From AI Prompts to $200K Wins: A Media Leader’s Productivity Playbook

In this episode of the Dumb Monkey Podcast, Aamir Qutub and Davina Montgomery sit down with Ramon Rodriguez, General Manager of the Geelong Advertiser, to explore how business leaders can turn curiosity about AI into measurable business wins. 

Ramon shares how tools like Perplexity and Comet have helped him cut through repetitive work, spark creativity, and even close a $200K deal. We go deeper into the AI-first mindset every leader needs, the risks of falling behind in Australia, and why privacy and guardrails matter. 

Packed with prompting hacks, productivity shortcuts, and candid reflections from media and business leaders, this episode is a playbook for anyone who wants to stop dabbling and start leading with AI. 

Resources & Links:

📲 Dumb Monkey AI Academy → https://dumbmonkey.ai/

📱 Dumb Monkey App → https://dumbmonkey.ai/dl

📘 The CEO Who Mocked AI (Until It Made Him Millions) → https://mybook.to/dumbmonkeypodcast

🚀 Enterprise Monkey → https://enterprisemonkey.com.au

🛠️ Tools & Platforms Mentioned

• Perplexity AI (search + voice assistant) → https://www.perplexity.ai/
• Comet Browser by Perplexity (AI-powered browser) → https://www.perplexity.ai/downloads/comet
• Claude (Anthropic) → https://claude.ai/
• ChatGPT (OpenAI) → https://chat.openai.com/
• Microsoft Copilot → https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-copilot
• Mistral AI → https://mistral.ai/
• Llama (Meta) → https://ai.meta.com/llama/
• ElevenLabs (voice AI) → https://elevenlabs.io/
• Lovable (no-code AI app builder) → https://www.lovable.dev/
• Notion (mentioned for tasks/workflow) → https://www.notion.so/

Transcript

00:00:00:02 - 00:00:16:03
Ramon
When you have a thought and you want to do something, stop. You know, I ask. I, I just signed up to something that is cost me just under $400 a month. What it takes people nine hours of continuous Excel work and formulas down to an average of 9 to 13 minutes.

00:00:16:08 - 00:00:21:00
Aamir
I have actually interacted with and met with a lot of people, like we've actually lost their job.

00:00:21:00 - 00:00:23:14

Because of the job. Absolutely.

00:00:23:16 - 00:00:24:02
Aamir
And these.

00:00:24:02 - 00:00:24:24
Davina
Are the next job going to.

00:00:24:24 - 00:00:43:16
Ramon
Be something that I was using on the way here today with, perplexity. I just turned it on one day. I'm thinking it's probably not going to be any good before you know it, it's doing emails for me, creating drafts. Tell me what's on my calendar, and it's telling me you know, these are my five meetings today. These are the three projects that the decision makers in the meetings are working on.

00:00:43:16 - 00:00:56:05
Ramon
And this is what you should probably be steering the conversation towards what I've built most recently that is saving me the most amount of time is a prompt board, so we all know we've got the keyboard. Yes, we've got emojis, and now we've got the prompt from.

00:00:56:07 - 00:00:59:01
Aamir
So you're saying you press some keys and it creates the prompt.

00:00:59:03 - 00:01:10:22
Ramon
Yeah, I get to spend more time on doing what I do best and right. That's human interaction. You know, that's working with people and delivering value to the business.

00:01:10:24 - 00:01:23:11
Davina
Hi everyone, and welcome to episode two of the Dumb Monkey podcast. And we're joined by our co-founder of Dumb Monkey America, Taub and by Ramon Rodriguez from the news Group Australia. Ramon, welcome. Thanks for joining us.

00:01:23:12 - 00:01:24:23
Ramon
Thank you. I'm excited to be here.

00:01:25:00 - 00:01:37:08
Aamir
Yeah. No, thanks a lot. And first of all, we made it to our second podcast, which is great. And I had a reason I wanted to have him on. Here is I met with you, I think like a month ago, and we started talking about AI.

00:01:37:08 - 00:01:38:04
Ramon
It's very fast.

00:01:38:04 - 00:01:58:20
Aamir
It has. Yes. And you mentioned that you are doing some stuff with AI, and I originally assumed that you would be just using like ChatGPT doing basic stuff. But when I had the first conversation with you, I was blown away with the the level of how you are using AI personally in your role, but also how you are actually implementing AI in your business as well.

00:01:58:22 - 00:02:19:10
Aamir
So I would say you are one of those non-technical person who doesn't come from a technical background, but have been using AI really heavily. You're like one of that super users of AI. So I wanted to have you in here and listen from you about how you are using AI. Yeah, but before that, if you can give us a quick intro of who you are, what you do in your life.

00:02:19:12 - 00:02:26:05
Ramon
Sifu user I'll I'll take that. Yeah. So we met obviously about a month ago. It's been a foster relationship with us.

00:02:26:05 - 00:02:26:08
Aamir
Yes.

00:02:26:11 - 00:02:47:23
Ramon
We talking all the time now but a little bit about me. So yeah. Raymond Rodriguez I mean from News Corp been in the company for quite a while, been, around the company and pretty much every, every state. So I've got a bit of a reputation of, you know, being the fixer when things that I get sent in and I've had the opportunity to work in multiple different markets, which has been really exciting.

00:02:47:23 - 00:02:59:04
Ramon
My background is, media and but digital media is, you know, where I've spent most of my time before NewsCorp, I was at the Yellow Pages. If anyone actually remembers what that is. Yeah, I.

00:02:59:04 - 00:03:00:09
Davina
Sit on them and I learn how to drive.

00:03:00:12 - 00:03:25:05
Ramon
Yeah, yeah. So that was where I learned how not to do digital transformation, because that obviously didn't go too well. Sorry to the ex-employees out there. Now, all jokes aside, was a great place to learn, and NewsCorp is being fundamentally an exciting place to, spend the last, you know, nine, ten years of my career. Kudos to all of my bosses have just given me opportunities to do things that I probably wasn't qualified for.

00:03:25:05 - 00:03:44:22
Ramon
But for some reason, I landed on my feet most of the time and learned a lot of things along the way. But the key thing that sort of put me into AI is like any business. Low on resources, low on time. If you hear my title, I've got about 2 or 3 different jobs. So finding the time in the day with, you know, a young family and kids isn't easy.

00:03:44:22 - 00:03:46:19
Ramon
So that's how I sort of fell into AI.

00:03:46:21 - 00:03:48:13
Aamir
And what are your titles?

00:03:48:15 - 00:03:59:20
Ramon
Yeah. So I'm the general manager of the Geelong Advertiser and general manager of product and partnerships for Victor's. So that is brands like the Herald Sun, the Hobart Mercury. So keeps you busy.

00:03:59:22 - 00:04:01:05
Aamir
That's a big responsibility.

00:04:01:08 - 00:04:11:20
Davina
It's a huge responsibility. But yeah I hear you on you know, media is a game of a whole lot of stuff to do at a really good level and not a lot of time and resources to do it. It's everything's right on the edge, isn't it?

00:04:11:21 - 00:04:17:14
Ramon
It totally is. Everything's important. Everything's on a deadline, but there's only so many hours in the day. Right?

00:04:17:16 - 00:04:30:10
Davina
So you're using AI as a as a, as a tool, as an AI assistant. So it's, it's that, you know, when I don't want to do something that's I know this is going to take me some time. I know it needs to get me done. What are you throwing into AI. What are you asking it to do.

00:04:30:12 - 00:04:38:00
Ramon
On a daily basis? Regularly? Yeah. So I, yeah, probably going to sound like a bit of a weirdo answering this, but I was recently at.

00:04:38:02 - 00:04:40:16
Davina
Although we dances here at Dog We Embrace.

00:04:40:16 - 00:05:01:14
Ramon
We've also recently spoken to the vice, the vice chancellor at, Swinburne. We were talking about, people on the left and on the right in terms of AI adaptation, I think when I haven't got meetings, I'm one of those people that probably speak to AI more than humans right now. So I use it for literally anything and everything.

00:05:01:14 - 00:05:25:14
Ramon
It's sort of become less and weird, like my AI is tend to a bit of like a thinking partner and a bit of a solution buddy, but someone to just say something is even keep me entertained on these long drives. Like a funny story is, on the way here. So I now live back in Melbourne. I moved back to Melbourne about a year ago, based on work, and, coming to Geelong regularly sometimes can be up to a hour and a half, two hours.

00:05:25:14 - 00:05:40:18
Ramon
And I used to just complain to my mum. I'm like, these drives are killing me. What am I going to do to keep busy? I'm so unproductive. So he said, write a book, listen to a podcast, make calls, did that so much, and every time I would ring people, they'd be like, you're on the freeway again. And I'll say, yes.

00:05:40:20 - 00:05:58:14
Ramon
So I think the that sort of led me to this, an AI tool that comes to mind that I find super relevant. All of you would probably agree that Siri is okay, but it's sort of a piece of crap like it's it's really not that useful. So something that I was using on the way here today was, perplexity.

00:05:58:14 - 00:06:19:11
Ramon
Right. And while driving, if anyone's used the perplexity voice mode, it's absolutely amazing. I just turned it on one day. I'm thinking it's probably not going to be any good. It'll probably just give me great, cited up to date information, but it literally seems like seem to be integrated within iOS. So before you know, it, it's doing emails for me, creating drafts.

00:06:19:11 - 00:06:39:04
Ramon
Tell me what's on my calendar. It's like a super charge, like executive assistant. No offense, Versary, but it's so, so cool. Like, I'm driving on the freeway and it's telling me, you know, these are my five meetings today. These are the three projects that the decision makers in the meeting, meetings are working on. And this is what you should probably, be steering the conversation towards.

00:06:39:06 - 00:06:41:20
Ramon
What has this so, so helpful. Right.

00:06:41:22 - 00:07:01:19
Davina
So really interesting too, because we talked a little bit in the first episode about how I particularly generative AI is there as a it's a human tool, but what it does is it can unleash that real human creativity. It can give us time to be use our imagination and to start problem solving because it can do some of that thought work for us.

00:07:01:19 - 00:07:17:14
Davina
But that idea of bouncing back, so get it to bounce back ideas towards you a way that, yeah, sometimes you go hallucinate and come up with, you know, something's not right. But for the majority of time it it can be that real conversation. And we're learning how to use the idea is learning how we need to to work.

00:07:17:14 - 00:07:20:04
Davina
And the more you use it, the more KPIs we get, the better to show.

00:07:20:07 - 00:07:40:08
Aamir
And perplexity started as a search tool. So it's an AI search assistant. And it came out as a competitor to Google. So I was I jumped on perplexity at a very early stage. And since I started using perplexity, I haven't been using Google at all for all of my searches like it's stat. But then what you are talking about is the next use case of perplexity.

00:07:40:08 - 00:07:45:18
Aamir
You also introduced me to comet as well. It's like there's a new browser like perplexity that you started to use.

00:07:45:19 - 00:07:47:11
Ramon
Oh my gosh, don't get me started.

00:07:47:17 - 00:07:59:11
Aamir
Just to give everyone an overview, comet is, an AI browser by perplexity that they have just introduced, which means that AI is actually built into that browser. And so if you want to give us an overview of how you're using it, okay.

00:07:59:12 - 00:08:23:04
Ramon
Like comet, essentially think about it as, yeah, you know, you normal Google Chrome. It does everything else. That would do. But imagine you have someone sitting next to you and you can ask this person to do anything you want. And they essentially always say yes, right. That's a common browser is for me. So the mundane and the things that I don't want to do, I don't have time to do comma browser does for me.

00:08:23:04 - 00:08:27:07
Ramon
They seriously need a sponsor. I mean, considering how much are we talking about bloody comet?

00:08:27:09 - 00:08:31:20
Aamir
Well, I'm. I paid $200 US dollars a month in the basis of your company.

00:08:31:21 - 00:08:59:03
Ramon
Yes, I'm gonna try. Yeah, 30, $30 a month. So I was one of the early people to get access. So lucky. For example, I got how I use it on a daily basis. This morning, for example, a big part of my role is I've got a lot of different projects and shifting tasks. I've got to do this in notion, every morning based on a priority filter I've got set up, essentially organizes my calendar, my to do list for me.

00:08:59:03 - 00:09:18:23
Ramon
And the cool thing about it is it's not restricted by, APIs. If I'm, you know, needing broad context, it's not having to look into 6 or 7 different places to essentially got access to anything in my browser. So it's like the level of accuracy I find with commit and just calendar and tasks so, so interesting and amazing.

00:09:18:23 - 00:09:39:03
Ramon
But I'm always cautious. With comet because it's a new piece of technology. What does that data privacy, look like? Obviously a lot of the information is kept on local locally in the service. So I think that is interesting. There's so much still you can do for it from a single, from a single prompt to, you know, multi-step research.

00:09:39:03 - 00:09:58:15
Ramon
It's it's effectively taking out pretty accurately so far. But the feature I find really cool as of recent is, the shortcuts feature, that's come out to comet. So you can essentially put different shortcuts together. So it maybe put my to do list together, scan my calendar, and then respond to my top three emails in draft. And it will do that all for me.

00:09:58:15 - 00:10:20:03
Ramon
So it's it's sort of amazing because like thinking about things like this before I came to I wasn't like a tech person. Digital marketing and digital. Sure. But I, I think is opening the doors for so many non-technical users to make their lives so much quicker, easier and faster. But the only warning is, if you're anything like me, you'll get obsessed pretty quickly.

00:10:20:05 - 00:10:22:02

Easily.

00:10:22:04 - 00:10:33:10
Davina
You know, out of the family. Yeah. Ramona, you touched on something that I think is really important to discuss. In particular, it's a great context to talk about it within the media industry is private information.

00:10:33:12 - 00:10:46:15
Ramon
Yeah. That is the thing that we're all trying to navigate. Right. Because I think I did enterprises that will be scaled much faster once we sort of work that out because, ChatGPT had a leak. How many years ago was it?

00:10:46:17 - 00:10:47:13
Aamir
I think three years ago.

00:10:47:16 - 00:10:51:07
Ramon
Three years ago. So saying that really hasn't been too much better.

00:10:51:09 - 00:10:59:10
Aamir
Recently, what happened with them is they created a new feature public. You can make your chat public, and it's on Google Index. Yes. That was a big fail.

00:10:59:10 - 00:11:12:04
Ramon
Yeah, yeah. So my rule of thumb is if I'm going to put anything into ChatGPT perplexity code, whatever it is, am I okay if it comes up on Google? In a work context? If I'm not, I probably won't put it in there.

00:11:12:07 - 00:11:31:11
Davina
And that's a great. Yeah, but so then you just. Yeah. You just where I want you putting in there. So you can make that a little bit more general. You can give it an example so that you're going to get some feedback based on what it is that you're looking how, I'm interested to ask you about then how you've learned and how your prompts have changed.

00:11:31:13 - 00:11:52:21
Ramon
Yeah. Prompting is the the most time because that has been the most time consuming thing is spinning my wheels in AI because I recently just got told, you know, talk to a like a human. I talk to it like a human. But I don't know how many times you've experienced in your life when that one person keeps texting you and you know, you just have to keep responding and your text messages start getting shorter and shorter.

00:11:52:23 - 00:12:16:08
Ramon
That's what it's like with the die, right? But you need to keep that, prompt in that information. Good. Because if not, you're just talking and talking and talking and spinning wheels. So prompting is, is like super critical. So at the start, I learned a few, methods like craft score, and they were really good. But if you talk to AI as much as me, repeating yourself and writing at these frameworks is tedious and time consuming.

00:12:16:08 - 00:12:36:03
Ramon
So, maybe a couple months ago I built at a bit of a spreadsheet, of prompts. So if I need to brainstorm, I've got a sequence of prompts. If I need to handle a tricky stakeholder, I've got a series of prompts. But what I've built Grace most recently that is saving me the most amount of time is a prompt board, and that integrates was in Apple's.

00:12:36:03 - 00:12:49:05
Ramon
So we all know we've got the keyboard. Yes, we've got emojis and now we've got the prompt. So essentially you just click on that and the format that I need to use or the use case, it essentially just pivots. I insert it and put a little bit of my context.

00:12:49:06 - 00:12:51:24
Aamir
So you're saying you press some keys and it creates the prompt.

00:12:52:01 - 00:13:20:16
Ramon
Yeah. So it's got, you know, 100 odd set prompts based on the situation. Click it and then it just inserts just like you would with an emoji. Yeah. So you just say to edit your context slightly, but that saves you from having to repeat yourself consistently. And the number one thing I think, is a barrier to prompting is actually getting lazy with it because we can follow like a framework like score or craft, but, you know, if you're low on time and just lazy, you don't have the time to continuously be putting that out.

00:13:20:16 - 00:13:24:24
Ramon
So this essentially puts a framework together that's easy, repeatable and scalable.

00:13:24:24 - 00:13:30:12
Davina
Yeah. And if you're really busy and you're trying to to juggle multiple tasks instead of tons, and that's a really handy shortcut to.

00:13:30:12 - 00:13:31:06
Ramon
Yeah, totally.

00:13:31:09 - 00:13:54:24
Aamir
And I was also facing the same issues. I think one thing that has helped me a lot is custom GPT, because that's something that you can create in Chat Jupyter, where you can prefix the prompt and then have all of the sections in there, and then start to talk to it, and a new feature, which is called Projects in Chat, GPT or in copilot, you've got notebooks where you can again feed the instructions so it already has the context and the prompting becomes smaller with that.

00:13:54:24 - 00:14:01:07
Aamir
But I really loved your idea about having your prompt fed in the keyboard and like using them as shortcuts as well.

00:14:01:07 - 00:14:08:12
Ramon
Yeah, if I just take you back to ChatGPT, right. You were talking about ChatGPT. We talking about custom custom projects which run both.

00:14:08:12 - 00:14:10:24
Aamir
Actually like inputs and and projects.

00:14:10:24 - 00:14:15:13
Ramon
Which one do you prefer is there? So I still can't work out the value in projects.

00:14:15:15 - 00:14:36:04
Aamir
That's a good one. So if I have something that I will do on a repeated basis, like a system where I have got a blog and I need to convert into a podcast script, then I would definitely use a custom GPT for that. Yeah, or I've got like my LinkedIn post builder. That is my custom GPT. Whereas if I'm working on a project like we are starting this podcast called a monkey.

00:14:36:07 - 00:14:53:00
Aamir
So I've got a project called Dumb Monkey Podcast, which has got some general instructions. And then I would every interaction that I would have would be stored in. So projects is like a folder where you have all of the relevant files attached to it, all of the instructions, but it can actually look at other chats within that environment.

00:14:53:00 - 00:15:06:22
Aamir
And provide the information. Yeah. Similarly, when I was writing the book, I created a project for writing the book and had the context of the book in there, had all of the relevant files. And then I was creating chapters in each and every chat.

00:15:06:24 - 00:15:19:06
Ramon
Yeah. Right, right. Super interesting though. ChatGPT I'm sure most people know what that is, but I don't know how effectively everyone is using it. I think when I speak to people about it, they're sort of using it like Google.

00:15:19:08 - 00:15:33:03
Davina
Yeah, it's effectively it's a really surface level. And that's part of that entry into the when we talk about this, you know, I becoming ubiquitous, becoming part of part of our world, that's that thing. So electricity can be turning on the light but it can do an awful lot.

00:15:33:09 - 00:15:33:23
Ramon
Oh for sure.

00:15:33:23 - 00:15:59:08
Davina
So then turning on the light. So yeah. Yeah. If what you're going to do is you switch the light switch on, then you're, you're only really tapping the surface. But having these sort of conversations and giving people a bit of an insight into, into how you're using it in different use cases, I think is a great way to break down those barriers, because it's easy to just step up and say, oh, well, I've heard people, you know, worried about privacy or I can't put my business stuff in there because then the model is going to learn off mine and then it's hands off and I'm not going to start.

00:15:59:08 - 00:16:05:06
Davina
So breaking down that barriers to entry, I think is is a good place to start. And just normalizing it a bit more. Yeah.

00:16:05:07 - 00:16:09:19
Aamir
That is yeah. And you mentioned how you now have a relationship with I.

00:16:09:19 - 00:16:12:01
Ramon
Did I did I say relationship.

00:16:12:03 - 00:16:14:12
Aamir
Or situation like, like oh you.

00:16:14:12 - 00:16:19:00
Ramon
Can pay whatever. Now I'm not one of those people I fall in love with my I though I'll say that.

00:16:19:01 - 00:16:26:13
Aamir
Yeah, that's fair enough. But how did you start on this journey? Like when? Like when when did you actually start working with the.

00:16:26:13 - 00:16:57:18
Ramon
I probably, generative AI about 12, maybe 12 months ago. So it hasn't been long, but it's been, it's been a real journey because I thought it was just initially this cool, shiny thing to something that I don't know how in my day to day basis, you know, what I would do if it wasn't there in terms of you know, productivity and creativity, where it said it's a really unlock for me is, you know, traditionally, you know, the job interview question, what's your worst, what's your biggest weakness?

00:16:57:20 - 00:17:19:08
Ramon
And I would always want to say creativity, but I would never say it. But I always thought it was really uncreative, right. From a traditional sense. But for some reason, AI is unlock this new level of creativity in me that I didn't know I had, which is actually amazing. My whole life I thought was my biggest weakness. Now I probably think it's my biggest asset, but it's probably just because I'm actually really interested in it.

00:17:19:08 - 00:17:44:17
Ramon
But since experimenting with it from the first Google ChatGPT, if you know what I mean. Just asking grand questions on there to where we are now. There's been a huge journey, but until I started seeing ROI in it, I didn't put all my emphasis into it. My biggest win, from it can be tied back to just under $200,000 commercially.

00:17:44:19 - 00:18:09:21
Ramon
Wow. Without, you know, going to too much data for obviously the privacy, of companies and clients and everything. But, I'll just say give you a bit of a hypothetical. So if you had the opportunity to essentially know everything about anything in any industry and market, we were able to use that to find to essentially narrow down on a particular industry.

00:18:09:21 - 00:18:32:22
Ramon
In this case, it was, education. I'm not saying anything more than that. But over a period of time, using AI to actually understand what was in, importance to this business and what their key, priorities were. When then when we sent an email to reach out to them, it was all written by AI based on what we knew was going to be important to them by their signals and conversations.

00:18:32:22 - 00:18:53:20
Ramon
Framework and flow was all supported through that. So the human brain wasn't taken out of it. But we had this trusty sidekick that was much smarter than I was, and a lot more time than me and average over a period of time, like the revenue. And the relationship is just grown, not because I'm using some sort of tool that's cheating, but I'm just really in tune with what they're trying to achieve.

00:18:53:20 - 00:18:58:20
Ramon
And you know how our business objectives converge to drive like, you know, great success by thought.

00:18:58:23 - 00:19:13:18
Davina
And that's that's the great thing about using AI as a tool, isn't it? Because it allows you to to distill things that you would normally see there and workshop and discuss in team meetings and go through and do analysis? It takes a long time hatching dinner, people getting everyone in a room, getting everyone out to a meeting.

00:19:13:18 - 00:19:18:04
Davina
Yeah. And then all of a sudden you could just spit it out and it can give you a vision. Yeah. And that's a starting point.

00:19:18:04 - 00:19:18:15
Ramon
That's it.

00:19:18:17 - 00:19:27:09
Davina
But that's it. It's a lot of time that goes into that starting point. So it's a nice way to be. Yeah. To be thinking about how people can use that. And that's really true. And there's no industry that that's not true of.

00:19:27:11 - 00:19:52:17
Aamir
So one key takeaway that I can just by listening to you is that if you are in a B2B situation where you want to build relationships, originally it took a lot of time to build that relationship. But now you can set up signals so that you get enough contextual information and provide better value to the client in terms of what they would be looking for, rather than having to guess it or spend a whole lot of time.

00:19:52:17 - 00:20:04:06
Aamir
That's all to do that. Yeah. That's it. I'd say it makes your offering, more, better for them. And you are solving a problem, which is actually their problem. Rather than trying to sell something which you don't, they don't need.

00:20:04:09 - 00:20:26:23
Ramon
Yeah. Yeah, 100%. I don't know if you recently saw, I think it was called the end of, end of humanity exam. That which, cabinet is the new Gemini tool? DeepMind went through, and it solved a math equation, I think, I think five or 4 or 5 different ways that obviously the smartest in the world, could solve it.

00:20:26:23 - 00:20:48:10
Ramon
So for me, what going back to like, the blank page analogy, one thing that I've had to implement myself and I encourage teams to is just having an AI first mindset. You know, when you need to write something down or start on something, there's a blank canvas is just that much harder. And so just bring AI to any situation, even if it can't full, do the whole task, right now, can I?

00:20:48:10 - 00:21:01:12
Ramon
Yeah. Essentially give you the framework to get started and I think whenever you've got a problem or a task or an opportunity, you just stop for a second. Can I help me here? I'm faster, quicker, better, more effective, and. Yeah.

00:21:01:13 - 00:21:06:14
Davina
Can I target this to the audience? Can I even give me. Can I give me a heads up?

00:21:06:15 - 00:21:07:04
Ramon
Yeah.

00:21:07:06 - 00:21:15:14
Davina
Yeah. Give me the first three steps. What should I be doing? Yeah. And when you're sitting there and you're blocked and you're busy and you've got a lot going on, then that can be a really a really helpful tool to have. Yeah.

00:21:15:14 - 00:21:37:12
Ramon
It is, it is for an interesting stage. So I think it's inhumanity. If you look at the bell curve of where AI is first, internet growth so so fast bit. When I was looking at some data I think yesterday, I think everyone is just living on AI 24 seven. But that's just me. I think because I'm in the media and I'm at the central point, I realize I'm more of an outlier and probably so are you.

00:21:37:12 - 00:21:45:11
Ramon
So I don't think most Australians are realizing, though, the speed of what? It's, what's it development? We think that it's so much faster than you think.

00:21:45:11 - 00:22:03:14
Davina
Yeah, it is, it really is. And if you look at particularly the, you know, the GPT is now versus the early days, then the new lanes, the frontier of AI is already really quickly moving into the space of will. How do we create. You talked about doing a custom GPT. Well that's that is at that frontier of AI.

00:22:03:14 - 00:22:22:09
Davina
Now is where we're starting to look at small data AI. So, you know, imagine a future where your AI lives on your phone, doesn't access any apps on information. It has access to it, but it doesn't allow your information out. So it starts to use your voice, your thought patterns, your prompting, and all of a sudden you've got something that you have control over.

00:22:22:09 - 00:22:47:10
Davina
So it's a bit more personalized. And so much of AI now is is moving into that space of how do we solve the problems of personalization, because we don't want to say something like, that's the point of the generalization is. That's right. And that, you know, being able to unleash that, that creativity and that imagination. Yeah. Because I can't do imagination, but, you know, it can do a whole lot of other stuff that blocks our imagination because the paperwork is mind numbing.

00:22:47:10 - 00:22:48:21
Davina
What did you call it? Robots in the first.

00:22:48:21 - 00:23:14:16
Aamir
Yes. Repeated obligatory boring operational tasks. Yeah, like like surrounded by those. But the point that you also raise about, like Australian economy and how we have always been traditionally slow, but it has not really affected us because the overall growth of internet, that rate has been slow. But we work with organizations in the UK, USA, Middle East, and we are seeing like the the amount of adoption that is there.

00:23:14:16 - 00:23:35:21
Aamir
Like almost every business, whether they are traditional business, manufacturing, construction, they are right. They are using AI in and out. Whereas over here we are still asking the basic questions about AI. So I think as, as a country, we are definitely much behind the whole world. And I would say this is quite concerning because the rate with which AI is growing is really fast.

00:23:35:23 - 00:23:53:24
Ramon
It's a huge risk if you don't. If you look at the, you know, the globally, economically, the US is obviously still got a bit of a lead in front of it in China. But if you look at the money getting thrown out, we're talking hundreds of billions of dollars with a B and, you know, artificial intelligence infrastructure across the world, like it's it's huge.

00:23:53:24 - 00:24:08:09
Ramon
And I think we can all sit back and complain and say it's going to take our jobs. And the reality is it will take some people's jobs. But one thing I found out before there were an alarm clock, you know what they were before alarm clocks, were they? There was a job called knockers. People will come and knock on the windows.

00:24:08:09 - 00:24:08:16
Ramon
Right.

00:24:08:16 - 00:24:10:20
Aamir
So I think you.

00:24:10:22 - 00:24:18:10
Ramon
Girls I know. Yeah. Wake up calls. What are those? Fake telephone connectors. What do they call the, you know, the code. Something to then to know the.

00:24:18:10 - 00:24:20:08
Davina
The operator's different.

00:24:20:10 - 00:24:23:11
Ramon
But then, you know, obviously it's just the humanity of all this, but I think.

00:24:23:13 - 00:24:42:16
Davina
Yeah. So it's going to be it's going to change jobs. It's going to change China. We were trying to change a lot of other things, but you otherwise maintained that from the beginning, the very early beginnings of AI, the point of AI being able to do repetitive tasks or to do things quicker, that we find difficult, process a lot of things in a really short period of time.

00:24:42:18 - 00:24:52:09
Davina
Basically the important stuff when we just turn around and go, you know, you said that, what's your job now? Basically, you're a problem solver. Yeah, that's what I realized today. It allows you to actually focus on the problem.

00:24:52:11 - 00:25:10:04
Aamir
My my thoughts on that. Jobs have actually changed a lot in the last six months. Like around six months ago, I wrote an article and I said, it's not coming for job. And like people who are going to use AI are going to steal your jobs, not AI, but then I have actually interacted with and met with a lot of people, like who actually lost their job because.

00:25:10:04 - 00:25:11:23

The organization job, that's what.

00:25:12:04 - 00:25:12:12
Aamir
It is.

00:25:12:12 - 00:25:14:01
Davina
And the next job going to be.

00:25:14:01 - 00:25:23:16
Aamir
Yes. And these are not like administrative jobs, like people who are in creative jobs. I've seen technical creators, designers, coders like people at management level lose and.

00:25:23:16 - 00:25:26:11
Davina
Go and have that conversation in Hollywood at the moment with, you know.

00:25:26:13 - 00:25:27:17
Ramon
100%. Yeah.

00:25:27:18 - 00:25:30:05
Aamir
So it's it's kind of you be really into.

00:25:30:07 - 00:25:45:12
Davina
That question is what is your next job going to be. Yeah. Because, you know, it wasn't that long ago that such a thing as a social media manager wasn't a job. That's right. So a lot of the jobs that have actually developed in the last 15 years were never jobs. And that's going to speed up now. Yeah, the kind of jobs that are there.

00:25:45:12 - 00:25:58:04
Davina
But it doesn't mean that there's going to be less jobs because less jobs would mean less opportunity, less productivity, less less chat, less things to do, less problems to solve. We don't have less problems to solve. We've got bigger problems to. So yeah.

00:25:58:09 - 00:26:08:16
Ramon
I think it's just really exciting. I think it gives opportunity from people like in generalists to turn into specialists in some fields. Yeah. So I think a lot in total, rather than.

00:26:08:16 - 00:26:17:02
Davina
Having to sit there and do the amount of training time that you would need to do, the amount of time you need to sit in an industry to really pick up the pieces. You can learn a lot, really fast now.

00:26:17:02 - 00:26:35:00
Ramon
Yeah. Focus on value creation. Yeah. I get to spend more time on doing what I do best and right. That's human interaction, you know, that's working with people and delivering value to the business and to companies. And that's what I enjoy doing. I also enjoy, you know, having to spend 45 minutes every night working at my to do list.

00:26:35:00 - 00:26:57:02
Ramon
And I can go and play with my kids. So there's so many benefits to it. But I think personally, being on the far right, it presents an exciting or a super exciting opportunity. Probably the most I've seen in my lifetime, if you think about it. Right, we've got companies getting sold for a couple of billions of dollars, and these are just people in their 2030s and 40s between a few people.

00:26:57:07 - 00:27:18:12
Ramon
Right? Three people of us. Yeah. You know, a few billion dollars. Right. So what I think that presents is a huge opportunity. You know, even with some of the thoughts and the things that I'm dabbling into, if you asked me a year ago, would I be building an app? I would say, no way in health, right? But the skills that you wouldn't technically natively have, like AI, gives you that to essentially connect to.

00:27:18:12 - 00:27:28:04
Ramon
You know, your thoughts and what you want to do and where you see gaps in the market to actually into execution in a cost effective way, really. So it's it's pretty amazing to me.

00:27:28:06 - 00:27:49:11
Aamir
Yeah, yeah. And it goes back to the point that you raised about how you think it improved your creativity or enhance it. And what I found personally, myself is that it has allowed me to uncover things or be play in those spaces. What I traditionally saw as my weaknesses, and being able to use AI to actually be able to do that.

00:27:49:16 - 00:28:14:20
Aamir
So essentially, if you are a person who knows how to delegate and who knows how to make AI work and have got right ideas, then you can do a whole lot of things that you could not because you had some challenges and you talked about like development, development is a very good example of how if you had an idea previously, you would go to a developer like us and say, can you develop an app will charge you $200,000 to develop an app, but no real.

00:28:14:22 - 00:28:17:17
Ramon
So really what you charge tundra? Okay. Yes, yes, yes.

00:28:17:19 - 00:28:31:15
Aamir
I like to develop like a full fledged app starts at 3040 K what can go up to 200 K, or more than that? We have charged like half a million as well. But then now you can use thing like, you were using lovable.

00:28:31:17 - 00:28:51:19
Ramon
Yeah. Like vibe coding. Yes. I thought it was just a funny name at the start, but being able to code, right. Obviously is it's a it's a skill. Right? Like Lem said, able to do, you know, to a certain level, like I would have never thought on a day to day basis, if you ask me, a lot of my top apps, I would say clawed code, like, I would never say that.

00:28:51:22 - 00:29:10:11
Ramon
Right. But it's just so it's crazy because an example of where I've got real live value out of it that's not related to work, is I used to pay over $100 a week for online fitness trainer. Yeah, right. This is actually where I sell. The biggest amount of value for AI is I started thinking, this is too much.

00:29:10:11 - 00:29:27:21
Ramon
My wife's cracking it like we got a mortgage. You shouldn't be spending that much money for my party. I hope he doesn't listen to this if he does. But I started experimenting by getting my WhatsApp logs with him and putting it into a notebook. LM at the time I then ChatGPT and actually measuring who is giving me better results.

00:29:27:21 - 00:29:44:01
Ramon
I interact the same way. Over a period of time. I started seeing that I was actually, delivering me a better ROI. I ended up cutting the train up and that's been like the last six months, that I'm in better shape and better results than I was with him. I'm not saying that I was. It was any better for my wallet.

00:29:44:01 - 00:29:58:12
Ramon
Obviously. I like definitely better off. And now I'm in the process of launching the product to market, hopefully. And it's just something it's a good example of like a tool, like loveable or above all, just puts opportunities in people's hands that you never thought would be there. Yeah.

00:29:58:14 - 00:30:01:16
Aamir
You talked about a lot of tools over here for SAS Cloud Code.

00:30:01:20 - 00:30:02:04
Ramon
Yeah.

00:30:02:04 - 00:30:04:23
Aamir
So can you tell about what what cloud code is?

00:30:04:23 - 00:30:25:11
Ramon
Yes. I'm still trying to figure that out, but I am. But what I do know is it's it's amazing. So yeah, for my understanding, correct me if I'm wrong, but it essentially gives the coding to capabilities into the everyday person's hands because you can interact with it through Lambda. I don't need to know how to, you know, use Python to get it to execute local, things on my computer.

00:30:25:11 - 00:30:49:22
Ramon
So on a day to day basis, how I'm using it at the moment is if I think about okay. Yeah, great. So in my current company, there's a whole heap of data, I've got to deal with and some of it that's not confidential. And, you know, it might be external report reports or company reports. A big part of my role is collating information and, you know, presenting it to executives and boards and making sure the picture is, is there.

00:30:49:22 - 00:31:15:08
Ramon
So instead of building out presentations now, I will get code, code to build out HTML interactive dashboards. That's got market intelligence, you know, risk tools and financial modeling that they can, pull out that takes me maybe ten, 15 minutes to put together that previously pulling a deck, putting it together like we're talking five, six hours. And not to mention people's face drop when they say, like, is this a website?

00:31:15:10 - 00:31:35:20
Ramon
Yeah. No, it's just how to email code. Bet clawed code builds it out and it's super quick and great. And for me as well, another thing I use it for is, I'm constantly downloading things that are on my, my PC, my documents, and it's so, so messy. Client files organization. So I've built I'd not script and it just organizes my calendar.

00:31:35:22 - 00:31:44:14
Ramon
Organizes my files locally. In just case, when I completed my computer, like, you know, nice and tidy, it's just the small things that create mental clutter for me I don't have to think about.

00:31:44:16 - 00:31:47:08
Aamir
So how many courses did you do to learn all of this?

00:31:47:08 - 00:31:54:00
Ramon
I guess not too many to count. None. Wow. Nice. That's the thing, right? So something in.

00:31:54:00 - 00:31:55:14
Davina
Play. Hey, jump in and play.

00:31:55:15 - 00:32:15:09
Ramon
Jump into play. So there is a big I think there's a big like I think where people are struggling at the moment, I know I do is if you think about it, back in the day we would have encyclopedias, we would have big books, you know, carrying them to school and getting information was a little hard. And then obviously the internet came around and we'd have to search ten different sites.

00:32:15:09 - 00:32:34:02
Ramon
And we think it was amazing. And it is. But I think the problem humanity's got at the moment is information overload. We've all got too much. And I, I think for most people, from what we see from surveys, it just gives them anxiety. Where do I start? Is it ChatGPT? I hear about code, I hear about, you know, perplexity, whatever it is, where do I start?

00:32:34:02 - 00:32:55:18
Ramon
So I think it's really important that, yes, there are a lot of courses out there. I think it's course courses for AI is like six six growth at the moment. But how do you find courses that you're not just kind of able to walk out of and think, oh, I understand, you know, how an line is program versus how am I going to use, an or AI today to actually drive value in my life tomorrow?

00:32:55:18 - 00:33:12:12
Davina
And that's exactly the question, isn't it? It's it's that idea is, you know, if we're going to use it, we need to understand it. And that's actually not true. Yeah. So I would use the context of working with AI experts, people who are building AI systems. They're not experts in the in the use case that it need to be.

00:33:12:12 - 00:33:27:22
Davina
They need to understand the technology. They need to understand the context. They need to understand the restrictions and the boxes that they need to put around that, and then what the output needs to be. And very specifically, the biggest question that always comes up is how are the people that are going to use these? What do they need?

00:33:27:24 - 00:33:44:00
Davina
Because if this is a tool that doesn't work with the person and how they work and their workflows, then it's not gonna work. Yeah. So they're not they're not saying they stopping everything. I'm going to go and understand how to be a neurosurgeon. Not that we work in space, for instance. They don't have time to do that.

00:33:44:03 - 00:33:50:20
Davina
That's right. You're the expert. We'll build something. You tell us how it works, we'll all play together, we'll figure it out. And then.

00:33:50:22 - 00:34:11:08
Aamir
And you talked about. Course, I know a great course by a very amazing person called, You get those? Yeah. So as a business leader, if you want to get started on that journey, you can download the monkey app. Go to monkey Dot AI and access the free course that's there. That's a bit lower than your level.

00:34:11:10 - 00:34:14:03
Aamir
I think, you are at a level much higher than that.

00:34:14:03 - 00:34:15:11
Davina
And that is an easy access point.

00:34:15:12 - 00:34:20:01
Aamir
It is? Yes. Like it gives you exactly what you need to do to get started on that journey.

00:34:20:01 - 00:34:38:10
Davina
I think that's a I think it's a really important message is don't be afraid of the stuff that you don't know. Assume that there's going to be a world of it that you don't know, but jump in applied because you figure it out. Yeah, totally. And otherwise you just can if you if you're going to stop there and keep worrying about the things you do know, the things that we don't know, which is growing, they going really fast.

00:34:38:12 - 00:34:40:06
Davina
We can't know them all. So and that's.

00:34:40:06 - 00:34:42:05
Ramon
Okay. Yeah. Totally understand this.

00:34:42:11 - 00:34:46:23
Davina
And don't put anything in that. You don't want to be able to find a Google. That's fine. Don't forget that. Keep it simple.

00:34:46:24 - 00:35:02:02
Aamir
Well I would say like if you are going with an enterprise AI like copilot 365, I would say it's fairly secure. Yes, because they have it. Everything contained in there. Yeah. I wouldn't trust like likes of ChatGPT to do do not.

00:35:02:04 - 00:35:03:16
Davina
Put your business AI opinions attractive.

00:35:03:20 - 00:35:04:09
Aamir
That's right.

00:35:04:09 - 00:35:06:10
Davina
Yes, yes. That would be a T-shirt, right.

00:35:06:12 - 00:35:26:03
Aamir
Yes, yes. Like there's still some privacy settings in there which which can prevent that. But again, it depends on what level of business you are at. And now we have, we are seeing some so there are like open source large language models like Mistral and Llama that you can download and actually have it on your own servers.

00:35:26:05 - 00:35:42:19
Aamir
And that ensures that nothing goes out. And like there's one of the startups that, Brandon Burns, one of, local guys over here he's actually working with. It's called New. Sorry, Brandon, I can't remember the name. But.

00:35:42:21 - 00:35:44:13
Davina
Brandon is going to message you after this. Yes.

00:35:44:15 - 00:35:45:14
Ramon
And he's.

00:35:45:16 - 00:36:04:15
Aamir
So we'll get back to it. But it's, but we link provide link to it as well. And that's something that you can actually use and like download and have it within your own servers. But I just saw that a startup has raised money here in Australia to develop our own large language model as well. So it would be good to see that space.

00:36:04:20 - 00:36:06:23
Davina
Yeah. And this place is going to evolve really, really fast.

00:36:06:23 - 00:36:09:08
Ramon
So go faster than we now are really.

00:36:09:10 - 00:36:19:14
Aamir
So one of the questions that I have for you is like, because you have been in and out of the media industry as well, and you have, been in this space as well. How do you see a lot.

00:36:19:15 - 00:36:22:15
Ramon
Of media people? Yeah, I.

00:36:22:15 - 00:36:24:23
Davina
Just read a thought.

00:36:25:02 - 00:36:25:15
Ramon
That.

00:36:25:16 - 00:36:31:23
Aamir
You guys are the right people to talk about because the technologies out there, it's actually about the implementation of how you use it. Yeah.

00:36:31:23 - 00:36:34:04
Davina
You don't have to be media to second guess. You just get a guy.

00:36:34:05 - 00:36:44:15
Aamir
That's right. So how do you guys think it's going to transform the the media industry? And what are some of the things that people in this industry should be be thinking about.

00:36:44:17 - 00:36:45:15
Ramon
On their own? Let you go first?

00:36:45:16 - 00:37:04:13
Davina
Yeah, absolutely. Well, I think from a from a person working at the at the creative end. So I'm about writers, photographers, the content creators that are actually putting that content out there. The first thing I would say is if you're not, if you're not using it, you're doing yourself out of a job because speed and accuracy is everything.

00:37:04:15 - 00:37:32:15
Davina
Yeah. And that ability to be able to challenge your own thinking to to use AI to set up not only to help you with the content, the producing. So run it through filters, keep bouncing back, but also to to start asking some really interesting questions, because so much of what we do, and I come from a journalism background, so much of what you do as a journalist is absorb enormous amounts of information, trying distill it down, try and find the patterns and the threads that are in there, and then try and find what we don't know.

00:37:32:17 - 00:37:49:01
Davina
And no one knows what you don't know. So you've just got to ask a lot of questions. And AI is brilliant at that. AI is brilliant at being able to distill information down. And then you can ask it five, ten, 15 different ways. Tell me what I'm not thinking about here or is there, is there a connection between this and this?

00:37:49:01 - 00:38:12:13
Davina
Or, find me the pattern that relates to this subject and see what comes up. Because getting creative more and being able to ask those questions a little bit deeper, in more interesting ways, is actually how we're going to create content that's useful, because the the threat of AI is that it can create content in seconds, and it can do you out of a job.

00:38:12:15 - 00:38:28:02
Davina
A lot of that content is going to be homogenized. A lot of the content that's out there right now has come through, and I like it. So it can be really homogenized, lots of repetitive things. Lots of you know, Google loves a list. So right, here's the top five, blah blah. He's the top ten, blah blah. It's like, yeah, okay.

00:38:28:04 - 00:38:47:16
Davina
But if we're going to move beyond that and I would suggest that that kind of content creates a negative funnel. Yeah. So it's going to bring in a lot of stuff at the top, but it's to spitting people out. And you're going to get to a point where your information becomes more, more homogenized. It's beginning very much a feedback loop.

00:38:47:18 - 00:39:04:21
Davina
And then we lose the value of journalism. What's the value of media in the first place? The value of media in the first place is to disseminate information that you haven't heard before and ask interesting questions. So start asking interesting questions. And AI is great at being able to challenge people to ask interesting questions.

00:39:04:23 - 00:39:21:09
Ramon
Yeah, yeah, I very much agree. I think, in this sort of space where there's technology, you can, you know, just it can come up with new ideas, it can warp ideas. I think, you know, trusted forms of media is really important. Like that goes back to generative AI as well. I was trying to while you were talking, I was trying to think of the brand.

00:39:21:09 - 00:39:37:14
Ramon
I think it was a US based, media business called The Atlantic. Yes. And they released like a whole publication and, it went fantastic. It was one of the highest subscription. Yes, stories. But we found that then they essentially came to market and said it was great. But all the stories are fake.

00:39:37:14 - 00:39:42:04
Davina
Absolutely. They kind of. Yeah, this was I, I, this is I can't yeah. It was like so.

00:39:42:04 - 00:39:46:24
Ramon
I think we're not at the stage where I yeah I can, you know, replace journalists or anything. I don't think that.

00:39:47:02 - 00:40:03:05
Davina
But what it can do is it can respond. It can. So what the Atlantic story is a great one, because what that actually showed is that what I can do really well and really cleverly is pick up on trends, pick up on patterns. Because of course, all AI, all machine learning is built on pattern recognition. That's where it comes from.

00:40:03:07 - 00:40:22:05
Davina
So it can pick up on the patterns of what are people interested in, what's going to hit, what's going to get you a really, you know, what's going to get you a lot of media is eyeballs, right? And so media was attention. We could we know what's going to to pique people's attention. So we'll produce this content and it's going to respond to people's attention.

00:40:22:09 - 00:40:47:02
Davina
And it did. So the exercise worked. But what happens if you keep doing that. So the AI models then learn on. Well, these are the things to get people's attention. If it bleeds, it leads. We're going to keep repeating that same story or variations of that story, which means that the pool of information that we're pulling from is smaller the output or the kind of content, the kind of information we're pulling out there is smaller.

00:40:47:04 - 00:40:51:15
Davina
And isn't that the opposite of what we should be doing in a world where the information is all over that fingertips?

00:40:51:19 - 00:40:53:16
Ramon
Yeah, I totally agree. Yeah.

00:40:53:18 - 00:40:58:12
Davina
Trust and thought and imagination that creativity. Yeah. Because that's that challenge to.

00:40:58:14 - 00:41:28:10
Aamir
So from a perspective of a consumer I guess the challenge is that earlier we would all consume media from like watching TV or newspapers and things like that. Then we started to do Google searches and then finding it on the internet and still opening up the websites. But like, I find myself always using something like perplexity or asking ChatGPT about the information and then sometimes rarely, if I don't find that information, then I'll go and actually check that content as well.

00:41:28:10 - 00:41:28:17
Aamir
I ask you.

00:41:28:17 - 00:41:41:11
Davina
To a question about that. We've talked a lot about perplexity, versus just going to a Google search and various other things. What's interesting, I think, in that is that this is a subscription model.

00:41:41:13 - 00:41:42:07
Ramon


00:41:42:09 - 00:41:48:23
Davina
So my question is, what are people going to be willing to pay for in the age of AI? Yeah, it's a good question.

00:41:49:00 - 00:41:58:15
Ramon
I think it all goes back to the amount of value it's going to deliver. I just signed up to something that is cost me just under $400 a month. My wife does not know, but.

00:41:58:17 - 00:41:58:24
Davina
Yet.

00:41:59:05 - 00:42:12:10
Ramon
Honestly, like organizing data and spreadsheets, it takes a lot of time. So there's this a new tool. What's it called? After link it after, I bet. I think this is I excel. I can't remember the exact.

00:42:12:12 - 00:42:14:12
Aamir
What's that? Is it shortcuts Excel?

00:42:14:14 - 00:42:49:14
Ramon
It may be, but essentially look at it. So it did a bit of an average study. It's what it takes people nine hours if you know continuous Excel work and formulas down to an average of 9 to 13 minutes. So I don't know if you, any of you can relate, but in my my drive, my folders, I've got all this random information I have mail to put together for years over the last couple of hours since yesterday, the amount of information that's been crystallized to that end, make ability to link that back directly to a business benefit over a personal benefit is been unfounded.

00:42:49:14 - 00:43:08:06
Ramon
Like it's absolutely amazing some of the value it's been able to provide to me, some of the, the modeling financially is been pretty interesting. So going back to how much would you pay for it? I would have never said I paid $400 to help me with Excel, but it's not Excel, it's the value that Excel can provide to me that essentially I would never have to have before.

00:43:08:06 - 00:43:09:18
Ramon
So to open it to question, I think.

00:43:09:22 - 00:43:18:07
Aamir
Yeah, yeah. And like something like perplexity is free to get started on and I used perplexity free for a long time until I got addicted to it.

00:43:18:07 - 00:43:23:22
Davina
And I encourage people to use free versions. Yes. If I trial. Yes.

00:43:23:22 - 00:43:44:07
Aamir
And especially it's perplexity because you're not putting information you are asking it for information. So it's actually fetching the information and bringing it back. So for example, if you need an information about a product that you want to purchase, rather than going to five different sides, you can just ask it to create a table. It can go and find the real prices, find the reviews and comparison.

00:43:44:07 - 00:44:06:10
Aamir
It can provide you with that information itself. So from that perspective, that perplexity is great. But the question that I want you to understand is, in this day and age when people would be using AI to ask questions and consume information, what does, the role of media looks like, and how does media needs to evolve in terms of being able to interact with AI?

00:44:06:12 - 00:44:30:09
Ramon
I think the biggest opportunity for media, but I think all businesses and we've they everyone needs to pivot. If they're not already there asleep at the wheel. It's consumption habits, right? If you think about once upon a time or fair a lot of Australians still you go to Google and you look in search. But even the Google, playing fields of, you know, all organic ads, all of that is fundamentally changing.

00:44:30:09 - 00:44:53:18
Ramon
So if anyone has hired a consultant and spends hundreds of thousands of dollars on customer journey, all of that things soon enough will need to go in the bin. I think the risk for big media organizations and News Corp is on the front foot of it is, how are we going to connect to the consumer moving forward? Because the disruption that we're facing is something that we couldn't have really have a plan for.

00:44:53:18 - 00:45:20:21
Ramon
So I think that is the key thing. I think we've got to find companies, have got to find ways to maintain strong relationships with their consumers, their customers, their readers, whatever it may be. So I think just that part to purchase and how we're going to interact with media moving forward is going to change. I think the there's a bit of risk in terms of, you know, trust, because in the days of AI and so much technology in someone's hands, there is a lot of a lot more of individual content creators.

00:45:20:21 - 00:45:33:21
Ramon
And it's really important in any society to have that trusted source of news and content for any, you know, society to operate at any, you know, level that needs to be trusted. In the Western world or whatever it is.

00:45:33:21 - 00:45:42:09
Davina
And I think one of the one of the key roles that media is that we need media to play is to challenge. Yeah. And and.

00:45:42:10 - 00:45:43:16
Ramon
Dangerous failure.

00:45:43:18 - 00:46:03:03
Davina
Absolutely. And to hold accountable. So traditionally media would have been holding governments to account, would have been holding business to account. Now it needs to be holding the technology to account on the technology creators to account, because that's what we need. We need people who can stand there and think critically and look at what's happening and say, actually, have we thought about this?

00:46:03:05 - 00:46:16:23
Davina
Where's the ethical considerations? Tell me the story of the person that's actually being damaged, as well as the people that being helped. Like we all love it, you know, we love a good news story, but really that's that was the role of the media was to turn around and inform and. Yeah, and to hold accountable.

00:46:16:23 - 00:46:33:00
Ramon
It needs to be there to the tech giants because I'm huge and I, of course. But I think the things that we need to be wary of is I think I've read a piece of research that more and more Gen Z are using it as a therapist, right? Yes. Which is interesting, and I probably use it to some extent as well.

00:46:33:01 - 00:46:54:24
Ramon
But if you think about things that, you know, I don't know if I can talk about this on the podcast, but suicidal ideation when people are extremely upset. So, yeah, I just sincerely say commit. So I've been it has been shown to, not pick up the things like, where's my closest friend? You know, questions that could be leading.

00:46:54:24 - 00:47:09:19
Davina
It doesn't live social media platforms have been. So this is that feedback loop that we were talking about before that when that when certain themes come up, then it will continually feedback loop that. And when do you not want that to happen. So in the space of mental health, we absolutely do not want like negative feedback loops.

00:47:09:19 - 00:47:33:19
Davina
That can be really damaging. And then the flip side of it is, well where's that. Where's the humans in the room. Yeah. Where are the journalists. Where the the media outlets that turn around and say actually, I can also help with this. So there are, you know, there are experts in the field. We don't have enough mental health clinicians, mental health conditions at the pointy end at the expert NZ Black Dog Institute.

00:47:33:21 - 00:47:50:11
Davina
A whole lot of research institutes are working with AI to say if we can't get in front of people when they need us, if we can't be the person right at that time, how do we at least flag risk? How do we understand it? But how do you even find that information if you don't have journalists in there to to point?

00:47:50:12 - 00:47:58:12
Davina
If you don't have media organizations to point to both the good and the bad here. So it's it's, it's shining is that that's the job of the media is to shine a light on. Yes.

00:47:58:13 - 00:47:59:05
Ramon


00:47:59:07 - 00:48:11:10
Aamir
And then you talked about consumption of content like I subscribe to a lot of media outlets. But then I would pick up Geelong ad, but I won't read the whole newspaper because I don't have time. Like my dad would just sit every day and.

00:48:11:12 - 00:48:12:12
Davina
Read a book about a cover.

00:48:12:16 - 00:48:38:12
Aamir
But I would just sort of pick up things that I want to read. But again, now I have got an agent personally who sort of like scans the paper and give me the, the, the right news. But imagine having a tool and could be a startup idea that could actually scan these media outlets. You're still paying for the subscription, but based on your interest and your idea, that can give you the the the actual news that you need to know and not worry about everything else.

00:48:38:12 - 00:48:52:01
Ramon
Yeah, that's a good point. You raise because I think about traditional media, you know, that is true. Newspapers, broadcast radio thing. When digital came along, everyone was sort of challenged by the Google's and Facebook.

00:48:52:06 - 00:48:54:13
Davina
And our attention time and central time went right.

00:48:54:17 - 00:49:11:22
Ramon
Significantly down. But the you know, the big the big, big challenges at the moment is what you're referring to is aggregators. Yes. Right. So it's no longer that, you know, we would have to necessarily just cut a good, deal with Google or Apple News. But ChatGPT, you know, they've got their news aggregators, which is which is pretty crazy.

00:49:11:22 - 00:49:39:18
Ramon
But if you just quickly jump back to, the trusted content piece, I think one thing that's really, really important is whilst AI gives everyone power, there is a level of decentralization across the world happening. But ultimately the big three, big 3 or 4 tech, platforms out there, power is going back to them. If you think about like the cross, the cross, the world, which many people talk about in Australia, I think before DeepMind, it was the most powerful.

00:49:39:18 - 00:49:52:19
Ramon
But yes, Elon Musk was shown to be, you know, checking, a lot of the reactions and commentary based on his Twitter posts. So, yeah, that's I think it does put power into a lot of people's hands, but it can anything it can be used for good or bad.

00:49:52:24 - 00:50:13:20
Davina
When you were talking earlier about value and what people would value in terms of what they might spend their money on, I think the value in terms of where they put their time is going to be an essential part of media as well, and it will fundamentally change media, because when everything is a potential story, what's worth being a story and what's worth your time listening, watching, hearing it, that's where it becomes really interesting.

00:50:13:22 - 00:50:23:07
Davina
So we're we're starting to to look at value propositions. Whereas previously we'd have thoughts that, yeah, we'd outsource that to to media to other content creators.

00:50:23:09 - 00:50:42:03
Aamir
And also is there an opportunity for media to again, think of broadly rather than saying, okay, we are a print media. So think about, okay, we are storytellers and now we can actually use AI to better tell those stories. So you can still have like the, the, the, the text version. But we can convert them into audios or videos or.

00:50:42:03 - 00:50:43:12
Aamir
Yeah, or games that.

00:50:43:13 - 00:50:51:16
Davina
Contribute to these. Yeah. You can find you can find those stories or you can find areas where you can go and search for them in the event.

00:50:51:18 - 00:50:55:00
Aamir
But also tweak it on the basis of people's level and the open.

00:50:55:02 - 00:51:12:23
Davina
Source that used to have to walk around and try and find where the the access was to, to stories and then sit down and chase people for interviews and then sit down and write it and then bring in a photographer. These are really time consuming processes. So we're having to we're able to speed those up, which means that finding stories and then telling them.

00:51:13:00 - 00:51:31:21
Ramon
We're sort of looking at, oh, I totally agree with what you're saying. And, we don't even look at it anymore as, a platform, a little platform agnostic. We're much more focused on the audience. Where's the audience? What do they need to know? What do they need to hear? And our job is essentially to deliver to them in any shape, form or method.

00:51:31:23 - 00:51:54:15
Ramon
That's needed. But in terms of, you know, audiences, I think, you know, personalization, more and more consumers are going to want personalized news. And I think that's one of the things perplexity does really well, in my job. And I think, you know, most people in business have got to read a fair bit of news. So, when I pick up the Herald Sun or the Chilling Advertiser or News.com, I read content and I enjoy it and I love it.

00:51:54:15 - 00:52:14:06
Ramon
But one thing that I think Lexi does really well is I can get some of that information that is not behind a paywall. It's free, freely accessible, but it's enable. It enables you to be customized to you. So if I get the news, I automatically customize alerts for what, why, when? So what does that mean for me and how do I applied in my day to day basis.

00:52:14:06 - 00:52:29:21
Ramon
And what does it mean for my company? And then it turns from news to actionable insights, which I find really, really cool. Yeah, I think another opportunity for a lot of media organizations is to just sort of embrace some of those AI technologies like that. Is it called late elevens, or is that the clothing brand?

00:52:29:21 - 00:52:31:17
Davina
Yeah, the 11 is the brand.

00:52:31:23 - 00:53:03:08
Ramon
Is the AI brand? No. 11 1111 last. Yeah. Right. So if you think about some of the, the levels of technicalities they can provide with audio is just absolutely amazing. So when you're talking about everyone being able to listen to content, I think that provides, low level, barrier to entry for most organizations to test and trial with, to, you know, all the way up to enterprise level that there's so many pieces of technology that we can be using to help us move faster and, be more efficient is just how to cut through the noise.

00:53:03:08 - 00:53:05:22
Ramon
I think that's the number one problem. All of us are going to face.

00:53:06:01 - 00:53:22:11
Aamir
One thing that we have started to do or try in our case, is when we send out newsletters because we send it out from our CRM. They were like generally one piece of newsletters, but we have added a section which is what does it mean for you? So it actually picks up who that person is, what their role is, what their client is.

00:53:22:17 - 00:53:38:02
Aamir
We still have the newsletter like the news in there, but it sort of summarize it and says, what does this news means to you? So a lot of people and we were seeing the analytics, a lot of people would jump and wouldn't read the whole newsletter, but look at the very bottom and just sort of understand, okay, what does it mean for me?

00:53:38:06 - 00:53:45:16
Aamir
Yeah. And I, I guess if like, that's where the media can, can go toward it just makes it more accessible for everyone.

00:53:45:19 - 00:54:01:11
Ramon
Yeah. Yeah. Very much I agree it's a changing space. So yeah, I think we've all got to evolve with it. We don't need to be, you know the type A over here. It's okay. You don't need to. But you can be that person that wants to live under a rock because one day you will wake up and go well, to to fundamentally changed.

00:54:01:11 - 00:54:04:12
Ramon
And I know that's probably not a popular opinion.

00:54:04:14 - 00:54:05:12
Davina
I agree that.

00:54:05:14 - 00:54:05:17
Ramon
It.

00:54:05:17 - 00:54:23:10
Davina
Needs more things. We can't avoid the change. And certainly in Australia we have been slow at adopting. But yeah, but then we have the opportunity also in Australia that we're actually pretty good when we, when we, when we hit on a niche, we tend to do really well. And that's kind of cool because in, in the world of we're, I always developing so fast.

00:54:23:10 - 00:54:52:08
Davina
Yeah, we are never going to compete with America, China, the big infrastructure spenders. There's big technology spenders. We just aren't. Yeah. So where do we compete. We compete by getting really good in these areas that add value. Yeah. And that is that value proposition. And to a certain extent that applies I think, to the media as well in the way that we think about that, is that if all you're doing is getting all of your information through AI at sorry, AI models, yeah, they're trying to think and to respond.

00:54:52:08 - 00:55:06:16
Davina
As we talk about in the first in the first episode, they they're trying to give you something that you want. So that's how I works. It is oh, you like it? I'll give you more of that. Yeah. But the value of the media, we're we're we need media to add value is to surprises. That's right. What's the things that we're not thinking about?

00:55:06:18 - 00:55:19:17
Davina
And I can do that so I can work together with that business that that great hallucinating factor that AI does, where it just makes me make stuff up, like, makes it up on the fly. That can generate ideas. A lot of that's rubbish. But it can also generate ideas.

00:55:19:22 - 00:55:37:04
Aamir
It sort of builds on the evil of social media. Like every one, social media feed is tailored to how they think. And you continue to watch that, and it sort of just puts you in that mindset. And now if your AI is trying to please you, it's going to give you more and more information, which is just focus on that.

00:55:37:06 - 00:55:43:01
Aamir
So the world that we are living in is already full of so much of hatred and laws.

00:55:43:01 - 00:56:00:13
Davina
And then so, so I think isn't that that when you think about that, you have the world of information available to you? Yeah. And you're seeing less and less diversity of information. That's problematic. So that's why we need media. We need creative thinkers. We need people who are going to challenge that, to say, actually, we need to step outside of that.

00:56:00:15 - 00:56:18:11
Ramon
But I think for all businesses, the two most important things is how do I make more money and how do I save on costs? And fundamentally, anyone that doesn't agree with me message me on LinkedIn and argue with me because I will like, defend this to the cows, come home in any sort of, shape and way that you can save money with.

00:56:18:11 - 00:56:38:21
Ramon
I think we give a really good fundamental example is video three. If you're familiar. Obviously, if you think about the level of quality Apple I can have, whilst it may not be studio level, it is still, you know, what 60 to 70% of the market will need. And I've seen advertising campaigns, not a News Corp, but I've seen, through it.

00:56:38:21 - 00:56:40:00
Aamir
You see the I.

00:56:40:02 - 00:56:40:14
Ramon
What's up.

00:56:40:20 - 00:56:50:21
Aamir
I done boxing, yes. So someone created an Ikea unboxing ad and said it's great because it starts with like, an empty room with an Ikea box. And then.

00:56:50:22 - 00:56:52:13
Ramon
The idea that I have, I have.

00:56:52:15 - 00:56:55:12
Aamir
And the whole room is filled with the funny turn. Everything.

00:56:55:12 - 00:56:55:17
Ramon
Yes.

00:56:55:19 - 00:56:58:14
Aamir
Just beautiful. All done with the.

00:56:58:16 - 00:57:17:22
Ramon
Yeah, it's it's just getting there. Right. So if you think about it, I don't think most people are fully aware of what level of quality, content you can produce. Video three I seen in business cases of, you know, cutting costs in production by 25 to 30%. And if anyone has done production before, you can understand how expensive it can be.

00:57:17:22 - 00:57:55:06
Ramon
Yeah. Not necessarily because even the software, time cost, it's time and it's labor intensive. It may not get you to the final output, but editing and trying to get to that 70% mark is is tough. Yeah it's tough. And to the creativity standpoint, coming up with new ideas. I'm a big fan of this sounds very cheesy, but like, you know, I think labs and what I mean by that is bring sessions, have these sessions and bring the problems that you can't necessarily solve for yourself or you don't necessarily sit on the solution, the decision we've made and set up a sporadic, challenging partner through AI and get it to ask you this challenging questions

00:57:55:06 - 00:58:04:17
Ramon
and when I've done that, I've come out of the room thinking completely differently. But the key is you've got to get the in front, to turning to Sadie.

00:58:04:18 - 00:58:20:01
Davina
I think we're going to keep coming back and back to that. Second thing is it's like prompts is is the new, you know, we we used to teach kids how to sort of read and write in school and, and do you know, we need to start teaching them prompting. We need to we need to be teaching people that the prompts really well and.

00:58:20:01 - 00:58:26:02
Davina
Yeah. And just and again, just jump in and start. Because one of the great things about AI is that it can teach you.

00:58:26:04 - 00:58:27:12
Ramon
Because again, you know.

00:58:27:14 - 00:58:35:16
Davina
You can ask I had to write a prompt for this and it will tell you. Yeah. Then you can learn from that. You don't need to even have all the language in front of you. You can use voice to text if you need to.

00:58:35:18 - 00:58:52:06
Ramon
It's pretty cool. Okay. Food, kids? My daughter's always asking me to bloody buy games from the app Store, right? So yesterday I'm like, you know, I'm not buying you a game. I'm going to teach you how to building. Oh, oh, oh. So we boy, she likes to pretend she's a news reporter. So we built a little game.

00:58:52:08 - 00:59:09:03
Ramon
It doesn't look like what you. You'd pub buy for a PlayStation for more like a Nintendo. But it took a ten, ten, 15 minutes of playing with it to make a little game. Right. And she thinks she's the coolest kid at right now. But if you think about is that right? I built that game. I really did. It's just pretty cool.

00:59:09:03 - 00:59:13:13
Ramon
Do you know what I mean? It's just the friendly aspects of life that can add value. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:59:13:15 - 00:59:26:17
Aamir
So to bring the conversation together, I'm a business leader listening to you, and I'm sort of because of how you have convinced us about the use of AI. Now I'm motivated. What are your thoughts about how do we how does.

00:59:26:17 - 00:59:27:04
Davina
Where do you start.

00:59:27:05 - 00:59:28:18
Aamir
Business leader get started here?

00:59:28:20 - 00:59:32:16
Ramon
Yeah, I think it all depends on where you are on that, pendulum. So.

00:59:32:16 - 00:59:47:12
Aamir
So I would give you that they have already used a bit of ChatGPT, a bit of copilot that's not giving them the the, the right answers. But now they want to take that next journey after that. Or they have used GPT but for personal stuff but not.

00:59:47:14 - 00:59:59:17
Davina
You might be writing their emails. You might be, you know, helping that with a, with a business proposal or something like that. But how can they how can I actually use it to save them time and unlock a bit of creativity and really start to play with it?

00:59:59:19 - 01:00:25:21
Ramon
I think, one thing that's going to stop them spinning their wheels right away is we may have mentioned ten different tools in this podcast. Don't go and subscribe to all of them. Even though I do. That's I'm guilty of it. But you'll find your time spinning your wheels and not actually gaining value. The best AI is the tool that you're going to use repeatedly, and when you use that tool repeatedly in all different aspects, you're going to find different ways to, find value.

01:00:25:21 - 01:00:44:05
Ramon
Because value for everyone is different from May to you. But there are different common themes. Obviously you tapped on the writing piece, which is, yeah, obviously, a key point, but if I had to pick probably a few different things that they just have to master, it's going to start with a P and end with the T. Prompt.

01:00:44:07 - 01:01:02:13
Ramon
Right. You need to learn how to prompt, if you don't have a, like a prompting spreadsheet, one good hack that I can tell you that will help you, consistently even just ask the, ChatGPT. I'm looking to say xyzzy. Can you give me the best prompt for that? And, write the prompt for you? Super basic.

01:01:02:13 - 01:01:20:06
Ramon
It may take you 30s, but I'll guarantee you've got the right input so you get the great, output. And then I think going back to pick 1 or 2 tools that you're going to use and stick with it and find a way for it to generate value if it's not going to, give you value in ten, 15 minutes of playing with it, it's probably not the right tool.

01:01:20:06 - 01:01:48:03
Ramon
But the key tools out there, obviously at the moment is, ChatGPT. Really good for that expressive thinking, unlocking thoughts. It's, it's it's really good at and, links into different types of software. Claude is probably my favorite tool. Yeah. Covid would be specifically in a business context in terms of long form. Content. And you need a really strong reasoning, specifically, if you're in a field where you've got to make a lot of critical decisions.

01:01:48:03 - 01:02:07:11
Ramon
I think Claude is really, really cool as a bit of a thinking partner. I think whenever you've got to, you're uneasy about something, or even if you think you've made a good decision, if that data is private, don't put it in, but anonymize it. If you're going to put it in and get, you know, find new ways of doing what you do already and see how you can move faster with the use of AI.

01:02:07:15 - 01:02:28:08
Ramon
So yeah. ChatGPT Claude perplexity. If you're not using perplexity, you have to. That is a non-negotiable subscription and just play with it. You'll quickly understand it is essentially Google on steroids that's customized to you. Comma browser. That's getting a little bit. You don't need that right now, but I'd probably say get across a few core lines, start using them.

01:02:28:08 - 01:02:30:12
Aamir
And that's a great suggestion. And yeah, I'm.

01:02:30:12 - 01:02:31:18
Davina
Good at that. What you're using it for.

01:02:31:19 - 01:02:32:07
Ramon
Yes.

01:02:32:10 - 01:02:34:01
Davina
So I don't just use it for the same thing.

01:02:34:01 - 01:02:42:06
Ramon
Then I first mindset I keep saying that, but I don't think anyone, gets it when I say it. Yeah. When you have a thought and you want to do something, stop.

01:02:42:08 - 01:02:43:01
Davina
You know, I.

01:02:43:05 - 01:02:44:09
Ramon
Ask, I can do.

01:02:44:12 - 01:03:02:10
Aamir
And that's what I said in one of the internal team trainings last year is like, whenever you are starting your day or starting to do a task, think about, can I actually use AI to do that and start with that and then move on to do something after that? So what you talked about is like two main elements.

01:03:02:10 - 01:03:19:19
Aamir
I would say, well, Brexit stands on its own as a, as a, an alternative to Google search. Definitely encourage everyone to use that even with the free version. And then pick one of the assistants, either a copilot if you're using it for your business, or ChatGPT your cloud and just get started and then go from there. Yeah.

01:03:19:23 - 01:03:30:11
Ramon
Oh carry on a great. They do different roles so different purposes. But the best AI is going to be the tool that you use. Yeah. So you rather only have two tools and ten if you're going to get you out of them.

01:03:30:13 - 01:03:32:10
Aamir
But if you want to have fun you can have fun.

01:03:32:10 - 01:03:33:07
Ramon
Yeah. That's different.

01:03:33:07 - 01:03:37:24
Davina
Yeah. 12 months later. Yeah. Ramona, new you're in a situation ship with AI.

01:03:38:01 - 01:03:40:04
Ramon
Yeah. That's right.

01:03:40:06 - 01:03:44:09
Davina
Ramona, thank you so much for joining us. This has been an awesome conversation. Thanks so much fun.

01:03:44:11 - 01:03:46:03
Aamir
I think we need to have him again.

01:03:46:03 - 01:03:47:05
Davina
I think I think so.

01:03:47:07 - 01:03:48:09
Aamir
Deep dive into a few.

01:03:48:09 - 01:04:03:10
Davina
Few things. Yes. We'll send him an AI assisted invitation and see when we can squeeze into his. He's very busy schedule, but we really appreciate your time. It's amazing insights. And you know, having AI adopters, early adopters in here is makes it easier for all the dumb monkeys of the world that are sitting there. Just kind you.

01:04:03:16 - 01:04:06:22
Davina
I don't know where to start this place to start. Yeah.

01:04:06:24 - 01:04:07:17
Ramon
Just get on with it.

01:04:07:18 - 01:04:08:15
Davina
It's been awesome.

01:04:08:17 - 01:04:09:20
Ramon
Excellent. Thanks. So good.

01:04:09:20 - 01:04:16:20
Davina
Well, thank you so much. Thank you. We thank you everyone. And thank you everyone for joining us for episode two of The Dumb Monkey. So thank you.