Season 2: Episode 7 Let the Evidence Speak

🕵️‍♀️Season 2: Episode 7 Let the Evidence Speak 🗣️ 

This episode explores a death investigation that initially began as a missing persons case. After additional investigative follow-up and a secondary search of the residence, officers located the missing woman inside a trash can within the home.

The circumstances surrounding the scene immediately raised questions and challenged investigators’ perceptions of what may have occurred. The case became a powerful reminder of why investigators must avoid assumptions and remain objective throughout the investigative process.

In this discussion, we examine:
• The transition from a missing persons investigation to a death investigation
• Scene interpretation and investigative bias
• Why assumptions can negatively impact an investigation
• The importance of remaining impartial and evidence-driven
• The critical role of the Medical Examiner in determining cause and manner of death

This episode highlights the importance of allowing facts, evidence, and forensic findings to guide investigative conclusions rather than emotion or personal belief.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hello and welcome to Through the CSI Lens Behind the Yellow Tape. I'm Christina Breakman and I will be your host. I know that's no surprise to you. So we are in season two, officially episode seven. How cool is that! I am very excited that we are continuing this journey together. And I hope that you're enjoying what you're hearing. Definitely, as I mentioned previously, this is part memoir, part, hey, do you want to do this for a living? Let me tell you what I know as far as getting into the field, your education, your training, and then what you may experience as a CSI. And then, of course, just share some of the scenes that I worked that I can still remember, and then you know, all the other things. So hopefully you're enjoying it. Make sure you stay connected with us. You can follow us on Facebook, Instagram. You can also email me if you have any questions or you have suggestions. I'm always open for that. Definitely, definitely open for suggestions if there's something that you would like covered. If there's a case that you're interested in, I can look into it and we can discuss it. If you're interested in having a question and answer, whatever, just reach out to me and we can go from there. So again, just want to say thank you for being here and giving me your time and allowing me to share my love and passion for crime scene investigation with all of you. So the last episode was kind of just a fun episode for me. And I shared with all of you some of the things that I loved about the job and then some of the funny moments that I had on the field. I can't remember if I shared with you in the last episode. I think I did when we had a search warrant on a drug house and somebody was, you know, it was a homicide. Obviously, that's pretty typical. And SWAT went in. If and if I said that on the last episode, I apologize, or even on a previous episode, but real quickly, I just this came to mind recently. And you know, I get there. Supposedly SWAT has been in the home. It's a two-story kind of townhouse, and they've cleared the home, it's safe. I ask, are there any pets in the house? Anything I need to be aware of, any hazards? Nope, you're good. So I go in there because that's the first thing we need to do after securing a search warrant, and after they've secured the residence or business or whatever it is that we're searching, I go in and photograph to show and basically document the condition of the residence prior to any search. And during that, I was upstairs and opened up a door into a bedroom where guess what? There was a huge pit bull, and he was not happy about me opening that door, and it was the only door that was closed in the house, so I should have known. But I literally opened the door and it was dark. All I could see him was sitting on a futon, he's looking at me, and I'm looking at him, and I slammed the door. That dog tried to go right through the door, which I'm really surprised he didn't because he was a big dog, and so I go running downstairs outside. I'm like, How come you didn't tell me there was this pit bull in the the bedroom? And they're like, There's a pit bull in there. I'm like, somebody had to have cleared that room, right? So, long story short, we had to lure him out of that room, and so we took a mattress off of the one of the beds and blocked the hallway, and then they had ordered Subway for food because we were there for so long. They opened up the door to the bedroom, the dog came out, they took some of the food from Subway and threw it into another bedroom, which the dog took the bait and we slammed the door shut because we had a string attached to it that was long enough for us to close it. And it was, I think he was a sergeant at the time. I don't know if he was a lieutenant yet, but he literally was climbing up on the banister to do all this. I wish I could have taken a photo, but it was quite funny. But in the same thing, same sense, I was a little irritated because I don't know about you, but I do not want to be attacked by a pit bull. And from what I understand, they do not like to release their bite. So yeah, was not a happy camper, to say the least. But it was funny after the fact because here's this grown man climbing on this wood banister trying to reach over the other like banister, or I don't even know what you want to call it. Anyway, trying to get this dang dog. And guess what was in that room? All the drugs, all the money, all the weapons, he was guarding all of it. So yeah, all it took was a subway sandwich to get that dog to go into the other room so that we could go into the room that was being, you know, guarded and photograph it and document and collect and so forth. So anyway, that was a funny story. And so I know if you're listening to that podcast your episode, you're probably thinking this was all stupid. Like, why does she find any of this amusing? And I have to say, it's really just the simple things sometimes, the inside jokes, the you know, face plants in somebody's yard because you, you know, tripped over your own shoes or just a conversation you had. I don't know. Get to remember that we're dealing with stressful situations, we're dealing with people at their worst moments, we're seeing the worst of society. And so sometimes it just is those little things that just help you get through the day. And so those are still the things that I remember and I choose to remember about working with some of my colleagues and just some of the experiences I had that weren't all, you know, horror, I guess, or tragedy. So, anyway, I hope you enjoyed that episode. I thought it was kind of fun. So, today I thought I would talk about another case that I went to, and this is a prime example of don't ever assume you know what happened and how it happened. So, in this case, this was a case of a missing person. The call came in from the husband, and they were both elderly. So, when I say elderly, I want to say late 60s into mid-70s. I can't recall the exact age, but they were retired and you know, in their golden years, as we like to call. But they were married, and I from what I recall, they lived an alternative lifestyle. And is that significant? Not necessarily, but it can be relevant depending on the circumstances of the case, right? So the husband calls in and says, you know, my wife is missing, we had an argument. I don't know what they argued about, but I just know that they had an argument. And it sounds like from his standpoint, it was a verbal argument, and they had quite a few of them on a regular basis. But apparently she was missing, he hadn't heard from her, and he hadn't seen her. Her phone was at home, her keys were at home for the vehicle in the home, and her wallet was there, her purse. So he just didn't know where she was. She didn't work, so she wasn't at work. They he contacted family, he contacted friends, you know, nobody had really heard from her. It was unlike her to be missing or gone for any length of time. So officers went out to the residence, they talked to him, they took the information, they generated a missing persons report, they searched the home, they didn't find anything suspicious at the time. After the officer left the scene, you know, he or she wrote the report, it was generated, it was assigned to the missing persons unit. And so that gets turned over to a detective and an investigator, and then they take over the case from there. So they work that case probably for a good week, you know, following up on any leads, trying to determine, you know, where she's at. They re-establish contact with the husband, talk with family, friends, do all the things. And literally, there's no leads. Nobody knows, other than the fact that we know they had a fight and that they lived an alternative lifestyle. So, of course, they are speaking with any connections that they have through that as well. And again, nobody's giving them any information, nothing suspicious other than the fact that nobody's heard from her in a week. So, missing persons decides to go out to the home again, re-establish contact with the husband, they request officers, meet them out there. So, officers go out there, and you know, they do their investigation again, get more data from the scene, get more information from the husband. Officers again check this area, check the home. And during this review, you know, with the husband and also searching the home again, there is outside there is kind of a carport, and then next to the carport, there's a partially enclosed area. And when I say partially enclosed, it's a stucco wall. So if you're in Arizona, you know all most of the homes out here are secured as far as the backyard with a stucco wall, and it's usually about six feet tall. So at some point they had built on this extra area for basically storage of trash cans and just miscellaneous items alongside their carport. So officers again are searching that area, and there's a trash can in this area, and it's that standard trash can that you could get probably at Home Depot or Lowe's, and it's green and it has a lid. It's kind of the old school type trash cans, not the kind that you get from you know, waste management or whomever you know pay for your trash pickup. Not the big trash cans that we would typically see out at the side of the curb, you know, during designated days out here in Arizona. One for recycle, one for regular trash, and then also they have one, I believe, for like landscaping clippings type thing. So here there is this green trash can, and the lid is on top of it, and then there's like a two by four that's kind of resting on it along with some other items. I don't know, or at least I can't recall whether or not it was like that briar when the officers went out initially. So I can't answer that. And from what I recall, it was a different patrol officer that went out to the scene at that the second time. So I don't know if that was like that previously or this happened afterwards, but officers decided to check that trash can, and guess what's inside that trash can? It is a deceased woman. So, yes, it was the husband's wife. So, what are you thinking? At you know, instantly, what are you thinking when you hear that? Probably the same thing I was thinking. This she was murdered, this is a homicide for sure. There is no way that it could be anything other than that, and he has hidden her. And at some point, maybe I know I'm even going as far as thinking maybe originally officers did check the trash can and she wasn't in there, but now she's in there after the you know the case, he moved her, possibly. Like, this is the kind of stuff that's going through my mind at the scene because I don't know. I'm just trying to look at the scene, make my own observations, and trying to determine, you know, what's the probability of her getting or climbing inside that trash can, putting the lid on top of the trash can, along with the two by four on top of the trash can, and then she kills herself inside the trash can, and nobody hears it, and nobody used that trash can in the meantime. So those are the kind of things that I'm thinking of. But I get out there, you know, obviously she's discovered, and I'm thinking, okay, this is a homicide. I know everybody else was kind of leaning towards that initially, and so they again begin asking more questions of the husband and kind of going more in depth and questioning why or how she got in there, when was the last time somebody used that trash can, and how was that two-boy floor placed on top of the trash can? So they're asking those relevant, pertinent, pertinent information, trying to get gather that. And so I immediately start taking photographs of the area. I'm documenting the address, the front of the house, and then I'm obviously documenting that in partially enclosed area, and I want to capture the entire area in there. So I am photographing from all four angles, all four sides. I'm photographing the trash can the way it is, the two by four, the surrounding areas. I'm taking overall to show the scene as it is, how we found it. I'm taking mid-range photos to show where that trash can and two by four are in relation to my scene, to a fixed object. And then obviously, I'm going to do a close-up of that trash can, two by four, and anything else in close proximity that would give brand, color, size, condition, so that that's all documented. And then we take the two by four off and then photograph that and making sure there's nothing, you know, incriminating or anything of forensic value that's notable, like maybe there's DNA on there, possibly blood, or what appears to be blood, damage that may have happened, maybe during an altercation. So, all things like that. I'm going to photograph that. She's deceased, she's very she's a small lady, and that's about all I can see because so I'm pretty much seeing the back of her head, a little bit of the top of her head, her shoulders, you know, the partial back, upper back. She is clothed, so I'm taking photos of that. And at that point, I stop and I wait till the death investigator arrives on scene from the medical examiner's office. And if you recall the way it worked here in Maricopa County, the scene belongs to the police department, the body belongs to the medical examiner's office. So I'm not going to manipulate that body at all. I'm going to wait until the medical examiner, you know, death investigator arrives on scene. So I'm trying to determine how did she die? Did she suffocate? Did she take pills? Did she drink herself to death? Was she assaulted to the point where she sustained serious injuries that could have caused death if they weren't treated? Or, you know, was a serious blunt force trauma where she died instantaneously? Or is this maybe a suicide? It could be a suicide. I can't tell at this point, but it could be a suicide. I can't totally rule that out. But again, I'm still kind of thinking, even though I probably shouldn't have been, that this is a suicide, that this is a homicide. This is suspicious. I mean, who crawls into a trash can outside your house in a carport and kills yourself? I don't know. I don't I've never had that before. I have had people commit suicide on the back patio and so forth inside the garage, but never in a trash can. So this is a first for me. So, you know, I'm just documenting with photographs. So Omi gets there, the death investigator gets there, there's conversation being had, he's talking to the missing persons investigator, he's talking to the patrol officer, he's talking to the to the husband, getting his information that he needs. We have a conversation. I tell him what I know about the case, I tell him what I observed, then he proceeds to, you know, make his own observations, writing, taking field notes, taking his own photographs. They do their own photographs, a little bit different than us, but that's okay. We each have our own protocols. And then we're trying to determine are we going to remove her from this trash can or are we going to transport her in the trash can? And that's not a decision I make, that's a decision that the death investigator is going to make with the assistance of a medical examiner that's on duty. So he calls and has a conversation with the doctor on duty, and they determine that they are going to transport her in the trash can. So this is another first for me. Never seen this happen. During the course of this investigation and through conversation, it was determined that a pistol was missing from the home. So we were trying to determine and see if maybe there was a gun inside the trash can. Do we want to remove her if her hand is on the trigger somehow? No. Probably not the safest way to make that gun safe is by removing her because it could accidentally discharge and somebody could become injured. But is it the safest transporting this trash can with a loaded gun down to the medical examiner's office? No. So we're kind of trying to determine what is the best course of action. But at the end of the day, it was determined that we are just going to collect her in the trash can, and that's what they did. So they transported her down to the medical examiner's office, and they did an x-ray, some sort of x-ray that would allow a gun be x-rayed. And what they were able to determine is yes, she did have a gun with her inside the trash can. And what I later found out is that she or they determined that it was a suicide, that she had at some point after the argument, which I don't know what the argument was about. You know, I'm sure the missing persons investigator and detective and officer were able to make that determination through conversations with the husband at some point. But they were able to determine when they did the autopsy that she actually committed suicide and that she shot herself. So this case was a prime example of not assuming ahead of time, based off what you're seeing on a preliminary basis, that yeah, this is a homicide or this is suspicious. Is it suspicious? Yes, it is. Like who go who does that? Who commits suicide in a trash can outside in your yard or side yard? Obviously, somebody who was under emotional distress, who at some point was feeling very desperate and very hopeless at some point, which is very sad, right? Because now the family has had to suffer a very tragic loss of, you know, their mother, a grandmother, a sister, a daughter, a wife, a friend, coworker at some point. So it was very sad, tragic ending to this. I still never learned who put that two by four on there because I could see where she could kind of close the lid partially. You know, it was closed enough. So I could see where you know you climb in there and you could probably put the lid on top of you. Though two by four, definitely not. Like I don't know how she would have done that. So my guess is that her husband was probably out there at some point doing some work or maybe just putting, you know, supplies or items in that, you know, partially secured area, and he just laid that two by four. On there, knowing that he wasn't going to use the trash can, or maybe he just put the two by four in an area that he it could be accessible so that when he needed it, it would be there. Or I don't even know, maybe there was a storm or something, it was windy, and he just put it on there to kind of secure the lid or prevent the trash can from knocking over, blowing over. I mean, it could be anything. I I don't have information on that part. So thought it was interesting, and that really did change how I approached my death scenes, whether it was they're telling me it's a homicide, they're telling me it's suspicious, they're telling me it's natural causes. Because again, you know, I have had other cases where, you know, somebody has died, and there weren't any necessarily obvious signs of trauma, but what was determined later in the autopsy is that there was blunt force trauma to the head. We just weren't able to see it, or maybe the death investigator wasn't able to feel it during their physical examination of the body. So it's just again was another reminder that I need to go in with open eyes and an open mind, that anything is possible. Like anything is humanly possible, and some things are going to be a shock, and you're, I mean, you're going to be surprised that that was the result or the conclusion at the end of the investigation. I mean, if you would have been on that scene with me, I guarantee you probably would have felt the same way. Like, there's no way that she climbed in that trash can and shot herself. Like that just doesn't happen. Like, I would have bet my salary that that was not the case, that it was a homicide that they got into a fight, there was an altercation between the two. Maybe it became physical as well, and she was injured and succumbed to her injuries. And so at some point he hid her, maybe not necessarily in the trash can originally, but someplace where police weren't able to find her, and then finally moved her to the trash can when he knew they were coming out to, you know, speak with him again, and maybe he panicked. Like in all these things are plausible, right? But the fact that she chose to kill herself in a plastic trash can was a shock to me. And I still was still, I believe, I recall was just in disbelief. Like, I don't really know if I believe that, you know, but the doctor said that that's what happened. It was a self-inflicted gunshot wound. I can't remember if it was to the side of her temple, I think it was, but don't quote me on that. But yeah, that was a shocker. So that really, for me, just changed or just reminded me and reiterated, you know, what I've learned through training is an experience that just when you think you know what happened or you think the evidence is telling you one thing, it's plausible that something else could have contributed to that. And the outcome may not be what you think it is. So that was just a good learning experience for me personally, and again, just really kind of changed how I approach scenes in general, but really how I approach death scenes. So yeah, we were all very shocked about that. I and again, I don't know how officers missed that when they were searching the property. I don't know, and I'm not here to quarterback anybody because you know that wasn't my job. I also had another case that was similar but wasn't a suicide. So again, this was like in a 55 and older community. And for those of you who know, you know, at least out here in Arizona, a lot of these mobile home parks are rampant with alternative lifestyles, it's not uncommon. So I guess what happened in this incident, which isn't funny, but I guess it was normal for partners to kind of like swap, and then they would do this like hide and seek type game where they would hide from you know whoever was trying trying to, you know hook up with them, or come, you know, it was some kind of conquest where they were trying to make it a game, and so they would hide from each other in each other's homes in random areas. So again, this lady ends up missing, nobody knows where she is, she doesn't work, no family's heard from her, no spouse. I don't know, she didn't have a spouse, so she was single, so nobody heard from her, no friends, no neighbors, and trust me, those neighbors know everything about you out in those 55 and older communities. Not too much gets past them because they are so interconnected. They're most of them are snowbirds, and they just know each other really well. They, you know, participate in all the fun activities, I guess apparently, and partner swapping. But you know, those places also have a lot of recreational activities that they engage in and parties and and so forth. I mean, they know how to party at those places. I could, yeah, they party like rock stars. So, anyway, this woman ends up missing. Officers go out to her mobile home, they search the mobile home, everything looks like it's in proper order, there's nothing suspicious, nothing broken, nothing appears to be missing. You know, they talk about does she have health conditions, you know, that may have caused her to wander off. You know, they check the surrounding areas and the canals, they check hospitals, they check jails, they do all the things trying to figure out where she is. So she goes in as a missing person, they again do an investigation on her, do follow-up with friends and family, neighbors, everything. Nobody can give them any insight as to where she disappeared to, but it is not it's uncommon that she turns up missing. She's pretty social and again engaging in her community. So she goes missing, they can't find her, several days pass, officers go back out to the home and search the interior of the home again. But what they didn't know previously is that the bed actually lifts up and you can store items underneath the bed. So it literally will lift up, and it's this whole the size is the size of that space where they typically store stuff is the size of the bed. So you're talking about a full-size bed, at least maybe it was a queen, I don't remember, that you could put stuff under. Well, when they lifted up this bed, guess who they found up underneath there? She was in there, she was not clothed, and she was deceased. So, what we thought is maybe she got stuck underneath there, she couldn't lift it up to get out, and she died of like hypothermia because it was in the wintertime and it gets pretty cold. And if you don't have your heat running, I mean it could be very cold. So, again, totally strange. Like, why would you hide underneath your bed like that? I mean, I could see maybe if you thought somebody was breaking into your home and you wanted to hide from the person, but why wouldn't you take your phone in with you so you could call 911? So those are the kind of things that are going through my mind at the time. But you know, she didn't have any clothes on, and based off the information they had gathered that they were doing some kind of fun, like partner swapping game where you played like this hide and seek from each other. And yeah, she crawled in there and she died. So I don't know for sure if it was hypothermia, but that was kind of the guess when the medical death investigator came out and did his examination, is that she, you know, probably, you know, died of hypothermia or some other medical condition because she wouldn't have been able to get any medication when she's underneath that bed and stuck. So yeah, so she died. So that was another situation that if you would have told me that she climbed up underneath there and died from hypothermia or you know, a medical condition, I wouldn't have believed that either. And it wasn't even like she was lifting it up because she was getting items out from underneath the bed because there was nothing else up underneath that bed but her. So it wasn't like it fell down on her and she had sustained trauma that knocked her out and then it closed all the way. It wasn't there was nothing present that indicated that either. So yeah, she probably, from what I understand, died of either a medical condition and not having her prescription medication, or she died from hypothermia. So that was another situation that again reminded me don't just assume that there's something suspicious going on when you have a situation that is, you know, out of the ordinary. I mean, any like I said, anything's possible. So that was another situation I had that again, you know, taught me to, you know, go in with open eyes, an open mind, and really just try to not make an opinion or a judgment on what was the cause of death or how the incident occurred necessarily, but just look at the facts of the case that you know or what you've been briefed on, and then just the condition of the scene itself. What is it telling you? So yeah, those were some pretty funny. I mean, they the the fact that they died was not funny, but they're just very unusual situations that I would typically say, you can't make this stuff up. That's what we would say. Like, you literally cannot make this stuff up because there was something new happening every single day. And I just sometimes it was hard to wrap your mind around it. You're like, really? Like, no way, this is not happening right now. This did not happen this way, but it did in her case as well. So that was kind of a couple of the stories I was going to share with you. Again, officers went out, did their due diligence, didn't realize that the bed lifted up until somebody told the officer, oh, did you check under the bed? And then when you look under the bed, it looks like it's all just a frame, and you can't look under the bed. So I'm sure that's what happened originally, is that that's what the officer did when they were searching the residence. So yeah. Those scenes I won't forget because they were very atypical. So again, just some reflection on that case is just don't assume. Again, I thought for sure they were suspicious. I thought for sure that they were probably homicide related, and neither one of them turned out to be that way. It was just an unusual circumstances that led to their death. So you can never be too careful, people. Make sure, just make sure that you don't get stuck under the bed. And if you're working a missing person scene, you know, make sure you're checking all areas, even areas you think somebody couldn't fit into, because I had no idea that she could have fit it, fit into that trash can. I don't recall knowing her size, her height, and her weight. That probably would have been good information. But at the time I didn't know that it would be necessary or be relevant. So could it have been something that I asked? Yeah. But at the time, I just didn't think that was important to the case. But it turned out that it was important because let's say she's, you know, 5, 10, 6, 1 woman and she weighs, you know, 200 pounds. The chance that she's going to be able to fit in that trash can is unlikely. Not improbable, but it's unlikely that she would have been found in there. She probably would have been very uncomfortable in there in that short time until you know she would have committed suicide. But the fact that she was shorter, that she was relatively small woman definitely helped contribute to the fact that she could fit in there and get in there easily and was able to maneuver enough when she was inside to discharge a firearm. So yeah, just want to make sure you're not making assumptions that you're reading the evidence, you're reading the room, you're getting all the relevant information from your detective or your, you know, investigator or your patrol officer. So, anyway, if you liked this episode, I know it was a little bit shorter than some of our other episodes. Sometimes that's good, you know, quick and easy. If you like this episode, I would love it if you would really just continue to support us, and just you can do that by leaving a review or a quick rating. It helps more people find us and helps us continue to grow our community, and also helps me bring you know information crime scenes straight from me. Being there at the scene, working these scenes and giving you my personal experience. Make sure for you to hit follow so you don't miss an episode. And until then, stay curious, and I'll see you behind the yellow tape.