[S1E7] Ferrin Williams: Empowering Choice to Help You Save on Prescriptions

Why Your Employees Are Overpaying for Prescriptions—And How Pharmacy Navigation Tools Can Fix It

Ferrin Williams, PharmD, MBA, Chief Pharmacy Officer at Scripta Insights, reveals how pharmacy care navigation tools can help employees save thousands on prescriptions while working within existing PBM systems.

Vincent and Ferrin discuss pharmacy benefit managers (PBMs), comparison shopping tools for prescription medications, and how employers can optimize their pharmacy benefits. Ferrin shares how Scripta partners with Mark Cuban's Cost Plus Drugs to help patients navigate prescription costs, highlighting the significant savings she personally experienced using the service. They explore the challenges of prescription drug pricing, including brand protection strategies and the impact of generic alternatives.

The conversation covers the role of PBMs in managing prescription drug costs, why physician prescribing practices often miss formulary gaps, the importance of pharmacy navigation tools, and emerging medication trends including GLP-1 drugs (now covered by 60% of self-funded employers for weight loss) and specialty medications. Ferrin emphasizes that navigation tools work alongside existing PBMs to help employees find better prices without disrupting current systems, potentially reducing costs and improving member satisfaction.

Disclaimer: This content is for educational purposes only. Please discuss your specific situation with your health benefits administrator or insurance provider for personalized guidance.

Transcript

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Welcome to the Clearly Beneficial podcast,

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the show where we rip off the Band-Aid and explore the future of healthcare,

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benefits,

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and the people driving innovation in the industry.

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This episode is brought to you by Health Next,

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the company leading the way in helping employers build enduring cultures of health

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and well-being,

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reducing medical cost trends,

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and increasing organizational performance.

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To learn more how they can help you, visit healthnext.com.

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Welcome to the Clearly Beneficial podcast.

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This is Vinny Catalano, and thanks for joining.

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Today, I'm just so excited.

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You know what I love about doing this is that you get to stay connected and

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reconnect with former colleagues and friends in the industry and...

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Today's guest is no exception.

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I'm really excited to have Ferrin Williams with me.

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She and I got to know each other when we both worked at a large insurance

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brokerage,

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and she ran pharmacy consulting for this particular organization out here on the

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West.

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out here in the west and uh you know she and i have stayed connected over the last

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few years and um she's now working for a great company and staying in the pharmacy

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space and and talking about pharmacy is something which you know i think a lot of

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you uh feel like it's this mystical you know curiously you know confusing thing and

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i want to you know brought farin on today to talk about that so baron thanks for

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joining us thank you for having me on Vinny i'm excited to be here

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So maybe give the audience just a brief background.

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How did you end up in pharmacy benefits consulting and doing what you're doing today?

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Yeah, no, that's a great question.

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I didn't dream or even think about doing pharmacy benefits consulting when I was in

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pharmacy school.

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I'm a pharmacist by education, so I got my bachelor's, an MBA, and a PharmD.

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It's a way of calling a doctorate of pharmacy.

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It's called a PharmD.

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I got that from the University of Oklahoma, so boomer sooner.

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And I spent the first 10 years of my career on the retail pharmacy operations side

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of the house.

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And then from there, I went to a startup PBM.

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So a small pharmacy benefit manager, if you've heard of that.

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And then from there, I went into consulting.

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And that's where I really got to work hand in hand with employers.

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And I'd been on this benefits side of the house for the last few years of my career.

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And

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Yeah, it's been really great.

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I got to meet you and great people like you.

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Well, thank you.

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Thank you.

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And you also got to meet Mark Cuban, right?

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You were on a podcast with Mark Cuban sometime in the last year, right?

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Yeah,

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so I work at Scripta Insights now,

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and we have a partnership with Mark Cuban's Cost Plus Drugs.

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So they're a pharmacy.

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Anybody can get on and look up your prescription and see the price.

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And we help members or patients navigate and look at the Mark Cuban price with Cost

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Plus Drugs through our app.

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So we have a great partnership.

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And so through that,

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I got to do a podcast with him,

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and it's been wonderful working with him and his team.

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that that's awesome i mean not that this is a commercial for for mark cuban but uh

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at the same time i'm a huge fan i mean um uh i uh you know take a couple of generic

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drugs and i saw that the cost to buy my medications through cost plus drugs was one

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third of what it would have cost me through my my own health plan and so it just

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makes it so simple and it all comes in the mail and and i'm a huge fan of cost plus

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drugs

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So in your preamble there,

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you said the most interesting initials in the universe,

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PBM,

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and I don't mean peanut butter and mayonnaise.

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Most humans in America have no idea what a PBM is, yet a PBM is.

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touches their lives every day if they're filling any prescriptions.

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So maybe Ferrin, let's start by you giving me that 50,000 foot description of what is a PBM.

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yeah so basically a pharmacy benefit manager is there to help process and

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adjudicate prescription drug claims so essentially if you need a prescription drug

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with which most members with an employer plan it's about 40 percent at some time

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within a year are going to need a prescription drug

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And so when you go to your pharmacy to get that prescription drug, it could cost $500 cash.

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So you'll want to use your insurance.

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And whenever you process your insurance card,

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the company that is doing that is called a pharmacy benefit manager.

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And your employer that you have your insurance with is processing, is working with a PBM.

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vendor to do that.

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Your employer may be a steel manufacturer.

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They're really good at steel.

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So their expertise may not be in pharmacy benefits and adjudicating claims.

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So they hire a partner to do that for them.

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Gotcha.

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Gotcha.

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And so it's safe to say that most employers have a pharmacy benefit manager.

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So if they're self-insured, they may have a standalone pharmacy benefit manager partner.

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If they're fully insured,

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that pharmacy benefit manager is going to be embedded in that fully insured health

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plan.

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Is that all correct?

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It's all correct.

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Yeah.

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So everybody has one.

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Okay.

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Well, everybody has one.

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And so they work in tandem,

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usually with,

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especially on the self-insured side,

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they work in tandem with the consultant to define the plan,

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the benefits,

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the formulary.

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So tell the audience, what is a formulary?

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Yeah,

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so a formulary is essentially a list of medications that are going to be covered by

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the plan.

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So if they're a self-funded employer,

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they're saying these medications we will pay for if you are a member on our plan.

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That formulary,

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you're correct,

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is created by their pharmacy benefit manager partner that they work with.

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Okay, and so...

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Most employees have no control over what's on the formula.

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Correct.

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Yeah.

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No, this is just, they sign up for it and then they get what they get.

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Right.

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And that's always been the challenge, right?

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I mean,

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having been in the benefits business for 22 plus years,

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you always get the complaints from the members that ultimately funnel up to you in

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some way,

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shape or form.

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And many times it's the CFO's wife or the CEO's spouse who has the problem and that

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bubbles up to you.

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But for example, you get the case where the physician prescribes a drug that

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And most physicians really aren't checking your formulary when they're prescribing, correct?

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Or has that gotten better over the years?

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Yes and yes.

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I would say it's gotten a little bit better.

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They do have the ability through their EMR to check what's on formulary.

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Do they do that or do they do that well?

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Is it accurate?

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Those could all be improved for sure.

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I just had, it happened to me the other day, Vinny, where I went for my daughter, an eye doctor.

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She got prescribed Tobradex.

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I called the pharmacy.

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I said, hey, I'm going to be there in 20 minutes.

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Can you have this ready so I can get in and out?

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And he said, yeah, but it's $360.

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It looks like you haven't hit your deductible.

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And I was like, oh, no.

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Oh, is that a formulary?

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What's happening?

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So of course,

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you know,

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I use the tools that we have through pharmacy navigation and I looked up that

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medication.

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There's another steroid and antibiotic, essentially the same drug.

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for $8 under my formulary and my plan.

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So I'd rather have that one call the doctor's office.

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They're like, yeah, sure.

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We can change it to this other one, but why would you want to do that?

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I told them, well, it's $8.

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The one you prescribed me is $360.

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And they're like, oh,

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Yeah, of course, no problem.

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So they have no idea,

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even if they know if it's on formulary or off formulary,

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which both of those were on formulary for me,

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they didn't know how much it was going to cost,

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you know,

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and at the end of the day,

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that's what I care about as a consumer.

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No,

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and you cut right to the chase on this in this conversation because I feel like,

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you know,

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while I think the audience for the Clearly Beneficial podcast are,

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you know,

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senior executives,

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CFOs,

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HR,

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even benefits brokers,

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but I believe consumers –

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We'll start to find the benefit in hearing what we have to say,

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because I think it comes down to the consumer experience,

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you know,

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you and me.

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And I think I told you to tell you the story,

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just told you the story about using cost plus drugs and lowering my costs.

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But the point is, is like, we just are sheep.

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You know, doctor prescribes this.

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We go hand the script to the local pharmacy.

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And it's a true statement that you can present that script at different pharmacies

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and get a different price,

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right?

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That's right.

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Yeah, different pharmacies or different forms of the drug.

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You know, the ointment was 360.

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The cream is 200.

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It's just the same drug.

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No, absolutely.

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So consumers just need to be educated.

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And,

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you know,

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I'm doing a whole episode on open enrollment,

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you know,

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because now we're coming up on open enrollment season.

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And I think,

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you know,

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the truth is,

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is that a MetLife study says that,

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you know,

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employees spend no more than nine minutes a year reviewing,

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you know,

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their employee benefit options and their health options when being a better

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consumer,

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you know,

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It's super important, especially when it comes to medications, right?

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Yeah, I mean, we haven't made it easy for them.

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You know, I can go to my grocery store and see almost 100 different types of milk.

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It's like there's the coconut and the almond now and all these different milks at

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different prices from $3 to $12 milk.

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And I can easily shop in comparison right in front of my,

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on almost anything else besides your prescription drugs.

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It is a product, so we should make it easy.

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And I think that's where you're getting at, Vinny.

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No, absolutely.

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And I think,

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you know,

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we really we're not going to really comparison shop where we're going to go get a

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cardiac bypass operation.

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Right.

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We're going to go to where our doctors are.

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But but drugs are that thing which many, many.

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But what percentage of the population is on a drug?

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It's about 40 percent for employer sponsored plans.

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It would be higher if it was like Medicare or something.

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Even Medicare,

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I mean,

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again,

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there's a million drug plans to choose from in the Medicare universe,

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right?

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Part D. So you have an option to pick a different plan.

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So again,

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no one's really an educated consumer around drugs,

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especially when it comes to brand names.

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Now, truth be told, I think the number is probably somewhere

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92% of prescriptions are for generics.

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Is that a fair number?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I would say that's a fair number.

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It's around, I just do the 90-10 rule, but it's probably about 92%.

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I remember looking at some large clients and seeing that 90,

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92% generic,

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and then all of a sudden you dip down about another six,

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7% are brand name,

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and then the rest is non-formulary or specialty drugs.

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But consumers, I mean, just to put a finer point on this,

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You would say consumers just need to use resources available to them,

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whether it's provided by their employer or not,

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to be better navigators of pharmacy,

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right?

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Yeah, that's right.

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And hopefully find a tool that makes it easy.

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I think it's hard to call around to every pharmacy in your town and ask about what

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the drug options are.

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And the pharmacy employees are so busy right now.

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It's getting harder and harder for them to spend the time to help out, even their own patients.

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So I think that's a starting point is just

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gathering resources and doing some prescription shopping.

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You know,

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I probably spent 30 minutes the other day shopping for a new toaster that ended up

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costing me like $15.

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Why would I not spend,

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you know,

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15 minutes shopping for a prescription drug that could save me 300?

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Just makes all this sense.

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Absolutely.

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And I think, you know, one thing that we, that at least, you know, I'm aware of is, you know,

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Drug companies certainly want to protect their brand name protections under patent rules.

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So a lot of times they'll blend two drugs together and call it something else.

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Or they're very crafty about how they want to keep their brand name and patent protection.

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Is that fair?

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Oh yeah.

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I mean, they have whole departments for that.

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You know,

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I was just talking to a dermatologist the other day who I was asking,

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you know,

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why are,

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why does this patient now need to be on a drug called trim fire at $17,000 a month?

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And she was like, Oh no, it's, it's completely free.

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I get free samples from the drug rep.

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He's such a great guy.

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My patients get it at the specialty pharmacy for free.

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Everything's free.

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Like why,

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Farron, you know, what's the problem?

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I'm like,

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well,

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their employer is paying $17,000 a month,

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but these manufacturers have gotten so good at the game that they make that

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consumerism that happens with every other thing that we buy kind of obsolete.

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And then that just leaves the self-funded employers on the hook for these large costs.

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So they've gotten extremely good at this game.

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Yeah.

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Well,

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and to that point,

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I mean,

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what drives me crazy,

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obviously,

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depending on the TV you're watching,

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every other ad is a drug.

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And aside from looking at the side effects going,

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are the side effects worse than the actual thing I have being treated?

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That's another conversation.

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But at the end of almost each ad, you see...

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Eligible commercial patients pay $0 copay or possibly,

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and there's a little asterisk,

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of course,

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but I'm like,

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how is that possible when I know this drug is,

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to your point,

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$17,000 a year or whatever the number is?

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Employers bear the brunt and physicians and their patients have no clue what that is a thing.

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No clue.

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Yeah.

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You would think a dermatologist, highly educated, very smart, just told me it's all free.

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What's the problem?

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No, no, no.

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So,

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I mean,

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so that leads a little bit to,

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you know,

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back to the consumer experience,

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you know,

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people can do the thing on their own and do the research like they're buying the

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toaster,

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right?

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Or the milk, right?

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Or there are tools available in the marketplace that employers can contract with

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and be able to help navigate.

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The pharmacy benefit manager is doing their job,

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but now there are additional tools out there in the marketplace that allow

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engagement with the member so that if they're prescribed something,

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they know that

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They could go in with more eyes wide open to pick that drug or find alternates, right?

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Yeah, that's correct.

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So myself,

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I'll just get on,

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type in savings on this drug into Google,

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and there's shopping tools that I could use on Google to look how much drugs are.

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It's not hard in today's internet age to kind of shop around online.

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The problem that employers are seeing is that

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It's not taking into account my formulary and my plan design.

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So what's the cost to me where I'm at in my deductible?

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And that's where, you know, employers may hear noise or get complaints.

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You know, why is this price not part of my insurance?

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You mentioned the cost plus drug price and your scenario where...

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You could pay $10 for the same drug there that through your insurance costs $40 for

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the same amount.

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So that's where now navigation,

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especially in the world of AI,

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is just getting much more sophisticated very quickly.

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And employers and CFOs,

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they need to be aware that not only does this exist out there to help members and

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help solve for that and lessen the noise,

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but...

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With the fiduciary conversations and honestly,

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just being a smart consumer with your own plan,

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it's kind of time to have some sort of comparison shopping tool within your plan,

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however that looks.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And, and so take me, take me on a journey.

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I mean, again, you know your employer is, is, is one of those solutions in the marketplace.

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You know, take me on a journey for a member.

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Now that member now gets prescribed something, an expensive brand name drug.

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Take me on that journey with that member.

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yeah so that you know it's similar to the situation i had they'll get a

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prescription from their doctor or for their child's prescription they go to the

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pharmacy and they have that casino like experience where they're like oh i hope i

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can afford the medication this time and they get up to the the counter of the

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pharmacy and then they find out that their medication is really expensive

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People will still maybe pay for that prescription medication,

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even though they can't really afford it,

(00:18:54):
or a third of medications are actually left unpicked up at the pharmacy counter,

(00:18:59):
and the largest reason is due to cost.

(00:19:02):
That's a huge number.

(00:19:03):
You said a third?

(00:19:04):
A third, about 30%.

(00:19:05):
Wow.

(00:19:07):
So they are either not picking up that medication or,

(00:19:11):
you know,

(00:19:11):
they're picking it up,

(00:19:12):
but they're very mad at their employer and the crappy insurance their employer has

(00:19:16):
and so on and so on.

(00:19:18):
So that's, that's the situation that people are in today.

(00:19:23):
And so what happens if you do have a navigation tool, they will see that they get, they, uh,

(00:19:29):
work with the PBM to gather your claims because you're self-funded,

(00:19:33):
so you should have access to all of your pharmacy claims.

(00:19:37):
They will see that that claim is expensive.

(00:19:41):
We like to say anything over $11 is what people will really start to pay attention to.

(00:19:49):
And so we will communicate that any navigation tool that you have should be

(00:19:55):
communicating that to the member.

(00:19:57):
And now the member sees all of their available options.

(00:19:59):
So maybe they were prescribed doxycycline capsules,

(00:20:03):
which are typically,

(00:20:05):
maybe they had to pay $100 out of pocket,

(00:20:07):
haven't hit their deductible,

(00:20:08):
but the tablets are $2.

(00:20:09):
So it's like, oh, now I see that I should have just got the tablets.

(00:20:16):
So there's those type of options.

(00:20:18):
No, that's an amazing point.

(00:20:20):
I mean, it's the form of the medication.

(00:20:23):
It's the dosing of the medication.

(00:20:25):
I mean,

(00:20:26):
one drug that sticks out in my mind is,

(00:20:29):
and again,

(00:20:30):
I'm dating myself a little bit,

(00:20:32):
but Copaxone for multiple sclerosis.

(00:20:34):
I mean, that's a drug that was injectable once a day, but now you've got...

(00:20:41):
Multiple sclerosis drugs that,

(00:20:43):
I mean,

(00:20:43):
you tell me,

(00:20:44):
I mean,

(00:20:44):
the injection frequency is down to once a month,

(00:20:48):
once every six months.

(00:20:49):
I mean, how have the drugs themselves improved?

(00:20:52):
But at the same time, is copaxone still a viable choice, but it's much less expensive?

(00:21:01):
Is this a bad example I'm giving you?

(00:21:04):
No, yeah, multiple sclerosis.

(00:21:06):
I mean, the drug teriflunamide is the...

(00:21:10):
The one that has hit headlines,

(00:21:12):
that there's a famous employer right now who has a lawsuit,

(00:21:16):
an ERISA lawsuit,

(00:21:18):
because they were paying $10,000 for this multiple sclerosis medication.

(00:21:23):
And you can find it on Mark Cuban's site for under $50.

(00:21:28):
So,

(00:21:28):
yeah,

(00:21:28):
you absolutely hit it on the head that whether it's multiple sclerosis or any of

(00:21:33):
these disease states that maybe at one time the medication was brand name and

(00:21:38):
specialty and it's expensive,

(00:21:40):
but it's not anymore.

(00:21:41):
You know, it's a cheap...

(00:21:43):
medication that you can find on uh you know don't sleep on amazon pharmacy they

(00:21:48):
have low cash prices as well this is not a commercial for any particular pharmacy

(00:21:52):
but right um i'm just saying that they're out there but the pharmacy benefit

(00:21:57):
manager may have kept that ten thousand dollar a month price uh within your benefit

(00:22:03):
and and then now you know you're faced lawsuits but even worse you know the

(00:22:07):
patients can't afford their medication they're jumping through hoops it's it's

(00:22:11):
really just uh

(00:22:13):
It's really hard on patients that are diagnosed with multiple sclerosis or any of

(00:22:17):
these disease states that are having these problems with the drug pricing.

(00:22:22):
No, absolutely.

(00:22:24):
But that said, and maybe these are topics for even another episode we can have you on.

(00:22:30):
But really,

(00:22:30):
I mean,

(00:22:31):
I see that,

(00:22:32):
I mean,

(00:22:32):
topics pertaining to,

(00:22:34):
you know,

(00:22:36):
certainly drug and drug innovation.

(00:22:38):
I mean, while these drugs are expensive, certainly solving patient issues.

(00:22:45):
problems and cure, or at least helping make certain illnesses more manageable.

(00:22:51):
So those are those things which are life-saving and life-improving,

(00:22:55):
and while expensive,

(00:22:57):
they're there.

(00:22:59):
One of the other things,

(00:23:01):
which I think is a whole other conversation we should talk about another time,

(00:23:03):
is gene therapy and where that's heading.

(00:23:06):
But the one drug I wanna talk about,

(00:23:08):
which is one that you and I got into about a year ago,

(00:23:11):
are GLP-1s.

(00:23:14):
And I'll never forget the story you told me and all names will be redacted to

(00:23:19):
protect the innocent,

(00:23:21):
but how one employer would have seen their overall health plan costs go up by,

(00:23:30):
I don't even know what the number was,

(00:23:31):
50 or 60 percent as a function of everybody on the

(00:23:36):
If that employer was eligible for a GLP-1,

(00:23:39):
went on a GLP-1 for weight loss,

(00:23:43):
there would have been tremendous financial ramifications,

(00:23:46):
right?

(00:23:47):
So where does that stand today?

(00:23:50):
Have GLP-1s become more cost effective?

(00:23:55):
What has been the uptake of employers in covering GLP-1s?

(00:24:00):
What's the overall trends in that particular area?

(00:24:04):
Yeah, so glucagon-like peptide medications are everywhere.

(00:24:08):
It wouldn't be a pharmacy podcast without saying it, so I'm glad you brought it up.

(00:24:13):
You know,

(00:24:13):
whether it's Kim Kardashian,

(00:24:15):
your commercials,

(00:24:17):
as you mentioned,

(00:24:18):
everybody out there is talking about this,

(00:24:20):
whether you're in pharmacy or not.

(00:24:23):
It was developed initially for diabetes, but now there's medications out there like

(00:24:29):
Manjaro and Saxenda and Wagovi that really drive significant weight loss.

(00:24:35):
So that's these GLP ones.

(00:24:37):
Zimpik is the headliner.

(00:24:39):
That one's actually approved for diabetes.

(00:24:41):
But those medications, you're correct.

(00:24:45):
They have caused a lot of heartache for employers.

(00:24:50):
And how do we pay for them knowing that members are demanding that they be covered

(00:24:55):
under their pharmacy benefit?

(00:24:57):
And that employer...

(00:24:59):
They decided to cover them, just like 60% of their fellow colleagues.

(00:25:06):
So 60% of self-funded employers we're seeing are covering GLP-1s for weight loss.

(00:25:13):
So almost all of them covered GLP-1s for diabetes.

(00:25:16):
Wow.

(00:25:17):
you know there's a lot of pressure to cover them for weight loss so how do you do

(00:25:22):
that if you are a cfo and an employer and you don't know how much you're going to

(00:25:27):
spend on these medications next year you really need to understand that because the

(00:25:33):
curve can just skyrocket right now so

(00:25:36):
So there's some strategies out there that I do feel like are working.

(00:25:41):
We've seen some real success in getting members on these in a productive way that

(00:25:47):
helps their overall health.

(00:25:49):
And therefore,

(00:25:50):
you see the GLP-1 cost increase,

(00:25:52):
but that employee for you is at work,

(00:25:56):
they're sick less often,

(00:25:57):
they're losing weight,

(00:25:59):
they're feeling good,

(00:26:00):
and your medical costs on them have gone down.

(00:26:04):
I would say that it's definitely a lot to consider.

(00:26:08):
It's almost a whole episode by itself,

(00:26:10):
but for sure everybody out there needs to make sure that they understand what their

(00:26:15):
GLP-1 trend is going to look like next year.

(00:26:19):
Not only the cost per unit that everybody's kind of focused on, but what's that overall cost?

(00:26:25):
How many members on your plan are going to be utilizers?

(00:26:31):
No,

(00:26:31):
I mean,

(00:26:32):
it's a big deal because,

(00:26:33):
you know,

(00:26:34):
in essence,

(00:26:34):
I mean,

(00:26:35):
you just brought up a really good point.

(00:26:36):
While maybe I look at it or others look at it that,

(00:26:40):
okay,

(00:26:40):
we're treating weight loss,

(00:26:43):
but the downstream effect is,

(00:26:46):
to your point,

(00:26:47):
that employee is happier,

(00:26:49):
healthier,

(00:26:50):
more engaged.

(00:26:51):
they're not going to have side effects from diabetes down the road or heart disease

(00:26:57):
or whatever it might be.

(00:26:58):
So is it pay now versus paying a lot more later?

(00:27:02):
I mean, is that part of the strategy?

(00:27:05):
It can be part of it.

(00:27:06):
But I mean, you're talking about the example of

(00:27:09):
is a employer that we have spends a billion dollars a year on pharmacy and you

(00:27:15):
could easily get to half a billion dollars next year if all of these people were

(00:27:22):
taking glp1 so to say oh mr cfo we're gonna spend this additional 500 million

(00:27:30):
dollars but we'll tell you that in a few years we're gonna see our medical costs go

(00:27:36):
down that is a conversation

(00:27:38):
That no pharmacy consultant is going to try this.

(00:27:42):
Especially in certain industries, these are not lifetime employees, right?

(00:27:48):
They're there for a limited period of time.

(00:27:50):
So you're not really making a long-term investment.

(00:27:54):
Whatever it is, it is what it is.

(00:27:57):
I mean, this is a fact.

(00:27:58):
And to your point,

(00:27:59):
yes,

(00:28:00):
I think,

(00:28:00):
you know,

(00:28:01):
there will be another Ferrin Williams episode because I think there's,

(00:28:04):
I mean,

(00:28:05):
I really want to unpack some of the future of this industry with regard to

(00:28:11):
specialty medicine,

(00:28:13):
gene therapies.

(00:28:15):
You know,

(00:28:15):
I thought back in the day when I saw these PrEP medications,

(00:28:20):
these pre-exposure prophylaxis medications,

(00:28:23):
start to come to the market.

(00:28:26):
I thought, wow, these are like $1,200 a month.

(00:28:29):
Employers know they're spending $14,000 a year on these, call it a lifestyle drug.

(00:28:36):
Others would argue that they aren't.

(00:28:38):
But at the same time, then GLP-1s came along and blew those out of the water.

(00:28:44):
I mean, I think GLP-1s are something that...

(00:28:49):
that have started to cost a lot of money.

(00:28:53):
And I think they cause a lot of emotional conversations and it's one thing with a

(00:28:59):
CFO to say yes or no,

(00:29:01):
but HR is over here going,

(00:29:02):
we need this,

(00:29:03):
right?

(00:29:05):
Yeah, that's right.

(00:29:06):
And I mean,

(00:29:08):
You want to pay attention to your GLP ones.

(00:29:10):
It's can be a huge spin for you,

(00:29:13):
but that prep drug is probably your number two,

(00:29:16):
number three drug on your list right now.

(00:29:18):
I mean,

(00:29:18):
that's what we are seeing with some employers and they just came out with a new

(00:29:23):
injectable.

(00:29:24):
That's great.

(00:29:25):
It lasts longer 21 or sorry, $27,000 per injection.

(00:29:27):
So I just like GLP ones you want to pay attention to, but

(00:29:37):
the pharmacy costs and other categories are creeping up as everybody's focused on

(00:29:42):
glp1 so you really need a partner that is making sure that you're in a good spot if

(00:29:48):
you're the employer paying for these listen i want to thank you for being with me

(00:29:56):
today um it's it's uh to see you and reconnect and such a bright spot of knowledge

(00:30:04):
and i really appreciate your level of

(00:30:07):
detail and everything you know.

(00:30:09):
And I'd love to have you back to continue this conversation on some of these other topics.

(00:30:13):
Would you be interested in that?

(00:30:15):
That would be great, Vinny.

(00:30:16):
It's always so fun having conversations with you.

(00:30:19):
I'm so glad that we've been able to stay in touch for so many years.

(00:30:24):
So it's a great podcast and I'm happy for you.

(00:30:27):
I see you doing big things.

(00:30:29):
So yeah, just let me know.

(00:30:31):
No, I appreciate it.

(00:30:33):
So as we talked earlier,

(00:30:35):
I'm not going to ask you about wine,

(00:30:37):
but I will ask you about vacation spots.

(00:30:39):
So, you know, I know you live in Vegas, but where is your favorite vacation spot?

(00:30:45):
Yeah,

(00:30:46):
so in Vegas,

(00:30:47):
we don't necessarily need sunny vacation spots,

(00:30:50):
but we do all travel in the summer.

(00:30:52):
That's the best time to get out of Vegas.

(00:30:55):
So my favorite vacation spot is actually Seattle, Washington.

(00:30:59):
I just love the summers there and the weather in the summer.

(00:31:03):
So that would be our family's favorite spot.

(00:31:06):
No,

(00:31:06):
I remember living in Seattle for some years and,

(00:31:10):
you know,

(00:31:11):
there was two seasons back in the mid 80s.

(00:31:13):
It was like rainy and then amazingly beautiful during the summer.

(00:31:18):
I mean, July, August and into September.

(00:31:20):
I tell you what, couldn't it be a more beautiful place to be?

(00:31:24):
I agree.

(00:31:25):
Well, it's been so great on your podcast, Benny.

(00:31:28):
Thank you for having me.

(00:31:29):
Thank you, Ferrin.

(00:31:30):
I appreciate you.

(00:31:31):
And we'll talk again.

(00:31:34):
This podcast reflects the personal views of the host and guests,

(00:31:38):
not their employers or sponsors.

(00:31:41):
See you next time.