Recruiting for Culture & Developing Players without Scholarships

In this episode Messiah College Women's Basketball Coach Mike Miller talks about culture building, recruiting and leadership development at this DIII powerhouse.

With 40 years of coaching, Coach Miller explains how he looks for three key traits in recruits: skill and athletic ability, work rate and positive personality, with particular emphasis on finding players who want to grow in their faith. He discusses how Messiah focuses on developing well-rounded students rather than just athletes, with a supportive culture built on trust and Christ-centered values. The conversation covered common misconceptions about DIII basketball, including financial aid expectations and the difficulty of the college basketball experience, while highlighting how the program helps develop resilience and leadership skills that transfer to successful adulthood.

NOTE: As an indication of how successful this program is under the leadership of Coach Miller, I had to re-record the stats of how many wins and championships the team correctly has since the school's website team can't keep up.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:05

To the Coachable Players podcast where we talk with coaches, athletes, business leaders, and high performers about what separates people who grow from people who stay stuck. Today's guest is the women's basketball coach at Messiah University, Mike Miller. This is going to be an awesome episode. I'm so so fired up here. Coach Miller started in 1986 at Messiah. 800 athletes win to understand about coach milling. And that's also thirdmost in college basketball. 17 dive right in and get going on. That's amazing. Go ahead, go for it. An 11-time coach of the year. All right, well, we're going to talk a little culture today here. So at the Division III level, you can't really rely on scholarships to attract players. So how do you build a program genuinely that people genuinely want to be part of?

SPEAKER_00 1:03

Yeah, I think you know, doing this a long time, I I really do believe um like a little bit of my history just to know that I was um I I was hired back at Messiah to teach in the business department, not to coach. So I played at Messiah, and uh my first year of teaching full-time, the coach left. And a week before the season, the president dean asked me if I would do it for one year. Um, and my wife and I talked about and said we would just do it if we did it together and as a ministry. So even that, there's the the just a very unique situation. Um, and then after 13 years, the world changed with women's athletics and uh academics, and they asked me, do I want to coach or uh go on and just be a full-time faculty member? And so I actually at that time took a demotion uh to because I felt the Lord was leading me to be a coach. So so the point of that being, it was at that point when when uh Coach Snow and I uh decided like what do we want this to look like? Because we were just flying around running in with our yellow pad, no technology, like we didn't really do the whole mission statement, vision statement, and because we didn't have time. And at that point, so for the past now 27 years, um that's where we have started. That's where the kind of the culture has grown from, you know.

SPEAKER_01 2:24

So yeah, awesome, so cool.

SPEAKER_00 2:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:27

So so what are some of the the core values that that define your your culture?

SPEAKER_00 2:33

Yeah, um, I think uh that's a really good question. I knew you were gonna ask something, and I didn't know you just went up in that. I just had some conversations with some colleagues of mine. Uh, we have some core values. Um, I should I should have probably brought brought them in here. We do reference them here and there, um, but quite honestly, like um our strongest core value is just that you know, try to imitate Christ, and you don't need you do not need rules and policies, you know what should be done and not done, and when when kids falter, uh you're a part of our family, and we're gonna walk alongside you and get you back on track, um, and thus trust builds. So it's like a you know, and then I do think like the whole thing works here in our program because of trust. That um, and how does that doesn't come from rules and all those kind and all the don'ts that you could have, and now core values are not part of that. Uh, core values are this is what we believe, this is what these are the things. Um, but of course, you know, we expect everybody to work hard, um, uh, and all those kind of things. We expect everybody to treat each other with respect. All those things matter, and when they don't happen, we have conversations. Um, but it's but it that's that's not the end all be all. Um I would like to go back if I I could for us being uh and I was in the business department teaching, is the home uh vision statement. Uh we had we have two vision statements that we have not wavered from in 27 years, and that is at the basis of everything. Um, we talked when we talked to families when we recruit them. The number one vision statement is we want to prepare our our uh basketball players, our student athletes to be successful when they leave here. That is 100% our number one um goal, if you will. And in so doing, those core values come into that as you help people that those core values become habits, become things that are second nature. So those core values are important, but it starts with our mission of we're gonna develop people academically, we're gonna develop them spiritually. Basketball, of course, but even socially, uh, trying to in in today's age, trying to develop grit and resilience. I really think that's that's the key right now to to uh success is to you have grit and resilience um in the things that you do and things you want to you want to go for. So yeah, that all sounds sounds really good here. Um yeah, let me just yeah, I'll finish up that thought. And our other so that that is just, I mean, to me, and for us here at Messiah in our program, the f the parents are involved. It's a family, like it's a business, like like because of my business background, um, like the parents are investing a lot of money in the whole division three thing. So they can't, I don't, I think they need to be a part of the process. Um, and again, with respect and all those kind of things, um, you know, we don't have parent problems and and those things because of the trust factor, because they have balled into that that that we're here to look out for the best for their daughter, not just playing time and minutes and wins. Yeah, so I think that that has just um been a part of us, and then we do have another a second one a um which which really separates us mission statement. Uh, like we want to use our basketball program as a way to advance the kingdom for Christ. And we talk, we we talk about that, so we aren't for everybody, you know, and it's um so that helps have a good that helps have a consistent culture because there's a frame, there's a foundation when when new personalities, new people come into the program, there's still a basic foundation, yeah. That that that goes from like people want the best, they just maybe don't know how to get there. Yeah, so it's it really does help um you know just to stay consistent and really walk along people. Um and when they mess up, it's great because it gives us opportunities to talk about it, you know, and learn from it, yeah. Yeah, it's not about being perfect. You know, these are 18 to 22 year olds and they're away from home and they're trying to figure out their own life, and we just want to guide them properly.

SPEAKER_01 6:40

So awesome. Yeah and and with with Jesus Christ as part of your foundation, that's uh you can't get any better than that. So that's that's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 6:48

Yeah, no, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 6:49

Yeah. Um, so we're looking at it, say we're looking at a young recruit. Like, like is there something that tells you this player is gonna be coachable, or is there their body language you look for, any any sort of yeah, yeah, that that's an interesting thing.

SPEAKER_00 7:06

Um, I'll go if I if you allow me, I'll just go through what I think most people do, and then I'll answer that question. Okay. Uh we in our very first meeting with families, uh it usually comes up, they're asking a question, what do you look for in a player? Um and I go through it, I'll I'll go through it real quick here. Uh um, but when you do something for so long, you can talk for an hour. That you know, 40 years ago it would take me two minutes, now I take an hour. But um yeah, so we look for three things, all are equally important. But the first part is uh it is uh is skill and athletic ability. Uh and and it's to me it's a it's a it's a non-starter, if you will, but a lot of people think division three or even a Christian's college that that's not that isn't part of the deal, but it really is. Like we want to compete at the national level. Um, you know, we get to the second round, the incident of way, suite 16, it's like playing division one basketball, like low D one basketball. So you you need people, you know, you need people who can play. So um, so that is definitely part of it. The second thing goes to your question um is your work rate. Like, do you actually like working? Um, do you understand there's an investment to a goal? Like, if you want to achieve something, you have to invest. Uh so trying to figure out that work rate, um, because when like we don't because that will just take care of the academic piece too. Like, we don't really have act, we rarely rarely have any academic issues because that that work rate shouldn't just be about basketball. Yeah, if they do it, if they do it because of basketball, then my hope is that they're developed that habit for other things in their lives. But that work rate is really important. So if we go to a practice, uh go to an AU tournament. I mean, I'm just down, I just spent the weekend in Atlantic City, uh, open period, you know, 450 teams all over, you know. I'm looking at players and like when you're in that situation, you do not have to be the hardest worker because the assumption is everybody's, but you can't you can't match the intensity of everybody else. Like, if you don't match that intensity, um, then you're probably you're not gonna make it. Like, we aren't gonna look at you. Yeah, um, if if I'm going to a high school game, you need to be the hardest worker on the team. Yeah, because every high school team has a whole bunch of kids that aren't aren't there for the same reasons. Yeah, you might be the only player that wants to play college basketball on a high school team, but there you need to there shouldn't be ever anybody outworking you. Uh so that work rate um is important because again, division three, um, there's so many things that happen outside of the coach's purview. There, there's lifting and plow metrics and all this kind of stuff. There's skill work that I'm not allowed to be there for. So, yeah, so um I want to protect our current players because they've all come from high schools where they were the hardest work and it got really annoying because they cared more than everybody else. So I don't want them to do high school all over again. They got, you know, and then the days that they don't feel this gets like they they just don't feel like doing it, to have a couple teammates pull them along and say, Come on, let's go, you know, as opposed to a bunch of teammates saying, You're right, let's not do that today. You know, so it all kind of works together. Um, and then the third thing is personality. Um I hit this pretty, I hit this all pretty hard, but that it's it's an eye, the eye test for the first one. Um, but for work grade and personality, we really want positive people. Um when you're in high school, um, if you don't like somebody, and they could be perfectly fine person, but your personality just don't match. You hop after after practice or school, you hop in the car and go home. You know, in college, you're in the lot, you're in the team room together, you're going to dinner, going to classes, going to dorm. Like you are literally living with these people. Um, and if you are a negative person, it literally sucks the life out of people. Yeah. Um, and you know that as you know, and yeah, it just sucks. And it just uh I my job is to protect the players that are already in the program, um, as opposed to that that recruit is less important than the people already in. So try and protect them with that work rate and personality. Um, and I and I, you know, full disclosure, I say this to every single family. If you were born in this country and you are talented enough to play college basketball, the folks can figure out how to pay for it, and you are intelligent enough to go to college, every day can't be a bad day. Yep, exactly. You've got to realize at some point you need to be grateful. Yeah, exactly. And we really, really hit that. And uh that can and these this kind of intensity talks could scare some people away, and that's okay, because we're not for everybody, you know. Yep. Um, and there's a second part to this third one, and that is do you want to grow in your faith? You know, you don't there's no litmus test, how many Bible verses or what what songs you know from youth group or anything like that, but just like or do you want to grow in your faith? Um and it's okay to be a little uncomfortable, that's growth. But if it's a lot uncomfortable, that's just not healthy mental health-wise. Um, and uh yeah, it just you don't need to be here, and that's okay. Um so that creating that culture and and and things, um, so what you know going back, so we looked for that from a standpoint of the recruiting process. Then to answer a question, what we try to find out, this coachability piece is huge. Um and I'll be honest with you, um, we hope we kind of ferret that out in the other things, but you don't really know. Everybody's on their best behavior on an interview.

SPEAKER_01 12:35

Yep, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 12:36

You know, and including the parents, you know, because we tend to have parents that they want their kids to maybe play here, so they're on their best behavior too, you know, and you just don't really know about that coachability piece. Um, and there are there have been in the very recent past, um we we've had players that just don't understand why they have to change. Well, that's a coachability issue, right? That that is the I've always done it this way, or or my dad tells me to do it this way, or like that goes right into your question of coachability.

SPEAKER_02 13:09

Yep, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 13:11

Um, and there's a lot of ways to play the game of basketball. We choose it to do it this way. The other ways aren't any worse, aren't any better, but this is how we choose to do it. This is where my giftings are, and this is how we're gonna do things in play. But we we have had people that um they really kind of buck that, and it it's hard um for a year or two, you know. Yeah, so it's just no doubt about it. But we do try to figure that out by just eyeballing people when they're in the office. See how they make an eye contact with me when I talk, and when they do, I affirm them. I said, This is really great. I'm watching you just look at me in the eye. If they're doing that, I really feel they're gonna be coachable. Yep. If they're not, if their heads are down or they're letting their parents talk too much, you really don't know what you're getting. And that that coachability piece could be part of it. So yeah. But uh, so yeah, so um and I do think the other piece of of the coachability piece is a trust goes back to trust. You're gonna ask people to do things that they they everybody wants to do what they're good at, um, having them do things that they aren't good at, and then they fail and you want playing time, they don't want to be embarrassed. You get into there's a lot of good reasons why not to be all in at times, but we need to overcome those with trust, you know, that update and just know that I'm I'm looking out for their best interest, not just the not just the teams, but the individual. Yeah. So awesome.

SPEAKER_01 14:42

I like the the piece you said about protecting the the culture that you have and protecting the players that you have when you when you bring new new recruits in. Which which could lead to not bringing in the most talented or passing on talent, I guess it could lead to that. Is that is that a difficult decision when you see not a good culture fit, but someone's talented and um it used to be. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:06

Um I've grown up.

SPEAKER_01 15:07

Nice, yeah, it's a good answer.

SPEAKER_00 15:10

You know, when you do something for 40 years and you have the you know, the age I am, uh, you look back and like, why did I stress over those things? Yeah, because college isn't asking me to win anymore. Like it's that's just all internal. Like whoever's on my roster, we're gonna value and we're gonna have a great experience, and they're gonna leave here with lifelong friends. Does it really matter whether or not we win 23 games or 18 games? Yeah, but I didn't, I was young and foolish, so I did not allow when when we got to the place after the first 13 years, we did not recruit people that we felt were not gonna like. So we look at those three things. If they're two out of three or three, let's have a conversation, three out of three, absolutely zero or one, go play somewhere else. Yeah, yeah, but 25 years ago, it was hard to let them go. Yeah, the the people who had that number one thing down. Um now I don't care. Yeah, I just hope they don't go into our league. So yeah, so I don't want to face them. Yes, um, and that's but I yeah, I really I can honestly say I really don't don't care. Yeah, um I love it.

SPEAKER_01 16:20

Yeah, so what about um what's kind of the biggest miss misunderstood item when it comes to division three with with parents and players? Any sort of misunderstanding at all or misunderstood items?

SPEAKER_00 16:39

Yeah, I think um I think the probably the biggest one is and there are pl there are schools, and I'm not gonna name them things like that. It can get a little shady with financial aid, but I think the biggest misconception is the whole financial aid piece. Okay, because somebody's gonna it shows up on social media and uh in other places, or you know, it just gets around a parent who just has spent and you're you're in the middle of this, so or you just started it, you've just spent seven or eight years, and and please don't come back and add up all the money you spent during for AAU, or you'll be depressed. Um but uh but they think like if I they they want to just the parents want to justify all that time and money. Um so a parent will say, My daughter got a scholarship at at Messiah, just to their neighbors, to their families, you know, and it was an academic scholarship. It wasn't had nothing to do with basketball, but they don't they don't say it was an academic scholarship.

SPEAKER_02 17:41

Yep, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:42

So so it sounds like it was all worthwhile. Well, that stuff is just out there all over the place that people are doing. And there's some schools that are quite frankly cheating, and and other schools that are in trouble. Um, if a school is in trouble, they gave out they give out great financial aid packages. Like if because they're doing that for every student.

SPEAKER_02 18:01

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:02

And it's fair, it's legal, it's fair, but some of the best, you know, some of the best programs that have those one-off years are programs that were almost going out of business, so everybody's getting in pretty cheap. Yeah. So so that that financial piece, like most schools really are not, there's no cheating going on. There's not this pool of money that if they want to, you know, that there's gonna it's gonna magically appear. Um, so that is definitely a misconception. Yeah, and I do think um the other piece is how hard it is to play college basketball. Yeah, you're coming out of high school, you either have you know, some people or three sport athletes who just go from sport to sport to actually be dedicated to a sport. Um, it is it is the for on the women's basketball, on the women's sports side, it is the hardest sport to play in college. Like they start when they get on campus because our culture is good, they want to, they have goals, they want to win a national championship, they want to make deep runs. That's all that's wonderful, but they own those goals and they know they have to go back to our you know core values. If it will they know they have to work for it, yeah, and they want and they want to work for it. So they're doing all these things the moment they step on campus, and that's so they're doing um lifting uh three times a week, plyometrics a couple times a week, playing some pickup, doing skill work. Some of those workouts are 6 or 6 30 in the morning that they're doing like they actually are choosing the times to go early, not me. Um and and then that's what they're doing as soon as they hit campus, and that's before October 15th comes along. Oh wow, okay. That's I mean, that's and then it's like and if as a basketball dad, you know, like there's no thanks, there's no fall break, no Thanksgiving break, no Christmas breaks cut short. This past, we always if we make it to NCAA's and we do that a lot, that takes care of spring break. You know, so you come back after spring break and you have like six weeks to be a college student, you know. So it is like so it works how how we've evolved into this without a whole set of roles. Um, it really does work. Like people want to be a part of this. Uh, it's my job to create an atmosphere. Well, I that's I mean, I'll finish the statement. It's my job to create an atmosphere that they want to be in the gym.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

Nice.

SPEAKER_00 20:15

Like, that's that's my management leadership stuff comes out. Like, I need to make it fun's a difficult, I don't like the word fun, but I need to make it enjoyable. I need to make it valuable, it's worth their time. I'm not wasting their time. Uh and like so when they have a long day of classes or bad test grade or just got off tough conversation with a roommate or something like that, they're look forward to going to practice. It's not at the end of the day, and I have to go to practice. Yeah, that is a very, very intangible, if but if you will, tangible thing that I really, really work hard at. Um, back in the my business days, I used to talk, I used to do the continuum education for adults. Okay. I mean, I as I whether you're a Christian or not, I think your role as an adult and as a manager is to create an atmosphere when Monday morning comes around, they're okay to go to work. Or Sunday night, they're not stressed because they have to go to work.

SPEAKER_02 21:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:11

That is that is a legacy and a gift that you can give to your employees, and I want to give that to my players. Yeah. So so it all kind of I usually see it all fits. They're gonna work hard, um, because they they will, because that's the recruiting process, the culture. So that the trust goes in there. Um I like it. So I know I'm rambling, but it it just kind of all fits. That's why the runs I don't have a yeah, you know, a manual, if you will.

SPEAKER_01 21:37

So that sounds good. I I love I love everything I'm hearing here.

SPEAKER_00 21:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:42

So what what makes the division three experience so so valuable in your mind? Because you're you're an alum of the program, you've been there forty years coaching, and yeah, I think I think it's if it's done right.

SPEAKER_00 21:59

I think Um that's a good question. I I think probably the biggest thing is that if it's done well, they can have a full college experience academically, doing missions trips, doing class, do what do whatever they do with them. They can finish their major in seven semesters or or eight semesters. You know, they can do all the things. Um, they're gonna develop lifelong friends that are gonna be a deeper, you know, deeper thing. Uh, my wife, my wife just showed me an Instagram a couple of days ago, and I'm trying to think exactly how it goes. But the Instagram said, Thank you, coach, for picking out the best bridesmaids a girl could ever have, or something like that. You know, yeah, it was like, yeah, so just stuff. It's but having that having that depth of of act of um college experience is an absolute legacy. And to know you played a high level of basketball too. Um we're pretty good. Um there's some there's some gravitas to our program uh with how we do things, what we do, um the funding um that comes our way through fundraising and camps. And like, you know, we do some really, really nice things. So in some respects, I think our basketball program is one of the best places to play in the nation. You just have the parents just have to write a check.

SPEAKER_01 23:23

Nice, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:24

That's that's kind of I and I'm I don't mean that proudfully. I just I really do believe like that you can really have it all. Yeah, so yeah. So with that being said, I love transfers because they know they they actually have they know what they know what's normal.

SPEAKER_01 23:43

Yeah, they can see the they can compare.

SPEAKER_00 23:47

So they somebody happens to complain for you know about something that transfer gonna look at like, are you kidding me? These things that this A B and C just happened to me last week or last month at my other school. Yeah, you know, it's like you have no idea how good you have it, that kind of thing. Just so trans, and we just had a transfer from uh division for one of the PSAC schools that just finished her career. She came in uh after three semesters. Um, and it was great having her last five semesters because she would she just and she got to do things she never would have gotten to do um if she would have stayed, you know, where she was, including right now she's on a missions trip to Thailand, you know. Awesome. That's a cool thing she would have never got to do. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:29

Very cool. So so a lot of your players, you know, were the the stars, you know, the big players in high school, and then they they get to the college level. How do you keep them motivated if their minute levels aren't the same, if their their input isn't the same as what it was previously?

SPEAKER_00 24:45

Okay, well, I'll answer that question, and then I want to, in case you have parents listening to you, I want to address the concept for as well. Yeah, the question is um is very it's a simple answer. Everything that I've talked about up to this point, like that's why that is why we do it. If it if it's about minutes, then you probably shouldn't be here. Yeah, like we're looking for pet players and parents who want something bigger than themselves. We're creating this experience, everything is wonderful. Um, from like we we had just so you know the the numbers. Uh we had, I think we ended up with 87 practices, two scrimmages, and 29 games in a 30-week you know plus hotel, plus plane trips, hotel things, uh team devots, team functions, all that on top of that, you know, recruiting nights, you know. So it's like creating that environment. Like, I pretty much like if somebody like, are you kidding me that you're worried about whether whether or not you're playing 20 minutes or 25 or 15 or 20? I don't say that to them, but I try to walk them through everything. Yeah, like like their feelings are real, disappointments are real, but there has to be like kind of reminder why you signed up for this, and nothing is ever stated that I definitely believe in excuse me, coughing here. I definitely believe in uh um underpromising, yeah, you know, and you know, doing that and over you know, I definitely I don't ever talk about oh you're gonna you're gonna start as a freshman, you're gonna do anything like that. There's no there's none of that ever said, yeah. So because there should be some self self-determination. Goal setter, you can determine that. You can watch your games, where or not you fit, whether or not you're good enough. Yep, you know, so there should be some research on that end too. So that gets into have you know having some problems, but let's go if I will if I can. Um that that is a humongous issue for young freshmen or for freshmen as young players. When they come in as their team star, oh yeah, and they literally fail, all the pickups they are getting blown by, they're getting not getting, they don't like you have these shooters and everyone get a shot off. Yeah, even in pickup, we we have um like defense is our daddy. So like even in pickup, the returners just don't want people getting open shots, yeah. And and in there invariably after the first pickup, they're calling home to mom and dad because they want to know how it went. Yeah, and usually it's not good. And it's so how you how you handle failure, um, and I and I love the word failure. I don't because I even talk to kids about it. Like failure just means you didn't get it done that time, doesn't mean you're gonna do it next time, doesn't mean you are a failure, you just failed in that moment, and let's figure out how not to the next time. Um but but that like overcoming that, and uh, we have a current assistant coach who was ended up being a two, she played five years because of COVID, but her last two years she was an all-American. Um, we only had 11 games for freshman year, but she only played like 18 minutes. Okay, she was bad.

SPEAKER_02 28:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:12

And a thousand points score in high school, and it completely rocked her. Like to all her confidence, went like she looked like she couldn't guard anybody because she was thinking about everything. It completely like she was she was not good, yeah. And and she had this potential. Uh, so now like she talks about that at our camps. You know, we have panels and stuff. She talks, she followed, walked on along, like getting through not feeling successful, and we're not in that whole because um we all have that even as adults, we have that chatter box saying you're not good enough, you you can't do this. You know, a young girl, new new experience. There's in her head, it's like I'm not good enough. Why what am I doing here? Um, maybe it's an attack by by Satan, it could be whatever, but you have that chatter box, and you need to have some people walking along and talking to them.

SPEAKER_01 29:02

I love it.

SPEAKER_00 29:03

But that always happens. Yep, that always happens, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:06

So yeah. Here's one of my favorite topics. You ready for this one here? Yeah. How much player development skill is it versus when when I'm sorry, let me how much of a player development is skill work versus confidence mindset and leadership? I love playing with confidence. I always tell my daughter, you need more confidence, you know, and how much it versus skill, you know?

SPEAKER_00 29:31

Yeah, I believe it's I would say it's probably like 30, 40 skill development, 60, the mind.

SPEAKER_01 29:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:40

And yeah, um, maybe even less skill development, but um good. Yeah, I would even probably say it's like because people it might it might be like tweaking a shot, you know, learning to make a counter move, uh, things like that. Um, so I would say it's even more, probably 70, 80 percent of the mental um wanting to deal with and something I talk about at camps, um, the whole um growing, I think, and probably probably talk to your daughter about this, but growing as a player, it's not it's not linear, it's not like this straight up I'm gonna work and do it. It's it's it's plateaus and spikes, and plateaus and spikes. And who are you at the plateaus? Are you just keep plugging away? Keep whether it's a week, a month, six months, are you gonna keep fighting on that plateau until you spike again? Uh, and the same thing with with development. You can just you can keep working on things, but you might not see results. So the mental side of do you do you want to do this? Are you passionate? Do you believe you can? Um, and then you just get to the next, you get you just cycle up to the next plateau. But I do think um, yeah, so many young people, whatever they're doing, think that everything is linear. Like if I if I do X amount of work, I'm gonna get X amount of result, and I'm gonna and just it's not life, you know. Um so your Y is important. Why are you doing it?

SPEAKER_01 31:05

Yeah, yep. And when it comes to your uh your your team leaders, um, are there are there consistent habits among them that that you see?

SPEAKER_00 31:16

Um I would say not really. Um I try to, I mean, first of all, they need to be worth it, they need to have taken taking care of their own business up to that point. Um, because as you know, like the hardest thing to do is to be promoted from within. Because all of a sudden, every one of your em every one of your old people you worked with, now you're their supervisor, they're gonna remember every time you complain, every time you all of a sudden their memories are great. So um, can they, you know, have they grown, have they been pretty good um through their three years or so? And the other thing is do they go back and own it? You know, do they go back to maybe the sophomore junior class who remembered them as when they were younger and go back and just talk about, hey, I was wrong here, you know, do things like that um to help them again build trust. It's more about building trust than you know than anything else and keeping trust. Uh, but I would I would say um I just try to use their skills, what their giftings are, and then try to move them where they're this goes back to our first mission statement.

SPEAKER_02 32:25

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 32:26

Like you don't have it all together just because you're older. Um, some some are just way beyond their eight years, but that's very few. So the issue is working with them, keep developing them. They obviously are good people, they they're good role models, but they maybe aren't the best leaders yet, and just kind of keep keep working through that. But but it goes back to like to make them be successful when they leave here, position them to be successful. So keep working with them.

SPEAKER_01 32:53

Yep. So 40 years, that's that's awesome. That's uh you've seen a lot, develop a lot of leaders. Uh what life lessons do athletes gain through college basketball that you've seen carry through in careers and and adulthood?

SPEAKER_00 33:16

Uh I think that uh yeah, if I were to narrow it down, this is the first thing comes to mind. I wish I had these questions before I am first thing to come to mind would be that they can do hard. Like that is probably that is probably um the biggest compliment I could give them too. That they can do hard in their marriages and raising families and their jobs, uh losing a job, you know, all those kind of things that they've learned that they can do hard. Yeah. Um, and um, and they can take when they when they leave here, they can take on the world. Um, and I and I say in the recruiting process, like I'm not I try to make things enjoyable, but I'm not worried about it all being fun. Um like my my hope is when they're 30 or 40 and look back and they're successful, they'll realize like like there's a confidence and a peace about them, like that, yeah, this is all worth it, type of thing. Like they feel that's where that's where their experience would come out is 10 years from now, 15 years from now, when they realize they've been through they've been through worse at times, been through hard, you know. But it's it's hard getting it's it's hard working, getting along with teammates for all the hours you're together and personalities and yeah. So yeah, I would definitely say that that's one. Um, and then and clearly for our for me too would be this that uh that they own their faith. When they leave here, it's not their families, that's not their parents' faith, um, that it's theirs. You know, we're not trying to change it, but they they walk out of here as an adult and making the right choices, you know, that their parents would be proud of them.

SPEAKER_01 35:00

So awesome. Yeah, I love it.

SPEAKER_00 35:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:03

And they got that nice foundation to to work off of for the rest of their life. So yeah, I love good stuff. Well, coach, this is outstanding. I think parents, players, and other coaches will take something from this conversation. I really enjoyed it. I want to meet you in person sometime, and yeah, that should be easy enough. So yeah, right down the road. Yeah, coach. This was outstanding. I think parents, players, and coaches will take something valuable from this conversation. Thanks again for joining us on the Coachable Players podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, share it with a coach, a parent, a business leader, or a young athlete who cares about growth, leadership, and building winning cultures. We'll see you next time on the coachable players. And until next time, stay humble, stay hungry, and stay coachable.