Archbishop Fulton Sheen: Treasure in Clay

In today's episode, we're exploring the life and legacy of Archbishop Fulton Sheen — one of the most influential Catholic voices of the 20th century. 

This is the story of a boy from rural Illinois who became a household name, reaching millions through his mastery of modern media — all while remaining grounded in a deeply spiritual life.

If you’ve ever wondered how extraordinary people got their start — and how you can too — this podcast is your front-row seat to be inspired by a life and a legacy that were built to last.

Transcript

A Humble Parish And First Test

SPEAKER_00 0:06

On my return from Europe, in response to the come home letter of my bishop, I was appointed to a parish where the streets were unpaved. In that part of the city which was called the Lower End, and from which the well to do had left for other parts of the city. I began preaching a Lenten course, and this poor church which was looked down on by the other parishes on the hill, soon became crowded. Some of the pastors later forbade their congregations to go down to the lower end where that young priest is preaching. Stay in your own parish. As far as I could tell, this was to be my life. I was intellectually bent, loved teaching, but now I was an assistant in a parish. Editorials appeared in the newspapers against the bishop. Why does he waste talent of this kind? After spending money educating a man, why put him in a parish like that? I never complained, and I can say in my own heart of hearts that to me this was the will of God. I had to forget my desire to follow a more intellectual vocation and was resigned to becoming a curate. This gave me a great peace of mind. It was my first test as a young priest in obedience. I began pleading in the confessional for daily attendance at the Holy Mass and happily saw the number at the communion rail increase from four to ninety. A renewal of the parish was undertaken, and I was happy. That was an excerpt from Treasure in Clay, an autobiography of Archbishop Fultonsheen. Hello, and welcome everyone to the Built to Last podcast. Built to Last is a show where I dig into the lives of history's most remarkable leaders, thinkers, trailblazers, and builders to learn not just what they achieved, but to uncover the values, convictions, character, and foundations that were built to last and made them unforgettable. If you're not familiar with Fulton Sheen, he was one of the most influential Catholic voices of the 20th century. He was most well known for his TV series. It was called Life is Worth Living, and it was so wildly successful that it really did give primetime TV stars a run for their money. One of my goals for this podcast is to cover individuals from all walks of life, you know, politicians, athletes, entrepreneurs, and religious figures, because one, I am curious and I want to learn how successful people navigated their time, their profession, and the world they lived in. And two, I think there are common themes that show up again and again in the lives of people who make a lasting impact, regardless of the field they're in. And those patterns are often things I think we can all learn from. And that is the goal of this podcast is to learn what it takes to build success that lasts. Today's episode leans a little bit more religious and spiritual in nature because the person I'm covering, but that doesn't mean that it's only for Catholics or Christians. I think that Bishop Fulton Sheen's story is just so unique in that it's filled with um tales of ambition, disappointment, doubt, even renewal, and most importantly, purpose. I think there's so much to learn from him. He was an excellent speaker and extremely well read in philosophy and scriptures. But more than that, I think he spoke to something in all of us, a sense that we're made for something greater, you know, even if we don't feel fully up to the task, um, just like treasure in clay, fragile, but still capable of doing something meaningful if we work hard enough and use our talents and our gifts with courage, humility, and maybe even a little creativity. So, with that, let's get into his life story. So, Bishop Fulton Sheen was born in Illinois in 1895. He was one of four sons, and uh, while he was baptized Peter, he actually ended up taking his mother's maiden name, Fulton. And when he was still a child, his family moved to another town called Peoria so that he could be enrolled in St. Mary's, which was a school there, and begin a Christian education. And he spent most of his early years there. So he had a pretty simple upbringing, but it was one that was deeply grounded in faith and hard work. He writes, clay has to be molded, and that is done primarily in the family, which is more sacred than the state. The molding of the clay was done by great sacrifices on the part of my father and my mother, who would deny themselves every personal comfort and luxury in order that their sons might be well clothed, educated, and well cared for. Our family life was simple and the atmosphere of our home Christian. The rosary was set every evening. The priests of the cathedral visited the home once every week. And if I may say, you know, the noble role of parents of a mother and father in shaping the lives of their children. I think our culture definitely seems to prioritize individual comfort and personal fulfillment a lot over family and often looks down on making sacrifices, not just, you know, for others, but often also for ourselves, sacrifices that may help us grow and form character. So I think um that's something very telling in that, in that, in that story of his parents and how how he was brought up. Um, and I think Bishop Sheen's parents and others in that generation understood that, you know, love isn't always easy, and you know, being a parent or a spouse requires sacrifice and work and that it's meant to be hard. Um, I think there's increasingly an aversion to working hard and to making sacrifices, but there is something timeless um and about making sacrifices, whether that's for someone else, for or for yourself. And Fulton Stein learned this value of hard work at home as well. He writes, I was brought up on the ethic of work. In scripture, work is described as a penalty for sin, the primal eldest curse. Both my father and mother were hard workers. The habit of work was one I never got over, and I thank God I never did. After he attended St. Mary's School in Illinois, he entered the Spaulding Institute, which was a secondary school in Peoria run by the Brothers of Mary. And then from there he went to college, um, where he was on the debating team and the editorial staff. And looking back, I'm sure these two extracurricular activities had a formative impact on his very public ministry. And to me, I think this is pretty instructive as a parent as well. I think giving children exposure to extracurricular activities like debating and public speaking at a young age can just really help them develop, you know, confidence, but also communication skills that really do last you a lifetime because you're learning in a in a safe space and you're taking baby steps. And I think this is another theme that I think repeats across the different individuals we've been studying and talking about. Um, Ronald Reagan was deeply immersed in extracurricular, extracurricular activity, sorry, and so was Sam Walton. Um Ronald Reagan was pretty explicit on what a big impact they had on his life and shaping the course of his his life. So after he completed his theological studies um at St. Viator and then at St. Paul's Seminary after in Minnesota, he was ordained to the priesthood with the Diocese of Peoria in 1919. As he said in that initial story I read to you, he was very intellectually bent and curious. So he went on to do his graduate studies at the Catholic University of America in 1920. But he still wanted to learn more, and he writes, after two years of graduate studies at the university, I felt that I did not have a sufficiently good education to merit the degree of Doctor of Philosophy. I should like to know two things. First, what the modern world is thinking about. Second, how to answer the errors of modern philosophy in the light of the philosophy of St. Thomas. So, at the advice of one of his professors, he decides to go to the University of Louvain in Belgium, where he was given a PhD three years later. And now, you know, in case you're wondering why I'm going into the intricate details of where all he went to college and graduate school and PhD, it's because I think it's very instructive and it shows us what real ambition to serve and the desire to do well in our, you know, calling of choosing looks like. He wasn't chasing, you know, the PhD title, but what he was really trying to do was he was trying to be as effective as possible at his job as a priest and as a leader and as an educator of his people. And that required investment in himself. And I think he recognized that. And that in itself, I think requires humility and a willingness to say, I don't know enough yet, and I want to know. So I think that to me is very inspiring and such a great mindset to have. Whether you're an entrepreneur, a doctor, an investor, or anything else, you have to be willing to invest yourself in yourself constantly and sort of keep growing. Um, Bishop Sheen also talks in detail about his calling to the priesthood. And I actually thought it was pretty relatable. So he writes, the treasure comes from God. The clay gives the response. But I always had one doubt, and that was my worthiness. A vocation is so very sacred that one does not like to speak of it. Always associated with that sense of the gift of a treasure was the frailty of the earthenware pot which was to house it. I would often drive it out of my mind only to have it come back again. For the most part, the religious vocation is rather a silent but insistent whisper, yet one that demands a response. No violent shaking of bedposts or loud noises in the night, just you are called to be a priest. Most of us don't at first know it is the voice of the Lord. When first we are we are called, but we recognize it as such except by its persistence and the calmness and peace with which it possesses the soul. What I found relatable in that is that, you know, whether it's a dream job or like a passion project or you know, a relationship that feels more than, you know, a coincidence. Um, I think that quiet, persistent tug is so familiar to all of us. I know for me, it's sometimes a nagging voice telling me I need to do more or that I need to put my talents and my gifts and the time that I've been given to a certain use, not in like a prideful way, but almost like a responsibility, a calling. And I thought it was also interesting that he acknowledged the doubt that comes along with that, you know, that sense of I want to, but I can't possibly be qualified or be the right person for that. But I think his view is that the very awareness of our weakness, you know, and the need for grace and for hard work is really what makes us ready to answer that calling, you know, not disqualified in some way from it, you know. So I think that's very um, that's very empowering to hear. He also talks about the three stages of any true vocation. So while this is specific to his vocation to the priesthood, I found it also relatable. He writes, No true vocation starts with what I want or with a work I would like to do. If we are called by God, we may be sent to a work we do not like, and obedience is better than sacrifice. The first stage in vocation is a sense of the holiness of God. When the prophet Isaiah went into the temple, he had a vision of the Lord seated upon his throne with angelic choir singing. Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts. The whole earth is full of his glory. Vocation begins not with what I would like to do, but with God. One is confronted with a presence, with a sense of the unworldly, the holy, and the transcendent. And I think to me, this is also a feeling of a sense that there is more to life than just getting by, that there's a calling, a higher standard, and a bigger purpose for our lives and the talents given to us by God, and to using them in a purposeful and meaningful way that serves God. Um, he writes again the second stage, which is a reaction to this, is a profound sense of unworthiness. The heart is shocked at the simultaneous vision of the clay and the treasure. God is holy, I am not. Woe is me. God can do something with those who see what they really are, and who know their need of cleansing, but can do nothing with the man who feels himself worthy. Prophet Isaiah was cleansed of his paltriness by the seraphim who took a burning coal from the altar and touched his mouth and said, Behold, this has touched your lips, your guilt is taken away, and your sin is forgiven. What I take from this is that perhaps that feeling of I'm not fully up to the task of inadequacy is important when you're pursuing your calling, maybe because you know that because that's like the nudge or impedis to get us to work harder and to push ourselves and grow in ways we never would have if we felt, you know, completely up to the task from the start. And you know, as um as a person of faith, I think it also implies the need to rely on on grace. And then on mortification, I wanted to make a quick comment, which is, you know, I think it's like it says, being touched by a burning coal is the way in some ways for spiritual redemption, spiritual purification. But in earthly life, too, going through a trial by fire, as they say, or through struggles, is really what you see as the pathway to excellence and to a better self. And this is why I think it's so interesting to read this book because you really find these parallels. And especially in today's world, when I think some people or many people find it pretty repulsive to talk about religious ideas and their relevance today, and yet you look at these stories and you find that they speak so closely, not just to the spiritual realm, obviously, but also to the earthly realm and to our day-to-day lives. And this to me is a reinforcement in some ways of how important it is to have faith as a foundation of your life, as something that grounds you and gives you a guidepost in life. Um, he continues, the third stage is response. After the purging, Isaiah heard the voice of the Lord asking, Whom shall I send? And Isaiah answered, Here I am, send me. Each priest is crucified on the vertical beam of the God given vocation and on the horizontal beam of the simple longing of the flesh and a world that so often beckons to conformity with it. But God is constantly remolding the clay, giving it a second and third and even seventy times seven chances. The effort of restoring love succeeds even when God's original plan is frustrated by the material with which he has to work. Where sin did abound, grace does more abound. At the close of life, one can well see the potter's intention to make a saint. God doesn't make anything with the purpose of destroying it. There's no waste in life. That portion of us which is tired and tested, which is subjected to many trials, is not a waste. The tears, the agonies, the frustrations are worked into new forms. So it is when we measure ourselves by God, we fall infinitely short, and when we compare ourselves with many who have given us inspiration, we feel a deep sense of unworthiness. But behind it all, and despite all of this, there is the tremendous consciousness of the mercy of God. He did not call angels to be priests, he called men. He did not make gold the vessel for his treasure, he made clay. The motley group of apostles that he gathered about him became more worthy through his mercy and compassion. Wow, I really loved that last piece there, and I think it's such a great description of well, a lot of things, but what courage looks like of taking um feelings of inadequacy and the lack of ability and making something out of that anyway, by showing up, by working hard, um going through trials and refining ourselves and building strength and character and of course to the grace of God. So when he had finished studying in Belgium and he came back to the United States and served as an assistant at a parish for a year, um this was the story I sort of read you at the start of the episode. Um he worked at that parish for a year and he was assigned then after that as a member of the faculty at the Catholic University. He writes, I loved teaching. The thought often came to me at the university. Why is it that we teachers have tenure and football coaches don't? There can be mediocrity in the classroom. A football coach who does not produce a winning team is forced to leave. All generals may fade away, but poor teachers are just handed on. Teaching often becomes a communication from the notebook of the teacher to the notebook of the student without passing through the minds of either. So true. I felt a deep moral obligation to students. That is why I spent so many hours in preparation for each class. A teacher who does not learn is no teacher. Gosh, what a great point about not letting mediocrity seep into himself and holding himself to a high standard. I think Jamie Diamond has a quote along the lines of that, you know, just like complacency is a cancer that kills. And I think that's um that's basically what you know he's saying too, and it's so true. It's so easy, I think, to do that for most people. And everyone has a lot of ambition and drive when they first start out, and then you know, and then eventually, you know, the fame flame fizzes out when you reach a certain level and there's the desire to coast. Um but this is such a good reminder, right? That if you truly want to serve or excel, you can't allow mediocrity to settle in. So on teaching, he talks about, you know, kind of how the method and you know what he used to stay current, and he also asked the advice of one of his professors who said to him, always keep current. Know what the modern world is thinking about, read its poetry, its history, its literature, observe its architecture and its art, hear its music and its theater, and then plunge deeply into St. Thomas and the wisdom of the ancients, and you will be able to refute its errors. The second suggestion: tear up your notes at the end of the year. There is nothing that so much destroys the intellectual growth of a teacher as the keeping of notes and the repetition of the same course the following year. So Bishop Sheen did. He resolved never to repeat a course. In the summer, he would spend months and countless hours preparing for the proposed course for next year. Um, in the book, he shares some more practices he used in his teaching, again, that I think are just so useful regardless of you know whether you're a teacher or um or a priest. My first rule was never sit. Fires cannot be started seated. In preparing lectures, I would first research the subject to be discussed and then organize the research by arranging it, if possible, to a few clear points. The next step would be to make this material so much my own that I could readily communicate it to the students or to an audience. This would be done by a learning process, which might be described as follows. I learned the lecture from the inside out, not from the outside in. I did not learn the lecture by reading over the notes from my research. I would write out from memory my recollection of the points, then I would check with the research to see how well I had absorbed the points. That paper on which I had first summarized the lecture would be torn up. One new plan after another would be drawn up and destroyed. I would repeat the process over and over again so that I was not allowing a piece of paper to dictate my mind. Finally, I would reach a point where the material was mine. It was like digested food, not food on the shelf, and that was the reason I never used notes for a lecture or a sermon. So that's very impressive, and that's what he did even in his TV shows. There were no rehearsals because he didn't use notes. He writes, I would spend about 30 hours preparing every telecast, which meant that enough material was gathered to talk for an hour or more. As in breathing, there's always more oxygen outside of the body than that which is taken in by the lungs. So the knowledge that one has on a certain subject must be far greater than that which is imparted imparted. I'm convinced that preaching and lecturing are impossible without much studying and reading. Books are great friends. A day or two before the actual broadcast, I would try out my comprehension of the subject by giving the talk in Italian to an Italian professor and also in French to a member of the staff. I did this not because of great expertise in either language, but because I was forced to think out the ideas in another tongue, and I knew that would help clarify the subject in my mind. I just absolutely love how creative he got with making himself better. And I think this whole section is so powerful to me because I think it just goes to show like people who are really successful will come up with different ways to make themselves better, and they're obsessed with getting better, and that's so clean, so clear with him as well. Like he's just coming up with ideas I've never heard before of people preparing for a lecture. Like, I mean, he's so so obsessed and taken with being good. Um another thing Bishop Sheen did, he said, was to equalize himself with his audience. He said, an audience I also learned does not like to be made to feel inferior to the speaker. That is why a story in which the speaker is humbled gives them a feeling of equality. And he tells a story on this. He preached retreats to, you know, to priests, to young people, but also to a few prisons, and he says, This calls for a particular approach. Before you, there may be 2,000 inmates, all of who pay you the courtesy of thinking you have the white hat and they have the black hats. This is the way I solved that problem. Gentlemen, there's one great difference between you and me. You have been caught, I was not. In other words, we are all sinners. From that point on, it was very easy to deal with them. Genius. Fulton Sheen loved the classroom as well. He loved the responsibility of shaping minds. But, you know, he also understood something that most teachers, along with other things, don't often have to think about. And he said, if you're really going to change lives and minds, you need to meet people where they are. And in the mid-20th century, people weren't just in churches and classrooms. They were in their living rooms, gathered around radios and soon televisions. So for his time, he was a pioneer in utilizing new media like radio and television to spread the gospel. And he was one of the first people to give a radio message broadcast and to do a religious TV show when TVs arrived. He began what would come to be an iconic TV show, and he began his first national broadcast on Sunday evening in New York during primetime at the same hour in which Amos and Andy appeared during the week. With his show A Life Worth Living, he had the opportunity, you know, really of a lifetime to make something different and lasting. And he absolutely did not miss the mark. He writes, When I began television nationally and on a commercial basis, the approach had to be different. The new method had to be more ecumenical and directed to all men of goodwill. It was no longer a direct presentation of Christian doctrine, but rather a reasoned approach to it, beginning with something that was common to the audience. I would gradually proceed from the known to the unknown or to the moral and Christian philosophy. And it worked. He wasn't dumbing things down, he was feeding the hungry minds of people who were looking for purpose and meaning. I think he would have really thrived in today's social media age. Um, I thought, and you know, he predicted about the future dialogue of what religious um conversations would look like, and I think he's pretty spot on. He wrote, There's an approach to electronic audience which will be in the future. It is what might be called the anthropological. I mean it as the roots of the word imply. A study of man. The presentation of religion had been principally from God to man, but now it will be from man to God. It will not start with the order in the universe alluding to the existence of a creator of the cosmos. It will start with the disorder inside a man. Himself starting with the unhappiness inside of the human heart. The audience is always there, the opportunities are ever present. And I think that if people are familiar with Jordan Peterson or Bishop Barron, I think that's really what they've been talking about is the disorder and the chaos inside ourselves. And I think they've gotten so much traction because, as Bishop Sheen said, the audience is always there. Um and I also think that the need for a way out of the chaos that surrounds our life in general is so clear. Um, and you really see that also in the spiritual renewal and increase in interest in religion and outward expression of people's faith, especially in Gen Z these days. So that is, I think that's that's spot on. There were a few pressing issues, to say the least, that had Sheen's attention in the 1960s. Um the 1960s marked a profound shift in culture in America. Um the post-war optimism of the 1950s gave way gave way to um, let's say, the upheaval of the 60s. You know, there's political unrest, moral confusion, a rise in secular ideologies like communism, and generally a growing skepticism of religion altogether, which I think has been the case for time and more immemorial, but I I think more so um since the 1960s. Um but Bishop Sheen wasn't going to be a bystander to this change. You know, he saw it happening in real time and he understood what was at stake. Whether it was in universities, parishes, prisons, or primetime television, he was there to offer both critique and hope. And he saw clearly where things were headed, and he tried in his own bold, creative way to turn the tide. About the situation at home, he writes, the sixties had a particular peculiar philosophy which affected every person regardless of his faith or lack of faith. It might be described in two ways. First, what was generally good in the spirit of the sixties was the shift from the individual to the social. In the sixties, a social consciousness arose in which love of neighbor was too often purchased at the cost of neglect of God. At times, individual justice was ignored so long as one was fighting for social justice. The second characteristic of the 60s, which seems to be in contradiction but is not, was the emphasis on the me. The I of each person is accepted as a valid criterion. In the beginning is not the word, but in the beginning is the I and it was good. Anything that stands opposite the self is a negation of self. This became identified with authority. In the extreme form, as Sartre put, my neighbor is hell, and by neighbor Sartre included even God, for God opposes the self as the absolute. As a consequence of these two assumptions, a sense of personal guilt and sin began to vanish. The only sins were social sins. This made it difficult for religion and morality in the sixties. Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passed not through the states or between classes, nor between political parties either, but right through every human heart. I have come to understand the truth of the religions of the world, the struggle with the evil inside the human being. It is impossible to expel evil from the world in its entirety, but it is possible to constrict it within each person. In the late sixties, many seminaries began to put less emphasis on the doctrinal and spiritual, and more on the sociological and even the political, not only in this country but throughout the world. There began to be a fission between the priesthood and the victimhood of Christ. Sometimes there was an acknowledgement of the priesthood without the victimhood of co-redemption with Christ. On the other hand, victimhood was sometimes interpreted solely in the terms of service to the world rather than also bearing the guilt and sin and poverty of the world in the name of Christ. Bishop Fultonshin wasn't afraid to name, you know, the spiritual cost of this cultural change. And he saw that increasingly sin was no longer, you know, it's it was it's not personal, there's some social element to it as well. But if you remove personal guilt, you also remove personal responsibility, and that starts to become a very dangerous territory. And you see that, you know, still being true today, we're all just so obsessed with ourselves. Um you know, even in so-called social justice issues, at the end of the day, it's all about power, it's all about prioritizing the self at all costs, even if that means committing sins against other people. Um but meanwhile, you know, as communism was starting to take hold as a dominant ideology globally, he wrote, Shortly after I was appointed professor at the Catholic University of America, and particularly after Russia became an ally of the United States in World War II, communism began to have an appeal to many Americans. As a preparation for communism, I have read through the writings of Marx, Lenin, and Stalin. Their philosophy can be summarized rather simply. Man has been alienated from his true nature in two ways, by religion and by private property. Man was alienated from himself by religion because it made him subservient to God. Man was alienated from himself by private property because it made him subject to an employer. If therefore man was ever to be restored to his true nature, religion and private property must be destroyed. Atheism and the economics of communism are inseparable. Because in my lectures at the university and my public appearance, my anti-communist position was well known. And really, Bishop Fultons took a lot of heat for his anti-communist position and was considered one of, you know, one of the public enemies in many communist circles. But he was not afraid to make his views public, and he was clear that removing God and religion from the picture meant stripping away the meaning and purpose of life, and that is only a downward spiral for the soul and for society. You know, he watched also how ideology really hardened into persecution, and so that's another reason why he really made it his mission to speak truth into the darkness, whether that be through teaching, preaching, or through media, um, knowing full well, you know, that there might be repercussions to his position. In both cases of that cultural shift that we talked about, talked about in communism, he really wasn't discouraged. You know, he responded with bold creativity. So, for example, he invited priests from Europe to teach the seminarians in America, and he really wanted his seminarians to know how much Christians in Eastern Europe were suffering for their faith. Um, he proposed innovative ideas like buying a page in the secular press to cover church news instead of just having a church newspaper to save money and then also to reach a broader audience. He also talked about opening small chapels near supermarkets so people could access the sacraments while running errands. And, you know, even if all of those ideas didn't go through, I just loved that he was so creative and innovative in thinking about how he could reach more people. Um and he was, you know, anything but passive. He was a man of faith, yes, but he was also a man of action. You know, he was ambitious, creative, and he was just unafraid to try new things and to propose new ideas. Um, but through it all, you know, he was a very um he was a very humble man. He said, the Lord does not choose the best. It was not given, I was not given a vocation because God, in his divine wisdom, saw that I would be better than other men. He often chooses weak instruments in order that his power might be manifested. Otherwise, it would seem that the good was done by the clay rather than the spirit. So as we start to wrap up this episode, I wanted to leave you with some of his more um spiritual and reflective thoughts. Um, I really do love, you know, how deeply religious, you know, his insights are, but they're also things that apply to our everyday life, you know, and one that stood out to me was which we talked a lot about in today's episode was this concept of working hard, of struggling, and um, you know, really trying to get out of your comfort zone. So he writes, What is the essence of Satanism? When the devil is stripped of all his trappings, the ultimate goal of the demonic is to avoid the cross. Mortification, self-discipline, and self-denial. Peter was called Satan because he did the same thing Satan did at the beginning of our Lord's public life. The three temptations against Christ were the worldly ways of escaping the cross. At the beginning of his public life, Satan tried to show the Lord another way of saving the world, except by dying for its sins. The three others that he made were first, satisfy every id of fallen human nature, never mortify an instinct, if hungry, you may miraculously produce bread. If passionate, find sex. The second temptation was to use the spectacular, the extraordinary, publicity, emotion, anything to draw the crowd, like throwing yourself off the top of the temple unharmed. The third temptation was probably the only true words the devil ever spoke. All the kingdoms of the world are mine, and I will give them to you. If falling down, you will adore me. Identify yourself with the world, do what is popular, for I am its prince. I really like this reflection, and it's so beautifully written. I think we've probably heard the story of the three temptations by the devil multiple times, but I've never really, you know, thought of it as being a message for us that you know there's no shortcut to progress, you know, whether that's spiritual, intellectual, or personal, there's a cost, there's a cross to bear, and the price must be paid. Um every one of the devil's temptation of Christ was basically a shortcut, you know, a way to escape the cross, you know, turn the stones into bread, show off your power, take the easy path. And Jesus said no to it all. Um see that today in YouTube and TikTok, all about quick fixes and instant results and instant gratification, you know, hack your morning routine or manifest your goals and find your purpose in three easy steps. But you know, the truth is I think anything real or anything lasting, I mean, not saying you know anything's wrong with those with those videos necessarily in themselves, but you know, I think the idea that like you can just get to things without really making a sacrifice, I think is a false illusion. Um so, you know, there's really as as you know we would say, there's no resurrection without the cross. The second reflection that I thought was very powerful, and I'll leave you with it, is he writes, I only know that those who received more talents from God will be more strictly judged, and when a man has been given much, much will be expected of him, and the more a man might have had entrusted to him, the more he could be required to repay. So that's just a powerful reminder that our talents and the time that we're given are gifts that are meant to be used, to be honed and to be used, to build something good with. Um our talents are responsibilities, and it's our job, I know it's a reminder to myself, to take what we've got, work hard at it, and use it for something that lasts. Um and so, with that, hope this episode was inspiring and interesting for you. I really enjoyed reading this book, and I hope you get a chance to as well. There's a lot of interesting stories in there. And as always, if you have any feedback, I'd love to hear and see your comments. And if you liked today's episode, please share it with someone you think would like. I'd really appreciate it. So until next episode, happy reading and thank you.