The Truth About Illegal Vapes in America | Two Law Enforcement Experts Explain the Public Safety Crisis.

For decades, Wayne Preston Harris and Elliot T. Boyce, Sr. dedicated their careers to protecting communities, building trust, and leading within law enforcement. Combined, they bring more than 70 years of public safety experience to one of today’s most controversial public policy issues, the rise of illegal and unauthorized vaping products in America.

In this special episode of Corey’s Corner, retired Rochester Police Deputy Chief Wayne Preston Harris and retired New York State Trooper Elliot T. Boyce, Sr. sits down with host retired NYPD Executive Corey Pegues to discuss the growing illicit vape market, the challenges facing law enforcement, youth access, organized crime, consumer safety, and why distinguishing between FDA-authorized products and illegal products matters.

Whether you’re a policymaker, law enforcement professional, parent, educator, retailer, or simply interested in understanding the vaping debate, this episode provides a thoughtful discussion from two respected leaders who have spent their careers protecting the public.

Subscribe to Corey’s Corner for in-depth conversations with leaders shaping today’s biggest issues.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

What's the kid? Let it die. I put my celebrate death, damn it.

SPEAKER_06 0:10

Pull up a seat. You're now in Corey's Corner, where white conversations matter. I'm your host, Corey Pegis, and I always keep it right, not real. Today we're honored to be joined by two distinguished leaders whose combined experience represents more than seven decades of service in law enforcement, community engagement, and public leadership. First, Wayne Preston Harris, a retired Rochester Police Department executive whose career spanned more than 30 years, rising from youth outreach worker to deputy chief of community relations and engagement. Throughout his career, he championed accountability, community policing, and authored Rochester's Blueprint for Engagement, a roadmap for strengthening trust between law enforcement and the communities they serve. Joining him is Elliot T. Boyce Sr., a retired New York State trooper with over 35 years of service, who concluded his career as director of the Employee Assistant Program. A passionate advocate for officer wellness, mental health, and community empowerment, Elliott continues his service today as founder of the Blue Foundation and a leader in numerous civic and nonprofit organizations. Together, these two respective voices bring a wealth of knowledge on police and accountability, leadership, community trust, and the future of public safety in America. Please join me in welcoming my two good friends, Wayne Preston Harris and Elliot T. Boyce to Corby's Corner. Thanks for coming, fellas.

SPEAKER_04 1:42

Thanks for having us. Absolutely. Thank you for having us.

SPEAKER_06 1:44

Finally made it. Yes, sir. Traveled pretty far, audience. So listen, wherever you are in America, you could pop into Corby's Corner. It don't matter, it's just a train ride or a plane ride. Today's episode is sponsored by Diverse Perspectives, which is a law enforcement consultant company. Shout out to Corrupt Mob MC, a brotherhood built on loyalty, respect, and community. More than the motorcycle club, respect the mob. Okay, let's get into it. Wayne, we're gonna start with you.

SPEAKER_07 2:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 2:13

Your journey started long before the police academy with the Salvation Army, youth mentorship, and community work. How did those early experiences shape the type of police officer and leader you ultimately became?

SPEAKER_03 2:25

It's actually how I got into the law enforcement game in the first place. Throughout my career with um with the Salvation Army, I developed a skill set of dealing and speaking with youth. And after I, you know, kept going back and working at some of their summer camps, eventually I moved back to Rochester, and Rochester had a need working with youth gangs. And I was it was tailor-made for me. So I stepped right into it.

SPEAKER_06 2:51

Okay. You spent years investigating allegations of police misconduct and professional standards. So like internal affairs of um police, right?

SPEAKER_01 3:01

Correct.

SPEAKER_06 3:01

Um what did that experience teach you about accountability and why do you believe accountability must apply equally to both law enforcement and a community state style?

SPEAKER_03 3:12

Because we get our authority to do what we have to do out in the streets from our community, from our neighbors, the people that we, you know, live among and and work with all the time. And what I learned from working in internal affairs or professional standards was the humanity of policing. It's one thing to investigate misconduct on a police officer's part, but if you lose sight of the fact that these are human beings that you're investigating with the same kind of struggle that you and I may have, and and the same kind of home environments that you and I may have. Um if you lose sight of that, then you tend to go in the wrong direction and you start working just to get people into trouble. So by recognizing the humanity of it, recognizing the the stakes that are involved, you do the job right. That's what it taught me.

SPEAKER_06 3:59

Okay. As Deputy Chief of Community Relations Engagement, you authored Rochester's Blueprint for Engagement. Looking at policing today, what are the biggest obstacles preventing police departments and communities from building genuine trust?

SPEAKER_03 4:15

Oh, bad policy is one. Bad policy will destroy the trust in the community faster than anything else I know. Training, if training isn't complete or all-encompassing, if it doesn't take into consideration all aspects of the community and all aspects of the law enforcement industry, then problems begin to occur. And it also boils down to supervision. Um if I'm a deputy chief of police and I tell my supervisors that this is the environment that I want to establish, these are my expectations, and then my supervisors fail to meet that and fail to instill that in my officers, then again problems begin. So I mean it's it's important for us always to look at the bigger picture.

SPEAKER_06 5:03

Which is a harmonious relationship between the community and the police.

SPEAKER_03 5:07

It has to be.

SPEAKER_06 5:08

You've led officers in patrol, investigations, administration, and community engagement. When public confidence and policing is low, what separates effective police leadership from ineffective leadership?

SPEAKER_03 5:20

Uh ineffective police leadership is when we stop listening to the community. When we think we know best, when we just go out and do what we feel we need to do without considering um what the community wants and how the community feels.

SPEAKER_06 5:34

Absolutely. Absolutely. Last one. After more than 30 years in law enforcement, well, you you've been doing a lot more after 30 years.

SPEAKER_03 5:43

Yeah, I guess I'm still in the game. He's still in the game.

SPEAKER_06 5:46

I mean, being executive director for Leap is like a big deal, okay? Um, and now viewing the profession from the outside, what reforms or changes do you believe are most critical for the future of policing in America while still maintaining public safety?

SPEAKER_03 6:04

So we need to embrace the collaborative effort, the the need for collaboration between the law enforcement and the communities that we serve. I mean, it's it's one thing to to rely on technology or to look at new technology as it comes out and to make sure we're up to date on all the latest bells and whistles and stuff like that. But at the end of the game, policing is a communication. Policing is me getting to know the people that are living in the area that I represent or the area that I serve. And if I can't get to know them, if I can't build strategies with them, then I can't do my job.

SPEAKER_06 6:41

So, America, around the world, you hear what the deputy chief said. AI is never going to replace gumshoe police work, right?

SPEAKER_05 6:50

Never.

SPEAKER_06 6:50

And we're talking about this is just a police little lingo. We're talking about knocking on doors, walking old ladies across the street, kissing babies, and just creating relationships.

SPEAKER_07 7:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 7:03

AI could never fix that. We got all the bells and whistles, toys, robots, but uh, when you had that relationship with Raheem at two in the morning, is a shooting, he's calling you, you're saying, Yo, Chief, Michael did it. Yep. He's never gonna replace that. Elegate, you spent more than 35 years, looking like you're 39 right now, with New York State police and retired as director of employee assistant program. Looking back, what experiences most shaped your philosophy of leadership and public safety?

SPEAKER_04 7:35

I think the things that shaped it the most was staying connected, like Wayne said. You know, I think many of the challenges we have in policing is lack of exposure. And the thing for me that was really important is to be exposed to multiple different things, communities, uh, cultures. And based on that, I was able to serve the communities better, serve the members of state police better, and to be a better role model within the field of the New York State Police and the community. You know, so my engagement was balanced not only with being a police officer, being a parent, being a community person, and also being involved in multiple organizations that really were geared towards policing. And a lot of them had to do with black organizations. Because if we don't lead the way as black men in policing, we will have a struggle waiting for somebody else to do it. So that was the way I tailored my way to being a leader.

SPEAKER_06 8:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:29

And that helped me get through 35 years or so.

SPEAKER_06 8:32

Right. And for the first time on Corey's Corner, you heard a state trooper call himself a police officer. I need to battle. I need to battle for like some of these good moments here. Now, mental health has become one of the major issues in America. During your time leading the employee assistant program, what did you learn about the hidden emotional psychological challenges officers face and how has the profession evolved in addressing them?

SPEAKER_04 9:02

See, that's the key word in there is hidden, right? As a law enforcement officer, you don't ever want to show weakness.

unknown 9:07

Right?

SPEAKER_04 9:08

You don't want to show it to your community, you don't want to show it to your subordinates, you don't want to show it to your agency. The problem with that is we have a lot of broken officers that are trying to hide their emotions, trying to hide their dark moments. You know, police officers see the darkest, dirtiest things in life. Right? You can't imagine a day of a police officer. Uh particularly someone who might work in the city who's going to call a call, might go from a crash, go to a baby death, go to a drowning, all in one day, and then they gotta go home and pull that back. So the thing that has evolved and changed, what I'm seeing is uh the days in which police officers have shied away from getting help due to job jeopardy has changed. And what I mean by job jeopardy, usually most police officers won't ask for help until they're in trouble. Right. About to lose their job, so now they have to go to counseling. What we're seeing now is there's a more of an open-door approach with better counseling services, better uh things that are being provided for them. Like you could do telecounseling now, you don't have to worry about the embarrassment of walking through a door and getting counseling. So we're seeing the big change is that people are asking for help. And we're also seeing some of the newer officers are coming in with their own counselors they may have had since high school, which gives us a better foundation for policing moving forward. Because we can't have broken police officers going out there to help people.

SPEAKER_06 10:28

And the ironic thing is in our career, many broken cops out there with guns because nobody wants to ask for help. You know, you feel the shame. I ain't asking for help. It it's twofold, right?

SPEAKER_04 10:42

So shame and is the mindset that, you know, in policing, you have to pass the psychological.

SPEAKER_05 10:48

Right.

SPEAKER_04 10:48

Right? So if you go in and ask for help and you get the wrong uh supervisor, then they blow the whistle and basically now you lose your your gun, which means you lose your opportunity to work. So if you're not mentally stable, they take your weapon away. Which, if that is the case, they should. But individuals that don't understand that somebody's just going through a moment and it's not a crisis, there's a difference. And I believe because there's a concern where, you know, in many cases, old school police officers, like, oh, no one asks for help, you know, go out there and do the job, dust yourself off and go. Well, that's changed. You know, um, dusting yourself and go is not always the right thing to do. Taking some time out, reflecting, spending time with family is a lot better. And in this day and age, I see it getting a lot better. In New York State Police Employee Assistance Program, uh, they do God's work in the sense of responding and helping people. I've had opportunities there with NYPD's Employee Assistance Program, the same thing. The more help that's available for police officers, the less likely we're gonna see mistakes. And when we make a mistake, it could cost somebody a life.

SPEAKER_06 11:56

Absolutely. As black law enforcement trooper, you've had a unique responsibility of navigating both the expectations of the profession and the concerns of community of color. How did you balance those perspectives and what lessons can today's leaders learn from your experience?

SPEAKER_04 12:13

I feel like staying engaged is staying myself. Right now, what I mean by staying myself is the culture of policing is overwhelming. You get in and the ideas you're supposed to follow along with what everyone else does.

SPEAKER_07 12:28

Not me.

SPEAKER_04 12:29

Not me. Right away. Right? And and what I mean by following the culture, if you follow along, then you'll co-sign on dumb things. Exactly and co-signing on dumb things is not necessarily by participating. Co-signing on dumb things is laughing and someone saying, Oh, I I gave that extra shot.

SPEAKER_06 12:46

Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 12:47

Right.

SPEAKER_06 12:47

So for me The black and white jokes.

SPEAKER_04 12:50

The black and white jokes, um, the extra hit. Um, can you believe how I turned that drawer over in that particular house compared to this house, right? So as you engage in it, if you participate, you co-sign. The idea is to create a reputation where you know better.

SPEAKER_06 13:10

Right.

SPEAKER_04 13:10

You know when Elliot's in the room, you better not do it.

SPEAKER_06 13:13

Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 13:13

You know when Corey's in the room, you better not say that. Right? Because that diffuses and breaks the chain of stupidity. For me, being exposed to a variety of police officers, like I'm in Syracuse, New York, I've known Corey for over 20, 25 years, if not longer. That was engaged by us being part of Noble.

SPEAKER_05 13:32

Right.

SPEAKER_04 13:33

Right? Part of the Black State Troopers Coalition, which I haven't failed to mention. I was recently appointed their executive director of the National State, Black State Troopers Coalition. Congratulations. We're going to build a network to make them stronger and better because we are losing police officers. But being involved, being engaged, being exposed, uh, making sure I stayed my unique self, help my leadership because people knew I wasn't going to bend. They knew I was going to stay true to who I was and I was going to be fair to everyone, right? And that was my expectation of everyone I work with.

SPEAKER_03 14:08

And the the system is is messed up too. If I could just interject one thing, because I I couldn't help but think about this. But you know, you go through the academy and they they preach a whole lot of stuff to you and they tell you how you're supposed to be uh out there on the streets, and they say if you see an officer doing something wrong to stop them because it can make everything better. But that's not once you get out into the street, and you get your FTO, and your FTO tells you, forget all that stuff you learned in the academy. This is how we do this job, kid. And it sets up a dynamic that is very, very difficult to meet.

SPEAKER_06 14:39

It is. I remember I can't forget my first arrest. Little BS arrest. Kid stole a bike. I might have two, three months or two weeks on the job. Very, very early. So I call for backup, you know, because I'm on foot patrol. I need a call to transport. Guy sitting on the curb, he's cuffed. Sergeant comes to two cops, so the two cops go to get him. All of a sudden they beat him up. And I'm like, yo. I told the sergeant, I'm like, yo. That ain't my arrest. Yo, so I'm just like this really brash rookie. And the sergeant's looking up. I said, yo, that ain't my arrest. And if it just happened again, I'm calling an internal affair. So that's very early on. I said the tone, like, nah, don't do that shit in front of me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:22

You know, people, police officers are mostly male dominated, even though we know probably next 10, 15 years it could be female dominating, right? But men think a base, don't think about their money, right? And when it comes to money, that's overwhelming. Because when you have individuals who are working on overtime, they got a boat, they got a house, they got a car, you know, they don't want to say anything that may get them alienated. They want that that overtime anymore. So that's part of that police culture where you will see people making mistakes or saying less, because in their mind, if I say something, you know, I might not get paid or I might get suspended. Right. Well my thought was if you don't say anything, I might lose my house, my boat, or my car. Because policing has changed.

SPEAKER_06 16:08

Absolutely. Since retirement, you focused on nonprofit work through the Blue Foundation and community advocacy. What inspired you to continue serving in this capacity, and what impact do you hope to leave for the next generation of officers?

SPEAKER_04 16:24

Look, I was a I'm a Brooklyn kid, grew up with Cannarsi, subsequently made it upstate. But I never forget the work my mother used to do. Miss Rose, may she rest in peace. My mother would take a group of kids to Coney Island, take us on road trips, and we didn't have a lot, right? And it was days at least two times we would come outside and the car was stolen. And mom would be like, hold on one second, I'll be right back. She's gonna rent a car. So the way she engaged with the community, the kids, Ms. Rose, the free lunch program. I, you know, that's where I'm rooted. So now I'm upstate. Um I'm seeing some voids. So I created Blue Foundation, BLU Foundation, and the idea is just to give back, find a way to give back. So I recently did something for Clary Middle School. Shout out to Clary and Terry Flanari. They did an HBCU tour, and what I did is I sponsored the bags. So I put together bags with their logo on it, the schools they were going to, filled it with food, ran coats, first aid kids, things along that line. Somebody came to me recently also, one of the things we did was a diaper drive, you know, identified 19 girls in the city of Syracuse School District, got funds for diapers, and pretty much was able to supply them with diapers for the rest of the year. So it's a big deal. Diapers is a big deal. And you know, I was surprised on how many kids really benefited from it, and they were very thankful. And now I'm putting together 12 bags and was going to give 12 high school seniors going to uh various schools across New York State and out of the country, particularly HPCU focused, because I think a lot of the kids in upstate New York don't have that opportunity to understand what HBCU is. Right. Uh, shout out to Divine Organizations. I knew you were sliding divine in. You gotta throw that in the world.

SPEAKER_06 18:09

I already knew he was gonna throw that in.

SPEAKER_04 18:11

But, you know, as as I say Five Beta Sigment Fraternity Incorporated, with Satify Beta, sorority incorporated out, constituency bound source, uh, all the divine organizations are doing amazing things, right? So though we uniquely speak about each other on our own, right, collectively, there's a lot of powerful work being done across the country. And I want to make sure that if there's a change in which, through my foundation, I can help a kid, we'll get it done.

SPEAKER_06 18:37

That's good. Well, I'm proud to announce that my son just graduated from high school. He's going to Delaware State University. Nice. Congratulations. I really was trying to get him to go to Bowie, but he's No, it's not bad. My granddaughter goes there.

SPEAKER_04 18:49

So Delaware's a good school.

SPEAKER_06 18:50

So now that we got all of the police and stuff out, let's get to why I really brought y'all here. There's a serious issue in America. Both of you have dedicated your careers to protecting communities, promoting accountability, and helping people make informed decisions. Today, a growing concern involves the explosion of illegal vaping products entering the market and challenges they create for consumers, regulators, and law enforcement alike. As consultants, let me back up. So just a disclaimer Elliot, Wayne, and myself, consultants, and we travel the country talking about vaping, uh, cigarettes and stuff. I have to put that out there because some people are gonna know that I do this with y'all. So I just gotta put this out there for the people that don't know us. I travel the country with these very highly educated, distinguished gentlemen, and we talk about this. But today I'm in a host seat, so I'm just doing hosting. And y'all are gonna give out the information, okay? So as consultants who have studied these issues closely, I like to spend the rest of the conversation discussing the realities of illegal vape market, its impact on communities, and what solutions may exist moving forward. Okay? Let's start with the big picture. From your experience in law enforcement and public safety, how serious is the problem of illegal and unregulated vaping products in the United States today, and why should the average consumer care? Either one of you or both.

SPEAKER_04 20:24

I'll give you this. I I just talked about a few minutes ago my HPCU bag giveaway for the kids. When I arrived that day with the bags that give them, the kids had to go through a metal detector. And as I'm looking at, I said, well, why do they have to go through the metal detector? And the person who was in charge of the program said they have to go through the metal detector so they don't get on the bus with any weapons. And she said, These are seventh, eighth graders. They're not getting on the bus with any weapons. They probably got a greater chance they're gonna be on the bus with vapes. And I looked at it, I said, What? I said, these are seventh graders. She says, I have sixth graders that are vaping. And I said, How? And she said, that is the problem. Weapons are no longer a problem in school is vapes. So when I talk about community engagement, we have to start educating at the sixth grade level and up about these illicit vapes, unregulated vapes. And why it's important is because it's something that's going on under the radar in which people are talking about it in silos. And it can no longer be in silos. It has to be talked about and screamed from the highest mountain that vaping, illicit vapes, particularly vapes that are coming from out of the country, are happening in our schools. And there's not a school administrator in this country will not stand up and say, We have a problem.

SPEAKER_06 21:42

It's funny you say that because, and I let you get in the way. I was at my son's school and I went to the bathroom, and it was like three kids vaping. You do know I'm a snitch, right? Y'all know I'm a snitch, right? I came out and I grabbed, like the dean is like Mr. Reno, and I I just couldn't hold it. I was like, Mr. Reno, this kid's vaping. He's like, wait, he pulls his cell phone out. Let him go to this private school. He pulls his cell phone. I didn't even know it was like cameras all over the school. He goes, Whoo, whoo, which kids? I'm like, oh, it's those two right there. It's those two right there. I stitched on them, but then I felt bad then. Yeah, but you shouldn't though. Well, Wayne, listen. Yeah. From your experience, how accurate is the claim? And Elliot touched on it, that illegal vapes now dominate the market.

SPEAKER_03 22:25

They do.

SPEAKER_06 22:25

So what did you see on the ground working? Did you see this when you were working?

SPEAKER_03 22:30

No, honestly, when I was working, I would go into small convenience stores and I would see the vaping products up on the shelf. And then I didn't know what I know now. Okay. So what I didn't know is that there are only 41, 42 actually registered, authorized.

SPEAKER_06 22:48

I need you to look in the camera and tell people that. Because people don't understand and let them know what that means. Okay. And who registered? Where they get the registration from.

SPEAKER_03 22:57

Let me tell you a couple of things. First, you know, the first question you asked was how big a problem is this. The problem is actually huge. And I'm glad Elliot brought up the fact that there are youth that are doing this more than anything. Sixth graders. Yeah. I I did a program in Buffalo. Shout out to uh Reverend Michael Bell in Buffalo for bringing me out there and having me sit down with a group of other ministers in the area and some school officials in the area. Their primary concern was the fact that these stores are in walking distance in close proximity to these schools, and these kids are going in there at sixth grade, at seventh grade, buying these things and using them on a daily basis. And to Elliot's point, they're not concerned with the weapons. They are concerned with the health factors that these kids are exposing themselves to.

SPEAKER_06 23:40

Now, I want you to touch on how many legal vapes are there in America legal.

SPEAKER_03 23:48

The FDA has authorized between 41 and 42 products to be sold legally on the market here in the United States. Now, if you go into any of these stores and you see shelves full of them, the majority of those that are being sold are not registered by the FDA. They're not authorized to be sold in the United States. And the the biggest problem is that we don't know what's in them. Now, if these products are coming from China, if they're coming from Central America, if they're coming from anywhere around the world where substances are being placed in there, chemicals are being placed into these things that we don't know about, the health risk, the dangers involved in that far exceed combustible products. Now, I have to put a disclaimer out. I don't smoke cigarettes. I've never smoked cigarettes. I've lost family members to smoking cigarettes. So I don't I don't endorse it, I don't condone it. You know, I'm here as a police officer to talk about the fact that these illicit products are hitting our streets, and as they're sold either in a convenience store or out on the block in front of Ms. Pegee's house, you know, those are criminals that are shipped for you. But but but the fact remains, you know, we have, you know, when you prohibit a substance, just like back in the 20s when they prohibited alcohol, if you prohibit a substance, organized crime takes over. People are going to figure out a way to get their hands on what they want.

SPEAKER_06 25:21

Prohibition doesn't work.

SPEAKER_03 25:23

Prohibition does not work. It's never worked. All it's ever done is created organized.

SPEAKER_06 25:27

Elliot, can you walk us through what these illegal supply chains actually look like from overseas manufacturing to United States streets?

SPEAKER_04 25:35

Yeah. What they look like is a nine billion dollar industry. Nine billion dollars. Will it be? What it be?

SPEAKER_06 25:44

Damn.

SPEAKER_04 25:44

Capital B. Capital B. And what people don't realize, they're coming over in craters, cargo ships. And there was a recent report, I think it was in 2025, and they talked about China, who's the number one supplier of not only illicit vapes, but also vape parts. They shipped something like $3.6 million worth of vapes in a time span, right? It was six months or whatever it was. Out of that 3.6, which they reported left the ports of China, only $333 million worth of those vapes made it to the United States thousand. So the discrepancy from the $3.6 million that left in value to the $333,000 that made it here is a problem. The rest of that went to the illicit market. So you have to understand China, and you can't even buy it in China. That's that's even America, understand this. Everybody listen to Corey's Corner. Vapes in China are illegal, but they will ship on a monthly basis in excess of millions of dollars to the U.S. And that million is a dollar's worth don't hit our ports. They go submerged to the black market instantly. So that's what it looks like coming over. But the thing that's most dangerous, it's not necessarily the black market that comes over in the big crates. It's the ones that hit the streets, and you have that young individual who's 18 and 19 think they can make a quick buck, so they buy a boatload, and then they start selling them to the young kids in the community. The older brother that doesn't think there's anything wrong with it, and now he's giving it to his younger brother because he thinks it's okay. So when we think about trafficking on a large scale, that is a problem. But when we talk about communities itself where we're engaged, and we talk about the young adults, we're trying to protect the trafficking is less, right? It's on a smaller scale. It's that guy who has the trunk, it's the people who have the stores. And now, so we make it clear. I don't smoke, I don't vape, I don't endorse it just like Wayne. Corey said, Prohibition doesn't work. Be careful. When you when you ban it, it goes straight to the streets. When you overtax it, it goes straight to the streets. And what you have to understand, when it goes straight to the streets, it becomes a problem because it becomes part of the increasing black market. And it just goes on the pile. When you do a raid, it's coat, crack, guns, vapes, right? That's right. It just enhances people's ability to supply other illegal markets.

SPEAKER_06 28:25

Well, I'm glad you said that, because Wayne, how often are vape trafficking networks tied to other criminal activity like drug trafficking and organized crime?

SPEAKER_03 28:35

Always. It's a strategy that organized crime is using right now. It's a strategy that terrorist organizations are using right now.

SPEAKER_06 28:41

So you're telling me that organized crime and drug cartels, they'll rather sell vapes than drugs now?

SPEAKER_03 28:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 28:48

Because selling vapes, you won't go to jail. You won't go to jail.

SPEAKER_03 28:52

You'll get perhaps a fine. You know, but they're generating millions of dollars. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 29:00

People have to understand this is a sophisticated market, right? What surprised you most about how sophisticated these operations have become?

SPEAKER_04 29:08

Uh, very sophisticated, very smart. I had an individual tell me about a case in upstate New York, and people may think it's minor, but it's huge. What they found that in this rural community, because what we gotta understand, vapes is cross-ending, right? This is one thing that every community is being impacted by. Right. So we can't take the focus off of the fact that it's in the inner city and not the cow, you know, in the suburbs or in the in the country. But this guy was telling me like what he would do, who was individuals who were selling vapes, the elicit vapes. He basically had um young girls will come in and he said, I'll give you the vapes for free if you let me use your ID. And I was like, What does that mean? He said, Yeah, they were using their ID to ship the money via Western Union overseas back home to their families, right? Which in many cases either could be a family or to the cartels. Right? Now, again, speculation, but we're talking about criminal enterprise, large amount of money, you're trying to hide it. There's a reason why you're trying to hide it. You try to hide it because you don't want people to know where it's going. So they use these young girls. Uh so that's part of the sophistication. I think the underground markets, uh, in the sense of how they hide them, they know that, you know, when we talk about not go to jail, Wayne just mentioned not going to jail. Uh, people have to understand criminal and civil, right? Criminal is when you go to jail, if there's a criminal charge. Civil is basically where they hit you with a fine. So they come in and raid the shops. Well, if I'm a person that's selling illicit vapes, I have five licenses, four stores in business sitting. I use one. I'm making $10,000 a week or whatever the number is, they raid me. They raid me, they take all the stuff out of my store, and then they fine me $500. The big thing, the biggest hit is not that they took my product, the biggest hit is if they take my store, the name. But if they take the name, I close down, I call Wayne, open up under this name, and I'm right back in business the next day. So we have to do a better job. You know, when we talk about county relations, relations with law enforcement, tax codes, and doing things as far as getting things taken care of. So that's how sophisticated they are. They know they have a license waiting, they know they have another person to bring that license in, uh, and they know the fact that that money's gonna keep rolling in as long as they can stay open.

SPEAKER_06 31:29

When demand for alternatives like vaping wasn't met legally, what did that create from an enforcement standpoint?

SPEAKER_03 31:38

When the demand of it wasn't met legally, it generated the organized crime that we're talking about. So the increase in in focus that law enforcement has to put forth just multiplies tremendously. Here's the other thing, too. So because it's unregulated and because this borders on the public health domain, you know, law enforcement catches the brunt of it because it's happening out there on the streets, the illicit side of it. But those, you know, people higher up, they are of the opinion that because it's a public health thing, the health department can be the ones to enforce all this.

SPEAKER_06 32:18

But they don't have the manpower.

SPEAKER_03 32:19

They don't have the manpower, and quite honestly, neither do law enforcement uh uh agencies in the country. Now that's we gotta we gotta chase down gangs, we gotta chase down the game.

SPEAKER_06 32:28

I was just gonna raise saying that we've been all over the country.

SPEAKER_03 32:31

Yep.

SPEAKER_06 32:32

Now we've been to all these police conferences with police chiefs and commissioners from all over mayors, mayors' conferences, and we asked them the question about this, and they're all looking at us like we're freaking crazy.

SPEAKER_05 32:45

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 32:46

Yeah, they don't even have a clue what's going on. I remember I forget me and you were talking to some mayor, I think from Atlanta, Stone Mountain. I think she was from Stone Mountain, the mayor. Yeah. And uh she said, yeah, they yeah, they opened up two new vape stores in my businesses are doing pretty good.

SPEAKER_03 33:02

The reality is the the sheriffs, they don't know. The police chiefs, they don't know. None of them, that's why we're doing what we're doing, going around the country telling all these people, because most of the chiefs of police, most of the mayors, most of the the city councilmen or the take uh the state council people, um, they don't know. They don't understand the fact that most of the stuff that's being sold in these stores is illegal.

SPEAKER_06 33:27

One of our former colleagues who's just left as sheriff of New York City, Tony Maviranda, yeah, he took what? Maybe hundreds of thousands of vapes off the streets. Off the streets of New York City. He made it a mission.

SPEAKER_03 33:42

And it didn't even make it dent.

SPEAKER_06 33:44

Didn't make it dent.

SPEAKER_03 33:45

Did it? So out of the 41, there are thousands of others that are being sold in these stores.

SPEAKER_06 33:50

Right. Thousands. And that's what I mean, that's what I really want y'all to bring that point home to the people. That's your camera. Um 41 legal vapes in America. And you go into a store that's 500 different vapes. Right. All right, tell the people how they can find out which vapes are legal. Vape registry?

SPEAKER_04 34:13

Yeah. Look, whatever state you're in, there should be a vape registry. And a vape registry basically gives you a detail of which products are regulated, right? That have been approved by the FDA. Right? And for the most part, we're talking about tobacco harm reduction. We're not talking about kids, right? So there's no confusion. Because this is going to be someone who's going to put something in the comment. Oh, they're pushing this poison for kids.

SPEAKER_06 34:34

No.

SPEAKER_04 34:34

Absolutely not. This is not about kids. This is about understanding what the consequences are, the unintended consequences for taking harsh actions, right? So overtaxing pushes it to the streets, right? Not being aware what's on the vape registry. When I talk about being aware of the vape registry, they're the ones that have been regulated. So if you go into a store and you have the list of regulated products, you can look and go, this one, this one, this one, this one is okay. The rest of these are not. And that's really important, particularly for all adults that are on the phone, all parents that are on the phone, on the call. Because if you now walk into your room and you see your kid with a particular vape product, particularly anything that's a disposable, disposable on it, it's probably unregulated. The big concern of unregulated for anybody, because we have police officers that are vaping, they don't know. They vaping on duty. They vaping on duty, and they may be vaping something that's unregulated. And the reason why it's important, because you do not know what's in it. You do not know what the combination may end up at the end once you light it or once it is sparked with inside that unit. So it's really important to push vape registries. It's really important to make sure that you have a clear understanding of what you what your kids are doing, right? And or even your adults, right? And and I just gotta go back to one other point, real quick. We will have people that will get on the comments and say, oh, they're pushing vapes. But you gotta understand this, and they'll say, here's the classic. But all these vape stores are around the schools, right? It'll be elected officials, you'll have community leaders say around the school. As soon as they say it's around the school, find out where the local grocery store is. Because I guarantee you, in many cases, particularly stores that provide other products like milk, juice, and grow and fruits, this is a food desert. And these stores are serving a different need. So one of the ways you can shortcut that is by making sure there's not a food desert in those communities.

SPEAKER_05 36:42

Right.

SPEAKER_04 36:43

But no one wants to talk about that. They'll say the vape store in the corner.

SPEAKER_05 36:47

Right.

SPEAKER_04 36:47

And we have to get past that because not get past it, we have to understand one serves the other. And continuing to give licensing, that's the first part. If you have 10 or 20 in a two-block, two mile radius, that's a problem. Stop taking that 100 hours for a license to open them up. That's correct.

SPEAKER_03 37:08

So, because Elliot just actually touched on something that is a part of policing and a part of our industry. There are always contributing factors that go into everything that we have all gone to, whether homicide, drug overdose, domestic, there's always contributing factors to it. And problems like food deserts, okay? If local governments aren't looking at specific areas and going, what are the needs there? You know, and and figuring out how to use their resources to fill those needs, then somebody else is gonna. Somebody else is gonna, you know, figure out a way to give Mrs. Harris what Mrs. Harris wants out there, or Mr. Peggy's what Mr. Pegese wants out there, and nine times out of ten that's gonna be illegal.

SPEAKER_06 37:56

So can you describe the role of the local smoke shops and these networks? Are they contributing? Are they a part of it? Are they involved or is it something more complicated?

SPEAKER_04 38:10

I say most of them are, right? But contributing to the crime, contributing to the to the crime, right? For for example, if you don't live in the community, you own a store in the community, you're not putting any more money into the community. You're taking it out, right? That's that's long term, right? We talk about that in the black community for years. You know, individuals that open up shop don't give back to the community.

SPEAKER_05 38:31

Right.

SPEAKER_04 38:31

When we talk about these vape shops that are selling illicit vapes, there's a twofold strategy. Because I talked to a guy that's knowingly selling. Knowingly selling it, right? But see, that's the interesting thing. Because it's not a vape registry and they're getting their product at a good price, there are some store owners that have no idea that what they're selling is illegal, right? In fact, most don't. Most don't. So yeah, this is crazy. And only time it's highlighted is if someone gets hurt. And let's talk about the someone. If a kid gets hurt, then everyone in police in the communities up in arms, they get to that store, then they identify that it's basically an illicit vape that caused the harm. And then the store owners go, well, I didn't know. So if you're in a particular state that doesn't have a vape registry, which details exactly which vapes are FDA regulated, then you should be asking your local legislators, your local community leaders to ensure there's a vape registry. And not only helps the people who are supposed to help, tobacco harm reduction, which is basically a low-risk alternative to combustible smoking, which is really important, right, for those who are going through trying to get off of that particular product. But more important, for a young adult who should not have these products, at least can identify from the list what is regulated if they want to be responsible. But under no circumstances, if you're under the age for utilizing these products, should you be using them? But if you don't have a vape registry and you think the answer to resolving this is an increase taxing on them, because it's gonna make it better? No. What you're going to ensure is that individuals who want to be good consumers and buy regulated vapes will now start buying them out of their trunk of some ice car.

SPEAKER_03 40:23

Okay, well, but there's an opportunity here. If because I mean you might have been getting ready to ask that. The state of New York has recently undertaken an education campaign to actually have different counties in the state send all of their retailers what they can and what they can't sell. That's part of it. But the opportunity that I'm speaking of is if we get these store owners, if we get these vape stores, if we get these smoke shops to understand that most of the stuff they're selling is crap, okay? And only 41 products are actually legal, they can go a long way in correcting this situation. If they get on board and begin to only sell those products that are authorized and regulated.

SPEAKER_06 41:08

I would I would think, listen, if I had a vape store, I'm selling the 41. Everybody's gonna come, I'm gonna be the millionaire on the block because everyone's gonna know that Corey's corner, when they come by it, it's illegal.

SPEAKER_04 41:21

Right. But Corey's a responsible store owner who's gonna do it the right way. He's gonna honor his license, he's gonna honor the state of New York, and or is good Corey's gonna sell the 42 that are regulated.

SPEAKER_05 41:31

Right.

SPEAKER_04 41:32

The problem is James is gonna sell a 500 that's not regulated, and he's gonna take a chance and make it and he's gonna sell a 500 that's not regulated compared to your 42, and he's not gonna pay taxes on it. He's gonna sell it to anyone possible under the table for cash, right? And because he's gonna do it that way, he's going to outlast Corey. And the reason why he's got to outlast Corey, because when Wayne does the search warrant on his establishment and he smashes it in and he gets $10,000 worth of product, he's already sold $100,000 for that for two weeks. That's right. And the fine that he's gonna get, but Wayne's hard work is going to be minimum, $500 to $1,000 for the first time.

SPEAKER_03 42:13

And if James's store is struggling, uh-huh. Like James is selling chicken out of there, he's selling them white t-shirts out of there, he's selling paper towel out of there. But James's selling everything. If James's store is struggling, James is gonna be looking for however he can make some money. And selling those products that are not regulated is gonna be top of his mind.

SPEAKER_06 42:30

So if enforcement is done correctly, what changes should communities expect to see?

SPEAKER_03 42:36

The illicit market will drop. Um if it's done correctly, if we get everyone working on the same page, if we start only seeing regulated products out there, our community will be safer. The illicit markets that exist right now because of all that stuff out there that shouldn't be sold, can be or is being sold, those will disappear. Um, in terms of law enforcement, law enforcement won't have to get out there and chase people that are selling vapes out of the back of their cars, or you know, won't have to deal with gang violence that's occurring because this gang wants to sell these products over here and this gang wants to be in that corner. That's that's how it all begins to tie together. So, I mean, I mentioned a little while ago that everything has a contributing factor. None of this stuff exists in silos, as Elliot said. If we can start to recognize all of that and then work in a coordinated fashion to make sure that all those contributing factors are actually addressed and those illicit products are taken off the market and only regulated stuff can be sold, then we can make a dent. Then we can actually save some lives. I'll say this too there's money right now that's that's being spent. It's the anti tobacco industry that are telling everyone a whole lot of misinformation about what vaping actually is. Harm reduction a little while ago. Um, there is science right now that has proven that those regulated vaping products, the ones that are okay, that have been you know approved by the FDA actually help in people stopping uh using combustible products. The combustion is actually what gets people when they're smoking cigarettes. So if you know all this misinformation is out there, if we can start to coordinate our efforts and put that real information out there, teach people what works, what doesn't work, what's illegal, what's not illegal, we can make a den. We can actually save some lives.

SPEAKER_06 44:36

That's why y'all on Corby's Corner. We're about to go viral for all my vapors that's out there in America and across the seas. I hope you're listening and I hope that everyone tomorrow, after you look at this Cory's corner, you go right to your state registry. If you're if you're a hardcore vapor, honestly, you should be vaping with the right product. Now, we're at a section of Cory's corner called a Spitfly Round. I'm gonna ask both of y'all 10 rapid fire questions. You're gonna answer yes or no, or one-word answers, try not to expand. Okay? This is a fun game. You ready? Let's start with you. Wayne. Accountability starts with the police or the community? Both. Most important trait of a police officer. Communication. One word to describe police in America today. Struggling. Body cameras. Game changer or overrated?

SPEAKER_03 45:35

Game changer.

SPEAKER_06 45:35

Biggest threat to public safety today.

SPEAKER_03 45:38

Biggest threat to public safety right now is the ignorance of what policing really is and what it's supposed to be.

SPEAKER_06 45:45

Most influential person in your career. Just 30 years, a lot of people.

SPEAKER_03 45:51

Most influential person in my career. I'm gonna it's actually wasn't one person, it was a group of people. I was six years on the job, they made me acting sergeant, and they put me in charge of a platoon that had probably 10 guys, each of which had 25, 30 years already on. So collectively, they had hundreds of years of experience. They taught me how to be a sergeant, they taught me how to be a supervisor, and they were quick to go go sit over there in the corner. We'll let you know when it's time to do it.

SPEAKER_06 46:24

One word to describe the illicit vape market today. Out of control. Education or enforcement, which is more important? Education. Biggest misconception about vapor?

SPEAKER_03 46:39

That everything out there on the market is okay to use.

SPEAKER_06 46:42

One word to describe the impact of illegal products on communities. Devastating. Okay, you didn't do too bad, right? That was good. Elliot, let's go. You're in the hot seat. Uh-oh. What's harder? Leading people or changing culture? Changing culture. Biggest challenge facing young black men today? Mental health. Most underrated skill for a police officer.

SPEAKER_04 47:08

Communication.

SPEAKER_06 47:10

Mental health or physical fitness? Which is more neglected in policing?

SPEAKER_04 47:15

Ooh, mental health for sure.

SPEAKER_06 47:17

Regulation or innovation? Which is moving faster?

SPEAKER_04 47:21

Uh innovation.

SPEAKER_06 47:23

Has the government kept pace with the vape industry? Yes or no?

SPEAKER_04 47:27

No.

SPEAKER_06 47:28

One policy change you'll make tomorrow.

SPEAKER_04 47:30

Policy change that I will make tomorrow. The way training is implemented. One of the things I find is we doing training, a police officer doing training on a computer. I think anything to do with cultural diversity, hands-on mental health needs to be done in person, live, where people can see each other face to face.

SPEAKER_06 47:51

Agreed. Most important stakeholder. Consumers, law enforcement, or policymakers? Consumers. Federal government or local government? Who needs to do more?

SPEAKER_04 48:04

When we talk about vapes, federal government. We talk about both. I'm gonna go with Wayne's hands up. Okay. Yes.

SPEAKER_06 48:11

Last one. Most vulnerable consumers, youth or adults? Youth. Thank you for participating. This corner is powered by Story to Tell Productions. If you're serious about starting a podcast or taking your production to the next level, this is the team you need. Reach out to Story to Tell Productions and get it done the right way. Before we move forward, let me take you somewhere for a second. Everything we talk about on this show power, accountability, loyalty, redemption, it's not just a conversation for me. I lived it, I earned it, I survived it. I've seen both sides of the system. I walked the street, I wore the badge, carried the weight of decisions that changed people's lives. That's why I wrote Once a Cop. It's not just a book, it's the raw, unfiltered truth about the journey from the corners of Queens to headquarters in the New York City Police Department, the NYPD, the pressure, the politics, the purpose, the course. And the documentary, a cops and robbers story, pulls the curtain back even further. No headlines, no sound bites. Just a human story behind a uniform. Because behind every badge is a man, behind every rank is a story, and behind every story is a choice. Now we're from our sponsors.

SPEAKER_02 49:26

At Diverse Perspectives, LLC. We don't just develop leaders, we cultivate vision, purpose, and the power to create lasting change.

SPEAKER_00 49:38

Through leadership development, professional training, and strategic consulting, we're helping individuals and organizations build a brighter future.

SPEAKER_02 49:46

Through our partnership with Blue Foundation Inc., we stand beside low and moderate income families, providing advocacy, education, and resources that open doors and transform lives. From adopting graduating high school seniors to providing diapers for young families, equipping HBCU students with essential supplies, helping children attend summer camp, and investing in programs that uplift entire communities.

SPEAKER_00 50:16

Together, we're creating opportunities. One family, one neighborhood, one future at a time.

SPEAKER_02 50:22

Diverse Perspectives, LLC and Blue Foundation Inc. leading with purpose.

SPEAKER_06 50:31

How important is it for law enforcement to distinguish between legitimate, regulated products and illicit ones? Or can they even do it? I don't know if we can do it.

SPEAKER_03 50:42

Honestly, I don't think they can. Like I said earlier, the the chiefs of police that are out there, the sheriffs that are out there, they don't know the scope of this problem. And if they don't know, their officers and their deputies aren't gonna know either. So if an officer walks into a store, a little convenience store, and sees vape being up on the wall, or vaping products up on the wall, they're not gonna know which ones are regulated, which ones are not regulated, which ones are dangerous, which ones are not. That's why the education is important. Right. Education.

SPEAKER_06 51:11

Let me ask you a question off paper. Illicit vape operation, does it look just like a drug operation on the street corner?

SPEAKER_04 51:21

Not only does it look just like a drug operation for you know my background, I spent several years uh cross-designated U.S. Customs uh DEA task force, um narcotics for the state police. Same activity. Someone on the corner selling it, in many cases, maybe out of the trunk of a car, right? And it's a little more sophisticated to store, right? Which is the same thing with drug operation. What communities need to understand is the sale of illicit vapes looks just like a drug transaction. The investigation into them is just like a drug transaction or drug investigation. So the manpower hours utilize to do an investigation, kid gets hurt, um, there's a task force that decides that for whatever reason they're gonna make this uh health issue a law enforcement issue, which is always bad when policing gets involved in health issues and not focus on education, treatment, and counseling. But in some cases, they have to do search warrants. The manpower hours, the hours utilized to do that is exhausting. Because you have to get a search warrant, you have to validate search warrants, you have probable cause for search warrants, you got undercovers that go in. In many cases, people are talking about they use underage kids to use illicit bias. Right. And just understand, if you have a 17-year-old, because they're under that age, going into an illegal operation to further a criminal investigation, you're putting that 17-year-old in harm's way. And usually that 17-year-old is being put in harm's way because they were either arrested for some other minor offense, and they're utilizing them to go in. Understand, guns and drugs are always involved, not always, but one of the key factors or part of the factors on top of the pile for trafficking. And we have to be mindful of it. So drug sale looks just like a vape sale, and a vape investigation looks just like a drug investigation search warrant. And the thing that we have to be mindful of, the thing that destroyed many lives, particularly in the communities in which we represent, is task force. When you put task force together, because the decline in the number of people going into policing. So now what happens, you get all these agencies together. Uncle Rico. Uncle Rico gets called in. So when you get a federal task force that goes in and decides they're gonna start investigating vapes, you get RICO federal charges. And could you imagine someone going to jail over the the and and it's it's going to happen?

SPEAKER_06 53:53

Oh, yes, definitely. Why is it important for consumers to have access to legal compliant alternatives to smoking?

SPEAKER_03 54:03

For health reasons, for safety. I mean, it again, it goes back to what we were talking about before. If we can all get on the same page, if we can make sure that the only products out there are, you know, legally compliant with the FDA's regulations, then our community will be healthier. Um, the illicit market will begin to disappear. Our law enforcement agencies will have less need to focus resources and focus energy on addressing that organized crime factor out there, and we can get back to you know helping Mr. Harris out, because Mr. Harris and Mrs. Harris are at it, you know, right battling again.

SPEAKER_06 54:38

Elliot, what do you make of these new analog or fake nicotine products being designed to evade regulators?

SPEAKER_04 54:46

Additional challenges. Right? So when I say additional challenges, they as we get up to the speed, law enforcement is always behind. We always run in ketchup. So when you talk about these um products that are being created daily to circumvent the FDA or products or the laws or regulations, that creates challenging for police, police officers. And people have to understand, policing is always behind, right? So we're always playing catch up. Uh the dangers of it is that they keep changing the components, they keep changing the mixtures and the molecules and all the chemical compounds, it doesn't make it better, it makes the product worse, right? So, or it makes it more appetizing. And when I say more appetizing, the drug game has always been simple. Whoever's got the best product, the best high, the best doses, that's where people go, right? That's who makes that money at that particular point in time. To the point where it's so sophisticated, so good that someone dies. And it's the same thing with these, these, these vape products in which they're changing the molecules and the structures to circumvent the process. Uh, it's cute for them until someone dies and it traces back. And and it all it always happens. And it's necessarily, not necessarily the person wasn't using it on a regular basis. This particular time, their body must not may not adjust to the compounds they put out there. So it's dangerous.

SPEAKER_06 56:12

What are the risks to consumers, especially young people? You touched on that when products are intentionally designed to bypass oversight. Even more risk.

SPEAKER_03 56:22

I mean, we're already talking about products that aren't regulated and we don't know what's in them. Elliot mentioned before that a lot of these products come from China. What else comes from China? That that one additive that's going into fentanyl. So you know, how soon before someone figures out, oh, I could put a little bit of fentanyl in here, and not only give them that vanilla boost, you know, but give them a little bit of a little bit of a nudge. That's the problem with this, is that there are there are people out there, there are organizations out there, there are entities out there that are putting these things onto our market. They don't care about hurting us, they don't care about destroying our communities. They're just trying to make some dollars. And those illicit markets are where our people are exposed to it.

SPEAKER_06 57:07

It's funny because not it was not really funny. I spoke to a young lady today or yesterday, I think it was today, and she smokes weed. And I said, You go to a dispensary? She said, Most of the times. I said, What did you do the other time? She said, the Budman. I said, Well, you have a person who got to sell weed. She said, Yeah, I've been buying for him for like four years. I said, You're not scared? Like, if I smoke weed today, I'm definitely going to a dispensary. Like, I don't want the Budman. But here's this young lady talking about, she got a Budman.

SPEAKER_04 57:39

So it's funny, I used to say to my son, I said, When I retired from the state police, I had to be a police officer all my life. We had to be, you know, straight up and do anything. You know, troopers, straight lace. Yeah. I said, I'm going to get an earring, tattoo, and I'm going to smoke weed. So I talked to my son recently. He said, Dad, no earring, no tattoo. I know you're not smoking weed. I said, no, I'm not smoking weed. You know why? Because y'all done mess weed up. Generation. Like before, weed was some seeds, you move them to the pads, you blow it up. Now you got hydroponic number 19, glow number 15. I said, I'm not taking a chance on that. So, you know, I say that to say the way people are changing the compounds, even when it comes to vapes and trying to circulate it, it creates a danger that we're not prepared for, right? And in policing, because I've said and overstated it, we're always behind, we'll never be able to catch up. The health department is understaffed, policing's understaffed, police officers don't think that is a critical issue to deal with because it's not one of the more important things. The the glamour cases that we deal with.

SPEAKER_06 58:42

Yeah, we just went about the seven major crimes.

SPEAKER_04 58:44

Right. And and and until it gets to the point, and the only time it becomes, you know, a priority is when someone gets hurt. And then they fall into that set one of the seven major crimes, and that usually is, you know, a reckless death. Right. And that reckless death could be a young man.

SPEAKER_03 59:01

So the but but hold up, because it doesn't have to be a crime. You know when it's going to become a problem? True. Is when one of them billionaires out there has a niece who gets their hands on an illicit product.

SPEAKER_06 59:11

But we just had we just had the actor die in the swimming pool and Hollywood.

SPEAKER_03 59:16

And all of a sudden now now it's a problem.

SPEAKER_06 59:18

I think he played in Fraser or something. Happy to wonder. So speaking of law enforcement, how can law enforcement support teachers, parents, and other adults in preventing youth access to tobacco and nicotine products?

SPEAKER_03 59:32

Oh, by working with them, by talking about this, by having conversations every day by us as law enforcement showing up at community meetings, you know, showing up at those neighborhood associations and having these conversations to explain what the reality of these products are, meeting with our, you know, state and town legislators or city legislators to say this is what the reality is versus this is that misinformation we talked about before. I mean, this has to be a coordinated effort. This has to be an educational focus, an educationally focused effort to explain exactly how this problem works and what we can do as a community to actually fix it.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:12

And I and I would actually say that question has to go in reverse. How can administrative schools, school principals and officials help the police? And the reasons because they're seeing it every day, particularly school resource offices, they're seeing it every day and they're seeing the unique way in which young adults are trying to uh hide and secrete their vapes for daily use. So it's a two-way street, uh, but I think the information flow really would benefit the police going from the schools to them.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:43

Yeah. So we've all testified in person and online to different government bodies all over the country. You actually represented us at the White House for a meeting a couple of years ago. Both of y'all. If you had 60 seconds, let me get my clock. If you got 60 seconds before Congress to explain the biggest issue facing the vaping industry today, what would your headline message be? Go.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:12

90, 9 billion dollar industry in which the United States government is not getting any money from. No tax money, no uh refunds whatsoever. And I would also tell them there's a misnomer that the money or the engagement that everyone will tell you is coming from, say, uh legal entities like Big Tobacco, that is fake. Fake news. I think what people have to understand, because we have so much focus, you know, these groups that are in the best interest of you for trying to be in the best interest of the people.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:41

40 seconds.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:42

40 seconds. They're basically saying this entity is number one, but the truth of the matter is they're coming from China. And you can't get any money from China, so you pick on the entities that are legally regulated. And that's companies that are legally selling the vapes that are on the vape registry. Gotta be careful with that one. It's bad news, and it diverts the attention from the people that we should be doing enforcement on. That's illegal vapes.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:06

59 seconds. That was good. 60 seconds, you're in front of Congress.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:11

Prohibition is a failed strategy. It's never worked for us. All it has ever done in the United States is create problems for communities. It has enhanced organized crime. In fact, the prohibition that existed back in the 1920s with alcohol is still having repercussions here in 2026. So if I'm speaking to Congress, I'm if I'm speaking to these senators and these representatives, the Congresspeople, I would tell them to stop relying on failed strategies. Figure out that none of this stuff exists in silos. And if you want to make this community healthy, if you want to fix problems like illicit markets or um negative interactions between the police and the community because we're forced as law enforcement officers to take care or to address something that probably shouldn't be ours to have to deal with in the first place, then look at all of the contributing factors that are coming into play and fix those. That was good.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:13

That was about 53 seconds. I like that. Last question for my brothers. Both of you are gonna answer this. In one sentence, what does a responsible vaping marketplace look like?

SPEAKER_04 1:03:26

Uh one it's based on FDA regulated products that provide tobacco harm reduction for adults that are basically checking licenses to ensure that only adults have access to these products.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:44

The model already exists. New York State legalized cannabis for recreational use for adults. We have dispensaries all around the state right now, which are controlled access. You have to show identification to prove that you are legally old enough to go in and purchase cannabis. Do the same thing with vaping products. Regulate them. Take those 41 that have been approved by the FDA, put them into a dispensary, and make it only available there. Control how this is actually put out. And shout out to the New York Knicks. I love it. Yes, do you champions?

SPEAKER_06 1:04:24

Okay, I love it. Listen, before we wrap, is there anything that you wanted to add or something we missed or something you want to expound on? I know, Elliot, you were thinking of the break.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:36

I just want to say, in many cases, there are people out there that are really attacking vapes and they want them all off the market. Take them off the market, it goes straight to the black market. People's dependencies don't end because they go off the shelves. They basically go to a different source. And the sources that we will be forcing them to would be the underground market. That is bad. As Wayne just talked about, prohibition has never worked. Tax taxing it to the streets is a bad idea. Understand in many cases, those stores that are selling them around the schools are supplements for food deserts. We have to be mindful. It is a health issue to smoke. I've had someone that I lost my grandmother due to smoking. But reality is that was her choice, and it was an adult choice. Love and miss her. But when we talk about these products that are vapes, we have to make sure young adults are not getting them, and it starts by enforcement. And I'm not talking about enforcement on the street where more people from the community get arrested. I'm talking about enforcement that looks like the counties doing code enforcement, the counties doing inspections, the counties making sure, you know, uh the local individuals with more resources in order to enforce the regulations that are already on the books to get these things out of the streets. Right. When I hear that a sixth grader is vaping as I go to donate bags for HBC tour, to me, I look like that's a lost generation of kids. And we can't have that because one policing don't have the resources to do it, or because it's not something as important to them at this particular time, because they can't expend they don't have the resources to deal with. So in the future, it looks like we have to make sure there's increased enforcement. And again, I'm not talking about the young kid on the street. I'm talking about large levels of containers coming into this country, stopping them, uh, and making sure the underground market is uh brought to a halt.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:28

Yes. Okay. Today you shared valuable insights on accountability, public safety, community trust, and the growing concerns surrounding illegal and unregulated vaping products. Whether someone agrees or disagrees with every point discussed today, one thing is clear. Informed conversations matter. The more we understand the issue, the better equipped we are to make decisions that protect our community, support responsible regulation, and keep harmful products out of the hands of those who shouldn't have them. Thank you both for bringing your experience, expertise, and perspective to this important conversation. Thank you for having us. Thank you. So I want you all to know this is a very personal interview for me because of these lifelong friends and partners. We worked together for a very long time. And we're really out there, away from our families, our kids, uh, and like really trying to spread this message. This is a serious issue. And not none of us sitting here, we didn't even know that this was an issue until we got involved and uh traveling around the country trying to just spread this news. If you leave with anything in this uh conversation, I believe what Elliot and Wayne said about going to the vaping. See, what's regulated where you live in your state? If you vape, nobody says, you know, stop vaping. It's never gonna stop. Vaping is here to stay. Like alcohol, it was here to stay. It's not gonna stop. If we could regulate it, and as Wayne eloquently just brought it home, do it like the dispensary. My brothers, I love y'all. Thanks again for pulling up the Corey's Corner. This was great. Thank you. Yes, yes, yes. For our listeners, if you found value in today's episode, make sure you follow, subscribe, and support. This has been another episode of Corey's Corner. Till the next time, keep pushing, keep grinding. And always remember, it's not about where you start, it's always about where you finish. I'm Cory Peggy's, and I always keep it right, not real. Peace.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:38

Wants a cop, let it knock. Yeah. I for one thing we just celebrate redemption instead of condemning it. Corey Peggy, stop talking to bruh. Jagging ass. Wants a cop.