The Power of Obedience with Marvin Winans Jr.

n this episode, we’re joined by Marvin Winans Jr.—pastor, creative, and member of the legendary Winans family—for an honest and inspiring conversation about faith, legacy, and purpose.

Marvin shares his journey from growing up surrounded by gospel greatness to discovering his own calling in ministry. He opens up about the defining moments that shaped his faith, the challenges of obedience, and how trusting God led him to build a church, raise a thriving family, and navigate unexpected doors in Hollywood.

We also dive into:

•  The origin story of Winans Phase 2 
•  What it was really like growing up in gospel royalty 
•  His perspective on today’s gospel music industry 
•  The blessings (and tests) that come with obedience 

If you’ve ever wrestled with purpose, calling, or trusting God’s timing—this episode is for you.

Transcript

Welcome And Phase 2 Love

SPEAKER_00 0:14

Friends, I am so excited about today's episode. We have a legend among our missed. We have an author, a father, a pastor, a husband, a rapper, a singer. I mean, I don't know what he can't do. Probably gonna try to ask him. But honestly, he's one of one. And we are super excited to have the Marvin Wanis Jr. with us on the PK Pop.

unknown 0:51

What's up?

SPEAKER_02 0:52

What's up, Jasmine? That was very nice of you. That was a really nice introduction. I was listening to him. I was gonna correct you if you were wrong or something. I didn't put out a book. So I guess I guess I am a husband.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

You want a mother. I do my research.

SPEAKER_02 1:08

Thank you. I appreciate it. And I am a father too.

SPEAKER_00 1:12

See, and you are a father.

SPEAKER_02 1:13

And four kids.

SPEAKER_00 1:14

And you are a husband.

SPEAKER_02 1:15

And I am a husband.

SPEAKER_00 1:16

And you are a past.

SPEAKER_02 1:19

See? And then I and I uh I say the rap part. People may question that part, but I know I have rap.

SPEAKER_00 1:26

Let me tell you why I say he's a rapper, okay? I know you heard a minute.

SPEAKER_02 1:38

Not the next next generation of several men of Ghana taking it to another level. Devil, what's up? Is this a joke? What's that he hoping you can crack open the couple?

SPEAKER_00 1:52

I told you he's a rapper.

SPEAKER_02 1:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:55

Wow. Okay, so we're gonna jump into phase two because Okay, that's a good place. I just thank God for you guys. No, that era in music was literally like epic for me, my friend. Shout out to Malika, shout out to all the homies because we literally be like, yo, were we the only church kids that like was fanning out over face too? Like it was so epic. I think y'all really understood that we needed our own, our own version of like gospel that wasn't super traditional, that wasn't hymns, um, and that would make us feel like we can ride to it and show our friends and play it for everybody.

SPEAKER_02 2:40

Yeah. So, you know, look, I mean, it really comes down to the fact that we were y'all age too. Yeah, you know, um, but also is uh uh we benefited from our own family, because that's what our parents did. And so my whole life, I've never expected from a musical standpoint, or honestly, anything I produce to do things um in a traditional way because my dad and my uncles and my aunts and my mom, they did it. You know, they did things that were current for their day. Yeah. So because they had made a path and they had success in doing it, you know, they were crossing over to the RB stations and stuff when I was coming up and on back then Arsenior Hall and you know uh uh uh Video Soul on BET and you know what I mean? So we when we were when it was our turn, it was a it was like, of course, this is what we're gonna do, you know. And so we made the music that you know was was current for us. And so I'm happy you enjoyed it. And Malika and your all

Dreaming Up A Gospel Reunion Tour

SPEAKER_02 3:40

your homies.

SPEAKER_00 3:40

Listen, when I tell you, like, it's very interesting, and I'm gonna just give y'all a little teaser. I had Brenda Palmer on the show, and I name dropped Wine and Space 2, and she went into a whole, like you thought I had bars. She was quoting every I said, you too. I was like, okay, I gotta put my hat on because what do we have to do to get a reunion tour? Like, we have to figure out how to get you, Dawkins and Dawkins.

SPEAKER_02 4:06

Yep. I actually said that.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

Trinity 5-7 will be cool.

SPEAKER_02 4:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:11

The Marys.

SPEAKER_02 4:12

Yeah, I actually said that too. Yeah. I think it would be a pretty dope. That would be fire.

SPEAKER_00 4:17

I think that would be epic.

SPEAKER_02 4:19

That would be pretty crazy.

SPEAKER_00 4:19

I mean, we probably gonna need, I mean.

SPEAKER_02 4:21

And I know, I know, I mean, you know, obviously, you know, we can, we could do it. We could. We have we're in relationship. Everybody's still here, everybody, you know. Everybody's still here. Yeah, Tina, Erica, Anson, uh, Eric, everybody. Everybody's here.

SPEAKER_00 4:35

Everybody's still talented.

SPEAKER_02 4:37

That would be a fun, yeah. That would be really fun. I actually brought it up last year, actually. Did you? Yeah, I was like, hey man, what would y'all, how would you what would something like this look like? So I think people will show up too. People be there for that. That'd be a fun show.

SPEAKER_00 4:53

We are coming.

SPEAKER_02 4:54

All right, Jasmine, you're making it happen.

SPEAKER_00 4:56

Listen, because listen, this is my world, okay?

SPEAKER_02 4:58

All right, that would be a fun show.

SPEAKER_00 5:01

I would love to see this happen if I gotta call Tina and tell her, come on, come on, Mary, come on, Mary, just one more time. It'll be fun. It would be epic. And I also feel like that we need that.

SPEAKER_02 5:14

We need like the nostalgia of like Yeah, everybody else is doing, you know, like people, you know, you've seen these different tours that happen to people going to see their old, you know. It it would be cool for us to do that. I think it would be a lot of fun on us.

SPEAKER_00 5:26

Yeah, and then we could have we gotta have your mom host. If we have your mom and not Carlton Banks just like tag team host it, I just feel like that'll add that comedic.

SPEAKER_02 5:38

We're doing the whole thing. Okay, so I'm gonna be. She's executive producing the producer. Yeah, go ahead and pull it all out. We gotta we gotta have her hotels and everything else.

SPEAKER_00 5:48

Yep, got it. What else we need? I'm calling I'm calling it all the games.

SPEAKER_02 5:51

I don't know everybody's writers, so you know what I mean. Don't get me in trouble.

SPEAKER_00 5:54

So but no, I would love to see y'all back on tour just one more time. That would be amazing. It would be really fun.

Aunt Debbie's Vision Becomes Phase 2

SPEAKER_00 6:02

So, whose idea was it to come together and start phase two?

SPEAKER_02 6:05

Wow, okay. So, um, to be honest, the whining's phase two concept began with my Aunt Debbie. My Aunt Debbie, yeah. My Aunt Debbie, who's now low, whining's, but Debbie whining's low. Um, I had started a group, you know, for my whole life I grew up not really. I was in studios all the time. And I didn't really want to be in the studio. I didn't, I wasn't excited about music, and I would I I wanted to be in the studio that had the best couch so I can go to sleep. If a studio didn't have a couch, I was hit. I was like, man, what is happening? I gotta be up all night. But um one day when I was 15 years old, I just got a bug for music. And I just wanted to know everything about every knob in the studio, and then I wanted to sing and I started coming. So I started a group. Me and um my cousin Mike, and then two of my friends, Lance and Carl. And uh shout out to Lance Bennett and Carl Jackson. But um, we started a group called One Way. We had one performance, okay? It was uh New Year's Eve um at my dad's church. We sang one time, it was a song I wrote. We sang a couple songs that I had written, and uh, so I thought I had my group going. And my Aunt Debbie called, I guess my uncle Carvin, and told him and his kids, Carvin and Juan, uh about this vision she saw of us four singing together. Me, Mike, Carvin, and Juan. Carvin called me. And at first I was like, but I got a group, you know what I mean? And I was like, okay, well, you know, let me pray about it and see what God is saying. Because I was serious about it. I really was trying to do this group called One Way. We went in the studio, I had recorded a little something, and um, it was at that point that God showed me that that's what I was supposed to do. Wow, and so my Aunt Debbie was the one that came up, and my Uncle Carvin took us in and started to manage us. Uh, shout out to my uncle. I don't call him Car Uncle Carvin, he's Uncle Butch. So Uncle Butchie. What's up, Uncle Butchie? Uncle Butch. And so he started managing us. And honestly, within a year, we went from having our first meeting to signed with Murray with Word Epic. We were Epic Records, and um, yeah, we had a deal and everything was on, it was on from there. That's fantastic. Yep, yep, yep.

SPEAKER_00 8:27

Shout out to Aunt Debbie coming through with the live. She did.

SPEAKER_02 8:31

She did, for real.

SPEAKER_00 8:32

She knew what was up.

SPEAKER_02 8:33

She did. I must have gave her that vision. And so that was the beginning. I was in high school. I was in, I was that would, I was starting, I think my, I was like in my uh senior year. Okay. Like toward the middle of my senior year or the beginning of my senior year. And um by the time we graduated, I had, I had, I was going to Michigan State University. I was about to add a dorm room, everything I was gonna be with my friends. One of them, Lance, and my other friend walked, they were older than me. And uh they were already up there. I checked out my dorm and everything, and then the contract came through, and it was like I had to make a decision whether I was gonna do that. The the label ended up back then, they used to do like for us, it was a blessing. We had a big contract, they did a lot for us, but they paid for our school. So I was able to go on. It was the beginning of the online school. Like, literally, we had VHS tapes. Like they we had tapes that we would watch to do everything, and um it was at um Madonna University, that was the school in Michigan. And so we ended up not I ended up not going to Michigan State. We took the contract because they were gonna be paying for our school, and we made sure that that was a thing. Two of the two of the cousins had to finish with a a tutor. They didn't even finish high school. So we were on the road from there, you know. So doing our thing, yeah. Getting in the studio with Rodney Jerkins and Narda Michael Walden and all these really wonderful producers. Uh it was a great experience. It was a really great experience.

SPEAKER_00 10:03

Listen, I love that. I absolutely love that. Thank y'all for being obedient because we've had a time to that album. I mean, we've had a time. Still listening to it. We still listening to it. Okay, so take us all the

Realizing The Weight Of Legacy

SPEAKER_00 10:18

way back. Okay, so you are the son of two legends, obviously. The whole family is just iconic. Like, how does it feel like knowing now? And I'm sure you didn't know as a kid, and I'm sure you had that moment of like, uh, we're not normal. That you you guys are all like gospel royalty. Like the Wynans family is one of the most, I was going on record to say the most iconic gospel family in the history of gospel music. Um, and so growing up with that, like, how was that for you?

SPEAKER_02 10:53

Um, at first it was just a normal family. I mean, I would get things confused. I didn't know when my dad was talking to my mom, talking about he had a date on Friday. I'd be like, why are you telling my mama that she you got a date? Like, something about that is wrong. But he was talking about concerts. I didn't know what he meant. Right. Um, you know, interviews weren't con uh what weren't job interviews. They were what we're doing. And I didn't, I just thought everything, I thought everybody's family was possibly on the radio or on uh, you know, doing magazine. It was just a family. We and they lived what they sang in front of us. We went to church, we we had fun, we played games all the time, very competitive. I just had a great family. That's what I thought. I had a bunch of cousins. I have been shocked to find, we're growing up, I was shocked to find out when people say they only had one aunt. I'd be like, you only have one aunt? What do you mean? Because on my mom's side, she has she's one of 12, and my my dad is one of 10. So I had like 21 uncles and aunts, and I don't know how many cousins. So that's normal for me. So that was how I grew up. But um it the the the time it hit me, I think, as far as the what they had done. You know, uh, like I mentioned, they would be on our cineo, I'll just go to, you know, that would be the normal thing. Or they win, they were at the Grammy Awards every year, and I would watch at home, like, oh, because they didn't they didn't put the gospel awards on. They didn't show that during the show. Yeah. So what they used to do is they would just show pictures of people who had won be in the pre-telecast. So we'd be at home just watching because they didn't have, we couldn't text and all of that back then. So we'd just be at home watching the TV and seeing if they were gonna show a picture of that category. And I see my dad on the screen with a Grammy talking to the audience. I'd be like, we won! You know, it was all of that stuff. We had a um, it was great, but that was kind of normal for me. It didn't really hit me of how I believe we were blessed. I was like 20, uh, I will say like 21, because phase two was asked to go on a wine and family tour. It was their second family tour, and we were of the age to where now we could be on it, and we had, you know, we had put out our album. Now we was the lowest on the totem pole, you know what I mean? But and they but they paid us, you know what I mean? I was, you know, but we was gonna take whatever they were giving. Um but we were at our first show uh doing a sound check in in and it was an arena in Alabama, and that's when they started coming on the stage one by one, doing sound checks. My Uncle Carvin came on, my Aunt Debbie, my Aunt Cece, Uncle Bebe, my dad, my Uncle Ronald, Uncle Uncle Daniel, everybody were coming on one by one. And my granddad, who passed away in 2009, he was at the front of the stage with each one of them. Come on, sing it for me. Praise God. He was he like I was just watching, I was sitting in the audience, I mean, it wasn't, I was sitting in the stadium, or I mean uh the arena, just sitting in the chair, just watching sound check, and watching him look at his kids. And I started to, and I realized that each one of them had their own gifting, different. Like my dad has his own style, my uncle BB, my C they all have their own different styles, even the ones that people may not know of as much. Like my Aunt Angie was like fly with it, and my uncle Daniel just killing, sounding like uh um forgetting the guy's name. But anyways, great, great style. And I started to say, oh my gosh, they all came from him and my grandma. And they get to watch, and we here in this arena, and I said, Oh my gosh. We're blessed. What a gift. And I that's when I it hit me. That was the first time it really hit me. I was probably like 21. And uh I remember when my grandma came out on stage, she was doing her sound check. He was like, Sing it, no, sing it! You know, I was you know, that was they that was their relationship.

SPEAKER_00 14:58

I love that.

SPEAKER_02 14:58

Yeah, it was cool.

SPEAKER_00 15:00

So 21, it hit you around there.

SPEAKER_02 15:02

That's when it hit me.

SPEAKER_00 15:03

I absolutely

A Seven-Year-Old Salvation Story

SPEAKER_00 15:04

love that. So obviously outside of singing, your father has been preaching and pastoring for many years, still pastoring, still preaching. Did you ever feel pressure growing up to carry that legacy as well? No. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 15:23

Um, the the fortunate thing for me, and I know that might not be, I don't look, this is the PK podcast. So I'm sure you're getting all the truth here for all the PKs, you know what I mean? And so I don't know if I am different. I I feel that I am because I hear a lot of things with regards to PKs and their experiences and things like that. Um, but I always have felt a sense that was a little different. My answer might be different because when I was seven years old, I got saved in a very special way. I mean, maybe not special, but it was special to me. Um, and filled with the Holy Spirit. I was baptized and got and filled with the Holy Spirit speaking in tongues at the age of seven. We were in visiting a church in Youngstown, Ohio. Bishop Wagner, Norman Wagner. Um and I remember I was up with my friends and he he began to speak about getting saved. And next thing I know, I was in tears walking down the middle aisle. I was up in the balcony, I came down, and then they baptized every week there, and so I got baptized. When I came up, I had stammering lips. They took me downstairs, they were you know tearing with me. I started speaking in tongues, and it was it was on from there. And the Holy Spirit had me. I remember the friends that I was with after coming up to me to play after service, and I remember thinking, I can't play. Like what I have is this is I can't play right now. I gotta something about what happened to me today is I'm I'm different. And I at seven years old. And so I moving on in my life, my relationship with God was sincere and real. And I I didn't ever feel like I had to please anybody but him. And so I think that helped me because my parents got divorced. And knowing that my dad is a pastor, my mom is a gospel singer, and she's first lady, and they both are supposed to represent what God represents, knowing that they did something that the scriptures literally say don't do, right, in my estimation, it was an opportunity for me. It was like, even if my parents are wrong, God, you're right. Because I had a relationship, and I think that is what has taken taken me through everything. So now as a pastor, I I preach that. Like you have to the the word of God is right, no matter what people do. Yeah, and if people have that, they can get through tough times. Yeah. Because God is always right, even when you want to put stuff above him, and when you your emotions and things, if you just keep him above it, just trust that his word will work out, it will.

SPEAKER_01 17:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:59

And so anyway, I I didn't have that pressure. Even with singing, because that would be that was the question I usually got too. I just wanted to please him. You know, it's like if he gave me a gift and he wants me to be used, then I I'm I'm representing him because he's number one, I want to be number one, you know,

Called To Lead And Find Love

SPEAKER_02 18:15

and that's kind of how I always looked at it.

SPEAKER_00 18:17

So then when did you feel? So you got saved at seven, but when did you feel the call or the mantle to want to preach?

SPEAKER_02 18:25

The mantle to want to preach. The mantle. Man, that is man, I didn't want to really preaching because who wanna do that? Like, yeah, and the thing is, is that my my thing was, man, my dad is doing this every single week. How can you do this all the time like this? I mean, and um, so as far as the preaching thing, I didn't preach my first sermon until I was 30 33. I think. Really? Maybe 30, 30, 30 or 31. Yeah, I I I I we can get into that, but uh that was a that was a blessing. But the but the call that you mentioned, it came to me. I was in uh West Virginia visiting friends who I now know who are your friends, the Brady's. Shout out to the Brady's and we were at this is before the Bishop Jakes that people may even know now, but honestly, he was super popular then. He was just in West Virginia in this small church where it seemed like his head was gonna hit the ceiling. I was visiting them and we went to church and watching Bishop Jakes. I'm like, how is he in this place? Because I had only seen him in big places, you know. Uh my dad would have him come to Detroit and and all these different things and uh see him on TV. And he was at this small church that he was pastoring. This is before he went to Dallas and the Potter's house. And um it was a worship moment, which I really encourage people like, man, do not um discount that the worship, you know, uh times, whether during worship or after when things are in the move of the spirit, because some of my most important things in my life, uh being what I'm about to tell you, being a pastor and being called, and also even my marriage came in worship moments where the Lord showed me, showed me who my wife was gonna be. Um but I was sitting there, I'll never forget, I was sitting there, and the Lord gave me two visions back to back. One, he showed me leading people with we all had on white, and people were following me, and I was in a I was, and right behind me were my friends, and I would put myself back in the line with them, and then he put me back in front, and I put myself back in my mind, and he put me back, and he said, No, I called you. And that was it. I was 16 years old. But then he showed me another vision and he said, Don't get the big head, because he showed me on a cross, and he showed me a bunch of people on crosses as far as the eye can see. And he said, and and there were people that weren't on the crosses, and he said, The people that are on the crosses haven't accepted the call, but I've anointed everybody on the crosses, they have accepted the call, and basically don't get the big head because a lot of people, I've called a lot of people, it's not just you. You know what I mean? So, because you can do that and be like, Well, I'm the one that's in front, but then he immediately showed me something else and said, But it's a lot of people, innumerable. It was a people I couldn't even tell how many, and so I'm humbled by that. But I was 16 years old and at Bishop Jace's church.

SPEAKER_00 21:24

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 21:24

Bishop Jace got something else to do with my my wife, which is crazy. I it's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 21:29

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 21:29

Because I went to church to find her. I know you ain't asking about that.

SPEAKER_00 21:32

No, tell me.

SPEAKER_02 21:33

But um I went to church to see him preach, and that's where I met Monique. Wow. Yes, in Detroit. He was at Straight Gate Church, Bishop Merritt's Church, and I went there to see him speak at it at their conference, and then I met her for the first time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:47

I feel like that's a whole message for every single man in here that's talking about, you know, I'm just waiting, waiting on God. You need to go to church. That's the message. That's the post. Go to church and find her because they are. In the pews, okay. They may not be in them clubs, they may not be outside, but they are inside of the church house. Okay, I'm back.

SPEAKER_02 22:07

Now we've been married 23 years, 28 years of dating, because we were dated for about five and a half, and um, and we have four kids, so yeah, that's that's my story.

SPEAKER_00 22:19

Yeah, wow. Bishop Jakes, shout out to Bishop Jakes.

SPEAKER_02 22:22

I mean, for real. I mean, I have come to realize, I was like, man, he got a lot to do with my life. But thank you, Bishop Jakes. Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 22:30

Like, I don't know if you know, but thank you.

SPEAKER_02 22:33

For real. I I haven't I don't think I've been able to tell him this since I've really put it together. But uh yeah, one day hopefully I'll tell

Launching Perfecting Home Church At 3

SPEAKER_02 22:40

him. If he hasn't watched it, maybe he'll watch this.

SPEAKER_00 22:42

Love that. Okay, so you are now pastoring Perfecting Home Church in Culver City. We are what in the world pastoring in Los Angeles? Did you ever see this in your bingo cards?

SPEAKER_02 22:56

No, not at all. I never thought this would happen. I didn't even think I would move to LA. I I never had plans, never wanted to, I had a desire to. And so, no, we are we're there. We are there, we are, you know, growing and developing. Um, and it's a really awesome, it's it's been an awesome experience. Um, going back to when we started, though, it was interesting. You know, I mentioned how I was like, uh, man, I I I can't do this every day. So this kind of goes back to the preaching thing. But the way that God got me in, he's a very wise guy. He's he's he's he he he cares. Um he's considerate, he's thoughtful. But uh we we have been at uh Oasis Church here for nine years. Uh I felt the time was up there. And it was Easter Sunday, it was Resurrection Sunday. Uh was my final week there, and I was just like, God, I know this is it here, and I know I'm supposed to go. I'm not I just felt like I had graduated and when I thought about going to another church, I didn't see it. Like I was like, going to serving with another pastor or something. I was like, man, I just don't feel it. I said, so I was in the middle of the week, and I was like, but God, my kids gotta get the word. Because I didn't want to be, you know, we just at home one Sunday and then we at home the next week. I'm like, I'm not supposed to go now. Like, well, my kids gotta get the word. And God said, you teach it to them. And I was like, oh. And so I knew then, I said, wait, because I had to think about it. I was like, oh, I gotta preach. I said, wait. I said, oh, I got enough in me to teach them. Yeah, for sure. They kids, you know what I mean? And so it was like, they, you know, 10. He probably was, what's it maybe about three, three years ago? So he was like 10, 11, 10, and eight, a five, six, three-year-old. I'm like, we could do this. So we sat around that Sunday, around our dining room table, my wife, my four kids, uh, we did a little praise and worship, and then I taught them the first message I did was Jesus is the cornerstone. I said, I can, I know what I would want them to know, you know, that he's the beginning and he's the he's the start, he's the foundation. And so that's where we started. And so we did that the the first week. So we just we started at three o'clock. So our services are at three o'clock every week. Anybody wants to come to Perfecting Home Church in Culver City, three o'clock. Um, but and that's what it still is, but that next week, because you know, when you're doing your own thing, you're going to have to church, you're doing the stuff. People have things on Sunday sometimes. And my wife was like, Do we have to um can we do it a little earlier or can we do it a little later for this week? I was like, No, we have to do it at three. We have to, it has to be real to us before it can be real. And so um, I was like, even if y'all don't come, I'm gonna be sitting there. You know what I mean? Because I think it was something at three had to do. So I I don't know if it, I think she had she went with him, but I had the other three. They could they didn't go. So we just and we just kept going week, week, week, and then it became real, like every Sunday, three o'clock here at Dallas. And then we started inviting people, and and then she started doing charcuterie board, and people come, and then we started Zoom, and then people would tune in, and so we just kept going. And and then we officially launched um a uh service for the public. Yeah, uh uh like a year and a half August 6, 2023. So it's been two years and about two and a half years now. So it's been great.

SPEAKER_00 26:37

That's a blessing. Yeah, man. I love that. I absolutely love how you started with your family.

SPEAKER_02 26:43

It's called perfecting home.

SPEAKER_00 26:44

Yeah, like you literally started with your kids and you were like, I'm gonna perfect home. Literally.

SPEAKER_02 26:51

Yeah, that's what we that's what we were doing. And I realized the time, you know, because for years I've been asking God, when, when, when. So think think about it, 16 years old. And now I'm I'm 40. I think I'm 42, 40, maybe 41. And it's just like when, when, when. Um but I think he developed us over that time for the call on our church. So now at this point, we've been married 20 years, 21 years. We have kids, four of them, and we've gone through so much to we have a lot of development, you know, a lot that we can actually share. And so it's just it was a it was the timing of God. And so um

Raising Acting Kids In Los Angeles

SPEAKER_02 27:35

I'm all for waiting on when God wants to do something because he knows better.

SPEAKER_00 27:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:40

Okay, so you've mentioned your kids several times, and I definitely want to talk about your fantastic kids who are a couple of them are navigating acting and on shows like Abbott Elementary and Forever on Netflix. And I'm just so freaking curious. Like, did you see this type of legacy like infiltrating Hollywood? Like coming from, you know, gospel and preaching, but did you coming from Detroit? Coming from Detroit. Let's just keep the fuck. We come from Detroit, okay?

SPEAKER_02 28:16

What's going on? How do we get to Hollywood? Yeah, no, 100%. My goodness. I know I didn't see it. But when I was there, this interestingly enough, when I I remember, you know, my dad asking me when I was young, probably was like 15 or something. Um, I think he asked me something about what I wanted to do or did I want to preach or something. I something something. I don't remember exactly, but I was like, man, I want to be on TV. You know, I wanted to act. I wanted to uh I saw myself on a sitcom and and I did some acting as a kid. I did some traveling with tours a little bit for plays and and I did musicals at the school and I was in my mom's music videos. Thank you, mom. She she she would always hook me up. Um, but no, I didn't see it. But when we were gonna move, we lived in Tampa for five and a half years, Monique and I. We just had had my son, uh, three, and I produced a film while I was there. I produced a movie called Dreams, and it came out on Lionsgate. Um, and so when we moved out here, there were ties, two different things like that. And so my mind was open to it, and I felt God was leading me because my wife didn't really want to move from Tampa at the time. But one of the things I was told, I was like, and you can manage three's career. Three is our son, the third. He's Marvin Wine is the third. Um, but I was just like, you can manage him. We can get an agent. I knew somebody from back when we were at Epic Records with the with the wine in his face too that had I seen him on TV. And he was, he was our he was a uh uh his name is Reese. Reese uh Maurice Warfield, and he was like our promotions radio uh promotions guy with with with Epic. And I he was like, You guys are gonna forget me, you're not gonna remember me. And I was like, Man, I'm not gonna forget you. And I kept his number and I saw him on a commercial once. And he was, I was like, man, that's Reese. And I hit him up, I was like, man, so we stayed in touch. Wow. And so I asked him, could he help us get an agent? And so we ended up getting with his agent from my son. So that that helped us move here, you know, just that piece. So he was one and a half with an agent.

SPEAKER_00 30:26

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 30:27

She didn't even want to be uh agent to babies of kids, but she took it because we were kind of persistent. So she took it, and then that started our whole thing. And so now all of the kids are acting, and not just a couple of them there in, like you said, Abbott. That was the you know, one of the main thing, major things that happened. And um, but my son was in is in forever. He was uh my daughter is right now in Percy Jackson um on Disney Plus, which is uh huge show. And um I just really I never I never I was in a point one time I was driving Uber here. Yeah and I was like in the car, knowing that things were tight, you know, LA ain't no joke. Yeah. And you have to be um, you have to know what God has said for you. That's good. Because when he says something, it's it's not a question of whether you should stay, it's a question of when he's going to provide and come through. It's I'm I'm never leaving this, so Lord, what are you gonna do? This is on you. He's the one that's gonna keep his word. Yeah, and he has the ability to do it, he has the strength to do it. And so anyway, I'm driving and I have at this point probably like two, three kids, and and I'm like, okay, God, what's up? But somebody in the car was talking about, oh man, you got kids, you know, you're gonna have to all that college fund and you're gonna have to pay for this, that. And I was thinking, like, man, I didn't even think about all of that. You know what I mean? I'm just, you know, my wife and I having kids, you know. We it took us a minute to have our first.

SPEAKER_01 32:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 32:04

But after eight and a half years, we had our first. And then once the faucet came on, I didn't know how to turn it off.

SPEAKER_00 32:09

So we got four kids and we're trying to feel like fruitful and multiply.

SPEAKER_02 32:12

Uh and now I'm like, God, what's going on? So it's amazing to now see that they are making their own money.

SPEAKER_00 32:23

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 32:23

And you know, the Lord will provide. Yeah, and so this is a really great story, and it's a testimony. And it also just feels that there were lots of different decisions I could have made, but I tried to stay to what God was telling me. It was points where I was starting, we start in a church, and it's like, baby, I don't know. All I know is this is what I'm supposed to do. Yeah, and it ain't like that's making no money, and uh it's like, but this is what I'm supposed to do. And God does what he does. And and I've just been amazed by it. But I think um we are living out the benefits of obedience. And that is kind of what I I really want people to understand is that if you obey God, it comes with some stuff. He says, Seek first the kingdom of heaven. He said, and and his righteousness, which is the alignment, you want to be in right standing with God. And then he says, I'll add this stuff. It may not be your focal point. I'm looking this way, and he's just putting stuff on me. So when I step back and I see it, people see what God has done. It ain't what I did.

SPEAKER_00 33:29

Yeah, that's good.

SPEAKER_02 33:30

It's not. I tell my church members, like, y'all, I'm whack. I said, I got a beautiful wife, wonderful kids. We live in Beverly Hills, all these wonderful, y'all see stuff. I said, I'm I'm whack. This is all the benefits of obedience. I don't know how any of this stuff happened to me. I wouldn't have been with my wife because I was shallow enough to think I wanted to break up with her because the first week we were together, we went out. I didn't like how her hair looked. And I looked at this other girl and I was like, hey man, I want to be with somebody whose hair looks like that. I wanted to break up. I was telling my cousin, I was like, dude, I want to break up with Monique. But God had already told me she was my wife. So I had to get in alignment. Come on, I'm preaching. This is a why I had to get in alignment.

SPEAKER_00 34:10

Not the hell wasn't what you wanted.

SPEAKER_02 34:12

It wasn't what I wanted.

SPEAKER_00 34:13

We really focused on the wrong thing.

SPEAKER_02 34:16

But it was real, but it's real, yeah. And and and that got me through that moment, his will. Then when she was going away to college, I didn't want to be in a this is after we were together for a year. I didn't want to date nobody in Tennessee. She went to Tennessee State. Yeah, I didn't want a long-distance relationship. I wanted to break up. But God had told me she was she was my wife. So I had to learn how to be a boyfriend from hundreds of miles away.

SPEAKER_01 34:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:43

And that prepared me to be a husband. And so I didn't know that that would happen. And I didn't know she'd be the flyest best wife, the perfect wife, the most incredible um mother and friend for the rest of my life. That I I thank God for I didn't know that all of these wonderful, that she her hair was actually okay. She has a I love beautiful hair. Her mom is actually a hairstylist. Her mom is an actual, she's uh she owns a salon. Glamorous salon. Shout out, mom. Um uh uh glamorous salon in Lathrop Village, Michigan. Love that. And so anyway, God's will seek him first. He'll add all this stuff to you, and um that's what I believe he did with my kids. It's like, you don't have to worry. I got I got all of this and it's a and a lot more in store for you. One, because he had already shown me who I was. So this stuff is only lining up with what I saw, but I didn't have to pursue it. I just had to pursue him.

SPEAKER_00 35:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:49

Which is an interesting, kind of deep thing.

SPEAKER_00 35:51

I love that. First of all, you can tell he's a pastor because he's over here preaching. Okay. You can sow your seeds to perfecting home church. I'm sorry. Cash Abzale, all of the things. No, it's good and it's needed. Because that it's something about I I am a an an obedience girly, and I have to keep saying that until I'm like a hundred percent. But I love it because it's something about the perks of obedience that just you can't buy it, you can't beg for it. It's literally, it's divine. In it. It's like it's only God.

SPEAKER_02 36:26

Well, think about when your parents ask you to do something. Or if you're if you're a parent and you have children, I don't know if you have children or not. If you if you if you have children, um think about if you ask them to do something and they do it.

SPEAKER_00 36:42

Yeah. Yeah. What does that mean? You get happy.

SPEAKER_02 36:45

Man, I'm gonna give you a you're gonna get an extra happy meal, you're gonna get an extra toy, you're gonna get a good even if they don't know that it's doing something for them, them doing it, it's just like, oh I gotta give you this. Yeah. You've been such a you've been such a good kid. Yeah, you've been, you do everything I ask. Of course you can do this. Of course you can have this. And then stuff you ain't even know. Let me just get you this. Because we love it. You're just so good. But the kid that's always giving you problems, that's like, hey, do this. Oh, I I I forgot. I ain't wanna do that. I don't know. What am I gonna do? Why you aren't creating the space for me to do what it is I want to do because I can't trust you with what I ask you to do. I love it. You know, and if I give you more stuff, you might not be able to do what it is you're supposed to do with it, and it it it'll make things worse for the things that you should be doing. Yeah, because if you get this extra stuff, you certainly ain't gonna listen. If I give you an Xbox and you don't listen to me for any of the main things like school and all that stuff, an Xbox is only gonna make school worse. So I can't give it to you.

SPEAKER_00 37:51

Literally. I love that. I absolutely love that. Okay, you

Obedience As A Parenting Framework

SPEAKER_00 37:55

just said something that made me want to ask you a really random question. Okay. Um, were you a good kid growing up, or did you get in trouble a lot? Like, I'm just curious to see if you were the obedient child or if you were the one that they have to, you know. All right, come on in here.

SPEAKER_02 38:12

One more shout out to my big brother, Mario Steeter. Because I think he helped me stay better than I probably needed to be, because I think he got in trouble enough. Okay, good, good, good. So I was good. And then um, yeah, I wasn't, I I I listened. I listened. I did get in trouble, but I listened. I was uh, I think I was pretty cool on that front, you know.

SPEAKER_00 38:35

Um has that affect like your parenting style now with your kids?

SPEAKER_02 38:40

Yeah, well, yeah. Well, well, I think just your life affects how you parent. And because part of that though was I wasn't I was I was good with the personality. So when I say that, I'm like, I knew, I knew how to get the teachers a little bit mad, but because they liked me enough, they wouldn't, like we were still cool. And you know, I I wouldn't get in, I would I would push it right before the detention. Because I didn't want, I wasn't about to have no suspension. I wasn't about definitely about to be expelled. I was gonna get good grades, I was gonna listen in class, I wasn't because I didn't believe in like like homework and stuff. I was like, man, and like I would do it, but my point is is like man, if I'm here, if I'm here, yeah, I might as well listen to y'all because I what's the point of being here? I gotta get up and come here.

SPEAKER_01 39:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:37

But I was a kid that I like I said, I pushed the envelope because of my because I had personality. But I but I didn't want to go on the other side because I knew a whooping was waiting if I was bad. A whooping was waiting. Yeah, it was waiting. So there was a line, and that's that's that's stupid to cross that line.

SPEAKER_00 39:57

Because why do I want a whooping? That's stupid. Absolutely not.

SPEAKER_02 40:00

But I want to have fun. So I had fun. It was just like Yeah, to a certain extent. Right, you just got to test it. We right here, right, right. Just a little bit. Yeah, so I think my teachers like me, and um, but I certainly wasn't doing nothing like blatantly disobedient. Like I wasn't about to be, if they told me not to go somewhere, I'm not going there. Yeah, you know what I mean? And you know, some people had their ways of doing things that they wasn't supposed to do. So I I saw the I saw the the um, I don't know, what you call it, dude. We saw the light, really, and then you like, I'm not doing that. When you didn't do it, yeah. So that's how I was. Okay. A little coconut, we a coconut and skeeter. That's what that was us growing up. We had fun. And he was so talented, my goodness, just watching him develop into who he became um drummer and all of the drum machines. He used to have the glow-in-the-dark sticks, and you know, like um what's her name? Goodness, I'm about to say she's Lee. All of those things, and then, you know, the little drum machines they would get him. It's just I but um that I learned a lot from him. Um some some what not to do and and what to do. So it was really cool having him growing up.

SPEAKER_00 41:14

I love that.

Who You Got Gospel Edition

SPEAKER_00 41:15

Okay, I like to play a game with all my guests. Okay, game. I hope that you are good at this.

SPEAKER_02 41:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 41:20

You will be. Um, this game is called Who You Who Do You Got? Okay, very ghetto. Who do you got? I'm going to give you some people.

SPEAKER_02 41:28

I don't even know if you need to put that do in it.

SPEAKER_00 41:30

Who you got?

SPEAKER_02 41:30

Okay, who you got? Yeah, okay. Who you got?

SPEAKER_00 41:32

Who you got? So I'm gonna give you some artists and maybe a couple of non-artists, and you tell me who who you got.

SPEAKER_02 41:41

So All right, artists and non-artists, who I got. All right, here we go.

SPEAKER_00 41:45

So, for example, if I say, would you prefer Bobby Jones Gospel or Sunday's best?

SPEAKER_02 41:50

Oh my gosh, why are you doing this?

SPEAKER_00 41:51

Yep. Who you got?

SPEAKER_02 41:53

Sunday's best.

SPEAKER_00 41:54

Ding ding ding. All right, are you ready?

SPEAKER_02 41:58

You know, this puts you on the spot. Everybody out there, if I don't peeky, you don't get to do a disclaimer. I love you already. You know, she's forcing me to say I'm under duress. You understand? This is her fault. These are her answers, actually.

SPEAKER_00 42:12

Dun dun dun. Okay. This is this is fairly easy, though.

SPEAKER_02 42:16

Okay, come on.

SPEAKER_00 42:17

In my opinion. Okay. Donna Lawrence or Richard Smallwood. You gotta think fast too.

SPEAKER_02 42:25

Richard Smallwood.

SPEAKER_00 42:26

Okay. All right, God's property or the Tri-City singers.

SPEAKER_02 42:32

God's property.

SPEAKER_00 42:33

Ooh, okay. Dietrich Haddon or Toney?

SPEAKER_02 42:37

Dietrich Haddon.

SPEAKER_00 42:39

Okay. Daryl Walls or Tim Bowman.

SPEAKER_02 42:42

My cousin. Tim Bowman.

SPEAKER_00 42:44

Shout out to Tim. Shirley Caesar or Dodge.

SPEAKER_02 42:47

And it's Tim Bowman Jr., by the way. I have an uncle.

SPEAKER_00 42:50

Yes, that is Tim Crusade.

SPEAKER_02 42:51

And he's lying too, okay.

SPEAKER_00 42:52

Yes, he is.

SPEAKER_02 42:53

Don't let nobody disrespect you, Uncle. Just because your son sing it, don't you are the man. Who is he?

SPEAKER_00 43:01

You know Tim Bowman Jr. He is literally gonna be lying now.

SPEAKER_02 43:05

Who is he?

SPEAKER_00 43:07

Shirley Caesar or Dottie Peoples?

SPEAKER_02 43:10

Shirley Caesar. I love Dottie though.

SPEAKER_00 43:12

Martha Manusi or Judy McAllister.

SPEAKER_02 43:15

Martha Manusi.

SPEAKER_00 43:17

Okay. Dorinda Cart Clow or Cece Wynus. Obviously.

SPEAKER_02 43:23

Okay, yeah. Auntie Cece and Dorinda. I love Durinda too.

SPEAKER_00 43:27

We love them both. See, that was easy. I gave you all easy answers. That's it. That's it. I didn't even curve ball you. He passed, y'all.

SPEAKER_02 43:35

Thank you very much. Yeah. Uh no, Dietrich

Streaming Changed Gospel Music Economics

SPEAKER_02 43:40

is just, he was very important. He was very, he was special. Yeah?

SPEAKER_00 43:44

Yeah. Oh yeah, he's from Detroit too.

SPEAKER_02 43:45

Yeah, he's from Detroit. And uh he had uh God's gonna uh God's gonna bless you too. Nice when he came out his first record, phase two was listening to that in the car and sitting in front of Benegates. We was just like, man. This is crazy. We was listening to it. This is before we came out with our album. Really? And he had a bunch of great records on that. Yeah. So. Shout out to Pastor Had. Yeah, yeah. He's also pastor here in LA as well. Yeah. Demita and the whole thing. They used to have a group. They used to have a group. Demita and her sister. Those names, uh, oh, it's coming to me. Uh Adoration and Praise. Y'all don't know about Adoration and praise. I don't know about Adoration, but I knew that. Adoration and Praise. Shoot. Detroit.

SPEAKER_00 44:30

Detroit has some of the most talented, like gospels. Like, so many greats came out of Detroit. Yeah, a couple. Like. A couple. All of them. Okay, Detroit.

SPEAKER_02 44:41

All of them.

SPEAKER_00 44:42

Let's name them. I mean, I mean, they not LA, but they Detroit. So we're going to be.

SPEAKER_02 44:46

Are you kidding me?

SPEAKER_00 44:47

Because we have talent here too.

SPEAKER_02 44:49

Two is the operative word? But we are Detroit. What are you talking about? We're not even going to. You know what? Let's just stop. We don't even have to go there. Y'all do y'all own research.

SPEAKER_00 44:58

Y'all are not gonna play. I just say Fred Hammond.

SPEAKER_02 45:01

Okay, let's just keep going.

SPEAKER_00 45:02

Okay, y'all got Fred. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 45:03

We have everybody. The whole Clark Sisters, all of the wine.

SPEAKER_00 45:07

All the wine is. Let's just stop. We can stop. Let's just stop. Dietrich Hadden. Okay. Let's just stop.

SPEAKER_02 45:12

Marvin Sapp.

SPEAKER_00 45:13

The gospel, the gospel greats are from Detroit.

SPEAKER_02 45:16

They're here. They're they're well, they're in Detroit. They're in Detroit. There's a lot of people everywhere else. God blesses all people, okay?

SPEAKER_00 45:22

But Detroit got something on it, though.

SPEAKER_02 45:24

We bless all the nations through the seed.

SPEAKER_00 45:28

Detroit is very special.

SPEAKER_02 45:30

Um it's probably the chips that I used to love growing up. Better made chips. Better made hot chips? Anybody out there? Put it in the wherever this is gonna live in the chat. Better made hot chips. If y'all know about better-made hot chips, better made hot chips. Better made hot. I'm telling you, people gonna people are gonna like those.

SPEAKER_00 45:45

Okay, so coming from Detroit, knowing all that you know about how how incredible of the gospel scene that stems from there, what's your purview on the currency of gospel music?

SPEAKER_02 46:00

Like man, we've evolved a lot. Now we are okay. I just I okay, I I mean, I'm I I I fight between having, I try not to be, I try not to have a lack of hope. I am in the middle of fighting. And it has nothing to do with the talent. Yeah, it has nothing to do, it's more so the industry and the and the business, and how um, you know, you can create music. Anyone can create music with Suno, you know. So I have like a whole, and then with with the way that um streaming is I have um just a slight, like uh I'm I'm just hoping, I'm like, I maybe I can be the change to because I there's so many talented people that are not getting the opportunity to be seen the way now. It's crazy because you have more opportunity now than ever too. Yeah. But because there's so much, the bar is so low to create, it makes those who maybe have talent not be seen, their talent and things like that. But as it relates to um, so that's not your question, I don't think. I think that's over here, but it just kind of comes in at the same time when I'm thinking about it. Um, but it has changed, you know, and that's part of the reason. Um I don't really know what's going on. I I'll be honest, I really am not focused on the music industry as much. Um I I have a whole bunch of music that I haven't released, like really cool stuff that I have not put out because of the business part of it and trying to understand how to move forward. But um I I see things from here here and there. I I know that there's talent, but honestly, what happens when I hear somebody sing or I hear somebody put out something, I immediately kind of get a little sad. I'm being being honest because I feel like I don't know if anybody's gonna hear this. You know, they they may get a thousand, they may get a thousand, they may get a hundred thousand, they may get 150,000 views, they may get a million views. Yeah, but I know what that means from them from a financial stance, and I know that that won't they can't continue to make that music. So I almost can't get excited. Like back then, we may have disappointed a lot of people because Winus Phase 2 came out with another album. We sold a quarter of a million albums, and people, the record company wanted us to put out another album. We just didn't, and that was just that's a whole story. But that wasn't because it wasn't successful. Yeah, it's like, well, you come out, you make good quality stuff, you do videos, you travel, and you put out an album and it does well, and then you come out with another and another, and that's when you saw people and you saw careers and you can watch and grow with them. Now, if I see somebody come out with a video and I just happen to see it because I saw it in my feed or something, it's like, oh man, that's dope. But I don't even know how to participate. Yeah, I can't go buy their album, I can't make them successful. If I listen to it once on Instagram and I'm like, oh, that was cool. What am I supposed to do now? Yep. I'm not even supposed to go buy anything. It's like maybe I'll see another Instagram post they do one day and I'll love it for the minute and a half. Yeah, I don't know how to support them.

SPEAKER_00 49:15

How do we support them? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:17

And so when I see talent, um I a lot of times hear it, be like, yeah, that's that's really good. And then I just go back. I honestly, um, and so thank God for the ones that are doing really well. You got like Maverick and um um uh I'm just forgetting names right now, um, Tasha and you know, you know, I want my I want my cousin Tim to have a very successful because he's done a lot of things online, but there's not like an album, and I know he's working on something, another one. I used to manage him, but he's working on another project. And but my point is is I want people, I wish it could be back what it was.

SPEAKER_00 49:58

It was, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:59

You know, and so it's just it's an interesting layer of the land. Yeah, you know.

How To Connect And Visit Church

SPEAKER_00 50:05

Um, okay, I could talk to you all day, but this has been amazing.

SPEAKER_02 50:08

Thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_00 50:10

I absolutely enjoyed this. Coconut was on the PK5 season two.

SPEAKER_02 50:16

This is good.

SPEAKER_00 50:16

Okay, tell the people where they can follow you.

SPEAKER_02 50:19

Oh all the things. Yeah, um, my name is Marvin Wynins Jr. with the JR. So you can just at Marvin Winance Jr. in, you know, Instagram and all of those places. You can find us at perfectinghomechurch.com. We are in Culver City. The name of the building is Veterans Memorial Building that we're we're in in Culver City. Uh it's 4117 Overland Avenue, Culver City, California, 90230. It's at 3 o'clock, y'all. So if y'all overslept, y'all still can get up and come. Y'all got time. Or if you went to another church, you just want to visit us, you can always come by. We'd be happy to have you and welcome you home to Perfecting Home Church.

SPEAKER_00 50:57

I love that. You guys, you heard it here first. Till next time. Peace.

SPEAKER_02 51:04

Bye.