unfiltered truth about the journey from the corners of Queens, New York to the high glass hallways of One Police Plaza and the NYPD. The pressure, the politics, the purpose, the course. And the documentary, A Cops and Roberts Story, pulls the curtain back even further. No headlines, no sound bites, just the human story behind the uniform. Because behind every badge is a man, behind every rank is a story, behind every story is a choice. Now we're from our sponsor.

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SPEAKER_00 32:29

Hi, I'm Assemblymember Clive Vanell, and you gotta check out Corey's Corner on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts.

SPEAKER_04 32:36

You served as deputy leader and chaired the public housing committee in the city council. What was your proudest accomplishment during that time?

SPEAKER_02 32:44

That was a great time. So many changes that we were able to make, and so many things we were able to spotlight. And one of the things that I thought was very, very, very helpful was getting NYCHA to publish all of their capital projects across the city. We noticed that the School Construction Authority had all of their capital projects online where, you know, it's like public information. You could just type in a school and information comes up, and the parks department even had something like that. But for residents to be able to pull up their development and get a sense of what was happening at the project level, the contractors that were there that were there, the vendors that didn't exist.

SPEAKER_05 33:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 33:30

And so now there's a capital project tracker that exists. And um it tells you not just what's happening, but what the capital repair needs are. The last time there was a physical needs assessment done, what the numbers look like, and the projected issues and what's needed. Okay. And um and it's in real time.

SPEAKER_04 33:51

What's one housing policy you fought for that people may not realize has had a major impact?

SPEAKER_02 33:57

While at NYCHA, I because I used to actually work at NYCHA. I was a senior advisor at the New York City Housing Authority. And a lot of what I saw up close working within the agency is what had a direct impact on the work that I did when I was in the New York City Council. And fast forward to when I was at HUD, there was a lot of preservation deals that we wanted to see happen, but it was so controversial. Like the rad and a pact. People see rad and pact as privatization. But when I was at the New York City Council, I was able to fly out to London and do some tours with their social housing out there with developers, and got a sense of what does it really mean to be able to have no displacement and have new construction and families moving out of an old building into a new building without the displacement that you saw in Prospect Plaza, right? Where the buildings were torn down. And out in London, they would build on the adjacent land. Once the building is fully completed, they then would move one for one families into the new building. Then they would tear down the old building. But it was only after the new building was completed. Then they would build on the build on the site that was torn down and do it all over again. Right? But and so that created this opportunity where families were able to see the new shiny building and move into it without any displacement. And so those types of ideas and concepts is what we brought back over to New York City and it's controversial right now, but that's that Fulton Elliott Chelsea model that we were trying to mimic from what we saw in London. And so there's a lot of pushback when it comes to RAD impact. But that right now, one of the few tools that you see in order to actually preserve and renovate the public housing stock that we're seeing today. And so that was from when I worked at NYCHA, when I got to city council, and when I got to HUD, there was the trust bill in the state that was a little different from the Rad Impact because this created a public entity and not quote unquote privatization. And so just my time spent looking for best practices and lessons learned around the country and bringing that back, those best practices back to New York City. I think that's one of the things that I'm most proud of. And pushing the public entity piece within the state legislature for the trust process is um something I'm proud of.

SPEAKER_04 36:48

I'm proud of you too. You worked across city, state, and federal. Where do you think real change happens the fastest?

SPEAKER_02 36:55

City, state, and federal. I would say change happens city.

SPEAKER_04 37:01

Yeah, they don't say local politics is local, right?

SPEAKER_02 37:05

You can move money and allocate money and see it quicker on a city level. But I truly believe the more seniority you have on a state level, the more juicy are. And you can see some things move on a state level too. Look, look, seriously, look at um One Brooklyn Health.

SPEAKER_04 37:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:24

Right?

SPEAKER_04 37:25

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 37:25

That was quick.

SPEAKER_04 37:26

Yeah. Well, you at the time you could do it. New York City Mayor Zoir Roman Damme has been pushing a rent freeze zone as part of his affordability agenda. And supporters say it could bring relief to struggling tenants, while critics argue it could hurt building owners and housing maintenance long-term. From your experience in housing policy and management, how realistic and sustainable is a rent freeze in a city like New York? Yes, city.

SPEAKER_02 37:59

So I, you know, although I do not want to at all opine on the rent freeze, because that's just not my role with the administration and the work that I do at HPD. I will say that I am um very excited about Maya Mamdani even saying that. I'm excited that he is worried about there's caring concern about the average New Yorker who cannot afford their rent.

SPEAKER_05 38:31

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 38:32

Like some people moved into these apartments and were barely making it and have seen their rent increase every single year, every other year. Or even if they haven't seen an increase, right? The fact that they are just struggling, paying, people not paying 30%. Some people are paying 40%, 50%, 60% in rent.

SPEAKER_05 38:55

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 38:55

And so um to have a mayor that is saying, wait a minute, we have to figure this out. That's what I'm excited about. Um, but I st but I truly believe that while we're also supporting tenants, we also have to figure out how we support the landlords who also have the same care and concern to have affordable housing units.

SPEAKER_04 39:19

You also worked at the U.S. Embassy in Ghana. How did that international experience shape your approach to community development? The motherland. My friend just moved out there.

SPEAKER_02 39:30

To Ghana? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:31

He called me, Boston detective, retired. He said, Brother, you gotta come home. So what are you talking about? He said, I left. No, he's in Joburg.

SPEAKER_02 39:40

Oh, okay, so in Joburgh. Okay. So when I moved to Ghana, West Africa, I'll just say this. So my role was to So how do you hold on?

SPEAKER_04 39:51

You just can't say that, like, just lay himself. How do you just be like, ah, I'm going to Ghana?

SPEAKER_02 39:56

How does that happen?

SPEAKER_04 39:58

You're in Brownsville all this time, and you just wake up and say, I'm going to Ghana?

SPEAKER_02 40:04

I did a I did a lot of things in my life. I just turned 50 last week.

SPEAKER_05 40:10

Congrats.

SPEAKER_02 40:11

So I had an amazing experience. I was able to leave Brownsville for college, and I went to North Carolina Ante State University, one of the best HBCUs. HBCU, yeah. And met my amazing husband. We've been married 26 years. And my husband is a U.S. diplomat. He's a member of the Foreign Service.

SPEAKER_05 40:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 40:32

Boy from South Carolina. And so he has an amazing career. He came in with Barack Obama and joined the Foreign Service, tap on the shoulder. And so he got an assignment to Ghana to serve as a in his role there. And I said, what would it look like for me to apply for a job with the State Department?

SPEAKER_04 40:54

Right.

SPEAKER_02 40:55

I actually didn't think I was going to get it, to be honest with you. From Brownsville. And I got it. And so I was able to move over to West Africa because my husband had an assignment. Right. And I got a job at the State Department. The job that I got, just so you can understand the dynamics, it was my role to complete the human rights report, the human trafficking report, and the international religious freedom report for the country and translate that back to Congress for them to make the decision if they were going to provide development funds, diplomatic funds to the country based on how they treat their citizens. So that was my role there. Pretty important. And so the reason why I mentioned that is because the work that I was doing was working with local leaders, even law enforcement, working with nonprofit or non-NGOs, non-governmental organizations who were applying for funds from the government to then support their constituents or support their citizens. And so it's no different from the work that I was doing in New York.

SPEAKER_05 42:06

Right.

SPEAKER_02 42:06

Right? Just on an international level. But that experience allowed me to see not just what the United States was doing locally, right? To how do you support your local organizations? But what are we doing globally?

SPEAKER_05 42:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:22

And it was an experience I needed to have because out there I was making sure that people had access to water, making sure that families had electricity, making sure that families had the resources to send their children to school. Get back to Brownsville. Do the families have access to clean water, running water in NYCHA?

SPEAKER_05 42:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:42

Do our families have electricity and power in the summertime? Right? When there's extreme heat and the elevators go out in those towers, right?

SPEAKER_04 42:52

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 42:53

That's electrical issues. So it was the same. It was the same.

SPEAKER_04 42:56

Listen, you are amazing. From NYCHA to HUD to HPD, you've seen housing from every angle. What's one misconception people have about public housing?

SPEAKER_02 43:09

One misconception?

SPEAKER_04 43:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 43:11

That is a bunch of people running around not working or you know or taking advantage of the system when I know personally that uh families that live in NYCHA developments are hard-working New Yorkers, some of the hardest working New Yorkers. And that's just a place for people to be able to afford to pay rent and have a stable home for their families.

SPEAKER_04 43:34

That's it. I have friends that live in in NYCHA. They're doing quite well, but they lived there their whole life.

SPEAKER_02 43:39

The rent is high out here. If rent is high.

SPEAKER_04 43:42

Oh, I know. You said something important, so I had to tap into that. You said one misconception about housing is there's a lot of crime. You're right. You touched on that. I was a commander of the most violent housing developments in New York City. And it's just like everywhere else, people don't understand. It's a small segment of people. That commits crime. So the only thing is it's localized, you know, because it's housing developments. It's not St. Albans, Queens, you know, spread out, you know, different blocks. But um, housing, it's really not a lot of crime in housing, especially now. You know, I still look at the numbers once in a while. But people that don't live in there, they swear by it. They swear, like, if I walk, Basic Projects is not fun. I walk over there, I'm gonna get robbed, raped, shot, killed, I'm not gonna pay you no money. I'm gonna pay you no money. I promise you. Oh man. You've always centered around community voices. How do you ensure residents are actually heard in decision making?

SPEAKER_02 44:48

So um, when you look at a lot of the the housing work that's being done now, like just the just like as like policy-wise, when you look at not just the New York City Housing Authority, but even within HPD, like our TIL programs, our ANCP programs, where we're preserving these old tenement buildings and working with families on renovating those buildings and then becoming co-ops, right? Even the Michelama developments, when it's an opportunity for them to come in and preserve and renovate those particular units, they do it where the residents, the shareholders, the board members are at the table. Nice. They're the ones that are determining what the unit should look like, the materials that should be used. And in a lot of cases, they're part of the selection team to determine who's a developer that's going to be coming into their buildings to do the renovation, to do the work. And so talk about lifting up and raising up voices, that's real policy changes because people didn't listen to residents before. They would just come in, bulldoze, do whatever they want. Right. But now, in order for anyone to get a deal with a city, you have to have a community-based organization as part of your team. You have to do community design meetings, you have to meet with the tenants and the residents and the community boards. You have to show proof of that. So I think because we have been talking about the need to raise the voices and include the voices of the residents, we're seeing that now.

SPEAKER_04 46:15

That's great. I know they don't want to talk to my girl Lisa Kenna over in Van Dyke. That's my doctor's.

SPEAKER_02 46:21

Shout out to Lisa Kenna. I love Lisa.

SPEAKER_04 46:24

She is no joke. She's in my documentary, actually. One of the people that's in my documentary. Brownsville has faced long-standing challenges. What changes have you seen and what still needs urgent attention?

SPEAKER_02 46:39

So the changes that I've seen, and some of the things that I did when I was when I was on the city council and even at HUD was activating a lot of those vacant lots. At one point I worked at the Brownsville Partnership with Chaco, and we we took the opportunity to go throughout Brownsville and identify the different lots and have these coffee clutches with communities to say what would you like to see happen on that particular block. And then fast forward, De Blasio came into office and he did the 100 days Brownsville with all the agencies, and that then um turned into the Brownsville plan. And the Brownsville plan included four massive lots across the district: Rockaway, Lafonia, Mother Gasson. And um those lots, they're now, as you can see, affordable housing buildings. One is being built now that will include a black box theater, like for the arts, right. Um, with local-based organizations that do dancing and just you know different um uh cultural arts programming. And then there's another one that's going to be a business hub, a business incubator. So all of the the lots are focused on what the community felt they wanted to see happen. And one thing that I'm really proud of is the old 73rd Precinct. It took a very long time. Dr. Edway owned that building for a very long time, and now we finally see that that is going to be affordable housing with a um uh like a health component built into the base of it, and they were able to utilize air rights from the Howard Houses right next to get more units on top. And so we needed to see intentional housing in Brownsville, but we also needed to see uh a lifting of the corridor along Pickin and Belmont. Right. And you're starting to see more attention and focus along those corridors, incentivizing the Pickin Avenue Bid, the Merchants Association along Belmont. And so I I think Brownsville used to be a destination attraction, right? And you're starting to see that come back where people are getting off the train in the bus and going to Brownsville because it's not that they live there, but they go in there to shop. Yeah, they're going there to be entertained.

SPEAKER_04 49:01

That's good. Let's keep it right. Do you think the system is built to truly fix housing inequality, or are we constantly playing catch-up?

SPEAKER_02 49:11

I think we're constantly playing catch up. I don't think the system is designed to really have a care and concern about black folk, black and brown folks, or low income families.

SPEAKER_04 49:23

I had a conversation with somebody, we talk about this all the time. He was like, America is worth like trillions, is this trillions of dollars running around America? Like, why is anybody hungry? Why is anybody looking for shelter?

SPEAKER_02 49:37

There is no reason why one of the richest nations in the world, one of the richest cities in the world, right? We have the UN, we have Wall Street, the stock exchange. We have it all, but yet we have so many families and children and babies in the shelter.

SPEAKER_04 49:54

It's insane to me.

SPEAKER_02 49:56

And so, but that is by design, right? It is by design. You can just look and see how the housing projects were designed, how they were built to just keep people um in a certain area. And even just down to the fact that the buildings weren't even facing the street, they were facing inward.

SPEAKER_05 50:14

Right?

SPEAKER_02 50:14

That is by design, and the fact that the same paint, the color and the smell is used in the prisons up north, yes, is by design.

SPEAKER_04 50:23

Oh man, if you had the power to change one thing about New York City housing overnight, what would it be?

SPEAKER_02 50:30

The affordability of it. If I could just change one thing, and it would be to make sure that everyone is able to live where they currently live, and they're able to pay a rent that is appropriate for the amount of money that they are bringing in to their household.

SPEAKER_04 50:47

Exactly. For the young people, especially those growing up in public housing who want to follow your path, what advice would you give them?

SPEAKER_02 50:56

To all the young people, the first thing I say is you were not placed on this earth for nothing. Like you have a purpose, you have a reason, and you're here because there's a God out there. Call them what you want to call them, but there's a God out here that has made a decision for you to be here. And you can do and be whatever you want to be if you just put in the hard work and just put blinders on. Literally, just put blinders on and just keep pushing and don't let anyone distract you.

SPEAKER_04 51:27

I love it. Before we wrap, is there anything you'd like to share that we haven't covered?

SPEAKER_02 51:32

I think we covered pretty much everything. But remember the J-Rip program?

SPEAKER_04 51:37

J-Rip? Yeah. I started J Rip. Did you know I started J-Rip? People, let's get it right. I started J-Rip. You know what that was called? Junior Robbery Intervention Program. I started it at PSA 2. I think I had a hundred, I might have had a hundred and five kids in the program. You know, it's been a while. Maybe 75 kids, but they were responsible for like 400 crimes. So in order to be in J Rip, you had to be a juvenile. You had to bend shot, shot at somebody, or had some robberies, right? And it was amazing that we had that program. So we put this whole program together with the cops. Like we was going doing Christmas presents, giving the families turkeys, going to the schools. If they had a PO meeting, we was going. One year later, the New York Times, y'all can Google J Rip New York Times. You know how many crimes those kids were responsible for? Zero. I don't remember the number, but it was, it was, it was less than like 20 or 10. Amazing when the police put resources together because some of them kids, the families, they were just asking for help. They just needed a little help. You remember J Rip.

SPEAKER_02 52:59

So I remember it. I remember it so much where when I got to the council, I did everything I could to replicate that because Glassberg had left and um Jaffe had left, you know, like everybody left. And it's but and so, but it was a real program that made a difference, focused on the families, those young people who lived in NYCHA. Yes. And the jobs that we were able, we actually hired them to run the youth markets along Livonia and Rockaway. Yeah. And the difference that that program made with those children who lived in public housing. Like stereotypes exist, but when you put programs and resources that make a difference, you see the changes that really need to be made.

SPEAKER_04 53:44

It was so successful for me when I would became the commanding officer of the 67th priest. Within a week, I started a J-Rip team.

SPEAKER_02 53:52

Oh, I didn't know that. Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 53:56

Nobody knew about it. The chief, nobody, but I knew I had to keep crime down at each flat bush. And I said, I was successful with this. This is the model. And I don't know why it didn't go citywide.

SPEAKER_02 54:10

We know why it didn't. Because it was a successful program. That was just to your point about it.

SPEAKER_04 54:15

I love it. I love it. That was good. Thank you. See, once in a while on Corbish Corner, y'all see I did some really good things. Okay. You know I started God Squad too, right?

SPEAKER_02 54:27

I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_04 54:28

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 54:30

I didn't know you started God Squad. I didn't. I'm the one.

SPEAKER_04 54:32

You think those pastors started?

SPEAKER_02 54:34

I mean, I know they didn't, but I didn't know.

SPEAKER_04 54:36

You couldn't put nothing together. Pastor Moreau's coming out here soon. He was the first leader of a God Squad. So I was getting so many robberies and stuff with kids. I said, I need help. And so I brought all the pastors, all different denominations, Catholics, priests, I told my community fed, bring every one of them in here. I said, I had a meeting. I said, I need your help. And we started the God squad. I said, I'll give y'all jackets. I go into the blue tape, yellow tape, you go into the tape. I said, but I need y'all to do, I need you to do the funerals for these kids that's getting killed. You better not charge them no money. If somebody gets shot, I need you to come to the scene. I need you to pray with that family. We see what resources we could give those families to hold on. Eric Garnes, Munro's, all of them. Reverend Al Cockville, he'll tell you, they'll all tell you. They might not say it publicly, but they just actually gave me an award.

SPEAKER_05 55:29

Look at that, look at that, look at that.

SPEAKER_04 55:31

Yeah. I did a lot. I actually was the one who started the gun buyback program. Oh, I got a lot of stuff I started in the NYPD that I don't get credit for. Because they used to say, bring a gun to the precinct and we give you $200. And I was like, nobody's gonna believe this. I said, we're gonna start this over. Jeff Madge, myself, and Inspector Barrera from the 7-5 had a meeting with Congressman Ed Towns. And I said, this is what we should do. You want to bring a gun in? Let's do it at a church. We're gonna do it at a church, soft clothes, no uniforms. Bring the gun in, no questions asked. I don't care if it got 10 bodies on it. You gotta be transparent. We're not locked them up. Detectives gotta solve crimes. We just gotta get that gun. They did the first one. It was so successful. I saw Ray Kelly, police commissioner Ray Kelly, a week before we even did it. He said, I had a meeting with Ed Towns and he told me this idea that you want to do taking these guns to the church. I said, Yeah. He said, if it works, I'm taking the idea. If it don't, I'm gonna kill you. I was like, God, please let this work. He's gonna ruin my career. But enough about me. But I'm glad you got me to put all of those things on camera so people can see. Electronic footprint never goes away. Alika, thank you for pulling up and taking the seat on Corby's corner. Thank you for coming through and keeping it honest with us. Very honest. These are the conversations we need, right conversations that matter because housing isn't just policy, it's people, it's families, and the future for generations to come. I love you, sis. Thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule to come pull up a seat on Corey's Corner. I really appreciate you. You always have a seat here. Thank you for all the work that you're doing and your husband. I love you. That's what it is. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. Okay. For our listeners, if you found value in today's episode, make sure you follow, subscribe, and support. This has been another episode of Corey's Corner. Until next time, keep pushing, keep grinding, and always remember it's not about where you start, it's always about where you finish. I'm Corey Pigis, and I always keep it right, not real.

SPEAKER_03 57:47

Peace. Special thanks to our executive producer, our engineers, and much respect to corrupt mob for making Corey's Corner possible.

SPEAKER_00 57:55

Wants a cop, let it knock, yeah. I forgot that we can celebrate with death instead of condemning it.