Bill Swan: The Players You'll Never Forget

The Coachable Players sits down with Bill Swan, a retired high school basketball coach from Hempfield Area High School in Westmoreland County who coached for 36 years. Bill talks about the players he'll never forget.

Bill has coached a lot of basketball and has coached a lot of players. When asked about the players he'll never forget, Bill thought of a few right away, three players who were the third/youngest brothers from different families who demonstrated exceptional coachability and teamwork. He emphasized how these players were selfless, hardworking and easy to coach, often taking the brunt of coaching criticism while maintaining strong relationships with their teammates. Bill shared stories of player development, including how he helped transform a timid point guard through peer leadership, and discussed the importance of teamwork, academics and good character over individual statistics. He noted that despite changes in coaching approaches over his career, the core principles of hard work, sportsmanship and building strong player-coach relationships remained essential for success.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:05

Hello, and welcome to the Coachable Players Podcast. This podcast is built on the belief that the most successful athletes, employees, and business leaders share a train. They are coachable. Okay, it's exciting times here for the Coachable Players Podcast here. Just some quick little updates here. I've the past couple months I've been creating the coachable self-assessment test. And it's out in pilot phase right now. There's a handful of high school students in the Harrisburg area that are filling it out, and that's exciting. So stay tuned on that. There's more coming on that. And then I'm gonna be releasing an eight-part series here. This is exciting stuff here, people. Eight-part series on why being coachable helps you in sports, business, and life. So stay tuned. All good stuff. But now I'm super excited, super pumped about this. I I told my wife the past week. I'm like, I get to interview a guy who's been coaching a long time. He's retired now. So we're gonna we're gonna talk to a guy here who's been in the trenches for decades. You know, we talk about being coachable and what's that mean, what's it look like? How do you how do you help someone become coachable or make them be more coachable? And this is a person who was in the trenches, like I said, for decades. And he's also my cousin, so that's extra cool. So very cool here. Bill Swan. He was previously the head basketball coach for Hempfield Area High School. That's the Hempfield on the western part of the state in Westmoreland County. Bill, welcome to the show, brother. What's going on?

SPEAKER_00 1:54

Uh nothing, man. Thanks for having me. I've been looking forward to this for a couple weeks. Really excited to be on here. I think it's so neat that you're doing this.

SPEAKER_01 2:03

Yeah, it's fun. Helping young minds, let people know the benefits of being coachable here. And and you you brought a topic that I love. This is gonna be so cool to talk about this. About a coach, he's gonna talk about the players you'll never forget and why. But before we jump into that, you want to take a minute or two, a few minutes here to introduce yourself. Uh, who is Bill Swan? The man, the myth, the legend. Who is who is Bill?

SPEAKER_00 2:33

Legend. But I uh I grew up uh just about a half hour away in Connorsville, Pennsylvania, played basketball there, went to Westminster College. And uh at the time we went to Westminster, it was actually a full scholarship. It was NAI and they gave scholarships, and a lot of guys were just really good. Gave me my freshman year. I played as the point guard, played for a legend, uh Ron Ron, got coach Ron Gabreth. And then I decided my sophomore year to just kind of wrap up my playing career. But I loved basketball so much that I took a walk up the street and uh went to Wilmington High School, which was the school in our town at college, and uh I asked, hey, do you need any help with basketball? So I was a 20-year-old kid uh that was gonna be a junior in college, and the guy said, Sure, I'd love to have you. So it's a really unique and uh crazy start to my career. I actually got to coach JV basketball while I was a junior and a senior in college. Uh so it was it was it was uh great experience. Wilmington High School was coming off a WPL championship, I think, in 1987. They had great athletes, great kids, great football program. They st they still do. They still have great sports at Wilmington. It's so we're a little small school where we went to college. And uh my first job then was at Central Cambria in Evansburg. I got to coach some freshmen, some girls, basketball, some baseball. I just coached anything they asked me to, and then I got to coach at Portage High School for one year. Then I went back to my hometown of Connorsville and got to be the head coach, and then uh an opportunity opened up for our family to move over to Hempfield in 2001. And then I had a little intermission. I had a crazy career. I had a little intermission where we went to Greensburg Central Catholic. Uh, my sons and I, we got to play in the WPL Championship, and we actually get to play in the state championship in 2011. I was there. Yeah, Metep Charter at uh Brace Jordan Center, which was you know a life memory, and uh then was back at Hemfield and decided uh last year after 36 years it was just time to 38 years in basketball and 36 years in teaching. Just time to retire and uh relax a little bit. And and I still substitute teaching and uh I still run a basketball camp every summer. Uh so I just got that uh the flower sent out for camp. So I'm I'm still around the game and uh I love it so much. I don't I I just can't imagine not having basketball part of my life.

SPEAKER_01 4:59

Awesome. And that's why you're on here, brother. This is awesome. Good stuff here. So, like I said, the topic is the players you'll never forget and why. So, so as you were giving thought to this episode and this this podcast topic, um, just just real quick, when you think of your coaching career, did did players start popping up and you started thinking of players and and what sort of things stood out?

SPEAKER_00 5:29

Well, I mean in a funny way, I'm I'm lucky. I I started coaching in 19. I I still in 1987, and every now and then a kid from Wilmington will pop up on my phone. Uh I taught up at Central Cambria in Ebensburg. I still get text messages from kids from Central Cambria. Uh there's a group of Conozal boys that I still talk to all the time, and now I'm I'm actually substitute teaching some of their sons. Um being here at Hemphill for 25 years, uh our our network of alumni and our closeness uh is is unmatched. I mean, I've had so many coaches say they would love to have the relationship with their players that I have. Like every year, 40 of our former players come to my house the night before Thanksgiving for a big party. 35, 40 kids come to my house every summer for the uh NBA draft. And these are some of these guys, you know, they've been gone for 21, 22, 23 years. You know, they're they're married and working and have kids, and uh there's there's probably honestly there's probably no, there's maybe one or two kids that I've coached at Hemfield that I still don't talk to at least once every couple months. So it's hard for me to say you know, there are favorites, but I I I think in talking with you, there are there are there are qualities about certain kids that uh that that came to came to my mind. And uh what's funny is the the kids that came to my mind, this is actually crazy, but I've always I've always talked about this. The kids that came to my mind, there are there are probably three to six of them that I focused on. And if you can believe it, all of these boys they're brothers from three different families, and they're all three boy families. So I always said I love to coach the third brother, and and then and I'm sitting here talking to you, and that's what you were, you know. I'm the third brother, yeah. Yeah, there's something about a third brother, they got their butt beat every day growing up. They were never allowed to win, they were never handed anything. Their parents really didn't spoil them too bad because they didn't really have time to even worry about them too much, you know. I like I've always I've always been lucky. I've had some sets of brothers and uh and these third brothers are just they're just great to coach. They're just they're so easy to coach. Uh they're so uh they ask for nothing. They don't they don't expect to be given anything, they just and they my youngest son is one of the boys, Logan, he's our youngest son, he's almost 30 years old now. He always my wife always said he better have turned out okay because he got to sit and watch his brothers make all the mistakes, you know? Yeah. I think that's a big part of coachable kids, you know. They they watch their brothers, they they watch their parents go through, you know, their their brothers being coached. And uh they learn the right way to do things and they they just don't want to disappoint, they want to, they want to please, and they wanna they want to play as hard as they can for their team and their friends and their coaches and their families.

SPEAKER_01 8:41

Agree, agree, being the youngest of three. Um, and I I said this when when my brother passed away. I said this, it was he he pushed me so hard, and I wanted to prove that I was equal to him. You know, I was the youngest and and he was strong as an ox, so I wasn't equal strength-wise, but I always wanted to show I was equal, even though I wasn't, you know. I just wanted to compete harder and he always pushed me harder. And yeah, I could, I could, when you were saying that, that's what I started thinking about is yeah, my brothers used to beat the crap out of me, and I loved it. You know, I learned so much from it.

SPEAKER_00 9:15

Yeah, but when you're the older brother, there's nobody there to do that for you. You know, you're the you're the king of the house, and there's nobody in there, and that's in today's society, I I think we need more of that. You know, we're we're struggling with employees, we're struggling with you know, with with teammates, we're struggling with students. We're they it doesn't hurt to have a little nudge, a little push. And when you're when you grow up that little brother, you're certainly you're from the day you're in diapers, you're getting pushed around.

SPEAKER_01 9:46

Yeah, definitely. So you kind of touched on it a little a little bit, but let's let's maybe dive in a little a little bit here when it comes to those those three that you said. Yep. Um what kind of made them different, you know, when when when you look at them and other players that you coached?

SPEAKER_00 10:09

Well, I think I think the three younger brothers, I'll start with the three younger brothers. Um they're they're they're very selfless. Um you know, they none of those three little brothers cared about how many points they scored. Um you know, I'll jump ahead. One one is uh is a head principal at Mount Lebanon High School in Pittsburgh, which is one of the premier uh school districts in Pennsylvania, and he's already a principal there. Um my son Logan is a mortgage broker, runs a couple side businesses, hustles all the time. And the third one just got hired at Hempfield on Monday night to be a physics and a math teacher. I mean, they're just they're selfless people. Uh they're not, they're not, they're not in our they weren't in our program to ask for something for themselves or and and uh and all honestly, in a funny way, they were easy targets for me to yell at. You know, they're always they're always the guys who kind of took the brunt of everything because because because they could, because they could take it. Yeah, there was never any hard. I mean, I'm sure sometimes they were upset with me, but I think what stands out to them is they're used to adversity, they're used to not being handed everything. Uh and like I said, even about their parents. Their parents of all three of these kids. I mean, I never ever ever did anything wrong to these boys, but I don't think their parents would have cared. By the way, they they were the third brother and they they got the scraps, whatever was left, and uh they just wanted their kids to be coached and they appreciated their kids being coached, and uh and then and like I said too, they got to watch now. I'll flip over to their older brothers. All three of these guys had brothers who played for me, and they were and they're and they're three of my favorites too. You know, one of them started as a freshman, one of them was the quarterback, which you can relate to. He's a quarterback on the football team and a star basketball player, and the other one uh is is my son Jake, who went up with us to Greensburg Central, who was easily probably the best teammate of of any kid I've ever coached. I mean, if you'd ever asked the alumni who played for me, they would all say Jake Swan's the best kid they ever met. You know, it's it's uh so these little brothers got to watch these guys do that. And I think that helps so much too. You know, it's just such such a such a model for them to to be a great teammate, to be a great leader. And uh they're they were you know they just had no trouble fitting in the program and no trouble fitting in the team, and and you need that today. It's it's it's it's hard to coach a bunch of eyes. You don't want a bunch of eyes.

SPEAKER_01 12:53

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 12:54

You know, you you you want a bunch of we's and little these these guys, they they just exemplified that every day.

SPEAKER_01 13:02

Yeah. Here's a comment that was made to me last football season, which was one of the reasons why I got into this creating this podcast. A local football coach is a couple years younger than me, you know, and I said, Hey, how's the season going? And he's like, OB, this is not like when you and I played. He's like back then we would run through a brick wall for our teammates, for our coaches, for our team, whatever, it's team first. Now it's how many likes on my TikTok, you know, how do I look? How's my uniform look? I gotta get good pictures for my video I'm posting.

SPEAKER_00 13:39

Huddle highlights, you know? Yeah, yeah, the huddle highlights, exactly. Most of these kids have huddle highlights up before they go to bed on a Friday night in football. They might and they might have lost 50 to nothing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:51

We had a game, Northern had a game last year. This wide op caught a touchdown pass and spiked the ball and started dancing. And okay, you see that in the NFL, whatever, but then you look at the scoreboard and it was like 50 to 7, and they're losing 50 to 7, and that's like that sums it up.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

But he was uh he was the show for that 10 10 seconds.

SPEAKER_01 14:16

Uh yeah. But okay, let's let's get back on track here now. So you got those three or six that you were thinking about. Maybe this question is about them or someone else, but but it was there anything that surprised you over time when you when you started when you started coaching those coachable players from the way that they changed, either internally or either when you coached them or afterwards, whatever, any sort of changes that you saw or anything that surprised you with them?

SPEAKER_00 14:45

And no, I don't I I don't think. I mean, one of the boys just came with his crew and landscaped our yard this summer, last this past summer. He just called me the other day and said, Coach, whatever you need, I'll just come do it by myself and you're not paying me anything. Uh but the other one who's my son just said, cancel your pressure washer. Dad, you're not pressure washing your deck this year. I'm coming up, I'm taking care of everything for you. The other one, uh, a guy that we coached with here at Henfield, Coach Kalp, who's in the WPL Hall of Fame, is uh softball coach. He's probably the greatest softball coach in the history of our state. He just passed away sadly last week. Oh and the other boy, he called me to talk about him. And I mean, they're they're they're their loyalty just never ends. I mean, I you know, they anytime I go through anything personally or anything that happens to my family, that the they're the first guys to call. Like uh, I got I woke up this morning from a text message from one of them. Uh we we just had a real sad time lately. One of our former players' dads just passed away at only like 66, 67. And and of course, one of his little brothers is the one who texted me today to tell me when the viewing was gonna be and tell me, you know, it just Yeah, nice fan. I wouldn't say anything surprises me. I I just I'm not surprised at all what they've become and uh because of you know, like I said, how they I think a big part of it is you know, I coached high school basketball. I didn't get to get with these kids till they were 16 years old. It's the parents are a big part. Oh yeah. You know, we've we've we've had our share the other way too, you know, where I I do everything I can for a kid and and uh sacrifice part of my life for these kids and some of the parents just don't appreciate it, and some of the parents don't just aren't happy and and and then they can make things miserable. So yeah. A big shout out to these guys goes to their parents and they have they have competitive moms, you know, they have they have moms who don't baby their boys and uh just like you did, you know, and and uh that goes a long way into uh making my job a lot easier. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 16:54

So so you got a lot of a lot of years coaching, a lot of games, a lot of players. And this one might be hard to answer on the spot here, but but do you have any any any stories of a player that fully bought into coaching and how it impacted the team? You know, any sort of any sort of stories that uh impacted you.

SPEAKER_00 17:18

Yeah, yeah, I do, I do. Uh this group of kids, uh it's actually one of the group of kids that one of these boys came that he played with. We were having trouble with our point guard one year. He was just real backward, real timid, uh nervous. We went down into the locker room and I just said, I'll just call him Timmy. You know, I said, Hey Timmy, you know, this team's not gonna go anywhere if you don't start playing. This team's not gonna go anywhere if you don't develop some confidence. And one of these boys that I'm talking about, he just jumped right in. He said, Let me take over for this coach, you know. And he was best friends with this kid since kindergarten. He said, You're a baby, you know, you're a sissy. You're not you're not running the team the way you should. You're not you're not playing the way you should, you're not listening the way you should. Listen to coach, buy into what's going on here, and let's go. And I think one or two nights later, I think he went out and had a career high at like 16 or 18 and played. We still laugh about it today, played the best game he ever played in his career. So awesome. It's always nice to have that support. And I mean, I I you want the kids to listen to you, but sometimes they get tired of your voice, you know, and yeah. Sometimes the voice needs to come from inside the locker room and uh from from uh you know, like like my son Logan, whenever he came back from football his senior year to be on the basketball team. We have every kid on our team vote for captain, and we had like 21, 22 kids, and all 22 kids voted him a captain. I mean, it's just those are the things you're those are the things you're proud of. And and uh the other two boys, Joel and uh and Don that I'm talking about. I mean they were unanimous captains and they were just so revered and so loved by their teammates that I mean like I said, I'm sure sometimes they did get mad, you know, and I'm sure they they got frustrated with me and frustrated sometimes with with some things, but the example I'd give is you know, it was always team first. And and that just made my job so much easier to keep our uh to keep our groups connected and to keep them keep them tight and uh committed to the to the common goal was when inside that locker room I'm not being questioned, I'm not, I'm not being doubted, I'm not being cussed about, I'm not being you know made fun of. Um which I'm sure all these things happen. Everybody says something about their coach, but the core, the core stays strong and the core stays together cause of these kids.

SPEAKER_01 19:44

Yeah. Do you do you recall or do you do you know if you had any players that kind of struggled with with being coached and didn't like the team atmosphere and then they somehow switched and became Yeah, I mean you get those letters, you get those letters as they get older, you know, now that I'm so I'm so stinking old, you know.

SPEAKER_00 20:10

Yeah. You get those letters and those kids get older and they say, you know, hey, I didn't really want to hear it at the time, but thanks. You know, now that I'm now that I'm raising kids, now that I have a job, now that I'm married, I know what you were trying to do for me, you know, and that's that's truly why that's truly why we do it, you know.

SPEAKER_02 20:30

Right.

SPEAKER_00 20:31

You know, like uh we have a we have a picture frame hanging back the hallway from our Greensburg Central Catholic team, and one of the kids wrote, I just want to say thanks for you staying on me, even though, even though most of the time I didn't want to hear it. I know that you have my best interests at heart. And sometimes in the hallway when I'm having a bad day, I just stop. It's it's right in a hallway right outside our bedroom. I just stop and read that, what Danny said. And Danny's not a teacher, and Danny's not a coach, and I don't think there's any you know, when when when your kids become coach, when your old players become coaches, I just had I just had a former player from my gosh, let's count now, 28, 29 years ago. Oh wow. He's a state policeman. He just called and said, I just ran some of your plays with my team in the in the sixth grade state championship at Penn State. Awesome. I just wanted to say thanks, you know. I wanted to say you need a new playbook, you know. But that's the ultimate, that's the ultimate flattery when they when they coach and then they and they call you or they text you and they say thanks, or they just call and just give you just give you a report of how things went. That's nothing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:44

Do you have any stories like that from when they played though? Like they became coachable, you kind of seen a switch overnight or switch, you know.

SPEAKER_00 21:54

Um yeah, we just had we just had a situation at Hemphill with some with some things going on and You know, I just found out later that one of the boys who I'll just be honest, he came from a family that didn't believe in me and and and and uh the boys told me how he was crying in the locker room, just so upset about some things that were said about me and he just he wanted everybody to know that he didn't agree with his father and and he he backed me and he felt bad and uh these guys just these guys just graduated and they they uh they gave me the ultimate gift. They just gave me a gift. Uh they sent my wife and I to the Duke game at Pitt.

SPEAKER_02 22:35

Oh cool.

SPEAKER_00 22:35

Got us a hotel room, got us dinner, got us got us an Uber, and uh and this this kid that I'm talking about, he was the first one to uh Venmo's money in, you know, with the with a little with a little note. They holded it behind my back. And so I mean that's that's pretty awesome. You know, you don't you know you don't you don't you don't coach for the parents. No. You really don't. I mean, you don't want the parents all against you, and you know, and you know, you don't want to mistreat their kids. They're handing you their kids, and you you want to treat them with respect, so you want to have a a relationship. You have to I think in today's world you have to have a relationship with the parents somewhat. You can't you can't be these old school coaches, so I speak to no one, you know. Yeah, yeah. I'm not talking to anybody. Don't you dare speak to me. Uh those days are dead.

SPEAKER_01 23:21

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 23:22

So, you know, it's hard when when those things crisscross, you know, what they're hearing at home isn't what what you want them to hear, but you just keep coaching, keep loving them, and uh hopefully they believe in you.

SPEAKER_01 23:35

Amen. So we talked about some changes and and some some you know difficult situations, I guess, or whatever. But now let's talk about some defining moments and some good stories. You kind of touched on it a little bit when you talked about the state championship game, but but maybe touch on some some specific moments or games that live on in your memory and kind of have a lasting impact on you.

SPEAKER_00 24:02

Well, the Western final when we were at Greensburg Central Catholic, you know, was was a rematch from the WPL Championship game. We played Manesson, who was who was just great. They were coached by Jojo Salvino, who's uh gonna be in every Hall of Fame there ever was. He just retired with I don't I don't even know how many, eight, seven, eight, nine hundred wins. And uh we beat them in the Western final uh down a gateway to go to the state championship. So that'll be one, you know, that'll be one we'll never forget. Um some buzzer beater shots, you know, some some some big buzzer beater shots. Um you know, those are ones you don't forget. I'll never forget. I made these little tickets, uh WPL playoff tickets for our guys and gave them to them. And I said, if we win tonight, you know, this is our ticket to the playoffs. And we had a big road win down at Penn Trafford years ago, and the kids met me in a locker room with water bottles and you know, squirt guns, and just you know, just like you see on TV. So that's cool. I saw that video on my phone. So I mean, the wins as you get older and you get away from it, you remember the wins, you remember the losses, but you just I mean, I know it sounds corny, but you just you really remember the relationships, and that's what I miss the most, you know, just being on a team. I started being on a team when I was eight years old, and I got to be on the team until I was 58. So that's awesome. It's not a bad deal.

SPEAKER_01 25:28

Yeah. I I was I was gonna ask, and you kind of touched on it a little bit, but maybe maybe dive deeper into it. Now that you're not with the whistle anymore, you you're not at the practices of the code. How do you measure success now when you go back to 30 years ago or whatever? How did you measure success then compare it to now looking back? And how did that change?

SPEAKER_00 25:49

Well, I was a lunatic 30 years ago. I mean, you know, I mean, I all my old players say that I'm soft, they say that I'm too easy, that I'm I'm not, I'm not giving these kids today the same experiences that I gave them, that I gave those guys. I mean, they took me on the parking lot years ago and basically had me up against my car yelling at me saying, You're you're you're too soft. Where who are you? You know, you used to make us wear the same shoes, wear the same socks, nobody could wear a t-shirt, nobody could have facial hair, nobody could have an earring, nobody, and you know, and as you get older, you just kind of you just kind of forget about those things, but those guys don't, you know, and they and they obviously they appreciated those things and they appreciated the rules and the standards, and uh, but uh, you know, I look back at it, but I don't I don't apologize for wanting to win. I mean, what what what are we playing for? You know, yeah. We're keeping score, you know. Uh I don't think there's anything wrong. Well, I I had a parent one time tell my wife and I, my son was pitching and and they lost, and and the parents said, Your son's a sore loser. And I said, Well, thanks for the compliment, you know? Yeah. He didn't do anything wrong, he didn't throw his glove or anything like that. He shouldn't at everybody, but he was upset that they lost, you know, in in Little League baseball. And the lady said that's a sore loser. And I said, Oh, that's that's not how we read it in our family, you know. Yeah, like so I I mean times were different, but uh I think kids are great today. I think kids get a bad rap today. Uh I think society's changed, you know. I think parents have changed.

SPEAKER_02 27:29

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:30

But I don't think kids are I don't think kids on the weekends do anything worse than what we did. I think actually we were we were worse. I think so. I would agree. I would agree. You know, so I think that they just uh today you just try to just try to coach them and lead them and uh lead by example and be there for them and just more than anything let your kids know that you're always there for them. And I think that I think I did that 30 years ago, or I wouldn't still be getting these text messages and these phone calls. So there you go. Other than just being a lunatic and getting thrown out of games and getting technicals, my principals had to sit me down at Central Cambria and say, if you get one more technical, we're firing you. So you can learn and then years later I won a sportsmanship award at Enfield. The officials picked me with the most sportsmanship, and everybody got a big chuckle out of that. But so I guess I changed a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 28:26

A little, yeah. Let's let's stay on the you kind of talked it a little bit. Let's stay here a little bit about uh today's athletes. Like, like if we do have some young athletes listening, what can they learn about the players you'll never forget? What can they learn and what lessons and what takeaways can they have from from those six players that you talked about earlier?

SPEAKER_00 28:46

Always be the hardest worker. Always try to be the first one up in the gym, always try to be the last one to leave. I know that's corny and everybody says that, but you know, these guys that I think about, they hurried. They didn't they didn't go out in the parking lot to talk to their girlfriend, they didn't go out in the parking lot to get their duffel bag. You know, they didn't they didn't walk around the hallway after school. They they raced down to the locker room and they got up to the up to the gym and then I'd have to literally grab them and scream at them to get them out of the gym and get them out of the locker room and make them leave and make them go home. Uh that's one thing. I think number two is you know, always always try your best to put your team ahead of you. You know, try to remember it's not all about you. I mean AAU kind of is. I kind of understand AAU. You're trying to go out there and and better your game and and uh but I'll tell you what, I bet your college coaches, I know I know hundreds of them. I know they want to see a kid in an AAU passes the ball, who helps his opponent up off the floor, who takes a charge, who points at his buddy when uh when when he or she gives him a great assist. So being a great teammate's never gonna hurt you. You know, I think I think you get confused if you think it's all about your points, because it's not. You know, college college coaches aren't looking, I mean, sure they want to see kids who can score, but you know, you look at you look at these teams that are playing in uh the final four right now, I'm sure they have great teammates and and great leaders. And well, the kid that beat my favorite team's Duke, and the kid that made the shot to beat Duke, the Mullins kid from Yukon. That was the only shot he made the whole game. Yep, yeah. And then Caravan had the had the confidence to throw it to him and and he and he made it. So what's that type of caravan kid as a leader? He I mean he could have shot it himself.

SPEAKER_02 30:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:37

He passed it to a wide open teammate, and then Yukon moves on and Duke goes home. So I think just I think just being the hardest worker, uh, putting the team ahead of yourself. Um you know, don't forget about academics. You know, you can get just as much money going to college for your academics as you can for athletics. More kids get money for ac academics than they do athletics.

SPEAKER_01 31:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:03

You know, that's that's a fact. So don't forget about school and don't forget, you know, I always say too, don't forget, don't forget how you treat people at school. Don't walk around school like you're something special. You know, be good to the janitor, be good to the cafeteria ladies. Yep. Be good to your teachers, you know, be good to your classmates, be good to that little that kid who's maybe sitting by themselves in lunch and doesn't have anybody to talk to, and just try to be remembered as a good person.

SPEAKER_01 31:29

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 31:30

Amen. I think that's the greatest compliment any any parent can hear is that hey, your kid was a good kid, or any coach can hear. Your players, uh I saw your players do this in school today, I saw your players do this, you know, and that just makes you feel great that uh that maybe you you put you played a small part in that.

SPEAKER_01 31:48

Yep. Agreed. So so this question I don't think applies, but if it does, let me know. I wanted to ask you to to to close. I wanted to say uh of the players you'll never forget, are there any you haven't talked to in a while? And and if you ran into them, what what would you say to them? But it sounds like you talked to all your players.

SPEAKER_00 32:13

Yeah, I talked to almost all of them. There's a few probably that you know maybe just went the other way and or maybe just we just didn't have a great experience, but and we just don't talk to each other as much. But I mean the guys, the guys that I'm talking about today, I talk to all the time, you know. Uh every holiday we all try to talk, you know, by text. Or, you know, they'll they'll text me, you know, you know, just just with a question about a job, or there's hardly a day goes by one of them doesn't text me and ask for be a reference. Uh write them a letter of recommendation, which is awesome. You know, that brought that that brought me to tears a couple months ago with my wife. There was like five straight nights. My old players text me five nights in a row for a letter recommendation for a college or a summer job or an internship, or these are the kids I just got done coaching. So, you know, they uh it just I just get I just guess guess I would say I gave you everything I had, and you guys gave me everything you had, and it was fun, and now we're friends, and now we move on.

SPEAKER_01 33:24

Awesome. Just it's been an awesome interview, amazing, and it's just so awesome. All the lives that you touched, all the people that you impacted, and vice versa, in the way that they impacted you and helped you.

SPEAKER_00 33:38

I'm lucky, I'm very lucky. Yeah, it'd be hard to think that people just teach school for 35 or 36 years and never never coach or never run a club or never run an activity because sure it's nice to teach a kid math for 40 minutes, but you never build those relationships inside the classroom like you do in uh on a playing or a musical or a band or anything, anything like that. Yeah. You know, that that's that's where the that's where the relationships are are built, and that's to me that's what it's all about.

SPEAKER_01 34:08

Well, hats off to you. Awesome career. You touched a lot of people, um, impacted a lot of people positively. That's awesome, that's amazing. Thank you for thank you for talking today.

SPEAKER_00 34:20

This is awesome. Thanks for having me. I loved it. This is really neat, and I wish you the best. If you ever needed any help with anything, let me know. Absolutely. Thanks, John. Thank you.