Kingdom Over Culture Podcast
Kingdom Over Culture is the bold, unfiltered podcast for believers who are ready to live set apart in a culture that keeps trying to blend us in.
Hosted by Ashley Potter—worship leader, creative, and voice for the remnant—this show is a raw and honest look at what it means to walk out Kingdom living in real life. From surrender and spiritual discipline to cultural pressure and identity, Ashley and her guests unpack what it means to choose obedience over ease and righteousness over relevance.
Whether you're just beginning your faith journey or you’ve been running with Jesus for years, this podcast will challenge, equip, and remind you that you were never called to fit in—you were called to stand out.
Kingdom Over Culture Podcast
Suffering in the Kingdom vs the Culture
We often talk about being "in the world but not of it," but what does that actually look like in our daily lives? In this soul-stirring conversation, Ashley Potter welcomes her mother Shana back to continue their exploration of what it truly means to choose Kingdom over culture in regards to suffering.
Starting with Romans 12:1-2, they unpack the radical idea that true worship isn't just what happens during a Sunday service—it's offering your everyday, ordinary life as a living sacrifice to God. "Don't become so well-adjusted to your culture that you fit in without even thinking," they quote from The Message translation, highlighting how easily believers can unconsciously adopt worldly values and mindsets.
The mother-daughter duo tackles the often-neglected topic of sanctification—the ongoing process of becoming more like Christ after salvation. While many contemporary teachings focus heavily on grace and blessing, they boldly address the necessary work of putting off the old self and putting on the new. "There is work for us to do in Christ," Ashley emphasizes. "Jesus did a work. Now it's time for us to work."
What makes this episode particularly powerful is the raw vulnerability shared between them. Shana opens up about her journey with kidney failure and how that suffering deepened her relationship with God in ways that comfort never could. "If He always took the pain away, I wouldn't have cried out to Him as much as I did," she reflects. Meanwhile, Ashley transparently discusses her recent struggle with God's direction to close her business, admitting her initial resistance but eventual surrender.
Their conversation flows into practical discussions about modern idols—from social media and entertainment to careers—and how easily these good things can replace our devotion to God. They challenge listeners to examine their daily choices, priorities, and even small interactions with strangers as opportunities to reflect Kingdom values rather than cultural norms.
Whether you're new to faith or have been walking with Christ for decades, this conversation will inspire you to reassess what truly guides your life decisions. Are you living according to the kingdom of this world or the Kingdom of God? Take a step toward intentional, Kingdom-focused living by diving into this thought-provoking episode today.
What's up everybody. Welcome to Kingdom Over Culture podcast. My name is Ashley Potter and I'm your host. I'm so excited that you chose to tune in with us today. I have my mom with me again. I'm so glad to have you, mom, last week's episode. Yes, we had such a good talk and I just felt like we weren't finished and I really wanted you Are we ever finished?
Ashley:We're never finished because it continues to go on every single day, every morning, and, yeah, I really want you to get to sharing some more of your testimony. So we'll get into that later on in the podcast, but before we get started in that, I wanted to just kind of do a small little recap of what we talked about last week. What was one of your favorite things that we discussed in last week's episode?
Shana:I think the one of the things that I like best is how there are two worlds. Right, we talked about loving the world, not loving the world, making sure that we are focusing on those things that God wants us to love. I gave that example of God being our father and being a part of his family. We're born into a new family, so now we have to learn a new way of living, a new learning God. What does he like, what doesn't he not like? How do we move? And so, yeah, I wanted to continue a little bit of talking about that and talking about the two kingdoms that are here, that there's a kingdom of God and there's a kingdom of heaven, but I know that you wanted to go into Romans 12.
Ashley:So let's do that. Okay, let's go into it. Hold on, let me flip on over and let me pull it up, because last week I was like there's a message version of something. And we read 1 John, but what I was thinking of was actually Romans 12.
Shana:And even in the book that I'm writing.
Ashley:That is the resounding scripture that I speak about honestly in every single chapter and, if you can, can you read it in your version of the Bible and I'll go ahead and pull it up in the message Whoa.
Shana:Oh, it's OK, Just dropped my phone. Go ahead and pull it up in the message Uh-oh, uh-oh, it's okay, just dropped my phone, it's okay. I am reading, and I'm sorry because I have two versions I do the Christian Standard version and then I do ESV. I don't know which version this is that I brought today. It's NIV. I don't know which version this is that I brought today. It's NIV, and NIV version says in Romans 12,. Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God. This is your true and proper worship. Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is his good, pleasing and perfect will.
Ashley:What I love about the NIV version is this is your true worship. You know I'm a worship leader, we're worship leaders. You raised me, you know, as a worship leader and so my exposure to worship and I think a lot of people's thought of worship is what we do in churches, when we lift up our hands, when we're singing and we talk about this all the time, that that is just our response, right, that's our response to the knowledge of him, that's our response to living a surrendered life, um, but this is the true worship yeah, yeah, surrendering your entire self yes to him.
Shana:I'm not just singing a song. The song comes out of your love and your adoration for him, but the life living, that's the worship.
Ashley:Pause, because we didn't talk about that last week. As generational worship leaders. That's so interesting because you know and I don't want to cause any fuss or any rift or anything but one of the things that I see so often in the worship arena is oh, you got to have the most. You know, you got to sound this way, you got to run this way and, ooh, they gave me goosebumps. But when I tell you, ma, I have been in some concerts that sound amazing, that have amazing singers, and the Holy Spirit says within me I'm not in this.
Shana:Yeah, yeah. So you think about it. Sometimes we put emphasis on skill, but God puts emphasis on the heart.
Ashley:Yeah.
Shana:So that's to see that again, that's the difference between kingdom and culture. There's two worlds, right? Um, so we say, because someone has this skill, um, oh, they did a great job, but to whom?
Ashley:Right, right, right, Because somebody can give you goosebumps but they can't break the yokes over your life. It's the anointing that does that.
Shana:Right, right, and so that means that God's hand this world system towards what satisfies us what makes us feel good, what makes us feel comfortable. But in the kingdom of God it's what is pleasing to God.
Shana:It's what's pleasing to our Father, it's what draws us closer to Him, because this world is going to pass away and remember all the things that we value here is not what God values. There's two different value systems. So when we come into Christ, we are supposed to seek those things that are valuable to God. And so if you are so stuck in the culture or stuck in this world, you're not looking at what is pleasing to God. You're focusing on what is normal to the culture, what everybody like. What's everybody doing? Oh, I like this. Turn up, you know. And just because someone can do acrobats with their voice, does it mean that they're actually ministering? Anybody can sing. It don't mean that they're ministering.
Ashley:Whitney Houston, give me goosebumps, right People, and I think that honestly in the church. This is why scriptures like this, like are you able to test and discern the will of God, the presence of God, and those things, don't mean that God is in the midst. Right.
Shana:Right, absolutely yeah. And if we don't know what God likes, we don't know how to discern Right. So the scripture says to study, to show yourself approved under God, a workman need about not to be ashamed. And so a lot of times, because things are presented to us, we think that is good, right, right. But we find out very, very quickly whether or not it was good for us, because did it leave something lasting that we can? That is nourishment for us. Like, where are we going to be nourished from and we talked about that last week when are we getting our nourishment from? Some of these things are just, maybe it's a snack, maybe it's a snack. It might be a snack, you know, but it's really not. It's not the vegetables.
Shana:It's not the lean grass-fed meat, it's not that. And if you are just that's all you're getting, then you're going to stay hungry, you're going to stay malnourished, you're not going to last long.
Shana:Your walk with Christ is not going to last long. You're going to fall every time something happens because you're only looking to get these little small meals, these little processed meals that taste good but it's not nourishing. You know, something might sound good, but did it nourish me? Did it speak to my heart? Did it draw me closer to God, or was it just, oh, it was something me? Did it speak to my heart? Did it draw me closer to God, or was it just, oh, it was something I attend and it was lit. No, I really can't. I can't remember what they're saying, but it felt good in the moment, but it felt good.
Shana:It felt good and then there's nothing that convict me. There's no testimony. Yeah, there's nothing that's convict me. It didn't make me fall to my knees and draw men to ourselves, yeah, Because that's a whole other conversation. Because that's leaders as a whole. I don't even think that is worship leaders, and I think that's one of the things that you have to be careful, because pride and ego can come into that very quickly. Most definitely, yeah.
Ashley:One of the things that you said reminded me of because I really was about to. You was about to take me straight to Colossians. We was just about to skip right over Romans, but you said something and I want to bring it back to Romans 12 in the message version, which says so here's what I want you to do, god helping you, which I love because it's telling you yeah, jesus already did what he did at the cross, but now there's something for you to do. So this is what I want you to do, but God's going to help you do it. You don't have to do it by yourself.
Ashley:Take your everyday, ordinary life. You're sleeping, you're eating, you're going to work, you're walking around life. That means you go to the grocery store, you're being a mom, being a husband, whatever it is your everyday life, not just your church life, not just you know and place it before God as an offering. Embracing what God does for you is the best thing you can do for him. And then this is the part that, yeah, it's so good. Don't become so well adjusted to your culture that you fit in without even thinking. Instead, fix your attention on God.
Ashley:I just want to pause real quick because when I read this, it's so easy to become so well adjusted when you're not fixed, to become so well adjusted when you're not fixed, when your eyes aren't fixed on him, when your eyes aren't fixed on Christ and on the things of God, when you don't know, like you said, the will of God. What is he like, what is he not like? What breaks the heart of God? What does he? What makes him smile, what brings him joy? In our lives it's easy to go along with what the world says is good. We talk about that a lot, of what we call good and what God calls good, and how honestly he is good, right. So our definition of good should derive from who he is Right. It's skewed, isn't it? Yeah?
Shana:Mm-hmm.
Ashley:But let me keep reading. It's skewed, isn't it? Yeah, mm-hmm, but let me keep reading. And then it says you'll be changed from the inside out, readily recognize what he wants from you and quickly respond to it. Unlike the culture around you always dragging you down to its level of immaturity, god brings out the best of you. He develops a well-formed maturity in you.
Shana:I like the part where it's your average daily life right, your average daily life, because we want to invite God into the big moments or the moments when we think that definitely, god should be a part, but it's your daily life.
Shana:So, when you even think about where it talks about keeping your mind or keeping your attention focused on those things that are above, how many times do we leave the house and we don't even consider what God wanted us to do today, like we didn't even seek him to figure out what is it that he wants me to do? And so we go about our day, all day, and we didn't invite the Holy Spirit in to move. And so, because we are not keenly aware, when he even tries to talk to us, we're not listening, because we already have our day planned out for what we want to do, and so it is supposed to be a surrendered life. So if you are surrendering your life, that should start from the time you wake up.
Ashley:That's honestly because we value our will more than we value God's. I think that a lot of times, even believers, we don't seek the Lord because we really don't want to hear him.
Shana:If the truth be told, we already have our plans planned out and we know that God can be a disruptor of our day.
Ashley:Most definitely he can be a disruptor of our day.
Shana:Most definitely, he can be a disruptor to our day, and so that's true that sometimes we don't want to hear from him. But think about it. Think about the eternal weight of glory, the eternal reward that you're missing out on when you don't want him to direct your day. And so often I think about that because the scripture tells us that we are in the world, but we're not of the world, but we act like we of it, and God is trying to get us to operate. He's always trying to get his children to operate in his way of doing things and not our own, and he know that it is good for us. But we see it as a distraction, we see it as a disruption, we see it as yeah it's time consuming.
Ashley:We see it as, yeah, it's time consuming. It's honestly more sacrifice than we are willing to give a lot of times. This past Sunday, we had Pastor Brandon Davis from Orlando at our church and I mean, obviously we've been talking about the service since. It was a great service, but the Lord really dealt with me in that service. Um, the Lord always deals with me in services and it's like the preacher would be preaching and the Holy Spirit's just like speaking to me, like you need to get it together. Yeah, and what the Lord dealt with me on this Sunday was I spent so many months this year from the time the Lord told me to close my business, to do the podcast, to finish my book. I spent so many months wrestling and almost angry with the Lord, even though I told him I wanted to do what he wanted me to do. And then, when he gave me the instruction.
Ashley:I was like, why that? Like, this is how I make money, this is how, like, I've been doing this for 15 years. Why that? And the Lord showed me this Sunday that I was so upset with the instructions that I lost my awe for the hearing, the fact that my father even cares enough to speak to lead me, to guide me, and I'm so worried about are you really going to do what you said you did? The fact that I know what you want me to do is enough for me to know that you are who you said you are. And I mean that thing just really really tore me up this Sunday and I had to repent and reposition my mindset. You get to hear from God, you get to commune with the creator of the universe, and so if he tells you to wear your least favorite color, would you not do it Just because it's not your preference, just because it's not what feels comfortable in the moment? Which kind of brings me to Can I interject right?
Ashley:there, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Shana:Because if God always gave us exactly what we wanted, where's the proof that we love him for him? Come on, mama, where's the proof that we love him for him, so he gives us stuff that we wouldn't prefer? Yeah, I've been there many times when I would rather be doing this, because it's comfortable for me or because I want to be hidden, and God called you to do something else. Will you obey? That's the whole thing of obedience, right? It's not hard to obey. If it's something you want to do, right, right. But if it's something that you don't necessarily want to do, that's difficult for you. That's where you're going to have to trust God continually, for, yeah, that shows that I love him and even though I don't understand God, I trust you.
Ashley:I was thinking about this scripture this morning, colossians 1 and 10. So as to walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing to him, bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God. And I feel and you can quote, you can let me know if I'm wrong we're not taught to please God.
Shana:I don't know that. I wasn't taught. You taught me. I'm not saying I wasn't taught.
Ashley:You taught me. I'm not saying I wasn't taught, because I think my parents get a good job of trying to as a whole when, I listen to the word that is or not everybody. I'm not talking about everybody, but I don't hear that. A lot Like the sacrificing of self.
Shana:That's culture, right? Yeah, a week we supposed to live our best life, do you boo?
Ashley:don't let nobody disturb your peace right, right, you know that's protecting my peace. Yeah, don't get me started.
Shana:Yes, that's, that's culture, that's the kingdom of this world. But the kingdom of God says I must submit my will unto him. It tells me I have to crucify my flesh that feels so. If we think about crucifixion, it's a horrible death, but we don't use those as evangelical tools. Right, right, right To say, okay, you can come to Jesus, this is where God loves you. But when you come, you're going to have to crucify your flesh Right right.
Ashley:It's like we pull them in with. Oh, god's going to give you your best life and he's going to bless you.
Shana:Which is true. He is going to do that, but it's not going to be what you think, because he's going to change Romans 12, 1,.
Ashley:He's going to renew your mind. So the best life that you thought was best, six months from now, if you are fully committed in Christ, you're going to realize what you thought was best was beneath.
Shana:So the scripture says so let your light shine. We have to be willing to let God shine, change our life. And so in that change, this is all new to us. The whole way we're supposed to act, the submission, this is new. We've been doing our own thing most of our lives and so it's all new. So when the scripture tells us to crucify your flesh, that's new. I'm used to just going by the way I feel. Now you're telling me I have to resist this thing that I feel to do and not do it because it's not pleasing to God. But yes, you have to do it. You have to do it. You submit your will unto God, you submit your ways unto God because you want him to direct your path.
Shana:You're no longer living for yourself, you're living as unto God there is a difference because, as Christians, we believe that this world, this is going to pass away and Jesus is coming soon, yeah, and so I want to be where he is when he comes.
Ashley:Yes, ma'am, you all up in the scripture you already know where we're going.
Shana:So, yeah, so, yeah, so I submit myself to him. So, because I love him, I obey him, so I crucify my flesh, because I love him, I want him to be glorified in my life. I want my light to shine. I want, when people see me, they see Christ. So, yes, I submit myself, I have to become as him, so I allow the Holy Spirit to have his way in me. No, shani, you can't say that. No, shani, you can't do that. No, shani, you can't go there. I want to go, you can't go there.
Ashley:Right, right, right. I think you're speaking. You know, I talked to you the other day about how, just this week, I've just over and over, just been talking about people, or talking with people, having conversations, reading the word, and it's all been about living a fully submitted life. And when I think about the word submit, I go to like when you submit a paper, you've done the work, you've done all that you can, and now you have to submit it to someone else, your hands are no longer on it, it's no longer you can no longer make any changes, it's all in the hands of someone else.
Ashley:And I've been thinking about the fact that I have been living a submitted life and over these past few months, honestly, I've been really battling with it. I've been in my mind going back and forth like man, god, like why I got to be fully submitted. These people get to do whatever the heck they want to do. But I'm over here, like you know, because I love you and because I know you. I know too much to say, oh, I'm going to go my own way, or oh, I'm going to do my own thing. And so I know, at the end of the day, I want to please you, but it feels like sometimes that me pleasing you comes at such a higher cost.
Shana:So a lot of times people believe okay, so I accepted Christ, and so the work is done, right. But then there's a process that's called sanctification, where God works within us to become more like him. Right Brings us to the image of Christ, and so that is the lifelong process that we have to go through. That is what you're feeling. It's this process of sanctification that God is doing within you, and so sometimes it feels like death because it is, it is. It feels like death because it is, it is.
Shana:You know, that's even the process of you know, suffering Like we look at the world looks at suffering like you know, it's the end of the world For a believer. We look at suffering as it's a tool that God uses to bring me closer to him, for me to become more like him. I went through my deal with kidney failure. Was that through that process, my release, my grip on the world and the things that I thought was valuable it released I got to a level of freedom that I never thought that I could experience. Like, certain things just don't bother me anymore because I know that it's not important, God not going to value it, that it's not important, God not going to value it.
Shana:It's not going to go with me into heaven. Someone's opinion of me okay, I'd rather have God's opinion. I'd rather him to know that I'm doing what I need to do to please him rather than me being a people pleaser. Right, right, even just talking this Sunday with Brandon, I passed Brandon's message I was sharing with some of the ladies on Saturday that I used to be an overthinker. Yes, you did, but God has freed me from that. Like I don't. Okay, you know, I'm going to enjoy my day, like I'm still playing vacations for me and my husband, but at the end of the day, when I'm done, I'm done, I'm not going to think about that anymore. And so God has really freed me from those things. And he uses sanctification to do it.
Ashley:Mommy, you're so spot on, because when I tell you, even through this wrestle, and every time the Lord calls me to shift, it is a shedding, it's a dying and you're 100% right, right. It's not only a death to something that I poured myself into for 15 years. It's a death to what I perceived as this is the direction I'm going in.
Shana:And.
Ashley:God is like no, I'm taking you down this path. And so now the trajectory of what I thought success would look like for me is being shifted and I feel like I am in the wilderness by myself and I'm just like I'm Abraham and the Lord's, like I'm taking you from a land that you know and I'm taking you to somewhere that you do not know and I'm not going to tell you where I'm taking you, but just follow me.
Ashley:But while I'm in this land, I fasted more than I've ever had. The Lord has revealed some things, some hard things to me, that are within me. I've recognized some things that within me that, if you would have asked me in November, do you struggle with this? I?
Shana:would have said no.
Ashley:But I just didn't have the opportunity to because my life circumstances did not allow me to suffer with that or to even struggle with those things. But now I found myself not now praise the Lord Thank you, lord, for just speaking to me and revealing to me and helping me through that. But a few months ago I found myself struggling, wrestling with my faith, like is this even like, do I want to do this? I can really just go get me a good job, I can make me some good money. I my, you know 401k, all of those things. I'm like I can do these things, but do I really want, like you said, do I really want, to live my life and say I stored up all of these things for myself and I go to heaven?
Shana:empty handed? Yeah, because that's what that's culture too. Right, we want all these things here and we spend so much time Getting stuff. We spend so much and I get emotional about it because it's not going to last. Emotional about it because it's not going to last. Yeah, but what do we do with the things that God gave us that's valuable to him? Yeah, the time, especially spent away from your family, what could have been time spent, um, valuable time spent with children, training them up, uh. Time spent with loved ones, uh, I think even about the times when, uh, we're so busy working and working, and working, and we didn't even see where our children grow up, people missing important milestones in their kids' lives because they after the bag, they after storing up Time away from church, like it used to be a time when people didn't want jobs on Sundays.
Ashley:Yeah.
Shana:It was important for them to be in fellowship with other believers on Sunday morning. Now it's cultural to work on Sundays. Yeah, if you ain't working you doing your own.
Ashley:It's cultural to work on Sundays. Yeah, if you ain't working, you doing your own.
Shana:It's cultural to miss Sundays, miss services. Yeah, it's cultural to not serve at all.
Ashley:Like even from a lot of the churches that I follow and the type of content that they produce. A lot of it is surrounding why are people not serving in your church? Why are people not coming to your services? But I think that it speaks more to our love for God and our love for people. Like we talked about last week, it's like everything dwindles down to love God, love people.
Shana:I think, out of your love for God, you love people. Yeah, because I'm not necessarily on my own a people's person. If I tell you the truth, it is the absolute work of the Holy Spirit within me.
Ashley:I know. I know you all my life, from the day I was born, you've been my mama. I am my daddy's child.
Shana:I have had moments when the Holy Spirit would say be her friend, because I am not a people person. There's moments in my walk where the Holy Spirit has said allow her to be your friend, I am in this relationship, allow that person to be. I am not necessarily a people's person. I have to allow the Holy Spirit to work within me and I'm not ashamed of that Because guess what? That was my sinful nature.
Shana:That comes from hurt and pain that God is healing. That's from things that God is restoring. So I'm not necessarily ashamed of it, but I'm saying that I need the help of the Holy Spirit to help me. And so that's even what sanctification does. Like we feel like we okay, like we feel like we're patient, we feel like we're good. But then the spirit of God will come within us and he'll challenge us in a way that we haven't been challenged before and he says do this and you like, and you find out. You know what, I'm not so patient, right, like I don't really trust you to the degree that I thought that I trust you. Like I'm not as submitted to you that I thought I was submitted and do you think that that is because what?
Ashley:what I'm picturing is because you're not new to the faith? No, and so you are decades into your walk with Christ and you're still evolving.
Shana:Yeah, you're still growing, you're still showing me things, you're still.
Ashley:And so what I'm hearing is you're going from glory to glory, but from glory to glory, there's also different things that you're having, different challenges, different things that the Lord is showing you. Hey, this is what we're working on in this season. Right, this is what I'm going to reveal to you about you in this season. What I love about that is God is so kind that he's not like now that you're saved, I'm just going to change you completely. He gives us grace and he walks with us every step of the way.
Ashley:I'm sure that as soon as you got saved, there were some other things that you had to work on and. I feel like the more that we work with God honestly, the work gets deeper and deeper, because when we first get saved, it's like okay, we know. Oh, we got to stop doing the big sins the stuff that people can see. But we don't look at the kind of stuff in Colossians the anger, the malice, the strife, those things that are on the inside, that nobody really can see unless we show them, but God knows it's there.
Ashley:Like when I went on that fast a few weeks ago. I mean I was fasting and praying and I was just like God, give me revelation, and how do I get out of this thing? And the Lord you know, the only thing I took from that fast is that the Lord told me you eat too much, you eat too much. Stop going out to eat so much.
Shana:Cook you something, make a salad, I love that. Do something else. Drink some water. Everyday things right, yes.
Ashley:Everyday, it's the everyday things, right, and not to feel like, oh, I'm good because I don't do these one, two, three, four big sins. And we feel like, oh, you know, I'm good with God, but you a glutton. Oh God, that was me. Hey, that was me. And right now, now I'm trying to make those conscious choices and honestly, it's Romans 12, submitting your body, and I've submitted my soul, but it's this, this flesh because, maybe when it want brownies and ice cream and with a little caramel drizzle on top, and you know, the little pecans that I get from the grocery store.
Shana:Just drop on the top you know I like them.
Ashley:I say yes to my flesh every time when I want to go to eat tank right. I say yes to my flesh right every time. And the Lord showed me you have no self control. Yeah, I'm working out my fruit in you so that you can bear more fruit.
Shana:Yeah, and we think that it's not problematic because it's just food, right, but what are the areas that you will not? You know you won't deny your flesh in Right, right, you know when God says for you to do something. And so, yeah, we think that it's a small thing, but even the small things, god has been showing me that, those small things, when we tolerate them, that they can turn into bigger things. We see it as small. God sees that this is a problem. This is going to be a problem for her.
Ashley:And making those small changes is a mind transformation. So when you make a small change here, you're making a complete mind shift. I think I had this thought a few weeks ago when I was trying to become more disciplined with our walking and with cooking more and eating better, that discipline brings more discipline. The lack of self-control breeds more lack of self-control, and so I think it's all in. God wants to continue to transform our minds because, at the end of the day, he doesn't want anything to be our God.
Shana:Nothing but him. Yeah, we make idols so quickly. Yep, we make idols so quickly, and I think that because we live in this country, in the United States, we don't see them as idols, because it's not a golden calf, we're not worshiping it in our minds.
Ashley:We're not lifting up our hands what we think is worship. But it's also because of our skewed mindset to what worship is. Worship is a lifestyle. It's not a song. It's not a lifting up of hands.
Shana:So, it's?
Ashley:what are you surrendering your life to the most? What is it?
Shana:Yeah, is it your job? Come on, mama, come on, mama. Do you ever cut off? You know, I hear entrepreneurs talk about it all the time and they say you know, this 24-7. Wow, Like, why Would you want to spend 24-7? God never created us to do anything that's 24-7.
Ashley:Yeah but worship him.
Shana:But worship him Like is it a job, or is it an idol, or is social media? You know, when I got hip to TikTok I found myself.
Ashley:I was like two hours sweet pie. Listen, I'm calling Mama. What you doing?
Shana:I'm on TikTok. I said, oh my God, when did that time go by? You know it's so quickly. Is it social media? What is it Like? What is your favorite thing on YouTube to watch? Like streaming I'm just now learning about streaming and how they on there for hours and hours and I'm like people are watching y'all for hours and hours. Like how, where did they, where did they get the time to be watching you for that long? Like that's amazing to me. Like those are idols.
Ashley:Yeah the Lord been dealing with me about social media and I know, um, probably about after this week, because we got the big event coming up so I gotta be posting for that. But even so, like this morning I woke up and I was like, oh, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do that, and I just scrolling I done posted eight things. I'm scroll. I'm like, how did I get here? Yeah, get me behind me, say. And I literally threw my phone behind me so that I could complete what I needed to do and it just it happened so easily and so quickly that you don't even recognize Romans 12, you don't even recognize that this thing is calling you.
Ashley:This thing has got your attention and now the 20 minutes that you meant to be studying, or to be preparing, or to be praying, or to be doing whatever it is that you're supposed to be doing you've wasted.
Shana:And you know we were talking this morning about AI and it's just like that. Right, those things should be tools for us, but we make them idols, right? We put them in the—we replace God with those tools that he's given us, just like he might give us a house. Now, all of a sudden, we don't invite anybody to our house because I got to keep my house clean, or, you know, it becomes an idol. We take the tools and the things that God has made for us to enjoy and we put them before him Like anything that God has given us. He's created it for us to enjoy and we put them before him Like anything that God has given us. He's created it for us to enjoy. He's created it as a tool, but it's not supposed to replace him. Yeah.
Ashley:And we do that so quickly. We do it quickly. It's like we do it so quickly. It's not just the children of Israel out in the wilderness asking Aaron to make that golden calf. We make golden calves every day.
Shana:Right.
Ashley:Every single day Right.
Shana:And so that's why our submission has to be daily.
Ashley:It has to be daily.
Shana:That's why we have to renew our minds daily. That's why we have to spend time with him daily, or else we'll take the things that God has given us and make something else out of them.
Ashley:Yeah.
Shana:And normally we make gods out of them.
Ashley:We make gods out of them.
Ashley:I want to look at Colossians 3, because we've been all up and through Colossians 3 just in this conversation and this morning when we were talking, I wasn't even planning on coming to Colossians 3. I literally I'm not superstitious, I don't be opening my Bible and just be like, boom, this is scripture. But that's kind of how it happened. This morning I saw I had something a little highlighted. I said what's this? And it was the exact word that we need it for today. Colossians 3, honestly, 1 through 17. 1 through 17 is it's going to tear you up and I actually taught on Colossians 3, 17. In our worship rehearsal we have like a little small group portion before we rehearse on Thursdays, and I taught on this for a couple of weeks. It's so good, because we are coming out of this whole grace, grace, grace, grace, grace, grace, grace mindset in the church that we have discounted the work of sanctification and one of the things that Colossians 3 talks about is putting on the things of Christ, putting on righteousness, and it doesn't say that God's going to do it. It don't say that the Holy Spirit is going to do it. It doesn't say that the blood of Jesus is going to do it. It don't say that the Holy Spirit is going to do it. It doesn't say that the blood of Jesus is going to do it. It says you do it.
Ashley:There is work for us. There is work for us to do in Christ. Jesus did a work. Now it's time for us to work. We don't have to work for salvation, but once we are saved, there's work to do, there's work to do. But once we are saved, there's work to do. There's work to do, and I think that that's such a misconstrued thought in the body, especially when I see some of the types of Christian creators that are becoming popular. They're all about Jesus. They're all about the blood of Jesus. They're all about salvation. They're all about blessing, but they're not about sanctification. They're not about putting on righteousness. They're not about the blood of Jesus. They're all about salvation. They're all about blessing, but they're not about sanctification. They're not about putting on righteousness. They're not about what is holy and what is right and being set apart. None of those things are in it, and people cling to those things because we don't want to take off ourselves.
Shana:Yeah, ourselves, yeah.
Ashley:I think, though, that it's the mindset of well, all I have to do is be safe to go to heaven, but then I would question whether you truly surrendered and believe yeah.
Shana:Yeah, Because it's not.
Ashley:this is all a part of it. It's all a part. It's a one-package deal.
Shana:Yeah, it's all a part of it, because I remember, even thinking with my immature mind as a kid well, if all I have to do is believe and receive, then why do I have to do all this stuff? Right like why and I think that's what a lot of people, a lot of people do think and they do believe, and when we look at that word, if we believe, but did you believe?
Shana:right? Did you really did you believe Right? Did you really did you really believe Um? And then, if you really believed and you really made him Lord, then you wouldn't have any problem with the rest, right? And so I think that we always come back to that question of, well, what did? Did you really receive, you know? Did you really believe God? Um, and this is the proof. Right? They say the proof is in the pudding, this is, this is the pudding. And so this is where you're going to be proved. What did, what did you believe when? When you said that you did Um?
Ashley:so yeah, let's go let's go into that Colossians. Yeah, I want to. I want to talk about Colossians because there there's such this weight on blessings and being blessed and living a blessed life and all of these different things. But blessings does not equate to stuff. No it, it, it doesn't, and I feel like, because you can have stuff without having Christ, so it don't.
Shana:It does not. That's not the blessing.
Ashley:That's not the blessing. Honestly, I'm not going to go into that. Colossians yeah, you want to read. You want me to?
Shana:read what you want to do mama Go ahead when are you at? Three one, oh, three one. Okay, since then you have been raised with Christ. Set your hearts on things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God. Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things, for you died and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. Pause.
Ashley:Yeah, you died. So you're saying to tie this with what you just said. Mm-hmm oh, I'm just saved. Why do I have to do all this stuff?
Shana:You were supposed to die. You were supposed to die. You were supposed to die.
Ashley:And when I think about a baby, when I think about being reborn, you are literally taught like I have a four-year-old. You have to teach them every single thing. You got to teach them how to blow their nose, how to wipe their butts. You got to teach them every single thing. You got to teach them how to blow their nose, how to wipe their butts. You got to teach them how to do everything. And so now, we should.
Shana:You don't have to teach them how to be bad. You don't have to teach them how to be bad. You don't Listen here.
Ashley:But now, that is the way that we should approach Christ, we should approach the kingdom of God. I know nothing.
Shana:Teach me everything you got to teach me. You have to show me and I have to be willing to spend time with you so you could do that Like you think about a baby even even you know they give you maternity leave, not again they given the husbands they got, they got leave too. And so that is that time of bonding, that time of nurturing, that time of spending time with that baby and we talked about it last week and I think a lot of times that's what's missing in a lot of people's relationship with God.
Shana:There was no one there to nurture them and they didn't know how to even go to God and spend that time with him, right, right, and know that that's important, because a lot of times people don't get instructions.
Ashley:You know, we got instructions on how to bring people into the body. We got instructions, we got a full setup of how church should go, but for some reason, as a body we miss somewhere between that salvation and what happens next. We miss the babies. We miss the babies.
Shana:Yeah, so they just wandering by themselves and so, yeah, that's heartbreaking for me. Yeah, because sometimes they don't need what we need, right? Because we've been in the faith a little bit longer, so we're a little bit more mature, but they need milk.
Ashley:Yeah, yeah, they need that, and I feel like I don't know if it's because our mindsets are set on moving forward or those that need milk, but there should be some sort of nursery.
Shana:Yeah, because we don't even wait for the baby to ask us for milk, right? No, they tell you to feed them every so many hours. It's like they don't. No, they tell you to feed them every so many hours. It's like they don't know. They don't know they might cry, but let them cry. Like do we even understand what their cries mean? Like, do we even understand? Because now we're looking at people who are adult in age, but in the faith they're babies. So when they're crying, we don't even understand what their tears mean, because we don't know. Like they need milk. Yeah, they need milk. They need their diapers changed. They done messed up.
Ashley:They done make a mess, they done messed up, and now we done. Condemned them, babies, the baby's not coming back, right, they ain't coming back, right, they ain't coming back because these people don't care about me.
Shana:Oh God, they don't care about me.
Ashley:I'm going to make that a matter of prayer because, yeah, that just struck something in me and, honestly, that is where kingdom over culture comes from, that is where righteous girl in a ratchet world comes from, because I see the hunger and the desire, yeah, but there's no direction. Right, right, I want to get to Colossians and I want to get to your testimony, so let you stopped at, I stopped you.
Ashley:I stopped you at verse verse four, you go ahead. When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory. Put to death, therefore, what is earthly in you. This is the process for the babies sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desires and covetousness, which is idolatry. That's what it is. On account of these, the wrath of God is coming, and then it talks to the new. Come on word. You better speak to us today In these. You too once walked, you were living in them, but now you must put them all away, them all away. See what we just talked about. See how the word just be tying stuff together, the outward and then the inward. Now this is where the people who've been walking with Jesus for a little while it say put them all away, not just the first little few things that you think. Oh, I'm clean. Anger, wrath, malice, slander and obscene talk from your mouth. You mean you can't cuss.
Shana:Okay.
Ashley:All right. I don't think it's not even just cussing, because you can say obscene things without cussing and I think that a lot of church people have mastered obscene language without having.
Shana:I'm not going to ask you for an example. I ain't going to give you no examples.
Ashley:And then it say because it tells you what obscene language might be, right after that Do not lie to one another.
Shana:That's the truth. Ooh, remember when I said something about lying a few months ago that how you know I was praying about it and the Holy Spirit was saying it's so easy for Christians to lie Like. We just lie. We be how you doing. I'm doing good Lie. We just lie Like.
Ashley:Without anybody even encouraging us to lie Like you, not even in a position where you need to lie, because it's not culturally acceptable to tell the truth, because as soon as I tell you what's going on and we over-spiritualize everything.
Shana:Well, you shouldn't confess that they not confess they telling you what's going on with them. They're telling you, like it's okay, job friends, like you know Literally what's happening Job friends. What is happening here, like where the prayer warriors, where the intercessors, where the encouragers, like, call them forth because it's giving Job friends.
Ashley:Do not lie to one another. Seeing that you have put off the old self with its practices we talked about practicing last week practicing sin or practicing righteousness and have put on the new self. Yeah, seeing that you have put off the old self with its practices and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge after the image of its creator. You cannot be renewed in the knowledge of the image of your creator if you don't have knowledge of what the image of your creator looks like.
Shana:Go back to 101, christianity 101. You got to spend time with God, you got to spend time in his word.
Ashley:You got to get to know him. I want to skip down to verse 12, because here comes okay, we hear all these things. This is what we shouldn't do. These are the things that we have to take off. Verse 12 starts speaking to do this instead. These are the things. This is the reflection. This is the image of God that we should take on. Can you read that for me, Ma Verse 12. Image of God that we should take on.
Shana:Can you read that for me, mom, verse 12. Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Keep going, bear with each other and forgive one another. If any of you has a grievance against someone, forgive as the Lord forgave you, and over all these virtues, put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity.
Ashley:There goes that word again. Yeah, yeah.
Shana:So this is talking about what we are supposed to exemplify, how we are supposed to live, what we're supposed to be putting on right Compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Like, why y'all popping off at everything? Like, why are you kind to everybody else but your wife? Like, why are you gentle with those people, babies, but you yank your child? Like why are you gentle with those people, babies, but you yank your child? Like what is happening? Like, who are we Like? Who do we belong to? And God's saying this is who I am to my children. There's a scripture, and I think it's in amos, that talks about um, that god tells, tells the children of israel that you are the only family that I know. Yeah, and that thing bugged me and I'm like he's like, out of all the families of the earth, you're the only family I know it's like and nobody else. He's not concerned, not necessarily not concerned. He wants them to come to him, but his family, like y'all supposed to be different.
Ashley:Yeah.
Shana:I've poured myself into you. Like you supposed to be different. It's like a parent going to a school because their child hecking up. Like you know, you spent time with that kid. Like you know you raising them up the right way, but they acting up and he's like you know. This is not how we act. You are such and such, you are this, and here you are acting like you don't have no home training. God said this is who I am, this is how I want you to behave. Why y'all here acting like you don't have no home training? God said this is who I am, this is how I want you to behave. Why y'all here acting like your father, the devil? Why you acting like the enemy? Why you acting like it? No, this is how we supposed to be acting, right right, we supposed to be compassionate. We acting like the culture.
Ashley:Because compassion yeah.
Shana:The culture don't know. Compassion, you know it's so funny.
Ashley:I've been doing this thing lately that has been shocking people. It's so funny how the things of God shocks the world.
Ashley:Yeah, when you're kind to people that you don't know when you're compassionate, when you show humility, meekness, patience, all of those things, and it's so shocking to them, but it shouldn't be shocking to the church, you know. But I've been doing this thing where I've been holding doors for people Like you know, like when somebody kind of too far away, like you're at a gas station, you open the door and you see somebody like kind of still about it, like they too, far for you to really be holding the door.
Shana:I'm holding the door. Let you sell kind of still about it.
Ashley:Like they too far for you to really be holding the door. I'm holding the door. Let you sell you got it or I'll still hold the door. Or if I get to the door first. If it's a man or a woman, I'll open the door. Wow, she said no, I'm not stopping, baby, I'm sorry.
Ashley:I'll open the door for them before they open it for me. Not because, you know, I don't want men to be a gentleman or anything like that. I'm subscribed to the scripture. I'm being kind, I'm being compassionate and that's just like my little thing that I've been doing like over the last few weeks. And the other day, me and this guy it was an older white gentleman that was on the other side of the door and we were both approaching the door from opposite sides and I grabbed the door before him and I opened it and he said to me, wow, no one's ever done that for me before. And I was like, yeah, I'm a gentle woman, and he cracked up laughing.
Ashley:But just to hear him say that um, I mean people that would not even have a conversation, would not even have any type of anything. But not only did I leave him feeling like, wow, somebody did something, kind, of me.
Shana:I left him with a smile on his face because you know I'm goofy like that.
Ashley:Um, but that just really. After he said that, I was like you know what, I'm gonna keep doing this, because how many other people don't get a nice thing done to them? Just that day. It doesn't take much for me to just wait two seconds, or to grab the door first and be like you have a good day or God bless you Just to share something with someone that they wouldn't get outside of.
Ashley:A believer being in the midst and the Lord's just been really showing me just little ways to be the hands and feet of Jesus. It don't have to be that big old, you know. Oh, we're doing this, we're putting on this event Romans 12, your everyday life.
Shana:Your contact with people Going to the grocery store.
Ashley:Yeah.
Shana:Going to the gas station. Like, what are you saying? There's so many times people try to strike up a conversation with you and do you have time? Are you on to your next thing? Because you already have your day already mapped out and what you're going to do. Did you take that time to just even have a light conversation with that person? God has definitely been stretching me in that way, maybe not holding doors, but definitely if somebody says something and it opens the door for a conversation, I'll have that conversation with them. And, which is very interesting, because Mariah, like a couple of times, was with me and she was like where am I? You're talking to me. I'm like, yes, I'm talking to them because God is, because what if, in that moment, that was just the moment they needed to draw them closer to God. I didn't want to miss that. Like I said, I know the times Right.
Ashley:Yeah.
Shana:The Bible talks about us numbering our days. I know the numbers of my days, and so I don't want to spend time doing something that is frivolous.
Ashley:Right right.
Shana:I want to do things that are meaningful that are impactful, Making those deposits yeah making those deposits, making sure I'm showing the fruits of the Spirit, making sure that I'm being compassionate, I'm being gentle, I'm being kind.
Shana:I know you talked about wanting to go into my testimony, but for so much, so many people, god has been drawing me to that. I've had chronic kidney disease and I've dealt with kidney failure, and so, especially when I meet those people, I always want to encourage them. I always want to leave them with something from God, because I know what God has done within my heart and within my life during that process. And, like I said last week, I know if it wasn't for that, I wouldn't have been to the place that God has me now, where I do have just a tender spot for people who are on dialysis, who are going through that process, because it can feel very lonely for people who are on dialysis who are going through that process, because it can feel very lonely, it can feel like nobody really understands, and I want them to know that God sees them and God knows them and God loves them.
Ashley:And yeah, to ask you, how did a scripture like Romans 12, presenting your body as a living sacrifice, how did that show up in your testimony, in your process? Let me say that because I was there, yeah.
Shana:I think Romans 12 has always been a part of my life when I gave my life back to the Lord in 1991, right before I had you. It's always been a part of my life, though hearing a diagnosis is that you know there's no cure. It didn't change my posture. Yeah, it made me ask God a lot of questions. I can't deny that the process was definitely very painful physically, you know, and I think that sometimes we have this misconception of suffering, that some kind of how God going to take all the pain away, no, that's, that's that's when we go, go back with him. But in reality you feel it and it's painful and it's hard, and God doesn't always take that from you, but his promise is that he'll be there with you through it and in your mind you'd be like well, I need you to take the pain. But if he always took the pain away, then I wouldn't have cried out to him as much as I did. If he always took the pain away, I would not have asked my husband to read the word as much as I did during that process. Read it, because I couldn't read it. My arms were so painful I couldn't hold my Bible or hold a phone sometimes. So he had to read the scriptures to me, and so, had I not gone through it, I would not have.
Shana:I would have known God as healer. I wouldn't have known him as he was true to being with me, even in the valley. I wouldn't have. I could have said it because we do.
Shana:Yeah, but I know it, emmanuel, I know it to be true, yeah, and so, because now I know it in a way that I didn't know it before, I feel free. I feel free because I know for a fact that not only depend on him for my provisions for the day, but for everything, for my entire being, like I know what it is for the breath of God to be in me, because if I had not had that, I would have been dead. So when I sing, it's your breath in my lungs. So I pour out my praise Come on, ma, because my outward body failed me, but his breath didn't. So, yeah, it's a part of who I am. Romans 12 and 1,. That taught me everything. If you just get that concept in your daily life, in your daily living, I'm not one of those who say, well, I don't some things I don't need God for. I need him for everything. I need him for everything.
Ashley:That's it. This morning, in our conversation on the phone, I wrote down something we no longer need to offer blood sacrifices, but every breath, yeah, every breath. So we're going to close and I want you to pray us out. I want you to pray for someone that is maybe in that space of suffering right now and is struggling with standing firm, but I also want you to pray for the person who's struggling with offering their full selves, okay.
Shana:Father, god, in the name of Jesus, lord, you are our creator, you are our God. Father, you know everything about us, you know where we are, you know what we're doing, you know what's in our hearts, you know what's in our minds. And, father, I thank you for the process of sanctification. Yes, god, I thank you for how you continue to draw us nearer to you, how you continue to transform us. I lift up my brothers and sisters that are in the process of suffering right now. I pray their strength, father, for you are our strength and our weaknesses, father God, I pray that they surrender that to you, father, in the mighty name of Jesus, knowing that, dear God, you care and that you said that in your word that we don't have to be strong like you'll be our strength. So I pray that they surrender that to you, father God, and not be ashamed of the suffering, father. Not be ashamed of what you're doing in their lives, god, because there is greater on the other side of it. Father, jesus thought it not robbery, because he saw the end. Help us to focus on the end. Remind them of who they are. Remind them of what you have in store. Remind them, father God, of what you've done in the past. Help us to not forget, and that you are the same God. I pray that you would provide them comfort in the name of Jesus, comfort in knowing you and knowing who you are. Help them to live in a way that pleases you. Help their posture to not change. Help it to remain. Father God, that they remain strong in their faith and that they would let the process come to completion. Father God, that they would not give up, father God, but they would stay the course. Father, in the name of Jesus, because, father God, there is something greater at the end.
Shana:Father, I pray for those who are now just having a problem with surrendering their everyday life to you. Father God, it's unpopular, your kingdom is unpopular right now. Father God, the dying to itself, to denying ourselves, to not giving in to our flesh, father God, it goes against culture, it goes against the ways of this world. But help us to stay steadfast, unmovable, always abiding in you, father, knowing that what we're doing is not in vain, knowing that what we're doing is not in vain, that there is glory after this, that there is an eternal reward. Father God, help that you would be enough for us. Lord. Yes, god, help us to know that you are enough, that you are our reward. Help us to be satisfied with you. Help us to stay focused and live lives, dear God, that are acceptable unto you, father God, that our will and our ways line up with you, that we live a life that we confess to know.
Shana:Lord, let's help us to not just be readers and hearers, father God, but be doers of your word, doers of your will.
Shana:Stir us up once again, tear down those idols that we've made gods in the name of Jesus, where we spend most of our time, father God, our valuable time here, dear God, on things, dear God, that are not of you and that's not pleasing to you, father God. But help us to find value in the things that you find value in. Help us to serve you as Jesus served others, with compassion, with gentleness, with kindness. Help us to, dear God, love others, dear God, like you have loved us. We thank you for the work that you're doing within us. Thank you for the process of sanctification, the falling away of those things and the world, father God, that's unnecessary, that making us into the image of your son. We thank you for it, father God. We love you, we seek to do your will, and we thank you, dear God, and we lean and we depend on trusting you that you're faithful to complete the work that you've started In Jesus' name we pray.
Ashley:Amen.
Shana:Amen Amen.
Ashley:Amen, amen. Thanks, mom. You're welcome baby. Thank you. Amen, amen Thanks, mom. You're welcome baby. Thank you.
Shana:I don't know why we're whispering.
Ashley:That's it.
