KEN ROCK : TALES FROM THE JAILS LIVE !!!!

Ken Rock joined the tales from the jails host to speak about what led his to arrest. Ken Rock also spoke about his time behind the federal prison walls.

Transcript

SPEAKER_08 2:07

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SPEAKER_08 3:56

It's time to I want to thank everybody who's been tuning in to Tell us from the Jails. Everyone knows that jail is a serious matter. Us here at Tells from the Jails, we are offering something special to anyone who is currently in prison, on their way to prison, and actually those who are returning from prison. We're offering consultation to anyone who's you know threatened with prison. Tell us from the jails. We're here live in Parvings, USA TNS meeting group of the team and the family. Got my counterpart here with me, Mr. Mr. Braheem Jackson. And we got a special guest with here with us today. Um tell the people who you are, man. Ken Rock, Kenneth Thompson. Okay. So y'all know, man, the podcast, man, we bring up different people to speak to us about different experiences in life. And ultimately, our ultimate goal is to spread the awareness of prison. And we're not glorifying prison in any way, shape, form, or fashion. So anyone who's thinking that and saying that, our goal is not to glorify prison. We're just sitting up here with real stories, real situations, and we just give our opinion about different stuff, so forth and so on. So, um, where you from, my guy?

SPEAKER_01 5:03

Strawberry Mansion, North Philadelphia.

SPEAKER_08 5:05

Keep putting mics look slow close to you? Strawberry Mansion, North Philadelphia. Okay. And you already know the podcast, man. You know how we do. We we speak about experiences, and I'm I'm pretty sure you serve some time.

SPEAKER_01 5:14

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_08 5:15

How much time you serve?

SPEAKER_01 5:16

I serve, um, I've been pretty much getting booked my whole life, but four years ago I came off of service 16 years in federal prison.

SPEAKER_08 5:22

16. For what?

SPEAKER_01 5:25

Drugs, conspiracy. Um, my initial case was 61 kilos of cocaine, um, three handguns. I went to trial 2008, got found guilty, got sentenced to 20 years.

SPEAKER_08 5:37

So no deal was offered to you in the feds, or you or you just tried to fight it?

SPEAKER_01 5:41

Well, you had two, you got two different deals, right? So the initial deal was um it was a 25-year deal, right? I wound up going to trial and wound up beating my deal because I beat charges while I went to trial. And then afterwards, when I got sentenced, if I would have took the left turn, I would have got like five years. But I decided, you know, it is what it is.

SPEAKER_08 6:05

Wow, so you'd have instead of getting the five, you got you got 16. I got 20. I just did 16 on 20. Okay, so I'm assuming the crack laws and whatever else.

SPEAKER_01 6:14

Well, on 20 in the feds, if you do 20, that's pretty much 17 and a half years.

SPEAKER_08 6:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 6:19

I did the drug program that got me a year off would take me to 16 and a half. And then the the crack law and all that gave me like a little quick four months or something when I was in a halfway house. I got out early.

SPEAKER_08 6:31

Okay. Now, um, leading up to, you know, your arrest, and and now what's this, what is an indictment, or was it just they just picked you up?

SPEAKER_01 6:39

So my situation happened um 06. It pretty much was like a um like an attempt to robbery, attempt to kidnap situation. Um, the house got raided or whatever, and when they went in the house, they found like an old ID with my name, my ID on it, the crib. I had fingerprints on the scale, on the heat cellar. They put a warrant out for my arrest. About two weeks later, I turned myself in, and I wind up, you know, coming out of it with a 20-year sentence.

SPEAKER_08 7:09

Well, you know, these uh these types of situations where people get get time or get caught up in these situations, a lot of times we not we not really too familiar with the feds and how they work. Now, were you were you familiar with the feds system at all? Or just that was just your first encounter with them?

SPEAKER_01 7:27

Yeah, that was my first encounter. So before then, I was pretty much county ball. Um, I did, like we mean Bro was talking juvenile, Glenn Mills, all that. At the time, I was 23 when it happened, 24 when it happened, but I wasn't familiar with the feds, but I really thought, honestly, when I was turning myself in, I kind of thought that I was never coming home. You know what I mean? But that's I feel like that's when my mindset was at that time where it really didn't even matter if I was or not. But when I I just felt like I was, you know, I ain't really care, honestly. And then by you know, going through the procedures of the feds, you find out the 851s, we was talking about preponderance of the evidence, the um, all the little guidelines and everything that they got to go over and pretty much do what they want to do with you.

SPEAKER_07 8:12

You said them guidelines just now, Ken Rock. That joint just sent chills to me. And I know y'all probably, you know, the audience is watching, like, why would that send? But you gotta really walk that road to understand that's why we bring you this content at a learning rate to let you know stay out of jail, man. What you just heard this man say 851s and all that, they they know how to break down and give you codes to take away your whole life, man.

SPEAKER_08 8:38

Exactly. And then, well, me personally, I never did any Fed time, but you know, I've I've I've witnessed uh the type of destruction and I heard the stories of uh the feds and how they come and and what happens when the feds get involved. And a lot of times when it when the feds get involved, you know, they the feds come to get you, you're gonna do some time nine times out of ten. Especially if it gotta do with guns and drugs. You're gonna do, you're gonna be away for some time. So that's what I learned from from actually seeing it happen. Now, you get sentenced, right? And I'm to give you your time in months. And then how long did it take for you take for you to add the months up?

SPEAKER_01 9:16

Well, it ain't take me long. That's like a little jump. You know what I mean? People think I got 240 months. But um the thing about um when I got the tick or whatever, I got 240 months. But the thing is, I could I could have got more. You understand what I'm saying? But I wind up spanking, I wound up spanking the 924C, spanking the 922G. 924C is pretty much when you got drugs and guns moving together. And they had that because they at first it was a shooting that got throughout. So the 922G is when you're a convicted felon and possession of a firearm. So when I beat the 924C, I had to come out for a separate trial, beat the 922G, and I was still, I think my guidelines was still like 20, 20 years to up to 27 years. So when I went to got sentenced, the judge gave me the load in, which was 20, 240 months. And I I kind of was like, um, I was just like thankful to get the 20 years instead of the 27. But I pretty much, when you're going through that situation, you know what the months is. You feel what I'm saying? So, like when people say I had to count the months, when you go to trial and you waiting on sentencing, you pretty much know them codes. Like the like this shit, your code, your life is in codes. So when they hit you with 24 months or 27, 240 months, you pretty much know it like that. You feel what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_07 10:39

I want to ask you something, K Rob, because you just said something, man. I want I want you to, you know, dig into what you just said back up for a little bit where you can let the audience and the family know, like how crazy this. You just said I was facing 27 years, and I got 20 and I was happy. Like for men, like I understand I know that terminology and talk. 20 years is not no light low, like 20 years. We talk about 20 years in the penitentiary. All these stories I'm telling you about, 20 years in them places. You be so the feds make you so comfortable with 20. You be like, whoo, I could have got that 40 or 30. I'm cool, I got 20 y'all today. Yeah, they're not playing no games, man. Tell them Kim Rock was how you felt like that. That was crazy. That's a crazy statement, but it's real.

SPEAKER_01 11:21

No, that's a real statement. I remember when um so in the feds is a thing. If you get a dime, there's no time, pretty much, right? Exactly. If you go, if you could walk out the feds with 10 years, then you came up. When I was when I got when I was down, I was 24, 25, around that age, that around that age. But I was watching people get 50s, 70s, and not only that, I was my homies on the street was doing life in prison, 25 to 50s, life. They was getting that. So when I got to 20, and knowing that I could have got 27, I could always see myself at 40, being home because I knew people 40. Exactly. But 50, you understand what I'm saying? Yeah. So I'm like, all right, then my son, I had a son, my oldest son was five. So I was just doing all those, all those numbers in my head. If I come home in 20 years, I still got a chance at life. I come home at 50, then I'd have missed everything. You know what I mean? So it was just like, you know, that's where I was at mentally.

SPEAKER_07 12:19

It's crazy, man. That that you know, you sit there and you think about that, and I know the audience is watching, like, well, how could I be, you know, if you never walked it, so you'll never feel it. And again, we tell you these experiences where you don't never have to walk this road, man. A person would be happy with 20 years, and that's that's really insane. Yeah, if you ask me, you know, I'm saying, like, you comfortable with getting 20 years, but it's a method to this happiness that I got because I'm I received the 20 years just now. I was just ready to get 40 or 30. But 20 years is still an extraordinary amount of time, bro.

SPEAKER_01 12:54

Yeah, you gotta remember when I turned myself in, I'm thinking that I'm never coming home. Right, right. Like that's my mindset. Like, all right, I'll probably never come home. Because I don't know how the feds work, but I know it's a lot of work. Yeah. On the back end, and I'm turning myself in for it. You feel me? So you turned yourself in. I turned myself in. Oh, so he was looking for you, he was looking for me. How did you find out they was going to? So when they hit everything, I was like on the front page of the paper, all that. Okay. So when they hit the crib, um, it was like on a six million dollar drug stash and all that, they pumped it up, but it was a lot of work still, right?

SPEAKER_08 13:26

Actually, um Message, how did how they how did they get to how they hit the how they find you had to inform it?

SPEAKER_01 13:31

No, no. So what happened was I don't know if you remember like 06. That do you remember that feeling? It was a lot of like kidnapping, trunking, like that was the thing right there. A situation that happened or whatever, and they was trying to comfort one of my folks or whatever. So, like a shootout or whatever had happened, and the back of where the crib was at. Then the law ran in the crib and found the work in the crib. You feel what I'm saying? When they found the work in the crib, I had an ID in that crib. And then when they swept the crib, I had fingerprints on the heat cylinder and fingerprints on the glass. Then they put the warrant out for me. When they put the warrant out for me, they put the warrant out as if the crib was mine and everything in it was mine. So at first I was on a run, like, you know, I went out in New York and this and the third. But I still remember the feeling of like, if you ever been on a run, like really like on a run, it's like you damn near not even alive. You feel what I'm saying? Like uncomfortable. Yeah, you just moving in films, like, and then at the time you just getting high, smoking, you can't really holler at anybody. You feel what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_04 14:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:38

And then what happened was for me, was I remember my mom and them called me. I had my young boy had my number. He was the only one that had my number. Like, you throwing your phone out the car. Remember, they used to, if you keep your battery in your phone, they could find it. Yeah, that's around that area. So my mom and my dad had called me like three in the morning from a payphone and just asked me to turn myself in. They was hitting my mom's crib, my grandma's crib, and I just said, effort, I'm gonna do it. And I went and turned myself in. Joe Santa Guida office right there on Broad of Sansum before he passed away. I remember like yesterday, turned myself in December the 4th, 2006. We went up to um, they was looking for me, the district office was up there since they had an Oswald Circle. We was up there, you know, the drain up there all the way up northeast. That the um they got a police district up there by the um airplane drain.

SPEAKER_07 15:30

I think this you were telling me about before when I don't know where it's at though.

SPEAKER_01 15:33

Yeah, right there by the airport, northeast airport. I remember I turned myself in, and I remember when I turned myself in, that's where I was at. I had bought a pair of airmacks, I mean um air forces, cut the hole in them, put some Zannies in the um soul, put some um tobacco in the soul. Because I know that, you know, when you go to the district, you don't the district is the hardest part of getting booked. Exactly. But I made sure I never popped the pill before until I knew I was the detective was gonna come see me because I seen too many people pop pills and sign high. You feel what I'm saying? So I'm like, last thing I'm gonna do is get high, and they go ahead and get me on a statement or something like that.

SPEAKER_08 16:10

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 16:11

So I went, I remember I had it, I had the hole on my sneakers. I go in. Then when I went in, they was like running around frantic. Then a dude called me in, white boy, I guess he was a fed, whatever the case may be. And he was like, Um, you ain't got nothing to tell us. I'm like, no, I ain't got nothing to tell you. I had the card, you know, the lawyer give you the card. If you got any questions, get it the card. So I gave him the card. He's like, that's how you playing? I'm like, yeah, that's what I'm on. And he was like, um, well, you know you ain't never coming home, right? I said I kind of figured that. That was my last time ever talking to an Asian right there. I went into the district, I went into the cell. How old was you again at the country? 24. 20, you was a child. I was a kid. I was like 130 pounds. And then, like, that's another thing. Like, not only I'm 130 pounds running from the Feds, but I'm in the paper for all this work, 61 joints, all this money. Like, I'm 130 pounds. You understand what I'm saying? Like the reality of that situation, it was a it was a it was a it was a heavy situation to be in because not only you running for the feds now, you running from everybody. Somebody see you, you don't they don't know what you got, but the whole thing is they assume this, yeah. This what you this what they this what this is what they send you on. Yeah, you feel what I'm saying? And before that situation happened, like I was running around doing this, that, and the third, and nobody knew what I was doing, or nobody knew what I was involved with, or who I was involved with on that level of things. You feel me? So when it comes to the paper like that, you know, that's like, you know, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_08 17:38

Yeah, wow. And describe, because you I know you went straight to FTC, right?

SPEAKER_01 17:44

No, I actually went to the county for seven months.

SPEAKER_08 17:46

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_01 17:47

Yeah, so I went to the county for seven months because it was never a fair case. You gotta remember they just they just bumped into work. So they had to build a case, and it's ironic, it's crazy. So it was a state case at first. It was a state case at first, but if you ever heard Gill, when Gilly and them say they was on somebody else, that's how they found them, that was us. Because we was in Australia Circle. So when they they run across our crib or whatever, or the crib, whatever, now they're trying to build the case. So they running around. You haven't seen these guys, you haven't seen these guys, you haven't seen these guys. Because they looking for witnesses to come in, because they don't they ain't got no case on this, they just got work. So as they doing that, now they like, no, but what about them?

SPEAKER_08 18:29

You was but you I'm gonna cut you off, but you referring to Gilly and them get caught with the with the weed? With the weed. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:34

That was in the same area, but they tell you, they say he'll say, like, they was on somebody else, that's how they got on them. It was on us. But we was already done. But they running around trying to build a case. So as they running around trying to build a case, that's when they like, no, but what about them? That's how they got on them.

SPEAKER_07 18:51

Who said that?

SPEAKER_01 18:52

So what's neighbors or something? Yeah, so what about them?

SPEAKER_07 18:54

Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, neighbors. My case, they made dudes from 60th Street. We from damn damn near the bottom. We I I got co-defenders that I never met in my life that's some of my best friends right now.

SPEAKER_01 19:07

Yeah, I know. I ran across all your co-defenders in the gym.

SPEAKER_07 19:09

Yeah, like never met them in my life until I went to jail. And they talking about me and him did this together, but I thought they would probably try to do that to you.

SPEAKER_01 19:16

I don't know if they could have, because it was pretty much um, it was working weed. And they never had like a case. They never had, they don't had one person that came to trial and said they was buying work off us. They don't have they never had a case with us, they had work. You feel what I'm saying? And they they did bring in trial. I don't know if y'all want to get there first, but in trial, they brought a dude out. If this dude sit right here next to me, I'll I you know I mean I won't remember until they say his name. But they brought a dude out to say that um he bought work off my code A. He bought work off my code E for a car. Because the whole time they was trying to prove that I was driving his truck. So they brought him up to trial and say that he he bought he bought some work off us and they he was trying to buy the car or something. I never met the dude a day in my life. You feel what I'm saying? Feds is bullshit. Never. They don't care. But they what they was trying to pick, they was trying to because we beat the guns, but they was trying to tie us down to the guns so much. You feel what I'm saying? 924C. 924c. And that would have given me another 15.

SPEAKER_08 20:19

Because you now you're putting the guns and the drugs together, and they said you're using the using the guns to protect the drugs, exactly further another gun.

SPEAKER_01 20:25

Wow, that's what I wound up beating. But they was trying to build a case on it, but they had no case on it. But they brought a ghost dude in there to say that he actually bought drugs from us for guns.

SPEAKER_08 20:37

We were talking about that earlier. Yeah, young. We was in the car. Remember, we were in the car, you said that don't happen. Don't do that. Remember, we just talked about it earlier? What were you talking about? We were saying, I was saying, like, yo, you gotta be real careful who you hang around because it could be somebody that can say you was involved in something that you wasn't involved when the feds come. We were just talking about earlier.

SPEAKER_07 20:52

We were talking about that, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 20:53

Yeah, he just mentioned something similar to that. Somebody he never even met or served said that he served them.

SPEAKER_07 20:59

No, but see, how they they was already on them. So they're gonna use that. Now, if they wasn't already on you, a person can't say like they be investigating. If they was already on you, they gonna use whatever they can use. Okay, from my point of view, from my standards anyway. Would you agree with that, Kenza? Which would you say?

SPEAKER_08 21:18

I'm saying this. I'm I'm what's what we say? We saw much earlier, like say for existence. I mean, for example, I'm sorry, it's a group of guys that are selling coke. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 21:28

Let's be up here and selling coke.

SPEAKER_08 21:29

All right, no, no, no, I'm not selling the coke. No, y'all two selling coke. Let's make it like that. Y'all say we're not, they're not selling coke at all right now. Uh um, y'all both selling coke. I just come around here and there, you know. I mean, I got some stuff going on. I'm legit, but I come around hanging around y'all here and now and then. Y'all got some guys around y'all that friends, our friends. Yeah, y'all got some guys around friends, whatever, associates around y'all that see me come around, y'all, and then y'all all get indicted. Y'all in the in them society, the associates that y'all got. And associates say, Just to get heat off of them. No, Tafique, he he served me some coke before. But he came around here and there. But they I mean, the feds can probably take go off of that if they wanted to.

SPEAKER_01 22:10

Try they would have had to prove it to a certain extent, though. Okay. Yeah, yeah. I understand what you're saying though. Now, if you was already booked for some work, yeah, yeah. They can use that. Yeah, then they could just I could you could be booked for some work, right? Even if it's 20 years ago, 30 years ago. Seven years, I think.

SPEAKER_08 22:26

Okay, okay, cool. All right.

SPEAKER_01 22:27

You could be booked for some work, right? And then say I'm in a county and Allen, say I'm in a county in Red, and um I'm facing all this time. And they might be like, listen, we need you to say that they know we know each other. We need you to say that Tafiq was selling you some work, and we'll go ahead and drop this gun case out here. Next thing you know, I'm in your joint saying that you served me some work. Never seen me in your life. You understand what I'm saying? Because they just trying to build the whole thing about trial is trial is nothing but a story. The best director win. That's it. All you're doing is selling a story to a jury. You don't need no evidence, just sell a story. That's it. Once you go to trial, because the indictment is the evidence. The indictment builds the case. Now, once you say I want to, I'm going to trial, now all we gotta do is tell 12 people, we gotta build the story in front of 12 people. And it's most like little things they was doing with me, bro. They would do they had the physical work. So they would. Oh, so they actually had it. They had the work. Yeah, it wasn't ghostwork. It was physical work. Okay. 61 drinks.

SPEAKER_08 23:32

They bought they bought it in the courtroom?

SPEAKER_01 23:33

Bought it in the courtroom, set it in front of the jury. Every time that every time the prosecutor walking, he talking with the gun in his hand, everything. They would do things like subpoena my my kids' mom, subpoena my dad, subpoena all of them. Because if you get subpoenaed, you can't sit in the courtroom. So when you subpoena your family, now you then you look to the jury, it's like you got no family supporting you. And I didn't even know that. You taught me something just now. They subpoena what my dad knows about me selling work?

SPEAKER_08 24:04

Nothing.

SPEAKER_01 24:04

You understand what I'm saying? That's a dirty game, but they subpoena you. But and especially do it when they don't have a case. Because now they all these little, it's all psychological. It's all these little things they playing. They playing on people's feelings, emotions, thoughts.

SPEAKER_07 24:19

That right there is a big time feeling. Yeah, it's a feeling. They can't even come in the job. Like, oh yeah, he he went on Memphis. Yeah, I know my hair for him.

SPEAKER_01 24:29

It's all uh mental war game.

SPEAKER_08 24:32

But shouldn't your your lawyers mention that to the to the jury?

SPEAKER_01 24:35

Well, it's certain things they can't do. Yeah, it's certain things they can't do. So one thing I had Wow where Joe Santa Guida was on the case, my my my Cody got him. I remember, I remember when um Joe tried to kick the drugs. Um like, forget about this, don't close. Then they fell. Trying to kick the judge. In the courtroom? In the courtroom, yeah, because they all know this. Like, this isn't nothing new. So when you got work like that, like we we could, I mean, 61 joints look like 61 joints. That's what they had. They had 61 physical kilos of cocaine. So when you got that right there, and people only see it on TV, and then they see it right in front of their face, and they see I had my code defender, one dude was my man, and then I had a girl. She was a girl. It's us three in there, yeah, and they painting this picture. Like, you know, it's very, very hard to beat that.

SPEAKER_08 25:30

And the girl ain't full.

SPEAKER_01 25:31

She ain't full.

SPEAKER_08 25:32

How much time she got?

SPEAKER_01 25:33

She wound up getting 36 months. She got filmed guilt. She beat the everybody beat the conspiracy, but me. I got conspiracy to the unknown. That's what we were talking about earlier. That's other games that fast. But conspiracy supposed to be two or more people, but you could also get conspiracy to the unknown when you got a drug amount where they say there's no way you could deal with it by yourself.

SPEAKER_07 25:51

Exactly. And you might have been dealing with it by yourself. They like, no, we don't care about that. You had other people with you, and we don't need them here to give you this charge. Yeah, we don't need them.

SPEAKER_08 26:01

Wow.

SPEAKER_07 26:01

That's a different type of dog gang, boy.

SPEAKER_01 26:04

She she she wound up getting 36 months, and she wound up getting um managing the house with drug trafficking. My other code wound up getting nine years, he beat the conspiracy, he wound up getting it was three joints on the table that he got. I got everything in the walls and any anything in the house. So had 58 was in the walls, three was on the table.

SPEAKER_08 26:25

Wow. So if them three wasn't on the table, y'all would have been good.

SPEAKER_01 26:29

Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, because they would have ran in and they wouldn't have seen nothing and they never had a warrant. Or yeah.

SPEAKER_08 26:35

So who fault was they left? Who left on the table? Y'all just was.

SPEAKER_01 26:38

Yeah, it was just on the table. Yeah, yeah. It was it was all types of situations that happened that made it get on the table. Yeah, but you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_08 26:45

Simple mistake.

SPEAKER_01 26:46

Simple mistake, boy. But I mean, like we were talking about it earlier, like at the same time, like when we when we talk, we were talking about it earlier about like accountability, accountability, right? And even about the cutter, like when we talk about that, it's like yo, that was that night was the best thing ever happened to me in my life.

SPEAKER_08 27:04

Because the law could have you could have lost your life.

SPEAKER_01 27:07

And anybody could have lost their life as well. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, and not just me. If anybody, if anybody would have lost their life, like you'd I'd have still been wearing that. You know what I'm saying? Exactly. So, and then like just the journey within itself, it's like it was, you know, it was nowhere in the world for me to, yo, a loss man or Allah took me out of that situation and put me where I was supposed to be, because he he the, you know, he didn't know of all. But at this, at the same time, it would I wasn't supposed to be in that situation. I was a kid. You feel what I'm saying? Fast in a hurry.

SPEAKER_08 27:42

Try 130 pounds, and they know you're getting it like that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 27:45

He's a kid. I'm a kid. He's a child. Yeah. You got grown men that ain't never even getting nothing like that in their life.

SPEAKER_08 27:53

I just want to say, I mean, I like I don't know if I should ask this question or ask whatever you want.

SPEAKER_01 27:59

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 28:00

You know, you could leave out what you want to leave out. That type of work, where would you get that type of work from? 62, like that, those type of keys. Yeah, I'm just saying, like, was it what you could say whether it was a it was a uh American, uh Mexican?

SPEAKER_01 28:14

Well, at this time in 06, like um the atmosphere, it was a lot of work all around the city. Um it was a lot of work. You gotta remember before those cartels and all that fell. The cartels I think fell in Chicago and all that in Texas. Yeah, man. They fell like 07-08 around that time. But in Philadelphia, you you had like it was just a bunch of workout. And you had Mexicans coming, giving out work. And the only at this time, if you can move it, you could get it. And that was just how it was. You know what I mean? They was just throwing work. But with me, I wasn't like a person going to go get the work. I was just a young boy that I'm just a very like good-hearted, loyal, heart, even in the space I'm in now. Good, good, good dude. I'm a good-hearted dude, I'm extremely loyal. And I work till the sun comes up and go back down. You feel what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_04 29:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:09

And it was the same thing then. I was just a person that somebody could trust. A person that, yo, I need you to do this, I'm gonna do it. I'm not gonna be like, yo, we got this going on. You feel what I'm saying? So I was just in a very, very trusted situation in that space, yeah, and I had access to anything you needed.

SPEAKER_08 29:28

How long, how long, how long would it? I mean, I'm I don't know if you can say how long would it take for you to move 61 keys?

SPEAKER_01 29:34

Back then, I mean, them drugs like, you know what I mean, 30 days, something like that. Because back then, drugs was a thing in 06, like, you know what I mean? Like, you still had blocks. Correct. You might have, like, you know, y'all drink, you know what I'm saying? You had blocks that are due 2030, whatever the case may be. And then you could you could easily say 510 10 510, and it's going like that.

SPEAKER_08 30:01

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 30:02

Because that five broke down going to whatever it may go.

SPEAKER_08 30:05

Smile might come to you like, yo, I'm gonna buy two, you might have to take two more.

SPEAKER_01 30:08

Yeah, with them work, you just gonna give it. Because you just trying to get rid of it. And you can stay in the laws.

SPEAKER_08 30:14

And you don't want to get and the main thing is you don't want to get caught with it. So the main thing is just get off of it as fast as possible.

SPEAKER_01 30:19

You gotta get rid of it. And that's that was like the mindset back then. I think that was the like the wave of the city. I think that was like, I know I got booked after that, so I really don't know, but I really feel like that's where everything was taking a shift from hustling to robbing and to just killing.

SPEAKER_08 30:35

I know how it was for me. I'm gonna say this, I'm gonna ask you this question.

SPEAKER_01 30:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 30:39

When I used to feel I used to feel uh a relief when I handled when I handle work. Yeah. I just always thought of it. Go to sleep. Yeah, like I used to feel a relief. Like I wasn't worried about the cops coming and nothing. I just was like, you know what I'm saying? When you ain't got nothing, you just get a feel like a sense of relief. You gotta relief. I just thought it was just me. But yeah, like that relief of not having whatever it might be. Sometimes you be happy to hear it ain't nothing around right now.

SPEAKER_01 31:04

Because you could be relieved, bro. It's like you can't you can't sleep at night. Like, like it's a it's like a you everything is tense, everything is like like you feel it in your back, and it's like, and then everybody, you trying to, especially when you're trying to look out for everybody. Because you feel bad if you ain't got nothing for nobody else. It's not even about you. Yeah, like that's what it turned into. It's like your whole life is about somebody else. Even if they're doing you dirty.

SPEAKER_08 31:31

And during that time, was you the same, like, was you, you know, we're speaking candidly, you know. Yeah, another thing is I I would never want to do nothing at night. Like, I would never want to like you the same way, like and I would never serve nobody or trying to.

SPEAKER_01 31:46

No, I ain't care.

SPEAKER_08 31:47

At night too?

SPEAKER_01 31:48

Yeah, I was a kid though. Yeah, so I don't know how older you were. You were.

SPEAKER_08 31:53

In 06, I was a kid. I was what? I was that was 20, I was, I was 44, I was 23.

SPEAKER_01 31:57

Oh, yeah, I'm older than you. Damn.

SPEAKER_08 31:59

Yeah, but I I would never want to at night. I was like, yo, like, what's because at nighttime I just always heard about somebody getting murked, rocked, the the law, like put like so because I always felt like with that many cars on the road at night, so you get pulled over. And around that time, they had the uh the highway cops with no with no lights on the top. And they was pulling anything that had tin on it, they were pulling it over.

SPEAKER_01 32:22

Yeah, I was on the tip, man. I ain't really cared. I I I'm gonna keep it real, and I ain't knowing no like no crazy stuff, but I really feel like like I ain't have no value to my life, like my life wasn't like I didn't value my life to the point where like I don't want to go to jail, I don't want to get killed. You feel what I'm saying? It was I was more so on the tip, like it is with bird man, baby. I'm flying in any weather. I'm like, I'm on rap time, I'm on, I'm just out here. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, it wasn't really the conscience, it wasn't there as far as life.

SPEAKER_08 32:53

Now let's get to it. So you was in the county for a minute, let's go go to that.

SPEAKER_01 32:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 32:58

When uh when did you know the feds was coming to get you?

SPEAKER_01 33:01

Alright, from the rip, kinda, because that night we knew that they was at the um space. However, they took about seven to eight months, seven months to build the case, but they started pitting out indictments on grand jury drinks. So my dad might call me, yeah, the feds called me, I gotta go down there. Or my young boy, they go to my young boy's school, he was going to mansion. Um, yo, the feds came and got such and such out of school, or they did this. So you know they running around trying to, you know, get information. People might say, yeah, they contacted such and such, or the feds went to such and such. But in the back of my mind, we think we gonna beat the case in the state because our discovery was so weak. Our discovery in the state was totally different than our indictment in the feds. Even how they got in the house, everything just totally switched. So I remember going to preliminary hearing in the in the county, and they was this close to throwing it out in the county. So it just like we just knew that the feds wasn't gonna have enough evidence to pick it up. And then um I remember the day I got my indictment, me and my cellar, we was on D23. We break it down the Chi Chi in the cell, and they slid the mail underneath the door. You've been indicted. I'm like, dang, that's how I got my indictment.

SPEAKER_08 34:22

And then hit you like, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:24

I remember one, two, or two, me and my Cody, we was um, we were celllies in the county. And he had went to court for something, like uh another case or whatever. And they had came and pulled me out. It wasn't the Fez, it was the um the Marshalls to pull me out for a DNA. DNA, right? Yeah. DNA, a swab. Cotton swab. A cotton swab. They pulled me downstairs. And I'm thinking it's the lawyer because they come as a legal visit. So I'm like, damn, a lawyer here, woo-hoo. I go down, it's the marshals. They pulled me there for a cotton swab. But they calling for him too, but they find out we selllies. And that day they found out we were celllies, he was shipped to pick the next day. So we could never be celllies again. You feel me? And that's how I knew, like, all right, they really own us.

SPEAKER_08 35:14

And then can you refuse that that DNA swap?

SPEAKER_01 35:17

It's a warrant. It comes with a warrant.

SPEAKER_08 35:19

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 35:21

It was mad against you though. No, I tried to talk crazy, right? Um when they came down, I'm like, I ain't, you know, I'm on my joint. I'm in the F. Like everything's a game. You feel me? I'm like, I ain't doing that. Ooh, they got a warrant. We got a warrant. I ain't doing it. But you boy, I'll promise you. He said, we could do this the easy way or the hard way. I'm like, man, just give me the swab. I'm faking in this jaw. Just give me the swab. Give him the swab because it got a warrant for it. So they could get it however they want. You know what I mean? They got a federal warrant for your swab. And then they want, did they wind up, they wind up, they wind up, um, because it was a shooting that occurred or whatever, and it was a hat found on the scene. They wind up taking that swab, they matched it to the DNA that was in that hat, but that hat had matched like over a hundred different DNA strains or something. So they couldn't use it in trial. Because I guess when you go to a, you know, it's a hat.

SPEAKER_08 36:16

So it ain't no telling how many people tried it on before they bought it or something.

SPEAKER_01 36:21

Exactly. So that's only the DNA came out like that, but it wasn't. But they came and got it though.

SPEAKER_08 36:28

So now the day they came and picked you up. Yeah. How was that?

SPEAKER_01 36:32

I remember like yesterday. Um it was August 1st, 2007. Um, they picked me up. I knew they was coming or whatever. It was the um CEO tell you, like, yeah, they're gonna come get you in the morning or whatever. I stayed up. They wound up coming and get me in um in the expedit, it was an expedit the excursion. Remember the big drinks? Yeah. Came and got me in the excursion. And they came and got me and my Cody. My Cody was at Pick. They gripped me. They came around there and got him. And I remember, I remember riding and saying my homie, my homie was actually on Expressway. I was just looking at my homie as we on the uh in the excursion, yeah, tinted up. And I remember looking at my homie who I used to be out there with, riding up 95. And I'm just looking like, damn, he don't even know.

SPEAKER_08 37:17

I'm in the back of this joint.

SPEAKER_01 37:18

I'm in this joint, like right next to yeah. He they know I'm booked, but they don't know I'm in this excursion next to them. Cause it's tinted up. And I remember just riding by, I'm like, dang, look at my man. And we go to FDC, you go through all that, the intake or whatever. And I remember um this right around the time when all that situation happened when they got caught, like when the microphone was in the cell at FDC. They remember when me and my Cody came, they said they ain't had no rooms for us. And they wound up throwing us in a hole at FDC, and the showers didn't work. And we just kept saying, like, we know the joint in here or whatever. The the you know, the um the mic. We know the mic was in there. And my reality moment was remember the Fort Dick Six?

SPEAKER_08 38:00

Fort Dick Six, what is it?

SPEAKER_01 38:02

The um the bulls, the Arabs, so they was they were saying was doing terrorism.

SPEAKER_08 38:05

I don't remember.

SPEAKER_01 38:06

They was shooting the guns, they had them on like shooting AKs and all that.

SPEAKER_08 38:09

I don't know. No, or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 38:11

It's like right up, it's in 06 or this five years after the bombing or whatever. But they had booked them, they called the Fort Dick Six. They were some Arabs, they had guns or whatever, and they were shooting, they had them for like a terrorist case. And we was in the hole, and we was in the hole with them, going to the yard with them. I'm like, dang, this joint crazy. You feel what I'm saying? Then they took me down, I went to far north, and you know, I learned how to be a fed. I learned how to be in the feds.

SPEAKER_08 38:35

He always talked about that walk when you first get to FDC that under the tunnel, under the ground, John. Yeah, how was that for you seeing that?

SPEAKER_01 38:41

Like, yeah, it was um, I remember the first one, but I was kind of was with my Cody. So it kind of was taking the sting off a lot of that. Like, wasn't doing that.

SPEAKER_08 38:49

Y'all just going through the motion to get y'all talking.

SPEAKER_01 38:50

Yeah, we talking, we ain't see each other in months. Yeah, we talking, we just like going through the motion, like, damn, looking. We in the feds. We expected to be there, but I would say, like, the moment that I knew I was in the feds, is you know when you go see the counselor? When you you when you first come in the feds at FTC, the counselor's joints upstairs.

SPEAKER_07 39:10

Upstairs on the top tier.

SPEAKER_01 39:11

Yeah, and you go see the counselor and he asks you, do you got any separations? Or is you testifying on anybody? And I'm like, What? Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, coming from the county today, you like, ain't no such thing as testifying. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_07 39:25

Let's let's back up. Uh right, they usually ask you that when you get in process in. SIS come see you. Yeah, SIS. And before you even get to your unit, they'll come see you and be like, Well, listen, have you cooperated on anything? And they do that every time you come back from court, too. They do it every time you come back from court. Every time you come back from court, they'll call you in there and be like, have you cooperated today?

SPEAKER_01 39:43

Yeah, do you got any side you want to get separate from? And I remember coming out the joint, like when my face screwed up, and um, old hair bala, what's the name? Old hair bala or whatever. He like, what's your face all screwed up for? I'm like, man, boy, asking me if I'm telling. I'm still a kid. You feel what I'm saying? So I still got that badge to join on me. Like, he like, let me show you something. He walked me to the to the tear. He's like, How many people you think down there? I'm like, probably what, 100, 150 people. He said, I'm gonna say 150. He said, if it's 150 people down there, 130 of them cooperating with the feds. Didn't believe me.

SPEAKER_08 40:16

Damn.

SPEAKER_01 40:17

Lo and behold, if it was 150 people down there, 130 of them was cooperating with the feds. Promise you. That's the feds.

SPEAKER_08 40:26

Wow. And you sit next to people that's hot.

SPEAKER_01 40:29

Like he knows the thoroughless ones on the compound. They the thoroughless ones.

SPEAKER_08 40:33

And they snitching.

SPEAKER_01 40:34

Snitching.

SPEAKER_08 40:35

Stay free, man. For those who out there breaking law, out of 150 people, 130 people were telling.

SPEAKER_01 40:42

I promise you. He telling, at the moment you can't remember you can't fandom it. You like, ain't no way. But then lo and behold, as time goes on, you like, dang, dang.

SPEAKER_08 40:52

How was you dealing with people that you know tested? Did you find out people that was thorough that told how how did you deal with that?

SPEAKER_01 40:56

After a while, like with me, it was like I was going to trial, so I was around trial boards, right? But even when you go into trial, it's like the ones that's the loudest on the block, the ones who might got bred or whatever the case may be, they whatever it is, it's the thoroughest ones on the block, right? Because you're not a part of that space. With me, I just I just hung around people who was helping me with my situation. You feel what I'm saying? I'm not a person that be like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, boo, woo, woo, woo. I just stayed on myself. But then I remember when I got sentenced, and it was like, they was that was like a running joke with them. You feel what I'm saying? And then you had dudes who was probably getting some bread or whatever the case may be, and they was telling, and you know, it nobody really cared. But to me, I was just, I was just chilling, bro. I wasn't like who hi, who not. I just stayed with people who helped me with my case. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_08 41:54

Uh anything, anything interesting about uh FDC that people probably don't know about? Like I know because we hear about the phone on the block that people call used to tell. What's something else that was interesting that you that you saw that was like wow?

SPEAKER_01 42:05

I seen people calling home because the phone's recorded. I seen people calling home on recorded phones, asking people what they're doing. They own homies. You feel what I'm saying? Yo, what happened with such and such? And you know, you on the street, your old head calling you. Yeah, we did that. Woo, woo, woo, woo, woo, woo. Don't even know. That they might be most likely getting aligned up on the phone.

SPEAKER_07 42:26

I'm talking about at an alarming rate is going on. Yeah. If it was like that, then it's 10,000 times worse than now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 42:34

Wow. People is calling home, like talking to their homies and getting them brought in there on getting them. And they sitting in there wondering why the hell how how y'all know?

SPEAKER_01 42:41

And then it's like, Yeah, you want to drink?

SPEAKER_08 42:42

And they got you recorded, saying it.

SPEAKER_01 42:44

They got you recorded. Then you got people, I know you probably had that to hop on people's cases, John. You never hear about that. People hop on your case.

SPEAKER_08 42:51

Uh, because you could they've been your seller, you start talking to them, and then they say that you that he's saying that you told him.

SPEAKER_01 42:56

Yeah, you told him. You got people that'll read your paperwork, snake your paperwork, tell. I mean, that John is like, you know, it's a rough situation. Um especially if like I remember like like none of my me and none of my co-defenders told. We all went to trial. We all um stood on whatever what we were standing on at that time. But it's it's hard to see people not tell in that job.

SPEAKER_08 43:24

Now, you because we spoke about your trial getting sentenced and all that, right? What was the first jail you went to like that was upstate, like feds?

SPEAKER_01 43:34

Yeah, I went to FCI Ray Brooke.

SPEAKER_08 43:36

Um that's where he went to too.

SPEAKER_01 43:37

Yeah, that and I didn't want to go to that jaw nine hours away.

SPEAKER_08 43:41

Nah, that's I was everybody you said nine, it's only six hours away.

SPEAKER_01 43:44

No, it's nothing.

SPEAKER_07 43:44

You can't let the job that's what I told you, bro. They got shortcuts and all that. Bro, they got all types of bro. That joint was nothing.

SPEAKER_08 43:58

Listen, let me think about listening. When I when I when

SPEAKER_07 44:00

time i came to you can't rock i needed you up you might you might be right i don't know because i remember i remember i remember uh sugar drove box drove and i drove and that's only six hours which i drove two hours a piece i think but i don't know i had i forget but i'll drove three hours a piece that's nine and a half yeah man yeah i mean i don't remember but i know we all took turns driving to get up there yeah that's a nine and a half bar um yeah so you get the fci ray book ray ray brook that's uh near almost in canada damn yep and that was what what was that experience like for you like getting up there seeing that like because i'm assuming that's a lot different than that in chem rock i want you to take it all the way back like like it ain't like the state you going in you likely to see a couple homies because you in you know the county you know you got all you know woodsville north for you in a whole nother i want to hear from you how was that for you to get off that go through RD and come out with your beard roll onto the compound let's talk about pulling up pulling up to it first like pull up pull up to the extra I met you before that though it's Lewisburg before that and Lewisburg is the first stop the transit the transit and Lewisburg is like what you see on Gaudi yeah you feel what I'm saying like this this Lewisburg penitentiary like a historic yeah it's like federal prison that's the like it's one of the oldest prisons in the country and it's all transit you come in for they had a unit it's a prison they just had a transit unit oh wow like Atlanta do yeah you stop there first and I'm like yo I'm in Lewisburg you feel me and then you go you stay there for like a week or something like that and then you go to Raybrook but when I went to Raybrook like I remember I'm still like 130 pounds I'm a I'm a kid I'm like 25 130 pounds I go up there I remember um old boy puff you know puff puff from there y'all asked George yeah George so he was up there with you he was on a bus with me when he got back the me and him was on a bus together on our way up there so he was already up there sad to say he back in the feds now and again too oh man another federal beef wow wow that was so long ago yeah that was over 25 years ago yeah that's what I'm saying um we was on a bus together riding up there so he telling me little things or whatever but you know I never been upstate either like I never been upstate so when I get there or whatever the blessing for me is I went the first thing I do go to the they move me in the cell with these Mexicans so um when I go in with the Mexicans um Marshea was on the block or whatever you know they waiting for Philly to come you know I mean anybody from Philly they waiting to see who coming from Philly they want to know if you hot or not whatever the case may be so when I went in there I went in there with the Johns Marche know coming there he like you from Philly I'm like yeah he like um what's up with your situation I'm like no I'm good I want the trial everything like always already tell me what to say when I got there so he like all right then we go to the yard when you go to the yard it's like it you know Ray Brookyard it got to be what two three hundred people out there on the yard and I went up there in like April May or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 47:06

So it's nice it's just nice outside it's nice yeah so everybody out there everybody walking and I just was like you know taking it all in and then I wind up moving out of the cell with the Mexicans maybe like um two three days. How many was in the cell six I was in the sixth man I was in the sixth man and I was like the only black in that joint so they getting you out of there you're like same thing of a Mexican coming there with five blacks yeah they gonna get you out of there or whatever the case may be and I moved in with um I moved in that joint with Marshea Marchea introduced me with Leek and then I used to be with Leek and Marche every single day. They pretty much Marche Leek Salone um from Southwest Sput that got um killed Tyreek and a few others man they raised me in that joint I got raised I got raised from a kid to a young man in Ray Brook Wow I did not do a pull up or a dip until you got there until I got there let me say something real fast a shout out to uh uh Tyrell Barnes for the donation also uh King Raleigh Lawn Care 77066 for the uh becoming a member and J homie92 for the donation appreciate y'all man thank y'all so much um now uh FCI Ray Brook you get there you you say you wasn't you using there with the Mexicans now you get you starting to get acclimated to everything that's going on what was the most difficult part or or the diff the most difficult transition for you getting there and getting settled in I would say um the most difficult thing there is quite your relationship with your kids your family your girl or whatever the case may be at that time that's like the most difficult the external things but the internal things is too like um you gotta carry it in that joint you feel what I'm saying so you gotta be like all right I'm willing to whatever we carry in so in Ray Brooke it's like you can it on a card that you didn't tell you carrying it on you from Philly you 066 so when anything go down you gotta make your mind up that anything go down anywhere I'm at then I'm going. So you gotta be willing to like stab, be stabbed, be killed or whatever or just show up to the rumble in any situation because this what you walking into you feel what I'm saying? Yeah and I will say that the most impactful thing was and I was telling Bradis and I had a conversation with Leek about it was just the growing up of being a man in prison like keeping your word like I remember one time with Leek I was like gonna meet me in the yard he like yeah and I ain't never go to the yard and when I didn't go to the yard it was a big thing about it not a big thing but it was like there was there was the opportunity for them to chastise me like yo when you say you're gonna be somewhere you gotta be there because now Leek was the only one out here and what if something would have happened he thought he was meeting you so it's little things like that. Then it was another situation that happened going back to the who hot who not join when somebody was down FDC and you know they was in activities like pretty much like it looked like they was telling or whatever the case may be. So when this person came up to there I said it I'm like yo he was telling this and the third but I ain't have like paperwork on him I didn't have nothing legit to say it. So it kind of turned into something and reek um sput walked me the yard with me told me listen young I don't know what he did but if you ain't got nothing on it then you don't say it you feel what I'm saying and that right there was a was a was like a um an eye opener for me because it was like you be standing on this and who's hot who's not this that and the third and that's not really what that joint about running around saying who told it whatever your whole thing is like I'm not telling I'm standing on what I'm standing on and if I'm willing to say what somebody else did I gotta be willing to fight just to say what he did. You feel what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_08 51:10

Yeah so that was like an eye opener for me too just like breaking away from like all this false shit to be out here so to say like out here you can say anything you can say what you want to say and there you gotta be able to stand on everything you say to the full you feel what I'm saying exactly so being in um FCR Ray Brook and you know you're getting up there and I know I know it's a whole different world uh in the feds everything is like you know is different like you said he always say about it as being so geographical you know SARS uh states he might be from DC Washington I mean wherever you from West Coast you know Serenos whatever they these how long did it take you to get adjusted to that that that whole system um well I learned the system my first couple days being from Philly being Muslim being from Philly the Philly table muslim table that's all right there in the same area um so I kind of like learned it from the rip and then what happened with me was pretty much I was the youngest person there with the most time so people my age ain't really had my time they might have had a dime at the most five sevens eights maybe at 15 but I had a fresh dub and I went to trial so what Marche and them did Marche got me a job at the library I worked at the library and all of them hung up at the law library every day.

SPEAKER_01 52:36

So I wound up going to the law library I wound up going to library every single day Monday through Friday from 12 o'clock to like 8 o'clock at night so I wound up missing a lot like everything that was going on the yards the games and all that I wound up missing all that because I was always in the law library but it wound up helping me on the on the long end but I got accumated I got ac I got like accumulated whatever with them more so than just like like the foolishness that was going on yeah I was more so around Marshea Tariq um Talib all the old heads that was in the library all day they fighting 40s 50s lives you feel I'm saying so I'm like that's when my hangout spot was in the library you know what I'm saying now a few moments ago you mentioned like you know you said your girl yeah my girl how long was that relationship when you once you got once you got locked up man how long did it last I don't know you know I mean I would say it probably last an hour you feel me an hour most likely yeah you feel me probably last but I mean for the most part like I had a girl I was I was loving her you know what I'm saying but I think what hit me with was like you know she came up a few times in the Ray Brook and I respect her to that for that that's a long ride why so no she came up with like her and her sister but they came up to see me you feel me yeah before like sometimes we had people that come up you know they come up in groups but she came up um her and her and her sister by themselves so I respect her for that like I respect her for you know period I don't expect nobody to ride like that but it was hard because I kind of was falling more in love well while I was booked more so than I was home you know what I'm saying you know how you fall in love in prison yeah I fall in love yeah yeah yeah so like outside it's like I'm out here I'm doing me but in prison it's like those letters mean something you're more needy you're more needy and me I was a lot more needy yeah yeah yeah you was in that phone booth what Ray Brook got some crazy joint they got the nice little indoor joint you go in there shut the door behind you you don't hear all the loud talking on the unit you can go ahead with the towel be hit down the corner Ray Brook joints is serious they the only ones that got that if Ray Brook got a phone room man that joint is like a love booth in there yeah dudes be there bigger love you dudes come out that joint man you could you could smack them when they come out of there they they a different dude when they come out of there so so so you you said it's not even an hour so you know what happened man like did she did she tell you she was cutting it off or you just found out the bottom not answering the phone what happened no I think um I think when I got booked like the reality of the situation I think she was trying to ride to the best of her ability when she was young she was 22 years old she had no kids at the time um she was trying to ride but as time goes on you know how they get when you know when they not ride no more when they act like you did something to them you know I mean you didn't do this that the third and now they not answering the phone or whatever or whatever so when that when they start answering the phone you know you got to go through about a week two weeks you know I mean then you just really move on I found myself in prison moving on from girl to girl or whatever the case may be and it and it's just keeping like it's it's something that just keeps you alive.

SPEAKER_07 55:58

I guess a girl keeps you alive by doing that jail answering the phone sending a little cup of dollars yeah and just like even that emotion of where you at or somebody asking you telling you they love you or just some dudes going that drink go crazy a female voice like you'll see dudes talking to CEOs just to feel their voice the vibration of their voice you know I'm saying so that might be a thing too like in there you just need a feminine voice to keep you at some feminine comfort you around men grown testoster testosterone all day long Monday through Sunday ain't no days off you don't get no 10 minute break then come back on no this is your life for the sentence that they passed down to you in the court system.

SPEAKER_01 56:44

Yeah you're around men wow and still I mean you know when you came home did you see it when you came home yeah I seen it yeah y'all was cool yeah we cool we ain't do to get into no situations or nothing but but you wasn't mad no no no I ain't mad one thing I had to learn over time we talked about this like over time I like matured in there I used to always tell myself when I tell young boys that come in yo if I didn't had to do every day of 20 uh 16 years in prison I wouldn't so why would I expect somebody else to do it exactly I'd have clocked out hey I don't do I don't do time with my I do I look out for my cousin or whatever but I don't do my time with him you feel what I'm saying like I don't do my time with my homies is booked I'm not they I might be somebody they could call bang we holler at each other whatever the case may be but every day all day I'm not doing it so I can't expect nobody and I didn't do it before I got booked I might look out boom boom slip my cut my man booked doing 25 to 50 you might get a letter you might get some bread but it wasn't like that's that take a very very that's not me I might be a person like all right I got you I'm gonna look out but it's hard for me to just attach my life to another life yeah you feel what I'm saying and so I can't expect anybody to do it people do do it though yeah I know yeah I I've heard stories about it now you now how long would you at FCI Ray Brook?

SPEAKER_07 58:11

I was at FCI Ray Brook like two and a half years so you got out of there quick yeah I got my I went to a low went to Allenwood low for three years wow so how many um federal uh pens you been to I've been to FCI Ray Brook Allenwood Lowe FCI McKing and then I came home from FCI I went um Yazoo Lowe in Mississippi I came home from Mississippi and was what was the worst one the worst prison worst um I would say the nuttiest prison was Allenwood Lowe that was the nuttiest job yeah I heard I heard I heard a bunch of bad uh critics on that yeah yeah Alan Willow was nutty that's a low that they tell you stay far away from Alanwood I crashed at Allenwood Lowe that's how I got to McKean yeah but Alanwood Lowe was nutty McKean I was at McKing for five years I was in one cell for five years at McKean um but it was it was it you know Alanwoodlow was the nuttiest one hey young talk to him um ask the the thing the ask about the lock in the sock thing man he you know he oh yeah I'm I'm quite sure he didn't see I got hit with a lock in the sock yeah we just talked we just talked about oh we got a first timer it hit somebody admitted to get hit with a lock in the sock let's hear about that so when I was at Allenwood it was a um riot between the blacks and the Mexicans um it was a black boy uh Ibrahim from New York African boy um he was rumbling uh Mexican boy at the yard or whatever so when we come back on the block it's like a little standoff boy named Slug from down north he sucker punched the Mexican boy when he sucker punched the Mexican boy it's just an all-out ride everybody in the hallway we all rumbling what's that the third I remember the Mexican bull had a it's it's not a lock in the sock though it's a lock on the belt the same thing yeah yeah they put the lock on the belt so I seen the bull swinging with the lock on the belt and my man so I went to push my man out the way and when I push him out the way I got hit right here in my back but I don't feel it so we still we in the mix or whatever then everybody you know the police come or whatever everybody go to their drink we go in the laundry room or whatever when we go in the laundry room my man from DC he like yo my fault rock my fault I'm like what's up he said I seen it I seen it I'm like what he like boy got you with the lock I'm like what took my shirt off that's when I started feeling it when I start feeling that drink was like boom boom boom boom boom boom like breathing on my back what was it like a lump it was I had the whole combination in my jaw damn yeah I had the whole I had the whole combination in my back so now after it's a rumble like that I know they they come and do shirt they do a um body check yeah so when they come around do the body check so now they they put in like brown shoe polish on my back trying to get it or whatever but the law came they I wound up going to the hole because I had the um was it bleeding no it wasn't bleeding it just had it was just the mark yeah throbbing yeah it had throbbing like no love it was throbbing and I ain't feeling it till I knew I got hit with it wow and how long how long was it was it sore I can't remember I went to the hole I went to the hole it probably was sore a couple days or two or whatever wow glad that you ain't land cross shit cross your nose don't you don't yeah you but let me ask you a question though this is what we usually ask everybody up here that you know either been to jail or have been to jail I'm quite sure hold on young if we do that I'm I'm sorry um we want to um Ray Ray Ray set like hold on I don't want to mess this up man just say right yeah shout out to yeah shout out to Ray babe right Ray 6810 man uh yeah member he said congrats congrats um on getting our probation this is Damon I'm proud of your uh how far y'all um can keep going bro you know so yeah shout out to you man and thanks for the donation but go ahead young yeah all right now I'm quite sure you've seen your fair share of violence in the penal system which is the Feds that we was currently in um I know you've seen your night play probably lock and sock work on dudes hot water all that you know at the time you know dudes we still getting microwaves you could still heat up a cup of 190 with all types of whatever in it to make it stick to your skin if you was in a beef with a dude this is just hypothetically speaking you was in the beef with dude you seen all these type of weapons used and you and dude arguing back and forth but y'all calm it down everybody squash it whatever he go his way you go your way it's cool it's over with unbeknownst to you he still got an issue with you you might be watching TV you know how Ray Brooke was the TV rooms and you sitting there like this lunching he's coming up behind you he absolutely got you to the bag you don't even know which one of them would you rather him use either the knife the lock and sock um the knife why yeah because the lock and sock going straight to your nag it's going straight to your head it could bust your head open yeah um the knife I mean you know you just gotta pray that you don't get hit in the artery or something yeah but you see people survive I ain't seen I ain't I never seen nobody get hit in the face with the lock in the sock I have but I can imagine a lock in the dents there yeah yeah yeah because you could you could you could get brain damage you feel I'm saying yeah bro right like you could get brain damage nah you can never be the same again yeah I'm talking about I see yeah you can never be the same I seen people get um what they hit the boy with they hit the I can't remember man on the tear man he was a good dude too from Connecticut man they hit it with something man and it was just like I I only like nobody didn't even know if boy did it was died or something man it was like it wasn't a lock in the sock but it was it was like something that they put on the belt metal or whatnot it wasn't a lock it wasn't a lock I don't know what it was at the end it was something metal that's all you know yeah and they was they was just like you know dawny I don't know what's up with boy to this day damn yeah you see violence man I wouldn't say it is violent as people say it is exactly yeah but but when violence when it's violence there it's up yeah like your feelings it's like you just like and you gotta be willing to go yeah you know I'm saying even when you ain't had nothing to do with it you ain't got nothing to do with it you sitting there in the law library and trying to find a loophole in your case to go home you ain't got nothing in the homie you ain't got nothing to do with nothing you have to be ready to go to battle at the drop of a dime because even if you you think you ain't got nothing to do with it they come it ain't no you ain't got nothing to do with it yeah that's crazy yeah it's it's nothing you it ain't no like oh you from you getting it it ain't no oh yeah he he be chilling he ain't know none of that no they no he 066 yeah go get him you've been you've been through f FCI Atlanta no I never made FCI Atlanta my transit was um canin and um Oklahoma wow I mean I hear that FCI Atlanta is bad that's very bad and it's like you know it's it's crazy what's the worst um jail you been in no transit like FCI Atlanta you talking about as far as transit yeah can't yeah you think it's worse than Canaan yeah I know it's worse than Canaan well yeah you went through Canaan see I went thanan when they had transit as the cells and I went through canan when you was all the way up on the third floor and it wasn't no locked doors and none of that was bunk big as they had three bunks in the little rooms then they had one TV room in the back that's that's when we got indicted what 2001 so y'all opened can up no can was already open I mean it's no y'all opened that up I'm talking about I'm talking about Lewisburg Canaan you be locked in all that can is tough you don't but Elena the same way yeah but Elena Give you an hour out, but it's so nasty. They give you one sock. You got a beer in the mouth. But the only thing about Atlanta that was better, you could get to go to commissary.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:11

Kane, you can't go to the commissary. You can't go to commissary. Freezing cold. Yeah. Freezing cold. You locked in the jaw. It's so cold. People pay books under the door to try to keep the air from coming in. Kane was rough. Yeah. So that was the roughest drink for me, Kane.

SPEAKER_08 1:06:27

Wow. And um what is what um what prison was you was you released to? We were released from, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:33

Yazoo City, Mississippi. Wow. Came on from Mississippi.

SPEAKER_08 1:06:36

How did you feel? No anybody get out. And how did they tell you?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:40

All right, bruh, look, all right, so my my release date was February 22nd. You remember when when they they passed the crack draw, right? Then they passed the crack drawing, then another joint had passed or something. Like it got retro. And that was on like January 18th, 2022. January 19th, they called me down. Um, they give me a media release, right? They call me down, they give me a media release, Thompson. I go in the back, the the case manager, yo, you got immediate release, go to RD. Boom, I'm walking around, ah, I'm out. They gave me a media release. You see it a million times. I go down the um RD, pack all my stuff out, people clapping me out, everything. I go down RD, I'm sitting for like three, four hours, and the next thing you know, um the CO like Thompson, I'm like, what's up? They're like, man, I don't even want to tell you. What's up? He like they made a mistake. What? I said, what? Come on. Right? So I'm like, look, man, you might as well just go ahead and send me to the hole. You only want to go back to the block. Everybody think you go home. Everybody, exactly. You embarrassed, you bag. Yeah. He like, you might as well go. Like, he like, no, they want to talk to you. I go back to the block. I gotta deal with all that. I wind up going home a month later. But that month was like two months.

SPEAKER_07 1:07:59

Yes, it was. Yeah, I can only imagine. Maybe three. So hold on, let me get it right.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:03

You was sent down to get released. And they made a mistake. Ain't sent me home. My kids, everybody. They getting ready for the plane ride, everything. Everybody think I'm coming home. I'm at the jawn. Like, I got my I got my uh sweats on. You in R D actually leave. I never leave out of RD, but I'm out of my khaki. Yeah, you yeah, you in the clothes. Yeah, I got my go-home bag. I got all my stuff. I'm thinking I'm about to go home. I never go home. I go home, they send me back to the block. I go back to the block, you know. You gave all your property away. Gave all your property away. Everybody, you know, it yeah. That joint was crazy. Then I wind up staying for like another month, but that night I couldn't sleep. But in the back of my mind, I don't know if that happened to you. I always felt like something was gonna happen. I'm not gonna make it home. I was always feeling like, yo, somebody gonna say I shot somebody or something happened. You all be thinking about all types of stuff, man. And I was just always scared that I was never gonna make it home. And then, you know, I made it home. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:09:08

Wow. Now, upon um before coming home, did you did you have an idea of what you wanted to do? Or was it just like, I'm just gonna figure it out once I go?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:16

Yeah, I kind of most likely like I had like a lot of stuff in prison. Like when I went to McCain, I started like doing programs, I was teaching programs. When you was there, they ain't had a re-entry center. We opened the re-entry center up. Yeah. So I was a re-entry coordinator there. So my role in there, like when I was doing this, homies that come, I put them through programs and get them to Fort Dicks. That was like my whole little thing. So I just like what I was doing. I was doing parenting classes up there, all these type of things. So I knew I was gonna come home and do something positive. You feel what I'm saying? So when I came home, that was my goal. I had like I had a road a book while I was in there for incarcerated parents. Um, you could still be dad for incarcerated fathers. And then I knew I was gonna come home on the path that I'm on or whatever. I just didn't know how I was gonna look.

SPEAKER_07 1:10:01

Do you think, let me ask you a question. Do you think jail was needed for you to be where you at today? Or you could have, you know, the way you was going at the time before you went to jail. Do you think jail corrected you?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:14

Yeah. It was nowhere in the world that I think I would have been alive at 43 years old without prison.

SPEAKER_07 1:10:19

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:20

I mean, it's um and I I'm not saying that people need jail to stay alive, but you can benefit from jail.

SPEAKER_07 1:10:26

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:27

You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_07 1:10:28

I like I like the way you put that. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:30

Because I don't think jail, I think the men saved me.

SPEAKER_07 1:10:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:33

You feel what I'm saying? I think being around men who genuinely cared and you genuinely respected and genuinely had knowledge and game and gave you instruction, I think that saved me more so than the CEO, so to say. You feel what I'm saying? Or because I couldn't eat this or whatever. I think being around those that the men that I was able to be around, they guided me and I was able to absorb that information and come home and just be the person, grow into the person that I was growing into. Because information builds you, whatever the information you get. Exactly. In the streets, we getting that information. You know what I mean? So whatever information you getting, that's what's gonna build you to be who you is. Exactly. You know what I'm saying? So that gave me an opportunity to be around some real men. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_08 1:11:18

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and now you're home and you you know trying to, you know, I'm assuming trying to do the right thing and you're trying to stay free, most importantly. Um, what are you doing now for yourself?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:29

So right now, um professionally, I'm the deputy chief of staff of um councilwoman Cindy Bass. Um City Council. So I work in City Hall every day. Um today we just did a spongement clinic, man. We did 150 sponges today. You feel what I'm saying? We clean people recording.

SPEAKER_07 1:11:44

Yeah, the record is clean, they can go buy guns now and all that.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:48

No. So a spongeman is like, for instance, if you got misdemeanors, you could get and a sponge dog cleaned off. But the thing about a felony, so some say for instance, you get booked with that, you get booked with a gat, or you get charged with a gap and an aggravated assault. Right. Right? You get found guilty for that aggravated assault, but you beat the gun. But that gun's still on your record. Yeah, still on your record, yeah. But the gun might be holding you back from getting a job. It might be holding you back from getting an apartment, from getting a mortgage, or getting a loan. So you could get that gun cleaned off, but you still gotta go through your apartment process with the aggravated assault.

SPEAKER_07 1:12:23

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:23

But the but you got people that got robberies and murders on their record that they beat, but it's still showing up on their joint. You feel what I'm saying? And because it's still there, it's certain in certain doors they can't get in. Right. But a sponge man will clean it off. You know what I mean? So a sponge man is needed because we got all types of stuff on our right. Exactly.

SPEAKER_07 1:12:43

You said you did about 150 of them with that.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:45

Yeah, we did the Office of Councilwoman, but Cindy Baz did a hundred with the public defender's office. And um Reform Alliance was there as well.

SPEAKER_08 1:12:51

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:52

Yeah, 150. Yeah, the day on 22nd Street, 22nd Olih.

SPEAKER_08 1:12:57

All right, man. You fight taking some calls, man. They got some questions for you out there, man. We're gonna see what's what.

SPEAKER_07 1:13:03

What's the number? What's the number, man? 215. You got it. You got it. We might not, the bill might need to be paid.

SPEAKER_08 1:13:09

What 215-312-4492?

unknown 1:13:12

215-316.

SPEAKER_08 1:13:14

My bad, y'all. 215-316-4492. That's 215-316-4492. 215-316-4492.

SPEAKER_07 1:13:24

Yeah, call up, man. Talk to uh Ken Rock, man. You know, asking questions, man, about you know, this the activities, these good things that he's doing out here in the community, man. Getting records of sponge, man. That's heavy, man. That's 150. That's a lot, man. Yeah, that's a lot.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:39

You really look at it in one day? Yeah, the day, right there on 22nd of Leo, right there in the hood. So we're gonna do them once a quarter now, partner with the public defender's office. And they doing. They got lawyers in there, they do the work. People come right through there. Get it right off of me. Yeah. This, I think, our third Aspongment Clinic that we did in our office. Man, it's so many things that we could do.

SPEAKER_08 1:14:01

Tell us from the jails we're speaking with. Don't forget, y'all, 215-316-4492. 215-316-4492.

SPEAKER_07 1:14:12

Yeah, man. Call up, man. Find out what's going on, man. Ask questions, man. We answer questions, man, whatever it may be. And I like to uh hear from a lot of women too, man. That you know, they're out there, man, they're holding brothers down inside the penal system, man. I want you to, you know, tell us the you know, the the ups and downs of what's going on in that relationship, as far as in, you know, because a lot of women they go through it out there, man. It's hard, just as well as hard on a person that's in jail. I think it may be even harder out of jail rope. Like for a woman or something. I think I think I ain't gonna say it's even harder because they not in jail, but I would say for the kids, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01 1:14:46

Right. It's a book is called Um Doing Time on the Outside. Right. You feel me? Doing time on the outside. Doing time on the outside. It talk about like the stigma of like having somebody in prison. And even the drink now, it's like um with kids, you gotta remember, like, when you if your pop book, say your pop book, some people got that situation. Like my kids had it. I had three sons while I was in, right? But and people in your neighborhood probably like, you know, give your pop credit or whatever. You want to live up to your pop standard or whatever that case may be. So that's putting pressure on you to be everything that you think your pop is, or whatever the case may be. And then, you know, you start getting in all types of situations because you think you gotta live up to the standard of what it is to be a person that's going to prison. You know what I'm saying? Then you gotta deal with the stigma, your mom or somebody. I remember my grandma said something to me, she passed away, but my grandma, that was my, that was my like, you know, my grandma or whatever. So I remember she said, um somebody asked her at the corner store how I was doing. They didn't know I was locked up, and she didn't know how to answer them because she was embarrassed. Oh, she was embarrassed. She was embarrassed to say, you know, Ken locked up. He's doing 20 years. Yeah. You feel what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_08 1:15:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:57

And it was like, dang, my grandma.

SPEAKER_08 1:16:02

Tell us the gels, we're speaking with.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:04

Hey, what's up, man? This is Jersey, man. King Riley in the chat, though. What's up with y'all?

SPEAKER_08 1:16:09

What's up with you, man? How you doing, man?

SPEAKER_05 1:16:11

I'm doing great, bro. I really just uh called a salute black, man. I I feel like we ain't hearing you that much. You know what I'm saying? We looking for you in the chat, man. Respect to the guests and everything, but man, I want to know how you feel, man. How I feel to be a free man.

SPEAKER_07 1:16:23

Oh man, it's um actually at 12 o'clock a.m. I'm all the way free. This is the last day right here, but 12 a.m. It's like a new uh a new start of life. It's like a breath of fresh air. You know, I'm not looking at because you know you could get caught up in a false sense of reality. Like some people get off probation. And I had this mindset when I was still dipping and dabbing. Like, damn, I got a chance to go to jail now without a detainer getting on me and I could pay bell. Nah, no, it's just I got my life back, man. I got my life back after I gave it away. They didn't come take my life. I I gave my life away by committing crimes and them come getting me and locking me up and giving me hellafire probation all my life. I have achieved my life back, and I'm gonna live out the rest of my days, man. It's alright, man. It's is is always nice on this side, man.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:12

I'm happy for you, man. Proud of you, man. We need you out here. I was some biggest fan, bro. I I I've seen it on Facebook one day, man. I heard your voice for some reason, and just it I just connected, bro, and I've been locked in there since. I've never done a day of prison. You know what I'm saying? But I did a little scared, you know, jail biz and shit like that, or whatever. But man, I just I salute what y'all are doing, man. Big fan.

SPEAKER_07 1:17:33

Thank you for the support, man. You stay cool out there, man. Stay tuned in. You will not be disappointed with the content coming to you at a warming rate.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:40

At a long rate, you already know. Appreciate y'all big dog.

SPEAKER_07 1:17:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:17:45

Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, uh a lot of times when when people are faced with uh tell us what jealous we speaking with.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:56

Hey yo, what's going on? It's uh this route calling in from uh from uh Northtown.

SPEAKER_08 1:18:00

What's up, man? Shout out to Northtown. What's up, man?

SPEAKER_05 1:18:03

What's up, man? So I just wanted to say, man, like I uh well congrats on Black, yo. Congrats on Black on his parole, bro. I'm a big fan of y'all show, man. Like, y'all two together, bro, is like like I'll never miss the episode, bro. Like, y'all black funny as shit, yo.

SPEAKER_08 1:18:18

Appreciate that, man.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:20

Yeah, man. I just want to say keep doing your thing, bro, and I'm always tuned in, bro.

SPEAKER_07 1:18:24

Stay tuned in, man. Stay tuned in. You will not be disappointed with the array of content that we coming to you at an alarming rate. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:32

At an alarming rate. Hey, yo, one more thing, too. Y'all got to get some merch we're at this summer at an alarming rate.

SPEAKER_08 1:18:37

We got you, man. He's on the way.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:39

Yeah. That's a bet. All right, y'all.

SPEAKER_07 1:18:41

Alright, man. Stay safe out there, man. Alright, you could.

SPEAKER_08 1:18:46

Yeah, um, what I was gonna say is uh a lot of times, um, Cottie. Tell us from the jails we speaking with. Downstairs, downstairs. Tell us from the jails.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:02

Yes, sir. This is the mind.

SPEAKER_08 1:19:04

What's up, Demond? This is Demonteller.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:07

Yeah, yes, sir.

SPEAKER_08 1:19:08

What's up, Dave? What's up, DeMontella? What's going on, man?

SPEAKER_05 1:19:10

That's the money. It's uh we want to shout out uh getting off the road. I I know he said this tomorrow.

SPEAKER_07 1:19:18

Mm-hmm. Yeah, toward 12 o'clock, 12 o'clock tonight, which is tomorrow, yeah. Man, that is the mind.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:24

Shout out, man. You know, I've I've been home since 2008, man. So I salute you, bro. I like the progress and the growth, man. Y'all keep going, bro.

SPEAKER_08 1:19:33

Thank you, man. I appreciate that, man. Appreciate that, man. Thanks, D.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:37

We're gonna get me on the show, man. I got some stuff to talk about.

SPEAKER_08 1:19:39

You come up anytime, man. You already know, you know where we at.

SPEAKER_07 1:19:42

Yes, sir. You gotta you gotta slow down, you gotta slow down with the stuttering because it might take four hours for us to get a 10-minute interview out the way. Oh, you gotta joke.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:52

Yeah, I mean, I didn't hear Speak say not on duty one time when the boy was talking.

SPEAKER_07 1:19:58

Oh, we talk with Kim Rock was talking, Kim Rock up here right there. I hear him say I hear him say none of that was crazy. He ain't saying that was crazy. Y'all seen he's kind of tired.

SPEAKER_08 1:20:10

Yeah, man, it's like this is like my my my I take medicine in the morning, it kicking around five o'clock. I don't know what's going on. I don't know what type of medicine that is.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:17

Yeah, but you think, man. You gotta do your thing, man.

SPEAKER_07 1:20:22

All right, man. Thanks for the calling, man. Stay free. Thanks, D. Now on duty. That was not on duty right there. What? Thanks for the calling. No, sir.

SPEAKER_08 1:20:30

Thanks, D. Now on duty.

SPEAKER_07 1:20:32

Oh my god, man. Ain't nobody trying to get it. But what we was just talking about before the calls just came in.

SPEAKER_08 1:20:37

But yeah, like, you know, I was I was saying, like, um, what I was going to say was a lot of times when people are get released back into society from being in jail at the certain time, like y'all guys did, you know, um the chances of being of maintaining that and not going back, you know, or or no, whether for whether it's for a short period of time or for a long period of time, is it's fairly rare. You know what I'm saying? And then people don't even don't even make it to get off parole. How long would you did you have to any any pro?

SPEAKER_01 1:21:07

I got 10 years. So I got 10 years supervised release. I'm on my um fifth year right now of my I've been home four years. I got one year nice off. Smile on the phone?

SPEAKER_08 1:21:18

Tell us from the jails. Who you speaking with?

SPEAKER_06 1:21:20

Yo, it's Laflame, man. What's up?

SPEAKER_08 1:21:23

Yo, James, what's going on, man? Where you been at, man?

SPEAKER_06 1:21:25

I've been, man, bro. I'm trying to figure out what's going on with the notifications and shit, man. I don't be getting no notifications. I just be having to set a reminder to come, you know what I'm saying, to come tune in. Oh man, that's how tapped in I am, bro.

SPEAKER_08 1:21:38

Oh man, I listen, man. I don't know what's going on, man. Uh maybe you unsubscribe by a mistake or something, man. I don't know what's going on, man.

SPEAKER_06 1:21:44

No, no, no. I'm I'm back in, I'm back in. You already know I'm still a member and all that, bro. Don't do me like that. I'm not gonna go on being up for night.

SPEAKER_07 1:21:57

I'm gonna go home and go to sleep.

SPEAKER_06 1:22:04

We're gonna go home before you walk. I'm gonna be able to be a four year one. I'm gonna even drink, but I'm gonna crack a call before you appreciate it. What's up, man? You said you tell me about the name of the minute, cracking my name with the number of duty.

SPEAKER_08 1:22:24

I ain't I didn't hear I didn't hear, man. I was a little tired a minute ago, man. I don't know if that my meds kicked it, man. Appreciate you, man.

SPEAKER_06 1:22:38

All right, but go ahead, man. Salute to black, salute to all y'all, man.

SPEAKER_07 1:22:44

Thank you, man. Stay free, man. Stay free. Tap in.

SPEAKER_06 1:22:48

You understand me?

SPEAKER_07 1:22:49

That's my guy.

SPEAKER_06 1:22:52

All right, y'all.

SPEAKER_08 1:22:53

All right, be good, bro. James the Flames. That's a day one right there. So, yeah. Um, what I was saying is like this, it's rare, it's a rarity to see somebody, you know, come home, finish the parole. Um, now you got you got 10 years to do now?

SPEAKER_01 1:23:06

Yeah, I got 10 years supervisor lease, parole.

SPEAKER_08 1:23:08

Um how far, I mean, how far are you into the into the pro?

SPEAKER_01 1:23:11

I did four years. I got one year took it off already. I'm trying to pick it some people say about 10 years.

SPEAKER_08 1:23:16

So yeah, five left.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:16

Five left, but I don't, yeah, if I don't get it off.

SPEAKER_08 1:23:19

Man, yeah, five. But you know, you it's like you got your head on straight now on duty. You got your mind straight at what you want to do. Uh it's like you you focus, so yeah, you know, you you know, it's like you like you don't go back and and um you know be back in that system. But do you see yourself going back though?

SPEAKER_01 1:23:34

No, I can't. Oh I man, I can't I don't even I I cannot see myself going back. I can't see myself being in cuffs, you know what I mean, at all. I do a lot of stuff to stay home, and I don't know like what people I think this is like something. Like I my my majority of my job when I'm not from at work is staying out the way. You know what I'm saying? Like, if for instance I'm an Eagle fan to the death, I ain't go to the parade. You feel what I'm saying? I I just don't go places where anything can happen because anything can happen. And you can get anything can happen. You feel what I'm saying? And I'm cool, like in the crib, that's my piece.

SPEAKER_08 1:24:11

Well, hopefully, you know, he getting off parole. Yeah, but you pee now, how you peel up feel about you being around somebody that's on parole, man. Yeah, I'm good. All right, I'm good. Cool, gotta make sure. Um, but yeah, you know, you you got these five years to walk off, so you got things for you focused, you know. I I didn't ask you, you know, about your your kids. You got kids, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:24:29

Yeah, four sons.

SPEAKER_08 1:24:30

Four sons? Wow, how yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:32

So my older son is 24, 19, 18, and I got a um six-month-year-old, five-month-year-old.

SPEAKER_08 1:24:37

A five oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:38

Five-month-year-old, two-year-old grandson.

SPEAKER_08 1:24:41

So you got something to be out here for. For sure. Yeah. So you ain't you you ain't uh looking to go back. And how and now these was this kid was conceived while you while you was home, or no, my uh I've only been home four years. Oh, really?

SPEAKER_01 1:24:55

Yeah, I've been home four years.

SPEAKER_08 1:24:56

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:57

My um my oldest son was five. My middle son was born that summer while I was in the county before I got indicted. And then my my younger son was born while I was booked on this one. And then my my younger son now, which I got a I forget I got a youngest son, I always call him my youngest, my third. My third son was born while I was booked. Then I just had a son five months ago.

SPEAKER_08 1:25:21

Wow. Wow. So at least you know everything is still working, man. Yeah, yeah, I'm still working. You're coming out, coming out making kids now. You know, um, you know, I don't think I asked you this either. Like, how did how did your prison stint affect them?

SPEAKER_01 1:25:36

Oh yeah, for sure. Big time. Um, it's little things that I know that, you know, when I came home, my sons, like I said, my son was five. I came home when he was 21. We had to go through maybe like a two-year period of like bumping heads with all my kids, bumping heads, getting to learn. No, dude.

SPEAKER_08 1:25:54

Go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:54

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel with black or with that.

SPEAKER_08 1:25:59

I gotta get I had to get it. I had to get I had to at least be a one in there.

SPEAKER_07 1:26:03

No, but we don't really do that in the jail. I had to nobody be doing it on the car. You you're on time out like yo, you can't hang around us today, bro. Oh, yeah. So about the time you come back around again, the not on duty will be non-existent. I had to that'll be I had to get one get it from your vocabulary. Because the men, the gangsters, them talking about the dudes that I'm like, yo, because you not you can't come around here with them kid games, man. That's really yeah, man. Come on, man. We talk about some real stuff, man. You not on duty. Not on duty, that on duty. You can pull them drawers off your shoe pocket. That's like a black. I'm like, my man will go.

SPEAKER_08 1:26:36

I had to I I I had to I had to throw one out there because everybody's playing.

SPEAKER_07 1:26:42

Not on duty.

SPEAKER_08 1:26:45

But yeah, so but you know, like a lot of times, like with kids, they've reached a certain age, and then like you said, y'all, y'all had your issues, had y'all problems, but because of, you know, you serving time, or sometimes they have some type of resentment toward you for for whatever the case may be. Um, how are you uh working to mend that relationship? What have you have you done to try to fix those, you know what I mean? Those those times when you weren't there, those, those, those areas of of uh of injury that that may have been, you know, not physical, but you know, emotional.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:12

I think with my kids, it's like um we just re-had, we had, I I did the best I could do while I was in. But what I had to learn was I had to be like real out realistic to myself.

SPEAKER_08 1:27:23

You gotta gotta cough. Tell us who the jails. Huh? All right, go ahead. What you saying?

SPEAKER_01 1:27:29

I had to be realistic with myself and like take myself back down to zero. You feel what I'm saying? And I think a lot of times people come home and you think your kids is just so excited for you to be home, which they are, but you really gotta take yourself down and build the relationship back up because it's a totally different relationship. So with my sons, I had to like learn them over, they had to learn me over. Because I came home on some like, we ain't supposed to be doing that, you ain't supposed to be doing this, this is how you do it, this is how you be a man. And they like, yo, they was raised by their mom. Yeah, like my my my my my My third son, he ain't never like wash a dish or take a trash out. He was 16.

SPEAKER_08 1:28:04

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:05

So that's crazy. You feel me? That's crazy. And now you living with me, and I'm like looking at you like you're foreign. Yeah, you walk in my trash in this jail.

SPEAKER_08 1:28:13

Yeah. And you are you already on jail mentality. That's a no-go.

SPEAKER_07 1:28:17

And it's not even jail mentality.

SPEAKER_08 1:28:19

But I'm saying, well, you know, but but sometimes I'm gonna cut you off. But the the the aspect of cleaning is a little bit more intense because you've just been around because you get up. We live together, you get on my nerves. He comes and cleaning my room and vacuuming my room. Yeah, but yeah, yeah, yeah. Drunk, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:28:37

I'm making his beard and then I go in like dude, you got wrinkles in his jump, cleaning sheets out. Yeah, like what? I got my own bead and holding up your tight. But yeah, you definitely right about it. Wiping the floor with a rag and all that.

SPEAKER_08 1:28:48

He watched floor, he watched the floor, he watched we wiped the floor on it on his on his knees. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 1:28:54

Spray the joint and hit it. Yeah, he burnt. That's Ray Brooke.

SPEAKER_08 1:28:58

He burnt out.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:59

Yeah, but that's what it was. I think right now we in our groove, though. Me and my sons. Um, I just had to find a way to be a father to him. You know what I mean? They ain't need a daddy, they needed a father, you know what I mean? So, and I had to learn how to be that. Exactly. You know what I'm saying? So I think we had a good space. My baby boy, he needs a daddy. He needs kissing and hugging and picking up and playing. And they just need somebody that can bounce ideas off of holler at them when they because they gonna they're going through what they go through. Like they're gonna be broke, they gonna mess with the broad, they're gonna do this, they're gonna make money, they're gonna blow money, they're gonna, you know what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_07 1:29:34

They gotta go through the ringer. Yeah, one thing about this, you can't tell a person about life, they gotta go through life to understand it, but you can still guide. You can still guide them for the pit for the pit holes, yeah. But life, you gotta touch that pot to be like, Damn, that joint. People ain't listening to that joint hot. No, you gotta ooh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:52

They was yeah, so now you know. Go get some ice, man. Yeah, hell yeah. Yeah, so that's how that's my situation with my kids, but the most part we in a good space, man.

SPEAKER_07 1:30:02

Right, that's good, man. That's good to be coming home after a long, lengthy sentence like you served. Yeah, and you relatively still fresh on the streets, yeah. I mean, four years ain't no time after doing 16, 17 years. You I mean, we and you you you I like to think that you usually don't catch up until you get the time in that you did. Yeah, me personally, you know. I'm saying, like, all right, but at least I'm even now until I get up.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:24

You know what I'm saying? Let me ask you this though, for you. Like, how does like what emotion, like you like with a girl and all that, you be emotionally attached to him?

SPEAKER_08 1:30:33

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:34

He he said he wanted to ask me a question.

SPEAKER_08 1:30:35

No, and I anybody can answer that. Yes.

SPEAKER_07 1:30:37

He said he wanna ask me a question. Let me answer. I'm gonna go answer. You can intervene if you feel as though I'm a lion or fly just. Yeah, you don't know. That's a yes, a super, a super yes. Yes, I'll be I'm I'm a love bug. Yeah, yeah, I got attachment problems. Yeah, like right now, and I love my woman to death. I love the ground she walk on, you know. And you be like hugging and yeah, I'm too much in public and all that. No, not in public because I still carry the penitentiary. She don't like going to supermarkets with me. Because I'm in that drawing, like you would think I'm the president. I mean, you would think she was the president and I'm security. Yeah, yeah. I'm picking down aisles, I'm grabbing her. Yo, stand right here. I'm tucking her behind me, like, yo. And she be like, yo, next time you sit in the car. And I'm like, I'm not doing it out of, it's just I'm used to being, you know, in a supermarket. That feels like the gym. Yeah, the gym. Like too much. I'm like, I want my back on the wall. You know what I'm saying? But yeah, I'm a super like, I love hard, man. I love extremely hard, man. You know, I ain't that's just it, man. I got got my person, man, and then we're gonna go ahead and do this jump.

SPEAKER_08 1:31:34

Yeah, shout out to uh MTWY Man27. Appreciate you for the donation. Yeah, um, but you know, prison, prison uh in in the trials and tribulation that you go through in prison, you know, ultimately when you get out and get and get free, though those those lessons learned behind the uh the prison wall. Because I'm pretty sure you got some good qualities from being inside there. You you might have been a stand-up man, good man from what you said. You go in there, you didn't tell, you didn't snitch or anything. So you had you already had some good things about you, but then you you go through and you understand and how to deal with men and close uh and close proximities as far as y'all being living together, all these different things, and then you learn that and you understand how to how to you know have proper man manners, not saying you didn't when you went in, but it kind of increases that being inside, and then you come home and you get back out here to the free to the to this world where people are so are so loose in in their you know in their manner, their mannerisms. How was it for you adjusting to that?

SPEAKER_01 1:32:38

Yeah, um one thing I had to learn like coming home, is like to me, it's still it's still this case, it'd be like, yo, like when I before you I fell 06, like thorough was thorough. Like it was like thorough was like the ambiance. It was like you, you, you, you wanted to be thorough. You feel what I'm saying? To now, to me, it seemed like thorough is reversed. And that's just me, to the point where I got to question myself now. If this thorough, then maybe I'm no longer thorough. You feel what I'm saying? And I just gotta be okay with that. You feel what I'm saying? And I feel like a lot of it comes in prison too, because in prison, they go on the journey I had to go on for for like maturing and all that, I had to not be thorough. You feel what I'm saying? I had to go rape McKing. I had to go to the library. I'm at the library every day, kicking it while everybody at the yard. Everybody's thorough at the yard. Exactly. I'm at the library. You feel what I'm saying? So I had to learn how to do that. I had to like, when I was on my health joint, I had to learn how to be at the table eating solid and all that while everybody eating chicken and burgers and everything else. And then like, why you eating that bit off you for a little bit? You understand what I'm saying? These are the things I had to learn inside to like be on the journey I wanted to be on. So to be on my journey out here, it's like, all right, the thorough ones may do that. I just don't do it. You feel what I'm saying? And I gotta be okay when not being thorough. If that is thorough. You understand what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_08 1:34:07

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:07

So it's like to, I hope I I answered the question you were saying. It's just different out this job.

SPEAKER_08 1:34:13

Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:14

And I just gotta let it be different.

SPEAKER_08 1:34:16

I agree. You feel me? And then not only does he what he what he say he does with his wife, he does it as far as you know the walking behind. Because I was just in the in the market with him the other day. We was in the market the other day, me and him. And I'm like, this boy, he like, yo, he walking behind me. I'm like, yo, listen, man. Like, what, like, like go everything. He actually like, he said, what with a box of noodles he went? Because he you see over there, he got he got 900 packs of noodles. I'm like, yo, they over there somewhere, man. But he just like, like, just I'd be like, this boy like a daggone bodyguard.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:49

Yeah. I kind of do it too, though, to a certain extent. I think when I'm with my family, I'm always on point. I had one time I had the notice. I was in the at a political event, right? We it's like all these politicians, all these people there, and I found myself just standing on the wall in the jaw. And I'm like, I had to, it was like a uh like an eye-opener for me, like, yo, why am I on the wall in this joint? But that's the gym. You feel what I'm saying? It's like, and it's like your body just pick up on those things. Like when it's crowded and all these things going on, you don't know who people are, you're gonna just naturally go on the wall and just pay attention. Because that's what your body, your body's just used to reacting and being in these certain spaces. I'm at a joint, it ain't nothing going on in this joint. We got sheriffs in this joint, everything like partying. Yeah, and I'm on the wall. You know what I'm saying? But it's that gel joint, it's a real joint, it's a real, it's a real situation. Yes, it is. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_08 1:35:45

We got a few more for a few more minutes, y'all. Y'all can call in 215-316-4492. That's 215-316-4492.

SPEAKER_07 1:35:53

Kai, there's any waters over there? No, there's no waters over there.

SPEAKER_08 1:35:57

That's 215-316-4492. Call in right now. We got a few a few minutes. Y'all can talk. Um, you know, to myself, uh, young and Kim Rao. Y'all can y'all can speak to us, man. Um now we we get to a place, right? Whereas though your code D's that you went down with, they home now. Yeah, everybody home. So what is everybody saying about the about the experience with like you man, we ain't going back, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:24

Or or some people like we'll say everybody like in different spaces. One code day, he went back, you know what I mean? He back home. Um and then my other code, she she's just like living her life, family, and everything else. And I just take like we all, I feel like life is about, you know, they say reasons and seasons. And sometimes when you when you mess with people, you mess with them in certain spaces and on certain times. You know what I mean? And that don't always transcend different spaces, that relationship. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, so it's just like, you know, everybody just in their own different world or whatever the case may be. But I haven't really connected with none of my code's on the tip out here, like we just kicking it. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I'm just on something totally different, you know what I mean? And and they are too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:37:12

Oh, that's what's up, man. You know, yeah, because a lot of times, you know, like some people some people do come home and go back. And I ask when I ask this question all the time. Oh, I've started asking this new question. What's the main um reason for inmates to go back? What do you think like this is the main thing that happens that make people go back?

SPEAKER_01 1:37:29

Yeah, I heard Ryan answer to that, John. My joint is a little different. I think when people don't believe they could do something different, they get habitually you get caught up in doing it. So for instance, if you go to spaces you're not comfortable in, you're like your body gonna react to that and be uncomfortable. So you're gonna go back to a space where you're comfortable at. So if you ain't got no belief that you could do anything different, then you start to do the same thing that you got confidence in doing. That's what you hear all the time in jail. I want to do the right thing, but man, shit get real. I'm gonna go back to what I know. Yeah, you're gonna always go back to what you know if you never learn nothing different. So, like this, for instance, this is something different, especially for you. You feel what I'm saying? You excelling at it, you're doing great in it. You feel what I'm saying? So you wouldn't, you could always say, I know how to do this. Exactly. You feel what I'm saying? And you're gonna learn it more and more. It's like being in the game, like being in the streets. Some people only sell dope. They want, I remember when I was selling work or whatever, and somebody wanted me to sell some dope or whatever, I wouldn't touch it. Because I wasn't, I didn't have no belief in that operation.

SPEAKER_08 1:38:38

Yeah, I was kind of the same way, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:40

You feel what I'm saying? So it's it's the same thing with your like your right of passage or your right of life. I know that I can go out there and shake an ounce or whatever and take care of my family or take care of myself. Or I know that I like the way I feel when I do it. Versus I'm gonna go to a warehouse, I'm and I, you know, I'm gonna go to a warehouse, work for 17 hours an hour, and I don't know what I'm gonna do. I I don't get the same, you know what I mean? If I don't have no belief in my capabilities on doing something, then I ain't gonna really do it. That's my thoughts.

SPEAKER_08 1:39:11

You're gonna resort back to Yeah. So you so you don't believe that women is the number one cause for people to go back or um or drugs or anything else?

SPEAKER_01 1:39:20

Well, you know, drugs is a habit, so that's a that's another ball game.

SPEAKER_08 1:39:24

Do they really take you back for having hot urines like that?

SPEAKER_01 1:39:26

Yeah, they'll book you.

SPEAKER_07 1:39:28

It'll book you. Sometimes with the feds, like because I got a bunch of dudes that they they they've been pissing dirty like six, seven of them. They they keep trying to see the uh AA and all that. Okay. They don't take you back off your first joint. Okay you gotta really like with the feds, you got to really get into you gotta be giving them joints every time you you in the AA and you still pissing dirty, yeah. And then they'll see you halfway back, halfway house, you still pissing hard and get your ass back in jail.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:52

Yeah. I was but you talking about hard drugs too. Like, ain't no beating hard, like you popping joints or whatever, like you liable to get in a situation.

SPEAKER_07 1:40:01

Yeah, ain't no beating hard drugs. Then the marijuana they might let you slide. But uh because it's them, you perks dope. Oh, yeah, that's a first-class ticket back. You out here, you're taking drugs to them that make you cause a make may make you commit a crime.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:17

Exactly, yeah. I would say a girl though, a female, I would say like it's something that a female do for you that make you go back. Like you, you ain't fulfilled, like for me, like I I love women, you know what I mean? That's only, but it's like I feel like I could at the same time, like being out here in these spaces, like going through all that time, I don't need a woman to like make me.

SPEAKER_07 1:40:42

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:42

You feel what I'm saying? Like, I gotta have a girl tonight because I don't want to be myself or something like that. You know what I mean? Or this joint bad, I'm willing to do whatever I can do to keep this girl or whatever. I don't resonate with that feeling. You feel what I'm saying? I just know like when I went back to prison, because I I went back back, I ain't never go to prison, but I went I've been getting locked up since I was 15, like I told you. I've been on supervised release since I was 15. Or probation. I always had a P.O. since I was 15. And like, like everybody else giving you, like I told you earlier, like to be off of that drink since you was what 13, 15? Like that's a real joint. You don't know what it feels like.

SPEAKER_04 1:41:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:23

To not have an overseer. You know what I'm saying? A constant babysitter. A babysitter. And you always gotta think about it, no matter what you do, even if they not, even if that PO not uh be drawn, you still gotta think about it. You know he's there. You know he's in the wings lying in the in the cuts waiting. So to not have that, like you don't know what that feeling like. I don't know what that feeling like. You feel me? So I don't know.

SPEAKER_08 1:41:48

Listen, y'all got a few more minutes, man. 215-316-4492. That's 215-316-4492 before we get up out of here. I just want to say uh something. I want to say that um that um, you know, this has been a very, very, you know, uh intriguing, intriguing day. I happy for my guy. You know, he is able to go down there and go uh get off probation. Um I didn't I think it's a little too soon, a little bit sometimes, but I just I'm I'm not gonna give me hell all the time. Yeah, I think it's a little bit too soon. I think probably at least another 90 would have probably been cool.

SPEAKER_07 1:42:22

Like 90 more days. Okay, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:42:25

90 more days, probably I'll be like, all right.

SPEAKER_07 1:42:26

They want they want to let me out when it started to get hot. They say when the heat is out, the meat is out. Down duty. Yeah, oh my god. No, I don't want to do that.

SPEAKER_08 1:42:34

Yeah, but you know, I'm I'm happy. Oh, we got a call. Tell us from the jails, who's speaking with.

SPEAKER_05 1:42:42

Hey, this is Terrence, man. What's up, Tell us?

SPEAKER_08 1:42:45

What's going on, man?

SPEAKER_05 1:42:46

I just want to thank all y'all all three of y'all man for the time. Y'all for all the information right now.

SPEAKER_08 1:42:55

Appreciate that, man. Appreciate that, man.

SPEAKER_05 1:43:05

Like wild. So you can get like a whole bunch of people. Like a while ago. I think like a couple people get arrested. I think one boy gets transported from one jail to the other. They set you in there, then they close this one contraption, and then they close the paddy wagon door, and it's like you stuck stuff in there, you like you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_08 1:43:29

Like, I think it's like a secure door, I believe, in there, because I think something happened with somebody falling out of the bag of mighty fell out one time. Oh, I don't know. I ain't never so it I think it's like a secure door, then it's then it's a paddy wagon door, I believe.

SPEAKER_07 1:43:40

Because I saw like some Yeah, they got two doors. Once they open the pandywagon doors, it's gates. Yeah, you gotta open them up.

SPEAKER_08 1:43:47

I think somebody got out of something. Something happened where somebody was able to escape, so that's probably why why they changed it.

SPEAKER_05 1:43:52

Yeah, I've seen it, man. That shit it looked like you stepped up in there. That shit right there makes me not even want to get arrested. Because if I'm closed up, I'll start panicking.

SPEAKER_08 1:44:00

Yeah, well, stay free, bro. Stay out, man.

SPEAKER_05 1:44:03

All right, man. Appreciate y'all.

SPEAKER_08 1:44:05

All right, you too as well, man. So listen, man, about to wrap this up with everybody, man. I want to say this episode of Tellsman's Gel is sponsored by TNS Media Group. Uh, we here live in power as you will say. You know, uh, we just, you know, uh had a wonderful, wonderful episode, man. I thank you for coming up here. Where can people find you at? They want to reach out to you, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:22

On Instagram is Kenneth, K-E-N-N-E-T-H. Thompson T-H-O-M-P-S-O-N underscore on Instagram.

SPEAKER_08 1:44:32

And um y'all know y'all can find us at um on Instagram at Tells from the Gels, on TikTok at Tells from the Gels, on YouTube at Tells from the Gels. You can a lot of y'all already here. Um, we thank y'all. Shout out to Dot. Thank you, Dot, man. He out of pocket, ain't he? Um, but yeah, we we uh I want to thank everybody for tuning in once again. Y'all know where to find us.