Tales From The Jails Podcast
Tales From the Jails breaks down prison life from inside of a prison facility. Tales from the Jails brings you exclusive interviews from those who have served time behind prison walls. The horrific details of what happens and or what could happen to those inside of the prison system. Stay Free..
Tales From The Jails Podcast
CARIN SEALS : TALES FROM THE JAILS LIVE !!!
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Join us for another powerful episode of Tales From the Jails LIVE as Carin Seals sits down for an unforgettable conversation about life, adversity, faith, and overcoming obstacles. This episode dives into real-life experiences, hard-earned lessons, and the truth behind surviving difficult circumstances while finding purpose beyond the struggle.
Expect authentic stories, meaningful conversations, and powerful insights that inspire growth, accountability, and hope. Whether you've experienced the justice system firsthand or simply appreciate honest, unfiltered discussions, this is an episode you don't want to miss.
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What's up, what's up, what's up, everybody? Welcome to everybody's another episode of Tells from the Jails. We're here live in Power Room as you will say. T and S media group is the team in the family. I'm Tolfik Page. Got my counterpart, Mr. Braheem Jackson. We got a special guest with us today. Tell them who you are.
SPEAKER_01I am Corinne Sills.
SPEAKER_08Corinne Sills. Where you from?
SPEAKER_01I'm from Lancaster, Pennsylvania.
SPEAKER_08Lancaster PA. She has a hell of a story to tell. You know what I mean? And listen, and in the feds, she ride with the P with the PA card where she ride with the Philly people, right? Is that true? Yeah?
SPEAKER_10Yeah, she's underneath the 066 app. I'm quite sure your last numbers was 066, weren't they?
SPEAKER_01Actually, it was 015-015.
SPEAKER_10Oh, so you got a new number.
SPEAKER_01I was out of Delaware.
SPEAKER_10Oh, so Delaware, they don't give them 06.
SPEAKER_01No, Delaware is 015.
SPEAKER_10015. Okay, but they still fall underneath if they chose to. With the men anyway.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we're still Eastern.
SPEAKER_08The Eastern District of Pennsylvania.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_08Yeah. So uh, as you know, Testman just got put in the uh disclaimer right there. What we do is we bring in you guys real stories, uh real events that happen, nothing fake, nothing fraudulent. Um, but ultimately our goal is to deter you from going to prison by bringing these these real stories, these real live events, these you know, real individuals who have served serious time for serious crimes. We do not glorify prison in any way, shape, form, or fashion. So we're here today. Also, I want to say something to you. You can speak about what you want to speak about, leave out what you want to leave out. It's up to you, okay?
SPEAKER_01Okay, sounds good.
SPEAKER_08So let's kick this off. So you are from Delaware?
SPEAKER_01I'm from no, I'm from Lancaster.
SPEAKER_08Lancaster, okay. But you got your court your case in Delaware.
SPEAKER_01Yes. I'm calling my case in Delaware, my first case in Delaware, yeah.
SPEAKER_08Okay, so um, like we'll just start off. So, you know, y'all bringing Lancaster. Lancaster, we're at Lancaster, we're thinking like, you know, like the Quaker town and you know, the people on the back of the buggies with the with the horses.
SPEAKER_01Amish.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, Amish. And well, we hear a lot of people say it's money in Lancaster. A lot of people from the city will go out there and try to get money and say it's money out there. You know how people always say they go out here to other places and they make money from, especially from Philadelphia. But um, so yeah, you know, coming up in Lancaster, how was that for you?
SPEAKER_01Coming up in Lancaster, it was everybody knows everybody, of course. It was small town. Um, we really didn't have much violence at the time, a little bit here and there, but you know, you could sleep with your doors open, everybody was friendly and it was easy going growing up.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_01Then as I got older, then I seen what you're saying. A lot of out-of-towners would come migrate to our town to make money. Um, because they can, you know, cut the price, come there, and they made a lot of money. So you had a lot of New Yorkers and you had a lot of people from Philly as well.
SPEAKER_08Okay.
SPEAKER_01Um, I mostly only knew the the New Yorkers at the time. I didn't really know people from Philly because that's who migrated around our family. Okay. Um, New Yorkers. Yeah, so they came out there to make money.
SPEAKER_08So for you coming up, like your household, uh, mother, father, single mother, single father, how was that for you? How was it? Yeah, both your parents.
SPEAKER_01No, single mother. Um, I was raised by my grandmother. Okay. At the age of 10. Uh, she passed away when I was 10. And then pretty much um I I lived with my mother. But typical, they were addicts.
SPEAKER_08Why did you live with so I'm actually why'd you live with your grandmother? Because your mother was an addict. Yes, yes, yes. What kind of drugs was she on?
SPEAKER_01Um, crack.
SPEAKER_08Okay. Like everybody else's.
SPEAKER_01Typical 80s baby. Uh so yeah, my parents were on drugs. Um, so my grandmother, she pretty much raised me until I was about 10. She passed away at when I was 10.
SPEAKER_08I'm sorry to hear that. Um, so uh your grandma passed away, then you moved back with your mom.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so my mom was like in and out. So she would be present and she'd get herself clean, and then she would relapse, and then we'd go back to my grandmother's house, and then my mom would get herself clean again. We would live with her for a little bit. So it'll go back and forth. But I wanted to stay with my grandmother. Like, I was like, I want to stay with my nanny. That's where I wanted to be, that's where I found it was home, stability, the love. Like, I just always wanted to be with my nanny. So when she passed away, um, she protected us from a lot of stuff. So when my nanny passed away, it's like I always stay like my eyes was open, like you know, Adam Eve bit the apple, and then all of a sudden, everything that was always around me, I became exposed to.
SPEAKER_02Aware of it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I was aware of it. Yeah, it was always there, but she sheltered us from it. And as soon as she passed away, it was like, whoa.
SPEAKER_10The sheets has been pulled back.
SPEAKER_08So how many siblings do you have?
SPEAKER_01I have um, it's five of us all together. And my mom.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, all live with your grandmom. All five of y'all?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, except my brother, my young um, my one brother, he did live with my dad's um mom. So yeah, my paternal grandmother.
SPEAKER_08So when I was a kid, you know, that's not about me, but when I was a kid, you know, it was four of us me, my brother, my two sisters, my grandma took us in. So all four of us live with my grandmother. Well, my mother lives on drugs, so we have a similar story. So you um ultimately coming up now, you know, living your mother, your grandmother passes away, you go back to live uh with your mom, and now your mom, she's back and forth. How was that for y'all? What was y'all doing while she was in and out of her addiction?
SPEAKER_01Well, once my grandmother passed away, she got clean. So she was so she made a choice to get clean. So she did get clean at that time um from drugs from crack at the time. She, I think she might have dipped in dab and drinking a little bit here and there. But we moved to a drug-infested street. So the street we moved to was like, yeah, just a drug-infested street. You had people on the block getting money. Um, I witnessed drive-by shootings. It was just police raids. It was just like a known street. It was called Green Street. So that was just like a major street in my town.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_01Where you knew to go to get drugs, and it was just not a good street. Like my friends couldn't even walk on the block. They would have to meet me on the corner because their parents was like, Yeah, no. I like you.
SPEAKER_10I like to call that controlled chaos when it's in one section.
SPEAKER_01It's just one section, right control chaos. One section. It's really just one block, just literally just one block right there. And we was like smacked right in the middle. So she got clean and then we moved right there.
SPEAKER_08Oh man.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_08So that was that was like a task. That's like putting him inside like a um a porno store. Like you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. You know, he he turns up.
SPEAKER_10So you got them right. But man's everywhere. Yeah, non-duties.
SPEAKER_09Yeah, non-duties everywhere as well.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, but he um, so but you, you know, um now it put your mother in a place in a in an environment. Well, you moved to a place in the environment where now it's easier for your mother to relapse.
SPEAKER_01Correct, but she was able to kind of spin it. My mom was always like a hustler, my dad was a hustler. So she she started hustling weed.
SPEAKER_08Okay.
SPEAKER_01So she started selling weed because you know, with some guys from Philly, like, hey, you're on this block, all this is going on, so make some money. And she started making money.
SPEAKER_08Wow.
SPEAKER_01So I learned, I seen the hustling from like, like I said, at 10. 10 is when I just got exposed to everything. And I just seen so much that I should not have seen at a 10 year at 10 years old.
SPEAKER_08It's crazy too, because like, you know, as a kid, when you brought up in those types of environments, you have no, you know, no choice but to understand and learn things. Like I said, when I was a kid living, you know, on I was living on a drug block, I knew all the drug dealers. I knew where they hit the, I knew where they hit the drugs, I knew where the cops was coming from. This is me as a small kid from just ride my bike up and down Brooklyn Street. I'm riding my bike, and I'm I'm a little kid, so I started to see everything. I knew everything about how to block work. I knew who I knew who was running, I knew everything. So I understand what you're saying in regards to that. So for you, you moved to the block, and at what age did you start to turn to a life of crime, or or this was later on in your life?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it was later on because I still stayed active in uh track. I loved school still, so I still stayed active. So the streets didn't kind of get me, but I learned loyalty at that age. Like my mom, my dad was into gambling and hustling, so I learned how to gamble at 10 years old. I'm playing Pity Pack, looking for uh quarters in the in the couch to go down the street to go pay some um play some Pity Pat. Uh yeah, so I just witnessed so much. Um, my dad still says to this day, he was like, I um I remember a story where my dad had an actual money order machine, like from the corner store, and he was down there like taking money orders and turning like, say, like a ten dollar money order into like a thousand dollars, and then finding people to go cash the money orders. Like, uh, and he was like, You still remember that? I'm like, Yes, very vivid. I remember the money order machine in the basement and you show me what you was doing.
SPEAKER_08Let me ask you a question too. So you a lot of times, I'm gonna ask you this because this happens. You raised around drug dealing and drug dealers. Were you attracted to drug dealers coming up as a teenager into a younger dent? Was that something you somebody was attracted to?
SPEAKER_01I think I was attracted to fast money.
SPEAKER_08Okay.
SPEAKER_01I didn't really identify like fast money came from a drug dealer. Okay, I was just attracted to fast money.
SPEAKER_08So if it was a guy who was getting fast money, he was like, Oh, I like him.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, because that's all I knew. Like my dad, my mom, like all I knew was fast money. Like I didn't know them to work, I just always knew them to get money.
SPEAKER_08Now he was getting kind of like fast money. Would he be considered to be attractive to you?
SPEAKER_01Like if you was like to make well listening to him, he seemed like he was a trick, so yeah.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, yeah, he is. It was a good time with him. Yeah, he uh he'll come back and uh the pack money stay left over him. So you um now you were uh you know, young teenager coming up. You still just living your life. Was you attracted to fast money as a teenager or up until young?
SPEAKER_01So no, I still was like in school. I still was like the good girl going to school, playing sports. Like I still always had like a goal. I seen my I seen life outside of my town. Like I always knew I wanted to go to college, always knew that I wanted something more. And I just kind of like pushed, motivated myself. Um, my uncle, he he went to college and stuff like that. So he always said, like, you're going to college, like you're getting out of here. And he kind of exposed us to college life and took us to his um college and took us like he was living in Baltimore, would take us to Baltimore. So he kind of exposed us a little bit to life outside of Lancaster. I always knew that I wanted to get out. I didn't know how at the time, but I knew I was getting out.
SPEAKER_08Aside for when was the first time you came to Philadelphia?
SPEAKER_01How was your first visit to the first time that I came to Philadelphia that I remember was uh about 16, 17, I was a bit about 12th grade. And we drove down here. We used to come down here and uh go to the freakniks. They had the freaking fest. Yeah, yeah. We used to go to the Greek Fest, we just go to South Street. We used to go to um Delaware Ave. They had um Broad Street. I mean, it's yeah, they had like the 18 to get in, 21 to drink on uh Delaware Ave. What was that called? Uh Some of the P. But we used to go there and hang out.
SPEAKER_08So we used to go to Palmer Palmer's, yeah.
SPEAKER_01So we used to go to Palmer's. It was one was the outside. I don't know if they had a pool out there, but it was on Delaware Ave. So we used to come out here all the time to go um collect.
SPEAKER_08You still take take people to Palmers, too?
SPEAKER_01Palmers are still open?
SPEAKER_08Nah, this man's he's talking about some Palmers is still open. If he gets mad, like he we call Palmers, he might slap somebody in the Palmer He still take people to Palmers every now and then. He has an anger issue, as you can see.
SPEAKER_01So he's real mild right now.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, he's gonna turn turn up in a minute. So you got um, so now you know you you go to college? You went to college?
SPEAKER_01I went to college, yes.
SPEAKER_08What college do you go to?
SPEAKER_01Uh I went to Lincoln.
SPEAKER_08Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_01Lincoln, Lincoln University. Um graduated? I graduated, yeah, four years. Oh one, oh five, so how was college for you?
SPEAKER_08How was that? Like, was that like, you know, was it fun college or were you out there getting drunk, going to the parties, passed out on the lawn, all that type of stuff?
SPEAKER_01No, no, no, no.
SPEAKER_08It was a good girl.
SPEAKER_01I wouldn't say I was a good girl, but I I had fun. Like, I have fun. So coming from um, coming from a small town hitting Philadelphia, I mean hitting Lincoln, it was like wow, because you got all these people from like Philly and New York and Baltimore. So it was like uh, I wouldn't say it was a culture shock.
SPEAKER_10It's a mixing pot.
SPEAKER_01But yeah, it was like wow, and like coming from like a small town, you was like, oh wow. And then I was, you know, young. I you know, I was blessed to have, you know, a nice figure. And so it was like a lot of attention that I wasn't used to. So yeah.
SPEAKER_08It was on your line, basically.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it was it was I didn't know how to take all that. I really didn't. I didn't really know what I had at the time.
SPEAKER_08But you know everybody coming at you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, they just coming at me just to want to have sex.
SPEAKER_08I mean, that's that's that's normal.
SPEAKER_01I mean, you're in college, so that's really all.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, high school kid. I mean, I used coming out of high school, you're gonna you're in college, and you got freedom. Your mom's not there, nobody, your dad's there, just a bunch of kids living a bunch of um amongst kids. Because when I was a um graduated out of high school, I didn't go to college, but I would like frequent like you know, IUP, uh Lincoln. I used to go to the parties, I used to go out there to the parties and stuff like that. Yeah. And, you know, college, you know, going wild, right, young? What? Yeah, college be is wild. College is wild. Oh, college is definitely wild.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but it was fun. Like, I met um some longtime friends. Um, they're still my friends to this day. I have some great um, it's like a family coming, going to like a small HBCU, you become a family. I can say that. So every time you go to homecoming, every time you go with her, it's always love. Like, it's always love. And what college was you at? Lincoln? Lincoln.
SPEAKER_10Lincoln University.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so it's always love.
SPEAKER_10My girlfriend went there.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_10Girl that left me and had babies on me. Yep.
SPEAKER_01Did she leave for someone that she met at Lincoln? She might know.
SPEAKER_10She might she might know her. She did. She definitely did. She left me for someone.
SPEAKER_01She went anytime between 2000 and 05. I wouldn't know her.
SPEAKER_10Because everybody kind of knew everybody. 2000 and 05?
SPEAKER_01No, between 2000 and 05.
SPEAKER_10No, you was uh because I graduated. From 2000 to 05.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_10Yeah, she was going there then. She was attending. No, you was home. Yeah, but you're talking about I ain't come home in 2001. You got indicted though, right? But she said that she was going anywhere from 2000 to 05. She was going there then.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, but what I'm saying, what I'm saying to you is my question to you is, was the time when she got pregnant before 2001? Because I had to happen before you before you even went to jail when she's because she told you that.
SPEAKER_10Yeah, I came home in 2001. Okay. All right. That's why I say from 2000 to 2005, when she just said she was there. Okay. I come home 2001. I come home, she already had a baby already. She was pregnant with the second one. So she definitely done went through a whole everything. Yeah, she was tired. Sitting out there in Lincoln College with a baby father. They together, they're good now, though. Oh, they're still together? Okay. Well, not together, but you know, they they cord you and they do good co-parent. How do you feel about that? Oh, that's good. Okay, yeah, that's good. That's good.
SPEAKER_08No, no, I was mad back then. I ain't know no better. Okay, so let's let's get back to your story. So um, so you are you in college now. You graduate?
SPEAKER_01Yes, I graduated five.
SPEAKER_08Who was your uh what was your uh your master? I'm sorry, what was your uh your uh major major uh degree in accounting? Accounting. Okay. So that means we go into the banky, banky, bank. So you graduate college, um, big celebration, you get out of college now. What was your what was your first your first job?
SPEAKER_01My first job was um uh bank, but I didn't work at like at a bank as a teller. So I worked in the back office.
SPEAKER_08So you was counting the money and stuff like that?
SPEAKER_01No, it was all like wires and stuff. We didn't deal with actual money, it was all just like wires. We dealt with wires, we dealt with corporations and stuff like that, like not no actual um like individual people.
SPEAKER_08What's the most what's the most amount of money you've seen in the bank?
SPEAKER_01Like I said, we dealt with wires, so we're sending like billion dollar wires. Okay, yeah, so we're dealing with like companies, corporations like digital money, yeah, corporations. You see a number on the screen, investors and trading. So you got the people in New York that's gonna close the deal. So after they close the deal, then we kind of manage it. So um you kind of sell, so I worked for the bank, and this bank pretty much closed the deal with the loans, and then they take their piece and sell it off to different investors. So if they close on a $1.2 billion loan, they're gonna sell that off to probably 500 investors and kind of make their money off like that.
SPEAKER_08Let's get to your life of crimes. Let's get to that. That's what people want to know. We got we gotta give them your backstory and let's get to this. So because they did talk about some.
SPEAKER_10She graduated, she worked good, she did nothing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, like that's what that's what, yeah, that's the that's what everyone thought. Like, not Kareem, because I was like I said, I I made it out. I went to college, I was educated, and then it's like, how did I end up in federal prison?
SPEAKER_08So let's get to that. So you're working in the bank, and and so when did when did this this life of crime start for you? And how did how how did you get introduced to this?
SPEAKER_01Um, like I said, it was always around me. But my thing is I made it out, but I didn't know how to separate. I didn't know how to separate um everyone from back home and me moving forward with my life. I never wanted no one to think that I was better than them. And I, you know, just because I went to college and I graduated, I couldn't come back home and still be on the block. So I didn't know how to separate the two. So when I um went off to college, I moved to Delaware. I was working in Delaware and I was still going home every weekend. I was still partying every day, then going to work. And then I met a guy at transit. Matter of fact, out here, two dollar Tuesdays at the Transit. Club Transit, okay. Yes.
SPEAKER_08He's been dancing and stuff in the club of club.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I met, I met, I met a guy, and then um We connected and then I was pretty much just betting him about my job. Like how this job is just so crazy and stressful. And you can probably send money to West Bubba and nobody know. I'm just talking.
SPEAKER_08You just threw it out there.
SPEAKER_01I'm just throwing it out there, but I'm just betting, I'm just talking.
SPEAKER_08And Tana was like, what?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So the whole time he was plotting, whole time he was plotting. So he asked me to wire him some money. And I said, No, I'm not wiring you no money. Like, no, I like my job. And then it went from that to one day I got my uh review back and it wasn't that great. And then I kind of got upset, and then I was like to him, Well, send me your wire instructions, and I sent like ten thousand dollars.
SPEAKER_08And they didn't even notice it.
SPEAKER_01No, no, because it was it was recycled money. So it was money that was out there on the cash rack that needed to be reconciled, but nobody reconciled. So then I was able to kind of just send it right back out. But no one was looking for it. Like I said, I didn't deal with personal accounts, we dealt with corporations. So no one's really yeah, so no one's looking for the money. And it's not coming out of anyone's personal account, so they're not looking for the money.
SPEAKER_08And then if they do look for it, is get to their account in and so forth. That could be like a year, a year down the line where they would probably probably actually recognize it with their account firm or whoever that's uh doing their books. The audit.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, probably audit. But like I said, it was like money just out there that just was just needed to be reconciled. Somebody needed to kind of match the debit with the credit, the money that went out, the money that came in, someone needed to reconcile it. But because it wasn't reconciled, it was just sitting out there. So I was able to take it and just resend it back out.
SPEAKER_10Wow. Just that easy. Would he called you later on the day and was like, yeah, that joint got it. Mm-hmm. Was it a cut for you?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we just split it down the middle.
SPEAKER_10Yeah, I'd have given his ass goddamn. You take this two bucks, and I'm gonna go ahead and take this eight-ball Jamal. He'd have been cool with that. He'd have been cool with that.
SPEAKER_01No, we split it down in the middle of a different way. You would spare. You would spare your crab spray. Yeah.
SPEAKER_08Okay.
SPEAKER_01All right, so in the beginning.
SPEAKER_08So that first 10 go wham. So now you like, hold up. Were you scared a little bit? Like nervous or something?
SPEAKER_01Definitely scared.
SPEAKER_10Like days that go you coming in to work, like, damn, it's day.
SPEAKER_01Yes. I was petrified because it wasn't me. Like, I I'm just big on loyalty, and I know my co-workers trust me. And then it was just like, oh man, I just like, I just I felt like I just threw everything away that I worked so hard for. And I was like, it's only a matter of time that you get caught. Yeah. How do you come?
SPEAKER_08How you coming to work the next day after sending how you walk in the building the next day. Just describe that. Because you know, sometimes you get away with something, then the next day you walking, you're looking around. How how was your uh how are you feeling about the next day of work after sending that first?
SPEAKER_01I can't remember, but I showed up. I went to work. I just act like everything was okay. I guess in my mind, I felt like they weren't gonna catch it because I was able to go on the back end and clean it up. And like, so at that time, if you created the wire, you sent the money out and then you reconciled. So there really was no no one in in the middle that kind that could catch it. So I just was like, okay.
SPEAKER_08Do you think it was I'm gonna ask you this question? Do you think it was anybody else in the job that was doing the same thing you were doing?
SPEAKER_01No.
SPEAKER_08Okay.
SPEAKER_01I don't think so.
SPEAKER_08All right. So you you you wire the next, so you wired 10,000, and then what was the next wire you sent?
SPEAKER_01I sent another 10.
SPEAKER_08But how long was it?
SPEAKER_01I probably waited about two weeks later.
SPEAKER_10You wanted to wait and see if anything nothing came up in two weeks. Nothing came up in two weeks. Is he asking you like, yo?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. He was like, so let's like do it again. So I was like, okay, like that one through, send another 10. So I sent another 10. Um, and then when I sent the other ten to teller when he went to the bank to get the money out, they kind of do a red flag. She was like, Yeah, no, you never got this kind of money. And you're trying to tell me you got two wires back to back, $20,000. Like, yeah, no. So she put the red flag on the account.
SPEAKER_08Oh, wow.
SPEAKER_01And kicked the money back. Well, I didn't know what she was doing, what was gonna happen. So that's when I got nervous and scared.
SPEAKER_10Okay. So the so the 20 never did the second 10 never made it to me.
SPEAKER_01No, it made it to the account, but the lady kind of did a red flag, like, where's this coming from? She kind of was like, Yeah, no.
SPEAKER_10So would you just start chilling at the day? Like, who?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so after that happened, that's when I got nervous and anxiety, and I was just like stressed out. I was like, oh man, like it's I'm about to go to jail. Like, I was really scared then. Yeah, you would think I would stop. But uh so then we came up with a plan that we had to find somebody who had a business account.
SPEAKER_10Alright, so you weren't gonna send it to him no more.
SPEAKER_01No, we couldn't send it to personal account. So we was like, okay, we're gonna send it to business accounts.
SPEAKER_08Who came up with this idea? You or him?
SPEAKER_01Um I said something like we need a business account. He's like, Oh, I know somebody who has a business account. So it's pretty much like that.
SPEAKER_10Let me ask you, cut. I want to cut and rule first. I want you to be completely unadulterated, honest. Do you think without him you would have ever been doing that? Do you think he was coercing you?
SPEAKER_01Oh, absolutely. I never would have done that. Like, it never even crossed my mind, like, to wire money. Like it would never cross my mind. I really enjoyed my job. It was my first job out of college. You know, at that time, I'm fresh out. We're making I'm making 40 something thousand a year, no kids, no nothing. Like, I'm good. Like, I never once thought about it. And I even said to my roommate, I was like, telling her about it. I was like, Yeah, but that's crazy. I can't believe he asked me. Like, it never crossed my mind.
SPEAKER_10But it's stable. Once he planted that seed, it grew.
SPEAKER_01It grew, and then just immature. I was just very immature. And then once I got a bad review because of something I did, and now I want to say, Oh, I'm gonna retaliate retaliate and go send money. Like, I'm getting them back because I got a bad review. Oh, I'm gonna send money and wire money.
SPEAKER_10Right.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_10So y'all come up with a plan.
SPEAKER_01So we come up with a plan, and the plan was to get business account. A business account. So we had his friend who got a business account. We never met though.
SPEAKER_10How long was it after they red flagged the second 10,000 you tried to?
SPEAKER_01Um, two months, I would say.
SPEAKER_10So you was chilling. Oh, you went back into our relationship. So it was about two months.
SPEAKER_01That was like around Christmas time, December, and then about February is when That's when you try to do the business account, Joel. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_10And I know it's gonna be more than 10,000 this time around.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah. So now we got business accounts. So when we come up with this plan, we never met. So the thing was I never supposed to meet the guy with the business account, and he wasn't never supposed to beat me, me, me. We were supposed to just have the person in the middle.
SPEAKER_10Which is the dude.
SPEAKER_01Which is the dude that, yeah, like that I was dealing with at the end of the day. Yeah, so he was the middleman, and that's when things start getting crazy.
SPEAKER_08Like what? Explain.
SPEAKER_01So money starts going out. So we're sending like 100,000, 200,000, 300,000. Like we're sending out big money.
SPEAKER_10You send it out 300,000 and it's gone.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we're sending out I'm sending out a hundred thousand, and then I'm sending out like two hundred thousand at one time. How far apart? So I'm sending it out. So the way it was set up is like so you investors pay like pay interest on a loan, maybe um, principal interest every like uh month or so. So I was sending it out maybe like at quarter end, because usually that's when like a lot of money went out, like at the end of the quarter.
SPEAKER_10Um, so uh you weren't scared, just not to cut with that one when you was putting 100,000 or that made my heart started beating a little bit like 200,000 right there, man.
SPEAKER_01No, let me tell you when I got scared. I got scared when I sent two million. I sent I sent two million dollars, and that's when I was like, yeah, I'm gonna go over my head. Yeah.
SPEAKER_10The money landed?
SPEAKER_01Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_08How much ho, how much did you get out of this year?
SPEAKER_10So if he told us some whole thing.
SPEAKER_01No, so okay, so go back. So let's go back. So we send out one, two, three. We're sending out the money. So we're supposed to do a three-way.
SPEAKER_08How often is it because how often though, how far apart would you spend your CC?
SPEAKER_01Oh man, this only went from February to June.
SPEAKER_08Okay.
SPEAKER_01By by June, nah, I'm lying. This only went for like uh It was quick. It it really only lasts like three months. Yeah, so from like to June. I was done by June.
SPEAKER_08Okay.
SPEAKER_01By June, I was done. So it was supposed to be a three-way split, but then I'm not getting my money.
SPEAKER_10Wow.
SPEAKER_01So I'm getting pennies on a dollar.
SPEAKER_10So I'm not so it'd be a time or money land, and they got a time to give you your cut. And you wouldn't receive it. I wouldn't send a motherfucking thing after that nigga.
SPEAKER_01I wasn't getting my money. I was getting like pennies on a dollar. So when I say pennies on a dollar, if I'm sending off $100,000, we're giving him a little more because he's gonna have to pay interest, like he's gonna have to pay tax on his account. So we knew he was gonna get more of it when a split came. The line shit. Right. So if I'm if I'm sending like a hundred thousand and say we're getting 3030, he might give me 10.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Oh, he couldn't put and he'd tell me, oh, he couldn't pull the rest of the money out. You gotta wait till next week to get the other two. Okay, well, what's up next week? But by then, more money hit. So now we just forgot about that one. Yeah, so now I gotta keep getting money. So now it's becoming personal because like you're thinking because me and you are dealing with each other, like you can play with my money, but no, don't play with my money. Like, no, no, yeah, give me my money, yeah. So he thought that he can still like kind of play with me, like, okay, she's getting money. I'm gonna give her what I give her, and then I'm still dealing with her, so she ain't gonna say nothing. Oh no, yes, I am. So at that point, um, I'm at work one day and I'm calling and he's not picking up the phone. So I was like, okay, anything could be happening, like, and you're not picking up. And he was like, Oh, I was at the casino gambling, I couldn't pick up my phone. But I don't know. At that time, I just like it's too many games. I kind of X'd him out. So this is where it got like tricky because I knew where the guy worked, where his business was, and I just went over there and I popped up.
SPEAKER_10And you wanted to, you you cut the middle man fuck out. Like, listen, we 50-50 from here on out.
SPEAKER_01And I walked in there and I was like, How you introduce yourself?
SPEAKER_10Like, you gotta give us this whole story.
SPEAKER_01I couldn't believe, like, I did it. I don't know where the confidence came from, but I was like by myself. I went, it was like Germantown somewhere in Philly. I didn't know what he looked like, I didn't know anything. I just knew where the shot was, where the business was. So I rolled up in the business and I was like, Is X, Y, and Z. I asked if he was in there. And then I seen the one guy. The one guy looked at him. So I was like, Oh, I knew who he is was. Now I knew who he was because someone looked in that direction. But no one that kept saying he's not here. I said, okay, and I just left. But then when I got outside, he ran behind me and he was like, Like, who are you? And I was like, I'm the person on the other side. And he was like, We never were supposed to meet. I was like, Yeah, I know.
SPEAKER_08Dang.
SPEAKER_01And he was like, Take a ride with me.
SPEAKER_08It's it's black guy, okay.
SPEAKER_01And he took a ride, we took a ride, and he was like, I gave him money. But when I tell you that man made everything right, he met me. He gave me everything that was owed to me. And he's he made it. I just bet he did. Yeah, he made it right.
SPEAKER_10I just bet the hell he did. I'd have made it right double time.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's what you said. He's like, What? He was supposed to be doing all this. Took me to the mall, got me a Louis bag. He did me good. Like, he made sure I was straight.
SPEAKER_08Y'all start dealing with each other like that? No. Okay.
SPEAKER_01And he never crossed the line. Me and him never crossed the line. It was always business. It was, but I didn't know him. I still didn't trust him. I just I didn't know him.
SPEAKER_10But not start my question is not start dealing with him as a relationship with Torfidas, but but did you start dealing with him as man? We will do business, he out of it.
SPEAKER_01Yes. And that's when we came up with the plan where I sent the two million, and that was just between me and him.
SPEAKER_10That land, yeah.
SPEAKER_01It landed in his account.
SPEAKER_10Yes, it landed. You keep talking about some hold on, nigga. You keep talking about hold on. Yeah, ain't no hold on, nigga. They still doing that down there. No, no, don't do, don't do that. Don't do that.
SPEAKER_01But God no, I implemented so many different things now. No.
SPEAKER_08So the guy who got cut out, how did he feel about that?
SPEAKER_01Well, at that time he was cocky. So he just felt like whatever. He didn't think that he didn't know that I went over there, that I met him, that we continue to do business. He didn't know.
SPEAKER_10Oh, he didn't know nothing.
SPEAKER_08So what did you tell him? He's just thinking he.
SPEAKER_01Nothing. We're done. Like we don't even communicate no more.
SPEAKER_08So he he ain't wanted, he ain't actually sent him no more money or nothing.
SPEAKER_01Nope. It was done.
SPEAKER_08Like, the other guy never, the other guy never told him nothing either. Nope. Wow.
SPEAKER_01Nope. So we we asked it out. Um I sent the last wire.
SPEAKER_10How much he gave you over there?
SPEAKER_01So we we did a split. Well, we was doing a split. So a million, a million. But I ended up getting, like I said, I just didn't trust him. He gave ended up giving me 800. So I don't know. I got 800,000. But what happened was he gave me, he um gave me this is when um is it commerce bank at the time that was open? I think it was Commerce Bank that used to say he gave me a debit card with $300,000 on it. And at the time, you're gonna have like $100,000 max per account that they insure. So he gave me a card with, he gave me two debit cards. One had $200,000 and one had $100,000.
SPEAKER_08Wow.
SPEAKER_01And then every think two weeks, he was sending me like $2,000. But I was just overwhelmed. I gave, I I really like was like, I was just overwhelmed. It was just so much, like that money just brought so much stuff.
SPEAKER_10So what you was doing was just giving it out to friends and family members. Did it lead to other things? Because you know, like I like to say money, but my brother always took, and he right about that. Money brings out who you really are. Like, I like, you know, during my spare time, I I got my faults. I might take me a little sip of drink, you know, and he hates it. And I ain't talking about alcohol. And he be like, man, how you gonna handle that? Cause you drinking on this level right now, and you really ain't got no money. Imagine if you get a big check. And I might be, and he's right. Like, did it did it cause you to do things that you wouldn't usually do without the money?
SPEAKER_01No, I just stayed home.
SPEAKER_10As far as drugs or going on.
SPEAKER_01Oh, gambling. Oh man, I took my gambling to another level. It turned me out gambling-wise, I was a real bad gambler. I've been going to Vegas, I'm going to Atlantic City, like I'm stuck. Because I was a gambler. Like, I wasn't a big shopper. You know, of course I went shopping and did those things, but you know, I was just young and dumb. Like, I wish I had the mentality, like are people around me in my home. I was like 23, 22, 23. I was young. Yeah.
SPEAKER_08And what year was this?
SPEAKER_01This was um 2007.
SPEAKER_08Wow.
SPEAKER_012007. So I wish I had people around me that say, hey, let's invest this, let's do this, let's do that.
SPEAKER_08Can I ask you a question? Why you ain't just um 22, 23 years old for you. No, or did you ever think about because I can't say why because it's over, but did you ever think about just pulling up all the money out of the account?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so that's what I'm saying. So I I end up like, I think I bought a house, you know, I just, you know, giving money to weigh to everyone. And then um I uh he said to me, Um, give me names because he wanted to move the money because the money's set in the account, but once again, I don't trust him. I don't know if this is accurate. But he's like, give me names so I can get this money out the account for you. And I just was like, whatever. I kind of like gave up on it after a while. I think I we I had a 300,000 spending that he's giving me money every like couple weeks on the money, and um, I was like, just kept pushing it to the side because that by that time now I'm caught up in I'm back home and I'm caught up now in the drug game.
SPEAKER_10So what you mean caught up in the drug game?
SPEAKER_01So at that time, so I moved to Philly. Um, when all this was going on, I was living in Philly, and then my mom was like, you need to come home. Because nobody knew what was going on in my family. They thought I had like a lawsuit that I won that I had open in Lancaster with the police in my town. So nobody knew what was going on. Like nobody knew. They just thought, oh, she got money, she got the lawsuit. Nobody knew that I was sick. Nobody knew. So, you know, secrets make you sick. So I'm just like kind of just going through just life, just burying myself in unhealthy relationships, just kind of just trying to not.
SPEAKER_10You was hitting their hand, don't you say he ain't a lot?
SPEAKER_01Not really because, like, um she liked the hustlers, you said. Yeah, so not really. Like the one, the one guy who I was dealing with at the time was like my my first love growing up, we was young. So I ended up reconnecting with him.
SPEAKER_10And then Oh, he got his hand hit. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01But then I had to go because he wasn't doing nothing. He was like stuck in the pressing, blowing the money. He wasn't doing anything. So I got it out that situation because at the end of the day, like we're supposed to be progressive, like, yeah. So and he was just yeah, so the money turned him to a monster, yeah, yeah. And he was getting high, and I I called him getting high one time. I was like, Oh, yeah, I'm out of here. Um, coke. He did coke. So I walked in, yeah. And so it kind of like was it crack or coke? No, it's not crack, it was coke. Okay, but that just turned me off because we want what our parents went through. So it's like after I seen that, I was like, I'm out because I couldn't, it was just gonna bring us down, you know. So I just had to go. So I gave him like um, I gave him 10,000 and I left. Um, I just left the situation, left the relationship. But I didn't want to leave him messed up because at that time we living on um the presidential right behind uh Fridays. It's a little expensive at the time. Yeah, so right. So I made sure I paid the rent up and then gave him like 10 sacks and then I left, you know. And then my mom's like, you need to come back home because it was just taking a toll on me. So I moved back home and um to Lancaster and bought a house and stuff, and then then I start dealing with get caught up in like back home.
SPEAKER_08Okay, situations. That's I just want to rewind a little bit. So you said, all right, you said 100,000, 100,000. What made you send two million? What was it that in your mind that said I'm gonna send two million dollars?
SPEAKER_01So I seen it out there on the cash rack, and I seen it was sitting out there for years. So this two million was just was sitting there, nobody never touched it, nobody reconciled it, it was just sitting there. And uh we were just having conversation, and he was just like, um, we were just having conversation, and I was just like, Well, what could you hold? What do you think your account can hold? And he was like, whatever. And I was like, because I see this two million just sitting out there. He probably two million dollars probably he probably was like, What? I know. I couldn't believe it. Like when I did it, I was like, oh my god, like it's over for me. Like, like I am just like a I'm just like a like a I have a good heart, and I just really it's it's such a contradiction because it's like I'm like, I know I'm about to go down, but I'm already in it. So F it like type of situation. But I was just I just knew that I was gonna get caught.
SPEAKER_08Did you quit after that or no?
SPEAKER_01I did, yeah, oh yeah, I quit. So um I ended up dealing with these guys out of Atlanta, and um, so I had sent them some money out in Atlanta, but they never get caught up or nothing like that. So we just did one transaction with them. How much? Um with them, I think I sent I sent about like 300 something thousand to them. Wow, yeah, because I think they gave me 50. I think I think I ended up just getting 50 off of that. I was like, just give me 50, whatever. You know, because I was like the type of person that I just wanted everybody to win.
SPEAKER_10Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So I just was like, just give me 50. At that time, I wasn't tripping. So I just was like, okay, I send that homeboy out there. I was like, thought that was gonna help him get on his feet and just whatever.
SPEAKER_02Dang.
SPEAKER_01And then um, yeah, and then I just was done. I left the job and I was done. But here, I guess money still was coming going out when after I left, but I didn't know anything about it. But I guess I didn't go back and like change the wire instructions. So when the money, like when they sent out their the money after I left, the money went to their accounts. But I didn't know anything about that.
SPEAKER_08So still he still was getting hit.
SPEAKER_01Atlanta people, they still was getting money even after I left.
SPEAKER_08Wow, how much did they get?
SPEAKER_01I think it was the wire was like for another 300 something thousand. But I they never told me about it, and I didn't know until the indictment came and then I seen it. I was like, Oh, I wasn't there no more. And I ended up resigning, leaving a job, and then it was a year later that they they contacted me.
SPEAKER_08Let's get back to I want I just want to talk about the money. So when a $2 million hit his account and you quit the same day you sent it, or no, no, no, no, no.
SPEAKER_01I stayed, um, gave my notice and two-week notice.
SPEAKER_08Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01And I stayed the entire time.
SPEAKER_08And now he got the two million. You know that you bought it. Now, did he already give you your cut while you were still working there, or you still was waiting to get your cut?
SPEAKER_01No, no. He gave it right away and gave it to me. He was asking me, like, how did I want it? And at the time, I told him, give me a debit card because I got robbed.
SPEAKER_08What you mean?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so um I came home one day and my house was ramsacked and I got robbed for fifty thousand dollars cold cash.
SPEAKER_08That was somebody who knew you. You found out who did it?
SPEAKER_01I didn't find out, but I always I have a I I have a great idea who it was. Some women or the person who did it, huh?
SPEAKER_10Some women or some niggas.
SPEAKER_01Some dude like close, like like family in a sense. Family. It was family. Because I put like 20,000 in this person's hand. And then they came back and got me for the 30. So that's why I say 50, because I I know the person got me. Mind you, I gave them 20,000. So you it was nothing for you to get the other 30. Yeah. But you came and staged it and ramsacked. And I know it was the person because at the time I had the money in a shoebox, and that's they only them knew that the money was in there because they seen it. And then he made a comment, like, damn, niggas hustle all year for this, and you got to sit right here in the shoebox, like nothing.
SPEAKER_10Yeah, that right there let you know he was on his way.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. So he came back and um he got me. He got me.
SPEAKER_08When you was at work when you when he got in there?
SPEAKER_01And he was calling me, he was talking to me on the phone the whole time I was at work. Yeah, and making sure my roommates weren't there, because I had two roommates. And that's another reason why I know it was him, because my roommate at the time, she didn't move in, and that room was the door was closed, and they never even touched that room. Because at the time he didn't know that anyone, no one even lived in there. But someone had moved in there from the last time he was there.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_01So that room was never touched, and only the you know, the two rooms was touched. And I always felt like, yeah, I just thought it. So then it just was like I was just like, this is too much for me. So once I got robbed, I was like, I didn't want cash.
SPEAKER_08Make sure y'all hit that like button. Button, man. Hit that like button, man. If y'all like what y'all hear, hit that like button. So you know, you got um now you got you send the two million dollars, you quit your job. Um how much cash did you have at one time? Like that was just all right, I got access to this amount of cash at one time.
SPEAKER_01At the time, I only probably got to bring it up to the 50. And then I got robbed because he got the guy was constantly meeting me, giving me money, money, money, money. So I was just stacking it.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_01And this was like in the beginning. So then when he took, when I got robbed for the 50, I was like, I ain't want no more cash. And that's when he gave me the debit cards for 300,000.
SPEAKER_08Wow. And did you ever get a chance to spend that, spend that money or no?
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_08You spent all of it?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and then I would go to the ATM every day and take $500 out because I didn't trust him. I didn't know. I would always like take money out, and then he would go take money out for me too, give me $10,000 here, $20,000, like whatever I needed. Okay. He would go then, but I had to keep track of like how much is in there still, what, whatever. Cause I just didn't know.
SPEAKER_08What was you buying?
SPEAKER_01Um, just anything.
SPEAKER_08What did you have? Like, what's the most most suspensive thing that you bought?
SPEAKER_01Most expensive thing I bought.
SPEAKER_08Well, you had every bag, probably. What was the most expensive thing you bought?
SPEAKER_01I don't know. Um, I didn't buy no Rolex or nothing. Really? I didn't buy that. No, I didn't. I didn't buy no jewelry. No, nothing like crazy. I'm telling you.
SPEAKER_08How many trips you take?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we did travel a lot.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, what did you do?
SPEAKER_01Definitely traveled. Um, I didn't go out the country though. Really? I just traveled locally, Vegas and Miami and all that type of stuff. So I would take my whole family though, travel.
SPEAKER_08Take everybody.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Uh we went to, we go, we had like a shopping, me and my one friend shopping, like um, we went to New York and went shopping, Burdoff and Goodman and all that. Oh, yeah. We just, yeah, we just spent like 20 some years old, just stupid. Just buying the dumbest stuff ever. Bag, shoes, yes, typical stuff.
SPEAKER_10It was like, What's the most you ever gave to someone, like a friend or that? They didn't know it was coming. And you just hit their hand. And they like, are you serious? Like, because I knew it probably been one of them times for you.
SPEAKER_01Um, at the time, I think um I I probably gave my friends like 2,000. Um, but then I gave my family like 10,000. Like 10,000 here, 10,000 here, 10,000. Yeah.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01I probably gave my mom like 50,000 in one time.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So I was doing stuff like that.
SPEAKER_02Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01Like I was just a giver. Like, I was just like, I'm I'm like a giver. I'm naturally just a giver. And anybody was around me, like, you were good.
SPEAKER_02Wow.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. But like I said, at the time, no one still knew what was going on. Nobody in my circle knew what was going on.
SPEAKER_10So what were you doing for this year though, that you quit? Like this whole year, you just you got another job somewhere else?
SPEAKER_01No, no, no. And I start, that's when I went back home and I started running around with known drug dealers. And I got caught up with all of that.
SPEAKER_08Oh, okay. But yeah, she's like, she's a she she said she's like, she's a giver, but you're more like a taker, right? No, no. No, I'm not a taker. I'm a giver.
SPEAKER_10A giver. But yeah, so damn, man. So you had that motherfucking $300,000 when you went back home.
SPEAKER_01No, I had I had $300,000 on the cars, but I still had access to all the other money. So at the time he gave me $800,000 in the bank. When he did a million dollar split, when he did a split, he gave me, I had $800,000. So $300 is what I had on the car's access to. But then he was still giving me money. Like every couple weeks, he was giving me money.
SPEAKER_10Just hitting your hand.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So I had access to the whole eight hundred. Which was my cut outside of all the money we were already dealing with at the time. So, but I just didn't move it. So when when when when everything hit the fan and they came in, only money that got touched was mine. That was what's in the count down to the penny. He was like, come to find out, he was solid. He like he did not take anything from me.
SPEAKER_08And this is young guy or old guy?
SPEAKER_01He was older. We call him old head. He was old head.
SPEAKER_08How old was he?
SPEAKER_01Uh at the time he probably was in his, we was in our 20s. He probably had 20 years on us, so he probably was in his late 40s.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, because that was a young guy. He probably wouldn't even never seen none of that kid. Yeah, no, he's a little bit. He knew how to be. He knew how to keep it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it wasn't his first rodeo, so he knew he was.
SPEAKER_08What kind of business did he have? You can say that.
SPEAKER_01If you can say I can say the p business?
SPEAKER_08Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Okay, he had a uh pizza shop.
SPEAKER_08Oh wow.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Wow. He had a pizza restaurant.
SPEAKER_08So at what point? You on this you're on his high, you got all this money coming in, and you know you still got I'm still humble, like so nobody knows.
SPEAKER_01I didn't my lifestyle didn't really change too much. Um I'm still driving probably a regular car.
SPEAKER_08What kind of car you had?
SPEAKER_01I probably had a Honda.
SPEAKER_08Okay.
SPEAKER_01Honda.
SPEAKER_08Honda's run forever.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Like I said, I didn't I wasn't trying to put too much on me. I did buy a house though and stuff like that, but yeah, I stayed humble.
SPEAKER_08Wow. So you get now to get all this money. At what point or when did you know that the feds was on you?
SPEAKER_01So at the time I had ended up getting into a relationship, and then they so we took a trip to Texas.
SPEAKER_10With a drug boy.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So we take a trip to Texas. Um, I wasn't supposed to drive back. My friend, she got paid to drive back, but I just felt like I was just stressed out because at that time they had called me and said, Hey, we got con we got word that um we we just we wanted you to come in. My job called me, my old job called me and said, Hey, we want to know if you can come in and kind of reconcile this transaction. That's what they just called me in at that time. They weren't um, yeah. They just asked me if I can come in and kind of help them out and figure out how to reconcile something. I was like, okay, I'll be in. But I also knew he was about to go to Texas, so I didn't, I knew I wasn't going in on Monday. I said I'll be there on Monday, but I knew I wasn't. But I was stressed out the whole Texas ride.
SPEAKER_10What the hell they went with me?
SPEAKER_01Right. So we I flew to Texas and then coming back, I was like, I'm gonna get in the car and drive back. And I knew the car was dirty, and I was like, I'm just gonna drive back. And they was like, nah, you're not supposed to get in the car, but I'm like, I'm gonna drive back. So I drove back with my friend just to kind of clear my head because I was like, it's about to go down. But it didn't go down right away.
SPEAKER_10Um you made it back.
SPEAKER_01We made it back, yeah. We made it back. Um, this is like when it was like a drought, nothing was going on, so we went all the way to Texas.
SPEAKER_08Drought like what? You mean a coke?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So we went all the way to Texas and um yeah, had a good time out there and then drove.
SPEAKER_10With that ride, it's like what 12 to 16 hours or something like that?
SPEAKER_01Oh my god, I drive for like 20 something hours, it feels like. I don't know.
SPEAKER_08We stopped in Atlanta and took a break and then That's still a long distance from Atlanta too. Wow. So you you so you take this ride. Why why did you decide to come back?
SPEAKER_01What from Texas and all?
SPEAKER_08Yeah, why did you decide to come back?
SPEAKER_01Family, I guess. Like you mean why didn't I stay down there?
SPEAKER_08Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I don't know, family. I knew I I don't know, I wasn't gonna run from this situation. Um, I didn't think nothing about it. I wasn't gonna run from it. I was just kind of waiting for the day it came. Crazy to say, but I was waiting for them to come to get me.
SPEAKER_08Did you still have money when they when they contacted you?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. So I still had lawyer money. I was paying a lawyer the whole time. I was paying a lawyer. So my my my stepdad at the time had a uh we had a family lawyer and I was paying a lawyer.
SPEAKER_10But you was paying a lawyer for what though?
SPEAKER_01Just in case the one effects come, I was lawyered up.
SPEAKER_10Oh, so you just was made sure you had one on retainer. Yeah. Like the jump bite on something, too. Yeah. Okay.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So I was I was paying paying a lawyer, and like I said, I came home, and then that's when I got caught up with, you know, in in unhealthy relationships. And at the time the guy was with ended up catching a murder case, murder charge. So that's when the the knock came at the door. And I thought it was for him, but here it was for me.
SPEAKER_08Wow. Oh, y'all was living together.
SPEAKER_01Uh, yeah.
SPEAKER_08So describe that, describe that when you open the door, what happened?
SPEAKER_01So when I opened the door, they was just like, you know, they were saying who they were, and I thought, okay, they're about to come and question me about him.
SPEAKER_08What did they say? So they they are that they said we're federal agents.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, they was um, they was uh, they weren't like federal, like typical federal agents, they was like um postal service agents or something. Yeah, they they sent postal service agents or something like that, and then that's why I was like, oh, okay. So as they're talking, I was like, oh, you're here for me for that. And I was like, oh wow.
SPEAKER_10Is he there at the time too?
SPEAKER_01No, he's locked up. So I was like, oh, I have a lawyer. And they was like, okay, and then I kind of just end it. But like I said, I wasn't indicted or charged. They was knocking still questioning me because at the time they didn't know what happened.
SPEAKER_08Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So nobody knew what really would happen.
SPEAKER_08They was investigating.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it was just an investigation. So I never got never got arrested.
SPEAKER_08Charged, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I never got arrested or charged. They just kept coming to the house and I kept saying I lawyered up and I, you know, talked to my lawyer. And then um, and then after that, uh, they ended up raiding my house one day.
SPEAKER_08The feds? How long? How long?
SPEAKER_01Um, maybe like uh a month later, they raided the house.
SPEAKER_10Were you there when they came?
SPEAKER_01Mm-mm. I was in I was in Atlantic City. I was in Atlantic City when they raided my house.
SPEAKER_08You ain't find out until you got back home.
SPEAKER_01No, I got the call.
SPEAKER_08Like they called you or somebody else called you.
SPEAKER_01Somehow it called me in the house, like, yeah, they're raiding the house. Like, so, but there was nothing in the house. So there was nothing. Yeah, so they was raiding trying to find stuff, but there was nothing. Like, I didn't have anything. I didn't have anything.
SPEAKER_08The feds, the mar the uh U.S. Marshalls, and I mean I'm sorry, not U.S. Marshalls, the feds, FBI.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. I had a like a safe in the house, which I couldn't even get in the safe. I didn't know what was in it, but they like blew the safe up, but it was nothing in there, but they like blew the safe up, everything. When I got back home, like it was just all outside of my yard, this and that. They the safe was in your yard. Yeah, they left it in my yard. They blew it up and left it in the yard.
SPEAKER_10Wow. There was nothing in it though. There was nothing in it? Oh, but they blew it open. They was won't make sure if it was up there.
SPEAKER_01So like I like like I said, I there was nothing in the house. There was nothing to kind of trace me back to anything.
SPEAKER_08No money, no nothing was there.
SPEAKER_01Nothing.
SPEAKER_08So you so you so you um you come back from say you was in Atlantic City?
SPEAKER_01Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_08So you come back from Atlantic City. What did you do? What happened after that?
SPEAKER_01So I meet with my lawyer, uh, and that's when he was like, well, clearly they know something, so let's take a meeting. So we took a meeting with them. At the time they hit me with a civil case and they wanted me to do a deposition, but then they end up throwing it out. They threw the civil case out. So we took a meeting, they threw the civil case case out, um, and my lawyer was like, You're good then. You're good. And then that's when six months later, they came knocking at my door.
SPEAKER_10So this is damn near two years later.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so we're in 09 now, yeah. Yeah, this is 2009 from 07.
SPEAKER_08So you thought you was cool after the right. Yeah, my lawyer was like, they threw the I got away with almost three million dollars. I'm good.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, my lawyer was like, they threw it out, the civil case out, so most likely you're not gonna get federal charges, and I was good, and then six months later they came back. But they still didn't come back to indict me, they just came back investigating.
SPEAKER_10Took you down to talk to you again. What was the question they was asking you?
SPEAKER_01Um, they was just asking if I knew um certain people that was involved, and I was like, I don't know them. Um they mostly just asked me that, like if I knew them, and I'm like, no, I don't know them, and I don't know nothing about this. I just kept telling them I didn't know anything.
SPEAKER_08And then uh Yeah, so that's that's when um So that so hold on, they came to was it what six months later, where did they come? They came to your house again, they came to your job, or was you No, they came to my house.
SPEAKER_01I wasn't working. Okay, I wasn't.
SPEAKER_08You still had that had that bread.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and then I'm running around and taking trips and transporting at this time.
SPEAKER_08Transport on what?
SPEAKER_01Um drugs, transporting um uh coke, kilos of coke.
SPEAKER_08How was you doing that? Like what was you like as you're gonna do it?
SPEAKER_01So I pretty much would rent the cars and then drive up to New York or wherever. I think we were getting between three to four.
SPEAKER_08Three to four kilos at a time. Yeah, I was taking them from where? From Philly to New York, or where y'all say?
SPEAKER_01No, like New York to Lancaster.
SPEAKER_08Oh, Lancaster. Okay, okay, cool.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, Philly here and there.
SPEAKER_08But all right, okay now this did this lead to another charge as well. Okay, we'll we're gonna stick to that stuff, keep on track. Yeah, it gets crazy.
SPEAKER_01So this is where my like I said, my life just starts spiraling out of control. So I catch the case and I kind of just kind of gave up on life. It was just spiral, I was spiraling out of control. I would just, like I said, buried myself in unhealthy relationships. Now I'm running around with drugs, transporting drugs and everything. And then that leads to now, okay. So back for it. So I take the meeting. My lawyer's like, pretty much they know something, but come to find out they didn't know anything.
SPEAKER_08Really?
SPEAKER_01So no. And I told him myself.
SPEAKER_08How? Explain.
SPEAKER_01I told him myself because they sat down, they had a conversation with me. My lawyer's like, they know what's going on, this and that. I'm like, they don't know. He's like, they know, so whatever. So I end up telling them what happened. I end up telling them what I did.
SPEAKER_10So you're saying, so you're saying that statement is very true when they say, uh, do not say nothing unless you got canceled, because everything that you tell them will be used against you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and then it didn't help. I paid a lawyer. My lawyer charged me $50,000 to tell yourself. To tell on myself. And his thing was like, you know, now I'm in the system, I don't know. I'm trusting him. And he's like, pretty much they know what's going on. So we're gonna take this meeting, and boom, I'm gonna go.
SPEAKER_10So was you charged yet though?
SPEAKER_01No, at the time I'm not charged. We're taking the meeting. So he's saying that they keep coming, they keep raiding, and he's telling me that they basically they know, but I'm like, now in hindsight, they didn't know. Because once I told them, they was like, Oh, we thought that you did X, Y, and Z. We didn't know, we they didn't know the play, they didn't know.
SPEAKER_08Damn. So Yeah. I was we're not condoling condoning breaking law, but if you are breaking law out there, yeah, don't tell him keep your mouth shut.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, don't tell them yourself.
SPEAKER_08I mean, let's keep your mouth shut.
SPEAKER_01It was like so.
SPEAKER_08After that meeting, they like, wow.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_08Now they got information. So now they in the back, you know, slapping fives and everything. No, we got her. And how soon after that did they arrest you?
SPEAKER_01No, they left me out. I was out on pretrial release. So I stayed out. So I guess he was trying to work out a plant deal. I guess that's the way he was going. So now I'm charged. Okay. So then they charged me with um wire because um conspiracy to commit wire fraud. They charged me one count in Delaware. Delaware. So then they leave me out on pretrial release. So I'm on pre-trial release for Well, they let you go home. Mm-hmm. Yep. I was out for like over a year on pre-trial release. Enough time to catch another case. Yeah.
SPEAKER_10But you ain't booked for this one yet. You just had an open case.
SPEAKER_01I just had an open case.
SPEAKER_02Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_08Wow.
SPEAKER_01Yep. So I have an open case.
SPEAKER_08So you're out moving about, and then, like you said, you're transporting drugs back and forth. So what happened with that? Let's talk about that.
SPEAKER_01So at the time, um, so you weren't scared transferring drugs before Fed. I wasn't because I thought that in my mind, I thought that if you didn't, if as long as you got caught, like I thought you had to get caught. And I'm like, okay, I'm driving up, I'm not touching the drugs, I'm not handling it. I'm in the car with someone else. They're doing a transaction, they're meeting a connect. I'm just in the car.
SPEAKER_10So I'm cool. You think I'm cool?
SPEAKER_01I'm thinking I'm cool. I'm just driving. I ain't thinking.
SPEAKER_10But the whole time you ain't cool at all.
SPEAKER_01No. So the whole time I'm like, first of all, I'm on pretrial release, and I didn't even take that serious. I didn't even understand like what I was up against, what I was facing. I'm like, okay, whatever.
SPEAKER_08So you out this call.
SPEAKER_01But here I didn't realize because my lawyer's trying to tell me, like, okay, it's like done. Like you told them they know what it is, it's it's done. Like, that's how he's making the seem. Like, you just gotta go deal with your time once you get sentenced, whatever.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, that lawyer did be fucked up.
SPEAKER_01Oh, he did me so dirty. He did me so dirty because at the end of the day, my co-defendants went to trial. And we all could have gone to trial. So they went to trial, but then they was like, you gotta testify. I was like, I'm not testifying against them. So I didn't testify. So then I got sentenced.
SPEAKER_08Well, let's talk about let's go, let's just rewind a little bit. Let's go back to this transport thing. You say you transport three to four kilos at a time. And how frequent was this?
SPEAKER_01Um, so like I said, there's still like a drought going on at the time. So we're going to New York, we're going to North Carolina, we're going to Virginia, we're just going anywhere to try to get something. Um, so I was doing this every week. Maybe two, three times a week.
SPEAKER_10Dude, yeah. Yeah. Oh, you running them off.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we was going like two.
SPEAKER_10Three or three times a week?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we was going through the three. I thought you were gonna say a month. No.
SPEAKER_08That's like 32 keys a month.
SPEAKER_01We was going like every week.
SPEAKER_08That's eight a week.
SPEAKER_01We was, yeah. We was going like, yeah, two or three times a week.
SPEAKER_08Transporting them from from from New York to Lancaster. Lancaster.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's how it became federal because you crossed state lines.
SPEAKER_08So what happened with that? How did y'all get caught up with that? What happened?
SPEAKER_01Never got caught. No one ever pulled us over. Um none of that ever happened. Uh got caught because someone got caught and then ended up incorporating my name. So this girl got caught on another case. And then at the time, someone else got caught and they mentioned my name. But when a girl got caught, they said to her, they was like, hey, you know anybody else that be transporting? And she gave up my name and then a couple other people's names.
SPEAKER_08Why are you on pre-release?
SPEAKER_01Why I'm on pre-trial release. So then when they run my name, they see I'm on pre-trial release out in Delaware, and I got a case out there. So then when I'm going, I'm going to court, they pull me in a room and they say, Hey, we got word you've been, you know, transporting drugs across state lines. Either you talk or, you know, I'm saying you just lose everything over here. And I was like, Wow, I ain't I ain't talking. And so then my lawyer's like, Oh, so you're just gonna go out in a blaze of glory. I said, I guess. And so, and I was pregnant at the time. I end up getting, um, I was end up getting pregnant on pretrial release. So now I'm like, I know for sure I'm going to jail. I was, you know, stressed out, but my mom, she was a writer, and she was like, you know, whatever you decide, I'm here.
SPEAKER_10But you never got caught with no drugs, never got caught with no drugs.
SPEAKER_01Never got caught.
SPEAKER_10You always accusations of somebody.
SPEAKER_01Accusations, yep. And I didn't know at the time, that's all they needed. All they needed was two people to be able to say yes, she transported drugs, and now I'm indicted.
SPEAKER_08And that's the feds. That's the feds. So, wow. Now, was this a whole nother indictment that that you were a part of with these with the drugs? Yeah, that's a whole other.
SPEAKER_01So now we're in 2010. I'm sorry, we're in 2010. We're in 2010, 10 at the time. Um, I'm pregnant, I'm on pretrial release, I'm I'm getting sentenced. I'm about to get sentenced on a wire fraud.
SPEAKER_08Wow.
SPEAKER_01So 2011, I get sentenced of 48 months on the on the wire fraud. They give me four years.
SPEAKER_10Okay, they gave you four years.
SPEAKER_01They gave me four years.
SPEAKER_10So they take you in.
SPEAKER_01They said they give me 30 days to turn myself into.
SPEAKER_10Okay, what jail you had to turn yourself into?
SPEAKER_01I had to turn myself into um Aldison.
SPEAKER_10Okay.
SPEAKER_01I was supposed to turn myself into Aldison. And then while out on pretrial release, I'm sorry, while out on them 30 days, they come and indict me on a drug charge, drug charge.
SPEAKER_10Before you even get a chance to turn it on. Before I even get a chance to turn myself in.
SPEAKER_01Two weeks after I get sentenced for wire fraud. I get re- I get indicted on a drug conspiracy.
SPEAKER_10So now you in there.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I'm in now.
SPEAKER_10I'm quite sure they ain't give you no bell this time around.
SPEAKER_01No, no, I had my daughter. I had my daughter in um January of 2011. I got sentenced in February, February 22nd. Um, no, February 7th of 2011. And I was supposed to turn myself in March 7th.
unknownWow.
SPEAKER_01And then February 22nd, they pick me up and indict me on a drug charge.
SPEAKER_10So now you ain't got to turn yourself in because I'm quite sure they didn't give you no bail or something. Oh, no, no, no.
SPEAKER_01They take me to Allentown. So I'm detained in the Allentown County jail.
SPEAKER_10So how never was in jail.
SPEAKER_01This is my first time ever.
SPEAKER_10And then let me ask you this. Did they send you to the jail to do your time or kept you there because you got a new case?
SPEAKER_01Um, they kept me in Allentown for two and a half years.
SPEAKER_10Yeah, because you got a new case. In county jail. Yeah. But that time was, you were serving time though. That time was counting though, wasn't it? The 48 months that you just didn't know who.
SPEAKER_01They didn't know who's where the time was going at the time.
SPEAKER_10Okay, but it was still counting until they figured out where they're gonna put it on.
SPEAKER_01So I'm sitting there thinking, like, okay, I got 48, I got 48 months on a wire fraud, no cooperation. So they gave me 48 months. And my co-defendants went to court, they got, they went to trial, but you know, I didn't I didn't have me to testify, so they had to take other the other people in our whenever on our case on that they knew flipped. There's only three of us on our case. But they ended up getting eight years. One got eight, I got four, and then the old head got eight, I got four, and the other one, they only charged them for the four to the ten. The small he got like two years or so.
SPEAKER_10Oh, so they caught the old head that was getting the mill with you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_10Oh, we ran old head ass now. Come on over here and get to this. They went up in that piece of shop, and then his people flipped.
SPEAKER_01So where the money went for the two million, went to like an investment type thing, they ended up flipping on him.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, yeah. Wow.
SPEAKER_01So that's who, and they they took the stand in that way they was able to get him.
SPEAKER_08Let's talk about this uh the the the uh the cocaine indictment. Um, how many codies was on that indictment?
SPEAKER_01Oh man, so they um it was two, and then they did uh superseding, and then they did about five more, and then they did a second superseding, and that's when they locked up the females. So, and it was four of us. So altogether it was about 11 to 13. I can't remember. It's about 13 of us on there, I think.
SPEAKER_08Conspiracy. How many kilos did they they charge you with? How much drugs was it that they said they were?
SPEAKER_01When they do that, that them things, they charge you with like they do like they get ridiculous. Yeah, they do like fifty or more kilos. It's like um they they charge you with drug conspiracy, conspiracy conspiracy to commit um and they charge you with distribution. It's like all these different charges they charge you with. Yeah. But it's like I I forget the kilo amount they put on there though. Cause they put it's the same on every one.
SPEAKER_10It's probably a thousand grams or more.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_10Mm-hmm. That's what they had in my experience. It's like the basic they give you the top joint.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. It's like the basic they give you that.
SPEAKER_10I want to back up a little bit. I want to ask you, what was you making some good money for these trips? Was it worth it? No.
SPEAKER_01It wasn't worth it.
SPEAKER_10No.
SPEAKER_01I mean three four time at the time is it it it feels like it's it's worth it. It's worth it. But you know you're not really thinking about it because at the same at the time I'm not really in it for the money because I had money. So I'm just doing it because that's my friend. Like oh that's my best friend.
SPEAKER_10So you was just doing it because you just you connected by loyalty.
SPEAKER_01Yes yeah yeah so at the time the guy that was in the game so it was like my best friend it was like he always said like dang like me and you we don't you don't need me for money like people that surround me they need me. So it was like a different type of bond that we supposedly had because it was like I don't need you for money you don't need me for money.
SPEAKER_10But was you getting anything or you just wasn't taking nothing I was getting money.
SPEAKER_01Yeah yeah yeah we was getting like five to a thousand each trip so we we could easily make like 5,000 easy you know whatever so we weren't so I was like in my mind it's two and a half hour trip me getting five eight hundred dollars whatever plus I'm getting mine off the top so I was different because he was cheap he wasn't really paying us like we should have $500 and you carrying back kilos bricks he was getting over yeah but I was going to get mine I was still getting mine off the top so that hit I'm getting I'm getting mine.
SPEAKER_08What was the kilos being stashed?
SPEAKER_01Like was it like in a in a in a like a um a trunk the trunk what did they have a uh the tires a stash spot in the in the car how was it been no it wasn't even a stash car it was just a basic rental they would just put it maybe underneath where the tires at it was nothing nothing special about nothing special about nothing it was more or less like you got license you're in the rental car you're good it was never no like scare like I don't know it wasn't ever really scared when I was doing that because I just felt like I'm not in a car by myself someone's here and if something goes down I'm thinking they'd take the charge like and I didn't know. Paperwork is right I got a rental rental yeah I got license most things we do we're not smoking or nothing there's nothing really like whatever I'm just following all the the the the highway safety so I'm not thinking that I'm gonna get I'm gonna get caught so how long did you sit over in this county jail fighting this case? Two and a half years.
SPEAKER_10Two and a half years did you plea out or you went to trial?
SPEAKER_01Oh I I felt like I was going to trial I was like I'm going to trial did you go to trial? No I did not go to trial okay you didn't go no the DA brought me in so um I always felt like the DA on my drug case had a personal vendetta against me because he was the C same DA who's confidential informant got murdered. So the guy I was with was charged with murder of a confidential informant okay and this was the DA's confidential informant yeah so I always felt like it was a personal verdad he had against me okay so I was like this personal so he was like at the end of the day like she's useless to me. He never wanted to talk to me and he was like she's useless to me because everybody on my case already flipped Wow so even the guy that you was the guy you was cool with he flipped too yeah yeah the head guy yeah he probably won't admit it but yeah how you know but I'm saying how you know what he black and white I wanna I was going to trial I got all my paperwork.
SPEAKER_08And he said your name basically told is he home now um he was home now he's back in jail.
SPEAKER_01For the same thing or something similar same price same thing so now now you you you transporting these um these drugs back and forth like you said it was like no we can make easily five thousand a week or so throwing all the things yeah it wasn't he wasn't really paying us like once um like once I got locked up and I was seeing what girls was making I was like oh I wasn't making that type of money transporting they was making thousands on the key I'm like oh wow I wasn't making that and so um get what you negotiate yeah negotiate that yeah so I'm gonna ask you this though so now when you get indicted now that they they're keeping you in prison you never even been to prison before you never even been like arrested like that in in that in that manner I mean in hell um what was going through your mind when that happened my daughter was six weeks old um so seven seven weeks old and I was just like that's what it was going through my mind like my daughter like dang like I I got pregnant and then I you know I I contemplated having her or not because I already knew I was going to jail and I was like she's being brought into this like she's being like paying for the the consequences of my actions that happened prior to her existence. So it kind of ran through my mind like I wanted to be selfish. I didn't want to you know have her right but you know so she was the main focus she was my main focus my main that's I don't look at that as being selfish either though.
SPEAKER_10Yeah I mean you was in you was under duress you was in jail then who wants to have a baby and you know what I'm saying and all that like don't you know I mean I don't think you was being selfish with that you was you was thinking outside the box why bring something into a whole mess like this and that's all I kept thinking about like I just didn't want to have her I didn't want to put that burden on anyone else and I was then when I got the drug conspiracy I'm like I'm in deep like I I was I knew the wire fraud okay I can do four years but then when they hit me with the drug conspiracy minimum is 10 there's no way underneath this 10 at all yeah like I'm like it's mandatory 10 and I'm like so I'm gonna get 10 years.
SPEAKER_08You're sick.
SPEAKER_01So I'm sick because I didn't see the I didn't see the indictment for the drug conspiracy. I I did not see it you know and the whole time I'm just riding because the the guy I was dealing with who got the murder case he was like you know he's like play this guy close you know so now I'm taking the trips I'm transporting the drugs just because I'm just trying to play him close to see what's going on here. Your loyalty yeah so I it was just yeah it just all backfired on me.
SPEAKER_10So what they offered you a deal at the end of the two and a half years they never offered me a deal the guy I told you the DA told me I was useless.
SPEAKER_01There was no deal there was no nothing there was no talking to me no nothing. They knew everything already so how oh so they made you go to trial no it was either um it was either um oh I'm sorry he did he offered me a C plea for 15 years okay he did what's a C plea?
SPEAKER_10For those who don't know I don't I don't even know what a C plea is a C plea is like you you don't got to implicate nobody else in what you're doing. You can just take it for yourself especially when you got co-defendants. Okay or I'm just here to talk about my part in it I don't know I know they are my co-defenders but yeah I'm agreeing to so that's a C plea.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_10Okay.
SPEAKER_01I didn't even know what a C plea was I just knew like if I took the he just my lawyer was just saying he's offering you a C plea for 15 there's no negotiation you just won't get 15 years. That's it that's all wow so let's rewind a little bit um the two years in the county jail never been in jail but two and a half two and a half years how was that I'm just saying like that's like the county prison is like wow how what was going what was going on in in the county when you was in there was it terrible no I was actually blessed um to go to Allentown and not my county jail um I I I've never been to other county jails but what I heard that that Allentown treats you a little better. Okay. So we had flat screen TVs in our room our food wasn't terrible you know the CEOs wasn't mean because they was getting paid well they was like saying like they was one of the highest paid CEOs in the county jails and area. So yeah it was it wasn't bad from my first experience I was like wow I was like kind of you know to me I had like empathy because I see it was a lot of dope you know I wasn't used to being around like um dope users and so heroin users. So they was coming in detoxing and they were just sick throwing up yeah and I was the one to make sure they had stuff like make sure they had chocolate make sure they had commissary I was that one and someone coming in needed something I'm got packages we need to make a phone call oh mom three way this person needs a call I was that person in jail so the welcome committee you mentioned that at one point you was like spiraling out of control uh what was that does that mean like you was into drug use and things like that that you was like abusing drugs or what did you what do you mean by that probably just alcohol just like partying drinking gambling just like you know in unhealthy relationships just spiraling out of that control like could not I couldn't see I I feel like I worked so hard to get where I was like meaning like going to college and exceeding and I I always say I threw it all away over click over click of a button I threw my whole life away and I just couldn't see life beyond that point. I just felt like it was over for me. I just threw everything away.
SPEAKER_08Describe your meaning of an unhealthy relationship what do you mean by that?
SPEAKER_01In relationships with people I know that wasn't healthy for me like drug dealers. Yeah so that was unhealthy relationships. You know I wasn't in abusive relationships or so but it was just like just being in a relationship with drug dealers and knowing that they're going to go to jail and what that looks like and that lifestyle and just you know party party get wasted there's no balance in that lifestyle you go to sleep whenever you wake up whenever you just do whatever nobody's working nobody got no income and we're all just living groundhog day wake up and do it again tomorrow. Yeah yeah so that was that was just the unhealthy relationships because I didn't care to for me that allowed me to escape my reality being in those relationships being in that fast life I just was like I didn't have to think about jail prison or whatever I had going on in my life because like I said still nobody knows what's going on so this secret's still making me sick nobody still around me knows what's going on and I'm just just just so so basically at the end of that two and a half years they offered you a C plea during the two and a half years they offered me a C plea and I said I don't I'm not taking I'm going to trial so now I'm preparing for trial.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_01So why I'm staying that long is because I'm preparing for trial.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_01So the week so at this time every my co-defendants are trying to get messages to me like just plea out take the plea because they know they're gonna have to take the stand. Exactly they don't want to take the stand but they're going to so the DA he balls me in the office he tells my lawyer he's like you know what I'm gonna take a meeting with her. So he finally takes a meeting with me the week of trial he sits me down brings me in he said he looks me in the eyes and he tells me he said I guarantee you you go to trial your daughter's gonna be your age by the time you come home I was like 30 daughters like one too like so I was like 30 something so basically you're telling me I'm getting 30 years. So um yeah yeah so when he said that and he was like they're getting on the stand against you like all of 'em all every last one of them they're getting on the stand so then that's when I was like with a deal at that's when you was like where that deal at? Yeah and what was the deal they offered you um they didn't offer me a deal because they plea was off the table only thing they offered me is just go plead guilty and then just pretty much go to the mercy of the court yeah and that's what you did yeah you bold boy I would say you got balls if you was a man but god damn I was already in I was already in deep I felt like that you know if they want to give me 15 I already got four and I felt like I didn't have anything to lose so I felt like at the time I thought 15 was life you gotta give me 15 years that's life I'm about to take my gamble you know so you rolled the dice so what the when you took the deal what you had to come back for sentencing yep I can had to come back for sentencing like yo what you could be facing yeah he didn't tell you like yo you might get this or might get that yeah he told me my guideline range right exactly um he told me my guideline range um the low end on my guideline was 151 months uh so was that uh 12 years yeah 12 12 12 and a half or so years 151 months was my guidelines and I forget what was the higher end I'm not sure but 151 was the low end wow yeah so what'd you end up getting I ended up getting 151 months ran consecutive to the 48 months for a total of 199 months wow 16 years um nine months yeah so my um my lawyer was telling me he was like um you know people get four years for jaywalking and you got four years on on three point something million dollar thing you know with no cooperation so they just weren't having it and you coming over here you still not cooperating yeah no you're you're not you're not yeah you're getting and then so they and then they labeled me like as like the queen pin of the case like I had the brains I had the smarts behind it I went to school so they took all my my degree my education and threw it against me because they was like at the end of the day you had the smarts you had this like you were the brain around behind this whole corporation.
SPEAKER_10And and I just want you to say this again for the audience that's that's watching man you was a person that went to college that graduated college that had an upscale job like no one is exempt from going to prison as you can see this is a lady we're not talking about a man up here where it's common for a man to do some dumb shit and take his dumb ass to jail. But we have women also that's in our society that's getting a lot of time how much time all together 16 years nine months so 199 months. How much time did you do out of that?
SPEAKER_01I did 10.
SPEAKER_10So I did nine years uh 10 months and that's a long time that's a long time for anybody but let alone a woman and then you got a baby out there at the same time.
SPEAKER_02Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01And yeah I got a baby out there and then yeah it was just like I said it was it I I just feel like in in that time in my life I was just like people pleasing like I just really just didn't um know how to have a balance set boundaries it was all these things I didn't know because I'm just like caught up so at this time like you said I'm just caught on loyalty and I'm just trying I'm locked in now. I'm locked in and I'm just riding the whole wave out and like like I said so my co-defendants on the drug conspiracy I could have flipped first because I was already they pulled me in and it's like talk now or you're gonna get indicted but in my mind I'm thinking like well they're gonna ride with me if something happens in your mouth there's nothing they don't have anything on me. I never got caught whatever I ain't on the wiretaps I'm out on anything so what could really happen to me on this drug conspiracy not knowing that they would flip on me I didn't think they would flip I never never seen that coming I really thought they was going to be the ones like hey I'm gonna take a deal whatever I'm gonna do but let them go let the females go. But it didn't happen that way.
SPEAKER_10So upon you getting sentenced right how much longer did you have to stay in that county jail after you received your second sentence okay so once I got sentenced they they pretty much it was it was a rather speed ball.
SPEAKER_01Yeah it was a speed ball so while I was in county um jail five months in my brother got killed my brother got murdered yeah so I was dealing with that you know the death of my brother and then um so the two and a half years I set and then right after I got sentenced they moved me like a week later.
SPEAKER_10What jail did you go to?
SPEAKER_01They moved me to FDC Philly that's the first time you down there get walk out you walk under under that underground and all that yeah underground bring you up um get processed in um I was in Philly for about a couple months I was about to say they ain't gonna leave you there because you got a big sentence yeah you could have stayed they did ask me if I wanted to stay they said they wanted they did yeah they'd have kept you if you so you didn't want to stay no I I leave the city no you want to walk around I was not doing all that time on one pod. But you you'd have had a commissary job a kitchen you would have been going all day long I couldn't do it I couldn't do it I told them no out of here I said get me out of here no all them double sevens DC coming through that's that was DC's home jail tell me how the DC women is same way how the DC men are off the hook but they is yes man if you had if you came in with 007 the job they wouldn't even give them jobs like if you slid um a sheet underneath their say employment they seen 007 they ripping it up no they was loud they was obnoxious yes they was give me may I grow my DC in the building I love it but they was y'all run a muck in the system stop playing around may I can I it was neat it was a lot like no no no so how long they had you at uh FDC Philly for I think I did about two months.
SPEAKER_10So they sent you there to designate you yes you went there you got you know you they sent you paperwork through Grand Perry and all that other dumb ass shit the region and all that what jail did you get designated to so I got a heads up that I was designated an ordinary you know you can't get a heads up even though they ain't allowed to take you to who told you the counselor or the team told me the counselor gave me a little heads up she messed with you she was thirteen she gave me a little heads up that I was going to order some so I I'm on the phone like you better not say nothing about that to nobody on the phone you did I seen niggas get their whole joint taken from it happen.
SPEAKER_01I'm on the phone like okay I'm probably gonna leave tomorrow like because they're giving me a heads up like yeah you took the people give me a heads up like whatever so I'm on phone my mom like all right I'll be the whole situation they they packed me out took me over to get on the plane set me there for hours and sent me back. Yeah twice to happen to me so then I realized can't be telling they didn't I realized what was going on so then last time I didn't use the phone I didn't send an email I didn't do anything I said I'm getting out of here so they did two times for me packed me up the about to take me on a flight and then sent me back right back where is Edison located at Aldison West Virginia oh damn or anything they don't give them Virginia is a wrong term. It is I agree with you well I don't know I know for the men's facilities but the the I ain't never even know they had a woman facility I thought it was only uh Berlin Aldison was nothing Aldison was that a camp or a camp's a camp Aldison is like a whole college campus they call it Martha Store Martha Store facility was you allowed to outside like did you have a job where you could leave uh no or they ain't trust you with that yet they said no when I got to Aldison because you um because of the fact I had so much time I could not I couldn't do certain things like you you just can't do certain things because of your time because Alison is for short timers so first of all they told me I wasn't even going to go to camp yeah you had to they said I wasn't gonna go to camp my mom always said it was favor it was like but it was you you have you're you ain't have a violent I ain't had no violence but that's why they let you slide yeah so I went straight to camp they took me to Oklahoma on a flight and then we went to um we went to uh Aldison when I was on the flight though the flight was acting up and we was in the air we had to turn around and do an emergency landing because the plane really was smoking.
SPEAKER_10The women dress in that in that paper suit as well no they don't they don't do that. Some of them do I did see like some people come out of DC in the paper suit Oh women yeah women oh yeah yeah they usually put you all in some tans yeah yeah I was in tans I was in khakis you may do the little bus shoes a little dumb ass shit and all that now I gotta ask you this question right before we even go into your stint of doing time in prison um for the women during your time that you did time in the federal system would you ever involve uh in any homosexual acts I'm just saying if you might want to lead that out or we talking about tales from the jail. No, it's because I'm quite sure women then came at you you know you said you was running around bubble ishes with all that back and done so I'm quite sure this jaunt was turned up when you walked on the block like with DC in the building like what's up Slim Yeah yeah yeah I was like three and a half years in though three and before you got into a relationship yeah was it was it a strong relationship was it healthy as we like to say or was it unhealthy?
SPEAKER_01Well I'm a real calm layback person so healthy okay all right all right you ain't had to leave her well she wasn't doing the most like hold up man no because y'all was sneaking y'all was in there sneaking and creeping no okay so listen yeah there's another person I want to call hazleton they called it gazelton yup they call it for the female they call it gazeleton when you hit that compound that's when everything changed for me because I swear like I don't think one person walked that compound that wasn't involved in in in a um yeah relationship so you say you you willing to bet that I'm willing to bet that so hazelton that's a that's another camp for women no that's not a camp that's a yeah that's behind it that was um just a female they call it um secure female facility yeah because I don't even know if y'all have penitentiaries and FCIs and like how the the men no but we was the hazleton was mostly men though because it was a men pen in the middle in a camp. So we was just like slapped in the middle yeah we was in the middle like you couldn't even see cars highway none you're like in the middle of a dark place that's a dark place that was a dark place that was hard times so how long so did you like hazelton better than you liked the Edison is that the correct thing I'm saying Aldison yeah I would like Aldison was more out you're free but it was like um it was more um open living okay like so you live in like quarters like storms and stuff like that just open yes open cubicles let me ask you a question that's only wild a little bit how did how
SPEAKER_08that that relationship start that um because you said you was this is your first time ever being in that type of relationship how did that start what happened they wanna know do I go there it's up to you you can leave you can leave out what you want to leave out and say what you want to say.
SPEAKER_10Yeah no um no um I was in uh I got kicked out of Alderson and I got um sent to Hazleton and I was in a shoe I was in a shoe yep that's what happened I was in a shoe waiting to get designated so there's no there's no shoe in Alderson okay there's no camp so you could if you get in trouble you gotta go to the county okay or you go to the county jail for they hold and you said you sat there and got designated to hazelton no then from the from the county hoe they took me to hazelton to wait to get designated oh no I was in their shoe they drove me to hazelton in the shoe so would they would they committed you to that compound then?
SPEAKER_01Mm-hmm well at first they weren't they said they weren't gonna send me they was trying to get me I thought I was going back to Alderson they kept saying we're gonna try to get bring you back to camp so I was hopeful that I'm going back to camp.
SPEAKER_10So did you do something to get in trouble?
SPEAKER_01Yeah I got into a fight a fight yeah you I did well how was you what happened so once again I was minding my business doing my time and uh some girl caught me outside and here it was like I was caught up in something that had nothing to do with nothing mind you I was quiet like no one even really knew I was there so uh the girl went up she started talking stuff like that's why you got all that time and then when she said that I just ran up in the unit and lost it. Yeah and then um yeah so then I went back to my unit and I packed up because I knew I was leaving I just started packing up like telling saying my goodbyes because I knew it was time for me to go. They was gonna come get you they came and got you didn't they came and got me and I said my goodbyes and I knew I was coming back. I kind of hurt me because my my bonkey was blind so she would always like have me like read the Bible to her and talk to her like I had a cool bonkey but she was blind but she knew like she knew that whole style like cubicle out the like the back of her head and I was so amazed. Yeah and I was so amazed and she lost the eyesight while she was doing time and I was just watching every morning watch her get up get dressed she didn't complain she just would get dressed like I like she gave me so much hope but going to Aldison helped me because I met a lot of people who had time and they would just give me hope like one lady was telling me like don't ever stop giving up hope like you keep fighting putting in paperwork she said don't give up she said I gave up but don't you give up you know and then another lady she had like 30 years in and she was like um I was watching her at visitation interacting with her kids and talking and laughing I'm like dang how do you still have a relationship with your kids and she was like as long as you don't detach yourself from them they'll never detach yourself from you just constantly send them stuff write cards give them like send them mail just stay involved so I got some valuable lessons though in Aldison like from from from some um old timers and they kind of prepared me for what my time was going to look like. How much time you did off Aldison Aldison I did uh I made it like a year probably had a I did a year about in Alison So you did the rest of it at hazelton hazelton I did um in Hazleton I did about 18 months and then I worked myself worked myself back down to camp. Hazleton would kick me out and put you back to a camp yeah because they was like yeah you don't belong here because at Hazleton you didn't have to work you ain't had to do nothing like you literally never I what with federal prison you ain't gotta work most of you have to work. So you didn't have to work you didn't have to go to school you didn't have to do anything there.
SPEAKER_10Just sit around all day just sit around all day and that's a bad way to do it they put you in the cell with your girlfriend because they said that eliminated uh conflict dramas yeah so if they knew you was dating her yeah y'all going in the cell together yeah if they wanted so they was permitting allowing yeah the the the that's why I said I never seen nothing like it when I hit it was just like when I hit the compound I was like oh my god so I called my mom like there's all these women in here that look like men like I was really like I was like where am I like I never seen muscles was they cracking on you all the time sending you letters and stuff no hey how you doing today you alright no that don't happen no that don't happen no so how do they approach it it don't it don't really how like you know it gotta be like a willing you you be test like they they kind of test you out of the same thing I said that's the same thing I said test you out like nobody really like is aggressive like you're gonna be the men do like they do you when you was in there no they ain't never did me like that I ain't on ass or nothing like that never been attracted to no boy but or nothing I don't knock who do it I'm not sitting up here like we're gay bashing or none of that no I'm just a heterosexual man I ain't never had to go through that okay I had two bad bitches that that stayed with me my whole entire stay okay and that's Hannah and Pommelina they ain't got no STDs they fight for me they cook for me they do everything I need them to do they they wash me up they obedient so I ain't have no problem with going to the other sex okay I think something to that before I just want to make sure yeah yeah I'm sure okay let's get back to the lovely Mrs. Lovely all right so now you said you went you get to this jail this it is and this women they look like men they got muscles yeah they're just like the gotif the little cut there was like no indication that they was a female so I was just like mind you I never experienced this allison you didn't see stuff like that so when you get there I'm like whoa like it it was just yeah you was exposed to more people from all over now now you got people from Florida you got people from everywhere you know Detroit Texas like everywhere in Aldison because Hazelt I mean hazelton Hazleton was like um not saying a reject but if you got kicked out some other prison you go to Hazleton so that was like a place where people went that got kicked out of other facilities I would say it was just a dark place like you couldn't see no highway you couldn't see nothing we had like five minute inbound moves five minute outbound moves it was we didn't have 10 minute moves we had five minute moves they started doing that they started up a lot of five minute up five minute back yeah yeah so it was just bad and it was just kind of hard because if you missed that I would be so mad like for a whole hour you hit somewhere and then don't let something happen as I was about to get to that so you two three hours there they talk about they taking somebody to the shoe gosh then you get stuck in commissary on a move oh yeah that's a bad another bad job super bad it was just bad coming from a camp and then going coming back be confined it was hard he always speaks about uh another thing like you know you you went in your daughter was what seven months seven weeks I'm sorry seven weeks seven weeks old and were you still involved with your kids uh your daughter's father at the time um yes like he was active he was there did it how long how long before he left you in the United States um um probably not long after he probably had two girls pregnant probably like six months in my bed did he ever come to see you oh yeah yeah yeah oh he was coming no he came came to see me make sure I had money pictures like I if I would have looked at it from that perspective it would have been great but I was looking at it from like an emotional perspective for as far as my daughter exactly yeah I and and then later on I was able to kind of apologize and look at that as like time went on because I seen women who didn't even have husbands active like they're sending divorce papers as soon they got sentenced and then this and and and he still popped up even like eight years in my bed he'd just popped up you know out of nowhere comes to be with the baby moms or baby dads that really don't go but I'm glad you said because I wanted to ask you something right for the audience um because I always want to know from a female convict standpoint because you know we in there you know my little females that I was dealing with when I was locked up if I tell them to send me some pictures or something like that I'm getting pictures of them on outings probably at whatever trips they got all their girlfriends I want my panty shots for my little do men send like speedo shots and shit like that why you want to say no because I'm saying like if you in the cell and you like like because if I'm if I'm riding for my girl home me and you dating or you my wife I'm gonna send you some speedo shots. I'm gonna get in the mirror and I'm putting them drones on I'm showing you the back cakes all nights and all that you're gonna be in the cell like at night like ooh because that's how I be I be never seen those speedo shots the thumb shot she all busting it open for me you in the cell you wear thumb you were you were a thumb no I don't wear a thumb but I'm gonna put a speed up for my woman a thumb yeah she be like baby needs some I need some I need because how we say like I want some panty shots babe that's how we say so how I don't know how a female would say baby I want some panty shots no she ain't gonna say that I want some speedo shots I got you I got you I'm sending her joints in different colors leopard no they might say they might send like maybe like a a white beater shot maybe flexing or something I don't know I never never get that you know speed old I know how to take the pictures and anything a ball hanging out of just join not a time out of 10 to what those time a female flipped so they ain't even worried about that they done flipped for this time a ball hanging out at this time they flip they they gave for the stay at this time they gave for the stay no they ain't worrying about none of that nope they gave for the stay with a date ain't nobody doing none of that no I didn't see a lot of females was on like um like sites like men like men really was infatuated with women incarcerated so a lot of females I met were on sites sending pictures dating sites yeah and they were sending in money to do that in jail if you were well the men paper dolls and stuff like that they would send money in the oh see y'all yeah the men can't do that we gotta get really get to a device to really upload ourselves on it like when I got the Fort Dix that's when the phones was plentiful you know dudes would be created what is POF plenty of fish and yeah they was on those yeah yeah dudes was getting girls all the time it was nothing to identify a woman that you know probably had low self-esteem because any woman that meet a nigga in jail and be head over hill sending his money sending their money I think that's a red flag would do you would you agree with me um right now if you left out of here today after we was done and your folks told you like listen man I got folks that's locked up but he got a friend I want to go up there and see him but can you go with me while I see him but his friend wants to see you too you go I did that before you did that before did you like it was it a good experience was it someone that you was cool with that you could see yourself being with if he came on yeah I remember one time I was I I told you I was one time I went to go visit my cousin in Gradefer and it was a guy in there and I was he was cute and I was like dang cuz he cute and my cousin like Corrent really like he's locked up why you whatever and I was like and then I would start writing him going to go see him for real? Yeah how much time he had he had like um 15 15 15 in life or something like that he came home he did come home he came home when I got locked up wow so you know she never met him I never met him like out on the street wow nope nope we was like in contact and I would go visit and stuff a couple times see but you seen I give you a little grace you up there on the dance floor and looking around oh who that oh I I I get that but like you just sitting at the crib and a motherfucker just yo yeah you mean I'm the boy black from Philly and this and that and this and that I think I'm not I'm not saying it's wrong but in my mind who the hell does that people do it but I do do it I definitely wouldn't send no money to anyone I know a lot of females that I didn't know and said money in prison.
SPEAKER_01Yeah no I'm not doing that.
SPEAKER_10Breaking they back I'm talking about rent due 840 on the rent she got 910 she done sent 200 you done what dug up the rent money to send this nigga that you never met on the street no no I never I don't know the money okay yeah no I don't know nothing about it like that.
SPEAKER_01When you ask you this did you cry when we got when you got sentenced did you cry I did not and that's what they were so um so the agent was like um did you know you was getting this time I'm like no I didn't know I didn't cry you know you know she was in the audience I didn't cry I looked back your daughter right here no no no no that's my best friend in college okay that's my college roommate my best friend okay but no I didn't cry you know um it you know that hurt me too having a courtroom full of people did uh the DA use that against me he's like never in my years did I ever see a courtroom filled this much so much support and stuff but I didn't cry I was praying for peace like my faith got so strong and I just was praying for peace and I had so much peace and so when I got sentenced I just looked back at my mom like oh my god like what what am I gonna do? And she was like you know we're gonna do this time we're gonna do it together one day at a time wow she's like don't think about tomorrow don't think whatever she's like we're gonna do this time one day at a time did your daughter go with your mom or her dad? Uh both she was with my then she was with my uncle then she was with her um dad's grandmom at the end she's I'm sorry her dad's mom um at the end of my sentence.
SPEAKER_08How old is she now?
SPEAKER_01She's 15. Wow so you're home now you um so how did you do how'd you do uh nine out of the 17 so I ended up getting um two point reduction they ended up changing the drug laws and um I got the two point reduction that took my 12 and a half my 12 12 some 129 down to 10 my sentence down to 10 and then um I did um I got compassion release compassion release so my mom got diagnosed with cancer and I was able to file um paperwork and get um compassion release.
SPEAKER_10And for you Jordo there's always being extra geeking and being extra on point that you see where the five years went absolutely that's my law library clerk. Oh where the five years where if I hold up something ain't reckon right with the hell that she had who's at that Jordo just shot a Baltimore stand up.
SPEAKER_01So I end up I saw I so I end up um my outdate was like 2023 or something like that. So and then my good time you got to take in good time Fez they give you what like was it 45 days a year or something something like that.
SPEAKER_10You get 45 years.
SPEAKER_01So I had yeah so I had good time and then um um I was supposed to go to RDAP so I was in my 10 year I was supposed to go to RDAP RDAP would have gave me a year off my sentence and plus six but probably a year halfway house but what happened was um I never made it to RDAP because COVID hit so COVID hit that right then yes they shut it down the CARES Act came into place and the CARES Act allowed you to apply change the rules for compassion release nobody was really getting compassion release people would follow it and it was getting denied so I end up they changed it where you can go to the warden of the prison file for compassion release and if he don't respond to you within 30 days you was able to go straight to back to court just automatically go to court and file and that's what happened the warden didn't respond back to me I had all my paperwork saying when I sent to him he didn't respond I sent it to um court um the the the judge looked at it he allowed the DA to respond the DA respond I said oh man I I ain't going that's probably when I cried when he responded almost 10 years later still digging my back and saying how I'm not a good mother I don't need to be home and he just was like going off on me. Wow and my friend um uh free Angela she was locked up with me so she had thirteen she had a 30 year sentence she had like 13 years in and she was like filing paperwork for people to get get out and she would always be like I can file other people to get out but I can't get myself out so I gave her my paperwork and I was like sis I need you to help me and then she read over and did it and she came back to me she's like we need to get a lawyer like this is too much I was like nah I need you to file my paperwork and she filed it I read it I was like I'm going home and sure enough release they granted my granted my um release and I didn't see it coming I was like they just called me down to the office like call your mom like you got to be off this compound in seven hours by seven o'clock.
SPEAKER_10Are you serious how you feel so they woke up and COVID so everybody's in quarantine COVID starting to hit the the I'm in Kentucky at this time now oh you down there with Ashlin Kentucky yeah I'm in um Lexington Kentucky Lexington okay yeah so I after after I left Hazleton I got transferred to Kentucky in the camp satellite camp that was sweet yeah I heard that was sweet everybody in the world trying to get there oh man that was sweet they shut it down they said but that was sweet they should have shut that down so how'd that morning go for you that you woke up and then they covered you to the office like what you was doing on your regular schedule like going to whatever your job detail was or what what was your job detail in the gym because you gotta have a job.
SPEAKER_01Yes so at that time when I went to camp my job when I was in Hazleton I was doing like welding not welding um I was doing electric I was doing electric so learning about how to wire stuff and all that then when I went to um all this I mean Lexitan I worked in the um warehouse okay so we were like great job great job great forcliff getting all the stuff off the trucks you making more money by bringing some shit out than you is what they paying you that was a great bag yeah yeah so I'm I'm working outside now they don't get them jobs everybody man nope and that was the token yeah so they so you know Lexington was like a lot of like white people and stuff like that but they was like you're different so I was like the token black people like we we want to give you a yeah yeah so I was out there in uh in the um in the warehouse so we're we're interacting like you know we said with the truckers and uploading the commissary we're doing all the food orders for take inside the men's facility or the commissary just going into the men's facility so we're kind of loading and training up for the officer to take into the men's facility so I did that and then I also worked in um I always had good jobs there and then I worked in like the um game room so the game room was people would come and check out games and um flat irons and all that stuff and I worked that and that was good because you had a TV you had a remote in the little door you stay in your own little space. Yeah yeah yeah so yeah I had good jobs exit did me well um so yeah so I woke up that day I was pretty much just we was on lockdown because of COVID and I was going to go use the phone call my mom um you have no clue that this was right I had no idea I had no idea no idea but it's so crazy because like just the power of words because my mom did tell me that the the probation officer came to the house to look at the house and she was asking him like what's going on and he was like well there's no guarantees it's just protocol. The judge just wants us to come out and look so if something does happen we're gonna make sure she has a place to go to and um yeah so then my bonkey she was like we need to claim a date and so it's Christmas around Christmas time. So we was like we can't say December you know 24th because of Christmas and all that so we said December 23rd I was like okay I'm gonna be home December 23rd. I go in and go tell my counselor case manager I was like I'm going home December 23rd and I just kept saying that to him and I was like I'm going home December 23rd. Wow and um I got home December 23rd.
SPEAKER_10So what you gotta give me that day though what you was doing that day.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah that day so I just got up I went to use the phone and I'm just like BSing around like there's really doing nothing because we're on lockdown. So we're all gotta stay in our in our in our rooms am I really doing that nothing I'm listening to the radio I I think I was listening to Steve Harvey. I was doing some reading some writing just just chilling and then next thing you know the secretary called my name and she's like you know your mom's number and I thought something happened to my mom. So I was like oh man like I was like yeah I know my mom's number and she called me in so mind you it was about 11 o'clock when she called me in in the morning. So it was early so I didn't really do much that morning because like I said we was on lockdown we couldn't work we couldn't leave outside of our um uh our rooms so I just pretty much went in there and she was like call your mom and she was like gave me the paper and was like you're going home I said stop playing she said what I be playing like you're going home I gotta get you out of here by seven o'clock wow and I called my mom seven o'clock and it's 11 o'clock in the morning yes I I got rid of everything I ain't want nothing I grabbed some pictures some paperwork some legal mail put that in the bag and I was ready to go you came back out her office who you ran to and told first my case manager I ran to him and of course he knew but I went to him and he was like he looked at me and he was like besides any police which one of your which one of your comrades you like I ran upstairs to the girl who helped me with the paperwork my sis free I went upstairs she was on quarantine I ran upstairs in the back steps and let them know I was going home because mostly everybody was in quarantine. Dang yeah giving up my motherfuckers start asking right away yo you was what's up with them sneaks you bought last week what about that commissary you got everything to like this young girl I was dealing with I gave everything to her oh so you ain't tell her split it up and give it up most yeah whatever she did she did I just left everything to her okay and then I um you just took pictures home with you and paperwork yeah pictures paperwork and that's it and I I flew out of there I wasn't it didn't hit me it didn't hit me though like I got in the cab got got drove to the hotel because my sister ended up getting me a flight and get me a hotel like because they put me on a train she's like now I'm flying you home so she put me in a hotel the man drove me down to like um another part of Kentucky I forget what it was not Lexington another part and um she had me up in like the Marriott and stuff like that nice room robe I was chilling like how was that for you though how being incarcerated never in your life and now after all these years you out here at a hotel like waiting to get back to the crib like was it still anxious and it's like I can't wait till this plane come no I I I couldn't well yeah I couldn't sleep I went to Walmart though before that and got a phone and then I start calling like finally after I calm myself down I start texting people like I'm home and they're like what mind you I'm texting like two, three in the morning so they're waking up like like who is this I'm playing on my phone because I'm like I'm home And they're like, what? Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_10Yeah. I can still see the glow from that building.
SPEAKER_01Man, it was just crazy. I just couldn't sleep. I took a I took a bath. I was like, I didn't take a bath in forever. So I went to take a bath. I took a bath in the hotel. And um I just laid there. I just couldn't sleep. I was just up. I went to the airport so early. And I was just, I thought I was gonna be nervous flying, but it was like natural. I don't know. It just it just was natural. Probably because I was at a camp. Yeah and I was kind of already out and I wasn't defined and I was moving around. And I think that's what you know allowed me to just kind of adapt back into society. But um, yeah, you would have never known that I was coming from prison when I hit the airport. I didn't look like what I went through.
SPEAKER_10What's the first thing you did when you got like back to where you was from?
SPEAKER_01Well, I got to the airport.
SPEAKER_10Because you know, you know you gotta go see the PO 72 hours.
SPEAKER_01I did not. I did not. Hold up. Because it was COVID. So I had a quarantine.
SPEAKER_10Oh, yeah, everything different. Everything different. I had to do 21 days.
SPEAKER_01Oh, okay. So because I was coming home during quarantine, I had to.
SPEAKER_10Let me stop because I'm gonna give you what you're supposed to do. When you first come home within 72 hours of your release, you gotta be at the P.O. building, right?
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_10So now how do they do it now? I just wanted to put that this that out there where everybody know. Now it's a whole sip, a whole different set of rules with the quarantine. Yes. Now, how did that go?
SPEAKER_01So they give you two weeks, they give you 21 days of quarantine. Yeah. So I didn't have- you gotta go see any, but what about call? No, I didn't have to do anything. I just got out and um I got out. That's it. And they said I had 21 days to report to the probation officer to tour.
SPEAKER_02Damn.
SPEAKER_01And I drove to Redden to see her. Then after that, that's the f that's the first and last time I ever drove to her. She came to see me after that.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_01They always came to see me. Because we don't have any like um federal actual um probations in in Lancaster.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_01So they drive, like they're mobile.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_01They're based out of Redden, so then they will always she will always pull up on me at work, wherever I was at. She pulled up on me and check in on me and then go from there.
SPEAKER_08What was what was your um your daughter's reaction to seeing you?
SPEAKER_01Um Yeah, she it was opposite. Like I thought she was gonna be so happy, but she had so much anger.
SPEAKER_08Wow.
SPEAKER_01It was it was a hard transition with my daughter.
SPEAKER_08Wow. So how was that now?
SPEAKER_01Is it still Oh no, it's wonderful because I didn't give up. I just kept kept kept like coming, you know, showing up for her, going to counseling with her, just just being there, being present, and you know, we got through it.
SPEAKER_08But um, so was she uh so her first initial reaction towards you wasn't wasn't pleasant?
SPEAKER_01No, and I was so shocked because you know by this time we had video visits. So I'm doing video visits with her all the time. Like weekly, I'm doing video visits with her. We're writing, she's coming to see me. And never once did she ever show me any indication that she was angry with me. So I was so shocked when that happened. I was so caught off guard.
SPEAKER_08Through therapy, what did you uh figure out was her issue that she had with you? What was the issue that was determined?
SPEAKER_01Um, just stuff that people put in her head, um, and she just was like, You should have snitched. I was like, What? She's like, You should have snitched. And I was like, Wow.
SPEAKER_10They don't know no better.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Because that's what she was told, like, your mom didn't snitch, so that's why she's away from you. So all she was saying to me, like, you should have snitched.
SPEAKER_08Well, did she ever tell you who told her that? Who said who mentioned those things to her?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_08How'd you f how do you feel about that? Um, people who was telling her that.
SPEAKER_01Oh, I don't I don't hold no anger or animosity. I just feel like, you know, people showed up for for me when I was in my absence. And they did, you know, the best that they could um in that time. And I didn't I didn't take it personal. I didn't take it personal. And I didn't hold any anger or resentment towards anyone, honestly, because I, you know, I was in the situation and and I put myself in that situation, and I was just grateful that, you know, people stepped up and and took her in. It might not have been the best situation and we had to work through that, but you know, overall, she was taken care of.
SPEAKER_08That's the most important part. So, you know, now that you're home and you know, um you have your daughter back. Well, but you're back in your daughter's life, and you have um, you know, your family members around you. Do you see yourself going back to jail?
SPEAKER_01No, no. Nope. Um, I don't even uh associate with uh anyone that's still like in a life and stuff like that. Most people work at nine to five, nobody wanna go back.
SPEAKER_09Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Everybody, most people was just like, uh-uh.
SPEAKER_10You still got your few. Yeah, you still got your few, but they don't want to go back either, but they want to cut a corner. Don't nobody want to go back to jail.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_10I'll be the first one to tell you, but you still have motherfuckers that'll cut that corner.
SPEAKER_01It's in you. Do you think it ever go away? You don't ever go away.
SPEAKER_10It's it's in boy, it'd be perks everywhere.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's it's it's it's naturally in us, I think. Like that fast money, fast life is definitely in you, especially when you're back against the wall and hard times.
SPEAKER_10And I think I think it mellow on you when you get older. It ain't even about the fast money, it's just about being in position for me anyway. And then you don't want to wait to get in position. So again, it goes back, it revolves back to fast money. But you gotta be patient, you gotta keep going at what you're going at that's getting you with the little fuse and twos or whatever. Yeah, and keep on driving consistency, consistency builds the whole goddamn plate.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but then me, I don't naturally feel like I was um, like I don't feel as though like I'm criminal minded. Like I committed an act, but I'm not like criminal minded. I know exactly. Like, yeah, I'm not gonna mastermind uh uh a whole orchestrate, a whole type of, yeah. But I can, yeah, I might have a little input, do something like that. Cause I overthink, over-interalyze. So I'm sometimes too smart when it comes to something, a paperwork or this like that. To this day, I'm really resourceful. So people contact me all the time for something. Or if I know something, like so, see, you know, you know, the test to see if I know this or willing to do this or that. So people tried me. They definitely tried me um when I come home, came home, but I had to stand, you know, stand my ground, you know, because of simple fact that people felt as though you're loyal and you're this, so they could do this to you because you're not gonna tell, you're not gonna do this. And I'm like, yeah, nah, it's different. I'm not nah, I'm not not.
SPEAKER_10How long have you been home then?
SPEAKER_01I've been home five years.
SPEAKER_10Five years. That's a lot. You found good employment again upon coming home?
SPEAKER_01Yes. So almost five years. 22 years.
SPEAKER_08That college degree. 25. Yeah, that college degree in Austin. She ain't catch notication when she came home.
SPEAKER_01So that they can't really probably I just got off the paper December.
SPEAKER_08Oh, this December.
SPEAKER_01Past December.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, but they still probably.
SPEAKER_01So I did my whole five years because, yeah, I didn't get off early. Um, but um Can you ever work in the bank again? I don't know. They never said I couldn't, but I wouldn't want to. But they never said I couldn't.
SPEAKER_10Does it get that itch again?
unknownNo.
SPEAKER_10You start seeing them joints sitting out there for two years and get like that two million dollars still over there. Nope, I would not.
SPEAKER_01I had to change my terminology. There's certain words I can't use no more. Oh, you know, when I ask someone, can I put something, you know, can you cash this for me? You can put this thing. I can't say wire or nothing like that. Because people might think I'm trying to do funny stuff with the account and stuff. So some people are cautious, but at the end of the day, people still trust me because, you know, I still do like different things on the side, and people still trust me because they know like I'm a trustworthy person. Like I'm not gonna take nobody's information, no this, this, and that. I don't do none of that stuff. I ain't that type of um that's petty time, petty crime. So I don't steal people's identity and stuff like that. Like that's that's petty time.
SPEAKER_08But it's crazy. I was gonna say that. You see how like you you wired over three million or three million dollars or over three million dollars, and you got four years for that. But you transported these kilos and got 12 years.
SPEAKER_01That's what I never understood about the system. That was always my argument.
SPEAKER_10Oh, ho, ho. Fuck transporting the kilos. She's assumed to be transporting kilos because you didn't never actually find me. Never. She could have transported a squirrel, seven grams. That's what a squirrel is. Yeah and got 12 years for that. Off of two people saying that she didn't.
SPEAKER_01That's oh, that's it. No, they never caught me nothing. They when they played back the wiretaps. When I looked at my um discovery, I was nowhere in there. The only way I was in the discovery is when they asked the girl, like if she knew anybody else's transport, and she gave my name. And from then on, everybody else they interviewed after that, they brought my name up.
SPEAKER_03Wow.
SPEAKER_01How was she involved? Someone, please tell me how she was involved. He was like, I the DA said I could not figure you out. I had everybody on the case figure it out. But when it came to you, I could not figure out how you were involved in this case. And then he said, Oh, somebody said it. You just wanted to be street. That's what he said to be. I was like, What? Like, I grew up around this. I just got out, you know. But yeah, it was crazy. But that's it. And I always said that. Like 40, 40, I did that. I did that willingly, knowingly, sent the money, wirefalled all day. I did that time. I did that crime four years. But this drug conspiracy, nah, I didn't see that coming. 12 years, I didn't see that. I did not see that.
SPEAKER_08Let me ask you a question. Did your like your personal life, like your, you know, your dating life, was it affected by your your um prison stint?
SPEAKER_01My what life?
SPEAKER_08Yeah, like your personal life, your dating life, your being able to trust another male or being in a relationship. Was that was was it actually actually affected by your prison time?
SPEAKER_01Probably, because I came home and got with a woman.
SPEAKER_10That's how I go, man. Shit. That's how it goes sometimes. Mentales from the jails, we about here. That's how it goes man. Listen, man. We would Rocky say we look and we don't judge.
SPEAKER_01But no, like I tried. Like when I came home, I was open to dating and this and that. And I was like, oh my god, after all these years, this is what is out here? No. Mm-mm. It's bad. It's bad.
SPEAKER_10I I I I gotta agree.
SPEAKER_01It's bad.
SPEAKER_10I gotta agree. I'm gonna go ahead and walk that road with you.
SPEAKER_01Oh, it's bad.
SPEAKER_10I ain't mad at you. Yeah, is you currently dealing with a female?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_10Oh shit, it got super bad. We just split it down a razor blade into an alcohol, but y'all there's no hope for you. Ain't nothing wrong with that, man. I get it. I get it, man.
SPEAKER_08We're about to get to these phone lines. They're gonna have a lot of questions for you, man. Um, yeah, they're gonna call in.
SPEAKER_10They're gonna call in.
SPEAKER_08They're gonna call in.2. That's 215-316-4492. Hopefully, we paid the bill.
SPEAKER_10We're we bring y'all these experiences from women and men from all walks of life. Like you, like again, I like to go ahead and to the beginning of this interview with this lovely lady of ours up here today. The woman has a degree, the woman has a work history. No one is exempt from going to jail. Don't think because you just working and you good and you nine, you ain't never been in trouble in your life that you can't go to jail tomorrow. Please don't think that. Please don't think that. These people will lock you the fuck up. Tell us in the jail.
SPEAKER_08So you speaking with? First caller? Are you the second? Okay. Well, the phone lines is open, man. 215-316-4492. That's 215-316-4492. Y'all can call in and ask questions, man. So, you know, and just being home and and and having a second opportunity, uh, what does that mean to you?
SPEAKER_01Oh man, that means everything to me. So uh like he stated, it I never seen me going to to prison ever in my life. I never seen that. Um I just thought I thought I had my life mapped out for me. So everything that um I I was and I continue to still be. So I'm all about giving to the youth, have a nonprofit and honor my brother. And um, I work, you know, with the youth um as a program manager. So I just continue to give back um to the youth and just never want, you know, my story to be defined um by my my prison sentence because I'm more than that.
SPEAKER_08Let's take this call.
SPEAKER_07No more.
SPEAKER_08What's going on? Who does who we talking with? What's up, Shane?
SPEAKER_07What's going on? This is the Shane.
SPEAKER_08Hey, what's up, bro? What's up? What's going on, man?
SPEAKER_07Hey, listen. I wanna ask her a question, man. Yes. Did she get carried out in jail? Or you came home and that's what it tricked.
SPEAKER_01No, uh it was there. It was definitely in prison.
SPEAKER_07Oh, okay. Yeah. But but but you you would never mess with a man again.
SPEAKER_10They trying, boy, they trying, they cover it out, they cover it out.
SPEAKER_01Well, you know what? My partner always says that if they're not gonna mess for everything though. Yeah, my partner always tells everybody, like, if things don't work out with us, that she's gonna probably go back to a man. Yeah.
SPEAKER_08Your partner tells us that. Okay, she says. But what about you though? He's asking you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, if I if things didn't work out with who I'm with, yeah, I probably would. Because it it it's yeah, yeah. Um it's not that I don't um like men. I don't I don't hate men or nothing like that. I just I'm attracted to whoever I'm attracted to, and that, you know, and it's just yeah, happen to be her.
SPEAKER_08All right, man. Appreciate you. Any more questions?
SPEAKER_10Dark skin beauty told some you ain't got no chance, bro. Dark skin beauty, man. Stop cutting up in the chat, man. Uh, what's up, dark skin beauty? Shout out to Dark Skin Beauty.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, man. So, you know, but but you know, like just like just coming home and after doing time, it's a lot of adjustments. What was the biggest adjustment for you just getting out?
SPEAKER_01For me, uh like I said, it wasn't like um financial, it wasn't stability, this and that. Mine was um my biggest adjustment would have to be um more mental. Just kind of getting to know my family members for who they are today. Because when I left, you know, my sister was my little sister, and this one was my little because and it's like now they're like, I'm a grown woman, you can't keep treating me like this, you can't keep carrying me like that, and then it's vice versa. I'm not the same person who I was 10 years ago, and I think that was the biggest challenge trying to get to know each other for who we were today.
SPEAKER_08Tell us what Joe's we speaking with this Hank from Jersey. Yo, Hank, shout to Jersey. What's up, bro?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I got a uh question for the uh lady today. Okay, how you doing? Um, for the for your blind celly, why didn't they move her to like a medical unit or something? How was she just like in general population and she was blind?
SPEAKER_01I know that was a good question. I'm not sure if it was like a matter of she didn't want to go or she didn't have anybody fighting for her, but she she stayed right there and she did her whole time right there in the camp.
SPEAKER_04So did did you feel like you had to protect her or something? Like anybody mess with her, or no, no, no.
SPEAKER_01Everybody loved her. They used to call her pop-up, everybody loved her, but uh yeah, I didn't know I didn't feel like I had to protect her, but I just felt like in that moment, being her Sally, I felt like I was her eyes, like I just needed to, you know, guide her. Like I said, she just always said, I just want to be able to read the Bible. So I would read the Bible to her at night and stuff like that. So I just felt like I was building a relationship with her, and then I was able to like get information from like the blind association and different things and give her information about it. So I think I was there for a purpose and I it was served.
SPEAKER_04Oh, okay. That's what's up. Uh yeah, I like this episode, but I'll talk to y'all. Thank you again.
SPEAKER_08Tell us from the jail. So he's speaking with so how is it when you have like a um uh uh physically or or mentally imp uh impaired uh cellmate? Is it like a a certain kind of you know, cell you in, or is it just a regular cell?
SPEAKER_01Regular. It was just a regular cell. Yeah, it was a regular cell. They really don't get no extra treatment. Um they don't, they, they don't get no extra treatment. If you're in a wheelchair, if you're in this, like you're still you still gotta go to count. You still gotta stand up for jobs.
SPEAKER_10I gotta rebuttal that though. I gotta rebuttal for the men, the people that's handicapped and being blind is a disability. You have a handicap cell. We have like four handicapped cells on the block. They got they got a handicapped shower. I'm quite sure they got one for the wheel.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, behind the fence they did. Behind the fence, they did have um.
SPEAKER_10Like they got a shower that's way better than like you could pull the joint, you can sit down in there, and you could just be spraying the shit all on you. But then they got the handicapped cells too. They got certain little like little things for them to that that a regular cell don't got that we fully capable, so they got that for the men.
SPEAKER_01They had that in in in Hazleton. I did see that. Like they had that the bigger room and the handicapped cell, stuff like that. But um, and but in in the camp, I didn't I didn't see that in the camp. Like there was no um, yeah, no. Uh they might have just been on the first floor. Mind you, Lexitan, it was bad.
SPEAKER_10We didn't even have AC. But you know, Lexitan is a medical facility.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but we we were but the camp, the satellite camp is no. We didn't have, it was hot. There was no AC in that entire building. The summertime, it was hot.
SPEAKER_08In abundance hot, hot. Let me ask you another question because he always talks about this, like the uh just like the the cooking aspect. Um cooking chi's and no you can't cook, you don't make cheat cheese? No, I do not make cheese in the fed.
SPEAKER_01They do. They made them um potato logs, potato, but but that's better than the cheat cheese. Stop.
SPEAKER_08Money said she can cook.
SPEAKER_10Well, I'm maybe I'm confused about what the uh they was making um calling chat and over chips, but don't nobody make cheat cheese in the fed. Yeah, they might make some noodles and put stuff like that. Yeah, we got microwave. Yeah, y'all make real meal.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but they're frying chicken in the microwave.
SPEAKER_10Like we we got microwave, but you don't got that in the state.
SPEAKER_01Oh wow vegetables work, they're cooking eggs on iron, like we have iron stuff like that.
SPEAKER_10Y'all poof stuff in there like y'all they'd be poof. It's not poof. It's called boof. Boof. What's that booth? If you're gonna say it, get the word right. What is booth? Like if you're working in veggie prep, y'all ain't allowed to bring onions and shit out. Or you might go some guards be thorough, like, yo, you could bring two and two out, that's it.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_10No, no, boofing is putting a bell pepper in between your ass's cheeks. Yeah, they was doing all that.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah, we was, yeah, yeah, we was, yep, yep, we was doing all of that. So I had a stigma of gaining weight. Okay, I was scared to gain weight in prison. So if you would see my prison picture, it wouldn't be like what today. I was so tiny. I stayed small my entire bed. I needed to give myself some room to come out here and gain some weight. So I was scared to eat a lot of things that people ate, like cheat cheese and potato. I was scared to eat that stuff because I was just didn't want to blow up. Like women went to prison and got big.
SPEAKER_10Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And I was like, yeah, no, that ain't gonna be my story.
SPEAKER_10You don't have a lot of women on the yard working out. Because in the men's joint, every time you go to rec yard, there's 40 niggas over there doing burbies, another 30 over here in the weight pit. There's 25 running the track at the same time. Not at all. It's just a goddamn training circus out there. So women don't do that.
SPEAKER_01No, I mean you have your few that does that get up and yeah, but the out of the whole you the whole prison? Yeah, yeah, no.
SPEAKER_08There's a bunch of heavy Chevy's in there then. Yeah. Take this call. Tell us from the jails. Who are you speaking with?
SPEAKER_05I saw Lake I'm a dual mollet.
SPEAKER_08I'm like slimes going on. Do it.
SPEAKER_05Nah, no, I'm dealing.
SPEAKER_08I'm doing good. I'm dealing. What's going on? Were you calling from a dude Mollet?
SPEAKER_05Oh man, you already know. Man, it's all great.
SPEAKER_10It's a mess.
SPEAKER_05Hey, yo, I got I got a question for the lady though, man. How you doing? I came on a little bit late. I was wondering what jail she was at and why she was in jail.
SPEAKER_10She right here, she can hear you talking, bro.
SPEAKER_01I was in uh I did jail time in Allentown, I did FDC Philly, I did Aldison, I did West Virginia Hazleton, and I did Lexitan at Wood in Lexitan, Kentucky. And I was in for drug conspiracy and um wire fraud, wire fraud conspiracy. Man, I know that's why I'm free today, and I'm out here just trying to update our youth. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I always don't our worst enemy.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I agree.
SPEAKER_05All right, one more question. All right, there's no uh you said you're gonna jail and all that. So you go through that was down, you know, the wrong road. So do you think people at least they've been out the job like you know for a long time while we were in the jail and all that? I think they be playing with their life, like they don't they're not really on it. Certain people, certain certain people that we might have been hanging around before we went to incarcerated. And then when we come home, they still want the same exact thing. How do you handle I I agree?
SPEAKER_01I agree. That was um a hard adjustment as as well because I felt like I owed people something when I came home because so many people were there for me and supportive. So when I came home, I Out like our old people stuff. So I'm trying to play catch up. Like, I gotta show up for this person, I gotta show up for that person. And then finally, I just got to realization like I have to be selfish, even though like I was away, and people might look at that as being selfish. But when you have so much clarity inside there and you're away from a lot of distraction, your mentality is different. You got a game plan, you coming out with so so so many goals, and it's so easy to get like off track. So I did have to separate uh myself from some friends that I had for all my life. Like it was hard for me to kind of separate myself, but I felt like they were still stuck, they were still stuck in the same pattern, this thing, gossiping, the same stuff, and I had to separate, and it was hard, but at the end of the day, I had to think about me and my daughter.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, that's what I'm doing, that's what I'm going through right now.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, just gotta just stay focused, and um, you gotta just, you know, to first you gotta realize that you don't want to know about anything, and you just gotta just um stay focused on those goals that you had prior to getting out here.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, man. Thanks for calling. I appreciate you, man.
SPEAKER_05I appreciate y'all, man. Take care.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, man. You know, because I was just sitting here thinking, like, you know, uh the effects of jail. We always talk about the effects of jail. Jail doesn't always just affect the person who's incarcerated. It has an effect on the person who uh children, you know, significant others, you know, parents, all these different things uh uh peep and people are affected by by prison. Um say this call. Tell us from the jail, so you're speaking with so uh the advice to the people out here and knowing because you you experienced it. So you saw the effects not only on yourself but everyone else around you. Uh your advice for the people out here who's breaking the law, what what would you say to them?
SPEAKER_10But I I would say to piggyback off your question, to Torfi, I want you to direct it towards the women more. Yes, yes, your advice for these women that think they got the or do have degrees and might slip up, and I want you to give it to them solely.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So someone always told me, like, we're like by the grace of God, not I. Like we're all one, one, one decision away from a bad decision that could end us, and like someone can drink and drive and then cause a homicide, and you didn't see that coming, but you know, something common that people do often drink and then not think they're gonna hurt somebody. It wasn't intentional. So um what I didn't get into is like I lost my brother, and you know, my stepfather passed away. I lost three aunts, and a cousin was murdered. Wow, and then my mother was diagnosed with cancer and died a year after I came home. So that was just a lot of grief that I had to deal with when I came home. I'm not coming home to my father no more. I'm not coming home to my brother, my cousins, my aunts, my one aunt who advocated for me my entire incarceration. She'd even get a chance to see me come home. So it was a lot of different grief that I had to deal with that affected me, and I wasn't able to grieve. Because if I grieve and cry too much, I'm on suicide watch. So the only time I get to grieve is in the shower. Um I I can't go to any funerals, so I don't know what that looks like. So I would just say that um like my mom always say, you gotta take life one day at a time. You can't look down on nobody else. You have to remain humble because when we're out here trying to be loyal to the fault, when we're that ride or die and we're doing all that, we're not thinking about the consequences that come along with that. So I just tell my young ladies, like that loyalty means nothing. Because when you locked up and you're doing that time, then people aren't there if they're no more. And I'm not saying snitch or this and that, but I'm just saying don't get yourself in situations where your back is against the wall and it's either you or them. Cause nine times out of ten, they're choosing you.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I tell people all the time, don't tell me what you're not gonna do until you're in a room and they're throwing football numbers at you. Because I don't want to hear that I ain't no snitch, I ain't never, you ain't never been in a room where they're caught through throwing football numbers at you and you're calculating, you're like, whatever. Because a lot of people in my case say they wouldn't, and as soon as they got in that room, they flipped. Because it was either them or or me. And they weren't doing that time.
SPEAKER_08Let me ask you a question. Do you do you have a uh personal problem with uh informants, rats, snitches, you know, or do you have a issue with those type people?
SPEAKER_01It's not that I have an issue, but I just feel as though like when you're caught up in that and you're the kingpin on a case or when you're this and that, like you know what that that would you what you sign up for.
SPEAKER_08Exactly.
SPEAKER_01And if you're going to um, you know, go out that way, like I don't feel as though you should take other people with you or at least kind of get them out the way. So I I I do, I I I don't really have respect, honestly, for people who go that route because I just feel as though like you knew what you were signing up for. And it's not even the football numbers, it's the letters too, because a lot of my co-defendants are looking at life.
SPEAKER_08Wow.
SPEAKER_01And um when they start saying all of that, then they feel like they gotta tell, they gotta give this up, they gotta give this up. But I just feel like they should not have. You know, I just really feel like like that was my thing with my friends. Like, I can't, I'm not giving up no one else that transported. Because at the end of the day, I gotta go down anyway. And I never wanted anyone in my circle to go down. Not even nobody who got money, nobody got nothing. And they asked all those questions. Did that person know that person know? Nobody knew because I didn't want nobody to go down because of a choice I made. And and one of us gotta do the time, so why? I don't want all of us to do the time.
SPEAKER_08Exactly. Let's take this call. Tell us from the jails who we're speaking with.
SPEAKER_06Right and see, what up this is.
SPEAKER_08What's up, man? What's going on, bro?
SPEAKER_06I just want to start it off by letting y'all know appreciate the truth y'all going on.
SPEAKER_08I appreciate that, man.
SPEAKER_06Love for y'all again for consistently giving us good concert at a lot of rate.
SPEAKER_08Appreciate that, man.
SPEAKER_06All right, now let me get this without some questions.
SPEAKER_01How you doing?
SPEAKER_06How you doing? Okay, now I want to ask you. Um when you came home, how long did it take you to get your control roller? Because it's like when we hear from different men, it gets hard for like coming home trying, you know, get back on track. I want to know, like, was it hard for you, or do you have a little help, or did you just get straight to it?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it wasn't hard for me. Um, honestly, I can just, you know, be honest, it wasn't hard. Um, I had a place to go. I had money um that I um, you know, saved. People, you know, looked out for me when I did come home. Um, getting a job honestly helped me because they had that um, you can't, if your felony was seven years older, they couldn't ask you. So by me doing time and getting sentenced, that's why it don't pop up. Yeah, it didn't pop up. And then federal charge hardly ever pop up anyway, because you know, when they do the background check, if they're not doing uh the extra federal check, it don't come up. So it wasn't hard for me to get an employment or anything. So I like I said, my adjustment was more mental than anything, just being back out here, being getting adjusted to the language. When I came home, everybody was saying the word weird. You're weird, you're this, and I didn't understand that. Like, I'm like, we didn't talk to each other like that. We just locked up, like that's fighting words. Like, so it was hard for me to get adjusted to the way people talk to each other, and I was just like, oh, this is this is an adjustment.
SPEAKER_08The new word everybody got is go yard now. They're like, like, but this go-yard bag, something that's why you hear a lot.
SPEAKER_01I'm like, yeah, but yeah, as a as a female, like I don't think I I honestly don't think it's hard for anybody nowadays because there's so many jobs and opportunity, they're looking for people, like they are begging people to work. And I have a brother right now and it just came home and he gets job offers like nothing. Wow, and um, it's just him staying committed to the jobs. But no, I think if you want it, I think there's a lot of places that are felon-friendly, and there's a lot of money and grants out there for felons that people don't even realize, like they get money to hire felons.
SPEAKER_06Wow, okay. Well, that's just other words up and down. But I got one more question. Yes, did you bring any like gentlemen home with you? Because you know, like sometimes you start it to be like getting inside with a side with people or can't get through the violence and too many people.
SPEAKER_01No, I don't think I did. I don't think I brought any home with me. Um, noise, it took me a while to adjust to noise. Um, because I was just around noise so much, I just wanted quiet and solitude. So it that did irritate me, like kind of like throw me off when um noise and stuff. But um, I think around like just my count time, my body just was naturally like I'm supposed to be somewhere. So it's four o'clock count, it's nine o'clock count. I think my body got adjusted to that. And getting up early to this day, I my body wakes up five o'clock in the morning, six o'clock in the morning, like I cannot sleep in. So I still like I feel like I brought that home with me, just that waking up early, going to bed early.
SPEAKER_02No, it's a good thing.
SPEAKER_01But other than that, no, no. I think my family, my friends and family just kept me connected so much to um outside world that I didn't come home with any prison habits.
SPEAKER_08All right, man. Appreciate you, man.
SPEAKER_01When I said that's one of the questions right here. Thank you for calling.
SPEAKER_08All right, thanks y'all for calling. Thank you. Uh thanks, man. Sorry for cutting you off. Uh, don't forget y'all 215-316-449-2. We'll take maybe one or two more calls and then we're gonna uh get up out of here. Um so you know, is it any advice, you know, that you have for you know, just anybody who's going through a hard time, uh struggling with life, struggling with, you know, finding whatever it is, have it, whatever their struggles are. Is any advice you may have for anyone out there that maybe listening to this uh the show?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, um I always say, you know, let's take this call, sorry.
SPEAKER_00Hello, how you doing?
SPEAKER_08Who are we speaking with?
SPEAKER_00Hey, my name's Abdina.
SPEAKER_08Hey, how you doing?
SPEAKER_00Oh, it's my best I'm watching it on uh video, but let me lower it down.
SPEAKER_03This is my husband.
SPEAKER_02This is the baby's in the back.
SPEAKER_00Oh, but no, um I just wanted to come on. Um thank you for the point about when you were you know, obviously I'm like, you know, support, you know, what's that you know, your friendship's relationship with the beans. And you know, part of it is you know how how did you come back home and stay connected or reconnect with those friends?
SPEAKER_01I would I would honestly say no. Like, first of all, she's um I want to uh thank you for going through my incarceration and and and and been with me. She rode with me my whole 10 years.
SPEAKER_06Wow.
SPEAKER_01Um, mind you, you know, we met in college and uh she she she came to Philly to see me, she came to Kentucky to see me. She you know, she she traveled, you know, to come and see me. So first of all, no, I would never take that from you. Um you you definitely was there. You show up for me to continuously from having something on my get on the road with the kids and just being there for me. There's times that I feel like I haven't been there for them. Like I missed vital important moments in our life. You know, so um not at all. I feel like I stayed connected by when I called, you guys picked up the phone for me. And when when I had a video visit, you got on the video when it was a visit and you can make it. You came to see me, and I just continue to stay connected. Birthdays, I would send cards, I would send emails, like I would stay connected and involved in our lives as much as I could.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So when I came home, it was just so easy to pick up.
SPEAKER_00I think it's just you worry about it as like, you know, even me. Like, was I there for your enough, or was everybody there for your love? Did she feel covered and supported? And I know you did. It's just, you know, it it's it's things in the back of your mind where you like kind of wish you could have been there with you, you know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, you know, you did a lot, and I love you for it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, love you too.
SPEAKER_01Well, thank you for it.
SPEAKER_00But no, I'm gonna I'm gonna let y'all go. This is definitely um I've been watching all the time, so I love you and keep shining your light.
SPEAKER_08All right, thanks, sis. Say this last word that's still online. But thank you for calling, appreciate you.
SPEAKER_01It's so yeah, like I was blessed and fortunate to have some great friends. Like, you know, not everybody can say that. That's not everybody's story. But I had I had a mother. First of all, I had a mom who said, as long as I got breath in my body, you ain't never gonna go without. And we gonna do this time one day at a time. And as soon as I hit the airport, she picked me up sick and all. She said, Babe, we walked this shit down.
SPEAKER_03Wow.
SPEAKER_01So, like, I was I was blessed, you know, and it just can't it just showed me, you know, to have a friend, you have to be a friend. So it showed me the type of person I was in people's lives for them to be able to still show up for me for 10 years of of my incarceration, still show up for me when I was down, and then when I hit the street, they still did not leave my side.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah, that's amazing. Now, um, once again, like no, I I was kind of even uh you know tap a little bit more into the uh the last message. If you have before we close out, uh if you have any last message you want to leave, and say this was your last podcast or your last minute up here talking, um, if you want to leave a message to your mother or your daughter or your loved ones, anyone out there who who who may be watching this, what message would you give to them? Message should I give to them as far as like not going down the path or just a message, like if you just want to just uh a personal message to those who love and care about you.
SPEAKER_01Oh, first I would just want to say, you know, thank you. Um I love you to all my family, um, loved ones. Even my sister, me and my older sister, you know, having a little issue right now. But you know, I love her. She definitely showed up for me my entire incarceration. I would never take that away from anyone that showed up and was there for me. And um, I just love the support when I'm down, when I I feel like I'm not doing enough or I should be doing more. They're right there encouraging me, picking me up. Like, look how far you came. Look at this, look at this, look at that, look at that. You overcame this, you overcame that. Like, you know, it's hard to bounce back, losing your mom, losing your anchor, losing your backbone. And I was still able to press through and write my book and finish my book and you know, and honor my mother. So I just want to just thank everyone who just continues to love on me unconditionally, continue to show up for me, support me, um, giving me a second chance. A lot of people have given me a second chance. They um I'm not defined by the choices that I made in the past. Yeah, I'm able to talk through them, I'm able to laugh at it today, but it doesn't define who I am as a person and my overall character. And um, just for anyone out there, like I said, like when in a situation and um your back is against the wall, just remain humble because it may seem like a uh some quick money, a fast way out, but all of that comes with some type of consequence, something may not end up in federal prison like I did, but it's gonna end up, it's gonna end up somewhere, you know. I always just say, just um stay the course. It's it's not easy, especially these times. It's hard, it's hard, it's hard. But I promise you, if you trust the process, you will come out on the other side alone. And you gotta have a faith. Whatever that looked like, whatever faith you have, you have to pull from it. Because in these times, we need our faith. You need we need our faith, and that's what got me through my time, my faith.
SPEAKER_08Well, I want to say uh thank you uh for coming on to the show, and I and I really appreciate you, you know, coming up here and sharing your story because uh it's not really easy to come up here. People think it's easy to come up here and speak or or talk about their past and so forth and so on. It's not really easy to do it. And you campaign you did, you did a hell of a job. You did, you know. I didn't need this is a this is for me, this is uh you know, one of the best interviews. Um and I want to say that you know, I want you to continue to push the envelope and continue to be positive, continue to do what you're doing, because after this, you may get a lot of people. A lot of young girls who watch our podcast who may be trending to go to jail and it may help them change their lives. So I want to say thank you for coming on to the show. Anything you want to say, young patience.
SPEAKER_10You see what she said, patience, man. Stay the course. That's the whole thing, man. Three seconds can change your life for the worse or for the best. That's it, man. Think about it a couple extra seconds, man. Pond on it a little bit and patience. Stay at it, stay diligent, man. Listen. Me telling you this, for me saying it, me. We're talking about black today. We talking about black right now, telling you this. If I'm telling you this, it's it's something good. Stay patient, man.
SPEAKER_01Stay patient. Yeah. And um, real quick, like someone who finds herself in a situation like that right now, who might be fighting a case, maybe out on pretrial release or looking at time, just know that it's not the end. You know, people always say, like, if you would have known you was gonna get this, this, and that. You know, people say, like, I wish I would have knew the future. No, I probably would have hung it up and tried to commit the suicide if I would have knew all these things were gonna happen to me. I would have never thought I would have had the strength to get through it. So I'm just telling someone who's out there, who's going through it, who feel like giving up, feel like they lost hope, just to hold on. Because I promise you, my mom used to always say, Baby, I promise you, if you just make it through the next day, you're gonna be okay. And every day I made it through the next day, I was okay. I was okay. So that's just my little piece of advice. Just to hold on.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, and uh once again, y'all, we are on all platforms. Y'all can check us out. This episode will be available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, uh, Amazon Music. I think that's yeah, of course, on YouTube as well. Uh you can uh definitely uh the episode will be available normally, like two minutes after we're done, it'll be available as well. Um for me, I just want to say y'all just stay positive, stay humble, man, stay focused, man. And stay free, most importantly.
SPEAKER_01Stay free, yes. Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_08And thank you as well. Anything else you know before we get about? That's it. That's it.