TFS WealthCast

From 1 - 20+ Our Property Playbook: How We Really Built It | Part 2 (Pramu Rodrigo)

• Tomorrow Financial Solutions • Season 2 • Episode 12

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In this special two-part series of TFS WealthCast, we unpack the real journey behind building a 20+ property portfolio - starting from zero.

In this episode, Pramu Rodrigo breaks down exactly how he and Sonali transitioned from their first home purchase into a scalable property investment strategy - leveraging equity, identifying undervalued opportunities, and making calculated decisions during uncertain market conditions like COVID.

This is not theory. This is execution.

You’ll learn:

  •  How their first deal generated ~$165K in 18 months
  •  Why “imperfect assets” (like odd-shaped blocks) can outperform 
  •  How to use equity strategically instead of saving deposits repeatedly 
  •  The truth about apartments - and when they do build wealth 
  •  How they scaled rapidly during COVID while others paused 
  •  The concept of the “poor man’s mindset” - and why it stops investors 
  •  The role of strategy, risk management, and partnership alignment in scaling 

This episode also dives into:

  •  SMSF strategies and commercial property positioning 
  •  Tax efficiency through depreciation and structure 
  •  Why most investors get stuck at 1–2 properties 
  •  The importance of decision-making frameworks vs emotional investing 

Key takeaway:
Wealth creation is not about chasing property - it’s about building a system that compounds.

If you’re serious about building a portfolio - or scaling beyond your current position - this episode is essential listening.

Any information discussed or provided in this podcast is general advice and has been provided without taking account of your objectives, financial situation or needs, you should consider the appropriateness of this advice before acting on it. If this general advice relates to acquiring a financial product, you should obtain a Product Disclosure Statement before deciding to acquire the product.

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SPEAKER_00

Dream big. Plan smart. Build well. This is the TFS Podcast, where money talk gets real and financial freedom is more than just goal. Without further ado, let's dive in. Hi guys, and welcome to this special two-part series of the TFS Wealthcast podcast. Last week you heard Sunali, and this week you're about to hear Pramu's perspective of how Pramu and Sunali built their property portfolio in Australia after moving here, starting from nothing from the ground up, from their first property to their second property to the third, and so on, to now having a property portfolio of 20 plus properties. And without any further ado, I'd like to welcome uh founder and CEO, Mr. Pramu Rodrigo. Thank you, Vishy. Thank you for having me over and over again. No more. Thank you for always, you know, wanting to do these podcasts with us. Yeah, it's because you know there's a there's a wealth of uh knowledge that you and Sonali share in these podcasts, and uh and it's all from experience, it's not just from books you read or podcasts you've heard, right? So, with that being said, I'd like to dive straight into it because Sonali touched a lot on uh how you guys moved here and whatnot, and we've and we've touched on your past a bit on other podcasts, yeah. Uh so I guess it's fair to say that we can jump straight into your property journey in Australia. Awesome. So, Pramu, I'm gonna be straight. When did property become real for you? Not just an idea. Take us back to that first property. What got you into that property? That first property.

SPEAKER_01

See the the the property where I learned about property, we see when when I started uh the business in property business, that's the first one I started. So that's where I I actually got to know quite a lot about property. Right. I knew so you got into real estate. I got into real estate. That was my first business. Okay. Right? Um, so when I was doing that business, that's where I learned about property, the the land acquisitions, land developments, property development, first home buyers, investors. So I was I was fortunate enough enough to work with quite a number of customers like that. Thanks to uh thanks to uh uh uh the referral partner that I had back in the day. Um uh you know, financial freedom. Uh was the was the was the company. Uh Mrs. We know Ela Singh to this date, uh dear friend of mine. Um she sent us a lot of or sent me a lot of customers to to work. I was only working for her, looking for opportunities for her investors. So that's where I I learned about property. Uh uh, you know, the developers and builders who I worked with, marketing agencies I worked with, real estate agents who I worked with, they they taught me quite a lot, right? Um, so it was that that is the time I sort of also thought, you know, we should buy property too. Okay. I never knew it's going to be the first home and then go, but you know, it was there. Okay.

SPEAKER_00

So so so take us to the first property, you know?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So first home. Um I can't remember exactly the time. I think it was 2012. Yeah, 2012. Uh Sonali wanted to buy, Sonali was like they're step, they're set, saying, okay, we gotta buy the first home. Because back in the day we had first home owners grant. If you buy a land and build a house, we had a first home owner's grant. When we started looking, it was $40,000. That's a lot of money. And then it became $30,000, then all of a sudden it became $20,000 while we were looking at opportunities and while we were looking at options. So we were looking in in Southeast. Um, we were going down the path uh of Berrick, Cramber North. Cranberry North is like brand new back in 2012. Yeah, just pad literally paddy fields then. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Now the new developers now look at Cranbert North.

SPEAKER_01

Right? Right. So we we actually went there and had a look. Um, we went to Dandinong South, had a look at some options there. So none of those options didn't work out for us because Sonali was working in the city, I was working in the city. We weren't we didn't know how to travel that long because we were not used to that. We were used to travel from when we started in Australia from Foot Square to the city, that was like two or three uh uh train stops for me. Right, and same thing for Sonali. Then we moved to Burwood East, beautiful area to live again. Very, very quick travel time. We drive to the Burrwood station, park the car there, take the train, go to work.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so so the location was uh one of the major uh deciding factors in where you guys purchased your first home.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, naturally, yeah, which is so so so so for Sonali very specifically said to me, okay, let's go and have a look at the option. We're gonna see some of these playhouses, crazy, beautiful. Okay, I want that. Then I get, you know, I get really excited. Oh what if I can have a pool? Uh so all these dreams started coming in, and um then we realized it no, it's not about the bigger house we want, it's about the location and and how easy we can commute to our uh place of work, yeah, our lifestyle, our friends were living in in the areas as well. It's just an easy commute. Yeah, and we we loved the Bearwood East Vibe as well, so we want to be closer to that. So, where do you guys finally end up buying the house? So we bought it in one turn, okay. So there's a bit of a story. We went to a place in Fern Tree Gully, we loved it, amazing land, overlooking the views of Dandinong Ranges, and I thought, okay, build a nice balcony, happy days. Just just about me getting into just about, I think probably about a few seconds, me closing the door. I heard a screaming noise from the neighbors. Just before you got into the car, just before, right? Yeah, screaming noise from the neighbors, uh plot. And that put you off. That put me off straight away. Uh, but then I wanted to ask an Ali because she liked she loved the land and uh she was already planning on what what we're going to build. So I asked her, Do you really want to buy it now? And she looked at me and said, uh, no. Done. No worries. Call the agents. Nah, that's not for us. And and this agent said to me, There is a land in Montana, why don't you go and have a look? I said, Look, that is going to be over our budget. We don't want to go beyond this. We won't we want to stick with our budget. I said, no, it's okay. Just go and have a look. Right, no worries. We went there. Moment I turn left to this court called Hivid Court. As soon as I turn my car, Sonali goes, This is it. This is where I want to stay. That's what she's doing. I haven't seen the land. Parked the car, got down. I had a look at it. It was an odd-shaped block. Looks like a, you know, when you see single is we can say the kiribat. Like uh like two triangles put together. Yeah, exactly. It was so weird. Um so I surprised obviously over the budget. I said, I can't afford it. Would you take uh $300,000 back in the day? I was a lot of money back in the day buying a land when all my friends, all the people that I was looking at, and the land that we were looking at, they were 230 and 200,000. That was the price point. 250 was a premium price back then for a first home buyer. Now I had to give an offer at 300,000. I think they were asking about 330,000. They had an offer as well of 330, somehow the other offer didn't go through. Called up pretty much next day, said to me, You need to come to the office before six o'clock. You need to sign the contract, we will accept 300,000. So I said, Alright, that's a bit weird. Let's go for it. Done. Well, by 6.15, we signed the contracts, paid the deposit, came home. Then we decided, okay, now what we can build. We go to a few builders. Every builder is saying, Oh, it's a what's a block, we can't build too much on it. So you can have a very small house, single story or double story. Something about that land I always knew. Yeah. Um, now I'm not gonna go to these major builders. None of these guys can't build. So then I made a few calls to uh a few.

SPEAKER_00

Some of the builders you had befriended from your real estate. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I actually called a couple of other builders and I said, Mike, I got this land, it's a bit weird.

SPEAKER_00

Uh that's the beauty, because it was an odd-shaped block. A lot of builders don't build on those. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So frontage was six meters, and everybody's like, Why did you buy it? But how big was the land? It was 525 or some something around that. Then they were like, Why did you buy it? Are you crazy? Six meter frontage, you can't build anything, Mike. I said, Okay, I I understand. Can you get me a custom builder, please? Then a few names came, and then one builder I uh uh found. I went and had a look, uh, had a chat. We had a look at one of the properties. Me and Sonali went down to, I think somewhere down in uh who's the builder you guys use?

SPEAKER_00

Um I don't know.

SPEAKER_01

I can I can remember Alpha Alpha Building Alpha Building Group. Okay. Uh in fact, I built two houses with them. So first home, they said, Look, this is the land. I said, Yep, no worries, Coop. We understand. There you go, the draft, drafty person we use. You should go and meet the fellow. That doesn't happen back in the day like that. Yeah. So I was excited about it. It's like having an architect. Drafty is a brilliant guy. He comes to the land, parked the car, put his, he got his ladder, put the triangle ladder.

SPEAKER_00

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

And all of a sudden, I'm sitting, I'm I'm I'm on the land, I'm looking at what are you doing? Climbed up to the ladder and looked at it, yeah. I can build something really cool.

SPEAKER_00

All right, so just like that in his head, he's already So I I don't think there were no drones back in the day.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, exactly. So it was more map out. I think he was mapping it out. So he my second land, when we when we bought it, he did the same thing by the way. Yeah. So first did that. We built a 30, we we actually ended up building a 30-odd square single-story house. So we ended up building a bigger house. A massive single story house. A massive single-story house. Had a theater room, four bedrooms, you got everything. Yeah. Right. And some some um uh lovely features on you know kitchen splash back with a bit different. Yeah. So house was good. My total cost, as far as I can remember, back in the day, it was would have it was it was five hundred and fifty, no, five hundred and sixty thousand dollars. In total. Uh in total with the land. With the land and the bill cost. So the bill cost bill cost was two hundred and sixty thousand dollars to me for me to build a 30 squares house. No, no, it wasn't key. It wasn't a full-turnkey, right? It wasn't, but the driveway I ended up doing separately. Um landscape, I did it by myself. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Back when you had more free time to use the case. I had I had time, I had time.

SPEAKER_01

So I I enjoyed doing landscaping by the way. So that was the first home. You know, you put all the other costs, you put 580. If you really wanted, yeah. But it didn't cost it didn't cost me 20,000 to do the rest of it. Probably I'll I'll probably put another 10k, that's it. So 570. Yeah. So that was the first home, right? By the way, I got the 20,000 grant as well. Oh, you got the first home owners as well.

SPEAKER_00

So so beauty number one. Now the beauty of this property, yeah, it's the equity you built on this. Talk us through that because you built it quite fast.

SPEAKER_01

We built it very fast. We moved in. First child comes as well. Yeah. Um we ended up selling it in about one and a half years, and I was amazing to see the amount of money we got out of it in a one and a half years time. Yeah. But I think what sparked in the previous episodes what Insanali is talking about, it sparked the the neighbors who also sold it for a good price.

SPEAKER_00

So, what are the factors that enabled you guys to sell this house at such a uh at such a good value? I mean, what helped you gain so much out of this property? So I I I think the fact that you bought the land cheaper. Because it was an odd-shaped block.

SPEAKER_01

Because an odd-shaped block, not a lot of people are buying. And why don't a lot of people like these odd-shaped blocks? It's it's it's a problematic. You can't go to a main builder or major builder and pick a flow plan that you like and go and you can't do that. You gotta you gotta create, you gotta have a uh vision. Yeah, yeah. Right? Not not all people want to go through that process because everything is easy. Go there, pick the plan. Oh, yep, that towel, that flow, you know, overflow boards, bench tops. You know, at least we had to do that by the way, in my first home. It's about four hours and all it took to pick the colors. Like from that point on, I never did the colors. It's a good thing you're you're a really patient guy. Uh you can't call that because after that point, I have never gone to a color selection. I mean, not like you got to do what you wanted to do anyway, right? So um, yeah, so we went and had a chat to an agent, and agent said, Yeah, I can achieve the same agent who sold the previous uh previous house of the next door. Uh, we achieved seven seven thirty-five as a sale price. So our total cost was land and bill cost was five, you know, put it five seventy, right? So we made what hundred and uh hundred and sixty-five thousand dollars in in just over a year. One and a half years, one and a half years, right? You know, remember you you there's a twenty thousand from the government too. Yeah, so my return on investment, I looked at it from that perspective. What I actually spent from my pocket was nothing for me to earn $135,000. Yeah, so $165,000, right? That was a massive return on investment. So I asked Sunali, financial plan, why do we need to work so hard? I asked this from her and she was like, why you do this five times 115 to five times, right? Yeah, aren't you happy? One kid just under 30, 29, right? By 35, you you got quite a lot of uh funds in your account. Yeah, you you are in a very good place. So she said, you can definitely do it, let's strategize. So that's that's where it became real for you. The that's when we started looking into this in a real investor perspective, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Not wasting hours on color selections. So this is so you would say this first property is what convinced you that buying properties was the vehicle.

SPEAKER_01

You should hear the second property story.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, let's let's dive straight into that then, right?

SPEAKER_01

You I sell it, yeah, I walk down, yeah, take my tour for a walk. There's a land which I always wanted to buy, which wasn't available because if someone has already bought it, sales sign going on on the land. This I sold it day before, my house, taking a walk. Sales sign, how much I don't know. So I called the agent, how much do you want? Uh anything south of 350. I said, okay, dude, come on. Watch the price. Give 400, it's yours. I said, okay, done. Anything south of 350. Yeah. Right? I said, okay, 400,000, done. Give me the section 32. Let me get back to you. I'll pay 400,000. So I'm only doing my numbers, okay. That's fine.

unknown

Right?

SPEAKER_01

400,000, spend another whatever, man. I'm still making money. I'm not gonna lose money here. But this this land is much better. There's a view.

SPEAKER_00

Again, odd shape block of land? Odd shape block.

SPEAKER_01

Odd shape block, six meter frontage again.

SPEAKER_00

You love your odd shapes, huh?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, loved it. It's brilliant. He's just giving me money for nothing. Yeah, right. I'm looking for odd shapes. Moment I see a rectangle block, I say, stuff that, not that, not for me.

SPEAKER_00

So that doesn't trigger your OCD, the fact that the land is an odd shape block. No, because it's making me money. Oh, okay. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So OCD into numbers. Right? So I see the numbers. Okay, I buy this believe that cost holding, cost selling.

SPEAKER_00

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

Who cares about the ship?

SPEAKER_00

Done. We found the second land and then this onto the second property. And I'm still living in that house, by the way. The one you sold. Second property. Second. Second land. Apparently living in the second house.

SPEAKER_01

So I built a house. So this is a funny story. So I'm willing to pay 400,000. And then he called me, he sent me section 32. He called me the next day and said, hey mate, we can't sell it to you like that. It needs to be an auction. I said, why? It's an auction, but prepared, it'll be over 330. Yeah, no worries. Come to the auction, stay, me and Sonali staying. Nobody's bidding. Um I put my first bid 260. No one's bidding. And I'm looking at Sonali. You serious? We're gonna get this for 260. Yeah. Then the Windows bid comes in 270. Okay. I said, all right, cool. I put uh 274 or 277. No, no, no. You gotta put uh minimum 5,000. I said, all right, 275. Right? Yeah. Then he reduced it to some some person, put it 277. He he took that 2,000. He didn't take my 4,000. Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_00

Clearly, some discrimination going on.

SPEAKER_01

There you go, right? I said, all right, fine enough. That's okay. And I thought, you know what, I'll give you 10k. Because in my head, I can go up to 400,000 here. Now I want this land. I don't care. I don't want it.

SPEAKER_00

Well, we're gambling now, all right?

SPEAKER_01

Right? I don't care. I'm I'm buying this. So now Ali's just there. So I gave 280. That person stopped bidding. I bought the land for 280. And you were willing to pay 400 for this? I was willing to pay 400 for it.

SPEAKER_00

Damn.

SPEAKER_01

If it was a it was a it was apparently a uh uh uh uh uh foreclosure sale. Oh okay. The person who had the land didn't pay the loan, the bank bank only wanted 270. Uh, I think to cover the selling cost and all, they just wanted 280, they were happy to sell it, and hammer goes down. 280, the land is mine. Yeah, you got lucky twice. Right. Another 20,000 from the government. If you really think about it, my previous land four does the first one by 300,000. Then I buy this for uh 280, $20,000 less.

SPEAKER_00

After one and a half years. What was like the what was the market rate?

SPEAKER_01

$200,000.

SPEAKER_00

You are lucky.

SPEAKER_01

That's why I said, okay, pair the market rate. That's okay. Because this time we were not gonna sell it. We so now you said, okay, we let's build, let's stay, but we know this place, let's have a place for us to stay, let's strategize, let's do it in elsewhere. Yeah, so we were willing to do it. So we built the house, that house helped us.

SPEAKER_00

The equity instantity.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it was like house built. I'm moving in, I'm cashing out. Yeah, I'm cashing out. So I'm cashing out to do what? To buy a cask? No, no, buying land, building. We bought uh, I think the third property was uh uh uh uh apartment in in Foot Square. Yeah, brilliant apartment. You still I mean you still have it? I still don't have problems.

SPEAKER_00

I don't like selling properties. Uh speaking of apartments, let's let's talk about that promotion. So why it's interesting that you bought an apartment because a lot of people say apartments don't uh uh I mean a lot of our clients, yeah. They're like, Oh, I don't want apartments, it doesn't build equity. Yeah, what do you have to say about that? It's a it's a it's it you just don't know how to pick the right apartment.

SPEAKER_01

Because your apartment built you equity. Absolutely. And to be fair fair to those people, there's a lot you need to learn when you're buying an apartment, right? So if I to give you very, very simple parameters, what you need to do when you're buying an apartment, you need to look at where it is. What's the body cope? Where are the amenities? Transport. And how close to the city? Because if you're gonna buy an apartment in suburbia, about 20 kilometer radius, forget about it. Buy a townhouse. Yeah.

unknown

Right.

SPEAKER_01

Might as well. Might as well. But it needs to be closer to city. That's where that lifestyle exists. Right? So even after COVID, people buy apartments even to this date. Why? They want to be closer to the city. Their lifestyle is very different. They don't even own a car. Yeah, I mean, if you live in the city, you don't really owning a car is a hassle. Hassle. Because driving up. Yeah, right? But the apartment I bought, two-bedroom, two-batroom, two, uh, one-car garage, yeah, uh, one car space with a storage facility as well. Ticks every single box closer to the Union City. Seven kilometers to the CBD. I think we paid only $450,000 back then.

SPEAKER_00

And would you say it looks like a bachelor pad? Does it have a good view from the balcony? I don't know about that. I have I think I've only been to that property for twice.

SPEAKER_01

You were never a bachelor when you owned an apartment, so you I don't think I ever go on to the balcony. I just go there, open the door, uh, yeah, yeah. That's one thing I always wanted to see because that has a that that apartment had a um still has it obviously the the uh polished concrete ceiling. Right? I've never seen a uh a property like this.

SPEAKER_00

I went to see that because it gives that house vibe that a lot of people like, you know, lovely, lovely.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, exactly. You know, when my son grows one day, who knows? You know, he's a I want to I want to stay near the apartment. There you go. He gets his bachelor pad. That can be a bad if he invites me, you know. I don't think he'll ever invite me.

SPEAKER_00

We're about to get deep. Let's be honest. Who believed in the vision first? You or Sonali, and who had to play catch-up?

SPEAKER_01

Who has to play catch up?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, who had to play catch up?

SPEAKER_01

Uh I don't think we two of us never played catch up.

SPEAKER_00

Alright, but who believed in the vision first in this property investment property job?

SPEAKER_01

Uh I think both we both had the vision, but we had both. Who made it the mission first? We the mission was mine, then you know me, right? I'm like a pit bull when I want something, I'm at it.

SPEAKER_00

And Sonali is the only one who can tame this.

SPEAKER_01

Sonali's like, uh, hang on, calm down a bit, hang on. You can get there, hang on, slow down. What are you doing? Right, okay. Have you done these numbers? Yes. Good boy. Have you look at these things? Yes. Okay, fine. Let me do my thing. So then she does, she refines these things and you know she applies the risk uh in into certain purchases, which is important, by the way. Yeah, right. Uh, you you let me lose, I will buy 10. There could be one property can go wrong. Yeah. Right? I'm paying low averages. So now she doesn't do low averages. Everything she touches, she need it needs to work. It needs to work, otherwise, she won't do it. Right. There are so many arguments at home sometimes for certain properties, which she and I'm saying, no, it works. We we do this, we we we you know, we buy this demolish, build, bank, profit.

SPEAKER_00

So, so, so you're the one with the bigger risk appetite. Oh, yeah. Yeah, you love taking some risk.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00

Living life on the edge.

SPEAKER_01

I I I will take 120% uh risk. Yeah. When Sonalis mitigate the 100% risk into 70%. So it's a brilliant match, in my opinion. Yeah, it's a match made in heaven. Yeah, absolutely. We can call that, right? Um yeah, so so it it both, I would it, it's it's the vision is the same. Mission.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, you had little side quests, yeah. It's uh it's fun. So all right, Pramu. So first property to second property, of course, you guys got lucky and you did it sooner than most, and then third property. So, how long did it take to get to 10 properties from the first property? Yeah, very good questions.

SPEAKER_01

Um, Vish. See, third property, the apartment helped us to access equity after about probably about two years later, including the equity of our own occupant. So we always access the equity as an investment loan or line of credit. Uh, it's it always has been tax-deductible debt when we access equity. It was there, it was ready for us to go nuts. We were accumulating equity. We were happy, properties were there, you know, and then we bought a uh a commercial property. The third property, we we bought a very small commercial property, but it's a strategic move. We bought it under SMSF to use it for our business, and again, thinking long term.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, and then so by this point, you guys had also utilized different uh financial strategies, like you set up an SMSF.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. So this is where the scenario came into play. You are self-employed, you're not paying superannuation for yourself. So she's a financial planner. She's looking at how about your retirement? What are you planning on doing? What if you get sick and you don't work and you don't have anything? Where's your nesting? So she comes and says, We gotta do a self-managed superpower. We didn't have enough money to do a self-managed superpower, but she knew we're gonna have a lot of money in the future, the way we are doing things, and then she created it and she said, Okay, buy your commercial property, your your office from SMSF and rent to your company. Okay, Sunali, I'll do that. That's our third property.

SPEAKER_00

And of course, we can also you and you and Sunali, you also advise most of our clients who have the capacity to do this, how to do this, right? I mean, we we help clients.

SPEAKER_01

So absolutely we are giving giving advice based on the experience, what we have, and and based on some of the strategies that we have used, we know they work. Yeah, they're not something that I come up with a strategy last night. I just want to pick a client and see whether it works. No, we don't do things like that. I will do that strategy first and see whether it works. Most of the time it works because of Sanaris, he de-risks the lot of risks we take and it works very well.

SPEAKER_00

You've jumped in the well, survived the landing, and then you throw other people in the same well because you know the survival. The well is good.

SPEAKER_01

This well is good.

SPEAKER_00

So, so how long per move? First property, yeah, second property, third property until how long did it take until you get built property?

SPEAKER_01

So the journey was we have we were accumulating, we were looking at opportunities, we were looking at odd shape blocks. There were a few odd shape blocks we the we didn't end up buying because they were asking too much. Because we were looking at, okay, hang on, if nobody's buying, you got a discount a lot because we have to make money. Yeah, we are not in the business for vendor to make money. Somebody else can do it. We are not in that business. We were looking, always looking, looking, looking, looking. Um COVID hit. Right now, we had quite a lot of equity to play. Crisis time, people are scared. Actually, actually, during this time, we were going back and forth to Sri Lanka. I bought my fourth property in Sri Lanka. As in you bought a property in Sri Lanka. In Sri Lanka during this, just before COVID. Yeah. Totally wrong decision. That's if you ask me, Pramo, what are the mistakes we have done? Uh number one. Emotion, emotion. I got emotion. I let my emotions to make the decision. I bought the land.

SPEAKER_00

It's a ball. What drive you to this land? It sounds like some land, you know.

SPEAKER_01

No, it's it's it's a good land. Okay, nothing wrong with it. It doesn't, it doesn't suit my portfolio. Right? It doesn't make me money. What kind of area do you buy this land in, like near a lake or river?

SPEAKER_02

No.

SPEAKER_01

Just a random. Just a random, we had random thoughts that you know, build a house for ourselves there, so we may go to stay.

SPEAKER_00

So this is one of those side quests, you know. He loves taking risks, and this is this is a side quest.

SPEAKER_01

I still have that thing, uh I have to get rid of it at some point because it doesn't work for me. Yeah, there are a lot of opportunities on that land for a lot of other people, but it's not for me. Yeah. So there as a fourth. COVID hit, everything changes, Vish. So COVID is one of those things that everybody is talking about negativity. They're talking about property prices coming down, people are gonna lose jobs, therefore, they won't be able to pay the mortgage, people will be out of properties, there won't be tenants, rent investors won't have money. My god, the media was giving it out to the next level. Now, a lot of investors will panic. This is a panic mode. So COVID hit, working from home, loads of time we see for me now, right now. Working in office versus working in your home. I can work 24 hours now. I don't have to travel. I started looking into these things a bit more closer. I see I saw a lot of opportunities. Properties are in the market, not selling, because the agents can't show the properties to the investors. Investors don't buy properties just like that. Now these are established properties. So I told Sonali, there's a property here, i realestate.com.au, it's a 700, no, sorry, 995 square meters of land, 99, 995 square meters of land, three-bedroom house, nine hundred and ninety-five square meters of land, a three-bedroom house.

SPEAKER_00

Three bedroom house.

SPEAKER_01

Where is this base water by the way? Okay, um, I told Sonali, can I buy it? And she was like, Why? Because she looked at the number, she this person asking eight hundred and eight hundred and ninety thousand dollars. Can I buy it? And she said, Don't you think it's too much? You don't even know what is it? Okay, what's the price you would buy? If you can get it under 750, buy it. You sure? Yeah, done. I start calling. I'm calling, I'm I'm hustling now. This fellow, right? I knew the agent is struggling. Not a single person in in the area will look at this property. I'm only looking at from old images of satellite, right? Nothing much to see. I said, all right, I'll give you I'll give you 700. And he laughed. I said, Why are you laughing? My my price is 890. I don't care your price. This is what I'm willing to pay. Will you take it? No, done. Negotiation went back and forth. Bought it for 730. Still have it. 995 square meters. Can go nuts with it. I think base water. So that that's number five. COVID time, I loved it, right? I thought let's ramp up. Let's ramp this up. This is the best time to ramp up because the government came and started giving money, free money. If you're building houses, $25,000. Or if you're building, if you're renovating your house, $25,000. Boost the building. Just boost the construction industry, keep people, keep the economy going. I think it's a great move. I thought, you know what? Let's go. Land developers were struggling to sell because people can't come and see the land. I saw an opportunity there. I bought four properties at a go. Why? Because I had equity to play with. Play with. I was ready. I was ready myself and Sanali. We were ready. We did the numbers. Every single purchase, we did the numbers. Okay, fine. Depreciation, good. Is it negative cash flow? No. Because the interest rate started coming down. Yeah. Right? It was all positive cash flow. That's okay. It can be positive cash flow because we get depreciation on the property, so we can play with it. We can play with it. That's okay. We're not gonna pay. We're not gonna pay uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh tax for it being a positive cash flow property. Brilliant straight away four that become eight again. Now this is house and land, uh brand new properties. We love brand new properties for obvious reason. We are looking for depreciation, we are looking to reduce the taxes that we need to pay, right?

SPEAKER_00

This is the government way of so why so so so so so to uh elaborate a bit more on that topic, as a property investor, right? Why do you buy investment properties?

SPEAKER_01

As a property investor, one of the first things I look at when I buy an investment property, will this investment property give me benefits along the uh uh along its lifetime? Now, my what's my lifetime of this property? Is it three years, it is five years, is it seven years, or is it ten years? Or is it 30 years? Just because the in Australia we we can we can have 30 year long term doesn't mean we keep it for 30 years, yeah, right? Most likely my my I will always look at a property for a maximum of seven years. What am I getting throughout the seven years? What's the dollar value? I look at that, right? I double check the sonali and say, am I getting this? She confirms. If she doesn't know, she goes and does uh research and she comes, yep, get this. Okay, awesome. Then I look at in case if I to sell it, will I make money? Or is it a loss? If it's a loss, I don't I won't buy. As long as if it's not a loss. Now we see this is where a lot of people go wrong. When I say if it's a loss, I don't buy. But it doesn't have to make me money when I sell as long as it can give me the money I invested back to me, yeah, I'm happy. But most of the time I look for an appreciation. If I put $100, I would love to get $200 back. Right? That's the way I look at it. I don't look at I buy $600,000 for a for a property to sell it at $1.2 million. I don't look at that. I look at if I put $30,000 to invest into my $600,000 property, will I get $100,000 back? That's what I look at. Yeah. Right. So that's the way I I always advise every single investor to look at. So that's how that's how we we fast track ourselves into 10 properties. So we ended up keep buying properties during the COVID time. Um that helped us to come to 10 very quickly. Then after that, it was very different. We see it was it was all about strategy, how to maximize. There are properties we bought as a one property, we subdivide, then it became three. So we buy one, we got two. It's not for free, but obviously that's investment, but our cost is lower. Right? Cost is lower. So when the cost is lower, right? When the cost is lower to have two properties, Isabella? Yeah, yeah. When the cost is lower to have two properties, I go for it. Yeah, then my our our accumulation was very, very it was on steroid. Right. So we loved it. We we we we we loved it, and and we are continue to do that. And now we are into developments. We are into developments because it it gives us a lot of other opportunities as well. And and and our equity is helping us to create more equity, but at the same time to reinvest the equity in in assets that we know that us well. You understand? We are very comfortable in this space. Yeah. So we we are gonna be keep doing this. We will two of us will love it, and when we look at certain types of uh projects, what are the challenges on those projects? We will do it. And and uh like even even own occupied houses. I'm building one right now, and you know, we are pushing certain limits in that house. But we've taken we we mitigated men a lot of risk on that. So it's it's fun. Sonali has let me do have a bit of fun with this house. She's let her puppy out of the cage a little bit, gave me a bit bullish, yeah, gave me a little bit of leave for this house. I said, okay, thank you very much. So so so so Pramu, you know, uh to talk about Can I Can I Can I touch you on something of Sonali's episode? Now, if people haven't listened to this, well listen to this. Yeah, in her episode, she says that when we when we came to Australia, we we were renting in Food Scray, we didn't have a car. Yeah. In the car park, we had a Coles car Coles cart park. I I took this day. Cold's cart. Coast cart. That we I parked it because some mother bugger comes and parking on my car space. I didn't like that. Hang on, I'm paying rent. Yeah, it's my spot. So I bought the car cold scart. I park it, I literally put it right in the middle. Yeah. With some stones so that nobody can move. Yeah. If they move, I go, who moved it? Yeah. It's my car. Oh, it's got four years. I mean, it's it's it's it's my ride. Right? So we used to take our laundry. Go and listen to uh uh the previous episode, she talks about this. Should she also let me play with the sex test too? Yeah. Right now, when I said that she has given me a bit of leave, she've given me the okay to have some nice rides. A larger garage. Yeah. Boys and the toys, you know. So now I can put my cars in in the all of my cars into the garage. Yeah. So it's just a space for that trolley in the garage.

SPEAKER_02

Ah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

At least another two more cars there as well.

SPEAKER_00

I don't think she'll let that happen, but uh I'm happy. Yeah. I'm happy. I mean, yeah, you have to enjoy your success, right? Yeah. So so Pramu, one thing I want to touch on, right, before we close up, something you always uh you're an advocate of is what helped you achieve your success is getting rid of the poor man's mindset. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Elaborate a bit more on this. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So poor man's poor man's mindset. That's where a lot of people go wrong. When you have a poor mind, what is the poor man's mindset? Right? You want me to what? Put it down like that? Yeah. So what is the poor man's mindset? Poor man's mindset is in my opinion, you're just following a system that works for some other people. You're not in you're not in that financial situation. You're not you're not having that kind of lifestyle. You're just following somebody else's system. Why? You have a poor man's mindset. You're not willing to change, you're not willing to try things, you're not willing to take risk. Right? Poor man doesn't take risks. Have you seen people take risks when they are in a position that they're comfortable? You're saying comfort kills comfort potential. Comfort skill pretty much kill wealth creation. It kills it. Right. So when you come out of the poor man mindset, you will start listening to people who do things differently. No one has done it. This guy is doing it. Why why are you what are you doing? People are doing, people are making money. What are you doing? Then you start learning why he's doing or she's doing, why this company is doing. Once you understand the why, then you're not in the poor man's mindset. Right? If you start making decisions based on making money, you're in a poor man's mindset.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. What do you base your decisions on?

SPEAKER_01

It's not about the money, it's the journey. Right? What are the things I'm learning along the line while making money? Money is an inevitable thing. If you do the right thing, if you invest correctly, return is inevitable. Who said the return is not inevitable? You're just listening to the poor men poor men who done the wrong thing and lost money. Yeah. Right? That's why they are saying, oh, you know, if you do it, you may lose money. None of them say if you do it, you will lose money. They don't say that, right? They say you may lose money. Why?

SPEAKER_00

Because they're afraid they haven't done it.

SPEAKER_01

Done it. Or they've lost a lot of money, and then they want you to also lose money. So then they can make money while you're losing money.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

You have to be very careful if these kind of equations. Right? How many courses there to become uh wealthy? Yeah. How to become a millionaire.

SPEAKER_00

How to become a millionaire? How to become a millionaire. Right? I think I've seen a course. There are so many like uh property gurus, property gurus, selling courses. Yeah, selling courses.

SPEAKER_01

Some of them don't even have two, three properties. No, no, so so there are so many courses out there, right? Yeah. Right? Data be some some some people have databased uh courses, some people have uh location-based courses, some people are type of property. Is it really matters if you don't know how to manage your own money? Right? Yeah, if you don't know what how to even access your equity in the correct way, all these courses don't matter. True. You can't go to double figure is very hard for a lot of people when it comes to property. Yeah, double figures is going to be very hard. I work with quite a lot of I work with a number of high-end clients. You'll be surprised that uh uh high-end clients take a long time to go to double figures because they they take time to mitigate risk, they look at certain things, and at the same time they trust the uh the right advisor. The right advisor will never sell them properties every year, they won't do it because then if that person is doing that might that person they're just trying to make money out of you, yeah. Right advisor will look at markets, will look at trends, will look at new trends or new strategies, right? So some it takes time, it it'll take time. Yeah, so I have told very bluntly to all my clients if you if you're expecting me to get you from five properties to 20 properties in less than uh two years, very sorry, don't pay me, you do it by yourself. Forget about it, it won't happen, right? It won't happen, yeah. But if you are patient enough, and if you also trust the system, I'll get you there. We have a system that works, we will teach you these are the things I will also do it with you, by the way. There could be new strategies that I will uh uh implement.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, we've seen that you know sometimes we find a good investment property for one of the clients. Client says, I don't want to buy it, and then you're like, I did the number, you do the numbers. Give that to me. It's mine, you know, I'm taking it.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

It happens a lot in the office, right? Yeah, exactly. It's just that Sunali doesn't approve everything because that's a lot of paperwork for her. Yeah, but you've done the numbers in all that Sunali, I want to buy this.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, because it it's it's it just makes sense. Just makes sense. I mean, I put what $100,000, three years later I sell it, I make $300,000. Makes sense. Yeah, exactly. Give me that money. If you don't want it, I have told you, right? I have told you very specifically. If that client doesn't buy, do not sell it to anybody, just come and give it to me. Yeah, yeah. No, we we we we we give the opportunities to everyone, right? But only for our ecosystem. If no one buys within our ecosystem, if it's a really good investment opportunity, I'll buy it. I can afford to buy it. I have done my hard yard to do do these kind of decisions. I don't think now Zanari makes too much of tweaking. Yeah. Because for me to buy a 700,000 house and land package, if it makes sense, he said, ah, you know what? Let him do it because it's okay. Yeah, there's depreciation coming, you're not losing money. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00

Uh and that I guess that's that's something that a lot of uh new property investors don't look at when they're buying their first or second investment property. All they're looking at is, oh, but the mortgage is going to cost me this much, and I can't get enough rental income to cover the mortgage. That's literally all they focus on. Poor man's mindset. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01

Poor man's mindset. If first-home buyers can think their first home as a first investment, see how easy is the decision is going to be? I can assure you the couples won't even go to color selections. Yeah. Because it doesn't matter. Yeah. Right? Why do you have to waste four hours of your time picking the color of the tile that someone else will be using in about two years later? Why pick the most easiest common color? Who cares? Just the rent of what you need. Why do you have to wait four hours to do that? That's the yeah, that's the poor man's mindset. You come out of that, double figures, property portfolio is easy and beyond.

SPEAKER_00

So, Pramu, you know, to uh to wrap up, yeah. What here's some advice that I want you to give to investors, right? What's the biggest thing holding investors back, first-time property investors back from scaling their property portfolio? You touched on this poor man's mindset, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So that's one of them. Um I think lack of knowledge, right? That that that that I think it's all about knowledge. If you're going to rely your decision making based on Chat GPT and property gurus or property gurus, I mean this is a common thing, is ChatGPT. You're in for a shock. Because there are so many other AI software that's better than Chad GPT. Did Chad GPT predict the Trump's going to go and have war with uh Iran?

SPEAKER_00

And did they predict now?

SPEAKER_01

It'll tell because it had happened. Yeah. Right? So you can't, so that's where a lot of first-home bias goes wrong. And and the second thing, or third thing, the lot of first-home bias goes wrong from the day one, they are trying to build their dream house. They are putting 5% deposit, borrowing 95% from the bank, which is good by the way. Leveraging is good, right? You need to leverage much as you can, but why are you overcapitalizing? Even though you don't pay Lemma, you're still paying. But but why? Why are you overcapitalizing? Because you can't get that money back unless you pay lender's mortgage insurance. Yeah. Right? You can't. Don't overcapitalize. This is not the house you're gonna live when you are you know if you're if you are 30, don't think that in when you're 35, you're living in this house. True. Think this is the house when you are 33 whose first investment property. What are the things you can do to this house to make it my first investment? Look at it that way. Yeah, right? You know, these these these are some really good information I am giving out because there are certain areas I have learned by doing certain mistakes as well. Right? If you ask me, Pramo, would you spend that amount of money in your first home? No. I would have tried to build that house probably about 200,000. Because that 60k I paid to my builder is in vain.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

But I would have looked in what are the ways I can reduce the 260 to you know 200? Maybe, maybe not, but but at least I could have got away with 240. Do the numbers. Yeah, don't get carried away. Yeah, first home, be humble about it. It's a first home. It's not your forever home, it's not forever home. So the common mistakes, that's why people can't scale up. Yeah, they get stuck.

SPEAKER_00

Awesome, Prabhupada. Uh, thank you so much for uh you know sharing your journey uh on this episode on how you built your property portfolio from your first property, yeah. Uh to I don't even know which number it is now, right? So it's revolving, it's exactly it's it's it's it's growing. Um but one thing, one one key factor that played a vital role in uh this journey that you and Sonali came on together, yeah, is your relationship, your dynamic, yep, right? Your understanding of each other.

SPEAKER_01

Yep.

SPEAKER_00

Uh you know, all jokes aside, you know, it's a good it's good that Sonali has a leash on you. But what is some advice you can give to uh two individuals, you know, partners who are just starting out, yeah, who are looking to do what you and Sunali had done together. Yeah, uh, what is some advice you can give leave them with? The most important thing I would say, trust each other.

SPEAKER_01

Right, you don't try to question and put each other down. Trust the moment you have the trust, when you start trusting each other's decisions, try and marry it together. Try and find the the most common ground that you both exist on a decision, right? Yeah, you can even apply this to relationship as well if you want to buy it. I mean, this is relationship advice, right? But but see the common ground on that decision, on that property. What is it? Is it the location that we both like? Or is it the property being a four-bedroom in this way that we both like? Or is it the future opportunities making short-term sacrifices now for better what we both like? Find that out first. Yeah, once you find it, then all these other things that you disagree doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_00

Find the common ground, common goal, yeah, common ground, that that that will have the like you said before, you know, have be have the same vision. Absolutely, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01

Because there's no point one person buying the property for reinvestment and the other person is buying it for to live in for the next 10 years. You're gonna have a lot of problems inside that house. Right?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's a good thing, it's a four-bedroom house.

SPEAKER_01

Inside the house, you're having problems. One person living in one room, the other one is what I mean. You might as well go on rooming.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, rooming houses. Oh, yeah, duplex, duplexes, rooming houses these days, uh one of the popular investments. Uh dual key. Yeah, dual key. I mean, and if you want to buy a dual key house uh as a couple, you know, talk to us. One of the new things I'm looking into these days, rooming houses.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, but not for you and Sunali as an investment to add to your portfolio so uh common ground, find it. Yeah, and and and and that'll that'll definitely help uh couples to make decisions in the correct way. Um I think to be, I mean, there's nothing else that point onwards, because once you find the common ground, you will work around the rest of it. Trust each other, trust each other. That is that is the main thing. You get those things sorted out.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Awesome. So with that being said, thank you so much, Pramu, for your time, for sharing your valuable uh pleasure insights, your journey, right? And for any clients listening, you know, if you want to do this for yourself, you're looking at buying whether it's your first term or first investment property or your fifth or your sixth investment property, or you want a financial, uh a tailored financial strategy, right? Where you where you could be a seasoned investor who has multiple investment properties, you know, but you want to find some tailored financial strategies that work for you, uh talk to us at TFS. Absolutely. You can speak to Sonali, you can speak to Pramu, and uh they'll help you find the best structure that works for you.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and any of our team members, I mean, they they've been trained by us, myself and Sonali. Yeah, you you speak to them, it's like you're speaking to us. Yeah. So they they're not coming up with their own ideas, they're trained by us, though.

SPEAKER_00

They you want a slice of the cake, you speak to the team, you want the whole cake, you speak to the robots and all this. Thank you for tuning in, guys, and we'll catch you guys on the next episode. Take care.