Terrance Dennis: From Playing at a High Level to Coaching at a High Level

Terrance Dennis' has been on a journey through football. In his youth sports days, he displayed a coachable attitude, doing whatever the team needed to succeed, which helped his high school team win three consecutive state championships. In college, he used that same positive team-first approach to drive him as a walk-on freshman at the University of Missouri to earn plays on the field as a long-snapper, special teams gunner and eventually wide receiver.

In this episode, Coach Terry discusses the importance of coachability, highlighted by his own willingness to accept any role to contribute to the team. He shares insights into the biggest adjustments from high school to college, emphasizing the commitment required at the collegiate level. As he talks about his journey to coaching, he reflects on his mentors and how they influenced his coaching philosophy. 

Now on the coaching side at Cornell University, Coach Terry shares his thoughts on the recruiting process, the role of parents and the challenges of coaching today's athletes in the era of social media, NIL and the transfer portal. 

From his youth days to playing big time D1 football to coaching and recruiting players, Coach Terry stresses the value in life of building genuine relationships with players and the lasting impact of a coach well beyond the X's and O's.  

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:03

Hello, welcome to another episode of Coachable Players. The podcast built on one simple belief that most successful athletes, employees, and business leaders all share a trait. They are coachable. Today's guest, Terry Dennis, has experienced football from nearly every perspective imaginable. He was an outstanding high school player, earned the opportunity to play in college, developing the next generation of college football players while coaching and recruiting high school athletes. That journey from recruit to player to professional to coach to recruiter provides a unique perspective on what separates people who continue to grow from those who just plateau. Today, we'll talk about coachability, leadership, recruiting, and why success isn't just about talent. Welcome to the show, Terry. How are we doing? What's going on, man? Good to be here. Doing good. I'm excited, man. This is really cool. I'm so glad my uh brother introduced me to you. And just on the couple phone calls, just on the phone call we had, uh, you seem very energetic and uh just a positive dude to be around. So I'm excited about this.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

Proud to be.

SPEAKER_02 1:19

Yes, awesome. So let's start at the beginning. Uh when you play, when you were a high school player, what what were some of your dreams when it came to sports?

SPEAKER_01 1:31

I think I was just like any other kid playing football. I played at a high-level high school here in Kansas City, um, Ray Peck High School. Bill knows that. I uh but I I definitely, you know, you have that dream of just making it big or playing at the next level at a high level, like I did at the University of Missouri. And, you know, just kind of making your way from there. I think for me at the time it was more microscopic. I didn't think as big as what it actually could be. But certainly winning three state titles back to back to back helped. You know what I mean? And a lot of the guys that I actually got the opportunity to play with, not just in high school, but with in college and against in college, kind of set the tone for me. But I think my dreams obviously just kind of on a microscopic, childlike level, were just to see what it would like to make it to the big see what it's like to make it to the big leagues.

SPEAKER_02 2:19

Awesome. So cool. So, what what kind of player were you back in the day in in high school?

SPEAKER_01 2:24

I was kind of a role player, if I'm honest. Um, I didn't complain much. I know I wasn't the guy that you were gonna just circle every single time on the scouting report. We had those guys. Uh, but for me, I I kind of just played my role. You know, I was a receiver. I actually played offensive line all the way up until my sophomore year in high school. I just kept getting skinnier. Everybody that was supposed to play the position across from me and with me got bigger, and that's just kind of how the move to receiver happened. But um kind of a role player, you know, whatever it meant. I mean, I was our starting long snapper coming straight out the gate on the varsity. So I kind of just played my role, you know, whether I was behind somebody or I wasn't the mainstream guy that you were looking for. Um, just being able to contribute, add value the best way that I could. So that that's kind of how I describe it, if that's a good way to put it. But I thought it was an essential role.

SPEAKER_02 3:16

Awesome. So dependable, reliable, a role player in high school. Did that change it on in college?

SPEAKER_01 3:22

No, no, it was the same exact thing. I was never like the focal point of our offense, let alone special teams. Special teams has kind of been my thing, um, kind of leading up to where I'm at now with Cornell. But for me, I'd say it pretty much went the same exact way. You know, it really became earning your stripes a lot bigger on a bit much bigger level once I got to Mizzou. And for me, I think being that role player was kind of something I was comfortable with. Not that I was uncomfortable with being able to make a play or two, or uh I guess just kind of step into that next realm. But, you know, I think that's kind of where God had put me in just terms of playing my role, being as unselfish as I possibly could be, and doing what it took to help our team win, man. That's all I really cared about.

SPEAKER_02 4:07

Awesome. I mean, you sound you sound very coachable. I mean, you went from line to receiver, do what, do what the team needs to win. You sound but but looking back, you know, looking back, did you did you view yourself as maybe a coachable person back then going through that?

SPEAKER_01 4:24

I did, I did, and and for me, I I didn't really give myself a choice. I had to be. I didn't try to buck up against the system, I didn't try to fight coachability. For me, it was okay, this is what I need to do to be successful. Like the the I mean, the standard is what it is and it costs what it costs. Um, whatever cliche coaching phrase you want to put behind it, but for me, I kind of accepted my role and within accepting that role didn't really care about percentages. You know, there's like, hey, there's only a certain percentage of guys who ever get this opportunity or can go to the NFL or like all these that that that's not something I really cared about, still don't, when it comes to coaching. So I uh I guess kind of looking back, it was more or less me just understanding that my role actually did mean something, and I really wanted it to mean something. That's why when it comes to adding value and things of that nature, man, I wanted to I just wanted to contribute and and and that's it, even if I wasn't the mainstream guy you were looking for.

SPEAKER_02 5:26

Awesome, so cool. Um, also looking back, what was there a coach that was kind of served as a mentor or someone that kind of challenged you to bring the best out of you?

SPEAKER_01 5:36

I absolutely have so Dr. Pat Ivey, he's at the University of Louisville right now. Um he was our head strength coach at Mizzou. He played at Mizzou, he went on to play, I think, for the Packers, the Chargers, um, had a little stint, but that guy, funny enough, we actually share the same exact birthday. But as a kid who walked on to a major BCS back at the time, major BCS school, uh, played my role, all those different things. I just from a developmental standpoint, that guy probably set the tone for me the most. I know I had other guys, because me, I mean, Bill will tell you, man, I didn't have a pop. All my dads, I thought were just basically my coaches. So being able to have somebody like take it down a little bit, if if that's the way you want to keep it, um, and treat me like I'm one of the scholarship players and all that. Like he actually set the tone for how I should, you know, act physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually. Um, thinking back, I mean, I still sample a lot of his different things today. I'll call him, text him uh from time to time just to check on him, always get him, always beat him to it when it's like, hey man, happy birthday because we got the same day. Um but ivey was instrumental in me even wanting to become a coach. And honestly, it it wasn't even on the football sense. He was he was our strength coach. He just happened to know a lot of good things about some football, too. And I mean, there's other guys in there, Cornell Ford, who's up there at Purdue right now, uh, with Coach Odom. He coached Odom, he was there with us whenever I was there, the head coach. Um, Coach Pinkle, obviously, instrumental in the things that I've done. I was just able to see him. We were actually at a former teammate's uh funeral, uh, Alden Smith, just a couple weeks ago. But um, these are guys that didn't look at me like I was just some outsider, didn't look at me like I was some weirdo, just kind of it brought me in and accepted who I was in the grand scheme and allowed me to kind of step up into what they wanted me to be. So I I'd say those guys first and foremost.

SPEAKER_02 7:42

Okay, yeah. Um looking ahead, we're gonna transition, you know, from from high school to college here. Um what's kind of the the biggest adjustment from you as a as a player from high school playing in college in?

SPEAKER_01 7:59

Oh my god. So I played with some pretty outstanding athletes. Um, I'm not gonna lie to you. In college, obviously, but in high school, I played with some really dang good athletes, not just on my team. I mean, we're talking about guys who were draft picks, guys who won the Mackie Award for the best tight end in the country at the collegiate level, like in high school. They won three championships in a row, so you probably think on the team we had like 21 All-state athletes all throughout, like my like it was insane throughout my three years of varsity. Um, but I played with some outstanding guys, but when you get to college at that level specifically, everybody's that, and they're well seasoned, and they've got experience playing against some of the other best people in the country, too. So when it comes to all that, I I mean, the biggest adjustment for me wasn't necessarily the physical part. I knew that I'd be able to match intensity when it comes to the physical part. Even if I wasn't the strongest, the fastest, the biggest, I knew I was gonna rise to the occasion. Uh, there really wasn't anything that could break me because I wanted to be there. A thousand reasons why I shouldn't, and and one reason why I said I was gonna do it, and then I did. But I'd say more or less the commitment. And what I mean by that, honestly, is probably the schedule for one. Like, man, like I didn't have to get up at 6 a.m. to work out ever, unless it was summer back in high school. Yeah, obviously I got to wake up at like 6 a.m. or earlier whenever it was time to get ready to go to school, go to class, all that good stuff. But the adjustment and to committing to what it is, it's legitimately a full-time job. Yeah, um, but it's a job that's only as hard as you make it. You know, if you want to be there, it just doesn't feel like work. And it didn't, even though working hard became the standard, the standard just became working hard. So there wasn't ever a situation where I could say, you know what, like, man, this is oh, I got practice today. Yeah, or man, I gotta wake up and go lift, or that it the way that I had prioritized everything that was going on with football, with class, all those things, and it took me a probably a full year to get into the full swing of things. I just wanted to enjoy college my first year. Um, that was probably the biggest adjustment in terms of the commitment. And I had coaches around me, man, that no disrespect to my high school coaches, but those guys, this is their livelihood. Like, this isn't something that they, if they stop coaching, they can just go teach American history for all day. Um, and now looking at it from a coaching perspective, it's like, man, like I can't really allow somebody to come between this and my family. You know? Um and having that understanding now in retrospect is kind of an understanding of okay, that's why things were the the way that they were and essentially are the way that they are coming from high school into a major college football setting. So long-winded, but I I'd say that commitment piece, yeah, um, just forming those good habits, just as a man in general, I think that's probably the biggest adjustment.

SPEAKER_02 11:13

Cool. Did did you ever have uh like a welcome to college moment, whether you know it's a practice field or during a game, just that one moment that hits you?

SPEAKER_01 11:23

Right off the bat. Right off the bat. So my my welcome to college moment was something that we called level zero. So because I was a walk-on and not a scholarship guy, level zero was a was our lifting program. We had level zero gun club, that was our developmental lift. You had level two, level three, level four. Um, but for me, when I got there, I did not understand. Like uh legitimately, Coach Paul, another great guy, I think he's the head strength and conditioning guy with the Oklahoma Thunder now. But Coach Paul put it into perspective. We're sitting there sucking wind. We didn't touch a single plate, a single dumbbell for probably six to eight weeks when we first got there. We were always in that 6 a.m. group. We were working with sandbags, we were running, we were doing all the like the anything you I mean. I that's the first time I ever bear crawled up steps backwards. So I mean, he let us know, like, hey man, like you you think you just gonna come in here and get a spot. Like, this is like some BCS stuff, man. Like, you got to understand those guys over there are getting paid to do it, they got sought out, they got scholarship money. Like, you got to understand your place. If you want to be here, you gotta prove it. Um, in which there were guys who quit and all that good stuff. They're puking, they're doing all these things, but I mean, that that's not that was never a big enough reason for me to stop. There was never a big enough reason for me to be late. I mean, legitimately, they told us, like, as a walk-on, if you're late to one thing, I don't care what it is, it could be week uh one, week 11, whatever, you're gone. There's so many people right now that want to be in your spot, you're gone. Like, if you can't take this seriously, man, I don't know what to tell you. So that was probably my welcome to college. Like, man, is it always like this? And then I remember because I uh it's funny because whenever I started, whenever I got accepted to Missoula, um the way I did it was unique. I blew up the coaches. I like, hey, my name's Terry Dennis. I got this, blah, blah, blah. I went to Ray Peck. A couple of my teammates are there. Derek Washington, Chase Kaufman, um, all these cool guys that you already know but understand, like, I want to be there. They had me send film. I got invited to a bowl practice. Um, kind of a preferred walk-on type situation. They led me around the facility, gave me the tour, showed me all the gear, the equipment room. I uh it felt like home. Um, and then when it came to summer, when everybody else was in training camp, I couldn't be there. I had to start the first day of school. So my mom ended up helping me pay for hotel rooms to go stay in Columbia two hours away, uh, wake up, go to practice, and just sit there and watch. Um, like so like that, that's kind of so that's how it was. But then I didn't take into account the massive size difference in these guys. Legitimately, whenever I got on campus first day of school, um, even though I'd seen these guys practicing, I just kind of hung around the receivers, right? They're all my size. But I got to practice I got to campus to go to my classes, and I saw a guy by the name of Colin Brown. Okay, and he was the most massive individual I've ever seen. Colin was a good six foot eight, 375 pounds. It wasn't fat either. Oh, okay. And it was just him slow bopping, walking across the street down by Stankowski Field on campus. And I'm like, there's no way all of these dudes are that size. So kind of a cluster right there at the beginning when I first started, but yeah, it was kind of it wasn't even a hit. No one hit me yet. And I was like, okay, this is this is different.

SPEAKER_02 15:09

Yeah. That's awesome. It's a large boy you got there. Oh, he's calling.

SPEAKER_01 15:15

Yeah, yeah, he was gigantic.

SPEAKER_02 15:17

Oh man. So so we're still staying in college, and you still have your players' hat on for this answer here. But what in your eyes kind of separated the players who kept improving in college with the players that stopped developing and kind of plateaued?

SPEAKER_01 15:34

It's just how comfort I think it's a level of comfort. Uh for me, yes, the the word is coachability. I mean, I honestly, the guys who were coachable and wanted to actually learn, the guys who didn't think that they made it. Um, I played with first-round draft picks all over the place, and those guys were still asking questions. Hey, coach, hey, how do I did I do that right? And like they were susceptible to coach being able to ream them just a little bit, like, hey man, like what do you do? Like, come on now. Like, I need more out of you. You're my you're my number one guy, my number two guy. Yeah, and they just took it in stride and they actually learned from it. So the guys who are actually able to learn from the coaching, the guys who actually didn't take it personal, the guys who didn't think that they plateaued or made it, or man, I'm going to the league. So what do I need to listen to you for? The guys who actually had a why that was deeper than just, you know, I've done my job, so now what? Um, I think those are the guys that actually matured, not just in the weight room. I think it starts there a lot, but the guys who were mentally tough enough to take what they were being given in the situations they were put through and actually applying that. I think those are the guys that probably the ones who improved.

SPEAKER_00 16:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:46

Doing our pro player development at Mizzou. So essentially, guys who were training to go to the NFL, CFL, particularly NFL. Um, and it was a good class of guys, too. You know, there was a good class of guys there that were working out, and I decided I'm gonna do it. Um, and I thought, you know what, I legitimately have a shot here. If it's not receiver, then long snapper because that's what I did. So what ended up happening is I kept in contact with a couple of the scouts. Um, this is the Cliff Note version. There was a lot to it, but I kept in touch with the scouts. I made a couple of training camp lists. So uh, whether that was the Chiefs, the Raiders, the Browns, the then Redskins, they actually called me one day when I was just at work and were like, hey man, you working out? Yeah, okay, hey, make sure you keep training, whatever, all the good stuff, staying strong, because if somebody goes down to training camp, we're gonna be giving you a call. Same thing happened with a couple CFL teams, specifically the Ottawa Red Blacks, whenever they first became a franchise, probably 10 or so years ago. Um, but you know, in terms of stepping on that field, it it got close. It was like, okay, hey man, we're gonna call you. Uh somebody goes down, we'll have you on the list. What are you weighing now? Like what, like all the different things. So, I mean, I sat down with scouts, I sat down with coaches, I've I did all the good stuff, but ultimately my professional career took me to playing arena ball, okay, where I played two years. Um, it wasn't it really wasn't for me. Uh, I mean, I scored some touchdowns, I made some plays, I did all the good stuff. Uh, but you know, not that the fire was dying, but for me, it just wasn't football. It wasn't what I was used to. I wanted to be outside. I was tired of getting slammed into walls. I didn't want to play on this astroturf that felt like grandma's front porch and it hurt. And it I didn't, I didn't want to do that. And, you know, after I got uh the Browns had me send some film over, so did the Redskins. Um after I did that, you know, I kind of started seeing the writing on the wall um that it's kind of coming to a close. I did a couple showcases, little all-star game type situations um around that time as well. But, you know, nothing that ultimately got me through the doors of an NFL franchise. I never that didn't happen until I started coaching. So with with that, I mean, I almost got a little bit of a taste of it. Obviously, I had friends and former teammates that actually did play, I mean, made active rosters and I kept in touch with them. Man, I'm so proud of you. I still got videos on my phone, but that that was uh that was kind of it. But just the kind of the proximity to that dream, um, and being able to have scouts call me, have scouts emailing me and things like that, like that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_02 19:32

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 19:33

Um that does a lot for you, man. I'm I'm I'm telling you. So, you know, even being that close, just knowing that I gave pretty much everything I had, um I was okay with that at the end. I didn't hit that wall of depression that a lot of guys hit whenever it's over. So um, but yeah, that's that's as close as I got until I got to coaching, man.

SPEAKER_02 19:54

That's that's awesome, though. That's cool. But those those players that that did make the jump and made the leap, would would you and you played with some really good ones, you know, some some good studs, some good players. Yeah, yeah. But would you classify them as as coachable? You know, were the best players on your college team, were they the most coachable?

SPEAKER_01 20:15

A thousand percent. And even some guys even surprised me, like, man, I feel like that dude's not, I feel like that dude's kind of a menace. I don't know. Um, but you know, it's guys at other positions that I'm just kind of like, ah, I hope he's gonna be alright up there. But then all of a sudden it's like you talk to the guys who are actually in the room and they're like, no, like that dude was probably the hardest worker out of everybody. That dude asked a lot of questions. Yeah, he was stubborn, he was a clown, whatever. But that dude, like, there's a reason he's in the NFL and we're not. Like that it's guys like that that I love the fact that they can still just be themselves, but also and not robots and just not, you know, it for me, the guys who made it were even when Coach wasn't around, there were different things that they would be doing. Um, whether that's getting together on a Tuesday and Thursday and just running routes on air and going over different things or getting extra lifting in, or you know, having me come out like, hey man, here's this playbook from the Texans. I want you to quiz me. All right. You just be standing there. I'll go line up, just give me the long play name or whatever it is, and I'll go where I'm supposed to be. You tell me if I'm right, wrong, whatever. Okay. And then I'd be in on the process with them. So I without a doubt, I don't think there's a I don't think there's a single way that you can make it to a level, the highest level of football on the planet without being coachable in some way. Even if you kind of go astray, it's like, no, you're still using the things that you were taught and you've mastered them. And because you mastered them better than everybody else, that's why you're here. So I'd say yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 22:01

So, so from your playing days, did you start coaching immediately or after the playing days wrapped up?

SPEAKER_01 22:09

Kind of. And I think I mentioned whenever the Redskins had called me. Yeah. When Washington called me, I was in my office. So I was working here in Kansas City for the Jackson County Family Court. I was in my office when that phone call happened, but we also did a partnership with Police Athletic League. So working with the court, the police, you're kind of one and you're hand in hand. So we had a partnership with Kansas City Police Department, or in this sense, uh POW, Police Athletic League, where the coat the coaches are the cops. And you go in there, it's a pro-social activity. I got to bring coach, I got to bring kids from our facility to go practice there. And you know, I got a little bit too not lippy, but I got a little bit into it. Like, man, like, yeah, hey man, you need to be doing this. Like, listen to coach when he tells you to do that. They noticed I got to start coaching, and it just kind of became a revolving wheel, a natural flow snowball effect, if you will, into getting into coaching, and that was a 14U team. Okay. I did that for two seasons before I went on to middle school, then high school, then college. So it happened relatively quickly over a six a six-year period, but um it kind of snowballed into that, and it was right around the time that I was finishing up playing those indoor football seasons. Um so everything kind of just happened in sort of a sequence. It was kind of a conveyor belt of events that I didn't really have time to stop and just think.

SPEAKER_02 23:44

And and being on the the coaching side, kind of the opposite side, and playing days are over, and and now you're evaluating players instead of the one being evaluated. Has has coaching changed the way that you think about recruiting and the way that you look at players now that you're a coach?

SPEAKER_01 24:01

No, I I didn't really understand the recruiting process. Um, all I knew was it was fun to get pulled out of class every day. Somebody comes with that little pink slip, like, hey man, you got to go to the office. All right, I'll see y'all later. And then I'm in there just getting recruited, talking to these coaches from different schools at different levels, and you know, thinking now like it is so much more than just seeing a player run downfield and make plays. Um, I didn't I didn't really understand the importance of relationships between college coaches and high school coaches. Because beyond just the football part of things, like we're recruiting good people. We we legitimately look for things that you know you can't really teach on the football field. Okay, how does he treat the janitor? Is he getting good grades? Obviously, that's a big thing, specifically with an Ivy League school. Are there things that I need to know about? What's his family situation like? Does he have brothers and sisters? What are his parents like? Does he have a helicopter parent? Right? Like if I'm recruiting this kid, am I gonna have to deal with dad every single day? Is mama gonna be blowing me up every single day, saying, Why is my baby not playing? Like all these different things factor into it, but character is one big thing that goes into this whole thing, and there's only so long you can actually pull the wool over someone's eyes. So talking to a high school coach is essentially our way of saying, okay, I've talked to the kid, but I want to talk to you because I'm gonna be recruiting this kid. What do I need to know? What what are some of the good things? What what things should I watch out for? What what do you think? Here's our program. Do you think you, from your aspect, do you think that he would factor in well at a place like this? So I I think I had no clue how different recruiting would be as a coach. I thought it was just watch film, bring kid in, send an offer, and that's that's so far beyond not being the case.

SPEAKER_02 26:03

Yeah. Um just like everything in my first impressions are so important, you know, and and the way you come across right at the start is kind of important. Um, but can you tell from a first conversation how how someone's gonna be, how a player's gonna be?

SPEAKER_01 26:21

Yeah, and I think it has a lot to do with the conversation that you have. Like I can set the tone for the conversation, it's not necessarily just small talk, yeah. Um, but kind of as an example, even. I mean, if I'm bringing the kid in on a visit, obviously we've been having a conversation for a while. It's not just, hey, I want you to come in for a visit. Like, if if I don't think that this is gonna be a good fit, I'm not gonna waste your time, your resources, anything like that. But during a conversation, yeah, does he maintain eye contact? Little stuff like that. Like, does he talk with his hands? Is he kind of shy? Understanding because if I get this kid on the field, I can't, I'm I don't talk to every player the same. I know I can say this to this kid and it registers, but that kid over there is gonna take it as disrespect and shut down. You know, and it's just kind of a different cycle of communication, but just taking the coach hat off and just being a human being and setting the tone and not setting this kid up for failure, you know, that's just it. I mean, if there was ever a situation, a college coach has a conversation with the kid, he goes back home, high school coach is like, man, how'd how'd that conversation go with Coach T D? I mean, I don't know. I we didn't really talk about much. He just kind of asked how I was. That's a me issue. You know what I mean? I'm not gonna rely on a 16 to 18-year-old kid to set the tone for a conversation that I hold the keys to at the end of the day. So, you know, you can find out a lot in that first conversation in terms of what he values and what he's been taught and what he's willing to learn.

SPEAKER_02 27:55

I was gonna ask about body language and parents, and you and you kind of touched on that a little bit already.

SPEAKER_01 28:02

A little bit.

SPEAKER_02 28:03

Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, how much does body language play and how much does it matter?

SPEAKER_01 28:07

Uh, I mean, we're talking about kids here. You know, I'm I'm not, you know, if I mean if a kid's throwing up gang signs and doing all this other stuff, and then like it's like it's like, okay, all right, pipe down. But in terms of actual body language, I mean, the body language I'm looking for is coming off film. I want to know what whenever I'm looking at film, like, are you the kid who gets upset because you didn't get the football, or are you over here cussing out your coach? Are you pouting when things go wrong? And are you hyping up your teammates? Like all those different things. Are you kind of slouching? Like, what I want to know what that means. Are you a little bit too comfortable when a coach is offering you an opportunity? Are you kind of slouched in the chair, doing this, leaning on your hand? Are you are you in tune with the conversation? Are we making eye contact? It like there's different ways to be able to tell, but if if you're just big man on campus and that's your whole idea, like I think you're missing the point of what college athletics is supposed to be. Yeah, so obviously I need to know if you're gonna be a good fit, but in terms of making you into a better man than when I found you, there's grace, but there's also things that per the level that you're going, there's things you're gonna be dealing with differently at the division one level than you are division two, division three. A lot more exposure, a lot more different that can you handle that right off the bat, yeah. Because I mean, in terms of explaining things to you, you know, your parents are your first teachers. I hope you learned something there because I'm not necessarily here to be dad.

SPEAKER_00 29:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:37

Relatively speaking, because people think I just sit around blowing a whistle and having fun throwing a football around all day. As a coach, man, your dad, your counselor, your big brother, your football coach, your academic advisor, your professor. Like there's all these different things that people don't know, but body language, there's things about that that can be taught. And again, that goes back to what I said about being mentally in tune, mentally tough.

SPEAKER_02 30:02

Yeah, yep, absolutely. Yeah. And and and speaking of the dad and you know, the parents, um, what kind of role do they play? And what what kind of, you know, you mentioned helicopter parents, you're not looking for that, but kind of what are you looking for when it comes to the parents?

SPEAKER_01 30:18

First and foremost, whenever I'm recruiting a kid, whenever we're having a conversation, I'll say, hey, by the end of the conversation, I'll say, hey, make sure your mom, your dad, your grandparents, guardian, whoever have my information because they're gonna be need eat gonna need to be in on this conversation too. Um, because the kids are gonna have different questions than the parents. Kids want to know where I'm at on the depth chart, what kind of gear we have. Are we Nike? Are we Adidas, Under Armour? Like they're gonna want to know where they are on the depth chart. A lot of parents, mostly every parent, is gonna have different conversations. Okay, how's he gonna be eaten? Is he gonna be taken care of? Hey, I heard that this happened on campus. Is my son gonna be safe? What about the demographics? There's not a lot of black kids there. Should I be worried about that? Tell me how you as a black coach handle that. I like coaches, or sorry, I like parents who are able to ask tough questions. Um, and I think as a coach, you have to be able to answer those, whether that's from the kid or from the parents. But again, parents are gonna have a lot different questions. Yeah, they'll get to the football stuff later. But when it comes to parents, that it that I won't say that it's make or break, but there are parents out there who can break their son's opportunity at the next level. If I'm trying to get a hold of you to get a hold of just who you are, figure out who you are apart from dad when mom's not around. And I can't do that because the only thing that I hear is just from mom. I've got 87 texts from mom, 90 from dad. Um, that gets to be a little bit frustrating. I want to be like I it is my job to take care of your son. You know what I mean? And some parents can't let go of that. Some parents want to come and be the coach. And it's just like I will tell parents flat out. I've told parents flat out whenever I was coaching middle school and high school. I'm not gonna have the conversation with you about playing time. I'm not. Yeah, if you're concerned while little Johnny and little Darius are not playing, ask them because I promise it's not a surprise to them. I've had the conversation with them for a while before we started playing these games. So if there's something that you are sitting here picking out wrong with the guys who are playing, oh well, the guy in front of them keeps dropping passes. Why do you think little Johnny or little Darius aren't number one right now?

SPEAKER_00 32:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:37

Well, this guy's not as fast. Okay, well, he catches the ball, he runs routes a little bit better. Or like all the different things that, or hey, I'm not gonna play him while he's still got a de-avage. Like little things like that. It's a scenario where, you know, once you get to the college level, you have to be able to let go just a little bit. That's the worst thing, whether they're moving away from home, but understanding like these are grown man activities now. Like they they've got to learn these things, and I would hope to some degree, even just on a little level, that they've experienced a little bit of struggle, whether that's bad grades, not necessarily a living situation that happens a lot, but some sort of struggle much sooner than later. Because am I gonna have to parent this kid while he's here? Or is it a situation where he's been able to see a little bit of struggle and knows how to handle himself in tough situations? Or is it a situation where I this is one of my favorites, where it's kid, his guardian is grandma or something, and grandma doesn't say much. But when grandma talks, it's the end of the world for you. I don't like with if it's a situation where it's like, man, look, uh Darius, I've had 15 conversations with you about your grades. You're on the cusp right now, but I need you to understand if I have to call your grandma, she's who you gotta worry about. Like, I'm uh I'm I'm just I'm throwing it out there for you right now, my man. I like I like those partnerships. Like those parents, we have one at William Jewell, where I just left, who would always call. How's he doing? Is he good in class? I saw he was hurt again. Tell his butt to call. Matter of fact, I'll talk to you later, coach. I'm gonna call him, okay? Yeah, yes, ma'am. Uh like that's fine. But these kids, I dare I say, they don't need their parents, they don't need an extra agent nowadays. You know what I mean? Like, there's things that they're gonna have to figure out. There's things that, you know, maybe you've always had the lawn mowed for you. Well, now I need you to mow the lawn and learn how to weedy. So little things like that. But parents do play a vital role in their kids' success overall. It's just understanding when you get to college, there's things you gotta learn at this point.

SPEAKER_02 35:02

Yep. And speaking of college and getting there, um, let's talk a little bit about coaching today's athletes.

SPEAKER_01 35:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:11

You know, you you constantly hear the athletes are described as differently than previous generations, you know, you hear social media get thrown in there, you hear the me first, and then there's no we, whatever. But but from your experience, what's actually true about today's athletes and what's really misunderstood about today's athletes?

SPEAKER_01 35:32

I I think the biggest misunderstanding is that it's their fault. Um I think it's us in terms of coaches or people in charge at the top. I think we're the one I think we've given in to a lot of things that we actually allow. Things that we wouldn't have allowed back in the day. Yes, times gotta change. Excuse me. I know times have to change. We've got to be able to adapt, but basic decency, basic understanding of how to have a conversation, or not this transactional sort of attitude. I think commitment a lot of times has been replaced with what do I get from it. So without having contracts or things like that here at the NCAA level, understanding that you know, a lot of things are happening right now with transfer portal and NIL, and there's a lot of people out there who have fallen victim to okay, if you look good, they'll come find you. Well, there's a lot that goes into looking good, more so than just all the different headbands and all the different things you got, like armbands, whatever. I said, hey, whatever, uh, all the different gear that you're wearing, but also understanding, you know, I have an issue personally, and this is just me. If I'm offering you the opportunity to continue playing the best sport on the planet, get a high-class education, nothing above it, I have a problem with not taking it as disrespect when you say, okay, but how much money can you give me?

SPEAKER_00 37:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:04

Um, and I don't deal with that right now. I don't, we don't deal with that typically at the Ivy League level, but I hear a lot of coaches saying it, and a lot of coaches have kind of had to accept it because there's not really a ton of regulation around it. Um, and and don't get me wrong, I love the fact that players can get paid to play. I do. Like I said, it's a full-time job, man. You know what I'm saying? It is you know, that might just deserve a wage or two. Um, I have no issue with that whatsoever. To regulate that, though, would be essential. Because right now, my fear is that we're teaching a lot of these kids, whether we're saying it or not, we're teaching a lot of these kids to say, you know what, if I don't like something, I'm just gonna leave. I'm not gonna deal with it, I'm just gonna go find somewhere else uh that's gonna pay me more, and it's just gonna be that easy. Failing to realize you can't do that with the job once you're done with this. Football's gonna end one day. Football's there to teach you how, a really fun way to teach you how to handle life in general. And one day, whenever you get a real big boy job, say you even play in the NFL for 15 years or whatever, you're gonna have a big boy job potentially. If you're in the league for 15 years, shoot, you can just do whatever you want. Hopefully, you saved your money.

SPEAKER_00 38:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:21

Um, but to say, you know what, I don't like this job, I'm just gonna quit and I'm gonna see who else wants me. It's not a very realistic way about going about life. It's just not. Um, and it's just kind of one of those things that I wonder where we went wrong in terms of allowing this to get to where it's been and not have any parameters. There's really no, I mean, I guess the downfall of the transfer portal right now is if you get lost in the trend, is that you could get lost in the transfer portal. Yeah, if there's you and 3,000 other guys at your position, you better stand out, dude, or you better know one of those coaches that used to recruit you. Because if not, you're gonna get lost. And then what?

SPEAKER_00 39:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:05

So, you know, I I think, yes, the social media age and things like that. I mean, people have access to having you on camera, they get access to your life as much as you want to put out on the internet, and it's fun to look flashy, it's fun to make cool dances and videos, it's fun to have your face up. You might get paid for it. But I think with this new age should come some sort of old school restriction. Understanding that you have to have boundaries, that you have to be able to have some wherewithal that these things aren't just gonna be given to you. Um, some things that some things you're gonna have to work for. Yeah, you know, and I don't I don't know if we're setting the best tone for this generation right now. Now, there's still some really good football being played. There's still some really good football players out there that still get lost in the transfer portal. But, you know, I I put myself in their position because I social media was just becoming a thing when I bec when I got to college. Facebook just came out. But if I had the opportunity sitting right in front of me for somebody to say, here's $500,000 to take my family out of a situation that I didn't want them to be in, could I say that that's not bigger than me now? You know what I mean? Like so that's kind of the dichotomy there that they're dealing with. So I think we need to do a better job of framing this experience for these kids because I I don't know of any other better experience other than this, or becoming a father, a husband, um, than this. So to speak on them, I don't think it's a lot of their fault, if I'm honest.

SPEAKER_02 40:47

Yeah. And and and speaking of them, them being the players, uh-huh, how how do you earn trust from today's players? Because there is the transfer portal, and it seems like there's a lot of, along with that, along with the portal of players leaving, it seems like there's a lot of coaches leaving, and it seems like there's a lot of leaving in college these days, you know. How are you earning trust of the players?

SPEAKER_01 41:09

Well, uh, one thing that you can't fake is commitment. You know, you can't fake effort to a degree like we know when you're going through the motions, but if a kid is able to come through and start to trust you, um I've seen kids leave Division I programs and come play for us when I was at the University of Central Missouri. Literally, DK Metcalf's old roommate was one of our guys, one of our receivers at UCM. And it was because of the coaches. You know, they had a different experience when they came and met us. It wasn't just big old dog and pony show. Like we legitimately sat down, had conversations with them, and it wasn't just football related. Like it wasn't one of those, hey, how are we gonna defeat cover two in this situation? What would you do? It's like, no, dude, like come walk with me, come talk to me. All right, we're gonna, and it's putting them in situations where they can compete right there. Bowling or whatever. Like, okay, I want to see how I kind of want to see how he does here. Let's just watch him compete against those guys for a little bit. Or just be in a listening ear. Or one of those, I guess one of my favorites, whenever it's like, hey, mom, dad, grandma, you guys go over here, talk to the head coach real quick. All right, we're gonna talk to you about kind of the meal plans, living situation, let you guys ask anything you want away from your kid. And then we get the kids over, and it's just like, okay, what what what's really important to you when it comes to making the decision? Like your mom's not here, your dad's not here. My listen, you're the player, I'm I'm the coach. What is it that, I mean, like I said, they're not here. Talk to me. That's what gets kids to trust you. And when it comes to being able to earn that respect from those players, it's typically when they have a relationship like that with you. I mean, probably people ask me all the time, and I apologize if I'm jumping forward, people ask me all the time, what's the best, the greatest coaching achievement that you've had? And we've won conference championships, and I've gotten to become a Division I coach, and all the different things, man. But there was a kid that invited me to walk with him at his senior day. Oh awesome, you know, like with him, his fiance, his parents, his brother. And then he invited me to his wedding. Like it's it's like that was probably the best part about it. Like it, I feel like I'm wasting my time and everyone else's if the only thing I'm known for is just being a coach. Yeah, and I know for me, even with the age of football and players and kids changing, the one constant thing that these kids have is they want to be coached. They want to be molded, they want to have an older male or a coach take the time to actually sit down and get to know them. Them talk to them like a person. Don't talk to them like everyone else that always wants something, an autograph or anything like that. But I find that even with everything changing, that right there is kind of what makes the kids stay, come to the program, want to do good. Like that, that I find that that's probably the answer. I don't think that's changed along with what's been going on as of late.

SPEAKER_02 44:26

Nice, good stuff. Knowing that the portal's out there, you know, and players might leave, you know. Does it change the way you handle mistakes and how do you balance accountability with encouragement, you know, and kind of is there a different approach to the way you deal with players today's game?

SPEAKER_01 44:47

Yeah, and again, I mean it's kind of a case-by-case basis. Like it's not gonna be the same. Obviously, we've got rules and standards. This is what your grades need to be. You know, you have to pass this many hours every semester, like up, there's standards, but um, you know, there's also that other part where it's like some kids, you know, benefit more from that tough love. Um, but also helping them understand. It's like whenever you got to used to get whoopings and mom or dad or somebody sat there and was just, you know, afterwards and pulled you in close and said, here's why. Like, I love you, but understand, like you gotta like that this isn't how things can go, not moving forward. So, you know, I I think uh for me, I don't think that's really changed. I think what they also want is consistency, yeah, and they know that if they can't do it, neither can those guys. Or, you know, it's kind of that thing where it's like they're always watching you. You always say we're always evaluating, but they're always evaluating us as coaches, too. So understanding that you know, you can't be consistent with one area and completely irresponsible with the other, or give this kid favors or you know, treatment or anything like that. So I think that's probably the best way I could answer that question for you.

SPEAKER_02 46:06

Okay. Nice. Also, along those lines, when looking at today's athletes, um, how do you create the the coachable culture and how do you create the the place where people want feedback instead of fearing feedback?

SPEAKER_01 46:24

One big thing that I discovered very quick is for one, they can't be afraid to make mistakes. You know, if they're always getting benched or tossed out because they've always made mistakes, they drop a pass or something, it's like, okay, well, I I get that, but I'm also gonna give you the opportunity to fix it. Yes, cool, that happened. It's a dot on the record. But at the end of the day, understanding that, yes, in crunch time you might not get another chance to make the play that you just had the chance to make. But we're at practice right now. This is where you're supposed to mess up. Feel empowered to make a mistake going 100 miles an hour, right? But for me, I think, and I'm trying to word this, um I'm trying to word this correctly. I don't I'm I I'm just being as real as possible. I don't want to be politically correct. Um, I I think from what I've learned is just from an accountability standpoint, if a coach has a standard, whether you as a coach, the head coach I mean, whether you as an assistant coach or whatever, agree with it or not, that's how you move. If the coach says, hey, this is how we play, this is what we do, this is what we don't do, this is what we say, this is what we don't say, understanding that if coach says, I'm not, I don't want a culture of guys around here who are cussing people out all the time. And all the if coaches consistently cussing people out while saying that, you're losing credibility. And the accountability piece shouldn't be feared. Like, coach, like you just cuss me out in front of everybody. Like, they have to be empowered to have those conversations. But it's like, you know, coach, respectfully, like you just cuss me out in front of everybody, and you've been telling us like we're not supposed to do that. Um, you know, well within reason, you know, some coaches are just like, hey, this is the law, right? Um, but understanding that in some ways it's kind of a dictatorship, but it's a relationship that I'm pursuing as a coach. I didn't sign up just to win games, even though this is a results-based business. That's how they judge you on Saturdays. Um But understanding that we have to move as coaches, as the leaders, from an organizational standpoint, having things ready for the guys, knowing, hey, before I walk in the room, this is what I have to have prepared, or it looks like I don't have any credibility. Um essentially then allowing them to mess up and being able to model the behaviors and the things that we are portraying for them and helping them understand why. So I think for me, setting those values and adhering to those values is kind of the foundational level that you can build from when it comes to answering this. But I I think I've seen from the very beginning that there shouldn't be a culture just based on fear.

SPEAKER_02 49:34

Nice. I love it. Love the answer. Awesome. So on this on this podcast, we always say coachability doesn't end when the sport ends, you know, it's a it's a life skill, not a sport skill. And and knowing that, you know, your your playing days are long gone, you're lucky enough you're still in the sport, you know, you're still coaching, still around players, still around football. But what has football as a as a player taught you when it comes to leadership?

SPEAKER_01 50:01

It's funny how you expect a lot of the whether you're in football or not, it's funny how you expect the things that you were expected of you. Um, everything from timeliness to how things are done, how how your day is structured. It's it's funny how now you almost expect those things, but now you don't have a coach to tell you. You know, now it's like, okay, no, you have to do it. You're the one who has to set the tone for your son's schedule and your daughter's schedule and your work schedule. Like you, you have to do that now. And you kind of have to hit that point where you kind of think back, like, okay, I want, you know what, I want my life to look this way. This is how I'm gonna structure it that way. I have ample amount of time to sit down, decompress at the end of the day, play with my kids, and just be, you know. Um I think as a player, you got so used to a routine, uh, and a routine that worked because we saw a ton of success for it from it. Um, but you get so used to a routine of things that honestly, man, like you value that. Like, like I said, in the same way that these kids value being coached, being taught to, I think we, once we leave the game, once we're done playing, just subconsciously start finding different ways to put ourselves in routines or put our kids through those same things, or not to relive it, but just to kind of give us that euphoric, just kind of, okay, like I I feel good in this place wherever, whenever I can control, whether I can control it or not, where I can kind of control the things that are happening around me. But it starts with me. So I think as a player, it's so ingrained in you, man, that you you just keep you almost just seek it. You know what I mean? Like you almost just run towards accountability. You run toward, well, not all the time. That that that's a different one, but but you always you you want to run to structure, you want to run to a system that works, you always kind of reference it. Um you never really lose it, man, if I'm honest.

SPEAKER_02 52:12

Awesome. Yeah, agree. Yeah. Okay, so uh coaching's been around a while. You know, you talked about middle school, high school, and and now college. Um, years down the road, let's say you run into some former players, and you know, they might forget the scores of games, they might forget the great plays they made or the great calls that you make to make them make that great play, you know. But what's one thing you hope they never forget about the relationship and the connection that you have to them?

SPEAKER_01 52:45

I I just hope they never forget the presence that I had when it came to you know, the good, you know, and I guess in just their development and the way that they've learned. I hope they never forget the relationship we had. I hope they never forget, because me personally, like some of the coaches I mentioned, like I still sample a lot of the different things that they say they do. Um, even the big old straw hat I wear, my receiver coach back in high school, Coach Merrill. Like, I rock that thing all the time.

SPEAKER_02 53:13

Nice.

SPEAKER_01 53:14

Um I I just I hope they never forget the attention to detail I had towards them becoming the men that they're supposed to be, that they're created to be. I hope they never I mean, I hope they never forget the success that they had, or if we didn't have as much success as they want, I hope they honestly never forget, you know, that one-on-one conversation that made them turn away from what they weren't supposed to be doing. That, you know, shoot, I've had to hold some of them, literally, you know, that one of them, his father, his father had passed. And everybody kind of kind of ran to me, like, hey man, I think you should check on him. And I did, and I just held him there and just let him cry. Um, I I hope they never forget just beyond the X's and no's, but just the relationship and I guess how they were able to use that over the years down the road. Um, it might be a funny story. Hey coach, that thing you said, I say that to my kids now. Or um, you know, I I just hope that that's it. I hope that that they don't dwell on anything negative or they feel like they were always on the back burner. I feel I I hope they understand that it wasn't just about X's and O's. You know what I mean? I think I I feel like at the heart level, that's where you make the most impact in this thing. So I I hope that's what they get from this.

SPEAKER_02 54:48

Absolutely. Yeah, it's it's the relationships, it's the bonds you build, and kind of they they last forever. So that's that's awesome. And uh, I think that's a great way to end this interview. Bill, my brother, is right on. He said, I gotta meet you, I gotta talk to you. He said, You're gonna love the conversation. This guy is amazing, he's awesome. And Bill, Bill nailed it with you.

SPEAKER_01 55:09

So this was appreciated, man.

SPEAKER_02 55:12

You bet, man. But yeah, like I said, that was a great way to end the show. It was awesome, and that's what this podcast is all about. Whether you're a student, athlete, parent, business owner, or someone early in your career, every opportunity starts with a willingness to learn. Thank you for joining us on the Coachable Players. If you enjoyed the conversation, subscribe, share, reach out to Terry. He's an awesome guy. You're gonna love the conversation, he's amazing. Remember, talent might get you noticed, but coachability determines how far you will go. Thank you for listening. Thanks, Terry.

SPEAKER_01 55:48

Thank you, man.

SPEAKER_02 55:50

Awesome.