Venice Pulse

The Illusion of Separation | A Conversation with Stefan Fabry

• Chuck and Sandy • Season 1 • Episode 23

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The Illusion of Separation | A Conversation with Stefan Fabry;
Venice Pulse, Episode 23

In this enlightening episode, special guest Stefan Fabry shares deep insights into the nature of consciousness, oneness, and how we can anchor a felt sense of global unity through body prayer, perception, and spiritual awareness. The conversation invites us to reconsider our motivations—fear versus source—and explore practical approaches for embodying unity in everyday life.

Key Topics:
The distinction between leading from source versus from fear and its implications.
Definitions and perceptions of global unity and collective awareness.
The role of the body in perceiving and expanding consciousness beyond the mind.
The significance of boundaries, discernment, and self-care in spiritual practice.
Practical body prayers and movements for anchoring unity and healing.
The influence of plant spirits and traditional plant medicines on awareness.
Theoretical perspectives: panpsychism and consciousness in all matter.
The importance of education and awareness to shift societal motivations.

To connect with Stefan and to learn more about his work please visit: www.stefanfabry.com 

Venice Pulse is a podcast focusing on Venice Beach and beyond. It is hosted by Venice residents Sandy Clark and Chuck Whobrey. Sandy has been on the cutting edge of both written and televised journalism for the last 30 years. Her credits include NHK, CBC, ABC, BBC, AMI (various publications), the Daily Mail and the Westside Current. 

Originally from the UK, Chuck was once on the BBC's Newsnight talking about "Ecstasy". He then spent many years locked in a studio producing music and meditation visualizations. 

Intro Music: "Trip" by DJ Nick "Feesch" Wilson 

You can also watch "Venice Pulse" on YouTube. 

#Consciousness #collectiveconsciousness #bodyprayer #energyhealing #mindbodyconnection

SPEAKER_01

Hello, everybody. Welcome to Venice Pulse this week. Um, I'm not sure where to begin to describe my guest today. He's he's a man of many talents, including um he's an energy healer, an energy reader, plant spirit guide. That's in there. Body prayer, body alignment. He's also quite um quite a tango dancer of note as well. Um, but more important than any of any of that, more important than any of that, he's actually a friend, a long-lost friend. Uh so welcome to Venice Pulse, Stefan Fabri.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you, Charles. How are you? I'm so happy to be here. Thank you. How you it's it's been a while, Stefan. It's been a while. It's been, yeah, several years since we connected last. And yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Do you know it's it's funny actually, the times. So Stefan and I have got kind of a history of um I don't know, we would just kind of have these sort of weekly meetings where we would sit and just discuss all this kind of metaphysical, spiritual, esoteric kind of uh meanderings. And uh and it's funny because looking back, I've I in some ways we should have recorded all those conversations. Back then, we're kind of ahead of our time in some ways. So it's really good to uh finally get get you here now. And what's really interesting actually is even though I'm looking at you, I mean, so it's kind of digital, it's your voice, it's hearing your voice, it's kind of resonating with me the most. But anyway, so I'm gonna get I'm gonna get straight to it. So Stefan sent me an email uh last week, beginning of this week. And this is what kind of perked my interest and basically led me to uh led to this conversation that we're having right now. Um and if you don't mind, Stefan, I'm just gonna read the email kind of back and we'll just go from there. So so you so you said what I'm working on now is helping people anchor a direct and felt knowing of global unity. Not just as an intellectual idea, but as something the body itself has been longing for, recognizes, and can draw on. Since what we are all creating right now could go in any direction, I keep thinking about this question are we leading from source or from fear? Well there's a lot to unpack there, Stefan. Yeah, there's a lot of it's just it's like pick a pick a few words or pick a sentence. Yes.

SPEAKER_00

So uh what do you think you should we should start?

SPEAKER_01

Well global unity? That's kind of a that's an interesting concept. I mean, what's your definition of global unity?

SPEAKER_00

Uh probably the opposite that what we're experiencing right now. Okay. To keep it to keep it in the simplest way, that's what I would say. The opposite would be that um that all people, uh I mean all of them, not only one, would know on a on a physical level, also intellectual level, also spiritual level, also emotional level, what it is like to be um a global body that has eight billion bodies instead of one body that has four limbs. It's uh an eight billion fold body that has eight billion sets of limbs, right? And and perceives through through these eight billion outlets. But in the end it is um it's an it's an it has its own awareness in the in i respect um regardless of what the individual experience is, it has its own global awareness, its own global intent, its own global drive, its own um yeah, um evolution.

SPEAKER_01

It's okay, is this something you think that people are seeking? Um or is it something almost more draconian than that? It's like I impose this on you, or is this do you do you think people are searching for this? Or maybe they're searching for it at an unconscious level? Is uh so what's what's the bigger picture?

SPEAKER_00

The bigger picture connects to the to the many um mostly Eastern teachings that have been very explicitly talking about when they say enlightenment, they say all is one. And nowadays, in the fabric of our everyday consciousness, we're all familiar already with this concept of all is one. It has landed in the West probably since the 60s and 50s, maybe even earlier, and exploded. And uh it kind of didn't go anywhere. It was just like here, and here we are, all is one, and everybody was electrified by that idea.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's almost like a slogan or a concept or something, isn't it? And you don't really go much deeper than that.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. Right, right. And taking it beyond that slogan, that's where where I come in with my work. Right. Because we can contemplate, you know, like the deeper thinkers, they have already contemplated on this what it means to be one with everything. Right. But then we open the door, walk out of our meditation room, and here is the first person who challenges us, and then we have a judgment of that person, and we forgot about all is one. Right? Are you familiar? Happens sometimes, right? Yeah, yeah. We're in a really good mood, and it's like, oh yeah, everything feels good, we're connected, and we think we're spiritually advanced, and then we open the door, and it's like the world comes right upon us, yeah. And as if to challenge what we just meditated upon. Right? And the deeper the challenge is, the deeper the meditation, the the stronger the challenge seems to be, as if to double check, did you really get it?

SPEAKER_01

So so the thing is here is this is I guess you're at the stage of educating people about this though, because I think some people it wouldn't even I don't know, you get your average what TikTok influencer or your average teenage high school kid or young adult or something. That this is things that these are concepts, or it's a concept that probably doesn't even really interest them. Right. But if you s if you said, okay, this is what we have to do, you know, we need to have this sort of global unity, they're gonna be what? Huh? Yes. You know, so so to me that it's education is the first step.

SPEAKER_00

I think education is is is a big aspect of it, yeah, definitely. And um there is more than education, there is more like the um the experiencing that is that precedes the education. Because when we go into mental education, when we when we talk about education, we normally think about thinking and thinking different thoughts and weaving them in different ways, right? And and then again, we feel good about that, but then it's just a concept that is not embodied. And what I'm coming in with when I say about the global unity, when I talk about that, it's about um let's start there before we say we're one with everything. Let's just be one with each other.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Right?

SPEAKER_00

Because then if we can manage to do that, then we've taken the basic step that we need to go to global unity.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Right? Or to to one with everything, with the universe and existence. So Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Going off on a slight tangent. Okay. Uh I don't know. You haven't watched that show on Apple called Pluribus, have you? Uh no. Are you aware of this show? No. I think you need to watch it. Okay. Basically, it it's it's by Vince Gilligan, who's the guy who did Breaking Bad. Um, and it just came out last year or earlier this year or something. But it's basically about um a virus that comes from outer space, right? It infects everybody on the pl on the planet, and it basically everyone on the planet has like a hive mind. They're basically joined together by this sort of psychic glue. Okay. Right. Right. And they're all really, really happy. So they're they're just like this big sort of vibration. Now, the the difference in the film is there's 11 people on Earth who for some reason weren't affected by this virus. And it centers on this one particular woman in New Mexico, who are the star of the show, who um well, she hasn't been affected, so she wants to she wants Earth and everything to return as it should. But what you have is you have all these um people who have been affected are around her, but they're around her in a really loving way. And they're saying to her, um, just come and join us. They because they have some kind of contract and like an unwritten contract that they can't force this onto people. Like even though this virus came down and infected them all, they can't force people have to choose of their own willing to uh to come and join them. And it's kind of really kind of interesting. It's like if if she shouts, so she's getting angry and frustrated, this woman. So if she shouts at one of them and you know just berates them, like you were talking about, you might berate someone and everything goes out the window, then it will affect about a hundred thousand of them in the on the planet who all be like, oh, they're all feel they're all feeling this pain that's or this this um anxiety that this one is feeling. It's really interesting. You you should absolutely check it out. Because it brings up all of these kind of um thoughts and reflections of just this oneness. And it's almost I mean, it's funny because they they paint the whole people as good, but there's there's almost this Orwellian kind of um vibe running through it. In the sense you're like, well, hold on, it's this are we destroying the individual here? It's like the individual versus the the collective.

SPEAKER_00

The story that you just telled about told about this show uh brings to mind the memory of I did a practice group once with people, uh, and we practiced a set of what I call body prayers. And and the body prayers are for knowing ourselves in global unity, right? And we did that practice, and then one of the people said, like, but you know what? I don't want to be one with George, who is whatever name she gave him, you know, some kind of like that's definitely not a person that she would want to be one with, right? That person has harassed her and stuff like that, you know, so she wouldn't want to be one with it. So there comes the question. When people hear the concept of oneness and unity, global unity across the planet amongst old people, the question comes up, well, what about my boundaries? Right? The boundaries are we never give up boundaries in this work. We are always holding our healthy boundaries. We're we're consciously building strong, healthy boundaries that that help us navigate the challenges of everyday life.

SPEAKER_01

Aaron Powell You say strong healthy boundaries, but isn't that I know this sounds weird, but isn't that a bad thing, though? If you want oneness, you don't want strong, healthy boundaries, do you? No. There's no boundary.

SPEAKER_00

No, no. It sounds like a contradiction, but that contradiction needs to exist. Um it's not a contradiction because we need to have healthy, strong boundaries in order to be able to discern, right? Because everybody has choice. You brought up the question of choice from that show. Yes, everybody has choice, and everybody has free will to choose. And some people choose some things that are not beneficial for me. And I need to be able to say no and not just be there open and be run over by somebody who thinks that they should run me over. Right? That that self-care is imperative in this work because we can't go um kind of like giving up responsibility, giving it to source, sort of, and say, you take care of everything, I'm just gonna walk across the street not looking at the traffic that's coming. Yeah. We can do that. We have to be we live in the world where we need to have discernment, powerful discernment, that helps us stay healthy and grounded and in our uh in our integrity and in our connection with spirit, and in that, in that container, we can then work on uh on the unity question. Yeah. Right? But without that container, it's it's just gonna dissipate at the first challenge.

SPEAKER_01

So when you Yeah. So when you say, okay, let's just go right to the first thing you said, I'm working on now is helping people anchor a direct felt knowing. So when you may so when you say people, you're talking we're talking like indiv one individual at a time.

SPEAKER_00

Could be, or small groups.

SPEAKER_01

Or are you talking more literally more global?

SPEAKER_00

It needs to start small, you know, because like now you and I were talking, maybe there's another 10 or 15 or 20 people who have talked about this. Uh a certain number of them did those practices with me. So there is a certain number of people who have been exposed to this. But it has to go small, it has to go slow because it's also if we're if we would get that virus, the oneness virus tomorrow, right? We wouldn't be prepared. We we wouldn't know what to do. We would be like thrown left and right by everything else that comes around us, right? And and there's not only people, there's also the world, and there is the the world of spirit that interacts with us.

SPEAKER_01

And the Well I rem I remember you, you postulated a th I theory once to me that you had this idea. I'm not sure did you believe I think you believed it, but may I don't want to put words into your mouth, but you had this idea that the mind was a virus, I remember you telling me. Yeah, yeah. So I d I don't know. I mean, if you get it, you say we don't know what to do, but that but but there's nothing to do. If you get it, it's kind of doing it for you.

SPEAKER_00

I'm not quite getting your your art right now. What what is it doing for us?

SPEAKER_01

The mind or the okay, do you think we have free will?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01

Because some people some people think that we're just everything is just one reaction from the say the big bang to now, everything is just causation. It's just one reaction that's happened. So basically, so for example, you know, you had no choice but to do this podcast with me. Everything in your life, everything you've done has just led to the point that you're doing this podcast with me right now. And if the same pattern was repeated again, the same instant if we could go back in time and the same thing was done again, and I said to you, Oh, do you want to come on a podcast? You you actually have no choice but to say, Yes, I do want to come on the podcast. So going back, you know, if you think of the mind as some kind of virus, then it's it's directing you at that point. Yeah? You're not you're not directing you, you're being led by this thing.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's interesting because um the mind itself postulates things that we get entangled in in contradictions, right? But it's true that the mind is, we can see the mind and interpret it, like I said a few years ago, that it's like a virus. Um, we can interpret it like that. But it we can also say that it's at the same time an aspect of source, because everything is an aspect of source or nothing is. Yeah. Yeah. And then we can also say that, yeah, we don't have free will, but we're switching levels of awareness at that point. We're saying, okay, in one in one level of awareness, we have complete free will and we have free choice about our about what we decide to be in life, right? But then in another level of awareness, depending on what we're looking for, there is also no flow, as you said, because there is the incessant weaving of source that recreates itself in all that it creates, permanently changing everything. And there is no choice in that because we're just part of that weaving choice that that we happen to be here right now in this moment. And then we can say that every thought that we have that we have chosen to have, or or not, depends on the level of awareness that we're looking from, that can then then be used to see that, okay, yeah, source is moving through us right now as we're speaking. And and uh we had no choice to do what we're doing right now here. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01

So let me interrupt you quickly. So what is source? Is it is it is it like the universal white light? Is it consciousness? Is it matter? What do you consider to be source?

SPEAKER_00

Probably all of that, you know, like these are we have a lot of names for it, many different cultures have different names, but each name is just like um can only can only circumscribe a small fraction of it. Because we impose our idea of source onto that which is unlimited, and the unlimited cannot be described. So if I would say source is dot dot dot, I would be wrong. Necessarily because it's undescribable, it's unperceivable in its magnitude. It's cannot be um it cannot be mentally comprehended because it cannot be boxed in into mental concepts. So then there is that which is unfathomable, which we try to make fathomable fathomable by giving it definitions and names and giving it a long white beard, maybe.

SPEAKER_01

See, the problem is though, whether you're talking about science or religion, yeah. It's all unfathomable if you keep chunking down enough. Right. You know, it all kind of makes sense. But the deeper, the deeper, the deeper you go, suddenly you kind of hit a a block and you're like, oh hold on, this kind of isn't adding up for me.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. You seem to have thought a lot about this. Like what what what is your conclusion?

SPEAKER_01

What as far as sources.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. Where did you get with it? Or where are you with that?

SPEAKER_01

I'm I'm not sure where I'm at with it actually. There's such a I'm not even sure how to even begin to kind of answer that question, but there's such a hotchpotch, mishmash of uh just different uh ideas. I think let me try and okay, let me try and speak it out in the analogy of okay, so your email, you said are we leading from source? Okay. Right. If we're leading, okay, if we're leading from source, am I leading from source? See to me I I almost want to ignore the last bit as well when you say or from fear, because uh when you talk source and fear, then you'll say talking, well, is this is this about perception? It's there, am I kind of fears like low perception, low anxiety, where a source is more trustworthy, more open, you know. So when you kind of think of it in those terms, I think that the source has to be something universal. It has to be knowledge. Now, I don't know if knowledge is necessarily spirit, but it has to be some kind of higher understanding that isn't sort of brainwashing us as we are on earth now or as a lot of people are now. So what is source? I do know what I want to say to you, source is the universal white light prana or whatever that we're all drawn to. You know what? That's what I want to say. Okay. Um I don't quite know how to get there though, or I don't know quite how to define that, or I don't know if I quite believe that though, even though that's what I want to say. Okay. I don't I don't know if I'm making any sense to you here.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, you are. You are. You are definitely. I appreciate that you shared so I have a little bit um more understanding if we're talking about the same thing. Yeah. And and that helps to connect in that sense. I think for me it's um it's outside of thinking. I said I think, but it's outside of thinking. And and um besides what I said before, that's all the unfathomable, unundefinable, undescribable, uh it it is in the end energy. Right? It's pure energy. And the energy is moving and moving through everything and moving everything and is everything at the same time. And when I'm asking, are we leading from source? I mean, are we leading from the consciousness that that confirms to us when we're leading, in whatever way we're leading, in a small way, in a large way, that um we are in alignment with that. And the consequence of that question is, am I um in a leading position if I am in one, or if I'm in a following position if I am in one, am I leading and following from knowing that that same source that is everything is also in the other person? Right. And if I if I can't see it in myself, right, right. So like if I'm caught in some pattern of uh self-deprecation or or self-pity or or grand self self-aggrandizing, right, I could feel superior or inferior to other people, then I'm not in, I'm not in my knowing of being an uh an inextricable aspect of this which is moving right now through all of us as us. And if I'm not in my knowing about myself, I can't be in my knowing about somebody else. Right? So if I'm not seeing myself in my divine essence and nature, and I don't accept myself as possibly being part of it, then I won't be able to see it in others. And what is the consequence of that?

SPEAKER_01

What is the consequence of that? Okay, so if you're so say we've got this global unity, or not even global unity, say it's just you and one other person. Um is there any kind of okay, so you're both tapping into this source, you're both tapping into this energy, even, you're both tapping into this energy. It's both uh putting you on the same sort of uh flow. Now at that point you could say, okay, we are one. Uh but in your construct of this uh picture, is there any um variation between you both?

SPEAKER_00

Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01

So there is yeah. Yeah, go on.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, there is individual expression, right? It's the same source expressing as my body, or the same source expressing as yours, right? And where where my my interest is is to bring that knowing between the two of us. When we say here we are now facing each other, we're looking into each other's eyes, even through this camera, right? We're looking into each other's eyes, let's say, and it is source itself looking at itself through these two pairs of eyes. It is source itself looking at itself, perceiving, knowing itself through these two pairs of eyes, and glancing right into the essence of the other aspect of itself through these two pairs of eyes, through sensory perception that comes from source. In the end, everything comes from source or nothing does, right? Source itself is interacting with itself all the time, witnessing itself in its incessant creation, witnessing itself in the changes that it brings, in in the in in what we often describe as good or bad. Right? We describe it, but regardless of what we describe, it's still source acting through and as and with and because of us. Right? We are we are we are its engine. Yes. And not only you and me, but now we're talking about you and me here, and we're perceiving each other through our sensory perception, through our ears, but it's source itself who does that, which does that.

SPEAKER_01

Do you think that do you think one I this is kind of a bit of a silly question, really, but do you think a certain sensory perception, say hearing or feeling, like kinesthetic or seeing, do you think one is more important than the other? As far as as far as being a vessel for energy or connection? I guess I guess I'm talking in terms of connection. You know? Because if you think right, I mean th okay, look, it's interesting what you said here, okay. You said that's okay, you said, what are we working on now? Global unity, not just an intellectual, but something the body itself has been longing for, recognizes, and can draw on.

SPEAKER_00

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

So I mean the body itself, you're getting down to the nervous system now. You know?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

You're getting down to how we hold things in the body.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Thanks for thanks for bringing that in there. Uh that's a very important aspect for me, very absolutely. Because when the body is not part of it, you know, it um it cannot be separate from the mind. But also the the body can do things that the mind cannot grasp. The body can expand, right? Not maybe not physically, but the body can expand perception, can expand and become many bodies. If the mind is being put aside or silenced for a while or dampened, the body can go and suddenly like be everywhere at the same time. Aaron Ross Powell What do you mean? I I don't I'm not quite following you.

SPEAKER_01

I like what you're saying. I can see I'm just not quite grasping it yet. Because surely it's the mind that kind of expands outwards, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00

How how is the body expanded? The body can expand its perceptual boundaries. Okay. Right. It can perceive, it can perceive across distance, it can perceive how you feel, how we feel, each of us. Okay. Right. Uh I could sense if you're feeling comfortable or uncomfortable, and you can feel that in me as well.

SPEAKER_01

Okay. So does this happen between you and I over, you know, we're on a couple of thousand miles apart online here. Right. That's going to be slightly different to if you and I were sitting in the same room. You know, or not really.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, there is always different nuances depending on the context that it happens. But but the point is that the body has so much capacity that, for example, when when I do the practices for the global unity, the uh then then um there comes a moment where the body expands. Um that's that's that's probably the best word I can use for it. The body expands and becomes encompassing of more and more. And it's not the mind, you know, because what happens, okay, it depends which school you're looking at. From the Buddhist perspective, you can say it's the mind, everything is the mind. From another perspective, you can say, no, it's not the mind at all, it's something else. So it depends which school school we're looking at, right? The Carlos Castaneda school or the Buddhist school. There are two different definitions, but what actually is important for me in this time that we live in is that we come into a connection with our body in such a way that the body can start to encompass the eight billion fold nervous system that it is. Right? And not only the individual nervous system that is so focused on itself, and that focus on itself comes from the way we are using our minds, our intellectual minds, our interpretive minds, our definitions, our our um even our obligations that we have. We're using all of them in order to create a world that is mind-centric, thinking-centric better to be more precise. And and then the body uh trails behind. It's kind of like an afterthought, right? And when we're when we're starting to actually consciously allow the body to do gestures and use words and use movements and sequences of movements that then it repeats in practice situations, it starts to uh attune to something that it was not allowed to do.

SPEAKER_01

So how, yeah, so I was gonna say, how how do you do this then? So if I if I was gonna come to you um and say, listen, I want to do some, I guess, bodywork or something, what what sort of thing would you suggest?

SPEAKER_00

Uh there are several practices that um I've channeled over the years. And one of them is called um the Inti practices. And that's one that I'm doing a lot myself. Uh, and in that practice, um, or I do it with other people as well, right? In that practice, we're it's a mix of visualization and words. So I call it prayer because we're using words at a particular moment of the sequences of movements, but it's a mix, uh, a mix of everyday gestures put together in a sequence that that um makes sense for the mind. So the intellectual mind, the thinking mind can come along and say, okay, now we're cleaning out all the notions of separation that we have absorbed through our visual sense, through our eyes. So that's all the movies that are about war, or the movies where there was some kind of like conflict, and uh we've seen people clubbering each other up or killing each other, and we've been exposed to that millions, millions of times by the time we're grown up. So all of that is the message of separation outpictured as movies and advertising and and theater place where violence is being made normal. And then we're absorbing that, and then it becomes our normal because it settles in our nervous system as the normal. And then in this practice, we go about and we clear out the sense of the eyes, the visual sense of all the notions of separation, and we do it once, and then we hurl it out the window into the sun to dissolve. So it's uh it's one of them. Then I do the same thing with the ears, the same thing with the heart, with the nervous system, then with the energy field.

SPEAKER_01

And when so what would I be doing, or the uh the client or whatever? Are they am I kind of just lying there or am I interacting with you?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it would mirror me. It would mirror what I'm doing and what I'm saying, right? And and it's all it's it's pretty simple. It's easy to do. You know, we we do this movement saying that here in front of us is a cauldron, a vessel, that we're dipping our hands into the substance of knowing. Yeah. And we take the substance of knowing, which has a color, which every time I ask what's the color today, it could be purple, it could be yellow, it could be white, whatever it is. We dip that color and like water we're splashing in our eyes. The substance of knowing, of unity, which is a completely a complete reframe for the eyes. Right? The eyes are used to seeing everything through the frame of separation and looking into the world because that's how the eyes have been drilled to see the world. And now we're clearing that out and we're setting the stage to have a new frame that we now pull into focus. And then we're looking through this frame, and through this frame, we see this other body of mind that is in front of me right now, this is actually my body as well. And what happens in the process is that there is a deep sense of caring that um starts to emerge, right? And it's natural because um we, you know, like let's say my my hand here, I don't like my pinky, I think that it's kind of stupid, right? It's pretty stupid pinky, why don't I chop it off? Well, it's gonna hurt because it's my body. And in a similar way, right, if we see that um, okay, here is me, and it's my body, but then when I start to see that your body is also my body, there is an unprecedented type of caring and not compassion, not even compassion, not even empathy, but everything that emerges really purely out of the heart. Because, yeah, I love my body, right? And I'm gonna not hurt my finger because it hurts. I'm gonna put some ointment onto it, I'm gonna heal it, right? And then I'm not gonna have the impulse anymore to judge this other body of mine, because if I tell my finger, listen, finger, you're stupid, that frequency spreads into the whole body, infects me, right? And in the same way, when we're doing this in in everyday life, and we're walking around on the street, and I say, oh, he's ugly and she's beautiful, those are all judgments. And I'm throwing those upon them as if they are not my body, and it affects everybody. It affects everybody, and it affects me in return. So the the practical application of this is that in the end, somebody who starts to practice this is gonna learn to be peaceful. And not peaceful in the way that, oh yeah, I'm peaceful, it doesn't matter what you do to me, you can hit me and I'm still peaceful. No, no, I'm gonna say no, stay away. I'm gonna be healthy in my boundaries, as we said before. But I'm I'm I'm developing a deep-rooted sense of um actual love for the other people around me. And if we want where how does this resonate with you so far? Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01

It it's certainly resonating. It's um even though it's body work, yeah. I guess I guess I I guess in my head I was thinking it was going to be something more some more kind of physical exercise kind of routine. But there's still connected to it. I mean, you're obviously doing the movements, but connected to it, there's definitely this sort of I don't know if the cleansing is the right word, there's definitely this flushing of stuff of the mind. So say for example, I've uh dispelled, say, war movies that I've been watching for the last 40 years or so or 50 years. Does that mean then say the following day I walk in and say Alexandra or somebody's watching a war movie, do will I feel a more of a not negative reaction, but an anti-reaction to that? I mean, do it does it set you up for similar things in the future?

SPEAKER_00

Um what it does for me is it reduced my interest drastically to see anything like that. Okay, yeah, I'm making it not interested anymore. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, you know, like for a while as a as a teenager, as a young man, I was doing what everybody else was doing, watching horror movies. Yeah. And here and there I watched a horror movie, and you know, at some point it was like, you know, this is just insane. Why would I let myself become so scared by a horror movie and pay money for it? Why would I do that? It's just very painful to the body. And maybe I'm just too sensitive, I don't know. But but uh that was definitely a turning point where I stopped watching more movies, movies where people are being killed. Um, people, even when there is a what is normal in almost every American movie, that here comes a guy, punches another guy. That's normal. You know, at that point I turn off the TV. This is not a I I don't even have a TV, first of all. But but if I'm exposed in a situation like that, I'm I'm leaving the room, right? So I was with some relatives and they said, I asked, is there any violence in this movie? And they said, Oh no. And then here was enough the punching. So I'm leaving the room because no, there is violence. Why should I participate in that violence by watching it, absorbing it, and confirming that it's okay to do that?

SPEAKER_01

It's yeah. It's interesting actually. You're I tell you what's coming up for me is yeah, okay, I'm just I'm thinking of myself here. Yes. And it's funny because I'm quite a thinker, you know, I sit there and think about things. Uh, but I'm also a long distance runner. So I run a lot of miles. But I'm now, after what you're just saying to me, I'm almost thinking there's this kind of you know, I th I think I go running, so I'm there for doing good things for my body. I'm kind of keeping it healthy, I'm going running. At the same time, there I can sit there and ruminate on things, and you know, things can just go over and over in my head as I'm thinking deeply about something, you know. And it could be something serious or it could be just something really not serious, or just something interesting, like, you know, the beginning of the universe or something, but just intensely thinking about it. But listening to you just now, I'm seeing there seems to be a disconnect with me between my thoughts and my body. To me, they're two clear different sort of uh compartments or something. Whereas you, when you were talking about sort of the way you were moving and sort of uh flushing things out, there was definitely everything was more one. Oops, hit the mic. Everything was more one, do you know what I'm saying? So that's that's interesting. That's interesting. I don't have anything to add other than really than it's um I can see myself thinking about this over the weekend now. But what I need to do is get that think about it. Say, so I've almost walked into the old Charles or whatever, or the current Charles is I'm thinking about it, but it's almost you've got to think about it in bodily terms. You know? I think.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's interesting. Yeah. Um you're you're hitting the point because like you if you have if you start contemplating and running and thinking about this or thinking about in your everyday life, if it stays only at thinking, you know, there is gonna be then that many other things that the mind is wanna think about. And eventually this fades into the background, and two days later it's gonna be only a short moment where we think about it, and then a week later it's gone. And maybe it reverses it, ref resurfaces somewhere at some point. But my point is to anchor this through the body into everyday life, right? And and uh the simple sequence and gestures that I told you, it does it, right? But it does it because it has the intent to do it. I channeled that that sequence of movements. One day I asked, well, what does it take for a human being to know itself as one with all the bodies? And then this sequence of movements and words just flowed out of me in a 25-minute channeling session, and then I reconstructed it afterwards, and um it was here it is. Now there is a practice that anybody could do. And it's not only intellectual. Like we come back and we revisit it, and the the goal of this practice is not that um like miracle creation instantly, right? Like we do it once and poof, I'm changed. That's it. I'm now enlightened or something. No, it's not at all like that. It's um it's layering. There is one thin layer at a time. And then next practice, another thin layer at a time, and another layer at a time, because it is built exactly in the same way we've been we've built the habit of knowing ourselves as separate.

SPEAKER_01

Aaron Powell And I'm assuming that if you don't practice, the layers actually go away as well. So you have to practice just to maintain?

SPEAKER_00

I don't know about that. I I I think that is um I would say there is a a deposit of divine a deposit of divine light that we're layering into our spirit, into our energy field. And and it's not gonna go away because this is like like directly from source, direct light from source. You know, what's the light? Today it's yellow. I've taken this source light, this is source itself, and I'm soaking into my body. It's not gonna leave, you know, unless I'm doing another practice, which is going watching war movies. That's also a practice. If we do it, you know, we've done it for decades. So now that practice has become so strong. So we go the same way around it, and whether we practice every day or maybe not, it doesn't matter. What matters is that we practice. And that we matter that what matters is more than practice is that we're allowing the body to feel it, to practice it. Because the body is gonna build the new momentum in in our lives. It's gonna crave it at some point.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So who are your teachers when it comes to this sort of work? Who's who's your kind of inspiration? Or who who who do you read or listen to?

SPEAKER_00

I I had many teachers, many different teachers, um in until 10 years ago, but not all at once, you know, like one after the other. I studied one, then I studied another one.

SPEAKER_01

And I'm talking I'm talking about the body work precisely, not the so I know you've got kind of a wide palette of sort of inspirations and influences of this this sort of work. Um specifically.

SPEAKER_00

The notion that this is possible actually finds. Already years ago when I stumbled upon Tibetan pulsing, which was a practice, a physical practice of doing certain routines. And then later on I found not the similar, but I found a version of using the body for changing the energy field through tensegrity with Carlos Castaneda. Yeah. And that set a seed into me. And then when I when the years later, when I learned about channeling and energy reading, then I learned how to see light consciously, right? And when I started to when I started to grasp how this light works and that I can ask it questions, then the combination of the physical practices and this new skill merged into one thing. I remember I was sitting, I was standing in my room, in my living room in LA, in the house where I lived there, and and I was sick. And I asked myself, I don't know what to do. I need to find a way to heal. And then that moment, light, this I saw this flicker of light, and I followed it with movement of my body, and I um uh and this became like an answer to my question. And from then it built into a whole library of uh that I recorded now, a whole library, like probably almost 200 different body prayers that I recorded so far. Wow. And um some a good chunk of them are um I worked in a way that they can be actually shown to people and people could learn that. And they are all of them are answers to a question. And I channeled the answer through movement and through words, the words accompanying the movement, so I would just simply say what I'm doing. And there came like healing statements and um and and answers to my questions, basically in form of movement. And then I practiced those, and um, some of them are specifically for healing, some of them are specifically for addressing the presence of fear in our lives on many levels.

SPEAKER_01

Some of them are um can you give an example of a body prayer now?

SPEAKER_00

Uh I can I can show a section maybe. Um so there is a body prayer that is called um what what is your area of interest? Let's see if I have one. An area of interest for you. A spiritual area of interest or a physical spirit a healing question or something like that. Maybe I have one for that.

SPEAKER_01

Uh okay. I have um some kind of pain in my neck here. Okay. And I've been to various doctors and they say, no, there's nothing wrong with you. So and it and sometimes it stops for weeks on end, and sometimes it just pops back randomly. So I'm just like and I've just learned to kind of ignore it. Basically. Yeah. Because I don't know, is that is that an area?

SPEAKER_00

Um it could be. Like if I if you and I would work together, I would channel a body prayer specifically for that one. Yeah. And it could could look like like a movement of the arm like this, right? Yeah. Uh or and then because I'm following that light, I might do this movement and I'm following it, I'm observing what it does, and I work with closed eyes, and then I videotape all this. And then um, whatever the sequence is, could be that I do this, it could be do that I do this. I don't know what it is, what I'm gonna do, because the light would dictate what I'm doing as I'm following it around. And then that would be your specific body prayer, right? I would I would give that to you to practice, and then you would practice specifically with that intent to address this pain that you have there, right? For me, um for me, one of my body prayers that I practiced a lot was release my habitual need to know myself through fear. That's the name of it. Okay, right. I asked that question, how can I release my habitual need to know myself through fear? So that implies two things that there is a need to know myself through fear, and that it's habitual. So then then there was there was a there is a purple light that comes from the side and changes my direction. It it uh changes my stance and makes me jump twice, like this, and then like that, and I'm facing a different direction. It made me jump, right? And then I'm here, I'm standing here, and then let's see what's next. Um yeah, and then it jolts awake my energy. Then I'm here, I'm standing, I'm sending here, and that purple light, it's purple light, it jolts awake my energy. It goes like this boom, with one jolt here. Wow. Right? So these are the first two movements, and there are very, very many different movements that out of the context of this body prayer would make no sense. Right? It's just like you just do this movement, it's like nothing, right? You can say it's like anybody could put this together, but no, actually it comes as a specific answer with a particular light, with a particular vibration that has power. And when I practice this and I've been practicing that for around two years until I notice suddenly, like, you know what? My level of my general level of fear, that is like a chronic fear that I've been experiencing forever, has diminished. And we can argue, well, maybe it was something else. I don't know. But I practice these and I see that it has diminished. The general level of fear has overall diminished, and I don't have that constant anxiety inside myself anymore. Is it a body prayer? I don't know. I would say, yes, it is, because I didn't do anything else.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. What what does your daily practice on average kind of look like then, as far as uh mind, body, souls, I generally practice everyday body prayers at least for half an hour.

SPEAKER_00

And they could be on different themes. Um for a long time I practiced five different body prayers on the theme of fear. Uh and I practiced.

SPEAKER_01

Would this be like okay, just to interrupt quickly, is this something you would like to get up and do in the morning, first thing you do in the morning, or is it just some sometime during the day?

SPEAKER_00

Could be sometime. I experimented with it. I did it uh like when I have a 10-minute break from work. I just do one, I practice one body prayer there. Then in the next break, I practice the next one. And they vary in length. There they could be like from a few seconds to almost 10 minutes, long sequences of movement that that um that have evolved in in this practice, in this channeling practice, basically. And um it has a tremendous, tremendously powerful impact on me. And I suspect that if there are many people practicing it, or more people practicing it, they will have the same effect. And he goes, why not? Because if we're layering one layer after the other gently and peacefully and patiently, eventually it it arrives at a certain level when it starts to actually show as a measurable change in in behavior or in the body or in perception, right? And the same thing with the with the practices of the one human body, the the global body of humanity, that uh I practiced it so many times, it's now it it I really feel that it there is it's more of it. Right? There is more of it in me, more of that awareness. And and the important thing is, you know, like when I give you an example, when there was um when a particular president got voted for and he won, then um I I felt two weeks before that, I felt a wave of fear. I don't know, some kind somehow clairvoyantly or so, I felt a wave of fear rolling through through the United States. It was like a two-week-long wave of fear. And then suddenly the news came in, and I didn't feel fear. I didn't feel that I'm part of that wave of fear. But I knew that actually I need to be a different anchor. I need to anchor peace. I need to anchor love. I cannot participate in the fear, no matter what it is, and no matter who is in power. Um, there is there is the only thing that we can really do is to start changing ourselves and not be susceptible for the fear that people in power are using in order to subdue us, to scare us. Right? Wow. And and yeah, so that's that's an aspect that um is a strong, strong motivator for me to live in the world. Um, you know, people said that before Gandhi said that be the be the change you want to see in the world. And I think it's really hard to be the change that you want to see in the world. Yeah. I think it takes a lot of layers of continuously building and and um and the effect of so many people in the world having done work that is an investment into peace is visible because I think that now there is a I'm thinking to that I observe, I seem to observe, I seem to see that the new generation of people, they are less afraid than my generation or the generation that came before me. There seems to be less fear in the air, uh, or not in the air, but in the in the new generation. Right? There is a lot of yeah, there is a lot of fear in a lot of people, but probably with your son Alexander, he's probably less afraid than you were at his age.

SPEAKER_01

I think kids also kind of just take it in their stride, don't they? You know, whereas we might think we know better or know things or have some kind of awareness. I know what I wanted to ask on a f on a slight tangent, what do you think of chanting?

SPEAKER_00

I think it's beautiful. I mean, it's beautiful if it if it creates a peaceful feeling in someone, why not? You know? I I chant, I chant sometimes. I don't chant in religious ways. I chant, um, I sing uh healing songs, uh traditional um ayahuasca songs and and songs that I learned from another plant, the salvia, that we talked about before. So I sing those songs often. And uh it's um it's a part of my almost daily practice. Almost every night when before I go to sleep, I sing one or two of those songs before I go to sleep. So that's another part of my practice.

SPEAKER_01

I was gonna say, besides the introduction, it's taken us uh 56 minutes to get to the word plant in the that that's yeah. I mean, so how does all that fit into this then?

SPEAKER_00

Um it give it charges everything with potency. You know, like the much of what we talked about today could stay intellectual. But if we take what we talked today and um infuse it with um with the power of a power plant, of a healing plant, then it will give it life. And it will give it life on a physical level that the body knows, right? And and that's one thing that I've learned through the plant spirits, that um what it means to feel. Because really nobody can teach us how to feel, but the plant spirits can. Right? So if you don't know how to feel unity, if I go to a plant spirit, let's say I go to an ayahuasca retreat or so, and I go there and I have that as my meditation theme, and I go to ayahuasca and I ask, show me. She for sure is gonna show me something. Right. And that that what she's showing stays on a physical level as a as a as a as an as an emotional anchor, a feeling anchor in the body. Right. And I can go back to that one and and build on it. I can hook into it, I can awaken it through my everyday life or in my practices, right? And in the interactions with people sometimes also.

SPEAKER_01

So yeah, wow, you just brought up just a load of things, my head could just go off in all these different directions here. Another podcast. We'll do another podcast. Oh, yeah, we're we're gonna have to do it. We're gonna have to do another one. So um yeah, that's so what do you think of like say pan-psychism?

SPEAKER_00

I don't think anything. I just do the work that I'm doing. And uh on my path I I sometimes encounter plant spirits, and on my path I encountered spiritual teachers. And I think panpsychism, I didn't study it enough to have an opinion. Yeah. So I can't really say anything about it. I I just I just what I think to know about it is that it it comes from indigenous roots and is rooted in in indigenous traditions. That's what I think, but I might be completely wrong because I didn't study the theme in that way. I'm just doing the work.

SPEAKER_01

You could you could well be right. I'm just thinking of it more because it's got it's the main principle is it's that consciousness. There's consciousness in everything.

SPEAKER_00

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

And it's interesting because as things get more complex, so you can start off with sort of protr protons or whatever that have some kind of experience or awareness, but as you mess with them and join them all together and things get more complex, so more complicated things are constructed or made. So plants, I guess, in the pyramid would actually be considered lower forms than us humans because they're less complicated than we are. So it's interesting though. So that's why I mentioned what you think of it, because it's it's interesting that the plant is informing us. Yes. You know?

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely. The plants have have something to teach us that we are hard-pressed nowadays in this world to learn. They have higher consciousness than we can even imagine. And they are willing to teach us. And um as a society, we're creating laws that outlaw them one after the other. Right. Now there is also the opposite movement. Marijuana got uh legalized, and now psilocybomb is getting legalized more and more. That's good, that's a good trend. Um but but there is still a lot of resistance because plant spirits, what they do, they they take off our mask of limitation and our mask of separation, and they pull it down, and for a few hours or for a few minutes, depends, we can see something new. We can sense it, we can feel it, not only see with our eyes, but we can sense the world from a different perspective from a higher perspective. But not only, you know, it's not for everybody. Some people have experiences that they regret that they had them and they're walking away in fear, but that's only because they weren't prepared properly. So if people would be properly prepared in interacting with spirit with the spirits of the plants, if everything would be legal, it would be so great because people actually could go to school to learn before they interact with the plants. You know, that would be great to have as a curriculum in every school so that we are allowed to actually tap into our divine gift of expanding awareness.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

That would be amazing, I would say.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Okay. So, Stefan, we're gonna have to start to tie this up soon. But well, I want to say, I want to I want to go right back to the beginning now because it's interesting. You were just talking about plants. So where was the uh oh here it is. I'm I'm just gonna skip to the last sentence. I keep thinking about this question are we leading from source or from fear? That just came up for me when uh you were just talking about the plants a moment ago.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And it do you know, it's funny, I was really on kind of a source kind of trip or tip. But thinking about it, the you know, your plan for global unity is most people are leading from fear, you know. I think I think they are. So so again, it just comes back to increasing awareness, you know, for global helping people by just increasing their uh education of all of these things, of all of these things that we can kind of exercise from the body, you know, and all of these um medicines or whatever that can uh that can inform us, you know? Yeah, I think.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Do you want me to reflect on that or yeah, go on, yeah, go ahead. Okay. Um I I agree with your idea of uh education. And the the big big thing is right now that we have as a humanity, we have such a hard time discerning what we are leading from, right? And when we really scrutinize the motivation that most of us have when we're doing something or you know or are in leadership positions, if it comes from greed or if it comes from uh scarcity, right? Or if it comes from envy, I need to be stronger and more powerful than him. And that these are all so weird types of motivations that are um that are leading to undesired effects on the planet, and on us, on all of us, right? So the discernment would be the education that we would need is an education of discernment in what is actually fear. Right? We need to understand what fear is and how it manifests. Before we don't understand that, we it's almost not useful to talk about um anything else. That's the if it were a curriculum, I would say 101 is understanding the many facets of fear and how it shows up in everybody's life, in one's own life and in the world. So we can learn to spot it right away when it's acting upon us. And that's number one. And uh 102 would be then um how do we deal with that? And how do we how can we change ourselves in the face of fear? And one or three would be then probably going into practices that help us understand what it is like to live outside of fear from the and to live from the perspective of of source, um, through the lens of source being in everybody without denying it in anyone. Right. And then I think then we're ready to create peace on earth.

SPEAKER_01

Wow, yeah. You you've just you've just laid out the three plans, you've just put out the three plans right there and then of what people go. So, right, Stefan, if people want to if people want to get hold of you, uh do you have like a I you do have a website?

SPEAKER_00

Is there Yeah, stefanfabri.com. It's up there, yes, it exists.

SPEAKER_01

All right, I'll put I'll put up a link below that as well. Uh you're not really a social media person, are you? I don't think.

SPEAKER_00

Not yet. Not yet. I think I feel it somewhere in my intuition that I would need to be, and maybe I will kind of it's funny though, because it's almost like that's at odds with the goal, with the aim.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, at the same time, that's kind of a part of the uh that's kind of one of the tools to help facilitate that process there. Right. Yeah, right. It's yeah, it's it's Stefan, it's been amazing talking to you. And we've got we've got to do this again because there's there's just a bunch of stuff that uh we haven't even spoken about that that needs to be discussed. Exactly. So um, but yeah, but listen, I will put links up below so people can uh kind of get hold of you if they need to. Yeah. And um yeah, it's really good to reconnect with you.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's a very, very great pleasure to connect with you and to talk with you again and have one of our conversations, maybe different than were in the past, but still tying into the into the possibilities.

SPEAKER_01

We're we're evolving, we're just evolving. We're evolving with the flow of the universe, yes. Cool.

SPEAKER_00

All right, all right. Big thank you for inviting me. Thank you so much for paying attention to my email.

SPEAKER_01

My pleasure, Stefan. Okay, bye for now. Bye everybody.