BITTERSWEET END: Examining Illinois' Final Four Season Plus Looking Ahead

In this episode of the pod, Said is joined by Elliot Casey of The Champaign Room. They discuss what the Final Four season brought. They discuss their Final Four takeaways, favorite season highlight, favorite players and break down their expectations for what the future holds.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:12

All right. Welcome to the Line Out Ottawa podcast. My name is Said Bravo. Thank you so much for tuning into this episode of The Pod. As always, I really, really appreciate it. And at this point, it is April 9th, and the Illinois men's basketball season has concluded. I know it's been a while since you know this the season did end. It was last Saturday. It ended in Indianapolis. Uh, and today I have with me Elliot Casey, who was with me in Indianapolis. We both covering uh this Alni team and their final full run, at least the latter half of it in Indianapolis. Well, how are you doing, Elliot? I'm good, man.

SPEAKER_01 0:51

I'm good. It's given me uh some almost a week now to uh process it and unpack kind of what happened. It felt a world felt like a whirlwind of things going on when we were there. Um, you know, both before the game, after the game, during the game. Um, but nonetheless, I mean, so glad that that we were able to cover such a such an amazing event with with our team, you know, covering our team. We've been covering all season, and they really were able to make the trip to the final four. Just unbelievable. Unbelievable.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

I am very I am so grateful that they got to that point, right? Like we all we'll get into a them losing, get to Yukon and all that. But I am so grateful that they got to that point because man, well, I'll tell you, I really wish we could have gone to Greenville. I wish we could have gone to Houston, but alas, the fact that they made it to Indianapolis a very small two-hour drive away, and that was awesome to be at that stage in a historic place. But before we really dive into all of that, Elliot, I know it was your first uh first season really on a beat. And and we were talking, we've talked a lot more since those couple road trips that we had, those those rides in the car that we you and me both had, along with Cooper O'Kelly, who came with us on that Friday morning for media availability. What was it like for you, man? Because I know you you really haven't been in that, like to cover this team and to cover a Final Four in your really your first season covering men's basketball as a student reporter and even really being on a beat. I mean, what was that like?

SPEAKER_01 2:32

Yeah, I mean, I'll go back to the start. I mean, uh it was a contrast in in the way I felt after going to my first media availability at Rosemont for Big Ten media days on October uh ninth, I believe it was. Um, yeah, I mean, I remember being super scared to to talk to Hummerkaus and Boswell and Underwood for the first time. Um, and you know, I walked into this this huge hall, and there's just 18 podiums, 18 different Big Ten teams, all with their coaches and their players ready to talk and national media outlets left and right. I mean, it I I was I didn't know what to do. I mean, I I I managed to get out of that situation proud and confident in the questions that I ended up asking and the article that I ended up writing. But but from then to now, I mean, it's crazy how far me, both me and you have come, but me specifically, um, with this being my first full season as a beat reporter, um, and and it's just crazy that I got to do it for one of the most historic Illinois basketball teams ever, frankly. And um yeah, I mean, I'd say the closest thing to the Final Four for me all season was probably the Big Ten tournament at the United Center. Um and obviously we didn't get to spend as much time there and there wasn't as much access, but but even even that, every every game, every new game I covered, every new stadium I went to, Mackey Arena, United Center, whatever it may be, I mean, just took away something new each time. And and um in return, you know, now I just I'm confident in these types of situations, and I I felt calm and composed in a locker room with uh with our team.

SPEAKER_00 4:19

That is that is that is awesome. I I'm so happy to hear that, but especially just as someone who I know, I know you and me are really close in age, but relative to you know how long you've been doing this and how long I've been doing this, I know it's not that much, but it those reps really do matter, not to get too much inside baseball, but those reps that you've gotten this first season are gonna serve you really well, and I hope to really continue seeing you grow next season. Obviously, I won't be here, but you know, it neither here nor there. But man, Final Four, it was something that we really I think every every Alliney fan, every person, every member of the community really relished in that week in between Illinois winning that Elite Eight game, and then coming into uh that weekend in Indy with where so many fans and the orange and blue really showed up, especially that open practice is really everybody has kind of mentioned at this point. What did you make of that loss against Yukon? Because obviously I think people could came into it, and it's including me, thinking that Illinois had a really, really good shot at winning that game, but the way that game really unfolded, it felt like Illinois just did not. I don't know if it maybe did not do enough uh differently to win that game. I know a lot of things went into like like the rim was somewhat of a storyline after the north rim was somewhat of a storyline afterwards that maybe someone needs to do a little bit more digging on specifically. But I guess what did you make of that loss?

SPEAKER_01 5:55

Yeah, um, so obviously coming into it, you know, I think Alani fans did have this sense of confidence just because of how many fans were were forming this revolution for the orange and blue. And everybody showed up to the departure um at the practice facility where they where they were on the send-off to Indy. You know, Underwood gave the speech, a couple players gave speeches, every all the players and Underwood just empowering the fans. Um, and and what that kind of did is I think both both the players and the fans went into the game with a sense of confidence, like I was saying. But at the end of the day, you know, yukon was historically good in the Final Four before Saturday night, and Illinois was historically bad. And and those trends continued. Um, like you said, the the speculation about the left rim. I mean, either way, Illinois couldn't make anything. Six threes out of 26 on the night after only making three in the Elite Eight game against Iowa. Um, you know, you can't expect to win these types of games when you're when you're just simply not knocking down your shots. Um, but but that being said, they did such a good job of keeping themselves in the game, even though they weren't making shots. Um, you know, the offense, like they always do, did a pretty good job getting to the rim and and getting those second chance offensive rebounds. Um, but again, you know, they only had three assists on them. And I think it comes down to they just needed to share the ball a little bit more. It seemed like it was a little too much of attacking one-on-one mismatches. I know that's something specifically that this Tyler Underwood-led offense likes to do. Um, you know, if you have if you have Tommy in the post on a guard, you know, obviously he's just gonna go get himself a bucket. But um when those started to not go down, I mean, I felt something needed to be changed. And I think, I think sharing the ball would have been um would have been some sort of a valve there. But um, yeah, I mean, with three minutes left to play, uh, Hummerkaus nailed a triple um to to put it in reach of a comeback, and and Wagler brought it down even to a four-point lead. I think it was Yukon had. Um, but then Braylon Mullins, obviously coming off of that shot against Duke, I think he finished with 15 points on the night um and and four triples. He knocked down most important one of the night when it mattered for Yukon and and kind of put the put the nail in the in the coffin to send the Alana home. But um, yeah, I mean, you can tell that it meant so much to the players, especially, especially Ben and Kylan and the international guys and playing on a stage that they had never played on in their lives. Um, Soyakovich himself also had never played into March Madness. Um, and obviously, you know how much it means to Underwood working for this since he joined in 2017, and obviously coming from his Juco coaching background, um, and making it this far with Illinois. I mean, you can you can just tell how much he and the players love the fans and how much they appreciated uh them coming out and filling the entire west side of the stands with with orange on Friday and um and filling majority of the stadium on Saturday.

SPEAKER_00 8:59

Yeah, no, no question about it. You you you did talk you did touch on it a little bit. The fact that those there were some balls that you know you felt like I don't know if you saw these videos after the game on on like whether it was Instagram or TikTok, but the ball just rolling in and out of the basket was the number a the number of those types of balls that didn't go in was pretty staggering. I don't have the specific number, but it felt like so much more. And after after the game, we did get a sense of what what it felt like post-game, and it really the the resounding message felt like besides obviously the the sorrowness of the abruptness of the end, as Underwood likes to put it, but the fact that it just wasn't their day, as you said, it felt like Illinois was staying, it was doing a good job to stay in reach for most of that game. I mean, with like around 10 to 12 minutes left in that second half, there was a point where uh Yukon was up by a pretty big margin. And it felt like if this continued, then Illinois's chances at winning this game were close to zero, but they kept staying at bay with with Yukon, and Yukon really wasn't closing out that game as well. They you conn let Illinois uh hang for quite a quite a while, and like you said, it wasn't until that last shot uh that Braden Mullins had, it was a three-point shot. And I think a lot of people forget too that right after that, Keaton Wagler returned the favor like immediately, and you felt like maybe that was the last sip of hope that you had if you're uh as an Alani fan, but ultimately it wasn't enough because Illinois, like you said, just did not do enough to have to miss 23-point shots is a staggering amount, and to only shoot, I believe they shot 36% from the field. Uh, that's just not gonna do it in a game of this stage, in a game of this caliber against an opponent like UConn. And you did get the sense of what kind of mentality this Yukon team had going into this game. And uh I was sharing that a little bit of that at the media workroom with you, Elliot. But I had a chance on Friday before the game. This was Friday morning after Illinois media availability. I checked out the uh Yukon locker room, and boy will I tell you, that locker room was just it really felt like business as usual. While Illinois had, and this is not to say that Illinois had no right to, Illinois should be, these Illinois players should be happy, they should be savoring all these moments that they will have for the rest of their lives. But you just saw a stark difference between what the Illinois locker room was versus what the Yukon locker room was. On one hand, Illinois was soaking in and all the immediate attention and all as they should. On the other hand, you just had a Yukon, which is just a behemoth of a program in general. Obviously, not as many guys have been at that stage when it comes to that Yukon team. But you had one or two guys who had been there before, and most importantly, uh Danny Hurley, who is accustomed to winning, who wanted to make is bullish on making that team uh a championship team year in and year out. Obviously, they came short of that, but man, you saw that mentality play out and and how that it was just really staggering to see what that was like before the game actually unfolded, to see every player just kind of be there, but not really miserable, but just kind of they were just kind of there, like business as usual. And I can tell you, best time when I was told by a couple of my other colleagues, uh, that that Yukon locker room after Illinois win, after that win over Illinois, excuse me, on Saturday was equally as stationary, as calm as can be, as let's get to the next thing. And it's just these two programs are at two different stages. One where UConn has been in this spot as a program for a long, long time and is accustomed to getting to this stage of Illinois hasn't done this in 21 years. And it felt like maybe you felt that on Saturday, and you felt that over the course of the week. But with that being said, I do think Underwood and the Illinois program had a right to flex his muscles, had a right to smile as much as they did, because this is an accomplishment that not that many teams uh have year in and year out. And Illinois, getting to the stage, breaking through like they did this past season, incredibly important, regardless of what happened on Saturday.

SPEAKER_01 13:58

Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, I think you you touched on a good bit of it, but like they had every right to soak all of that in. I mean, Underwood having climbed the ladder and and all these play like I mean, Kylan, Kylan hadn't ever hadn't ever been to the final four. Hummerkouts, a guy who played D2 basketball in in, I don't know where he played, but from Indiana, kid from Indiana, D2 basketball. None of them, none of them were had ever been at that stage, all the internationals as well, going straight from from Euro basketball to Final Four on the pinnacle of college basketball. I mean, yeah, they had it, they had every every right to soak in, and especially Underwood, because I think it gave them a sense of wow, like this team was so special. I'm glad that we have something to show for it, you know.

SPEAKER_00 14:45

Yeah, no, no question about that. And and you you talk about, I mean, Underwood, 39 years to have gone coaching without having reached that stage as a head coach, and really all that all that often. It's just it's crazy to think about how much work and how much it meant to all these guys because uh I get a little bit off track here, but uh when you walk into that locker room, you walked into that locker room, you felt the impact of it, right? You felt all these staffers and all these managers and all these players and and and all these and underwood himself, and and you they walk out red eyes, and you felt the impact of what this meant to them uh as a family, as a coaching staff, as a team, and it was just really awesome to have seen that firsthand.

SPEAKER_01 15:38

Yeah, I think I know we talked a little bit about this earlier, but pre-game, the Illinois locker room, it was lively. It was focused, it was lively, but at the same time focused, but more excited and also confident at the same time. I mean, the Mario Kart in the locker room, that's a good way to show that this team is literally just a bunch of friends who just want to work together and help each other win. Um, but like you said, Yukon, business, serious, ready, locked in. Um, and and Hurley does that to those guys. Hurley definitely does that to those guys. I mean, you can tell on the sideline um how much how much he cares about about winning the game, no matter what, no matter the stakes. Um and yeah, after the game in the Illinois locker room, um, you know, I think I think it it was really sad to see Underwood break down like that because obviously he doesn't get that emotional normally. Um, you know, but I think it was just a testament to how grateful he is to have experience this year with with these people, but also he doesn't want it to end, you know, like you said, the abrupt he hates the abruptness of an end. Um, and um, you know, he had there was a quote, he said, he said, please come back, let's let's go do this again. And I think um I don't know, I think I think it would be hard for these players to to let down their old man like that.

SPEAKER_00 16:58

Yeah, this is really like a family. Yeah, and we'll get into that as as this podcast kind of continues, but you you would imagine that it'd be really difficult for a lot of these players to have experience that and to say, I mean, you would imagine it'd be hard for them to say, oh wow, wow, yeah, we we got to a final four. I'm just gonna go take a bag somewhere else. It's probably hard to come to terms with that, but before we really dive into that, I'm really glad that the national people and the national media and and then just audiences around NCAA were able to see Underwood that we get to see a lot of the times, which is mostly a tempered uh Brad Underwood. And I was talking to a couple of my former colleagues at CNN, and and they were telling me that you know that that you know it felt like their their kind of picture of what Underwood is is this fiery, firecracking and an angry head coach all the time, but he's really good, which he it is true, he's really good head coach, but like we don't really see him being all that fiery all the time. I mean, he does get that way, but not all the time, and in post game, he rarely ever is that way, and he's rarely ever like a Danny Hurley or you know, people like that. But I I'm I for one was really, really happy that people in the national media had a chance to see him vulnerable and had a chance to see him smile all the time. Man, this guy was from from the moment we got to Indianapolis, it felt like he was smiling the whole time up until game time.

SPEAKER_01 18:40

Yeah, no, I mean, absolutely you said it pretty well. I mean, he he is he was I don't think he could have been any happier um when on that send-off given that speech. I mean, you could see this, you could see the smile just lighting up his soul. Um and but but like what you said about the national media, um, I do think that was a way for national fans of college basketball to really see the true underwood, who he is. And and he told the media, he told him, he said, I don't want to be known for wins and losses, I want to be known for impacting people's lives. And and that's exactly what he does. That's he brings a group of guys together in this program and and and makes them genuinely care for and love each love one another. And um, I mean, if you're a recruit, it's gotta be great to see that guy as your coach because you want you want a leader of men like that as your coach. Um, and not even just Underwood, but the national media that that was highlighting the team as a whole, um, it was just it was so good to see. I mean, I think it's well deserved. I mean, this team really just does have special players. Like you could see everybody on on Instagram and TikTok just just being obsessed with Merkovich and and his silly moments and the cowboy hat. And I think I think it's it's just a testament to how special this team was. And and overall, I think the attention on the program is not only gonna uh positively benefit the program as a whole in the future with with more recruits coming in and and NIL and whatnot, but also um Illinois as a school itself. Um, I think I think we'll probably see an increase in in applicants next year and maybe the year after that if we're even better next year, you know.

SPEAKER_00 20:32

What one of the sells for Josh Whitman is AD back in the day was actually, hey, you know what what I can bring as an AD is that I can make sports better, and sports better equals better brand, which equals better name recognition for the universe, which is something that is, I guess, pretty logical, but every no question about that. So many things have changed since this, you know, football team, basketball team have gotten so much better. But to kind of focus in on one guy, what what do you make of and obviously we talked? He was emotional, and we saw a pretty raw version of him, and he can get pretty raw in these post-game scenarios and be be himself, and it was really good to see that. But Kylan Boswell, as a as a player who came here after playing a couple years in Arizona and became kind of one of the leaders and a symbol for Illinois men's basketball. What do you make of what his legacy will will be? What do you think his legacy even is?

SPEAKER_01 21:38

Yeah, um, you know, after after spending time at Arizona, I think it was it was really such a good choice, and it worked out so well for him to come back home and feel that love again. I think he just needed a fresh start, he needed a reset, and and he impacted this team immediately. And I think him and Underwood had a personal connection. I think Underwood is part of the reason that. That Boswell was as impactful on Illinois as he was. And Boswell was always a leading voice, whether in the locker room or from the sideline when he was injured, um, or on the court. Um, you know, obviously this season offering that veteran leadership to to Wagler, you know, um Keaton Keaton sometimes, I don't, I think Keaton and both Brad attribute um how quick Keaton was able to rise to the scene to the amount of pressure that Boswell would put on him in defense and practice. And and you know, Boswell is just one of those types of guys who's just gonna push his teammates to to be better every day. Um, you know, this this year, I it was it was really good to see him finally get the all Big Ten defensive first team. Um, I think he might have deserved it even more last year specifically, but but you know, to get it in his senior year um in his hometown, um, I think that that probably just meant so much to him to have that show his what his career at Illinois meant. Um and obviously Keaton coming in changed his his season, but the way he accepted that role Chug DeLon shows who he is as a player and a person. And um, you know, his jersey being hung up hung up on alma mater speaks for itself. Um, and specifically speaking to Kyle in pregame and post-game, you know, I talked to him pregame. I asked him um how much the personality test matters when it comes to the success of this team. And he said he said it matters a lot because this program's never gonna have anybody with an ego. Um, and and he said you wouldn't survive at Illinois if that's your personality. And um, and then post-game, you know, he opened up about some of the abuse that he received at Arizona, and um, and I think that kind of just shows how grateful he was to join a group of people that that cared for each other and and lifted each other up, and and he was able to find success in an environment like that.

SPEAKER_00 23:59

Yeah, I I do think first it's worth acknowledging that it under uh that Boswell did not have the best NCAA tournament, right? 7.8 points per game, uh with high level minutes. It's it's true that he maybe did not have the most impact that of all the guys that were on the floor, uh, but where he did have the most impact, I thought, was as that leading voice. And as you mentioned, that that guy who can be kind of that that yeah, like that that clubhouse voice, that locker room voice to really lead this team. And and I'll get into this a little bit. I do think he is he represents the community really, really well, I thought. Um, but um, yeah, with that still being said, I do think Kylan Boswell will be remembered as that hometown hero and one of the most beloved guys because he is from here, and uh, you know, I think people kind of tend to overlook that and him being being here, right? I I don't think we could have taken that for granted because he uh, you know, like like you mentioned, the the personality test of it all, Boswell became pretty selfless uh at this point. I mean, I think you could have gotten, if you were uh maybe a different kind of player, then maybe Kylan Boswell wouldn't have liked the fact that Keaton Waggler came out of nowhere, that David Mirkovich was gonna be as good as he was. And I think the idea coming into this season was that Andre Stoyakovich and Kylan Boswell were gonna lead this offense to new to great heights. Instead, it became the recruiting jobs uh and Keaton Waggler and David Mirkovich being the guys to really, really step up. Uh, and maybe that was by design. I think some of it was by happenstance, but I just I think that it's awesome that he got the chance to lead this team, to be one of the leading voices on a team that Illinois, the Illinois basketball team that hadn't done something that they hadn't done in 21 seasons. To me, that's just a really cool story. You'll feel really good about that because, especially given the fact that what you said, right? The maybe the I don't know if it, I don't know if it was abuse, right, from Arizona, but you know, the fans definitely chirped at him after that Yukon loss because obviously all the all the fans are at at Lucasoyo Stadium, all from all four teams, and he heard stuff and and he he and it certainly sounded like he wasn't happy to hear that kind of stuff. And you know, after an emotional loss like that, you you're obviously going to be vulnerable emotionally and maybe more apt to respond to those kind of things. But I think this is one of the benefits of the transfer portal, where it's a guy who didn't have as much impact as he maybe wanted to at Arizona, got the chance to come back to his hometown, to be a part of a historic run, and to now get a chance to go into the NBA, see what, see what that you know can bring for his life and see if he can make some more uh you know generational money for his family. And I think to me, that's what it's all about, right? To see that unfold. And that's why we we like to talk to these players. And you know, he was always pretty real, and I always appreciate that. The fact that he he was he's always pretty real. And so um to me, just to elaborate a little bit more on the the person that he is, like this is a man of the people that he this is home for him, and he he enjoys it. I mean, I he I was playing soccer at the arc, and this man just pulled up just out of nowhere, casually, and he's talking to everybody at the arc, and he's just being a normal dude. And you know, I feel like that's a little rare to see from a guy who is this star who gets all this money, all this attention. Uh, but ultimately he's just out there playing intramural football, and that that's what it's all about to see a kid go from you know a hometown to try to pursue his basketball dreams, comes back, makes them takes them to the next level, becomes part of that basketball dream, and has all these dreams come to fruition, and now seeing if if we can make that jump to the NBA and how that looks like so that's really just the biggest thing to me is this to see that. But we I I mentioned it a little bit, Keaton Waggler, as a dude who is is uh going most likely going to the NBA, right? I mean, I feel pretty confident in saying that. What did what I mean what what is um what do you think of what what what he could bring or excuse me, what he what his future could look like.

SPEAKER_01 28:37

All right, side. So, you know, I actually I have a I have a really, really good question about Kylan before we move on to Keaton. Um something that we did not bring up. And that is so for the people listening who do not know, Kylan Boswell, after the Big Ten tournament loss to Wisconsin, the collapse um in the quarterfinal, Boswell hosted a team meeting at his apartment to talk to the guys and get everyone level-headed, figure out what was going on and why this kept on happening and how to stop it from happening. He did that, and in doing that, right out of the gates, we saw a completely different second half Illinois team in pretty much every single game after that. Um, so the question I I wanted to ask you was had Kylan not hosted that meeting, what do you think the outlook of the season would look like?

SPEAKER_00 29:30

Dude, this is one of the things that I keep going back to. I tried to dig into that, right? It sounded like a lot of the guys did not want to talk about, you know, like like Zavanimir strictly told me, I asked him about the meeting, I asked him what the dialogue was, and he said, I I I it I don't wanna, I don't, I I want to keep that between us or whatever. And and I respect that obviously. I I do think, and it sounded like Boswell also did not want to comment on that when I asked him about it during uh the media availability for Final Four. But I do think that was somewhat of a turning point in this this kind of postseason Illinois version that you saw, right? Because you did see a team that could get complacent uh offensively and or defensively uh in Chicago at the Big Ten tournament, and then you saw suddenly saw a big switch. Um Yakovich said that it wasn't really, you know, there wasn't nothing that really flipped, like no flip of the switch. It was just kind of a realization of of what they had done that this they can be that team, but that kind of stuff is really important, and that's why you look for a Kylan Boswell to be that kind of leader. That's why uh you would hope that someone was gonna do that. And and it in this year, it just so happened to be Kylan Boswell, a guy who's been here for two years, who knows that how much it would mean to get to a stage like a Final Four, and who knows what it what it is what it's like to lose in the tournament. So I think that that you you you saw a totally different team. And I think I don't know, I don't know if it's everything, right? That meeting was everything, but it would definitely have to do with why Illinois became so successful in the tournament.

SPEAKER_01 31:20

It allowed them to to find that that resilience, to find that motivation, to um to jump out of the gates in the first round of the NCA tournament against Penn, and then same the same thing against VCU. And I think I think from there the momentum kind of carried along. Um they just needed to get the engine started once again, and they did that, and and they turned into the team that they looked like when they had gone on their 12-game win streak earlier in the season.

SPEAKER_00 31:47

Oh, I agree. And and I I just to me, the guy who will hopefully be and we can unpack that in a bit. The guy who will hopefully be that that guy next season, if it, if that ever situation ever comes to fruition again, would be David, because it sounded like David was the secondary voice in bringing that meeting up and having that be a thing where you you guys get together and you talk, talk ball, or just talk about what the season, the finality of of the season could look like, and realize that you are that team, you are that team to be able to get to these heights. So it's that kind of thing, you know.

SPEAKER_01 32:27

But yeah, so go ahead. Um, I was just gonna say it's just that just shows the how much the personal personality test actually does matter because you know, if you're recruiting only guys with this certain winning family togetherness mentality, then you know, when you have a guy like Kylan Boswell and Keaton Waggler leave in the same year, you have you have players on the bench and still in the starting lineup that can that can come in and fill that hole and and and be that leading voice. Um but with that being said, you know, the departure of Keaton Waggler.

SPEAKER_00 33:01

Um, I think he's projected which we don't know if he's departing yet, but yes, right. I mean, I think, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:08

I think if he goes to the draft, I'm pretty sure he's projected sixth or seventh um in this year's draft. Um, and really all I want to say is he kind of gives me since since the Purdue game, he kind of gives me shades of of Tyrese Halliburton. Um, you know, a player who is so impactful to the team um every night, game in, game out. I mean, Tyrese, after he tore his Achilles, the Pacers went from you know a finals contender to to one of the worst teams in the league. Um, and with with both of them, I think they're guys who at first, when you watch them play, you don't think they're the superstar that they are. I mean, obviously they're you probably think they're still an amazing player, but but to impact their teams as much as they do individually, um, it's it's just something that you know you need to have both physically and mentally. And and I think Keaton is lucky to be such a young basketball player with with all that poise. And um he's he's almost stoic, you know. He just he takes it in, he he does what the defense gives him. And you know, I think those are traits that that are gonna help him build on his game once he reaches once once he reaches the National Basketball League. Um and I people forget he's six six foot six, you know. Give him a couple years in the gym and he could turn into a freak.

SPEAKER_00 34:34

Yeah, no, I I agree. I think a lot of the resounding sentiments of what you said, I will probably echo. But the part of me, the the part to me that stood out the most about him, and and this is a theme that Underwood highlighted over the course of the season a lot, but early on, definitely in like December, where it was pretty early still, but um he really always makes apparent quote unquote, he he makes the right basketball decision. And you did see if anything, I thought one of his biggest weaknesses was the fact that he was maybe too unselfish all the time. And that was one of the things that I thought about about whether or not you know this this kid um was NBA ready. I do think he's NBA ready, he's a hundred percent that he is that prospect. And it's to me, it's crazy to think back all the way back in October when he first got to meet this team uh during local media day uh uh and hearing all the messaging about Keaton Waggler and about him being really, really good. And I I remember thinking to myself how ridiculous that sounded to think that a freshman can come in and and and be that guy. A three-star. It was really a three-star, in some places a four-star, but a three-star to be that guy, and he was every bit of it, and it is incredible to have that. And I I and this is something for next time, right? For the next podcast, but you know, the investment that the return on investment that you got from this particular guy is insane, and it's so much of the reason for why Illinois was able to get to this stage that they got, and it's just incredible. I I I think that uh Keaton Wagler should go to the NBA, he will probably. There's there's no like it's worth talking about, but at the same time, it's not worth talking about it because there's no reason he should come back. I can't like I you would sorry, but like you he would have to be like I don't know, like come on, like you he has to go to the NBA. That's it, that's end of the story, right?

SPEAKER_01 36:40

Like, it's not worth talking about it more, but it is the only reason, the only reason I could see him not coming back would be a world where he values one more year with his best friends and you know the best coach he's ever had, probably. Um, but but at the same time, like you said, you know, it's just too much of a risk. His stock right now. I mean, he's clearly ready for the NBA. Why go back and and you know risk risk your your stock? I mean, imagine he got imagine he comes back to Illinois and and doesn't have a as good of a let me ask you a question, Elliot.

SPEAKER_00 37:15

Elliot, would you rather spend a year with your buddies playing basketball, or would you rather eight million dollars?

SPEAKER_01 37:26

Yeah, but but what if he's gonna make that eight million dollars, you know, the year after?

SPEAKER_00 37:31

You know, yeah, yeah, but you you get the point though, right?

SPEAKER_01 37:34

Like I mean, nobody's gonna turn that down.

SPEAKER_00 37:37

I'm not gonna turn down eight million dollars just to play basketball with my friends, and and it at that stage, obviously, I'm being hyperbolic here, but but yeah, like like I the the risk is significant. You you do mention that I think that's the biggest thing is that the risk is significant, and that you'd be putting yourself behind the eight ball, and you could also be putting yourself ahead of everybody else if you jump into the NBA pool and your development just continues to grow. I'm sure right now KJ is going through some development, you know, humps, but that that stuff's gonna pay off over the next couple of years because he got to the NBA as soon as he did, and that's kind of how it works here, and it's it's unfortunate, right? Because that's just kind of the way of the land now, but it it is ultimately how that how that is, right?

SPEAKER_01 38:20

Um, yeah, and you you look at the the month Will Riley's been having in his rookie season. I mean, that's just confirmation to Keaton that okay, yeah, I just need maybe half a year in the NBA and I'll be fully developed, I'll be fully adapted, and I'll be ready to be me again.

SPEAKER_00 38:36

Maybe not fully developed, but I do think that it would be I think I think Keaton Wilder could be one of those guys to be really, I guess not maybe not fully developed, but like like I said, he could be making some huge strides at this point next next year. Oh, right. And and and you and not only that, but I do think like they feel kind of similar, and not not in terms of the maybe the playstyle, but like figure-wise, like they are like similar heights, similar kind of type of player, maybe. And and I feel like that is kind of the future of like in the MBA is that skinny, tall player, yeah, guard, and like that's we've seen exactly point remotely.

SPEAKER_01 39:22

Exactly. The six foot the six-foot point guard has turned into a the six's eight point guard. Yeah, I mean, I mean, yeah, you see Merck bringing up the ball, and that's yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 39:32

Yeah, a hundred percent. And so, and so that to me speaks volumes as to you know the future that Keaton Waggler could have in the NBA as a point forward, as a guard, as a as a player that to develop in the future, and you know, it's worth discussing, but at the same time, is it worth discussing? We'll see, we'll see. I I do I do think there's like a one percent chance he comes back, but really not not much worth more words. Um, I want to do a little quick uh little little flip of the gear or whatever, if I may. Uh, just reflecting more on the the season that this was, uh Elliot. What what was your favorite moment? I I have a feeling we're gonna have like my favorite similar favorite momentslash favorite game that we covered slash watched. But let's start with you, K Elliot Casey. What Mr. Elliot Casey, what what was your favorite moment of the season?

SPEAKER_01 40:23

Okay, so read my mind here, and I'm gonna read yours, and neither of us are gonna say what first came to our mind because it's too basic, and it is too basic, and um obviously who wouldn't pick that, you know? Yeah, I'm gonna just give a little sneak peek into what I felt that night and and what you probably felt. I mean, it was it was a feeling of how is this happening? Like, are you serious? Did he just he just do this again? Like, oh my god, like there's no way. Like, we we I really thought we were gonna lose, and this guy just this little point guard just came out of nowhere and and dropped 46 points, yeah, I think I think almost double-digit threes in one of the hardest venues to play at in college basketball.

SPEAKER_00 41:14

Insane.

SPEAKER_01 41:15

Um insane, yeah. But but my my other favorite moment, um, I I'm gonna say this because I feel like it gets overlooked because of the outcome of the game. But man, those two Jake Davis free throws against Michigan State to send it to overtime, probably some of the clutchest work I have seen all season. I mean, like he was holding all of Champagne on his back, everybody staring at the TV, knowing that he is just as scared as we are, and and he he executed. And man, if we would have gotten a win on that game, those free throws would have been remembered more than they are today.

SPEAKER_00 41:55

Yeah, well, well, hey, I tell you what, if if they would have won that game or what maybe one of those couple games that they blew towards the end of the season, they wouldn't have gotten the draw that they had, right? They did, you know. So maybe things worked out the way that they needed to. Maybe that's exactly maybe Illinois fans should be thankful. You should be thankful. Um, no, you're right, man. Like it we were both there with with uh with Jack from TCR. Um, that night was euphoric. I mean, to to have to be in that moment, to to to watch this kid go off, um, to watch this venue shrink in the way that it did. He Keaton Wagler held that venue in his palm and said, This is the power like this is the power of the sun in the palm of my hands. That's a Spider-Man reference, if anyone, if anyone knows it. But, anyways, like he just took that, took control of that entire game, and he made it it, made it his moment. And kudos to everybody else for also letting him cook uh as well, because that was certainly something that uh that you know people thought about as well. Uh, but experiencing that venue was insane, right? Like Purdue, Mackie Arena is crazy, like it was it's crazy, it's crazy, and that was my first time like experiencing that, but that that place was insane. Like, I could not believe what that would what that was. Like, and I can't imagine being a player, but then also like the fact that Illinois won in the way that they did, insane to just have that 46 points. That that is my favorite memory of this season. I will hold that near and dear to w with in my heart as I will probably cover preps over the next couple of years. I don't know, but um, but no, um I I I as a secondary memory, I mean I will say I I I think that you know people forget about that early win against Texas Tech, uh, where this team was, you know, it was pretty early in the season. But um, you know, Stoyakovic, you know, showing glimpses of what he could be. And that dunk was insane. And he had a couple of those over the course of the season. He had one in Chicago too. I will say those dunks and those moments kind of resound in my mind. Um, Zavanovir in in the NCAA tournament to have what he what he did uh defending the rim and then and then VCU game, insane. Those will be the memories that I will remember about when it comes to this team. And and uh that moves me to the next thing. My favorite player over the course of this season to cover and not only to cover, but also if we take our reporter hats off for a little bit as a fan. Um, for me, that's pretty easy. I don't, I don't, I suspect we won't be on the same page, but it'd be it'd be I'm interested to see if we are. To me, he's become a fan favorite, but David Merkovich is a guy I will buy his jersey when when I am out of here. I will buy his jersey. And you know, as as much as good as Keaton Waggler was this season, and as good of a kid as he is, too. David Merkovich is just a special human being. Um maybe it's something about the accent, it's something about the way he speaks, his sense of humor, uh, his playing style and the funky little jog or the funky little way he runs. He's awesome. And and I will and his appreciation uh towards the fans is also, you know, it he can put himself in your shoes as well as a fan. And I appreciate that. And uh I like like I said, when when I'm out of here, when I'm out of uh this University of Illinois and I become a lowly fan, once I sorry, not lowly fan. I'm just when I'll be a fan once again. I I'm gonna buy that jersey, man.

SPEAKER_01 45:54

Yeah, I mean, you have every right to believe that, and and I, you know, I sit right there with you. Um, Merck is just one of the most treasured players in all of college basketball. You mentioned it. I mean, he's unfiltered, he speaks his mind to the media, like genuinely. Like, I think that's one of the most important reasons why he's been getting this much attention, is because he lets the world see his real self. And and inside that real self is, you know, you got a quarter of him is just goofy, and then a quarter of him is is determined and confident, and then a quarter of him is is insecure and wants to get better, and then another quarter of him is just happy to be part of this family. You know, there's just so many things to like, so many qualities that that kind of he has that you would want in any player on any sports team, frankly. Um, and um, yeah, I mean, he he sits right there with with uh with Z as one of my favorite players. Um, I I just wanted to say Z is probably one of my favorite guys to watch this season, specifically, because every time he comes on the court, it's you're gonna get something. You're gonna get an electric moment. You're gonna get a he's a momentum shifting player. Every block, every dunk. I mean, I I feel like it it makes more of an impact than people think, the amount of momentum that he carries himself for this team, um, with his his rim protection ability and his his dunking ability. Um, and on top of that, I mean, he possesses some of the similarities um of Merkovich, you know, being unfiltered with the media, being himself, and and um at the same time, though, having that inner passion to to want to rub off on his teammates and make them better and uh help this team win.

SPEAKER_00 47:47

I I sense the same thing from from Big Z. Um very raw and real in the way that he answers uh stuff and and what he communicates, right? Like is open to having those fun conversations, maybe not as open to having some real basketball conversations, but but but definitely on that lighter set as well. One last thing on Mirkovich. The to me, one of the things that also stands out about him, uh that I will always remember too is that text message that he sent to Brad Underwood after a tough loss. I can't quite pinpoint what what loss it was, where he did not play well at all. And he sent Underwood this long ass paragraph of a message, and Underwood shared that with us. And I think that's another point for like Mercubich, not that it's a competition, but you know, another reason to point to is for why this is a guy who could potentially uh be back and that cares after that narrative being of that this oh Balkans or European players don't really care. Man, he cares so much. And to me, that's a beautiful thing to have seen grow and to see you know him kind of live that uh in his first season in Champagne. It's pretty pretty remarkable stuff. But speaking of staying or going, um, that locker room vibe check we that we have to do first, excuse me, not be staying or going. We have to do a locker room vibe check, which is you know, obviously we saw that the players be all you know soak in their in the the misery of that loss, but I guess what did you make of of the conversations that we did have with a couple of those players? Did you sense anything um kind of resounding besides the fact that you know a lot of these players were just sad because they weren't ever gonna play with each other again?

SPEAKER_01 49:41

Yeah, um, you know, obviously that was feeling, and that was you could sense that feeling in the locker room immediately. But um, I think the one thing that specifically I asked about um to kind of fill a couple of guys with optimism, um, Z and Merck both um Z, after he said a lot of the guys not gonna be here next year, I said, yeah, but but you're not done. And he goes, I'm not done. So, you know, you got that little you got that those three words out of Z. Um but um, I mean, him and Tommy uh both should want to come back and and you know get everything they can get out of this program with Underwood. I mean, Z, Z didn't even play that many minutes this year. I think I think if he stays another year and cements his role in this underwood squad, he can really develop into an even more dangerous um seven foot two beast. Um and then um with Merck, you know, a reporter asked him if he could be the leader of the team if he comes back next year, and and he didn't hesitate. He just said yeah, and then that was it. And then he kind of went in depth um as to how the student visa and uh the trouble with getting him registered uh impacted his his time in the summer last summer, and and he brought up a good point that you know he's gonna work his a-hole off this summer to you know get to that even more dangerous version of himself that he can be, and Illinois fans all know he can be. Um, but yeah, like you said, I mean when you're talking to a group of guys, all teary-eyed, all red-eyed, you know, it's hard, dude. You gotta level with them. You gotta level with them, you gotta get to their level, and you gotta try to put yourself in their shoes and understand how they're feeling. Um, and that's that's kind of why I was glad to to get some encouraging responses from from Merck and Z as to you know their optimism for next season.

SPEAKER_00 51:48

Yeah, I just sense the level of care from a lot of the guys, especially the guys who were crying, and and you definitely were able to filter out, you know, the guys that that oh man, this really hit them, and the other guys who maybe didn't get all that many minutes who weren't that way. Um, but obviously everybody has its winners and losers in locker rooms when it comes to uh getting minutes and all that. So that's near here nor there. But you you thought you touched on it a little bit, the idea of staying or going, and and there's gonna be a lot of guys who have that decision uh you know upcoming. But let's see, who I guess I I personally think that obviously Mirkovich is I I would I sense that he would come back. I think that he's endeared himself with fans, the fans and unlike Waggler.

SPEAKER_01 52:41

I mean, unlike Waggler, Merck knows he has more to give. I mean, he he was just getting to that point where he was kind of turning into a different level of a player. And um, you know, I think he knows that if he comes back and has even more of a role on this team, you know, he could do levels and and become a first rounder next year. Um, you know, I I don't think it would make sense for him to go to the draft with his with his stock as of right now, number one, when it could be so much better next year, number two, but also the fact that, you know, like I was saying earlier, he he can get another year in this program, in this culture, um, in one that, you know, he hasn't spent much time in yet, but already feels so so bought into.

SPEAKER_00 53:28

Yeah. Yeah, no, no question about it. And it'll just be about the paycheck that that it will end up getting. But I wouldn't, uh I wouldn't say blank check, but I would be willing to give up a lot to to see if we can get if if Illinois could get him back. Um, another guy that's really intriguing is is Dio Yakovic as a guy who came off the bench this year uh mostly, but had an impact in the tournament. I think every bit of that investment that you you invested in him this past season paid off because solely because of that run in March. Uh, you obviously would want him to have that impact throughout the course of this year consistently, but that's one of the guys where, you know, I would think he would want to go back because of the success in March and what he meant ultimately meant to the fan base this season.

SPEAKER_01 54:21

Yeah, you know, I I think there maybe is a world where if he didn't have that success in March, maybe he would maybe he would transfer, maybe he wasn't having a lot of things. Maybe he wouldn't, yeah, maybe he wouldn't be happy with his new role. But you know, that glimpse of March kind of just reminded him what he can be at this program. Um, you know, obviously the only worry is um two things. Number one, I'm pretty sure he was working um in the gym with an MBE trainer the other day. So, you know, you never really know um what somebody's thinking. And then um also he's you know the only member of the Balkan block that's not represented by Nikola Jokic's agent, uh Mysko Rajnatovich. Um and Mysko Rajnatovich representing Petrovic, both of the Ivesics and uh and Mirkovich. Um, you know, obviously you don't know what the future holds for Petrovic, but as for as for the other three, I think those guys are are you know pretty pretty pretty much set in stone for for coming back next year. And I think Stoyakovic is is a hopeful, um, but more of a of a you still don't know. Um and um Jake Davis, you know, being so close with with the Balkan guys, with the international guys, you know, the honorary Balkan, um, you know, if if they're back, you know, there would be no reason for Jake not to come back given the role he played last year, starter minutes, you know, and in a in a culture that he thrives in and um and feels at home at.

SPEAKER_00 55:53

Yeah, no, for sure. And uh I think another factor in the stoyakovic calculus is I do think his dad plays a big role in the influence, right, of uh what he will do basketball-wise. Uh so you know, and he's a pretty private guy, and I don't think he really, you know, doesn't even wear the the colors of Illuminamo on the side, which not to say that you know he would be more willing to have his son leave, but it's you know, it's you know, this kind of these kind of basketball things are something we keep in mind. Exactly. But it definitely I I don't I I think that you know it's pretty up in the air with with Stoyakovic, but I I at least personally feel pretty good about his chances of returning, it'd just be a matter of of the money, right? I think that's something, but but to have that success is I mean that big four success is just crazy. Uh to to to to really say, hey, I don't wanna, I don't wanna it'd be hard to turn that down, I would imagine. Uh, but a guy we haven't talked about is is Tommy, who who I well, I can't imagine being anywhere else, but you just never know, right? Like um, you would imagine that both brothers would want to stick together, but Z being a guy who you know was able to sacrifice some stuff for his for the betterment of of you know the brotherhood and the brothers that they were. I don't know, man. I I feel like um I could I could see him returning, but you just really don't know. And also money-wise, it's it's really difficult to to see that kind of all fit in in the same budget.

SPEAKER_01 57:29

Yeah, you know, I think one thing about those two returning is it would it really would be best if if both of them are are starters on the squad because both of them have too much talent to be coming off the bench for a Big Ten team like this. I mean, I I think of next year's roster possibilities, and you know, if you get black if you get John Blackwell, or even if you don't, you know, either at the point you either got John Blackwell or Quentin Coleman. Um, and then either you can put Quentin at the shooting guard or you could put Andre at the shooting guard and then Merck at the small board, and then Z and Tommy um at the four and the five interchangeably. Um, you know, it wasn't something that Underwood tried a lot this year. Um, and it's something that maybe as an Alana fan I would like to see him experiment with more just to see, you know, what that can do for the team when Tommy is shooting well and and Z is just you know being a menace in the paint. Um, but it's hard because you know both of their second halves of the season were were poor from three-point range. And you know, the original reason why Underwood grabbed these guys was because their positional size and their ability to shoot the ball. Um, so yeah, you never know. But um, you know, I I really couldn't see Tommy leading. I think I think both of them are gonna stay. I mean, you you really just don't see them splitting up after after crossing paths, and it's not reporting, it's just our speculation, right?

SPEAKER_00 59:05

Ty Rogers is a guy that I think this will be the last guy that we really talk about. Ty Rogers is a guy that that uh I just I can't imagine just because two seasons like the last season he redshirted this season, surprise, return, and then got injured, and and just it's unfortunate the situation, but you would also have to imagine the calculus is more about you know what kind of basketball player you're getting at this point again, and so that that's that's what makes it tough. And I I don't I don't know. I feel like he's really this is one of those really toss-up guys, but could also be a really big glue guy, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:41

I mean, you really don't know what you're gonna get because on that Elite Eight team, you know, he was such a major factor, but but having not played in a real game for so long, I mean, yeah, you know, how much of that really has impacted his game? And um, I with Ty, you know, what I think is either either he will register if it if he thinks he his game is is back to where it should be, you know, sure he could get another medical red shirt and and you know play play a pretty big role on this team, but but if he isn't as confident in in his ability at at that point in time, I I could see a world where he just turns into an assistant coach or or a manager of some sort.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:25

Yeah, I mean that that that'd be that is fun speculation. I do think he's a guy who underwood says that you know will eventually go into coaching, probably um as one of those being the guy who played a big part in when it comes to the glue guy and uh and you know basically another coach on this staff. Um, but I think either way, Illinois is in good hands. Uh, and that final four push really pushed Illinois to not only be on the national brand, like be a national like team to watch all year, but also just that they they're really good year in and year out, and there's no reason to believe Illinois cannot continue that going forward. So Illinois is in a good place, Elliot. I I completely agree.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:11

And uh, you know, I I I know the future holds a lot for for uh Underwood, you know, given what he's already done in his in his years at Illinois. And um, you know, with with the the the retention that looks like it's coming back, you know, we could be in for another historical season here.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:29

Well, we'll we'll see about that. Hopefully you are right for the sake of everybody listening and just for the sake of of Illinois, because it it is it could really be it is a really good time to be around this program and to be a fan. And so yeah, um though uh thank you everyone for listening, for tuning into this episode of The Pod. As always, I really, really appreciate it. Subscribe review, if you so please. Elliot Casey, thank you so much for joining me. It was sure a lot of fun, and I'm sure I'll have you on before the end of whatever this venture is. Um, I don't know if this podcast will continue or end, but um, yeah, uh subscriber review if you so please, if you so please, yeah. All right, peace. See you all. Thanks for having me, Sarah.