Why Are You Charging for a Book You Didn't Write?" A Father's Day Conversation on Pastoring

It's a Father's Day edition of Thee PK Pod, and this one is personal. Jasmine sits down with her own father, Bishop Clifton Edwards Jr., for a conversation that goes from LA gospel history to hard truths about the current state of the church.

Bishop Edwards has been pastoring for over 35 years. He brought Yolanda Adams to LA before anyone knew her name, worked alongside Thomas Whitfield, Maddie Moss Clark, and a list of gospel legends most people only read about. In this episode he gets honest about money in ministry, including the moment he questions pastors charging people just to access them as a covering. He calls out what he names "pastoritis," a generation chasing the platform without wanting the process, and explains why he's never wanted to be famous.

They also get into his new venture, the Episcopal Training Academy and Conference, built to help pastors get the theological education the pulpit doesn't always require. And because no PK Pod episode is complete without a game, Bishop Edwards ranks his top three preachers of all time and goes head to head in a round of "This or That" covering gospel legends from Thomas Whitfield to Hezekiah Walker.

A father, a bishop, a mentor to half of gospel music. Press play. Subscribe. 

To learn more about the Episcopal Training Academy visit https://www.etacademy.net/

Transcript

Fathers Day Welcome With Bishop Dad

SPEAKER_04 0:14

Friends, we are back with a very special episode of the PK Pod, where we all have platforms, but they may not be the pulpit. But today's guest is his occupation is the pulpit. He is a bishop in the Lord's church. He is my covering, huh? He is my spiritual father, huh?

SPEAKER_00 0:43

Come on, Jazzy.

SPEAKER_04 0:45

He is my paternal father. Y'all make some noise for the right reverend. Doctor, soon to be doctor. I call him the bishop. That's how he's labeled in my name. Clifton Network Jr. Jessie, Jesse, Jesse. Welcome to the PK Pod. This is our Father's Day edition.

SPEAKER_00 1:12

Oh man. Oh my.

SPEAKER_04 1:14

Oh my. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:15

I'm so honored.

SPEAKER_04 1:16

I was gonna say it's an honor.

SPEAKER_00 1:18

I am so look, you a celebrity now. Oh, please. Thank you, daughter.

SPEAKER_04 1:23

Tell my account that. Tell my account that I'm a celebrity. It's manifesting. Yeah, we gotta speak those things that are not. Come on, somebody. I am. This is probably one of the most requested episodes. Like, I've gotten so many like messages, people trying to figure out who I am. You're like, what? Um, like she just appeared. We know she works in music. She knows, like, but listen, I had to bring you on.

SPEAKER_00 1:53

Unbelievable.

SPEAKER_04 1:54

Um, Mo also, shout out to Mo Dave. You know, Maurice loves Mo loves you. Um, it was like, jazz, we are ready. We are ready.

SPEAKER_00 2:03

He just loves it.

SPEAKER_04 2:04

He loves you.

SPEAKER_00 2:05

He just loves it.

SPEAKER_04 2:06

But there's been so many people from Nissan and B Slade that have been referencing you on the pod, and I'm like, you know what? We gotta hear from the horse's mouth. So, so much to discuss, so much to talk about. Um, people, when they see me, right? They always ask me, like, or assume I know everybody. Oh, Jazz, Jazz knows everybody, you know everybody, but they don't really understand that. Oh, you, you man of God. I get it from my father. This man knows everybody. Like, I mean, growing up in church, I had the privilege of being in services with, I mean, you name them. Like, who has Charlie Wilson come in to a service and doing a concert randomly?

SPEAKER_00 2:58

That was amazing. That was that was an amazing moment. Like, that was that was crazy.

SPEAKER_04 3:04

Charlie Wilson, we've had Rance Allen, we had DJ Rogers, we've had John Black, we've had, I mean, you've been doing concerts with Uncle John P. Key, Uncle Sean McClum. Like, I mean, you've all of the giants knew about a little church called Antelope Valley Christian Outreach in Lancaster.

unknown 3:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:26

Take us back. Like, what?

SPEAKER_00 3:28

Yeah, it it was amazing. Um, when I was my father's menstrel, minister music, and you was just a little girl. It started in Los Angeles. Gospel of Christ, Apostolic Church, 610s, Florence, in the hood. And we did some great things there. Um back in '85, I think we did uh, I was the first one to bring Yolanda Adams to Los Angeles.

SPEAKER_04 3:54

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 3:54

Okay, those that know me know this. Um everybody else that's watching this podcast. I am a Whitfillian. I am a Thomas Whitfield fanatic, always will be Thomas Whitfield for life. And so the thing with Yolanda was um she was the first artist he had produced. And because I love Whitfield and I love that production, that production of that first solo album is it's in my hall of fame. And so I reached out to her booking management right off the back of the album. It flew her out. And my group at that time, Ice, the Inspirational Coral Ensemble, we went to Wilshire E. Bell. I did the whole production, I did the whole concert. I looking back, I didn't know what I was doing. I was just doing my thing. And it was always done in excellence. And uh, we backed her up. We had Calvin Rohn on that ticket, Pastor Calvin Bernard Rone, dear friend of ours. Matter of fact, it was you should call him Uncle, it was Calvin Roan when you were in your mama's belly. He sang so that she went to labor with you. She she Calvin Roan pulled you on out of there. So he was one of our, he was a mainstay that would come by. Um, so back in the day, Keith Pringle, I was a Keith Pringle fan of uh Thomas Whitfield. People thought I was from Detroit because I had this, it was something about the Detroit sound that grabbed my ear. And I was, I was always, I could tell when somebody came from Detroit, they had a certain sound musically

LA Gospel Roots And Music Legends

SPEAKER_00 5:30

when they played, when they sang. So from there, from LA, then I had Thomas Whitfield. I was the first one to bring Thomas Whitfield. He did a workshop at my dad's church a year before I went into the pastorate. And the following year he passed away and it broke all of our hearts. But at that concert, Andrew Goucher came by the church. Keith and Kenneth Crouch, which was the nephews of Andre Crouch, who were producing everybody in RB. Quick story with that. They were sitting while we were doing the workshop rehearsal, and it was closed to the public because we're getting ready to do the concert. And we had, you know, when you're doing original music, you don't want nobody recording it. So they were sitting in the afternoon. They had walked in the back of my dad's church. So I got up and hey, hey, sir, these rehearsals are closed. You can't. And they were so nice. Oh, we understand. We'll be back when. And then somebody tapped me and said, Do you know who that was? I said, No, that was Kenneth Keith Crouch. These are million-dollar producers, these are Andre. I said, Oh my God. So when I saw him again, I said, I'm so and they were laughing. They said, Oh no, no, no, no. No, you're all right. It's cool. So I met so many LA finists, James Brown, JB, we called him. Uh that's when I met him, and we became friends forever. And I took my little brother Sean, he was on anything that I did. And Donald Sykes, one of the greatest organists of our time, who now's in Las Vegas. So those were glory days, and in real time, I didn't know what I was doing or what I was creating. I was just doing my own thing.

SPEAKER_04 7:13

Wow. Did you feel like that was your purpose and calling for that season? Like that God was calling you to that, or was it just something that you were interested in doing and wanting to just navigate?

SPEAKER_00 7:24

I felt it was a calling. I was I always had vision. So before you were born, when Lamar was born, my guy Mars, shout out to my son.

SPEAKER_04 7:36

We know he's Lamar Dante Edwards. I just did that because little sister privileges.

SPEAKER_00 7:43

The funny thing is, his grandmother would call him LD. Uh-huh. Lamar Dr. LD. Granny, rest in heaven. But when Lamar was born, my vision for Lamar, my first record by faith, uh it was in, it was on, he had his own record label. It was called Lamar Records and Tape. Lamar Records and Productions. So all of the all of the concerts I did was Lamar, LP, Lamar Records and Productions. He had his own. So my thing was he would just grow into it. You know, and he did literally did. Yeah. Right. So I yeah, I had vision even then where this was going. We knew what Lamar was gonna be. He came out of my wife's womb, beating on everything, like drumsticks. He was keeping time, perfect time at four years old. And we put him on the drum set at my dad's church, and he couldn't even, his feet couldn't even reach the foot pedal, but he was still keeping time. People were like, oh my God. So we knew Lamar's destiny. Uh we didn't so much know your, we we were so impressed with you because you would just had a heart for God at five years old. And you had a little tambourine, your gloves, you you came ready, you came ready to pray the Lord, everybody. Let's let's go. And folk will just be look at his daughter. So from you guys' upbringing, I'm so blessed. I'm here and I had to tell the world I'm so proud of this girl. Oh my God, I'll start crying. Oh, Lord, how I feel about this one.

SPEAKER_03 9:17

Just we just got started.

SPEAKER_04 9:22

No tears. Don't have tissues in the budget. But I want to remember like so many things and like stories and things from like a little girl that I've heard about. Um, but I just know that you were the man to so many people. And what I'm so appreciative of is that people are that have come on this platform are willingly telling me. They're not saying, oh, yeah, you're dad. You know, like they're coming out and saying, Listen, your father, and that lets me know that you have the right heart and the right posture. So I want to give you your flowers because I know that that hasn't been easy just because I know when we talk. Um, but you've always had a heart to literally look out for others, the underdogs, uh, people with a desire to learn.

SPEAKER_00 10:20

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 10:21

People that just had an entrance. You've never been one to just harbor it or be like, oh, well, figure it out. Like you've done it so much so to your own detriment several times.

SPEAKER_02 10:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:32

Um, and I think that this generation, you know, millennials, but then also Gen Z, they're everybody's more selfish.

SPEAKER_00 10:43

Self-serving.

SPEAKER_04 10:44

Self-serving. Um, and they don't understand the power in community and giving back. And so I want to ask you like, what do you feel like we need to do, or how can we do a better job of, you know, pouring into

Serving Over Self And Glory

SPEAKER_04 11:00

that generation and letting them know like self-serving can only get you so far?

SPEAKER_00 11:04

You know, that's that's a great question. Um, and I'll try to be brief in the answer, but be trying to be profound, maybe in a way that we haven't thought of Christianity. So to be a Christian, the suffix ian means like musician. It only means like uh or like unto uh but it suggests a proficiency. When you are musician, it means that you have a proficiency in music. You're not just banging or making noise, you are proficient in your craft. Christian means you are conforming to Christ. What was Christ's character? He was selfless. For God so loved the world, he gay. How can you be a Christian like Christ and you're serving your own self? It's that's an oxymoron. It's like, what? What are we doing? And that breaks my heart. It breaks my heart. Now I'm a father in the Lord's church. And it breaks my heart to see so many people glory seekers. They want the platform to showcase their talent, but they don't want the altar. They don't want to labor in prayer, they don't want the process for the anointing. They see the oil as attractive, they don't know what you paid for it. And I I must say, we that have been anointed, that paid a great price, it's the process. And we I know I did. I never sought the platform. I was just I just love God. I just love music, and I was just trying to do what I was doing. And if that brought promotion, praise the Lord. If it didn't, I was still gonna play the organ on Sunday morning. I was still gonna be loyal to my church, I was still gonna support my pastor's vision.

SPEAKER_01 12:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:50

So everybody has a different path, a different road. We should try to find out what that path is, stay in our lane so we don't cause accidents because sometimes we injure others because we envy somebody else's gift and anointing, and we're seeking the lights and the action and camera. And God didn't tell us to do that. Yeah, He told us to serve. The greatest among us is He who served.

SPEAKER_04 13:13

Yeah. Okay, so we're gonna be getting Bible class throughout this episode. I just need I forgot to give y'all the disclaimer, so I figure I just pause right there and just say, you know, just jot down your notes. Uh I mean, it's just enough. I'm sorry. No, don't apologize. I just want to give my audience, you know, I have to set up the expectation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because this is that. I I know, I know what's to come. They don't know. Okay, all right. So um, I want to talk about

Maddie Moss Clark Breakthrough Story

SPEAKER_04 13:45

Maddie Moss Clark.

SPEAKER_02 13:47

Dr.

SPEAKER_04 13:47

Maddie Moss Clark, because you, in your Clifton Edwards Jr. way, was able to literally get her attention and work with her.

SPEAKER_00 14:01

That was that whole thing, y'all gotta hear this testimony. So she put me on the national stage. Um I'm Pentecost Assembly is the world apostolic denomination, and coming up in the time we did, really didn't have no uh fellowship with other denominations.

SPEAKER_01 14:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:22

Uh, but my father wasn't that way. So he he uh I remember Shelton West, shout out to House of God. People don't know who House of God is, they were the Sabbath Pentecostal church. Then to come to find out, Jasmine, I watched a Marvin Gaye documentary on Marvin Gaye, Shelton West was his pastor.

SPEAKER_04 14:40

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 14:42

Shelton West was probably the uh what's that little documentary they got on uh BT? People that had great hits, they would call it uh unsung. Shelton West is one of the greatest preachers, singers I've ever heard in my life. Matter of fact, when we would get invited to go to the House of God on Saturdays, I didn't want to go. Because the choir was lit, they had a full band, trumpet, brass section. I would tell dad, I don't want to go. He said, What's wrong with you? I said, they kill us every time we go over there. They had a young lady, 14 years old, Joyce Martin, if she's somewhere, sounding like Aretha Franklin.

SPEAKER_01 15:24

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 15:24

And some people in the music, you know who I'm talking about. Joyce Martin was Kim Burrell before they were kids. This is what I was exposed to.

SPEAKER_01 15:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:31

But anyway, um, yeah, Matty Moss Clark put me on the map. Uh, my neighbors were Church of God and Christ, and they would hear me writing songs and playing the piano when we first got married in a duplex. And they would come and say, you know what, we want to invite you. We're having a workshop. It's a citywide workshop. And we hear you back here playing and singing. You you a songwriter? I said, yes. Well, why don't you submit your song? We got Maddie Moss Clark coming to do a workshop. I said, okay. Well, you need to submit it to Iris Stevens. I didn't know who Iris Stevenson was. Submitted it to Iris Stevenson. They accepted my little demo tape. I don't want to be lost. First solo record hit song. Uh so my brother-in-law was supposed to play this song for me at rehearsal. I don't know nobody. And the choir, the choir members would fill up this church. It was 500 voices. I've never taught an aggregation of singers that large. I'm like, how am I gonna be on the organ sitting down, giving parts, and keep the attention and get this song up? And there was a bad musician on the organ named Donald Sykes, and I could tell how he was playing he knew theory. I taught him the song in two minutes, but the but the choir was listening to me calling chords out and telling them how to move. So when he got the song, I said, okay, go to this beat. And I turned around and started giving the part. They was like, all right, all right, they didn't know who I was. But God set it up to where I was beloved by the choir. And when Maddie came from Detroit to the last rehearsals, she would stare at me and smile. She didn't know who I was. And she's like, So who was that? And then the night we performed at West Angeles, the anointing was so heavy on that song that Maddie caught. That was the only song that had a reprieve on the record. If you pull up the record, the song ends and she pulls me back. Then at the end of the thing, at the end of the concert, she she went like this and I walked for, she said, Pray for the people. We had West Angeles 2000. What me? I'm just a man. I'm just a she said, You're anointed. I began to do the altar call, pray for the people. She gets me back in the in the green room. She says, I want you to come to Detroit. I'm gonna put you up before 60,000 people. So I asked my wife, we ain't going to no snow.

SPEAKER_04 18:06

Ah, because one thing my mama don't like to be is cold. You're gonna be there by yourself.

SPEAKER_00 18:13

I I put you up as an instructor at Clark's Conservatory of Music. I'm like, this is my moment. Uh-uh, you go there if you want to. But that's how that happened. And thank shout out to Tony McGill. Thank you, Tony McGill and the Holy Gospel Music Workshop. That that choir and Tony McGill and that experience put me on the map.

SPEAKER_04 18:34

Wow.

unknown 18:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:36

I told y'all he knows everybody. Like, this is literally the legend of legends, guys. Okay, so how did we get to Pastor in the church

Calling To Pastor And Lancaster Move

SPEAKER_04 18:45

in Lancaster, California, where it is dry.

SPEAKER_02 18:47

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_04 18:48

Desert, one mall, absolutely hate it. Do not recommend, but love that all my family still lives there. But um, hello? What?

SPEAKER_00 18:58

I know. Jasmine, you didn't notice. We went to a district meeting. My father took us up there. A pastor from LA started a church up there. And we went there, and um, of course, I was over to music and I went outside. Uh you had to get to the bathroom, you had to go outside. And it was in the high desert in Lancaster. We had to go outside this little church in Atlanta. Snake, a lizard. And you know, we from LA, you ain't no lizards out here. I said, I'll never come back. I said, where are we at tumbleweeds and that I'll never come back? Watch what you say. And if the Lord didn't start uh dealing with me, I was having dreams that my father was sick, he was dying, and he was looking for me. But I was I was they were calling me, but I was somewhere singing with my group. And when I got to the hospital, he was an ICU in Texas with a weak voice saying, Son, I'm just trying to get you to understand. And I knew what that meant. I woke up from the dream saying, Yes, Lord. Yes, Lord. Woke her up, scared her half to death. She said, What is going on? I'm crying, saying, Yes, Lord. I knew I knew he was calling me pastor. Then when I went to him, I told him my dream, he started crying. Son, I knew 10 years ago. But you love that music so much. I didn't want to tell you nothing. You was gonna go the other way. So he was already in Lancaster, and I didn't understand that because he's older. So me being loving my father, I said, Well, I need to be close to my dad. So the the the male the Air Force, El Sicondo Air Force, the contractor, I was a little male uh male courier on the Air Force Base. He had the same contract at Edwards Air Force Base up there in the Antle Valley. So I got the transfer and that's how we were able to move close to dad. But then immediately after I got there, I lost a piece of mail which was confidential to the general. General, you lose a piece of mail, like that, you're fired. But it was a setup because right after I got fired, I started the church. I started the church and it was 60 people at the first service. Like they heard I was coming and you know, and we had over a hundred people in 90 days. It was it was all a plan of God, so that's how we got there. It was just moving in the it was God, it wasn't me. That's how we got there.

SPEAKER_04 21:32

What do you think is has been the big the biggest lesson? Like you've been pastoring over 35 years, which is man, you've been pastor 35 years. But what is one of the biggest lessons you think you've learned um about pastoring?

SPEAKER_00 21:50

Protect your heart. When you have when you do it right, you literally care and you it seems like the most successful pastor. Seemingly, really don't have a shepherd's heart. I hate to say that. And I'm not throwing shade on nobody else. I mean, I've been around. The guy that gets in and out, you'll have thousands throwing in it. The guy really don't take time and you know, you know, they don't have you don't see relational type of interaction. The guy that labors with the people it seemed like he gets kicked every time. You know, I don't know. I don't if I'm sure there's a psychology to it in in the African American culture, especially. Because pastoring an African American church is different than pastoring a multidiverse church.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 22:45

Because other ethnicities have different problems, you know. So the the church is a microcosm of societies being a macrocosm. Whatever's in the world is going to come in the church. When me and Tracy first started, I don't I don't remember a couple that didn't have marital problems. But we were having marital problems.

SPEAKER_01 23:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:07

So how could I minister to so one of my one of my biggest regrets, I looking back, I was too young. 29. Had the zeal, had the passion, knew enough of the word. I cared, I had the right heart. I I didn't know enough. I wish my father would have been totally transparent on what I should expect. It was like, I accepted the call, that was enough. Put oil on me, go run something. No, let me know what I'm getting in. That thing is I told him one day at the bank I had been in like four years, three or four years pastoring, and I saw him in the bank. I said, Dad, he said, How you doing, son? I said, Dad, you told me about the sharks, but you didn't say nothing about the piranha on my shirt, got host. My pants are tattered. He was almost on the floor of the bank because he knew. Yeah, but yeah, but you didn't tell me, right? So yeah, it's uh it's something, it's a real peace. And and I see young men wanting to do this. I kind of question like, you want this? And when I read the Bible, everybody that wanted it, they wasn't the ones. Talk about it. David didn't want no the people that the real ones that got the call don't want this. I didn't want it.

SPEAKER_02 24:42

Yeah. So I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 24:45

What advice would you give um pastors or people transitioning into pastoring that you wish you

Protecting Your Heart In Ministry

SPEAKER_04 24:55

would have had?

SPEAKER_00 24:57

Two things, uh man, listen, uh um I didn't have enough education when I started. And I want I want everybody to hear this. I used to gay bash bad. I thought it was despicable. I thought what? And then when I got into psychology, when I educated myself, because some children don't choose the path, it was chosen for them. They were either mishandled, molested, and then I found out that the first sexual experience trains the brain on how to get pleasure. So throughout their life, they seek that experience over and over again. So when I found that out, I felt bad and I repented. I told my church, I'm sorry, I didn't know. And and so ignorance sometimes is the culprit. Because we hurt and injure people, because we don't understand how the people see the preacher. Standing up there on a Sunday morning, it can almost be like a God complex. You don't know how people see you and view you, and so the things you say has weight, right? Especially now on social media where what you say can go viral. So I would say to young pastors, get your education, you know, for real. Go to theological seminary, get taught. Uh, the second thing, make sure you have a pastor, make sure you have a spiritual father, because you can have many teachers but not have many fathers. You need someone to be accountable, say, no, don't do that. I think you need to wait before you, you know. Now we have so many people with autonomy that feel that they can do whatever they want to do because they're not under any. They say they're under a covering. The coverings now are money-making machines. You're under this covering, okay, and those guys don't care. They have some celebrity, so they're gonna charge you. You wanna be under this covering, okay? A thousand dollars, five hundred. So, so the father, you don't pay as a son to have a father. The father's supposed to be important to the son. We got this backwards, right? I don't I don't get it. So y'all don't want me, I'm the one. Um maybe I maybe y'all should want me because I'm gonna be transparent and tell the truth.

SPEAKER_04 27:11

Why am I paying for a father? Right.

SPEAKER_00 27:15

Why the what these jokes doing? Um, this is a father's son of the world. You're gonna have to you better get out of here. I can't put, I can't pay the lease on the church. I gotta give a thousand dollars to be connected to you.

SPEAKER_04 27:28

I'm gonna have you right. I think you are absolutely right that um a lot of pastors don't want accountability, and it's so sad. Um, and I think it's just because of their own, like you said, self-serving uh desire or a fear of being hurt or being told um something that they don't want to hear. Um, which brings me to my next question. Like, what, in your opinion, is the current

Altar Life, Therapy, And Church Health

SPEAKER_04 27:55

state of the church?

SPEAKER_00 27:57

Oh, Jazz, we're in trouble. I I'm I'm I'm you know, I'm the I'm the father now. And looking back, we've lost our zest for God. I'm very appreciative of people like John Hanna, uh the prayer ministry, uh, people that's building altars. When you get away from the altar, people don't even know the ministry of the altar. Altar where stuff dies, right? When the priest would bring the beast to the altar, I've never met any part of cattle, a bullock, a heifer, a goat that wanted to get burnt up.

SPEAKER_01 28:38

Right.

SPEAKER_00 28:39

The closer you get to the fire, the animal is gonna go, wait a minute, what's going on? And that's symbolic of the flesh. The flesh don't want to die, right? So that's why they would have to tie the beast to the four horns of the altar. So he wouldn't get away. Right? And we got to have some type of cord that ties us to prayer, and it's something that happens in our individual prayer and devotion where the flesh dies. Because if the flesh don't die, then the spirit can't thrive. It's not about you, it's about him in you. Nevertheless, not I, but Christ liveth within me. But I wonder how much do how much of Christ do people see versus how much of us do. Because now, the last 20, 30 years, and some of my colleagues and and fellow comrades, and I won't call no names, but they have, and they will tell you on their own admission, they have been guilty of starting this personality, this personality-driven ministry. Well, when you have a personality-driven ministry, everything starts and dies with the person. But when we do a healthy church, the personality may pass, because we're only here for a time, but the church lives on. Because it ain't about the person, it's about Christ. Upon this rock rock, rock bed of truth, the revelation Peter got that he was the Christ, I will build my ecclesia. The church is built on revelation of who Christ is, not on how gifted we are. Because gifts come and go. Right.

SPEAKER_04 30:25

And gifts come without repentance.

SPEAKER_00 30:26

And gifts with meaning God will never change his mind about giving you the gift. But the problem is when we, this is the problem I had. Me and some musicians never vibe because I saw the arrogance. How are you arrogant when you when God gave that to you? Every good and perfect thing comes from hell. Gift comes from the Father. So you're arrogant about something that wasn't yours. He he gave it to you. That always was profound to me. I I they were not humble with that gifting. So it's almost like that's why we need psychology. And I would tell every pastor, if you don't get a psychology degree, get some therapists in your church. Because from the pulpit to from the pulpit to the wall, we need therapy. We need the folk need, and therapy, watch this, is more spiritual at times than the Bible.

SPEAKER_02 31:21

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 31:22

Because the the mind is spirit. The mind is spirit. And and watch this. You could preach all day long and and behavior never changed because people don't know why they do the some of the things they do. But psychology will explain the behavior.

SPEAKER_01 31:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:39

And so that's that's the problem I see. I also see we're doing a lot of preaching, but we don't see behavior change. People thought I was crazy when I left Lancaster, but I didn't see the developing of my job is to help you. I'm sorry, I believe the Bible. Ephesians 4, for the perfecting of the saints ought to be maturing. So after 20 years, you ain't you still doing the same thing you was doing. So they was making me crazy. I said, well, maybe it's I'm gonna leave. Everybody left the church and said, No, you don't have to leave. Y'all stay here. I'm leaving. Because if I stay, y'all making me crazy. Because my gift is supposed to be helping you mature and develop, right? But you said something earlier off camera. You said you can't make someone be something other than who they already are. They either have to have the passion to grow and evolve, or it is what it is.

SPEAKER_04 32:35

Yeah. Honestly, that is the God, honest truth. And it's sad because then on top of that, we have the social media influence that is ripping everybody to shreds. If somebody says something, or if Mark, if somebody said, close the doors during the offering, then oh, you holding them hostage to get like it's like everything is getting is under a microscope. When it's like, this isn't what?

SPEAKER_00 33:08

That's why I don't want to be famous. When you get famous, folk dig in your trash can, jump fences, look at that binoculars. I just want, I just want to live. I just want to be prosperous, you understand? Uh-uh. I don't want that fan fanatical type of thing. Um, it's funny, the scriptures talks about Paul going to Areopolis uh in Ephesians. He gets there and he's on Mars Hill. And these uh these Greeks have built different busks and statues to different philosophers and gods, and they had a busk of Paul. And uh one of the old colloquials of a prophet, when he was upset, he'll tear his garment cast out his garment. So the Bible says he rent his garment, which means he was so really upset. He said, Why do you have a statue of me?

SPEAKER_02 34:05

He said, I'm not trying to be famous. My job is to point you to the real preacher, right? Where is that kind of preacher today?

SPEAKER_00 34:17

We could just come, you don't have to have to call my name. I'm a servant. You don't have to have a certain honorarium for me. How can I charge you for a book I didn't write? That's a bar. We're probably gonna need two, two of these. Because I just got some questions. I don't, I don't, I ain't never been no, I didn't preach the breath of this country. And they would ask me, What do you try? I said, I don't, I don't have a fee. My daddy told me what the book says, Jesus told the disciples, take no money, take no script. Um of of uh a work workman is worthy of his hire. So, well, we reason why we do that, bishop is I went to this church and they only gave me $50. Okay, that happens. But God said, whatever's right, I'll pay. So when you get to the next city, they may give you $5,000. You understand what I'm saying?

unknown 35:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:18

I was at, I was at your uncle's retirement just this weekend. I sold a seed that I really didn't have. It was a sacrifice, and you know, it was on faith. I'm going out the parking lot, I didn't expect anything. Some adjutant walked up to me and put some fresh hundred dollar bills, and I said, Well, who, what they didn't want me to tell you. I I God bless you, Bishop. I'm like, what, but no, this is, huh? Somebody else gave me an envelope, but and I'm looking at, I'm all confused. But when you give, yeah, it shall be given unto you, you understand? But so there's something wrong with the preacher expecting a certain amount, and that's not to devalue your gift, but who's your paymaster? Why do we as pastors tell the people to trust God when we lift an offering, but we don't trust him? Okay, next question. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 36:15

All right, so it's tight, but it's right. Y'all already know. All right, so we have uh Bishop Clifton Network Jr. with us and that, and he's gonna know, but you have just recently launched something that I'm really proud of you about, um, because you now in your season years, uh-huh. Um, hopefully retirement is around the corner, which is we're gonna get to that in a second because sometimes the child has to chastise the parent. Um, but you have just launched uh something that I feel like a lot of pastors, if not all of them, need. Um, and I want you to tell the people about it. I don't want to butcher it. I want you to give me all the vernaculars and all the things. So tell them what it is.

SPEAKER_00 37:03

Yes. Um, the name of I found it, I'm the founder of the Episcopal Training Academy and Conference. What I'm saying is there's a lot, we're living in a title-driven culture in the Pentecostal church where everybody has a title. And some of the titles are not warranted, the people have not been vetted. Like I said, they either lack education or they're just too new. The Bible tells us, and the requirements is there, we're just not following the Bible. We just ain't doing it, right? You shouldn't be lay hands on no man suddenly. How about that one? Right? And we used to thought that meant don't be quick at the altar to cast out a demon. That ain't no. That meant you as a spiritual father don't affirm someone to ministry without them having tenure and being proven, right? And so that's what we got going on now. And so what I'm trying to do is just make the church better. That's all. I I do notice that I was one of them. I'm a part of the joint college of bishops, African-American Pentecostal

Episcopal Training Academy And PK Pod Code

SPEAKER_00 38:05

bishops, under the late Metropolitan Bishop Jesse Delano Ellis.

unknown 38:09

Woohoo!

SPEAKER_04 38:10

Shout out to Bishop Ellis and Ellis Fab.

SPEAKER_00 38:12

I love them. I love him. Um, he was beloved by so many. He's a man of order. And uh he brought, he's partly responsible for the Church of God in Christ, the way they look now. They are a the largest black Pentecostal group, but they're in order. And from the college I've been attending over the past 20 years, uh, I saw that there is a great number of pastors out west that don't attend Cleveland or St. Louis. And I asked Bishop Ellis when he was living about doing one, and he didn't want to. And so now after he's gone, I see a rising need, uh, a great need for, and our focus is not so much on the prelature, the culture of the prelature, which is the symbolisms of the vestments and the robes. My focus is on the academic. We got too many preachers that's open and open the Bible who are terrible.

SPEAKER_04 39:10

She said zero star. Don't recommend. I'll just say they need Ooh, tomato, tomato. Like, what are you talking about? Jesus wet the end. Absolutely not. I'll say it. And I don't know why y'all going. Y'all going for the music. You can listen to music at your house. Okay, continue.

SPEAKER_00 39:33

I can't breathe real quick. But it's true. I don't know if everybody knows this. If someone opens the Bible and reads a text, you, the audience, are owed an explanation. If he does not explain the text, he is a con man. Because if you take a scripture out of context, you're conning the audience. If you read a text, better you not to read a text if you don't have, if you didn't study, just get up and start talking. That's better than reading a text and not explaining it. We call that in theological terms, exegesis. And that means to give an explanation, to lead out an explanation from what you're saying. There's a word within a word if you do your work, right, as an exeges. So that's just one form, but but sermoni, I mean, it's sermon preparation, it's historical uh context, it's asking the four questions, who's talking, who is he talking to, why did he say what he said? It's a lot that goes into hermeneutics, which means this it's a science to preach. And if you haven't been educated, we can help you with a few tools. Just come to, and I'm this is not, this is not verb, I'm not being verbose or trying to say I'm the grand poop. I'm just saying it is what it is. I'm back in school at 63, and here's your word for the day. I'm a wordsmith, opsimath. That means a learner at a early, at a later age, someone that is that has continued their education late in life. So I'm an opsim. At 63, I'm going back to get my master's uh in divinity. I'm enrolled right now at Jesse University. So um Jesus said, take my yoke upon you and what? Learn of me. He didn't say learn Torah. They already knew the Torah and they couldn't keep the law. He said, Learn me, for my yoke is easy. What I'm gonna give you, you're gonna be able to carry. So just come to the every year, February, the end of February, February 24th through the 26th or 27th in Sacramento, California. Uh, you'll be soon seeing a uh Save the Date. And uh last year was a smashing success. It exceeded all expectation. We have preachers here from literally the West Coast, Pacific Northwest, back east. Oh my God, it was amazing. And the night service is not the crime, I mean, they're off the chain too, but the focus is on the day sessions where we're engaging and letting these men, these erudites, come and give us history of the church, give us what the bishopric is, give us how it evolved into the episcopacy from the apostolic, the first apostles of the New Testament. The history, I mean, of the the adjutant academy, Bishop Daryl Woodson. Oh my God. You need to be here this February. We are a resource to all denominations and reformations. I'm not starting a reformation, we just have an academy that is a resource to help us come in line in orthodoxy and orthopraxy.

SPEAKER_04 42:54

Because we don't need another denomination.

SPEAKER_00 42:56

No, we don't.

SPEAKER_04 42:59

I just need to say that. Y'all, it's phenomenal. I attended the first one, obviously. I'll be at the next one, obviously. And I just feel like we should do something for those of us watching. Let's do a promo code for them. Let's do PK Pod. Um, when you register, once everything make sure that you're following the PK Pod. I will share all the details, the website for e tech. Um, but we'll do a promo code PK Pod so that you can get a percentage off. But it ain't gonna be forever. So that quickly. Okay, don't be DMing me talking about well, where were you? Okay. Um, but no, we will we will keep y'all posted on all things. Um, eTAC, it is phenomenal. And I think if more churches will want to get back to learning the basics, that the church as a whole will get better, will get better. And so we got to do our part. And um, I'm just grateful that my dad has a heart to want to help us so that we don't just keep running around dysfunctional. Um, but yeah, y'all. Support my dad, please and thank you. Um, I have to ask you like who are your top three preachers? Obviously, y'all, as y'all have heard today, like he's been preaching the whole time, and that is why I am a tough, I'm not a tough critic, but I don't go anywhere. Like, you have to know how to preach in order for me to come to your church. Um, and that was one of the reasons why I did church reviews for a while, because I knew that there were a lot of different churches, but people go for different reasons. But if you actually want to hear a word, um, which should be part of or majority of the premise, um, that's very important. And I was obviously raised under good sound doctrine. So I'm a tough critic. Um, but I want to know who are like your top three preachers of all time.

SPEAKER_00 44:50

Very hard. It's about top three. Hard, hard, hard question. I'm gonna I'm gonna preface some of my answers by giving just a little, just a little bit. When we first got saved, we came out of the Baptist church. Um, not to say that we weren't saved in the Baptist church. Well, when we got filled with the Holy Ghost, we were my my family's from Texas, so we were we were Baptists. I was born in Los Angeles. We got saved in 68. I got the Holy Ghost in '71. And I was just a weird kid. Like, I don't remember a kid. I was a fan of the preacher. I really was. So my father bought had one preacher album. It was a C.L. Franklin, Aretha's father.

SPEAKER_02 45:34

C.

SPEAKER_00 45:34

L. Franklin's, I believe the name of that record was When the Eagle Stirs His Nest. So I was a C. L. Franklin fan. So when I started, when we got into the Pentecostal and, you know, holiness, they didn't have a cadence. I felt they preached too fast. You know, the Baptist preacher, and uh, you know, they had a you know cadence.

SPEAKER_02 46:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:01

And so I naturally as a kid developed it it called to me, right? So having said that, my top three, currently, I'll give you what's been on my playlist currently for the past 20 years, currently. I think he's a bad boy. And I'm I'm I watch, I'm giving him a shout out. I'm inviting him to next year's conference. Bertran Bailey Jr. Lord today. Lord today. That's all If y'all don't know now. You know, you need to go to YouTube. Bur Tran Bailey Jr.

SPEAKER_02 46:46

is a real problem. He's a real problem. That's number one. That's number one. He's going through it.

SPEAKER_00 46:59

I'll give you three with an honorable mention. Can I give an honorable mention? Sure. I'll give you three with an honorable honorable mention.

SPEAKER_02 47:05

Um my second one is I gotta say, um from Detroit.

SPEAKER_00 47:18

He was my first choice, and we couldn't work it out last year. Um Tolan? Tolan Morgan? Morgan. He's a problem. He is a problem. You're gonna get an exegesis, yeah. You're gonna get an explanation, he's gonna kill you in his opening argument, and he's gonna hoop you underneath the pew. He's a real problem. I I I have to put Tolemore.

Favorite Preachers And Sermon Standards

SPEAKER_02 47:45

Okay. You struggle. I am struggling. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_00 48:00

I it it's uh the great Noel Jones. It is the great Noel Jones. Wow, yeah, it's he has had a great impact on my life. He's changed my he's the one, I never told him this. He's the one that made me become an avid learner. I was already digging and studying, but his information and wow. Wow. He I mean, going back to the 80s, uh, I really appreciate his academia and his zest. He and this guy has a zest. He'll be in the lab all week. So his his study habits, and that's why kind of partly how I became who I am. He had a great impact.

SPEAKER_02 48:48

Great impact. No joke.

SPEAKER_04 48:54

Who's the honorable mention? Because you say you wanted to have honorable mention.

SPEAKER_00 48:57

Yeah. Um now listen, I love Dr. Frank Ray. I love, you know, he was at the last guy. I love, I love the Baptist ministers, are my favorite preachers, but my honorable mention would be the late great Bishop R. W. MacMurray. Some would say some would say he didn't have a lot of information, but he was anointed. I mean, when you have the oil on you, yeah, you don't need a lot of information. I mean, let it do what it do. Bishop can get up with a song and kill you. Bishop can bishop tell a joke, and you know, he just he was the only preacher that had the charisma, the swag. He was before his time. He can quote a scripture, be telling a story, tell a joke, sing a song, and go right back, never lose. He was just one of he was a homog homogeneous. He was one of a kind, and and I love, I miss him to this day.

SPEAKER_04 49:58

Okay. All right, so I pay I play a game with all my guests. I'm gonna play a game with you, but you have to answer quickly.

SPEAKER_02 50:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 50:06

If you do have stories, feel free to share, but I'm just letting you know.

unknown 50:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 50:10

Okay. So that you're prepared for this. Now, earlier you already gave us the disclaimer for the episode that you are a Thomas Whitfield, literally, like you stand.

SPEAKER_02 50:20

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 50:21

And of course, I have him on here. So, first, first question. So the game is this or that, meaning who do you have? If you have to choose between the two, who are you going with? First answer, like in a battle royale.

SPEAKER_02 50:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 50:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 50:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 50:35

All right, so Thomas Whitfield or James Cleveland?

SPEAKER_00 50:43

Thomas, of course, but James was the king of gospel. Can I say this? I did my first live album recording, Testimonial Cathedral, Church Guy in Christ, and the king of gospel walked in on my concert and had words and affirmed me. I could have gone to heaven. All the greats affirm your boy. I don't know what man out there. Maddie James, I don't know. Wow.

SPEAKER_04 51:08

Anyway, I'm learning stuff about the podcast. Look at that.

SPEAKER_00 51:14

Shout out to James Cliff.

SPEAKER_04 51:16

Did you know that about? Nice. Okay. All right. Thomas Whitfield or Donald Lawrence?

SPEAKER_00 51:23

Donald Lawrence is biting off of Thomas Whitfield. Please.

SPEAKER_04 51:27

Okay, okay. We know the answer. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 51:30

Daryl Coley or Walter Hawkins? Walter. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 51:39

That was kind of hard.

SPEAKER_04 51:40

Oh, and that was, yeah, you didn't even want to open your eyes. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 51:43

But but Walter, his voice.

SPEAKER_04 51:45

Okay. We won't. We still love the Coley family because they were at the house.

SPEAKER_00 51:52

Oh, they were close friends with us, yes.

SPEAKER_04 51:54

Um two uncles, Uncle John Piqué or Uncle Heads.

SPEAKER_02 52:00

That's tough. They're both still good friends. That's really tough. That's a tie.

SPEAKER_04 52:09

Okay, I was gonna say you can have one draw. Is that your draw? That's my draw. Hezekiah Walker or John Piquy?

SPEAKER_00 52:15

Your hair still, I'm still preaching for Hezekiah. John, why you won't have me come preach, man, at VIP? What's wrong with you? John told me he was gonna record me years ago. That ain't never happened. Anyway, I should be saying this on the podcast.

SPEAKER_04 52:31

No, you mean no let it all out.

SPEAKER_00 52:35

No, yeah. Um, no, they're both good friends. Um that's a tie.

SPEAKER_04 52:40

Okay, that could be a tie. Um, I know the answer to this now. Choir music, appraise, and worship. What are you gonna say? Choir music. Yeah. Okay. Preachers, let's go, preachers. Mr. Clean or Frank Ray?

SPEAKER_00 52:56

Back in the day, Mr. Clean was a problem. I'm still a Richard White fan, by the way. May he rest in heaven. Uh, flew me to Atlanta to preach for him, opened doors for me. When I left the PAW because of Mr. Clean and John Black and DJ Rogers, Church of God in Christ embraced me for many, many years. So thank God for Mr. Clean.

SPEAKER_02 53:22

But I'd have to say. You said Mr. Clean or who?

SPEAKER_04 53:34

Dr. Frank Ray.

SPEAKER_00 53:35

Dr. Frank Ray is my is a preacher. He's a preacher's preacher. I have to Dr. Ray.

SPEAKER_04 53:41

Okay, and then this last one is LA Rivals. Curious to see who you're gonna pick. Bishop Clarence McClendon or Bishop Noel Jones.

SPEAKER_00 53:53

I like uh Bishop Clarence McClendon's revelatory approach to scripture. He's gonna give you revelation. Uh, not to say that that Noel is not gonna do that, but Noel is more of a practitioner. He builds blocks when he's preaching to where it comes to a climactic end. Clarence goes for the illumination on the written graphic. He gets you to see it in a different light. Um you can't lose with either one. And Clarence is more prophetic in his ministry than Jones is strictly hermeneutical. The science of preaching. So if we just deal with preaching in his contact, no jones.

SPEAKER_02 54:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 54:40

We're looking for the prophetic, Clarence McClinton.

SPEAKER_02 54:44

Okay. It's two different two different styles. Yeah, they're yeah, yeah. All right, you did good.

SPEAKER_00 54:50

I tried. It's you.

SPEAKER_04 54:52

Huh?

SPEAKER_00 54:53

You the star of the show, you the hostess with the most is.

SPEAKER_04 54:55

I'm just so nobody trying to tell somebody about cheese.

SPEAKER_00 55:01

Can I say I am proud of my little, I'm proud of Warren Campbell,

Mentorship, Retirement, Regrets, Assignment

SPEAKER_00 55:06

of his growth and development. I remember literally putting Warren on the organ at the PAW conventions. And he would be so nervous. I mean, come on over. And, you know, even putting him on concerts, the Souls of Zion, him and my nephews and Joy uh was a part of Souls of Zion when they were little, and I would put them on my concerts. So to see his development and his growth, and wow. So I love you, Warren. And Nissan, oh my God, I'm so proud of him. Uh, him and Rapture, what they did, you know, with Aaliyah back in the day, Missy and Tweet. Um, their anthology is incredible as well, as music producers. Um, so and Toney, quick story before we go off there. Tony came to a PAW convention. Uh I don't know what it was, I don't even know what happened. Because I wasn't over the choir. I don't know what happened at this rehearsal. But he came to present a song, and because of how he was dressed, they were laughing at him, they were disrespectful. And I stood up and said, Hey, we're not having that. We're gonna respect, you know, the presenter, and let this young man present. And then they all listened. And he never forgot that. And matter of fact, that song went from him rehearsing in the rehearsal. That song back in the day was a got the house, but that song blessed the audience that night. So the one that they was talking about talking about. And he never forgot that. You know, there's so many other Jamie Gamble drummer and now bass player, I put him on as a teenager. There's just so many people that I've had a hand on. Bennett used to come and play for us in Lancaster when I first started, Craig Rockman. Uh so, so, so, so many other musicians were in their teenager years. Now they're doing their thing. And I'm glad to have had a part of being if I just inspired them in some kind of way. I'm glad to have had a part in their development.

SPEAKER_02 57:14

Yeah. You the man.

SPEAKER_00 57:20

I'm just I'm just a nobody trying to tell everybody about somebody who can save anybody.

SPEAKER_04 57:27

Um, thank you for stopping by the pie dad. Happy Father's Day. Um, what I would like for Daughter's Day is for you to retire.

SPEAKER_00 57:41

It's coming. I told my church, they got seven years.

SPEAKER_04 57:46

Ooh, that's a long time.

SPEAKER_00 57:48

I'm trying to make it to 70 because I have no successor in sight.

SPEAKER_04 57:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 57:52

And we're rebuilding. So I know things take time. But whether we find one or not, by 70, if if sooner, I'm out. I'm out sooner.

SPEAKER_02 58:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:01

I'm not trying to go to 70. Yeah, yeah. I'm just gathered. But if God does it in a year, I'm out. If God does it in five years, I'm out. But I don't want to. I've given my life to the church since I've been nine years old.

SPEAKER_01 58:11

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 58:13

I don't want to go to a beach. I want that for you. Yeah, and I do. I've always been that way. You know me. There's another, I have not, I have not equated preaching with my total identity or pastoring. I'm more than I'm a father, I'm a husband, I'm a musician, I'm a producer, I'm some, I'm multifaceted, and I would like to see the world. I really would.

SPEAKER_04 58:36

So is a successor required for your retirement?

SPEAKER_00 58:41

I would just like to see it's not, but I would like to see the church go on, continue. Um now, if that doesn't happen, I don't want it to be said that I wasn't looking for one. But we we got a disease going on, y'all. Y'all, y'all seen this pandemic? It's called pasteitis. Everybody wants to be a pastor. Nobody wants to be a help or a minute, you know, and so people leave too soon when they could have had the whole kipping caboodle if they would just stay. So can I say I'm proud of her? Um, listen, Jasmine Edwards is a world changer. I didn't see this coming. I knew she was loaded and had gifts and talents, but she is definitely a boss. I'm just so proud of her. You're you're beautiful, you've kept your integrity. I had one preacher say, Oh, your daughter's jasmine. Oh, she's saved. I'm like, I almost said, nigga, what did that mean? I knew what it meant. That means you tried it and it didn't work.

SPEAKER_01 59:47

Well, what?

SPEAKER_00 59:51

Yeah, she's saved. What? Some of us really living this life. No, you know, I'm so proud of you. I'm proud of Lamar. If I didn't do nothing right, like I have some regrets. We really didn't get on that, but I do have regrets. Uh and I'm very apologetic.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:10

Share one of your regrets.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:13

I I I'm most knowing my story, some that don't, I made a horrible mistake back many years ago. I hurt our family, and I want to get too close to that. I wish I could have that back. I wish I I can I wish I can have that back. Other than that, I really don't live with any regrets because God knows what was gonna happen before it happened. And he has a way of using our so-called failures to develop us. So we carry the scars. Those scars are beautiful. It lets us know what didn't kill you, it makes you stronger.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:50

So uh, but other than that, I really don't. I would never hurt anybody intentionally. That's not my in my makeup. I wish I had that back, but I wrote a song about it. You'd have to wait till it's gonna bless. It's called Make It Like It Was. I wrote a song about it, but yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:10

Can you share light on the transition from AFCO or City of Zion and passing that baton to someone who you thought was a successor? Yeah. Like what did you learn from that?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:24

Yeah. Um, it was difficult. I I I I asked the Lord to release me. I never people don't know this. I never liked Lancaster. I'm I'm I loved Los Angeles. I was just being obedient as an assignment. Uh and I knew I was supposed to be there because when I got there, great favor was on my life. So I knew I was where I was supposed to be. But my church, my my from assistant ministers leaving to starting churches to my family leaving, I didn't mind them leaving, but every time somebody left, the church was split. You know, or it wasn't like I sent folk out with them, you know, and I tried to do it right, you know. So I just got tired of starting over again in the same demographic. I thought if I was if I can start over again, why don't I go to another city? And I'm starting over in Lancaster. So uh that was part of the reasoning. But spiritually, I learned the lesson that when God gives you an assignment, you got to fulfill your assignment.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:32

You know, because if you break from that assignment, you're just gonna get it again. It's like if you don't pass the first grade, they keep you back. So I learned uh when I got to uh Northern California, the first church reminded me of Lancaster. And I said, You got jokes. I looked up, I said, Oh, you real funny. And I heard him say in the spirit, spirit, spiritually, the spirit spoke to me and say, When I give you an assignment, you don't you don't have the authority to break from the assignment. There's a reason why I place you there. So and then in that was comparing yourself to because preachers know better, but we do. You compare yourself to another, yeah. I'm like, Wait, well, how do he got three, four, five hundred? What is and I know I can preach circles, you know, you go through all of that, you know. Everybody, I know musicians do it, singers do it, comics do it. How this guy got I used to put him up to to introduce me. I was the headliner, what right? You know, but you never compare yourself to others. You have an assignment, you have a certain demographic, and you have to be okay with that. And and I've learned I had to learn that.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:40

Yeah, that's good. Okay, we're done

Closing And How To Follow

SPEAKER_04 1:03:43

for real. Um, thank y'all for tuning in to the PK Pod. Thank you, Tazzy. Be sure to like, share, and subscribe. Tell the people where to follow you on Instagram. Clifton Edwards Jr. I'm so proud that you don't have like 18925 behind. Because why do all of our parents have that handle where it's like just these random numbers? You used to be you used to be one of them ones. We got you together though. But yes, y'all follow him at Clifton Edwards Jr. And not because yeah, y'all love to put a number in a handle. But follow him. Be sure to like, share, and subscribe. And until next time, be sure to subscribe right now. Click that button, stay connected so you can be the first to know when our new episodes are dropping. I'll see you there.