Creative Minds
Podcast discussing this highs & lows + words of wisdom from individuals in creative industries.
Creative Minds
Lisa Lashes - Queen Of Hard House
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
In this next episode I sat down with undisputed Queen of Hard House in the world of electronic music - Lisa Lashes.
Lisa's incredible career spans over 30 years since emerging as a DJ back in 1992, with a strong affiliation to iconic brands including Sundissential, Godskitchen, Judgement Sundays and her very own Lashed too.
We discuss her life journey so far coming from a Jehova's Witnesses background growing up, to a polar opposite path with her success as a female artist in the music industry.
Follow Lisa Lashes on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/djlisalashes/?locale=en_GB
Follow Lisa Lashes on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/djlisalashes/?hl=en-gb
#musicindustry #musicbusiness #electronicmusic #hardhouse
Creative Minds YouTube Channel: @CreativeMindsPodUK
Creative Minds Instagram: creativeminds_podcast
Creative Minds TikTok: creative.minds..uk
And that one is always there, yeah. We're back with another episode of the Creative Minds podcast, and just before I introduce the lovely lady to my right, I just want to say thank you very much as always for the ongoing support, especially as an independent podcast. Any subscribes to the YouTube channel greatly appreciated. Any engagement with the short form content on the likes of Instagram and TikTok also goes a long way. So I've had to prepare my introduction for this one. It's been quite the career in the music business for Lisa Lashes, from her last events to Sunday Central, God's Kitchen, Judgment Sundays, Tidy Tracks to name a few. I think I'd be right in saying definitely up there is the first lady of Hard House or the Queen of Hard House. Without being too much of a brown nose, I think that's probably a fair introduction, would you say?
SPEAKER_00I think that's alright.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's okay.
SPEAKER_00Well 30 years next next year.
SPEAKER_03I didn't want to drop a number in there because a gentleman should never drop drop an actual number as to how many years you've been in the music business, but this should be a very interesting one. So, first of all, thank you very much for making the time to come on. Uh, how are you and how's your 2025 been?
SPEAKER_00Um, really good actually. So um obviously it's my 30 years next year, so I've been kind of gearing up with the music production, going back into that. Um, and yeah, track uh like events are coming in thick and fast. I think I've got 24 bookings already for 2026, which is amazing. Solid, very solid. Really good, so I'm I'm really happy. I took a bit of time out, but we'll talk about that with the school in a bit. But um, yeah, it's been a good thing. For sure.
SPEAKER_03How was you said you were in Bournemouth last week? It looked amazing. The venue.
SPEAKER_00Opera house in Bournemouth, so that's sold out. I absolutely love at the moment all the clubs kind of like selling out in the hard house realm because um, you know, we have had a bit of a a kind of a downtime, but I think with the I think with the new breed, sort of like Hannah Lang and you know, the the boys and and doing their thing over in Ibetha and stuff, it's kind of brought a little bit more to the forefront of the hard house style because we're always kind of like the bastard of dance music. That's what I used to say that we were, you know.
SPEAKER_03And you always kind of like that in a way because you bit re rebelling against the system, we're doing our own thing, which I kind of rate as well. It's like rather than just conforming to the system and blending in with what everybody else is doing, you're like, no, I'm staying true to myself, this is what I believe in and I'm passionate about.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean I did a couple of different things. I'd um, you know, I did a bit of trance, a bit of side trance, this, that, the other, but the love of it is hard house, really. So I've kind of got my family back. Working with tidy tracks again, bringing out um a new, you know, the euphoria albums, so the orange one, so that was the celebration um at the opera house on Saturday. Um, 2,000 people raving away, like it just kind of stepping back in time, you know. And I'm absolutely loving that.
SPEAKER_03Nice full circle moments, then in a way. It's all cyclical and coming coming back down, which is which is great to see. With you mentioning tidy tracks, then you must be well, friends or know Lee Haslam, who I work with, yeah. So yeah, so Lee Lee mentioned tidy tracks. Obviously, more I'm educating myself in terms of different parts of the ecosystem with electronic music, and as soon as you mentioned tidy tracks, I was like, oh, that's definitely there's a connection there with Lee. It's funny. People think the music industry is a huge place because it's global. It's like, no, it's actually a lot smaller than you think. So don't be an arsehole basically.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely. That's um um, so there's Amadeus uh Mozart, which um is a funny name, and uh Andy Pickles, who were originally the Jive Buddy, so you know they got they got their fame and fortune kind of from that, and then still did the production company and do yeah, do sell out events now, so you know, 30 years later.
SPEAKER_03With you mentioning Hannah, has it been nice in terms of that nod from new school to old school with her not necessarily that you'd exce expect the acknowledgement, but with her kind of respecting what you did during your era and her obviously taking you up to she did the festival, doing Dundee. Yeah, so that's that's that's a nice moment, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely. So to be brought into that, which is a kind of brand new kind of audience and stuff, and to the extent that she did it, it was absolutely salut. And I think she's already sold out 2026 as well, which is fair play, you know, and she's got a really good team around her, and she's a beautiful song.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, she is she is a really nice girl. We had Cash Only, Sam Devine's husband on, and I'm good mates with Gaskin as well, who's up from Newcastle, he's more like Tack House. But when he was doing his seasons in San Ant, he said, you know, she was out there grafting. I think this is the whole social media perception oh, it's just a female that's come through and she's having her moments. No, they don't see all the years of hard work and the sacrifices of blood, sweat, and tears. Yeah, and that was quite nice when she did the Highlander puby and uh on on the festival site, and it's it is gruelling. I mean, I've never done a season, but even a few even five days in Ibiza, it it has a way of taking your soul, so to do six months is yeah, f full respect to her.
SPEAKER_00I think we did it in 2000. We did um, or I think it was 2000, um, so Roman Tristan, who is my manager, uh amazing person back then. Um, still friends today, love him. Um, you know, we we did a whole season, uh, five, six months, um, and yeah, it nearly killed us. Yeah, he stayed there for six months. I kept going back and forth. I'll see you next week. Bye.
SPEAKER_03Do you need a bit of a breather? I beat there's probably not many places you can find there to go for a breather, especially during that period, the early noughties, when it was it was pretty insane. Foot fall on for sure. So I suppose it makes sense then chronologically to go right the way back in terms of your childhood, your upbringing, and I suppose how you then got into electronic music.
SPEAKER_00So, well, I was uh I'm one of six, um six sisters, five sisters and brothers, um and one parent family, council house, you know, that kind of uh school dinners, and you know, we were kind of poor really, as my mum would say. So um I I mean uh bought up in Coventry, moved to Nineaton, started working as soon as I left left school that week, moved in, uh did a YTS, which is like you know, youth training schemes. Yeah, it was like£19.50 a week. That's all we had to survive on. You used to do everything for that, go out three times a week.
SPEAKER_03I was gonna say back then I actually would have actually done alright, but now I mean Christ, you can't even get halfway to Manchester for that now, never mind anything else.
SPEAKER_00So I started there, um was there for eight and a half years, but in that when I was working there, um I literally found Birmingham, I found Birmingham clubbing. So um I basically got married when I was 18 or something like that really silly. Um obviously wasn't ready. Um my broke up in my early 20s, um, had a best friend who went over to Birmingham to Money Pennies actually, and um took me over there one Saturday, and I just remember kind of walking in the doors and going, This is where everyone is. You know what I mean? Absolute music, people, just the whole experience.
SPEAKER_03That's like light bulb moment, you're like the I feel part of something without even initially being a part of it.
SPEAKER_00I literally hadn't, you know, didn't really, I'm not really close to my family and stuff, and I wasn't at that time either. So your friends are your family. So I was there every you know, did the whole thing like every Friday, Saturday, Sunday. I'm out, I'm there sleeping in the car park, opposite the NCP. Do you know what I mean? Made friends with the guys who could go and do my teeth in the morning and just get freshened up and stuff, just one of those. And um, and yeah, just found a whole family of friends that I'm still friends with now, 30 odd years later.
SPEAKER_03I think that there is a lot of friendships I've made that literally do become like family, and obviously not making it about myself similar to you when I first moved to Birmingham, didn't really have that much of a family connection, and then you become friends with people on the dance floor through the the passion for music, and yeah, there's just a proper community, and then you're like, oh, these people are actually more of my family than my actual family. Exactly. If you don't mind me asking me that being intrusive, I mean, how how difficult was it then growing up with you saying, you know, like one of six and you know that kind of set up bringing you?
SPEAKER_00You know, my mum um had three jobs in the end. I did you didn't I didn't really see her that much. Um, you know, my sisters sort of like brought us up and then they left the nest. Um moved out, left school at 16, moved straight over to Neneaton. I didn't say goodbye to my friends because I didn't know I was moving, so I kind of it was very odd kind of time. Um my mum was remarried again. Um I didn't really get on with him, so I kind of left home when I was 17, so on my own really.
SPEAKER_03Especially as it like not in a patronizing way, like a young well, you say you're still like a you're not really a woman at 17, you're still a child, really.
SPEAKER_00I didn't know who I was, what I was, anything like that.
SPEAKER_03So I think most people Yeah, I mean, d do you feel like in terms of your upbringing that gave you that additional drive to want to go out there and do something for yourself and everything you've achieved?
SPEAKER_00I believe so, because um, you know, I, you know, after a marriage breakdown and um a lot of confusion and stuff like that that happened then, um, you know, it was I was in a dark place and music kind of took me out of that, really. It wasn't until I was 24 that I um, you know, obviously found the clubbing days and stuff like that, and that absolutely changed my life. So I think sometimes, you know, as above so below, it's like you if you don't get those depths of the downtimes and the depression and the real mental kind of issues, um, you can't have the the top.
SPEAKER_03It is it is bizarre because at the time, even though it is awful and you think, Christ, I can't I just get a break here, catch a lucky break. But then the resilience that it builds, I'm not saying to anyone who's listening there, go through those really downtimes, because ideally, you know, if life is plain training, but you do appreciate when you have those real moments of of reflection when you've achieved something, you think, Christ, I had to go through all of that to get to where I am now, and it does make you feel proud, and even in the element of privilege as well, it's like because you didn't come from a privileged background, especially once again, not in a patronising way. There's probably been times where as as a as a woman in the industry you probably had to fight a little bit harder, yeah, and then getting to where you you you have been, and you you know you still you still are now held in high regard, there probably is that greater feeling of satisfaction, yeah, for for sure, because I know that um I kind of have earned that as well, and and also I push myself um into music was my life.
SPEAKER_00I you know it there's there's two sides of it as well. It's kind of like um, you know, I miss my mum's 60th birthday and marri and people's weddings and this and that and funerals and stuff because I'm in Australia or I'm hearing that. Your family uh kind of go, um, you know, that's not normal, but when you're in the creative industries, you're either married to it or you're not. Very true.
SPEAKER_03You're eat you're either all in, there's no one foot in, one foot. I'm not I'm I'm a believer in that, and people might think it's selfish, but but that is the nature of the business, it comes with the territory. Like you're not going to turn down, especially when it's your income, not just a passion, say, well, you know, I don't particularly want to have to miss this, but work's calling, and I'm especially you're not really in a position most of the time to to say no, obviously, especially the more you climb the ladder, it is quite dog eat dog.
SPEAKER_00And you you know, you say yes to everything. I I I remember um going around the world. We did me and Raymond and I did like 24 countries in a month, you know, when I was really kind of like going there, dude. It was sort of like every day, blah blah blah. And and that's what you have to do. That's what you've if you want to be a musician or creative industry now, you've got to get do full on lunch.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it is it is intense. I'm sure I'm sure we'll come on to the touring aspect is intense to say the least. So see, with you know, the hard house techno trans, with it being, you know, quite opposite end of the spectrum, not just in electronic music but in general, what were your kind of like main musical influences growing up within a household where you're one of multiple siblings and stuff?
SPEAKER_00Well, it was kind of weird because it was like um so my dad was a Jehovah's Witness, so he was in a band as well. So I was very much brought up with Alvis Presley and kind of like the um, I suppose like the the hymns and stuff on there. Um when he left when he um I was 11 after 26 years of marriage actually with my mum. Um when he when he left, it was like we then started changing a little bit, sort of going going out because we didn't have Christmas.
SPEAKER_03I was gonna say, Jehovah's Witness, my my granddad who's passed away now, his brother passed away because he refused a blood transfusion, and my granddad always had that big gripe because he was like, Oh, if he hadn't have been converted, which by the way, nothing against Jehovah's Witnesses, that's their that's their way of life. But yeah, I do I do recall when I was young and my whenever they'd come to the door, my granddad didn't yeah, it didn't go down well. And if you don't mind me asking, even though you said he left when you were quite young, so it wasn't like you were 15, 16, was there ever an element because of that way of life that you kind of rebelled against or not necessarily so.
SPEAKER_00I potentially think so, yeah.
SPEAKER_03It is a very different way of life, let's be honest.
SPEAKER_00Massively, yeah. So I think once my dad kind of left, um the family was a little bit in turmoil, you know. My mum then was obviously going through uh 26 years of a marriage breakup. Um and you know, she she did have a couple of boyfriends and this, that, and the other, so there was a you know, a little bit of upheaval. Um, and you go and you do rebel against that, don't you? You know, when you're like, I don't like that person that's coming to the house or whatever. So I wouldn't have thought I would have been easy.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, no, understandably as well then 100%. So yeah, in terms of work then, did I read as well that you obviously you mentioned the YTS, did you work for Mark Spencer? Mark Spencer. Yeah, I've done a little bit of research.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and it was it was funny actually because they um when I found like Money Penns and stuff, so what happened was my friend who had taken me um over to Birmingham to Money Penners to one of one of the nights, um, she came and lived with me after my marriage broke up. Um, and then she brought her boyfriend into the house, and he was the one who had the decks, the technique sets. So one one evening he came around um with his decks and was like, is it okay if I set these up here? Because my mum's going mad. And I do know what I mean. Yeah, for sure, for sure. I didn't know I hadn't even really seen a pair of decks before.
SPEAKER_03Wasn't that common really back then, was it?
SPEAKER_00No. So I had these shiny, lovely things that were making, you know, with records and stuff in the dining room. Um, and I kind of wasn't allowed on them because they're can you imagine how expensive they're gonna be?
SPEAKER_03Oh, yeah, especially back then it would have been expensive.
SPEAKER_00So it's like, don't touch them, don't stitch the needles, da da da, you know, that kind of kind of thing. So I'd be like, okay, no problem. Um anyway, I did use to go on them. And uh used to come. Just waiting for him to go. Yeah, he's gone. I did. So he worked at the Jag, so uh when he went, um, so I'd go off to Marks and Spencer's, come back on the bus at lunchtime and have a little go on them and then go back to just leave them as they are.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I just I was gonna say thinking about which which record was in that within that order, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Do you know what I mean? So um so yeah, I mean, uh all praise to like Baz and Joe for kind of introducing me into that. So I used to go and get um from at Queen's Road, which is at MS in Lynetton, there used to be a record shop, so I used to go in there, um, and they used to allow me to swap things and stuff like a pound kind of like you can have that and then bring it back next week. So I just used to like go and play.
SPEAKER_03What were the main records in his collection at first?
SPEAKER_00You know, like hip-hop and stuff like that. So it wasn't kind of the style that I was, but then I found this place which was like um yeah, Queens Road. So I used to buy a few tracks and I actually bought two tracks, which was Susie Carr All Over Me, which is the cowboy remix. Um, and I played them back to back to back to back, and I just could get I could just play straight away and I could feel like you had that natural ability. Yeah, that's nice. I missed that, yeah. I didn't have any um teachings or anything, but um, yeah, and then I was caught caught when he came back ill and I'm on the deck, so yeah. What are you doing? But then it was like we did a party that weekend and all of his friends uh came round and um they just handed me different styles of music and could mix them in.
SPEAKER_03So it's quite funny when you say most people that say, I've caught Lisa for having an affair.
SPEAKER_00No, she was on my deck, she was how dare how dare she give me a MS MS uniform.
SPEAKER_03There must be something in the in the water in MS because you've gone on to achieve what you have, and I'm sure Calvin Harris was uh was um stock in Chelsea. So anyone out there who's aspiring to be an artist, go and work at MS because somehow there's there's some kind of path that leads that leads you on to that. I mean I mean I'm assuming you must know Mark Gillespie quite quite well. He's obviously Calvin's manager, and I I haven't had the privilege of meeting him, but obviously, from a management perspective, he's the kind of person you want to be able to pick his brains and just spend a day even shadowing him. I mean, what he's achieved is yeah. I mean, I don't really think there's probably many people bigger in the music business that I've done. I don't think so.
SPEAKER_00So Neil Moffat, maybe he's done pretty well, isn't he? And you know, I I've told Neil Moffat told me once that I gave him the worst advice ever, and I was like, Well, I'm so glad that you didn't actually do it. Because he God's Kitchen Sunday Century just started in 1996. He was wanting a couple, I was playing for him in Stratford upon Avon, his tiny little club that he had. Um, and then he said, Oh, look, yeah, I wanted to pick the brains about going to Birmingham and stuff, and I was like, Oh, I don't know whether you should do it because there's a new super club and blah blah blah. Anyway, he did it, and I'm very grateful.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, sometimes you have got a rebel rebel rebel against the system and don't listen to the advice.
SPEAKER_02Exactly.
SPEAKER_03So, yeah, in terms of your like clubbing experiences then and then the the the DJing aspect, where does it go from there then chronologically? Because obviously I have done my research, but there is there is a fair bit to cover, so I'd rather you lead the way in some respect.
SPEAKER_00So, um so when I went and started playing on the decks and stuff, it was it was about um three months, I think, that somebody asked me to do a boat party on the River Thames. Um and I wasn't ready at all. I was like, oh my god, I don't want to do it. But um I went and did it, it was the worst set ever because obviously you're on the barge and you're bumping around, the decks are going like this. But there was somebody on the boat called Madders, we know Maddis from Sunday Central. So he um he basically you know picked me up and um used to call me Gashes, and I'd be like, Don't say that, it's terrible, mate. Introduce me though, mate. Don't do that.
SPEAKER_03First impressions, Christ.
SPEAKER_00And um, and yeah, I mean it he decided to run um a few things in Burton upon Trent, uh just till dawn and stuff, and then he started um the Big Sunday Central, and as we know, it was one of the biggest super crazy.
SPEAKER_03Oh, yeah, I was gonna say, well, even even now, people people still talk about it very much. I mean, well, I'm 31, 2025, and they say literally 30, well nearly enough 30 years down the line. Yeah, and yeah, but clearly it shows it's testament to how much of an iconic brand um it is.
SPEAKER_00And and looking back on it now, thinking about you know, it used to hold sort of like two and a half, three thousand people, there'd be that many people just all in the red and yellow. They they'd just got like the scene, do you know what I mean? They they all dressed up from the week before, they'd be like getting their outfits ready and stuff like that. And it was just absolutely amazing to see all those thousands of people in Birmingham queuing up at the pulse to go in.
SPEAKER_03Where about the pulse base? Sorry, because I I lived here ten years ago, so I'm just trying to picture my mind where it was.
SPEAKER_00It was by the Chinese quarter. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I know what you mean.
SPEAKER_00So, um, yeah, massive, massive um nightclub. But um, yeah, it you know, and and it was the same again, you kind of opened those doors and you could feel the just the energy and the the frequency or whatever it is from.
SPEAKER_03It must be interesting then, I suppose, especially going as far back as then, how you've probably seen not just the musical landscape, but just like the scene in Birmingham as a whole, how have you seen it change? Even I know you you live more rural, yeah, like Leicesterway now, uh not giving their address out, gents, don't worry. Um but yeah, like in terms of how you've seen it change, probably for better and for worse, because I imagine there's been pretty drastic changes.
SPEAKER_00I mean, I think when um, you know, a big club kind of does it it was kind of like 2000 and what would I say, sort of like 15 or something, that I kind of saw the down side of clubbing a little bit, you know. People I think people were going out, they'd had all these highs and stuff like that, and then there was nothing new coming on there. Um so I decided to go off and do a bit of trance. It was um, you know, playing it ass art for Armin and different things like that. And then I kind of I didn't love that music as much as I did the other. So um, yeah, but I mean that's that's always been the love for me, but um yeah, um it's it's difficult, isn't it, when you've got a massive brand that doesn't that then doesn't like happen in Birmingham anymore. Yeah, it kind of like loses those people, loses the momentum and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_03See naturally, I suppose is where naturally people they're older, they probably get married, they settle down there, have their kids and they're like one party day, isn't it? Yeah, go in Nasgaz crazy and then trying to perform in in the office on a Monday morning. Hence why I suppose the reunions do so well people are like, no, no, I've booked my time off, I've booked a few days off to recover afterwards.
SPEAKER_00I could we used to do it Friday, Saturday, Sunday, you know, and then go to I used to go to MS on a Monday, like Yeah, I can imagine that was uh that was interesting.
SPEAKER_03I've I've been I've been there myself when I used to do the um the full the full-time corporate job and you'd be going in on a Monday and be like, Christ. And then by the time we get to Thursday, be like, nah, I'm ready to go again. But I would say to when I'm listening, just definitely be careful. There's a few young lads that I've spoken to. We were in Manchester for a pop-up party with this record that we've just released, and there was a few young lads, and they'd be getting a little bit too ahead of themselves on a Thursday. I said, lads, I'm not in a patronising way, I'm 31 and I've done what you've done, just be careful because this scene can chew you up and spit you out. It's not the the the the ties, but then there is massive lows if you're not careful.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, there was a there was a thing. Um uh Sam Divine uh posted it about there was a podcast talking about uh touring and how people see it, you know, you're in that club, you're like there with 2,000 people or shouting your name, da da da. And the next minute you're back at your hotel room, like you know, that's it. It is heavy.
SPEAKER_03The mental I I've definitely I've mentioned it myself on here before. It's even even if you are sober, the adrenaline rush of being in front of that many people, and then you're in an isolated hotel room often, unless you've got a tour manager or a Partner, whereas most people, unless you're learning the big books, is you have to travel alone because of the costs involved, even for yourself. So even that alone, but then you imagine if you add drink and drugs into it, the sleep deprivation, everything else, is it will play havoc with you mentally? There's not many people I've met in in even 10 years of doing this where they're that resilient mentally. I think there's a lot of people who on the outside they create the perception, even sometimes a whole alpha male, oh, nothing, nothing impacts me. But let's be honest, we're all human beings. There will come a stage where it will catch up with you.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely, yeah. You just gotta be really, really careful. I think Armin Van Buren was um talking about it. He has never met any of the artists who haven't had like some sort of issues with anxiety, depression, this, that, and the other. Because it's a world that you um, you know, you you get put in and you're just out there laid bare, really, isn't it?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, especially, I mean, you imagine I suppose, in a way, did you kind of prefer it back then that I mean, even I'm trying to think, I was at school 2005, 2010, and then you had like Sony Erickson's and Motorola raises. Like social media wasn't other than MySpace or Bibo was like mid-nauties, but like social media wasn't really a thing. So I suppose there is pressure because obviously you've still got to perform and then you've got to keep delivering time and time again. Whereas now it's I see a lot of people struggling mentally because it's the whole comparison game is oh, how many followers have I got and all and all that nonsense that's like.
SPEAKER_00Well, you're literally a social media expert, you have to be to be a DJ from the internet. Pretty much sadly.
SPEAKER_03It's it even what frustrates me is that I always try to look at it from a booking and programming perspective is because it's music, that should be primarily first and foremost. Well, can you back it on on the decks? You know, whether I know you're not always necessarily having to be a producer, whereas nowadays it's like, what records have you got coming out? Yeah, how many times do you post on social media? Like it's yeah, you should follow in. What's this?
SPEAKER_00You've got to think of yourself as a mind map, and you've got all these little things that you have to be doing, you know, running events, doing this, potentially have a an agency, you know, that kind of thing. So it is a lot more than music, where before it was like when you know, go out on a Friday, Saturday, Sunday, didn't have to do anything else, except for the Thursday record shop.
SPEAKER_03I think people in general were just a lot more carefree as well. Even when I even when I look back at growing up in the early noughties, I still remember like 2002, 2003, is because people weren't plugged in in their phones, playing that it doesn't matter, even not even just the music business, but just the comparison game as a whole, is there's that whole people creating the perception that their life is all glitz and glam and perfect. Often it's obviously not. Yeah. But yeah, if you're like Beyonce or Kim Kardashian, you've got billions in the account, but even they have people say more money, more problems. Yeah, sure. You know, you probably can't go anywhere without strategically planning with your security. Yeah, don't get me wrong, yeah, they do have the riches of life, the private jets and everything.
SPEAKER_00But yeah, I think But it's still out of this world kind of living, isn't it?
SPEAKER_03No, yeah, very very much. It's literally like a different planet, isn't it, altogether? But yeah, I've gone off, gone off on a nice tangent there, I suppose. But do you do you prefer it in a way that the way it was back then? You know, less social media, it was more just about the music aspect of it.
SPEAKER_00I mean, I quite like the social media because I'm I'm somebody who does all my own social media and I will endeavour to try and uh talk to most people, even if it was a little hard to let them know I've done that kind of thing. So it's a nice connection that you didn't have before.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um so I don't I don't I do like it, but it was, yeah, a lot more carefree back at there. There was the phones and the SM.
SPEAKER_03There is like you say, there is definitely positives to social media, more so back then. If you're travelling the world, there's probably a lot of fans, but you're only able to engage with them physically, which I know is is a great thing to be able to see someone, it does create a bit more of a special moment, whereas now it's only a click away. So yeah, there is definitely positives and and negatives for sure.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I wish I wish it wasn't so different, but it it it is, isn't it? And you've got to use it the way it is, you've just got to change with the times, haven't you?
SPEAKER_03Well, if you don't move with the times, the times don't wait for you. The music industry waits for no man or woman, unfortunately.
SPEAKER_00I don't like the fact that um, you know, you put music out there and you can't really, you know, artists and stuff can't earn a living out of their music, like on Spotify and streams.
SPEAKER_03Don't get me started on that.
SPEAKER_00Um I just think it's terrible because you've got so many um, you know, people that artists that can't survive, they have to have jobs and stuff like that because they can't you can't get anywhere.
SPEAKER_03I I've I've questioned it a few times, and I I I'm quite active and outspoken on LinkedIn, and I think there is probably a few people who've clocked what I'm saying, but I think because the truth hurts and they don't like when people speak out about the facts, and I think it was Snoop Dogg who was saying, you know, when I was buying albums as a kid in the late 90s and early noughties, like you had a physical copy there, and yes, you know, distribution and the label took a percentage because whereas physical, you know the price, whereas now it's like a million streams equates to four thousand dollars. So you've literally just manufactured a number whereas a million streams, when you break it down, is only four thousand dollars. Like there is a massive disconnect there, and it makes no sense.
SPEAKER_00It's really terrible. And it, you know, it's kind of like um this is why, you know, talking about the slash the school of music, which uh which started in 2018, the reason I wanted it government funded and for free is because people can't afford to pay for creative, creative some people. And we would find you know, the people that we had through the doors, they wouldn't have been able to afford to come on something. It would have been too expensive to come on. So with the government funding, that's what we did. And we found people from you know, like like carers, people that were not from this country had been one young lad who'd been dropped off at Heathbow and you know that kind of thing. So we brought him on board. Um and he's doing amazing now, doing teaching other people music and stuff. So that wouldn't have happened if there it would have been a price to that. So I don't think you know, I was what I'd like to do with people to do is like do those kind of things where you're educating people in the creative industry, but you're not charging them. The government should be paying.
SPEAKER_03Well, yeah, but I mean we discussed it before the podcast is the business that we do at Lab 11 with a lot of the Dutch artists, managers, agents, and you look at I know there's probably different aspects of their economy with the the ports and things like that where they are strong, but the way that the government understands not just culturally but the economic contribution that you know if you I think it's the Hermann Brood Academy where Dennis Quinn teaches me, you've had Chris Dussie come out of there, another Thoman, like a lot of high-profile artists now, especially within house music, and obviously, like you've had your Armin Van Buren's you've I'm assuming Paul Van Dyke's obviously Dutch. Is he Dutch? Yeah, well we'll say, well, Van Dijk, I'm I'm hoping. Yeah, he must be. Yeah. Awful researcher there, clearly. Not knowing his his nationality, but yeah, it's just that their understanding and appreciation for what it does, and you can see the positive knock-on effect that it has, whereas here, especially during Covid, comes back to the point about royalties with records, but it woefully exposed, you know, artists that were so heavily reliant on touring because there was very little equity in in their records, and it's like now, unless you know, full credit to your likes of Sonny Federa and MK and people like that that have created hit after hit, they can probably more live off the royalty side of things. Yeah, but for the most part, people, you know, that they are music producers, but to be able to just rely solely on your records is especially nowadays in the digital age, is no, it's it's not realistic. No, um for the most part.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but um, you know, but like creative spaces like that, like you were saying, um education spaces that we've we had over 1400 um students and people come to our um school of music. And we were in Manchester, we did Tiger Tiger at Manchester, so and uh Northampton at the Students Union. So we literally they were our classrooms. So why why do a normal classroom when you do it in a nightclub? So the first day of our 12-week um course, three days a week, was going into a nightclub with all the things going on.
SPEAKER_03Oh, fit environment to be fair.
SPEAKER_00Sure, you know, and you got Rob Tisau on the decks or Anne Savage and this and that. They're all the tutors, they're all my friends. So you report.
SPEAKER_03How did it come about with Finn and Sonny? Because I had no idea, I've been friends in Murphy's Law for years. How did it come about? Because they live, do they live near you? Yes, I live in Leicester.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so I um how did that come about? I think um Finn wanted to do an interview with me um for his when he was still at college, so he was only a young lad. So we came to my house um and we did an interview, and then because I knew what he did, love them two are just. Oh, they're they're amazing, yeah, they're they're really good lads. Um so well crackers, but lovely.
SPEAKER_03That's what that's probably what adds to the wonder the ingredients of them probably connecting so well with the students at the same time.
SPEAKER_00So they they probably did talk about 800 kids for um so we're a pr uh alternative provision as well. So we used to go into schools um to do like a one or two day courses with the kids who had been literally shut out, you know, like we can't deal with them, don't know what they want. We'd go in as a music um entity and they they would be fully engaged. So, you know, the day-to-day kind of school don't do any of that, they're just the massive.
SPEAKER_03Two one-dimensional, one-size-fits-all approach. And I was exactly the same when I when I was at school. Like I did quite well in terms of like history and English and when I did politics at college, but certain things like maths and science, I was absolutely awful. I think I had to resit maths three times, it just wasn't suited to me. But because, say, if you weren't engaged with something and you were a little bit disruptive, they just saw you as oh, you're just a problem child, whereas it's like, well, no, if because you're not tailoring the education system to individuals, which I understand it comes back to the whole government funding state schools. If you're at a private school, I mean one of the lads I managed, he got a music scholarship to Shrewsbury School, which is one of the best private schools in the world, I think. I think Mr. Bean's son went there, Rowan Atkinson's son, Gary Barlow's. I think you've had like yeah, you've had a lot of famous people send their kids there, but obviously you're going to one of the best schools in the world, so therefore, you expect yeah, you're like if you're good at music, you know, you've got the best of hardware, software, you know, tutors, whereas state school, it's like well, you're in a cabin at the back if you're lucky with the keyboard where everyone's messing around on it.
SPEAKER_00So we we basically mopped up all the um the kids who weren't weren't going to school, they were getting in trouble with the police and stuff like that. So we did like a cohort for the police, um 32 people I think we had. Um yeah, it was interesting day one because there was two uh gang members that were postcodes that they shouldn't have even got to be.
SPEAKER_03Well, probably same post, go never mind the same room.
SPEAKER_00And it was like, oh no, so but we just said, look, we're not gonna tolerate any of that, you'll be out, kind of thing. So we got them on the um in together in the studio working on a on a track together, and yeah, they're best friends and everything.
SPEAKER_03This is what's funny is the amount of people, one of my friends, Lawrence, I think I had him on the first episode, he works with H. Um obviously just been an anonymous celebrity as well, so they've got NQ in in Northern Quarter. I think I think it's a JV with one of the big majors, but it's an amazing studio, and you do have a lot of people where they come from deprived backgrounds, you know, there's a lot of you know, conditioning negatively in terms of you know, like gang gang behaviour and things like that. But then when they realise, oh actually they're a really good songwriter or they're a good rapper, yeah, and then actually, you know, they were told at school, oh, you'll never amount to nothing because maybe you don't adhere to the the the standard conforming to the norm, but then actually they go on to become multimillionaires because they're actually very talented.
SPEAKER_00Well you find a lot a lot of people that don't do so well in um you know like normal schools, they're they have got that creative aspect and give that to them and find their you know the spark that they have, you could they could do anything. You know, we had like with the guiding people in the right direction, isn't it? Absolutely, and find and just spending that time with them. They're you know, they're they're misunderstood and they make themselves more insular because of that, but it's about bringing that out of them. So and I believe that music is a massive thing to do that. And I know, I know that happens. I mean, w we started the school from basically a mind map school. What am I gonna do? Oh, okay, music production, DJing and how to do that, events, okay, we'll do that, you know, uh PR, like kind of media, social media, let's do that. So our 12-week course was consisted of all of the maths and English that they needed. We I embedded it into the um, you know, like the the lessons. So, you know, Maureen isn't going with 10 eggs to fucking thingy train. Yeah, generic. She's now off to um you know, record sort of it, yeah. Like in a tent with the mates, you've got one free barber ticket and you've got VIP there, so that's how you know, and they they can all add up when they when they want to.
SPEAKER_03No, that's not nice, nice idea, actually, a nice way of approaching it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and they all pass uh they all pass their maths and English at the at the school within twelve weeks.
SPEAKER_03I can imagine that's probably just as, if not a greater feeling when you're working with students, especially that maybe come from a certain background or they're in a difficult situation, and then you manage to I know not every case and you're not a miracle worker can be a success story, but I bet that must be just as great a feeling as when you're stood in front of thousands of people on the decks.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. I mean, AD was in October and I was walking through the airport and someone's like, Lisa, like and it was one of my um the young lads that was in cohort one for Northampton. I was like, What are you up to? Like, didn't it? He went, Oh, I'm going to meet Armin of um, you know, from this. He never knew about music and stuff. Oh, I'm signed a tractor at Armin's labels, so I'm going over to AD to meet.
SPEAKER_03Amazing.
SPEAKER_00How amazing's that? Yeah. We've got um DJ Adriana. Have you heard of DJ Adriana?
SPEAKER_03So she's doing it with Adriatic, not A. No, Adriana.
SPEAKER_00So she's doing amazing. She's, I think Lee looks after it actually. Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_03I should know then in that case.
SPEAKER_00So um she's um, you know, warmed up for Carl Cox and like playing all up all over the world. Charlotte Van der Pierre, she's come from the school.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, Charlotte Van der Pierre. She's based on London, way, isn't she?
SPEAKER_00Now, she just moved to Dubai uh last week. Um so she came from the school. So um she can DJ or anything now, and you know, just that um ev I think everyone who's come from the school has got that certain taken music in wherever it is that they've done, whether it's you know, photography or events or being a DJ or a musician and stuff. They've got to be a lot of people.
SPEAKER_03I think that's a nice thing when you're within that ecosystem, is sometimes I mean, I I was fortunate to play for Tom Shorters at Rainbow for a few years. I mean, when I moved to Birmingham, I I just wanted to be involved in the scene and then to be able to DJ, but I didn't, I would never saw myself, and I probably was never at that level either to go and really kick on. But then I think even when you're within creative space, you think, okay, I'm probably not going to make it there, but I actually really enjoy artist liaison or artist management or I want to be a booker. And I think I'm sure it was Mark Gillespie similar. He did bookings and programming for God's Kitchen. And then obviously he's got I mean, hopefully, if I if I follow in that in those footsteps, I'll be I'll be doing alright, even if I do is he now not partner with Jay-Z and stuff. Do we know 360? I'm sure they've got, I know they've got Frankie Warr, I'm sure they've got Will Smith on the books as well. Yeah, they do not just music, they do they do all sorts, but yeah, they've got MK, they've got some very high-profile clients.
SPEAKER_00How cool is that though?
SPEAKER_03Oh, it's amazing. I mean the hat top. I'll mention Mark a few times, a bit of a fanboy, but now anyone, I'm sure he was from Nuneaton.
SPEAKER_00Oh, was he from?
SPEAKER_03I'm sure when I was I was I was doing a bit of a deep dive on him in it in his story, but yeah.
SPEAKER_00Or Strat or Stratford. So near Stratford right here and um Neil Moffat and Gaz and stuff, yeah. But then then I mean they went on to uh going to Vegas and doing you know Vegas in its halo.
SPEAKER_03Because I've heard now a lot of people are saying because it's not the whole what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas and because of social media, people don't go there as much to think I'm gonna get caught out here with uh with the with the debauchery. And from what I've heard, it's just the prices. I think we'll probably come on to it in terms of some of the fees and then the tables. You think, well, unless you're accommodating for either a really successful crypto Don or a Middle Eastern oil baron, it's like, well, you're not really gonna be able to keep funding this this level. It's yeah, it's a bit outrageous.
SPEAKER_00But I remember going to going to Hackassan for this first time um with uh uh Moffitt, and uh you know the the table that was sitting at apparently was like 30,000 pounds to sit there at the table. I'm like, I'm not gonna be able to do that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, they're gonna say that I'm not gone to the very edge of the table, I'd be exactly this one definitely.
SPEAKER_00And then I met um Sheikh, whatever his name is, who was from Manchester, did he look after he owned Manchester City.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, Shaikh Mansoor, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so he was there as well. So you're kind of like, what hell is it?
SPEAKER_03So yeah, it is a it is a different world, isn't it? That level of money.
SPEAKER_00Well, basically money is not an object, it's not just like but they've got um the thing that they have is vision as well, you know. So obviously they did Global Gavarin, which was massive successful for all the guys from there. So um, yeah, they just have a massive, they had like a family as well. So all of them, when God's Kitchen finished over here, they all went over to support uh Neil Moffat with his ventures over, you know, in the clubs and stuff over in the world.
SPEAKER_03I'm sure because some of the guys I work with up in Manchester, I'm sure do that same family involved with Co-op Arena. They've invested in that. And I know people say, oh Matt, you know, Man City have bought Champions Leagues and Premier Leagues, but what they've done economic regeneration-wise, for let's be honest, the North tragically and like unfairly gets abandoned by London. It's like the wealth tends to be hoarded down there, it's like they're very much do-it-yourself mindset. Is it's been amazing in a way. I know people can say, Oh, the there's wider questions can be asked, which we won't go down that rabbit hole, but what they have done for the city as a whole, it's it's amazing. That's why now, sadly, I'm the first one to admit it. I love Birmingham, but Manchester is overtaken Birmingham by yeah, by a lot of people.
SPEAKER_00Sasha Lord probably had a big push in that, didn't it, with the warehouse project and just booking big, big kind of people, bringing them into the city and stuff. So um, but they uh they definitely had a love-hate situation with Birmingham, with Manchester and London, wasn't it? It was like the divide, yeah, definitely.
SPEAKER_03Which I can I can kind of understand because especially even Covid again exposed you know the amount of backhanders and golden hand jets, things were going on. It's like, well, we're all kind of adhering to the rules to an extent, and then you're all getting away with like literal murder. It was yeah, shocking. But yeah, we won't we won't go down that rabbit hole anyway. Taking it back to the days of Sunday sanction and then where you went from there. Because obviously I know obviously you played for the likes of God's kitchen, obviously you've done your own last events, there's Judgment Sundays. I'm guessing, you know, like early noughties, it was probably a pretty intense time for you, touring everything else.
SPEAKER_00I remember getting onto the British Airways with um a lady going to um uh Argentina and then coming back on the same thing. She's you know, she was there. She's like, Do you work for the house? Yeah, you're our hostess for tonight, Lisa.
unknownHello again.
SPEAKER_00Do you know what I mean? That was pretty cool. But um yeah, I mean South America's great, isn't it?
SPEAKER_03Manic. Yeah, it's it's it's because I see now I went to Peru in January, John Digweed, I had a chat with him and Cole Cox is playing. I mean, I timed it perfectly. Then them playing a beach party, but especially like they are proper electronic music heads. Like if you're not bringing the magic, they will soon even though you obviously they speak Spanish, I imagine, largely it's like, yeah, they they'll soon tell you, you'll work out whether or not you're uh you're doing your job properly, but yeah, they're very well educated very much so musically, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and have have a specific coolness about them as well.
SPEAKER_03It's effortlessly cool. When I went to Colombia and I've been to Ecuador, it's like some people, like you know, a lot of those countries I know Argentina is a bit more developed, but particularly Colombia, um not necessarily Peru, but Ecuador. Some of it is technically a third world country, but the people they have they do have that kind of natural um Yeah, well, you you don't mind them wearing glasses at at night shades, you're happy with that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. You carry on. No, that's right. But talking about kind of like the culture nighttime industries, it's it's in a scary position right at the minute, right? Especially with the new government not giving any help with um, you know, anything literally anything for the club scene. So in I know in Germany that they give a million pounds is sort of like earmarked for all of the big venues, all the big things, to you know, to make sure that the sound system's okay, that not hurting people's ears or the soundproofing so you're not pissing people off next door and whatever. But now, you know, I I think I introduced you to um Michael Kill and all-time introduce station. It's uh they're having a terrible time because 500 clubs have literally shut down since um COVID and nobody really cares.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's it's poor. I think this is where as well, and people talk about the culture, and you know, don't get me wrong, I've I've you know, I've worked with some great bigger venues, and I understand they serve a purpose, but in terms of that grassroots starting at a certain position, and then you know, obviously the end goal is to play in front of thousands of people at festivals and and bigger venues, but for the most part, I think in order to create proper art and culture, you do need those smaller grassroots venues. I understand that not every single one is is going to survive, sadly, but you you still do need that funding and that and that support.
SPEAKER_00But where do you where where do these new, you know, artists, musicians, whatever, what live bands, where do they go? If there's nowhere for them to go, where exactly are they going?
SPEAKER_03You need somewhere to hone your craft and get better because just being going from TikTok and doing a bootleg and all of a sudden you're on a major label, which is a big gripe of mine, which we won't get into, and then all of a sudden you're on the biggest stage in the world. I'm like, well, unless you're a real natural talent, you're gonna be overwhelmed. Never mind just in terms of playing on a huge system like that and and reading the crowd, it's like it's you just haven't got the experience to do it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, you've got to work your way up, surely. Yeah, say me, went straight into the theatre, but um it's it's kind of not like that. That that you know, and it's so hard for people to get the funding, like they have to go and write the pictures as or picture writers, couple of grand. People can't afford that.
SPEAKER_03They can't and that's the thing, coming back to the whole economic side, it's like how are they not looking at the bigger picture? I mean biggest. We uh we've got a party on the end of year twenty eighth of December, which we've fully sold it out across the day and night, it'll be well over two thousand people. But we're gonna attract people, not just from the West Midlands, yeah. Is that what What that does in terms of economic contribution in terms of hotels, taxis, restaurants, people go to the ball ring. It's like how we people don't just come straight to the club, it's that overall experience and what it contributes for.
SPEAKER_00But lockdown, we got nothing. It really did kind of kill some people because of that. But because I think the government just doesn't understand that it is a it's it's a necessary, you know, people want to go out, they have to. They have hard lives. People have jobs that they don't want to be in sometimes, you know, Monday to Friday, rat race kind of thing.
SPEAKER_03They're weekends.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, for sure. I've yeah, we've got to be.
SPEAKER_03And that weekend is that that is the time to let loose. Yeah, that is that is your life, I don't know.
SPEAKER_00You give them a couple of days, and it's like, yeah, I'm gonna go out and do as whatever I can and meet with family and friends, you know.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, for sure. I was reading as well, obviously, as well as Argentina, that you you know, you paid in the likes of China, Russia. No, I had to. How was that experience? Was it I'm assuming it was communist back then as well? How how was that experience?
SPEAKER_00So it was with Carlsberg, so I had like a tour manager person, but um, yeah, I mean, it I was on a train with chickens above my head and stuff like that going through China. Do you know what I mean? Little little I mean I'm only five foot two, so I felt quite tall when I was there. Um but they're like they were all into like the big pop and canter pop and this like the other, so um had a big um band on before, but uh they loved it. I it was absolutely fantastic.
SPEAKER_03What year was that, sorry?
SPEAKER_00That was probably 99, I would say. So yeah, it was the first few months.
SPEAKER_03Even coming back to the whole social media aspect because then you literally It wasn't even there. Well, yeah, you get the opportunity to go to China and it's it probably must have been mind-blowing at the time.
SPEAKER_00100%. I mean I can't remember much about it now, but I do remember it was a big stage, um, massive event, and um what made me giggle was that they introduced me as Risa Washes like I was like, I couldn't stop laughing, so I'm like that is amazing. So into it, you know, like just the chunk like yes, you were like a superstar.
SPEAKER_03Oh that is brilliant. I was gonna say having the the double L alliteration problem that is classic.
SPEAKER_01That was quite funny. That's amazing.
SPEAKER_03I wasn't expecting that curve all that's that really has made me laugh. Even Russia speaks to a fair few artists, obviously, before we're not gonna get too much into the whole political situation. Obviously, now I think it's probably not the safest place to go, sadly. Yeah, with everything that's been going on the last few years. But there's a f a few artists, I think Archie Hamilton said that he played an after party there once, and he said it was this guy taking him to an after party, and it was just this guy. And he didn't have decks, he just had a like a an orcs, and he was there just like put the bottle of vodka on the table there, like yeah, you just choose tracks. I mean, he was there like so there for a bit and he thought I want to go now, mate, if that's if that's okay with Do I have to do this? Yeah, it's a a bit interesting.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I've done mosquitoes in Petersburg. Um I actually played in a ice-filled um well made out of ice, this whole like nightclub. It was like, what?
SPEAKER_03Russia's in a mate. I'll have another privilege of going to be honest. I do want to go, but I don't know if because of the whole blonde hair, blue eyes, you might think I'm MI5, double agent. And then I and I'll end up in some gulag saying, Lisa, can you uh can you contact someone from back in the day that you might still know in in in Russia? But yeah, I still I still do Russian history, like Lenin and Stalin. I mean, in terms of you must have seen in terms of what even the the architecture and the infrastructure, like it it is an amazing country without even going there, it's very very interesting history. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, they are very much that we are what we are.
SPEAKER_00Um they're like very charity as well. When I first heard I was like going, Why why are you annoyed at me for it? It was like you're that like um no, that's it's it was cool.
SPEAKER_03I'm sure it was Gold um Wolf was saying he was with Goldie. This was years and years ago, and they said, you know, you've got like these underground clubs, and you go into an elevator and it's uh just like it's yeah, it's yeah, colourful experiences.
SPEAKER_00I did um I did a little tour with Goldie, well, a little big tour with um Grace Jones, uh Goldie, uh the Weather Girls, it was so ATB, so rude, me and Ann Savage. Basically, we went and toured around uh Durban, Johannesburg, South Africa, and um yeah, that was the time where uh you know, 30 years ago, if you think about it, they were still wouldn't let eyed, was it? So yeah. They wouldn't let black people into a restaurant and stuff, so that was not even like essentially not even that long ago.
SPEAKER_03Like I was yeah, I was born and I mean, yeah, it's it's crazy to think that that was still going on.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03Even back then.
SPEAKER_00But it's it you know, when you're in a group of people like that, it's pretty embarrassing because you're like, oh, we've just been served ourselves.
SPEAKER_03Oh of course, especially with Goldie and Grace Jones, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And the weather girls, like that kind of thing. So um, yeah, so we've all we all walked out anyway.
SPEAKER_03So of course. What would you say you you obviously I'm sure we've mentioned a few there, what would you say your like fondness experiences when you look back on on the touring where you think you know you're probably tell the grandkids or whatever, look back fondly in in years to come.
SPEAKER_00I remember um Anne and I had um a dressing room and she was next door, and um she came out and we wanted to meet her anyway, so we were like, Oh, can you can hear the door going? Let's go say hello. Anyway, she's like seven foot something with all these diamantes and stuff and mate Savoski all round her face, and she went, ladies, very nice to meet you. But if I smile and one of these pops off, somebody's in trouble. We were like, bye.
SPEAKER_03I can imagine she is when you're that superstar level, there is that kind of my god, yeah.
SPEAKER_00We were like, don't smile, bye. Like ran back in, went like, ah, do you know what I mean? Like school girls kind of thing. So um, yeah, that was cool. Like 1999, South Africa. Um, yeah, yeah. Who did Grace Jones marry?
SPEAKER_03Because I obviously I know who Grace Jones is. I'm trying to think there's there's some kind of mad story. It wasn't no Dolphin. It wasn't Dolph Lundron, was it? From Rocky. I don't know whether I've got that completely wrong. Oh, okay. But I'm not sure whether she's married. No, I'm not sure. I'm not sure. No, it is. I'm not sure. I've probably got that completely wrong. Someone's gonna be in the comments like, what are you on about? Dolph Lundron, who played Ivan Drago in Rocky Four, was not married to Grace Jones. I think I might be thinking of Bridget. No, Bridget Nielsen was actually in the film.
SPEAKER_00She was uh she was married to him.
SPEAKER_03So but was it so that's it alone?
SPEAKER_00No, she I don't know.
SPEAKER_03We're going down a bit uh a film the Rabbit Holia anyway.
SPEAKER_00Someone allowed us now.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so someone allowed us now, anyway, I'm sure. So, yeah, in terms of the the the touring then, did when did it get to the stage where I suppose probably sadly in a way, I know you said that you ventured off into trance, techno, yeah, sci trance, where I suppose there is cycles with music where you saw hard house kind of dipping off a little bit in terms of the taste.
SPEAKER_00What what kind of period was that when you then ventured off and did um I think it would have been about 2014, I was off to stuff. So I did step away from hard house for for quite some time. Yeah. So now I feel like I've you know coming back full circle, really, coming making tunes, doing an album, you for your album, um, you know, playing at the big sell out kind of events and stuff like that. So it was 100% come full circle. But um yeah, it it comes to a point where um I suppose I saw the scene getting a little bit rubbish, you know, and going down and down and down. And I didn't want to go step in kind of into um you know the shady nightclubs and stuff that you know Yeah, no, I know what you're saying. I didn't want to do that, so I decided to kind of like pull away a little bit. And then obviously um I was kind of feeling not so well around 2017. I was doing um uh patron for the Pink Ribbon Foundation, um, and I was doing a bike ride for them, 60 miles from London to Brighton, and I kept like coming from my bike and just have a being blue round my face and feeling really, really unwell. And so I was going in for tests and stuff like that, and they couldn't find anything. Um anyway, it turns out that I 2018, the week that I opened the School of Music in Northampton, I was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes. So that would have been why I didn't feel that. Yeah, well, yeah. So you the brains of you of uh a normal person who hasn't got type 1 diabetes, it's between five and seven. So when they'd checked mine, um I was 33, so I was literally heart attack material, stroke material, all that kind of stuff. So I literally didn't find out until I was going to do a tour in Australia. Um fell in on on the plane, they took me um off the plane, did some tests and stuff like that. Um said I was having a heart attack, which was the most scary thing. I'm on my own in Abu Dhabi, I pulled off a plane, shit, what's going on? Um, I was left actually in the airport for five hours waiting for the ambulance. They didn't understand what I was saying, da da da. Um and I think that's when I kind of um I was I was there overnight, put me into the MR eye scanners and stuff like that. Um, and it was they said I hadn't had a heart attack when I got back, did some tests I had type 1 diabetic. So I actually was kind of pulling away and I didn't realise why. I was just losing that energy for it, you know. It was uh it's a big diagnosis at the end of the day.
SPEAKER_03I'm assuming you're all good now though, in terms of day-to-day.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean I inject eight times a day. Um keeps me alive. That's it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I remember I remember when I lived in Shrewsbury, there was a lad and he he had to inject several times a day. And I think sometimes people don't treat it as seriously as they should, in terms of just like the overall perception in society, oh just diabetes, and I no, no, I have to inject eight times a day just to literally di diabetes two and one.
SPEAKER_00So diabetes two is um you've overwhelming your pancreas, but you can take that back with food. Diabetes uh type one is um my have I'm in the um yeah, broken pancreas society. So it doesn't work, it doesn't give those hormones out and never never.
SPEAKER_03The pancreas without trying to act like Dr. Hughes here, it is quite a big thing. So I'm sure Window Kid, who's quite a big MC, I'm sure he has been public about it, it's not me sharing his personal health issues. I think because he was partying that much, he literally burnt through his pancreas. And obviously, then if your pancreas, yeah, I think he well, he almost died, he was in hospital for quite a while. Well, pancreatitis remove it. But then I think that's quite a vital part, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00If that's not functioning, then it's giving you your hormones to be able to eat, and you know, it's uh so every time I have to think about having something to eat, I have to inject first, calculate how many carbs I think I'm gonna have, and then if you haven't done it right, you either go into a hypo or a hypo. It's pretty um yeah, it's pretty insane.
SPEAKER_03And on next week's episode of Health and Wellness with Lisa Lashes in Calendars, which you've got to say I'm certainly not in the position to be reading about health and wellness with some of my weekend antics. But um, yeah, so looking back then, not just in terms of the touring, but all those brands that you played for, like how was I Ba back then in terms of like late 90s, early, early noughties? Because I I didn't go until 2017. I'd literally just I was a bit of a naughty boy in 2016, so I couldn't go to space. I missed Carl Cox's closing, which a few of my friends went there like, yeah, it probably was the greatest party I've ever been to. But even the whole, you know, obviously there's a lot of politics on the island, you know, that the whole DJ fee, social media, like how how how good was it back then?
SPEAKER_00Well, we didn't have phones, so it was amazing in 2000, and I'm so glad. So I did the um a season of um last events at Eden in San Antonio, and then um we kind of like we didn't make any money, like whatever happened, I don't know, whatever. Um so then I uh got on board with Judge Jewels for 2001 and became like resident for him, so happy with that. Yeah, yeah. Rather than every Tuesday, I'm like, ah, clear me now. But um, yeah, it's quite it's kind of growing, isn't it?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I can imagine. Like I say, I've only ever done maximum five days, and by the time I'm like, you go on that much of a role with the lack of self-discipline, obviously it is self-inflict. I think ah, I'm ready for the Burger King and to go to go back home now.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely, but yeah, I mean it was insane scenes. Eden would be packed up to the rafters, four or five thousand people, you know, dancers and this, and you know, obviously the the chemicals were probably better. Yeah, undoubtedly. Yeah, and Ibiza and stuff.
SPEAKER_03So yeah, there was uh I'm assuming did you play the likes of Amnesia, Pasha, whatever else? Yeah, I mean, even amnesia now. I went in September. That in DT10 for me is still just got that. Even Pasha, to be fair, there's certain interior aspects, it feels very much old Ibiza. It's got that raw feeling to it. It's nice.
SPEAKER_00Um just with uh purple disco machine, so Roman Tristan looks after them. And what amazing scenes they are, in you know, everyone just dancing. Thankfully, they put the phones away for a while. But um, but there's things that they want to capture, they want to capture that time, and you know, people go, Well, put your phones away.
SPEAKER_03Was it defected you were there for when purple disco machine played? I don't know. Not just with them, yeah. Just with them. Having a good time. Yeah, it is yeah, it's definitely interesting. I did during COVID, I spoke to a guy called Howard, who runs IB through Unlocked, so he became good mates with Fat Boy Slim, moved over, it was when Manu Mission was on, so he moved over there late 90s, used to dress up as Elvis, bungee jump when he was on acid in old town, go to DT10 when it was literally just proper old DT10. It was a space after party, wasn't it?
SPEAKER_02It was, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Back then it was it just none of this backstage nonsense then. Like, I mean fair play now, the vision that they've had and the whole networking and high-end clientele. It's it's like it's like another side of the club, isn't there, now at DT 10. But back then it was like no, you literally jump down into the gravel to have a fag. And yeah, just speaking to him is just very interesting. He's lived in Ibetha for that long. He deals now with like high-end clients. So if you've got like a yacht and you want a good space in the harbour, or someone from SAS Who Dares Wings, or Roger Taylor from Queen, he's very much because he knows the island like the back of his end, back of his hand, and he's very good with hospitality and looking after people. Yeah, it's just it's very interesting. I wish I could, in a way, while you don't want to wish time away, I wish I was born a little bit younger so than you could have experienced it in the late 90s in the early noughties. I mean, I think I went to 2002, sorry, with my mum. I think she used the divorce proceedings to take us to Ibiza instead of putting it into a mortgage. But I see that's when Kevin and Perry came out. And obviously, you're too young, so we're there just doing karaoke by the pool, and you're watching Kevin and Perry like, oh, I want to go amnesia. So it's like, I think you're a bit too young for that yet, son.
SPEAKER_00You've got to I actually did a stage side from an amnesia when it was all the other time. I don't know why I did it. I was playing there with Fergie, got the Kitchen event, and um I think it was in Mixmag actually for the second most craziest thing that someone's done after the DJ session.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that could go one way or another. You'd still be sat here now just fully in plastic.
SPEAKER_00I mean, when I jumped, I oh gosh, this was years ago. I jumped off the side and I used to wear like leather, kind of pretty much like leather stuff, and my leather thing got caught on the rails, so she had to have people jumping up to and I had to undo it and then go, You ready? Like, and run up by the time that the probably was for the best at social media, didn't you?
SPEAKER_03Really, I'm so glad about that. Nah, I I don't blame you.
SPEAKER_00But I will be playing at Amnesia 2026 for God's Kitchen, so that's just come in.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And um Birmingham for um the new God's Kitchen for I'll have to pop down.
SPEAKER_03So that's in May, isn't it? May Bank holiday, I'll definitely have to pop down. Speaking to Nick Ferguson the other day, and I did say to me, we showed him around the club, and I said, mate, I totally understand that the level of capacity that you guys can do. It's a pragmatic business decision, which I totally understand.
SPEAKER_00So where are they? What's it where are they at? Why are they not at your club?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, well, I totally understand. Like business is business. If you can do more numbers, you're not going to go to a club that's smaller. And to be fair, it's it's good spaces as well, so I get it. But even with Judge Jules' complete mad curveball, when we were getting um music contracts looked over by a lawyer for quite a big deal. We've got looped in with Jules O'Rearin, and then someone says, You do, do you do know who that is? I said, Yeah, he's the music lawyer. He said, No, it's Judge Jules. He said, Do you need to realise now why he's called Judge Jules? And I thought, clearly a man of many talents, because his his understanding of the legalities of of music laws and then putting on all these parties, clearly a he's a really nice guy as well, love lovely chap.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. I'm with him on New Year's Day, in fact, in Nottingham for uh the NG1 for judgment um Sunday, so starting the new year with Jules and the Insomniacs team, so that'll be cool.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, we were at NG1 a few years ago, one of the lads that I managed, Nick, who does groove box. Um he's good mates with Fergie. I think they go right the way back. And yeah, he booked Sasha. I think Sasha was one of his big big bucket lists, and he managed to get him through a good prize because he was at Fabric the same weekend, and then yeah, my cousin, who's a good like progressive house producer, he took over from Sasha, and I think my cousin was like, Yeah, never expected that to happen. I mean, he's pretty in terms of progressive house, other than like a John Digweed, he is like the Messiah, for sure, isn't he? Yeah, to be fair.
SPEAKER_00I remember seeing used to see him um and Digweed in uh in Birmingham actually on a Wednesday night at decadence today all those years ago. Yeah, as well, isn't it?
SPEAKER_03If you don't mind me asking as well, without it being too much of a curveball and putting you on the spot, and once again not in a patronising way, but because of the amount of years that you've spent like as as a woman in the industry, have your experiences as a whole generally been positive, or have you have you had certain moments when you've had to push back and stand your ground a little bit more? Because it is quite a male-dominated industry, that's it. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I never kind of went into it looking at it as any different. It was just the best person wins the DJs.
SPEAKER_03That's the best way to do it, and that's why I've got so much respect for you. I'm not, you know, I've worked, I've I worked with female artists, I've I've worked with female artists, and I do believe, you know, you've got to support, you know, like women and and not just leave them to fend for their own core, and once again, not in a patronise when I say that women can't defend themselves or stand up for themselves, but as we know, it is a male-dominated industry. Yeah, but I'm still very much a big believer in talent and meritocracy. And like you said, you were very good on the decks, which that's what took you further than I think sometimes, not in a stereotypical way, and it does happen a bit nowadays, and it happens across the board. You have you have white lads from upper class backgrounds that come from privilege, and they manage to get to a certain level, and there's a lot of different narratives at the moment. And for me, especially as a booker and programmer, people will look when a lineup goes out and go, Oh, well, you haven't got X on there or Y or Z on there, and it's a lot no, but you don't understand the processes, it's a ticket selling business, it's it's a talent buying business, and there's a lot of politics that goes on where maybe you know woman I wanted to book wasn't free, or they won't go back to back with that person because they don't align. And it's like people will just instantly look at a flyer, jump to conclusions and say, Oh, you're a misogynist, you're this and that. Well, no, it's it's not as simple as that. It really isn't.
SPEAKER_00And I don't think that you, you know, you should have to put people on. You the the talent, you should book them by the talent if you've closed your eyes and listen to what they're doing, whatever, it doesn't matter who you are, male or female. I think, I think that kind of thing. And even though I have done some like female kind of events and stuff, and I do like to put on a majority of females, but they're because they're my friends and stuff like I the first lash was um you know, kind of an all-girls lineup, and I love that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and there's not there's nothing wrong with that either.
SPEAKER_00But it wasn't intentional, it wasn't I wasn't no, actually, Rob Sarah was there, so kind of all girl, but Rob. Love Rob. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it there is some things that do frustrate me, and I you know, I don't like to get into the back and forth, especially unnecessary arguments on social media, I try and avoid drama as much as I can, which, as we both know, is not always possible in the music business. The when when you start climbing the ladder and the politics and the egos are involved, sometimes it's opinions from Yeah, you you can't escape it. But when sometimes, you know, got nothing against, you know, like championing women, you know, giving people a platform instead of it just being an all-boys club, I'm not I'm not for that at all. But when you have certain narratives that are pushed where it's apparently about equality and inclusion and diversity, but then it becomes oh no, but you can only come here if you're that blah blah blah. Sure, does that not contradict the whole point of it? It should be ideally in in an ideal world, in a you know, probably not going to happen whilst we would love it to, is you could have 33.33% that, and then yeah, but obviously it doesn't always work out like that, but yeah, there's there's some aspects that I think I sit there and I'm like, well, if it's meant to be purely about equality, the narrative that you're pushing actually does contradict what you claim to stand for. It doesn't exactly but I think sadly nowadays, with a lot of this woke cancel culture, and especially it gets quite toxic on social media.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_03Obviously, now I can explain things properly vocally, but when you write something out, words get twisted, it gets misconstrued, and then people are like, oh well no, you you actually meant that, and then the whole cancer culture train tries coming for you. Which I'm not don't get me wrong, if you do something, if you say something completely out of order, you know, whether you're racist or anything along those lines, then you should be held accountable. But yeah, oh people they'll hold you to account. Yeah, well understand me, but there's certain things I'm just like, can't we just have an adult discussion here and debate and come to a right outcome that benefits everybody?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. But yeah, and sadly, we don't seem to live in a sort of quite negative though, aren't they? On especially on socials and stuff. And I I hate that kind of you know, that that style of kind of communication because it is really I'm I mean, I'm so grateful that my kind of supporters and followers, they are just so fucking nice. Yeah, just everything that I do, they'll always back me the hearts and this and they're probably like two or three that who haven't got a profile picture that'll be mean, but I'm not bothered about that.
SPEAKER_03I think a lot of that culture does get created by from the top down the likes of yourself, like the energy that you put out and being a good person, and that trickles down, whereas if you've got a massive ego and you're not a very nice person, well, funny enough, that's probably the kind of people that you're gonna attract.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. Yeah, no, I I try to be the you know, I'm 100% grateful to still be in this music industry 30 years later. It's ridiculous. If I thought of young me, that's what you're gonna be doing. I didn't even know from day to day what it was. Doing it, just I just went with the flow. Yeah, and um, I think a lot of good luck and places that my manager was, um, and agents were, you know, they were in the scenes, they were down in London, they were, you know, everything you need people like yourself and good managers out there.
SPEAKER_03That that's one thing, and not being biased just because I'm a manager to say, Oh, you definitely need a manager, because there are certain artists I think you can be self-sufficient if you're not at a certain level. Obviously, the level that you got to, I think, when you're running it is a business, you know, in terms of you know, like the touring aspect, the record label, you can't do everything yourself, otherwise you would burn out. And there's probably the main areas you need to focus on as a DJ and producer that might suffer because of you trying to do everything. But yeah, how how how important do you do you think it is, you know, for artists in terms of having that team around you?
SPEAKER_00A team is uh parallel with what you do, really. You know, I'm so grateful that I have like a really good team now of music side of people, have a good agent and manager, and um yeah, it makes things easier, you know, and better. And and you because I still want to be creative, I still want to go, well, what should we do this at the last event? Should we do that? And people can put that into place. I can't necessarily do all that because it'll be too much for me, but um but you've got to rely on a really good team, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, just I think yeah, it's a shame. I've I've seen you know, there's some artists, particularly James Paul, who I managed, he played with John Summit at Coco in London, and I met his managers, and they're absolutely amazing. I mean, the trajectory that John's been on selling out Madison Square Gardens and everything else, it's absolutely incredible. But yeah, so that probably would not even though John is a workhorse and he's got an incredible work ethic, and I mean his touring alone is absolutely insane. Never mind. Yes, you know, like the the studio time he spent, he spent time with Mickey Slims, Eddie Jenkins, where they were recording certain records and everything else that just goes into being an artist day to day. But a lot of that does also come down to I think I mentioned it on the last podcast is the whole together everyone achieves more. It's like if you've got a good team around you instead of just being trying to be a one-man band at a certain level, is yeah, it's not possible, you know. You'll end you'll end up having probably a mental breakdown. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00Well, this is kind of like why I wanted to do the school as well, was because all my friends, you know, BK was one of my main uh tutors. Um, you know, we had MC um I can't remember his name, sorry. Um so you know, we had all the people that were doing tour and doing this, all the tracks were out. Jeremy Ryot was one of our um amazing kind of tutors. He went off to, we'd have like a cohort of 13 to 15 year olds and they'd be like that. And I'd say, What have you been doing in the weekend? That kind of thing. And you'd just go, Oh, well, I went to Australia and I played Australia Friday and Saturday. They'd be like, you know what I mean? No, you didn't. It'd be like, yeah. So we gave them a different mindset because their teacher is doing what they potentially want to do rather than them being in trouble for trying to sell drugs or whatever. You can actually, you can actually kind of make a good living out of music if you if you do it right.
SPEAKER_03And I think that's where obviously clearly you're switched on, you understand the business and strategy side, and I think that's where the amount of people I've seen sadly come and go over the last 10 years, is a lot of it is people will, even on their day ones, that are actually switched on business and strategy wise, they'll they'll change their team, they get a little bit a little bit egotistic. And I understand if you if you have and got the right people in your corner in terms of an agent or manager, if they don't necessarily have your best interests in mind, or they're maybe not at that level, and you think, oh, actually, I need to work with someone at a high level. I do understand that because certain instances where people start out, oh you know, my my my friend's dealing with this for the moment, yeah. But then you get to a certain level you think, oh, you know, not quite capable of being at that level, which I do get it, is yeah, business is business, it's not always nice, but you have to do what's right for yourself.
SPEAKER_02Yep.
SPEAKER_03But yeah, I've I've seen so many people come and go who had the potential to go really far, but they haven't got the right people in their corner, you know, even well the agents can be I mean agent gets too greedy. I'm not tarring agents all with the same brush because probably a few agents watching this to be honest. I do a lot of business with agents, and some of them are amazing, but there's some of them like you're not being very realistic here, especially in the current economic climate in Birmingham. We're not in Kensington and Chelsea here that as to what you think the artist is worth. And don't don't get me wrong, especially someone who's an artist yourself. I do understand that there's there's also bad promoters out there who can be a little bit naughty, and you know, you have to respect when an artist is worth tickets what their financial worth is. Yeah, but also think it needs to work both ways, and that was the mad thing during COVID. It was like we're all in this together mentality and culture, and then as soon as the floodgates opened, that soon went and it went back to almost it went back to being even worse because they were trying to recuperate all the money that was lost.
SPEAKER_00I mean, one thing in COVID which was really quite annoying was um, you know, people were trying to do the Facebook kind of streams and stuff like that, and then um they got taken down, didn't they? Like their music, like I I was up to sort of weekly 250,000 people or more um minimum joining me every Saturday night. Um and then obviously the um the music started to get rooted in certain areas. Well you can't do you can't do a mix for two hours when you've got muted kind of stuff. So I had to come away from that in the end, you know. And I didn't really like that because that was a lot of people's not just the DJs, but also the audience. That was that.
SPEAKER_03Kept them sane to an extent and it's a lot of people.
SPEAKER_00And they were all chatting in the chat box and stuff like that, you know. It was um, you know, uh one of the DJs said it was the first time she's ever been at home on a Saturday and wanted to be. She'd never ever thought that uh sister yes, she's she never thought that the government or anybody could stop her from going out to do what she loves, and she never had that thought of like, what am I gonna do now? I don't know what to do. You know, a couple of years that's what a lot of the artists were, weren't they?
SPEAKER_03Very, very mentally testing time, even if someone who, you know, I'm not a DJ or a producer, but even being in a nightclub pretty much every weekend for the last 10 years, it's like it feels like your second home, and it's like even the community aspect, not necessarily just enjoying the music. And then when that gets taken away from you, it was a it was a very roller coaster time mentally.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean creative industry people can be quite um they need to have that that outlet, yeah. They need to have those people around them, they don't want to be on their own and stuff, you know. I mean, I'm quite happy to be isolated, I don't mind. Yeah, I'm I'm I'm quite similar to you.
SPEAKER_03I like the the in the intensity of being in a couple of several thousand people, but then withdrawing and going back to peace and quiet, it is it is quite nice having that drawing as well. No, no partner, which won't get into that, no, no, no kids or anything like that. I'm like, yes, this is actually really quite nice.
SPEAKER_00Getting on my bike round the resie and it doesn't matter, so it's fine.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Sure, with the fact that you know still very much relevant, 30 years deep in the game and everything that you have been through, like even pardon me, eras-wise, you know, like no social media, then you've got social media, the way that the landscape's changed musically. Like, what advice would you have for someone who's, I suppose, maybe starting out now and looking to stand the test of time and constantly evolve?
SPEAKER_00I mean, it I would say, first of all, is to wherever your hometown is, go out and see what is going on in that town. You can't you can't really expect to um be in a scene where you're not taking that effort to get out your house, go and meet these people, go and give some USBs out, do that kind of thing. You've got to to support your scene and then try and get to know the promoters or the clubs and things like that. To start a small place, you're not gonna just be going straight into fabric next week or doing this or doing that. There is there's work to be done. And um, I always like the camel fat um quote where it said uh it took them 25 years to be an overnight success. You know, it it takes that long.
SPEAKER_03Mark Descala was one half of Ultra Beat. He wasn't it and it's fair, like producer-wise, absolutely phenomenal. Yes when you look at it. I'm sure that got really high in the charts, pretty green eyes.
SPEAKER_00I think so back in the day.
SPEAKER_03You look at some of the videos, bless him early naughty, when he's in his shirt and he's he's he's singing the vocals, because he's his vocals, I'm sure it is. It is, yeah, he's on stage of like you know, like the Darren Styles era, which when I was at school in Treesburg 2005, everyone was very much hard hardcore was the main scooter, Darren Styles. Which to be fair, Darren Styles actually he he's gone more into the harder sounds.
SPEAKER_00He's gone more clubland kind of like really hard kind of stuff, isn't it?
SPEAKER_03Good times, a bit of nostalgia.
SPEAKER_00Massive audiences they're pulling in, like thousands doing battles.
SPEAKER_03It's a completely different world that most people don't see, and this is where I've got to broaden my horizons and look across the spectrum, is because I'm very much like house, tech house techno, and it's like no, there is a completely different world out there and demographics of people that it might not necessarily be my cup of tea, but it's business, and then there's an audience there you need to tap into. Yeah, it's it's it's very interesting and yeah, it's definitely a big point. Is I always try and help people where I can. I'm certainly no genius, far from it. But when people message me on the likes of LinkedIn who probably see that I went from a corporate career to then move moving into music, and I'm like, really appreciate the DM, but you need to make the effort to go down physically because you imagine how many people in the music business, not just you, me, not saying I have that many people sliding my DMs, certainly not attractive women, unfortunately, anyway. But yeah, it's just like making an effort to physically go down and work out who is the promoter, who is the DJ, and actually networking and making the effort. And it a lot of it is consistency and being a face, and even D and Will, my gaffers at the club, it's like the amount of people who think that sometimes we've only been around for five minutes, it's like mate, we've been in this business for over 30 years, putting on raids since we were 18, we've lost money, we've made money, we've been at it every single weekend in the trenches.
SPEAKER_00Um they don't realise what it takes to put on a party either. Do you know what I mean? It's just like, oh, open the doors, there we go, book a DJ, there lets everyone in. Like there's massive, massive expenses, massive uh this, that and the other, isn't there?
SPEAKER_03What what advice would you have? I suppose a lot of it does come back to social media and marketing about if you're trying to make it now compared to when you were trying to make it when you were coming through.
SPEAKER_00Well, I think there's so many people now, unfortunately. There is um everyone wants to be a DJ, so that's going up, the club events and are going down, you know, so you've got like an that way outdoes that. And um so it's difficult, so you've got to stand out, you gotta you gotta, but you've also gotta stay in your lane. Like, you know, I'm hard house through and fro, I'm back staying in my lane. There might be a little detour here or there, but find out what you're passionate about. What what you put a track on and you go, I love this, I wanna play this to people, you know, and and believe in yourself as well. Know that because I used to I went for a time thinking like, but I'm choosing this music to go on a compilation or or to play out. What about if they don't like it? You know, what what same I'm how come I can find that track that they I know they will dance to, but you've you've you've also got to find what you're good at as well, you know. If you're not the best DJ, probably find something else that you could do. But there's thousands and thousands of jobs in the in in the creative industry, something that'll align with you, you know. Yeah. You just gotta take the first step of out your comfort zone and um yeah, do what you can do.
SPEAKER_03Definitely. I think, yeah, like you said, staying true to yourself is a big thing. I think don't get me wrong, there is financial gains that can be made when people go down certain paths where they they see a gap in the market, but it's not necessarily them. But I still think in terms of long-term happiness, I mean, don't I wrong, we all like a pound note and we all want to live a more comfortable life. Like you you came from a very humble upbringing, so did I as well. Is you you're naturally going to want to work harder, think, well, I don't just want to settle for that my whole entire life. But yeah, I think long-term that happiness, and I have seen it before where people probably want to be a bit more underground, but then they go full-blown commercial, and then we know how clicky it can get at times in political, where when you're in a certain part of the ecosystem, they think, no, we're not booking them. But I mean, like you said yourself, in terms of the hard house, you very much know I'm sticking to my guns, this is what I'm about. And I don't think sometimes the journey might take longer, but I think I mean even Taylor Vuzz um will indeed used to book them when Terminal that's a branded lab 11 used to be in jewelry quarter, yeah. And Taylor Bus, you know, they were pioneering a sound and pushing a sound where no one was into it. Like you'd be lucky to get 200, 300 people on the dance floor, but because they're trying to create a legacy, they're trying to pioneer a sound, create their own lane. I mean, now they're doing the sphere in Las Vegas, selling out Tulum Mexico in Ibetha, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_00It was just like wow, yeah.
SPEAKER_03The visuals are absolutely incredible. I went not last year, the year before with some of my best friends. Probably it's up there, maybe to be fair, this year was incredible in Ibiza, but wasn't last year, it was the year before, and yeah, we went to Taylor Buzz, and yeah, there's the way that they build it journey from the warm-up to just everyone's just staying on the dance floor, you get your little area and no one's moving, and that's perfect, you know.
SPEAKER_00They're just there for the music and and for that kind of community thing, I suppose, isn't it?
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But I love that.
SPEAKER_03Who I mean it's interesting, who who have you had like a lot of respect for, like peer-to-peer over the years where you've kind of given the nod and thought, you know what, fair play, they've kind of stuck to their guns and they've really stayed true to themselves.
SPEAKER_00Um I don't well, for I I kind of like don't really kind of go out as much, you know, to kind of um see people play and whatever, but um you know, anybody who's out there doing their own thing kind of, you know, and and all respect to kind of like the the girls and the boys from the school that are stuck to music and they've given have been given a little footfold into there, and you know, I I love I love to see that. I love to you know you can tell you can just towel the creatives out there, you know, yeah, whatever it is about them, but I don't know what it is. Yeah, we're a different kind of breed, and I absolutely love it.
SPEAKER_03You know, no, definitely. I think what what would you say then, in a way, I mean to feel you might have already touched on it, like what do you think has helped you stand the test of time? Because there isn't many people that can say that they've even been able to do 10 years in the music business. I mean, even nowadays, with how cyclical and kind of conveyable, sadly, in a way, it's become a bit like pop stars the idols with Pete Waterman sat there at a table where it's like, oh yeah, that's that's on now, it's not relevant, and it's it can be that cutthroat, and even sadly not consumer-wise now with the the TikTok culture. I mean, don't get me wrong, I use TikTok, it's great for organic, but it can be very fickle at times. Like, what what do you think has helped you stand as a trend?
SPEAKER_00I think, do you know what? Being a good person, showing gratitude, um, doing the best you can. Um, you know, it it is a job for me. I do like I don't just go with my USB and go, oh, I'm gonna play like on uh next Saturday, da da, whatever. I literally will do three or four days of just downstairs in my basement, just one track after another, after another, recording, recording. Do about probably about seven hours of recording a week, listen back to it in the car and stuff like that. I am kind of a perfectionist and want to do that, so I think that shows as well, though, that you're picking out the best tracks that you can you know play on that at that time for those people. And I al and I do think about the crowd, I'm not always thinking about I love that track. I'll I will look around. I'll probably like this weekend and playing at Ministry Sound. I've probably got I'm playing for an hour, but I'll have seven hours worth of tracks because do you know what I mean? And it'll be like, right, okay, uh that track could take me on to that level or that track could take me on there. I'll go early to see what the other DJ is playing, always be considerate and caring about, you know, on won't play a track, Glassby track if he's about to play after me, you know, that kind of thing. Etiquette.
SPEAKER_03I think sometimes people do forget that I've seen it once or twice, and I haven't booked them, but you kind of had your head in hands, like you can see the person that's up next, and you've just played their probably biggest record, what is going through your mind. I think sad is sometimes people try and do it as a bit of a homage, and it's like, no, you're going about it in the complete wrong way, sad.
SPEAKER_00Didn't the guy do it in Tomorrowland before what's it went on, didn't he? I'm not sure.
SPEAKER_03I know someone someone did it at ADE on a boat party and it did not go down very well. Yeah. Which I can understand if you literally just released the record and you're waiting to do that moment for like especially content purposes, and someone's done it before, it's like you knew what you were doing, why have you just took away all my magic?
SPEAKER_00Thanks for that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we'll always have an edit, like a different edit, though.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I try and do. It's true, it's true.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03What would you say looking back have been probably very, very difficult to pick, you know, like when you'll reflect and think that was a real standout moment in terms of gigs? What would you say is up there?
SPEAKER_00I suppose um festivals, you know, they're stand out. Like when I played for my first festival in the UK, which was Homelands down in Winchester, I think that was when it was like, wow, 10,000 people in you know, in a tent was like. How did that feel?
SPEAKER_03Is it is it quite overwhelming? Absolutely, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I mean, I'm literally shaking, you know, in my stilettos back in the day. But um, and I remember it was uh that was quite interesting because it was rain, she came on after me. I just took your steels off, it started to pee down, um, and the tent was just starting to have a drip and it was going right into the back of the deck, ding ding, and I was playing vinyl. So every time I but but shit like that, I couldn't wait to come off. I was like, ah, like trying, yeah, I get electric shock each time, but um managed to do it in the end. But um, yeah, I mean, I mean there's been some amazing moments like Johannesburg playing on a sugar um uh sorry, uh where was he? Where's Sugar Love Mountain?
SPEAKER_03Good question. I've not been to South Africa, but we had Fem Fember, the Afro House producer, who's part of Black Coffee's crew. We booked him a couple of months ago and we took him to dinner beforehand, and it's I was talking about South Africa the other day, so I've been fortunate to go to some like amazing countries rather than just you know Lanzarote or Teleri. I'd rather go to places like that because he's got very great history, raw culture, and yeah, he's from Johannesburg, and yeah, I I think he still lives there now, even though he tours a lot and a lot of back and forth. That's home.
SPEAKER_00I played in a cave in Johannesburg, and it was like hand your guns in here, you know, you know, you could just see all these massive guns like can you take me straight home after, please? Do you know what I mean? It's like a very scary culture. But um, yeah, and I played Sun Coming Up in Sydney over the harbour bridge, that kind of thing, you know, and thinking to yourself.
SPEAKER_03Is this my life? Yeah, it's insane, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, I was gonna say it makes all the traveling, the sacrifices worth it for those moments.
SPEAKER_00And the amount of people that you meet in these different places, and you can go back there, and like you say, they turn into family, you know. We've got family all over the world now that I love.
SPEAKER_03That's what I love about DC 10. It's like because a lot of industry people go to IB3, it's like that's my holiday, my downtime. So you can double up on the networking, and then you'll be backstage, you think it's like it's like everyone, it just draws everybody in, and then you'll say, Oh, I've met him a few years ago in Switzerland and met them in France. Yeah, it's it's really nice.
SPEAKER_00And of course, they're gonna come gravitate to you if there's something that you want, they've already met you, so you've taken time out to be in that space to um yeah, it's four connections and to connect. So that I love that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, definitely. For sure. What would you say are the plans for 2026? Obviously, you mentioned the album. Have you finished the album now?
SPEAKER_00No, I've just gone through 155 tracks um that consideration for that, so we'll get them licensed. Hopefully, it will be before what January time. So um that will come out the Orange Euphoria. So it's kind of a retake on that, but a couple of remixes in there, um, because that was the biggest sad in hard house uh late uh CD compilation that did that went platinum. Um and because uh so Big Brother started the year that that came out 25 years ago, and um Divina Sony, yeah, exactly, because Sony uh BMG had put the first advert on the first Big Brother, and it was my advert. Like I was like clicking the vinyls like this.
SPEAKER_03I didn't realise that. Yeah, so we need to get you in celebrity big brother the next one. I used to love that when me, my dad, and my brother um used to go on holiday. I remember we were watching it because everyone everyone was transfixed, and it wasn't it like such a such an out there concept. And I can't remember whether it was because Kate was it Kate Lawler who won it. She's a presenter for Kerrang, presenter for Kerrang now, isn't she? And I remember I wanted someone else to win it. My dad and my brother when he I think she won. She did. And I remember it's pathetic. I remember crying like, no, okay. We're in just we're in this restaurant in Lanzarote, and all the Spaniards must be looking at us like fucking English. Like what are they doing? Yeah, incredible.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, she's cool, she's a cool DJ as well.
SPEAKER_03So you met her a few times, I'd be okay.
SPEAKER_00Oh nice, yeah, amazing. Um yeah, in Sweden and stuff, that was pretty cool. But um, yeah, it's it's cool. And now we've got Pete as well, Pete Bennett from Big Brother. He's gone for threats. Yeah, yeah, so he's coming through now, making some of the stuff.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I think full circle moments all around.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. So he's playing for me in Spain when I'm doing the Didey weekend thing.
SPEAKER_03So that's pretty cool. Like in it, some cool stories on there, to be fair. Can't can't deny that. I would say, other than well, I'd say obviously the likes of going on tour with with Grace Jones and the Weather Girls, what have been some of your moments when you've looked back and you thought, is this actually happening? Like you must have had some pretty big curveball moments.
SPEAKER_00I would say um taking a USB over to Carl Cox at space three years ago, and um tracks that I started making techno just at home in my pajamas, actually, like in my in my DJ room. Um just having a little go making techno because I love techno as well. And um I went over to see him for I think it was like 11 weeks on the drop. Gave him a USB. Um this was when um there was Kylie Minogue, um, a couple of big supermodels and stuff there, and he literally played my track one after the other. Like, and I was like, I heard it coming in, I was like thinking, shit, like I hope I've given him the right one. He hasn't even checked it, do you know what I mean? He's brought me into the box and I've got to be able to get it.
SPEAKER_03I was saying this, I think it was the last yeah, I think it was one of the last podcasts with with Rujay, who were had you put do you remember Ru? Yeah, I think from back in the yeah, yeah. So I was saying for me personally, I mean you look at The eras that Carl Cox has been through. I mean, he's got to be probably joint best ever, really. To go through Assy House, hardcore techno and still now be very much at the top of his game from what mid 80s, late 80s.
SPEAKER_00The eclipsing Coventry and stuff when he was young, he was like resident there, wasn't he? That was crazy.
SPEAKER_03Built differently, to be fair. Such a nice guy as well. I didn't want to be too much of a fanwork, so I appreciated when I met him in January and then obviously been doing a tour of South America. His tour manager, um, older chap was there, really nice gentleman as well. And I can understand the South American promoters didn't really want me speaking to myself. No, I'm not gonna hass him. I was like, I'm a promoter as well. Yeah, and I spoke to him because he obviously does the motor racing in the Isle of Man T T and I've got a family in the Isle of Man.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_03And then Robbie Doherty, who we manage, he played one of Robbie's B-sides on a newer label. And you think the guy's still a digger even now, he's still digging for records and yeah, just um Fruit Lockdown.
SPEAKER_00He was doing doing all his baking his banana bread and then going on the decks and stuff, wasn't he? He used to message me actually um because he was in I think he's Melbourne, uh, Fruit Lockdown. And obviously he was waking up at that time in the morning, I was still playing on the live stream kind of thing, and he used to send me messages going, I love this. And I'd be like, Oh, come on.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's just nice to see when people get to that level in any industry, not just the music business, but they're still they'll still make time for me. He didn't have to make time for me, he was coming out of a I mean, I wasn't stood by the portal, I waited for him to come out and I said, No, excuse me, I'm sorry to bother you. But I understand if the guy's knackered from touring South America, he'd come not now, mate. And I do get it. Yeah, no, he wouldn't, he would, he would never do that. And you know, f full respect to him for for still being, you know, such such a lovely guy.
SPEAKER_00He is even now, just lives and breathes music, married to the music. I went I when I went to hand the USB in, I was all I'd add it around my neck with loads of necklaces on, I couldn't get it off. It was all one of those horribless. Um but he was cool, he'd like everyone kind of left the room, and um I was just having a chat with him and stuff, and that's when he like played the tracks, and I was went there and I was like, Oh, I'm thinking about because I'm playing techno, play, you know, changing my name, and I don't know. He went, never change your name, never be uh embarrassed of anything that you've done in the past. I don't know, you are who you are, you're allowed to move on and do whatever you want. So if you want to play techno, you keep your name. And he played my track that he signed to InTech, digital, um, for 18, 18 uh weeks progressively. Nice. Yeah, and then he got much better, doesn't it? So that's one of those moments. You're like, what do you say?
SPEAKER_03I remember I I did a podcast with his personal visual artist, uh Habs. Yeah, Habs, yeah. So yeah, someone put me in touch with him during COVID and it was brilliant speaking to him, and he was saying in obviously in intense touring lifestyle, even though Carl's very much, you know, like sober, probably does one beer max if he does a marathon set and a slice of pizza. But he said, even then, you know, you're coming out of space and you've got to fly on a private jet straight away, and he was like, it was intense. Yes. He was referring to that period of space, but it was very much glamour models and superstars, and I think because they were good friends with is it Afrojack in Paris Hilton? Yes, was with him. I think it was Afrojack, if I stand corrected, someone will correct me if I'm wrong, I'm sure. But I think she'd just broken up with him and she was trying to get in the box and that and it was like no, and he said it was quite a satisfying feeling. Me, just little old visual art in house going to Paris Hilton, not tonight love.
SPEAKER_00Not tonight love, yeah, exactly. Brilliant. Oh man, yeah. Yeah, have Zapcrum. So we did a little Indonesian tour actually. He did my visuals.
SPEAKER_03Amazing. Yeah, so the industry is a very small place. Very small place. For sure. Sure. Is is there anything I've missed or you would like to cover? I feel like we have done quite well there.
SPEAKER_00To be fair, yeah. Well, maybe just 2026, come and see me play, man. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Where can people say you've got a lot of gigs already in the diary? Where can we catch you gigs-wise, and what are your socials handles?
SPEAKER_00So um obviously I'm on Facebook, obviously I'm on Instagram, DJ Least. Um, I'm on TikTok uh now, so that's a I kind of started that four months ago, up to 50.
SPEAKER_03How are you finding in the world of TikTok?
SPEAKER_00I don't mind it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00You know, sometimes I use their little kind of videos and stuff and then pop them over onto Insta. That when goes to Facebook, I'm like, today's done.
SPEAKER_03I think there's always been this perception, I was probably guilty of it, oh, TikTok's for kids, but I think people realise compared to even though you've got about 130,000 fans on Facebook on your uh artist page, and just nowadays it feels up because it's quite difficult to cut through the noise in Facebook and Instagram, TikTok a lot more people are transitioning over there. And we've got Goldie at Lab 11 Sister Venue 12 this Saturday, and we did uh he was stood at he came over from Thailand and he did a little walkthrough video outside 12, which used to be I can't remember what it was over the top of my head. It's before my time, but you there obviously there's been several different names for the venue on Broad Street in Wolverhampton over the years, and people were surprising amount of uh like older demographic, mature ravers, old school ravers that were commenting, and it clearly shows a lot of people now are transitioning more over to TikTok.
SPEAKER_00So loads of people have said, Oh my god, you're on here, da da da da da, but probably not even on Facebook or Instagram. Oh, I remember seeing you, da da da, remember seeing you here. So for me, it's been like a really nice kind of embracing all the people that have seen me around the world and stuff, and it is worldwide, you know. Yeah. We've been like, when are you coming to Australia? When are you coming there? Well, give me a break. Yeah, I was gonna say I need a bit of a break now.
SPEAKER_03I've given enough of my song over the years. Give me a break. So, yeah, what what about Giggswise then financially? What are you looking forward to?
SPEAKER_00So um I'm got a last event at the end of January at the Titanic venue in Belfast. So that'll be that'll be really cool. That's amazing. Yeah, I really, really enjoy that with um Nutorious Events, I think that one is.
SPEAKER_03Um they love the harder stuff in Ireland and Northern Ireland as well, don't you?
SPEAKER_00Titan's been a favourite of mine to play for. They're just they're just in it to win it from the minute they walk in, and I absolutely love it, you know. Just like just the friendliest, happiest kind of crowd, you know what I mean? So yeah, it's one of my favourite places. Um yeah, and just doing uh, as I said, God's Kitchen. I've got uh Tidy Trax event over in Spain for a lashed event there. Um yeah, loads loads of different Southampton, Bournemouth just done, Ministry Sound in London this weekend. So and then um a lash party at Coco with Frantic um in the summer next year as well.
SPEAKER_03So Cocoa London. Yeah, amazing. Yeah, so we that's an amazing venue. Oh really?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's amazing. Like you still want me. No, I love it.
SPEAKER_03I love it.
SPEAKER_00Just go on yeah, Facebook, t TikTok, whatever, DJ Lee Slash is all the way to it.
SPEAKER_03No, amazing. But yeah, we'll wrap it up there. But thank you very much, Lisa. Big love, thank you very much for coming on. Thank you. Thank you.