This is a Metaphor
There are so many ways to be a person. This Is A Metaphor is what happens when a curious creative can’t stop connecting dots. Life hands you a breakup, a bird call, a bagel? Boom. That’s a metaphor. This show isn’t therapy, and it isn’t theater, but it is art. It’s an existential treasure hunt—with jokes. Hosted by Mo Houston, a sharp-witted, soul-deep storyteller who views life through many lenses. She who knows the world makes sense… if you squint really hard. She’s lived out of suitcases and studios, built brands and burned out, laughed onstage and cried in voice notes. This podcast is kind of a memoir, a mirror, and definitely a metaphor.
This is a Metaphor
Render Me This w/Matt Lathrom
They came for Visual Effects, but stayed for coffee shop politics. On this episode Mo chats with fellow creative, and friend, Matt Lathrom. Agencies thin out while indie film gets louder, scrappier, and—somehow—more fun. Lathrom, a multi-hyphenate VFX artist and producer whose credits include HBO, Netflix, and a growing list of indie features aiming at Sundance. Together they get candid about the gap between plan and reality, the strange relief of admitting you’re done for the day, and the gravity of trust when deadlines tighten.
Mo & Matt pull apart what makes creative collaboration work: leaders who ask questions instead of prescribing, teams that reward taste over tweaks, and the difference between micromanagement and meaningful direction. Matt shares where he finds the most freedom on set and in post, why some shows invite you to invent while others reduce you to a cursor, and how letting go can unlock better work. They also look upstream, at the industry’s bigger shifts—studio consolidation, the indie boom’s artistic payoff but thinner paychecks, and the evergreen tug-of-war between art and business that dates back to Wenders, Lucas, and Spielberg.
This is part 1
TIMESTAMPS, BABY
0:00 – Matt
2:36 – Sundance
6:48 – Meltdowns
9:06 – Time vs Reality
15:10 – Perfectionism
18:10 – Client vs Personal
26:20 – Dry Spells
32:20 – Community
36:40 – Recession
52:12 – AI (The Horror. The Brilliance! The Audacity)
Instagram: @this.is.a.metaphor & @joyscout.mo
Email Mo: mo@joyscoutstudio.com
Cover Design by: Joyscout Studio // For commissioned art & design inquiries: Joyscout Studio
“Don’t get Deterred, get Inspired”
This guest today is a wildly talented, really artful creative mind. His name is Matt Lithrom, and he does quite a few things, but very notably right now he's working on special effects, visual effects, and he is a visual effects artist, like supervisor, he is a visual effects producer. I mean, he does uh he's he's had a lot of experience and he's worked with brands like HBO and Netflix, so a screenwriter, and he is you know multidisciplined. And I always find that I love our conversations, and so I knew I mean he's on this for for a while that I wanted to record one, and I surprisingly think I got nervous on this one, and that's okay, but I want another opportunity to talk when I know more about how I'm going about this, because I think when I talk with people so genuinely for my day-to-day, the conversations become so whatever they need to be, whether it's funny or or with depth or with just uh a fun perspective that I'm like, wow, that would be a great podcast conversation. And yet when you are put onto the stage and you know, presented with the medium and inside of it, it always changes a little bit. And I'm still learning how and how to navigate and how to show up really and genuinely as myself and really to slow down. I get so excited when I talk. It's much easier for me to talk in this way. Um, but when I talk to other people, I'm pretty much a 12-year-old, and that is probably genuine. However, I will I will I will I will learn and I will I will grow. This conversation with Matt is there's no real focus other than that we're two artists, I think, talking about art, which is amazing because his perspective is so uh wonderful, and he has really been a part of of the film industry for a considerable amount of years, over ten years, I think, and talking with him about it is just an extreme guilty pleasure. Here is Matt. How are you on this fine LA evening?
SPEAKER_04:You actually caught me on a really good day. It's like very productive and uh positive and chill, I guess.
SPEAKER_00:Has it not been that way?
SPEAKER_04:No, not at all. I'm like, there's like everybody's trying to hit Sundance Film Festival right now, and so there's like four projects I'm juggling right now trying to help them get there. It's a whole thing. There's an indie movie that's like a bunch of long shots of it's like a couple that walks through LA, they go through like Silver Lake and Echo Park and a bunch of stuff and fall in love on their way. And then there's a rom com sci-fi about alien abductions. No, it's like a rom com with a sprinkle of sci-fi. I'm kind of like jumping between them very quickly. Are you? I'll get an email and someone will be like, Oh, I need this. And I'll be like, okay, let me do that really quick, and then I'll have to like hop off that and get something else. So but today was very productive, so that was cool.
SPEAKER_00:Is that the way your workflow is usually?
SPEAKER_04:Like, do you feel like you work better from project to project and you kind of stay in the state, or do you like compartmentalizing like I am always in a state of juggling projects because you know I don't work for a company, it's just freelance, so I kind of have to take on whatever comes to me. And so I'm always I don't know that I prefer it, but I seem to have made it work. I'm a little ADD, so I guess jumping between projects is kind of nice. If I get bored, a lot of times I'll be working on one that's like really mind-numbing, so I'll hop off that one and then go do one that's like a little more stimulating. Well, actually, really quick, how are you? Like, we jumped right into me. How are you?
SPEAKER_00:I know, I just want to know. I'm doing really good. I had a really similar, like, actually, I feel the exact same way when it comes to the productivity train.
SPEAKER_04:Um, you know that life.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I I would say if you caught me like a week ago, honestly, if you caught me three days ago, I would probably be like a little unhinged a little bit because I had a lot of feelings come up, I think, about my own um process. I, you know, I try I started to work on a painting over the weekend. And a minute.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, yeah, I saw you posted about that.
SPEAKER_00:I and I despised it. And I I mean, I that's a really heavy word, but that's how I felt. And I think it's okay to say that because when you know when you know what you're capable of and you know how you want it to go, and it none of those things happened, you know. There's kind of like angry dad at the soccer game or something. Like that's who I became where I was like, what are you doing out there? Like it was you don't get it together. And and I just and then I realized that the like I had a plan going in to this painting. I had a plan. I had a mock-up that I had spent very little time on. And I think it's weird. Like, plans are weird like that. Like I thought that it would be this thing that would send me into a really well done. I thought, you know, all morning long, I thought I would start a painting and then finish and it'd be golden. And then it turns out that that didn't really happen at all. And I just couldn't like let go. And it took all day. It literally took all day, and I didn't want to stop because I was like, You, your literal goal was to finish this. So guess what? Like, this is what you're doing all day, Morgan. And I just became very unhinged about it. And then I just think I had a little bit of a breakdown because it uh, you know, I was like, for what? Like, what are you doing this for? And and a lot of emotions came up, I think, that were honestly just old motion emotions that I thought I'd worked through as a person, and then they were right there to greet me. And I think I like yesterday and today, coming off of that feeling from the weekend, I was like, I don't really want to feel that way anymore. You know, like that's an that's an old feeling, and I don't want to feel that way. Like, and it's okay, obviously, to freak out. I definitely welcoming myself to freak out.
SPEAKER_04:Is it like a creative insecurity pushing through difficult projects kind of feeling?
SPEAKER_00:Uh, that's a good question. It I think it's I think it's that it wasn't a difficult project. And so I thought it would be very simple. And suddenly, then why can't I get this done? Why is it not? Yeah, and it was like this thing that you know that you can do, but also I hadn't done it before. Like it was a style that I thought I would just like step into and it would make sense, and then I could keep doing it. And and it was like, you know, like I really the truth is that like you know that when you're trying something new, no matter what you know about your own practice, like when you're incorporating something a little bit new, like you have to give yourself some space, maybe, because it's probably not gonna go the way that you think it's gonna go. And I thought, like, I just saw myself stroke in this background, and it just turns out that that took like five hours to do, you know? And I thought in my mind, I was like, this will be like 45 minutes to an hour, and it made me, it just made me lose my mind, I think.
SPEAKER_04:So I can relate to that. There's like often say to people, like when I'm uh bidding out a project or something, I'll say, you know, it's always kind of I never know until I'm in it. You know, this shot that I'm looking at right now that might I might think it'll take you know 30 minutes or an hour ends up taking me three days because there was some complication I couldn't just eyeball. And then sometimes I'll look at a shot and be like, man, that's gonna be hard. And I just bang it out in like a few hours and I'm like, whoa.
SPEAKER_00:I just like I think it's it's does it ever ruin your day though?
SPEAKER_04:Absolutely. I go through absolutely, yeah. No, I always okay because I I've worked on some pretty intense projects with some teams, like very tight small teams, but I'll even vocalize to them. I'm like, oh, I'm in the part of the project where I feel like I have failed and it will never get done, and this is the end of my career. And I was like, but don't worry, in a few days it will be done and it will be successful. So it's like the feelings will never stop coming up. But I at least like recognize them when they do.
SPEAKER_00:I had a a friend check in when I, you know, like on Saturday when I was working on this, and he checked in to see how it was going, and you know, and I was like, oh, you know, I'm just having a miniature meltdown, but it's all part of the process. And you like, you know, and that was at the beginning of the feeling, but it just got so much more just a detrimental state of mind. But it it is, it is like you freak out, but sometimes surprising how far one can freak out, I think.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I constantly surprise myself how much I can freak out. I mean, like I'll wait. It's weird too, because you'll sometimes like start a thing, and in the morning you're in like pure meltdown mode, and by the afternoon you've sorted it out, and you're like, oh, that whole thing that I thought was gonna end the world really took a few hours of just piddling around to get sorted.
SPEAKER_00:Do you feel like you would rather start on a bad note or end on a bad note when it comes to like the day?
SPEAKER_04:I would much rather start on a bad note. At least I can do something about it. I can be like, okay, by lunch, I'm gonna try to have this done. I'm gonna at least send some emails so that I'm communicating if I'm not delivering. And then I instead of like going to bed and being like, well, tomorrow's gonna suck because everything sucks right now, it's better to have a day to fix that if I can.
SPEAKER_00:If you like, let's say you had a project that was due in a couple of days, and maybe the day didn't end where you thought it was. Like, would you allow yourself to go to bed? Or would it just be like, uh, I guess we're in it, you know, all night into the morning. Like, you know, would you which would you which would you choose?
SPEAKER_04:Uh it's less about choosing some I feel like my brain just shuts down. Does yours do that?
SPEAKER_00:Like, I'm just like, Wait, you mean like you have to get it done, or like you just yeah, we're good here.
SPEAKER_04:Well, it's like there's not an ounce, there's just like not an ounce of creativity or productivity to milk out of me anymore. And I'm just like, well, I guess I'm going to bed.
SPEAKER_00:Did you learn that?
SPEAKER_04:It's not even a choice.
SPEAKER_00:Did you learn that? Okay. So I can I feel like some people, especially creatives, they take a while to learn that sometimes you need space. Like, you know, like you've been working on this for seven hours, and it's like you're just gonna fuck this now. Like it's not gonna get any better, and you have to step away. But like I know so many people that I think would just keep like working through it, and I'm like, but what are you what are you doing? Like you it's just not how it works. Like, I don't think that's how it works. Maybe it works for some people.
SPEAKER_04:It sounds like you have a healthy uh way of responding to difficult projects.
SPEAKER_00:Maybe I do. Maybe I've really grown as a person. Well, I think that's why Saturday was such a it was like two intense values of mine just coming head to head. And the one was like discipline in your craft, where you kind of have to understand at one point that if you want it to get done, you're gonna have to finish it, you know. Like you have to show up and maybe you can fix it later, or like just you know, maybe shut the fuck up and finish it. And that I don't talk to myself that way too much anymore. But when that voice does come out, like there's something in me where it's like, I think there's something that is to learn here in finishing it versus like perfecting it. And yeah, that yeah, and so it was just like two values coming to a head very loudly for me. And the one was you know, don't think positively and you can set this down and you can try again tomorrow. And the other part was like, no, you had one goal literally, which was to start and finish. Like it was like the fluidity of knowing that when you begin, you can also have the like privilege, I guess, of of finishing it in the same day. Because I don't honestly, I feel like that's never happened with the painting ever, so I don't know what the fuck I was thinking, but I thought it was doable. I really just truly thought that it was gonna happen. Oh no.
SPEAKER_04:That's right, you learned something.
SPEAKER_00:I did learn something.
SPEAKER_04:I gotta say, I'm I am inspired by how much space you make for personal projects, because I make almost no space for personal projects, and I wish that I did. It's something I'm because you have clients.
SPEAKER_00:You have clients, I think, which is like I am sure if I had more clients and more projects, I would not have as much space for my own, which is like a blessing, I'm sure, but also, you know, a little more balance I would appreciate.
SPEAKER_04:Well, I mean, I feel like you've always made some space. I'm talking like I've made like zero space for personal projects.
SPEAKER_00:Um you do so much, though. And the studio in itself, I feel like is a massive personal project for you. I think so. A culmination.
SPEAKER_04:It's just not something where it's like it's not always something that's a visual thing that you can be like, here it is. It's more admin and heady.
SPEAKER_00:Maybe the studio or your kind of work.
SPEAKER_04:Like if I'm working on a studio, it's like maybe I can show you the website or something, but yeah. It's uh it's an institution, not so much a a work. I guess it is definitely not an institution, it's an LLC.
SPEAKER_00:It is it is an institution. What about Script Slug though? I feel like that's a massive personal project.
SPEAKER_04:That's uh have for context, Script Slug is a screenwriting website that I run. Um uh where we post the latest screen, like uh professionally produced screenplays, TV shows, movies, and stuff for people to go read and see how they're written. Um it's been on ice for like six months or something. I've been running it solo for like seven years and this year just got crazy. So I Oh actually. I'm sorry to interrupt you, but it it Yes, it I'm sorry to interrupt, but you made me think of something this year being crazy. I didn't realize you were planning to move or come to LA early this year. I heard that in your and one of your podcasts that you said, oh, I was gonna go, and then it set on fire. I was like, what?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, we didn't talk about that. That was I the the week before I was like gonna go out there with a friend of mine. Yeah, that's when the you know, that's when the fire started. And and you know, I wasn't gonna look too far into that as a metaphor for myself, but it was really hard not to, you know. I just was like, it just seems like this is not supposed to happen right now, and then you know, obviously a very devastating time, and I'm not gonna say too much on making it about myself, but um, it was crazy that that happened as we were planning to do it, and I don't know. Like I was gonna go, I think it was just another one of those moments where in my mind, in the creative brain, I was gonna be ready in the chariot. The studio is gonna be like ready to to go out there, even if she was a little unfinished still. I was like, just fine. You know, my friends were like, dude, you just gotta do this, you just gotta go. And then that happened, and it was like I wasn't ready. I wasn't ready anyways. I wasn't ready anyways, like so much, so much went down. And the choice was made for me. No, I wasn't gonna move move at all. It was definitely just gonna be like it was gonna be a month long, and the month that I was going was like, this is not the month to come, so maybe check back. And yeah, yeah, I don't know. Definitely not the month to come. It was not, it was not, but isn't that wild how sometimes you know decisions are just made for you?
SPEAKER_04:I find that very often decisions are just made for me.
SPEAKER_00:By the fates.
SPEAKER_04:By the fates, by luck, chance, fates, whatever.
SPEAKER_00:What was one of the last decisions you feel like what was what was one of the last personal decisions that was kind of like outside of your hands? Man, I didn't think I'm gonna talk about it.
SPEAKER_04:Dude, um, let me think.
SPEAKER_00:Maybe that's a good thing though.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I mean, I don't I don't agonize over it too much. You know, you take ownership of it, so in the end it feels kind of like your decision. You had to react to it and make a decision.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think there's a difference between choices and decisions.
SPEAKER_04:No, actually, I lied. The studio thing was the studio thing was definitely a little out of my hands.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:I did what I could do.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you just responded.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_00:Um I I made a note to to talk about because uh this was like honestly, this could have been a year ago that we talked about this. But we talked about the concept of like living a full-bodied life, and I think about that so often. And it was something that you had said about a friend of yours that was, you know, getting into like acting and and was revolving. He was kind of seeing the industry changing a lot, and he felt like he was kind of going backwards a tiny bit, maybe, because he like had to pick up serving, but at the same time, it was like also living this life exactly as he wanted to be living it, you know, like being able to to to try out and to audition and to to act and to that, you know, he's doing all these other things as well. And I don't know, you know, I don't remember a lot about your friend, but I just remembered the concept of a full-bodied life, like, you know, of how right now the industry's crazy creatively, I think, across the board. And it's like leaves so much space between you and the concept of what you are that you get to be always other things, and it's kind of exciting.
SPEAKER_04:Exciting, scary, all that. By the way, that friend, um, you can now see him on movies theater screens in the commercial for the Indeed job finding website.
SPEAKER_01:That's very exciting.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I was like, oh, dude. I took a picture and snapped it to him. Look at you, buddy. He's doing it.
SPEAKER_01:That's very exciting.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Um, a long dry spell, too. Yeah, he was went through a long dry spell too. Like, and he never stopped serving, but he just recently started picking up some commercials and stuff, and that's been really cool.
SPEAKER_00:I do you feel like do you serve is there something that you do that you feel like is like you're serving, and it you know, it doesn't have to be like God related or necessarily restaurant related, but like the act of serving. Like there's something that you do that is kind of outside of of film and creativity, or so no, it's just something that you feel that you do for a common good. And it could be micro, it could be like micro level.
SPEAKER_04:Um, I mean, I donate to the Electronic Frontier Foundation.
SPEAKER_01:What is that?
SPEAKER_04:Uh it's a foundation that fights for digital rights and privacy and all that good stuff.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. I like their mission because I feel that maybe digital technology has gone a little off the rails. What do you mean?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Well, I mean uh, you know, companies can take as much of their data as they as much as your data as they want and do whatever they want with it and sell it and manipulate it and whatever. And I feel like maybe we should have a little ownership over that data since it is ours after all.
SPEAKER_01:So I like their mission.
SPEAKER_04:They they push back against weird ledger slation and stuff like that. And then I donate to the L A C L U. As far as like in-life little goods, I try to make friends like I try to make friends at places that I'm a regular. Pizza places, coffee places. Everybody's like know someone's Yeah, another name. Everybody's so much about business and get in and out, it's nice to take like a little beat and say hey and have a little chat.
SPEAKER_00:Do you feel like the LA coffee shop is far more like that than maybe other coffee shops, or do you think that that's like coffee shops in general where people are in their zone? Hmm.
SPEAKER_04:Beats me, man. I don't know.
SPEAKER_00:Uh I guess I have a lot of opinions on coffee shops.
SPEAKER_04:I want to hear them. Uh I I LA coffee shops are I guess it depends on what part of town you're in, I think.
SPEAKER_00:Ooh, okay.
SPEAKER_04:What are you hit me with your like coffee shop hot takes?
SPEAKER_00:I just know, coming off of a very recent experience, like there's a there's a shop that I love to go to in St. Pete here that I mean it's just one of the coolest coffee shops I I know of, and the sense of like you'll wait 20 minutes to to get inside of this coffee shop because the line's so long. And I'm like, I would there's nowhere, there's nowhere else that I would wait 20 minutes for coffee because I really want coffee. And yet it's like part of the culture, and I like that about it.
SPEAKER_04:Is it the coffee or the vibe?
SPEAKER_00:The coffee's delicious. They've they have a kitchen there, like they have really good food, but it's like the people, it's excellent people watching. It's a good location. Um, and they the way that they the entrepreneurship behind what they do is really exciting. But all that aside, like all the things that I love about it, for whatever reason, me myself is not like I just can't like get up in there. Like I can't, I want to, I wanna so be friends with just like everyone that works there. And they just maybe they just have to be extra shielded because maybe everybody does, and they just don't give a fuck. But I always feel so jaded.
SPEAKER_04:Like, I yeah, I just I feel like you even try with like little comments, like I like your hair or whatever.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and I think that they're pretty friendly there, like because I go there so often that they're they're so they're so like kind, but also it's the level, it's one before. Whatever it's one before, what's the word like when you're not authentic? Like, I'm not saying they're not being authentic, but like we're not gonna go any farther. Like they'll they'll know my name and they'll ask how I am, and it seems genuine enough, but then it's like, eh, this is where we get your coffee, and I'm like, fine, fine, don't tell me about your life, we won't hang out afterwards. Yeah, commercialism, capitalism? I don't know.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's it's got its grips on us.
SPEAKER_00:It's got a it feels a little high school-y, you know. I am I I just want to get up in there. Yeah, there's there's some teenage version of me that's just like dang it, you know, like I laid all my cool cards and I don't have any cool cards left, and now they know all my cards.
SPEAKER_04:I like it that there's some some shops I go to where I'm like, man, I just cannot get a nice interaction out of you guys. Like, I'm I've tried multiple approaches, like bubbly and nice, uh straight to the point. Like, I can't I've getting you're giving me nothing.
SPEAKER_00:You're you're I've maybe I've never I've never known you to be unkind. Obviously, like I don't feel like that's been a version of you that I've gotten to to know, but is there that everything that you would do out of a coffee shop? Is there a moment where can someone on the other side of the counter be rude enough to you that you would lose it, you know? Or at the end of the day, are you just there for coffee or croissant or whatever?
SPEAKER_04:I mean, I guess there's always something. Like if they spit in my face, I'll probably get mad, but um I might just be shocked. But no, not really. I mean, they're also, you know, they're service workers. That's a tough job, and they're encountering probably a lot of difficult people. So if it's a busy place, it might just be the clientele. I don't know.
SPEAKER_00:It's fine, Matt.
SPEAKER_04:Or maybe it's the people that work. I mean, hey, it could be both. Maybe it's just at that point I'm just like, I just want my it's fine.
SPEAKER_00:There's a lot of there's a lot of good coffee here though. So but I feel like when you find your spot, you just find your spot, and then that's when you become that person. Then that and if they don't want to be your friend after their shift, it's fine, and you shouldn't keep complaining about it.
SPEAKER_04:And then one day when they finally do, it's gonna be a pleasant surprise.
SPEAKER_00:It's gonna I it'll blow my like I have transcended. Like I this is like this is Morgan like 3.0 type thing, you know, like this is like the next level of the game that I've been playing. Like just when you're about to give up, someone asked for your Instagram or something.
SPEAKER_04:Right. And oh man, that's like so it's almost so anti-spiritual. It's like, and then I was at my darkest moment, and then they asked me for my at. Um what is this world we're living in?
SPEAKER_00:And then they DM'd me, hey, and I was like, fuck. Yeah, they dm me if you're not you're not you're not really not anywhere.
SPEAKER_04:I gotta ask. Um you mentioned the struggle. What is it like out there for a creative like you? I mean, I know it's rough for everybody, like everybody's out of the job, every industry's going through it. What's what's going on over there right now?
SPEAKER_00:I feel like people aren't talking about it. I just hear about it from the people who um are in a moment of like connection, I guess. I don't know if that's abstract, but like, you know, there's a couple of agencies um that I used to work with that I am friends with or, you know, somehow third degree see the Instagram or the social of whatever's going on inside of their world. And, you know, a lot of people have been let go. Like a lot of agencies have like downsized a lot this year. Like, and I'll see posts every other day from someone's like, hey, I've got a couple friends who are looking for a connection. Like, if you have any leads, and it doesn't matter if you're, you know, they're copywriters or you know, graphic designers or you know, videographers. I think honestly, photographers are always kind of struggling unless you really have your niche and you know you know what you do. But um, and that's not to to shoot on photographers. I just feel like there's a lot of photographers right now, so it's very competitive. But I guess that's the side that I'm seeing, but I'm also seeing entrepreneurship in the Bay, like in the Tampa Bay area, is booming. Like it's crazy. And what kind of entrepreneurship? Just like people with ideas just popping up, and like everything is very uh people people oriented, like there's so many groups popping up that's like you know, there's girls who walk Tampa Bay and like there's just like just hordes of girls will show up to like do this like night walk or like go get dinner or like pick play pickleball, and there's you know, there's like cold club coffee, cold tub coffee club, I cannot say words, and they'll just meet on Sundays and just do you know ice baths and coffee and cold brew, and you'll get like a B12 shot, and there's just a group for everything now. Like there's books, there's different types of meetups for for reading, or in there's I mean, I think it's happening all across the country, but it's especially happening here like very organically, like not even like a sister chapter, but like something started here, and it just seems very people based. And that's exciting. And I know that there's a lot of room there for like individual storytelling, and you know, if you're into brand design, you can work, you could probably really connect with people. Um but I It's just it's just weird. Like I just I haven't really put my finger on it, but I do know that everybody wants to connect. And so maybe the name of the game is just different. And it's far I feel like it's it's like nepotism revival in a very different way, where it's like, oh yeah, my let me get my friend for you, or like, let me so-and-so. It's so much more like I don't care about who does what. I want to know if I know them or if you know them. You know, that that's what I've been sensing. I don't know if that translates for you.
SPEAKER_04:Well, that makes sense. I think you know, the whole the world where you can send a cold email or walk into a place with a resume and get a job is over. It's all about networking and getting recommendations and things like that. I've noticed a pretty big indie boom in the film industry over here lately. Everything I'm working on right now is indie, um, which is creatively fulfilling and also way more chill, but does not pay great. Uh this I've I was like talking to another friend of mine who's an editor today, and I was like, dude, I'm working so much and making so little right now. He's like, dude, me too. I was doing this and this and that. We're like, I love it because it's all great indie stuff, but definitely need those uh you know branded projects every now and then to make sure I can survive.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. The do you do you think sacrifice is a big part of right now in the industry? Like sacrifice for the sake of work or working or doing things that you love, because you definitely do what you love. I mean, that's palpable.
SPEAKER_04:I do love visual effects, yes. And I think right now it is completely nebulous. There's like no answer. It is in such an insane state of flux right now. Both, you know, uh politically, structurally everything. I mean I just heard uh news the other day that uh um Paramount is gonna put in a bid to acquire uh Warner Brothers or to merge with Warner Brothers, which would be insane. I mean, two of the biggest studios merging, and like that hasn't already been happening. I mean, Amazon owns MGM.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Uh that how do you feel about that? I mean, that to me sounds really sad, but um it's not great.
SPEAKER_04:It's just more consolidation, fewer voices, uh, more cost cutting and optimization. It feels you know what gave me hope though? I've been I two things. I watched this movie and and read a book. Uh the movie's called Room 666, Room 999, and it's a Vim vendors movie, and he's interviewing filmmakers, filmmaker friends of his. I think it was in the 80s. I'd have to double check that. But they were making the same complaints and had the exact same struggles that we have right now. He interviews Spielberg, and Spielberg says, you know, it's a tough time with the inflation in the industry. You know, I made ET a few years back, and if I were to make it now, it would cost double what it cost me then. And then I was reading this book um about George Lucas and his effect on the industry, and him and Francis Ford Coppola were trying to, you know, liberate themselves from the studios and have more creative control so they could make real art. And I'm like, this is just a struggle that goes on forever. It is the struggle that defines the art. It's always a push and pull between art and business. And sometimes the business is overtaking the art, and sometimes the art is, you know, flourishing. It's always going back and forth.
SPEAKER_00:They it's hard. I think, yeah, they kind of have to coexist together. Because even in you know, the world of content creation, there's so much push and pull between you know, the niche of an audience, and then and then the the rules of the game of like just engagement. And and then I think when you get to a certain level of because not some like a lot of content creation is quite genuine, but also you get to a level when if you're genuine and authentic enough, you start having a massive following, and then brands want to work with you, and then people want to work with you, and then you start having a voice, and then you start having responsibilities with your platform, and then suddenly you are watching what you say, and like you know, and money comes into play, and like where are you getting your money? Who's sponsoring you? Like, why are you talking about this? You know, and it just I think, yeah, when you're good at what you do, people want to support you, but also like I'm not gonna support you if you're gonna, you know, talk shit about so-and-so, because and then yeah, I think it's it's very complicated. I guess the idea of self-funding is probably the next frontier, which is exciting.
SPEAKER_04:Self-funding in this economy?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Or or you know, cult. We could all join a cult. You know it's possible.
SPEAKER_04:You know, maybe like self-funding seeking. Because I know out here a lot of what people are doing is they're just finding individual investors and um, like uh not a good Samaritan.
SPEAKER_00:What's the uh like a true benefactor? Like renaissance or benefactors. What's the the Renaissance type term where you've got a patron um patrons. Patrons, thank you. Patrons. There's a whole platform you've got. I know I wanted to say Patreon, but I'm like, that's not it. Patrons of the arts. Yeah, to be a true patron. Like that, you know? I where are the patrons?
SPEAKER_04:Where are they at?
SPEAKER_00:Where are the where are the patrons at? I will be able to do that. It's us.
SPEAKER_04:It's us patronizing each other right now, like a bunch of individuals subscribing to each other's Patreons and giving each other. I'm like, where's where's the Zuckerberg Grand Library and the the you know Gates 100 foot skyscraper? Like, why aren't these people building infrastructure for us? Come on, they got the money.
SPEAKER_01:You know.
SPEAKER_04:Why aren't there movies at the end? Special thanks to Jeff Bezos. Come on,$30 million for a movie that ain't nothing. That's pocket change.
SPEAKER_00:If you watch the movie on the moon, I'm sure it'll say thanks, Jeff Bezos, but other than that.
SPEAKER_04:Have you seen that clip of him after the space flight where um uh William Shatner is trying, is like very deeply pensive and struck by the experience and is trying to articulate it to him. And then he like totally blows him off and goes, Let's get the champagne, and like pops a bottle. That's so tragic. And then you see William Shatler, Shatner totally deflated. You're like, oh man, this dude just you know, the star of Star Trek just went to space and he wants to talk about it. And then the dude's like, Let's pop a bottle.
SPEAKER_00:I wonder if that was just that moment where he was like, Oh, you're just like they said you were. Like, you know, he's like, What have I done?
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_00:You're not on the stage, Billy. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Well, it sounds like it's interesting over there. I mean, I don't do the same kind of art you do. Uh, you do your branding design, all that. I'm I'm just VFX shots, so but I feel like we're all feeling the same thing. No one's getting jobs, things are things are getting wild out there. It's a struggle.
SPEAKER_00:It's definitely a different time entirely. But I mean, I don't know. I it's like that pendulum thing where something like magical has to come from it. And I, you know, I'm super curious as to what that magic is gonna be. But I mean, do you think LA will be new again? Like, you think there's gonna be a renaissance in that sense? Like that, especially with the indie. I mean, an indie revival is kind of the Phoenix Rising, isn't it?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I think that like over, you know, because the strikes were happening and because of the fires and everything that was going on, people were like, well, no one's making anything, so fuck it. I'm gonna write my thing and I'm gonna make it. And so I've seen, I mean, I have a I did some work on a movie from my friend Sarah and uh that my friend Sarah produced, and they like got 20 grand and shot it over weekends. And it's cool. It's so cool. You know, obviously it's a 20 grand movie because they only had so much to work with as far as production value, but I watched and I was like, hell yeah, this is fun. The director was cool. He let me be creative and just was like, yeah, it looks great. Let's do it.
SPEAKER_00:What is being creative for you and in that with the reins? Like, how does that get to show itself for you? Um It depends.
SPEAKER_04:You know, if I'm doing some crazy visual effects, like, oh, we need an explosion in the sky, or you know, we need some crazy retro looking graphics for a fake TV show, then you know, they'll give me a vibe. Like I think it should look kind of like this, or they'll give me some inspiration and reference and let me run with it. Most it's I'd say honestly, it's about 75-25. Like 75% of the time I get a pretty good amount of creative freedom. 25% of the time it's like, do it exactly like this.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Like on the show, Sherman Showcase, um, the creators, Diallo and Bashir, gave me like so much creative freedom. It was just like, we want something that looks kind of like I think they were actually probably pleased that they didn't have to stand over my shoulder and direct me the whole time because they got to focus on the stuff they enjoyed, like the music and the and the dancing and all the other stuff in the show.
SPEAKER_00:I feel like when people don't watch over you, uh first of all, they've maybe worked with you before, but also like perspective and trust come into play, I think, when someone's like had a lot of different roles in their lifetime. And like if anybody's done, if they've worked with like a lot of people, I feel like you can start to like sense competence or like yeah, maybe you can like let go a little bit and actually enjoy yeah, enjoy yourself, like enjoy letting someone rise to the occasion and do their job well. And I think some people never learn to just like let go and allow someone to do their job well, and it's kind of a totally missed opportunity because it's like I don't know, can you work well when someone is just that surprises me for you too? Because, like, you know, when we've worked together, you are, and I've said this before, you're so yeah, you're you're totally just like take the reins, and you've got like some of the best feedback I've ever been given, and you're such a joy to work with, and you have, you know, obviously an artistic brain, and you're you're so well, you're so articulate and supportive in your your review, and I feel like you ask questions rather than statements, and so I don't know. I it's always it's just always enjoyable. I'm sure it's another facet of why I so enjoy just talking with you in general. But I mean, can you work that way though? Like, do you I mean I guess so, especially if someone is like, hey, this is exactly what I want. Does that hinder you?
SPEAKER_04:I used I feel like I used to get very pissy about it. Like, I I think that from the outside, people would probably not say that I was being very pissy, but internally I was feeling that way. And maybe I can I can recall there was a a season of a show I worked on where the producer the post-producer I really liked wasn't on this season and he was on previous seasons, and it was just not as cool of an environment. And I was getting this really weirdly specific feedback that I was like, why does this matter? And I I can recall a few times getting like a little sarcastic with an editor or something. Um, I felt bad about it afterward. It wasn't that big a deal, it was more just like making a little smart ass remark. But it was because they were honing in on things that didn't matter, and I was trying to get them to focus on things that did matter and couldn't get their focus. So it was frustrating me a little bit. There was also the post-producer on that one was looking at me very skeptically the whole time and like treated me like I didn't know what I was doing. It was weird, it was a weird environment. So yeah, every now and then if somebody's really watching over my shoulder, it can get a little uh but I've also gotten to the point where I've internalized and been like, this is your job, you're here because these people do not have the ability to realize their vision, and some of them have a very specific one, and so if I can make that happen for them, that's cool.
SPEAKER_00:You wield your power kindly. You I mean, you have quite a bit of power in that situation, which I guess is probably why some people, you know, maybe certain types of of people that you work with would not want someone in your position to like remember about themselves. Like you have quite a bit of power. Because they can't do what you're doing, which is kind of a lot of people, I think a lot of people forget that yeah, the person who's making the recommendation very much needs you because you know how to do something that they don't know how to do.
SPEAKER_04:You know, I feel it's a little different for you though, because I've been on the other end of it. You know, I used to do web design and more graphic design stuff, and it is harder as far as feedback goes than doing visual effects. Like visual effects, there's an element of people are just wowed that you did a thing on video. And so there's a little more freedom, but I feel like everybody thinks they're a logo expert, and everybody thinks they're a design expert, and everybody everybody's got a hot take or an opinion, and that's why I was just like when I worked with you, I'm just like, I'm gonna let you do your thing.
SPEAKER_00:I I would say that I've been I'm pretty fortunate with how I work with the clients that I've worked with by my own by my own choice. Um and I think like I learned by working in commercial environments that like man, honestly, clients usually if you get to talk to the client, like they usually were very fond of me. They usually liked me. The person who I always was so surprised that I had to like fend off was usually the AE that is um, you know, like always has an opinion about what they told the client that the client was gonna get. And it's like, you don't do this shit, dude. You don't like why we don't even offer that, you know? And I especially when I was at the media group for a long time, there was, you know, I was making uh ad campaigns for the advertisements that were totally of my own volition, my own concept, my own idea. Like you're starting from scratch and you're just excited about the opportunity to do this thing, and then they would come in and be like, but what if instead of this it did this? And I was like, you know, and I would just I would like keep it together, just keep it together.
SPEAKER_04:Like, but that's not what it does, it does this.
SPEAKER_00:And I feel like that's the same person that now like pushes out AI, like the first round of AI when the hands were bonkers, they would be like, Look what I made, and I would and it's like, look at the fucking hands, but that was the same person that to me would be like, Why did you make it do this? Like, what is this supposed to be? But it like I made that, you know, like I spent hours of my time making this thing, which is kind of crazy, and it's like very much a little kid. Like, they I think that when you get that type of pushback, you suddenly have to like you're talking to a child in a way, and I'm like, I can't be mean to you because you literally have no idea what you're talking about, but you're saying it like such a dick that it's very hard for me to not also be, you know. I remember I would send emails, like I would not hold back. If someone sent me an email like demanding where creative was or something, I would every time I'd be like, you know, rise to the occasion, English major, let's get it. And at one point, one of my superiors was like, I understand, but I've taken you off of the email thread. I have removed you from the email thread, and I was like, Thank you. Like it was like the best gift to just be to just be taken out of it. Oh my god.
SPEAKER_04:Is uh have you you mentioned AI there? Are you talking about like peep clients using it and bringing stuff to you? Like, how's that coming into play for you?
SPEAKER_00:I think it's more the the I was making and I you know I'm making some sort of assumption, but I think when it comes to like the visual part, especially like in the very beginning when you know people were just generating whatever they could, and at first it had a very defined style, you know, now it's it's getting bonkers, but um you know it's like when you don't understand something, you don't understand it because you didn't make it, and you kind of need to be like brought into the world of the creator, and they have to explain it to you, which is why it's really important, I think, to have a creative part of the review process or like someone who I you know what I mean, it's hard to hand off a project to someone who didn't make it and have them explain it to whomever the fuck.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_00:And with AI, like you have this person that's just like putting in these sentences and just being like, make this image, and then this image is being shot out of them. And I think especially, you know, two or three years ago, when it was just way more bonkers for what you were getting, but still like incredible and insane that this was made in 10 to 20 seconds. This person was so excited as if they had made, as if this was like their their baby, their creative child. That they, you know what I mean? Like people would be sharing their images and they're calling themselves AI artists. And I'm not necessarily getting into that conversation. But I feel like in so many cases, that mindset is the same person who, if I had handed off creative, they would like they would just find everything wrong with it. Whereas they've made this photo that they didn't even make themselves. I, you know, you want to like totally attack because you're like, this thing is bonkers. Like, where are the legs? Where what's happening with the the perspective? Like this has got five corners, and like it's like, you know, just the does that like does that make sense? Like, I just think it's the same person that doesn't understand, and yet you can't make them understand.
SPEAKER_04:I I I really agree. Well, I and I think part of it is like all of the interesting parts of an image made that way, you had nothing to do with. Like the AI person did not make any of the decisions. You can be like, oh, I really love this this hue over here, and I love the way that it blends with this, and it's like, oh yeah, it just came that way. Cool, cool, cool talk. Um, but also I think it's a fuzzy imagination thing or a fun fuzzy visualization, you know. I I'll work with directors sometimes, and I need something to go on when I make something for them, when I do visual effects, and sometimes it's like pulling teeth. I'm like, what do you see in your mind for this thing? Not even that. Do you know of another movie that has something like this? And I'm like shocked by how many people can't see it, have no idea what they want, and can't even reference a movie. I'm like, you're in the movie industry. Have have you seen movies? I don't know what to do with that situation. In that situation bringing out references, huh?
SPEAKER_00:Do you ever do you render AI though? Because and I I feel like some people I mean, because I'll use I've used AI plenty of times when it comes to to mock-ups when I feel as though it's yeah, for the right reasons, which I guess is self- self-righteous explanation. But I also kind of feel like as part of my argument is like if I can make it, then I can rend I can render it as that as that an honest thing. Because like, you know, I've seen some of the shit you can do, so I feel like you're allowed to wield the power because you were also that powerful without it. It would just take you a little bit longer to make it.
SPEAKER_04:Well, ditto, it's like sometimes it helps you get off a blank page, and well, I mean, honestly, there's it's not I've used it in mock-ups too. A lot of people everybody uses it in pitch decks now for TV shows and movies and stuff. Everybody. I'm sure everybody in the design industry does it as well. Um I feel more okay with that than I do generating stuff whole cloth. Don't feel great about that. It's also just not economical. Like if you we're all getting these things heavily subsidized, like 20 bucks a month, please. Like, if you were to actually pay the cost of doing what you're doing, it'd probably be like three grand a month. I I actually did I did some like rough calculations with my computer. I I did I generated locally a section of a shot um that I needed needed to patch. And I calculated like what the cost of running my graphics card at 100% for an hour was and how much I could get out of that framewise. By the time I got to the end of it, I'm like, to generate a full movie, assuming that you do 10 takes or 10 generations per shot just to get it right, it's gonna cost you over 15 million dollars in energy. And at that point, you might as well just make a regular movie. Wow. Yeah, I'm like, it's not even the economics don't even work out.
SPEAKER_00:So how are why is why but why are people doing it? Like and aren't, I mean, didn't who was it that bought one of the um nuclear plants? Wasn't but didn't like a company recently buy one of the nuclear plants as far as AI to like to use it for the utilization of AI? Yeah, it was in California. Oh I want to say it was like Microsoft or something wild, but I I don't remember. I almost feel like I should look it up so I'm not just spitting out nonsense.
SPEAKER_04:I know they're trying to fire up two Three Mile Island and another one, I think they're trying to fire up for the just to get that get that energy. Um but I wouldn't be shocked. It is pretty energy intensive, um, but it's just what is it? Did you find it?
SPEAKER_00:Uh it says Meta's deal to help not surprise me, but Meta's deal to help revive an Illinois nuclear power plant was one way of signaling that the parent company of Facebook and Instagram is preparing for a future built with artificial intelligence. Um was it Google?
SPEAKER_04:I don't think good luck to all of them on that. It takes like it takes like 10 years to get a nuclear power plant online.
SPEAKER_00:Does it? Like we guess is it because of to build one to build one.
SPEAKER_04:To build, I mean, I think I feel like that's probably optimistic at this point because there's probably been like a brain drain on you know, can AI speed that up? Oh, dude, I do not want AI built nuclear power plants. I do not want that.
SPEAKER_00:What nuclear company is Bill Gates investing in Terrapower? I don't know, none of these are necessarily the thing that I have in my head. I just remember something being about something.
SPEAKER_03:I don't know. Power plants, right?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I think I feel like Bill Gates is doing the little ones, the little like modern tiny power plants. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:The Microsoft Bionuclear Power Plant Constellation Energy, the owner of the Three Mile Island, reached an agreement with Microsoft to restart one of its dormant reactors that the meltdown did not affect.
unknown:Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_00:Constellation will invest$1.6 billion in the project, and Microsoft agreed to buy its electricity for 20 years.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, cool. So everybody can continue to stop you to like not use Copilot because it's so annoying.
SPEAKER_00:What's Copilot? Explain.
SPEAKER_04:Copilot, it's the AI that Microsoft is jamming into every one of their project or uh products.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, really? Oh man, I have to have an either I'm not even familiar with it.
SPEAKER_04:Nobody wants to use it.
SPEAKER_00:Maybe they should pay for marketing first before they buy a nuclear plant. Copilot.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, they're all the techniques. Why do I not know about it?
SPEAKER_00:Maybe it's because there's just so many now. Like Google's launch was kind of crazy. You envy me for not knowing what it is.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I wish I didn't know about this stuff. Ignorance is bliss, you know, just like in The Matrix.
SPEAKER_00:How dare you. Yeah. I guess so. I guess so. What is the Google um AI that was like just, I feel like they launched like a review or that the internet went like pretty wild over it because of the generation, like how they generate images and like the capacity to generate images or like one sound image from multiple perspectives, or like to take five different photos and then make them, you know, as if they are very much in the same room.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, they had like they had the one that does real-time environments, like it's almost a video game. You can walk through generated environments in real time.
SPEAKER_03:Whoa.
SPEAKER_04:And then they have the one that does image editing where you can like plug in a picture and say, you know, make them wear a business suit or add a dinosaur in the background or something.
SPEAKER_00:What's it called? Is it all just Gemini? Or I thought Gemini was just more of a that's I feel like Gemini is the overall name.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, and then they have like little names. One of them's something banana. Bananas?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's that's what I'm talking about. That's that's the one I'm talking about.
SPEAKER_04:Banana hammock, I think that's it.
SPEAKER_00:Banana. Why did they call it that?
SPEAKER_04:They didn't, but they should.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I know, but why didn't they call it like banana?
SPEAKER_04:I don't remember.
SPEAKER_00:They could they should have called it banana hammer.
SPEAKER_04:They probably had AI generate the name.
SPEAKER_00:They probably have you do you feel like you can kind of registers there? Like a ding ding-ding that goes off when you're reading something that you're like, oh, this is this is like ChatGPT or something. Yeah, do you do you have that?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, if it says delve or dive deeper, I'm like, okay.
SPEAKER_00:When there's intense alliteration that like doesn't necessarily have to be involved in this whatsoever, that for me, I'm like, oh, this is this is this is Chat GPT. Like, like even. Yeah. And it just like it's like fluff. It's like, it's like an immense amount of fluff. And it's actually not talking about anything. And I'm like, oh, I've just made it a paragraph. It's as it's almost as if you're reading a young writer's piece, I feel like. Like when, you know, you're like, oh, you're gonna be a good writer one day, but like right now, you're really you're really in love with you know, you gotta kill your darlings.
SPEAKER_04:They're they're trying to make up for the fact that they're saying nothing by just putting a lot of adjectives.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, exactly. Like you had a you had a word count, and you just were like, how many words is it gonna take to make this sentence, you know, into 12 instead of five? Like just filling it up, fluffing it up.
SPEAKER_04:Like you took three paragraphs to say that I like the weather.
SPEAKER_00:Are we still talking about the weather?
SPEAKER_04:Weather's great over here, by the way. California last year, or LA at least, was like sweltering and miserable. And we have not fingers crossed had that yet.
SPEAKER_00:Oh yeah, I remember there were there was a big heat wave. I mean, I remember hearing about it, obviously. But I'm glad you're getting is it fall weather or is it like late summer weather?
SPEAKER_04:What is uh still summer, you know, midsummer, but not terrible. Last year we were getting, you know, I think Palm Springs got up to like 123 or something crazy. And we've been chill here. It's been warm.
SPEAKER_00:Are you an Are you an autumn person?
SPEAKER_04:I love autumn. I love jacket weather.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:I love it when it's jacket weather because I feel like it's jacket person. It's harder to make outfits when you can't wear jacket we're Jackets.
SPEAKER_00:It really there is a moment that happens every year in in Tampa and like in St. Pete when it gets to that moment in the summer where it is hot and you're like, it's been hot forever. Like you can't remember a time when it hasn't been hot, you know? And there's this feeling, there's a there's like a specific day every year where I'm like, dude, I just feel like I've been wearing the same thing. Like I'm in a uniform of like as little clothes as possible, and then like just becomes like you feel like you've lost all style, you know. It's just like the tank top and shorts, and you're just wanting desperately. And like, like I'll go to a cold place to work or something just so I can bring a sweatshirt and have some sort of depth as a human. But there's that moment every year where I'm like, there has it has always been hot. It has never been anything but hot. This has been always that's the best. I don't remember sweaters.
SPEAKER_04:Like when you get so cold, like in Missouri, when I lived in Missouri, like when it got really cold and I was freezing, it'd be like, I forgot what it was like to be warm. I remember when I was in college, uh, me and uh a bunch of my college mates lived in this house, a three-bedroom house. I think there was like eight of us, and then one person in the basement I didn't know was living there. And our heating went out in like the dead winter. And we all seven were in one room with two space heaters under like three blankets for like a couple days because the maintenance guy wouldn't come out and fix it. And it got to the point where I'm like, I forgot, I don't remember what warmth is. I don't it's like it's cold forever.
SPEAKER_00:I think it's that feeling that mothers probably get when they're like, you know what? I think I do want to have another child, you know, like they forgot how just terribly painful the the childbirth experience was. Like they it's like it has like a medical term that and it's like you know, it's for it's for the sake of creating more children that we do this through evolution, but it's like, yeah, the the you'll forget, you just forget, and I think it's the same thing. You forget that it was pleasant at one time. Although you don't forget that it was cold. You definitely I remember there was one day I was walking home from Ohio State. It was when the first polar vortex like pulled through, and it was so it was it was like you know, negative 10, I think. And at some places in the country it was like negative 20, like it was not good, and and classes were being canceled, and they were like, do not go outside because we don't want your parents suing us. Like, like you're not allowed to go to class. And it was one of the days where it was warmer, and so I went to class, but it was a night class, and by the end of the class, it had dropped so much that everyone was like, Okay, go home, guys, like go home. And I had forgotten my gloves, and I was just like, I was so scared. Like, you know, it's like a 15, 20 minute walk back to your, you know, home that you're living in with seven other people. And I remember by the time I got there, like I couldn't feel my fingers to get my keys out of my bag. And it was the door was locked, and I started just out, I lost it. Like I like like the the I'm gonna lose my fingers fear came over me, and I was just like banging on the door. And one of my roommates was home, and he actually like worked really late shifts, and so he'd been sleeping at that time, and I just like didn't even care. I was like, get the fuck out of my way. I have to like go put my hands in a heated bath water, but that was it was insane. Yeah, that was the type of cold that I still remember, like just severe pain. We'll stick with you for sure.
SPEAKER_04:He opens the door, you're just jack torrents frozen in front of the door.
SPEAKER_00:Just like, yeah. That was scary. I remember people died that year. Like, like they're like one person, not on my campus, but like it's kind of crazy to think that somebody like two or three people died across the country. And definitely in some of the colder states, like somewhere in Wisconsin, someone went outside to like pee at a bar and they froze to death, which is something wild like that. Yeah, like it like it was just you probably shouldn't be out drinking. Because you know, you when you're drinking and you're in college or at a bar, I'm sure, you're just thinking it's fine, and it's like it's really not fine. Did you not see the day after tomorrow? That would have been a super relevant movie at that time. And that is the first half of the conversation that I had with Matt. The second half is going to be next week. I am learning how to do audio myself, and I had a bit of a mic malfunction. And I know that's not sexy. I don't even want to say it out loud. It feels like a cop-out to say, but it also is it would be so I would be so in denial if I didn't say that I know that this stuff is happening and I'm aware of it. And I'm just learning and I'm getting better every day. So if you want to check out scriptslug.com, if there's a script out there that you wanted to see, or you're a writer trying to figure out how to navigate this crazy world of writing and being seen, or like no feeling like you know what you're doing, you should definitely check out Scriptslug. It's a directory of many, many, many scripts. And there's a lot of details on the site that talk with people such as yourself and other other artists in the industry. And Matt's done a wonderful job creating that world. You can also check him out at imlethrom.com and see some of the work that he's done and maybe reach out and must be a get inspired, but that was Matt, and I am Morgan, and I just am grateful. Super, super grateful. It is an increasingly digital world, and there's nothing wrong with that, but it's really hard to articulate what we do and how we do it, and how we show up visually online because we're multifaceted people, and there's a lot of different ways, a lot of different colors in the spectrum, thousands of fonts to choose from, and photo edits, don't get me started with photo edits. It can be really overwhelming to start with your brand identity. But as a brand specialist, that is where I come in to help. And it's something that I feel really allows my full uh collection of skills to to be at your service and at a greater service to help you articulate your brand, your event, your offerings. If we need to do merch design, logo design, landing page design, event flyers, logo design, copywriting, uh, script writing. Like what do you what do you need and we'll do it? Because I just enjoy the process of working with creative thinkers and multifaceted humans. There's a lot that we can do. And when we're asked to put a visual with the concept of who we are, it can be incredibly overwhelming. And I can help with that. So check out Joyce Scoutstudio.com. You can see some of my recent work. And if you'd like to work together, reach out. And I can't wait to talk to you about it. Thanks so much for listening.