Tales From The Jails Podcast

CHRIS MAC : TALES FROM THE JAILS LIVE!!

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This episode features Chester PA' s own Chris Mac. Chris Mac talks about his incarceration as a juvenile being imprisoned in harsh conditions for a crime he did not commit. Chris Mac breaks talks about being a kid a young teen house in a state prison with grown men. This is a horrifying story of a young man who once was child railroaded by the prison system.

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SPEAKER_04

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SPEAKER_03

As you're hearding, go to YouTube at Tales from the Gels and become a member. We got an array of content that's coming out that you will be thoroughly entertained by. As you can see by the content that's previously been released, you're entertained by. And we want to thank y'all for uh rocking with us, man, and listening to the awareness that we're bringing about prison life. So go to where again, bro. Go to YouTube at Tales from the Jails and become a member. YouTube at Tales from the Jails and please become a member.

SPEAKER_04

Listen, we need everybody to do something for us. If you really like what you see on Tell us from the Gels, if you're really interested in what you see on Tells from the Gels, we need you to go to YouTube at Tell us from the Gels and become a member. Subscribe as well, but also become a member. That way you can get updated on all the new content as we continue to bring you these uh amazing episodes. So I want everyone to go to the Tells or go to YouTube at Tales from the Gels and become a member.

SPEAKER_03

As y'all heard it, go to YouTube at Tales from the Gels and become a member. We got an array of content that's coming out that you will be thoroughly entertained by. As you can see by the content that's previously been released, you're entertained by. So go to where again, bro. Go to YouTube at Tales from the Jails and become a member. YouTube at Tales from the Jails and please become a member.

SPEAKER_04

Whatever you're selling, if you have a great idea, you want to put it on our platform, contact TBI I C. Call us now. 267-982-0342. TBIC, the best in sports entertainment. First of all, I want to take everybody who's been tuning in to Tells from the Gels. Listen, we need everybody to do something for us. If you really like what you see on Tell us from the Gels, if you're really interested in what you see on Tell us from the Gels, we need you to go to YouTube at Tells from the Gels and become a member. Subscribe as well to also become a member. That way you can get updated on all the new content as we continue to bring you these uh amazing episodes. So I want everyone to go to the Tells, go to YouTube at Tells from the Gels and become a member.

SPEAKER_03

As y'all heard it, go to YouTube at Tales from the Gels and become a member. We got an array of content that's coming out that you will be thoroughly entertained by. As you can see by the content that's previously been released, you're entertained by. So go to where again, bro? Go to YouTube at Tells from the Jails and become a member. YouTube at Tells from the Jails and please become a member.

SPEAKER_04

What's up? What's up, everybody out there listening, man? It's Tells from the Jails. We're here live in Paris. You would say TNS Media Group is the team and the family. Got my counterpart here with me today. We got a special guest uh rocking with us, man, um, out of Chester. Yeah, Chris Mack, who's here to tell his story, man. Who's here to, you know, let everybody know, you know, what went on with him and uh what caused him to serve time behind a prison wall and being free now and what he's doing now. So what's going with you, Chris? How you feeling, man? I'm chilling, man. I'm cool. Well, I'm glad you can make it up to the show, man, and uh, and get up here and speak with us today and talk to us. Um, you know, so if you you can leave out what you want to leave out, speak about what you want to speak about. Um but ultimately, you know, uh here today is to get your story out and put it out to the people so they can know what's going on with you. So you're from Chester, right? Yeah, yeah, I'm from Chester, the Holland Garden section. Okay. West side. All right. And, you know, um, coming from Chester, right? You know, a lot of times people don't understand. Chester is like a like, it's like right outside of Philly, what, like 45 minutes from Philly, not even.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, probably not even that, probably like 22.

SPEAKER_04

20, yeah, like 20, 25 minutes. So you y'all right there. So it inside the prison system, right? A lot of times when people go to Chester, or people from Chester, we know people that's from Philly, the city of Philly, normally we like close or we like tight, right? Yeah, yeah, for the most part. Okay, and did you do you did Fed Time or State Time? State time. Okay, so listen, so let's talk about it, man. Um what happened? Just talk about your upbringing, you know.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, what caused you to your man?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Shit, my um, my first case I caught when I was 15. Feel me? They charged me as an adult for a shooting. I'm saying for something I ain't really do, but the victim told on me, you feel me?

SPEAKER_03

Oh, the victim said you did it.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah. And you was 15? Yeah, yeah, 15. Wow.

SPEAKER_03

So you got certified for that, or they kept that as juvenile?

SPEAKER_02

They certified me. Yeah, so they um, mind you, before I even got locked up, the the victim on a case, he was on the internet, he was on Facebook saying I shot him and all that. So I'm inboxing him like, yo, bro, like I ain't shoot you. You feel me? Like, why you saying me? No, you shot me. I seen you, you all your brother, you feel me, with your shoddy, aren't that shoddy free bro, you feel me? I'm like, no, that wasn't us, bro. You on some rat stuff, like you on the internet saying I shot you. So he like, yeah, keep calling me a rat. I'm gonna get you more than four years in the jail. So I'm like, what the fuck? So now I'm in my head, like, this either his mom or he was talking to the detectives, you feel me? So when you say that, I'm like, so I get off, like I'm cool, you feel me? So you know, a week go by.

SPEAKER_03

You home at the time.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I'm home. And I'm afraid I turned 15 July 4th, you feel me? I was a fresh 15, I got booked September, I'm saying, 2010. So they end up running in my crib, grabbing me and shit and all that.

SPEAKER_04

How was that for you? You 15, right? You never experienced nothing like that in your life. Right. How was that? What did they come early in the morning?

SPEAKER_02

No, they came late at night. Late at night? Yeah, yeah. Probably like 11, 12.

SPEAKER_03

Did you know they was on to you?

SPEAKER_02

No, I didn't think so. I didn't think he really was gonna tell because the the boyhood was, like, he was like they he was like they face of their neighborhood. Like they started off fighting and all that, you feel me? Like he was the face of their neighborhood. So I ain't think he really would tell.

SPEAKER_03

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02

You feel me?

SPEAKER_03

So did a couple months go past at the or a couple weeks or days at the like a week go by.

SPEAKER_02

He run in my career, they grab me. So I'm like, I'm confused, they grab me, you feel me? They take me to the uh Chester Police Station. They like, um, I'm like, damn, what I'm being arrested for. They like you was involved in a shooting that happened at Columbus Elementary School. That's what they say initially. So I'm like, oh yeah, I'm cool. I ain't they probably gonna question me to let me go. Then they come back to me, like, um, do you know about a shooting that happened on 12th and Boo Street? So, you know, me being young, I'm like, yeah, like they trying to say I shot somewhere, you feel me? They like the victim saying it too. Dang. So I'm like, what the fuck? So I'm like, so now I'm still thinking, I'm like, all right, I'm a teenager, I'm going to juvenile, you feel me? Like, so I'm like, what the fuck? I'm like, the victim said it, like, damn. Like, they put me back in the cell, whoopie-woo. They like, yeah, get a call before the county bus come. I'm like, the county bus.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, 15 years old.

SPEAKER_02

So I called my mom, I'm like, mom, like, you feel me? They talking about going out of the county. She like, yeah, son, like these some serious charges. Cause they, my mom and them had come out, came to the police station to see what was going on. So they let her know, like, you feel me? She like, yeah, these some serious charges.

SPEAKER_03

Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And around that time, my city was under state of emergency. So I feel like they was trying to make an example of me, you feel me?

SPEAKER_03

They definitely was trying to do that.

SPEAKER_02

Exactly. So they grabbed me, boom.

SPEAKER_03

What's going through your mind though when you see the where you going at? You ain't going no juvie.

SPEAKER_02

Right. I ain't gonna lie, I was I was kind of I was nervous for sure. But it was like, I didn't know what to expect. But at the same time, I'm like, nigga, you you wanna be involved in this street shit, so this is the other side of it.

SPEAKER_03

This is what you're thinking to yourself.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, like nigga, we about to see if you really built for this shit. You feel me? Like, not even physically, because I'm gonna fight and protect myself, but like mentally.

SPEAKER_03

That's way harder than the physical part. Exactly. Way harder, bro.

SPEAKER_02

Sure. So I'm like, damn, can I handle this shit mentally? You get what I'm saying? So I'm on a bus with all grown men, you feel me? Right out there.

SPEAKER_04

15 years old.

SPEAKER_02

15 with grown men. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

So that shit fucked my head up. So it's a rhyme a little bit. You should have came to the crib late, like 11, 12 o'clock at night.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Was it did it kick the door in or just came in like no?

SPEAKER_02

They knocked on the joint.

SPEAKER_04

Your mom over there.

SPEAKER_02

C PD, uh. Mind you, my big brother, rest in peace. DZ, he's gone now.

SPEAKER_04

Rest in peace, your bro.

SPEAKER_02

He comes to the joint, they tell him, yo, come here, come here, you're under arrest. So they look at the picture, they like, oh no, that's not him. But I knew it was for me now. You feel me? So I'm like, I walked to the joint, they like, man, this little guy, I was little as hell, bro. I was probably like 4'8, 4'7, like 115, 20 pounds.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, you a kid.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I was little as shit. So this is my first time being away from home. I've never been a placement, never been a juvenile detention center, none of that. You feel me? They sent me out the county. I'm saying, I'm in that jaw, don't push up.

SPEAKER_03

So did they have like a not to cut you up, but did they have a juvenile block?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, they had a juvenile block.

SPEAKER_03

All the juveniles was charged with something heavy. Every juvenile that was where you at, I'm assuming, was charged with some some some major offenses.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_03

To even be certified, to be with the adults. Yeah. So how was when you walk on that block? Like, do you I go through quarantine the same way?

SPEAKER_02

No, see with juvenile, they send you straight to the juvenile block.

SPEAKER_03

You ain't gotta go through quarantine, sit down RD and all that all day long, waiting to get processed.

SPEAKER_02

You'll probably be sitting down there for probably like two, three hours.

SPEAKER_03

Tops. Is that because they want to get the juvenile secured, yeah?

SPEAKER_02

Right. But before I get to the block, they give me a breakfast tray to John. Like, this I swear I still remember the smell to this day.

SPEAKER_03

What it smell like?

SPEAKER_02

I can't even explain it, bro. That's shit.

SPEAKER_03

You gotta come up with something. You gotta get the audience something because the audience wants to know what this shit smells like because they don't want to have to. I'm we trying to paint a print a picture so vivid to them to where as though they actually smell what you're talking about. As a man, why you talking like can you try to describe the the horribleness of a breakfast tree that they passing out?

SPEAKER_02

And that shit smelled like it smelled like bleach, soap.

SPEAKER_03

From them, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And like germs, like whatever germs smell like.

SPEAKER_03

So you so I'm assuming you didn't eat.

SPEAKER_02

Nah, I didn't eat. I'm like, nah, I'm cool, I don't want that. So the sergeant, like, this is the best it's gonna get.

SPEAKER_03

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02

I'm like, this is the best it's gonna get it. Damn. I'm like, yeah, I was done. What was it on the tray? What was it? It was fucking eggs, fucking meat gravy, like potatoes, but it ain't had no seasoning.

SPEAKER_03

No, yeah, no seasoning.

SPEAKER_02

You feel me? So I'm like, yeah, I'm cool. And I don't got an appetite to eat shit.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Pest. So you feel me? Boom. They take me to the block. Now I'm thinking I'm about to go to the block with a bunch of niggas I don't know. I'm not gonna be rumbling. I get on the block, I see niggas I know.

SPEAKER_03

All the guys.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, like see my man Boosie, rest in peace, Boosie. You feel me? He sent me a big ass Chi Chi bowl down. I ain't even eat that. It took me like three days to finish the bowl. I'm just picking at it because I'm not really hungry, but I'm trying to put something on my stomach, you feel me? See my man tight, rest in peace, tight, you feel me?

SPEAKER_04

And this was a county, like, so the county, so you so you in the county, this is your first time ever being in trouble, period.

SPEAKER_02

First time ever been away. I got in trouble before, yeah, but I never like with the jail. Yeah, you feel me?

SPEAKER_04

So how was it pulling up to the actual facility for the first time? What were you thinking? Were you scared? What was you what was going to do?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I definitely was sneaky nervous, but like I said, I was trying to prepare myself mentally.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Feel me? Because I know like I can fight all day, I can win fights, I can lose fights, but if I lose my mind, it's over. Feel me? Like, so I was basically like trying to get myself prepared mentally. Yeah, you feel me? Like, just trying to learn shit, just trying to learn how to bid, you feel me?

SPEAKER_03

Like, so how uh how long did you sit in the county jail?

SPEAKER_02

I sat in the county jail for eight months. Eight months fighting that case? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

You won?

SPEAKER_02

No, hell no. I end up pleading out. Oh, you pleaded out for something you ain't even do? Yeah, for something I didn't even do. And like, I can talk about this shit now. Yeah, yeah, because 15 years before I pleaded guilty. But my little brother actually did it. You feel me? He was 13. So that's why you pleaded out though? Yeah, and it was like I didn't know no better. I'm thinking, and I had a public defender. I'm thinking like he represented me, so he's gonna do right by me. Now that I'm older, like I could have beat that John, like, bro, you gotta fight for your like them motherfuckers got millions of cases, you feel me? You got this your life, you feel me? So I'm thinking he's gonna do everything right, you know what I'm saying? But you know, you live and you learn.

SPEAKER_04

And a PD.

SPEAKER_02

Exactly.

SPEAKER_04

A PD at that, you feel me? And and the PD work work for the D uh for the DA. Facts. All right, and the PD work for the DA. And then so you so you getting in there, you're a young boy, 15. He like, take the deal, this take the deal.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, he tried to get me to take a 5 to 10. Damn. He like this joint hold up to 45 years, take this five to ten. So I'm like, damn. I'm like, I've no problem. So now I'm talking to old heads in the ballpen. They like, no, don't go for that. You feel me? Like, they gonna come down, it's your first case. You a juvenile, you feel me?

SPEAKER_04

Yo, listen, y'all hear that the public defender told this man take a five to ten at 15 years old.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, that's major, man.

SPEAKER_04

He don't even care. He didn't even care that this he was this kid was 15. Take a five to ten.

SPEAKER_03

Take this five to ten. That's that that's cool for this case right here. They don't care, bro.

SPEAKER_04

But it's a Caucasian man or African American, Caucasian.

SPEAKER_02

Even lawyers, the paid lawyers, man. You gotta fight your own case, bro. You gotta let them know what you want. You feel me? Like, no motherfuckers like this shit be all like business, bro. It's business to them. This reality to us, this our life. You feel me? They go home to their families at the end of the day. You feel me? I don't give a fuck. They get their money, they go to their families. While we sitting in that motherfucker going through that joint, you feel me?

SPEAKER_04

So going to going to trial now, you said you you took a deal. Was the guy coming to court at all?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, he took the stand, man. He took the stand. That shit fucked me up. Because it was like, I'm looking at it like, all right, he made a statement. A statement is bad enough, but I'm like, he ain't gonna come all the way to court.

SPEAKER_03

He ain't gonna steal the deal.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, so mind you, my little brother. I'm calling home. I'm just talking. My little brother, free shoddy again, man. Free bro. He like, um, he like, bro, I'll take that joint. I'm like, fuck though. Like, you like I don't even want to be here. Yeah, so I'm not gonna allow you to take this joint and you, you feel me?

SPEAKER_03

You my little brother.

SPEAKER_02

Exactly. I'm supposed to protect you, you feel me? So I'm like, hell no, bro. Like, it's cool. I'm alright, you feel me? Like, this shit nutty, but I'm alright.

SPEAKER_03

Y'all conversing with each other at 15 and 13 like this. Uh-Grown men business. Right. This is crazy how we gotta grow up, but it is what it is.

SPEAKER_02

And I won't put this out there because I don't want nobody, like my mom was a hell of a mom, you feel me? But it's like a parent can tell you, and you know, at the end of the day, you're gonna make your own decisions.

SPEAKER_03

Did you have a father figure around?

SPEAKER_02

Fuck no. You feel me? So it was like my mom was a hell of a mom. Like, now that I'm grown, I understand that. I used to be like, man, my mom was some nuts stuff. Like, she trying to make us come in early, she trying to tell us this, she trying to tell us that. The whole time, like she was a lot of people would love to have a mom like that.

SPEAKER_03

You feel me? Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02

Real shit.

SPEAKER_03

She was trying to safeguard y'all.

SPEAKER_02

Exactly. You feel me?

SPEAKER_03

Before y'all went here, she seen she seen the direction y'all was going. She's been alive longer than that. Shout out mom Dukes. You know what I'm saying? And for the most part, like we were just talking about before we went live. How the mothers love their sons. Oh, for sure. I mean, not to say that the father might not love the son, but the mother is just a different type of love. She carried you for nine months. You on the titty if you is on the titty, if you ain't on the simile. Um, and the mother just wanna be there regardless of how she is. I know, right? She just loves her boy.

SPEAKER_02

And my mom wrote my whole band out with me, like every letter, like every JPEG, every everything.

SPEAKER_03

Right there. But what about any friends that you had back then? Like, did you have a lot of friends at 15?

SPEAKER_02

I did, but they was all kids.

SPEAKER_03

We can't nobody really do nothing for you then yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So like I ain't even really like, I'm like, man, we they probably looking at me, like, what the fuck is you doing up there? You feel me? But yeah, he got on the stand though, man. He he ended up um, he coming to court. He walked past. I'm thinking, like, mind you, young boy used to be sneaky tough, like fake tough, you feel me? So when he comes to court, I'm like, he about to go up there and act like it was somebody else that shot him. Yeah. He get on the stand, so they like, um, do you see the person in here that shot you? He like, yeah. They like, what he got on? He like a red jumpsuit. They like, can you point? Mind you, I'm grilling him the whole time though. Like, he wouldn't look at me. He like this. He looking the other way. Yeah, he looking the other way. They like point to him. He like, I said, Damn, this nigga really told on me, man. He fucked this whole shit up early. He told on me fast, he told on me, man.

SPEAKER_04

So once he once he came, uh took the stand, so what what made you take the deal? Right. And what was it for?

SPEAKER_02

I ain't gonna lie, when I took the deal, it was like I didn't even know I had a chance to fight. They like, man, if he come to court, you done. Uh-uh-uh. You feel me?

SPEAKER_03

So I didn't even know I had a chance to fight, but what you mean I understand that you said when you took the deal, you ain't knew you had the chance to fight.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I ain't even I ain't know I can go to trial. Oh, so you ain't know nothing.

SPEAKER_03

Basically a 15, you just in here with a violent kid.

SPEAKER_02

Listening to the fucking public defender. Whatever the public defender tell me, that's what it is. You feel me? So the public defender comes to me, he like, um, they offer you a two and a half to five, but I can get you a two to five with five years special probation. So me being young, just trying to hurry up and get home. I'm like, I'd rather have two to five with five years special probation instead of the two and a half to five. You feel me? I end up doing two and a half anyway.

SPEAKER_03

You feel me?

SPEAKER_02

And that five year special probation ended up knocking me. I just got finished that shit.

SPEAKER_03

Damn. You just now finished. How old did you name? I'm 30. You just now got finished. That from that case?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, probably like three years ago.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, ho.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Because I want y'all to hear this, man. Right. It don't stop because you're home. So you quit this case when you was 15. Right. You 30 now. That's 15 years ago if my math is right. And the tail must have just kept dragging out. Yeah. Case after the case.

SPEAKER_02

When I came home, I went back to jail 12 days later. My PO came to my crib for a little visit. He found some weed in the crib and she booked me.

SPEAKER_03

Violation. He's awful.

SPEAKER_02

Just finding weed. My little brother, he ended up taking the charge for me. You feel me?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, like saying that was his.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, like bro, I'll take that joint. You feel me?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

He take that joint. He goes to placement. He go to Glen Mill. They let me right out. You feel me? After like two months. Some shit like that.

SPEAKER_03

Reinstated your probation.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. So you you took the the two to five with five years probation. Yeah. Now, damn.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, they they boy. They wore him out. They wore you out. They wore you out. That's why I never. They wore you out.

SPEAKER_04

That's a 10-year sentence, bitch. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Exactly. So I didn't even know no better. Like, the fuck you. Yeah, that shit was crazy. That shit was crazy.

SPEAKER_04

So you did a county bid with the for the whole two and a half, or you did a eight months out of the county, then I went upstate.

SPEAKER_02

You feel me? How old was you when upstate? 15. I still was 15, yeah. Damn. Yeah. I ain't gonna lie, that whole experience, man. That shit was traumatic.

SPEAKER_03

They don't care who they lock up. If you're breaking the law, they coming to get you. Kid, grown man, midway, get over here. So a juvenile, they give a juvenile who's 15 years old, put him in a state pen with grown men. No, not like probably say, I know they had that juvenile blocks.

SPEAKER_02

When I went to Greaterford, they ain't had no juvenile blocks.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, so y'all was with the grown men?

SPEAKER_02

No, they houses in the RGO. Okay.

SPEAKER_03

But it was just oh, the RGU was the whole, right? Yeah, yeah. So it was just the juveniles on that wing.

SPEAKER_02

No, it was everybody, grown men, all that. Yeah. Yeah. Let's talk about that.

SPEAKER_04

So let's talk about. So now you take the deal for the two and a half, two, uh, two to five, five years probation, right? Describe for us that bus ride and pull them to greater fruit.

SPEAKER_02

I ain't gonna lie. I was nervous as hell, man. Like when I took the deal, I was supposed to go up that Friday because the state buses used to come to my county jail on Fridays. I ain't go. I was happy as shit. I'm like, I got another week, you feel me? Next week come, they end up telling me, like, yo, pack up. You feel me? You gone. That shit. So I get down there and shit. I'm on a bus. We pull up to the fucking grader for the wall, when you get there, the wall so fuck like that's join crazy, man. We pull up. They let us out. We getting RD. You know, they taking everything, they stripping us and shit. They making a shower. Like it ain't no curtain or nothing. They put this little shit squirt in your hand, you swear that you. So it's this one one old head, you feel me, here, inmate, but he worked down there. He keeps walking past and shit. So I seen though, I'm like, this nigga like looking at us, or he just working, you feel me? So I'm like, maybe I'm overthinking on some scary young bullshit.

SPEAKER_04

And you 15.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I'm 15, you feel me? So I wash up, put my shit on. He put me in a in a in a ballpen with all the thoughts and shit. They talking, just trying to blow and shit. CO boy, OE will out in there forgetting. He coming out, he like, oh no, I gotta get you the fuck out of here. Like, you gotta stay with me at all times, you feel me?

SPEAKER_03

Cause you just looking like a kid in this.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I'm little as shit, bro. Like, real right, I'm little as shit. It's me and two two other dudes. They was 18 though.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

But they still put them in a hole at Gradefer until you see PRC and you tell them like I won't go to public.

SPEAKER_03

What does PRC stand for?

SPEAKER_02

I ain't even, I don't even know.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, but that's something that you gotta go through before you even get to public. Okay.

SPEAKER_02

You feel me? So he got us in the office with him and shit. He got motherfuckers coming down there talking to us and all that sort of old head. He coming there, he's bringing us food, loaves of bread. He wants some, I'm thinking some thorough shit. You feel me? He he having conversations. Yeah, I've been locked up since I was 16. He had like 30 something years. And that was another thing that fucked my head up. Like all the old men that was in that jail. Them niggas was in there since they was young as shit. They coming up, yeah. I got 40 and I got 30. I'm like, what the fuck? Like they really keep people in jail this long, you feel me? So the old head, he busting it up with us and shit. Woot de woot, he giving us all this food and shit. So he spin off. Some another old head come up to us. He like, listen, he like, y'all fuck, y'all stick together. He like that motherfucker like little boys, you feel me?

SPEAKER_03

Dang.

SPEAKER_02

Feel me?

SPEAKER_03

Like the dude that's passing out all the snacks and all that.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

He trying to wheel a nigga in.

SPEAKER_02

Trying to will a nigga in, bro. He said his name was like Tommy, some shit. Tommy Guns.

SPEAKER_03

I call him Tommy Buns. Nah, for that. Yeah, man. That's what he on, Tommy Buns, and they're trying to creep up on something. Right.

SPEAKER_02

He tells my y'all, y'all probably know my son. I think he said they used to call him like Tommy Hill figure or some shit like that. Okay. And shit. So I'm just now I'm just shocked, like, yo, they really be on that shit. I'm thinking he on some thorough trying to give us game shit. Old time, he on some sneaky freak shit. Yeah. I'm like, what the fuck? Now I'm like for real. I'm really scared of shit. Yeah. So I'm like, what the fuck?

SPEAKER_04

So what was it that you saw? Like, tell us something that you saw getting there that that blew your mind. Like, damn, like what the like I'm in prison for real.

SPEAKER_03

Like, goddamn, I ain't nowhere near safe.

SPEAKER_02

I ain't gonna lie, when I like you seen real live, like grown homosexual men in that drawing. That was respected though.

SPEAKER_03

That was respected. That's the that's the key in that sentence right there.

SPEAKER_02

Like that motherfuckers was scared of for real. Yeah. I'm gonna style they way. You feel me? Like, that shit, that shit, that shit blew my mind, you feel me?

SPEAKER_04

And these were the punk, the punk men or like the the uh the the men who look like us.

SPEAKER_02

Like just yeah, like the you feel me, look regular.

SPEAKER_03

Them niggas knew what they was doing.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, they in there talking, talking about motherfuckers was married in there for 15 years, 20 years. I'm like, yo, this shit crazy.

SPEAKER_03

You in your mind, like I got to go.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I'm like, I gotta get the fuck out of here. I should have listened to my mom. Yeah, man. It's too late for that damn home.

SPEAKER_04

You said somebody said they was married.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Facts. About two men married in that job. Okay.

SPEAKER_04

And this was what year? When was this?

SPEAKER_02

This was 2011. I ended up going up May of 2011.

SPEAKER_04

Damn. And the Ford got shut down right after that. I think I went like what they shut it down like.

SPEAKER_02

I think they shut the Ford down like 2018 or some shit like that. Wow.

SPEAKER_04

So you so you now you in here, right? With these grown men, you're 15 years old. 15. I'm still stuck on 15, man. Nah, real right. You seeing all types of you said homosexuals, people trying to line you up. You know what I mean? The guard protecting you the best he the best he can.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_04

What was what's what was y'all on like, was you on like an adult block or a juvenile block?

SPEAKER_02

I was in a hole. They put us in a hole. I think Doc said the same thing.

SPEAKER_04

Doc was over there too.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah, they put us in a hole. And in the hole, that shit was like, I'm thinking we're gonna get some special privileges because we juveniles. Like, they ain't gonna fuck about none of that. They was tricky as like adults. But it was like some thorough old heads down there, like some old head named Big J, man, from Pittsburgh. He had a life sentence, man. I'll never forget old head, you feel me? Like he used to, we used to fish down there in the old and shit, fishing shit. He used to fish me tobacco and shit and all that type of shit. Like, young nigga, keep your head up and shit. So they end up grinding the CO babe up. She was like a rookie. They grinding her up, oohie woo. Hey, on her ass. She fucking, she write my celly up for no reason. We ain't in do shit. She write my celly up. He get a ticket under the door. DC 141, he get the ticket. So I'm he mind you, my celly, he couldn't read. Young boy from Allentown, Reeking, young boy. Like, yeah, like a little bit of a little bit of a little bit.

SPEAKER_03

He couldn't read it all, huh? It's people in there like that.

SPEAKER_02

Nah, real shit couldn't read, so he give it to me, like, yo, what the fuck? So I'm reading the joint. I see my name in it. Like, yeah, I did something. He did something. So I'm like, what the fuck? So I'm acting. I'm on the gate. I'm like, I'm asking the old head, like, yo, like, he like, you involved in it? I'm like, yeah, he like, yeah, you gonna get a write-up soon. You feel me? So probably like a couple days later, they end up sliding the joint under for me. But she forgot to put the time in the box. So if you if you don't put the time in it, they gotta have everything correct with the write-up.

SPEAKER_03

Everything correctly. Everything correct. Well, you they throw it out.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, they she threw it out. Uh dismissed without prejudice. She threw that drawn out. So, well, I'm in that drawing. I'm chilling and shit. She write me the fuck back up. She had like seven days to write me up. She writes me back up. I go back in front of the heron examiner. Miss Mary. Racist ass. Oh my god, man. So as I go on there, she gave me fucking nine months, bro.

SPEAKER_03

Nine months what?

SPEAKER_02

Nine months in a hole, bro.

SPEAKER_03

In a hole? In a hole?

SPEAKER_02

For what? We got charged with um assault, abusive language, and disobeying the direct order. She she lied and said we threw food at her, was cursing at her and all this shit. So I'm like, what the fuck? Like, check the cameras. You feel me? Like, she ain't trying to hear none of that shit, though. You feel me? She ain't trying to hear none of that shit.

SPEAKER_03

She the disciplinary officer, the one that usually hears the write-ups, they go all with the COs every time. Exactly. They'd never give you. It's never fair. Like when you go in front of the committee, it's usually called a DHO. When the feds is called a DHO, which stands for disciplinary hearing officer. So he comes when everybody comes to hear all the write-ups, whoever in the hole, you know, and he's the judge, basically. And when you go in front of them, and they be knowing all these COs. Like you'll never see these people on the yard. Like the DA, whoever sanctioned you in the hole, they ain't out like a CO, like they not allowed to mingle with other COs, but that's a myth. Because they be sitting there talking outside the joint. They know each other. So now here go, you my man, but he talked the trash to you. I got a writer for him. If you they they they in there they got you bad. They reading your writer or you did this, you did this, how you play. Not guilty. Well, I'm finding you guilty of this act. You don't got no goddamn shot for nothing. Wow. They got a jail inside of a jail.

SPEAKER_04

So um was it any point that you got off the juvenile block? Well, you said upstate.

SPEAKER_02

No, I um when I was still I got my nine months, somebody ended up telling, because the old head Big J, he was like fishing me food. They put us on a food loaf. They try to say we're throwing food, and a food loaf is basically like everything that we had that day all bunched in one little fucking loaf. So I'm like, man, I'm not eating that shit. Oh he's telling, man, refuse that shit, refuse it. So I'm refusing it, like, man, we not eating that shit. You feel me? So he fishing me food over, he fishing me sandwiches and shit over, eating the shit. Somebody ended up telling. So they end up fucking putting like a bubble in front of my door. So you can't fish shit now. Now I got this big ass dumb bubble in front of my door. I'm like, man, they treating me, you feel me? Like I end up being there for like two and a half months. I end up going to Camp Pill, they transfer me to Camp Hill. I get to Camp Hill and shit. They keep me in a hole. That shit follows you, you feel me? And that Camp Pill, that's like the grind up jail.

SPEAKER_03

What you mean, grind up jail?

SPEAKER_02

Like all them CEOs up there are racist, they they push your buttons, they you feel me?

SPEAKER_03

Alright, so they they carrying it different than Camp Bill.

SPEAKER_02

Exactly. So I get to Camp Pill and all that.

SPEAKER_03

You still 15 at the time?

SPEAKER_02

No, I'm 16 now. I end up turning 16 in a hole at Greaterford. Well, I get to Camp Pill, they treat me. Mind you, I didn't know in the hole at Camp Pill, like you gotta be in the back of the cell like this with your hands up. Get your food. You feel me?

SPEAKER_03

Just to get so if they come to your cell with a food tray, you gotta go to the back of the cell and hold your hands up until they put the food in there. Facts.

SPEAKER_02

I didn't know that. They just burning the shit out of me. Like I'm not eating or nothing.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, they'll walk past if you ain't doing that.

SPEAKER_02

Exactly. They walking past and shit. So I'm thinking, like, all right, I got assault on a CEO on my joints, or they probably want some shit. Like, we're gonna treat you. You like assault CEOs and shit. How long?

SPEAKER_04

How long did that go on for?

SPEAKER_02

That shit went on for a day and a half. Damn. Facts. Somebody on the block ended up telling me, like, yo, because I asked, I'm like, yo, why they not feed me? You feel me? Yeah. They like, um, you putting your hands up and all that. I'm like, no. They like, yeah, you gotta stand in the back of the cell with your hands up.

SPEAKER_03

So you and that motherfucker hungry.

SPEAKER_02

Hungry as shit. And the cell, bro, I swear. Camp the camp hill hole. They shut that drone down. That joint was that shit was so bad. Like, you don't see no cells across from you. It's just like a long block.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. You feel me? I understand. I've been in a couple joints like that.

SPEAKER_02

Exactly. So it's like you'll be on the gate talking to niggas that's next door to you over top of you that you might not never see. You don't even know what they look like. Y'all done been down there for a couple months.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, that's crazy, bro.

SPEAKER_02

You feel me?

SPEAKER_03

Like, nigga, like, yo, upstairs. Nigga, like, yo, y'all just want to talk y'all on the hole. Like, yo, you got some magazine, but I can't see you.

SPEAKER_02

Nah, real shit. Nigga, fuck up. Put you down some mags or pictures or some shit. That shit was bad. It was fun. Then once I start like knowing how I go, they treating me. Like I'm opening up my tray up, my muffin bit, all type of shit. I'm like, damn, like I'm really. I'm writing my mom every time though.

SPEAKER_03

Like, mom can't do nothing for me though. Yeah, mom can't come save you from this type of shit. Oppression.

SPEAKER_02

They was treating me. Wow.

SPEAKER_04

Damn. So so you go from uh from Greater Fort to Camp Hill. Did you go to any other jail?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I ended up going to Pond Grove. Pond Grove was like SEI Pond Grove. That's like the jail for juveniles. It's an adults there too, though. But it's like, if you're a juvenile, you're going to Pond Grove for sure. So I end up going to Pond Grove. Mindre, the whole time though, I'm in a hole and putting in the pills.

SPEAKER_03

For the two and a half five you got?

SPEAKER_02

No, for my whole time. Oh, you trying to get out, yeah. I'm trying to get the fuck out the old. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That shit was frying me like real shit. That shit was cooking me. I end up, Mondra. At first I was kind of a little nervous to go to Pond Grove. I'm hearing all the stories. Be up there a while and nigga cut a celly tongue out, all this type of shit. So I'm like, damn. I don't know what the fuck I got myself into. You hear me? But that whole at Camp Hill, which that shit was so bad, bro. Like, I'm like, I don't give a fuck where they sent me at. Get me the fuck out of this drawing. Real rap. That shit was bad, bro. You got mice in the toilet is leaking feces all night. It's shitting pissing all that shit, leaking out the toilet. You got mice jumping all on you, coming on. I'm like, yo, what the fuck? Like, you feel? I gotta get out of this drawing. Like, I'm tweaking. Yeah, I'm I was tweaking in that joint. They was trying to put me on mirths and shit. I'm like, no, I'm cool.

SPEAKER_04

You feel me?

SPEAKER_02

Like, that shit was bad.

SPEAKER_04

You think it was, it was, uh, it was draining you uh mentally?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, for sure. Sure. The only thing that used to help me though was like us being on a gate bed and then shit. Like, we playing Jeopardy. You feel me? Niggas rapping on the gate, niggas doing all types of shit on the gate, you feel me? So it's like that shit kind of helped me. We talking back and forth, you know, like, but then the CEOs used to be weird, is this this big ass fan on the block. Like when they see us having a good time, they'd turn the fan on. So we can't hear each other.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, yeah, the fan be loud, right?

SPEAKER_02

Loud as shit, bro. Right. That shit was a grind up joint. You in a shower, no cap. You literally. My first time getting in the shower at Camp Hill, as soon as I got in that joint, the shower was over with. I'm like, nah, I ain't even wash up for real.

SPEAKER_03

What you mean it was over with? Right.

SPEAKER_02

As soon as you get in there, soap on. Soap off, boom, get out.

SPEAKER_03

What if you don't get out?

SPEAKER_02

They gonna fuck you up. They treat you. They coming to get you? Yeah, they treating you. They treating you.

SPEAKER_04

Wow, so it's soap on, soap all. Y'all heard like listen, man, stay out of jail, man. Soap on, soap. What you think it was like about a four-minute shower?

SPEAKER_02

If that, bro, it probably wasn't in four minutes, no cap.

SPEAKER_04

Was the water at least hot? Or no?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, the water was hot and hold. Uh on our block, though, in Camp Hill, the water cold as shit. That shit really like they test you. They trying to break you, you feel me?

SPEAKER_04

Wow, so now so Camp Hill and you did your whole time in Camp Hill was in the hole?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah. I was two months there. I was two and a half months at Grader for in the hole, two months at Camp Hill. Then when I went to Pine Grove, I was there for probably like a month. They ended up grabbing my pill and letting me out.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, they grabbed your pill and let you out the hole. Yeah, yeah. So you did the rest of the time out in population.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

You transferred from to another jail after that?

SPEAKER_02

No, no. I was at Pond Grove until I went home.

SPEAKER_03

So how that was how'd I stay at Pine Grove?

SPEAKER_02

Like, that joint was like, that joint was now that I like I've been through a couple different drones, that joint was nutty. But you feel me, it was cool though.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Feel me? I got in a couple rumbles and shit. Got my shit all tenant. So you go like that. Some you win, some you lose. Some that shit ain't do nothing but help build me though. You feel me?

SPEAKER_04

Exactly, exactly. But it's a grown man or a juvenile.

SPEAKER_02

He was a juvenile. He was like 19, you feel me? I was like 16. What happened? Let's talk about it. What happened? How to fight Rick out? What happened? I ain't gonna lie, I started it on some nut shit. Because I ain't had no tube. You feel me? I ain't had no TV. He had a TV. So I guess he was getting burnt out with me. I come in the cell, he got the TV turned all the way, like.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, he don't want you to watch that at all, though, boy.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, we were celllies, yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Okay.

SPEAKER_02

So I'm like, damn, like this nigga on some nut shit. But me being a kid, I didn't know. Like, now I would have hollered at him, like, damn, what's up, bro?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, exactly. You got you gotta groan a little bit.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, being a young boy, I just went off my own, whatever I was thinking. I snuck him. I'm over top of him, you feel me, punching him and all that shit. He's like, Let me get up, let me get up. We better than that. I let him get up on some dumb shit. I go check the door. Yeah. Worst thing I could ever do.

SPEAKER_03

So you go check the door. Make sure to pull it. Yeah. He checked you.

SPEAKER_02

He got me. Eddie's taller than me, so he got me up and shit. I'm like, man, what the fuck? I black out, no cap. Yeah. Then I'm looking at the button though. Then you can hit the button for a little assistance. Like, are you kidding me? Yeah, man. I'm looking at that joint, like, I should hit this joint. He about to kill me in this bitch. You feel me? I'm like, no, fuck it. I woke up, he was over top of me and shit. Punching me and shit.

SPEAKER_03

Dang. So what they would they did they catch you off of that? Nah, they ain't never catch us. You ain't never requested move out there, Joe?

SPEAKER_02

No, hell no.

SPEAKER_03

So y'all just got cool at the day.

SPEAKER_02

When I got when I got up and shumped looking in the mirror, like, damn, my shit, like, my shit wasn't back that the same time. My shit was a little. I'm like, damn, like, I'm like, bro, we gotta rumble again, bro. You did some nut ass shit. You feel me? Like, he like, no, nigga, you snuck me. Ah, we better not.

SPEAKER_04

So, you feel me? So, how y'all how y'all uh work out after that? Y'all was cool after that? It was like, all right, yeah, because we was already cool at first.

SPEAKER_03

This probably built a f uh a better bond than that rumble.

SPEAKER_02

We end up getting type, but my shit was black as shit for a minute. I go on a block, niggas looking at my mind you niggas hear it though. You know how that shit be. Niggas hear it. So they waiting to see who got fucked up. They wait for motherfuckers to come out the cell. My little ass come out with my shit black. Wow. I was pissed.

SPEAKER_04

Well, you ain't pushed the button or you ain't tell. Yeah, you ain't did none of that.

SPEAKER_02

No. Real shit. But that shit, like I said, I learned from it. Like, if you gonna like if you gonna go there, you gotta be willing to go all the way. Life or death, you feel me? So it's like now that I'm older and I've experienced that, like, I I stay in my lane.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

You feel me? If you like I ain't about to start no trouble, you feel me? Like if you if you start some trouble with me, we gonna all the way. You feel me? Alright.

SPEAKER_04

So now, um, now when did they release you out of Pine Groove?

SPEAKER_02

After like two and a half months, I ended up um I ended up coming home, you feel me? I ended up coming home from all that job. Like I said, I was home for like 12 days catching another case. It's so crazy because I was so young when I caught my case. After two and a half years, I still was 17.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Like when I came home, I was 17, so when I caught my case, I ended up going back on the juvenile block of the county, you feel me?

SPEAKER_03

For another case.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. But this time I'm sneaky, like seasoned a little bit compared to them. You feel me? But like I said, my little brother ended up taking a case and let me out. Feel me.

SPEAKER_04

And now so you so your little brother that they took the case and let you out. And you went back again after that? Or no?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, probably like a couple months after that. For what?

SPEAKER_04

What you went back again for?

SPEAKER_02

For a high speed chase. Man, my little brother again. Little bro might got the chill off you for a minute, man. Man, little bro, stay in the loop. Nah, real shit. We get on a high speed chase. We get rid of everything though. They let him go, they booked me, all this traffic shit.

SPEAKER_04

They end up um You on parole at the time too.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah. I'm on parole still. You feel me? But around this time, uh a state trooper, mind you, I took the uh troopers on a high speed chase, you feel me?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

They end up fucking me up, tasing me on all that shit. They booked me. They end up throwing it out though, because a state trooper got killed around this time. I forgot the boy's name, they ended up sniping like one of the state troopers, so they out looking for the ball. Think his name was like Eric Freen or some shit like that. I forget, yeah. They out looking for him. So, um no state troopers coming to court. They end up throwing throwing that shit out. You feel me?

SPEAKER_04

Like, and what now you you was in the custody the whole time fighting his kids. How much time you was in there for?

SPEAKER_02

Like four and a half months.

SPEAKER_04

And this was a juvenile outside, you still 17 or you was little old?

SPEAKER_02

No, I was adult, now I was like 18. Wow.

SPEAKER_04

And once again, probation getting prolonged. Just keep getting pushed out.

SPEAKER_02

Real shit. Then when I come home from that though, you feel me? I come home from that. Mind you, this time when I go in for the high speed, I got a lawyer this time. My cuz give me a lawyer, Mr. Hemi, he gave me a lawyer, you feel me? That drunk ended up getting thrown out. I come home. I think like seven days later, I end up catching a strap drone, a strap case. Like seven days later, they grab me again. So now I'm in that drunk fried now.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I know you guys got to do it.

SPEAKER_02

I'm gonna be one of them jail boys, you feel me? Always in and out of jail and shit. They end up on. They gave me like five years probation for that joint. Feel me? I just had to max out. I ended up going up Frackville, I max out. That's when I come home with my special probation. I had five years special probation. This was I maxed out 2017. Oh, so you went to Frackville, so you wanted to max out and then come home and you wanna just trying to make parole, but they was on some nutshot. I lost my cool at the parole here. You feel me? They grinded me up. I'm like, y'all keep talking about all the bad shit I'm doing. Like, what about the good shit? Like, y'all not saying nothing about the good shit.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Like I let them trip me on my spot, you feel me? Like I end up tweaking out and shit. They end up like, yeah, we maxing you out. Like, go ahead. But I had like probably like 10 months left to max out. Okay. So I was like, fuck it, it is what it is. I know on this day for sure I'm coming home. You feel me?

SPEAKER_04

Wow. So a lot of people, a lot of times, you know, uh uh people don't understand individuals or children. A lot of times, people understand that once you get in trouble with the once once you catch a case and you get put on probation or whatever the case may be, once you lose that case, now you're at the mercy of the courts, you're at the mercy of the of the jail. And once you're behind that wall, they carry you. Yeah, for sure. They carry you so much, and then you you look up, you you you didn't, like you said, you didn't max that. You end up giving them all the time and something. Nah, right.

SPEAKER_02

That's why I'll be so big on that. Like they one thing about them, they'll try to throw probation at you. They'll try to throw all this probate. We'll let you go right now. You take this probation.

SPEAKER_03

Then the average dude gonna take it. Exactly. I'm going home. That's all you worried about. I'm I'm getting out of here, I'm getting out of here. Go ahead, give it to me.

SPEAKER_02

Exactly. All the time they setting you up.

SPEAKER_03

You say you would you say from your standpoint, you, that a probation is trickery.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, for sure. That's why they give it out so much. They got the conviction, and it's a high chance of you coming back.

SPEAKER_03

They got they they they win it all the way around the board when you get that probation.

SPEAKER_04

Nah, real shit. They doubling down because like you said, the chances of you know, of you coming back is is very, very high. At least I say at least 50% of the people that get these probation uh sentences. 50. More than that for you.

SPEAKER_03

Ain't no problem about it. You just being modest.

SPEAKER_04

It's very high. If it's higher than that, you just like, all right, yeah, I'm gonna give you probation, you come back in here. I'm gonna get I'm gonna get I'm gonna get all this out of you, all this, all this time, I'm gonna get all this time out of you. No, you know what I mean? Now you ended up just getting off. You sit right now, you and you and you how old are you now? I'm 30. So 15 years, the whole uh trial and tribulation just trying to get rid of probation is what hindered you basically, not just the actual case. Incarceration you the probation period extended so far out because of the cases and everything that's going on, and ended up getting 15 years out of you. Yeah, facts.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, they got 15 years out of your life. Nah, bro. From the time you went in there at that 15 until how you feel when you finally got off per road though? Did you party like a rock?

SPEAKER_02

I thought I really was home. Like now I'm really free now. You feel me?

SPEAKER_03

Because I want to know I got that coming up in a couple days. Well, the March 22nd, and I ain't been off no type of like jail or probation since what 94?

SPEAKER_02

Damn. I wasn't that boring.

SPEAKER_03

I'm ready to be, I'm ready to be all the way free. Oh, March 22nd. This March 22nd, I don't owe nobody nothing.

SPEAKER_02

That's a great job.

SPEAKER_03

Nothing at all. So how I want to know how to I want to know what to be looking forward to.

SPEAKER_02

Like, man, that shit felt so good. It felt like the mental cage was like open for you. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03

I ain't got a peaceful person no more. I gotta get called Joe Core. Come down here now, come see me.

SPEAKER_02

Nah, bro.

SPEAKER_03

All that is done with.

SPEAKER_02

Nah, for sure. That shit feels that shit definitely feels crazy. That shit feels good, bro. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

How long you been off now?

SPEAKER_02

I've been off for um like two years now.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, yeah, you living good. No type of uh running back in the middle.

SPEAKER_02

Tomorrow would be five years. I've been home.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03

So uh I could assume that you somewhat learned your lesson about prison.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_03

Would you say jail taught you any good traits though, to carry on with you in life?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, jail taught me a lot, bro. Like just discipline, you feel me? Respecting other men.

SPEAKER_03

You say you got to respect a man in there, don't you? You don't get that respect. You the utmost man if you do that.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, you feel me? Like, I mean apologize. That was in that joint, like putting that wreck in that apologize when they was wrong. Yeah. You feel me? Like that.

SPEAKER_03

And be quick to do it. They're my fault, bro.

SPEAKER_02

Right. You feel me?

SPEAKER_03

Because they know where they know where they go with it. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02

That shit'll get bad, bro. Right. So it was like that shit taught me a lot, bro. Like, be humble, you feel me? Discipline, structure. Taught me a lot. Taught me how to deal with different types of people, too. You feel me?

SPEAKER_03

Different type of people. Ooh, I forgot about that aspect of it. You know how to. Well, me anyway, I know how to identify things. I know how to read the room of men. Probably not women more so, but men, I nine times out of ten, I'm gonna get it right. Exactly. Off of just reading it. Not even conversing with you. Don't let me talk to you. I'm gonna really know it. Right. You know what I'm saying? But that's what Jill has instilled in me also. Nah, for sure.

SPEAKER_04

Now, uh going into going into jail as a juvenile. Like we we always talk about a lot of times, juveniles uh going to go into prison. When they go in there, they they just 15 years old, you still a kid. Yeah, you don't even have to be a good one. Your mom doing everything, basically doing everything for you at that time. Really like he always said you probably know how to wash up the proper man again.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, right. I was thinking like shit when I went in that joint. It taught me how to wash my ass correctly.

SPEAKER_02

Nah, I really do though. It definitely puts you on your hygiene crazy.

SPEAKER_04

But now you get in there and you figure out, like, and listen, like you said, you know, respect, respecting other men. Right. Uh, you know, keeping yourself in your in your cell clean and making sure that you, you know, basically respecting your cell you while you're in there. Right. So these things sometimes are a benefit. But do you think that if you could do it all over again, you would you would just go a whole different path?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, for sure. I'd definitely go a whole different path. You feel me? Just totally different. Like I wouldn't even Yeah, because this shit, this shit, like this shit, like a lot of these young boys, right? They don't be understanding that the streets is deeper than just selling drugs, picking up a pistol, shooting somebody. Like, this shit come with a lot of shit. You gotta really be mentally built for this shit. Like niggas is losing their mind behind this shit. Feel me? In and out of jail, seeing they homies die, you feel me? Getting shot. You got people wanting to kill you. You gotta be on point at all times. You can't do regular shit. You feel me? Like this shit, this shit real. So it's like that shit come with a lot of shit.

SPEAKER_03

Let me ask you a question. From jail into society, where we at right now.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_03

What which which which society or jail, which holds the most respect?

SPEAKER_02

Shit, jail.

SPEAKER_03

I think so too. That's crazy. I like out here, you would I one would think that we in a free world, the respect will be running rampant. Right. In there, the respect is on a beam, bro. On a beam. I'm talking about a slight, a dude won't even walk in front of you. If you're talking to another mate, and if he does, it's a bunch of excuse me's on the way back. Excuse me. Nah, really. Like dudes out here, like if you was to do that in front of somebody out here, they'd be like, damn, you ain't gotta be F them niggas. Oh, for a rap. You can't do that in there. All that ain't no switches and all that in there. You gon' respect, you're gonna learn today.

SPEAKER_02

Nah, real right, though. And it's it's so crazy. This is how you know, like, you just be like sneaky institutionalized because it'd be certain shit that happened. You be like, man, if we're gonna if we was in a penitentiary, he would have got banged out.

SPEAKER_03

I always do that. But he wouldn't be doing that. Motherfucker fart all louder, right? He wouldn't be doing that. Somebody be sitting there talking about their butt smell good and all that, and then that'll stop you from doing that. Yeah, like damn, I can't just be farting around men like that. But this is what prison do, right? We up here to talk about what goes on in prison, so we ain't cutting no corners and all. You can't do none of that in there. All that different respectful stuff that goes on out here, a nigga standing over top of your food and all that. You not doing that in there over your food and all that shit. I'm talking about that's a harvest, but you not reaching over no passing up a nigga kill you for that, bro. You would die. Like out here they ain't nothing. All right, yeah, yeah. I get up and go around you and pass somebody something if you sitting there eating. I'm not doing nothing over top of your tray. Nah, for sure at all.

SPEAKER_04

Wow.

unknown

Man.

SPEAKER_04

So um, I know you mentioned that it was the um, you know, you seen the reality check for you in prison was you seeing um like, you know, men, strong men that were like homosexuals. Right. Was it anything else that cat that had you like, oh, like, dang. Maybe like a knife fight or something of the sort that had you like, damn, I'm I'm I gotta get about here.

SPEAKER_02

See, when I went through as a juvenile, I ain't I ain't see all that. You feel me? Like when I went to, it was just like rumbles and shit like that. You might see a nigga get knocked out. But when I the second time I went back, it was like, all right, you feel me? I'm already like, see nigga accustomed to this jail shit. So when I seen that shit, it was just like, damn, fuck he doing. Because for real, for real, like, as long as you stay in your lane and you be respectful, you gonna be good. You feel me? Once you start indulging in all this different type of shit, now you got yourself in a bunch of shit. You feel me? Like you wanna be, you got dudes wanna be all these different types of gangs, you wanna do this, you wanna do that. You you just doing shit. You don't know what to do, you don't know how to bear, you just doing shit.

SPEAKER_03

And ultimately that comes that'll lead to you getting busted. Exactly. And my and my uh breakdown of busted is your head knocked open.

SPEAKER_04

Nah, for sure. Alright. Yeah, so uh we got this thing we always ask, man, about the lock and lock and sock or that knife. Which one, you know, he probably give it to you.

SPEAKER_03

Well, well, first and foremost, have you ever seen someone get stabbed in prison? Yeah, yeah. Have you ever seen someone get that lock and sock in prison?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, now I'm gonna ask you this question. This is just a hypothetical question, you know, that we asked all the guests to come up here. If you was arguing, having a conversation with a man one day on the unit, y'all getting at it, but dudes break it up because they like, yeah, man, y'all both good men, y'all shouldn't be doing that, whatever the case may be. But y'all calming down, y'all break it up. You know, y'all sound like lightweight squash, damn my fault, man. It was a misunderstanding. Boom, y'all go your own ways on the unit. Now you right there watching TV. Because you thinking everything is cool, but main man ain't feeling like that. Right, though. Main man creeping up on you, unbeknownst to you, you don't know what's coming. You gotta take this L, whatever he ready to do to you. Now, if he had a would you rather him have a knife or that lock and sock that he's ready to use on you?

SPEAKER_02

See, it depends on what kind of knife for real though. You feel me? Because some of them joints be bullshit. Like you might not even know you hit until you're medical. But that lock and a sock, that shit cracked your fucking brain. You going right out. You might not even get a chance to fight back. Yeah, boy.

SPEAKER_03

We like answering that exactly. If you don't know what's coming, you sitting there watching TV. And he winds up on you like Thor.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, you might wake up in a fucking furry.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

So I'm assuming you rather smile at knife than over over at lock and suck.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, facts. Especially in that, in that like circumstance, you feel me?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. Man. So now that you're home, man, you've been home now. You said you've been home about two years. Five. Oh five, sorry, five years. Five years. He went, he said, he said five, give my whole nick out here. Yeah. So you've been home for five years. So what have you been doing now that you've been home? Like, you know, now that you're free.

SPEAKER_02

I've been I've been just standing out the way, working and shit, you feel me? Like.

SPEAKER_03

Do it felt, do it feel better this way?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_03

What's some of the things that make you be like, damn, I ain't, you know what I mean? I ain't got to worry about that. I could put that behind me.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_03

That you're doing now.

SPEAKER_02

You said what?

SPEAKER_03

What's some of the things that's that you have been doing during these five years, that means with the working and all that, right? That you ain't worried about going back to prison.

SPEAKER_02

Shit, um, like the risk of of making my money.

SPEAKER_03

You feel me?

SPEAKER_02

Like, this is a legit job. I'm getting paid for working. You feel what I'm saying? So I know I can't go to jail for that.

SPEAKER_03

Like guaranteed check every week. You ain't taking shorts on that. See, with the game, but the crack, you get locked, somebody get locked up with a whole$2,000 bomb. Nah, right. You hit. And that shit go up and down. You feel me? That pay don't go up, but it stays the same every week. Stay the same. Right deposit. Yeah, yeah. That's shit.

SPEAKER_02

Like, and it's like, like what made me really like switch my pitch and start making me look at things different once I start having kids. You feel me?

SPEAKER_03

How many kids you got?

SPEAKER_02

I got five.

SPEAKER_03

You out here letting them hit the them nuts hit the flow out here. Tell you. You got a all by the same woman or different baby moms?

SPEAKER_02

No, different baby moms. Okay.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, so that's what made you start.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it made me start like looking at life different. At first, I ain't gonna lie, like I didn't like. I was so used to just going to jail, coming home, and just thugging. Like, of course I got my mom, my siblings, people that love me, my family, but I didn't really have nobody that I was responsible for. So once I had kids, it made me like, damn, these kids need me. They need me here. You feel me? Like, if I'm not here, then ain't no telling how their life might turn out. It might turn out for the worse, you feel me? So that shit made me start tightening up. Like, you gotta move better, you gotta move smarter. You feel me? Real rap. At first I ain't I really ain't give a fuck.

SPEAKER_03

But once I had kids, it made me like like really like And what kid did you the first, second, third, or fourth? And which one when you was like, yeah, I'm really the first one. It ain't take you.

SPEAKER_02

When I had my daughter, my first daughter, I went to jail two months later.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, so you went to this your first child? Yeah. And went to jail two months after she was born.

SPEAKER_02

Yep. So it was like that shit was fucking me. I'm like, I gotta get home to my child.

SPEAKER_03

It was really, it was that that was hurting, that was hitting you, man.

SPEAKER_02

I ain't had nothing out. So I'm like, fuck it. Like I can go to jail, do a beard, go home start. I ain't got nobody, you feel me?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

But I'm like, damn, like my child growing up, you feel me, without me.

SPEAKER_04

Right.

SPEAKER_02

Type shit. So that shit maybe tighten up.

SPEAKER_04

How many boys you got?

SPEAKER_02

I got two.

SPEAKER_04

Two boys? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

How older they uh one and uh three.

SPEAKER_04

So I'm assuming you you you you like paying close attention to what's going on with that.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, for sure, yeah. Nah, for sure. I be on them. You feel me? I'll be on I basically like get them everything I didn't have. I didn't really have no no no male figure in my home that really, you feel me? Like my mom raised me. You feel me? So I'm saying, but I be on them, you feel me?

SPEAKER_03

Like, you gonna break that trend.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_03

I respect that, man.

SPEAKER_02

That's why a lot of shit fucked up though, cause like the like You need a man around, man. They don't want to take care of their responsibility, so they duck that shit.

SPEAKER_04

You feel me?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, them kids need us, man.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, for sure. You know, it's gonna be a lot of people that's gonna see this actual interview. Uh a lot of people gonna watch it, man. And um, uh, what's the message you probably want to get to the youthful people out there that's watching, man, about about life in general or just or staying out of prison, whatever it is, if you had to leave a message today, what would it be?

SPEAKER_02

I just like for these young boys, like if you not in the streets, you feel me? Don't even think about getting in the shit. Like, this shit is not what you think it is. It's no, you can't win in the streets, you feel me? You either gonna die or you're gonna go to jail. All the dudes that was in the streets that's winning now, they got out of the streets.

SPEAKER_03

You feel me?

SPEAKER_02

Like, you're not gonna win staying in the streets.

SPEAKER_03

You saying that's an absolutely no.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it's over. There's no win. There's no win.

SPEAKER_03

I agree. I agree. I just want you to put that out there.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it's no win at all. And for the young boys that's heirs in the mix, like y'all that's in the mix, like, if you can get away from this shit, get away. If you can't, just be on point.

SPEAKER_03

Why why did why they should get away though?

SPEAKER_02

Because the shit not gonna, like, it's no.

SPEAKER_03

It's not in it, yeah, it's not ending right. Not from my point anyway.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it's over. It's over. Shit a facade. You feel me? Like this. But if you out here and you feel like you can handle all this shit, just be on point, man. You feel me? Mm-hmm. Be on point.

SPEAKER_04

So how what's the what's the um Chester used to be, I don't know if it's still the same way, but uh a couple years back they say it was like real rough over there. Like it was like crazy. Yeah, that shit was bad. It's still the same way.

SPEAKER_02

I calmed down a little bit, you feel me? We growing up, we getting jobs and shit, taking care of kids, yeah. Shit contracts, you feel me? Mm-hmm. Yeah, that shit, that shit, that shit calmed down a little bit, you feel me? That shit definitely was bad at one point though.

SPEAKER_04

So, you know, I mean um people gonna wanna hear that message, man, and and understand that, like, because you you've been in jail. So you you're speaking from the standpoint of of being in jail, had a a crazy case where they were fifteen years old, you caught a gun case, so forth and so on. And now you're home. Um where do you see yourself, man? Like you say, five, ten years. What do you see yourself doing?

SPEAKER_02

Five, ten years. I'm really trying to be like a fucking uh operator on a truck. I got my CDLs and shit. Okay. So the next five, ten years, I'm trying to have a whole fleet of trucks. You feel me? Like what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_04

How long you been driving trucks? Two years. Two years. You be taking them long trips and long runs? No, local?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah. Local and regional. You don't want to take the long. Why don't you want to take the long trip? Because that's the money in the long drip. Some long shores. That shit, I I'm that shit crazy.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. So listen, man, you know, um, where can people find you at? Where can they if somebody want to reach out to you or follow what you got going on or what do you have going on that that people may make maybe maybe can tap into? What is it that you got that?

SPEAKER_02

Shut up, music and shit, you feel me? Like some R and S shit, saying for real nigga shit, you feel me?

SPEAKER_03

What platforms can they go to and follow you on?

SPEAKER_02

Um, Instagram.

SPEAKER_03

Shout out your uh your Instagram.

SPEAKER_02

Uh you can find me on Instagram at GBS underscore Mac22. You feel me? Yeah, Instagram. Uh videos on YouTube, you feel me? Like, we got a lot going on. Um Chris Mac.

SPEAKER_03

Okay.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, Chris Mac.

SPEAKER_03

Chris Mac on YouTube.

SPEAKER_02

Chris Mac, yeah.

SPEAKER_04

We thank you, man, for coming in and chilling with us and man and spreading your story, man. And before you go, I want to say something. Is there anything you might have left out that you want to say? Like maybe maybe we might have missed something. Something you want to say, something you want to speak about?

SPEAKER_02

I just want to say free the guys, man. Free my brothers, you hear me? Like I'm still rocking with them. I've been home five years. You feel me? They still can call my phone.

SPEAKER_03

Let me ask you this, brother, before we go. You got you, you I see you scream say free the brothers. I do too. Right. Okay, the brother come home. They free a couple of brothers, but they back on the bullshit. When is enough enough for you? Can they keep doing bullshit, going back and forth to jail all the life, and you be there all the time?

SPEAKER_02

I'm definitely gonna always be there, but it might not be as much as I was before. Like, bro, come on, tighten up, bro.

SPEAKER_03

Every time you tell them, but they come out and do the same shit again. Because we got homies like that. Right. I was like that.

SPEAKER_02

Right. But it's like when you love them, like me and my me and my bros, bro, like all us here, we a family, bro.

SPEAKER_03

Like, you feel me? Yeah, we ain't homies, we family.

SPEAKER_02

We family, like real life. Like, we've been around each other since we was this big. And the dudes that's older than us, right? They watch us grow up. You feel me, and become who we are. So it's like, it's deeper than just being friends. You can't just, I me personally, I can't just turn my back on my brothers. You feel me? Like, I'm gonna always be there. I don't care if you're burning me out, none of that. You feel me? Like, I might be burnt out like, oh man, I'm off, bro, for a little bit. I'm never gonna leave you. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03

I respect that.

SPEAKER_04

I respect that. Yeah, I feel the same way, man. And once again, man, we thank you for coming on the show, man, and uh and being up here with us, man. And um, you know, and sharing the stage with us.

SPEAKER_03

Somebody just said that'll cut you off feet. Somebody said that's my nephew, uncle, free his brother Saudi.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, shoddy, yeah. That's talking about RNS Shoddy. Yeah, that's what I was talking about the whole time. Free bro, man. Free, free shoddy, free BJ, free phone, free kizzle, free sauce. They definitely tapped in, they tapped in all over. Yeah, for right.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, got your gang in here. Listen, it's the first time, you know. Uh, you know, we had a lot of we did a lot of interviews, man. And it's the first time I seen somebody coming with 50 people, man. That's how that's how we pull like on a regular we pull up like that. It came 50 deep, man.

SPEAKER_02

Nah, for sure. We like that.

SPEAKER_04

And it's like like your gang supports you, man. And um, that's a good thing, man.

SPEAKER_02

You know, Chester, man, Chester PA. Island Garden section of Chester, man.

SPEAKER_03

Stand up. Y'all hear it right here. Tell us from the Jebs.

SPEAKER_04

All right, sure. And y'all know y'all can find that we on all platforms. Uh, Apple Podcasts. This episode will be on Apple Podcasts, iHeartRadio, uh, YouTube. Um, it's gonna be everywhere. Um, you'll be able to check it out. And also, you'll be able to see uh my guy uh Chris on uh Instagram as well. So um thank you for tuning in, everybody that's been listening. I want to thank you for coming on the show once again. Yeah, I thank you too, man, for giving me a story, man. I respect that, man.

SPEAKER_03

And I think it's like for me anyway, it's therapeutic. Right, right when you get up here and get to talk to some men that understand, because everybody don't understand our language. Right. When we get to start talking about back being in that cell, how it was hot in the summertime and cold in the winter, people ain't never been through that. Be like, well, what the hell? I don't know how to feel about that. Right. Because they never seen that side. Right. When we get up here and do this, I leave out the interview breathing a little bit better, knowing I better not take my behind back to jail. Nah, for sure. You know what I'm saying? So yeah.

SPEAKER_04

So listen, once again, man, we thank everybody for tuning in. Thank everybody who was become who who have become members with uh Tells from the Jails. I want to thank everybody for all their support. Anything else you want to say, Mr. Jess?

SPEAKER_03

Man, stay free, man. It's Saturday, man. We almost to Monday. You know what I'm saying? I don't want to get up here Monday and you're talking about little John John got locked up or little Donnie got locked up after watching Tales from the Jails. You know what to do, man. If if you on it, if you on it and you say you're standing on it, I don't knock that. I Get it. I get you gotta do things in order. I get it. But what I want you to get is it's another side to that coin, man. And that gel that we talk about all the time, man, is real.

SPEAKER_02

And that shit get dark and lonely fast and for a long time, if you want.

SPEAKER_03

Right. Yeah, forever, too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Right, for sure.

SPEAKER_04

All right. So listen, I thank everybody for tuning in. Don't forget to stay safe, stay free, and stay focused.