Creative Minds

Bradley Gunn Raver - Why I Left The Music Industry

• Callum Hughes

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0:00 | 56:59

Bradley Gunn Raver was a viral sensation in the music industry, known for his care free dance moves at raves & advocacy of sober raving.

Brad travelled the world raving & collaborated with some of the most reputable music & media brands including Mixmag, Ministry of Sound, BBC Three, Pioneer & IMS to name a few.

This is Brad's first podcast since deciding to leave the music industry just before Covid-19, and he spokes openly & honestly about his reasons why.

We also discuss Brad's Asperger's diagnosis and spinning this into a positive through raving, his upbringing, career away from music in the world of programming, his relationships with some of the worlds biggest artists in electronic music & how life has been since stepping away from the music industry.

*Please note there was a slight technical issue with the audio in the first 9 minutes, so it doesn't sound as clear as usual.*

'Amazing Humans' BBC Three Documentary - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSx_v0klPUM

Bradley Gunn Raver: Love Life and Rave I Mixmag Originals - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1zho_DM7Hg

Creative Minds YouTube Channel: @CreativeMindsPodcastUK

Creative Minds Instagram: creativeminds_podcast

Creative Minds TikTok: creative.minds..uk

SPEAKER_00

This is the Creative Minds podcast. So today is a world exclusive with my good friend Bradley Gunn Raver, who's now Bradley Gunn Sailor. You might see him on Instagram. We met 10 years ago now, and I'm sure many of you who rave here, there, and everywhere around the world remember Brad as an advocate of sober raving and someone who probably spent more time raving than I did in an office, to be honest. So yeah, absolute privilege to have him on the Creative Minds podcast today. Just before we start, any likes and subscribes to likes the YouTube channel or the short form content, always greatly appreciated. So yeah, Brad, it's good to see you, mate. It's been a while.

SPEAKER_03

It has been a long time. I reckon it's been over six years now.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Um, yeah, really good to see you. Yeah, likewise, mate.

SPEAKER_00

I think the last time we met, even though it was obviously virtual, was during COVID. Obviously, we did a podcast then, but I think that would have about a year after you decided to part ways with the Raven lifestyle. Like 2020, I think it was. Yeah, yeah, I think there's been a bit of a loss of time since then to trying to trying to keep track of everything. So, how have you been since you know you parted ways from Bradley Gun Raver to Bradley Gun? Kind of no longer sailor either, but the Instagram name must remain.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, it's been it's been an interesting journey since it all stopped. Um I think lockdown was a bit of a blur. Of course, when I stopped it, I was going through a bit of a mental health sort of journey in that respect. Um I think I'm in a in a good place now. That's good. Um bit of changed. I think a lot of that came from lockdown. Well, lockdown certainly didn't aid it. Yeah. You know. Uh quite interesting enough, I remember when I stopped it in 2019 and then lockdown got announced, I was like, oh.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Maybe I wish I didn't stop that now. But it's all stopped and you can't do it anyway. So Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

No, yeah, yeah. I get you. So what have you been up to since then?

SPEAKER_03

Different lifestyle, probably par opposite, and yeah, so obviously so I I changed my username to Bradley Gun Sailor when it all stopped, and well, I had been doing sailing as a child, so I just got back into that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Um but that didn't actually last that long. Um due to just I just didn't have time to go and do it. Um so then of course I got into the swing of changing my username around things, but at that point, um the because at the time the only reason I was able to change my username was because you have a blue badge and you have to request it.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

That that's all been taken away now. Oh I don't have the the rights to contact them anymore. So just left it as that. Um and then I mainly just concentrated on building human connection with people because um when I was raving, I had a lot of a lot of people I knew, um, but no real meaningful relationships. And that's what I felt was really missing.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So over the last six years I've really focused on building those relationships.

SPEAKER_00

No, I I I I rate that and I respect that high, and it's it's definitely something that I've noticed when I've been doing various bits of music now for ten years, and you do realise, you know, you know a lot of people, but in terms of actual I mean, obviously, I'd like to think we we had a good connection as friends, it wasn't just a transactional business relationship, there was an actual friendship away from music, but I think that's something that the music industry is kind of guilty of. Is that there's a lot of transactional relationships rather than meeting for friendship.

SPEAKER_03

The rehearsal of everything being transactional.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So it's just automatic.

SPEAKER_00

It's not how it's not healthy, is it, for the mind, regardless of the followers, you know, the the privileges that come with you know being able to travel the world, Raven, obviously in your instance, but then when you take a step back, you're like, is this actually really healthy for me?

SPEAKER_03

Like regardless of whether you're sober or not, it's like I was fully addicted to the social media stuff, and I was fully in that game.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. How how was that? Um taxing mentally.

SPEAKER_03

Well, it was because you you don't look at the social media and your brain's desperate to check it, and you're you're so used to posting everything you do.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Um, sort of like you're living a mirror image life. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you're not posting, you're not living.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, it's uh it's definitely it's definitely a double-edged sword, um, for sure. So what was the the moment, obviously, before we go right back, you know, in terms of like your childhood and then what got you into raving and etc. What was the kind of moment where the penny dropped where you were like, I'm done with this, I want to take a step back and just I don't want to be a part of it anymore?

SPEAKER_03

So it was a very specific event.

SPEAKER_00

What was it a specific event?

SPEAKER_03

It was a very specific event in Rotterdam. Okay. Um I remember I flew over. Um and I and I went over and I don't know, I was in a bit of a weird mindset that evening, and I went, do you know what? I don't want to go through the artist entrance. I just want to go through the main entrance and just feel normal.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So I started queuing up at the main entrance. And then um someone runs out. Yeah, someone who obviously works there, radios on and everything. Buddy, what what are you doing? Why are you queuing up at this entrance? Come come through the artist entrance. And then I was like, oh, okay. And then they were like, by the way, we've got camera people on site, so as soon as you're ready, we can we can get some content.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And I went, oh well now you've just stressed me out. Yeah. Because now all I'm thinking of is when am I gonna get this one-minute video? Yeah. And I was thinking, right, and then I was going in, and you know when you're in the the mind of I need to get some content, and then you're assessing it, like, is the lighting right, is the sound right, is the vibe right, all of that, and that was all that was going through my head for about an hour. I was going, I'm not actually enjoying this event, all I'm focusing on is getting that content.

SPEAKER_00

When all you wanted to go there for was to enjoy enjoy the event, hence why you didn't want to go through the artist. You wanted that feeling of normality again, and yeah, I I know what you mean. And I think sadly, it's a tough one because I suppose it is part of their job, but they probably see it as Brad's here, we know how big his presence is. What can we get out of Brad basically that's going to look good for our social media? But then they don't it's not probably not intense, so they don't realise the knock-on effect it has on you because you're like, I actually I want to actually enjoy the event, not be analyzed over analysing every aspect of uh what I need to do in exchange for it. So, yeah, was it just like throughout the night you were just like this is just too much now?

SPEAKER_03

I know it wasn't throughout the whole night. I got the I got the content and I posted it with the caption of loving this is a great event, and I thought, well, I'm not being very honest here, yeah. Because I've just said that I love this event and it's brilliant, but actually internally my feelings are quite the opposite.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And then I thought, why do people actually follow my page? Because they actually like the authenticity they like. And they're not just w watching a guy because he dances at festivals, there's actually a lot more than that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And I felt I was actually taking away the actual authenticity out of it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. No, I I respect that a lot, mate, because I think a lot of people, especially now with how much social media dictates the music energy, probably over the artist artistry in terms of whether you're a DJ or you're a producer. It's like a lot of people, because they're chasing that virality and more followers, more likes the dopamine hits, it's like, how authentic actually are you being? And it's like that's the thing, it's like unless you take a step back and you know you look, you you look in the mirror as cliche as that sounds, and you think, well, if I'm not being authentic, am I really happy with how I'm acting, what I'm putting out? So, yeah, I respect that, mate. A lot. Brief technical issue there, folks, but as they say, that's show business. So back to it. So yeah, I I mean I do respect highly the fact that you you recognised that authenticity element of your personal brand, and obviously that's what it was always built on. You you know, you were just being yourself, and that's why it got it got to where it was, so yeah, just taking off from where you were, mate.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I think also um obviously over the time I had witnessed just through everyone else witnessing, just other major players in the industry either falling down somehow and getting running mentally ill or something. And I was always like, well, I wouldn't like it to end like that and I'd like to leave this on a positive note and be very happy with the journey and see it as a positive rather than getting to a point where actually the journey outlives you, and then you as a result are messed up at the end.

SPEAKER_00

And that's the thing, it you start to realise it is it really worth it? It doesn't matter how many followers you've got, how much money in the bank, how big your house is like as cliche as it sounds, health health is wealth, and especially mental health. And if you burn out, well it's like you know, you're no good to anyone, especially yourself. You're like, well, is it really worth it? Probably not, to be honest. So was it so is it like after like that evening, like when you got back to the hotel, where you were just like, I feel like I just want to party? How how did that be?

SPEAKER_03

Well, there was a question I would always ask myself, and it would it would usually be at the end of the year, and I would ask myself, can I do this for another year? And if I do it for another year, am I still gonna be happy? And every time I asked myself that, I would say yes. And I made a promise to myself that as soon as the answer is no, you've got to stop it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So I said I'm very currently happy, but in a year I probably won't. Yeah. So at that point, you have to kind of respect your internal voice and go with it. Yeah. Even though at the time you don't know if it's the right choice or not.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, clearly it was, because like you say, you you feel now a lot happier in yourself, and clearly it was the right choice. You you listen to yourself and it was the right call.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I mean, right now I'm I'm very happy in myself and I'm quite happy. Back then I was also happy, but yeah. Difference is the the key thing is I'm still happy.

SPEAKER_00

So yeah, well I mean this is it's at the time, yeah, but it it's it's interesting, so I suppose I mean I'm I'm probably guilty of it. I don't think that far ahead. I just think I'll just keep keep pushing on, keep pushing on. You think, well, where am I going to be in one year, two years? I think when you think purely in terms of business goals rather than personal happiness and mindset, I think that's that's where a lot of people go wrong. And it is hard to strike that balance as well, as we know, not just in a music game, which is obviously taxing and it is very intense environment-wise in day to day.

SPEAKER_03

But um, yeah, the other thing though is my income wasn't dependent on it. So I have my job which I get my income from, and so I didn't actually have any big financial ties to the industry. Yeah. So my life wasn't dependent on it, which if you look at other people who are fully dependent on it, suddenly that conversation is a lot harder. It's not, am I still gonna be happy? It's what's the other options? Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00

Obviously, we uh when we first met, I remember you had a full-time job, and even though you were sober, the the travelling alone between you know even though you drive, you know, there's there's taxis, planes, trains, um, automobiles, yeah, is like that alone can be quite tiring. Did you find that was ever having a a knock-on effect with with your work? Like if you were busy all weekend and then you were going straight back into the swing of things.

SPEAKER_03

Uh I was very much in a rhythm. Yeah. So um, you know, if I was travelling that much now, God, I'd be worn out. Yeah, yeah. Um, but I was in such a rhythm with it that the the the journeying didn't feel taxing. However, uh in relation to my normal career, that was effectively just on pause. It wasn't going anywhere. You weren't being promoted, you weren't being demoted, you were just repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat. Um, and so it's only when I stopped raving did the progression actually restart. So it was effectively just you know, the work was just repeat until to serve the weekend.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, no, I've I've definitely been there, mate, when I did the finance career. I thought, realistically, if I'm out all weekend, am I gonna be like head of department? Probably not, to be honest. Yeah, but yeah, interesting. So I suppose it it makes sense then to go right back in terms of like your like childhood and teenage years. So when we first met, I know we met in Bristol. So like where did you grow up? Is it around Bristol, Bath? I see my research is impeccable here, as you can see.

SPEAKER_03

So I grew up around in the southwest, in the countryside, about 40 miles south of Bristol. Um there's a town called Cherbourne, which I'm from, it's it's there, which which I grew up around Dorset and Somerset.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's near Glastonbury.

SPEAKER_03

Uh yeah, Glastonbury's quite close.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, nice.

SPEAKER_03

Did you did you ever go?

SPEAKER_00

No.

SPEAKER_03

No. I've lived very close to it, yeah, I've never been. That's all right.

SPEAKER_00

Considering you're probably one of the most famous favors in the world, you live right by Glastonbury.

SPEAKER_03

By the time I heard about it, the tickets were gone. That was hell.

SPEAKER_00

Brilliant. So how do I know you said earlier on before w we we got onto the podcast you really kind of enjoy where you live in terms of the green space and just you feel very much at home? I do. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I've I've I've lived around um different places. I've lived in Bath, Bristol, Cardiff. But there's just something missing. I just never felt at home. And what's what I've realized, you know, now that I'm living back at home is just the sense of community and belonging is that is actually quite important.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, 100%. That's why people have said to me before about with the music stuff, you know, a lot of the gatekeepers, so to speak, are in London. But I've lived in concrete drums, I've lived in the city centre, and when you don't have that green space, and I think it is good in wage, you know, it's culturally diverse, but there is no real sense of community, it's very fragmented, like everyone just in million miles an hour, and it's like, well, it's not really healthy for for you.

SPEAKER_03

When no one smiles at each other, no one talks to each other, you just expect to be not liked, don't you?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, not really much of a positive to take away, is there? But yeah, I've I've definitely noticed the same since where I live now is being able to commute easily, but having that green space, there is much more of a sense of um community, and that's that's the thing. I I suppose it probably will be a recurring theme through this. Is you know, there's a lot of conversations nowadays around mental health, but then people don't take it back to basics and look at like, well, why is people's mental health not as good as probably what it should be? And that is probably a big reason. Is if if you're very isolated, you know, you can be in a massively built-up area where there's millions of people and everyone's on social media, but you are actually very disconnected and isolated um at the same time.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. It's interesting. How um obviously with the career that you've got now, um, obviously we won't go into too much detail. So it's like coding slash programming, it's not really my area of expertise.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I'm in so I'm in software engineering, so it's so it's um programming systems, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Nice, not my area of expertise, as you can tell. I would I wouldn't I wouldn't know where to start, mate, but yeah, it's uh it sounds very interesting. So were you always into that, you know, when you were at school and college, that's something you always had a passion with.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I've been set with that since since I was 12. Nice. So my whole schooling and and early years have been geared towards that. Nice.

SPEAKER_00

So I was quite lucky and I was gonna say most people don't know at 21, never mind 12 in terms of what they were doing. Nice. That's that's very as I say for that age, it's very, very, very forward thinking. How what was it that sparked the interest? Was there anything in particular?

SPEAKER_03

Um well my neighbour at the time showed me how to make rock, paper, scissors in in a con in a visual basic console window, which is quite an old programming language. Yeah. Um, and I just got taught how to build computers and it it was all just quite fascinating.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, no, it is fascinating. I mean, like I say, I I wouldn't know how to start, but it's yeah, something that definitely uh intrigues me.

SPEAKER_03

So, yeah, the benefit is yes, I you know knew what I wanted to do and I've gone down that path, but then I've not done anything else. So my actual experience is quite limited to that one.

SPEAKER_00

Here's the question if you weren't gonna be other than being a raver, if you weren't gonna be a software engineer, what would you have been?

SPEAKER_03

I have no idea, Cullen. Yeah, I've never even considered that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so you studied that at college and university or unique.

SPEAKER_03

No, I just did um did I did a B Tech, so I didn't do A levels, I just did a B Tech. Um, went to college and then the old question job or uni. Yeah. Right, and then you look at the job descriptions and it's all oh yes, we would like three years experience and also if you could have a degree as well. Well, you can't get both, can you? Um so which one is it gonna be? And I just gambled on the the experience, which I did through an apprenticeship. Nice. For me, that's been the right choice.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. I I definitely I've got no regrets not going to uni. I was on a gap year, got managed to get good grades, got into better unis than I originally applied to, but I weighed it up. I was like, do I really need a degree? Do I really need to go to university based on what I wanted to do? And then I was like, it definitely was the right choice. I've made I don't think financially I would have been able to survive off pot noodles for about four or five years by the time you do the three years and then the masters as well. So yeah, thankfully, I'm glad I'm glad I listened to myself in um in that respect. So I mean how how did you find like did you enjoy like school and college and stuff where you very much like just wanted to go straight into work? How how was that experience? Because I mean mine was a bit up and down. I know everyone's experience is different.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I mean you look back and now you're now I'm 30, I think. You know, it would be nice to be at school again. Yeah, but then less responsibility. Yeah. And I and you you look back and you think, did I actually enjoy it? Yes and no. It was a it's sort of like because back then, of course, I'm autistic, so you're just less developed. So the way you experience the world as a child is a lot more negative than it is now.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Whereas if I had all the insight that I had now, I'd probably have a much better time.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, I know what you mean. But I mean I mean, fair play, obviously, you know, we won't go into detail, but I appreciate you opening up about it in terms of the autism. I'd say in a good way, it's almost like your superpower, like you know, the fact that you're as as good as you are with your work.

SPEAKER_03

I've turned it into I've turned it into that. That's been that's been a journey in itself, which the raving journey itself has been a huge part of.

SPEAKER_00

In terms of coming out your show more.

SPEAKER_03

Well, out of personal development, yeah, all the raving has probably been more significant than anything else. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I mean to be honest, I'll I've always been fairly confident, but I think when you're in that environment, obviously there is a lot going on between the production, the music, the size of the crowds, the people you're interacting with. So yeah, it is it's definitely one of those exercises that'll uh it's just a constant social exercise, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. If it's not if it's not content, it's someone asking for a photo and being the odd one out and dancing when no one else is. Yeah, yeah. So in terms of electronic music, were you always into it from a child in terms of like your mum and dad, or not really? Was it what what kind of sparked that interest?

SPEAKER_03

Um well as a child I I I didn't actually discover it till quite late. Um I accidentally kind of stumbled across it. I heard other people playing it like in the park where I was like, what's that music? It sounds interesting. But I just didn't know what it was called, so it just went ignored. And it was only when I was I was out in Bristol one night and I just stumbled across this nightclub and I went into it. It was one of those the classic small ones in a bunker sort of thing. And then suddenly you discover this music. You still don't know what it's called, but you you just w I know where to go now.

SPEAKER_00

And then what what what was what was the genre? What was the artist? Can you remember that?

SPEAKER_03

I don't I don't think it was a a night with with a headliner artist at all. It was just one of those one of those um drum and bass or techno or how yeah, one of those like resident nights, and it was it was mainly just house. Yeah. But like the more techie house. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like the 3am stuff that keeps people just going.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. No, that's great. Yeah. That's wicked. So from there then did you just delve deeper and deeper in terms of your passion for electronic music and then what what was your what was your first rave experience as well? Well it was it was that one. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, it was that one. Um, and I was really nervous because I didn't know who any of these people were. I've never been before, it was a totally new environment. I I was actually on a night out with other people and I thought this is boring. I'm just gonna leave you guys here. Yeah, it was the classic mainstream, like real mainstream club with with multiplayer characters everywhere. Oh, it was just yeah, it was just no point in even being there. So I left and then and then just found this like more underground club. And I I don't I remember not dancing at all. I was just stood there like a stick at the back. Uh in my head, I was having a great time.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Can you remember the club?

SPEAKER_03

It was uh it was closed now. It's closed now. It wasn't oh it was Timbuktu. Oh okay, in Bristol. Yeah, that's that's closed, yeah. But it it was that one.

SPEAKER_00

Nice. I was in terms of entry to the rave scene, it probably doesn't get much better than Bristol, does it, at the time? I mean, between the co-motions, like there's so much going on.

SPEAKER_03

But you know, I think Bristol and Birmingham, but the wait they were both sort of going off at the same time, weren't they? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So what would that have been about 2015, 2016?

SPEAKER_03

It was it was yeah, it was 20 It was probably the back end of 2014. Yeah. Or the start of it.

SPEAKER_00

Good era to be fair.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Decent.

SPEAKER_03

Um and then I went home and I called my best mate and I said, You've got to come to Bristol with me, can we go to Bristol? Um and it was I went straight away. Let's just go to motion, and then and then I actually went to a different night. It was a it was a run versus ram drum and bass night at at Motion Uh with friction and all that log. Andy C and um I don't know if Andy C was playing that night, but I just I know friction was um but he probably was but yeah again, like I wasn't stood like a stick that night, I was having a great time. But but these were the small events that got it really going.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And I wasn't even sober at that point. The whole sober thing didn't even hadn't started. Um because I remember I made this friend on a night out, um and we would go out and we would just drink beers and but then we realised we came to the conclusion together that these beers were slowing us down.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

We were like, we just can't last till six in the morning. And it's just it's just becoming an annoying.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So we were like, shall we just um have water instead so that we should just keep going? Oh yeah, alright.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So it was both of us together, we would just go and drink water all night. Um should have got sponsored by Avian night whilst you were there, whilst you were doing the server rayman. And it was really me and this guy at the time in 2014. Um, and then it I'd think it just had other things going on, and then I was getting a lot more serious with it. I was like, right, I'm off to London, I'm doing this, I'm going to London. So I would just get on buses to London, and I just got really obsessed with it. And when I get really obsessed with things, I end up doing it on my own because I can't rely on other people. So then Yeah. Um, yeah, and then um and then that's where it all started, and then I hadn't even got the the the uniform yet. That all that all got belted on because I was looking at ways to make it more efficient and optimised and all this stuff, because that's what my brain does. It yeah. I look at things and I go, right, let's make let's make this efficient and optimised.

SPEAKER_00

Brilliant. Would you say things started to really take off the un unintentionally? Was it the Seth Troxler interaction when he did he invite you backstage? Was that the first kind of big kind of social media moment?

SPEAKER_03

Um there was actually a bit in 2015 that that was before that. Okay. I mean Seph Troxler invited me back, which was at that was at um Yusuf's night in Liverpool.

SPEAKER_00

Circus.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah. It was at Circus. Um I think I can't remember what year that was, but that was a that was a little bit later. Um because you've got to remember for Seph Troxler to invite you back, you've kind of already got to be. You can't just be um yeah, that's me bragging there, but um so what was it? Oh, it was in 2015. There was a guy who came up to me, I was in Bristol at Motion, and he goes, Oh, you've been dancing here for ten hours. Um Can I do a documentary on you? It was just this guy, he had nothing to do with the the music industry at all. Yeah. This guy does um does mountain biking and and effectively all the sports that Red Bull do, and he goes around and does that, right? And this guy just goes, I feel like doing something else. Can I do a documentary on you? And I went, all right then. So me and these guys just um did did um this filming, and then we did a little documentary. And I remember I met a guy from Vice at Tobacco Dock in London, and I went, right, when the time's right, I'll email the guy from Vice. And uh they put this documentary together, and it was like, right, what what's the strategy of getting this out then? And I went, I know a guy from Vice. So I emailed him, sent us a clip over, and he went, Yeah, we'll run that.

SPEAKER_00

And then Yeah, but I mean Vice is massive even now, isn't it? Huge, huge platform.

SPEAKER_03

So Vice really was the first kick.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Without Vice, it was Yeah, which but yeah, fair fair play as well for for for saying that, because the amount of people I've met and they're like, oh, it was all me, it was all me. It's like, no, you know, full respect to a platform like that for you know recognising you know your your authenticity and what you're about, and obviously it was a great story um to tell us about. And did you feel like off the back of that? I mean that was fake that Facebook was quite big back then, wasn't it? Yeah, yeah, off the back of Facebook. And I mean Instagram was was a thing, but Facebook still felt very prominent.

SPEAKER_03

I was going round festivals asking people to follow me. I like I was on it. Everyone, I was like, like this page, like this page, like this page. Yeah, but every single like I had asked for, yeah, up until about 3,000 of them, and then it took its own journey after that. So I stopped asking at that point.

SPEAKER_00

Nah, brilliant. Yeah. Yeah, so um so with the relationship with vice, did you stay in touch with them afterwards or was it very much just like?

SPEAKER_03

I think it was a single shot bullet to be honest. Yeah, yeah. You just get those contacts which you only you can only really use once because to use it twice is is abusing it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I mean it was it was a good it was a good single bullet to use, to be fair, clearly. But yeah, so like you say after then then there was the the Seth Croxler interaction, and then did it then just snowball in terms of I I I still remember seeing that video on social media, so I imagine that the dancing was that that got a lot of exposure, and then what did you say then it just snowballed?

SPEAKER_03

Oh the DJ dancing thing, that that was that was that worked great. That did. That that really got things going as well.

SPEAKER_00

Remember the Carl Cox one.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Um it's funny, you know, as soon as one or two DJs w do it, the rest want to do it, and so suddenly they start coming to you, and you don't even have to ask them anymore. It's like, oh yeah, alright. Um let's do it, and that was quite a booster.

SPEAKER_00

Who else was on there other than Seth and Carl? Probably quite a long list to be fair.

SPEAKER_03

It is a long list. I've got a whole playlist on Facebook of all the it's like there's a whole playlist just for the DJ dancing videos.

SPEAKER_00

I'm trying to remember, it was quite a while ago. I do remember, especially the Carl Coxan. I remember seeing that one because everyone was like, Yes, Carl, brilliant. But uh Capriati do one.

SPEAKER_03

Um might have done. Um Martina's Martinez brothers did in Italy. Uh Pampot did it in Spain. Nice.

SPEAKER_00

Um solid list so far, don't even know.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I love Pan Pot. I saw them in uh Sonas in Croatia. They were they were amazing, really good.

SPEAKER_03

WAF did it in in Vietnam. So it was clear you've got it all over the place.

SPEAKER_00

I went to Vietnam for the first time in January. One of my friends uh episode. No, so it does I don't think it's going anymore. One of my friends who I grew up with 15 years ago in Shrewsbury, he's a teacher in uh Ho Chi Minh. So I went to went to there for about a week or so, then went to Moyne up in the coast and then went back to Ho Chi Minh. But yeah, an amazing country, like culturally, really nice. Where was it? Whereabouts was episode? Uh Island Fucock.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, okay. Yeah, so we flew into Ho Chi Minh and then connecting flight to there. And it was a 24-7 festival.

SPEAKER_00

It was it was um Sounds like my kind of festival to be fair.

SPEAKER_03

I I couldn't do it. I I was like, right, I I'm gonna I'm gonna just gonna get up and go when I want to go.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So what I would do is I would go to bed at 10 pm, right? When all of you guys are used to going out, I would go to bed at 10, wake up at 5, go to the festival. Yeah. So I was a 5am go.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and I did the morning. Was it didn't you go for food in some like random market with Seth?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I did. And they all got food poisoning, but I didn't.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, brilliant. Yeah, oh that's classic, brilliant. So, yeah, I mean, so going back then, I mean, we first met at Portal at Rainbow in 2016. It was in the black box. Uh, that would have been like early 2016. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Bigbeth was great then.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. No, and then we did chapter festival together, and obviously that's when as well you introduced me to um Simeon at Printworks for Circa Loca. You invited you invited me there on Sunday. That was quite a fun period. Well, fun and not fun, because it was a constant challenge to see how I could stretch my money as far as possible. So I was constantly trying to hustle, and I was like, you know, full, you know, look like full thanks to you for you know offering to uh take me down because otherwise it's like that's the hardest part is getting your foot in the door and networking with the right people. And I thought, well, I had about 35 quid in my current account, I didn't get paid for a few days. I was like, the opportunity to go to Circoloca at Printworks and network, it's like not going to come around very often. And remember at the end of the night, I remember I didn't really I didn't know because I didn't have any signal how much money I had in my account. I was like, well, I'm either gonna make it on the tube or I'm not. And I think I had about three quid left and managed to make it home back to Birmingham, but yeah, it was uh it was a good time for that.

SPEAKER_03

So do you feel this is was quite a significant moment?

SPEAKER_00

100%, mate. Like that that first encounter that I had through you with with Simeon, obviously through the through the Broadwick guys, and then just get into for that like high-level networking. It was like the way I looked at it is I mean, yeah, it wouldn't have been ideal being stranded when I had work the next day, teaching mortgages in a classroom, but at the same time, it's like, well, I've got nothing to lose. I've only got and I've only got something to gain um from from going to doing it. If you don't take those opportunities, then it makes it harder then to to to climb the ladder. So yeah, that that that memory will stick with me fondly, mate. It was uh it was a good day out for sure.

SPEAKER_03

Well, you know, I I liked helping you out because you helped me out massively with with the writing of the content.

SPEAKER_00

I still can't remember how the writing came about when I know I was doing my own kind of personal um I don't know, like blogs about artists. I'm your blogs were great. Yeah, they were.

SPEAKER_03

They did go on a fair bit though, they were so readable though, like it just flowed and it was easy to read. And I was reading my stuff, I was going, this this is just boring. I don't know why anyone's gonna read this, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Apart from the fact that Bradley wrote it, which you know, and then it was quite it was a good challenge trying to put myself in your shoes and make it seem like it was coming from your point of view.

SPEAKER_03

Well that's why I wrote the skeleton and then that you Yeah, yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_00

I mean you you did write a lot of the foundations anyway, and then I just kind of expanded on it. But yeah, I still remember that when I had like busy with work and then doing the music stuff, I remember like taking my MacBook to work and I'd be on lunch, and obviously everyone would be having a break and it'd be like you come into the pub, I'd be like, Nah, I've got a I've got uh I've got a blog to write for for Brad. But for me, that's when I look back and I'm like, those are it's not even a sacrifice because I enjoy doing it, but I'm like, if you really want to make it and you're really serious about making music your career, you have you have to do it. Like I'd do it late at night. I'd you know, I was still doing a nine to five at the time, and yeah, I think just for for anyone listening, this isn't me. Like I it sounds like I'm blowing my own trumpet, but it's like you do have to go to those lengths if you are serious.

SPEAKER_03

I'm also blowing your trumpet, mate.

SPEAKER_00

But yeah, it was um it was good times. So yeah, so during that period then, when you know, in terms of the relationships you developed with I know like Pioneer were hitting you up, and you know, you were flying around the world, like when when did that really start to take off?

SPEAKER_03

Was it like event by event or um there were there were certain key moments that led to it because um one thing you've probably noticed is as you go on there are key moments and then suddenly different people start actually taking you seriously in a different in a different light. Um so in 2017 I had the viral video with Nab Bible the security guards. Yeah. So that really got the fame going. That that actually got it serious. Um and then toward no, that was in 2016. That was in 2016, and then in 2017 um the BBC got in touch and they did the BBC three documentary, which that catapulted it. And then suddenly that's when the flights started the following year, in tw at the end of 2017, uh into 2018, I can remember New Year's 2017. Uh it I was in four countries in four days.

SPEAKER_00

Is that when you went to Berlin?

SPEAKER_03

I was in Berlin with I remember I was backstage with Adam Baer and I said I'll see you tomorrow in this other country.

SPEAKER_00

Where where did you go after that then?

SPEAKER_03

What was I can't remember. I just remember being height in I was height in Oh, that was it. I was at Awakenings in Amsterdam on the 30th. Gashouder. At Gashouder, yeah. And I said to Adam, I said, I'll see you tomorrow at height in in Germany. Brilliant. So, you know, we we both go our separate ways because he's obviously gonna have more luxurious travel than me. Should have taken you on his private jet. I never got the invite.

SPEAKER_00

Adam, if you're listening, which you might be, should have taken Brad on your private jet, mate.

SPEAKER_03

I actually met the guy uh at in Amsterdam who actually um manages all the private jets. Oh and I spoke I was asking him all about it, it's a fascinating story. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But the logistics behind that is really interesting. There's a guy who used to work for NGEs that they'd like Jamie Jones, Patrick Toppin, obviously, in terms of the logistics, but but how intense their touring is, and you're trying to do the private jets and then the commercial flights, it is very interesting what goes on behind the scenes to be fair.

SPEAKER_03

I remember when I was at I was at Height, I was I was backstage, when when's when's this DJ come in? They were like, look, look, their plane's driving right now. And I went, alright.

SPEAKER_00

Brilliant. Yeah, it was great. Yeah, classic.

SPEAKER_03

So, so yeah, you did Gas Ouder, Height, and then what would you remember the others or um then I was um yeah, Gas Ouder on the 30th. Uh Germany on the 31st, and then I was back in London on the 1st, the New Year's Day Tobacco Docks. Taco Docks. I always did that. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And I that was an amazing venue, wasn't it? Tobacco Docks.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah, there was something else, but I just can't remember what it was. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I think you took me to Tobacco Docks when it was junction two launch. Oh yeah. Yeah, I think yeah, that that was good. Yeah, I really I really enjoyed tobacco docks. Oh, I love junction two under the motorway. Yeah, I never went under the motorway, but that tobacco docks experience, I'd love for that venue to come back, but I think it's I think it's gone now, isn't it? Sadly. Yeah, it's its purpose has been fulfilled. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. So then from then on, it you know, obviously I suppose it kept going on like week in, week out. Um obviously you've already mentioned, you know, in terms of like Lad Bible, BBC three, visor, what were some of the other like big key moments after that?

SPEAKER_03

Um so um IMS IBFA, that was 2018. That was that was after the BBC three, so I think Ben Turner and Pete Tong won that together. Yeah. And um they invited me for the for a keynote interview. Um I didn't actually know how serious that was because at the time I'm just riding the wave of adrenaline and dopamine. Um but you know, the room was packed out, and you've got some quite major players in the in the music industry.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, there are some big players that I imagine.

SPEAKER_03

And you think about how much of people's time you're getting in that moment. It's quite significant. Um and um yeah, that that I didn't think how much I was networking at the time.

SPEAKER_00

And um Probably a good way to think though, mate, rather than I I'm I suppose I'm looking at it from a different lens, like I'm going in purposely to to build relationships and yours. Like, well I've I've been invited, I'm done an interview, and then you're like, oh actually I'm speaking to this person and that person without intentionally going out of your way to speak to them.

SPEAKER_03

So Yeah, and then um and then you just build these relationships and then more opportunities come your way. Suddenly you get invited to Vietnam and you get flown over there. Um and it was brilliant. 2018 was the was was the year when it was fully like pumping. You you're on flights every month. You were I was still go coming to Digbeth, going to London, going to Bristol in between. Um, but that was the year that you felt like you're a jet-setting celebrity raber. Um and then and then in 2019 was the finale. It was it was all that was when it was all coming downhill, and it wasn't just the final event. There was there was other things like oh I did a TV advert once, and um I just remember being told how to dance on set, and it was all a bit like yeah, you know, it's like I was like, the big corpse have got involved, like yeah, it's true, it it does take the side, it does take the soul out of it 100%.

SPEAKER_00

It's like when you're being instructed in a basic like orchestrated what to do, it's like it's not.

SPEAKER_03

I said, I said hold on, I said hold on, you wanted me here. So surely you should let me dance how I want. Oh yeah. So there you go, there.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's true, no, it's very true. See, I mean I remember when we went to cocoon in the parking, it was mad. I mean, obviously, I'd seen Sven Vath in Rainbow and obviously, you know, the godfather, well, one of the godfathers of techno, an absolute legend, and then you just thought, yeah, this is Sven. I was like, Oh my god, it's nice to meet you, Sven. And that was 2018 or 2017, I can't really remember, it's a bit of a blur, but yeah, that was a that was a good day. And I do recall obviously we spent some time together, and it was like even when you were going, you know, from backstage into into the rave, and it was like, Can I have a photo? Can I have a photo? Can I have a photo? And you know, it is the double-edged sword, isn't it? Where you know you want to be there to enjoy the music, but because you became so famous, it's like you just had so much attention all of the time. It probably does get quite a lot.

SPEAKER_03

I think there's two things with that though, because with the attention, what we've got to remember every time someone's asking you for a photo, it's probably their first time they're getting it. And when people are talking to you, it's probably the first conversation they've had with you. It might be your 500th conversation that is gonna go the same way because you knew exactly what they were gonna say and you knew exactly how the conversation was gonna go, but it's the first time they're having it. Yeah. So if you come across annoyed, if you come across like that, what does that say? And actually, it does have backlashes. Yeah, yeah. And I have and I did have some feedback along the way, like, oh Brad was a bit annoyed. And I went, Oh, that's a really bad experience for their first time. They're probably never gonna want to have a photo ever again. Yeah. And you sort of have to take that into consideration as well.

SPEAKER_00

It's it's a tough one because obviously it it is nice people recognising you, but I also think, and and I've probably been guilty of as well. I'm not gonna take the moral high ground, is you have a photo of someone because, especially in the era of social media, they can then post it on their social media and be like, oh, I met Bradley Grumra. It's like then it's like on their part, how authentic is it to be?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, well, I I was fully aware that you know the only reason they were doing it was because my fame was high at the time. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Which I suppose it it's it's a good mindset to have because you recognise it for what it is rather than being like, oh, you know, that they're they're barring down to me. It's like, no, it's it is it effect it is effectively transactional, yeah. Um in terms of why they want the photo and probably probably is the best way of looking at it to be honest.

SPEAKER_03

One thing I'm really I think I've I've mentioned all these key moments, but actually MixMeg were very involved quite a lot with me. Um same with Ministry of Sound, um, because we did the reviews, but but you know, MixMeg were actually I I was quite close with them. Um they flew me to New York. They did I think we've done like two or three five-minute videos together. Um and they were actually they really helped with the networking. Yeah. Um and I felt they were like really part of the journey, they were quite invested in it. Um so I think you know, MixMeg and Ministry of Sound, they they have quite a lot to thank. Yeah. Seeming like you know, they are effectively the media of the music industry. They're in they're really in control of how people perceive you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And that's something I was always massively grateful for because obviously when when we were doing the monthly rave reviews together, initially it was on your own like landing page slash website, and then when it came to that, they wanted to publish the rave reviews. I mean, for me, I mean I grew up on Ministry of Sound CDs, like that was my entry into electronic dance music for us, especially my mum. And then you know, you go from living in a council house in Shrewsby listening to CDs on a broken old CD player, and then all of a sudden, fast forward, like fifty about 15 years, stuff that you're writing is being published in Ministry of Sound. I was like, yeah, it kind of did say it took me back a bit because I was just like, you know, quite quite overwhelmed and uh you know very grateful for for that. But I think it just goes to show as well, you know, you you do things organically and and for the right reasons, and you never know what doors.

SPEAKER_03

I I your work was definitely recognised, Killam, because I think Ministry of Sound were very happy that you were involved because my content was was was terrible.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's it's weird because obviously they've done that amazing um restructure now, haven't they, with the new production layout in there? The production they've got in there now.

SPEAKER_03

I haven't been in there.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I suppose I haven't been, but James, who I work with, he's playing there with Sam Divine in May, and they've got this new production installation. And to be fair, it looks incredible. Which, as we know, with London, there's so much competition. I think they probably thought, yeah, how can we cut through the noise here?

SPEAKER_03

All these memories coming flooding back. When you mention these names, when you just said Sam Devine, now I'm thinking about all the work we've done with EE Festival and we did all the content there.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's working. Yeah, it's a yeah, it's it's it's crazy because it means like you were saying before, you've spent more time effectively retired from being Bradley Gun Raver than you did the whole Bradley Gun Raver.

SPEAKER_03

It's been longer since it's ended, since the whole duration of the whole thing. Yeah. How many years was it in total? Um, well, Bradley Gun Ravers started in 2015. About four years. It ended in 2019. Yeah. I technically was raving about a year before that. Yeah, yeah. But even with that, that's a total of five. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, to be fair, mate, you got some you've got some interesting stories to tell the grandkids.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, technically we're coming up to seven years.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Mad, yeah, time does fly, mate, for sure. It really does. So obviously you mentioned some of the key moments. What what were some of your like personal favourites in terms of you know, like some of the relationships that that you built and things that you I suppose things that you look back on fondly, even though you have parted ones?

SPEAKER_03

I think my relationship with Seph Troxter was was quite special. Um because with with the relationships you build, it a lot of them felt very business-y. It was it was we're gonna be friends because we're both famous. And yeah, you know, and we're we're not really gonna talk to each other outside of this, and and that's what it felt like. But actually, Seth actually reached out to me a number of times. I remember when I broke my collarbone, he he'd messaged, so how how's your arm?

SPEAKER_00

Oh yes, that's nice. It's that that personal message, it's something that you kind of realize in music if you're having a hard time, you realise who your actual friends are when people reach out when it's not, oh do you mind coming to this event?

SPEAKER_03

Because I can probably get a piece of content with you and Yeah, and I felt that was quite a special relationship. Um there were also other special relationships which weren't so famous, which were really supportive. Um there's this guy called Terry who who lives south of Bristol, and um he was very supportive in setting events up for me. Like I remember if I did Monday evening rave sessions, which was uh the live stream on Mondays, um he helped orchestrate some of that and he took a lot of time out to organise that. Um I had good friends in Bristol who helped me out a lot. We did a 24-hour charity event together.

SPEAKER_00

Of course, yeah. Yeah, they were coming flooding back for me, mate, as well.

SPEAKER_03

There was there was a there was a lot of people who you know, you f when you think about how much time people put into things and they didn't have to do any of that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. That's nice, mate. I I do remember, like I said earlier on, about you having food with Seth away from the festival in Vietnam and then I recall didn't you have food food in the hotel together as well? You're just like ch chilling in the room and just yeah, it's nice.

SPEAKER_03

And my and my best friend out of all of it at the time was Zoe, who who worked for LWE.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, Zoe, she she's lovely. I remember uh through uh when you took me to print works and like we were saying earlier on, it's great to see her still doing well now with her with her marketing bits, very, very clever lady, yeah, for sure. But yeah, like you say, just a genuinely nice person.

SPEAKER_03

She she used to give me advice. She she was like, Braddy, you need to post at two minutes past the hour. She has access to all my insights.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, she yes.

SPEAKER_03

She was the only other person who had access to my insights, no one else could see it. Yeah, people are like, oh yeah, you need to change this, change that.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, it's definitely the right person to uh to have access for sure. So, yeah, I mean, going on from there then, um, you know, dur during COVID, I know you said you had, you know, a bit of a roller coaster, you know, mentally, which I suppose I think we all kind of did in in our own ways, especially with uh the isolation, supposed to be.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I think you think that's not unique of me, but what what I was saying, that I think the unique part was the leaving the music industry and having that, and then that obviously got tied in with lockdown, which everyone experienced their own journey there.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Yeah, so how I mean how how was that period then as a whole? Were you living alone at the time? Yeah, I think I think I do remember you living alone at the time, which yeah, I mean, I I went back home at first, but to be honest, I got fed up with my family, so I moved back to some stuff.

SPEAKER_03

So be honest, it was for me personally, it was no bad thing living alone. I I'm quite used to it. I've always lived alone.

SPEAKER_00

I I love living alone now, I can't lie. For me to give up my personal space now, my privacy and my tranquility, my peace and quiet, which I know I feel sorry for Luke, the media guy, he's got a little one on the way in September. That's about to we're we're just gonna uh bask in that mate. That's that's about to go for you, brother. But um yeah, I yeah, I can imagine it was an interesting period. I mean it was supposed interesting for all of us, wasn't it? In in our own way. So you your um software engineer work, you were doing that all remotely from home during COVID yeah. So it was weird here, wasn't it? Because one minute we were in lockdown, then certain areas weren't locked down. Then so how how was your personal experience during that time, like as things started to reopen?

SPEAKER_03

To be honest, I was I was living in the southwest, which isn't the worst place to be in lockdown. Um you got a lot of nature and green space? You know, it's the posh part of the country, so like it's not you're not in a bad place. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um yeah, so did you go to any events when everything opened back up or you just like no, I'm done with that completely?

SPEAKER_03

Um sort of went to one or I've been to a few, but not I remember I went to I went to drum code festival in in um Amsterdam. Yeah. I don't know if that was after no, that was definitely before not now. But I've been to one or two, but never in the same way.

SPEAKER_00

So did you just go there then dress like this, normal, in the crowd?

SPEAKER_03

Oh I'd just be like in shorts and and a t-shirt and Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Were you still getting recognised at the time or not? Because obviously before you very much had your own outfit, you had your own personal brand.

SPEAKER_03

Sort of kind of, you know, it was it was still active back then, but not really, and it was dying off. Yeah. Um whereas now I think if I turned up to an event, nobody would even clock that you're there.

SPEAKER_00

You'd probably enjoy it a lot more then, wouldn't you, to be fair? Yeah, mate, you'll have to you'll have to come to lab 11 soon. We've got some good events coming up.

SPEAKER_03

No, I'd love to, yeah. I'd I I do I do miss coming to Digba if it was it's quite a night out here.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's wicked, mate. So we could what what would you say when when you reflect and look back? I know we have touched on some points, what would you say have been like the main lessons that you've learned, as well as about the music industry and about yourself as as well?

SPEAKER_03

Um so it's the the social media side was the biggest one. So I'm a lot I'm a lot less active on social media now. Um I mean I have a private Instagram I've got the close friends on that, which I post to quite a bit on my stories, but no way near that level because I think that I just lacked so much meaningful human connection at the time. Um and it was only through lockdown you actually realised what was missing. Um so yeah, the lesson was um you know really maintaining and building those relationships. That was the main one.

SPEAKER_00

Um I suppose lockdown made us all slow down and actually realise you're living life at a million miles an hour between your work and then travelling, like you were effectively, even though it wasn't a career, you were living basically two lives within within one, within the career. Yeah, it was it was very fast-paced. Yeah, and like you said, when you're stuck in that echo chamber and you just like got your blinkers on, you're not looking left, you're not looking right. It's only then when you're forced to slow down and you think, Christ, that was uh pretty intense to say the least.

SPEAKER_03

Because I was always travelling, I was always travelling. I wasn't ever like I wasn't I couldn't sit still. I couldn't be at home and sit still. It actually took quite a long time to get there. I bet you must have had a six pack at the time, the amount of calories you must have been burning. No, it was all it not a six pack, I didn't do gym or anything, I just looked like a prawn, I think.

SPEAKER_00

Brilliant, yeah, classic, but yeah, no, some some interesting points there. And then uh yeah, like you say, in terms of the social media side and the human connections, would you would you say that that is the main point we said there's anything else you kind of look back on and think?

SPEAKER_03

Um the other thing I do I do genuinely miss it. Um like you know, I used to spend eight eight hours a night dancing to music, which I don't really do now.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. How do you how do you spend your spare time now? Obviously, I know you you know you you're doing really well with work, and you said you're not doing the sailing as much as you tend, like you say, in terms of those meaningful. A lot of it is socialising, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Um at the local pub and just chatting to people. There's a lot of chatting.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. What's your local?

SPEAKER_03

Uh it's called the Digby Tap in Cherboard.

SPEAKER_00

Nice. Yes, very much a community pub, everyone knows each other.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, you go you go everyone knows each other. That's that's they're the best pubs though, aren't they? To be fair, but you've got that familiarity.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's nice. That when when when we were talking about Carl Cox earlier on and the motorsport team that he's got and being in the island man, when I go to see family, it's it's one of those, it's a bit like a Marty Bouche episode because it's on an island and you go in the pub and like the bell rings and everyone likes like the clock stops, the music stops, and it's like, who's this guy from the mainland coming in?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, it's it's quite funny at times when you go to pubs where you're not from the area and then you walk in, it's uh yeah, and then just also just getting involved in activities that other people do and just enjoying their company. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um I can imagine. I I know you miss certain aspects of of of the mu of music, but yeah, like the way you're living your life, no, like you say, you're happy. That's that's that's the most important thing.

SPEAKER_03

But you know, the the whole the whole rave journey itself has led up to this. I think without that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, well, yeah, to be honest, what you were saying earlier on, that is the great point to take away is those social interactions you had from the music have probably positively made you who you are today and grown your confidence and and also a lot of the feedback I get from people is you just seem older mentally.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Like you seem a lot more put together. And they're like, How are you so mentally stable? I was like, well, because I just went through those years of you know, going through the music industry, you're always self-assessing your mental health, and then sort of purposely going through these different journeys, and then and it just helps you become a better person, I think. Yeah, that's wicked matter.

SPEAKER_00

I feel like I've learned a lot from uh listening to you today, mate. There's there's a lot for me to take away as well. But I think we'll we'll leave it at that, mate. I think we've and unless there's anything else you'd like to share.

SPEAKER_03

Uh no, I'm happy to.

SPEAKER_00

Put you on the spot there today. But yeah, I just know I just wanted to say, mate, honestly, thank thank you very much for your time. So I know it's not something you um you typically do.

SPEAKER_03

But uh well, I was very excited to be here because of uh our work together.

SPEAKER_00

So yeah, no, like likewise. And that that's the thing for me, when I look at my own personal journey, I'm glad that I've done the things away from obviously, you know, I do I do the bookings and the marketing and the artist management, but I'm glad on my own personal journey that I've worked with people like yourself, and there's been that real authenticity, there's been those organic relationships, and it yeah, it just made it just makes me feel a lot happier about the journey that I've I've been on, yeah. So yeah, thank you. But uh I suppose, yeah, that people, if they want to find you, it's Bradley Gun Sailor, now not Bradley the Gunligan Raver.

SPEAKER_03

I'd rather people just call me Bradley Gunn for no. Yeah, yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_00

No, it makes a lot more sense. Just want to be me, so but yeah, no, thank you very much, Brad. Thank you, Cannon. Thank you, sir. Thank you, so yeah. Any likes and subscribes to the YouTube channel, of course, Creative Minds across TikTok, Instagram, um, all social media platforms. Obviously, we'll be putting out some great short form content from back in the day. So yeah, thank you very much. Take care.