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Banter At The Bedside
Banter at the Bedside dives into the real stories of healthcare — the ones that happen behind the curtains, between shifts, and at the bedside. Hosted by frontline professionals, each episode brings together voices from across the healthcare spectrum to share their perspectives — from laughter in the breakroom to the moments that change everything. Whether you’re in scrubs or just curious about life inside the hospital, join us for honest, thoughtful, and sometimes hilarious conversations about what it really means to care for others.
Banter At The Bedside
Once a Nurse, Always a Nurse | Three Generations Reflect on Nursing
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What happens when you put more than 130 years of nursing experience around one table?
In this special episode of Banter at the Bedside, Abby is joined by her Nana, who has over 70 years connected to the nursing profession, and her Aunt Jennifer, a pediatric nurse turned healthcare attorney and risk manager. Together with Kaleigh, they explore how nursing has evolved across three generations—from starched white uniforms, nursing caps, and handwritten charts to electronic medical records, advanced practice providers, telemedicine, and AI.
Along the way, they share unforgettable stories from tuberculosis sanitariums, refugee camps in Thailand, pediatric intensive care, and modern critical care. They also discuss what has remained constant through every era: compassion, patient advocacy, teaching, and the privilege of caring for others.
Whether you're a student nurse, seasoned clinician, or simply curious about the history of healthcare, this conversation is a reminder that while medicine constantly changes, the heart of nursing never does.
As I've off always said, once a nurse, always a nurse. Depending on where you are, it doesn't make any difference.
SPEAKER_03Hey everybody, it's Kaylee. Welcome back to Banter at the Bedside. I'm so excited for today's episode. We have three generations of nurses that we're going to interview today. Decades upon decades of experience, knowledge, and just life to talk about. As always, this podcast is for entertainment purposes only. We are not giving any medical advice. Seek the advice of your own medical professional. These are our opinions. We don't represent any organization or entity. And with me today, we have Abby, our other main co-host. She's been a nurse practitioner in the ICU for eight years. Hello. Hi guys. And I'm Kayleigh. If you're returning, you've seen me. If not, I am an ICU nurse of 18 years. And we are joined today by Abby's Aunt Jennifer and her Nana. So Nana has been in healthcare now for 70 years plus. Everybody say hey to Nana. Nana, say hey. And then we have Jennifer who has been in the field for about 40 years now. Everybody say hey to Jennifer. Hello. This is gonna be a very special episode. I'm super excited. And I know that Abby's excited to have her family on. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I'm really excited for everyone to meet both of these wonderful women that really helped inspire me to join healthcare, especially Nana with nursing. I think the first time I told her I was like 15, and I just remember we were on the pontoon on the lake, which the lake is such a special place to our family. And I mentioned I was thinking about nursing, and I just remember she wrapped me in the biggest hug and kissed me on my cheek and was like, oh, thank goodness one of them's going to go into nursing. Because there are 22 grands or 23. 21, 21 grandkids. So my gosh. And then my my aunt Jennifer also, when it came time to pick colleges, was really instrumental in helping me pick the right college for my nursing career. And it set me on the right path to be where I am. So I'm so excited to have you guys here and for everyone to meet you. Yay.
SPEAKER_03Yay. Now, just to start off, you guys have known Abby, obviously, her whole life. What is it like seeing her progress through her career and climbing up the ladder for you, you know, as just a family member, but also somebody who has a background in healthcare?
SPEAKER_00It's not unexpected for me because Abby has always been very uh much in control of her life when she uh the fact that she has progressed in nursing. I'm very proud of her. I'm very happy for her. As I've off always said, once a nurse, always a nurse, depending on where you are, it doesn't make any difference. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it's been great to see Abby advance because actually the weirdest thing for me is seeing her advance as a nurse beyond what I was doing. And so her and her expertise, you know, become so profound, you know, through all of her hard work and everything. And that was that's been really fun to see because you, you know, it's just a common ground and you have common values, think about things the same way, et cetera, et cetera. But it's just really nice to see her uh committing to the profession and staying with it and uh and helping other people along the way.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I mean, I haven't known Abby for as long as y'all, obviously, but I feel like nobody's surprised. I'm not surprised when she comes back saying she's done she's doing another thing and now she's gonna do this. It's like, of course she is. She's just always doing something, can't stay, she has to stay busy. Yeah. I imagine she was a busy kid.
SPEAKER_00Well, and also Abby has a aunt on her mother's side who is also a nurse. Okay. So she's didn't have much choice. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. You know, Abby has spoke of both of you a lot when she talks about what got her into nursing. So I would love to hear, Nana, if you can give us, you know, your story. How'd you get into it? What was it like? What do you think about nurses now, if you have any opinions? I always have opinions as well.
SPEAKER_00But I my sister was the one who was who's two was two years older, and she got the information. And so then I looked at it, and at that time the nursing programs were all three-year programs. And then uh except for Marquette University, which we couldn't afford, my mother or I. And then uh Alverto went to a four-year program, and all I thought of at the time was I will be so old after four years. Even though three we went we went to school of 11 months of the year, you know, and plus whatever shifts you took. And so uh fortunately I was a day student the first two years, and then after that we started clinical, and the program I was in at Alverno wasn't a program of affiliation. They didn't have a hospital, but they did have a mental hospital, which is where we had our psychiatry. But otherwise, various hospitals in and around Milwaukee was where we would affiliate children's St. Joe's for our basic uh nursing clinical and OB at St. Joe's. So uh and then we went to Chicago for contagious disease nursing, which they probably don't do anymore. But that was a TB sanitarium and so it was all the program was such that they let touched any number of bases, either clinical, education, public health. And also we did a you know, month with the public health nurses in Milwaukee. So when you graduated from Alverno, you could spring off into any number of areas that you had the basics for. So, you know, you were on your way. And I f my first uh job was at the TB sanitarium in Chicago, uh, where I had been, and I went there because I could live in the nurse's storm. It was thirty dollars a month room, board, and laundry. Oh my gosh. Yeah. They couldn't afford not to go, you know, especially because I we didn't have any financial resources as such. My mother worked and took care of my grandma, my sister, and I. But I I loved it. And then uh we had tr 1,500 patients at MTS Municipal TV Sanitarium, and we did all the surgery for the patients plus supervise their care. So uh and then after that I got married, knew my husband for a year on an office and got married, and we've been married 68 years. That's amazing.
SPEAKER_05Didn't you when you were in nursing school though, didn't you have to live in the in the dorm, like supervised by the nuns?
SPEAKER_00But I I went to parochial school, so my experience with the nuns or the sisters was always great. The ones I had in grade school and in high school and in college, they were all very motivational toward us. It's not kind of like now you girls are just gonna get married and have families. No. They would emphasize the fact that you had a lot to offer and you better use it.
SPEAKER_05Well, and it was very immersive compared to later on, I think, too, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, and also our clinical experience, like I say, I could live at home my first two years for just the, you know, chemistry and biology and anatomy and all that. I then when we'd be at children's or at St. Joe's, we'd stay in the dorm there. You know, but it was all very supportive and good. And then and you know, then we wear white uniforms and white stockings. And I can remember one time we had knee highs then came in and s and my your dress usually came like to the middle of your leg and you weren't wearing scrubs or anything like that. So it was not part of the the practice. But uh you had to wear a hat, you had your cap, you know, and so consequently, even though my hair was long, most of the time it ended up in a ponytail because you weren't allowed to have your hair on your collar. And so, and also we weren't allowed to wear fingernail polish because sister said you can't have red fingernail polish on because the patient wakes up and thinks it's blood on your fingers. So consequently, I've never worn fingernail polish. I've never worn makeup because, you know, after being we had to wear a mask and had a gown outside every patient's room at MTS, and you put it on and go in and take care of that patient. But it was all I love, I actually loved it all.
SPEAKER_05How long were your clinicals when you were in college though? Weren't they super long? Like the whole day and then some?
SPEAKER_00Sure. Well, yes, that's right. And you'd have uh you go to our shift always was seven to noon, you had lunch, one to three you had class, three to seven you had you were back on the floor working. Or if you were nights, then you you know you also had to do evenings and nights. And so I pr actually when I began to practice I preferred evening work rather than baths. That's when we that's when we had to give everybody baths. But also I liked I worked had experience in the OR. But uh I decided one of the residents said, Oh, you'd make a great surgical nurse. And I said, I prefer my patients unanesthetized, because as you can tell, I like to I love it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I get my yapping from my nanas. So you so when you started working at the sanitori did you call it a sanatorium? No, sanitarium.
SPEAKER_00Sanitarium. You were able to board there. Well, it was there was a nurse's storm where we had lived as students, and so they were really glad when we came back. Like I said, I had my own room, went over to the hospital, had all my meals, you know, and nobody was allowed to come to the nurses' rooms. We had a very nice Mrs. Noyes, who was about four feet tall, was the house mother, and she was very strict. And so if you had guests, you had to take them into the living room. You were not taking them to your room or your dorm. But that was true about the nurse's dorm at any of the hospital children's St. Joe's or and and the nuns were all about you guys working. Well, that's right, supervising, teaching, checking on us, you know, making sure that our knees didn't show from those knee highs.
SPEAKER_03Can you imagine having to wear the white like press outfits, like skirts and a cap and stockings?
SPEAKER_01I couldn't keep it together.
SPEAKER_03I mean, I can imagine.
SPEAKER_05I'd wear I had to wear white bottoms. You had to wear white bottoms.
SPEAKER_03Having to wear white in the hospital, I think I mean who would ever come up with that?
SPEAKER_00Well, it's well it because the sterile environment was white, white, white. But like if you're working out on the floor, that's not sterile.
SPEAKER_03That's scary.
SPEAKER_01Right, but it gives Go ahead, Ann. It gives the sense of clean. Just like all hotels, it's white like right. Like you go into a hotel and expect white sheets because you can see that it's clean. Could I keep could I keep my stuff clean? No, I can't even keep my purple scrubs clean.
SPEAKER_03So the amount of coffee stains. But it wouldn't show a bleach stain. So there is so it is easier to bleach.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, exactly. Okay.
SPEAKER_03I think it's very interesting that she that Nana just loved working with all the TV patients. Like always having to wear the mask, the full get up. And like for us, when we started to have to do that during COVID, I mean, that was the that was compelled. A lot to get used to.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Well, it wasn't any big deal. You just you you know, it most of the thing remember all the gowns were cloth.
SPEAKER_05So yeah, you had a cloth gown, all the barriers, so cloth gown, cloth masks. They were all cloth. So it wasn't the papery, you know, kind of disposable things. It was all cloth.
SPEAKER_00And even they introduced paper sheets and stuff, it's kind of like, what is that? You know.
SPEAKER_01Can you imagine how much laundry? Yeah. Oh my god. Yeah. So much. But there's still when I worked in the my nursing home, uh, we had cloth gowns for our patients still, or for like uh sterile isolation gowns. They were still cloth. So some places still do it.
SPEAKER_03We had uh it wasn't cloth and it wasn't plastic. I think it was somewhere in between at the hospital I used to work at. They were reusable.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_05We had really thin yellow cloth isolation gowns when I was at children's, yeah.
SPEAKER_01So it was but yeah, and I like hearing when Nana talks to me about her time at the T B sanitarium because it's like we everyone freaked out so much in COVID, and it was like just kind of a normal thing for them because, like, you know, contagious disease was a rotation for her. And then with all of these advances in medicine, it's like, well, it's not really contagious disease rotation, it's just med search. Right what it became. Right. I just but I don't know if Aunt Jen wants to tell us a little bit about her path in healthcare too. Yes, please.
SPEAKER_05Mine started pretty early. I we have a picture of me with Nana's nursing cap on and my Snoopy and my stethoscope when I was about four or five years old. So it started pretty early. And it never changed. It never changed from there. I was always gonna be a nurse. It just and it was it's weird because I mean I went all through high school, everything was intended to be a nurse, and they, you know, even had a health careers class that, you know, we got CPR certified and did all this other stuff with our teacher who was an EMT, but also a teacher, and learned a ton of stuff from him. But it was always just I just knew that's what I was gonna do. It didn't, there was no question, there was never any thought of doing anything else. And and then it came very quickly before I even went to college. Well, I went to University of Wisconsin. I I knew that in fifth grade, she didn't like it very much. She wanted me to go to Alverno, or she wanted me to go to the only other the only other school I considered was St. Mary's of Notre Dame. But okay, I decided that I needed not only if I already knew what I was gonna do for a living, I was going to have the experience of going to the University of Wisconsin-Madison. So so when I dove into that, I knew uh by then also that I was gonna do pediatrics. I just decided I was going to. I I I'm trying to remember the name of the book I read, and it was by a nurse, and it was basically about cancer patients. And I thought I was gonna be taking care of pediatric cancer patients. That's what I thought I was going to do. And she constantly tried to talk me out of it because she was like, That's so sad. Why would you ever want to do that? And I said, and my theory on it was if I don't do it, who will? I mean, somebody's got to do it. And yeah, and I also wanted to be at the hospital that they sent patients to, not that they transferred them out of. And uh so I wanted the sickest of all the sick kids, and that's what I wanted to do. The interesting thing was during nursing school that Wisconsin did not do well, was that we we got our rotations still based on where we were in registration. And so there were some girls in my class that got two pediatric rotations, and I got zero. And so then I had to do, I did an independent study at um, because I didn't have a psych rotation either. It was just weird how they did it, and so I ended up doing a pediatric rotation, creating a pediatric psych rotation for myself. So I went out to um the county hospital in Madison and spent time out there at their pediatric psych unit, and that's how I got my pediatric experience. Of course, it was all teenagers. I was about to say, but it was, you know, it was I my my clinicals were great, and it was nice because for me it was nice because later on when I went back to law school and I worked during law school, after my first semester of law school, I was kind of a fish out of water like everybody is. So during Christmas break, I went to work at the University of Wisconsin Madison Hospital. So I already knew what the hospital was like because I did all my clinicals there. And so for my last two and a half years of law school, I ended up working 32 hours a week and going to law school full time, just because I was so much more comfortable in a pediatric ICU than I was. I mean, that was my happy place, which is yeah, I mean, I was just in law school.
SPEAKER_03I just figured I'd work, you know, just about full time while I was there.
SPEAKER_05It's like just it was three 12-hour shifts, and so I could organize my classes and everything to just do three 12-hour shifts. But when I got done with college, I um was very lucky that the my boss at children's in Chicago, I was I wanted to go to either children's in San Diego, children's in Boston, or children's in Chicago. And that Chicago one was my last choice. But they both told me the other two told me I had to take the first available board examination after graduation, and I was going to Europe, so whatever. So I ended up at Children's in Chicago, and my boss was great when I interviewed with her. She was like, Well, I wish I could go to Europe for three months. Go ahead, you know. Go now. Yeah, go now. So I did, and then I was there, I was there for three years. It was great. I it I was on a general surgery floor, but our general surgery ended up being was also the heart transplant floor. And so I wasn't in the ICU there. We had a step-down unit, and then we had the isolation rooms for the kids. So we got all manner of heart surgeries. We had a really big heart surgery program there. So kids with, you know, I mean, just as simple as a PDA to the heart transplant, transpositions, you know, everything. And um, so that was great. That was a great experience. I loved every minute of it. Taking care of the kids was awesome. I mean, it was it was really good. And um, so then when I the reason I went back to law school was because I wanted to be a risk manager at a hospital. That was my goal. So, which is what I ended up doing then after I got done. What made you want to do it? Well, the legal background. So I'm I was since my our my dad, Abby's papa, is a lawyer and he did medical malpractice, and I worked in his law firm all through high school and and college. I never I had one summer where I was a CNA. And otherwise I worked in my dad's law firm the whole time. And so I was constantly looking at cases where the care went, maybe the care didn't really even go that wrong, but the but the staff and the people handle it so poorly because you know, however they approach the people about it, it was like rats leaving a sinking ship every time something went wrong. And that's never the way to handle it. The way to handle it is to lean into it and be like, okay, well, this was a known, you know, potential complication, and this is how we deal with it, and blah, blah, blah. So my goal was then to help hospitals handle those situations better. I did a lot of education with the nursing staff, a lot of education with the physicians, with medical students, nursing students. I taught at the University of Wisconsin for a little while. So it was, it was a I loved doing that. That was that was really fun for me to deal with the professional staff and kind of enlighten them a little bit about better ways to handle those bad situations. And I don't know, I had I when I was a risk manager at a hospital in Chicago, I had some pretty interesting situations happen that yeah, it was crazy.
SPEAKER_03But it was I remember when we would like onboard and then when we would do like our charge nurse class and stuff like that back in the day, they'd always have somebody from risk management come in and scare us about, you know, they give us examples of things and they're like, So you have to do this, this, and this. But it was good information.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. It's I mean, I don't know. I I really, really truly enjoyed that job a lot. It was, I mean, probably the most other than. The actual bedside nursing with kids when I was really young. I loved being a risk manager. I thought it was super fun.
SPEAKER_03What was there risk managers or anything like that when you were a nurse, Nana?
SPEAKER_00No, you just did your job well.
SPEAKER_03And so the patients through the hospital back then?
SPEAKER_00The sisters would make sure that you were taking good care of the patients.
SPEAKER_05Well, but sometimes things go wrong regardless of you taking good care of them. You don't remember any of that?
SPEAKER_00No. But also I've always said a nurse is a teacher. Right. But a teacher is not a nurse. And I always really kind of liked the idea of teaching a little bit. Initially, when I thought I'd go into nursing, I was going to be a psychiatrist. Well, then a psychologist, then a psychiatric nurse. My grandma, because we had a hospital of about 1,200 patients, psychiatric hospital that the nuns ran, and we had our affiliation there. My grandma prayed me through that whole experience. Because I was very simplistic in my approach. I think, well, if they just do this or that, they'd be better. Well, you know how mental health is. But also we did insulin shock treatments, electric shock treatments on the girls or the patients. There were men and women there. But I I concluded that was not for me. But you also taught. I did. I did teach, yes. I in fact, after uh when I got married, then uh initially I was working for Dane County Health Department. Like I said, it we could from our program, we could easily tr transition into various specialties. And so I worked at Dane County Health Department as a public health nurse the first year. Then the next f three years, I worked at Madison General, which had a three-year program, and they had students on three to eleven. So I got to be the clinical supervisor. And with the students, I can remember seeing my light flash up there. They want me down to help one of the students with a procedure or or supervise them. And then we'd have at 10 o'clock, we'd have a clinical conference with the students that were on the floor. And then at 11 o'clock, we were supposed to be off duty. And I can remember getting home at one o'clock, and my husband would say to me, Didn't anyone else come? And I said, Yes. But when we were checking the patient before we left, they needed their bed changed. And I was the instructor. I'm not about to say to the student, well, have at it. So I'd we'd stay and get the patient all comfortable and make sure that everybody was happy. As happy as they could be. And then but I loved it.
SPEAKER_05Well, and there's a so I brought up her teaching because Wisconsin's a small place. When I went to nursing school, then I have my clinical, or no, I'm sorry, before we started our clinicals, we had to do all the all the oh God, learn how to give a physical and you know, all the skills stuff. Uh-huh. And so my teacher for that was one of her students when she was teaching at oh my god. Many years before. So it was it was weird. I had I had and then Abby, I don't know if I ever told you this. I when I had to learn how to do my physical, I did my physical on John on Abby. So I made sure I didn't have to do a genital examination. But me, my brother is he's at the time, he was very tall, 6'4, and very athletic. So doing a an exam on him and finding all his organs and doing everything was super easy because he was just so big and it was and skinny.
SPEAKER_01Skinny.
SPEAKER_05So yeah. So it was funny because I did it on John, and then I was like, oh, John, by the way, mom was this lady's teacher.
SPEAKER_03But when you guys would all get together, did you guys talk, like, would you talk about nursing a lot?
SPEAKER_05Well, yeah. Well, yeah, and we talk about it's interesting because given that my dad is also, you know, did medical malpractice, he's very knowledgeable about healthcare medicine, medical things as well. And mom did consulting for him as you know, as a nurse consultant, reviewing charts and stuff for him later on. And then my sister Lisa is also an attorney, and she did medical malpractice as well. So she is, and she was a biology major. So Lisa's very knowledgeable as well. So it is not unusual to have those conversations going on about this, that, and the other thing, whatever it might be.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And unfortunately, everybody in the family is not happy about those discussions.
SPEAKER_03Well, that's all I was about to say, because I think people sometimes, if we're in a group and there's maybe there's a couple people that don't work, they're like, that's all y'all talk about. Yeah. It's like sometimes you just can't help it.
SPEAKER_05And yeah, as a people, and that's how we did it. Yeah, showing people pictures of stuff. Oh, look at this. This is cool or whatever. And my my husband is also a is a physician. And so then, which I swear to god in nursing school, I would never ever want to be a physician, but that's not how it worked.
SPEAKER_03Did you meet him at work?
SPEAKER_05No, I met him through my well, my sister's husband used to sell a medical device that my husband used in his practice. So that my sister met him and she introduced me. But only one of our kids is in sciences, Olivia, and she's and she's the only one that we can like show to talk about medical stuff to and show the two boys are just like, no, thank you. We don't want to have anything to do with any of this.
SPEAKER_00We all find it exciting, but they find it nauseous.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_03So when you were growing up, Abby, were you do you remember like them telling stories and like patient stories or like Yes?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I they I grew we grew up with stories, especially from Nana, because and Nana's a great storyteller, and she always has a story. And she's lived a lot of life. Like she did a lot of volunteer nursing. I I remember I don't know the whole story. I just remember the aunts and uncles talking about Nana riding around on like a moped on one of the volunteer trips, or like that was this, and everyone was worried about Nana driving the moped around. I was very young hearing this, and I just always have this picture of my Nana riding around with a nursing bag on a moped.
SPEAKER_00It was worse than the when you're in Thailand. It was when I was in uh the Cook Islands, and the nurse she's driving the moped, and so she has me on the back because we have to go up in the hills to visit the people. She's a kind of public health nurse, and we put it to the test, I tell you. But you know, she's a she's a Tongan or uh Samoan or Tongan. Yeah. You know, she's a big woman, but I I have one wonderful experience in my volunteering. I went to Tonga and to the Cook Islands and to Thailand and to Italy and Peru. Yeah. So I made good use of my nursing education and I loved it. But they weren't paying me, I was paying them to be able to go.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it's like those programs you go online now and you can look up, you know, volunteering nursing somewhere in the world and you pay them to go and help, but which is great, great experience. But so when I was in eighth grade, she went to Thailand. It was during the Cambodian War. And so she went to Thailand for what how long did you end up being gone? Eight weeks?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, two and a half months.
SPEAKER_05Or yeah, ten weeks. And over Christmas, she went to uh is what was it called? Global volunteers. So it was very interesting because I don't even know how it happened. So you know the TV show CBS Sunday morning. So it used to be there was a the the host was a guy named Charles Caralt, and he had a very distinct voice, and it was way back then. It looks looks very similar to how it is now. They did a story on her going to Thailand, and he they came and our whole family was home to send her off on the plane to go to Thailand. Everybody came home from college, and so we that we were on CBS Sunday morning when she was over in Thailand. They filmed, they talked to all of us, talked to her about it. Then they followed her over there, so and then filmed over there. So then when it aired, so she was in a you were in a refugee camp in the hospital unit, and every once in a while you'd had to go into it was it was not a hospital unit. It was well, it was a hospital tent, basically.
SPEAKER_00No, no, not even that area at as you were at the Thai Cambodian border, which is where we were on the Thai side because they were still fighting, and you could hear shells and and we had people come from Cambodia and from Thailand into our refugee camp, and they'd uh show up, you give them a couple sticks and a little plastic, and tell them they could go out into the build a shelter, build themselves a place to live. And all these people were very, very kind and very but very you know, some of them hadn't had anything to eat for weeks, you know, and so so we'd go into the camp every morning and in the evening, but then we had to come back into Thailand because the pole pot would be coming into the camps and killing off some of the people. So it was I was never afraid. You know, it was you know, it was just not part of who I am, you know. But it was it was the people were wonderful. You know, like I said, I'd go in there and they'd almost like pet me, you know, it was so gratifying. And then of course when I left, whatever I'd brought over there, I just left it. What you whatever I had wasn't of any value, you know, and one one woman I had a robe, kind of a levur robe, and I gave it to her because she only had the rags on her back. And a couple days later she came and she had made herself a dress out of that robe. And it was beautiful, you know. But and she was so happy, plus it would get cool in the evening, and so she had something warm to put on.
SPEAKER_03But uh did did your family ever try to stop you from doing things like that? Well, you've just better stopped you from doing something you wanted to do, Anna.
SPEAKER_00No, I I don't think uh my husband about it and stuff, but the time seemed to be right. The timing was right. Plus, we also had a friend who was uh involved with global volunteers, and he kind of recruited me to go, Tommy.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And so then, of course, what he says to me, Well, Jane Anna, I hope you like rice, because you're gonna get it 50,000 different ways. And I said, Fortunately, I do. But the other the other nurses who had volunteered were a couple young women from Chicago who were on my team, you know, or with me, and we all stayed together in uh w over the border into Thailand in Kawedong, which was this little town down there, but it and we had a Thai bath, which is uh a trough with water in it, and you have a a bowl and you throw it on yourself and it's cold water to take a shower or bath. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05So that was a good experience. That was the first time that was the first time you went someplace. Then all the other ones happened after that. So she had to scratch that itch.
SPEAKER_01There there is no telling Nana. Nan Nana tells us what to do.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I'm giving I'm getting that sense. I I mean I'm just imagining I'm just imagining like at that time, like you're a mom and a wife, and you're like, I'm just gonna go over here where they're fighting, and well, they're old enough to take care of themselves.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I was 12 years old, whatever. I'm fine. No, you wait. No, I've I know I'm 13. Okay, fine. She didn't fight her. No. Yeah, it was I mean, it was great. We were very proud of her. We were very proud of her doing that. And it was it was just it was pretty cool. And it was cool to be able to see on the on the television program, then see her where she was doing what she was doing, you know, before she even got home. So that was pretty cool. That was nice.
SPEAKER_01And that Nana's work was a large reason why I signed up to go to Costa Rica. And then also when I went and helped set up a clinic in India. And I talked with Nana about both of them before I went, and she was of course like, yeah, you should go. And when I was in Costa Rica, she actually came down and visited me in Costa Rica, and we did some traveling with my mom and one of my sisters at the time.
SPEAKER_03So before you got dengue fever?
SPEAKER_01After it was actually after I got dengue fever.
SPEAKER_03Wanna know. When you guys were in clinicals or even when you were just starting out, what was it like with the doctors? How was the relationship between the nurses and the physicians then?
SPEAKER_00Uh my experience was that and pretty much universally the nuns catered to the doctors. You know, doctor so and so, doctor so-and-so, and they had their favorite nuns who catered to them and would go on rounds with them. But we were not privileged to do that. But you know, it's kind of like as a student you kind of get out of the way. But I did uh kne know some of the residents, you know, more than the interns. And then when I was in Chicago working at TB sanitarium, we had two residents there, and they were always hitting on the nurses, but it was not it uh very seldom was reciprocated because uh you know it was pretty much who here comes the new crop of nurses, and so they'll size them up and but I was not interested in them because I had my boyfriend.
SPEAKER_05She had a lawyer boyfriend. He wasn't while he was in law school anyway.
SPEAKER_00No, he wasn't. He only went to law school after he found out that I could support us. Well, this is true.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Well, you were oh that's well, that's true. You got married pretty early on in that whole process. Yeah. For me, it was it was interesting because when we were in nursing when we were nursing students, we didn't have a lot of interaction with the doctors. The nurse the the nurse instructors pretty much kept us out of any interaction with the doctors or the residents or the medical students. We didn't really I don't remember. I mean, I remember I mean I remember a couple, you know, residents, but not we didn't really have that much interaction as nursing students. When I was at children's though, then we had, you know, it was that was the children's division of Northwestern University Hospital, is what it was in Chicago. And so then we had all the residents, all the medical students and and everything. But even then there weren't there were not a lot of women that were in those programs. And there were a few I recall, and I didn't really I mean I don't know. I have four older brothers and whoever, I didn't really have any issue with dealing with doctors and residents and telling I mean my philosophy about my kids was I was there to protect the kids from them doing stupid stuff. And so that was, I mean, I'm like, listen, you do not go in my and you know, you're not going in my kids' room and waking them up and you know, unless I know you're going. Because so I so I was probably a little bit more forceful than most, but I felt pretty I felt pretty strongly about that too. That you know, I'm there as a patient advocate. And so if you're gonna go in there, you tell me you're going in, I'll go in there with you. And one of them tried to tell me I couldn't be in on rounds once. And I was like, whatever, in your dreams. It's my patient. I'm here. And you know, and so the and that wasn't the that wasn't the attendings. The attendings were great, actually, for the most part to the nurses. The attendings were great. It was the it was the residents that were trying to find their, you know, dominance or whatever it was. And so you by the time they were last year residents, they were fine. But the at the beginning, you know, you kind of had to, you know, rein them in a bit. Yeah. And then it was interesting because I my one of my favorite experiences I had was after I was in law school, after I went to law school, and then I worked in Madison for a couple of years as a lawyer, and then I moved down to Chicago and I had to take the Illinois bar exam. So, but I had to support myself. So while I was studying for the Illinois bar exam, I didn't have a job as a lawyer yet. So I went back to nursing and I was working at Loyola University, Chicago, in their pediatric intensive care unit. And there was one day when this, well, first of all, the first experience with one of the female attendings was interesting because she had been a nurse with me at children's before, and then she went back to medical school. And so it was interesting because she she came off to some of the other nurses as very uh snippy, and they were if there was a lot of, oh well, she's now that she's a doctor, she thinks she's so great kind of thing. And so she and I had a lot of conversations about how she could like smooth her edges a little bit to be, you know, and give the nurse a little break. And but then there was another nurse that or another doctor that came in. She was at the very beginning of her fellowship, and she was a heart transplant or a heart surgeon, and she came flying into the ICU, and there was a kid that just was out of surgery, and she needed my help. It was my patient, and we were standing over the kid and we're talking back and forth and all this, and she's like, Well, just pull that chest tube, will you? And I was like, I'm not pulling a chest tube. What are you talking about? That's you, that's a you thing, you know. I'm not, I'm not an advanced practice nurse, I'm just a regular old nurse, you know. And so I was just like, No. And she and I went back and forth and back and forth over the bed. It wasn't an argument, it was more just talking about, you know, who does what and how things are done. And she finally she looked at me and she goes, Who are you anyway? And I said, What do you mean? She says, You're not just one of the other nurses around here. And I go, Oh, I'm sorry, I'm a lawyer. So and she goes, and she's like, Now I get it. And I was like, Yeah. Who are you? Well, she didn't say it in a mean way, but she just the interaction was different than she was accustomed to.
SPEAKER_03I could tell you were different.
SPEAKER_05She actually ended up being a very, very good friend of mine. She's a heart lungs transplant surgeon out in California. And uh the first of first female heart lung transplant surgeon, actually. And it was just really funny because I was like, Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot to tell you that I'm a lawyer. That is a reason I do things the way I do.
SPEAKER_00Well, you were talking about the nuns. Well, one of the residents uh at St. Joe's was a man. I had I was taking fencing lessons in my at my in my suburban high school. And lo and behold, Dr. Kretschmer also was taking fencing. And so one day he says to me, If you want to practice fencing, we can go down to the to the room in the basement where the doctor has met. And I said, Sherry, why down there? And Sister Alexis shows up and she's just scandalized that I'm down there fencing with this resident, you know, and and she scolded me and and had me go to the office and all this. And I said, It's no big deal, you know. You got in trouble for being alone with that. Well, and he it was not, he was an ugly guy, I will say, Dr. Kretchman. And so it wasn't like I was romantic. He was an ugly guy. That's right. But also he was a real he's the one who said, I want you to be my surgical nurse. And I said, nope, nope. I said, I like my patients unanesthetized.
SPEAKER_05Well, the thing is the other weird thing, if you look at, I mean, talking about going across the ages, you know, thing, just a couple of things come to mind. You asked, you know, were there risk managers for her? No, obviously not. But then, like how charting has changed. changed over time because cause like you know obviously I don't know how you were I don't know if you how you were taught to chart like way back when we were tart taught soap notes you know and that way and then and everything but everything was still handwritten for me and it was just starting so I was at children's from eighty eight to ninety one when I went to law school and at University of Wisconsin from ninety one to ninety I finished by the time I was at Loyola in 96 you know we were full into on a computer charting electronically it was very it wasn't smooth or any of that but you know how you guys do it now you know is very different from how we charted early on well how I charted early on obviously then how she charted.
SPEAKER_00Well and we had we'd have a little notepad in our pocket or something to mark down vitals or something. But at when as a student before you went off shift sister would sit there and check your charts and you would have to wait and stand I could stand fall asleep standing up against a wall but waiting for sister to check the charts and charting was very important you know as far as keeping an accurate account of what was going on with that particular patient whether it was medical or surgical but also I will tell you pediatrics or OB were never things that I wanted to do.
SPEAKER_05She says about any she never took part in the birth of any of her grandchildren because as she told me who mine is the 20th grandchild she told me when my husband asked if she was coming over she said it's not a spectator sport. Thank you Nana she gave birth to seven she didn't need to really be a part of any others.
SPEAKER_00Well and also my husband was one of those guys well do you want your husband no because he'll be passing out and you'll all have to pay attention to him I just have you focus on me. No I you know and that would have been a fact yeah and Papa's a big guy too so he's passed out.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_03Yeah I mean he doesn't have to be there he doesn't have to be on the floor.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Um but the interest the thing about the charting that's interesting to me is then because then I got to look at it from a legal standpoint and I'm sorry trying to make heads or tails about what happens in a hospital now looking at a chart getting a printout of the thousands of pages for someone who's been in an accident or something like that that's been in the hospital for a while. I mean it is so difficult to read a chart from a legal standpoint. I mean if I'm a you know if I'm a plaintiff's attorney or a defense attorney whatever and I'm trying to have to make heads or tails about what actually happened it's crazy how difficult it is just because it's they I mean before you could take a chart and it had its sections and you could just divide them up and go through it and you you really should be able to tell if you read the nurses' notes and the progress notes pretty much what was going on every day. But now it's just it's near on a they don't want us to chart notes for nurses. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03They want everything in the flow sheets.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Yeah it's it's really and and and from a risk management standpoint like that's that's one of the things that I remember having to tell my staff at the hospital like you have to chart exactly what somebody said to you. Like if they're blowing expletives all over the place and or like in the emergency room where at my hospital was if somebody's strung out on PCP and they're doing this, that and the other thing and you know documenting all of that down to the T just to make sure that if somebody comes back and says they were mistreated or whatever during the time period that they cannot remember at all. Yeah. Having that accurate documentation of exactly what happened is very helpful but nobody really thinks about that much anymore.
SPEAKER_00No it's like well I will make a comment about current day because I've had I've been in the hospital a little bit and also with visiting friends the quality of patient care. Now I am not a fan of these two year programs because I don't think the kids although some of them then go back and get their BSN and all that stuff. And but I think they just are not prepared for what needs to be done. And I think it's really important. You have to you know you can't you know the patient in the beds now is halfway down the bed and the nurse walks out of the room I'm going, you're supposed to lower the bed and raise the patient up and you know it's not a big deal. Well and you're not gonna go down the hall and send the aide in to do it because she doesn't know what she's doing. So that's uh I think it's really important that good nursing care is as sister used to say look around before you leave a room take out of the room what you brought in or anything else. Save yourself the steps of running back and forth.
SPEAKER_05That being said the nursing care that you received when you had your heart attack was great. Yeah it was yeah that was I mean it was really exceptional. They did a great job. Yeah and the doctors did a great job. Everybody was I've always kind of had the idea that or I'm sorry the question in my head of are you a nurse because of who you are your personality or are you who you are because you're a nurse and for me it was I there's very intertwined since the idea started when I was four or five years old. I just always thought I was going to be that person and that caretaker and all of that. Entry level into practice type of things I think you can get around entry level issues skill issues if you know the person has the mindset. But sometimes if it just if it's if you're only going to school to learn the technical aspects of being a nurse caring for somebody if you don't get any of the bigger picture you know philosophy and sociology and psychology and all the stuff that goes into actual nursing practice if you don't get that I am I'm a much bigger fan of you know BSN entry level practice but that doesn't mean there aren't people that do just that do a good job. But I think that has more to do with their personality and them wanting to learn those things.
SPEAKER_03Because you can take all those classes and you're just going through the motions to get your grade but it's not sinking in. And when you're 21 and you're just trying to get it done so you can get out and start making money a lot of times you just those things don't click until later in life as you've gone through things and witnessed things and you know I think that we've talked about that before it's just it's hard to be a 22 year old starting out I think as a nurse. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah you just haven't lived a lot of life. Yeah. And I think what we experience too now is there's so much and I say this as an advanced practice nurse but there is so much more opportunity for advanced practice and while I didn't go into nursing with the intention to become an NP, I actually in nursing school for a little bit I was going to follow in my aunt Jen's steps and become a lawyer and do risk management. But I fell in love so much with the bedside that that was quickly taken off. But there's so many people now that go into nursing to become a CRNA or an NP. And they're I feel like that's where some of that is lost too. They're not going into nursing to become a nurse and because they love the bedside they're going into nursing as just like the next step to get to that advanced role.
SPEAKER_03But I do think overall I've known it has been let me get my two years so I can go back to CRNA school. So you're right they don't have that sensitivity because that's not that's not their goal. That's not the goal. Right. Yeah and you know for better or for worse I think men just think differently than women and we might have a little bit more of that emotional aspect and other things.
SPEAKER_05Well and I I guess I always thought I mean I always thought of my job like I said as a patient advocate like I'm there to I'm there for them. And for kids, you know, obviously as people as you have adult patients it's that way you the family is also your patient but even more so when you have when you're taking care of pediatrics. I mean you have you got to take care of mom and dad I mean gosh I talk about talk about being young 21 years old I had parents who the the their little boy who was like four years old picked up a battery in the like a one of those C2 batteries parking lot of a Walmart or whatever and he ate it and it got lodged in his throat and then with your saliva it charges it. So he ended up it eating all the way through his esophagus and you know and so he ends up having to have surgery and and trying to figure out how they can anastomose his esophagus but he's got a spit fistula for a long time and blah blah blah all this stuff but he's four years old. And mom and dad are handling it completely differently as you can imagine they do. And I remember being asked many many times do you have children? And I was 21 22 years old because I got done when I was 21 and I'm like no I don't but you know I'm I I am you know I do have the sensitivity here. And at one point I had to sit down with the mom and the dad separately and like do marriage counseling on how they're both handling this thing. Like her getting all pissed off because he goes to work every day when their poor baby is here in the hospital and he's like nobody's home get making dinner when I'm at work all day because she's at the hospital and all this and I was like hello and I mean I'm I remember saying to him like when you're at when you were getting married and you asked each other what your favorite color was one of the questions wasn't how are you going to handle one of our children having a life threatening accident you know right yeah and for men you know his whole mindset was I'm going to work because we need the insurance somebody's got to money we got to keep doing this and she was so like she has to remember that and for it's like well you know somebody's got to be here with the kid to pay attention to what's going on there make your own dinner you know kind of yeah and so navigating the family dynamics and that stuff is like something that you I don't even know if you can be prepared for I mean oh no you cannot no and I mean that it sounds like you handled that well but I mean I mean it's all about it's all about the mindset of who is your patient and what do you yeah like everybody everybody in the whole room for God's sake sometimes and you know obvious and if the one you know is the patient itself is doing fine and you gotta help the other ones cope because eventually you're gonna have to send them all home together and somebody's gonna have to have their sanity.
SPEAKER_01Yeah we have to deal with a few. But I think for me being on you know the young generation here that's those are the things that carry through like those are some of the conversations that we have that stay consistent like how do we have the how do I have these hard conversations and how do I deal with some of these situations and that's just that's something that will always be there no matter what technologies come and go.
SPEAKER_05And I think that's they're not going to be replaced by AI. No robots or anything yeah no no one wants a robot coming in and putting a wet cloth on their head I don't care what they say you know I don't know if you guys have this it's very interesting though because at in Richmond because it's you know a small town I'm trying to remember dad pop my dad had a um can't remember if it was when he had a vertigo event or if he had a UTI or what it was but they had the they didn't the the it was in the middle of the night and so the physician the on call physician wasn't there and they brought the TV in yeah we yeah do you guys do that too?
SPEAKER_01So we don't we don't have them in our hospital but our physicians are the TV for our smaller hospitals. Okay and they and I've seen it like because they'll be sometimes do it from like the unit on their phone next to me and they've shown me and it's it is really cool how like you don't think that they can see anything but literally I was there and the doctor zoomed in on the IV pump to make sure that the drip was at going at the right rate and could cl crystal clear see see the rate that the the medicine was going in.
SPEAKER_05Well it was interesting for Papa like how the the physician and the nurse had to work together to do the physical exam. So basically the nurses doing the physical exam and the doctor's telling the nurse what to do or where and what to look at and not that the nurse didn't know what to but the doctor's telling the nurse what he wanted to do at that moment. Yeah at that moment and so it was very it was interesting it was a very good use of the technology I think but it has to supplement it's there to help us supplement as we can never replace yeah no person.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely well and also at our hospital here it's affiliated with a bigger hospital in St. in Stillwater a bigger hospital in St. Paul but also they I just don't we have a hospitalist at night people who rotate and so there's always a hospitalist for some reason that night I don't know why it was that way but maybe it was before they had the hospitalists I guess maybe maybe they were staying on it.
SPEAKER_05But that's the thing she's watched it evolve just not in her own practice but after having kids go through it. You know kids you know for however many years 20 28 years you know of of underage kids you know then dealing with all of that.
SPEAKER_00So fortunately for the most part they were all well and I was well so we were able to carry on even though they fell down the steps or off the porch or whatever you know that could Yeah you weren't going to the doctor unless you were hacking up a lung or you broke a bone but there were a lot of broken bones probably not for the week for a nurse wife.
SPEAKER_05Yeah are you dying you're yeah right yeah just just take a deep breath yeah take the microcarson but the family did have a lot of broken bones so yeah there were yes there were a few there were a few accidents that fortunately everybody everybody survived survived and rolled with relatively unscathed yeah so that was all good.
SPEAKER_03Are there things that nurses do now as far as like included in our scope that surprise you or shock you or anything like that as far as what you've observed versus when you guys were at the bedside?
SPEAKER_00It was not a shock but now of course they start IVs and they do all which we didn't we did didn't do that you said like you dares and touch it. You know and so that was I've observed that the nurses have authority to do a lot more.
SPEAKER_05I'm more surprised at what the CNAs have authority to do. That's what I'm more surprised about because the nurses I mean that hasn't evolved that much for me. What I see we were starting IVs we were you know doing a bunch of stuff it's more about this what the CNAs are doing. Because sometimes I'm I don't know I'm I'm thinking that they might not be qualified to be doing some things with the minimal amount of education they've had.
SPEAKER_03But it's depends on they can't they don't they don't give enough opportunities to keep up their skills. So like when I started there they would do IV sticks they would hang some two feet sometimes. They could do like certain things but the opportunity just wasn't there or they so they really don't do that that much anymore I don't think. Okay. Yeah. It might be different on the floor. Um because that was at a time where we were I don't know if this was during COVID or before, but it was around that time where they were playing with the ratios where maybe a nurse would have two I two step down patients and then two general patients but only if those that same group of patients had a dedicated tech and they would help with those things. Right.
SPEAKER_05Yeah right I don't know that that ever worked out or lasted but nothing like that in I think every and every facility is different. Well and like you know and now you go into and you have so many different levels of practice. So like today I go I went and just had a checkup with my doctor and the person checking me in doing taking my history and blood pressure and all that which isn't really technical at all but it's an EMT. It was an E the the young man was an EMT he wasn't a medical tech med tech he wasn't a you know anything he was an EMT and they use a lot of emts around here in the ERs and stuff to do a lot of different things which is interesting. You know I think they've the ones I've encountered have done a decent job. They're all pretty young and you don't know how much experience they've had. But you know I mean I I you know as and this is just in a general practice clinic it's not anything it's not anything that's that yeah you know highly technical or anything.
SPEAKER_00Well and also sometimes it depends on whether you're at a teaching institution or if you're just at a run of the mill hospital. You know because if you're at a teaching institution there's a little more emphasis on preparation. Whereas if it's just run of the mill you know yeah.
SPEAKER_03Do you guys mind when there is nursing students or medical students or people training involved in your care if you've ever had that come up? Yeah. You don't mind it though.
SPEAKER_05No you you let them well usually they can uh my experience has been the the doctor has the medical student or somebody come in and they're taking notes well that's the scribe yeah yeah but they're not they're you know early medical student or you know and they ask if it's all right and well you know I had a I You didn't really have a you didn't do what during your last hospitalization though you she hasn't been hospitalized that many times either though no like if you're if if you were in the hospital or you haven't had to get an epidemic.
SPEAKER_03Are you letting the CRNA student do it?
SPEAKER_05Are you oh for an for anesthesia like just as a hypothetical CRNA student for anesthesia whoever got a lot of surgeries no okay I mean and the only reason I mean I've had a lot of surgeries I had I had vocal cord injury from being and of course nobody's totally intubated like that you know all the way through your vocal cords anymore now anyway. My last surgeries were not but I mean somebody inflated a balloon right into my loc vocal cords for one of my surgeries and it took me two years to recover from it. But having a nursing student as long as or a medical student I don't care like if I if they want to have a nursing student try and start an IV on me, go ahead. Knock your socks off. You gotta learn somehow and it doesn't really bother me that much to do that. And you know as long as they're they have supervision I like to teach as well. So I think somebody's gotta they gotta learn. But I will say the very first time I had surgery which was a long time ago when I had my gallbladder out and I was a risk manager at the time I was at Northwestern University Hospital in Chicago and I looked around the table or around my bed and there's like totally so many medical students and residents. And I was they're talking to me and I was like what year are you? What year are you? What year are you? And I was like none of y'all are touching me except for that guy. Like resident I was just like because they're talking about how quickly they're gonna get my gallbladder out like we're gonna do it in 17 minutes. I'm like do you really have to hurry like come on who cares how quick.
SPEAKER_03Yeah one of the things that we we talk about I don't know I mean I'm sure you guys have seen we do like the real versus real episode we look at reels and things and we touch on it. But just in general I think with social media there's so much discourse on healthcare and I think it comes from people who work in it and also patients. And I I mean especially you Jennifer being a risk manager but when we are working sometimes we're being recorded and maybe we don't know and like people are just Everything on the internet. What do you like, Nana? Can you imagine when you were working back in the day if somebody was videotaping you and giving you a hard time and then it would be put out there for everybody to see? And I mean, can you what do you what I'm just curious what your opinion is on that and Jennifer YouTubing and risk management?
SPEAKER_00Well, I I think that the whole social media thing is overdone. Um and I don't participate in that because I I I've chosen not to, because uh I've observed people who are always on their phone and always this and that. And I think I don't need that stress in my life. Why would I won't introduce it? And so if they want to call me, I have a house phone, they can call me at home. But anyway, I just honestly well and also my son-in-law said, well, uh, and at the uh COVID clinic, a man came in there and he wanted his mother to come to get COVID immunization. And he said he could she said they put a chip in. And I thought, well, that's not all bad. I could just put my arm out, and they finished asking me how old I am, what's my birthday? Have you been on have you been on country and all that? So I'll go read it for yourself. Here it is. And so I would not be opposed to having a chip in my arm, like a dog, maybe.
SPEAKER_03But they thought that they if they got the COVID vaccine, that it's not yeah, you know, it's really little, it'll go through a needle.
SPEAKER_05Come on, yeah.
unknownYeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05But the the whole filming taping of things. So we we actually encountered that with um my husband, he did inter interventional pain and he does IMEs. And so now we've come around to the point where for the IMEs, the uh companies ask if we're if he'll allow it to be videotaped, his exam. And at first he was like, Well, I don't like that at all. I'm like, okay, well, then you can stop doing IMEs. I mean, big deal, who cares? Just you're just doing a regular exam, and you know, it'll be videotaped for the purposes of, you know, you're in you're clashing back and forth with another pain person anyway, so whatever. But that's under that situation where he's providing a service that he's getting paid differently for, and he's agreeing to it. Having it, having somebody filming what's going on in the hospital, like that's I mean, in the in the ER. Can you I mean, I don't know if any of you watch Pitt, they actually do a very good job in that show. But there was one where there's somebody, you know, filming what's going on, and it's like, oh no, no, no, no, no. We're not we're not doing that. Because the minute you start doing that, and I would, if I was a if I was a risk manager in a hospital now, I'd have signs up all over the place that say it's not allowed. That's what I would do. Because to me, that distraction interferes with the professional's ability to provide care. Yeah, it it it totally makes you self-conscious. It would make you self-conscious about what you're doing. And then having somebody, it's bad enough to have somebody always saying, Why are you doing that? What are you doing? Da da da da. I mean, let's go back to the days where you ask family to leave the room while you're examination of somebody or doing certain things. Nobody needs to be. I that is one thing they do on that show that drives me crazy when they got a family member standing in the corner while they're intubating somebody. No, that's not family, or when they're shocking. No, they don't need to people can't people who don't have any background can't handle that kind of violence trauma, trauma, trauma that goes into that goes into care, you know. And we'd be very selective about when we had the parents in the room when we were doing certain things to their kids, and just because, you know, next thing you know, you got somebody elbowing you out of the way. And so having it videotaped or recorded, you know, in any way, shape, or form, it's one thing for them to say, hey, because I've had this, hey, my sister's gonna get on, you know, she's gonna get on FaceTime and we're gonna have the conversation together because I'm in California and whatever's going on, and my dad is or she's in the hospital, and I'm having to talk to the ER doc. That's one thing, but to record it is a completely different situation. And I I would put, like I said, as a risk manager, I put signs up all over the place that say it's not allowed. And I'd also check the state because in certain states it's illegal to tape somebody without the person's consent. Not in every state, but in a lot of states it is.
SPEAKER_00Well, and all I think that putting it out there, like you say, people are so inexperienced and they misinterpret so much that they don't need that uh ca cause them more angst about what's gonna happen to them. You know, we used uh one one thing we did to is pass the gastro tube, you know, be in a bowl all cold, and you'd have to put it down everybody's nose and into their stomach and all that kind of stuff. And I, you know, and people would be gagging, obviously, and you'd try but you if that's on the screen, these people nobody's gonna volunteer for that. You know. Right. Yeah. So anyway, it's uh it's interesting. Uh there's a plus to it, but we all I also had the nuns if you were doing a procedure, and that's also what I did with my students, is that the nurse supervisor would be overseeing the procedure, you know. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Right. Right. I do wonder too with how different it was with the nuns in the hospitals, because I just imagine there was already like a sense of respect for them. Because I had one doctor that we work with and recently converted to Catholicism. And we were having an argument about the new uniform policy. And I just asked him, I was like, if we worked at a hospital where the nuns made this policy, would you be arguing about it? Would you be this angry? And he's like, Of course not, no. And I was like, Okay, so why why? Well, they're they're nuns, they would know they know better, they would make the right choice. And I mean, it's a larger conversation about administration and whatnot. What what problem do they have the dress code policy? The where the badges are. I don't know why them the male doctors are so obsessed about where the badges are, because they can't be on their hips anymore.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Oh, I mean, I think the doctors can do whatever they want.
SPEAKER_03They think.
SPEAKER_05They think, yeah, exactly. See, that was my thing. I mean, I when I was a risk manager, you know, I I actually interviewed for another risk management job after I had my after I my kids were older. And it was very interesting because I had a very different opinion about how much the doctors should be uh kowtowed to when I was older. And I I was just like, you know, it's there, I mean, uh you're the risk manager for the hospital, not for the doctors, for the hospital. So you gotta do what's best for the hospital and not have and not being, you know, doing whatever the doctor wants. Just because they're a doctor doesn't necessarily mean they make the best decisions about a lot of things.
SPEAKER_03So it's like why you need good nurses and other people on the team. Exactly.
SPEAKER_05Exactly. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I will recommend to you if you haven't had occasion to on public television several years ago, there's a recording about the history of the Mayo Clinic, and the nuns ran the mayo clinic. And and the doctors would say, Well, whatever sister says, whatever sister says, you know, because they cater to them, but they ran the hospital and they there's never any question about who was in charge.
SPEAKER_05Well, most hospitals We need the nuns.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03We need the nuns to come back.
SPEAKER_01But well is Yeah. Do you have any other questions, Kaylee?
SPEAKER_03I have a question, just a quick question. What do you think about we were talking about the dress code? What do you think about the scrubs these days?
SPEAKER_05I have no problem with scrubs. I think scrubs are great.
SPEAKER_03I mean You like all the like the trends and sands the joggers, the scrubs, the jumpsuits.
SPEAKER_05That doesn't oh I don't even know what they I don't know what the different scrubs look like. I'm just pants in a shirt. That's all I think. But like because we we were starting to wear scrubs when I was going to law school as well when we starting. And then and the thing is, once again, it's different when it's little kids. So that's why we're allowed to wear white pants. We we had to wear white bottoms, but we were allowed to wear colored tops.
SPEAKER_04Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_05Like we could wear a top with Snoopy on it, or we could wear a top, a t-shirt, colored t-shirts. We weren't allowed to wear scrubs then, but then you know, it evolved and you had pediatric scrubbed, you know, scrubs for scrubs, little kids and stuff like that. But I don't, you know, what the staff is wearing doesn't really I don't really pay attention that much as long as everybody's put together. I mean, I don't like well. Yeah, no, I'm just I'm just gonna leave it. I like I like the idea of scrubs because I think it's consistent and it's you know, everybody kind of looks the same. The only thing I mean, I don't know, do you guys color code them? Yeah, they're color coded now. But that's that's a fair.
SPEAKER_01That's been but that's that's been a change since I started nursing. When I first started, everyone could wear whatever, and then slowly hospitals have switched to color coding. Nurses are this color, yeah. Respiratory's this color.
SPEAKER_05Are the scrubs provided by the hospital? You have to buy your own. But they tell you what color to wear.
SPEAKER_01Mm-hmm. They will for some groups, if they change the color. So, like when I worked when I was a bedside nurse at my hospital, we went to standard colors. If you made below a certain amount an hour, they would give you money for two sets. But that was not the nurses, it was pretty much like the nursing assistants and transport and so now what color do the nurse do uh do the nurses wear?
SPEAKER_00Is that you? We wear black. You wear black?
SPEAKER_03And we can have like white, gray, or black undershirts.
SPEAKER_01I can wear whatever color. So I do. I I would like a lot of I have a lot of lavender scrubs that I wear.
SPEAKER_03And the tech's wear teal and then RTs will wear like navy. So you can kind of differentiate.
SPEAKER_05Well, and that's mostly for the staff to be able to differentiate who's and what they're doing without looking at their name badge, so you know whether or not somebody's supposed to be in a room doing whatever and all that kind of stuff.
SPEAKER_01So I miss the nursing hats. I thought those were cool. Are you serious? Oh, I never had to work. Yeah. Well, because I thought they were cool because and Nana, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding of them is they would like they had different stripes on them, and it would tell like your rank or like you're the charge nurse, you're a training nurse, like and so it was like a signal to everyone, like kind of who you were. And I just think that's so cool.
SPEAKER_00Well, it was more um I have hers, by the way. You was m well, we didn't put a stripe on it, which had to do with whether or not you were a student or a graduate. Yeah, stripe meant that you had graduated. But uh and of course when you were in the or or something like that, you were just wore You just had a bonnet on uh scrub hat.
SPEAKER_05Scrub hat.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so but also like I told the kids I've never had a diamond because I told my husband that then, which we couldn't afford anyway, but I said, I'd rather get married than save for a diamond, but uh because all I'll do with the diamond is have to pin it in my bra because you weren't allowed to wear it because it got hooked on the bed or at the in the hole or with the glove, you're poking through the gloves. And so I said, I don't need to have a diamond to wear inside my bra.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. Well, I don't know about that one, Nana. Kay Kaylee's like, give me my diamond.
SPEAKER_03No, I mean I don't even care about diamonds, I'm just you know me either. She was like, that's fine, I'll I'll keep working and put you through law school. Don't worry about don't worry about me. I think it I mean, w I see people wearing some big rings at work. I'm like, I really would hate to have you lose that, but well, but also they get dirty.
SPEAKER_05I mean, yeah, you gotta be able to like my husband never was worn his his wedding ring even because I mean he was having to scrub into everything and he can wear it to scrub in, so he just never wore it, period.
SPEAKER_01I think people wear the silicone ones. Yeah, there's the silicone ones now, but well, any final stories, Nana and Aunt Jen?
SPEAKER_00Just keep recruiting the the people to go into nursing because we're obviously short on nursing. You know, and it's a wonderful, wonderful lifetime choice.
SPEAKER_01Yes, yes. Well, if you've made it this far, make sure you hit the like, follow button, leave us a comment. Do you have any questions for Nana? I mean, she has seen the whole spectrum of nursing. What about Aunt Jen? She's risk management and seen a spectrum of nursing as well. They're a wealth of knowledge, and I'm sure we can convince them to come back again, especially if I go and visit Nana. But from all of us shift talkers here at the at Banter at the bedside, until next time. Bye.
SPEAKER_00Bye. Thanks, Bobby.
SPEAKER_01Nice to meet you. If this felt your kind of conversation, make sure you're following, leave us a review, and we'll see you back here soon. Bye.
SPEAKER_04Step into the light where the stories come.