#239 - The Messy Reality of Building Something New

Building something from scratch sounds exciting.

And it is.

But it's also messy. It's a lot of figuring things out as you go. It's asking questions no one around you has the answers to. It's making mistakes, learning from them, and deciding to keep going anyway.

This week, I'm sitting down with two of my friends and now business partners, Cedric Yau and Rebecca Burton Yau, the founders of Bezier New York.

What started as a simple question about why leggings don't actually fit most women has grown into something much bigger than either of us imagined.

In this episode, you'll hear about:

•  How one question turned into an entirely new business 
•  Why starting before you're "ready" might be the best decision you ever make 
•  The surprising role AI plays behind the scenes 
•  What it's really like building a company as husband and wife 
•  Why constructive feedback is one of the greatest gifts you can receive 
•  How they're rethinking the future of fashion one pair of leggings at a time 

If you've been sitting on an idea, waiting until everything is perfect before you begin, I hope this conversation reminds you that sometimes you just have to take the first step.

Chapters

01:21 Meet Cedric & Becca

03:02 Where Bezier began

06:00 AI meets fashion

09:50 Why custom fit matters

13:05 Growing through relationships

15:07 The future of custom clothing

18:45 Starting before you're ready

20:15 Entrepreneurship as a couple

22:15 Designing the perfect fabric

24:10 Constructive feedback vs compliments

28:45 Their thoughts on AI

36:40 What success really means

40:55 Rapid-fire questions

44:35 Final encouragement

BEZIER NY WEBSITE: https://bezierny.com/

@salishathomas @thesalishashow, www.thesalishashow.com

Many thanks to Gotham Network in NYC, TyNia Brandon for writing and laying vocals down for the updated theme song and Big Red Studios for the intro video wherever you watch the latest season of The Salisha Show!

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:11

What does it really look like to build your dream life while you're living it? One day I'm on stage singing with Hugh Jackman at 36 weeks pregnant, just trying not to give birth in Oklahoma. And the next, I'm having real conversations about love, loss, career pivots, and becoming someone I didn't even know I could be. Because this show isn't just about Broadway, it's about the moments that change you, the risks you take, the dreams you almost talk yourself out of, the strength you don't realize you have until life asks you to use it. If you've ever felt like you're in between chapters or stepping into something new, you're not alone. You're just getting started. This is the Silicia Show, where Broadway meets culture and your real life becomes the main event. Hello. And welcome or welcome back to another episode of The Silicia Show. You guys, my heart is so full. I'm s it's so full. I've been back and forth from California to New York City. And so to be able to record here in person with my friends and now business partners, what? Um, but with my friends is a really big deal that I don't take for granted. We're here at the gorgeous uh Gotham Production Studios here in Midtown Manhattan. And thank you, Gotham Network, and thank you, Carla, for probably being the one to edit this episode. And thank you to my listeners for and viewers for coming back and watching. I'm so so excited to introduce to you today who I have with me today. So let's see here. We've got a doctor and an engineer coming together with an actor to build something out of the box. A fashion brand from scratch in real time while living very full lives. Um, we're talking about risk, reinvention, and partnership and what it what it looks like to build something without a roadmap. Um, I would love for you to please give a warm welcome for two of my friends and business partners, the founders of a new leggings brand called Bezier, New York. We've got Cedric Yao and Rebecca Burton Yao. You guys, welcome to the show! Thanks for having us. I am so happy that we're here. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:34

It's very exciting.

SPEAKER_02 2:35

And people are getting the pants. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 2:36

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 2:37

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:38

And they're like 42 pairs that are like almost sewn and like being sent to us. So it's gonna double the number of people who have them now. The new Gen twos.

SPEAKER_03 2:45

Okay. Good feedback. We're getting I'm wearing mine right now. Oh yeah. I I kind of was like, maybe I should have dressed up more, but I'm like, this is what I live in. This is like my day-to-day, and so I'm I'm wearing them now.

SPEAKER_02 2:55

I'm like, I almost was like, should I tell them what to wear? I was like, no, if you come in fitness wear, like that's literally our brand. And by ours, I mean you guys are the founders, the the geniuses behind it. You are the ones, and you just have brought me on to like help with the marketing and the partnership and all the that. You are building for those of you who have no freaking idea what we are talking about. It's called Bezier New York. You're gonna see it. Be easy I R. And it's a leggings company built from literally, you started it in your home. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:31

Started with an idea that I Cedric had the idea. I thought he was crazy. He didn't know how to sew. Like, how did we get there? How did we get there? And yeah, he uh Cedric Cedric was like, hey, like, why is it that so many leggings are are not flattering, don't fit people well. And I was like, dude, this is this is women's fashion. Like people assume that women are all the exact same shape, but just different like expansions of that shape. And it's not true. And I'm lucky, like a lot of things fit me because I'm kind of just average, average height, average shape. But like we have friends that are super tall, super short, they things were the wrong length on them, people who are curvier have problems with like you know, waistband, yes, discomfort, rolling down. Yes. And so Cedric was like, Yeah, why can't we just make leggings that fit the person? Yeah, okay, and so with that that's a nice naive question, right?

SPEAKER_00 4:22

Yeah, I can't two and a half years later, we're still trying to figure that out.

SPEAKER_03 4:25

I was also like, if it's just that easy a problem, like I think the big companies would have figured it out by now.

SPEAKER_02 4:31

But but you're on to something. So it's a new process. Like people who I've been texting, they're like, oh yeah, go ahead. I'm usually a size four or six, send it to this address. I'm like, oh no, actually, this is a different type of process. I'll send you the link, they'll ask you for two photos front and side, and that might change. It might become a video, a five-second video down the line, or sooner than later. And then the AI technology snags.

SPEAKER_00 4:55

Yeah. So it's like, yeah, I liken it to like the old like carnival, like, guess your weight. I will guess your weight. Yeah, it's like guess, you know, just looking at you know, and then and maybe it will be accurate, maybe won't. Um, but yeah, uh with um with like AI-inspired technologies, we can now do that on I think we're using um 73 degrees now. So it turns out that like there are 45 shape parameters and I think another 28 scale parameters.

SPEAKER_02 5:23

I don't know what any of that means actually.

SPEAKER_00 5:25

Yeah, but what we say is that we we can we we divide we can break up the entire population into like 73 dimensions. It's uh not just 73 sizes, but dimensions. So you can have like we can make more than like there are more possibilities of people than there are people on Earth.

SPEAKER_02 5:42

Okay. Oh, oh.

SPEAKER_00 5:43

Yeah, so we can make a unique 73 dimensions. 73 dimensions of fit.

SPEAKER_02 5:48

So we're used to like working in like one.

SPEAKER_00 5:51

Like you have zero, two, four, six, eight, all the way up to twenty size, yeah, eleven sizes. And like I think the major brands have decided that all women uh can fit into eleven sizes.

SPEAKER_02 6:04

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 6:04

Yeah, and we figure that there we can do a lot better now.

SPEAKER_02 6:07

And that's exactly what you have been doing. So the for those of you who have not tried this yet, it you take a photo, it might be a video down the line, it's ever-changing. He's like the brains behind the tech of it all, which is why I might have to stop him in the middle of what he's saying because he speaks in like code.

SPEAKER_03 6:25

And like at this level, I'm like, yeah, I don't know what to do. Like AI. Yeah. Uh-huh. Don't worry, don't worry. Me too. Girl, me too.

unknown 6:32

Right?

SPEAKER_02 6:32

Okay. So, but simplify what Cedric was talking about. We you it get the AI pulls your measurements from the photo, or down the line, it might be a video, pulls your measurements, so you don't have to s guess what size you are. And then the tech sends the the technology, sends the measurements, and and we build a pair of pants.

SPEAKER_03 6:54

Like it creates a 3D model of your shape. So it's not even from the model, we create a pattern for leggings. Like the OG plan, like back at the beginning when we were like, hey, let's we're gonna do this, we gotta learn how to sew. Is we went to like the New York sewing center. We had like a private lesson.

SPEAKER_00 7:09

It's down the street on 39.

SPEAKER_03 7:10

Yeah, down the street, down the street. So cool. This lovely woman Emily was trying to teach us how to sew in the garment district. In the garment district. In the garment district. But also she was trying to teach us how to create a pattern like the origin, you know, the OG way, right? And that's basically tape measure, take, take all the different measurements in seam at my own waist. Yeah. And she's sitting there, she's a professional, she's helping me do this. And it still took what, like 45 minutes. 45 minutes and it had so much potential for user error. Wow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:37

Because originally we were like, oh, we'll just mail people a tape measure, and then we'll just ask them to get their measurements.

SPEAKER_03 7:41

And just ask them to get their measurements and then we'll just user error. Like create a pattern based on traditional like methods. And then Cedric came across, you know, uh a sort of a third-party technology that could create a 3D model instead. And we're like, oh, that that seems so much less prone to error. Yes. But then Cedric being, you know, Cedric. Cedric being Cedric. Being like the technologic genius that he is, we can do it better. Figure out how to create a 2D pattern from a 3D model, which was like a whole math engineering technology problem that took a minute to figure out. Because it's like reverse, right? Instead of going from a body to a 2D pattern to a 3D product, he had to go from like a body to a 3D model to a 2D pattern to a 3D product. Like, yeah, it yeah, it took a minute. It kid. It took a minute. It literally can't. Um but in the meantime, while Cedric was figuring like solving that problem, we were like getting companies in China to send us custom fabric. Like it was, it was so crazy how much was happening at the same time. And I was like, we don't even know if we can make a product, you know? Like, it's like why are we why are we talking about like global shipping logistics? Okay, well, like you're also my current thespian.

SPEAKER_02 8:46

So you guys know a little bit about theater, how it's like, all right, we're gonna sell a show before we've even cast it. So it kind of feels like that a little bit. Sure. Like, all right, we're gonna make this happen even though we have no idea what we're doing yet.

SPEAKER_03 9:02

Yeah, or if it'll work. If it'll even work. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:05

But it is working. It is working.

SPEAKER_03 9:06

Like we finally got to the point where because my I mean, my I was thinking more linear. I'm not as you're so locked. He's big picture, and I'm like small pitcher. Okay. Like, like detail. I'm you know dreamer. And you're the dreamer. But I'm thinking like, okay, let's figure out how to do this for me. And once we perfect it for me, then we can reach out to a few of our friends that have very different shapes than I do. Then we'll do it for them. Yes. But he's kind of like started doing it for them even before it was like perfect for me, and like, and then thinking about all this like big picture stuff, you know. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 9:37

Well, in my head, like you have to make everything work, otherwise nothing works.

unknown 9:40

Right.

SPEAKER_00 9:41

Because like, if we originally when I thought about this, I thought it was just gonna be like a $200 legging. That it was gonna be like, you know, it was like at one point I think you said even more than one.

SPEAKER_03 9:49

And I was like, yeah, no, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 9:50

Yeah, you're like, no, no one's gonna pay pay that much.

SPEAKER_03 9:52

$200 for a legging, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:53

Yeah, or uh Michi charges that. Now they have creative designs. But we were like, okay, well, if we did custom, could we charge more? And then uh and then once I like worked out all the supply chains that was like, no, I think we can actually match. Uh so we're uh we can match or beat um like the standard pricing that you see for like the premium brands like Lulu, Aloe, Voar.

SPEAKER_02 10:17

Okay, so you say this. The first pair that you gave me, I was like, oh, these are nice. Yeah, I didn't think much of it. I was like, these are nice. Then you made me a second pair, and I was like, these are great, they're really freaking great, and they made me feel good, like about myself. There's so many like body dysmorphia or like whatever the world is telling us how to feel about our bodies, and with this, it's not about trying to fit into a size, but like we said, like you guys said, it's about this product fitting around what you've already got to work with. It's not how can you suck in or like be some you're not trying to fit into a number. It's literally built around you, and so it became quickly my favorite pair of pants, more favorite than any of my Lulus that I've spent on an arm and a leg for like it's just it was custom for me. Love the fabric, all of the things. And so now we're like, you're making this for other people, and it's so exciting for me to like text all my friends and be like, hey, we're in beta. Yeah, would you like to try these? And people are wearing them and trying them.

SPEAKER_03 11:27

Yeah, generally we're getting really good feedback.

SPEAKER_00 11:30

Yeah, yeah, either we get good feedback or we get constructive feedback. Well, I'm begging people for negative constructive feet, yeah, because that there are a few things that we discovered. Like, there were assumptions that I made that said that, okay, uh the original models are coming back all had the same like leg to height ratios, and that's wrong. So I had a correction, I was like, okay, well, you know, we can see in the photo um what uh what the person's leg uh percentages uh basically to their tor uh to their whole torso or their height. So I was trying to make adjustments based on that. But that assumes that you have good photos coming in. And there are people who are like putting their phones down and shooting up.

SPEAKER_02 12:05

Right. Different and also different generations of who's using the who's using the technology. Like you've got Gen Z who was like, ah, I was born on a phone. Right. And then you've got older people who were like, wait, how do I use the camera?

SPEAKER_00 12:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:19

How do I get to the camera? And then everything in between.

SPEAKER_00 12:22

Right. And so once I once we discovered that, I think um after the first round, uh the feedback was coming back. I was like, okay, we can't we can't use that uh 2D photo. Uh and so it went back and you know discovered that there's uh bone adjustments that we could use uh inside the model, inside this AI model. Uh and so we use that, and that's now like our current like version 2.1 um pamp. Okay. Yeah, and so that's that's what's going on in this uh in the new 42 leggings that are coming from the factory.

SPEAKER_02 12:51

Okay, it it's it's it's rolling. We're like starting to like slowly get the word out there, and and so you've brought me on as like marketing. I don't know what my title is, but I'm helping get the word out.

SPEAKER_03 13:04

Social media. We're both like kind of social media like.

SPEAKER_02 13:07

So here's I know we're not like in an actual meeting right now, but who cares? We can do whatever we want in this movie, right? Production meeting time. I was kind of thinking, I know I'm in charge of the social media, but how I like run my stuff when it comes to cabarets or anything like that, before I blast it on the internet, I like to hit people up one by one personally. So by the time they see it online, it's like a reminder. It's not, oh, I saw this thing online, let me go book it. Because I'm realizing it's really hard to get people to buy tickets to close a deal when they just see there's so much scrolling. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And a lot of outreach is so much it once it feels personal, I feel like it goes much further. And this week, I mean, we get a freaking text being like, Uma Thurman wants a pair of your legs. It kind of clicked in my head. Wait a minute, hold on. How was Facebook built? It wasn't please try our platform. It was you gotta go to an Ivy League school and you have to know about this from a friend. And if you aren't in the circle, you don't get to join. That's how Gmail was too, right? Yeah. Really? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:24

I remember I was like, when Gmail started, you have to be invited.

SPEAKER_02 14:29

So I'm like, okay, if you're listening to this show, good on you. Thank you for being a loyal listener and supporter of the Silicia show, formerly Black Hair and the B Big Leagues. And if you're a friend of ours, like if you know somebody, maybe that is where we're starting. I think I will be utilizing social media eventually. Yeah. But right now More like personal connection. Yeah. Let's see how far we can get with it just being our Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:57

Our friend uh Deborah Fenker is always like, You're still doing the free deal. You always say it's like, it's like, why are you still doing the free deal? We're like, it's only friends and family. And it's like Friends right now. Yeah. And it's like, I don't advertise it, but it's like, yeah, you submit a photo and then you get invited for a free pair. So it's like everyone right now. Um, I I don't know when this show is actually going up, but I anticipate that when it goes up, you know, we'll you know, in it'll either be free, or we'll say if you use like code Silicia, you get free. Something. Yeah, first.

SPEAKER_02 15:23

Unless if you're finding this episode in 10 years, then sorry, it's probably full price, no. But as of right now, it's like if you know somebody with the link or with the code, yeah, because we're still learning how do we eliminate the friction of people wanting to submit a photo. I've encountered a lot of people who were like, who's gonna see this photo? Oh, I'm not skinny yet, or I have 10 more pounds to lose. Right now. So we're trying to figure out because I really feel, and I don't know about you guys, your vision for the future of this, but I kind of feel like, hello, the future is custom, the future is couture. Like, I wanna see a day where I don't have to go into a store and try on eight pairs of pants before I find one that fits my body that day. Right. It is a very frustrating feeling to have just had a baby and now my body is like, who are you?

SPEAKER_04 16:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:16

And to not have anything that fits. It is almost demoralizing to me. And so if I can do something to where it's like, oh, here's my photo, just send me something that will fit and I know it's gonna fit, and a million people are not gonna see this photo, that feels safe to me.

SPEAKER_01 16:32

Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_02 16:33

But right now, that is not our norm.

SPEAKER_01 16:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:36

Yes. That is not how people usually or ever shop today.

SPEAKER_00 16:41

Yeah. We've try I know there've been like at least three or four attempts. Like there was like the Soho suit um attempt a few years ago. Uh a Japanese company uh had this whole like uh patterned suit that you would put on, like a motion capture suit, and it would like try to get all of your measurements.

SPEAKER_01 16:57

That's a lot! It works. What? Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 17:00

Well, but the thing that uh I I'm I'm working to change now is that it used to be a lot of these companies will do submit your photos and we'll make a size recommendation. And it turns out that a lot of times the size recommendations are wrong. Yeah. And the reason for that is because it's like, great, you now have AI telling you that you're either a size six or a size eight, but it's the same six or eight. It's not that we're actually the same shape.

SPEAKER_03 17:23

It's the same shape. So it's gonna be the closest thing that fits you, but it's not necessarily what fits you well.

SPEAKER_00 17:27

Yeah. And so I know we've had this discussion, it's like, yeah, I don't think we can ever get like to millimeter like accuracy based on the two photos, just because my math, um, there's a math limitation on like number of pixels that you I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 17:41

I would challenge you on that because you're a pretty you're a genius, Cedric. You've been figuring out a lot of stuff.

SPEAKER_00 17:46

But if you inhale or exhale, that's more than a millimeter.

SPEAKER_01 17:50

It's actually really true.

SPEAKER_00 17:51

So that's yeah. So there's gonna be noise, but as long as you get the shape right. I mean, we and I think the extreme was we discovered with our our trainer, Deanna, um, who's like 5'9 and not 5'5 and a half and like 200 and some pounds like bodybuilder. Yeah, like she can wear Becca's leggings. Interesting. Yeah, I mean she's a little bit tight, but like the because the shape looks so good. Yeah, because the shape is there. Like because we've actually captured the human shape, it uh there's a lot more forgiveness. So I think I've I've given myself a little more grace with like not trying to be get everything perfect, but at least get into the right ballpark. And so because we can get uh figure out with AI what ballpark a person should be in and what the general shape should be, um, we can already do a lot better than like your standard 11 sizes.

SPEAKER_03 18:40

But sorry, going back to the picture concern, I think people should know that like we don't see the pictures. The only way we see the pictures is if there is a fit issue that we need to troubleshoot.

SPEAKER_04 18:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:49

So like you're not seeing the pictures, I'm not seeing the picture. I'm not seeing any of the pictures unless somebody texts me the photos and being like, this is what I sent in. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:57

So it's it's literally only if like if you get your parent and you're like, wait, these were way too long, then we can be like, okay, let's take a look at the photo. Maybe it was shot with the wrong angle that made your legs look longer than they are or whatever. Yes. It's like that's the only time that the pictures come into play.

SPEAKER_02 19:11

I yeah, okay, so this is oh gosh, wait, oh, mom brain. I just lost my train of thought. Oh, yes, you were talking about um starting when it's like imperfect. And I I would like to dig into that just like a little bit because maybe if you're listening or watching this episode, you might not be starting a leggings brand. You might be on the cusp of something else, of like, well, I feel like the way we're our direct the direction of how society is going is a lot of people are becoming entrepreneurs in their own right, and like kind of losing the middleman in a lot of ways, and people are becoming like independent creators in many different industries. And so, like, the importance of starting something when you don't have all the answers, and maybe being like you're scared to start something when you because you don't know, but you feel called to do something, but you do it anyway. Can you speak a little bit on that of just starting?

SPEAKER_03 20:15

I mean, this is not the first company that you've started individually or as a as a I feel like it's the classic like writer's block thing where you like have to write a paper or you like you, you know, let's say you're an actual writer, you want to write a book, and you just like can't get started. But once you get started, you can always go back. You can always go back and perfect and edit. But it's it's like you're getting that start, and I think Cedric. You need something to edit. Yes, yeah. And I think Cedric is much better at that than I am. Um he's since I met him. We've been we've known each other for what, 10 years now? We've been married for almost nine. Oh, congratulations, you guys! He has wanted to have a company together pretty much since I met him. And when I met him, he actually was uh creating a uh yoga mat company. I kind of got to see what that was like someone creating something from the ground up as kind of a witness because I don't come from a family of entrepreneurs or business owners. Business owners. Yeah, like yeah, I come from a family of like media like advertising sales, you know, which is which is different. It's still sales, but like the the actual nitty-gritty of creating something. Yeah, you know, and and Cedric is so good at it, you know? And I kinda I've kind of just along for the ride. Come on, I mean, yeah, we've had we've had a few a few different companies together. Um, but this is by far the the the one that's gone the furthest and that that we're the most invested in it.

SPEAKER_02 21:41

So cool. And you say along for the ride, but who you marry is one of the biggest business decisions of your life. Because if you marry somebody who is not supportive, I mean it's so much harder. And if you marry somebody who's like, all right, let's do this, or here's my blessing, or

SPEAKER_03 22:00

Yes, yes, then it just really make or break a lot of I will say along this ride, like C I mean Cedric is the the we've said the techno technological genius. I can't help him with that stuff. Like he he's sometimes struggling with problems and I feel bad because I I don't I can't help you so far above watching him code in real time. I'm like I but earlier on I realized like I have very strong opinions about like fabric.

SPEAKER_04 22:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 22:29

Like we went, we were in the garment district in New York City, and there are at least three stores that carry only stretch fabric. I'm excited. I mean there's stores literally called Spandex House. Spandex House. Stretch house stretch house. Yeah I'm like, surely.

SPEAKER_02 22:42

I've gotten really good feedback on the fabric.

SPEAKER_03 22:44

Oh, great.

SPEAKER_00 22:45

Yes. It's custom.

SPEAKER_03 22:47

It's custom. No, we literally went to all three stores.

SPEAKER_00 22:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:51

And they're pretty big stores. And we were looking for black. We weren't looking for like an obscure print, you know? Could not find anything even remotely near what I wanted. Everything felt way too like cheap and slippery. Oh. And so we ended up having to through like Alibaba.

SPEAKER_00 23:07

Yeah, Alibaba. We we I talked to I think like 30 or 40 different companies. We have a whole af after trimming everything down, we still have a shoebox. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:17

Um we went through probably like I don't know, 400 swatches.

SPEAKER_02 23:21

Oh my gosh. That has to be so overwhelming. Like looking at headshots.

SPEAKER_03 23:24

Like after the hundredth photo, I'm like, and at the end of the day, I was I actually surprised myself how particular I was. Like so few of them made the cut for me. And at the end of the day, I really liked one exterior and one interior. And so we we reached out to another company and said, Hey, here are two fab here are two swatches. Can you make this? And so they made custom fabric for it.

SPEAKER_00 23:45

Wait, that and that's you know, I have faith because my my family used to do textiles. Oh, yeah. So um fabric cloth. So I had at least some idea of how of the process.

SPEAKER_02 23:54

So the pair that you made me, the second pair that you made me before I got pregnant, is that a different fabric or the same fabric that I have today?

SPEAKER_00 24:03

I think that's the same.

SPEAKER_03 24:04

I think when we gave you this I'm I'm 90% sure you have the we we had a second fabric that was never gonna be the real, like the actual fabric, but was the fabric that we had in New York City for Cedric to just sew me pairs? Like when he made big alterations to the That is so crazy.

SPEAKER_02 24:21

Yeah, sewing machines in the learned how to do it. Not just the sewing machine, you guys. It's like a full-on table of like, I'm gonna cut a leg. A laser cutter. A laser cutter.

SPEAKER_00 24:33

It's a knife cutter, it's a motoring knife cutter, it's but it's a CNC cutter.

SPEAKER_02 24:36

Uh like when you say Bessie in New York, like literally, truly from your apartment is where this started. Where it started, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:43

And I mean, Cedric made me how many pairs did we decide? It was like 73. Yeah. No, 73 is how many I had.

SPEAKER_00 24:50

You made me like Oh, it was at least 60.

SPEAKER_03 24:52

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 24:53

Some No, I I've sewn for you at least 60. I think uh altogether I've sewn over a hundred.

SPEAKER_03 24:57

Yeah. So we we would make when he would alter the the pattern, I'll go at all. Like he would make me a new pair to make sure because like from the beginning I said these need to fit, flatter, and function. Yes. So I don't care if they fit and they're flattering. If they roll down, if they pull down, not wearing them. And I had such strong opinions about that. Point that for months I felt like I was like the like Debbie Downer in the relationship. But you live in leggings. I you in leggings all the time. So if you don't like your leggings, like leggings and scrubs. That's it. That's it. When I go to when I go to Broadway, I dress up, but like otherwise, yeah, leggings and scrubs. Yeah. And so we were getting to what you were saying when you actually want some negative constructive feedback. I want it. At the very beginning, our good friends were just giving us positive feedback. Which is so sweet, but we're trying to scale. And I had to be like, hey, listen, like, reach out to this next, you know, specific friend and be like, hey, I noticed in my pair from this badge, the crotch is sagging a little bit. Yeah. Like, did you notice that? Oh, yeah, yeah, I did notice that. Like, you need to tell me that. Like, we are trying to make something that is like as close to perfect as possible.

SPEAKER_02 25:57

We want it to be the bomb. Yes. Something that we're proud of, that is not like, okay, we talked about this once before. We rather be nine people's favorite things than a hundred people's nine favorite thing. No, no, no. We want to be number one. Yes. This is the legging that you go to when you're just the most this is what I want to live in. Okay, so I have a question for you. It what is better? And you might have different opinions or the same opinion. What's better? A pair that Cedric sews himself to give to you, or from the factory?

SPEAKER_00 26:31

The factory should be better.

SPEAKER_03 26:33

The factory should be better. Your pairs are good though. They're different, so they are slightly different fabric.

SPEAKER_00 26:37

And so No, I have the factory. I have the Shaoshing fabric at home. I I have rolls from each.

SPEAKER_03 26:45

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 26:46

Um, and but the big difference is that the pairs we saw at home have marrow active seam.

SPEAKER_03 26:51

Yeah, yeah, the stitch is different. The stitch is different.

SPEAKER_00 26:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:54

Oh no, he he wrong. He is trying to teach our own.

SPEAKER_00 26:58

Oh no, no, no, no, he can. He can say it. He can say ISO. He knows letters. 607, 607, he can say that. And flat seam, he can say that.

SPEAKER_03 27:08

I'm trying to teach him the like what is that designation? What's it the actual designation for the different types of stitches? Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 27:15

Yeah, so the yeah, no, I mean, if if you were to look at a tech pack, and I don't know to what extent like designers actually have to specify this, but you'll say it's a flat seam, which is a four-needle, six-thread stitch. Yeah. Um, and then and then you have a, you know, and then you have a couple of things. I'm like, I'm I don't know what you're saying.

SPEAKER_02 27:34

So, but yeah, there like I like I purchased a set of machines just for the factory for our like what are you gonna do one day, Cedric and Becca, if like down the line we're freaking bigger, and I'm saying we because I'm in this with you all now. We're bigger than Lululemon, and people are like, wait, Cedric sews every few pairs himself. I want a pair from Cedric. I want a Cedric pair. It's like the Lynn Manuel Miranda, like there are better singers than Lynn Manuel. But when you go see Hamilton, you kind of want Lynn. Yep. 100%. I will you'll pay big money for Lynn, even though Javier probably scanned better. So what are you gonna do if people are like, I want in the notes, a Cedric Stone pair?

SPEAKER_00 28:18

Yeah. No, we I I've actually looked at doing a list. No, uh no, I've actually looked at doing like Kickstarter style, like founder series, like, you know, we'll sew a pair and just charge like an extra like arm and leg for it.

SPEAKER_01 28:32

I mean like a thousand, yeah, like a thousand or two thousand.

SPEAKER_00 28:35

Yeah, for that if you actually want me to sew a pair. I've thought about that.

SPEAKER_02 28:38

It's already so custom. You're getting uh a pair made just for your body, and then in the waistband it says your name. Unless if you elect to put something else in the waistband, but it's size Cedric, size Becca, size Telisha.

SPEAKER_00 28:50

I think someone has like hot stuff.

SPEAKER_02 28:52

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I know who that is. Size hot stuff. I'm like, oh my god, oh yeah. Let me make a note to make sure he knows which who this is for. He said, I know who it's gonna be for. Okay, I need your hot take on AI, because that's a that's a hot button today, and AI is part of the technology that runs this business. But just for the record, it has not replaced anybody's jobs in this company.

SPEAKER_01 29:18

No.

SPEAKER_02 29:19

So I'd love to hear each of your opinions on how you feel about AI, generally speaking, or about this company.

SPEAKER_03 29:31

So about this company, like AI can't try on my leggings and say they don't have you know function issues. So like I'm not worried. They can't pick which shade of blue, like navy or gray they want, which I'm also apparently very particular about. Surprised myself even. And I was like, I got the Pantone book out, and I was like, there it is, and there it is. Okay. No, we went to the phone.

SPEAKER_00 29:52

We went to you know, we went to the store to actually get the actual Pantone book.

SPEAKER_03 29:56

That's so you know, I I feel like that that I'm not worried about. AI in general, we've talked about. I have a lot more reservations about AI than Cedric does, um, just in the world. I mean, they're talking about doctor AI, you know, which so far, like, it's not not doing so great, you know. Like if you put a prompt in, like it gets it wrong a lot.

SPEAKER_01 30:16

Uh uh. No, oh well, this is true. I don't want an AI surgeon.

SPEAKER_00 30:19

Well no, it's turning into uh well, we're finding out that um most people with AI are getting worse results. Like the average person who doesn't know what uh what to search for, how to communicate with the AI are getting far worse results than like if you talk to an actual physician and have them like work with the AI for you.

SPEAKER_03 30:39

I think it goes to the fact that there's an art to medicine, it's not just a science.

SPEAKER_00 30:43

Yeah, and a practice.

SPEAKER_02 30:45

And I feel the same way about conveying feeling on stage through a voice in a commercial. It's like um having empathy, having a point of view. AI can't capture what a human soul can capture. What do you think about AI?

SPEAKER_00 31:02

Well, um our technique.

SPEAKER_03 31:06

Who has conversations with Claude. Who invited me to AI conferences? I'm like, that was pretty cool. I was talking to Claude about this. I'm like, you weren't talking to Claude. You were like querying, like, there's gotta be a different verb. We need a different verb.

SPEAKER_02 31:19

I think I'd be like clauding. Are you do that with Andrew? It was like, um, ChatGPT lets me tell it the same stories over and over again, and you get tired when you hear the same story from me, Andrew.

SPEAKER_01 31:30

He's like, is ChatGPT your boyfriend?

unknown 31:35

No.

SPEAKER_00 31:35

No, you know, you you you you've outsourced like all yeah, all the stuff that I wanted to like run by you, it's like we can we can we can run through.

SPEAKER_02 31:42

I'm like, aren't I so funny? He's like, Yes, you're so funny.

SPEAKER_00 31:45

Yeah. I think ironically I found that because AI has made so much easier, um, like the entire Bezier code base now is completely written and managed by AI. So Claude Code actually uh I I I've given Claude the mandate that humans never write the code and humans never read the code. And since I did that about six weeks ago, I think I've only looked at code once.

SPEAKER_02 32:12

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_00 32:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:13

So just to be clear, but I've watched you code. You've been like this. Hold on, Selicia. Yeah, uh, yeah, uh wait one second, I'm thinking out loud.

SPEAKER_00 32:22

I'm like, oh nowadays it's just like I asked Bod to do it, uh to handle something.

SPEAKER_02 32:27

But it still looks really hard what you're doing. Like I've been s I've sat next to you at an AI conference, coding faster than the person teaching the class.

SPEAKER_00 32:35

I'm like Well, now we can talk about that separately. But yeah, now nowadays it it's got it's made it easier to like articulate and think out loud about like what should a code base be, um, and then how does it serve a purpose? So it's like in our case, like our goal is to sell leggings that fit. Yeah, you know, like that booty luggage. Yeah, fit flatter function on the first try is like is the overall goal of this company. And it's like the whole business thesis is that uh if we can involve a little more intelligence at the beginning of the process, not at the end. So right now, the system's not very smart, uh, or like the standard like um mass-produced uh clothing like um industry is just not smart. You design something, then uh you send it over to Asia, and then uh someone will take your design and create the 11 sizes out of that. Um scale it up and down, pinch to zoom like a Metroshka doll, stacking doll, Russian.

SPEAKER_04 33:39

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:39

Yeah, like a stacking Russian doll. Um and then they'll make um um a container full of that. So for like uh tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars, they will fill one container and then they will ship it from Vietnam to, let's say, Long Beach, and then try to sell and distribute. And only then, like uh six months later or nine months after the initial designs were approved, do we find out that oh, the leggings don't fit or the leggings don't flatter and for whatever reason. And then so you kind of have to go back.

SPEAKER_02 34:08

And so we're saying And we all those things, if it doesn't work, it goes to waste. Yeah, it goes to land. Sounding very sustainable.

SPEAKER_00 34:16

Yeah, it's not sustainable. And so the other thing that you look at is like a lot of times people will be like, oh, sometimes I'm a six and sometimes an eight.

SPEAKER_02 34:24

That part, I'm always in between sizes.

SPEAKER_00 34:27

Uh and that's frustrating. And that's frustrating me, and also because like different factories will grade differently.

SPEAKER_03 34:33

Or even like different companies, like I have a lot of Lululemon products, and I can be anywhere from a four to a twelve, depending on what I'm buying. Oh. Like I'm generally a six or maybe an eight, but like I have some things that are 12 and some things that are a four. Oh, that's you know, that's a is that just that there are different factories? Is that that just different styles are sized completely differently? So you're just always guessing. You know, if you end up ordering multiple sizes, figure out which one fits you and sends it back, half the time, or I don't even know the percentage of the time, that stuff might end up just in a landfill.

SPEAKER_04 35:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:04

Like it doesn't get resold. It's so wasteful.

SPEAKER_02 35:07

And also the people who, you know, I've been one of these people who order sizes based on the number that I want to be.

SPEAKER_04 35:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:14

We've all been there. Instead of for the body that I have. It's a mind game. It's a mind game. It's like I chop a Banana Republic, the factory store, and I'm like a size extra small. But if I go somewhere else, I'm like a large. I'm like, wait a minute. What is going on? It's a mind game. Yeah. Syntax. It's like, just change the letter on it, but it's still your body. It still messes with you. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:37

I'm sorry, keep going. AI.

SPEAKER_00 35:38

Yeah, so you know, I I don't have like I'm optimistic with AI, and then I think like I told Becca that I think I notice I work more uh now that that's because of AI than work less, because I can spend more time like like specifying exactly what I want, or talking about exactly what I want, or brainstorming like how a whole system should work. And so, like, because the um because the amount of effort it takes to do any one thing has come down so much, uh, I can I can I feel like I can do more. Um that I think there's um in AI circles, uh tech circles you hear about like Jevon's paradox is what it's called. Um it was an idea from I think the 19th century where they discovered with coal that uh if you make uh engines a lot more efficient, uh then coal consumption actually goes up, uh not down. That was the paradox. Um and yeah, uh so it turns out that Interesting. Yeah, so as uh steam engines got more efficient and they could start using um uh uh steam engines to run factories, like textile factories, uh, then uh the cons uh the amount of coal consumed actually becomes interesting.

SPEAKER_02 36:46

So what do you think about that for like what how that would would apply here?

SPEAKER_00 36:50

So as a person, I'm finding that uh because the amount of effort uh it takes to do any one thing has gone down, I find that my time is actually like my time dedicated to work has gone up.

SPEAKER_02 37:02

Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 37:03

So as discussion more things. I have more things.

SPEAKER_02 37:06

So for both of you, what does success in this company look like or feel like? What would what would what is that for you individually or together?

SPEAKER_00 37:23

Oh I I think it's just that we find new fun problems every day. And yeah, we just continue to fit the world and like you know, grow. I I think the company grows like um pretty much as our defect rate goes down, like the amount of like uh issues that we have per batch go down. I think that that's how we grow the company. And then like we it's very easy in fashion to say, you know what, we should throw pockets in. Finally, we'll add pockets.

SPEAKER_01 37:49

Somebody told me that this week, they're like, we need a pocket. We need pockets. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:53

It's like it's something I'm I'm trying to figure out like how do I want to design that? How does that act? How do I draw pockets onto like you know, onto these 3D models, like you know, uh on mass? That's um that fits to be its own like challenge. Uh and so that that that's something that I'll I'll get to eventually once we solve the other fit issues.

SPEAKER_02 38:12

That is actually really so inspiring. We'll get to it, but that is so inspiring to me for many reasons.

SPEAKER_03 38:20

Becca, what does success feel like for you or look like? First off, I'm gonna say I'm actually surprised he didn't say something about like making XML for you. That part. I was like, where's that part at? He's like, I just want to have fun. Make it something cool. Yeah, which is great. I mean I'm like work, right? Um I think for me, having this be continue to be a fun project is also like I, you know, I don't want it to be something where Cedric it like is stressed and all consumed and it affects like you know our family life or our ability to travel. Like I want it, I think like where we're at now as it as it's kind of slowly growing is great. And then yeah, I think it would be fun in the future to be able to like branch out and do other things, but I think it's tops. We should do tops to the point that we're we should do a color that's not black. We have the colors that we've got. Oh, we do.

SPEAKER_00 39:10

There are no yeah, they're not, yeah, they're in a warehouse. There's no warehouse in China.

SPEAKER_02 39:14

How far is that away? Because people are asking me, Cedric. They're like, they're like, are there other colors? Are there other cuts?

SPEAKER_00 39:20

They are, they're about 1500 miles away. By by boat.

SPEAKER_03 39:23

Okay, and we have done other cuts. We've done capris, we've done pedal pushers, we've done shorts of various lengths. Um I know we've been kind of focusing on full length right now, but um, your first capris are coming. Yay! And I was like, it's been too warm in New York City. Actually, they're okay in the heat, but like had I had my capris today, I would have worn them instead of my full length. I think at some point, maybe we branch out. I've been a little more reluctant to do that. Like Cedric was like, yeah, and then we'll do we'll do sports magazines, tops, and all this stuff.

SPEAKER_00 39:50

And we can do scrubs.

SPEAKER_03 39:53

Shoot, once you do scrubs, I'm like, I'm gonna be asking for jeans. Yeah, I'm gonna be asking for one. Oh, yeah, you want your bodysuit. I want my bodysuit. I think your bodysuit is gonna come before a lot of the other stuff. Because a bodysuit can be kind of like a simple like I've already done it and still be so great. Because my thing with like tops is I don't like a boring top. You're so particular. I am very particular. That's an amazing asset. I do not like a boring tank top. I want straps, I want fun designs. So, and I I I can't design I'm not an artist, I'm not a designer. Yeah, but you know what?

SPEAKER_02 40:25

Yeah, I just read something the other day about Ralph Loren Polo. He was born a whole different name that I don't know, sounded very different. He created this brand. He never designed, like, he never like drew the design. No, it was he had the vision. And then once you have the vision, you can find people to help you bring it to life. You don't have to be the one doing every little detail. You just have to believe that the feeling that you want to create can exist. So you wanted to be fun and creative. Yeah, that can work. I now I want that. I'm like, people are so how much time do we have? We have time. We have a few more minutes, we have a few more minutes. I'm like, do we have to end right now? Um, you can do that. And I'm like, we're waiting for it.

SPEAKER_01 41:13

We're already waiting for it.

SPEAKER_02 41:18

So I have some rapid fire for you guys. Oh wait, wait. Can I actually I'll say it at the end rapid fire. Coffee or tea. Coffee.

SPEAKER_01 41:39

Both me and Andrew would have been like tea. Coffee. Broadway or Netflix.

SPEAKER_00 41:46

Broadway.

SPEAKER_03 41:49

After the show, I've got to give you a little update about Broadway. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 41:54

Risk or stability.

SPEAKER_00 41:56

Risk or stability.

SPEAKER_02 41:58

Okay. Who takes longer to get ready?

unknown 42:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 42:04

Mainly because he just like throws on clothes. Yeah. Okay. There's no there's no printpin over here.

SPEAKER_00 42:12

I don't have the, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:14

I'm like, all right, we love a uniform.

SPEAKER_00 42:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:16

One word to describe each other. Genius. Oh. Oh. Oh.

SPEAKER_01 42:23

Okay. He's like, I want to get laid after this interview.

SPEAKER_03 42:29

Let's be clear. He means that in a loving way, not a possessive way.

SPEAKER_01 42:37

There we go. Oh my gosh. Canceling to do here.

SPEAKER_02 42:43

Dream celeb to wear Bazier.

SPEAKER_00 42:46

It's funny, I just was like chatting Tatum, but it's like that does not make sense.

SPEAKER_01 42:50

What if you start signing for guys?

SPEAKER_03 42:53

I never know. Taylor Swift.

SPEAKER_00 42:56

I think I all agree with that.

SPEAKER_03 43:00

Maybe it's just because I like love her as a human and as an artist. Or it'd be like upset on her.

SPEAKER_01 43:05

And then I'm like, let's get Beyonce and some pants. Oh, Beyonce would be great too.

SPEAKER_02 43:10

She'd be like, um, do you have like a cut?

SPEAKER_00 43:12

Yeah, we'll go to the cut. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:15

Shorts, but like just take them all the way out.

SPEAKER_03 43:18

Like, what does that even call it? Like a brief. Yeah, it's actually called a brief.

SPEAKER_02 43:23

Um, finish the sentence. We'll know we made it when.

SPEAKER_03 43:29

That's not that's not a rapid fire question.

SPEAKER_00 43:31

I know.

SPEAKER_02 43:32

I know.

SPEAKER_00 43:36

It becomes self-sufficient. I'll leave it at that. Because right now, like I'm I fund yeah, you're in the weeds. Yeah, yeah, no, yeah, I know I'm funding it's weak as far as it's you know it it I I I treat it. I I had the dark night of soul like six months ago. I was like, I don't know how I'm gonna market this, I don't know how you can do people to take photos. Um, and then I was just like, you know, um, and then I think I just Realized, like, you know what, I'm just gonna give it as a hobby. It was like, I just want to like great pants that fit, and like um, this is the burn rate I'm willing to accept as uh my my general AI hobby. And so I think I feel like once uh once it actually becomes like self-sufficient and like can pay for itself. It's like I feel like that's that's the initial like system at work.

SPEAKER_03 44:22

I love that. I'm gonna I'm gonna one up that. Well, no, we made it when when Mama Yao approves.

SPEAKER_00 44:28

Oh, when my mom approves.

SPEAKER_03 44:32

Send the bar I. Yeah, send the bar real eye. Chinese mom. Yeah. Chinese tiger mom love.

SPEAKER_00 44:41

But but surely Wall Street would be more stable. That's awesome. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:47

I love that, you guys, and I love you both. I really do. And this is it's exciting to watch, it's exciting to be a part of, it's exciting to hear my friends talk about it. And I asked you guys like what success feels like, and I would like to just chime in there as well. To me, what success would feel like for me is one day I'm in another rehearsal for another Broadway show of mine, and I look around the room, and my cast is wearing Bazier. I think that would be so freaking cool. And there's a day when I'm like, I know I can make everybody in this room wear this, but the day when they just choose to, that to me will feel so freaking cool and like Bazier, New York. Yes, it's like truly being made from New York, like it's originating here, but then also just that feeling of like when I go to California and I see somebody in a pair of Laduca heels, it's a very like I know what that person, the lengths they went to to get a pair of Laducas on their feet. And maybe like how much they like invested in that because you don't want to order online and it doesn't fit you perfectly, like the care that goes into it, it's like so much pride. And so, like, I don't know. I do want it to be like accessible to everybody, but like just being able to see people wearing Bezier in New York City and then eventually everywhere. Yeah. So is there anything else on our hearts, our minds that you wanted to like try like put in there or say or no?

SPEAKER_03 46:34

This has been great though. Thank you for having us. I feel like every time I see you, your energy just like you just like lighten the world. That guy, you do, you do. You lighten the room, you like bring just so much positive energy. I mean, I love you. I can like I can feel you right now like covered in goosebumps.

SPEAKER_02 46:54

But it's mutual, it's like why we're friends. We met how many, how long ago now?

SPEAKER_03 47:00

Oh gosh. Well, I was pregnant. I was pregnant. Yeah, so at least, at least like three and a half years ago.

SPEAKER_00 47:09

Hey, no, we met at that Andrew Lloyd Webber show.

unknown 47:11

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 47:12

Cinderella.

unknown 47:13

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 47:15

How do I keep forgetting that? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:17

Wow. It was a while ago.

SPEAKER_04 47:19

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:20

And also there is, and we never really got into this, but just there is something to be said about being full-time parents, having a lot going on in your life, and still deciding to build something that you don't know how it's gonna turn out, how it's going to end up. And for those of you guys who are tuning into this episode, we have started a podcast. As of right now, it is called Behind the Scenes. It's the Bezier, like startup builds up, building in public podcasts. And who knows? Like, we might just be throwing episodes out there that no one will see right now, but we're gonna continue to make episodes so that one day, when it is discoverable, when you do care about this brand, it's all there. It's all right there.

SPEAKER_00 48:04

And but selfishly, I also feel like we do it for us so that when we look back, we're like, oh yeah, remember that?

SPEAKER_02 48:09

Yeah, yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 48:10

And then yeah, Becca's like, no, Sparkles, you're hallucinating. No, that was not how it went down. And it's like, yeah, it was in this episode. Episode three, you said that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:20

Right, right on. You guys, I'm so thank you for coming on, for coming in person. I know we've been doing so many things virtually, but we're here in New York City at Gotham. Thanks, Gotham, and in the same room, and it feels special. Thank you so much. And for those who you who are listening, whatever you have on your heart or in your mind or your soul that you want to begin, and maybe you're scared to do it, but you know you're called to do it. I just want to encourage you to just try. The worst that can happen is that you fail. Who freaking cares? We're gonna blink, life is gonna be over. Are you gonna have anything that outlasts you that you have created, that you have built, that is still here when you leave? Because we're just here in a blink. So you might as well just take big swings. And it's okay to be rejected. It is okay to hear no's. It is okay to fail, but at least give yourself the chance to fly. So thank you guys for helping, like dreaming with me, letting me dream with you, letting me be a part of your team to bring this dream and this vision to life. So, Cedric Yao, Rebecca Burton Yao, thank you for coming to the Salaesia show.

SPEAKER_01 49:34

Thank you for helping us.

SPEAKER_02 49:36

That's a wrap. Yay.