Kevin Duffy – Scotland Partnership Manager at the Money and Pensions Service (#29)

Episode 29 of the Money Made Human podcast features Kevin Duffy, Scotland Partnership Manager at the Money and Pensions Service (MaPS).

From starting your pension early to spotting the warning signs of a scam, Kevin shares practical guidance to help people feel more confident about their money and plan for the future.

Host Gayle Lloyd chats with Kevin about his career journey, the support available to those who need it, and how working together can make financial guidance more accessible. They also discuss why it’s time to break the taboo and get more comfortable talking about money.

Key topics include:

• Kevin’s career journey and role at MaPS
• Why financial education matters
• Pension guidance for young people starting their careers
• How to spot and avoid pension scams
• The power of partnerships
• Breaking the taboo around money conversations

We hope you enjoy listening!

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to the Money Made Human podcast. It's celebrated at its heart the work of credit units and their fighting role and enriching our lives and communities. Each episode features insightful discussions, revealing the meaningful impact that can be made through economic collaboration. Mostly it's a collection of compassionate conversations about navigating life and the individual journeys we take away and welcome to Money Made Human, a podcast by First Class Credit Union. We are delighted today to be joined by Kevin Duffy from the Money and Pension Service. Kevin, welcome! We're so pleased to have you. And we've been working with you guys for some time now, so can't wait to tell our members a bit about what the Money and Pension Service do. And obviously it's a really critical time for people because money's been tough. You know, we're seeing our budgets being stretched, our pay's not lasting as long as it has been, prices are going up. So money really it really matters to to everyone. So really keen to speak to you about that. But I thought I would ask a bit about you first of all, and your journey to working with the Money and Pension uh service. What tell me a bit about that? What how did that come about?

SPEAKER_00 1:41

Yeah, lovely. Well, first of all, thanks a lot for having me, Gail. It's lovely to be here. Um, so yeah, my journey is from a banking background. So I worked for the Royal Bank of Scotland for 15 years in a variety of roles, um, which was an absolutely fantastic experience for me. And then after being in banking for 15 years, I moved over to banking education at the Chartered Banker Institute. So I worked uh with a portfolio of banks between Edinburgh and London mainly. Uh, and then six years ago um I moved over from banking education to my current role at the Money and Pension Service. So uh I'm now Scotland partnership manager at the Money and Pension Service, and I can maybe tell you a little bit more about what that's all about and what we do.

SPEAKER_01 2:31

Oh no, Lisa, I'd love to hear that. Just so our members are clear, the Money and Pension Service is that affiliated with government? Is it a subsidiary? What how does it work?

SPEAKER_00 2:43

Yep, so the Money and Pension Service is an arm's length government body, so we are sponsored by the DWP, uh, we work across the four nations of the UK. So our work is centred and focused around financial well-being, so supporting improving financial well-being. And when we talk about financial well-being now, that's probably a bit of an umbrella term because when we talk about financial well-being, we're also talking about financial inclusion, financial resilience, uh, financial education, which obviously credit unions do some amazing work in as well. And as Scotland Partnership Manager, I work with a wide range of organisations to look at how we can work together to improve outcomes for people. So, what guidance and resources and programs do we have at maps that can help people, and how do we work together on projects and programmes that can help people? And then probably for the benefit of your members, the Money and Pension Service is like your corporate brand, if you like, and we have a consumer service called Money Helper. So, Money Helper is where we deliver all of our free money and pensions guidance from. So I can speak a wee bit more about that today. Um, but that's available to everyone across the UK as well.

SPEAKER_01 4:02

And we've actually added that onto all of our signatures because it's such an important pathway for our members. I just wondered, Kevin, just going back to your banking career, um bankings had bad press probably to do with the you know, especially the 2008 economic crash, and some of the banks were bailed out and so on. But good people come from the banking sector too. We're a credit union and our mission is to make money human, and that's to pull together great people from all different organisations. In terms of your banking career and moving into this, what what strengths and values would you have brought forward from that? What you know, what was the key learning you brought from that that could help our people?

SPEAKER_00 4:51

Yeah. I think um I'm really lucky because banking has had a lot of bad press, and rightly so over the years, given some of the sins of the past. But I'm really lucky that I worked with some amazing people who really understood the professionalism and the ethics of banking. Um, and again, there's there's parallels between banking and credit unions. So when I started my journey at Royal Bank, I was very much into helping people meet their aspirations. So whether it was savings, loans, you know, buying their first property. Um, so again, you know, there's there's clear parallels between that and what goes on in the credit union movement. Um and that that was really drummed into me. And then I worked at Royal Bank at a time where if you were willing to get your head down, you know, go through your accreditation or assessments or exams or whatever it might be, you had that opportunity to move on and do other things. So um moving into the banking education side of things, um you start to learn more about the importance of financial education, you start to learn more about uh being able to help those most in need, and I suppose having those morals and values around that type of thing led me to then uh go for the the role at the money and pension service.

SPEAKER_01 6:16

Does it also help to have been given great morals and values as you're growing up to 100% because you told you told us just before we went live that your mum is from our local area where we're based, yeah, and I just wondered what from your family it's a really important part of Money Made Human and how we're all built. Yeah, I just wondered if there was if there were values and morals that came from that direction as well.

SPEAKER_00 6:43

Yeah, absolutely. Um so I'm from a really loving and stable family background. Of uh I'm the oldest of three, I've got a younger brother and a younger sister, but um no, we were given real strong principles as we grew up, you know. And I mean it sounds fairly straightforward now when you say it, but we were brought up to um, you know, work as hard as you can, take the opportunity opportunities that are presented to you, um, you know, be mindful of people that are less fortunate, be kind and give something back where you can. Um, and it sounds simple when you see it, but I think in this mad modern world that we live in, we probably do need to lean back into those those values at times, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_01 7:26

For sure. We we're seeing the real power in treating people well and being kind and being thoughtful, and it's funny, all of our guests have relayed that a lot of that back to their their parents and their family and their upbringing. So it's really I'm really pleased you said that. So tell me a bit more then about the money and pension service. First of all, just how can that help our members? What what would they get out of that?

SPEAKER_00 7:55

So the the benefit your members have got uh with money helper is that I I know obviously I'll probably talk a little bit today about my work in Scotland because I'm based in Scotland and I'm the Scotland Partnership Manager, but I know that you've got members throughout the UK, so money helper is available to everyone across the four nations, and the benefit with that is um it's completely free, it's impartial, um, and we really give people that practical approach to their money management. So it doesn't matter what your inquiry might relate to, it doesn't matter what your financial situation might be, any money or pensions-related inquiry, we're here to help and give people a practical approach to it. Um so we cover um every area of money and pensions management, really. Um we don't provide any regulated financial advice, so um we're here to provide clear guidance and information, and then if someone needed further uh regulated financial advice, they can then go ahead and maybe do that with a bit more confidence. So um we're really here to help with any sort of issue that people might have, and we're available on a variety of delivery channels so uh people can pick up the phone and speak to the teams. Um, we've got web chat, we've got a WhatsApp phone number, um, we're uh quite prominent in social media as well. So depending on how you consume your content or how you like to engage with this type of thing, um, there probably is a delivery channel that suits, and we also offer printed guidance for people as well, if they'd rather have a leaflet and something to refer to.

SPEAKER_01 9:35

And if if you're not able to help that member with their inquiry, would you offer a pathway to a different organisation or point them in the right direction for that?

SPEAKER_00 9:47

Yeah, so there's um strategic partners who we work with in Scotland and beyond. So, for example, if someone needed more bespoke specialised debt advice, we can refer to partners that we work with in that space. So, absolutely. So we will try to help people within the constraints of our service, but if we can or if they need more specialised support, we can sign post on to those partners.

SPEAKER_01 10:10

And can we touch on the point around pension? Because that's in the in the title. Pensions are becoming so important um given that we're going to be working longer and the state pension is is obviously um being paid later on in life than we may have first expected. I know you can't give advice, but in terms of guidance, first of all, our first question I would have is a lot of our members might have little pockets of pensions all over the place. Is there guidance for what to do with that and how to trace those and and so on?

SPEAKER_00 10:56

It's almost as if I've set you up to ask me that question. Um, we haven't though. That's a really good question, and it's good to see that you're you're thinking in that space scale. So, so at the moment, um it's it's really important. We're finding now, and again, the current climate that we we live in and we work in, people tend to move jobs more regularly. So maybe back in the day uh when someone was in a career that they were settled in, you know, you tended to stay there and and that was it. Um so now uh with auto-enrollment, um, people tend to have more pensions building up over their working lives. So at present, as it stands, uh there's a government team called the Pensions Tracing Service. Uh, and again, for any of your members who are interested in this, um you can get access to the the pensions tracing service information through the Money Helper website. Okay. So you can get their details on there. Um, but quite excitingly, um, we are working on a project called the Pensions Dashboard program at Money Helper, and that's going to be a bit of a game changer. So through the Money Helper website, in the coming years, um, you will be able to input your personal information relating to who you are and where you've worked, and the pensions dashboard will give you a snapshot of the pensions that you've paid into over the years, so it'll give you strong visuals around what your pension provisions look like. Um, and obviously that's massive when it comes to thinking about how you live successfully in later life.

SPEAKER_01 12:31

How you plan for retirement and so on. And would that allow people then to see where their pensions are at and valued at and and so on?

SPEAKER_00 12:41

All of that, so um, get an idea of your value and what you might be able to take and when you might be able to access it, and then coming into the pensions guidance that we provide, that's when people can pick up the phone and speak to our teams. So we have a general pensions helpline that's available to to answer any pensions-related inquiry. But within the money helper service, uh, we've also retained pension wise. Um, so that's a service that's available to anyone who's aged 50 or over and has a defined contribution pension scheme. Um, so if you're aged 50 or over, the idea with pension wise is that as we move into our 50s and we're maybe getting towards the later stages of our careers, we should be thinking about what do I have in place in terms of pensions, what do I have to do to retire as successfully as possible. So that's a more focused discussion with our pensions team around what the landscape and what your considerations might look like.

SPEAKER_01 13:40

And what's the kind of time scale to have in that dashboard, Bill?

SPEAKER_00 13:44

I think so we're in the testing phase at the moment. So as we sit today, we're we're moving through these phases of testing and we're gradually getting partners and individuals involved to help with that. And then I think as we track into next year, so 2027, that's where we're looking for some of this to go live. So um I don't think I can make any solid promises on the podcast, but it's great to see that this is being developed.

SPEAKER_01 14:10

That sounds like it could be transformational for everyone in terms of forward planning. In the interim, if people want to try and trace a pension, you did say that it there is a service in place just now they can use.

SPEAKER_00 14:32

That's the the government team that can help at the moment.

SPEAKER_01 14:35

And I have a couple of other questions on pension. One is for younger members that are maybe starting work, they're maybe being offered the chance to auto-enroll with their place of work. Is is the guidance, is the general guidance that's a that's a positive thing to do?

SPEAKER_00 14:54

Yeah, absolutely, because um I I don't know, some of your members will be um very familiar with Martin Lewis and um some of the information and the great guidance and content he puts out there, but we're regular um attendees on the Martin Lewis uh money show, and pensions are such a powerful vehicle, and um one of the messages I would get across to you know your younger employees and uh younger members today is that the earlier you start thinking about later life, the better off you'll be. And it sounds like a bit of a cliche, but it's true because um the earlier that you pay into these savings vehicles and these investment vehicles, the longer you're getting them to work for you, you know. So the more opportunity your pot's got to grow by the time you come to access it. And as you touched on earlier, um, you know, we're all working a bit longer now. Touchwood, uh, we're all living a bit longer, we're living in an aging population. But I think some of the conversations I have on quite a regular basis is that when we think about living in later life, um, my wife and I we're both lucky, we've both still got both our parents, but you don't just have to think about your own situation in later life, you may have to think about the care of your family as well, and there can be costs cost implications with that. So it's so important. Um, and if you're in employment where your employer is, you know, has the opportunity to auto-enroll you uh and at a pension scheme, you should absolutely take advantage of the power of it.

SPEAKER_01 16:31

Is there somewhere for our younger members, those starting out work, can go for advice on auto-enrolment? Would you is there a platform they can go in touch base with?

SPEAKER_00 16:42

So again, money helper is perfect for that. So um there's loads of useful articles on the the Money Helper website, pensions basics, understanding state pension, understanding a workplace pension, auto enrolment. So we break all of that down. And what Money Helper is designed to do is remove a lot of the complexity and the jargon that exists around this type of thing because um if we don't understand something, we can get turned off pretty quickly and maybe put it to one side. So we're we're here to try and break some of that down, um, and then obviously, um, anyone can pick up the phone to the pensions team and have a chat about anything that they might not be too sure about.

SPEAKER_01 17:23

No, that sounds great. I have a couple more questions on the other side. So, away from new starters, for those that have potentially built up a decent pension pot or maybe lucky to have one of the older final salary pensions, they should be mindful of potential scammers that ask them to remove themselves from that. Yeah, and whilst that might give instant money, that could be to their detriment. Yeah. And I just wondered if you if you could touch on that.

SPEAKER_00 17:58

So, yeah, uh unfortunately, scammers are becoming more advanced in their practices, and you know, there's there's a lot of things going on out there that we we're trying to help educate people against.

SPEAKER_01 18:09

So the general rule with this type of thing is that it's illegal for someone to cold call you about pensions related to investment opportunities or that type of thing.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

So um that should be a red flag right away. Um, if something sounds too good to be true, it usually is. Um, when you receive these types of approaches, there's usually a short time frame involved, so you've got to access your money or get your money over here, or you're going to miss out on thousands and thousands of pounds. So, again, that should be another red flag. But it's really people it's really important that people stop and count to 10 and take trusted guidance before they take any action that could be irreversible, and again, that's what we're here to do. Um, so if someone feels that they've been approached by a scammer, we can speak to my pensions colleagues. Um, hopefully not. But if someone falls foul of a scam, we can also offer some guidance and how you should go about maybe trying to get a bit of recourse there as well. So, um, yeah, for for anyone listening, do not take action until you've taken trusted guidance, and and that's what we're here to help with.

SPEAKER_01 19:23

That's great advice. So take time out, pause before you do anything.

SPEAKER_00 19:27

And and scammers tend to lean on uh the fact that there's this limited time to make the you know this massive amount of money, which makes people think they have to do something immediately or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 19:42

But that could be a red flag in itself, absolutely, yeah. And then for our older members approaching retirement, thinking about positively all the nice things they might do and maximising their earnings, what can they do? So they they the the dashboard sounds brilliant, but they might not have that in place. What can they do before they they finally retire to look at all their options? Is there a is there a pathway on a positive note for them?

SPEAKER_00 20:15

Yeah, I mean we we've got really useful tools within Money Helper. So for anyone who has online access, um we've got a really useful tool called the Money Midlife MOT. Um so that's designed for people aged between 45 and 65. So as of last month, I'm eligible for Money Midlife. I'm in that box, yeah. So that's quite exciting and equally depressing. Um, but yeah, so that that's a really intuitive tool that allows people to input information relating to the their situation, you know, where you are at the moment, what you intend to do in retirement, and then the money midlife MOT will give you a personalised action plan. So it'll break down some of the things you're doing and considering at the moment, um, things that you should think about as you move forward. It'll signpost to other areas of our services and really get you thinking about what you want to do, and then link to that, I as I touched on earlier, you've got the the general helpline and pension-wise as well, who can have these more focused discussions if you need them.

SPEAKER_01 21:15

Is there an opportunity in that for people to kind of say how much money they think they would need or or their hopes, you know, if they want to have a holiday every year or renew their car every five years, can they is there a matrix to put that in and and then it comes out at the other end of how much pension they need?

SPEAKER_00 21:35

Yes, we've actually we've got a a general pensions calculator that helps with that. So, and there's um toggles and things like that. So, based on what you might want to do or how much money you would like to have, you can play around with that. But again, this is all designed to get you thinking about um what you might have to do.

SPEAKER_01 21:54

And how what would that cost our members to access?

SPEAKER_00 21:59

Absolutely nothing. We are a completely free and impartial service, so um there is no sales pitch or commercial element with any of this. We are open and available to everyone.

SPEAKER_01 22:10

And it gives our members the opportunity to, like you say, play around with that and then maybe take further advice down the line, depending on and the outcomes they get from the calculators.

SPEAKER_00 22:21

Yeah, and what I should probably say as well, like um, you know, Money Helper isn't the solution that solves everything for everyone. There'll be elements of our services that help people, but when it comes to maybe as you as you're ready to access a pension pot or retire, you'll have to engage with the scheme itself. So, for example, if you pay into our pension with a Viva, you'll probably have to speak to them or go through your online statement, etc., to see exactly what the breakdown is. But as I said, we can help complement a lot of the the work that goes on with that so that people understand what they they might have to do. We can help people say this is what you could do, whereas a regulated financial advisor would be able to say, Well, this is what you should do and give you a recommendation.

SPEAKER_01 23:07

And just to be super clear, we have members in in Scotland, in England, Wales, Northern Ireland, wherever they are, they can get on and use Money Helper.

SPEAKER_00 23:18

Absolutely, right across the four nations. So there's a Wales Partnership Manager, there's a Northern Ireland partnership manager who do the same work as I do in Scotland, and then we've got a team of partnership managers in England as well. So we are all on the ground working with partners to try and make sure that people have got access to these services so it's available to everyone.

SPEAKER_01 23:39

I love that. What's your hopes for the future, Kevin, in terms of maps? What um what are you hoping you can still bring to our population? Is is there any uh you've mentioned the pension dashboard which would be transformational, but is there any other big ticket items you're hopeful about?

SPEAKER_00 23:59

Yeah, so in January 2020, we launched our UK strategy to improve financial well-being. So we set out an ambitious plan uh just before we moved into the lockdown and COVID, where we wanted to improve financial well-being uh over a number of measures. Um, and then obviously everything that's happened since January 2020 has exacerbated a lot of that. Um, so we're now more than halfway through the strategy. We have a delivery plan for Scotland, um at which and we have shared objectives with various partners, including the Scottish Government. Um, so we're now more than halfway through the strategy, and we're now doing as we move into the summer or come out the summer, we're doing a bit of a review and a refresh of where have we got to, what have we achieved since we set out this strategy, and what do we want to do moving forward. So I think my hope and ambition would be that we continue to have this purpose and drive and work with brilliant partners like yourselves to make a difference where we can. Um, I think in Scotland um we're we're really brilliant at partnerships. You know, I think Scotland is a great example of the power of partnerships, so um, it would be more meaningful collaborations where we can potentially make a difference.

SPEAKER_01 25:15

And in terms of just talking about making a difference, one thing I do want to cover is we may have people listening that are going through severe financial difficulty, that are worried, that may actually be having thoughts of suicide and harm because they can see no way out. Certainly, our message as a credit union is to reach out and talk to us and talk to our partners. Would that be the same for you guys?

SPEAKER_00 25:44

Absolutely. Um and we have a we have a national campaign uh called Talk Money Week, which some of your members might be familiar with. So every November, usually the first week in November, um we encourage our partners across every sector and individuals in all settings to break down the stigma that exists around talking about money because in Scotland and across the rest of the UK, we're still not great when it comes to talking about money.

SPEAKER_01 26:12

So we carry shame for for some reason.

SPEAKER_00 26:15

Absolutely. Um so there's a lot of work still to be done around making people realise that it's it's healthy to have these conversations, and we've got some really powerful research around that. We find that uh people who talk about money tend to feel less stressed and anxious. Um, we find that if they have children, they tend to pass on better money habits to their children at a younger age, and children's money habits are formed really early now as well.

SPEAKER_01 26:45

And one one other question I wanted to ask you, Kevin. We work passionately with the illegal money lending units across the country, and we know there'll be people out there that have borrowed potentially from a loan shark, and they'll be desperately worried because the consequences for them can be very difficult. They can be under threats of violence and and you know horrendous behaviour. What if someone comes to you to say that? Would you pass them on as well? How would you deal with that?

SPEAKER_00 27:17

Yeah, so again, it it's a really important issue to to raise and make your members aware that there's there's organisations out there that can help. So unfortunately, illegal money lending has been on the rise in Scotland and across the the rest of the UK, and there's some fantastic work going on um by the illegal money lending unit in Scotland to make people aware of how they can support. So, yeah, I think it's um through Money Helper we can highlight the types of support that's available. Um, but at MAPS, um, we also have a Money Guiders programme which I know first class uh have utilised previously, and within our Money Guiders programme, we have a community network in Scotland, and essentially the the community network puts on a variety of um online and face-to-face events for practitioners and members of that community, so that's really powerful as well for allowing us to highlight these types of issues that go on and why it's so important for people to speak up and speak out uh and understand the the support that exists and how to go about utilising that. So, yeah, we're very much um trying to work with partners to make sure that people understand where they can go, um and it probably comes back to that power of partnerships as well. It's by us working with uh working together, you know, we'll we'll continue to make build that movement and raise that awareness around what people should be doing.

SPEAKER_01 28:47

I can't help but think, Kevin, that the Money and Pension Service really is an advantageous program for all people to know about, depending on whatever pathway you're at in life. It's a useful tool to to know about and to utilize. And we wish you every success with it in the future. Before you go, we have some final questions and answers, which we call our quick round, which our team have come up with. So I haven't seen these. Right. Um, so let's see. Let's see how you're gonna do it. A grilling, uh-huh. Yes. Okay, this is a good question, which we kind of touched on earlier. What are three simple things that our listeners can do today to improve their pension situation?

SPEAKER_00 29:37

So I think take steps to understand what a pension is and what it means. So maybe have a look at the Money Helper pensions and retirement pages to have a look at the articles and the information that can support around understanding pensions. Um, if you haven't had an annual statement from any pension that you pay into, maybe double check um with your provider where you stand, request a statement and get an update on that. Um and then if you have online access, maybe try some of those tools and calculators we touched on because the idea with the tools and calculators is to get you thinking about where you are at the moment and what you might want to do moving forward. So I think as you play around with those type of things, it helps bring it to life a bit.

SPEAKER_01 30:30

We've got a second pension question. What's one pension myth you'd love to bust once and for all?

SPEAKER_00 30:40

Um I don't know if it's a myth. So there's a lot of fear around pensions because they can be complex and they are complex and um in some cases, but I think the the myth I would want to bust is that people don't have to be scared to engage with them. There's a lot of brilliant support that exists, as I said earlier, to remove this complexity and jargon that that surrounds pensions and and such like. So um I would like to think that on the back of today's episode, for anyone who this is of interest to, if people engage with Money Helper or pick up the phone to our pensions team, they're absolutely phenomenal at breaking down what it means in simple terms for people. So I would like to remove the fear and complexity that exists around some of these conversations.

SPEAKER_01 31:34

Perfect. One final financial question we've got, and it's what's one piece of financial guidance you wish everyone knew? Is it I I I can't help but think today it's for everyone to know about your service. You know, I think that's a really good action from this podcast. But is there anything else you would suggest in terms of financial guidance?

SPEAKER_00 31:59

Yeah, I mean I would love for everyone to know about Money Helper because it's free and impartial and available to everyone. So um hopefully we've we've helped with some of that today. Sure. I think in terms of guidance, um I would like more like financial education is a big part of what we do as well. I would like more younger people to understand the importance of building that savings resilience and savings buffer, which again credit unions do amazing work in. Um, so you know, regularly when we have workshops and presentations around, you know, what advice or guidance would you give your younger self? Everyone always says, I wish I just saved a wee bit more. You know, I wish I put aside an extra 25 quid or 50 quid here and there. So um I think that as we move forward and the way things are now, it is so important for people to have that buffer they can fall back on if they if they need it.

SPEAKER_01 32:57

And I guess also it's getting into the habit of saving little and saving often.

SPEAKER_00 33:03

Building that behaviour, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:04

Yes, changing the behaviour. In terms of credit unions, what what value can we bring to the the to our population but to the wider societal benefit? What what would you say about that and the impact credit unions can make?

SPEAKER_00 33:21

I think credit unions can make a phenomenal impact. I mean, we've all I I've been champion, a champion of credit unions for a very long time. Um but I think the high street's a different place now as well, isn't it? There aren't as many bank branches, it's more hubs and post offices and things like that. So I think it's important that people understand you're very much a service that exists to help with these aspirations. And again, I've probably said it a couple of times now, but it's about the power of partnerships. So you can help us amplify what Money Helper does to your members, but likewise you can also make your members aware that if they have these questions around money or pensions or whatever it may be, services like yours exist to support with that to help.

SPEAKER_01 34:08

So we to end, we've got two life questions. Normally everyone struggles with these.

SPEAKER_00 34:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 34:15

So this it's a really good question, though. We've been asking everyone this actually, we're because we're interested in it. What are you reading, watching, or listening to right now?

SPEAKER_00 34:26

Um, so my two favourite books that I've read recently, um, and I would recommend to everyone. So uh Demon Copperhead by Barbara Kinsolver, I think is how you pronounce her name. Um absolutely loved that. And I read a book called All the Colours of the Dark by Chris Whittaker.

SPEAKER_01 34:48

Um so And what are the what kind of genre are they?

SPEAKER_00 34:51

So um Demon Copperhead is the author's modern take on David Copperfield, um but it's about the opioid crisis in the US.

SPEAKER_01 35:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 35:03

It's absolutely fantastic. The way she she writes it is is phenomenal, and then All the Colours of the Dark is um quite an expansive story about uh a kidnapping and uh race to save the person, and it's about love and family and betrayal, and um so if that's your bag, I would absolutely recommend that one as well.

SPEAKER_01 35:28

You would recommend it. Cool, love those, and then a brilliant question to end with if you could speak to your younger self, what would you say knowing what you know now?

SPEAKER_00 35:42

Um probably worry a little bit less, don't sweat the small stuff. Um it's a marathon, not a sprint. All I know those all sound like cliches, but I think um in your younger days you're really keen to go on and in a bit of a rush, um, and life is a journey, so it's not always about the the destination, it's about enjoying the the ride on the way. So um, you know, I think John Lennon said it'll be alright in the end, and if it's not alright, it's not the end. So that's the type of vibe I would go with.

SPEAKER_01 36:19

I love that to end with. Kevin, it's been such a pleasure and so useful to speak to you. I can't help but think that's that's so useful for our members. Thank you for being here. Everyone, Kevin Duffy from the Munchant Money and Pension Service. Thank you. Thanks for listening to the Money Made Human podcast. We're grateful to spend time with you and hope you enjoyed it. If you want to join a credit union, choose us. With love. Until the next time, first class credit union.