Welcome And Sponsor Shoutout

SPEAKER_00 0:00

That's us.

SPEAKER_01 0:09

Well, hello everyone, and welcome back to Still Standing with Wayne and Kim, the dog show podcast, brought to you by Canine Chronicle, celebrating over 50 years of excellence. And seriously, is there anybody that does it better? We just love those people and what they do for the sport and for us. Anyway, I'm Wayne Calvin. This over here is Kimberly Mary. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 0:30

Also a Tom Grady fan, the Grabies, the Grabies plural fan. Canine Chronicle's the best.

The Rankings Race Problem

SPEAKER_01 0:38

Absolutely. So we're we want to talk today about, you know, we we've talked about, you probably have heard me just 10 million times talk about too many dog shows. But today I want to back talk about too many dog shows that you have to go to. And this is about the race, right? This is about being number one. And you know how I feel about rankings. I showed my little dog three days. He's number four English source manual in the country, all breeds. And that three days is plenty. I'm done. I'm ranked. Woo! I'm done. It doesn't, yeah. I still like him the same. I know what he's like. I know where he's good and bad. I know that he's the most perfect dog in the world. I don't care about the ranking. But some people do, and that's cool. In fact, we need that in the sport for consistent participation, right? We need that. Here comes Mr. Champion now.

SPEAKER_00 1:25

Is he gonna say hi?

SPEAKER_01 1:27

Uh he might, even though I don't say to, he he likes to fetch. And if he wants to fetch, he means now and he'll bark until he fetches. So we'll say, hi, buddy. Hi, buddy. It's all wet.

SPEAKER_00 1:36

Hold him up so we can see him. Let everybody see him.

Life On The Road Costs And Burnout

SPEAKER_01 1:38

He's far away. If he gets near, I will. He's so funny. Anyway, so yeah, and it's true that people really like this. And I'm fine with that. And I love it. And quite frankly, you do get to see good dogs more than you would unless they weren't running for a race. But the way the races are set up now, and by races, I mean the top top dog, talk breeds, top whatever. And by the way, who was number one three years ago? No one remembers. Who was who won the spring at the garden four years ago? No one remembers. But they remember as good dogs. They remember really good dogs, more than records. But you know, we've got a great one right now. But in the Minister Schnauzer of John Constantine's, and it's a great dog. We've seen him a lot, and he's number one. I think he finished number one last year, which is only a couple weeks ago. And that's great. You know, he's not done this before. It's fun to do it, and it all worked out really well with a great dog. We'll remember that dog whether he was top dog or not, right? But the problem is the handlers all complain, the exhibitors complain, the judges complain. Everybody's got to go to too many shows. You can have a lot of shows, knock yourself out. If that's not gonna get fixed, it's not gonna get fixed. But maybe there's a way where we can do a side-by-side rankings, so you can still keep the ones you have and love. That's fine. But another set of rankings that only counts, those points and wins only count the top 100 shows. So instead of someone having to go to 300 shows a year, which you do now, 253. How good is this for the person and the dog and the owners and the hands, the assistants, and everybody else? They're eating junk food on the road, they're never home, they have to make appointments to get their oil changed in the middle of the whole havoc. It's just not healthy for anyone. And we've caused this by, you know, when when the rankings were there and there weren't that many shows, fine, you go to 150 shows. Now you've got 2,000 shows to pick from. And a lot of them are two, 300 talk shows. So more and more.

SPEAKER_00 3:43

Yeah.

The Top 100 Shows Idea

How To Pick The Top 100

SPEAKER_01 3:44

Yeah, more and more. And so what we're talking about is ways to come up with new systems for that. One of the ones that I've talked, and I didn't invent this, I don't think. You it's one of those things you'd like to think you were the first one, but I think other people have thought of it too. Uh, and that is only the top 100 dog shows count for the rankings. So it's not as easy as it sounds. One of the things it does is it allows people who are running for Top Dog to spend less money if they want to. So more people can compete because they're only competing at 100 shows. The handlers don't have to go to 300 shows to be ranked, they can go to 100 shows to be ranked. So those wins at both, again, keep your side by sides. People love that. But next to it, maybe in front of it, should be this top 100 shows count. Okay, how do you determine the top 100? Well, that's where the logistics get more interesting. You would by regions you would know, right, Kim? You gotta scroll around. So it wouldn't you couldn't just take the top 100 dog shows in the nation, although you could, and I would like that. But you have to come up with some regional stuff to include areas where now let's put it this way. So, what if you have you take this is a trailing three-year average. Because it could be a weather event, it could be COVID, it could be anything, right? Trailing three years gives you three years prior data of the number of dogs entered at that show. So, uh and that's entered at that show because you really can't take out the absentees and all that. That's the way it goes. So the top one are dogs, dog shows in size, number of entries. When you go to those shows, it counts. When you don't, it only counts for the other system. So this system could be the elite system. And again, people wouldn't have to go to three. How good is it for the dogs? If you were a dog, would you like to sit in the crate 300 times?

SPEAKER_00 5:47

Well, no, and also think about you know how lucky that we are collectively as a sport with all of our handlers, owner handlers, it doesn't matter. All of our people that own our show dogs, you know, driving. I mean, across state after state after state. And we've had some people perish, we've had some serious accidents, we've had, but you know, lucky, very lucky that we haven't had more with as many of us that are on the road, and that includes the judges. You know, you're you're flying, but you also a lot of judges drive. So we've we've got the whole fancy basically driving a lot of miles and through bad weather, through you know, dangerous conditions on the roads. So all of that matters as well.

Safety, Welfare, And Handler Wellbeing

SPEAKER_01 6:30

Yeah, it does. I think it's really important for the people and the dogs. Like you said though, Kim, our handlers and people are so good at taking care of their dogs the best way they can on the road. I mean, there's always a couple of outliers, but the majority of people really know how to take, and that's part of being a handler. It's not just being in the ring and looking good, it's about caring for these dogs, knowing about first aid, knowing about how to handle events on the road. And the good news is the people who haven't quite figured that out yet, if they're lucky, there's somebody set up next to them that has. I can't tell you how many times we stopped the bluebird to help somebody along the side of the road that broke down back when I was working for four sides. You you just do that, you just help each other. And if you see a dog show van with X pens on it, pulled over, and you're a dog show person, you're probably gonna pull over and say, Hey, can I give you a hint? But that doesn't mean that people have to put 300,000 miles on their vans every year if they don't want to. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 7:31

Yeah, yeah, no, exactly. I mean, you know, I I for this for the first time in 2025, I campaigned a dog, which I haven't done for a long time. And I have to say, I thoroughly enjoyed it. We had a great team, yes, it was wonderful. I I will always fondly remember it. Of course, it helped that we ended up number one, but uh it's work and it's strategy, so much strategy about where to go, double entering, looking at last year's entry. So there's so much involved in it, it really is stressful.

Forcing Best Dogs To Meet

SPEAKER_01 8:02

It really is, and I can see why when we were showing this P to be number one, Eddie came on board as an ace, B number one, yeah, not just Eddie. And Eddie came on board for a lot of reasons. Obviously, he's a tremendous asset and a real beagle lover, but he also is real good at spreadsheets and figuring out those logistics. If we go here, and this is the system you've got to play, and it's exhausting for everybody. And I think most everyone is like, man, I wish I didn't have to do this as much as I do. So having the top 100 shows allows us to give an option for people who don't want to drive that far that often, who don't think it's healthy for them or their dog to go to that many shows. We have a lot of handlers who are not real young, and I'll bet they'd love to go to 100 shows rather than 300. It's probably safer for everybody. And more important, those wins at that top 100 shows, they're wins. Yeah, the thing that it really I think that matters the most to me in the system is that the good dogs have no choice but to go compete against each other 100 times a year.

SPEAKER_00 9:14

They have no choice. Yeah, and that's when it's exciting for judges as well.

SPEAKER_01 9:18

Yeah, and exhibitors and spectators and everybody else. I mean, you know, when you get when you go to Mars and Essex, when you go to Orlando and Westminster, obviously, you're gonna see the best again. They hide from each other all year because of the rankings, right? Right. Well, they're probably going there. I could sneak, so I could steal one over there and drive over here and uh fly from Connecticut to Ethiopia and come back and go to Mexico and then back to yeah, it's like a true chance.

SPEAKER_00 9:46

It's true, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:47

We've all seen on Friday on the East Coast and went on Saturday on the West Coast. I mean, come on.

Regional Gaps And Venue Challenges

SPEAKER_00 9:53

Oh, yeah. I you know, I you know, Jimmy Moses did that with a couple of dogs in Sharon Newcomb. And let me tell you, they you know, take a bestness show on one end of the country one day, show up the next day, eight o'clock. You know, it's it's brutal, it really is.

SPEAKER_01 10:06

By the way, who better to take care of dogs than Jimmy and Sharon, right? I mean, they know everything about taking care of dogs. Absolutely, absolutely, and having the dogs' head screwed on straight before they start that journey, right? Yeah, exactly. This is the thing that it really would, there's so many layers of goodness here, right? The dogs going head to head, the best dogs competing, and the bigger 100. We right now have a giant show in Orlando, Westminster, Louisville, and where else? Although Louisville's half what it was, right? And Mars and Essex when it happens. So they're very in Palm Springs, but but after that, there's a pretty big fall off. And this would give those hundred shows maybe even more boost, right? So a$2,000 show that's now on the list could end up being a$3,000 show. And now we have 100 important dog shows instead of three or four that we all need to go to and want to go to. I think that would help a lot. The problem is regions, right? Right. What do you do about that? What do you do about? I mean, Nebraska probably doesn't have a 2,000 dog show. I don't know for sure, Nevada. I don't know what areas don't. Kansas, maybe, although they're big, beautiful shows.

SPEAKER_00 11:21

And you know, you get are you saying, well, predominantly the the West Coast, like like Colorado, they just don't have that many shows there per year, you know. I think you know, I I five or six come to the top of my head, but that's about it, maybe five.

State Caps And Regional Balance

SPEAKER_01 11:33

Right. So what you could do is come up with a system where each state, each state's highest number of shows, biggest end, so the biggest show in Nebraska counts, the biggest show in Kansas counts. So you have to augment that list a little bit and come up with a way to maybe make it 150, one for each state and 100 of the tops that get included. There's got to be a way because it's gonna end up being the Midwest and the East Coast for the biggest shows. That's where they are right now, and that's that way they've been for a long time.

SPEAKER_00 12:05

So as far as the number of but the last eight to ten years, excluding Orlando, uh, number one's logo, number two is Palm Springs, Wolfstock's number three in the country for a lot of years, and so those are two West Coast shows Palm Springs and Wolfstock that were right up there in the top five for a lot of years.

SPEAKER_01 12:28

But how far and how but how far away from each other are they?

SPEAKER_00 12:32

Well, you know, if you look at how California is on a map, long skinny, Palm Springs is about you know nine or ten hour drive from let's say the San Francisco Bay Area, not even from the top of California.

SPEAKER_01 12:43

So one's an ankle and one's an ear. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 12:48

Exactly. But you know, it's better than driving across Texas, which eight, 12 days, right?

SPEAKER_01 12:55

It's true, which is a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 12:56

Yeah, but I mean, so and you're also losing the venues on the West Coast. We have a serious problem with venues for dog shows, and it's getting worse. Like Palm Springs is struggling right now. They made the move from the pretty side, you know, over to the other side of the, you know, uh, where the it's a long walk to grooming, it's a long walk to the rings, it's a long walk for the motorhomes. We just lost the Baleo of Solano County Fairgrounds, which is you know decrepit and falling apart for Wolfstock and yeah, for Wolfstock, yeah. We we're at the Solano County Fairgrounds in Palayo, which is not a safe area to begin with. And we were the last show there, and we've now left there. So, you know, the venues, a lot of them just don't want dog shows. Yeah. So and the hotels, too. So well, yeah, I can't blame them because people end up restoring the rooms, right?

Magazines, Data, And Adoption

SPEAKER_01 13:49

Yeah. But and Wolfstock's been in the top three or four for a thousand years. So there are those shows that just they're gonna annually be a big show. You can make them bigger. And now that I think through the state thing, it could be 100 nationwide and then one from each state, or it could be you have to just spread the regions. But I wouldn't be surprised if we really did the numbers, now that I think of it, that it wouldn't all be Midwest and East Coast. That uh there's probably a bigger distribution of big shows than I'm thinking, because St. Louis is probably gonna draw some. There's big shows, there are big shows in Texas, there are big shows in in places that that aren't on either of those streams. But uh it could be done. Let's just say that. It could be done. And if it could be done, sure. So now you got another problem. You've got to have to get all the magazines to agree. Because the magazines run the rankings, it's that simple. Do they want to do the concurrent double lists? I can tell you that magazines pay a whole lot of money every year to the AKC for that data. A whole lot. You'd be surprised how much.

SPEAKER_00 14:59

Wow. I don't I don't think the majority of the people know that.

SPEAKER_01 15:02

Yeah, I don't either, but it's not like they just download it for free. That's for sure. There's commas involved. And so when they pay, when the magazines pay that money for that data, they can massage any way they want. And it's not that difficult these days to do a simple sort in a spreadsheet or however they download that data, to just say, okay, trailing three years, average entry for three years of this show is this number, and that makes the top hundred. So you'd have to have the magazines all, well, you don't have to have them all do it, but it'd be nice if a couple big ones do do it, right? And keep their because they want their individual thing. There's so I there's something about some of them count reserve best in shows, some of them don't. I I forget how that all works. Not that I care, but so they are a little unique. But maybe they could come together on this one and do the top 100. I think, boy, wouldn't it mean more if you were top dog by winning more at those at those top the big shows in the absolutely than running?

SPEAKER_00 16:03

But then you run into the problems with some of these clubs that are small and they're getting smaller and smaller, and they're down to 200 dogs, and which again goes back to the problem, you know, too many shows being approved, too close together, you know, which we think you know, talked about that a million times. But it's it's here, it's it's our reality now. So then what do you do with these clubs that you know they still have active members and they're working and they they're proud of their little show, or maybe they're in an area in Kansas where there's not that many shows and and the public doesn't get to see pure red dogs, right? So they do offer that service. So then how do you break it to them or say to them, you know, you got to get your numbers up, you know, well, maybe they can't. So that's a whole nother dilemma. I don't, you know, I think well, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:56

Not that I would not that this is the reason you do this, but the top 100 shows get really focused and bigger and bigger. Maybe some of the little shows maybe we'll have to find another league for them, you know, an open show or find someplace where they can still compete. And by the way, those, you know, you can you don't have to go to those 100. You can go to 300 if you want. But I think a lot of handlers would say, you know what? Done. There are handlers. In fact, some of my close friends that are, I think, the best handlers and best caretakers in the country among them, they won't run a dog for top dog anymore. They just won't. Oh, you want to be number one? Find somebody else because I'm not gonna do that.

SPEAKER_00 17:36

I'm not gonna bring myself out, my family out, my dog out. Yeah, exactly. I'm gonna do that.

SPEAKER_01 17:40

And this couple this couple in the middle of a four of a five-day circuit, they took the middle day off, went home, and the dogs run in the paddocks. You you know, because they can, not many can, but there are ways to make this better for everybody, and it doesn't look like the AKC is gonna do anything about too many shows. I mean, harping on this forever.

Owner Handlers And Opportunity

SPEAKER_00 18:01

To comment on your idea here, which I think is fabulous at 12100. Maybe this is the way to fix this very broken system. Too many shows, too close together. It's broken, you know, and but it's here. So maybe this is the way, just by attrition, that you know, it's gonna take care of itself.

Open Shows And Championship Paths

SPEAKER_01 18:23

It would. And I would hope that there'd be clubs battling at the bottom to get into that hundred slot, one 99 slot, and make their shows bigger and better. And yes, there'd be some attrition, I would think, but if there was one show, the biggest show in X State where there aren't a lot of shows or a lot of big shows, there's one show in that state that was important enough to make the list. Maybe that show would grow because handlers would say, Hey, you know what? It counts. It probably I won't have to run in everybody out there. Maybe I'll go to that show. So it could build those shows. There's so many benefits of this. I can't think of one single problem. I can't think of one liability among these assets, not a single one. Except that we'd have to like I said, no, the AKC is not gonna do anything about too many shows. We know that. They're not gonna take anybody's shows away. So this is one way, like you said, one way to help structure that. And unfortunately, it's gonna take the magazines, not the AKC, to make it right. But I think that's it's sad that it has to go that way, but I think the magazines are strong and can do this. I just hope they would all get on board and come up with at least a similar system, if not the same system to count the the top shows. Something with some regional efficacy so that there's importance in those areas as well. So it's spread around. I I really do think though, a friend of mine, we're talking about this, and he said, I think you'd be surprised how many of the top 100 shows are spread fairly evenly. And if not, not a bad way to correct it. But Yeah. I think it's it's easily accounted for. They already bought the data. Just boop, boop, sort like you do on a spreadsheet. Sort, boop. Very simple.

SPEAKER_00 20:09

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 20:10

Sum equals the 21, 22, 23, x divided by, and not that hard to do on a spreadsheet, even, but and programming would be even easier. So those are my thoughts on what do you what do you think other ways might be? Do you think this would help develop us into an open show championship level thing?

Incrementalism And Too Many Shows

SPEAKER_00 20:28

Oh, I think so. I think that'd be a very real possibility. I think that, you know, also you have the aspect of how many great clusters have you seen over the many years, you know, where it they're strong, they've got big entries. Uh, we have a cluster up here in the Pacific Northwest, where I am, that's been, you know, great for years with huge entries with the sporting dog club joining and a working dog club joining. And, you know, I it's I love it when you have the individual read clubs or group clubs joining because you get really, really good quality. So not only do you get quality throughout the show, but you get these, like if you if it's a working group show, you get wonderful working dogs, etc. And these clubs can't get along. And you know, Mary Jane's bitching about Susie and you know, we're in third grade, and uh, you know, how can you let these incredible circuits that have been going on for so long fall apart because you can't get along? Well, maybe with this 100 thing, it would give them a little bit of a nudge to, you know, let's make this work. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 21:36

The big one. And yeah, yeah. You boy, you'd want that star. If you're a club, you're gonna work your tail if you try to make that.

SPEAKER_00 21:44

And and maybe you'll find it's gonna hold the circuit together and say, okay, even though she irritates the hell out of me, you know, I'll put up with it for you know, a couple of months to uh get in this top 100. I think that'd be a really good goal. It would say would solve a lot of issues, maybe.

Judges’ Travel And Hidden Costs

SPEAKER_01 22:00

And maybe here's another possible benefit. Maybe the owner handlers, who are the to my in my in my mind, the key, the heart and soul of the sport, they'd get a better chance. If all the handlers went to the top 100, they might be just having a great time at a 1200 talk show that didn't make it without all the handlers being there. Maybe more of a chance for them to do some more winning in groups and things. I don't know, that's for sure. It could happen. It could it could absolutely could take that that stigma away and say, well, maybe I can go over here. So it wouldn't, they wouldn't become owner handler shows because anybody could go, but there there may be a slight uptick in interest because then I get hammered by the top 100 show, you know, not possible. So lots of benefits. What other ways can we? I mean, I can't think of any other way to fix this broken system of too many shows. We've tried everything. The only the other thing is if we go to the open show level, good luck of signing that and figuring that one out. What's it mean? Uh what is an open show?

SPEAKER_00 23:11

Well, you know, with you being a former owner of UKC, you've experienced, you know, different things besides just a regular dog show. So you would be qualified to make comments about what you've seen from that, whether whether they're open shows or you know, whatever, different categories. What success rate did UKC have with that?

SPEAKER_01 23:34

Well, the you know, the the bigger shows did great. And the smaller shows people loved because they could go over there and have their own people and you know, beat each other and win with each other, and and uh they were happy. And if you wanted to come to premiere one of the big shows, Gateway, then you knew you're gonna have to hike up your pants because they're all gonna be there. So a similar microcosm of what could happen, right? But it didn't mean those small clubs didn't thrive. They did, they were real good. There's some clubs that consistently put on a great show, just not in a region we're gonna draw 600 dogs, a thousand dogs, you know, like the mayor used to. So it's just a you know, it's a matter of sorting these things with common sense. And if if the AKC can't do it, bless their hearts, magazines are gonna have to.

Who Has The Nerve To Fix It?

SPEAKER_00 24:16

I'd hope they'd make it may come down to that, you know. It may, it may, because I can't see AKC is obviously approved and approved and approved, and and I think the 200-mile radius thing is crazy. Um and they're not gonna fix it, so someone's gonna have to fix it. It's kind of like you know, a microcosm of our world today, which is upside down, it's gotta be fixed. But you know, I mean, there's just so many possibilities that and no one's gonna be happy, no matter what the magazines do or AKC or whatever to try to fix things and straighten it out, no one's gonna be happy. Everyone's gonna complain. That's just human nature.

SPEAKER_01 24:59

There's a reason that we were able to grow the UKC by 600% in 15 years, we didn't have to make popular decisions.

SPEAKER_00 25:08

Amazing, amazing.

SPEAKER_01 25:09

We did not have to make popular decisions. We made unpopular decisions all the time. Instead of doing the the popular thing, we did the right thing, and people hated it. But guess what? Over time, it worked. You have to have the courage to do the right thing and not the popular thing. And when in a government like we have in the AKC with delegates and the whole structure of the board, it's real tough to make the right decision. And I understand it, I was there. It's tough to do the right thing when you want to keep your job, and you want to keep your job by pleasing the most people.

SPEAKER_00 25:40

And that's that's not their fault, it's just the system, it's the way you do it you could also throw politicians in with that.

SPEAKER_01 25:46

Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_00 25:47

Yeah, it's the same, you know, same thing. I mean, so so someone's gonna have to have the nerve to do the unpopular thing to fix it.

Building A Pyramid Of Importance

SPEAKER_01 25:56

Yeah, yeah. And you know, the other thing would be if we if by any chance the maybe the AKC could see this working and do something like it, I would love for the AKC to also do a system, but that's never gonna happen. And they shouldn't, I guess, because the magazines like doing that. But there's gotta be a way. With the open shows, if we did, if it did go to that, if top 100 shows really took over and there was some fall-off at the other shows, I don't know if there would be. There's still there are the top 100 shows, right? But if there would be, and we went to open shows, the only thing I can think of for the open show concept, and I'm sure there's plenty of people smarter than me that have more, is the dogs can get all the points they want. This is class dog, all the points they want. But they even if it's a thousand dogs entered in their breed, they can get five points, but it's not a major. Right? They would get five points, but it wouldn't be considered a major. They'd have to get one of those majors, or both, maybe, at one of the top 100 shows. Or at least maybe it's a bigger umbrella than maybe it's not a hundred shows for that. Maybe it's 500 shows that are open, 500 that are because now we have 2,000 shows. My God. So maybe if we just have half of that, the open shows and Afbe Championship shows, they can go to all the shows they want. And that probably could be more of an incentive because handlers might not be there just to finish dogs. Well, they may be. And maybe again the owner handler has another pocket. They should all be competing against each other. Don't get me wrong, I don't want any separation. I think the owner handlers get better because the pros, and the pros get better because the owner handlers, and the breeders feed the whole system. I think it all works just fine. But if they're looking for a little side sidebars way to get points or whatever, I don't know. There's got to be a way, but this top dog ranking thing when like I said, when there was only 700 shows in 1994, 700.

SPEAKER_00 28:04

And imagine we have over 2,000 now.

SPEAKER_01 28:06

So now when you're running for number one, it's been incremental. Incrementalism is an evil thing because we don't notice it, it's so subtle over time. Little bits and little bits.

Closing Thoughts And Safe Travels

SPEAKER_00 28:19

I don't like getting old.

SPEAKER_01 28:20

Yeah, tell me about it. I I we had dinner with some friends last night, and I announced we're getting up now and I will make noise, just so you know. There's gonna be oh, there's gonna be something as I stand up. We've been sitting here too long. But yeah, it it's incrementalism has driven this thing from we've double double the number of shows. Double them.

SPEAKER_00 28:43

That's crazy. And what year was it? What year were there? 7194?

SPEAKER_01 28:49

You can back early 90s.

SPEAKER_00 28:51

That's incredible. Think about that.

SPEAKER_01 28:53

It's only 30, 40 years, yeah. And and of course, for us, the 90s was last week, right? But most people listening weren't born in the 90s. Um exactly. Be that as it may, there's a history that some people maybe not absorb. So if they don't know that you used to be 200, 500, 700 shows, when you double the number of shows, which is now the current system, you've double the number of shows you have to go to to be number one. And more important, you have so many options that now you're probably instead of going to and instead of going to 150 shows, you need to go to 250 shows, 300 shows a year to be number one. And that's just crazy. That is absolutely insane. It's not good.

SPEAKER_00 29:39

Well, and and look at how many of us competing, and I'm gonna include myself in that, are older. I mean, how many times, you know, you you get a phone call from your buddy? Oh, they just hauled so-and-so out on a stretcher, you know, and it's probably somebody that's been really pushing hard and you know, trying for rankings. And then what about those people that, okay, um, I just want to get to first they've got, okay, let's say they've got 79 best-in shows, and everybody wants to be a member of the 100 club, you know, 100 best-in shows. So now I gotta, you know, keep showing my dog, keep begging the judges, oh, I just need one more best-in show, you know, and then they say that to every single judge, and then they get their 100 best-in shows. Okay, so now you're like, okay, good. As a judge, you're like, okay, go away. You've done your thing. Oh no, now we're coming back. We're bringing boozer back because boozer now has another record that he needs to break. Well, who does the dog or the handler or the breeder or whatever? You know, the dog's not asking for it. So now you got this dog in front of you again for another year, and it's expected to win the group because it, you know, is a top-winning dog. Wrong. No. And judges, I will tell you, get sick of it.

SPEAKER_01 30:58

It's like next, you know, next you start getting that red ribbon instead of that blue ribbon, and then you start to complain about that, you know. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:06

So exactly.

SPEAKER_01 31:07

There's it's just too much. It's just too much. And if we're gonna respect the dogs in the sport, we've got to bring it in. Gotta bring it in. And the only way you can do that is by coming up with something new. And I'm all about, and I as I said, I didn't invent the 100 concept. I'm just trying to talk through the tiers of it, just flesh it out more. But I've heard a couple people over the last few years come up with this too, about the 100 dog shows and top 100. And I think, you know, I don't know. For me, if I'm number one all breeds in the top 100, or number one all breeds for all shows in the world, including the 200 dog shows, the 130 dog shows, I think I'd rather have the most, the more elite one. If I'm spending a million dollars, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 31:51

Yeah. But you know, you know, and I love the concept. I do. And I think a key part of it is going to be that the decisions are not going to be easy and they're not going to be nice. You're going to have to go in there and clean it up. And and and there's a lot of people are going to be very, very unhappy. And you're going to have to have someone strong enough to go in there and kick ass and say, no, this is what the program is. And you either hit this number or you don't.

SPEAKER_01 32:19

Yeah. And you, and if you don't want to play in the top 100, you can play in the top 2,000. Exactly. Exactly. Think how stupid that is 2,000. No, but you still have that option. You can be number one in both if you really want to. Whatever turns on, you know. But I know some really good handlers that are just sick and tired. That's all they tell me.

SPEAKER_00 32:39

Is there is their um and the judges are tired. The judges are tired too.

SPEAKER_01 32:44

By the way, my buddy, my best buddy Ken Murray, God bless him. He this last two weekends in a row, he can't, you know, he did a four, came home for two days, did another four. He's had nothing but canceled flights. And anyone once in a while, I hear someone say, you know, judges should do it for the love of the sport. Oh, really? You try this.

SPEAKER_00 33:03

Yeah, you try this. Singing airports all day for two days of the whole thing, the most miserable part. And then, you know, the poor, you know, not only do I judge, but I also run a dog show. And then you get the judges that are stranded, you know, and and they're trying to get to you. You know, it's say a four-day cluster, five-day cluster, whatever. So you have one judge that's you know, across four or five days, and they can't get in, that you're scrambling. You're like, oh my God, do I have enough people on my panel to cover it? Who can I call that does these groups, you know? And so it's it people, I don't think exhibitors have any idea what judges go through on the travel end of it. And you know, most of the time, like I live in a small town, I have a 5 a.m. flight if I want to get anywhere to the other side of the country. And so you're up at two o'clock, and then you're at the airport, and then your flights cancel. And so it it it really is, and the older you get, the crankier you get, and the more tired you are in a site. Why am I doing this?

SPEAKER_01 34:01

You know, five days in a row, seven days in a row. And again, not complaining. We love what we do. Yes, we do. What we do for the love of the sport for free is travel. That's what you love for free.

SPEAKER_00 34:13

Absolutely, absolutely. That is a huge sacrifice, actually.

SPEAKER_01 34:17

And my$82, my from my Orlando$82, the dry cleaner is not covered by anybody, by the way. And that's every you put four suits on or four outfits on for four days and whatever else you're gonna wear, it's gonna cost you 75-80 bucks to get them clean for the next weekend. Yeah, so uh yeah, anyway, not complaining, back on track. I really think we something needs to be done. I've been saying this for years. If not, if it's not gonna happen, to do it for the AKC to do it, they would have to say, you're out, you're out, you're out. And clubs would be affected heavily, and they could complain and whine. I get that. But in this system, the magazines are doing it, and they can make the call because you still can do whatever you want. The AKC's not telling you. So, and then maybe the top 100 shows does eventually form more of a pyramid, and we have an open concept, open concept, house design, too many shows. Uh, an open forum for you know, opening up ideas for what to do about the open show or non-open show or whatever. So, I don't know. That's our thoughts. We stick, we're sticking to it, and we're still standing. I'm Wayne Kavanaugh.

SPEAKER_00 35:25

And I'm Kim Earn.

SPEAKER_01 35:27

Yes, you are, and we will see you soon. Thanks very much, all of you, and wishing you safe travels and a hundred shows.

SPEAKER_00 35:34

And no delays, no flights.

SPEAKER_01 35:36

That's right. Until next time. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 35:39

Thank you. Bye, Wayne.

SPEAKER_01 35:41

Bye, Kim.