Trauma Bonded at Work: Friendships, Dating & Relationships in Healthcare

In this episode of Banter at the Bedside, we dive into one of the most relatable topics in healthcare: relationships.

Healthcare workers spend 12+ hours together in high-stress environments, forming friendships that can feel deeper than most relationships outside the hospital. But what happens when those trauma-bonded friendships struggle to exist outside of work?

We talk about:

• Why hospital friendships form so quickly
• The reality of trauma bonding in healthcare
• Dating in healthcare – nurses, doctors, and coworkers
• The challenges of relationships with people outside medicine
• How night shift schedules affect friendships and family life
• What happens when coworkers date… or break up

From ICU trauma bonding to hospital gossip, night shift exhaustion, and navigating relationships both inside and outside medicine, this episode explores the unique social world of healthcare workers.

Whether you’re a nurse, physician, APP, RT, pharmacist, or anyone working in healthcare, you’ve probably experienced the strange dynamic of being incredibly close to coworkers while struggling to maintain relationships outside the hospital.

If you've ever trauma-bonded in a supply room at 3am, this episode is for you.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Where's my straw? If I forget one thing, someone dies.

SPEAKER_00 0:09

Hey everybody, it's Kaylee. Welcome back to Banter at the Bedside. Today's episode is going to be a little interesting. I think we're going to be talking all about relationships. So, how is it being in different relationships when you work in healthcare? That could mean, you know, romantic relationships, it could be friendships, it could be just your family, your loved ones. How does our schedule and our um trauma that we experience at work affect our personal lives and relationships? So as usual, this is just our opinion. We don't represent any organization. We're not giving any medical advice. And with me today, we have Abby, our other main co-host. Cody's returning again.

SPEAKER_04 0:53

Hey.

SPEAKER_00 0:54

And we have um a special guest. Our physician for today is Dr. Luis. So Luis, tell us a little bit about yourself.

SPEAKER_03 1:00

Well, good afternoon. Thank you for letting me come on to the podcast. Um, my name is Luis. Uh, just quickly, I am a third-year pulmonary critical care fellow, um, coming from California, so California boy. Um I've been multiple places to practice East Coast, West Coast, so some experience from a little bit of here, a little bit of there. So I'm happy to be here.

SPEAKER_05 1:23

Welcome. Welcome. And Luis is like the social man, not just, I mean, he is literally the social chair for the fellowship, but he is also like the one physician that is friends with every nurse on every unit. Everyone knows Luis.

SPEAKER_03 1:39

It's strategic, strategic.

SPEAKER_00 1:43

He's well liked. Um, not many people, I think, uh, make it into that category.

SPEAKER_03 1:49

I'm honored. I'm honored, guys.

SPEAKER_05 1:51

He's even been invited out for a few nursing drinking nights.

SPEAKER_03 1:56

The best. We shall not talk about those nights.

SPEAKER_00 2:00

No, well, that's what we're talking about. That is exactly what we're talking about now. So you worked night shift last night.

SPEAKER_03 2:08

Yes. Currently a little tired, but drinking a little bit of caffeine to wake me up. But yes.

SPEAKER_00 2:14

So you do days and nights?

SPEAKER_03 2:16

Yes, I do. Right? Like most of us.

SPEAKER_00 2:18

Cody, you work only night shift now, but you've done day shift day and night shift. Abby and I both rotate it through days and nights. So I think that like plays into what we're talking about today because you know, sometimes we're on a completely different schedule than the rest of the world, um, which can make it hard to, you know, have time outside of work with maybe a significant other friends. Do you guys find that that's been like hard for you, or is it just something you're so used to? Like what do you think?

SPEAKER_01 2:47

I'm kind of used to it. I feel like I'm kind of used to it now. And like the majority of my friends work night shift, so it's kind of and my family understands not to bother me.

SPEAKER_00 2:57

But I'm kind of you just keep your phone on do not disturb all the time, so I mean there's that. Yeah, we don't know if you're alive sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:07

Cody's like that person that will um get off work and then you don't hear from him until you get back to work, and I'm like, I was worried. Like, I didn't know if you were alive. He's like, no, I just, you know, I just stayed in my house for four days. I didn't look at my phone or anything. Like, must be nice. Must be nice.

SPEAKER_05 3:24

I what about I think I think like my outside of work friends are used to it. Um, I think that like my family's for the most part used to it. My friends that aren't in healthcare are used to it. What is shocking that I think is how much healthcare people, even though we all live it, like we all all are also aren't used to it with each other. Like it's like, dang, why why are we not on shift again together? Or why are our shifts exact opposite? And so it's like I find that a lot of my healthcare friends, like we have to plan things so far out, and then we end up waiting until the schedule is out to be like, we should do something. And then we look at the schedule and we're like, oh, we're exact opposite on everything. Like when you're off, I'm on, and when I'm off, you're on. But like we don't have the foresight to plan.

SPEAKER_00 4:22

Remember, uh like some of my friends and I would text each other when the schedule's up and be like, what weekends did you sign up for? I'm gonna sign up for the same ones so that we could see each other, obviously, at work and then have days off together too.

SPEAKER_04 4:33

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 4:35

I think my situation is a little different. I spend about 90% of the time at the hospital. The other 10%, it's either sleeping or at the gym. So, like all my friends are here at the hospital. That's that's since I moved here, this is all I really know. So um, I kind of like coming to work to talk and gossip with all my friends because that's all I have.

SPEAKER_05 4:59

But I think that that touches on the other thing. Like at work, like these conversations get so deep, so quick, so real. Like we have these deep relationships where we know each other's past trauma, current trauma, the ins and outs, we know each other's habits, like what coffee each other likes, how that when they want to take their lunch, all of that. And because we're at we're stuck at the hospital together for 12 hours. And so it's always interesting to me. Like, I talk to my cousin who's in just um tech, and I'll be like, Oh yeah, me and my coworkers were like talking about this at work, and she was like, You guys talk about that? Like, that's a no-no, like that's going straight to HR if we talked about that at my company. And I'm like, I don't know, run out of things to talk about at 2 a.m.

SPEAKER_00 5:55

HR. Mm-hmm. Interesting. Yeah, I think like work can be like my social time a lot of times. Not obviously, you never know because if you're busy, but like you said, with downtime or like we're trying to stay awake in the middle of the night, like what else are you gonna do?

SPEAKER_03 6:10

Right. I think Gabby brought up a good point. Like, it's more like when you come here, you say hi, hey, my name's Luis. Here's all my trauma, here's all my drama, you know, right up from the beginning. There's no formalities, there's no none of that. It's just because we already know that we're all going through the same thing. We don't need we can get past that 90% of BS and go straight down to the real stuff, you know, the real conversations.

SPEAKER_01 6:32

Yeah, yeah. And also because we're with each other for so long.

SPEAKER_00 6:37

And we work so it's like show me your updated dating profile. Let me see your pictures. Who have you been talking to? Show me the conversation.

SPEAKER_03 6:46

Does this work one?

SPEAKER_00 6:47

Yeah.

unknown 6:48

The date.

SPEAKER_03 6:52

I think Abby actually even sent me up on a date, you know, a blind date. I did. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:57

That's right. Yeah. So go ahead.

SPEAKER_05 7:03

Then he revealed to me after that he's really a single man at heart for now.

SPEAKER_00 7:10

Do you guys what do you guys think about dating or be uh being in a relationship with somebody else who is in the healthcare field?

SPEAKER_01 7:22

It's a no for me, but just say it's a no for me because I feel like especially if it's another nurse, the conversation always gets directed back to nursing, and I don't want to talk about that 24-7. I'll talk about it like with my friends for a little bit, but I don't want to talk about that 24-7. Like that can't be our only mutual grounds. But it would also be nice because they would understand our schedule. It's like double-edged sword.

SPEAKER_00 7:53

It is a double-edged sword. It is, it is dating a nurse, yes. But what about um like okay, so for me and Cody, we're nurses. What about like dating a physician? Cody as a nurse.

SPEAKER_01 8:06

I would never have that kind of look, but we're we're a pain in the ass.

SPEAKER_03 8:10

Don't do it.

SPEAKER_05 8:11

Pain in the ass. I went out with a couple doctors and it was a pain. What? It was what? It was a pain. I but I'm I'm also not at the end, I'm probably not the type of nurse that they wanted to date. Like they wanted like a quiet, probably more submissive, less loudmouthed nurse. Whereas like when we would talk and they would complain about a nurse, I'd be like, Well, you messed up and you did this wrong. And how dare you talk about another nurse that way? And then it was like, I expected the opposite too. Like if I complained about a physician, I expected them to be on my side and they'd be like, Well, the physician has to be blah blah blah blah.

SPEAKER_00 8:56

And I'd be like, All right, this so what you're saying, Abby, is that you you expected and felt like you should be right in every scenario. Yeah. As of why don't they understand that?

SPEAKER_05 9:08

Why don't they get that? That's why I married an IT guy. That's why I married a tech guy. Because he he listens. There you go.

SPEAKER_03 9:17

I think I can give you a perspective on both ends. And then um, I dated somebody who was actually a teacher. And um, as you guys know, some days are worse than others, right? Some days you just want to be left alone and just want to sit in your corner, watch memes all day, go to Instagram, scroll around, not be bothered. Um, she never understood that. No matter how much I would explain to her that this is how I decompress, how I need to just reset for possibly another day that can happen like this, you know. Um, she never understood that how long however many times I explained to her. So um there was that disconnect, and that kind of made a lot of friction where I just kind of almost started resenting her after a while. I was like, hey, leave me alone in this period, like I've told you multiple times. And now, um kind of fresh, kind of new, I am actually seeing, talking to a nurse, and uh and I've learned that this is actually working well because I understand her and she understands me. So they're and be everything in between, like, hey, we just want to have fun, we want to eat together, and then leave all that BS at home or at work, sorry, you know, and this is our time because we already know it's already limited, right? Working 12-13 hours a day. You know, you come home, you want to eat, hit the gym, maybe, you know, like cuddle together, kiss, make out, do all that good stuff, and then go to sleep. You don't want to talk about the BS. All right, and then you move on. So it's been working. We'll reveal it close to my heart for now. I was gonna say, yeah, I know Abby was already waiting for the text message from Avi.

SPEAKER_01 10:56

She wants the details.

SPEAKER_03 10:59

Do we know listeners? Keeping that close for now.

SPEAKER_05 11:02

Do we know them?

SPEAKER_03 11:03

No clue. It's weird, huh?

SPEAKER_05 11:05

We're gonna get zero.

SPEAKER_03 11:06

Yeah, she even goes to this hospital. I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 11:09

Is it I think I think that relationship can work of like two medical people, but I think both have to be on that same page. And in that, I think that same part of like being in medicine. I think so many of us for a while make it so much of our identity. And then as you kind of grow up and get through it, you realize I don't want healthcare to be my full identity. Like, I want to be more, I want to experience more. We experience so much death in the ICU that it's like I want more out of life, um, than just to be um healthcare worker. Like, I want to work out, I want to be a good wife, I want to do whatever. And so I think you have like both people have to be at that point. Otherwise, it can be very easy, as Cody said, to slip into the talk constantly talking about healthcare. But I will say it is hard if your significant other doesn't understand the need for decompression in that time. But that's why I have an hour commute, like I build in that decompression time so that when I get home I have more energy to talk with my husband and interact with him and because it's not always necessarily fair for me to constantly be like, well, I had a bad day at work, so I just need you to leave me alone.

SPEAKER_01 12:37

I see that. But I don't think I think also it's important for them to not everyone understands that like how mentally exhausting our job can be, and that if you go and you like do something physical, you can sleep and wake up and you're refreshed. But like mental exhaustion, you can especially working nights multiple days in a row, by the time you get off and you sleep, it takes days to recover. Trying to you've been trying to keep somebody alive for 12 hours a day, three or four days a week, you know, back to back to back, it can be taxing, and they people some people just don't understand that. They're like, You should get up, you should wake up, enjoy the day. It's like, nah, I want to get this news, but like a few times.

SPEAKER_00 13:17

I can't. Yeah, I have to lay here and be hung over from my job.

SPEAKER_03 13:23

And I'm I'm very much a gym goer. That's how I decompress both mentally and physically. So they understand that they have to understand if I'm going to the gym at 2 a.m. in the morning, it's for my physical health and my sleep.

SPEAKER_01 13:39

Give me an S some S C D's and a sacred whore, I'm good to go.

SPEAKER_00 13:45

We need to come turn you every two hours.

SPEAKER_05 13:49

Just leave me alone over here, okay?

SPEAKER_01 13:52

Leave me alone.

SPEAKER_00 13:58

Oh, that's good. Yeah, I think um just because I've had the the 12 hour shift late schedules for so long, like the people that I've been friends with for a long time, like it's I think they're used to it, everybody knows. And the flip side of that is that you do have, you know, three or four days, full days off in the week if you're working like a like a normal nursing schedule. So it it can be hard sometimes with certain things, but it can also be better sometimes because it's like, well, I could meet you anytime that day because I'm not working from eight to five. So like if you're off or we could meet for lunch, like sometimes it does make it nice, but um it's just they have to align. I think it's harder for like like for holidays and things. I felt like sometimes in my family the aunts and uncles and grandparents couldn't understand that if I worked a night shift, I didn't want to just sleep in the car or and then come up and try to be fested and participate in a family gathering. Um But they got used to it, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 14:59

Especially when your shifts fall on like a weekend and everyone is generally off, but you're not off. It's like I can't partake in that. You just stay up for a little bit and function.

SPEAKER_00 15:11

Yeah, or it's like the the two-week note is hey, we're doing this, so make sure you ask off of work. I'm like, boo, I signed up for that six months ago. Like, but I'll I'll try to find somebody to switch so I can be all Saturday. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_03 15:23

So I'm I'm part of a big like big Mexican family and I have friends. I can tell them a hundred times, hey, I'm working weeks or week working nights this week, and they'll still call me, you know, in the middle of the day, they don't care. Yeah, they're just calling me, calling me, like, wake up, you know. It's fine. I kind of love that about them, but yeah.

SPEAKER_05 15:44

Yeah. My family asks for my schedule so they see it, and then they'll still call me. Yeah, they'll be like, Are you working? And I'm like, Well, I send you my schedule every month, but my pa my dad and my um stepmom do actually look at it, but everyone else just gets it and then they're like, Are you working? And I'm like, What's what's the point?

SPEAKER_03 16:07

They have woken me up on my shifts before though, when I don't hear my alarm. So sometimes probably to my yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:14

Sometimes that's a positive.

SPEAKER_03 16:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:16

Um, so you we talked about like it the positives or negatives of dating somebody else in healthcare, but what do you think about dating somebody you actually work with?

SPEAKER_05 16:31

Someone's gotta stay silent apparently during this. Should have given us a heads up. We could have changed the topic.

SPEAKER_00 16:37

I'd say if um I think I mean I've worked with husband and wife couples um that were I've I've worked with a couple where the husband was a doctor and the wife was a nurse on our floor, and I've worked with two doctors that they were husband and wife. Um I'm trying to think there were some RTs. So I've experienced it from the outside.

SPEAKER_05 16:56

Yeah, I I think it can work. Um what I get weary of is when they newly start dating. Um, and then when things don't work out, I think is where things go bad. Um, the most recent one that I I think is uh Tammy Lynn, as we've talked about before. Mm-hmm. Tammy. Tam Tammy. Tammy dating one of the most beloved nurses on our unit. And she's moved on to school. But I was just like, he knows that if he treats her badly, like he's gonna have to probably find a new unit. Like this is not going to go well for him. And to me, that's like, I don't know, it's such a risk. Like it's such a risk. Like, what are you going to do if you break up?

SPEAKER_00 17:53

Mm-hmm. What are you gonna do if you're at work and somebody's talking shit about them? Are you and they're maybe like, are you going to join in objective? Exactly. So I can't be objective over my friends. I couldn't imagine being objective over my boyfriend. I'm saying I couldn't be objective over somebody talking badly about one of my friends, much less somebody I was dating. I don't care what they did. You're wrong.

SPEAKER_04 18:23

You're most walk away. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 18:25

Yeah. I think it can work. Go ahead, Cody. No, I'm trying to have a thought.

SPEAKER_01 18:29

I don't it's like it could be nice because you know he's birthing a thought right now. Um it could be nice because you at least you know you have that person there, like especially if you work together, but then you would have to make it a point to separate and definitely take time apart so you're not together outside of work 24-7 in work. You're you I feel like you might could get sick of each other. Or not if people really like each other that much. I don't know if there's anybody out there I'd like that much, but Damn, Cody.

SPEAKER_04 19:04

Yeah, hard one.

SPEAKER_01 19:07

I like to have some alone time.

SPEAKER_00 19:09

I like I when I was married, I would not have ever wanted to work with my spouse. So I'd be like, it's too much time together. That's not like because of them, it's just like this is my time with my friends.

SPEAKER_05 19:23

Well, and to work, but like I get the convenience. I get the convenience aspect, and I get the like, like they're there. You're with them so much, it's so easy to form such a quick, tight bond. Like like Louise said, like we jump from from zero to like a hundred, like we all know that we're in healthcare for a reason because we're all probably a little up. Um, so we can jump straight to that together and have these conversations. So you get to know them on a deeper level than if you were dating in the outside world. But I don't know. As a woman, the the like one doctor I went on some dates with and we were in the same hospital, just like seeing him interact with the other nurses. I was instantly like, can't do this. Why? Like jealousy. I feel like you were just like so.

SPEAKER_03 20:23

Sounds like you're the problem. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 20:25

Why are you talking to her? Why are you talking to her? Exactly. Wow, you really interrupt. Yeah. Why'd you ask her? Why would you ask me to do that? You don't work on my hand. Why'd you bring them up? Not even your unit, Abby. I was aware of not him. He was in that he was he was family medicine on an OVGYN rotation. I was nowhere near that unit, but I was like, what the f is happening here? We went on like three dates.

SPEAKER_02 21:04

Oh my god, Abby.

SPEAKER_05 21:05

I know I had a problem.

SPEAKER_03 21:08

Just wear, you should just wear a red flag.

SPEAKER_00 21:11

That's why I wear the red lips, okay?

SPEAKER_03 21:13

There you go, okay.

SPEAKER_00 21:15

Yeah, you want to talk about red flags. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 21:19

Oh yeah. So I guess for for me, well, um being a fellow, you know, I get tossed around in multiple units all the time, right? I'm sometimes not even in the same hospital. Um, so I'll be the MICU, CICU, NSICU, CICU. So you truly I've every four weeks, it's uh new life for me, basically. You know, so we're not always working with the same nurses, same RTs, everybody's different all the time. So um I think I can't comment too much of how you guys are saying that if you're still in the same unit all the time, you know how you guys work, um and you're seeing the same people over and over and um I think that'd be a little difficult too, you know. But uh being a fellow is a little different experience.

SPEAKER_05 22:05

Well, and that's why we have you here to share. So what you're saying is nurses should date doctors, should date fellows.

SPEAKER_02 22:14

Not opposed to I know we'll make minimum wage right now, but we won't forever, okay? Promise.

SPEAKER_05 22:22

True. Damn, I missed my opportunity. Family medicine was really going to break that money.

SPEAKER_03 22:29

I should text them.

SPEAKER_00 22:32

You need to find somebody that's gonna go and deposit surgery. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 22:36

That's where it's uh make sure they don't get to see because then they'll be rich. They'll take years and and they take your own income too.

SPEAKER_05 22:43

Well, so then speaking kind of on relationships and friendships, though, I find that it's hard for some of my like how do you deal with the closeness that you do have with other nurses? So there is no jealousy like me.

SPEAKER_03 23:01

Your special case, Addy. For me, I'm just I'm truly just myself all the time. Like I don't I'm not I don't act different with anybody in the hospital, and I hope you guys appreciate that of me, and also and I feel like it's been working, so why change it up? And it's easy because it's literally just me being me.

SPEAKER_05 23:22

Yeah, that's a good way to look at it. Do you feel like does and this is like for everyone? Do you feel like the closeness of the friendships at the hospital can interfere with some of the outside relationships? Because maybe they don't understand what we went through that day.

SPEAKER_03 23:38

Well, I I definitely under know that everybody in the hospital understands more of what we go through, you know, obviously. But those relationships outside the hospital, it's nice to have a non-medical perspective on things. You know, I'll I'll bring up something I was like, hey, you think I'm being dramatic or weird, and they'll be like, even though all three of three of you guys can say, Yeah, yeah, that's just you're correct all the time, and then my non-medical friend will give me that that perspective like, man, you're being dramatic, you know, calm down. It could be something simple. So I really you keep them close so you understand if you're acting crazy. It might not be crazy in the medical world, but in the reality and the real world, um you might be acting crazy, you know. So yeah, I very I very appreciate them.

SPEAKER_00 24:22

Stay a little grounded, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:24

Because you know we can get we can spiral. You all we all know that, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 24:28

Not me. I've never done it. So grounded. So grounded. So humble I've been in therapy once a week for five years. I'm like, I just got in therapy to deal with that. No.

SPEAKER_02 24:44

My therapist quit on me, you know.

SPEAKER_01 24:46

I went to therapy one day and I was scared.

SPEAKER_02 24:51

I actually won. I beat the therapist, you know.

SPEAKER_05 24:54

So I'm like, okay, well, you're like, you're good. Yeah, you know what's funny with my therapist, though, is I'm like, did I gonna go on star in therapy today? Did I do a good job?

SPEAKER_02 25:06

Oh my god. The reassurance you need.

SPEAKER_00 25:10

They're like, we're gonna put I'm gonna put that in the pile.

SPEAKER_02 25:14

Needs constant reassurance.

SPEAKER_00 25:18

But like, yes, you are very good, girl. Oh gosh. I I do think it makes it hard sometimes, um, like with friends or whoever, when they're talking about like their bad day at work. And and it was a bad day for them, and they they should be able to vent about it. And I'm just like, ooh, I wish that my bad day was having to answer too many emails, which I don't I don't ever want to do anything like that. But I do think it's hard sometimes, but I think that's why it's nice to have that, like you said, different perspectives on things. And um sometimes it can make you more grateful for your own job. But I do find myself sometimes having to struggle to be empathetic to people. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:02

Because you left that all at work, yeah. They can only work a 12-hour shift with us to see what we do through.

SPEAKER_05 26:09

Then they might I think it's the decision fatigue that people don't get really for us. Like all of the micro decisions that we make, even and then coming home, and it's like, I really don't like I know you made decisions, but my decisions were life and death, so I really don't want to decide dinner. I'll eat whatever you put in front of me. And that was one that was one thing the doctors that I dated and I struggled with was neither one of us could make a decision on what to eat.

SPEAKER_03 26:41

Chicken cut.

SPEAKER_05 26:43

Yeah, that's really what we ate. I love a chicken nuggy. I should have worn my chicken nuggy shirt with my heart.

SPEAKER_00 26:49

Yeah, like I won't complain and I will just do it whatever you tell me.

SPEAKER_03 26:53

That's about it. Thank you, Kaylee. You bring a big point up. It life got a lot easier once I realized that um our capacity to handle with bad things, as you say, drama, much higher than the regular person. You know, they they hit a limit quickly and while we still have a lot of reserve. I I understood that I was like, here, this is actually a truly bad day for you. I I get it. You know, life got easier. You just move on. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:20

Instead of being it, because I used to be the same way. I was like, really? Because did you intubate this 95-year-old man? You know, like, really? I used to do that too. You run those scenarios in your head, but they just say, like, oh, this was a really bad day for them, I feel bad for them, and that's it. You move on.

SPEAKER_01 27:34

They don't understand how we're like spazzing out about something. Like when you if you order food and they forget a straw and it's like, where's my straw? If I forget one thing, someone dies. You could have put my straw in the bag.

unknown 27:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:47

When no one dies. It's not that serious, but it is that serious.

SPEAKER_05 27:54

Serious to me. I can't function and save a life without the straw. I know. I will say that I will crash out when the nurses order food and no one gets me into iCoke. Or things like that.

SPEAKER_03 28:07

A fridge cigarette?

SPEAKER_05 28:08

Yeah. Give me my fridge thing. But how since we have, yeah, I'm an NP, Louise is a physician. How do you think that crosses like relationships, friendships cross between providers and nurses?

SPEAKER_03 28:26

You know, we as we work together, all of us work together, you know. I've we I've I've respected especially the experience, you know. We were coming onto somebody's home unit and um they have a lot more experience and I I I feel like I'm very respectful to the experience of somebody else. Even if they don't have um you know, yeah, I went to med school, whatever, you know, you went to uh um MP school or you know, full experience between working with um APPs, you know, like we feel like most of us, I feel like we come onto the unit knowing that man, they have so much more experience than us, and even even if they're not um they have different education than us, you have to respect that experience always. I I think we've been doing a pretty good job of it, and we I I know I've asked you plenty of times, hey, how do you do this thing with a balloon or impella? You know, help me. I don't know what what I'm looking at here, you know. Or even ask the nurses, like if it's not my home unit, I might be better in the Mickey U, but in the CICU, there's certain caveats, you know, and it has to be changed. And the nurses have seen this in and out for days, for years. You know, asking them is my go-to.

SPEAKER_05 29:38

Yeah. I I don't I think that's kind of why I've asked you to join, because I think that you do a really good job of like being friends with everyone and not really letting the different titles kind of get in the way. Um I do I do sometimes feel like there have been times in the past, I think especially when I first started, that there were some nurses that were like my friends, but then I started to feel more like a novelty to them. Like, or there was like an expectation that because we were friends, I should order certain things that was not what was in the best interest of the patient. And that was that was difficult. Um, like it was the well, if you were my friend, you would, you know, you would do this. And yeah. And that's gonna be that sometimes pissed me off.

SPEAKER_00 30:38

Like they're not trying they're trying to take advantage of you. That's yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:42

Or I felt like you just my friend, so your job is easier.

SPEAKER_05 30:47

Yeah. And I I think sometimes too, I felt like I was invited, and they'd be like, Well, we like I remember there was one time, well, we have a provider coming to our party because I was going and it was like, Well, is that the only reason you invited me? Like, you don't want me here because of like my fun, bubbly personality. That's apparently a red flag.

SPEAKER_01 31:11

Um just a meet and greet with different like what in the world, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:15

Like I didn't you have like certain slots you have to fill. Like, what's happening?

SPEAKER_01 31:20

Fab nurses, two in peace, doctor, a respiratory therapist.

SPEAKER_05 31:25

Yeah, but that's kind of like what it felt like. Um, so I was just wondering, Louise, if you've like ever experienced that or had that, like the you know, aren't we friends? Um, could you like could you order this?

SPEAKER_03 31:39

Well, I you know, obviously, if other people have asked me, hey, can you send me these antibiotics? I think I'll have UTI, you know? And like I have, and then Well, yeah, hell yeah. Yeah, things like that. Like, and I get it. And it was I was like, what are your symptoms? Yeah, or like I got an STD, you know, I'll I'll refill your Zabby, don't worry. Yeah, I got you.

unknown 32:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 32:04

But you know, like of course, and then we we trust other people in healthcare, and we want to um like I know what you you know what a UTI feels like, you know, or like you um and we know we're not gonna you're not gonna be abusing and selling these antibiotics on the streets or something like that, you know, and your name's not gonna be on it. You never know. You can probably get good car hard cash behind the hospital or something, but um, we trust you, and um, but the train that trust and feeling what how you were saying, Abby, like where you start feeling like you feel like you're feeling a quota just for somebody, then or just because or you're taking it beginning to take it advantage, um, that's when you're like, hmm, this starts straining your friendship a little bit. Uh we need to take care of each other as much as we can because nobody else will. So um, I understand that part, but at the same time, don't take advantage of it.

SPEAKER_05 32:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:56

I mean, that's different if you're like, you wanna let me keep this fully?

SPEAKER_00 33:05

But if you're like, no, go ahead and do it, I'll be like, you know.

SPEAKER_01 33:09

This patient's walking around, but they're annoying me. Can we intimate? Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 33:15

Well, I think for uh, I remember there was one of the nurses, the someone else had said something like, Well, she gets what she wants because she's Abby's friend. And whatever she wants, Abby will order for her. And she was like, Abby gives me nothing. Abby gives me less than what you guys get. And I was like, Yeah, I mean, that's kind of like true, because I don't like I don't want my friends to think, like, I don't want there to be any question of like, well, we only did this because we're friends, because like we're good friends. Like, I ordered ketamine for this patient, so like, nah, you're going to deal with the crazy patient a lot longer than someone else might. But it is just something that I've experienced that's just kind of made me a little bit more self-conscious or a little bit more reserved with some of my friendships on the unit for a while.

SPEAKER_00 34:10

That makes sense. Yeah, I could see that. I think that would be tough. I mean, I think Cody could probably and I could also relate a little bit just because for some periods of our career we were in like a management position. Mm-hmm. You know, and being friends with people who are your staff or whatever can be nuanced, like you said.

SPEAKER_01 34:27

Yeah, so I'm gonna say it was fun, like you're working because for me I was a traveler, and then I went into a management position. And I was a traveler at that um hospital for two years, and I've obviously made friends. I can't then you transition from their peer to their superior and everyone else. I can't just I'm just not gonna stop being your friend. And so people I'm not super close with. I never showed favoritism, but it always came off as favoritism to people who weren't my close friends. But I'm I'm pretty sure my friends could vouch for me. I have a would also have a higher expectation of my friends. Like don't put me in a situation where I'm gonna get in trouble. But also my friends would look out for me in a sense and they would do what they have to do or supposed to do without me having to get get on them and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_04 35:25

Abby D over here. I mean Abby okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:28

I was gonna say Abby, I don't think Abby shows favoritism because if we're working together and she's busy, she don't never come just come sit and talk with me. She's just over there doing her work all the time, like ignoring me. So thanks for that. I guess you just don't care about me anymore.

SPEAKER_04 35:43

Toxic. Toxic.

SPEAKER_00 35:45

Often great patient care.

SPEAKER_04 35:49

Abandoned.

SPEAKER_00 35:49

Damn. Well, what about like you know, like when you are friends with somebody that you work with and maybe something does happen and you have a falling out, and then you still have to work with them. Sometimes that's tougher than a breakup. Yeah. Well, it's just like a breakup. People dating on the unit.

SPEAKER_01 36:10

Because I can be cordial and professional and and keep you at arm's length and just know where I stand with you as a person. As a colleague, I'll be professional as a outside of work person or personal on a personal level, arm's length.

SPEAKER_05 36:22

I when I I just am like I've never had like a big blow-up like friend breakup. Even I'm just slowly fade into the distance, and we'll just distancely oh hi, how's things? Okay, bye. Like I can be cordial on the unit.

SPEAKER_00 36:41

You limit bad when it happens. You feel like mom and dad are fighting, mom and dad about divorce, and now we're all like you limit your interaction. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 36:50

What were you going to ask, Louise?

SPEAKER_03 36:51

Oh, I was gonna say, do you ever feel like you sometimes order certain things to tailor to certain personalities, not just your friends, but certain personalities.

SPEAKER_05 37:02

No, including attendings. Well, yeah, but that's different. That's different. Like, I mean, I at the end of it, like, I I I'm an APP. Like, at if if the attending wants to order something because that's what they prefer to order, they want albuterol on every patient. Like, I can't say no. Um I can't say no. Um will I will I DC something once they're off shift that I don't think the patient needs because it's just how they order things. Yeah, I mean, but I yeah. I mean with the attendings, it's hard for me to say because I don't have as much freedom in that. Um unless I think it's truly, truly harming a patient. And then we'll have words. But I find most of the attendings don't want to have words with me.

SPEAKER_03 38:03

Why? You're are you like scary or something?

SPEAKER_05 38:05

Uh apparently I'm super intimidating.

SPEAKER_03 38:08

It's a red flags left and right for you, huh?

SPEAKER_00 38:12

Abby hat dreamed to death. You're probably intimidating, they're just intimidated. That's their own problem.

SPEAKER_01 38:20

You're intimidating.

SPEAKER_05 38:21

Well, then wasn't intimidated by you, obviously. Cody and I's first interaction was not the most fun.

SPEAKER_00 38:29

Each of them, each of them has separately told me about this, and I'm like, neither one of y'all know it, but you will be good. You'll be friends.

SPEAKER_01 38:36

And here we sit. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:40

So it tickled me. I was like, oh no, he didn't say that to Abby.

SPEAKER_05 38:49

But I don't know if he was expecting the five five two little nurse practitioner to clap right down.

SPEAKER_04 38:56

Oh god, it tickled me so good.

SPEAKER_05 38:59

How about that?

SPEAKER_03 39:01

I was a little intimidated at the beginning. By me scared little first year fellow by all the APPs.

SPEAKER_00 39:07

Oh that's well, they're just smart and they work there all the time. They're just on it.

SPEAKER_01 39:13

Yeah, yeah, we're smart.

SPEAKER_05 39:14

But I no, I don't cater. I really try not to cater to who is there. Um I really don't think that I do. Are there do I have to both being kind of and you're kind of in the middle as a fellow like I am? Um, there are certain attendings and certain nurses that I know I have to like be more vigilant with, I think is more what I cater to. Like what I have to turn up and down. Like I'm still going to order the labs that I want trended, but there's some nurses that I have to. Hey, did we get that BMP yet? Remember we talked? No? Okay, could we get it now?

SPEAKER_00 39:58

Yeah. I mean, there there is um a provider that I love that doesn't work there anymore, but it's like three hours later, I'm like, hey, you gotta order that? Oh my god. Yes. And I'm like, I already knew. I already knew.

SPEAKER_02 40:11

And we appreciate those reminders, okay? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:15

Oh yeah, yeah. I mean, it's just because they got busy or talking or whatever. Yeah. Um so I think sometimes it's helpful if you have a good relationship with them, maybe outside of work or on a social level, because you do kind of work better together, honestly. You know that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_03 40:30

So it's easier. Like I've seen you drunk as hell, you know. Let's put a fully in this mat.

SPEAKER_05 40:40

I've seen him dance on a table.

SPEAKER_04 40:42

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_05 40:43

Go go intubate them now.

SPEAKER_04 40:48

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 40:49

It's so funny to reconcile that with like them being at work in your professional mode.

SPEAKER_03 40:53

And it's like I saw you. I saw you.

SPEAKER_00 41:00

I don't know. I think we just it is trauma bonding. And I think about like, would I be like such good friends with some of you guys if we didn't work together? But I don't know, I just think like similar like you said, sort of similar personalities are like similar people that will get into healthcare and stuff like that. So I think that's we're sort of set up to get along and connect and be able to relate to each other a lot easier.

SPEAKER_01 41:25

Especially as I.

SPEAKER_05 41:26

Mm-hmm.

unknown 41:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 41:27

But I do think that there's some trauma bonding. But then it's also like in Cody, you might be able to speak to this, or even you, Louise, having worked on different coasts. But like when I left, I think sometimes I get saddened because looking back at like my nursing unit, um, or even like my nursing home and how close I was with some of them. But once that shared place is gone, so many of those friendships have moved like that season closed. Like we you try and you try, but once you kind of like don't know the players in the game anymore, um, it's hard to maintain sometimes. And it makes me sad. Um, and it's hard because it was like, man, for five years, like you were my work wife, and now I haven't seen you in person in two years. Like it's yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:25

And I was like, like I think about that. Like, if I left, like it makes me sad. Like, I don't want to lose my friendship. Not I think I would, but you're right. It it can make a difference, especially well, I mean you you commute, so I'm sure you probably it's hard. Yeah. I mean, I mean it's and seeing you outside of work is hard. Yeah, because we talk all the time, we text all the time, and then we work together, but it just depends and then for me, like fortunately, I've been able I've fortunately been able to keep a lot of the friendships that I've made over the the course of being a nurse.

SPEAKER_01 43:03

But especially working in different states, it is kind of like I still talk to I have like people I talk to on a regular basis, but it's kind of hard to talk to everyone and get together with everyone, especially when you're living in another state and I don't go to that state regularly.

SPEAKER_05 43:19

So well, and then we have the June coming up when people graduate and move on. And I've had a number of fellows that I've been close with and they did and that's part of academics. Um, but for me, sometimes that's another aspect that's hard of like staying behind now, being the person that's staying behind. I spend three years helping you grow and getting to watch you grow and become an amazing attendee, and then you leave, and the text and the Snapchats and all of that happen for six months and then they fade out and It's always sad. I'm happy to see you guys go, but June does bring a bit of a bittersweetness for me every year.

SPEAKER_03 44:08

I feel like this this graduation that like my internal medicine graduation skin we were COVID, you know, two years of COVID in my internal medicine residency. So I didn't really get to meet in bond with all the nurses like I have here and all the people here at this hospital. So definitely in June when I leave, it's gonna be a big like dang, you know, leaving all my friends behind. All these good people I met. So but it's it's like Abby, like you said, every three years it's gotta be you're seeing new faces, new fellows.

SPEAKER_05 44:38

And then the next week here's my next group.

SPEAKER_03 44:42

It's like, oh man. I don't think I've been back to the CICU since like last year. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 44:48

You're coming soon though.

SPEAKER_00 44:49

Yeah, it's funny though, because people will leave and then they come back, maybe they come back and take a locum or like they go travel and then they come back, and it's like you could pick up right where you left off. Mm-hmm. Like they were never gone, you know.

SPEAKER_05 45:01

And then it's weird how some of them have like standing legacies. So, like uh Jessica, one of the fellows that left, and she's come back as a locums. But we Louise knows this. All of the providers call our patients of a certain age pat paps and mems, and we'll be like, Oh, it's just a cute little pap pap, and that's just because of Dr. Jessica. And she was like said to me one day, she's like, Y'all really gonna code Pat Pap? I'm like I'm sorry. Well, his wife wants me to code him, so yeah, I gotta code Pat Pap Jessica, and then I start coding him, and she goes, Man, you really coding Pat Pap in there. And it just became our thing. And it's like you have the standing legacy, and we have all these trinkets that all the fellows have given us over the years, so it's like we have pieces of them, but it is it's hard. Like, I think that's the other hard part about relationships and friendships in healthcare is um people do move on in that shared trauma.

SPEAKER_03 46:09

Especially, especially academics, you know.

SPEAKER_05 46:11

Yes, yeah, especially because you're training, but you're training fellows, you're training friends, nurses, different nurses, too. Even nurses, yes. Yeah, the nurses.

SPEAKER_03 46:21

I feel like I'm but the ducklings behind you, yeah, exactly. You have a bunch of ducklings behind you.

SPEAKER_00 46:26

And then they leave.

SPEAKER_05 46:31

So it's it's weird. Hospital relationships. We know each other's ins and outs, but and all that tea, all that tea. All that tea, we can't get off this phone call and you know the tea.

SPEAKER_04 46:46

A soap opera.

SPEAKER_00 46:48

Oh, it's yes. Like, did you hear about that person and in the Mickey? Like, no, I don't know anything. Please tell me. I never know anything, but I I was like, I wanna I wanna know. I just don't know anything until somebody tells me. I don't think I have three friends. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:07

It was really bad working at a smaller hospital because everybody knows everybody. So if you hear about Sansa, you're like, yeah. And it's like it just happened an hour ago.

SPEAKER_04 47:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:22

It's worse than high school.

SPEAKER_05 47:23

Yeah. I feel like we still I feel like our hospital, even though it's big, like at least in the critical care realm, I feel like news travels pretty fast. Like very I haven't heard it travels very fast. Well, uh this could we could talk about relationships and healthcare from different aspects for a while. But any final thought?

SPEAKER_03 47:46

We left it all out there.

SPEAKER_05 47:48

We'll have to do a follow-up episode on some of this, specifically, probably dating.

unknown 47:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:56

I want to get them. I want to hear about people who are happy to date us. Yeah. I want to be like, what's the worst thing? What's the best and worst thing about dating a nurse or somebody who works in the hospital? I mean, it's like you might think you're right. Okay, it's like I can't complain about anything to eat.

SPEAKER_02 48:13

That's true, but you don't have to date them to get that already, though. You can get that already not dating them.

SPEAKER_05 48:20

When are you saying, Louise? Are you saying they tell you I'm right all the time?

SPEAKER_02 48:24

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 48:27

I mean, you are right. I'm sorry, you are right all the time. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 48:31

She's not saying she's not right all the time.

SPEAKER_03 48:33

She's just saying she's never not wrong, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 48:34

I'm never wrong. Thank you, Cody. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 48:38

You're right. You're right. You know, you're right.

SPEAKER_05 48:40

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 48:41

Wrong, you're right.

SPEAKER_05 48:43

Well, this has been fun episode. Well, if you made it this far, make sure you like, follow, leave a comment. Tell us your hospital dating stories or friendship breakups. We want to hear that to you. We might share it on our follow-up episode. Otherwise, from all of us shift talkers here at Banter at the Bedside. Until next time. Bye.

SPEAKER_04 49:12

Step into the light where the stories come.