Deep Dive Episode 38 ( Tim Lester, Iowa Hawkeye Offensive Coordinator )

The road to becoming the offensive coordinator at the University of Iowa doesn't usually begin in a high school math classroom. But then again, Tim Lester has never taken the usual path. Before joining the Hawkeyes, Lester's football journey wound through just about every level of the game imaginable. He starred as one of the most prolific quarterbacks in Western Michigan history, played professionally in the XFL and Arena Football League, taught high school math, served as a Division III head coach, led a Division I program at Western Michigan, worked in the NFL with the Green Bay Packers, and ultimately found his way to Iowa City. Along the way, he built a reputation as an innovative offensive mind who sees football through the lens of both a coach and a mathematician.

In this episode, Tim shares stories from that remarkable journey, from growing up in football-rich Wheaton, Illinois, to discovering that his love for the strategy of the game outweighed his original plans to become a teacher. We talk about the numbers behind play-calling, the lessons he learned at every stop along the way, and why taking an unconventional route ultimately prepared him for one of college football's most scrutinized jobs.

Now, as Iowa's offensive coordinator, Lester has become part of one of the sport's most respected coaching lineages. The Hawkeyes' coaching tree stretches back to the legendary Hayden Fry and includes names like Bill Snyder, Barry Alvarez, Bob Stoops, Kirk Ferentz, and countless others who have shaped college football for decades. Tim Lester's story is a reminder that while every branch of that coaching tree grows a little differently, the best coaches often arrive with experiences that are anything but ordinary.

#Iowa #IowaFootball #Football #CollegeFootball

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

If you're a young sports mind approach and wondering where to start to become an offensive coordinator in the Big Ten, step one might be getting a job as a high school math teacher. Today's guest has taken a pretty amazing journey to get where he is today. XFL quarterback, arena league football quarterback, division three head coach, division one head coach, NFL analyst, and yes, even a high school math teacher. He was also a pretty outstanding athlete, putting up mind-blowing numbers to go along with his incredible highlight reels. Please join me in welcoming today's guest, the offensive coordinator for the Iowa Hawkeyes, Tim Lester. Hey Tim, how you doing?

SPEAKER_06 0:37

I am doing fantastic. How are you guys doing? Good.

SPEAKER_01 0:40

Thanks for joining us. Thanks for joining us, Tim. Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_06 0:42

Thanks for having me. Yeah, it looks like you're uh where are you at? I'm in Michigan. I'm at uh we have a lake cottage here. And uh so this is kind of the the the calm before the storm.

SPEAKER_02 0:55

The lake life, like how much what's the value of all your lake life uh signs and for beds and all your lake life gear that I'm sure you've accumulated a lot.

SPEAKER_06 1:06

I mean, everything there's always something to be had here, something to do, some to work on, something to buy to hang up, you know. And we bought we bought it I don't know four years ago, and my wife gutted it. And it's a little place, you know, it's great. There's three bedrooms and one room to hang out in, which is where I'm at right now. It's perfect, and uh, and then obviously a huge patio on the lake, which is really all you need, right? Blake life is about relaxing and hanging out with your neighbors. And I have a I have a great neighbor, you know, that one neighbor that that's like nosy and knows everything going on.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

Yeah, we need those neighbors.

SPEAKER_06 1:39

I love them, especially since I don't I'm not here very often, right? You know, so if like if the grass is too long, I get the text, hey, your grass is long.

SPEAKER_01 1:47

Yeah, you know, and you don't need to have a camera on your property because you got your neighbor watching over.

SPEAKER_06 1:52

I got them, I got them, and and and I don't have a ton of tools here, and there's always something to fix. So I'm like, Hey, do you have you know? And he's like, Oh, I got four of them, you know, you know. Sounds like Becky, yes, it's fantastic to have him. He's the best.

SPEAKER_02 2:07

That's great. We had some friends have uh get a cabin up by the Dells, and we got in this little lake life sign, you know. Oh, yeah, we gave it to them and they acted like they were all excited. Then that night, you know, I was trying to figure out where to hang some clothes up, and I opened up this door and it was a water heater, and there was like five other signs exactly like that. Yeah, everywhere.

SPEAKER_04 2:29

Five other people that yeah, you're like, first of all, you gave the boss the exact same gift everyone else did, right? Well, we appreciate taking a few minutes of your precious lake time to uh join us. We're sure it's valuable to you. All right. Oh, it's fun.

SPEAKER_02 2:43

I'm gonna give you um a couple places here, institutions in Iowa City, and let me know if you have stepped foot in them. This is not gonna be an indictment of your character, just kind of give us an idea of uh what you've done since you've been here. So have you been to Joe's place? I've been nope, not Joe's place.

SPEAKER_06 3:02

I don't think so. No, how about the hilltop? No, heard about it.

SPEAKER_02 3:07

Okay, how about Baxes at Sutliff Bridge? No, okay, Club 76? No, George's.

SPEAKER_06 3:15

Well, yes, yes, yes, yes. The lodge I went like a couple weeks ago.

SPEAKER_02 3:19

Yes, okay, good. I took my middle son. Yeah, okay. How about George's buffet? No. All right, you've got to do us the honor of letting us be the three that take you to the city.

SPEAKER_01 3:30

Let us buy let us buy you a beverage in each of those places.

SPEAKER_02 3:33

I'm in. Is that it? All right, we got it on tape, man. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_06 3:38

All right, so hey, where'd you grow up at? I grew up in Wheaton, Illinois, West Suburb of Chicago. Uh, my whole family grew up in like Downer's Grove, uh, but all right there, West Suburb. And um, so yeah, it's great. I went to Wheaton Warrenville South High School, you know, had a great time. We had a we had a great high school football coach and and we had a great run. I think it was I think we went to 11 state championships in 22 years, which for a public school is hard to do, right? Right, you know, right uh so we it was a great it was a great run and um produced a ton of you know college football players and some Iowa. I know there's a little Iowa Let's Richardson, Moyaki. Uh so you you definitely I played with Moyaki's older brother. Oh okay. And so uh Larry, he went to BYU, but you guys got Tony, who was a great player, and um, and then you had Dace and so you've got a lot of them. Yeah, Chuck Long. Chuck Long. We assume that's a he's a northerner, he's on the north side of the track. Okay, every time I see him, we we banter back and forth. Uh he's from the other side of the tracks. He's the north, he's the wheat and north guy. I'm a wheat and south guy. Um, but yes, so him and uh Kent Graham and Chuck Long in our you know, growing up were big names for quarterbacks in our you know, and then um you know our claim to fame is Red Grange, you know. He he was called the Wheaton Iceman was his nickname. And oh no, um, so we played on Red Grange Field, we were the Red Grange Tigers. I got to meet his wife. Oh wow when we went to the state championship game. So it was it was a pretty cool tradition, you know, to to come up with that. And and it kind of got me into football.

SPEAKER_04 5:17

I was saying so. Growing up there was football first love and right into it, or were you like into baseball or other things first? Or baseball.

SPEAKER_06 5:24

I thought I thought I was a baseball player. Okay, I had I had a great uh I had a great freshman summer where we went downstate and I I was meeting with agents and stuff. Like I thought, I mean, I thought baseball was the one, and um I played baseball my sophomore junior senior year, I only played football my junior senior year. Oh, okay. Uh varsity, varsity football. Yeah, yeah. Um and uh I just remember thinking at one point, you know, there were a lot of good baseball players, you know what I mean? Like I was one of them, like I could throw it, I could hit it. And uh were you a pitcher?

SPEAKER_01 5:58

What'd you play, Tim?

SPEAKER_06 5:59

I I pitched short and third.

SPEAKER_01 6:01

Pitch short and third, all right.

SPEAKER_06 6:03

And uh but every team had like two or three pretty good ones, you know. Uh and then and I just remember thinking, God, like I don't, and no one can really throw the ball like me though. Football, you know what I mean? Like it started to be a it differentiated me a little bit and uh compared to when you compare yourself to other people. Um speaking of a little league uh baseball, um, I played little league all the way through eighth grade uh with Matt Bowen, who's an online grade. I've known Matt since we were in T ball together. We on the blue team. So we're really really crazy with uh we had no names.

SPEAKER_01 6:39

I was gonna say you're pretty pretty simple there.

SPEAKER_06 6:41

Yep, green team, we were the blue team, and uh and we lost to the orange team in the championship every year. Um, anyway, but uh so and he was a great baseball player too. But uh so it was really like my junior year where I decided football was the way. And uh the Western Michigan foot baseball coach, he tried his best to, you know, every single time I saw him on campus for five years, he tried to get me to come out, but I was like, you know, I just kind of I kind of want to see how good I can get at one thing, you know, and had and I had a great career. I got to play 44 games and I wouldn't change anything.

SPEAKER_02 7:14

Yeah, I have this theory, and I we we keep getting one year closer every year. But take any player that's in any hall of fame in any sport, and they played all different types of sports. If you're hockey, you play basketball, baseball, same thing. We're getting closer and closer to where club sports kind of took over, and it was just a single sport all the way through. But the greatest athletes, I think, played everything, you know, and they enjoyed everything and they they played all year round.

SPEAKER_06 7:42

And but uh no, there's there's something about the competitiveness of a guy that that like there's nothing you're gonna do to stay in shape better than running gassers and basketball. I stunk at basketball, but I played because my buddies played, yeah. And I I could have said I was gonna work out that way, right? There's no way I would have worked as hard as running those casters. Uh, there's nothing hand-eyed coordination than trying to hit a ball, a round ball with a round bat pitched at you, you know. I also think that people get overlooked, the just the playing for different coaches. You know, you're gonna have coaches you like, you're gonna have coaches you don't like, right? And you gotta find a way to be successful in whatever sports you're in. You're not always gonna have the best. You're you know, that there's now there's like coaches I coached them in seventh grade, and then I became the middle school coach, then I became the high school coach, and they've only been coached by one person, and that's not realistic. And they're you're gonna have a lot of bosses, like you better you better be able to deal with people. So I love that factor of you know, hey, I love the track coach. I really didn't love the baseball. Doesn't mean you quit baseball, you keep playing, you just you gotta figure out how to get by, you know.

SPEAKER_04 8:47

Yeah, so was coaching something at an early age you gravitated towards and thought that's what you would do, or did you come to that later as well?

SPEAKER_06 8:53

You know, I thought I was gonna be uh uh I went into business, kind of kind of like every freshman. I don't know what I want to do. Business, right? And so my first summer at Western, I I took a job and I gosh, I should remember the bank. I think what's called fifth, third bank. And it was the first time in my life that in the summertime I was inside. Yeah, shirt and a tie. Yeah, I switched my major immediately. I was like, there's no way I can be inside in the summer, there's no way for my own for my own mental health, and uh so I went in at Western, you had to major in the uh subject you wanted to teach. So you majored in math and minored in education. So that's what I did. Okay, uh, there was no you know, secondary mathematics education major, so you had to build it that way, which made it a little bit harder because you have to major in math. And I was gonna take calc, one, two, three, and four, which three and four were insane. And uh, but so I had to do that, and uh and I was gonna be a math teacher. And I really after playing four years of college football, like you you fall in love with the game and the X's and O's of it. And I I really enjoyed, you know, I wasn't the biggest, I wasn't the fastest, I had a good arm, not a great arm. I just love dissecting the game. It felt good to out think uh the coordinator of the other team and to manipulate defenses. Um and then I I went to high school to coach, and man, I guess I just didn't realize how how different the two levels were. Not that I didn't love it, but I really didn't enjoy it. Uh teaching a kid, I'm trying to talk about coverage and where to put your eyes, and I'm instead they're like, How do I throw the ball? Yeah, shoot, okay. And so it's just, you know, it I guess I didn't even realize how different. When I left, my my college offensive coordinator and head coach are like, You're gonna coach college. And I'm like, No, I'm not, you know. I'm I go, you guys work way too much. I said, I'm gonna go coach high school, I'm gonna have my summers off.

SPEAKER_01 10:47

Right.

SPEAKER_06 10:48

And I did it for one year, and I was like, This is miserable on coaching college. And so they were right, and uh, so I've been doing it ever since.

SPEAKER_04 10:55

So being a math uh specialist like that, were you an early adopter to using analytics when you started coaching?

SPEAKER_06 11:01

I was, yeah, I love it. I I love the math of it. I mean, if the one thing I think if you if you work around numbers a lot, the one thing you know is they're the they're the biggest truth teller that there is, they also the best liar, right? I mean, if you want to talk yourself in, I can find some numbers to make you feel good about it, about it, you know. Uh so if you know which ones to look for and which ones actually matter and you listen to the right ones, it could be a competitive advantage, I believe. Uh, but I also can use them to make it sound better. I can use numbers. So you see it on TV all the time. Like you can you can use numbers to make yourself feel better if you need to as well. But there's definitely some numbers that can help you uh, I think get an advantage of what to call or what not to call or what they're gonna do.

SPEAKER_04 11:42

Yeah, you know, safe to assume you were a Bears fan growing up. Is that safe to assume or not?

SPEAKER_06 11:47

I was, yeah. Super Bowl Shut Bowl, Monsters of the Midway, the whole thing.

SPEAKER_04 11:50

Now, were there other teams of that era that you enjoyed watching? Maybe as more of a young student of the game that were influential later on?

SPEAKER_06 11:58

Two two teams. Well, one guy was I love Dan Marino, I was a huge fan, and um, and then I love the 49ers. I was a big fan of Joe Montana and that whole offense. Little did I know I'd be running it someday. Yep. Um, but I just love what they did, how they did it, Roger Craig, Tom Rathman, you know. Um so, and then obviously, you know, Walter Payton and the any any bear, yeah. You know, I was I was you know hooked up. I mean, so when I came out of college, the one thing I screwed up, and I try to, I coach does a great job, but even as head coach, you try to educate these kids on how to pick an agent, right? Yep, pick one that's gonna work for you, that you know, that they're gonna they kind of need you, you know. And so I I had my uncle, who's a judge in Chicago. Uh, I had him kind of talk to everybody during my senior season. I really wanted to focus on my season. And at the end, he kind of presented the top three to me. And uh, I ended up going with uh a guy that I shouldn't have gone with. He's a good guy, but he's he had huge, he had like seven first-round draft picks. I was the only quarterback, but I wasn't even gonna be drafted. If I was, there's gonna be a late-round pick. And uh, but all he had to do is he used to have Jim McMahon, so I got to have dinner. Oh, yeah. Lunch, I went to Jim McSan. I went to his house for lunch, and like the moment he answered the door, I was like, I want to spend time with this guy. I don't think it was the worst decision I ever made, but Jim McMahon, I got I got to meet Jim McMahon. Fantastic. It's like I was 12 again. The moan answered the door. I was like, Oh my god, yeah, that's a great.

SPEAKER_04 13:32

Um, all right, I'm gonna ask one we weren't gonna go too heavy football, but I'm gonna ask you a football question because you kind of queued it up with your answer there. Um, you run what is universally referred to as the Shanahan offense. Yeah, a little bit of a two-part question. Which Shanahan is credited with the offense?

SPEAKER_06 13:48

Uh um, I think most people right now, if you ask them, they'd say Kyle. Okay, you know, but I would say that the head coach at the time, when they were kind of creating it, all they were doing is taking the West Coast system and updating it. It was like a renovation. It's like these TV shows, right? They just they they went in gunmore, they put added the motions, but some of the play calls there might as well be Joe Montana calling it, you know.

SPEAKER_04 14:16

Exactly.

SPEAKER_06 14:16

They modernized it, let's put it that way. But uh Mike Shanahan was the head coach of the Redskins while that was going on, like he was the one that had Kyle and Matt and uh McVay, they were all on that staff when they were doing it. So that's a good question. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 14:31

Well, you know, I always think Shanahan, I think Mike Shanahan and a lot of people think LA and Terr Davis and the Denver Broncos, but I kind of think of as being Walsh's assistant in 49ers. My my question, you kind of answered it, was what distinguishes Bill Walsh's West Coast offense from the Shanahan offense?

SPEAKER_06 14:48

Yeah, it's I mean, like the wide zone, the number one thing, it's the run play and how they run it. Think Terrell Davis, when he ran that wide zone, he was about as good as they come.

SPEAKER_00 14:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 14:56

Uh, and the way and the type of offensive lineman that you can that you need to run this style of of run play and how everything comes off it. That's all the same. But um, you know, there was very little gun back in the day. There's way more gun, there's way more empty, there's way more condensed sets, and there's way more motions. As defense has gotten better, they just needed to modernize the idea of what you're attacking is identical. It's identical. Um, so they had a pretty darn good base when they started messing with it, you know, to try to make it better, you know. And uh, but man, they've obviously done a really good job. There's so many people running it and running it different ways that it's uh it's fun to be a part of.

SPEAKER_04 15:37

Yeah, I bet. All right, go ahead. I'll let you guys shift gears maybe a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 15:41

The mean the one thing I was gonna ask you that it's not controversial whether you were a Bears fan. Were you a Sox fan or a Cubs fan? I was a Cubs fan. All right, very good. North Side.

SPEAKER_06 15:50

Yeah, I was a Cubs fan. I always have been. Uh had season tickets for a little bit. You know, I sat on a waiting list for like 10 years. And it's funny because I when I left Elmer's College and got the job at Syracuse, that's of course when they call, right? I I'm live, I'm literally working 12 miles west of the city of Chicago. I'm in the perfect place to get the call. And I don't get the call, don't get the call. I moved to New York, I get a call from the Cubs. Hey, your number's up. Yeah, but I bought them anyway. Oh, yeah. At that point, it was about a principal. I mean, I never even sat in my seats, I sold them all, I gave them to my kid, my family. I just wanted to say I was the, you know, I I owned uh season tickets, and I eventually, after a couple years, there was a lot more work than fun when you're living in New York and you have tickets to Wrigley. You know, uh, so I ended up turning them down, but yeah, so I'm a I'm a I was a Bears fan growing up and definitely obviously bold, Blackhawks. I was Chicago all the way, which is ironic because then I worked for the Packers.

SPEAKER_01 16:48

Yeah. Well, that's what I was that I was gonna go a little bit different direction in terms of like I don't have a great football question for you, but we'll we'll team more of those up. JP's probably got another handful. But having spent time in Wisconsin and now you're you're in Michigan, um, how do you take your do you do you drink an old fashioned? That's the first question. And the second one is then how do you take it? Oh, well, are you a are you a brandy guy? Are you a bourbon guy? Are you a rock?

SPEAKER_06 17:15

I'm a bourbon, I'm a bourbon.

SPEAKER_02 17:16

I'm a bourbon. You kind of have to make a declaration when you moved Wisconsin, what you're gonna do, right?

SPEAKER_06 17:22

Yes, it has to be clear. And uh I I learned a lot. My neighbor here in Kalamazoo, Michigan was a huge bourbon guy, so I started learning about it. And then when I went to Green Bay, uh Jerry Montgomery, great defensive lineman from Iowa, who's he was he was our D-line coach, his collection is over the top, over the top. Uh so I went to his basement and learned a ton about the different kinds and taste. Like they he was into it. Like I was I was learning, you know. Yeah, uh, so I normally just take it with an ice cube. He had the big block ice cubes, which was solid, you know. Yeah, uh, but I like an old-fashioned 100% if I'm out, you know. Uh but I'm a big Buffalo Trace weller. That's kind of my that's kind of my go-to. Uh my that's the the lane I try to stay in.

SPEAKER_01 18:11

How about um when it comes to beers? You're you're being clear, you're in Kalamazoo. Are you uh Oberon versus uh like a nuclearis? Or yeah, what's the what's the better summer? What's the better summer tap beer when you're uh on a lake?

SPEAKER_06 18:26

It's it's hard to have Oberon, too much of it. It's hard because it's so heavy, you know. It's great that like I was always uh so me and my friends, like we believed, we decided because we were geniuses in college, we had all the answers, um, that that we felt like most of the wedding presents when you got married were centered towards the bride, right? So we made a pact that who whenever you got married, all the guys were gonna get together and buy you a keg rater. There you go. So that that was so every single one of my friends has one. Uh, because then when you got married, that was our gift, right? Okay, and so I learned really quickly uh that we always have like I'm I like coors light, push light, always always keep that in the keg, and then you can try stuff. So I would go a six pack of Oberon over New Claris right now, spotted cow. Yeah, um but I wouldn't mind a six pack of spotted cow, too. Um, but I always have to have you always have course light on top because if you can't you can't have too much of some of those, like I mean, I've been big grove, like how awesome is that place? Oh, yeah, like it's it's the easy eddy. I think it's fantastic, you know. I don't I would never put it in the Kegurator, I always just that you never run out of everyone. Likes, I keep that there and say so.

SPEAKER_04 19:43

You're coaching college, so your Saturday nights are probably full anyway. Uh but big signature win. What is the best way to celebrate? What you like?

SPEAKER_06 19:52

Okay, so I have to tell you, I literally I have like little post-it notes on different bottles of bourbon.

SPEAKER_01 19:58

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_06 19:59

So right now I I just got a CYPB. Oh I got an I got an Elmer T. Lee. Uh, one's gonna say Michigan, one's gonna say Ohio State. I don't know which I haven't put them on yet. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_04 20:11

I like re-designate the the victory.

SPEAKER_01 20:13

I like it.

SPEAKER_04 20:14

Yeah, we might borrow your tradition for this fall.

SPEAKER_06 20:17

I will know which one. Uh and you know, so I'll pick you know, I'll pick the the and especially the home wins, the away wins are a little tougher, but still. Um, I'll always designate a couple of my really good bottles that sit up on the shelf, and I'm like, hey, if we win this game, we're going here. If we win this game, we're opening that one. I get home. And um, I would love a noon game. Can we just get one? I mean, boy, we had one last year and it was at Iowa State. Um, and it was not a good day. Um, but all our home games were afternoon and night games.

SPEAKER_04 20:50

Yeah, so when you were at Western Michigan, did you have you know the 105 kick a lot or not? Or was that even we uh we were 11 a.m.

SPEAKER_06 20:57

and we played we played on Tuesday nights?

SPEAKER_04 20:59

Oh yeah, oh yeah, action, I guess.

SPEAKER_06 21:02

It was crazy, it was the craziest thing ever. Um, but yeah, there were some times when you start playing on in November, you start playing on Tuesday, Wednesday, so you'd have some Saturday nights. Yeah, just didn't watch Paul. But there's nothing like a noon game where you play a game, go home, sit around with your family, watch the end of the 3:30 games, yeah, and then watch the night games, get up, go to work the next day. You spent hours with your family. Everyone's sitting around because people come to town. Sure. When you have a night game, you get home, and it's great to see everybody, but all I'm thinking about is like I got my meetings in like seven hours. And we gotta watch it. You get right back to it. That flip terrible, yeah. It's not it's not as much fun as you think. Uh when it's a night game, even though the it's I mean, Kinnex electric, obviously, at night, and it's a huge advantage. So I'm I'm not arguing with that at all.

SPEAKER_04 21:47

So labeling the bottles of bourbon is a great idea. Um, do you have any superstitions around game days? Um trying to think.

SPEAKER_06 21:57

Not really. I call winning, I call I call them winning behavior. I don't believe in superstition. If I do something and we win, I'll I'll definitely lean on doing it again. Okay. Um, I'm one of those guys that um I came up coaching. I played division one, but I came up coaching division three, division two, I high school division three, division two, division one. Uh so I and I so because of the way I came up, I've called plays for a long time. So I've made a ton of mistakes. It's fun at division three calling plays because you're not on television, so you can try anything you want and you won't get like that. I did some really crazy stuff. Um, and some of it I'd like some of it, I'm like, thank god no one saw that, you know. Um, but it was a good idea on the board, yeah. Yeah, and uh so I I I am I do change my play call sheet all the time, and I'm not talking major changes, but I'm saying I'm always tinkering with just different ways to put this visual thing in front of me with like these 70 to 80 plays in front of me, and I have to pick them in the right order, uh, and you gotta call it at the right time, like just trying to find ways to better organize my thoughts. Um but other than that, there's nothing like there'll be a tendency of wearing like if I wore this tie on the way there, I'll wear it again if we win, I'll keep wearing it until we lose and change it up, you know.

SPEAKER_02 23:14

Yeah, but nothing too crazy. Going back to your play calls, do you actually use analytics during the course of a game?

SPEAKER_06 23:20

Like um, not during the well, I have it, so I have all the numbers on my play call sheet. So, like in on the the banner that's on top of third and two to six, right? And then all my calls. I in that box, I have all the data of what they do. So I have their coverage, their front, their blitzes. Um but like live during the game, no. I have a guy charting me in the back, and I'll be like, What have I done on first down? What have I done on second down? And he'll let me know if I'm getting off kilter, you know. I mean, the goal is to just be unpredictable. Like, so I it's I I mean, if I'm if I'm if I run the ball on second down the whole first quarter, uh, then I can switch it up. It's not a big deal.

SPEAKER_02 24:03

Are you guys in coaches' meetings on Sunday morning?

SPEAKER_06 24:06

Uh yeah, we we watch again.

SPEAKER_02 24:08

So you watch the game, the Saturday game. Do you have somebody feeding you analytics for your next week's game?

SPEAKER_06 24:15

Oh, heck yeah. Yeah. The analysts. That's what the analysts do. They're ahead, they're getting uh, especially with our schedule. I really struggled my first year here uh because we have a unique schedule. I think in 2015, Coach Ferrens kind of blew up their schedule and moved everything around. And uh so our day off, which we have to be the only school in the country that has Thursday as our player's day off, where the it has to be everyone else Sunday or Monday off. Um, so I've always been a big uh Sunday off guy. Other people have been Monday, it doesn't really matter. Um, but here it's Thursday. So Thursday is the day. So we basically uh have them come in. We watch the film in the morning, they come in around noon. We're with the players till about 3:30, and we practice Monday morning at like eight in the morning. So I have from like 3:30 p.m. on Sunday till whenever I go to bed to get a game plan ready to go. And I really first year that was hard because normally you don't practice till Tuesday. So you have all day Monday to put this plan together and watch film and digest it. Um so I went to coach at the end of my first year just begging for analysts, you know. Like I need former offensive coordinators that have done this before. I've been offered when I got let go here at Western, I got offered this job at a bunch of schools. Uh, Penn State wanted me to do it, Georgia wanted me to do it. I ended up going to Green Bay. Um, but I kind of learned how like Georgia in their national championship runs, you know, how they had so Coach Munkin called, he was the first guy who called me when I got fired here. And he's like, dude, you're coming to Georgia. Like you were gonna, you're gonna be my analyst, you know. Um he he's from uh he's from my hometown. He's from Wheaton. Okay, and he he went to a small school around um uh in Park Parkside or Park something. Uh, but it was a small division three school in the Wisconsin, uh, Illinois area. So he called me, he's like, Listen, I'm the only one in major college football that realizes that you won 10 games at Elmhurst College, and that's impossible. He's like, that's impossible. He's like, I'm the only one that knows that, you know, and uh and so he's like you're coming here, and I was like, All right, he's like you'll probably find something better. But he explained to me how they did it at Georgia, and uh obviously he never he wasn't even there the next year. He took the job with the uh Baltimore Ravens, you know, and so as that month went on, I was interviewing for a bunch of jobs and eventually I called him. I was like, I don't think you're gonna be there. He's like, I know you offer me a job, but I keep hearing your name in the NFL, you know. He's like, Yeah, I might not be here. Um, but that's kind of where I learned that from. And so year two, we had analysts, which was huge because they need that I need them in day two to three of watching film because there's a point, like after about 48 hours of watching film where I close my eyes, and it's the only defense I see. I'm like, okay, it's 7, 24, 38, and I can I can point out everybody where they're at, what they do on third down, their favorite blitz. Like it's all it's the only thing in there. Uh, but the problem is we're already done by then, like that. But that's normally on like Tuesday afternoon, and we have one more practice on Wednesday, and we don't see them on Thursday. So uh having these analysts is key because they they're they're way ahead. Last year I had uh Warren Ruggiero who was helping us out, and it'd be so funny because I would turn the film on and I'd see a coverage or a look, and I'm like, oh man, I love this into this look. He goes, You're not gonna like it, wait till you next the next clip, you know. And I turn this clip and they're they they spun the other way, and I'm like, damn it. You know, and uh, but just have this guy who's like a couple a couple days ahead of me, you know. Um, so once Wednesday hits and we have that day off, that's when I start making my play call sheet on my our day off on what on Thursday, and uh that's when they move on to the next pony. So they have Wednesday afternoon, all day Thursday, and all day Friday to get ahead, and then they come back, help us on Saturday, and they kind of give us a get me caught up as fast as you can in four or five hours because we got to put a game plan together tonight on Sunday night, you know.

SPEAKER_04 28:22

Yeah, it doesn't feel like anything around the Iowa football program is random, everything seems to have purpose. What is the reason for the Thursday day off that's cuts against the grain for most places? Do you know?

SPEAKER_06 28:32

I think the biggest thing is you you have a choice of, and I think there's some genius behind it. You have a choice of when do you want to get the kids' bodies back because when you give them the day off on Sunday or even Monday, the idea is that you're gonna get their bodies feeling better so your Tuesday, Wednesday practices could be better, right? Um, and then you have to try to find a way to get their bodies feeling really good for game day. But I can tell you from being a former player, we practice on we had Sundays off, we practiced on Monday night, and then we went Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. Um, like I never felt good till like Wednesday after a game. My body was still hurting, you know. So I think coaches rationale is your body's gonna hurt anyway. So we're gonna we're gonna practice you know, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and then from Wednesday, you're done. Like you're off Thursday. Friday, we just come in and throw the ball around, no one touches each other. Uh the idea is to get them feeling great on Saturday, yeah. Right? So so it's just a it's just recovery. Yeah, it's like, do you want to feel good so you can go hit again in practice? Or do you want to just go and you're probably not gonna feel great, or just let's get used to you're not gonna feel great on Monday. We're gonna go anyway, we're gonna push through Tuesday and Wednesday. But man, Saturday, you're gonna feel like a million bucks, man. I mean, you are gonna have you will not have done anything for almost three days other than jog around a little bit, and you'll be really ready to fly around. And obviously, I think they did it in 2015, and it's been it makes it really just hard on the coaches. The players love it. If coach ever brought it up, they would look at him like because they love feeling great on Saturdays, sure. Makes sense. That's the biggest thing.

SPEAKER_02 30:14

Yeah, would you be surprised if the reason you had Thursday is off is because that's the day that uh Kirk had to clean the pool or something. Well, you know, Mary had him doing his honeydew list before the weekend.

SPEAKER_06 30:27

Mary's the boss. So if she wants us to have Thursday off, then right. That's when they have it off.

SPEAKER_02 30:33

That's what happens. You know, a lot of times you watch the the you know the um combines and things like that, and um the talking heads will say the Iowa program is ran like a pro program, you know, the the players are locked into that. We got you from the Packers. Would you say that's pretty true the way that the Hawkeyes are ran?

SPEAKER_06 30:54

I do, and I the the very unique part is just the expectation of like showing up to work, right? I mean, like the standard is so strong, um that and there's really no wavering off of it, you know, which is you know, guy if guys aren't gonna make it, they're not gonna make it, you know, and so it's so it's just unbelievable the percentage of people that graduate from here that all have that same work ethic. It's the only way to make it through.

SPEAKER_02 31:23

That's the culture, they hold they kind of hold each other accountable, right?

SPEAKER_06 31:26

The players hold the players accountable 100. And people are asking me, like, what am I doing here? Like, this is the best time because they're they're practicing. I mean, it's play, I mean, they're they're going against each other right now, but they're they're having to lead each other, they're having to coach each other, they're having to figure out the huddle without me there. If I'm in town, I'll go stand on the sideline, but I'm not going in there. In fact, I go there, I just heckle from the sideline and you know scream at the car, like I sit off the side because this is their time to create some sort of identity, you know, without us being around, because in August we're gonna be at everything, I'll be in their face all the time. Um, so yeah, it's a really cool and the other the the ironic part about it, as I've learned, because I'm only going in year three now. Um, when coach set out to put and he's he could not have done a better job of doing what he set out to do, he said, My goal is to just build like the greatest high school football program ever. And that's exactly what we are. I mean, like when you talk about I think about my high school career, like I played for a legendary coach, John Thorne, uh who's in every hall of fame and just a great human being. And like we would we would do anything for that guy. Like that your high school football coach, man. You would you would kill for him. You know what I mean? And and you don't in our transactional game right now, there's not a lot of that, right? Right. But uh you know, coach, like they I mean, our guys they come to play for coach. And I I I went into his office and there are a couple games every year that when he's standing in front of the team, he's the most respectful person ever.

SPEAKER_00 33:05

Yep.

SPEAKER_06 33:06

Um and like if if the team that we're facing has done anything, and he he even hints that he didn't appreciate something that they did towards us, yeah, we kill him. Yeah, we kill him. And I'm driving his office and like, coach, can you find? I go, have you ever heard when Michael Jordan like when he got he would get mad at every team he played? He would find a way, yeah, and he would he would kill you, and then he'd be fine, he'd be normal after the game. But he went in his own brain, manufacturer, yes, right? Yeah, so I asked him, I said, Can you find a way to hate every team we play? Because you only did it a couple times, and we killed those two teams. And then then when you were, you know, all they're doing a great job, they're playing really hard for this coach, and we almost lost the game. We shouldn't have lost. We should have actually blown that team out, but uh, because these guys play for them. I mean, it's a really it's a such a unique um thing to watch, you know, because that they all they all just like a high school coach, yeah, like no one wants to let him down. No one, no one in the building, coaches, players, uh staff. It's a really, really unique thing.

SPEAKER_02 34:15

When's the first time you bumped into Kirk?

SPEAKER_06 34:18

Ah uh, my first day of the job. I actually interviewed for the job sitting right here. I was right in this seat. No kidding.

unknown 34:27

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 34:28

This is where you know I did my whole interview in this seat with the same backdrop.

SPEAKER_02 34:32

Uh you never you didn't play Iowa, did you? I know we get Mac teams every once in a while.

SPEAKER_06 34:38

We played you in two. I was on the sideline in 2000. Uh I but I graduated in '99. I came back to watch that game. And uh we beat, we actually beat you guys. Right. Um, and and then I heard did we beat you in 07 too? I think 2007, we might have been. I wasn't there for that one.

SPEAKER_02 34:55

I will tell you, you guys have the nicest fans that they they are the best fans, they were kind, they were courteous, they were they helped us through that loss pretty good.

SPEAKER_06 35:07

We we had her we had a rolling pretty good. We went to the championship in '99 and then 2000 as well. And uh, and so we had offensively, we were clicking pretty good, and we we were able to keep you guys from getting going offensively, which was but it was my first time on the side. Well, it wasn't my first time on the sideline, it was actually my like third time on the sideline because I had come and visited Matt Bowen a couple times, okay. And we snuck into Kinnew. There was a place on the fence that you could bend it back. Now, this is 1997, right? Okay, and you could sneak in and we would be out there, we're like under the moonlight, right? Like playing catch. So that was actually not my first time in Kinneck. Uh it was my it was my second or third, but uh I said when I came here that the highlight of when I came to visit my sister went to school at Iowa, is the only connection I had to Iowa. Uh I knew Coach, of course, but then randomly he called me for this job. Um, but was when I went to visit my sister and Matt Bowen, uh, I met Timmy Dwight, which was like the coolest thing ever. I'm like, oh my god. Like I shook his hand and pretty cool deal. Pretty cool deal.

SPEAKER_02 36:09

My uh oldest is uh place kicker, and um he we've had season tickets at Iowa since 1976. So he you know he used to take bottles in the north end zone section 136 road, yeah, yeah, um, and so we were going up to Detroit, and um, he was a senior in high school, and your western Michigan was right there, and so let's see if we could sneak in. I mean, we're gonna try to sneak in. We got there, and the like the gates were wide open, always just like wide open. I said, You want to try to kick on these? Yeah, I mean, it was not there was no bending fence or nothing, and we could have driven the car down there.

SPEAKER_06 36:49

Well, I have a story I can't tell you about that, but we were trying to get better security, uh, but it's a nice stadium. It is great stadium, yeah. It's like built built into the hill, right? And uh, and I was lucky I played in the time right before sports became like super super duper mainstream where everything was on TV. So we sold out my junior in my senior year, we sold out every game, and that place with 35,000 people in it was rocking, yeah. Um, and now you can watch because you couldn't watch any other game, like as long as we weren't on when Notre Dame or Michigan was on, like they played at night, or if they played during the day and we had a night game, that place was rocking. And now it's really hard to compete just because you can watch every game. I tell my wife sometimes when when I was the head coach of Western Michigan, and it was like four degrees on a Tuesday night. I'm like, honey, stay at home. Watch it, watch it on TV. Or if I you know you can watch four games in a row, they can have all on your screen and watch them. So um, that's why it's just remarkable, remarkable what you know, what Kinneck is like. I mean, it's still it's kind of it reminds me of Green Bay. I don't know if you guys are Packer fans, but it reminds me of Lambeau. I mean, just no, it is it is a part of the community, it's one of the coolest things that I've uh I've seen.

SPEAKER_02 38:09

Park in the neighborhoods, get vendors, yeah, right outside the yeah, no, it's it's very similar. Very pretty special place.

SPEAKER_04 38:17

Uh, what venue in the Big Ten has the crappiest visitors' facilities? Ooh, crappiest, crappiest. They're probably all pretty well improved by now, but yeah, they really are. Uh, I mean, I am a terrible box where you have a terrible view from your perspective or anything.

SPEAKER_06 38:33

Uh good question. Uh yeah, I'm up there. I mean, I was scared to death for a guy who when I I my mom cheerleaded at uh Wisconsin. Uh so I wanted to go to Wisconsin so bad coming out. I had offers from everyone in the country other than Wisconsin before I blew my knee out, and uh, but I was trying to get that offer so bad. So I my first game in Camp Randall ever was this year, and I couldn't wait to see the jump around. Yeah, yeah. I guess I never thought of the engineering of the press box because it scared the shit because the thing sways now. When I when they say it sways, like I grabbed onto Warren and I'm like, we're going down, but I was just so excited. Like I'm kind of sitting up, we're playing well, and and all of a sudden they start going, and then I just was not ready for the yeah, it's it's this way, it swayed a heck of a lot more than I thought it was going to. Um, but those facilities, those facilities were okay. I can't think of one that stands out. I I heard I heard Wrigley's horrible. I can tell you that. I've never been to it. They're trying to play a football game. Oh, I bet yeah, baseball stadium, and you have to go to be on the same side, and all the stuff they're trying to do. It's just just miserable.

SPEAKER_02 39:46

I can tell you terrible to watch a game there. I can tell you that football game. I think for once I was not gonna have a home field advantage at Northwestern anymore, but they had to get it down to like what two 20,000 seats or whatever it's gonna be.

SPEAKER_06 39:58

I'm I'm excited to see that place. Yeah, they're building it down into the ground. Yeah, so it's gonna be down, it's gonna be covered to try to keep the sound in, and uh they're trying to make it like an an advantage, yeah. Yeah, good for them, you know, they should.

SPEAKER_02 40:16

So we uh there's a lot of times it's that Iowa travels well enough that it's uh even though we're the visitors, we've had home field advantage.

SPEAKER_06 40:24

Well, that's another thing that makes you a lot like Green Bay. I mean, it's it's the same way. We try everywhere we played, there was just as much G's in the stands as whoever the heck else we played. I remember what there's it's amazing watching some of the LA teams having to have silent cadence at home, yeah, at home, using their silent cadence. I was like, because that's a pain in the butt with all this motion and stuff, like going out going the whole silent cadence thing, ain't easy, it just adds another layer to executing every single play.

SPEAKER_04 40:54

Sure.

SPEAKER_06 40:54

So being being at home and watching those poor offenses on the other side deal with the fans of Kinneck is just hilarious to me. I love it. Uh, and we don't have any issue because they're smart enough not to scream when we're going. Um, but like when I can't imagine having to do a silent case at home, which the Rams have to do a lot.

SPEAKER_02 41:16

Do you know who Hat Peterson is? Uh, I know the name former Iowa Hawkeye. He 19. He's on the 85 Hawkeyes, got uh went the Rose Bowl. Um, back then, if you were a loud crowd, you could get a penalty called on you. Oh, yeah, I told us that's all right. And we so yeah, yeah. So if you're too loud and the quarterback couldn't hear, this is when Iowa beat Michigan at Iowa, and we had a penalty called on us two weeks later. We went up to Minnesota, so we were the visitors, and Iowa got a penalty called penalty game because we had so many Iowa fans up in Minnesota.

SPEAKER_04 41:51

That sounds about right, but it's that's one question I wanted to make sure we got in with you. You name trick plays after local establishments, correct?

SPEAKER_06 42:04

Yeah, well, I just you know, I've I've always run a lot of trick plays. Year one, I didn't run as many. Year two, I started getting more comfortable. Year three will continue it. Um, and so my when I was when I got here, my family didn't move until the summer, and so uh I went to Wigan Penn almost every night. I mean, I love pizza, I'm from Chicago, yeah, it's my vibe in there. Chris is unbelievable.

SPEAKER_04 42:32

Um it's like we've logged a lot of time.

SPEAKER_06 42:35

That yes, that is my spot, right? And that's where they talk about Hilltop all the time. And uh so I called the one, the one we ran in the bowl game this year. We called a wig and pen. Uh, we had a Stella that hit.

SPEAKER_01 42:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 42:50

And normally now it now it's kind of become a thing where whoever the star of the show is, meaning who whatever receiver through gets to throw the ball, or whatever it is, I'll be like, Hey, what's your favorite place? Okay, good. We have we have a brothers coming. Okay, um, we have an airliner. We have an airliner too.

SPEAKER_04 43:12

Betting. It's breaking news here.

SPEAKER_06 43:15

It's just it's kind of fun.

SPEAKER_04 43:16

Now, is that new that you just started a couple years ago at Iowa, or did you do that other places along the way?

SPEAKER_06 43:20

No, no, I just did it here. I forget someone someone mentioned it because you're always looking for cool names. A lot of times you you'll you'll take a name from the team you stole it from, right? Like, oh, uh Philly Philly, which was Stella, who was basically our version of Philly Philly, which the Philadelphia Eagles ran in the Super Bowl. But that's when we were like, Well, let's let's find let's have fun with this thing. You know, and so uh so we've been we've been doing it, and we're I think we've called two of them. I think I called one that didn't work and two have hit. So it's okay. Yeah, well, we have we have now we have a new flying tomato, which is uh It's a descendant of Wigan Penn. It's on the menu.

SPEAKER_04 44:03

Something to look for.

SPEAKER_06 44:04

It's not exactly the same, but very, very similar. Okay. We kept it under the same roof.

SPEAKER_02 44:11

The Flying Smater, are you like throwing a place kicker over the offensive line?

SPEAKER_06 44:21

Yeah, it was kind of a fun thing we did, and the kids liked it. Sure. And I didn't really think it was gonna get. I mean, I forget it when we ran it. Like the kids, right? They go to the media right afterwards, and they can't wait to tell them that the play. And um, and so I would say it's a fun thing. I think Stella enjoyed it, and I think Wigan Pet enjoyed it because those two hit.

SPEAKER_01 44:41

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 44:42

And the funny thing is when they don't work, no one says the name of them, right? Right, for sure. Right. So that's a good thing. That's a good thing.

SPEAKER_04 44:50

What's your go-to at Wig and Pen? Are you flying tomato or what is your I'm a I'm a thin crust.

SPEAKER_06 44:55

Okay, yeah, even though you're a thin crust, it's like crispy, it's so dang good. I actually on Thursday, which is our day off, not it's the player's day off. We work. Uh, we have a meeting in the morning, and then I put my game plan together, but I take all my guys there for lunch every Thursday. Oh nice, all my analysts, all my G. We we take there's no one in the place at about three o'clock or two: thirty on Thursdays, and we just sit right across the front, and everyone gets a small thin crust pizza or whatever they want. And because those guys do a lot of work breaking film down all week long, and uh, so Thursday's kind of my day that I take. I call them the pit crew.

SPEAKER_01 45:32

There you go.

SPEAKER_06 45:32

It's like one of those big rooms that has like a bunch of computer setups where all the GAs and QCs all day work and they're in there all the time grinding. So I take the pit crew to Wig and Pen every Thursday. It's kind of that's great.

SPEAKER_02 45:44

Yes, so um, I know there's been a lot of uh chasm between Hayden and Kirk and you calling this now, but are there any Iowa Hawkeyes that are still kind of loosely associated with the program, like from the Hayden years? Like Don Patterson or anybody?

SPEAKER_06 46:03

Don Patterson, he comes to practice. I don't know, every couple weeks I see him, you know, and he he loves numbers. I don't know. I mean, I met Coach Patterson a couple times, he's he swings by the office a couple times a year. Yeah, um, talk about it, talking about the numbers. Like he he brings in his own analytics, right? And it is by the way, he he's got the greatest penmanship of any human being I've ever seen. Really? Really? It's all handwritten. If you saw it, you wouldn't believe it. It's are you but man, he loves numbers, yeah. And whatever he's digging into anything he thinks he can find, whether it's whether you whether you take the ball, whether you take the wind, like he is diving into every single thing uh to try to give us an advantage. And if he thinks he has it, he'll bring it in. Yeah, it's all written and he'll make a copy for uh for me, for coach, and for uh Phil. And and if he doesn't find anything, then he'll you know we'll we'll get we'll just get one every like month from him, you know, when he comes by. Uh but it's you know, as a math guy, like I appreciate it because like yeah, you know, sometimes it's far-fetched, the numbers aren't anything crazy. Um but I did, I did the he he's trying to do something I did at Elmer's College when I was there, which I I looked, I took it, did a five-year study of just our conference games, and I wanted to know what stat was the most important stat to win to win the game. And I was shocked. Obviously, there's obvious ones like turnovers and uh stuff like that. But those things were all up in the like low 80s. There was one stat that was 97 win, and it was yards per completion, meaning don't worry about going nine for 10 and throw nine five-yard hitches for 45 yards, go four for 10 and throw four 80-yard bombs for touchdowns and throw for 320. Like, don't worry so much about completion percentage because even those triple option teams in our league, when they hit the big one, is really when they won games. The passing teams would hit the big one too, right? Um, so I was really amazed. I had to check my numbers 800 times, and that was the number one stat. And so we I did, I changed this as early. What was this 2010? Maybe I did this, and it was the CCIW College Conference of Illinois, Wisconsin. August Anna's in it down the road, and Wheaton in North Central, obviously, was the big dog in the conference. Um, but you know, he's kind of trying to do the same thing in the Big Ten, you know, and now you got Oregon, and you got just trying to find any small little advantage.

SPEAKER_02 48:43

That's a that's a I'm sure you've seen that coaching tree of the Hayden Fry years, all the coaches that were there. Oh, yeah, you know, and early on, everybody just thinks they were always amazing, but they weren't. They were dealing with some athletes that were kind of like I don't want to say mid-level, but they you know, they didn't have the Michigan and Ohio State and Michigan State people, and anything those coaches could figure out that would give them advantage, or at least make the players think they had an advantage, they really worked that, and each one of those coaches had their own little thing, and those years. I mean, that's why the locker room's pink. I mean, Hayden was a psychology professor, and he just you know, every little thing that that you could tell your players we've got this on them, and so yeah, some of those guys are still pretty interesting. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 49:30

Well, you got Tom Moore back in the building now, too, right? Yes, how's that?

SPEAKER_06 49:34

He's he's a senior analyst, it's awesome. Like he's forgotten he's forgotten more football than I was gonna say, senior senior analyst.

SPEAKER_04 49:40

He's got a couple years in her spill.

SPEAKER_06 49:42

Yeah, so I I have his in my quarterback room, I have his sayings on the wall, you know. It's like one, two, three, throw the M blah blah blah blah away. And time then it says Tom Moore, and then over here it says there's a completion out there somewhere, it's up to you to find it, Tom Moore, you know, and now he sits in the room with me, which is so weird. And like I I get I've had your assignment here for two years, you know. Yeah, um, so what an advantage, like you know, to have the one thing I think coach does an unbelievable job of is and it takes a while to get it through everyone's head because everyone thinks there's shortcuts, like that there's some magic pill you're gonna take that's gonna make you lose weight or get stronger and all that stuff, and there's really none. And as soon as you get it through your head, like the consistency of your work is really your superpower if you decide to use it. Um, so he he always tells them there's only one shortcut, and that is find someone who's an expert at it and listen. Like that's the only shortcut, the only way for you to like skip a couple steps along the way is you can find someone that's really good at it and learn from them, and maybe you will not make some of the mistakes they made, and you'll get to move along faster, you know. Uh, so having Tom Moore in the building right now for me is like having having a master sitting in the room, you know, but like Tom, what would you have done here? And he, I mean, he is sharp as as ever, uh-huh. And and the stories are just like, I mean, he can't help it, he just drops names, and I have to pick up my jaw off the ground every time. And uh, and so it's just such an amazing, you know, there's a play that everybody runs, that everyone called it Indy, Colt, uh Dallas, Clark, Manning, like, but most people call it Indy and Colt. And it's just a three-man concept, double under, uh, with a corner out. We call that Colt. Um, but everyone calls it that because Peyton Manning and Dallas, like that crew ran that play, no one had ever seen it. It has a lot of good answers. You can adjust the call like at the line of scrimmage. So it's it's been such a like 25 years a play that everybody runs because of him. And my first question was, What made how'd you come up with that? You know, and like his answer was amazing to me because he was like, Well, I was the offensive coordinator at um at the Lions, and I had a big lefty quarterback named Scott Mitchell. I'm like, I remember Scott Mitchell, and he's like, That guy could not throw triple slant, he couldn't do it, you know. Uh, he could not from underneath center take a three-step drop and throw triple slant. And and we're not very good at triple slant either. So I'm like, I don't call plays that I don't that we can't execute very well, you know. And uh he's like, So we came up with that play, which is pro it's pretty much like triple slant, but it's instead of like three-step slant, it's a five-yard under, which allowed him to get back total five, you know, to five yards and throw it to Herman Moore, and you know, and and obviously he had Barry Sanders back there in the backfield. But uh just amazing to hear like the why behind all these things. That I've I assumed he came up with it when he was in indie, but no, he came up with it when he was in Detroit because Scott Mitchell couldn't take a three-step drop and complete triple slant. So he came came up with this play, so it could be a five-step version of the same play, and then when he took it to indie, it blew up and it's now a famous play that everybody runs. And so the the fact that that guy's in the building is like what a yeah, what a joy.

SPEAKER_04 53:16

It's awesome. So what are um you've probably alluded to some of them already? Always interested to hear what are some of influencers' resources you look to for leadership, culture, uh, stuff like that.

SPEAKER_06 53:29

My boss, number one, yeah, right. I mean, I've learned more about um just how to handle things, like his temperament is like one of a kind. Um I I do believe people have superpowers, right? And I always tell people he has a very his superpower is very clear. Sorry, my dogs are barking.

SPEAKER_04 53:50

Hey guys, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_06 53:52

Uh hey guys, calm down.

SPEAKER_04 53:54

Um, you want to see yeah, you get my camera? Oh, yeah, why not? Yeah, this is over here. A couple of big ones.

SPEAKER_06 54:06

He's a big deep.

SPEAKER_05 54:09

Hey, here, okay, we're gonna let you out. Go. Good luck.

SPEAKER_06 54:12

See you later, guys. Take take the hair outside. Yeah, they got the they got the collar on, right? Uh yeah, the little one's like five years old, and the big one's like a year and two months, and he's just a huge idiot. He just can't, he can't, he has no control over his body, he just runs into things, you know. Um, but anyway, back to coach. So yeah, like it's it's um like his superpower has been so clear to me in my two years because I'm I'm by far the young guy on the staff, the new guy, not the young guy, the new guy, right? Um, but he can make anything simple. Like he can make the most complicated things, which I mean, people want you to think everything's complicated, right? There's NIL, there's Rev share, there's new rules, there's all kinds of new things, there's agents, and and he'll listen to, and this happens daily, and this can happen halftime of a game, but he'll listen to like a an hour and 25 minute speech from our uh you know people about this new NCAA rule, and he'll sit up at the end and be like, so we can't do this, and we can't do that, and they'll be like, Well, pretty much, yeah. I'm like, okay, good. And I'm like, Wow, that took him 10 seconds to explain that, and we just spent an hour and 25 minutes, and he just has an unbelievable knack of cutting through all the BS. And and and I think with like our guys, like with these cell phones and uh with all the stuff that's uh moving and changing, and they love you one day, they hate you the next day. Like his consistency is it's refreshing for me. It's fun to go to work for him every day. Um, but I'm learning a ton from him, and then like he does a good job of helping us. Like, you know, obviously I got Tom Moore in the bill. I read his book, was it two years ago? Um, but could we have a different book we read every every year, you know? And then I have a couple that I'm choosing, I choose to read. So um, so you know, I I really spring break is like how many books can I read on a hopefully on a chair somewhere sunny and warm.

SPEAKER_00 56:16

You know?

SPEAKER_06 56:17

Uh and so, and then really I don't really read a lot during this time of year. I'm pretty much I get up in the morning, I study football. Like every every morning for this morning. I was, you know, I had a Zoom call with a couple coaches this morning going through some of our specialty and our two-point plays, the ideas and film I've been watching. And uh I watched BYU this morning. They're the new D coordinator, Michigan wasn't at BYU last year. So I watched a couple of their games last year, and um, so we got some. So I this I love just coming. I got sitting out of the lake in the morning with coffee and watching football till about noon. Yeah, and then uh it's it's a great, it's a it's a great day. Hold on, I'm gonna let my dogs in.

SPEAKER_04 56:58

Yeah, but what is something as a you know, the lay fan in the stands? You know, everyone tends to just follow the ball, right, when they watch the game. What is like something basic that of a fan can watch, like pre-snap, just to give a little better insight and be a better educated fan? Ooh.

SPEAKER_06 57:16

Well, I would have to give you an indicator, but I would tell you uh one of the things I could tell like the layman fan is if you watch defenses and they play what we call shell coverage, meaning two safeties. Yep, there's two safeties back. Um just for their own knowledge, like if they play with two safeties, in theory, it's it's a shell coverage defense. You should be able to run the ball against that, okay, like numbers-wise, just the math behind it is you should be able to run the ball against shell coverage. Yeah, um, if you see one safety back there, so if you look back there and there's one, they're technically loading the box, right? They are trying to outnumber you in the box, and you should have to throw the ball. Now, that's why if you I love the interview with one of the DB, uh God, he might have been the Ellen White kid at uh Seattle when they won the Super Bowl, right after on the field. He's like, and this is the DB talking about how good their D line is. He's like, when you can play shell coverage and stop the run, it's fun playing defense, which is I would argue that Phil Parker does it. He plays two high safeties and they stop the run. And if you can do that, you're in you're in for a long day. You're for a long day. Um, so that's the that's one of the main keys. You just look out there and see, say, this is a two, it's gonna be harder to throw it, should be easier to run it. It's one, it should be harder to run it, and you should be able to throw it, you know. Just to figure out like who's playing well, you know. I think I one would love to play two chill defense to stop the run. If you can do that, you're gonna win the game, probably.

SPEAKER_04 58:53

All right, I think even Brad can process that after the game. Yeah, one or two.

SPEAKER_06 58:57

Is there one safety or two? Yeah, I figured that'd be a simple one, you know.

SPEAKER_04 59:00

That's super all right. Well, really quick. Um, you got a story or two from your experience in the XFL? I've heard that was kind of like minor league baseball on steroids, or yeah, it was like the OG.

SPEAKER_06 59:12

It was the original, the very first year of it, you know, and I got to play in the very first game of it, and uh it was wild. It was like the true mix of um what they wanted, what Vince McMahon wanted. Uh, the true mix of like WWF fans and football fans, right? So we played at the Citrus Bowl down in Orlando first game. Um, late like fast forward 10 years, I'm coaching and I was recruiting a player whose parents worked at that game and said they sold more beer in the first half of that XFL game than they'd ever sold at the Citrus Bowl in four quarters. Uh and I and I believe it, and I believe it because it was the rowdiest. Like uh there was so many the commotion in the stands, and there was, I mean, there was all kinds of like the stands was its own show, you know, and you turn around and there's either someone taking their clothes off or a fight, one or the other, or both all together, or both, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:13

First step fighting, take your clothes off, yeah, right.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:18

So it was just such a wild um, and then we're playing a game out there, too, by the way. You know, yeah, right.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:24

There's football going on in the middle of it all.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:26

I was the quarterback for the Chicago team, and uh Jeff Brahm was the quarterback for uh for the Orlando team, and it was a great game. I think we lost 17-14 or something like that. Um, but yeah, it was such a wild, just such a wild thing. And and I I still think there is a need for minor league football to develop these, some guys that aren't ready or that, you know. I mean, I would just wish it used to be the world league, they're trying to make it the XFL. Um I just I just don't know what the what the answer is. They're trying, you know, just find a way to give these guys and to give the teams just somewhere to go if you have injuries and you need to go grab somebody, like it'd be awesome to have like they have in hockey and baseball and basketball, and they have it in every other league.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:18

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:19

So I'm hoping they continue to find ways to just keep developing the sport, sure. You know, so but yeah, it was it was a fun. It was it was it was a lot of fun to be the first time. There's a 30 for 30 on the XFL where they talk about the beginning and end of it. And uh I played in my favorite game in the XFL was I don't know, it was like our fourth game. The so it was it was it was a Saturday night game against LA out in LA. It was a great game, triple overtime. It was a thriller. Um, but I guess Eber, Eber Saul, I think he was the NBC guy, and McMahon was the and they were getting along great up to that point. Everything was all good until our XFL game went to overtime. Okay, and uh J Lo was supposed to be on Saturday Night Live. Oh J Lo didn't want to wait, and that was basically the beginning and the end of the XFL week four, like eight weeks ago, and I didn't even like it was just a great game, and and they kept the game on and J Lo. I guess the moral of the story is don't piss off J Lo.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:24

Yeah, J Lo didn't realize that Tim Lester was in prime time here.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:29

Okay, we're playing a game here, uh, and she didn't want to wait in New York, and I guess she did have to wait, or I don't know how it all went down, but it the 30 I didn't find out till 15 years, 20 years later when you watch this thing, you're like, So that was the game, that was the beginning of the riff between the two head guys, and then it just spiraled by the end of the year. It was it was a mess, but so up to that point it was going pretty good, I thought.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:54

Yeah, well, I heard you say in an interview once that you let as a player you like to get hit like early in a game, or you'd even like pre-game get hit. Full disclosure, before we did this pod earlier today, I was watching a little YouTube of you playing in the XFL, and I was wondering, did you get that out of your system? Like the first five minutes, a couple of those games, because it didn't look like you had a ton of blocking going on in front of you.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:14

No, yeah, I didn't have a ton of time, and and uh, but yeah, you you just that's the one thing it's so funny you say that because I when I'm talking, I I recruit quarterbacks. Oh, there's my dog again, and uh what the only person that doesn't watch the ball when the quarterback throws it is the quarterback's mom. So in person no one no one has a clue how often the quarterback gets hit. I mean, gets smoked sometimes. Mark made a throw at the end of the Michigan State game where he got smoked. I mean, it was helmet to helmet, and it was the it was a completion, he got rid of it. It was like a plus plus plus throw because he knew he was gonna get killed. He followed through on his front foot, he completed the ball. Uh, as a former quarterback, I was like, that was the best play of the game, even though it was a five-yard game because we we kept the chains moving, and but you were talking about everyone follows the ball. Uh, but the the quarterback's mom's quarterback. Yeah, and I always tell the quarterbacks, we're like, like we're we have to be tough, like we have to be like, but we're more like Rocky, you know. We just take the beating the whole game that keeps getting up, yeah. Like that's how we show our toughness. Like, we're not, although Mark would actually run people over. That was like great. I've ever had a 235-pound quarterback that liked hitting people, but the rest of us just the willingness to hang in there and finish the play, knowing you're just gonna get smoked, you know. Uh, and I played back when you got three steps. Now you've one step and they call penalty. Yeah, um, but back in the day, they could after you threw it, if they were within three steps of you, it was fair game. Yeah, so it was it was I definitely got hit in the head way too many times.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:55

All right, you got it. All right. Uh, as mentioned, you were the uh for 41st pick overall to the Chicago Enforcers in the XFL. Tonight's game is called He Hate Me. Well NFL where jerseys were almost displayed by a player's surname. The XFLs told the players they put virtually anything they wanted to on the back of their jerseys as long as the league approved it. Some players stuck with their real names because they wanted to be taken seriously or hope they'd get a shot at the NFL. Others embraced the opportunity to create a persona. The most famous example was Rod Smart, whose jersey famously said he hates me on the back of Jersey.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:40

Before we start the game, did you contemplate a different name or did you just stick with it?

SPEAKER_06 1:05:44

No, but yeah, I just it was just Lester. Our whole team kind of decided to do that, and yeah, but it was such a big hit after week one that the league actually came through and like demanded do it that we had two guys. That we had to have at least two players. So Aaron Humphreys, who was the linebacker, I want to say he was from Indiana, he became a train. Yeah. And was someone, but like our head coach had to stand in front of us and say, like, we need to we need to have two people do it. So who has to do it? Because it was so so hot on those other teams.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:20

What if you would have got a little taste of that jersey sale? Then you would you have been on?

SPEAKER_04 1:06:25

I don't know. After the Saturday night game, you should have just changed it to T-Lo.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:29

Right? All right, go ahead, Ray. I didn't mean to hijack you. All right. So in today's game, I'm gonna read six names that may or may not have been on the back of an XFL jersey. Tim, you need to tell me which three names are made up and which three names were actually appeared on the back of XFL jerseys. I'll read through them one time, and then on the second pass, you can tell me whether or not they were real. Are you ready for the challenge?

SPEAKER_06 1:06:55

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:55

All right, so I'll read through these Shake and Bake, Chuck Wagon, Death Blow, Sackman, D-Day, and Crush Town. So the first one, Shake and Bake, was that real or made up? Real. I made that up.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:20

All right. Sounds like a great receiver, though. You probably don't like it right on your team.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:24

You mean Shake and Bake, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:25

Alright, so the second one, Chuck Wagon?

SPEAKER_06 1:07:29

No, fake.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:31

Chuck Wagon belonged to Chris Chuckamois of the Los Angeles Outlaws. Oh, there you go. LA. So the third one?

SPEAKER_06 1:07:41

Wait, wait, Los Angeles Outlaws? That was the that's the name of Los Vegas.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:45

Uh Las Vegas. I'm sorry, Las Vegas Outlaws. I apologize. Back check. I think you got back checked on the flag. Deathblow. Was Deathblow a real name or a made up? Yeah, I think that's made up. Deathblow belonged to Jamal Duff also from Los Angeles Extreme.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:04

They let them put death on the back of his jersey.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:07

They proved that.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:08

You didn't see the bigger jersey on top of you.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:15

Okay, I'm over. All right. Sackman. There's gotta be a sack man out there, right? I made Sackman up. Oh, you gotta be kidding. I left it out that too.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:24

I'm over four.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:26

Sometimes I paid attention. All right. Uh D-Day.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:31

Do you think this is a animal house callback?

SPEAKER_06 1:08:34

D Day's gotta be it's gotta be real, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:37

D-Day belonged to Danelle Day of the Los Angeles Extreme. So you got that one right. And if you're keeping track at home, you'll know the answer to this. But Crush Town, was that real or made up? I would assume that would be made up. That was made up. I made that up in my mushy brain. All right. You survived.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:57

That's not great. No, that's all right, though.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:02

They were well constructed, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:04

Hey, you're gonna let us take you out to uh Georgia's for a hamburger and a beer, right?

SPEAKER_06 1:09:09

Yeah, where is George's at? Tell me about it.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:11

It's uh it's by the Webster if you know where the Webster is, or Bluebird.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:15

Oh, I know I do know where the Webster is.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:17

Yes, yeah, it's right next door to the Webster. Okay, very historic Iowa City establishment.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:22

I don't go downtown too often. Obviously, that's like the players, that's their space.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:27

Yeah, well, this is a couple blocks off Broadway, so you won't run into players there.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:30

No, no, you don't, but you might run into like somebody that's wanting to pull its surprise, and it's yeah, kind of it's a writer's workshop, yeah. Yeah, Georgia's got its um out liquor license like four days after prohibition, so it's been around a bit.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:45

Oh wow, I know sounds like my kind of place.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:48

And just a pro tip uh the rumor is that coach likes St. Pauli girl after a big win. So if you're looking for a gift for the boss someday, okay, right, okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:58

I'm hoping I'm hoping in the spirit of like the winning, uh, the winning celebration. I'm hoping you've got a a big pad of uh sticky nose to be putting on your bourbon.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:10

That's the plan.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:11

So these these guys they claim they like bourbon, but you know what they drink before an Iowa game? Melort. They drink you you can't go to the game until the bottle of malort's gone, and that's the god's honest truth.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:28

I I never had Melort till I lived in Green Bay, yeah, and really thing at this great bar called Ticks. Okay, like the Melort job was like the it's like you only had to do it if you lost the game. It was so bad. Some of the Melort stuff online of people's faces when they take that that stuff is the funniest stuff I've ever seen. I think John.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:51

Long before your time, uh, the Iowa offense was struggling a little bit. We're on a losing streak and we played at Northwestern, and our tailgating group went to the game and we stumbled into a bar and thought, you know what, we should drink that bottle of Melord as a slump buster. We did it, the offense blew up, the Hawks won the game, and so what do you do? We're a little superstitious.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:08

Winning behaviors winning winning behaviors.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:12

Winning behavior is to get hit by Malort before you go.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:16

Yeah, if you got a game you you must win, give these guys a calm. Tell them that's two bottles of Melord for Michigan. I'll send I will send you some Melord.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:23

I promise you. Tim, thanks so much for your time, man. We really appreciate it. We know how valuable it is this time of year for you. So thanks. Thanks.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:30

It was great hanging out with you guys. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:32

Awesome. Thanks. Have a great night. Enjoy the vacation. Take care.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:34

Hey boys, you got all your systems? We do. All right. Thank you everybody for joining us this weekend. Make sure that you like and subscribe and don't uh miss any new content. Just a heads up. We're um going to be taking a couple weeks off for vacation, but when we come back, we're gonna have another great guest right out of the chute. So um something to look forward to. If you want to talk to the deep dive divers, other people that listen to the deep dive podcast, you can supplement your material by joining our deep dive podcast group on Facebook. Tell then to a couple weeks. Bye bye.