Thriving in Marriage as Disability Parents with Todd and Kristin Evans

Ep 13 — There's a myth out there that raising a child with disabilities will doom a marriage. But the data tells a different story. In our conversation, authors Todd and Kristin Faith Evans join Amy Julia Becker to offer simple ways for couples to connect in the midst of both the ordinary and the most intense family circumstances. There's a lot of hope in this episode!

00:00 Intro: Marriage and parenting a child with a disability
05:52 Challenges and possibilities parents face
09:28 The power of vulnerability in relationships
12:02 Marriage Triage: What to do when your marriage is in crisis
16:36 Alone Time, Together Time: Why both matter

Mentioned:

• www.DisabilityParenting.com
• How to Build a Thriving Marriage as You Care for Children with Disabilities by Kristin Faith Evans, MA, MS, LMSW and Todd Evans, PhD, MA

Ask Me Anything: Record (or email) your question for our upcoming Ask Me Anything episode: amyjuliabecker.com/qr/

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WATCH this conversation on YouTube: Amy Julia Becker on YouTube

SUBSCRIBE to Amy Julia's Substack: amyjuliabecker.substack.com

JOIN the conversation on Instagram: @amyjuliabecker

LISTEN to more episodes: amyjuliabecker.com/shows/

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ABOUT OUR GUESTS:

Dr. Todd and Kristin Faith Evans are celebrating twenty-four years of marriage. They are award-winning authors, national speakers, and disability parents. They are passionate about empowering other parents of children with additional needs with the skills to thrive at www.DisabilityParenting.com. They co-wrote their multi award-winning book, How to Build a Thriving Marriage as You Care for Children with Disabilities (Baker Books). They both earned their MA in Christian Spiritual Formation at Wheaton College in Illinois and have served together in full-time ministry in church, camping, and retreat settings. Todd received his PhD from Vanderbilt University’s School of Engineering and currently manages his own businesses, and Kristin earned her MSW from the University of Tennessee and is a licensed master social worker experienced in couples, child and family, substance abuse, and crisis counseling. They enjoy traveling and the outdoors together.

Website and social media links:

https://disabilityparenting.com/

https://www.instagram.com/disabilityparenting/

https://www.facebook.com/kristin.evans.5895/

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Take the Next Step is produced in collaboration with Hope Heals. Hope Heals creates sacred spaces of belonging and belovedness for families affected by disabilities to experience sustaining hope in the context of inclusive, intentional, inter-ability communities. Find out more about our resources, gatherings, and inter-ability communities at hopeheals.com. Follow us on Instagram @hopeheals.

Transcript

Note: This transcript is autogenerated and does contain errors. Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.

Amy Julia Becker (00:06)
I'm Amy Julia Becker and this is Take the Next Step, a podcast for families experiencing disability. We have teamed up with our friends at Hope Heals to bring you weekly conversations with fellow parents, therapists, and disability advocates about practical ways to cultivate a thriving future for your whole family. Here at Take the Next Step, we see your family as a gift to our society and to your local community.

Your family matters, your child matters. We need you among us. If you are listening to this episode right when it first releases, then it is February and Valentine's Day is approaching. Not all of us celebrate Valentine's Day. I'm a little bit of a Valentine's Day curmudgeon actually. And not all of us who are listening are married or dating. But since the time of year is what it is, for those of you who are married and who are also a parent or caregiver to a child with a disability,

This conversation might feel timely and this conversation is for you. I am talking today with Todd and Kristin Evans. They have been married for 24 years and they are authors, national speakers and disability parents. They've written a book about how to build a thriving marriage within the particular circumstances of disability parenting. We'll talk about the challenges and opportunities that exist for disability parents and some practical ways to connect and thrive as couples.

And for those of you who are not in a relationship right now of marriage or dating and that type of support, we will also speak at a later episode about the challenges and opportunities for single parents.

Here I am with Todd and Kristin Evans, who between the two of them have the personal experience of raising a child with disabilities. And we're going to hear about that in a minute. Kristin also has the professional background of being a licensed social worker. So there's this combination of personal and professional expertise that we're getting to hear from today. You've written a book together called How to Build a Thriving Marriage as You Care for Children with Disabilities, which

The title alone probably explains why I have you here to talk with me today. But I thought we could just begin with like a brief introduction to your family. you just tell us a little bit about who you are as a family?

Kristin Evans (02:26)
Yeah, so Todd and I got married 24 years ago. We're going to celebrate our 25th this year. Congratulations. Thank you. It's been quite a journey. And our goal was to go into ministry together, actually camping and retreat ministry. We started on that path. And then as we began to have a family, it kind of became clear, I'm not sure that's going to happen.

⁓ And when we had our second child, Bethany Grace, who just turned 16, our family dynamic was just totally thrown into a whirlwind, not even flipped upside down, but just thrown into a cyclone. ⁓ And we really began to struggle. And then, so we will kind of share what that very hard journey was like. And once we kind of came out,

to a healthy place, I decided I really want to help families not struggle like we did. And so I went back to grad school to get my master's in social work and I'm a research nerd, began to research and then Todd and I said, we had to struggle through figuring out how to thrive. Let's write a book so other people don't have to.

Amy Julia Becker (03:50)
I so appreciate that and ⁓ love, obviously, the book itself. One of the things that you write early on in the book, I'm going to quote you, you say, let's debunk the popular myth. There is not an 80 percent risk for divorce for parents of children with disabilities. Our marriage wasn't doomed and neither is yours. So I'd love to unpack that a little bit. Where does the myth come from? ⁓ But also, what do we know about the challenges and maybe we could also say the opportunities that come up for couples who are raising kids with disabilities?

Todd Evans (04:21)
Yeah, we hear that so often from couples that 80 % quote is just out there, it's famous, everybody feels it. And I think it's because it's this easy number to kind of think about and focus on and be like, yeah, this is hard for us, know, trying to stay married and raise our kids. So that makes sense. It's 80%. But reality, Kristen, like she said, she's a research nerd. So she really went in depth. ⁓

Kristin Evans (04:44)
found where it came from.

Todd Evans (04:46)
trying to figure out where this came from. And it was really just a made up newscast that somebody put on the news. Quoted the number. So it's not based on research. It's not based on reality. And honestly, that's one of the things that as we work more more with couples through the years, we just keep finding is that that number is not true with what we see. The research doesn't show it. ⁓ And what I find encouraging, and as we're working on this book and the prep for it, what we discovered was is that

Kristin Evans (04:53)
The number

Todd Evans (05:16)
Couples that are raising a child with a disability, if they're willing to put in the work and do things together, their marriages are actually richer, fuller, and more meaningful than your average marriage. And there's a very high rate of people staying together with that. Yes, there are divorces, very similar numbers to the greater community. I found so much hope just in that aspect of things is that

We personally found what people tell us is just how much richer life can be in the middle of these struggles and stress.

Amy Julia Becker (05:52)
Will you speak to those things a little bit? Like what are some of the particular challenges? They might seem obvious, but I think it's maybe good to name some of the challenges that ⁓ couples who are raising children with disabilities might experience. But also, as you said, like what might be something that makes it like richer or that brings ⁓ opportunities into our families?

Kristin Evans (06:13)
Yeah, every parents are stressed. mean, 80 % of parents in general feel overwhelmed every day. you have every aspect of life in parenting and trying to stay afloat financially. When you have a child who has any type of disability or mental health disorder or medical complexities, all those stresses are amplified exponentially. So

For instance, trying to figure out just a daily schedule, how we're going to pay for everything is amplified because you've got a child that has all these extra doctor's appointments, which takes up time and money. One parent probably had to quit work to full-time caregiving, which I did ⁓ for years. And then you've got, like you're having these arguments about, well, I can't take her. Can you take her? Well, no, I can't take her. I have to work. And then you've got

One of the big ones is the chronic stress that can build up over years changes your body's chemistry, your neural networks. And when your bodies are in a state of chronic stress, you can't connect on an emotional or physical level, especially moms. Moms have a really hard time de-stressing. So that starts to just make it really hard. And one of the big ones is we did not understand

the grief. And we did not understand it actually until we researched for this book five years ago. That was one of the biggest wedges. We thought acute grief, kind of like the five stages when a child passes away. You kind of go through that initially. We grieved together. We were devastated. ⁓ And then Todd thought, okay, it's time to move on.

And I couldn't figure out what was going on. He's like, why can't you move on? And I'm like, I don't know. And then there's also the trauma and I had the PTSD going on too. But what we found is parents who have a child with a chronic condition experience chronic sorrow. So for example, our daughter just turned 16. Yes, we are so joyful. We're so grateful. She is just...

Amy Julia Becker (08:26)
Hmm.

Kristin Evans (08:35)
the light of the room. But at the same time, it was her sweet 16 and we were having a toddler party.

Todd Evans (08:45)
So you have plastic car keys, a plastic driver's license, and a purse, and a Minnie Mouse bar. She had so much fun with it.

Kristin Evans (08:51)
She loved it. But

it was just, those emotions are intense and complicated. And couples usually, spouses aren't going through the process the same. The same emotions, the same way, it comes in waves. That was one of the biggest struggles that almost destroyed our marriage.

Todd Evans (09:17)
And so the opportunity for richness, you know, out of that, that there's that struggle there. That's what we try to help couples do. I think naming the issues is one of the biggest thing you can do and just saying, I am struggling with this. You have to be willing to open that communication with your partner. And when you do that and have that vulnerability with your partner, it opens the opportunity to talk, to care for each other. And that's where you see the richness comes in. It takes time. It takes some intentionality. But normally it's just...

the simple act of saying something like, I'm having a hard time with this. Can you listen to me? Can you listen to me?

Kristin Evans (09:51)
and your spouse.

And this is where the struggle came in. Todd was like, okay, what medicines does Bethany Grace need?

Amy Julia Becker (10:03)
Moving on.

Kristin Evans (10:05)
I have had just an overwhelming day and so rote Lee even learning to say that sounds really hard. I don't understand, but I want to.

Amy Julia Becker (10:17)
Yeah.

Todd Evans (10:17)
able to start saying those things and then it opened up just to like I said a vulnerability and a connectedness that we didn't have before by being able to care for each other in that way and to work together on these issues and ⁓ raising our child.

Amy Julia Becker (10:33)
And

it is so interesting, right? mean, those experiences, whether it's of grief or of suffering, ⁓ or of just stress in general, are almost their own stress tests of our relationships so that they can either push us away from each other or towards each other in an almost more intense way than just kind of everyday life might.

You know, we had such an interesting experience on our side where my husband's mom had died of cancer two years before our daughter Penny was born and diagnosed with Down syndrome. So we'd gone through this experience of grief and loss, and we really did not understand each other in that experience and really judged each other. I really thought he should have been feeling more feelings and he really thought I should have been hoping more hope. Like, I it just was like, my gosh. And in some ways, it was such a gift because when

Penny was born again, we were in really different places. And instead of judging each other for it, we were like, yeah, like I remember, like this is not you not grieving and this is not you not having hope and joy and love. It's just how you're working through this. And it was like, we were able to carry each other, carry each other rather than judge each other, but it took learning to get to that play out for sure.

And so I just really appreciate that. Like even just what you said, like learning some kind of standard, like I don't understand. Can you tell me more? That sounds really hard, you know, like some kind of standard responses. So, yeah, that's just really helpful. And I know that you all have already mentioned that, you've weathered your own storms in marriage and as parents and have written a whole book about it. I'm thinking about parents who are listening right now. We don't know your particular situation.

But if you are a listener who knows that your marriage is not as healthy as you want it to be, are there any kind of immediate suggestions? Like if you think about almost like triage, these are three things that we're just gonna look for or address immediately, ⁓ even if there might be some longer term things to also pay attention to.

Kristin Evans (12:35)
Yeah, and I just want to say every marriage has stress and we all have areas we can make stronger. But for specifically parents who have a child with additional needs, there's three areas. ⁓ One is time together, which is greatly impacted. And what research shows, one small thing you can start to do today, you commit to even just a five minute

check-in and whether it's lunchtime you talk on the phone after you put your kids to bed somewhere you know you're you're committing to each other and just alone committing to that time builds trust and when you have that five minute check-in it is only about you caring for one another in the relationship not about me caring for one another

Todd Evans (13:29)
schedule

Kristin Evans (13:34)
another and ideally you would build up to 10 minutes but even just five minutes a day. The second area is in order to have a healthy marriage we have to reduce our own stress levels and improve our mental health because over one in three disability parents struggle with clinical depression and anxiety and almost that many with post-traumatic stress disorder.

And so we have to be very intentional about doing the little things throughout the day that reduce our stress levels.

Todd Evans (14:09)
We're not talking about an hour to go off and have quiet time. No. This is the stuff where like make coffee in the morning and put creamer in it or something. And I spend 30 seconds just watching the creamer mix in with coffee. Mindfully. And mindfully just pause briefly and watch it and think about, you know, for me, I think about kind of what's permeating my life as it mixes into the creamer. And for me, know, let's think about God mixing into my life today.

Amy Julia Becker (14:32)
Hmm.

Todd Evans (14:38)
or something like that, or it takes just, when I feel really stressed, it's just one self-recognition that you are stressed, but literally one to three, really three deep breaths.

just take them and it can change your day just to take three breaths. We're not talking long amounts of time and commitment. This is little bitty ways like that. That's a couple of them.

Kristin Evans (15:03)
Yeah, mindfulness is huge. It reduces your stress levels, lowers your heart rate, ⁓ even can rewire your brain.

Todd Evans (15:12)
Another good one that's marriage related is when you see your spouse, just give them a 30 second hug. In the little moments. Don't just say hi. Just hug them. Look at you kind of funny the first time and be like, okay, I like it, but I like it. That can just change your spouse's day and yours too.

Amy Julia Becker (15:35)
I love that. That sense of connection physically, not just in, I mean, the five minutes is awesome, but like also actually physically being like, I am connected to you in care and in embrace. Yeah, I love that.

Kristin Evans (15:47)
research shows you have to have so many positive interactions and disability parents don't have the opportunities. And so just these little gestures of, thinking about you ⁓ and I care about you. So this is a very silly example, but things like, for some reason, Todd and I are sharing a toothbrush charger. We can't find the other one. And so we're kind of like, died the other day. And so last night I'm like, where's my toothbrush?

He had taken the time to put my toothbrush on the toothbrush holder, on the charger. And just that little act was like, he's thinking about me, he cares about me, and we don't have time for big gestures. And so those little gestures add up.

Amy Julia Becker (16:34)
I love that. That's beautiful. Well, let's talk about time for a minute because that is one of the real ⁓ areas you've already named it. Not just time together, but also time away from our children, like, you know, time alone together. What are some steps that people can take to actually get that type of time, whether that is individually or as a couple? And why is it so important?

Todd Evans (16:58)
Yeah, first you just have to say that you have to have the time because none of us have the time Things can always fill it our kids needs other needs never again. So first of all, you have to carve it out and say yeah, I Will take this time whatever it is, whether it's one minute five minutes ten minutes ⁓ And you say I've got to just do it. Yeah, so you you can talk to your spouse and say I have to have some time. Can you give me

five minutes. It may be a one time question that you ask that of and say, I'm having a hard day. It's been stressful at the house or stressful at work. I need to go back to the room for five minutes. Can you cover and tag your it kind of what we do. That's one way. I'm out. Or it can be a regular thing and just the saying, you know, I need whether it's time in the morning, similarly, or

I'm in a group of dads that we meet on Zoom every week because we can't get out of the house often. So she's dedicated that time to me and said, I know it's important for you to have that support of the dads and that camaraderie. ⁓ So I will give that as a gift to you every week, ⁓ an hour, 15 minutes on Monday nights and doing that. So the biggest thing is really communicating the importance of it and setting aside that priority for each other.

Kristin Evans (18:23)
But then I think as a couple, that's where it gets hard. It can feel impossible to spend time together outside the house, but research shows if you get out of the house, it actually does lower your stress levels. have to get out, especially moms, get out of that stress, but it can feel impossible. So that's where, you know, we kind of walk couples through baby steps. ⁓

of maybe it's just 30 minutes. get out of the house, get to walk together. And that can be hard because like a child who has serious medical conditions that needs constant care on a ventilator, suctioning or things like that, a friend just can't come over and watch a child. So it's these baby steps of one, committing to figuring out how to do it. And then two, working through.

what do we have to do to make this happen? Get a grant from the state to hire a nurse or there's ways and it can feel like, no, we can't leave our child. But in order for your child to thrive and be healthy, we've got to. So just encourage couples, whether it's 10 minutes, 30 minutes, sit down and figure out we're gonna make this happen.

Todd Evans (19:37)
Even if it's having a friend come over and just saying we're gonna be within a half mile of the house and we're gonna go for a walk We're here for an emergency. Can you just listen for our kid? Right. We'll be right here. that can be you imagine that just the Renewal you feel from that short moment of getting away from a monitor just to refresh yourself

Kristin Evans (19:45)
or a pic-

We'll run back.

And

you can just breathe together.

Amy Julia Becker (20:04)
Well, this is somewhat related as a little bit of a follow up, but how and when do you advise that couples or individuals seek outside help? Whether that is you need to make sure you like call in a friend or, you know, ask for help from a church community or professional help, like seeking out a therapist or a social worker or something like that.

Todd Evans (20:24)
Always, all the time.

Amy Julia Becker (20:27)
That's for real, I agree actually.

Kristin Evans (20:29)
I would say proactively, especially a support group that is so critical. There's really good online live support groups. We have links on our website because we feel like in the research shows that is critical to be in a support group. Church community, not every church has. ⁓

We're blessed to be at a church that has a caregiver support group. But I would say if you can find one friend who has a child with a disability, just one mom or one dad, having that connection with just one other parent, whether you just talk on the phone, if you can actually somehow get together for coffee, ⁓ but also it can be really hard.

to go to professional counseling, the money, the time, the childcare, but there's great online therapists. just say, please research, there are bad therapists. ⁓ But there are very good ones. And I would say any parent who has a child, whether they just got the diagnosis, they've known the diagnosis, we can all benefit from counseling if nothing else to learn new coping skills.

Amy Julia Becker (21:31)
Right.

Kristin Evans (21:49)
for how to lower our stress and to process that grief. And as couples, any couple could benefit.

Amy Julia Becker (21:56)
Totally. And for people who don't have the time or the money for professional therapists, I will say your book is really filled with not only practical exactly what you just have given us a little glimpse of, here's some exercises, like some actual things you can do, but then walking people through good questions, questions for each other. And again,

for any of us, it is hard to find time and yet those you've broken it down in a way that I think could be really actionable for people. So thank you for that. just, as we come to an end, I wanna review as I always do at the end of these conversations, like what are these kind of actionable steps, like meaningful and manageable ways that we can build thriving marriages. I love the hopefulness of the idea that like our families really can be ones where we are thriving and flourishing.

And that is blessing, obviously, to our kids, but also to our whole communities when that begins to happen. So I'll give you a chance to add on to anything I say. I just some things that I've heard you say is just like naming the struggle and being willing to be vulnerable with each other, but also responding honestly, like responding when a spouse does name a struggle. And even if that honest response is I don't understand, that's still a point of connection. I love the give a 30 second hug.

Spend five, commit to five minutes a day of connecting, you know, kind of verbally or being present to each other just about how you're doing. ⁓ Get outside of the house and you can, it sounds like give that to each other, but also just that like 30 minutes outside of the house together. Even if it feels like you have to move mountains, it is worth it. And then finally find a support group, which I just really appreciate you emphasizing that. And again, the fact that we can give this to one another.

Obviously, we also have perhaps parents who are listening who are in single mom or single dad or single caregiver situations. And that is an episode that we will be addressing or a topic we'll be addressing on a different episode of this podcast. But that sense of just we really need each other as couples, we really need each other as communities. And we want to be able to be creating spaces where that's possible. Anything you all would add just as we think about caregivers and parents who are listening right now?

Todd Evans (24:11)
I just think to encourage you that you're in a unique position that is truly amazing. It can be one of the most challenging, difficult things in life, but it can be one of the most rewarding for you, your family, and for those around you. And it's easy to get caught up in the struggle and stress of it, but try to look on the good side too, and look for those bright moments, those rainbows that come through, and they'll see you through the hard times.

Amy Julia Becker (24:40)
Well, thank you both for the work that you've done and are doing in this area. We will make sure we link to both your book and your social media because I know you're active there as well. And we really appreciate what you've shared with us today.

Kristin Evans (24:53)
Thank you so much.

Amy Julia Becker (24:59)
Thanks so much for joining me here at Take the Next Step. This show is produced in partnership with our friends at Hope Heals, a nonprofit that creates sacred spaces of belonging and belovedness for families affected by disability to experience sustaining hope in the context of inter-ability communities. Few announcements, we are gathering your questions for an upcoming Ask Me Anything episode.

Click the link in the show notes to record a question or you can send it by email. That link is also in the show notes. We would love to hear from you. We also have some more great conversations in store for you. Next week, I will be talking with Angela O'Brien, who is another disability mom, and she's also a professional organizer. And we're going to talk about organizing. How do we organize our lives, our spaces, our papers? ⁓ And how do we do that in a way that really, again, allows for a thriving family culture?

We're going to talk about some questions like what is disability and how do we talk about it? ⁓ In upcoming episodes, we're going to address caregiving, finding belonging in faith communities and so much more. So please stick around. The way to make sure that this comes into your podcast feed every week is to follow the show. You also can rate and review it. That allows more people by the algorithm to know that this show is out there. And of course you can also just hand deliver it by sending a link ahead.

and along to a friend or a family member who you think might benefit from this conversation. I also would just love to hear from you in general. If you have questions or suggestions for topics or for guests, you can always tap the send us a text link at the end of the show notes or email me directly at amyjuliabeckerwriter at gmail.com.

I also want to give thanks at the end of the show every time to Jake Hansen for editing this podcast and to Amber Berry, my assistant for doing everything else to make sure it happens. And thank you for being here. I hope you leave this time with encouragement to start with delight, connect to community and take the next small step toward a good future for your feet.