AI Made His Studio Cheaper, Faster… and Busier

Creative director Ben Cook (Recreate Australia) reckons there’s “no excuse not to be a millionaire” if you learn to wield AI—then proves it. We dig into how his team slashed pre-production time, turned meeting notes into proposals, and undercut competitors without cutting corners. Expect practical tactics: recording in Fathom, summarising in Gemini/ChatGPT, dropping into Canva, sending via PandaDoc, plus when to use Copilot, Grok, and Whisper. We also tackle the hard bit: jobs, team pushback, and how to upskill people so AI lifts quality, not laziness. Why it matters: if you run content, marketing, or a service business, this is AI for business you can deploy today. Follow for more brutally useful episodes.

Resources & Links:

 📲 Dumb Monkey AI Academy → https://dumbmonkey.ai/

📱 Dumb Monkey App → https://dumbmonkey.ai/dl

📘 The CEO Who Mocked AI (Until It Made Him Millions) → https://mybook.to/dumbmonkeypodcast

🚀 Enterprise Monkey → https://enterprisemonkey.com.au

Episode-specific:

 • Recreate Australia → https://re-create.au/

 • ChatGPT (Voice) → https://chat.openai.com/

• Google Gemini → https://gemini.google.com/

• Fathom (meeting assistant) → https://www.fathom.video/

• Canva → https://www.canva.com/

• PandaDoc → https://www.pandadoc.com/

• Microsoft Copilot for Microsoft 365 → https://www.microsoft.com/microsoft-365/copilot

• Google Vertex AI Agent Builder → https://cloud.google.com/vertex-ai/agent-builder

• Gamma (AI decks) → https://gamma.app/

• Lovable (AI app builder) → https://lovable.dev/

• Grok (xAI) → https://x.ai/

• Whisper (speech-to-text) → https://openai.com/research/whisper

• Model Context Protocol (MCP) → https://www.anthropic.com/news/model-context-protocol

Transcript

00:00:00:04 - 00:00:16:20
Ben
There's no reason not to be a millionaire these days. All the tech is out there. All these solutions are out there. You can go and start selling coaching programs that you made in ChatGPT. You can sell e-books. It's all there. Start a conversation with ChatGPT on voice mode and just chat to it.

00:00:16:22 - 00:00:27:04
Aamir
Because I found this problem. How can we solve it with the help of AI? And then to create a business model. Then go to gamma and say create a pitch. Then you go to Lovell and say create an app or prototype.

00:00:27:06 - 00:00:33:18
Davina
But we are going to have chaos. The American tech sector first up. You don't have to look too far to go to. You don't want to be a software developer in America right now.

00:00:33:19 - 00:00:56:20
Ben
There's been a little bit of pushback from certain team members of, oh, no, I don't want to use that. That's not how I want my creative process to be. So there's been a little bit of education around, like it's there to make you more efficient. If you're not embracing AI, you just get out priced and outworked. We will be able to implement really cost effective solutions and undercut the market.

00:00:56:22 - 00:01:07:05
Davina
Hi everyone, and welcome to episode three of The Dumb Monkey Show. Today Amir and I are joined by Ben Cooke, who is the director of Recreate Australia. Ben, welcome.

00:01:07:08 - 00:01:08:17
Ben
Hi, team. Thanks for having me on.

00:01:08:19 - 00:01:24:06
Davina
Now, I really wanted to give you a job title as Wild Thinker, because I think we've had enough conversations now that tell me that you are definitely a, well, thinker. In fact, I'm pretty sure I just stole that from you. Tell me about what it's like to be a world thinker in the space of creative industries using AI.

00:01:24:08 - 00:01:45:20
Ben
Honestly, it is a fun space to be in, like everyone. I feel like it's a topic of the employees, a topic of all the creatives that I speak with is what can be out of a job. You know, our industry is dead. And I, I love to fight the, and have a healthy debate about it because I think our industry is stronger than ever.

00:01:45:22 - 00:01:53:13
Ben
And we've got a long future ahead of us. But I know that pushes a lot of people's opinions about where we're at with AI.

00:01:53:14 - 00:01:54:02
Davina
Yeah.

00:01:54:03 - 00:02:05:11
Aamir
So we are going to have an interesting conversation because I've got some interesting views. Some of your views I agree with, but it would be interesting to have that conversation for sure.

00:02:05:13 - 00:02:07:06
Ben
Happy to have a healthy debate.

00:02:07:08 - 00:02:26:23
Davina
Well, I think we dive in. So let me tell us you I sitting on the outside of the creative industries, but adjacent to. Yeah. In the, in the grand world of business and an app design and the way that businesses communicate and connect with clients. What's your impression of what I was going to do for and against the creative industries?

00:02:27:00 - 00:02:47:07
Aamir
I think the with the speed that AI is actually growing, it's growing really fast. What it means is that if you look at the initial models of chippies, they were doing basic stuff, but they were not able to do a lot. But now if you see a look at the new models, like you can look at the video creation model by Gemini Vue three.

00:02:47:09 - 00:03:06:18
Aamir
Even if you look at what you can do with the help of, transcription, the whisper APIs, it I would say it doesn't replace the role of a creative person, but there were a lot of gig things that people were doing. They were things, basic things. For example. Four years ago, we used to use a service for transcription.

00:03:06:18 - 00:03:25:07
Aamir
We would send the video that there would be someone sitting in India or Thailand, would provide the transcription and provide the subtitles back. Now, that's something that can be done with the help of AI. So my opinion is that it might not affect everyone. And there would be some great professionals like Ben who would embrace the AI and be on the top.

00:03:25:09 - 00:03:37:03
Aamir
But on the other hand, I see that there would be a lot of professionals who are just earning money because they are good technical engineers or sound engineers, and that's the stuff that's going to be replaced with the help of AI.

00:03:37:05 - 00:04:03:06
Ben
It's an interesting perspective. I think what I've noticed is the, the, the creation process. You know, when we look at you've got your, your video production sort of process where you want to go down the route of be, you know, DP's go to Hollywood, create feature films. There's that route. There's sort of like the freelancer creating corporate sort of material, and then you've got, you know, your content creator, your influence around your, sort of different levels.

00:04:03:06 - 00:04:23:17
Ben
Right? And they're all respective sort of levels. I think a lot of people tend to look at the Hollywood deep sort of space and think that that's going to affect the entire industry the same way. I think Hollywood and is going to have a massive impact. Like we've already seen that in like VFX. And a whole bunch of different elements.

00:04:23:17 - 00:04:47:10
Ben
So how it comes into my space in like corporate and, and more of like the content creator space, I think it just empowers us. Like our biggest restraint was time, and creative time. And that would go on to the client's budget. You know, well, we have to spend ten hours in pre-production. You know, we have to spend all this time in post-production.

00:04:47:10 - 00:05:17:03
Ben
And it was making our services unattainable for clients. So we're lucky that we're able to implement AI now and go all ideation is only half an hour with some really good frameworks. Post-production we can knock down by a little bit. There's not a lot we're using in post-production yet, but it's allowing us to create more cost effective solutions that we can pass on to clients, which for us is allowing us to be way more competitive in the market.

00:05:17:05 - 00:05:43:07
Davina
I think there's some really interesting points happening in both of these spaces, and I think we've seen this before. Right. So, photography would be, an obvious example that people are probably a little bit more familiar with in terms of how technology moved very fast and changed things very quickly. Been I mean, you know, we've been in your studio at the back and you've got this fantastic photo studio, but I'm sitting here with my iPhone kind of going for most things I can possibly get away with taking that shot.

00:05:43:13 - 00:06:01:00
Ben
It's funny that you mention it. So I'm a photographer, born and bred. I, I've been in the industry about ten years. I started when I was 15. And photography was my first passion. It was my first business in flex photography that anyone that wants to go have a look at some horrible photos. Quick. Funny story.

00:06:01:02 - 00:06:17:18
Ben
Back in the day, I used to not understand what culling was. And, like, image selection and, the editing process. I was so naive. So I used, and Nikon back in the day, and I used to edit and paint. So I used to take every photo. I opened it up and paint. I wouldn't even edit it.

00:06:17:19 - 00:06:28:02
Ben
I would drag my PNG logo into the bottom because I needed brand awareness. And it took me a day just to do watermarking. And then I figured out what Lightroom was. But everything.

00:06:28:02 - 00:06:28:11
Davina
Changed.

00:06:28:11 - 00:06:49:16
Ben
Everything changed. Technology. But basically for me in photography, early on, I was doing portraits. I was doing lifestyle photos for, you know, construction businesses. I was doing all these things. And I saw the writing on the walls as well as like, real estate and all these sorts of things. And I saw the writing on the walls years ago of like, technology is getting way too good.

00:06:49:18 - 00:07:10:23
Ben
And it really Ryan, for about three and a half years ago when we started recreate, which was, you know, the photography industry in my mind for what I wanted to be as a photographer in the space. For me, the industry was gone. I didn't want to be like some of the greats that, like, I respect, like Peter Foster in Geelong, is an incredible photographer.

00:07:10:24 - 00:07:19:13
Davina
And they will always be incredible. Yeah. And artists cross people in the, in their respective fields. Yeah. That you can't replace. Absolutely. There'll always be people at the top of the field.

00:07:19:14 - 00:07:37:21
Ben
And I thought I look towards like the amazing work Peter's doing and other creatives that I respect in space. And I was like, I don't think I want to be that. Like, Peter's phenomenal and I don't think I can get there. Yeah. So I wanted to make a pivot. And that's what I'm we started to look at other avenues and I went down so many rabbit holes.

00:07:37:23 - 00:07:47:03
Ben
But I'm glad with where we've landed, because every day we get to, you know, step inside people's businesses and come up with these really interesting stories.

00:07:47:03 - 00:07:59:22
Davina
And that's the challenge, isn't it? Isn't it? When we start to talk about these, about the changes in technology and particularly now with with AI, we're effectively democratizing a whole lot of things that were niche skills.

00:07:59:22 - 00:08:21:23
Aamir
There were and also if you look at web designing, because traditionally we what have web design and app design company now. And in the last podcast I said we charge, you know, between 50 to $200,000 to do an app. Sometimes we charge 100,000 for a website as well. But the type of websites that we do and the work that we do, I would say that still remains uncompetitive.

00:08:22:00 - 00:08:38:21
Aamir
But when you look at a lot of web designers who are working at lower end charging $2,000, $4,000, doing brochure websites, now, that's something that can really be done with the help of AI. Now, I'm not saying that everyone would be able to do using AI to do that, but there would be a majority of people who would be able to do that.

00:08:38:21 - 00:09:03:12
Aamir
So similarly, in your industry, I see you embracing AI and getting to talk about it. So when you are saying that you would be able to save a huge amount of time and shorten the ideation process, which means you are able to take more clients, which means that you are able to do that work efficiently. So, so the question is, what does it do to your competitors who are not embracing AI?

00:09:03:12 - 00:09:26:05
Aamir
And and that's a big challenge for them. Unless we create a whole lot of new work so that everyone can get busy. I see there would be two class of businesses. One class would be the one that's embracing AI and improving their processes, and they would be on a winning edge. They would have this competitive advantage and it would be a whole another class of businesses that would not embrace AI.

00:09:26:11 - 00:09:28:24
Aamir
And they are the ones that are going to struggle a lot.

00:09:29:01 - 00:09:54:05
Ben
Yeah. So I think if you're not embracing AI, you just get out priced and outworked. To your point, like, yeah, we will be able to implement really cost effective solutions and we'll be able to do that and undercut the market, not because we're cutting corners, because we're creating efficient processes. That's just pure logic. But I think the separate class of work, is what's going to be classed as a creative consultant.

00:09:54:07 - 00:10:17:23
Ben
And I think it's a fascinating sort of space because in to use your example around tech, I've seen and correct me if I'm wrong, that I really struggles with doing the engineering component of coding. It can vibe code to crack hard. Yeah, but we all know the code is not very efficient and it's not considering all the variables, and it's not considering all the things.

00:10:18:00 - 00:10:37:18
Ben
That's what it really lacks is like that engineering component. And I like to think of us as the same thing. We are the engineer in the creative element, and the creative industry is like, sure, you can prompt and vibe code a video or an ad or whatever, but do you understand all the elements of brand? Do you understand all the elements of storytelling?

00:10:37:20 - 00:11:03:15
Ben
And sure, you can prompt hi, what's. I want you to act as a masterful storyteller. I want you to act as, you know, brand specialist. But if you don't have the ability to prompt that, you're going to get what you put in. So I think of us, you know, as moving towards a creative consultant where sure, our industry maybe one day is completely wiped out by AI, and all we are is a creative consultant to these brands that go.

00:11:03:17 - 00:11:12:12
Ben
We want an idea. He is our ten hours of work that we've spat into. I run with it and we become that creative.

00:11:12:13 - 00:11:40:06
Aamir
And so when I say that AI is going to take your job, which means that I'm not saying that I'm going to take all of the jobs that you have, but it's definitely going to change the the job or the work that you are doing at the moment. Because as you said, with coding, like we, can do development and we can use AI, but now I need one senior developer who needs WIP coding to be able to do the work of four people who would generally be involved in doing the development.

00:11:40:08 - 00:11:59:12
Aamir
So you need one good person, or like few good people who understand AI, who understand who are masters at their skill to be able to do that job. So the challenge is what's going to happen to those other people again, who are not that skilled and has not have not learned AI as well.

00:11:59:14 - 00:12:01:23
Ben
I suppose the writing's on the walls. Yes. Yeah.

00:12:02:04 - 00:12:03:08
Davina
You need to challenge.

00:12:03:09 - 00:12:04:14
Ben
You need to move with the times.

00:12:04:14 - 00:12:24:21
Davina
Yeah, absolutely. And I don't mean generational by my age. I mean generational by time period of time. What are you going to choose to do? Because the one thing that never changes is the need, the demand. So when you create a vacuum, when you say, okay, well, it's it's easy to take photos with you with your iPhone.

00:12:24:21 - 00:12:28:21
Davina
Now. Well, why are we doing that? Is the why doesn't change. Yeah.

00:12:28:21 - 00:12:53:01
Aamir
It's the only ray of hope I see is that right now still, for example, video marketing is inaccessible to a lot of businesses. So by being able to scale and develop products, we would be able to make it more accessible to a lot of businesses. So right now, if only 20% of the market is activated, you would start to see more and more people getting activated in the space and leveraging this, technology.

00:12:53:03 - 00:13:11:10
Aamir
One thing that I'm quite keen on understanding, also, as you mentioned, that you're using AI in your day to day work. When we asked you last time, you said you were not using the AI, but then we started to inquire. You said, oh no, we are using ChatGPT, we are doing some automation. So you are actually using quite a bit of AI, in your day to day work.

00:13:11:10 - 00:13:16:01
Aamir
Can you, talk us through about how and where you are using AI in your business?

00:13:16:07 - 00:13:35:05
Ben
I still stay on my comment. I don't think I'm using AI enough. I look towards, you know, our friends, in different industries and stuff and how they're leveraging AI. And we look, you know, like, crowns. So, nothing wrong with making crowns. I love to draw. But, yeah, I don't think we're using AI enough.

00:13:35:07 - 00:13:45:02
Ben
But how? We're using it. So we, you know, we record all of our, internal meetings or our discovery calls, everything like that, and that allows us to have follow up emails.

00:13:45:02 - 00:13:46:24
Aamir
And what do you use to record that?

00:13:47:01 - 00:14:13:21
Ben
It's a mixture at the moment. We're using some third party apps, which I don't love, but, just from a security, you know, perspective and stuff like that. But fathom is a great tool. It's free, allows us to have video and transcription, and we take our fathom transcripts. We run them through either a Gemini framework or a ChatGPT framework, which generates, you know, now summaries, which feeds into a template document that we have inside Canva, and then that all exports and goes through into a doc.

00:14:13:21 - 00:14:18:20
Ben
And we have this seamless sort of process from discovery call to proposal.

00:14:18:22 - 00:14:27:00
Aamir
So to reiterate again, you're taking meeting recordings and fathom and then taking them through Gemini and then pushing them into your Canva template.

00:14:27:02 - 00:14:46:08
Ben
And then and then into Panda Doc and then basically, yeah, sending out proposals. So there are still a few manual steps. Yeah. And we could go down the route of, you know, creating the links through web forms and stuff like that. But we change our approach. I'm such a tinkerer. Like I change our process all the time.

00:14:46:08 - 00:14:55:05
Ben
So we're trying to get it to a spot where we're really, you know, it's 80% we're happy with. And then we're going to start to make all those links. Yeah.

00:14:55:07 - 00:15:17:01
Aamir
And you talked about changing the process. I think, that's an important thing as well as you start to play with some of these AI tools, it also forces you to think about whether what I'm doing is efficient at the moment or not, because the way we were doing it, all of the stuff manually was different. But once you start to embrace AI, your processes start to evolve and change as well.

00:15:17:03 - 00:15:17:16
Aamir
Have you noticed.

00:15:17:16 - 00:15:38:10
Ben
That 100% that happened about two years ago for us, when, we looked at our processes, when we go, what do we want recreate to be? Because initially we went down the same sort of route. Everyone goes down when they start, a video company or what's perceived as a digital marketing company. You know, we wanted to be everything to everyone we want it to be.

00:15:38:10 - 00:15:39:08
Davina
We can do all of the things.

00:15:39:12 - 00:15:56:05
Ben
Yeah, we did the we did the brochure websites, we did the media buying, we did all these things. And we quickly learned like, oh, great, we have all the skill sets to do all this, but what do we actually want to do? So at that point we really looked at what did we want to be and what have we want to be three, five years time from now on?

00:15:56:05 - 00:16:22:09
Ben
What would that mean? Team. What would that mean? Systems and processes. So it really got us on that thinking of like, okay, we need to think about efficient, repeatable processes. So quite thankfully we thought about that, about so two years ago, but that now has all sort of come into the automation processes. And it's like, you know, everything sort of had that sort of systematic thinking behind it, which has been PivotTable for us.

00:16:22:11 - 00:16:23:15
Ben


00:16:23:17 - 00:16:30:16
Aamir
And we have, preferred AI assistant a lot, a nice language model that you use. You use different for different purposes.

00:16:30:18 - 00:16:57:09
Ben
I jumped on when I was saying that before, about two years ago, I jumped very hard into Microsoft Copilot. I, I was such a big advocate of Microsoft. And I feel bad because I told a lot of friends. I was like, if you guys aren't moving into Microsoft, you know, they've just acquired ChatGPT open AI. That's going to be integrated into Copilot, that's going to be under the hood.

00:16:57:11 - 00:17:00:19
Ben
You know, like Microsoft is going to be the future.

00:17:00:21 - 00:17:02:11
Aamir
And I don't want to be disappointing.

00:17:02:16 - 00:17:31:14
Ben
Well, I, I fully adopted, you know, I moved our entire team away from Google into Microsoft, did the Great Migration and everything, and really tried to adopt it pretty hard. But what I learned, is that that ability to move quickly wasn't fast. And the, you know, the restraints inside of Microsoft, from an enterprise perspective of rollouts, of policies and stuff can be really hard if you don't have the, like, technical understanding.

00:17:31:16 - 00:17:49:18
Ben
So then we moved back away from, Microsoft, back into Google. So two question I don't have a preferred model, but I'm really liking where the agent space is inside of Google at the moment. We had a chat with Google Cloud the other day, and we are on like a bit of a trial period with them. Part of agent Space Enterprise.

00:17:49:20 - 00:17:57:16
Ben
So I'm loving that at the moment through Google Cloud, but I'm not, you know, sworn to any sort of model.

00:17:57:17 - 00:18:19:00
Aamir
I think you left the Microsoft vote a bit quickly because we have been training a lot of people on copilot 365 and implementing that. It's funny, when we did the initial training, some of the, the experience was not good. It was underwhelming, especially it didn't have memory and personalization. But a couple of weeks ago, they have introduced memory and personalization.

00:18:19:01 - 00:18:41:10
Aamir
But also now you can have that personalization feed into your emails as well. So the product has improved significantly, I would say, in just the last month or so. And I had to go back to my previous clients, which we had. We implemented Copilot and send them videos about, hey, now this is all possible in copilot. And they have seen that the overall experience improved significantly.

00:18:41:10 - 00:19:02:05
Aamir
With the help of that. So yes, Microsoft has been slow, but the way that things that they have come up with now are really good. They also have a module called create, which is based on chat, GPT or GPT, however, the interface that they have provided to be able to create images and for certain videos is like next level.

00:19:02:07 - 00:19:05:08
Aamir
So I say give it a go once again and see where you land.

00:19:05:10 - 00:19:24:13
Ben
Definitely. I'll definitely have a play around with copilot, but I think from a, like an infrastructure point of view, I think, I think we're going to be sworn to Google for a little while now, unfortunately, just because of the nature of our set up. It's it's a big it's a big move for us. And we found, you know, jumping between Microsoft and Google.

00:19:24:16 - 00:19:32:10
Davina
And this kind of I mean, that this is going to be a feature for, for all sorts of businesses in different spaces as well, is, you know, who which is going to be my.

00:19:32:10 - 00:19:36:16
Ben
I thought it was like life or death when I was making the decision that Balian was like.

00:19:36:18 - 00:19:55:00
Davina
But I think we are going to be agile and mobile. And that's the nature of this development space, because the the service offering is changing so fast. There's going to be, you know, lots of new technology, like each new iteration comes through. It's it's offering you thing solving the problem. So it's a bit like which is, you know what, which is actually a great thing.

00:19:55:05 - 00:20:03:10
Davina
So it should be the users that are informing the developers to say this is what we want, come and meet us where we want to be.

00:20:03:12 - 00:20:32:04
Aamir
Although it doesn't need, like earlier, what we were thinking was like, if you are a Microsoft job, go for copilot. If you are a Google, go for Gemini. But then cloud launched MCP, which is model context protocol. And now ChatGPT has also adopted it. So in simpler terms, MTP allows you to connect your assistant to these third party systems by a very simple you don't have to write very any code or anything like that just once.

00:20:32:06 - 00:20:55:12
Aamir
Connection. That's available through which your cloud or your ChatGPT can connect with your Gmail or Outlook and it can do that integration really like perform actions. You can say send an email to this person or catch me up on my previous emails and can do all of that even when it's not sitting within your cloud or Microsoft environment.

00:20:55:14 - 00:20:58:10
Aamir
So I guess that's where the world would move towards as well.

00:20:58:12 - 00:21:00:15
Ben
That's fascinating. Yeah.

00:21:00:17 - 00:21:12:20
Aamir
You also mentioned, how you were taking the proposals, from, one place to another. So what you also using some type of automation or were you doing it manually?

00:21:12:21 - 00:21:24:18
Ben
Kali was still doing it manually. Manually? Yeah. Yeah. I would love to look at, making those steps more automatic, but I'm a little because I'm, you know, given I'm in the creative industry, I'm a little bit of a perfectionist.

00:21:24:20 - 00:21:25:11
Aamir
Yeah.

00:21:25:13 - 00:21:26:22
Davina
I don't know what's being done how you want it to be done.

00:21:26:22 - 00:21:38:11
Ben
Yeah. And I love, like I love my proposals to look, you know, a certain way. Yeah. Usually it's, it's the, it's the first interpretation of what they think quality is going to be for our service. Yeah.

00:21:38:11 - 00:21:41:05
Aamir
But has it saved you any time so far.

00:21:41:06 - 00:21:45:02
Ben
Yes. The process that we have is yeah tremendously saving us time.

00:21:45:04 - 00:22:05:13
Davina
Been it's definitely you know, I'm hearing that it's taking you time. I'm hearing that it's taking some of the grunt work out of what you do. But I'm really interested in the ability of AI to spark creative ideas, the ability of AI to maybe throw some things in there that you wouldn't think of now you're already a creative think you're already a wild thinker.

00:22:05:15 - 00:22:13:02
Davina
So have you had a play with getting getting some of these models to actually throw some wild thinking back at you?

00:22:13:02 - 00:22:36:20
Ben
We have, our business is comprised of sort of three, key spaces. So our monthly content subscriptions where we work with clients ongoing, to create high quality content and a consistent manner on all their socials. We do once off projects where we mainly do event capture, case study videos, testimonials, brand videos, a whole bunch of other stuff, and on site capture where we shoot on construction sites on a frequent and frequent basis.

00:22:36:22 - 00:23:09:23
Ben
So do you question around the ideation? A lot of the one off projects, is a big conversation where we have to understand, okay, what do you what are you trying to achieve? Who are you trying to speak to? And what's the, you know, emotions we want them to feel so that they can have the right action. And we've developed through the use of AI, a really good framework of questions that gets the right responses, which we know feeds the, the workflow that we have in place to get us close to an idea.

00:23:10:01 - 00:23:28:15
Ben
Okay. And with obviously our understanding in the meeting, we've, we know where we want to go with the idea, but it's always interesting to say, if you know our summary, I touch your beauty summary. All of Google Gemini's summary lands in a similar sort of spot. And sometimes, you know, most times there's always a few unique things that we didn't consider that come back in.

00:23:28:15 - 00:23:47:08
Ben
The ideas as well is in the mix space our monthly content subscriptions. Given the nature of how many ideas we have to come up with, you know, across maybe 15 to 20 clients monthly. You know, we're a small team of only about 17 people, so we it's not enough time for us to always be coming up with all these different ideas.

00:23:47:08 - 00:24:06:24
Ben
You know, you get creative fatigue. So we use it in that space a lot. And we've tried we're not in a great spot yet, but we've tried to create, you know, custom JPEGs trying on all of our clients. So our, our initial onboarding that we do, which is three hours long, we feed at the summary, we do, you know, a deep dive audit of their socials.

00:24:06:24 - 00:24:23:07
Ben
And we feed all of that as context as a custom GPT. And then we prompt that and we go, hey, we want to create ten ideas for the month of January. What have you got. Yeah. And then whatever ideas that we go for, we feed that back into the GPT and we say like these are the ones that we've approved.

00:24:23:13 - 00:24:29:07
Ben
So it's getting a bit of a memory. But you know, after with a few prompts it does lose the memory.

00:24:29:10 - 00:24:49:01
Aamir
So we are talking about custom GPT. These these are something that you can create within GPT, but you can create it for a particular purpose and give it a particular knowledge. Is that right? So you're putting in specific instruction then saying you, like GPT for ideation or something like that?

00:24:49:03 - 00:25:08:10
Ben
Yeah. At the moment I've probably used the terminology wrong. It's mainly just a custom chat. Yeah. So really just defining the context, of the chat, but I've have saying, you know, there's, projects and other things like that. Or for Geminis, it's gems that's supposed to have constrained thinking.

00:25:08:15 - 00:25:18:07
Aamir
Okay. But and you talked about context, so can you tell about a bit more about context? Why is it why do you think it's important?

00:25:18:09 - 00:25:39:16
Ben
I think for us, all of our clients have different approaches to things. So we, you know, we work with chiropractors. And one of our chiropractors that we've worked with doesn't do any cracking. It's not part of their process in chiropractic. So they're a low force, no force chiropractor. And we also work with other chiropractors that they love the cracking.

00:25:39:18 - 00:25:52:16
Ben
So unless you fade it, that sort of context and the unique approach of that profession in that person, it's going to take its knowledge and what it was trained on, and feed that through your ideas.

00:25:52:18 - 00:26:11:00
Aamir
So if you say, give me five content ideas for a chiropractor, one of the ideas might be about cracking. Whereas if you say you are an idea generator and you, like you are working for this chiropractor, these are the services that they provide. And now generate me the ideas.

00:26:11:02 - 00:26:23:08
Ben
Yep. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And these are some unique, unique points of said chiropractor. Yeah. And this is ideally one that like the type of, target audience they're looking for.

00:26:23:10 - 00:26:31:06
Aamir
And then do you put your own flavor of how you generate the ideas so that it's not just using some random knowledge to generate the ideas?

00:26:31:06 - 00:26:57:12
Ben
We do use a little bit of a framework which is, hook purpose, call to action. But yeah, basically it's a very standard framework that I, we usually get back anyway in video production, especially in social media space. But it's again, that's why I think we're not utilizing it well enough because there's all these like, custom sort of, frameworks for all the different parts and we're not tuned into yet.

00:26:57:18 - 00:27:20:04
Davina
So there's plenty of scope to, to play in there. I mean, I think you've raised a really interesting point, though, when you talk about that, when the thinking behind creating a custom GP and I think essentially the endpoint of all this is about authenticity. It's about humanness and what makes this individual and that's, that's that push and pull, I think with, with AI.

00:27:20:07 - 00:27:28:19
Davina
So there's, there's some amazing things that our models can do. But one of the real flaws is that AI isn't fantastic. It also intensity.

00:27:28:21 - 00:27:29:10
Aamir
That's right.

00:27:29:10 - 00:28:02:14
Davina
Yeah. It struggles with that. These models that this is very much at the foundational level of AI. It's very much it, you know, that cutting edge of what's being developed right now. But that's why we have people and that's why we talk about, you know, the AI working as a tool with people. And I think that that is every bit as relevant in the creative industry and will continue to be relevant in the creative industries, because I actually think that when we when we look at what the creative industries are and what they have, they've had to change over a period of time and very rapidly in recent decades.

00:28:02:16 - 00:28:19:02
Davina
Is that the one thing that never changes with creative industries? Is it your job is to connect people, to make them feel something that's to reflect back a sense of humanity. So a great actor is a great actor because they're believable.

00:28:19:04 - 00:28:19:17
Aamir
That's right.

00:28:19:20 - 00:28:45:19
Davina
A great photo is a great idea because it makes you feel something. That great message is a great message because it makes you want to do something. So these fundamentals of what are we even here for. That's what doesn't change. So when we were talking about the changing of the jobs absolutely. It's going to has and will continue to absolutely cut a swathe through and certain job descriptions within the creative industries.

00:28:45:21 - 00:29:11:17
Davina
But personally I think that I would just be another enabler. And I think it's going to be an enabler of the AI, of the creative industries in a really big way, because it actually lets your imagination, your creativity, your, that while thinking that ability to sit down and have a conversation with someone to learn something new and all of a sudden the sparks happen and I is rubbish at sparks that people are great at doing.

00:29:11:19 - 00:29:33:17
Aamir
What? When we were talking to Raman, in our last podcast, one thing he also mentioned was that I actually allowed him to unlock his creativity. He said he was not very big on creativity. It allowed him to do that and that's something that I've found. I, I think of myself as a fairly creative person, but my creativity is more in problem solving rather than writing and so on.

00:29:33:19 - 00:29:56:24
Aamir
So and I proudly said that if I wasn't there, I couldn't have written this book because I actually used AI a lot for brainstorming or being able to just, throw the ideas or create user personas so that it actually allowed me to expand my creativity in those reams. What it means is that it has actually allowed people in general to be more creative.

00:29:57:01 - 00:30:22:10
Aamir
And if there's something that's in abundance, then, the, the demand of that starts to decline or the value of that thing starts to decline as well. And that's where I see that that challenge, of being in the creative space that it would still have a value. But if more and more people are able to produce the same effects or outcomes without that much of knowledge, how would creative people differentiate themselves in the market?

00:30:22:12 - 00:30:39:16
Ben
I think it's interesting, Terry, when you use the word creative, because like a lot of people used to use it, I found early on when I was starting, and I would correlate it very similar to the word artist. And for me, I had a real like disconnect, and it didn't feel congruent because I never thought of myself as a creative.

00:30:39:16 - 00:31:05:10
Ben
I was like, I'm just someone that loves the technical of gear, and cameras and the process and the problem solving. But I didn't see myself as an artist, you know, because I still don't. I'm definitely not an artist. I'm someone who is very chaotic and very crazy and understands how to like, run whilst also, you know, dangling, spinning three plates and, you know, being able to capture a moment whilst all that's happening.

00:31:05:12 - 00:31:23:03
Ben
But I'm definitely not one that can go like, okay, I want you right there. I don't want you to like, tilt your head a little bit and, like, create like a beautiful moment. It's never been something that's supernatural for me. And that's how I like to come back, I suppose, full circle for that. Allowing creativity. Well, I think it's great.

00:31:23:05 - 00:31:41:01
Ben
It's for people that go on all these tangents and they they feel that ought to be a creative. You need to be structured. You need to be able to like, take a pen and write a storyboard or write a book and like, that's the creative process. And for anyone that needs credits, knows that that's not a creative process.

00:31:41:01 - 00:32:02:22
Ben
You know, the creative process is like the spurts of greatness that just come out of random. And I think that's what I always fantastic is you can have this conversation and 90% of it can be crap, and you can say, summarize what I just said and, okay, I one of this huge tangent, but like in the summary, it's just basically giving me the best part.

00:32:02:24 - 00:32:19:09
Ben
Yeah. And I do that all the time like I, I haven't, I never listen to the radio as is. But I've got in such a good habit now on the drive to work I'll just chat to grok or I'll chat to Gemini. And I use my card, my car driving as like this sounding board. Yeah.

00:32:19:11 - 00:32:24:11
Aamir
You talk to grok. There's a sexy mode in grok as well. Is that.

00:32:24:13 - 00:32:24:24
Davina
In.

00:32:25:01 - 00:32:26:01
Aamir
This spicy mode?

00:32:26:01 - 00:32:26:15
Ben
I do.

00:32:26:17 - 00:32:32:09
Aamir
But there's also a sexy mode which, like which can go really accelerated really fast.

00:32:32:11 - 00:32:34:21
Ben
I really only in grok.

00:32:34:23 - 00:32:36:03
Davina
So not with kids in the cockpit.

00:32:36:03 - 00:32:39:03
Aamir
Oh, no, not not at all. Like, not safe for work at all.

00:32:39:03 - 00:32:47:23
Ben
There you go. But we, we have I use that all the time that that bouncing process is fantastic. That is hilarious. So I didn't know that.

00:32:48:00 - 00:32:51:06
Aamir
No, I, I went down the rabbit hole of trying all the words.

00:32:51:08 - 00:32:52:05
Ben
Oh, really?

00:32:52:05 - 00:32:53:24
Aamir
And that was very disturbing.

00:32:53:24 - 00:32:55:21
Ben
I was you'd hate to,

00:32:56:01 - 00:32:57:15
Davina
What it would have been trained on is interesting.

00:32:57:20 - 00:33:05:04
Ben
Yeah. To, you know, work that into someone's, program. And I accidentally used the wrong one in the API. Oh.

00:33:05:06 - 00:33:15:02
Aamir
That would be crazy. Yeah, like, imagine you're calling a call center like Telstra, EnergyAustralia and something like, oh, your energy is low. How can I?

00:33:15:04 - 00:33:25:00
Ben
Maybe that's the new, maybe that's the new, hacker. The hacker. The hacker games that they do, they just get in the backdoor and they switch the model.

00:33:25:01 - 00:33:51:07
Aamir
Yeah, that'd be fun. But that's the that's where I will. It's going. It's starting to become helpful, but equally dangerous as well. And it's for us to do well as we are finding the use cases, but also working out how do we ensure we put the right guardrails as well as your experience of using the AI sort of evolved over time, like the type of results that you were getting from it in the beginning.

00:33:51:07 - 00:33:53:15
Aamir
Have you seen that improvement?

00:33:53:17 - 00:34:14:00
Ben
Definitely. It's like any new tool. You know, when I first started using it, I was riding with my training wheels on, and I still think I've got the training wheels on. Yeah. I think it'll forever develop of, you know, it's only as powerful as what we can use. And we're getting in a better space now.

00:34:14:00 - 00:34:31:18
Ben
We're we're, you know, we've got, follow the full of Google, Google Docs, where we have our AI frameworks, and we know that, like this is step one. This is the prompt for step one. This is what that you know, if you don't know how to gather the right information, these are the questions to use in AI that will make it think.

00:34:31:18 - 00:34:38:00
Ben
And you know, we've got these like 3 or 4 steps or processes. And you should take take them off one by one.

00:34:38:02 - 00:34:40:13
Aamir
So that's for your team members to follow when they are using.

00:34:40:14 - 00:34:58:06
Ben
Yeah definitely. Yeah. So the purpose for that that we found is eventually we're going to get to the spot of AI agents. So that'll become our documentation to train the AI agents. Right. So we're trying to do groundwork now where it's okay. Yes it's our prompt framework. But then it'll become our documentation. So you're.

00:34:58:06 - 00:35:04:17
Aamir
Creating a training material that's currently being used by humans, but would be able to be used by agents in the near future.

00:35:04:19 - 00:35:34:23
Ben
Hopefully as not to replace team members. It's to provide real time support to the team members. So, you know, we have roles like pre-production, we have roles like social media managers, we have roles like, creative assistants and production team members. And you know, small things like today, you know, we've got Jasmine in the corner. That's good. I first time filming, in the room, and there's a whole bunch of questions that come up in this room, like I've built this room so it's not engineered in a fantastic way.

00:35:34:23 - 00:35:58:20
Ben
And there's all these unique things, right? Like these lights are on a different RGB control to these lights, you know, all of the, there's like a five step process on that. That's like a nuclear launch device that if you don't do it right, the recording won't happen. Right? So there's all these things that are so unique. Where, you know, if we had, you know, a little AI agent, you know, have just stepped into the room having these five problems, what do I do?

00:35:59:01 - 00:36:00:22
Ben
Yeah. You know, so.

00:36:00:24 - 00:36:24:12
Aamir
So you say, very clearly that, it's not intended to replace people. And a lot of businesses I've worked with, they put this statement out as well. What do you guys think is the reality with that as well? Like, I know the intent is not to replace people, but once you start to have these agents who are doing some of this work, what would it do to the role of those people?

00:36:24:14 - 00:36:47:13
Ben
Oh, that's a good question. I think the intention for me has always been I want to empower team members. But I suppose to be really like straight up it at the end of the day, business is a game of growth. And if you're not growing as fast as other people in your space, we're very fortunate that, you know, small town Geelong.

00:36:47:17 - 00:37:21:20
Ben
There's not a lot of other people playing in the space. We are because everyone wants to be, you know, different, different ends of the industry. So like, we're very fortunate. There's not a lot of people playing in our space. But there will be other people, you know, come in. So my comment to that is team members have to grow like we've had multiple team members already who've started in one space and the capacity of what they're able to do, we've been able to shrink, we've been able to shrink their hours down so much because of what we've been able to implement with AI.

00:37:21:22 - 00:37:38:10
Ben
And the question isn't like, you know, you're only staying at that amount of hours per week. It's like, what do you want to learn? Like, you now had a part time role for just doing this. We've got you down to nearly six hours a week. What do you want to learn? Like do you want to sidestep? You want to learn how to fly drones?

00:37:38:10 - 00:37:53:12
Ben
Do you want to play in the production space? What do you want to learn? So it's always put back to the team members of do you want to grow? Are you willing to grow? We're always going to invest in you because you clearly have already invested in us. And that to us is like a really good sign.

00:37:53:12 - 00:38:00:07
Ben
Like if we have team members that want to grow, they're great team members for the future. That's how we sort of say it.

00:38:00:09 - 00:38:14:20
Davina
We're all going to be grappling with this question in our team environments, in our work environments. We're going to be grappling with this question of, do we need people? And look, we're seeing it particularly at enterprise level, where facing large teams of people, large redundancies that are coming in through AI systems being put in place.

00:38:15:00 - 00:38:17:01
Ben
Was it the IBM?

00:38:17:03 - 00:38:17:19
Davina
There's been a few.

00:38:18:00 - 00:38:35:24
Aamir
Yeah. Everywhere. Like in India. It's yeah, it's about like there's a company called Tata Consultancy Services, a big, like BPO software company. They had never fired anyone during Covid or during recession. Like, this is the first time they're letting people go. And it's like massive layoff, like tens of thousands of people.

00:38:36:00 - 00:38:48:19
Ben
Tens of thousands. Yeah. Because I heard the the one that comes to mind for me, I think it's IBM or something. The your consultant. Yeah. They, you know they've basically made 8000 people redundant in the air space.

00:38:48:19 - 00:38:49:05
Davina
Okay.

00:38:49:08 - 00:39:14:14
Aamir
And the, the hidden challenges that even like organizations continue to work with the current people. They used to run a lot of graduate programs where they would bring in, new people in that we are starting to see this slowing down really fast as well, like even within our organization. So we had, an aim to grow from 80 to 200 in the next couple of years.

00:39:14:16 - 00:39:34:06
Aamir
But now we have shifted because our focus is not on the number of people anymore. We are not going to let anyone go. What we are going to do is we won't be hiring as much as, as we were always planning to hire. And so imagine if every company starts to do that, that's going to create a bit of chaos.

00:39:34:08 - 00:39:49:05
Davina
Yeah. Well we are going to have chaos. That's that's new already in that you're already in that mode. I mean, when we talk about hundreds of jobs, thousands of jobs, tens of thousands of jobs, you know, the American tech sector, for a start, you don't have to look too far to go to. You don't want to be a software developer in America right now.

00:39:49:07 - 00:40:18:24
Davina
But at the end of the day, that that's the world. That's what happens. So industries will change, current positions will change, new technology will come in and then it enables the space. You know nature leaves a vacuum said is creativity said is business. So we'll have more things to do. And what I think what what we're finding is and I'm really conscious that when you're talking about people's jobs, you're talking about families, it's not just a person's job, it's a family that comes with it.

00:40:18:24 - 00:40:39:16
Davina
It's the communities around it. And it can be it. It can wreak real devastation. So these are not things to consider lightly. They're things that we absolutely need to be looking at at policy levels and even cross-border policy levels. Because at the moment we've got these things happening within, within nations, even within states. But at some point that competition is going to come across borders.

00:40:39:16 - 00:40:57:09
Davina
So it'll be country versus country. Who can who can create the conditions that are going to make this worthwhile? Basically, how do we keep our people in job and not yours? That's going to be these are going to be real things. So we can't hide from that. We're not going to solve any of this by pretending that it's not happening.

00:40:57:09 - 00:41:16:12
Davina
It is happening. It has happened before in the past. It is going to happen again. What we need to be really focused on is if we can't stop that happening and we can't, and we also, in a sense, need it to happen because we've had a global productivity drain. Yeah, it's been incredibly hard to get through any productivity growth for a really long time.

00:41:16:12 - 00:41:37:21
Davina
Like take a look at Japan. And Japan's productivity bottomed out two decades ago. So you can't paper your way out of it. You can't money your way out of it. So we are going to have to take our way out of it. And if we can tech our way into productivity gains, you know, all sorts of areas, then what are the opportunities that come in that that allow us to do more things?

00:41:37:23 - 00:41:50:22
Davina
Because at the moment when you just sit there and say, well, these positions are going to go, yeah, they will. Yes, absolutely. They will. But then we've got a whole lot of human capital sitting there. And it's not like we've got any lack of things that need to be done to be.

00:41:51:02 - 00:41:53:01
Aamir
Yeah, there's so many world problems to be solved.

00:41:53:02 - 00:42:19:21
Davina
Yeah. So I think there's, there's a lot of, there's a, there's a lot of Skype, a lot of sorry, a lot of scope out there to start redirecting people. Oh yes. To problems that frankly, we've all just gone hands off or, or opportunities. There's been there's things that we haven't been able to do. So in Hollywood for instance, where you've had enormous budgets to create a film, those budgets are now being really reduced, and a whole lot of people are going to be laid off.

00:42:19:23 - 00:42:25:13
Davina
Is there any shortage of do we think the content is going to drop? Do I think I think it's going to drop.

00:42:25:14 - 00:42:47:01
Ben
Like the the way the content and this is something I'm really passionate about. I think the way that content is going to be consumed in the future is going to be very different to what people are thinking now. I think Zuck, Mark Zuckerberg tried to push it a long time ago, and he's probably a little bit too early, but he set the right foundation is like the, the metaverse and that 3D virtual sort of space.

00:42:47:01 - 00:43:16:21
Ben
Yeah. You know, I've watched Ready Player One years ago, and I definitely think that's, you know, where we're going in a sense of, you know, augmented reality. And rather than viewing through a portrait device, we will view through a 3D landscape. And I think that's going to be the future of content. And it'll be whether it's stories and movies that'll change based on who you are.

00:43:16:22 - 00:43:46:20
Ben
Like, I was speaking to a very interesting fella, which might be a good guess for you guys. Thomas, who does control you scroll, to basically, you know, help people with, scrolling through social media. And he was looking at, a learning platform whereby rather than just applying a bland, boring learning platform, that's you stock standard video, you for question ABCd, you fill out a questionnaire at the start about who you are in the context of who you are.

00:43:46:22 - 00:44:08:05
Ben
That feeds an AI model and the learning material that you get in the LMS is personalized to you. So it's using your friends names. It's using situations around your friends. It's using all these things about you because the person going through the LMS is likely to remember it more because it's literally saying situations about them.

00:44:08:07 - 00:44:30:22
Aamir
And that's that's a fantastic use case of AI. I use ChatGPT to create stories with my four year old son, Omar. So he's like, okay, who do you want in the story? This guy is like me, my friend, an elephant and a rabbit. And then we we just get to create that story and then in between he starts to intervene and say, no, no, no elephant does this and so on.

00:44:31:03 - 00:45:00:08
Aamir
So it's almost like an interactive story that we are building on the goal. And you're right, that's fair. The whole creative space is going to move in, coming back to what's going to happen to the jobs. I guess there's going to be a huge gap, or, skills gap in terms of people who would be able to train these agents, because no matter how good you build the technology, you still need someone who can manage these agents, who can train these agents, who can work with these agents to make things more efficient.

00:45:00:10 - 00:45:29:11
Aamir
So my message to my my team, especially the developers, was that I don't need you to be good at writing code, but I need you to be good at understanding business requirements and then converting them and instructing these coding agents to write code properly and challenging them on their thinking. Because these AI system that in a very infancy stage and you need to instruct them like you instruct and and, and in turn and work with them to make them better.

00:45:29:13 - 00:45:54:11
Ben
It's back to the creative consultant, you know, and with a mixture of that, you know, the engineer, but also the BA, the business analysis component. So, yeah, I totally agree. It's, it's a it's a interesting space of how can you sit in front of someone and get an understanding of what they're trying to achieve and then fade that with your understanding into, you know, the workforce that you have behind you, whether that be an AI model, AI workforce or whatever it is.

00:45:54:13 - 00:46:09:15
Aamir
So and when you started implementing AI within your business, you might have started doing it by yourself. How was your journey of then educating your team members on AI and getting them to use AI in their day to day work?

00:46:09:17 - 00:46:25:06
Ben
To be honest, it's been interesting. There's been a little bit of pushback from certain team members of, oh no, I don't want to use that. You know, that's that's not how I want my creative process to be and things like that, which is natural, right? You know, sometimes it comes in and they feel like it's there to replace them.

00:46:25:08 - 00:46:50:02
Ben
So it's been a little bit of education around, like it's there to make you more efficient. It's there to make you more efficient so that we can, you know, move your time into other spaces and places and things like that. So there's been a little bit of that that's hard to navigate. But mostly, you know, the adoption as being just like sort of, you know, group sort of training and stuff like that, where it's been really collaborative and, you know, we laugh at some of the responses we get.

00:46:50:02 - 00:47:07:24
Ben
We make it more of an experience, rather than just like, you know, here's the framework. You've got to use this, you know, making it more collaborative, like how can we create the framework together, you know, making everyone part of the journey? So that it's felt more that they're pushing it rather than than us pushing it?

00:47:08:01 - 00:47:11:04
Davina
Yeah. Because at the end of the day, it's only as good as the people using it.

00:47:11:06 - 00:47:11:24
Ben
Yeah.

00:47:12:01 - 00:47:27:24
Aamir
But there's also a fear of if people start to over rely on it, then could and just, rely on what they are getting from AI that could reduce the quality of their output as well. Definitely. So have you put any constraints around that or done any education around that?

00:47:28:01 - 00:47:55:05
Ben
Not really. Not constraints. It's more so just it's like the, you know, the person that uses the hammer, it's the person that uses the tool. Like you need to know what the tool is creating, so that you can check it, like here, one of our LA creatives, he'll get a script back, and I'm, you know, I'm not very good at, writing in general writing or writing, but, like, I, he'll get a script back that's come back from AI, and I'll write it and I'll go, wow, that's really good.

00:47:55:05 - 00:48:13:01
Ben
Like, you know, ten out of ten. And he's done it so much now because he's one of the leads in the pre-production. He's he's like, now that's like that's a ChatGPT script every day of the week because he can see the patterns. He can see the way they frame things. He can see the tone they use all the time, and he can pick it.

00:48:13:03 - 00:48:19:12
Ben
He can pick and go like, no, we're not going to use that or like, we'll use most of that, but we really just need to rework these things. Yeah.

00:48:19:14 - 00:48:26:10
Davina
Well there's there's it. Yeah. There's a good framing there. But now let's actually yeah give it that personalization. Let's give it that authenticity.

00:48:26:11 - 00:48:36:19
Ben
And it's one of those things of like I don't notice it. And you're sure he picks it up. But then it's that age old question of like at what point does it become too much?

00:48:36:21 - 00:48:47:23
Davina
Yeah. We're I'm, we're in a, we're in an age where we're all getting trained in this to whether we whether we know it or not. If you're online, you're seeing a whole lot of content that's been produced by AI. So.

00:48:47:24 - 00:48:52:02
Ben
Well, yeah, I avatars is the scary thing that I'm.

00:48:52:04 - 00:49:09:21
Davina
So but we're starting to, we're being trained in how do we know that that's AI because that's you know, this is the way that our thinking works. This is the this is part of the the great beauty of the human brain is that we look for anomalies. We look for patterns, we look for is this real? Can I trust this?

00:49:09:23 - 00:49:18:19
Davina
So we're getting trained at the same time. We're going to be able to spot, you know, as you said, you can spot it because you say not enough. It's not going to be that long before a whole lot of it's going to be really good at.

00:49:18:21 - 00:49:24:23
Aamir
But on the other hand, AI is being trained on making it more sound, more human and less so.

00:49:25:00 - 00:49:25:16
Davina
Absolutely.

00:49:25:16 - 00:49:46:18
Ben
Yeah. One of the interesting stories I always refer to, and I don't actually know the specific industry that it was or what the which country it was, but essentially there was a country that implemented AI, or at least like tracking models on the, cameras for, I think it was football, whether it was soccer or footy.

00:49:46:20 - 00:50:05:20
Ben
But they basically implement implemented where the cameras would track the players perfectly, it would track the ball perfectly, it would track the players perfectly, and it was on track to basically replace camera operators. And it was a really like, you know, bad situation for them. It looked like. So when they implemented it, I think they did a testing for about six months to a year.

00:50:05:22 - 00:50:26:13
Ben
They say they saw the viewership plummet. And the only correlation they were able to make it was too perfect. Yeah. There wasn't that slight wobble in the camera movement. There wasn't that slight delay that people just picked up and go on. It's just it's just not right. So I think there will always be an element of that.

00:50:26:14 - 00:50:53:23
Davina
Can feel disconnected and and at the end of the day whether it's business, whether it's creative, regardless of what it is that you're trying to do. We're all trying to connect. Yeah. So is, you know, there's a whole lot of questions around it. Is is there a problem? So if we looked for future where small language models come in that can be hyper personalized and that small language model can kind of think like you been, you can use your, your words, your language.

00:50:53:23 - 00:51:10:01
Davina
It's got some of your quirks. And all of a sudden you can go, okay, well, I can I can now trust this model to go and produce this. Yeah. This proposal for me. What does that mean for then? Does it stop you doing work like does it stop you looking for more things to do?

00:51:10:03 - 00:51:29:23
Ben
I think it's a fascinating thing is I think people will be confronted with, what are you truly in the world to do? I'm. You know, I spent a little bit of work a few years back where I was struggling. You know, I had some unfortunate things on as a young chap, and I was question with what do I want to do?

00:51:30:00 - 00:51:44:10
Ben
And I pushed through all the problems I had at my time there, and I found a, I got a little bit closer to why I'm here and what I wanted to do. And then I was confronted with that same problem. About four and a half years ago, I was absolutely burnt out. I nearly closed this space.

00:51:44:10 - 00:52:04:02
Ben
I nearly basically kicked the entire creative industry in the bin because I was completely burnt out. And I got confronted with that question again. I went back to the learnings that I had for many years before, and I thought, well, why am I here? What am I actually doing? This awful. And my as far as I've gotten in that like purpose journey is, I'm here to create the space for others to allow them to flourish.

00:52:04:04 - 00:52:08:07
Ben
That is as far as I've gotten in my purpose. Very nice. And I think that.

00:52:08:09 - 00:52:09:02
Davina
It's pretty good purpose.

00:52:09:05 - 00:52:30:11
Ben
It's not bad, I think, says Guy. It's good, but I think there's that next iteration which I'm continually trying to work on. But I do appreciate that it is a good space, like I, I do that in this. I literally provide a space, you know, I do that and I provide the space for creatives. But, I think people will be confronted with this question of like, why?

00:52:30:13 - 00:52:35:02
Ben
Because it's so easy now. You can do anything you want, you know?

00:52:35:04 - 00:52:37:17
Davina
So what do you do when everything's an option? What are you doing? What are you.

00:52:37:17 - 00:52:57:20
Ben
Going to do there? Like there is some, some bigger influences that I follow these days, like, you know, Cody Sanchez, Alex homos, Aidan D'Amato, all these people. Right. And there's some other ones that sort of preach. There's no reason not to be a millionaire these days. And that's true. Like you can all the tech is out there, all these solutions are out there.

00:52:57:20 - 00:53:11:06
Ben
You can go and start selling pro coaching programs that you're in ChatGPT, you can sell e-books, you can sell all these things that you create. Now with all this tooling, it's all there. Like, yeah, there is no excuse not to do it.

00:53:11:08 - 00:53:34:16
Aamir
And a lot of investors are, saying is that instead of trying to create product for industry and saying this is going to save solve efficiency, you create companies that are AI first, companies that can do that service better than those organizations and actually provide that as a service, which means you can look at any industry out there and see how we can make it better and efficient with the help of AI.

00:53:34:16 - 00:53:47:11
Aamir
But rather than just creating a software, you create the whole process and run that. And if you are doing it as I was, if you have got enough knowledge and understanding, you would be doing it much more efficiently than those organizations.

00:53:47:14 - 00:54:04:04
Ben
A topical one at the moment. And I'd end right here. Do you think is making more money now at the moment? And I then as a company or all the coaches out there online that are charging thousands to implement an idea and processes, I guarantee it's the coaches.

00:54:04:04 - 00:54:23:02
Aamir
Yeah. So for our listeners, anything is an automation platform, AI automation platform. And it's funny, it's not the people who are building the automations without making any money because, like, those are the young guys who don't really understand the ins and out of the businesses, but it's actually the coaches who are actually making the real money.

00:54:23:04 - 00:54:51:00
Aamir
And and so there's so many new business models coming out all the time at the moment and just have to pick up the, the, the right industry, right problem and to solve it with, with the help of AI. And I think that's where huge opportunity lies is like you would start to see more entrepreneurs and more reach young millennials, but also organizations that are very small and agile in size, but reaching to that billionaire stage really fast as well.

00:54:51:02 - 00:55:16:05
Ben
I think it's fascinating. I think everyone, as much as it seems unattainable, all of this is you just need to look at what you do. I guarantee anyone that is listening to this is clearly passionate. Passionate, right? They're clearly inquisitive. You clearly, you know, a little bit creative. And you've got all the right attributes. So you're probably in an industry, whatever it may be, that you can look at yourself and look at what you do and go, wow, what is the opportunity and what I do?

00:55:16:08 - 00:55:17:06
Ben
Because there is a.

00:55:17:06 - 00:55:18:06
Aamir
What's the biggest problem?

00:55:18:06 - 00:55:37:05
Ben
What is the biggest problem? Like whatever it is, even if you were just like, what if you're just doing cleaning or whether you're doing, you know, hanging plaster or whatever it is, there is an opportunity in absolutely everything you do. There is tech adoption. You just need to look at what you do and go, what is the most painful part of what I do, and how can I adopt technology in that?

00:55:37:05 - 00:55:43:15
Ben
And if you've got no idea, start a conversation with ChatGPT on voice mode and just chat to it.

00:55:43:17 - 00:55:58:17
Aamir
Yes, because I found this problem. How can we solve it with the help of AI and then say create me a business model, then go to gamma and say create me a pitch. Then you've got investor pitch. Then you go to lovable and say create me an app or prototype. And like it's all possible with the help of AI.

00:55:58:20 - 00:55:59:24
Aamir


00:56:00:01 - 00:56:10:11
Ben
Yeah, it's it's fascinating, but you've just got to have the drive. You've got to have the passion. And I suppose if anyone's listening, you're probably one of those people. So I get prompting. Awesome.

00:56:10:13 - 00:56:12:16
Davina
Fantastic. This has been a great chat.

00:56:12:17 - 00:56:15:06
Ben
How cool. I appreciate it. Thanks for the time. Thanks for having me.

00:56:15:06 - 00:56:18:20
Aamir
On a thank you. Thanks. Thanks for coming on and.

00:56:18:22 - 00:56:20:04
Davina
Thank you for having us in your space.

00:56:20:10 - 00:56:22:09
Ben
Any time. That's part of my purpose.

00:56:22:09 - 00:56:30:05
Davina
Fantastic. You've been cook for more. Great. Thank you for joining us. I mean, it's always a pleasure. And thank you for joining us. We'll see you next time on the Dr. Monkey show.