These Trading Mistakes Are Costing You Value with Frank in the Chat

Many dynasty trading mistakes trace back to one lie you tell yourself: thinking you're a contender when you're not. Jeff Blaylock sits down with Frank Neill, better known as Frank in the Chat and co-host of the Trade Addicts Podcast, to break down the habits costing dynasty managers value in every trade. Knowing these patterns lets you avoid them in your own trades and spot them in your league mates before they do. From boredom trades and safe floors to over-reliance on trade calculators, they cover how to avoid making them and how to use others' mistakes to your advantage.

💡 Key Takeaways

• Misreading your own roster is the root cause behind many trading mistakes on this list.
• Know your team's honest direction — contending, rebuilding, or stuck — before you trade.
• Research what the other manager needs right now, not just their past trading habits.
• Explaining an offer usually works better than sending it "over the transom" with no context.
• Instant acceptance often means you overpaid. Getting some pushback on a big trade is a healthy sign.
• Trade calculators are sanity checks, not checkbooks to balance.
• Knowing which one your league mates trust tells you how to negotiate with them.
• Most rookie picks are worth the most when it's on the clock, because certainty has real value.
• Giving yourself permission to make bad trades is how you learn to make good ones.

⏱️ Chapters/Timestamps

00:00 – Intro and Welcome
02:22 – Building the Perfect Trade Offer: Direction, Need & Research
06:24 – Framing Offers, Wanting Pushback & Reading Rejections
13:59 – Boredom Trades & No Strategic Goal
19:33 – Misreading Your Own Roster 
22:13 – Chasing Safe Floors Over Ceiling
27:27 – Patio Furniture Trades & Misvaluing Draft Capital
36:18 – The Pick-on-the-Clock Debate & Kicking Capital Down the Road
44:46 – Over-Reliance on Trade Calculators
51:04 – Knee-Jerk Trades & Stagnation
1:00:41 – Bad Communication & Being a Jerk
1:09:43 – Exploiting Others' Mistakes

🔗 Links Mentioned

• Trade Addicts Podcast 
• Follow Frank on Twitter/X 
• Keep Trade Cut
• Footballguys 
• Jeff's Dynasty Rankings
• Follow Jeff on Twitter/X 

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Visit dynastycompass.com to learn more about the show.

Transcript

Frank: We're not killing the trade calculators. We are killing the idea that it's like a checkbook. That's the oldest thing I've ever said. I'm 32. I don't, I don't think I've ever actually balanced a checkbook in my life. But

Jeff: I have

Frank: it's like a checkbook where everything has to align. My advice for the smarter managers is to know what the trade cap or trade calculators your league mates are using. Because then if you have different values from the calculators, then you know kind of what to offer, what to highball, what to lowball, and get the exact value you need.

[theme music]

Jeff: Welcome to Dynasty Compass. I am your host, Jeff Blaylock, the other Jeff B from Footballguys. Thank you so much for joining us today, whether you are watching on YouTube or listening on Apple, Spotify, or your favorite podcast platform. We thank you so much for being here. You are the reason that we are here, is to make you a better dynasty manager and help you win your leagues year after year after year.

One of the best ways to do that is by making very good trades, and we'll talk a little bit about good trades, but we're mostly gonna talk about the mistakes that dynasty managers make, how to avoid those, and how you might be able to take advantage of your league mates that are still doing it. And I am very thrilled today to be joined by Frank Neil, all better known as Frank in the Chat.

Today he is not in the chat. He is in the guest chair. Frank, so mu- thank you so much for being here, and welcome to the show

Frank: Thank you, Jeff. I'm, I'm excited about this. We've, we've been talking about doing this for a couple months now, so I'm excited to be here and talk some trading stuff because you have to learn by making mistakes, so we're gonna talk about how to n-not make those mistakes anymore, I guess

Jeff: Yeah, I think giving, giving yourself permission to make mistakes is, is one of the, the lessons that any dynasty manager struggles to learn initially because you don't want to make one. You think to yourself, "I'll set myself back three years if I make a mistake." No, not really, 'cause if you don't make any mistakes, you're not gonna to learn and you won't make any trades and, and you will stay, uh, an eight and six team that goes out in the first round for year after year after year.

Um, so you know, let's start with what our ideal would be and then kind of work our way backward to the, the problem children. Um, Frank, when you're putting together a trade offer to send to someone, what, what goes through your mind before you click send?

Frank: So the most important thing to me is to be honest with yourself on the direction of the team. I think as you said before, anyone can be kind of eight and six and continue to be in the same place every year. I think there will be a lot of people who try to push their team when it's not necessarily ready to be pushed.

So I think the most important thing for me is just knowing the direction of the team, and then from there, when you're trying to build the perfect trade, you need to know, are you getting older or younger? Are you trying to score points? And to quote the great Russ Fisher, "Draft for value, trade for need."

If you have needs, that's when you start trading. But especially when you are in draft time, it's always one of the most important things to kind of think about the value, 'cause you can always trade things down the line. But, um, trading for need is the most important thing, and finding the value at the front end is the most important thing.

So I think when I look at an ideal trade, it's what can I get the most value for this trade and what direction am I going in the trade, I think are the two most important things.

Jeff: You said a moment ago in the, in that, those things you'd ask yourself about do you need points, are you trying to score points? Can you elaborate a little bit? 'Cause I think some folks might think, "Well, aren't I always trying to score points?"

Frank: Yeah. So I-- the important thing to think about is in contending, you have older players who score a lot of points. Davante Adams was a really good example of that last year, and Derrick Henry is another good example. You're trying to find the most points possible, though you might not always have that down the line.

It's a very short time window. So when I say trying to score points, it's about near-term points this year as opposed to always trying to score points. 'Cause sometimes if you're rebuilding, you might not wanna win every game, right? You might wanna work towards the, the bottom and get the good picks. So it's about age and points in that specific scenario

Jeff: That's an excellent distinction because, you know, you, you, you want to build towards something if you are in that rebuilding state. Uh, Davante Adams having that, that touchdown season out of his mind or Derrick Henry, uh, running another rushing record is not going to help you with anything at all. It's not gonna get any value for you.

You're gonna lose out on Jeremiah Smith next year, uh, and you will still have to replace Derrick Henry and Davante Adams. So you do need to be moving those along. Um, when you're putting together an offer, how much research are you doing on the other manager that you're trading with on their, their roster, on their trading history?

I mean, what are you... Do you, do you delve into that or not?

Frank: Uh, I will focus very much on roster. I think when you think about trading history and their proclivity to trade, I think everyone in especially more market efficient leagues like Trade Addicts adapts a lot, and you have to be able to adapt with the market. But absolutely, I will always try and target if someone thinks they need something, I think is important because you don't always need the running back to have...

You don't need the third running back on the team. Sometimes you can kind of start one or start two and you're gonna be just fine, but some people like having that depth. So it's about focusing on not necessarily like trading history and not necessarily like what they do in the past. It's about what they need now or what they think they need now, and I think that's equally as important

Jeff: Do you find yourself having to kind of explain that to them as you're making a, a, a trade that you think, "This is what I think you need and why I think you need it"? So I mean, are you framing your offer when you, when you send it to them? Or, or is it just kind of the chips that are on the table and we'll, we'll see how they respond to it?

Frank: So it depends on a few factors. It depends on the quality of the player or how often they pay attention to the league and what, and their team, but also the piece being traded. I think if you're trading backup running backs and, and something simpler like second round picks and moving up or down, I think that takes a lot less explanation.

But if you're trying to have someone separate from Justin Jefferson or CeeDee Lamb or Jahmyr Gibbs, there's a lot of discussion that has to go into it and say, "This is why now would be the time to move off or to add him if I'm trying to sell for a lot of picks and a big return." So it, I think it's, it depends on what they are looking for and what the piece being discussed is.

Jeff: Yeah. I just actually completed a trade this week, uh, with a guy in one of my dynasty leagues. I had Lamar Jackson and Tee Higgins, and he had Joe Burrow and Zay Flowers. And so we wanted to swap those two. We recognized there was benefit in that, and we did a lot of explaining our offers and asking questions to each other.

I bet we went back and forth. I think there were seven or eight counteroffers along the way, uh, until we, we settled on the, the draft capital that balanced that out for us to, to both make it. I think we both think we overpaid a little bit, so it's perfect, uh, for, for us. I think that's exactly where it needs to be.

Um, but that-- Yeah, I think that kind of maneuvering, you need to be an explanation of why, why are we doing this? What are we trying to accomplish? What's this for you? And just ask questions too about what are they looking for. 'Cause even if a trade doesn't go through, you learn something from it. You learn something about that other manager, you learn something about valuation, and you might even learn that you, uh, may be misvaluing something yourself.

Uh, and, and that, that's all really helpful. I also like that you said that, you know, if you're trading draft picks, that's pretty self-explanatory. And if you're on the clock, you're on the clock. I mean, there's no... You, you know, everyone knows what you're doing. Um, but some of these more nuanced trades, I think you do need a lot more explanation.

Frank: Yes, absolutely

Jeff: So are you looking... You know, when you make this nuanced trade and you've explained it very, very well, are you looking for them to g- to smash accept it right off the bat? Or are you actually hoping that they, they counter and, and offer other pieces or explore some of that valuation with you?

Frank: It, it's funny when you are buying anything in life, it can be something on eBay, it could be something at a store or trademark or anything like that. If you spent a certain amount and they accept it right away, you probably spent too much. And it's about testing how far things can go. So I think especially in bigger trades, you almost want the pushback, right?

You wanna be able to say, "This is my starting offer." Now let's say I-- we can add a second to that. We can add a first to that. You add this piece back. There needs to be kind of true market value on both sides. So I think if you don't ever have a counter, you probably overpaid.

Jeff: Yeah, I, I was surprised by a trade offer I made about last month that it was accepted immediately. I went, "Well, that was not what I had in mind." Glad I made the trade. I got what I wanted, but I think I probably could have paid a little bit less if I had been a little more judicious in the way that I framed it.

But on the other hand, it got done very, very fast. Um, when-- you know, sometimes of course the trades just get rejected, and sometimes they get rejected very quickly and without comment from the other manager. They just say no. Do you do any kind of follow-up if you get a trade rejected, or do you just kind of throw it on the pile of, "Nah, it didn't work"?

Frank: Yeah. It, it kind of depends on how quick the no was, essentially. Like, you, you've been through this where you'll send an offer and it's immediately, like two seconds later, it's just a no. No counter, no nothing. There, that means they probably don't wanna move off of that, so that's when I'll kind of back off.

If there has been thought and someone says... comes back to you and says like, "You know, I'm thinking about it," and then they reject it with no comment, then I'll probably follow up or push back, especially on platforms like MFL where you can kind of write the comments on why you didn't like it. I think that part's important, especially if you do think there's a deal to be done, but only if there's actual conversation.

If it's just a straight no too fast, I don't normally push back. I feel like that's kind of where the trade's over.

Jeff: Yeah, I know I certainly try to offer a reason why if I, if I'm rejecting a trade, especially if it's one that seems like a fair trade. Now, if it's a really awful trade and I reject it, uh, I can do that without comment because I'll be like, "I'm sorry. I'm not gonna send you Ja'Marr Chase for two backup running backs and a fourth-round pick in 2028, but thanks for the offer."

I, I'm sure some trade calculator somewhere said that was an even trade. It is not.

Frank: Yeah. That's, that's always hard to have someone point out these numbers, and I know we'll get to trade calculators some- at some point, but it, it-- Someone just using numbers to try and say this is what things equal is not the best way to trade, in my opinion

Jeff: I, I agree. I mean, those calculators are in a vacuum a- and whatever their valuation is, and it's one of the challenges of dynasty is that valuation depends on where you are in your competitive cycle, how many years out do you look? Are you trying to win now? Are you trying to win three years from now? Um, do you like-- Do you, do you think you have strong rookie evaluation skills?

In which case, rookie picks may be more valuable to you than if you are really terrible at that. In which case, you might just want some actual players that have a, a record behind them, an NFL record behind them, uh, rather than somebody coming out of fi- now four or five colleges that they get to play for before they come into the NFL. Um, what... You know, i- if you've got somebody who's been... who gets their trades rejected a lot, and, and I have to say a lot of-- I mean, I, I reject probably at some point 80% of the trades that I get. I probably get about 75% of mine rejected, so I-- that's just normal, at least for me it is. Uh, if that's not normal, let me know so I can, I can make

Frank: No, I think that's about right. It's volume

Jeff: to dynasty and you get a lot of these rejections, what, what would be your advice to, to that manager?

Frank: I think be patient, because I think there will be a lot of times where people will get very frustrated from, um, seeing rejections come back and they'll start to undervalue certain things just to get the trade done. Now, if you want to see the ball go through the hoop, trade a third for an old tight end just to get, you know, the skids greased a little bit, and then you can start going up from there.

But I think especially new managers are very hesitant to blow up value in any sense of the word because finishing last stinks and, and new, and new managers don't see necessarily the value of a rebuild versus they just wanna win games, and that's more fun when you win. And I think the hardest part with that is they'll reject a lot because they like their team as they drafted it.

They don't wanna change a lot of things. But as you're patient, people will start to realize that this game involves as much trading as it does actual draft picking, because you have to be able to be water in dynasty and adjust your team as results continue to come out. So if you're patient, they will on their own sometimes start to realize, "I need to start making these trades and earn value for my team."

Jeff: The main thrust of our show today is on the mistakes that traders make, and you and I came up with a list that's got quite a few on there. So there's a lot of mistakes that, that folks make. So why don't you, uh, kick us off, uh, with, uh, with, you know, I don't... These are in no particular order, I think, certainly for me.

They're the order that I thought of them, the ones I sent you. So, uh, what, what would you... Where do you wanna start on this journey of misaligned trading?

Frank: Well, the first two on the sheet I actually wanted to tie together shows trading when you're bored and trading without a strategic goal. So you can trade when you're bored, actually. It's actually something fun about it, right? If you wanna just trade for the sake of trading, that's fine, but there needs to be a direction in the back end this whole time.

Trading Justin Jefferson for something just to feel like a happiness of trading is probably not the right thing. But if you're bored on a day and your team has been kinda stagnant, then sometimes this, this is just clicking buttons and seeing what works and trying to get the most value from whoever want...

You never know who wants Justin Jefferson or who needs T.J. Hockenson 'cause their tight end went down at a certain time or is gonna go down. They need the depth. There is always a time for boredom trades, but they have to have a direction. They cannot be just for putting trades out just for the sake of it

Jeff: Yeah. I'm-- I've said many times on this show that the, the biggest mistake that dynasty managers make is they make moves, and trades being a move, but they make moves without a strategy in place. They're just making moves to make moves. And, you know, especially when we get leagues that are pretty active but go through lull periods, like typically right after the season is over, a couple of weeks after the, the NFL draft, things w- the rookie draft, things will die down for a little while.

I've seen people offer all kinds of things because they're- they just want action, and they can go to a casino if you want action. Because the endorphin rush is gonna fade real fast, but the, the hole you just created in your roster by trading away Justin Jefferson for three 2028 second-round picks is gonna last for quite, quite a long time.

So I'm with you. I also agree. I mean, I think trading when people are bored is, is mistaken, but it's s- specifically for the reason you cite. It's because there's no goal often in place. I mean, there's, there's, uh, you can always activate a, a league and, and, and engage trade partners and have that discussion year-round, but just don't be in such a hurry to do it that you, you give away a lot of value because you just simply want, you know, say, "Push those buttons and see what happens."

You want to see that little trade accepted,

Frank: Yeah

Jeff: and, and then you realize that was a mistake.

Frank: Yeah. Don't be afraid of the lull. I, I'm in leagues called Trade Addicts and we have a lull. There is-- You're, you're allowed to take a break. And I think especially after the winter or after the Super Bowl and it's that dead of winter time before the rookie drafts start, a lot of people will try and force things through because they just wanna continue the energy, like you said.

Don't be afraid of the lull. The lull is going to have a swell back where people will be excited to trade again. So enjoy the quiet while you have it. It's, it's, it's a weird thing to say because I know people are very-- Especially if you like, if you're just coming off a championship or something along those lines, people wanna continue because they were very excited about the championship.

It's actually why I started really doing more dynasty content was because I won a championship and I was bored and wanted to talk to people who weren't just my friends who were tired of hearing me talk. So it's, it's one of those things where enjoy the lull. It's okay to take a break and your championship team will still be waiting there for you or your rebuild will still be waiting there for you at the end of February

Jeff: I, I sometimes forget, I know my colleagues at Footballguys forget, I'm sure your, your Trade Addicts co-ta, uh, colleagues forget that, um, just because we're tuned into this 364 days out of the year, uh, not everybody else is. And I'm in some very competitive dynasty leagues, very active dynasty leagues that people are just now kind of tuning back into football now that training camps have started.

There was a little flurry around the NFL draft, little flurry around our rookie draft, and then everyone's been on summer vacation since then. And, you know, when I-- question I asked earlier about do you kind of look at your, your league mates' trade habits? One of those habits is who's active when? Because there are some managers who are more tuned in than others, and if you really wanna work a deal, you can work a deal with them when things are quieter and the overall market is much tighter.

And so you're really, if you're the only game in town and they're looking to move something too, that's an opportunity, I think, to, to move even in this lull period. But you can also send great offers, beautiful, wonderful offers to people who are in, uh, you know, Cancun for the summer or, or in the Alps for the summer, or just simply not...

They don't have their a- their notifications on Sleeper turned on, and your offer sits there for three weeks because they didn't even know it was there. And so that's understanding kind of what the rhythm of not just the league, but the people in it, uh, I think can be helpful, and that just takes some time.

And obviously, if you were entering a league this year, you don't have any idea. Um, but kind of keep an eye on that during the off-season. Who's, who's tuning in and who's not? And deal with those who are tuning in.

Frank: Absolutely

Jeff: Uh, for me, you know, uh, I think one of the mistakes, a- and, uh, I had Alfredo Brown on here, uh, a couple months ago.

He had this little great story where he was, uh, he had somebody reaching out to him and said, uh, "Hey, should I make this trade?"

Alfredo Brown: I think that's some of, like, the things that we struggle with in both our rookie drafts and just as dynasty managers is understanding if you're actually competing. The amount of times I get a question where someone's like, "Hey, should I make this trade?" And I go, "Well, are you competing?" And they go, "Yeah, here's my roster."

And I'll go, "Brother, you're not competing. I'm sorry." Like, that's not a, that's not a top three team in your league. Like, there's no shot you're competing. And I think that's the biggest thing that happens to us is we lie to ourselves and we say, "I don't need any of these rookie picks. I'm gonna compete for stuff this year."

Um, you know, it- I think that ends up being some of the biggest mistakes we make.

Jeff: If you are not a contender, and you go out and you get Davante Adams, and you get Derrick Henry, and you get Saquon Barkley, and you, you know, you get Matthew Stafford, and you're still eight and six, uh, you've really done yourself a huge disfavor.

To me, uh, and I think you also mentioned the same thing a few minutes ago. I mean, just misreading that roster, not understanding where you are before you start making moves. You can have a great plan, but if you're starting from the wrong place, then it, it, the plan doesn't matter

Frank: Absolutely. And I, and I wrote in my notes, this is the biggest reason for wrong trades. This is when people make mistakes, this is usually the reason why. You can say it's boredom or rearranging furniture, misvaluing draft capital. We can do a lot of those, but this is usually the reason why, 'cause you're right, it is the first step of any trade is evaluating your own roster before you look anywhere else or try and change it.

You have to know your roster and where your roster is going versus the rest of your league. So I absolutely agree. I think if this foundation is wrong, you can make a million mistakes afterwards and they'll get even worse

Jeff: When I said earlier you should allow yourself to make mistakes, you should, but don't make dumb mistakes. Just make mistakes of slight valuation. Maybe the negotiation could have gone differently. Those kinds of mistakes, I think, is what you give yourself permission to make. Don't give yourself permission to think you're a contender when you really are a six and eight team, and these assets you're bringing in and trading trade capital for mean you're still a six and eight team

Frank: Mm-hmm. No, I, I agree, and I think it's like you said, that's always the starting point. And if you have this right, there are other mistakes you can make, but they're far more minor

Jeff: What's, uh, what's next? What's our next one?

Frank: So safe floors is the next one, and I, and I think I love the use of the word safe here because a lot of people think that in order to win titles, you have to just be very skilled and know the right players and just continue to score hundreds of points every week. You can't do that necessarily with safe floor players.

And I-- you hear analysts all the time say, "You can be as skilled as you want, but there is always luck to this game." And if you don't take the high ceiling shots and try and move your team to that next step, then you're gonna continue to be in that middling spot where you can make the semifinals even.

And, but there are going to be teams who took the risk and are shooting higher than you, and those are the teams that are gonna beat you

Jeff: This is one that I fell into a lot when I was first getting into Dynasty that, that I, I was kind of in that mode of let's make the tournament and see what happens, uh, a- as I was starting to learn. Those were huge mistakes that I made. I c- I probably would've won a number of more championships if I had gotten on the ceiling bus a lot sooner than I did.

But I was with, uh, on Jeff Bell's podcast. I don't remember if it's, uh, mine or his. We did both episodes back to back, so I'm not sure which episode we-- which-- whose podcast we were talking on. Uh, but whichever it was, he asked me who the most consistent player was from a fantasy standpoint last year, and I, I said the guy who scored nothing, which probably is true, but we, we...

The answer he was looking for... Yeah, the answer he was looking for... Yeah, zero is a pretty consistent, uh, pretty consistent score. Um, i- it was-- I think he said it was Jakobi Meyers, and it's because Jakobi Meyers never, never gave you zeros or twos or threes. He always gave you something steady, but he also never gave you 20.

I mean, he was a solid, you know, 10 to 14-point guy week after week after week. If you have a whole lineup of those, you will get to the playoffs and you will be shown the door very quickly. You might, as you say, you might get lucky enough to get past round one, uh, because everybody else is hard on your opponent's roster, but you're going to hit somebody who's got some heavy-hitting guys who could give them zeros, but they might give them 25 points

Frank: Yes. And the funny thing is, is I think as you said, everyone wants to make the playoffs and then luck will take it from there. You don't earn anything for winning fifth. Like, you have to take the chance to try and go for it all. And you know what? Sometimes you string a few games together and you're lucky and you win the title.

And by the way, those are the most like anxiety-inducing weeks ever, 'cause you, you know you have no reason being there, but you keep winning. So that's the, A, the most fun way of going because you know there's a chance every week that your team could hit these ceilings and continue to win. But the safe floors is just, it's 100 points, 100 points, 100 points over week, over week, over week.

And that wins you games in the regular season. It does not win you playoffs when you actually come up against real teams.

Jeff: Yeah. When I was talking with, with Jeff Bell, y- we were kind of looking at it through the lens of, you know, it, I don't wanna lose by... Whether I lose by one point or by 31 points does not matter. I, there's no style points in this. I'm not trying, particularly when I get to the playoffs, I'm not, I don't care how many I win or lose by, I just wanna win.

So I, I'm, I've gotten now finally after years of, of struggling with safe floor concepts, the idea of I don't mind if my top guys give me three points because they'll also give me 28,

Frank: Yes

Jeff: I'll win by 20 points instead of losing by one. Uh, and, and that to me is, is the difference. And there's of course volatility.

You say it's a lot. I mean, there's luck. I mean, sometimes Ja'Marr Chase just gets wiped off the board by the defensive scheme against him, and that's, that's that. But I'd rather go down with someone like that or, or with a, you know, a highly volatile but high ceiling, you know, wide receiver three, uh, than just to have a guy that consistently puts seven or eight points in that slot. Yeah. Right

Frank: Yeah. And I think Jamo is like the epitome of this, right? And sometimes you're gonna have two points because he played the Vikings and Goff for some reason can't beat them. And, or sometimes he plays the Cowboys on Thursday night and scores a million points. So it-- those are more fun. And like, like you said, sometimes Chase has bad games.

He dropped 50 in 2021 in the semifinals. Like, I'll never forget that

Jeff: I got hammered by him, absolutely hammered. I lost four or five semifinals that day

Frank: Yes. How many people lost to Pitts and Bijan last year? And, and Pitts is one of those guys who we keep putting in the trash pile, and then every one it becomes April and he's back up again, and everyone's so excited about him.

But those are the games that are fun. Those are the games you remember.

Jeff: Next one for me, and you actually mentioned the words earlier, it's what I call rearranging the patio furniture. A- and it is making some moves that don't really do anything for you. You're swapping handcuffs, you're trading your wide receiver threes and fours and fives around, you're moving your depth pieces around.

You're, you're trading third and fourth round picks, and there's no real movement there. I, I do like you said, sometimes you just need the, the layup to get the, get the grease moving, and so a third round pick for someone's tight end two, uh, sure, I mean, 'cause that'll get it moving. But making a, a habit of that being your trades is also going to get you absolutely nowhere.

You spend lots and lots of energy.

Frank: I, I like that. It, it's work without results, right? Like, and, and you really like that patio furniture on this side versus the other side for like a day and then you're like, "Eh, it's still the same furniture." And it's the same thing as like moving apartments or something like that, right? You're really excited about your new place that first day or two and then it's just like, I'm still in the same place.

Like I'm sleeping here and working here, stuff like that. And it's so much work for no return at all. And like, especially if you get counters for something so simple like this, like, "Oh, I don't want to trade Pacheco because Gibbs could do this." Or it's just, it's just infuriating and it's not worth it.

Like seconds, thirds, stuff like that I, I always say should kind of be attached to something else. And you know, draft aside, right? Rookie drafts people move up and down all the time, but they should always be attached to something. Like tr- having real negotiations over second round picks and this, that, and the other thing is just boring and it's not what this is for.

We're trying to change our teams, not add one more bench player that will probably drop in three weeks anyway.

Jeff: Yeah. Or if he does end up starting for us, we're gonna regret it because he's going to give us five points, which we knew that going in. That's what he'd been giving the former manager before we sent our fourth round pick over for him after nine back and forths that involved seven players that also would've made no difference no matter how we put them together.

Frank: Troy Franklin feels like the picture of this, doesn't he? Like, he was a guy who had a couple really good weeks and people started negotiating over him, and then he had like seven points a game for like the rest of the year. So I, I don't know. Troy Franklin feels like the picture for this for me

Jeff: See, Troy Franklin, Marvin Mims, Jonathan Mingo,

Frank: the Broncos, all of them.

Jeff: Jahan Dotson. I don't know how many freaking trades I have made over the years that have involved them in some form. None of them have ever been the key piece. They are literally the either I'm trying to get or give extra value to make something happen.

And I'm sure, uh, when I end up with them, I end up trying to move them again. I'm sure that happens to wherever they come from. It, it's just, it's, it's like, you know, bartering and you want that really ugly painting over there so that you can walk out of there saying, "I got a balanced deal." You're like, "What am I gonna do with this painting? Man, this

Frank: Can I have your kid's watercolor off the wall over there? Like that, that'll do it for me. I always laugh on the show is like you see these trades that are like player for player and a 2028 fourth. It's like that had to be there to get the deal done. And so I swear people just do it for the joke at this point, but it-- you don't need to add the 20.

That's not the difference of a deal, guys. Like just trade the players you need, move along. You'll save yourself headache

Jeff: But, but the trade calculator said that

Frank: I know. That's usually what it is. It says I'm five points down, so I had to throw something else in there

Jeff: Yeah, the 2028 fourth. And, and I'm laughing 'cause I just did a deal that had a 2028 fourth in it as part of what was going on. Uh, but there, there were, there were more pieces than that. It just was a... We were swa- swapping draft capital in two different drafts, one going up, one going down, and so that was how that worked out.

But it was not like, uh, "Well, I'm not gonna do this deal unless you throw in a 2028 fourth." Like, "Yeah, well, I really want the 47th pick of a rookie draft to, uh, make this trade over here."

Frank: I have to get Justin Joly. That's, that's my difference.

Jeff: It, it... I will say it is aggravating when, you know, someone is insisting on that. I'll give it to them, you know, like, I'm not gonna use it. I, if I have a good roster, I'm gonna drop that player as soon as I draft him anyway, so why not? But it, it's just funny when, when you're haggling at that point. Uh, that to me feels very, very panach- patio furniture-y, even if you were talking about moving Ja'Marr Chase and Jahmyr Gibbs in a trade.

Frank: Yeah. Yes, absolutely. That's moving like a blanket on the patio furniture somewhere.

Jeff: All right.

Frank: It's crazy.

Jeff: This pillow actually looks better on this side of the,

Frank: On

Jeff: chaise lounge.

Frank: Oh,

Jeff: Oh, God. Let's, let's go on to the next one. Where, where are we going from

Frank: You said it just now actually, misvaluing draft capital, and this happens a lot with new players because understanding draft capital is like it's air to them.

They don't understand necessarily the value that picks can provide down the line. And this is one of those ones where you kind of have to be patient and, and I'm gonna say this a little meanly, like let them suffer a little bit and like let them get really old and then realize they need picks to refill.

That's maybe like the number two biggest one is not understanding draft capital and how to use it. And some people will trade a first for a running back they need that week because I need this running back or else I'm gonna miss the playoffs, and that's it. And they lose out on these picks that they realize down the line it's like, "Why did I do that? Why did I trade for this backup running back for two weeks and trade this draft capital?" So misvaluing draft capital for new players i- might be the biggest thing actually for new players more than not understanding the direction of their team 'cause it kinda goes hand in hand. And using draft capital to grow a team that's middling is where a lot of people start to pull their hair out and say, "Why isn't my team getting better?"

It's because you traded the thing that helps you refill your roster every year, and it's so you don't have to pick up some fourth string tight end off the waiver wire 'cause there's usually not a lot of players to pick up.

Jeff: It's... Yes. I, and, you know, especially if you're new to dynasty, you've just come over from the redraft world, you've never had these c- these playing cards in your hands before, um, because you never traded draft picks before. I mean, you never... Especially if we get to a startup draft, you've definitely never traded those before.

And so, you know, it's these monopoly cards and you're like, "Well, here's, here's Boardwalk. Let me have, uh, let me have the little dog,

Frank: Yeah,

Jeff: or the thimble or whatever it is." Uh, but I think too with that is, is mistiming it because you, your draft capital doesn't have a constant value at, at all. I mean, it fluctuates from year to year, but not even that, just week to week and month to month sometimes.

And I've seen people trade their, you know, their firsts and their seconds at a point, it's like, man, you could've gotten a lot more for that if you had just done it at a different time

Frank: I, yeah, and I think timing is important, right? And draft picks are one of those things that normally don't lose value as time goes along. They almost always go up. And especially if someone needs like Josh Jacobs or someone older to get that, that piece, that pick you get back is going to continue to get better because, or your, the return will be better because they need that player to complete their team and they, they understand what they're doing, they're contending, all that stuff.

And I think that waiting is the hardest thing because having the player now and scoring more points for a couple more weeks feels a lot better. But waiting and understanding that the value of these picks can go higher and higher as you wait is the hardest part because everyone wants to immediate satisfaction for these trades.

Jeff: Yeah. To me, the, the pick's, the pick's value is never higher than when it's on the clock. Because at that precise moment, whoever wants that pick knows exactly which player they're going to get. And the certainty of that, that being able to pick that selection drives the value up even more. You should be able to extract some more value, especially if you are not enamored with anyone who is available right there.

Uh, you know, Heath, Heath Cummings is on, uh, in the spring, he's like, "If, if I have the number three pick in this year's draft in Superflex, the first thing I'm doing is picking up the phone and asking number five, uh, if he ha- if he's in love with one of these receivers, 'cause I'll take any of them. Uh, and if he wants Carnell Tate, then let's, let's work it out.

And I'm even-- I don't even need a lot to move off of three, 'cause I'll take any of these three receivers. I'll just let the universe choose for me. Uh, and, and I'll pick up, you know, 2027 third or second in the process and, and call it a day."

Frank: It, it stinks actually because this draft specifically blew up a lot of the progress that we've been making in terms of draft picks are at their highest when they're on the clock. They went down when you're staring at Denzel Boston or something like that at 1.08 and you're like, "I don't want this," and no one else does.

And that's the problem with this draft this year. This was an outlier, people. Like, 2027's going to be an outlier

Jeff: IR the other

Frank: and then we'll probably recenter back where we were. But it, it was tough this year specifically because, and, and I have a couple of rookie drafts still left 'cause a lot of my friends just draft later.

And there are people like my picks on the clock, my-- Or my picks on the block, my picks on the ball. Like, no one wants the back end of the first in this draft. So it, it ruins a lot of the progress that we're trying to instill in terms of draft pick value going up. But 2027 is, is worth their weight in gold at this point.

I mean, not since probably 2023 when everyone wanted a 2023 first have we seen something like this and this is probably even bigger

Jeff: Yeah, I made a number of trades back in 2025, uh, to accumulate 2027 draft capital. And so I was watching the Devy guys, and they were talking about '27, '27, '27. Uh, and, and so I've, I've got a stockpile. One of the, one of the leagues I'm rebuilding in, our draft starts this weekend or next weekend, or, uh, by, by the time this sh- air- this show airs, it may already be over.

I'm not sure exactly where we are in the calendar. Uh, but, you know, I have three s- three firsts this year. They're all in a row, 1.04, 1.05, 1.06, and then I have four 2027 firsts. And so it's a great opportunity to rebuild, but that sixth pick is kinda

Frank: I was, so I was actually gonna ask you is, are you gonna keep all three of those first? Because a lot of people try and say break up these big chunks like this is, are you gonna keep it

Jeff: I would prefer not to take them all.

Frank: Yeah

Jeff: It, it's like that old game of, uh, Press Your Luck, you know, when you get handed three spins. You're like, "I don't really wanna take these spins, but okay."

Frank: exactly

Jeff: Um, and so, you know, we'll see if there's any offers. But it is sort of an interesting counterpoint to what we were just saying, which is you were saying draft capital never really depreciates, and I was saying pick's never worth more than it's on the clock.

Actually, there are moments, and it's when you have a big tier break in talent in a, in a rookie class, and understanding where you are on that, on, on that, that tier. Are you at the, on the happy side of that cliff or the unhappy side? If you're on the happy side, it will keep appreciating. The first couple of picks on the unhappy side, on the other hand, you're gonna have a hard time getting anybody to want those.

Uh, and we were talking, uh, I guess again with Jeff Bell, on whichever show we were, his or mine, talking about that there's this sort of this need when you have, like, 1.06, for example, which I have. Your thought is this is a first-round pick. I need first-round equivalent value to give up this pick, but the market is all running the other direction because nobody particularly wants this pick.

But there is a price that someone will pay to move into 1.06. It's just not going to be a 2027 first

Frank: Yes. And that's another hard part is 'cause normally in drafts, if you would like to push first round picks, if you have multiple in one year and you wanna push them to next year because you don't, either don't have one in 27 or you just want more in a certain draft, that's a good strategy to try and get out of a certain spot because people won't value next year like they will when they're on the clock, like you're saying.

This draft aside, unfortunately.

Jeff: Well, I love that you did mention talking about kicking it down the road because I think that actually can become a mistake, uh, that there are managers who either because, uh, they, they like the trading, they can't get their roster oriented the way they need it to, they can't align it to their strategy, uh, or they are secretly, uh, terrified of making mistakes in drafting or, or not trusting their draft evals and they keep kicking that draft capital farther and farther into the future.

And so these rebuilds never go anywhere because they're holding a bunch of 2028 firsts that in 2028 will turn into a bunch of 2030 firsts because they're not going to actually draft with them

Frank: Yes. And you left out one reason for that is some people like to perpetually rebuild, and I never quite understood that. But they like to turn the three first into five first into, like, the entire first round and then maybe start going for it. But, like, that takes a really long time, guys. Like, this game is about winning at some point, and there are people who like to rebuild for really long periods of time because it's like watching your children grow up.

And I don't have kids yet, but it, it's like watching your children grow up and you're watching this team grow and grow, and I'm gonna keep getting younger and younger because the-- when at the end of that rebuild, I'm gonna have some undefeated team and I'm gonna win for five years. That's not how this game normally works, unfortunately.

And sometimes you fall into something, something like that, but to chase something where you're rebuilding until you're, like, the greatest team in the history of football is, is a really hard thing to do

Jeff: I love that you said getting younger because I think th- we've got draft capital here as kind of our impetus for kicking the can down the road. But also there's what I call the, the Florida, or I guess they're now the Miami Marlins approach, which is you bring your rookies in, you get them to where they're producing, and then you trade them away to get another set of rookies and repeat, and you win the World Series once every 20 years, and you otherwise do not make the playoffs.

A- and that is a similar form of kicking it down the road, where you have a-- You o- It's almost like taking a running back and before they get to their second contract, you just trade them away and start over rather than try to pay them their, their money or, or risk them losing value now that they're a year older, and that, that once someone hits 26 or 27, you're already trying to move on to the next, uh, the next class of people.

And that I think is also a huge mistake. I think you can do it here and there, but if that's the strategy is to not have anybody on your team who's, who's y- older than 26, prepare for a perpetual rebuild

Frank: Yeah. And prepare for losing a lot because, you know, I, I like Denzel Boston and M- Makai Lemon and all those guys as much as the next guy, but they're not winning you titles this year. They're just not. I don't care how good everyone thinks they are coming out of college

Jeff: It may not next year either. Uh, it may take a little time with these guys. Uh, with Boston it may take a change of scenery. We'll see.

Frank: Mm-hmm. Yeah. No, and, and it's funny, right? You, you put all these bets on what the draft classes are gonna look like. 2026 was supposed to look different, right? Because Arch was gonna come out and LaNorris Sellers was gonna be Cam Newton 2.0. I don't like Sellers, but I understand people are saying that. And, and Dante Moore was gonna come out, and this class was gonna look a whole lot different.

Sometimes things don't go according to plan and you have to adapt. And so trying to make these bets on drafts two, three years from now when you have no clue. I know Devy guys are smart and I know they play a lot of, uh, football and watch a lot of it, and I get it. You have no clue what's gonna happen three years from now.

So you have to find that line between value now but also value later. And there is a middle. You don't have to be, like, winning the title or have seven 2028 firsts, like you said.

Jeff: Seven. I, that, yeah, you know, I can do something with seven. Let's, let's move on. Uh, what's your next one?

Frank: All right. The next one is Over-reliance on trade calculators. And we know a lot of people who have trade calculators and a lot of good companies, and we're not killing the trade calculators. We are killing the idea that it's like a checkbook. That's the oldest thing I've ever said. I'm 32. I don't, I don't think I've ever actually balanced a checkbook in my life. But

Jeff: I have

Frank: it's like a checkbook where everything has to align. And like you said before, we need the 2028 fourth to get those extra five points to even it out. And my advice for the smarter managers is to know what the trade cap or trade calculators your league mates are using. Because then if you have different values from the calculators, then you know kind of what to offer, what to highball, what to lowball, and get the exact value you need.

So over-reliance on trade calculators

Jeff: You know, the, the trade calculators to me, I, I will use a, a handful, uh, just as a check to myself to make sure that I am not wildly off in what I think something is worth or what I think a trade looks like. But earlier in the episode we were talking about, you know, doing a little intel on the other managers in your league.

And the... if any of them ever say, "Well, I saw on Keep Trade Cut that blah, blah, blah," I immediately write that down next to my note on that manager. He uses or at least looks at Keep Trade Cut. Uh, and I can exploit that i- if, if I, if I want to, and that is not, that is not being evil. That is I now know where your, where your price book is.

And so even if you don't adhere to it, at least I have now some idea of what you think this trade's going to be worth.

Frank: I, I like what you said on the using it to check your work. But here's a, here's a dirty little secret, uh, new listeners and new players. Those trade calculators are not updated like every day. They're based on rankings that people do probably once a week or once a month, once every couple weeks, and there's a value placed next to it based on a certain algorithm.

So someone, let's just say someone gets hurt, that is not going to be updated in the trade calculator right away. So people could see a number that doesn't actually represent what the value of the player is. So that's one thing to be super cautious about.

Jeff: And then the second is that those-- even when those numbers are, if it's an analyst who's actually assigning the values themselves, they're still being assigned in a vacuum. There's no understanding because it's impossible in dynasty. There's no way of knowing how many teams are in your league, whether you're strong on wide receiver, what your opponent needs or your trade partner rather, what they need, uh, who's contending, who's not.

There's one number that has to represent kind of the median of all of that. Uh, and all trades could happen anywhere in this continuum, but this number's still right in the middle. Uh, unless you've got a sophisticated algorithm that can make it move, but even then, you've, you've added some precision that isn't really there because it's still just, as you say, it was probably a number that was assigned sometime in the last 30 days, but sometime in the last 30 days.

It, to me, it's kind of like ADP in the sense that it's an, it's a, it's a lagging indicator, that things have happened to cause the value to move, just as things happened to cause ADP to move. But the thing's already happened and it's already moved, but we're still, we're still looking at the value of what it was before all that kind of happened.

And so, yeah, I, I know a lot of people who are, who are very good with trade calculators and, and use them almost religiously, and I, I, I actually have kind of gotten to where I just don't want to trade with them because I, I'm sorry, I'm not... You want this fourth? Fine. But, but, you know, this, this sort of, uh, inability, and I say this because I've had managers tell me this.

The trade calculators, because of the way their valuations are set up, you can look at your team and you have guys up here and you have guys down here, and there's not really anybody in this middle part, so you can't make that trade balance because there's nothing here. There's not a 9.8-point player in there.

There's not a 10-point player. There's not a 7-point player. Everybody's either a 12 or a three, and you're not gonna-- no one wants four of your three-point guys. So, so it actually kind of saps creativity to me as well because you, you're stuck on trying to make the numbers line up and it has nothing to do with that.

It's, it's who are these players? What's their value? What, what do they do for you and what do they do for your trade partner? And that cannot possibly be captured in any trade calculator, no matter how good it is, no matter whether it's ours, whether, uh... I don't know if you guys have one, if it's yours, if it's any of the other guys out there.

We, we don't have any context at all when we do these things. I don't have any context when I do rankings. My dynasty rankings are based on if I were doing a startup draft today, what would my board look like? That's exactly how my rankings are done.

Frank: Yes

Jeff: that doesn't necessarily help you in trades because I don't know where you are.

Uh, I just know that would be if I were starting from a clean slate, this is how I would operate.

Frank: Yes.

Jeff: So rankings too, another thing to, to not over-rely on.

Frank: Yes. And that's the other thing we try and distinguish on our show is ADP does not always imply trade value. It's a very important thing to distinguish because if someone needs that wide receiver, that trade value is going to be higher than what the receiver's normal ADP is going to be. And to your point on the 9.8 and there's no 9.8 player, that's how you get like the nine-player trades because someone puts a 12 on this side and a three on that side to get to the nine, and now it's even.

Jeff: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and I'm like, "Why are we trading? Why are we rearranging the patio furniture here to make this work? I, I really don't want your fifth wide receiver and your ninth wide receiver, but if that's what it takes to get this guy I do want from you, fine, I'll take him and I'll, I'll put him on waivers and you can pick him right back up in three

Frank: There you go. Yep.

Jeff: Well, for me, uh, one, the next one that I wanna go into is what I would call knee-jerk trades. These are trades that are made, uh, very quickly after something happens, and that something can be a lot of different things. Uh, generally the, the biggest vi- the biggest mistakes of these I see are in about week two, week three of a season when some hotshot rookie is off to a slow start, or they didn't get their playing time the way they thought, or something else.

And on this very little short sample size, people make the, the knee-jerk decision that, "This player is not gonna do what I think they're gonna do. I'm gonna move on from them." Uh, and you can lose a lot of value because you don't know what the next 15 games might look like for this player, uh, in both directions.

They might get a lot better, they might get a lot worse. Uh, and so, you know, I, I try to caution people. I do caution people, don't trade just because you heard a news flash at 10 o'clock and now at 10:05 you're trying to unload the player for whatever anybody will give you

Frank: Yes. I, I think that's great, especially with the opening two weeks of a season or something along those lines, because there are hard schedules in the NFL. And I, I wrote down a couple in my notes. The Broncos have six crazy games to start. The Colts have four. There are going to be values to be had, especially with people that players are very volatile on right now.

Like Waddle is a very love or hate player right now, and the people who hate him are going to watch him have a game against Kansas City, Jacksonville, the Rams, and San Francisco in his first four games and say, "I knew it. Waddle was

Jeff: Told ya. Uh

Frank: And that's when you as a new manager are going to go and look at, um, what that person needs or why they're frustrated, and that's how you can get w- someone like Waddle at a lower value.

It's the same concept as redraft, right? When you draft a rookie in redraft, you have to be patient with it, right?

You just have to let them acclimate, and especially players in new offenses. Waddle is not gonna be good week one unless just something crazy happens. He's playing Kansas City at Kansas City in a new offense. It's gonna be a tough game. Yeah, 16-13 exactly, and people are going to say, "Ah, same old Waddle. I don't care."

And that's when the value is happening. You have to trust in the idea that teams and you invested in these players in your mind at least. You may not have them on your team yet, but you liked this player. Stick with it. Don't break off your initial opinion after one week

Jeff: In along these same lines, and we were talking about kind of the initial part of the season, but at any point in the season, a player may have, like Rico Dowdle had those two comically ridiculous games last year. And I, uh, I had got people who, uh, who offered things for Rico Dowdle that I had that were crazy, including a 2027 first.

I gladly gave him away for that.

Frank: Yes, absolutely

Jeff: one of those trades I said-- I made sure I read it five times to make sure that it isn't said... It says 2027, and it says first, uh, a- and, uh, then before I hit, I hit accept on that. But that to me is the same kind of mistake. It's like Rico Dowdle's not gonna set historical records weekly.

This was, this was against the Cowboys and some other defense that wasn't very good, uh, in a game s- a situation where they were ahead and the other guy was hurt. Um, yeah, he balled out. Great. That was what? 45% of his PPR total were those two games or something like that. So, uh, you know, that was the mistake that the other guy made was, was thinking that, that this is now the guy, he's the one who's gonna win for me a- and I'm gonna, I'm gonna trade for him right now.

And so I, yeah, have him.

Frank: Yeah

Jeff: gonna come back to earth really fast

Frank: Absolutely. And, and, and we are in the time of year for knee-jerk trades, right? Th- there's stories coming out saying Jonah Coleman is like the greatest running back in the history of the Broncos and all these other things now.

Jeff: I did not say that in my article

Frank: no, I know. His best shape of his life season,

Jeff: Oh, yeah.

Frank: depth charts and all these other things that people are going to make knee-jerk reactions on.

Seeing Dowdle is behind Warren in Pittsburgh this week, and they'll get rid of Dowdle because he's the backup. He's not anything important now. We are in that time of year. Just breathe. Nothing

Jeff: remember, do you remember last year when everyone lost their minds when RJ Harvey was at the very back end of the r- of the running back chart? He was like RB5. And everyone is going nuts. I'm like, "Guys, Sean Payton always puts the rookies at the end. He makes them earn their spot.

Frank: Yes.

Jeff: Harvey's gonna earn it.

Frank: Yeah

Jeff: you wanna get rid of him over that, uh, that's the knee-jerk, I'll take him. Uh, you know, I'll park him, 'cause it's gonna be a while before he pays off, but I'm not worried about that at all."

Frank: Yes. Yeah, the funniest camp story to me was last year when like KeAndre Lambert-Smith or whatever his name was, was gonna be the wide receiver two for the Chargers,

and Quentin Johnston was dead and we don't need him anymore, and KLS is gonna carry us to a title and I drafted him in the fourth and I'm gonna trade him for a second and all these other things.

Camp is, camp is nothing, guys. Like if, if something important happens in camp, you'll know it or Jeff will tell you it happened.

Jeff: Yeah, I'm, I, I'm doing, uh, a couple of teams on our camp reports this year at Footballguys. One of them is the Saints. The stud of the Saints' first week of practice has been Barion Brown. He has been electric. He is a sixth-round pick. It's the first week of camp. They're barely in pads. They're only lining up against themselves.

They're running specific kinds of plays and formations. You know, I hope the kid makes it. He's g- he's got return potential, so I think he actually will make the roster, but I... Not gonna, like, just become a PPR monster, uh, because he had a 65-yard touchdown catch today at the end of their two-minute drill. I

Frank: In seven on seven.

Jeff: play, don't get me wrong. It was beautiful. Um, but, y- you know, it's one play and it's, it's the week... first week of practice. Uh, hang on, guys. Hang

Frank: Yes, I agree

Jeff: What's next?

Frank: Uh, the next one is what I'll call stagnation, and that is not trading at all and just hoping things are gonna happen or s- people are going to offer trades to you. You have to make the first move if you want to make a change in your roster. It's like anything in life. If you wanna change something, you have to be the one who does it.

People aren't going to bring something to you and help you change. So especially if you're rebuilding or you're trying to cont- like, if you're trying to make one of those big moves up or down, you almost have to be the first person 'cause people aren't just gonna, like, assume you're ready to trade Brock Bowers away or something along those lines, right?

It's like, "Ah, he's f- he's four and five. He probably wants to trade Bowers now." People aren't that smart, and if they are, then you play in a really efficient league and I'm happy for you and you should stay in that league. But normal dynasty managers are not going to stare at the roster page every week and say, "You know, he's four and five, so I'm gonna trade this guy now."

You have to understand, at the very least, you have to make it clear to other people that you're ready to do something. Put him on your trade bait. Put him on the trading block. Something that makes people aware that you're ready to make moves and then see what comes to you, and if nothing comes to you, then make the first move

Jeff: Yeah, that trading block feature, I think, I know Sleeper's got it. There's probably others that have it. That to me, I use that a lot because there are people who won't approach me because they d- they can't imagine I'd be willing to part with this player or want to. And then the flip of that is don't just use that feature for your garbage.

But w- j- I, I, I'm glad you wanna trade Olamide Zaccheaus. I'm, I'm proud of you. I understand it. I get it. Here is my 2029 fourth.

Frank: Yes.

Jeff: I'll drop him for you. You can handle this draft pick I can't take, and I'll drop him so you don't have to. I'll do the dirty work there. Uh, so don't put your garbage on there. I mean, like just le- leave it to, you know, the, the players that you, that could conceivably be in someone's starting lineup.

And while there were weeks that Zaccheaus could have done that, uh, he, he's not a, not an every week starter by, by what I would say

Frank: Yeah. Those are some of my favorites when people put Zaccheaus or something like that on there and say, "But look, he had that one really good week in week two. He's worth something." And they put on these big, like, car salesman pitches going on and it's just something fun. And yeah, right, the tube guy exactly. And that's how people just try and get rid of stuff. And I agree with you, that completely ruins the point of the trade block. So only put stuff on the trade block you're actually willing to get rid of and people actually want. Drop them if you don't want them

Jeff: Yep. Uh, the next one on our list we've actually kind of talked about already, which is not giving yourself permission to make mistakes. Let me skip over that one for just a moment and just tie the, the next one to what we've just been talking about, which is only communicating by trade offer. If, if the only way that you show that you're interested in trading something or the, or have that, or, or reach out is by the offer itself with no comments, with no commentary, you're costing yourself value, number one.

But two, you're also gonna actually make it harder for that trade to work, uh, because I don't know what to do necessarily in response to, "Here's an offer. It's out of the blue. It doesn't look like it makes strategic sense, uh, for me or for you. What, what were we trying to... What was the-- What were you trying to get me to do?

Uh, you know, I c- you need to give me some guidance as to what's available and what, what you're really after." Uh, unless you are truly after my top wide receiver, in which case, uh, Zaccheaus, uh, some running back in your 2028 fourth, ain't gonna, ain't gonna do it. I'll just say no.

Frank: Yeah. No, I, I think this is a good one. And on- and there almost has to be context for everything, right? We talked about this earlier, and trading in a vacuum, while that might help you come up with the right values for players in the long run, you have to have context to almost every trade or else why did you do it?

So communicating by trade offer and just someone saying like, "This is my trade for a bunch of middling wide receivers and this is w- and that's it," does nothing for anybody

Jeff: You know, I do know a number of managers who they never, they never comment on anything. They just, this is-- they send a trade offer out of the blue. They throw it over the transom, as we used to say back in the old days. Those of you under the age of 40 might need to Google what over the transom means.

Uh, you throw an offer over the transom and, and then, you know, wait and see what happens to it. And that's just... You can do that. A-and there are trades that sometimes I just send the offer because it's either really clear what we're trying to do, or I-I'm trying to just sort of gauge a valuation, see is this even something that they would consider.

Uh, and I don't wanna have to put a whole paragraph around that. But generally speaking, I like to send why I'm... I, I like to send the trade, and then in a DM, or better yet, a text message if I have that means of reaching them, what, why did I send this offer, what else I might have available if they're looking for something else.

Uh, you know, "I think you are looking, you might need another, a second starting running back, so I've got a couple of those. If you don't want this one, then this other one might be available." Uh, and then try to work a conversation like that, uh, because, you know, as you put, if you have nine people in a big blocky trade, uh, who knows what's going on with that.

It's really difficult to parse all that out if there's not that sort of communication going on. And likewise, when someone sends me a trade offer, even it's out of the blue, when it's over the transom and there's no explanation, if it's, if it's, if it's kind of a reasonable trade, I just don't want it, I, I like to send back why.

You know? I'm, I don't need-- I'm not gonna s- I can't send you my only other starting running back for some, for a good wide receiver because I've already got five of those, and I, I need the running back, so I can't. This trade may look great in a calculator, but it does me nothing

Frank: Mm-hmm. A- and

Jeff: can't do it.

And, and I can't counter it because there's nothing I can give you. There's nothing you can give me for this guy. I, I have to have him right now.

Frank: Right. I think the trade with no communication that ends up working is a very small percentage chance. I think it's under 10%, if that. I will end it on this part, though. If I see trades like this, and I'll get spammed stuff like this sometimes where someone will offer me a 2028 third and fourth for this one backup wide receiver like six times.

And I will nine times out of 10 just hit reject because I, the, you don't clearly know what you want here or what you wanna do. So I will more likely than not just reject because I know there's no actual conversation that's actually going to happen here. This was just someone who was bored and hit the button over and over and over again

Jeff: Yeah, I'm in a, a league where there are four copies of every player. And it's, yeah, it's something. And I, you know, what I see over there is managers who will make... who will send out maybe a dozen trade offers for the same set of players and kind of go with whatever the best value comes back fast. And I...

There are times when I have less than 30 minutes between when I'm aware that there was an offer made, uh, to when the p- the pieces are gone. Uh, and I haven't been able to do any kind of evaluation or any communication. And I, I just find that... I mean, I get that that's efficient. It's a good way to get value back.

But it's a really challenging way for the other trade partners to kind of approach that because, you know, if I can't look at this in 30 minutes, then it's gonna go away anyway. So it's probably just as well I was gonna reject it.

Frank: Yeah, and you might not get the best offer or you might not get the best return, right? If someone needs Josh Jacobs will continues him 'cause he's kind of a good point scoring piece. If someone needed Josh Jacobs more than the other person and you just took the first offer that was accepted, someone could have given you more and, and that's doing yourself a disservice

Jeff: That, that to me plays into the idea of patience. I mean, just give this all time to work. Nothing really has to move immediately unless the pick is on the clock, and then it does need to move fairly quickly. And even at that, at least text the guy and said, "Hey, don't pick yet. I'm gonna send you an offer."

And if it takes an hour, fine. Say, "It may take a minute because I'm about to drive home from work."

Frank: Right.

Yes

Jeff: let them know. Uh, a- a- and I think, you know, generally speaking, we play in leagues with lots of good people. Uh, and, you know, when you, when you have good people, they'll, they'll, they'll give you some, some allowance for

Frank: Yes. That's a mistake on the sheet. Don't trade and drive. Yes.

Jeff: Don't trade and drive. Do not text and drive. It can wait. Please do not do that. Just, uh, it can all wait. Just get where you're going, 'cause you cannot make a trade if you do not get home.

Frank: Yes, correct

Jeff: Yep. Any, any one- other ones we wanna cover here tonight?

Frank: I, I like the one of not giving yourself permission to make mistakes. And I think my guiding principle in trading and, and we, we talk about this a little later too, is, uh, you have to trade to make mistake. You have to trade to learn, make mistakes. You have to make bad trades. There's no such player on earth who's only made good trades.

I promise you. There will be... Anyone on Twitter can hide behind something and say, "I only make good trades." It's not

Jeff: They're lying.

Frank: Yes.

Jeff: Or they're delusional, either one.

Frank: yes or yes or both. Uh, they... You can read a ton of people. There are real- really smart dynasty analysts like Footballguys, and their record proves it. Their rankings prove it.

Congrats to Footballguys on that, by the way. Um,

Jeff: proud of those guys

Frank: yes, and you can read as much as you want, you can watch as much as you want, you can listen to as much as you want. The only way to learn is to make mistakes. I traded a 2023 first for Zach Wilson. I did that at one time, and I've learned not to do that anymore because I did that.

And the mistake I made always helps you grow to the next trade. And when I first started playing Dynasty in 2021, and granted this was the boom when everyone was sitting at home and playing fantasy

Jeff: Right. Nothing to do, right? Craved contact with

Frank: Yes, literally.

Jeff: this is good, this is as good as anything.

Frank: Even if it was texting people online. Um, I joined, I joined as many leagues as I could.

Find a $5 league. Find a $20 league. There's always orphans. There's always dispersals. Playing is the only way to learn. Playing, trading, making mistakes. You have to give yourself permission to make mistakes. You're gonna trade Kyle Pitts for a ton and, and not need all that back, or you're gonna overpay for someone.

That's fine. You will learn. You can adapt. And by the way, you can fix it. If you trade your 2027 first away, they're gonna rake you over the coals, but you can get it back. And it's gonna be hard and, and it's... You have to make mistakes. You cannot learn by just sitting stagnant and trying to improve your team and do nothing because you're scared

I love that. Love that, yeah.

You know, a little bit of confidence, but just that willingness to, to be, to be wrong. Because if you don't have that, you're gonna operate so tightly that it's just... It won't be fun, number one, um, but you're also not gonna get the best value out of it, uh, a- as a dynasty manager in this format. Um, I just have one more, and I don't-- we don't need to dwell on it. It's just simply don't be a jerk

Frank: Mm-hmm.

Jeff: There are people that I won't trade with anymore because they are jerks. There are better words than that. I'm just trying to keep this as PG as possible. So we're gonna stick with jerk. Uh, don't be one, period

Frank: Yes. Yes, I completely agree. That should be rule number one in anything, basically

Jeff: Yeah. Yeah. Well, let's shift over real quickly to how to take advantage of this when other people are making these mistakes, because we can sometimes see these coming from a mile away. Uh, i-is, is there-- And, and I think, you know, the answer, of course, I mean, is there a type of manager who's more prone to making them?

Well, f-earlier, first-time managers, number one, are, are prone to do this. Um, but even experienced managers can fall into these kinds of traps. Are there any kinds of managers that you, you sort of look at and go, "Okay, I'm gonna watch this because this guy is about to do whatever one of the mistakes that we just went over"?

Frank: Yes. So quickly, a fun fact about me is I watch The League every year before fantasy starts. It kind of gets me in the football mood. And one thing you hear from Ted, who's one of the guys, who's one of the out-of-towners at the time, is he's, he says, "You can win a league with a bunch of idiots by working only five minutes a day."

And it's true, right? Like, if you, if you spend... The, the managers who make these types of mistakes are the ones not paying attention. They don't do waivers. They barely set lineups unless you yell at them. Like, they, they don't pay attention. They're, they're arm's length away. So those are the types of managers that you look into because I promise you, when you send them that trade, they're gonna open the box score.

"Okay, this guy looks like he's been doing well the last couple weeks," and they'll accept the trade. The people who are not paying attention are the number one, I guess, target, for lack of a better word for this.

Jeff: And this is also where being patient could come into play because if they are at an arm's length and you send them an offer on Monday, they may not see it until Thursday at 6:45 when they're about to make sure that they don't have a Thursday player on their lineup. And they may see it then. So be, be, be patient with these, with these folks who are making mistakes.

Um, I'm with you. I think that it's, it's... There are always managers especially-- And we see it, I think, I, I see it more in redraft because when you start one and six in redraft, that's t- that's it. You're not... Y- y- there's nothing there really the rest of the season. You can play it out, but you're not going anywhere.

One and six in dynasty means you're vying for Jeremiah Smith or whatever, you know, whatever draft capital or other things going on. So there's, there's a reason to stay engaged. But there still are people who are not engaged. And it could be for any kind of reasons, including life reasons. I try, try to be really, uh, careful around folks who are just going through really bad personal experiences or professional experiences and, and understand that they're away from their teams through that.

But there are people who are just not connected to it. And it may be people who just shouldn't be in dynasty in the first place. Maybe they don't really get the, the, the, the year-round nature of it and all the nuance of it. Uh, a- and I don't... I sit with you. I don't have a problem with, uh, you know, taking a few things off their hands if they're not really paying attention

Frank: Especially those managers will not care about draft capital, and that's where you go get your picks

Jeff: Absolutely. Absolutely. Um, I mean, I assume that, because I do it, I assume you try to take advantage of folks who are either bored or can't evaluate players very well or don't know what to do with their draft picks

Frank: Absolutely. And it's the best trade negotiations to have, right? Because you get to be the car salesman for a second and say, "Hey, do you see this running back? He had two really good weeks." Yes, we're back to waving our arms as the tube men. Um, like, "Look at Tony Pollard. He had a great two weeks." "I don't want Tony Pollard."

"But here, you can have him for a first. He's doing really well." That's like, it's almost harder to sell those and it makes it a little more fun. And, uh, it's fun to take advantage. Obviously, like you said, if someone's got like some life stuff, I try not to. But if someone's like, you know, work was-- I can't... I have a work and I have a, like, I come home to my partner and that's, and I can't spend five minutes a day looking at it.

I have no sympathy. Everyone can make, can make a couple minutes somewhere along the line

Jeff: Yep. How do you, uh, make an offer without feeling predatory in these kinda places? Or, or, or are you, 'cause I know people are like this, are you, or you don't care that you're the vulture circling the dying animal?

Frank: I think it depends on the manager and the trade. So I believe any trade sent to me is fair game. Anything that is sent to me by someone else is completely fair game. If the league wants to vote and veto it, because, you know, I said yes to a silly trade and they shouldn't have done that, fine. I'm totally fine with that.

Where I go on the other side is I at least try to add something of value if it's like a second in 2028 or something like where I can at least put my head on the pillow at night knowing I didn't completely rob them blind. Um, but I stand firm in two things. One, any trade sent to you is fair game. Let the league figure it out.

Two, one person should never have veto rules. I don't believe in the commissioner having solo veto power, because if the commissioner is the one who is competing for a title and you get some crazy trade done that should, maybe shouldn't have happened in the first place, they're going to veto it because that makes you better and goes after their title.

There is always bias when one person has veto power. Have three, have a small shadow government, I don't care. Like have the league vote. I know. And, and when you have the league vote, take whatever seven people actually cared enough to vote and base it off of that. But one person should never, ever, ever have veto power.

And no trade deadlines. Don't do that either.

Jeff: Yep. Agree, agree, agree. Um, you know, even the savviest managers are gonna fall into these traps once in a while. Um, which of these do you find yourself falling into, if any? Maybe you don't make any mistakes, but I imagine you, like me, still make them all the time

Frank: I make them all the time. Um, I fall for offenses a lot, and whether that's a new QB, a new OC. Last year my bold take was the Jets were gonna be a top 10 offense. I looked really good for the first week when Justin Fields was doing those wheeled route or those, uh, tuck touchdowns and all that stuff, and he was running the other way for 50 yards.

That looked really good for a week.

Jeff: Yeah. Then, then they had tape on that and that was that.

Frank: yeah, and then it didn't. And then when he couldn't script everything for a whole game, he got in trouble. But I fall for that a lot, and I'm really trying to pull back, and sometimes that leads me to not liking a McDaniel to the Chargers as much as everyone else, 'cause I'm so gun-shy of, like, buying back into the next hot coordinator being somewhere else.

I-- So those are the mistakes I make, is, is like if Fields is going to the Jets or, like, the Wilson trade I made because, um, they just added Garrett Wilson and they signed this and Breece Hall is gonna be awesome, and they fixed the line. Look at the line. How could Zach Wilson mess this up? It's one of those

Jeff: the ways.

Frank: yeah, right, and then he did. It's one of those things where I, I will fall for offenses a little too much, and I'm trying to pull back on the yoke on that a little, and I think it probably has made me be a little, um, anti-new offenses. Like, the offense I'm falling for this year, and I'll just say it, is the Saints.

I think they're gonna be unbelievable. I have "Eti-Chane," as I call him, um, as a, you know, top 12 running back this year maybe, and, like, as high as that, and he could have 10 touchdowns and 1,000 yards and I love this offense and that could easily burn me. And

Jeff: still having trouble getting in the end zone, even in the first week of practice. But it is still the first week of practice, so,

Frank: Yes. So that's usually my mistakes I fall for, is I will fall for situations over talent, and I think s-situations don't fix talent or fix value, and I will tie myself to that a little too often

It's, it's one of those things where I think you wanna get excited about things. I think that's why I fall for offenses and stuff. Like, you want something new and different and, and kinda take-y at the same time. Like, uh, the thing that makes dynasty managers stand out is they make a kind of a take or a lean that other people don't agree with, and they're right.

That's the other thing about, like, not being afraid to make mistakes. Like, again, I said the Jets were gonna be a top 10 offense. I have fallen for the Jets more than just about anybody in the dynasty space. I am going to probably fall for the Jets again at some point.

But, um, I think everyone strives to find something to be excited about or something different, and sometimes the world and the market is right.

You don't have to go so crazily the other direction just to be different and try and do something crazy

Jeff: Well, Frank, this has been a lot of fun. I hope everybody watching or listening has had some fun with us and probably, uh, smacked their forehead a couple of times for things that they now recognize that they've done, uh, that maybe they could have, uh, avoided. But, uh, if a manager were just taking one thing away from our conversation, uh, what would it be?

Frank: Trade, trade, trade. Don't be afraid to make mistakes. You are allowed to do a wrong trade. It's not gonna be the end of the world

Jeff: Sun will still rise tomorrow. Your team's gonna lose, but that's okay. It will

Frank: It's a game, it's fun. En- enjoy it. Make a trade, do something crazy

Jeff: Go get Skattebo. Just go, go along for the ride.

Frank: Yes. Don't trade two firsts for him, but go get Skattebo.

Jeff: No, unless you want him off my roster. I still have him in a couple places. I'll take two first for him, yeah, just send it over.

Frank: Exactly

Jeff: Well, uh, Frank, let everybody know where, where they could find you aside from in the chat, but you might tell them which chats they could find you in

Frank: yes. Um, I am in a lot of chats. I'm like the wind. But, uh, you can find me on, uh, socials @FrankInTheChat, um, Twitter, Blue Sky, YouTube, all that stuff. So if you see a guy named Frank in the chat with a little AIM logo, that's me, um, hiding and lurking in these chats. And, uh, yeah, "Trade Addicts" podcast, we record every Tuesday.

Um, we have a Patreon if people wanna watch us live, uh, record live, and, uh, yeah, I usually put it out Tuesday nights. So, um, I really appreciate you having me on, though. This has been fun

Jeff: Well, thanks so much. A- and it's been a pleasure getting to know you through the chat. You've been a longtime friend of Footballguys and haunted those f- uh, those chats for quite some time, uh, and some of the live videos, uh, that we do. It's always appreciated. Trivia night, uh, it's where you and I kind of chat a lot ourselves, and of course getting to run into you in Canton.

Well, I don't even... I didn't even run into you. I mean, we, we actually, you know, tried to get

Frank: Yes, absolutely

Jeff: was, uh, that was always a pleasure seeing you in three dimensions, pleasure in two dimensions as well, and even one dimension when we are just chatting off-

Frank: Yes, likewise

Jeff: yes. And thanks to everyone else, uh, for tuning in, for, uh, watching us on YouTube or listening on your favorite podcast platform.

If you've liked the conversation you've heard, please, uh, put that like, please subscribe, five-star review or five-star rating and a review on Apple would be really helpful right about now. And as we are nearing, uh, the season, we'll be pivoting a little bit in format, but don't worry, we will still be bringing you, uh, some great dynasty insights that you will be able to use in your leagues immediately.

Uh, and we'll have another episode of Dynasty Compass next week, so please come back. Thanks.

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