Presence Over Pressure: Erica Campbell on Holiness in a Distracted World

What if doing more starts with being fully present?

Erica Campbell joins us to talk faith, pressure, church culture, and choosing holiness without apology. From PK-adjacent scrutiny to the “white dress” moment, she shares how to separate God from people’s failures, honor leaders without idolizing them, and live with grace and standards.

We unpack faith and fashion, temptation, accountability fatigue, relationships, and why kindness is everyday ministry.

Listen for wisdom, courage, and a prayer over ministry families.

Be sure to leave a review to tell us what you think.

Transcript

Meet Erica: Many Hats, One Heart

SPEAKER_02 0:50

Welcome back to another episode. Today we are joined by one of my favorite people in the whole world. She is a mother Ps. She is a grammar woman. She is an artist. She is an author. She is a conference host. She is a comedian. She is a singer. A writer. She's an actress. I'm just gonna say, welcome, Miss Eric.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

Thank you. Yes, ma'am. How are you? I'm honored to be here. Absolutely. Oh, I saw, I watched. Me too.

SPEAKER_02 1:42

So to have you here.

SPEAKER_01 1:44

Thank you. Honored to be here.

SPEAKER_02 1:46

We could jump right into it.

SPEAKER_01 1:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:50

Um but I want to know. Like, I was literally listening to so many achievements. Like, can you literally do all of these things? How would people find the time in the day to do all the things, to be a wife, to be a mother, to be a first lady, to literally be a radio host, to be an artist, to be an off like the world?

The Power Of Presence Over Hustle

SPEAKER_01 2:09

So I let individual moments be what they are. I always say I wear a lot of hats, but I don't wear them all at the same time. I would look like a weirdo trying to cook dinner while holding a microphone and do get up warnings. So while I'm doing radio, I ask God to give me strength to be fully present in that moment and not worry about what I did before or what is to come after. I think a lot of times we treat, we cheat our current moment, worrying about a past or future moment when you're in the now. And so whether I am on stage or at home, I just try my best to be fully present. I and I know it looks like a lot on the outside, but it it's a lot, but it doesn't feel like a lot to me. It is, and it it isn't all at the same time because I know how to when it's off, it's off. You know, when I'm home, I'm home. And so I try my best not to get stressed about what is to come because while I'm resting, I try my best to rest. And I say try my best because if my phone's there, there's a contract, a call, an email, a conference, a prayer, or something. You know. Mm-hmm. Yes,

PK Upbringing And Owning The Call

SPEAKER_01 3:11

yes.

SPEAKER_02 3:11

Okay, so we have to take the people back to the younger EC days. Yes. We are literally at evangelistic.

SPEAKER_01 3:18

Yes, Erica Atkins. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 3:22

And singing in the choir, yes, doing all of the things because Uncle Charles is our pastor.

SPEAKER_01 3:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 3:29

Like how was it growing up being basically you're a PK adjacent?

SPEAKER_01 3:34

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:37

How was that for you growing up in that world?

SPEAKER_01 3:41

Well, you know, when you're little, you don't recognize the blessing in it, you know, because eyes are on you, and um you don't realize that God has elevated you for a purpose. You feel like everybody's always watching me, and and I have to be perfect, and I have to do this. And of course, you know, when you're a PK, what you hear? You know, you're not like everybody else. You can't do the same thing that everybody else does. God is a call on your life. And sometimes that feels more like pressure than a blessing. Um, and literally what I know now is they were speaking the promises of God into my life as opposed to trying to put me in a a prison of religiosity. Uh, because the type of church people that I grew up around uh were very free and loved the Lord, but they love to have a good time and they love to reach the lost. So we didn't have a church full of people, you can only come in here if you're perk it perfect. It was like we had a drug rehab, we had, you know, people who were trying to, you know, not live the gang life, but they were struggling with that thing, you know. So they were always open to understanding your struggle, but knowing there's still a call on your life. And even though it's not easy, there's still a call on your life. And so you still have a responsibility to God. And what I know now is when I stand before God, I won't be able to tell God what they said. He'll only ask me what with what I did. He'll ask me what I did with what they said and the gift that he has in me. And so I think a lot of um kids that grew up and didn't realize it was this blessed place to be in because you were a church kid, they vilify and demonize it. So they never really walk in the promise. Because God doesn't change his mind because your church was bad. God doesn't change his mind because you had a bad experience and a preacher or a missionary or somebody said something or did something wrong. You still have a responsibility to serve God. So even though it was this great place, also very tough and strict, you know, when they told us to sit down, we did. Um my eyes were on, were on God. So I wanted to know him for myself. And so if he said it to them, I said, I would say, like, I'm your child too. Then I want to hear you say that to me. And so it wasn't not believing what they said, it was just wanting to know God for myself, which equipped me for who I am today. But I I love and adore my church upbringing. Was it perfect? Not at all. Were there issues? Absolutely. But I didn't serve them, they weren't my God. So once you realize that, you can keep your eyes on God and also have grace because I done messed up too and I done did stuff wrong too. And a lot of times we put capes on the people that are up front as if they are supposed to be perfect. And so I'm I'm happy that I was able to see them as human. So even when they poured into me, I still knew that they were human. But I said, okay, God, is this you or is them? And a lot of times it was God. They was talking right. And he didn't say, you know, question them to see if what they were saying was true. And I know that's the world we live in, and you can't do anything about it. But as for me, I had great love and respect and honor for the people who prayed over me, covered me, corrected me, and taught me. And I think that's why uh I'm blessed

Accountability, Grace, And Church Culture

SPEAKER_01 6:35

today.

unknown 6:35

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 6:36

What do you think we need to do as the church? Because clearly the correction sat down.

SPEAKER_01 6:44

What? Yeah, they don't read the Bible, they can't. They can't read the same Bible. No, so easily omitted. You're not submitted to nobody and nothing, like, and everything is about you. If they say something up front, that's about you. If they say we're not doing something, that's about you. Like we are so self-centered. Are there issues? Absolutely, but a lot of times we just got weak folk that don't want to follow. They don't want to, I want to make up my own rules, my own religion. I want a little Jesus, but I also want crystals and sage. I want little Jesus, but I want this and that, and I want to do him and her and them, and then still, you know, bring all my trash to the Lord, like which you can.

SPEAKER_02 7:25

Because there's grace. And I just feel like because there's grace, I should be able to do whatever I want.

SPEAKER_01 7:29

You can't. You can't. You're not gonna walk in the joy of the Lord and live a contradiction and live in rebellion.

unknown 7:36

That's so good.

SPEAKER_01 7:37

You know what I mean? And so, um, what is the answer? I don't know. I think the people that are living right keep living right, but we do have to be louder about our faith and not be afraid of the fact that somebody's gonna say, I don't like that. It's okay. Everybody don't like everything. Everybody don't go to the same restaurant or grocery store or hairstylist, and everybody won't go to the same church. But we do all serve the same God, and his rules don't change just because you went to a different building. The commandments are the commandments. I know we don't like them anymore, but you really are not supposed to lie. You really are not supposed to steal. You know. You're literally not supposed to. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:16

I love this already, and I literally just started asking her questions.

Becoming A First Lady Unexpectedly

SPEAKER_02 8:21

Being that you are now in this first lady role, first of all, did you ever see this in your bingo card?

SPEAKER_01 8:28

Never. Never. Like, first lady? Oh, I used to actually say, God, don't don't don't give me no pastor. I don't want no pastor. I said it my whole life. I don't want to be a pastor, a pastor's wife. Then he started, he started a Bible study. He tricked me. I'm just gonna start a Bible study. Okay, just a Bible study. Okay. Then the first Bible study, there were 70 people. And so he was talking to, you know, Bishop Omer, who's our pastor at the time, and he said, You're gonna have to start thinking about next steps. Because if you start with 70 people, it's gonna grow. So probably within the year, we started the California Worship Center on an Easter Sunday to lines out the door to where we had to have two services. And he was like, if y'all are willing to wait, we'll have another service. And the staff and we even had Jonathan McReynolds at our first service, and he stayed and did the second service, which was so, so kind of him. But yeah, um, what I realized is I wasn't saying no to Warren. I was saying no to God because if I'm married to somebody with the call, then that call is on me as well. And I know everybody doesn't think like that, but I do. I believe if the two become one, right, and we are joined together, then his ministry has a weight on my life as well. It's also mine, you know? And so um that's what I believe. And I believe he gave me the husband that I needed and the family that I needed for the call that's on my life. So I don't give my kids this version of you could do what you want and be who you want. You could be who God said, or you'll live a life of struggle trying to figure out your way because you don't want to know, you don't want to do his way. His way is just better. If he has a plan, what the heck am I writing vision boards and talking about I want the house to look like this? And if he can do exceedingly abundantly, I don't want to put what I think on what he's going to do is always bigger and better. I didn't dream this career, this marriage is more than I thought, this ministry is more than I thought, the doors he's opened is more than I thought. So had I been so married and locked into it has to be this, you know what I mean? And manifest what I think when God dreams a bigger dream, has a better plan, has better provision. So I just decided to be open to what he wanted. And then I knew that I didn't have to be held hostage to every other first lady that I've ever encountered. Because Aunt Teresa was the bomb. She was just a beautiful lady. Her poise, her grace, her ability to endure, her ability to um face adversity with a smile. She didn't take no stuff, she wasn't no punk, but also she was a lady and a woman of God at all times. And um, that's not every first lady story. Um, but I knew that I could do it my way, the way God has called me to do it, with who all that I am. You know, I just bring that and lay it at the feet of Jesus and say, okay, God, how are we doing this? You know?

SPEAKER_02 11:08

How did you approach like bringing in your children?

Parenting PKs And Resilience

SPEAKER_02 11:13

Like once Warren felt the call, you were like, okay, this is more than a Bible study. Yeah. Now it's like, okay, the kids had already been exposed to the music and touring. This is church, bro. This is a whole different peak.

SPEAKER_03 11:25

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:26

People judging them and having whatever. Like, how did you approach that conversation with the kids about uh we're about to be pastors?

SPEAKER_01 11:32

You know, they were little. Zayah was three. I had a conversation with a three-year-old. You know, we told Krista, hey, we're gonna start a church. He was like, Yay, that's cool. Like, you know, um, and Wolsey was little, like they've grown into the fact that there is responsibility with this. Um, but I don't make it about people judging you. I'm gonna tell them God is judging you. People think I'm supposed to be, well, okay, move them out the way. What does God think? Should you be doing that? Should you be saying that? Should you be going there? Should that be your friend? You know, we make it about people because that makes us make it makes it easier for us to fight. We can fight people, but if God told you to do it and you still what they're gonna think, then that means you've just allowed the spirit of intimidation to get in the way of you hearing God because you're so focused on what people are gonna say. Oh man, people make it about, oh, and they're gonna judge, and they're gonna, you judged everywhere you go. If you go out looking crazy, people are gonna say, she looked crazy. Now, if you care, you'll go home and change. If you don't, you'll be like, I'm in a grocery store, leave me alone. You know, so I try to build strength and resilience in my kids. Yes, you're gonna be judged. It's who's not? You judge the homeless man on the streets. Of course they're gonna judge you in a church. And don't demonize people for doing it. We all do it. You see a guy coming here and he's handsome, you made a whole judgment call about who he is. You see a guy who comes in and he's not handsome and he's not dressed, you make a judgment of who he is. And you could be wrong about both. So we have to stop caring so much about what people say, and you have to know who you are and whose you are and what God has called you to. Um, and when you know that, it's you you live a little freer. You know what I mean? I don't get addicted to the compliments or the insults. I have to know who I am in God. What is God? Is my life pleasing to him? Because sometimes it could be pleasing to him and they won't like it. Will you change because of it? Well, if you're living for them, you will. You know what I mean? If they call you a dog and a cat or whatever, then you're gonna start looking for your tail. I that's their opinion. I know who I am and I know who I'm not. And so I know who I serve.

SPEAKER_02 13:26

I know who I am, and I know who I'm not. Okay, I'm sorry, I just had to get that out. I heard I heard you singing while you were singing. Um there has been too much church activity trending on our timelines. I have to get into this meeting. So before there was a Carrie Bright and the next dress, there was the Erica Campbell with the white dress.

SPEAKER_03 13:52

Lord.

SPEAKER_02 13:54

Literally. Really like just talk about it because Eric, you had on a turtleneck, bully, like

Modesty, Body, And Public Scrutiny

SPEAKER_02 14:03

long sleeve, no knee was showing, no nothing, and the states were in the like they just were upset about the white dress. Fast forward now, Carrie is facing ten times the ridicule.

SPEAKER_00 14:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:18

And I think it's really because they don't want women to be shaping in in these type of positions. Because I feel like if if you were shaped like a box, they would not have cared about that like went on like business, drank that coffee-minded business. Yeah, but you're not, and I feel like why do we fixate on these type of things? Like, why do you feel like this is something that's trending again? And then how does it feel for you knowing that you went through this before?

SPEAKER_01 14:51

Yeah, um, it's not surprising. This it's so I always say um the same demons that existed in the Bible days that criticized everybody then, them them same demons. And if you don't rebuke a demon, a demon is just gonna find a new peak person and a new generation to antagonize. Do we have a responsibility as women of God? Absolutely. I'm not gonna wear in a pulpit what I would wear to the beach. You know, um, in a photo shoot for an album, which is what the white dress was, um, I felt like it was fine. I did just have Zaya and had more curves and was happy about the weight that I lost. So I was okay in the dress. There's certain things that I won't wear in a pulpit, but I may wear it to a banquet, like to my husband's party. I had a, you know, a black dress with a split and a, you know, skinny strap and blah, blah, blah. But I wouldn't wear it in a pulpit. Um let people wear what they want to wear. She ain't your first lady. You don't go to her church. You know what I mean? You don't follow her, but we live in a world of opinions. And so you have to have tough skin. I remember uh a little bit after the white dress happened, I don't think I've ever even told this story. Um, I got a call from Aretha Franklin who wasn't calling about the dress. I was listening and I was waiting for the ask or whatever. She was calling um to check on me. And so I said, Yeah, I'm doing good. I have this album out and this song, and there was this thing with the white dress. She said, Oh, yeah, I saw the white dress. And I said, Okay. Now, you know, we know Aretha dressed how she wanted to dress and did. Um, but she said, Um, you know what you was doing when you put that dress on? I was like, She said, You know what you was wearing. You knew what you look like, and you know who you sing for. She said, just always be aware of who you sing for. Of course, I felt the rebuke and I was like, Well, you know what I mean? But I respect her enough to know that she has done both and has had experienced extreme ridicule. It's just, it comes with it. Um, people have an issue with beautiful women. They like beautiful women, but they have an issue with a beautiful woman. I'm sure someone else wore that dress and didn't get that stir, you know. So um, I think that we need a deeper conversation about Christianity and sexuality. I think that we have to address the fact that women have been responsible for the lust of men. Don't wear that because he may sin. As if when he stands before God, he could say, I only sinned because she had that dress on and I just couldn't take it. And I just couldn't control myself. You know what I mean? We have made girls and women, don't wear that, he's gonna look at you. Okay, so then you tell me, you tell me, don't dress like that because he's gonna look at you. Then I'm supposed to get married and know how to own my sexuality and my femininity. So what do we do? We leave young women and young church kids to deal with it privately and evolve in their sexuality and their comfortability and their own bodies privately, because we won't talk about it because we made it all sin. I know back in the day they would say stuff like, you know, um, I'd rather you to be scared into heaven than tricked into hell. But if I'm scared into

Femininity, Faith, And Responsibility

SPEAKER_01 18:03

heaven, then that means I'm loving Jesus out of a place of fear, not love. And so it's just, it's a lot in this conversation of clothes and how we look and how we feel. But I do think that we need to have more conversations about femininity, you know, where it fits in scripture. You know, the women that did stand out and did do great things. Like we don't know all the things that they had to endure. Because back then, they didn't even want you to speak at all. You know what I mean? Even in this country, a woman couldn't buy a house till 1972. That's the year I was born. So you have to understand that the ridicule that women come under is not just because people don't like the dress. There's a systemic thing that has been happening and how they have um made us feel bad for feeling beautiful sometimes. You know what I mean? That's why I'm happy that I grew up in the church. It was okay to be beautiful. My Aunt Teresa and my mom will be, yes, be cute. Just don't, it don't have to be the tightest thing in your closet. It shouldn't be the shortest thing in your closet. I shouldn't see your panty line, and I don't want to see your boobs. But yes, be beautiful. And when the cute guys come in here, invite them to church, just don't sleep with them. So, you know, I feel like I got the best of both worlds. I'm very comfortable in my skin, but I also wear what I want, but I'm aware of who I am and what I wear when I wear it will have an effect on people. So I'm mindful of that too. And I think there's a way to be wise and do both, you know?

SPEAKER_02 19:20

I have to go back to what they said when the cute guys come to church.

SPEAKER_01 19:25

Yes, invite them in. Don't sleep with them. Uh and when you sleep with him, he just knows you're an available piece. That does not mean he's gonna wife you up because you don't know who else is giving it to him. And so, you know, he's struggling with his faith too. So when he struggles, who does he call? The easiest one, the one who laid down before. He ain't wifing you because he ain't ready for that yet. But he does want a little booty. And if you're gonna give it to him, and then you're gonna be mad when he sleeps with somebody else because you thought my piece is gonna change his mind. Nope, didn't. He may come back to you twice, but you still a secret. And is that what you want to be? You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 20:09

That's so good. Somebody needs to hear that. That's why I had to circle back to that because I don't do that.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

Yeah, when I was dating in my church life, I knew how to walk away. And I would always say, I may cry for a good two weeks, maybe three, but I'll get over it. And I'm not a by myself kind of girl. So if it's not you, I'll be fine. Someone else is waiting. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 20:32

It's become harder nowadays, right? Because there's not a there's not enough heterosexual men in our churches.

SPEAKER_01 20:41

So there are though. Are there y'all picky? Y'all picky. But you know why? Do you know that all men evolve and become better? Tell me what married man didn't get married, and once he got married, it's like he never looked like that before. You gotta see the vision, you gotta see the potential. Yeah, okay. You know, like because how shallow is it? His haircut, his shoes, but he's got a great heart. He is handsome, he ain't swaggy because ain't nobody pulled the swag out of him yet. Now, I'm not talking about build-abear, like build-a-man, but I'm talking about being so petty. His teeth, that's gonna look bad on my pictures. Girl, first of all, you're only young and cute for a season. Then you're gonna grow old. Is this who you want to grow old with? If pretty has to have purpose, I always tell women that. If if the purpose of your pretty is just to be pretty for okay, you're pretty now what? Are you smart? Are you reliable? Do you have a good heart? Is he handsome? Is he reliable? Is he respectful? Is he a good communicator? Does he run when things are bad? Does he have a good job? Does he is he responsible on his job? You know, it's other things besides the outside. And we get so caught up on the outside. That's why girls get so mad. When dudes marry girls and they don't look like you think they're supposed to look. Her and not me. You need to check yourself because if you're saying her and not me, that means you're shallow and you think it's only about the outside and it's not about the heart. You don't know how safe that woman made him feel. You don't know how empowered that woman made him feel. Baby, I'm gonna pump mine up all day and night, and he takes good care of me. And do, you know? So yeah, yeah. It's not about the outside.

SPEAKER_02 22:30

And maybe I'm just putting on like my creative cap. But I just feel like we really need Erica to do a matchmaking show. I'm putting that in the atmosphere. Um, I will be one of the producers of the show.

Mary Mary Origins And Vision

SPEAKER_01 22:45

Yeah, you will.

SPEAKER_02 22:46

Uh because she is so good at like you know how to match.

unknown 22:50

Like, you do not know.

SPEAKER_01 22:51

But I haven't I haven't matched anybody. I just give people tips on how to be open and be the best version of yourself. Most people want to love with their fists up and live with their fist up. I'm always fighting. I don't care who's wrong or right. I don't really want to fight no more. Come on, Tina Turner tried to tell you. And a baby and a babulak tried to tell you, and y'all always in a fight. You're not gonna do this. Wait, what you do? Why you do what is that? Girl, go to therapy. You're too stressed, you're too pressed. Because even if he does make a mistake, he made a mistake. You take it personal. He did that because he doesn't think, and he doesn't think, and he doesn't think. Well, what do you think of you? Is he responsible for you feeling good about yourself, or is that your job?

SPEAKER_02 23:39

Dating show, loading call us. Okay, so I've gotta talk about our merry narrator. Yes, because that's the other thing that's been cooking in my head. Okay, so easy here's the thing. Do I need to call Tina? Yes, because we are ready.

SPEAKER_01 23:58

Caller Girl.

SPEAKER_02 23:59

A new album, Tina, please.

SPEAKER_01 24:05

She's not, she just sang at a um a BBE event with Adam. So yeah, at the Rose Room. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:12

We need the Mary's.

SPEAKER_01 24:14

Here's what I know.

SPEAKER_02 24:15

Tell us what you know.

SPEAKER_01 24:16

God's timing's perfect. I'm like, tell us God's timing's perfect. He knows the beginning from the end. He already knows when she's gonna give the yes. So ain't no need of me and us stressing. While I do want it, I really, really want it. And Warren just played some music, and I'm like, this is it. This is the next record we played it for. She loved it. Um, it's just about timing. Yeah. She loved it. It was great.

SPEAKER_02 24:40

We're we're inching there, guys. But I also would love to do like a Mary Mary just like on top of just 20 city tour. Yeah. Yeah. I I was speaking to uh coconut.

SPEAKER_01 24:58

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:59

I need wine and face too.

SPEAKER_01 25:04

Yes. Come on.

SPEAKER_02 25:07

And we're going to do that.

SPEAKER_01 25:08

Look, dark as a dark is uh all the families. Look, and then just have the walls group just cuz, just cause why not?

SPEAKER_02 25:19

Our world needs that.

SPEAKER_01 25:21

Oh I believe it. I believe it. And I think that it'll come in the right time. We've had all the calls from all the people. There's not been one tour in the last four years that didn't call us. Which I'm so so honored. So so honored. Um, just one time, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 25:39

Whose idea was it to put together like the group Mary Mary, and like what were y'all talking about? What what was like the overarching goal? Because for us growing up, before there wasn't city girls.

unknown 25:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:56

Y'all are the city girls for us.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

Oh God, don't say that. No, they have a whole different agenda. So here's what I don't do. I know. Here's what I don't do. I never take my gospel self and compare it to a non-gospel person because I literally have the King of Kings and Lord of Lords on my side. So I just don't, I'm not a fan of making it cooler because it's like something that's non-gospel. And I think church kids, we we struggle with owning the power of who we are. We struggle with owning the coolness of who we are. We struggle with understanding that when it all goes down, they want the same Jesus that we want. So we say things like, I'm saved, but not like that. I'm Christian, but not like that. I'm gospel, but not like that. That's because we've allowed a negative stigma to get on the title. Well, then change it. And I feel like that's what Mary, that was the agenda for Mary Mary to be gospel girls that are cool, not like anybody else, but creating Mary Mary and allowing it to evolve. Did we know we were gonna be a group? No, me and Tina never grew up singing together. No, we were never a group. She she sang a song with her best friend, Erica Bell, and Erica wasn't that Erica wasn't there. And I was like, oh, sing it. We sang it, and after we sang, it was like, hmm, that was pretty cool. So she was writing songs. We were saying I'm making up songs. And so

Passion Over Popularity In Ministry

SPEAKER_01 27:10

um, pause. Are my bracelets driving you insane? Sound. Okay. Um she was saying I would make up songs, and so um, of course, they were tape, we was tape recorder in the bathroom, you tape one on here, you post, you know, you sing this one, and you know, getting all the harmies. And so by the time I met Warren when he saw me at the play, and you know, we were introduced and all of that, um, he was like, Come to the studio. And we came. And Tina was like, I think like the second or third time we came, she was like, Oh, I made up this song, you want to hear it. The first song we played for him literally was our rendition of What a Friend. And um, he was like, All right, well, let's let's record some music and just see. And it was really great. And he was like, Y'all should be a group. And he came up with the name Mary Mary. And we knew there were two Marys in the Bible, but we weren't sure the connection. Of course, after digging and research, we know there's actually many Marys in the Bible, but Mary, the mother of Jesus and Mary Magdalene, you know, one considered perfect, the other not so much. Um, but they both uh were greatly impacted by the life of Jesus. They both were loved by Jesus, they were both a part of Jesus' ministry. So we tell people it doesn't matter who you are, where you come from, Jesus can change your life. Your history don't matter, where you come from, what you had don't matter, Jesus can change your life. And when that is my story, I don't need to compare myself to an RB group because that's a better story to tell, you know?

SPEAKER_02 28:28

No, it really is. And you're right, we have to own like out comparison.

SPEAKER_01 28:34

Like, and stop trying to be cool by being a little sinful. You know what I mean? Like, even our youth ministries, like, we got great gospel music to play. It doesn't always have to be something secular. No, no, no, slight to secular, you know what I mean? Um, but when we're trying to draw people to Jesus, we gotta be careful of. I know people are like, oh, the bait. You gotta be careful when the bait is something that does not represent God. So it's gonna mislead. You're not gonna, how are you gonna train them to be people who love God, are committed to God, literally live holy and live righteous and live saved? Like it's not impossible to do when you really want to do it. But when you don't, then of course you're gonna say it's hard. You know? When you don't, when your motivation is something else other than pure passion for what you do, then it's hard. Like back to the question of asking me about all the things I do. If I was only doing it to make money, but not from a real place of passion to change lives, to help women, to be creative and just share who I am with the world, then of course it would be hard. But there's a great joy that I have, like, oh, doing a radio show, oh, I get to do this. Ministry, ooh, that means I need to help people do this. And so um, when you love the God that you serve, you want to please him. Like when you're looking for something that you like, you Googling it, you know, that God, it ain't yours, but you want him to be you on his page, you're trying to see who he likes, what the girl looked like that he liked, you know what I'm saying. But when you really love God, you want to find out what his words is. You want to, what are your instructions for my life? If your plan is better than mine, what is that plan? I want to know what it is. And so um, that's a long answer. I always give long answers, but I hope that answers what you asked. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:11

I love that you are able to reinvent yourself in every

Solo Calling And Authentic Prayer

SPEAKER_02 30:18

season. Like Mary Mary takes a hiatus. Here you come. Erica Campbell, the solo artist. I'm just like, how did you know that you wanted to step out and do that?

SPEAKER_01 30:30

Well, I had like I said, we didn't grow up singing together. I was always, you know, I led songs, so I always imagined singing. I'll never forget we were at a choir rehearsal, and um, and I do this a lot when I sing. I close my eyes and I imagine that I'm literally singing to Jesus, or I'm sitting at the feet of Jesus singing my song. And it was a choir rehearsal. When I opened my eyes, people were in the floor, praising God. They had their hands up, and I said, Lord, I want to do that for the rest of my life. I want to do something that directs people straight to you. So there was it, it wasn't, you know, a superstar that I saw and said I wanted to be that. It wasn't TV, it wasn't a, you know, performance and yes, I'm gonna do that. While I loved, you know, a lot of people, it was that moment. Because baby, Evangelistic recorded the album, and I thought I was professional. I thought, what you mean? Be professional. We won the McDonald's gospel fest. What do you mean? We are. So it was literally always about giving people Jesus. Did I have this well-planned, written out life? No. I would always say I'll walk through the doors God opens for me, and you'll be surprised the doors that he opens for you when you're submitted to him more than yourself. And so, like a lot of times we have these elaborate plans and we're trying to figure out why they're not working because it's not God's plan for your life. It's something else. It's the thing that you didn't want to do, like being a first lady. And this whole praying out loud thing that I do online, I never did that. My daddy was a prayer, I never. And then, you know, the people that I heard pray, it was like, it was like old school, like Father God and you know, they prayed like that. It wasn't like, oh, baby, it was that. And so that's what I felt it had to be. So I was very intimidated even to post that. But I started the show with it, not in the show with it. And I was like, let me just start capturing it. And I just started posting it. And guess what? The prayers aren't what gets the most follows, but I'm gonna keep praying because I know that talking to the father in the language that I speak is important. And a lot of times, if we don't sound like our favorite teacher, preacher, then we feel like they can't do it. Even when it comes to speaking, I said no a lot of times because I wanted to be like Juan Eduinum. Like I went to her, I was like fangirl. I went to her events, you know, all this, you know, had got to know her for a bit, and and I was like, yes. But then whenever I would get up, it wouldn't come out like that because that's not what I was called to. You know, so I had to be comfortable in my own skin, walking my own anointing, even though I admired hers. Still do to this day.

SPEAKER_02 33:03

So that yes has now led us to laugh cry deal.

SPEAKER_01 33:07

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 33:08

Oh my goodness! I was at the first one, and we definitely didn't have crying.

SPEAKER_01 33:12

Oh yes.

SPEAKER_02 33:15

This is so fantastic. Oh man. So many women and men. And you have another installation coming up.

SPEAKER_01 33:27

I do. I do.

SPEAKER_02 33:28

But literally doing this, knowing the impact, knowing like I'm just already saying yes to Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 33:36

Yeah. It's a lot of work and it's not as easy as it seems. And we have our calls every week trying to figure out a strategize to get the message to the people, to get them in the room, to experience this move of God, right? Um, so I started it because I was one who wasn't, I wasn't, I'm not an emotional girl. Even though we have all these sisters, we don't like crying. Like if one

Laugh Cry Heal: Making Space To Feel

SPEAKER_01 34:00

of my sisters cried, we were like, shit. It's not even like, I'm so sorry, I'm crying. It's, you know, I'm gonna have thug tears if I do cry, or I'm not gonna cry. But what I realized is I was suppressing a part of myself. I was suppressing the ability to release, and we all carry so much. And we feel like we have to wear these capes and be tough and act like life don't hurt. So when it actually does, you fall apart. Or you always have a slither of depression that follows you because you can't be honest about what's tough and what's difficult and what hurt you. You know what I mean? And realize that it is okay to express your pain to the Father. Jesus wept when Lazarus died, even though he was going to raise him from the dead. He wept many times in scripture. Now, you know, the theologians can debate why he wept. He wept because he was in the arms of Jesus and he had to bring him back, or he don't, you know, whatever, all the things, but he wept. That's the example. And so um, Laugh Cry Heal was my ability to be okay with all of my emotions, not just the good ones that I like, the tough. I'm stand-up, I'm, you know, I'm resilient and I can, you know, I can face adversity and keep going. But the part that is fragile, the part that does have questions, the part of me that does get her feelings hurt more often than people think, I had to address that. And I figured if it happened to me, it was happening to a lot of women. Um, and so I created Laugh Cry Heal to help people face it and heal and get answers to questions that they can't ask on Sunday morning. And so I'm doing another one March 7th here in LA. And I'm super excited. I've got Google again and Adrian and Dr. Tara Jenkins, who's phenomenal. And um Kev on stage is gonna come and share. And um, I'm actually, I, you know, you mentioned the movie, I have a movie coming out in June, and we're gonna play a clip of it uh March 7th at uh Laugh Cry Hill.

SPEAKER_02 35:46

She is acting her behind all. Spoiler alert.

SPEAKER_01 35:56

But it's not a gospel movie at all.

SPEAKER_02 35:59

So like it's just like it kind of is.

SPEAKER_01 36:01

It's thou shall not, right? And she wasn't posted to, and she did.

SPEAKER_02 36:05

And she is me, so but how does it feel to literally be stopping in a movie?

SPEAKER_01 36:11

Crazy, crazy. Every day I was like, I'm number one on the call sheet. What? Shout out to Holly Carter who um who believed in me and believed that I could. Um, the producers of the team, everybody was absolutely great. Um, even my co-stars, they're married, happily married. And so we had conversations before about the scenes, the intimate scenes and the kiss and all that stuff. And um, they were very respectful. Um and my goal and my idea about this is we talk about when men cheat, but we don't talk about when women cheat. And we don't necessarily see the pull and how the enemy slowly pulls you and how he, you know, plays checkers and puts things in place, you know, for you to give into your flesh. So um it's definitely a message, definitely repentance. She, you know, it's a bunch of things. I don't I don't want to give it away, but it's so good. I'm excited about it. I'm excited about it. I think it's gonna help a lot of people face themselves. Um, yeah, I think it's gonna be freeing and liberating for some people, and then others are just gonna be entertained.

SPEAKER_02 37:17

Oh my goodness. Okay, so I like to play a guest with all of my guests. I like to play a game with all of my guests.

SPEAKER_03 37:22

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 37:24

And this one is more of a girls girls game because Eric, you are a girls girl.

SPEAKER_01 37:28

I am.

SPEAKER_02 37:29

You are obviously.

SPEAKER_01 37:31

Oh Lord.

SPEAKER_02 37:32

I'm going to ask you a series of questions. It's random categories. Church things, girls' things, all the things tell me. This or that, okay? Are you back?

SPEAKER_01 37:45

I think I am.

SPEAKER_02 37:48

Um for communion. Do you prefer the grape juice or the real thing?

SPEAKER_01 37:54

The real thing. But what chur no church, well, some churches do.

SPEAKER_02 38:00

You know, my father would serve the real thing, and I would be like 10 telling myself really?

SPEAKER_01 38:04

That's terrible for kids. No, I know they had to stop because a lot of people struggle with alcoholism. So, you know. But yeah, I

Acting, Temptation, And Repentance

SPEAKER_01 38:12

like the grape juice too. I just don't like them styrofoam cat them little styrofoam. Does I don't like it? Can we get crackers? There's some churches who everyone drinks out the same cup and the same bread. I don't go to that church.

SPEAKER_02 38:28

Um, okay. Wigs or natural hair? Because I know you're a hair, you're a hair guardian.

SPEAKER_01 38:33

Yeah. So um, of course, wigs, but I want to feel comfortable with my own hair. I do not want to feel like I'm only cute when I put on somebody else's hair. So every now and again on my page, you'll see me with my hair, with my hair. Just because I I have to, I want to be able to love all of myself. You didn't ask for all of that. Sorry, this or that. Keep going.

SPEAKER_02 38:57

Um morning service or Sunday night service? I feel like we don't do enough.

SPEAKER_01 39:04

I miss Sunday night service so bad. Oh man. We would go to different churches, other people would come, like, oh man, yeah, I miss I miss night service.

SPEAKER_02 39:15

Okay, so Kathy Richard's gonna start that back.

SPEAKER_01 39:17

Oh, you have to pin the ball. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 39:22

Revivals or conferences?

SPEAKER_01 39:24

Revivals. Period.

SPEAKER_02 39:28

Ubers or LA traffic.

SPEAKER_01 39:31

It's it's a it's a driver. It's a get your own driver. Both. I'm both because of the radio show, so I have to wake up. Yeah, I have to be both.

SPEAKER_02 39:46

Mexican food or soul food?

SPEAKER_01 39:50

That shouldn't be tough, but I love Mexican. I probably eat Mexican food more than I eat soul food.

SPEAKER_02 39:57

Um what's one beauty item you can't live without?

SPEAKER_01 40:06

I don't know. I think I always have a shimmer and a gloss. Even if I don't have makeup, I'll do a shimmer and a gloss. Like I had a a facial today, so I don't have much on because I want to think. Yeah, I wanted to let the skin breathe.

SPEAKER_02 40:20

Okay, great. You did good.

SPEAKER_01 40:22

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 40:23

We give her a 10 out of 10. We did a 10 out of 10.

SPEAKER_03 40:27

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 40:29

Okay, so I don't think that a lot of people know that you really are one of the kindest souls to walk the planet Earth. And I don't say that lightning just because our families know each other, but you really are like that with anybody that you encounter. You're not this person who thinks more of themselves at all.

SPEAKER_01 40:49

No, no, it's kind of gross a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 40:53

It is, but there are people unfortunately that act like that.

SPEAKER_01 40:56

For sure.

SPEAKER_02 40:57

And I think that's one of the things that I admire most about you because you make everybody feel like they are somebody.

SPEAKER_01 41:04

Well, I remember being around people and meeting people that didn't make everybody feel like that, and I didn't like it. I remember meeting one of my favorite gospel artists, and they were not nice at all. You know, I've been backstage when people are nice to other artists and rude to everybody that has to work the event or be there at church. And I just I just think that that's terrible. We're not being like Jesus. I mean, the Bible literally says if you are nicer to the person that's rich and you're meaner to the person that's poor, God is not pleased with that, right? And so um I believe everybody needs a hug and a smile. And as it relates to me being who I am, this may be the only time they see them. So if I'm mean, that's the last thing they're left with. And just I feel like you make love deposits, enjoy deposits in people's life when you just see them. Look them in their eye and say hello. Ask them how they're doing. Like when I'm in hotels and I'm walking down and the housekeepers

Rapid-Fire: Church And Life Preferences

SPEAKER_01 41:58

are there and they assume no one's gonna speak to them, I'm always like, hey, how you doing? Good job. Thank you. It don't cost nothing to be nice, it don't cost nothing to just be kind. A lot of times people are broken. To me, it's a it's a reflection of your own brokenness or insecurity if you have to be mean to people for no reason at all. Or you've been wounded and you really need to be healed in your heart and in your mind. And so you want to make everybody pay for what somebody did to you years ago. Um, I just believe in being the healed version of myself, and the healed version of myself is okay with uh giving joy or giving a smile or just saying hello, you know. And I still fan out over people, yeah. So I don't get it's not weird, you know. People are like, well, I'm not a fan. You are, that's not a bad word. Like, you don't come to my house, you like the music. That's how you know me, so it's fine. So, you know, I um I just try to be nice to people just because it's nice to be nice, and I know what it feels like for people to be mean, yeah, and so I never want to perpetuate that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:57

Well, we appreciate your nicen, your kindness, your talent to um, because it really is impactful, and you've been doing this for a while. Like you look good. Thank you, because you've been consistently serving God's people for years, uh day in and day out, like whether you felt like it or not, through sickness, any health, yeah, all of that. I uh wanted to do something because I was really just thinking about it and I was pondering, I was like, man, Erica is one of those people that she just is genuinely kind, she's the gift that keeps on giving. We were talking um Christmas. We were talking about how April, how you put on another sister. So we were talking about that, like literally, you were just like, oh well, let's do this because like there wants to be an exposure, and who do I need to call for y'all to sing at a church? Like genuinely carry that. Um And I didn't want it to have to be like a thing of like we shouldn't have to wait to celebrate people when they're long gone. You know what I mean? Like or waiting until a special occasion. Um every day's Women's History Month around here.

SPEAKER_01 44:14

Come on. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 44:16

I wanted to give you something that I had this small token done and created. So for this is our first ever PK Pot Award. Presenting you with the Woman of Excellence Award. Because you really are that girl. Like I was thinking about it, and I was thinking like no matter if it's a teenager or a grandmother, like they can glean and learn from you.

SPEAKER_01 45:00

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 45:01

Like you just really are a person that embodies a power state woman. Wow. Also, like somebody who takes their walker price seriously.

SPEAKER_01 45:14

I do. Oh this is so beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 45:19

Appreciate you. Wow. And that's you. And thank you. Thank you for just answering the call and being obedient and dealing with all of the saints and ain't.

Kindness As Everyday Ministry

SPEAKER_01 45:30

Listen, because the people be people and come on, Lena, the people gonna people. Oh man.

SPEAKER_02 45:38

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 45:39

Listen, I gotta stand before God, and I'm gonna have to give an account for how I act down here. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:46

In this day and age. Listen. But that's all we just want to tell you that we love you. Thank you. Thank you for all that you do and for being the time, beautiful soul that you are. We're excited to see what God has on this other side.

SPEAKER_01 45:59

Listen. What is it, Jesus? What are we doing next? Hello, I'm not sure. Come on.

SPEAKER_02 46:06

A little high. But no, we love you and we just appreciate you. So we wanted to honor you for a women's history.

SPEAKER_01 46:13

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 46:15

Let her know that we love her.

SPEAKER_01 46:17

Thank you. This is great. This is fun.

SPEAKER_02 46:20

Well, thank you for coming on the podcast. Um, I would ask that you leave us with a prayer for it can be families that are navigating parenting PKs and feeling the call abruptly and trying to figure out how is this going to affect their household. Yeah. Um just encourage them.

SPEAKER_01 46:45

Yeah. How about a prayer? Father, I just thank you and I praise you for this opportunity. I thank you for the PK Pod. I thank you for Jazz and our heart to give us a space to talk and be honest. Lord, I thank you for every PK, PK adjacent uh ministry kid that has struggled, Lord, because of people. Father, I pray that their heart is connected to yours, that they walk in the divine purpose, that they don't feel intimidated by what they're called to or who they have to follow. God, I thank you that they will know who they are and they will not be intimidated by the enemy in the name of Jesus. I pray that we that you block the lives of the enemy that tells them that they're not enough and they won't measure up and people will compare. People will compare, but we don't care because you have called us and equipped us and prepared us. God will keep our peace, we'll keep our joy, we'll keep our smile, and Father, we'll even learn how to stand up for ourselves and speak the truth in love while still honoring those that are above us. God, I thank you that you are making us better each and every day. I thank you that we are growing in faith and growing in grace, that we understand that you have a purpose for our life and it's much better than the one that we have. So we surrender and submit to your plan. Lord, please forgive us, God, if we've chosen other things over you. Forgive us if we've kept our eyes on people and not you. And we surrender to you totally and completely. In the mighty name of Jesus, I pray. Thank God, thank God. They will not leave the faith, they will not leave church, they will not turn away from you. They'll turn to you because you are the help, the hope, the answer, the solution, the way, the truth, and the light. In Jesus' name I pray. Thank God, amen. Amen.

SPEAKER_02 48:22

Oh my goodness, we love you and we mean it. Thank you for tuning in. Be sure to like, share, and subscribe. Until next time.

SPEAKER_03 48:33

Thank you, Eve.

SPEAKER_01 48:35

You're welcome. Yes. Okay.