Ep. 03 | Sitting on the Fence

Can you follow Jesus and still stay “in the middle”? 

In Episode 3, Sitting on the Fence, Robb shares a raw testimony of years spent undecided—calling it “a relationship with God” while living lukewarm—until the Spirit made the Word come alive and everything changed. Pastor Bill joins to unpack why the “fence” isn’t neutral ground (it belongs to the enemy), how to move from religion to relationship, and where to go from here. 

New here?
If you’re local to Eaton/Preble County (OH), come visit The Calvary Church Eaton — 200 W. Montfort St, Eaton, OH. Not local? Message us and we’ll help you find a truth-preaching Apostolic church near you. 

Connect

• Comment your takeaway or prayer request
• Like & Subscribe for more episodes of Where Do We Go From Here?
• Share this with someone who’s “on the fence”

Sensitive Topic Note
This episode references depression and suicidal thoughts. If you’re in crisis, in the U.S. call or text 988 (Suicide & Crisis Lifeline). 

 📍 Produced by The Calvary Church – Eaton
 🎙️ Hosted by Pastor Bill Puckett & Robb Brown
 📖  Apostolic, Acts 2:38, Bible-based truth

➡️  Subscribe to follow along, and share with someone who needs answers! Let’s walk this journey together.

**Download the episodes to help increase visibility of this podcast, thanks!**

Website: TheCalvaryChurch.com

YouTube: @tcc-eaton

Instagram: tcc_eaton

Facebook: The Calvary Church Eaton

Transcript

Opening

Robb 0:05

Let me tell you a story. A man found himself in a wide open field right through the middle, was a fence on one side, stood Jesus full of light and peace. Calling people to himself on the other side, stood sane, smooth talking, and smiling, promising pleasure and freedom. One by one, people made their choice. Some went to Jesus, others went to Satan, but this man, he couldn't decide. So he climbed up on the fence. I'll just stay right here. He thought, I don't really have to choose. I'll sit right here in the middle. A little bit of God, a little bit of what I want, the best of both worlds. So he sat there. Jesus gathered his people and he left. Satan gathered his and he left and the man was left alone. After a while, Satan came back. He looked straight at him and he said, there you are. Come with me. And the man was shocked. Wait, I didn't choose you. I didn't choose Jesus either. I sat on the fence. Satan leaned in and he whisper. That's fine. I on the fence. Jesus already warned us in Matthew 12:30. He that is not with me, is against me. There is no neutral ground. Sitting on the fence is a choice. And in Matthew 16:26, it asks for what is a man profited if he shall gain the world and lose his own soul?

Bill 1:37

Lord Jesus. Father, we love you. we thank you Lord God, for this opportunity that you have given us to be here, Lord, to help those that would be tuning in to listen and that you would lead us by the spirit. Father, ultimately, we pray that each and every person that tunes into this Lord, that you add to them faith, strength, and understanding. Lord, They would draw closer to you in every aspect of their life.

Opening Prayer

Bill 2:04

Lord, we thank you. We ask you to use this tonight for your glory. We ask it in Jesus name. Amen.

Robb 2:12

You are listening to where we go from here. I'm Robb Brown, and this is where Apostolic Faith meets real life. We tackle the questions culture is asking, and look to God's word for answers that still change lives today. This is the Calvary Church Eaton podcast, and in this episode, pastor Bill and I are tackling a question that every one of us has faced at some point. What happens if I stay undecided about God? Or to put it another way, what does it mean to be sitting on the fence Initially topic came to my mind when you were preaching a sermon. And I don't remember if you mentioned sitting on the fence or if it was just the message was in general, you could call it sitting on the fence. Then it wasn't long after that, brother Anthony was teaching the Epic lesson and he taught a lesson

Introduction

Robb 3:00

referring to it. Then our last episode, we talked about our testimonies and I just couldn't help but think. Man, for so long I was sitting on the fence and I never thought about myself as sitting on the fence Exactly. Hearing you preach on, the danger of being full.

Bill 3:17

Ah, okay.

Robb 3:18

But I know the story because I've lived it without even realizing it So over the years, I had countless moments with God, moments where I knew he was reaching for me, times where his, his presence was undeniable. but yet I still denied it, he, he gave me so many moments. that's where he stands at. The door knocks, like, I know that's what that means now. Growing up in, Calvary at the Kemper Road location, there used to be this huge painting of Jesus standing after door knocking. I remember that very vividly from my childhood. But. That's what that means. I, I get that now. but I just kept choosing to stay on the fence without realizing I was actually on that fence. or even worse in some moments, I crossed over into the worldly pleasures. I completely ignored God, all fall together and just chose the world. looking back, I know I did,

What is "Sitting on the Fence"?

Robb 4:05

If anybody would've asked me throughout those years, Hey, do you believe in God and, what's your faith? I would've very proudly said, oh yeah, I'm a Christian. I have a relationship with, with God. but deep down inside that, that wouldn't have been, I can't say it wouldn't have been true. Mm-hmm. Because I did know God. I just. Was ignoring God over these years, I think, I got to the point where I ignored him so long, I forgot about him. like I've mentioned before, but, maybe the relationship never completely goes away. but, it is very hard to think about, if somebody were to asked me. I would've said, yeah, absolutely. I know God, I have a relationship with God. but now looking back, I realize it wasn't much of a relationship at all. What I realize now is he doesn't just want us to know about him. Yeah. He wants us to actually know him. Yeah. yeah, I used to say he wants to know us, but then I heard you say he already knows us, right? Right. He goes every hair on our head. Right.

Bill 4:59

There's nothing about us that he doesn't know.

Robb 5:01

So he just wants us to know him. Correct. and I think that is, that's a much different way to think about that

Bill 5:08

Something you said a little bit ago, reminded me of some data that I was looking up before we started podcast. You said, even though you were on the fence, or even though maybe you were going the way the world, you weren't making the best decisions. But. If anyone would've asked you, you would've said, well, of course. On I'm a Christian, and some data that I was looking up from Barna group, prior to podcast. about 66% of US adults call themselves Christians. Bargain Group also reports that all churchgoing adults, those who attend at least occasionally, that the average attendance is about 1.6 times per month. That works out roughly, uh, two out of every five weekends. then another thing that they commented on was. Uh, they found that currently 28% of US adults report attending church weekly. Now that's very interesting because 66% of US adults call themselves Christians, whereas only about 28% attend church weekly. And I, I said all that to say this is, it's very easy for us to identify ourselves as Christians, because if somebody asks are you a Christian? Oh yeah, I'm a Christian, but that term. He's Oftentimes completely relative to whom you're asking that question. Mm-hmm. Because your definition of Yes, I'm a Christian, could differ from someone else's definition of, yes, I'm a Christian. Um, yes, I'm a Christian because I believe in God. Yes, I'm a Christian because I go to church. Yeah. So that definition of, of Christian is relative from one person to the other. That's why there's such a huge discrepancy. I think between 66% of adults claim to be Christian and yet, those that attend church only do that about. 1.6 times per month. And so I think if I could just kind of start this, this podcast by saying this, I think maybe the biggest difference between that 66% and those that attend faithfully is the difference between being a Christian and terminology. Mm-hmm. Being a disciple from the heart.

Robb 7:29

that's

Christian vs. Disciple (Are we convinced?)

Robb 7:30

a very good point. 'cause I don't think a lot of people realize what it means to be a disciple. Yeah. Um, I, I think some people might even hear that term and maybe it's just misunderstood term to, to some extent, but. soon As I started learning more about what discipleship is, and, and that's, that's what I've been looking for this whole time. You know, every single time that I feel, uh, God's calling me on something, and I don't know what it is, I don't know what it is, but. I do know what it's, I, yeah. I want to be a disciple of Christ. Um, and I, I wanna be a disciple of, of you as my, my leadership and my pastor. But I, that's, that's what God's been, you know, just kind of screaming at me for a long time. But again, it's a, it's a still small voice, uh, that scream is Yeah. Is quiet if you're not listening. Yeah.

Bill 8:15

And even if we go to the secular. Definition of disciple, it means a convinced adherent Of a school or individual. Yeah, 66%. The US adults claim to be Christian. Yeah. Yet the average church attendance is 1.6 times per month. Are you really that convinced?

Robb 8:37

So now there, there, I know there's a large amount of people that believe that you don't have to attend church in order to be a disciple, right? Sure. and

Bill 8:45

that's like saying you didn't have to follow Jesus to be a disciple. Yeah. Um, because the Bible says that faith cometh by hearing the hearing by the word of God. How shall they hear? Except there's a preacher and happen to be a preacher except he be set. Yeah. because the Bible. Refers to the church as the body of Christ. Yes. And not one part of our body can be cut off from the rest of our body, right? And then just function okay. By itself. We're, we're meant to be together. The Bible says that iron sharpens iron as a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. Um. We were created to be communal. as soon as Jesus launched his ministry, the very first thing he did was call disciples to him. Yeah. He called people to walk with him. Yeah. He called people to, to minister alongside him. we need one another, we need the body. we need to have that accountability. With one another as well. Maybe what I'm really getting at is, is the difference between a, a Christian in our, in, in our relative personal definition of what that is versus the. secular definition of a disciple, a convinced, and here. and so I think maybe sometimes the question we ask ourselves is, how convinced are we? Hmm. And maybe that's where the fence comes in.

Robb 10:20

Hmm. Yeah. I know the more people that I talk to, the conversation always ends up leading to doubt. and so I think that what you just said makes a lot of sense. if you're not convinced, that's because you're full of doubt.

Bill 10:34

I think you can be convinced and still have moments of doubt.

Robb 10:38

Of course. Yeah. Yeah. So I know that I have still had moments and you know what I actually left out of my testimony. I mean, there were several things I left out, not on purpose, just because, uh. I'm forty. Uh, and there was a lot of moments over that time. Uh, that's crazy to think. I'm forty,

Bill 10:56

he said, forty.

Robb 10:58

That's wild. Do you remember the moment that you were teaching, Growth University, and I think you prayed a prayer and you prayed that any doubt that we have would, would flee from us. and that was the first time I realized, I was like, wait a minute, if he's praying that prayer, because I know when you pray, you pray for yourself as, as. With everybody in the room, you know, you'd absolutely, you don't, you don't pray for people like you don't need this. You pray for yourself the way that you pray for us. And I, I understand that, uh, just from hearing you teach and preach and talk. so when you pray that prayer, I was like, wait a minute. cause that mean that he has some doubt. And, and not that I'm questioning anything at all, but it was just a realization for me that I was like, wait a minute. I know I have doubt. For a while there, I thought, you know, I, I, I want to commit to this so badly, but there's this, just this thought in the back of my mind that was what if, what if it's not real? What if it's just the church, um, making money somehow some way? But, I remember saying to you if, if any of that is true. You're not in on it, I can tell that you're not in on it because the house sold out to this that you are. And so, you know, if you, if there's anybody somewhere just counting money, like, oh, look at all the Christians I got, you know, they've got me in the dark. But, I know that, going back to. Well, we know that he wants relationship with us. we know that he wants us to know him. he wants to look at us one day and say, well done thou good and faithful servant. And when I, when I hear that, and when I read that, and when that word came alive to me, man, my heart feels happy when I think about that moment. Like I actually, I feel something just reading those words from the Bible. the same way that when I read

Wake-Up Moments & Preserving Grace (combat, car wrecks, silent struggles)

Robb 12:40

those opposite words of. It's go away from me. Right. You worker of iniquity. Yeah. You evil do or like, I do not know you. And that, I mean, even just saying it right now, it hurts. It hurts to even think that that's a possibility in my life. You know? Of course it's a possibility. Yeah. but to think about me and know that that could be my destiny if I don't do something about it, you know,

Bill 13:03

that's an enil and maybe, maybe one of the most depressing. Thoughts with that is that I believe it's Matthew 7 21 and 22, that tells us that there's a, a lot of people that aren't gonna see that coming. They're gonna get that answer. Depart from me. I never knew you. Jesus said, many will say unto me, Lord. Lord. Then they called you. They called me Lord. Uh, in another part of the scripture, he said, their, their lips praise me, but their hearts are far from me. Uh, and and so it really goes back to what he was saying in Matthew seven is a lot of people that's gonna say. But Lord, I've told people my whole life, I'm a Christian. I wear a cross necklace. I have a Jesus t-shirt. I held up a John three 16 sign in the end zone at the Bengals game.

Robb 13:57

Yeah.

Bill 13:57

Um, I reported the Barna group that I'm, I'm a Christian and he's gonna say, depart from me because I never knew you. And that doesn't mean he doesn't know that person, that word, that, that term, they're new or know. It, it denotes an intimate personal relationship. Depart from me. You claimed me. Your, your lips spoke fondly of me. But your heart, you, you praised me with your lips to those who you wanted to hear, but your heart was very far from me. Yeah. And again, I think that ties back to sitting on the fence. Yeah. Or as we're kind of talking about here, not being all in.

Robb 14:43

That's it. That's exactly it. Because here was what I came to realize after this. if I'm not all in Jesus, I'll end up being somewhere else. I'll be all into something else. and that's not to say like, oh, well you're just really focused on Christianity and Jesus right now, and it'll pass one day. no. I do know me and I will be all into whatever I'm focused on. I will stay focused on Jesus, because I know what my eternity looks like. If I don't. I find it hard to believe, just knowing myself. I find it hard to believe anybody could be half in and, and still find themself with Jesus in the end.

Bill 15:18

Well, the Bible gives us a very good example. Yeah. Of, of how you can be half in and walking with Jesus. His name was Judas. Yeah. Judas went everywhere that Jesus went. He sat at his feet, he listened to his teaching. He witnessed the miracles firsthand, but there was something in Judas heart that, that kept him on that fence. and Brother Robb, here's the greatest danger about the fence. Is, you may be able to walk that fine line and do that balancing act for a while, but the day will come. Make no mistake about it. The day will come that wind is gonna come along, that one thing is gonna come along and it's gonna be more than what you are equipped to fight against. And so it's only a matter of time as you're trying to walk that fine line. between sin and holiness and between having one foot in the world and one foot in the church. Having one part of your heart of the world and one part of your heart, to God, it is only a matter of time before something comes along in life. And because you spent so much time just trying to hold that balance, it's gonna knock you.

Robb 16:36

But, what we're reminded of in the open though, is the fact that the fence is owned by Satan. Yeah. So if we are walking that fine line in the end, that was the choice. Mm-hmm. The choice was that if you choose the middle, Satan owns the middle, Jesus said it clearly in Matthew 6 24. He said, no man can serve two masters for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will hold to one and despise the other. it's not possible,

Bill 17:04

right?

Robb 17:04

It's not, it's just not possible.

Bill 17:06

Yeah. The scripture tells us that you can't love the world and love God at the same time. For any man that loves the world, the love of God is not in Him. You reminded me of the scripture outta James chapter one, verse eight. You know that fence walking, trying to maintain that grip on the world, but yet that grip on Jesus at the same time, you know, you're, you're split right down the middle. You're not all the way in over here. You're not all the way in over here. And James says, in James chapter one, verse 80 says, A double-minded man is unstable in all of his ways. If there's nobody that ever walked a tight wire that said, I felt a hundred percent stable, there's no way. There's no way because you're, you're, you're constantly doing this. and that's no way to live,

Robb 17:54

right?

Bill 17:54

That's no way to live. And I think that's the reason that Jesus said, and the Book of Revelation, he said, I would rather you be hot or I would rather you be cold. Yeah. Because if I find you lukewarm, I'll spew you out of my mouth. I think that that lukewarmness is probably really all that lukewarmness is. And you know, I've never really thought about that until we, we started recording this, but that Luke warmness is really just the middle of fence.

Robb 18:22

Yeah, I thought I could balance the two for a long time. I did. because, I would've called myself Christian, although I knew that I wasn't living that life but. I guess as I slowly started to come back towards, the church and, and, and my faith you know, I still was not making the right decisions. I still would not, not asking God to take things from me, not asking God to replace my thoughts with his and to replace my desires with his. And I wasn't looking for that. I was looking to get a little bit of church sometimes. And feel good and go home and feel like, all right. I'm on the right track. I went to church today. Yeah. and that's not talking down to anybody who, who may be in that moment right now. Right. right. Absolutely. I just, I just hope that there's something someday that speaks to you enough that makes you wanna go all in, because you, you have to go all in one way or the other. I eventually, I saw it for what it was. The, the fence completely belongs to the entry. Yeah. and, and sitting there neutral is rebellion. Mm-hmm. I mean, ultimately it's just rebellion. we know that's not what he wants. Right. And so if we're just doing what we want, we're rebelling against what he wants.

Bill 19:27

Right.

Robb 19:28

So.

Bill 19:29

Right. Yeah. And, and Robb, you went on something, a second ago and I think the, those that would be listening I just wanna make sure that I reiterate that if, if you're a new Christian, if you are new to the faith, if you haven't been in this very long. You're trying to get things figured out. There's a lot of instability. Yeah. You're learning, you're growing, we sincerely hope that you can take this podcast and, and glean something from this and that it would encourage you and strengthen you, as you walk with, with God. But. Really, we wanna speak to those that maybe have been living for God for some time and maybe you found yourself Yeah. On, on the fence. And so this is, meant to be very encouraging. And also let it, let it get to our hearts a little bit. Let it convict us a little bit. not condemn us, right? There's a big difference between condemnation. And conviction. Yes. Condemnation will cause people to run away from God, whereas conviction will draw people to God. Yeah. And so our objective here is, to speak to us and to, to others who maybe struggling in that area of the fence. And so again, if you're a new Christian and, you are just getting that spiritual walk started. Let this just be an encouragement and a guide to you, but understand that those that we're talking about on the fence

When the Word came alive (Spirit + Word)

Bill 20:55

are those that have walked with God for maybe some time and just, just haven't figured out if I wanna be in the world or if I wanna be in the body of Christ.

Robb 21:07

Yeah.

Bill 21:07

Hmm.

Robb 21:08

That's a good reminder, 'cause I, I know a lot of times when you hear people talk about what we're talking about and then, and talk about what we've been through and where we're at and you know, things like that. It is very easy to be like, look at then just talking down their nose.

Bill 21:22

Yeah. and the truth of the matter is we're sitting here doing a podcast about sitting on the fence, but I've, I've had my fence moments. Yeah, you've had your fence moments. Every Christian is going to have their fence moments. Yeah. Every Christian's going to come to those moments that proverbial fork in the road where you're gonna have to do, like Jesus said, you're gonna have to choose. One or the other because you cannot have both. Hmm.

Robb 21:53

Yeah. And that actually, that's good to think about too, because just because you choose God today, doesn't mean you're going to choose God the next time. There's gonna be many times where you have to make the decision, not just one.

Bill 22:06

Yeah, you're exactly right. And that Barna study, 66% consider the selves Christians, but the average church attendance is 1.6 times per month, less than two times. We can't say that we're not on the fence if we claim Christ. Yeah. But we don't claim his body.

Robb 22:26

Right. that kind of brings it all together right there. When I look back and I see those moments that God preserved me. I, I tend to go back to these moments where I realize like, I shouldn't be here. I just shouldn't be here. there was those moments in combat that we kind of talked about a little bit last time. Um, but there were several car accidents at one point in my life. and then there was the nights, literal alcohol, poison, drugs that would've, should have ended me. Yeah. but then there's times when I, I was so weighed down by depression and anxiety and PTSD It's been several years back now, but, uh, my wife had a very close friend, uh, whose husband took his life as a result of that silent fight that people, people in general face. I believe everybody goes through about a depression at some point. But I think, veterans do kind of face it a little bit differently in some ways. when she found out that her close friend, and I say her close friend, she knew him as well. Um, his name is Nathan, uh, Nathan Stull, uh, never got to meet him. But in that situation, uh, Amy made me promise that if I had ever had any of those types of thoughts. That I would immediately tell her so that we could just work through those things. Yeah. at that time I agreed, of course, because I wasn't in that moment. I didn't have those thoughts or anything at that time, but mm-hmm. Um, uh, later, uh, those thoughts did begin to develop. if you have a traumatic moment, it doesn't always affect you immediately. there's a lot of times where traumatic events don't actually affect you and so many years later. um, but later in life when those thoughts did come for me and did begin to haunt me. I did not tell her. Uh, and I did suffer in silence for a long time. I really did. once I've, I realized it was getting a little bit too heavy. I told one person, I, uh, and it wasn't, but just a couple weeks later after I told that person, they completely cut me outta their lock. Still to this day, I have no clue. Well, I have no clue why, Not to place blame on, on that person or anybody else, but, um, I know that compounded the problem for me. I definitely didn't wanna tell anybody else after that. Uh, I was afraid that the next person would then run from me as well, and, uh, I just didn't wanna lose anybody else that was close to me at that point. So, aside from those dark thoughts, I, I still shouldn't be here though. but God preserved me, as I mentioned that before. he, he didn't just keep me alive so I could survive. I think he kept me alive to wake me up. Mm-hmm. Hm. Because if I would've been taking any of those moments, it wouldn't have been well done.

Bill 24:59

Yeah.

Robb 24:59

It wouldn't have been well done. Good and faithful servant. It wouldn't have been, and any of those moments that I can recall that I could have been, should have died, I would've been doomed to help for

Revelation of Self & Family Reflection (angry dad to changed heart)

Robb 25:10

all of eternity. Mm-hmm. that's crazy to think about. I don't know. He is just wild to me to think about that. But, I think he just wanted to remind me that knowing about him was never gonna be enough. I needed to know him. Right. and to be in an actual relationship with him.

Bill 25:26

And so let me ask you this question, rah. How do those past experiences equate to your commitment now?

Robb 25:35

So, looking back and seeing those moments, and knowing what I know now, that's the hard part it's because what I know now, I didn't know then or else maybe I would've made a different decision back then. And so what I know now is that I had to live differently. but I can't do it on my own. Right? Like we talked about, like right to rely on him, right? This all just leads back to a relationship with him, not a religion. and I think that's where so many people get it wrong. I might be stranded from the answer to your question, but that's good. That's where a lot of people get it. This is where a lot of people get it wrong. They just think it's a religion. They just think, oh, you just got a bunch of rules. Mm-hmm. and, and, you know, I would be okay with it, but as soon as I start to see your rules, You know, there's always that one, or, you know, something that just turns me off and I can't be a part of that anymore. It has nothing to do with rules. It doesn't everything to do with as you grow into a relationship with him. Yeah. You just don't want to do things anymore.

Bill 26:29

Right. what did Jesus say? He said, if you love me, keep my commandments. Yes. And so one absolutely hinges on the other. And really maybe that's the key brother Robb, to getting off the fence is literally making up your mind. Yeah. I know what he did for me when I was the chiefest of sinners. I know that there was grace for me. It's like he, you know the woman at the well in Samaria? Mm-hmm. When she went into the village here was a woman who had had multiple husbands. Who was shacking up with a dude that wasn't her husband. Jesus knew all that. And yet Jesus went out of his way to go into Samaria where Jews did not walk

Robb 27:15

right

Bill 27:16

to talk to a Samari woman whom Jews did not have any sort of, correspondence with.

Robb 27:21

Yeah,

Bill 27:22

She had a divine appointment at a well with the living God. And she goes into the village and she says, come and meet this man who told me everything I ever did.

Robb 27:33

Everything.

Bill 27:34

And just like that woman, maybe it's coming to the understanding that no matter how. Terrible I'd lived, no matter how bad my choices are. No matter all of the places of bondage I've found myself, I'm gonna choose to love him with all my heart, mind, soul, and strength.

Robb 27:51

Yeah.

Bill 27:52

And maybe it's that choice. He said, if you love me, keep my commitments. Maybe it's that choice that says I'm gonna love him. And maybe that's the all in moment. I don't know. Maybe that's when you get off the fence.

Robb 28:05

Maybe. Maybe. But I, I know, you have to get to know him. So how do we get to know him? To be in relationship with him. You have to communicate, right? How can we possibly communicate with an invisible God? There's only two ways that I can think of. We can pray. That should be the ultimate communication. Right. Then the other way is to read the book that he left for us to know. Right. It's not just a book. Right. Took me a long time to realize that too. but the word came alive. every verse feels personal now. he's changing me with his word

Bill 28:39

When Jesus looked in Jerusalem, he saw harvest. Yeah. But I think you raised a really. Great point. you were talking about religion, and you've heard me preach it, you've heard me teach it. Religion will change your perspective on some things. Yeah. But relationship will change you. Yes. And I, I mean, I've heard so many people, um, I'll never understand why. There's people that confess Jesus and um, people that have gone to church their whole lives that fight so hard against the baptism of the Holy Ghost. Yeah. When it was literally in the foundational genesis of the New Testament Church in Acts chapter two and so many. Testimonies I have heard from people, including my own, that, you know, life begins when you receive the Holy Ghost. Which makes sense because the Holy Ghost is the resurrection power. Yeah. Right. It's the only thing that has the power to resurrect you into new life. Yeah. And so your testimony as well as many other people, uh, including myself, um, sister Donna Ray. Yes. Uh, you know, baptized her in, in Jesus' name that very next week, she said, I, I've gone to church my whole life. Yes, I've read the Bible my whole life, but now something's different. And she started to cry. Yeah. And she said, now. When I read my Bible, the words are alive yes. life begins at the Holy Ghost, and maybe now it is entirely possible. It is entirely 120% possible to have the Holy Ghost and go back to the fence. Yeah, it's, it is. It's absolutely possible to do that. Yeah. But if more people can have that first Century Book of Acts testimony, I was baptized in his name and my sins were remitted. He filled me with his spirit. Yeah. And when he did, I spoke with new tongues. I didn't have a religious experience. Right. I had a relational experience with the one

Transformation: New Desires, Not Just New Rules (Romans 6)

Bill 31:05

true in living. God.

Robb 31:06

Yeah.

Bill 31:06

There's such a difference. Like I said, religion change your perspective, the relationship, it'll change you. Yes. And maybe, I don't know, maybe Brother Rob. Uh, maybe the reason a lot of people struggle with offense is they just haven't quite moved past ruic. that could be it, because, and you nailed it a little bit ago, you said religion's about rules. You know, it is, it really is. and if all I have is religion, then all I'm trying to do, you know, the Jews in the, in the, in the Old Testament. had a law, and their law was a bunch of do's and don'ts. But in the new Covenant, the Bible says that that law is now written upon the tablets of our hearts by the spirit. Yeah. And so it's no longer about touch, not taste, not, I don't want, when God filled me with the Holy Ghost, it wasn't about don't talk this way. Don't tell that joke. Don't dress this way, don't do that. It wasn't about anything like that. It was about this amazing thing that happened, and I know you can relate to this, this amazing thing that happened to me on the inside, that it wasn't about anybody preaching to me. No, you need to stop doing this. And, and there's a need for that sometimes, of course. But it was about me saying, Lord, I don't want to do that anymore. I don't think that would be plea to you. Yeah. Um, if you love me, Jesus said, you my commandments. And at that point it wasn't about rules, it was about relationship.

Robb 32:46

Yeah.

Bill 32:47

I, in my opinion, I have a phenomenal marriage and I'm so thankful for that. Jennie and I try to do everything by the word of God and base everything on our love for Jesus, but we don't have a good marriage because of rules. It's, I love her, she loves me. Mm-hmm. And that works. Yeah. And I, I think when we get there and we move from religion to relationship, it's no longer about rules. I don't have to. To buck what I'm supposed to say and what I'm not supposed to say, and what I should watch and what movies I shouldn't watch, and what I shouldn't wear and what I shouldn't wear. I, I, I don't need to buck against dad. Yeah. Because it's not, it's not one of those things that are, are like, the nails on the chalkboard for me is people that go, well, it's not really the heaven or hell issue. Huh. Yeah, yeah. You're, you're doing that because you know as well as I do that, if I could translate that out of your heart is it's this, well, the Bible probably says I shouldn't do it, but if I can get away with it and still be saved, yeah. I'm going to, how close to the fence can I be to how close to the fence can I be? That's the equivalent of saying, listen, I know adultery's wrong, but as long as I cheat on my wife and don't get caught, is it a divorce or not a divorce issue? Hmm. You know what I mean? Yeah. so no, if, if we're asking that on some things and we know the Bible is clear on it, yeah. Gotta check our heart. We gotta, eh, I might be a little closer to the fence than what I thought that was. Yeah,

Robb 34:21

yeah. That's maybe tough for people to hear, but that's it right there. I, I'm glad that you related to marriage because ultimately. We are the bridegroom. Right, exactly. And church is gonna return for his bride. And, uh, I think, I think

Bill 34:37

a chase virgin is what the Bible calls it. Yeah. He's going to return for a spotless holy bride.

Robb 34:46

Maybe that's why we get married.

Bill 34:47

I think you nailed it. I think you nailed it because we, we actually have some scripture for that. Yeah. when Paul is, is giving direction to, to the husband and to the wife. When he gets to the man, he says, here's the example I want you to set in your marriage. Love your wife. Just like, I love the church. So he's, he's laying on the shoulders of men. Love your wife.

Robb 35:14

Yeah.

Bill 35:15

Like, I love my bride. So yes, there is a correlation there between we need to learn how to love our wives. And love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave himself for it. Yeah. That's good

Robb 35:30

We keep talking about the relationship and how the relationship changes us. that one of those, one of those changing moments for me was, man, I used to be so angry. I still have moments of anger, but I'm not angry. when I saw, finally saw that in myself and realized, man, you are just. I'm a horrible person. Uh, uh,

Bill 35:49

lard on

Robb 35:49

yourself? Yeah. I mean, yeah, I probably am, but I knew I wasn't just a good man who made mistakes. I was a pretty horrible person. I was a sinner who desperately needed get saving. and that's kind of a heavy realization to have. um, I forget where the conversation first came up, but at some point somewhere somebody asked me, Hey, what do you think the, what do you think your kids will say about you or about their life as children when they are older, say they're in their thirties, forties, whatever, um, what will they say life was like growing up? when I thought about that, The emotional part was when I thought about what they might say. well, at that time I thought I could just picture 'em saying it was pretty good. we never really needed anything. We had everything that we wanted. mom and dad took, took care

Daily Sanctification & Surrender

Robb 36:40

of everything. They, they always provided, you know, But then they would say, but dad was pretty angry, when I think about that still obviously, man, that got emotional almost just now, but, uh, it crushes me. It really does. my wife and kids don't deserve that version of me or anybody

Bill 36:58

But the change in you, so when you and I first met and started talking, you were still struggling with that anger and very much, we had some in-depth discussions about that and, but. The, the Rob Brown that's sitting across the table for me today is not the Rob Brown from two years ago.

Robb 37:24

I, Hmm. I appreciate you coin that out to me.

Bill 37:27

Yep.

Robb 37:28

I see it in my family now. it's, it's not the way that it used to be in a lot of ways. if I was not changed in, in some way, big or small, I wouldn't see change in them. I don't think so. Right. How could they commit to something if I'm not

Bill 37:42

right. I used to, I used to tell parents, be careful that church doesn't take a backseat in your life, because if it does, your kids will be lucky to make the trunk.

Robb 37:54

Mm-hmm.

Bill 37:55

Yeah.

Robb 37:56

Right. But I know you always say, you know, our, our first ministry is our family.

Bill 38:00

Absolutely. Your first church is your home. Yeah. So many people get that wrong. They say, it's God church, family, and that's, that's wrong. Hmm. It's wrong. It's God, family, church. Our first ministry is always in the four walls of our home.

Robb 38:20

Yeah. It has to be. I didn't realize that before, but the, the more, I don't know how many times you probably said it before, I really got a hold of and thought, Hmm, alright, if, if I'm not taking a hold of, of my family ministry, then we're just coming in here and playing church. Yeah. we're coming here and, and, essentially pretending to be different and then going home and being the same. And that's, that's not it. Right. I know that's not it because. Probably Did that for a while too. and that was getting me nowhere as well. So,

Bill 38:53

yeah. And that's one thing I think every, any, any parent. and, and this, we really haven't got that far off topic. This is still about whether we're on the fence or not. Yeah. I think any, any Christian parent needs to, to understand that Your life at church should reflect your life at home. Yeah. your life at church should be a reflection of how you live at home. and I truly believe that when we were raising our kids, we're empty nesters. but when we were raising our kids, I think one of the reasons why in all the years raising our kids in church, not one time did I ever wake them up on a Sunday morning and they went, oh dad, I don't wanna go to church today. um, that never happened one time. And it wasn't because we were forceful or heavy ended about it. It was. Our home wasn't different. The only difference between our home and church was the location. the geographical location. That's good. because they saw and heard prayer in our home. They saw my wife and I reading the word. We did bible studies with them, individually, one-on-one. when they were little, we had flashcards that had scriptures on them that we would go over before bed. So it was just Jesus in our relationship with him, was just as prevalent in the privacy of our home as it was publicly in church. And so I think that made it so much more real.

Robb 40:29

Yeah.

Bill 40:29

To our children because. They weren't subjected to one mom and dad here, and one mom and dad there. And perhaps that's another danger. If I could speak to some parents who maybe you're still on the fence a little bit. You're not really sure. You gotta be careful that, that Joey and Susie don't, don't see mom and dad here. This is how we, this is our church. This is church. Mom and dad.

Robb 40:55

Yeah,

Bill 40:55

but then this is home, mom and dad. Hmm. I think that's a good way to lose them later in life. That is pretty good. That's,

Robb 41:03

I'm glad you saw all that. it took me a long time to realize any degree of what you're talking about right now, because that time I'm still

Doubt, Anchor, & Growth

Robb 41:10

learning that. sure. figuring that out. 'cause it, it's kind of easy to slip into that, yeah. you know, in the military I was military police, and so the customer service face is on all the time. If I'm in public customer service, face is on. you know, uh, but. I'm always thinking about what do I look like? What do I sound like, what do I, all these things, right? And so it is very easy to just put a customer service face on as soon as you step out the door. but it, yeah, hearing you talk about, you know, we, we can't, we can't show our kids two different, two different versions of ourself. I think the real miracle, wasn't just survival. God didn't want me to just survive, just to know him. he wanted me to live so that I could know him, not about him, but know him. That's good. and that's, that's where he started changing my desires. I woke up different. I didn't crave what used to crave. I, I didn't wanna drink anymore. I didn't wanna smoke anymore. I didn't wanna speak the same way that I used to speak. Yeah. But I, I don't wanna do any of that stuff anymore. I don't even like thinking about that person anymore. I don't, I mean, I love the people in my past. I love what God has brought me through. I don't love what I went through that.

Bill 42:23

Does

Robb 42:23

that make

Bill 42:23

sense? Yeah, absolutely. That's, so let me ask you this then. How, how much is it key if someone's on the fence and they're struggling with one side of the fence and the other, having those desires be changed? How key is surrender that? Dreaded S word. It's almost, it's almost as bad as the other S word submission. how key is surrender to finally breaking free from defense?

Robb 42:55

It has to be one of the very first keys that you're, you're gonna use to unlock this, this new life.

Bill 43:00

let me ask you this. Yeah. Lemme segue just for a second. How instrumental or how key was submission the day that you received the Holy Ghost? Oh, that was,

Robb 43:10

yeah. It, yeah. I had to put myself aside and, I wanted the Holy Spirit so badly, and, and not just to receive it, to receive it, but to be changed by it. but I stood here on Easter Sunday last year and I said, if you're a guest here today, you chose an amazing day to be here 'cause I am gonna receive the Holy Spirit today. Mm-hmm. yeah. And and the second line after that was doubt. Do you remember I said that and then I was like. But if I don't come back next week, we'll try again is essentially kind of what I, I didn't say it that way. but essentially that's what I said. and, and let the back, it didn't happen Easter Sunday, right? It didn't, it didn't happen the next Sunday. It didn't happen the next Sunday. I think it was four weeks later, maybe five, that I did receive the Holy Spirit. But, I say that because you said submission and I, I said I had to put myself aside. um, that's what it was for me that day. I was praying for my dad. I was praying for my dad. And so what I have told people is. Well, you never know because that could be the moment that God fills you with his Holy Spirit because he's gonna use you as a vessel for his power to flow through you, to touch that person. I'm looking back. I know that's what happened that day, Mm-hmm. I was so worried that my dad had. I, I don't know if it was his back or his hip that day, but they're both an issue and his knee, right? I just wanted to put myself aside. I knew that I had been trying to get the Holy Spirit for the last several weeks, but My dad was here and I knew he was hurting, and I wanted to pray for him. I wanted to come to the altar with him and ask God to help him. Mm-hmm. I, I wasn't there for me that day, but I wanted to be used that day. I wanted to be completely submitted to him. Yeah. To possibly be used to help my dad in that moment. Mm-hmm. and. that moment was when I received

Counterfeit "Blessings" & Distractions (2 Cor 11:14; James 1:14)

Robb 45:05

the Holy Spirit. I can't stand here and say my dad was miraculously doing cartwheels out the door. but

Bill 45:10

been awesome. I would love to see my dad to go laugh and that've been great but

Robb 45:15

yeah. he has had a lot of relief though, from the prayers brother Anthony has prayed for him a few times my dad is convinced every time Brother Anthony prays for me. I feel better. Like, all right brother Anthony, I'm gonna need to pray for him every week now.

Bill 45:28

Yeah. I um, with receiving the Holy Ghosts, you made the time and I wanted to get the Holy Ghosts so bad. and I think that's sometimes people that are. Seeking the baptism of the spirit. we have a tendency as humans to overthink simple things. Mm-hmm. Faith is a simple thing. Um, we don't have to get the Holy Ghost, we have to receive Holy Ghost, huh? Yeah. Um, and so many times, so many even here in this church. people come up and, and they want the Holy Ghost, and they stand there and they beg God for it.

Robb 46:03

Yeah.

Bill 46:03

He wants to give, he wants to give it to you. Don't, you don't have to arm wrestle Jesus to get the Holy Ghost. Yeah. You simply have to get. Your mind focused on him, open yourself up completely. Yeah. of course repentance is a very big part of that. open yourself up to receive. Yeah. Don't beg for it. Don't plead for it. Come to the altar. Worship the Lord. Pour your heart out to him and he'll pour himself into you.

Robb 46:33

That's it. Hmm.

Bill 46:35

sometimes when it comes to faith, it is so easy for us to get in our own way.

Robb 46:39

Yeah.

Bill 46:40

God honestly has tried to make faith as simple as he can. you know, we're humans, so we have to complicate everything. 'cause this is what we do. when it comes to receiving the Holy Ghost, you believe and then you open yourself up to receipt. yeah. Well,

Robb 46:55

I don't think I answered your question very well, but I, I know. We have to surrender every day. I have to surrender every day. I have to surrender my thoughts and, and everything because, oh man, if I allow it to happen, I mean, I've seen so many things in my life that I could sit and recall a lot of things that are not good for me. Sure. and so I have to, I have to make sure that I pray every day that God, I needs you to replace my thoughts with your thoughts. I need you to replace my desires with your desires. I need you to remove me from me and replace me with you. I remember it was mj, shared that in Bible study And when she said that, I was like, wow. Never thought about that. I've, I've never just asked God to remove me from me. And replace me with you, And I've, I've seen some forward motion with a prayer like that. Yeah. and of course, things that you've taught had, I've added to that, that man, it's all about prayer. yeah. I'm segueing, but

Bill 47:52

No, that's, no, no. This, no, this is the you are on the fence and you want to get off the fence, listen to what Rob is saying. It, it revolves around prayer has to correct and, and the reason that Satan has moved into the postmodern church prayer has become so secondary to production and so secondary to showmanship and so secondary to celebrity pastors. Yeah. Is because a church that don't pray is just a building full of people that show up on certain days at certain times. Yeah. And hell isn't afraid of one of one. That's it. You have to have prayer. Yes. Period.

Robb 48:32

Yes. Right. You have to pray together. Right. You have to pray in corporate. You have to pray out loud. one thing that you said before too, is yeah. God wants to hear your voice. Yeah. I used to pray silently. I would just pray in my head to God and I know he can hear my thoughts. Sure. And my thoughts are a prayer at that moment, so that prayer counts. Mm-hmm. But he wants to hear my voice.

Bill 48:53

Right. what did we just talk about this past Sunday? I don't know if you went back, I know you were, thank God you were working in Kids Land, but I don't know if you went back and watched the message, but the Psalmist said. My voice, will I direct to you early in the morning? early in the morning? Will I direct my prayers to you, my voice? Will you hear early morning? Understood that it was his voice that God wanted to hear,

Robb 49:15

So. I would say it's not always easy, of course. I think we've said that many times, in different ways, but, we, we know it's not easy just because, you call yourself a Christian and then start living what we call Christian life. doesn't mean life gets easy, so it's, it's not always gonna be easy. Yeah. matter of fact, God told us it was gonna be more difficult. Yeah. some days. It feels like fire. Other days it feels like peace. Yeah.

Bill 49:39

but especially as we get closer to his coming Yeah. things are gonna get pretty hairy. Yeah. As if they're not already.

Robb 49:45

Well, yeah. But what we had already mentioned, doubt a little bit in the very beginning. Matter of fact, that's when we jumped head first into this and was like, what about doubt? But I'll just, I want to acknowledge that one more time. Do I struggle? Yeah, absolutely. I do have some doubts from time to time still. but I think because my relationship is, is stronger with God, I, first of all, I recognize the doubts quicker, that's very helpful to, to catch it. But also because I'm closer to God now, it, it's like he shows me something. He, he does something happens very soon after that doubt that allows it to dissolve. right? Take those thoughts into captivity and Right. Ask them down. those are, those are just strongholds and, we need to be very careful for that. but even when I don't catch, God will always do something that same day, sometimes that same power, that just allows those doubts

Choose This Day - Lukewarm vs. All-In (1 Kings 18:21; Rev 3:16)

Robb 50:40

to just dissolve and, and then realize,

Bill 50:43

man,

Robb 50:43

you just had a moment again. and I know there's gonna be more moments, but I just told sure if fewer and fewer and further between and, and things like that. I, I assume that's gotta be a pretty good sign of growth and maturity and things like that. So that's, that's what I hope for. But, but what keeps me anchored now is I know what life looks like without him. Because, because I've lived it for a very long time. I know what it feels like to carry everything on my own. Because I tried for a very long time. you know, that night on February 27th, 2021, when I heard God speak to me for the very first time, I felt a physical weight come off. I don't, it doesn't make sense, other than it's God, There's no other explanation for the fact that I hit my knees and I begged God, I, I was at one of my lowest points that I've ever been in. and if I was, I'm not 200 pounds and say if I was 200 pounds, you know, after that, my whole. You're 200. Oh yeah, of course.

Bill 51:43

They need a little more. No way. Uh,

Robb 51:46

um It's crazy, like, yeah, yeah. I'm 200. You're like, yeah, me too. We're thinking that for different reasons. I'm lucky if I'm 150 pounds, uh, I'll push one 60. Everyone's, oh man.

Bill 52:00

I haven't seen one 60 since my sophomore years. Oh,

Robb 52:04

well, um. Any who, if I was 200 pounds, I was one 50. After that moment, I, I mean, I, it literally felt like something was taken off of me and I felt a physical relief, not just a mental relief.

Bill 52:19

Yeah.

Robb 52:19

Although there was that too. Right. But it wasn't just a mental relief, it wasn't just a, a, a, a moment that I thought something, he took something away from me. And I, I believe it was the baggage of all that sin. Yeah. I believe that was a, that was the experience of real repentance is what I, what I believed that had to have been.

Bill 52:38

Yeah.

Robb 52:39

But um, not exactly the same, but that does make me think, that there's times where the enemy, doesn't always show up in obvious ways. Right. right. But the Bible tells us in two Corinthians 1114, Satan disguises himself as an angel of like, right, right. And so sometimes that's gonna look like what we think is success and achievement or comfort, but that can actually be the distraction. That can be the, the deception, right? The ultimate deception sometimes, mm-hmm. they can, they can look on blessings. um, we can, we can think that we are being blessed. We can think that we're in God's favor, but really we're, we're, we're being fooled. and they pull us away from God on purpose.

Bill 53:26

Yeah.

Robb 53:26

We have to truly know God. to be able to discern those things, and

Bill 53:31

right like that, that career, that promotion. Yes. That's, Rob, I just got, yeah, got that promotion. Got a $15,000 increase on my salary every year. Now I am gonna have to work some Sundays, I'm only gonna be able to come to church about every other week, but God blessed me with this. No. No, sir. No, no, he did not. God did not take you out. No, he did not take you outta church. No. God would not put a price on separating you from the body. Yeah. So we, you're right. We, we have to be careful with that.

Robb 54:02

That's a good realization for, for somebody right there. For sure. yeah. That, that monetary opportunity is not from God. No. If, if it's taken you away from him. Right. It's just not. Right. even if you can catch up online, It's not the same. I can put a earbud in. It's

Bill 54:19

not the sale. Yeah. And I'm glad, I'm glad we live stream. I'm glad we do that. I'm glad for those people who are sick and couldn't be here, had some other pressing thing that, that literally kept them from being here. For people who don't know about The Calvary Church, That can listen and, and experience what goes on here, but there's nothing. Yeah. There's nothing like being here on a Sunday morning. There's nothing like being here on a Wednesday night. Yeah. Uh, rewatching it. It's just not say, did not, it's just not,

Robb 54:53

uh, man,

Where Do We Go From Here?

Robb 54:55

the experience that, the experience that you have being here is unlike no other, and every guest has left here and said the same thing. Mm-hmm. And it's not just that they were in the room and seen some things happen, right? They physically experienced something because they cried about it. They talked about it. They, you know, whatever their experience was. But each of those people have had a personal experience with God, um, and they were willing to admit it and, and, and see it in that moment. Yeah. For some reason they didn't come back. Elijah said it pretty straightforward in one Kings 18:21. He said, how long have you been between two opinions? Always good. Get the Lord, be God, follow him. Mm-hmm. So, I mean, we just made a joke about 50 50, but I mean, essentially that's what he's saying. Uh, you have two opinions, right? Uh, or how long have you been between two opinions? How long have you sat on the fence between two opinions? If the Lord be gone, follow him.

Bill 55:55

Yeah.

Robb 55:55

It's that simple.

Bill 55:57

Yeah. Now can you, can you follow both? No, because you used a term a little bit ago, you said, what anchors me?

Robb 56:05

Yeah.

Bill 56:05

if you're on the fence, you gotta throw that anchor somewhere. Yeah. you can't throw an anchor on both sides of the fence. You'll reap yourself apart. you're gonna come to a point in your life where you're gonna throw it. On the side of the world.

Robb 56:19

Yeah.

Bill 56:20

Or you're gonna throw it on the side of serving God. Yeah. Every, every person's gonna come to that crops service.

Robb 56:27

That's it. That's it. There's no neutral ground, uh, fence belongs to the enemy.

Bill 56:32

That's right. I'll, I'll never forget, uh, early on in Jane and I's marriage, when, when we, we really made up our mind that. You know what? We're, we're just gonna serve the Lord. We're just in a, uh, maybe, for lack of a better word, haphazardly, just try to operate by faith. And I, I'll never forget the moment that she, she looked at me and she said, if, if we're gonna do this, if we're gonna live for God, then we're gonna go all the way. We're gonna go all in or nothing. And. That's pretty much been our life since then. Uh, either all in or nothing. And thank God, by the grace of God and the mercy of God, he's kept us all in. Yeah. Not without our challenges and, and not, not without our doubts. We've talked about that. Yeah. Not without our stumblings and fallings and foolishness and Yeah. All this stuff that God is so temperate with us on. Not that we didn't have all those.

Robb 57:30

Yeah.

Bill 57:31

But Grace has kept us in that decision that we made. Yeah. To be all That's good.

Robb 57:37

that's essentially why after be all in as well, his grace, man, I, we, he has unlimited grace. Vicky, hey, there's not a whole lot for anybody else sector. He. Allowed. We have no, oh,

Bill 57:51

he, he used up all of God's Grace stores. Oh, you're a Grace Looter.

Robb 57:59

Oh, man. I, but I did, I started, uh, just attending on Sundays. and this is later in life, Uh, again, from the last, uh, podcast, I, I started going to church just to, see my dad on Sunday, right? But fast forward, you know, in my adult years, I started attending, on Sundays just to go to church. You know, the last podcast I told you, my, my neighbor said, Hey, man, you ever thought about just going to church? you, you are really going through it, man. but then, you know, as I started going, it started speaking to me. God started speaking to me. Then I started to surf. and a man, I've seen so many things change when I started serving. then I, then I. Committed. The, I guess the next big bold step was, committing to trusting God

Closing Invitation & Next Steps

Robb 58:40

financially. That one was a tough one. but. Then I started to study, and I wanted to know more, and then I wanted to understand it because you, you, you can receive knowledge and still don't understand. Yeah. And that's, that's where I was for a long time. I was just receiving a bunch of knowledge and I was like, man, all right. This is really good. Really good information, really good inform. I don't understand it though, right? So now I had to dig deeper and that's, that's when I decided to enroll in Purpose Institute actually that was, and that man, sometimes I really feel like I'm in over my head.

Bill 59:11

oh. This, it's gonna pay such huge dividend. It, it's already paid huge dividends for you, brother Rob and your faith. you know, when God adds to your understanding, revelation. yeah. it just, it cements that faith in you. Yeah. and boy, God can do a lot with that.

Robb 59:29

Yeah. I think I've heard, well, I know, I've heard some people say, you're trying too hard, man. your pastor said that maybe a couple times. Are you sure you're okay? Pastor has said that to me before and I appreciate that. But again, I'm all in, I don't have a choice but to be all in. you and my

Bill 59:45

sister Amy, are, you guys are juggernauts. So it comes serving and, sister Jennie and I we're always just like, they already got so much going on you know, we're. Just because we've been in that place of burnout before. Yeah. We're always very cautious and we're always very watchable about who's doing what at the church. 'cause we don't wanna, we don't wanna burn anybody out, you know?

Robb 1:00:08

Of course. and that's very much appreciate That is, again, I blame everything on the military. Even the good things. I think that has something to do with it. sometimes it doesn't feel like. That much. but, if I'm not all into this, if I have idle time, I will not fill it with good things most of the time. Well, now these days I will fill it with study. Mm-hmm. I'll fill it with prayer. I will feel it. I, I have, I now have more tools. Right. I know how to, I know how to use that time more wisely, uh, than I did before. Before it would've been Ile time, idle hands. Sure. That was play around. That's it. All day. That's it. To those people that have said that I, I'm trying too hard and I'm doing too much. Uh, I'm just trusting and following him the best I can. Yeah. Like I've said, I don't know how I could be this close to God right now. And I assume it only gets deeper right, because I, I'm only gonna grow in relationship with him But even to the point that I am right now, I couldn't imagine what life would be like now without him to just, to just immediately turn around and walk the other way. And just say, yeah, I'm good. There's a lot of experiences that were pretty cool, but I don't believe that anymore.

Bill 1:01:16

Yeah,

Robb 1:01:16

I can't.

Bill 1:01:18

Once you get off the fence, yeah. You can't really imagine life back on it.

Robb 1:01:24

No.

Bill 1:01:25

You know.

Robb 1:01:25

No.

Bill 1:01:26

I didn't get a hold of this. He got a hold of me. I didn't just believe something. Mm-hmm. I experienced something, you know, and that's the biggest difference. maybe, maybe those 1.6 visits a month outta that 66% that claim to Christians are people that are trying to exist on simply believing Yeah. In a religion.

Robb 1:01:51

Mm.

Bill 1:01:52

Because once you have that experience of taking on his name and being filled with his spirit, the fence can never look the same.

Robb 1:02:03

No way.

Bill 1:02:04

No way. Mm. Life before the fits, it never looked the same.

Robb 1:02:09

Yeah. It's disgusting to think about it again. It really is. and maybe that's why I struggle to tell my testimony sometime, because I, I don't even want to think about it anymore. Sure. I really don't, but, but I do have to realize like that those moments could be moments that help somebody else, like, Hey, I, I'm not saying I understand fully where you're at, but I can say, I can relate. Hey, I have. Experienced at least this whatever, whatever you're going through. I've experienced this and it sounds similar to what you're talking about, but I know it's not the same. Right. You know, it's not the same. but so with, with all of this pastor v mm-hmm. with everything that we've discussed, if we have listeners who find themselves in a similar situation to what we described here today, what do you say to them? or to put it another way. Where do we go from here?

Bill 1:02:58

The fence can be a little tricky, but what I would want people to know is that if you found yourself on the fence, the, the fence is really a choice. Mm-hmm. you don't have to stay there. You can make the decision that today I'm no longer going to, to stay on the fence. Tomorrow I'm gonna, you know, some people may watch this and say, you know, I just, I'm not experienced at prayer or, or maybe I've never done a lot of praying. Maybe you can only pray five minutes if that five minutes is heartfelt.

Robb 1:03:35

Yeah.

Bill 1:03:36

Between you and God, I promise you, God honors that time. The more you give yourself to prayer, the more you give yourself the more you take yourself away from the fence. And what I'm really trying to say is when you make that choice, and I pray tonight, and I pray that as you watch this or you listen to this. That there's something stirring in your spirit that says, you know what? I've been on the fence long enough.

Robb 1:04:01

Yeah.

Bill 1:04:01

I've been between, I've been betwixt two things for too long.

Robb 1:04:06

Yeah.

Bill 1:04:07

Been unstable because I've been double-minded, I'm not doing that anymore. I, I pray tonight there's something that wells up in your spirit and says, tonight I'm making up my mind. I'm getting off the fence. Yes. I'm gonna go all in, and I promise you. If you make up your mind I'm a big fan of morning prayer, but anytime of day you make up your mind. I'm gonna start praying. I'm gonna start talking to God. I'm gonna start pouring my heart out to him. I'm gonna start reading his word. An amazing thing happens when you make that choice is that the further you get into prayer and the further you get into the word, the more distant behind you. That fence is Yeah. Until you may finally look back and the fence isn't there and I'll see it, but it's all gonna start with making that choice that I'm going to give myself to prayer. I'm going to give myself to the word I'm gonna join that church. I'm going to, set under the teaching, under the preaching. I'm gonna grow in knowledge. I'm gonna grow in Revelation. And the more you do that, and the more you make that choice, I promise you that that unstableness that you felt in your faith is going to eventually begin to fade because you're gonna start growing and your faith is going to start getting stronger. But in case the enemy has lied to you, you're not stuck on the fence. You don't have to stay on the fence. Satan owns the fence like brother Ralph sin, but you're free to make that decision today. I'm not son on the fence in Auburn. Today's the day. Today's the day that I'm dedicating my life. I'm giving myself to those things. That'll bring me closer to God and take me further away from deaths. Yes. Don't, don't wait till tomorrow. Yeah. I pray, I just, feel the presence of the Lord and I pray that your spirit, sir, that this will help you. To move closer to him and further a away from, from that place of uncertainty.

Robb 1:06:06

See? That's right. I just wanna echo you a little bit if if that's all right. Sure. If you're listening to this right now, don't sit on the fence. Another dig, reach out. Talk to us. if you're not in our local area, we can get you linked up with a local church. That's right. That is Apostolic in doctrine That's right. You're gonna experience something different. For sure. find that church that preaches truth. Uh, most of all choose Jesus. That's right. And begin praying, most of all. Amen. Do that. he will communicate with you. He wants to communicate with you. he wants a relationship with you. Just doesn't always look like what we expected or what we think it's gonna look like. So, um, pastor, do, do you have any, any final words at all?

Bill 1:06:52

Yeah. I would like to just add one, one thing to what you just said. If. Is your local to the Provo County area, or even close to Provo County. And, and this is what you're looking for, and this is what you desire. may you belong to another church, but there's something inside you that says, you know what, I'm, I'm done. I'm done Being religious, I don't want religion. I want experience. I, I want relationship. I wanna walk in, in, in a covenant relationship with him. Then I invite you to The Calvary Church Eaton, to come and experience everything that God has for you. We're at 200 West Montford Street in Eaton, Ohio, and if you're local to the area or, or this is a reasonable drive for you, then we warmly invite you to come because our desire, our heartfelt desire, is to help you find that destiny. Those blessings and everything that God has for your life, we want to be a part of that. We wanna rejoice with you as God leads you into that, and we want to be a part of helping you to facilitate that. In your lives. So we warmly welcome you to come and to be a part of The Calvary Church Eaton, we're a growing church, a revival church right now. We're praying and seeking God. We need a, a bigger, a bigger building. But we want to invite you and anything we can do to help. As further brah said, please send us a message. make a comment whatever you need, however we can serve you, please let us know. And if you're in the area, I personally, invite you to come and just spend a service with us here at The Calvary Church Eaton. I believe it can be life changing 'cause we've seen it so many times already. True

Robb 1:08:38

strength. All right. Well, thank you for joining us here on, where do we go from here?