The Dumb Monkey Show - Simplifying AI for business leaders
The Dumb Monkey Show is your unapologetically candid AI-in-business podcast for leaders who want results, not hype.
Hosted by Aamir Qutub—CEO, AI strategist, and bestselling author—and Davina Montgomery—communications pro at Deakin’s Applied AI Institute—this show cuts through the jargon to bring you real stories, practical frameworks, and witty banter.
From boardroom strategy to frontline operations, we unpack how artificial intelligence is reshaping business, the pitfalls to avoid, and the bananas you should grab along the way. No tech-splaining. No fluff. Just smart, clear conversations that make AI useful, usable, and maybe even a little fun. 🐵🍌
New episodes every week. Whether you’re a CEO, founder, or curious leader, you’ll leave with ideas you can use today—and a smile you didn’t see coming.
The Dumb Monkey Show - Simplifying AI for business leaders
Stop Treating Claude Like a Writing Tool. Build a Team.
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Season 2, Episode 1. Davina Montgomery and Aamir Qutub are back in a new studio space and Claude isn't just for tightening up your writing anymore. Aamir shows how he runs a crew of AI agents that handle SEO, finance, admin and research — and how he built an app in a weekend his own team quoted at three and a half months. You'll hear how Claude Cowork does real work across your files, how Skills hand AI your brand and knowledge, and how a Valentine's Day agent booked a plumber off Airtasker. We get into the Copilot vs Claude data question Australian businesses keep asking, why your $20 subscription could one day cost $500, and what an AI team really means for productivity and cost. Practical AI for business, minus the hype. Follow the Dumb Monkey podcast so you don't fall behind.
Resources & Links:
📲 Dumb Monkey AI Academy → https://dumbmonkey.ai/
📱 AI Academy → https://dumbmonkey.ai/dl
📘 The CEO Who Mocked AI (Until It Made Him Millions) → https://mybook.to/dumbmonkeypodcast
🚀 Enterprise Monkey → https://enterprisemonkey.com.au
Deakin University → https://www.deakin.edu.au/
AI for Good (UN/ITU) → https://aiforgood.itu.int/
Have you seen the videos popping up? Claude killed lawyer today, Claude killed designers today, Claude killed coders today. So when Claude's been killing everyone.
SPEAKER_01Claude doesn't seem that mean to me, honestly.
SPEAKER_04And I come back and sort of like look at all of the versions and they say, okay, now you do this, you do that.
SPEAKER_01So your AI team is developing.
SPEAKER_04They are. They are not just developing, they're like managing the search engine optimization, managing my household, finance, everything. Like you've got agents for everyone in our organization as well. One month my bill of AI was around $15,000. Wow. Because I just and uh all of the APIs, uh consumption, and so on. Yeah. Yes.
SPEAKER_01I've got a little image in my brain of you just sitting there just, you know, like your little AI fire just burning money.
SPEAKER_04Project has been selected. Uh there's an AI for good council that's actually supported by United Nations. So there's AI for goods are they have got a pitching competition. So we are in like top five in Australia that has been selected. So I'm going to vote. Uh thank you. Thanks a lot.
SPEAKER_00That's something.
SPEAKER_01Hi everyone, and welcome back to the Dumb Monkey Podcast. We've had a bit of a break, but we're excited to be back on deck. And for those of you who are joining us for the first time, hi, I'm Davina Montgomery. I am your host for the Dumb Monkey Podcast because I was asked to be here by the quite extraordinary founder of the Dumb Monkey Academy of Enterprise Monkey. Look, we're not going to go into the list of founding, it takes too long. All of the monkeys, and of course, co-host of the Dumb Monkey podcast, Amir Katoob. Amir, hello.
SPEAKER_04Hi, Davina. It's so good to see you after a long time.
SPEAKER_01It's so great to be back.
SPEAKER_04Yes, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01We've got a cool new podcast set up. This is exciting.
SPEAKER_05Yes. How have you been?
SPEAKER_01I've been really good. I'm really happy to be in here. There's been uh so much happening in the world of AI. But I feel like I always understand a little bit more and feel like I come away with better questions after I've been speaking to you and of course the wonderful Tanita who's behind the scenes producing. Tanita, welcome back. I mean It has been a few months since you and I have sat down at the podcast table, um, which I'm assuming in AI terms is half a generation.
SPEAKER_05It has. It seems like it has changed. Yes, so much has changed, yes.
SPEAKER_01Let's let's jump off to the top. Um I don't know. I think when you and I were last talking, Anthropic was something, and Claude particularly was something that people use specifically for writing, that we were at that stage, um, that feels like a decade ago. But of course, now anthropic's just gone.
SPEAKER_04Yes. Have you seen the videos popping up? Claude killed lawyer today, Claude killed designers today, Claude killed coders today. So when Claude's been killing everyone.
SPEAKER_01Claude doesn't seem that mean to me, honestly. I mean, I I feel like Claude doesn't have a dark side in that sense.
SPEAKER_04I think it's just uh people trying to hype up what it's doing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04But also the tool they have, tools they have been launching uh like throughout from the beginning of this year has been really amazing.
SPEAKER_01Like last year, we How much time have you been sitting there on Claude tools?
SPEAKER_04So look, you know, before uh you came, I was actually lying down on my couch and trying to take a nap because I because you're up at 3 a.m.
SPEAKER_01in the morning.
SPEAKER_04I was, yes, yes, you you know me really well. And then I've almost become a bit of a Claude addict. That's just an actual term.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think it is.
SPEAKER_04Because uh I'm able to get so much done. So uh and so I've been spending a lot of time with with AI. It's it's been in a different zone this year because now I'm able to actually say almost I've got like sort of multiple versions of AI or Claude, say, hey, you do this, you do this, you do this, and I'm gonna check your work. And I come back and sort of like look at all of the versions and then say, okay, now you do this, you do that.
SPEAKER_01So your AI team is developing?
SPEAKER_04They are, it's they're not just developing, they are like uh managing the search engine optimization, managing my household, finance, uh everything. Like you've got agents for everyone in our organization as well. Tanisha has got her little cute Inky who helps her with uh content creation.
SPEAKER_02Fantastic.
SPEAKER_04Uh and then I've got a full team of autonomous agents that are working together as well. And most of them are using Claude APIs uh directly. But the actual uh Claude tool, the Claude uh desktop version, has become so powerful that you can do a lot of this stuff with that as well.
SPEAKER_01So for for people that perhaps haven't, for our listeners that perhaps haven't uh really used a lot of Claude or perhaps is still back in that case of kind of going, maybe I'll pop over and use this for a bit of writing if I want to, if I want to tighten something up. How would you describe the difference? What's changed?
SPEAKER_04So what has uh significantly changed is like last year we were using Chat GPT or Claude where we would ask it a question, it can provide us a response. What Claude has done is that the capacity of the models that sit behind it, the intelligence has not changed, but the way they have created, especially the desktop tool. So you can use Claude on the comp online, but if you download Claude Desktop, they have an option called Claude Cowork. And with cowork, you can actually connect it to a folder on your computer and you can say, hey, there are so many files over there. I want you to go through those files, create me a summary, create me a report, create me a beautiful annual report or a document. It can do all of that analysis and actually do the work and create some really amazing, not just documents. Like if you want to do analysis, think of it as like any work that you can do on computer can be done with the help of Claude. So they have got a connector for Chrome that can control your browser. They've got Cloud Computer use that can execute any task on your computer as well.
SPEAKER_01So it's like And using into into Excel, and if you're if you're using the Microsoft Suite, so you can get in and start using the Claude tools in there.
SPEAKER_05Yes.
SPEAKER_04It's almost like having someone sitting beside you and saying, Hey, can you do this for me, please? And now uh there's an option called dispatch in the Cloud app. So if you have your computer open at home and you're driving back to home and say, Hey, you know, I had this meeting. And generally I do this. I had this meeting with this guy. He asked, and I would say he asked for something. I wouldn't even tell what he asked for. I say, I'll say, go and check the meeting transcript. Can you make sure that we have the proposal ready before I get home? So it starts to work.
SPEAKER_01It's a revenue world, isn't it?
SPEAKER_04It is, yes.
SPEAKER_01Um I mean, I wanted to to ask then about you you raised this idea that you can you're using your I I want to call it Claude Claude family, your Claude friends, um, your Claude team. I don't know, I haven't decided what that maybe it's the Claude crew. It's a Claude crew. And so you're using your your Claude crew as an extension of your brain to sit there and go, right, I've got these things that I want to get done. What can I offload? What can I get happening while I'm doing other things? So you're becoming more productive in yourself by doing that. That's what I'm hearing. What I'm wondering is you raised something that to say, okay, I don't need to give you a whole lot of information. Can you go and do this for me? And now the the power of the model that's on the desktop version of Claude is can do that in a pretty effective way. Um as always, AI can hallucinate, please check your work, just for those of you at home. And it doesn't replace people. Um what I want to know is how good is say Claude Desktop at being able to train someone who's very nervous about using AI for the first time or starting to use AI for different things. So say someone wants to create their own their own Claude crew. Can Claude train or help them? Can Claude hold their hand and get them through that? Can Claude be their emotional support dumb monkey?
SPEAKER_04That's that's uh that's a very good one. So it's a very, I'll give you a very interesting example. It's not Claude directly. Uh you must have heard of OpenClaw. Yeah. Uh that's uh an agentic system that you can download on computer, and then they can it can talk to uh someone via WhatsApp or Telegram. So my mother-in-law in India, and she is, she's taken, like she's an English literature professor, she has taken a leave to write a book. And she said to me, You're really good at researching, you've got all of these deep research tools. Can you do a bit of research for me? And I thought it's gonna be, she's gonna be asking me about the research multiple times. What should I do? So I actually created an agent. Uh I called the agent Cuckoo because that's uh my mother-in-law's uh uh family name as well. And I said, This is my mother-in-law, she's really smart when it comes to literature, but she doesn't know technology at all, she doesn't know how to talk to you or how to use you. She's doing this research, doing this work. These are the six books that she's working on. I gave it access and said, What I need you to do is I want you to assist her, but also teach her how you can actually assist her. So, what happens is that uh Cuckoo messaged her on WhatsApp and said, Hey, I'm Cuckoo, I'm your assistant. And and Cuckoo calls her mama.
SPEAKER_01Like, hey mama. You've identified your mother-in-law, so which is next level. If you're gonna take one thing away from this podcast, that's maybe your idea.
SPEAKER_04That's right. So and says, Hey mama, I'm Cuckoo, I've been an assistant that's made by Amit. I'm here to help you. I'm gonna go through the books. Uh, this is what I'm thinking. What do you think? And so, and then my mother-in-law would reply, Mother, my mother-in-law was shocked, right?
SPEAKER_00I was gonna say, what is she what was her reaction? What did she think?
SPEAKER_04She thought I was playing a prank on her, and it's like me. And she said, uh she said, Amit, is it you? And it's like, question mark, question mark. Then she said, No, mama, it's not me, and so on. But then I called her up and I told her what this is. And she's like, Okay, how should I talk to it? What should I ask? And I said, like, whatever you would have asked me to do, treat her like that, or maybe someone, an assistant that's working, helping you with research, if you have to brainstorm the ideas. Or if you're not sure, just ask her, hey Cuckoo, how can you help me? And then she started to interact with it. And because Cuckoo already knew the level, the technical level of my mother-in-law, this it's Cuckoo started to interact with her, started to suggest saying, for example, my mother said, Can you look at this book and help give me a quick five-point summary? So it gave her the five-point summary, but then she said, What actually's gonna be helpful, mama, is if I can do this for you as well. How about I actually do a further synopsis analysis and all of that? So, so Claude, and and it's basically Claude that's sitting behind it. So Claude APIs or Claude uh brain is really good like that, being able to understand who is the person that's talking to, and then um working around that. And I've got a very interesting Valentine's Day story. I've narrated it a lot of time during my speeches as well, but I think you wouldn't have heard it, right? No, I haven't heard it. Okay, so this Valentine's Day uh for Sarah, uh, I actually decided to gift her an agent because I thought what could be more romantic than gifting your wife an agent? I just wanted to.
SPEAKER_01What do you give someone who's got everything? Something that can do a whole lot of things that they don't want to do.
SPEAKER_04Yes, yes. So uh and again very thoughtful gift. It is, yes. And and uh the name was Miro. Uh so Miro again messaged Sarah. I already told Sarah this is your Valentine's Day gift. So Miro started to chat with Sarah and it's like, and I told to Sarah, like, whatever things you tell me about, I was like, we need to remember to do this and so on. And I connected it with our family calendar, her emails where we receive all of the school information and so on. And so she started to say, Hey Sarah, I will I would like to know more about you. What are the things that uh bother you? What are the things that drive you crazy? And Sarah took it as an opportunity to just vent out.
SPEAKER_01My Valentine's Day gift to you is a bit of AI therapy.
SPEAKER_04Yes, yes. It's such a funny voice note uh that we'll probably add to the podcast recording. But Sarah starts to say, hey, my vanity has been broken for the last two years. It's a guest vanity, it's not her vanity, but it's like I have been asking me to fix it, it's not been fixed, and and so on. So Miro actually went on Air Tasker and posted a job and said, uh, I'm looking for a plumber to fix the vanity and negotiated the plumber down as well, and then came back to Sarah and said, Here's here's your plumber. Do you want me to book it, book him in? So yes. And so the plumber came and the vanity is fixed.
SPEAKER_01Fantastic. And now you don't need to speak to Sarah anymore, so you guys will remain married forever.
SPEAKER_04I know. So we we can we can talk to her about yes, non non-essential stuff.
SPEAKER_01But how is that going? How does that so for for your mother-in-law, for Sarah, how is this working for for them at an emotional level? Do they enjoy this experience? Are they getting something out of it? Does it help to decrease some of the stresses?
SPEAKER_04It has actually uh a lot. And what has happened is I can see there's a bit of dependence on it. So there's been two or three times because it's using credits uh and it costs me to run it. Yes. So every time it's run run out of credit credit usage, they call me upstairs instead of Cuckoo is not responding, Mira is not responding, I had to tell her about this, and it's not happening.
SPEAKER_01And so and that's and that's one of the first things that people find when they start to use these kinds of assistance, isn't it? That we that these AI models use tokens. Yes. I mean we we will never we will never stop saying that these these platforms are business models. Yes. They're designed to be helpful to you so that you will use it more. Yeah. And then they can charge you more to do that. So that's that's part of the business model that sits behind that.
SPEAKER_04Um they are heavily subsidizing the costs at the moment as well. And Tanisha is the same. Whenever Inky's not responding, she'll message me, my Ike is not responding to the case.
SPEAKER_01I need more tokens, please.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_01Uh my credit.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah. I haven't set it up on auto-recharge yet. Although you can set up the limit because I still want to physically go and put the money in because I have spent a lot of money on the credits.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's well, that's there's a there's a whole big question that sits behind that that we might come to a bit later, which is around the business model of the AI models. Yes. So what's sitting behind it? Where's the business cases and what do they mean?
SPEAKER_04Yeah. So coming back to like, let's not talk about open claw because it's a bit more advanced, there are security issues and so on as well. Even clot subscription, right? So I got a claude subscription for people in my project management team. Yeah. Now I knew that they don't know how to use cloud properly, right? So, and I knew they wouldn't be able to use it without a lot of training and without setting it up. So, first thing that I did was there's something in Cloud which is so powerful, and that's going to change the whole AI experience. So, ChatGPT is now adapting it as well. Copilot will adapt it. It's called skills. So, skills is are basically simple like text files through which you can give Claude a domain knowledge. You can give tell Claude what you need to do. So, the first skill that I created on Claude was an enterprise monkey brand skill. And in that brand skill, it has logos, the whole brand tone, and everything. So if you see some of the documents that uh come out of the Claud now, they are fully on brand. Like every document that creates is fully on brand to the enterprise monkey brands, fully on the tone as well. Then I created like a humanizer skill so that everything that comes out is, and humanizer skill is something that you can search. So there's a big uh marketplace through which you can search as well. And so I added that. And then I added like an enterprise monkey proposal skill, which could help them create a proposal. On the side, I also created a brain. My brain is a bit more advanced, but think of brain as a folder either in Google Drive or in SharePoint, which is a very uh curated piece of information. We have talked about a brain. Uh I've I've I've done something very close to JavaScript, I'll show it to you. It's really cool. Uh but it's basically very simple text files or doc files. Uh and then in Claude, you can say if there's any information that you need to find about the company, check brain first. And when it goes to that brain folder, there's like a README file saying, hey Claude, you have come here. If the question is about a person, check this folder if the question is about this. Like there's a very clear instruction that's kept in that brain. Now, the important thing is that that brain is actually kept outside of Claude. That's mine. The skills are we have uploaded to Claude, but skills are ours as well. They are sitting outside the cloud. So all of the magic that's happening is actually sitting outside the cloud, and we are just giving Claude access to that. So what I did for my team was that I actually set up the custom instruction and say, this is my team, it started to use project management uh this uh cloud right right now. They don't know how to use it, so you need to assist them. If they ask for information, use the brain. If they ask uh to produce a document, use the brand skill and so on. And so when I gave them the cloud loaded with all of the skills, spent a couple of hours with them showing them around, it was very easy and quick for them to actually get started on that journey. Another thing that I did for them was there's an option in Cloud called Schedule Tasks. So you can actually schedule tasks in there, which is like setting up an automation. Yeah. So I set up a simple automation that would send them a daily brief about, hey, based on your emails and all of the correspondences, these are the things that you need to be taken care of. This is your meeting minutes and so on. So earlier we were talking about how you could do it with the agents, like more advanced stuff. Now you can do it all in cloud. And so by setting it up right for the people, you remove those barriers and just becomes easier for people to use it.
SPEAKER_01There's a reference in there to Jarvis. Um, you're talking about the Iron Man Javas.
SPEAKER_04I Iron Man and Jarvis.
SPEAKER_01Which makes me want to go back and watch Iron Man because I feel like I haven't done that in a while, and Javas is gonna feel really, really real now. Um What about for people who aren't using Claude? So, what about people who for business reasons? I mean, we spoke a lot, I think, in in our in the first, in the earlier series of the podcast, talking about Microsoft Copilot and the enterprise version of that, that a lot of businesses will roll out for reasons of protection and security, et cetera. That's what they license to. So that's their business information will then go through copilot. Are we in a space where these tools that Anthropic and Anthropic being the developers of Claude have developed and pushed forward into, what's the lag time on catching up to say a copilot or um GPT, GPT?
SPEAKER_04Yeah. So copilot um has improved, but still trying to catch up at the moment. But for some of our, like I was having a very, I had a very interesting conversation with one of our accounting clients, and every they said uh everyone is asking for Claude, everyone's asking for tools, what should we do? The problem with Claude is that your data still travels to US and goes out of the boundary. Now, Copilot has introduced Claude inside Copilot as well. And there's a co-work function now that they are introducing in their frontier model. So frontiers is basically uh you have to sign up, it's like a beta system. So once your admin signs up to be a frontier, then you can get access to co-work inside the cloud, uh inside co-pilot.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_04The challenge being is what Microsoft says is that it uh when whenever you use cloud, it doesn't apply the Australian data residency, uh residentiality. So what means is your data is still traveling to cloud servers. But one of the important questions that I raise is is data residentiality important for your business or not? Because for some businesses that are dealing with personal information, working with government, it's important.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_04And that's that's fine. But there are some businesses who say it's important for me, but they're already using HubSpot, for example, or some other tools, uh, or make.com or all these tools where they are partially sending their data to US. So which means your data is already out there, right?
SPEAKER_01So probably a good thing to do is is direct anyone who's listening to this that's wondering how do I work through these challenges. We did a podcast on governance, on AI governance, and that would be a really good one. So perhaps we can link that back in the chat where give people that connection just to go, okay, if this is an issue for your business and you're trying to explain to a team, because it's hard, right? I mean, you you sit down, you're you're running teams, and they're going, yep, no, okay, we're we're starting to use AI, this is good, um, but we're sort of stuck using Copilot, and frankly, it's a bit clunky now because it's you know half a generation or three months old. Um Claude can do all these things. I want to be able to use Claude, and you need to explain to them why that might be problematic.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Maybe it's okay, maybe it's not. But how do you make that decision? How do you make it informed?
SPEAKER_04I think uh that's a great idea. So probably from an organization perspective, you come in three windows first, window is your data needs to stay in Australia, and that's uh no go. In that case, you use score. Copilot and use it without the clot features. The second option is you are concerned about security, but you are not obligated to have your data in Australia. You can use copilot and the frontier options of copilot. So like you can use co-work inside it because Claude is as is pretty secure. Like when it comes to security, it's not about the breach, it's just about the data that's going into their US server.
SPEAKER_01I don't know about you, but I felt a lot better when I saw the CEO of Anthropic walking into the White House because they weren't just going to hand over everything that the government wanted straight away.
SPEAKER_04That's right, yes. Kind of a bit of a trust test. It is, absolutely. And probably much more trusted than OpenAI.
SPEAKER_01Mind you, that was a couple of months ago, so goodness knows what's happened since then.
SPEAKER_04Yes, yeah. And uh also uh Anthropic had a very good conversation with the Australian government as well. They're opening an office in Sydney.
SPEAKER_01Even that's fascinating, isn't it? I mean, we talked about, you know, we we opened up talking about that there's been a bit of time for us, but in in AI terms, things have shifted. That the environment, particularly around large language models, has shifted significantly. I mean, even that. That we we've had so many conversations, I think, as as people into the media, as um business people that are working in AI, the whole podcast community, the news community have all been talking about things like governments aren't catching up. Well, now they don't have a choice.
SPEAKER_05That's right.
SPEAKER_01They're moving really fast. I don't know that I've seen governments move this fast before. This is the story in and of itself.
SPEAKER_04Yes, absolutely. Yes. I there's no choice. Yeah. Yes. And then the third version is if you there's no you are concerned about security, but you don't have an obligation to have your data in Australia. You can be a bit more flexible.
SPEAKER_01So if you've got, say, uh IP protections, for instance, you're developing your manufacturing business or somewhere that has a significant amount of IP, that might be a concern for you?
SPEAKER_04Uh so for example, if you're a manufacturing business who is developing something which is which is an important IP, but it's not like uh doesn't relate to national security.
SPEAKER_01Holding data, holding personal data.
SPEAKER_04Yes, even even though. What would be the use case? I would say holding personal data, again, what level of personal data it is. For example, if you're in healthcare, you want to stay with copilot. But if you are a manufacturing business uh who's uh doing recycled plastic manufacturing, right, you have an IP, but uh even if that stays with Claude, like Claude has already committed, it's not gonna use your data with the enterprise version and so on. So which means it's still on a cloud. If you it's still on co-pilot, although it's within your Microsoft version, it's still on a cloud, right? So that can get breached, this can get breached as well. There's always that that challenge. But the important thing is that the the commitment from Claude, the security control from Cloud actually allows a lot of small to medium businesses to be able to use it safely. Then for larger businesses, Cloud has got their enterprise version, which is again safe to use. But the challenge is if you are a university like Deakin, right? Coming back to your question, your question was uh like if the organization are using Copilot, they don't have this much of flexibility. Uh, what do you do? First of all, so copilot is actually moving forward. They are introducing cowork as well. They are introducing the concept of skills. Skills is a concept that you'll start to see in every AI platform because such a flexible concept, you don't need to have everything, you don't need to create like those assistive agents and so on. You can just write a skill for something, and then Claude or whatever it is can follow that script and it works out for everyone. So copilot would have a proper skills function really soon. But even if it doesn't have a skills function, what you can do is you can still write a file or you can still pick up a skill from the Claud, change it a bit, and then ask Copilot to actually follow that or create an agent in Copilot that actually uses that skill. So you can almost start to get the benefits that you would get from Claude in uh Copilot itself. The only benefits you won't be able to get is where you know how it connects to a folder and does a lot of work. Uh interestingly, Claude's integration with Microsoft is much better than the copilot's integration with the Microsoft stack.
SPEAKER_01That's and that's happened really quickly.
SPEAKER_04It has, yes. You know why? No. So Cloud focused on one thing, which was to make their models really good at uh coding. Uh and so what happens is that Claude models or Opus really knows how to write, think through a problem and write a good code. The the thing is that everything that happens on a computer uses code. What it means is that for it to create a Word document, it doesn't need to know how to use Microsoft Word. It needs to know how to write scripts that can actually execute that Word document. So because it is so good at coding, it can interpret the code of any software it's working in, and then it can actually make it happen. Uh whereas like open AI is clear. It's really clever.
SPEAKER_01So it's it's effectively giving you access to the foundations. Yes. What's driving this?
SPEAKER_04That's right. So like the two big shifts that has happened in the AI space. First is that something non-human technology was able to understand human language. So it was, it made it really easy for us to teach it anything or train it on this large language. And the second thing is for it the ability for it to be able to write code or understand code. Because what it means is that it can now do anything on the computer as well. So it can now understand human language really well, it can do anything on the computer really well, and that just closes the gap.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. It's it has been uh fascinating to see that. Have has the conversation around safety of these AI models and the security of these AI models changed from your perspective? Because looking from the outside in, um you know, for for those of you that are joining me on the on the dumb monkey side of things.
SPEAKER_04I think it's an interesting conversation though. Like we've it's uh it's been a long time since we have done this.
SPEAKER_01It is and the it It does feel like a lot of the a lot of the issues that we were particularly concerned, say this time last year, have changed. So we would previously, if we were doing this, if we were doing this podcast, having this conversation six months ago, we would have been, or eight months ago, we would have been talking about um concerns around the security and uh protecting basically your use of some of these models, particularly in a business sense, but really in a life sense. Um if you're using the free version of ChatGPT, for instance, be be concerned about what you're putting on there. A lot of our conversations were about that. It feels like there's been an awareness perhaps from the developers of these models and the and the teams that are driving the development of them that if you want our if you want our money, if you which is you know, you are the one I use of the of the platform, if it's free. You know, the golden rule is if it's free, if you you're not paying for the product, you are the product. Um so they either want you using the product or they want you paying for the product and they want you to keep coming back. These are business models and business models with some very big, very big costs and bank behind them, some incredibly high um business appraisals. You know, what we're saying, these businesses that work, they're piling money into big data centers, they need us to keep being involved with them. That's right. So, as a business decision from them, it makes very good sense to make us as users feel more secure about using these models. Yes. That's what I think we're all saying the same things, going, how do we trust it?
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Has there been real movement on that, or do I just feel like there's been movement on that?
SPEAKER_04I think what has happened is that uh because uh a lot of people are now aware of the privacy settings, uh, and initially there were the mod like the systems have improved as well. Like Claude has got a SOC2 certification, these guys needed to move into enterprises, so the questions were asked. So definitely organizations themselves have become more mature in terms of how they handle the data. People now understand the difference between a free version and uh in a pro version as well. So I think there's definitely been a moment in that from that perspective. Uh, and also these models have become more safer as well. Like if you could really do a prompt injection in like earlier models and uh get information out, these models are becoming more and more safer uh as well. So there's definitely, and I think uh also I in Australia what has happened is that because a lot of businesses have been conscious, so they have spent a lot of uh efforts in doing the governance right and policies right. I've seen the businesses where they have actually made sure that uh people are aware of the risk and challenges and so on. And now so we are in a position to actually start to leverage some of these tools easily.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. It is interesting. Um what do you think is coming next? So what do you know is coming next?
SPEAKER_04Okay, so we can talk about features, like there's been so many features all the time. What has happened is now it's actually shifted the whole like last year the conversation was okay, like this chat GPD is great, it provides good answers, not, and so on. But we are saying okay, agents are coming, or some like technical people would have those agents. But now the systems themselves have got agentic capabilities, right? So what it means is that a lot of work that we were actually doing by ourselves is can be delegated to these systems. And so as we go, and then Cloud has been uh launching Cloud for Legal, Cloud for They have just recently launched Cloud for Small Business that gives small business a lot of tools to connect to their systems. Uh so what happens is that uh these tools uh are becoming really powerful. Uh so first of all, there's a very clear advantage for the businesses who are embracing it because they're able to do the work really fast. So there's definitely that's divide forming. And then also in terms of the people who are embracing AI versus who are just using it for uh correcting their emails and so on, that gap has started to widen a bit as well.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Has the cost of using AI gone up? And are we paying enough attention to what's going to happen to our budget models? Because as you mentioned, you know, a lot of these models are fairly heavily discounting the availability of these tools. I mean, this is a classic business model. We've developed these incredible things, we've poured an enormous amount of resource into it, we've now got a you know, we've got a value, our company valuation is over here, our cost base is here. Anyone who's in the the stock market sector economists, um, financial futurists will all sit there and go, none of these companies are worth the valuations that they're worth. Their cost of going into development has to be recouped at some point.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_01Are we all about to hit a big AI bill? Do we need to have this conversation?
SPEAKER_04I think it's a very important conversation and also deserves its own space as well. Uh but it's a very great point. Uh, one thing uh to understand here is that a lot of subscriptions that we are getting, these are being heavily subsidized. So, like the usage that we get in a $30 Claude or Chat GPT subscription, it generally would cost uh them uh $100 or more than that. So similarly, what's what they are doing is they are actually heavily subsidizing that cost with the money that they are raising because they want more and more people to use AI. So the actual cost of tokens has not decreased, uh, and there's not been much work that has been done on that part. There have been some other models that have come out.
SPEAKER_01And by tokens, you mean effectively the amount that you pay that gives you the amount of computing.
SPEAKER_04Yes. So token is basically uh the the currency in which you measure the usage of AI. So one token is generally two words. Uh so what happens is really I never knew that. Yes. That's a token. Yes, and I'm saying that nervously because I always get confused. Either it's one word is two tokens or two tokens is one word, but it's very, very close to that. Yes. But uh what happens is that every time you send a message to AI or receive something, that's actually uh calculated in terms of how many tokens there are.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_04And so no matter whether you are paying for token or not, the company that's processing those tokens have to pay for it. There's a compute that's actually happening over there.
SPEAKER_01So we're gonna take that on night so I can that that will be a really interesting conversation.
SPEAKER_04Yes. So it's it's the bill, the AI bill is definitely be there, and we have not solved the power of the energy that's actually required. Water use and compute and all of that. But there should be some people who should be working on it, and there's a this this is a problem to be solved as well. Yeah. Uh but it should not uh defer you as a business person or as an individual from actually using AI. Yes, the the cost might increase, but now is the time for you to use AI as a playground where you can experiment, learn, and fail and like burn tokens because they are being heavily subsidized. Because probably in one year the that $20 subscription might be $500.
SPEAKER_01Oh wow. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04But the thing is, by that time, we should have sorted out like what's the wastage. Like right now, we do a lot of wastage. Not in normal conversation, are generally cheaper, but when you're developing apps and developing systems, designing things, you burn like thousands of tokens. Sorry, not even thousands, like everyone burned a thousand tokens in the thing. Like we're we're talking sort of like millions of tokens and sort of developing something like that. And I I burn a lot of tokens. Um, one of one month my bill of AI was around fifteen thousand dollars. Wow. Because I just and uh all of the APIs, uh consumption, and so on. Yeah. Yes.
SPEAKER_01I've got a little image in my brain of you just sitting there just you know, like your little AI fire just burning money. But learning and developing volume.
SPEAKER_04Learning and developing, and like uh I was able to develop uh an app on on a weekend and like two two nights from that and spend and how long would that app have taken you previously? I asked my team for an estimate. I've got a very skilled team. They said three and a half months.
SPEAKER_01Wow.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so time is money, right? There's there's equations in there as well. Yes. What about Google? Google, I I'm always interested by um mainly because I come from that sort of you know media marketing background, and they call themselves Google Deep Mind. They've got an incredible origin story, and they just have the best marketing in AI. So, you know, I was already a fan. But no, in but but in all seriousness, Google I find is really interesting. How they position themselves, what they're developing in terms of their AI, their origin story. For anyone who hasn't seen the Google Deep Mind documentary, go and watch it. It's just it's amazing. And it's just such a story of our time. Like it's going to become one of those iconic stories. But they're interesting because Google were early providers of AI, they were early developers of AI. Then they kind of slipped behind, they lost a fair bit of you know, market share, that became kind of uncool. You know, you didn't really use Google for AI anymore. Um then they did the wonders of nano banana, best name in AI. Still. It's gonna be a hard one to top. Um but of course the image generation with nano banana. But now they're doing something really interesting. And I've noticed that Google AI is starting to get integrated into a little bit of everything and the the everyday things that we use. So we've spent a fair bit of conversation talking about Claude and the and the magic that they've created, and it absolutely is magic because I don't understand how it how it works, so I'm calling it magic. Um so magic is just signs that you don't understand. And but Google is putting their AI into Gmail, into Google Maps, into all of these things that are just kind of ubiquitous. We don't talk about them, we don't think about them anymore. Um that grand old thing that I'm gonna steal a line from Professor Professor Raj Basser at um at Deacon that I work with, and not sponsored by Deacon, completely unaffiliated. My work here is separate. But we love Deacon. But we love Deacon.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_01Um always. But Raj has this great line, and he says if you notice if you notice the technology, it probably means it's broken. And with Google, it's become so ubiquitous that we don't notice that technology anymore. It's just kind of there. It's on our phones, it's on our laptops, it's in our, you know, in our area. And now all of a sudden we've got Google AI coming into these. What are they doing? What are you seeing?
SPEAKER_04So if you go back to the history of how Gen AI came about, there were a few guys who were trying to solve a problem with Google Translate. The problem with Google Translate was it was able to translate word to word, but could not connect the sentences. So they then did research and wrote a paper on transformers about how rather than you have to, rather than having reading word to word, uh, you can actually read the full document, pick up the words, and then predict what is around that. And then that actually changed the the whole thought process of okay, right now, if you had to train something on uh on a model, what you have to do is you have to go through word to word, it would take a lot of time. So OpenAI, what they did was they said, okay, this is really good. We are gonna use this transformer model, and because Google published the paper, right? So they just put it out. And they said, we are going to train it all on the all of the the whole world's knowledge, and that's how the large language model concept was born. Then they said, okay, if we can use prediction to be able to understand what's in the text, we can use it to predict the next term as well. So coming back, it was Google who actually came up with the actual concept of transformers from where the whole LLM was was generated. What Google has is an ecosystem of the penetration in the devices, the systems that we use, uh, and it's it's already out there. Now we are talking about a cloud over here. The beauty of the cloud is not in the model itself, like because models are gonna come and go, it's what they have built around it. It's a toolkit. But the thing is that right now, Google, and we're gonna we should talk about Apple at some stage as well. They're just sitting there laughing or smiling because the features that Claude has built, they can actually be built by their developers in a couple of weeks. Because uh Claude has actually developed some of those features in weeks as well, with with with the clouds. I'm starting to wonder what I do with my dice. Yeah. So so they are they're just watching uh this space from the consumer perspective and sort of like seeing what's happening, what's working for Claude, and what's not working for Claude. And Claude is trying to establish its presence in the market. And I believe Claude would have its own fanship and so on. But because of Google's own ecosystem, it still owns the search space. They've started to use the AI mode in there as well. Like they have they they own the Google Home space, there's a whole Android space that's out there, and if you look at the level of AI in uh Android phones, uh that's just amazing. It's gonna become a more native feature as well. And it's still a very prominent device that we actually use uh in in this. Whereas Apple has taken a stance where because they provide a very definitive experience to the people, the whole AI they feel is is in a bit of like still a sandbox mode where we're still going through testing and iterations.
SPEAKER_01Did I read somewhere that that Google have made a deal with Apple though, that that future iterations of the iPhone are going to be using Google AI?
SPEAKER_04I'm not aware of that.
SPEAKER_01Go and have a check about that. You'll you'll read more into it than I will. Right. But I I believe in this was in the context of the money. Yeah, chasing the money. Which is um, my background for for quite a number of years is how we met was in business journalism, and that's that's the secret source of business journalism. There's no great secret to it, you just chase the money. And that that tells you kind of where people's decision making will go. And so I was really interested to see what was happening because you have these huge valuations, huge cost base. How is a company that's you know, I'm I'm making up figures, but how is a company that's bringing in $100 billion valued at three trillion? You know, we these things are are real when they need to be in in the IO space they haven't been. So there will there will be a reality check. We know that.
SPEAKER_04But but will there be a reality check? Would it wouldn't you think that market would adjust itself that and these organizations will be able to do that?
SPEAKER_01Maybe maybe the productivity will come up underneath it to support that, but yeah.
SPEAKER_04There's gonna need to be some big changes in terms of value and where the any of this organization actually f reaching to a superagent stage where agents are able to create agents themselves and they are able to do months of research in in in seconds or hours, the amount of uh value that these organizations would hold would be amazing. So they these organizations would probably start to engulf other organizations. Like OpenAI have already started to sort of like offer their consulting services. And when I when we were joking about Claude killing the services, every time Claude launches a feature, uh a valuation of a company that's providing that service goes down. So we have we have seen like Canva's valuation or shares going down. We have seen Figmas shares going down. So all of these organizations that build their business on providing a service.
SPEAKER_01And being a market leader in that.
SPEAKER_04Being a market leader. And Cloud's developer would wipe code something because they use AI to decode, yes, and they they would do something in a week and launch a new feature. And then that just disrupts the whole industry.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_04So you can say that the valuation is inflated, but uh I feel the the the disruption that's gonna cause to industry uh is is gonna be so huge that that valuation would become meaningful.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_04It could be the case that some of these companies might die and and and and and there would be like a few winners out of this.
SPEAKER_01And new ones will be reborn and that's as you would expect in the in the in the early in the early days of evolution, things are you know, things get messy.
SPEAKER_04That's right.
SPEAKER_01Or kind of explosions, and then at the end of it you you reach a some form of equilibrium. Um I was very interested to see that Google's ad revenue is rising.
SPEAKER_04It would because uh search value is going down as well. Yeah. Yes, yeah. And Chat GPT has introduced ads as as well. Yeah. And and there.
SPEAKER_01No, Google's Google's ad revenue is is rising, so they're they're making more money. Yes. I kind of thought that they'd be losing money.
SPEAKER_04No, they they are making more money uh because uh first of all, the the the search is actually uh decreasing. So what's what's what's happening is that uh businesses are more compelled to actually do ads as well. And also what we are seeing at the moment is we haven't seen the actual shift. Like I still use Google for search because I'd talked about using perplexity, but then I just got like it was too much because sometimes I just wanted to get an answer or get get get get to a website, and perplexity experience was not that great, right? So I still use Google for a lot of my searches. You haven't we haven't seen that shift from people moving away from Google to actually using the stuff. Yeah, but secondly, Google's ad revenue doesn't only come from the search revenue, it comes from the placement that happens in their partner websites and in the ecosystem. Yeah. And Google's ecosystem is pretty much. It's huge. It's really ubiquitous, isn't it? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Okay. Well these are interesting.
SPEAKER_04Why do you think that uh ad revenue is increasing from your perspective?
SPEAKER_01Well, do I think it's I think it's I think it's similar. I think it's a case of of the the driver to say if you're in a business and you're trying to get people's attention, then this is a way to actually get value out of it. Because I think for a period of time doing things like Google Ads was a bit like a bit of a gamble. So you can you can put your your Google ads in there, you'll get sponsored up, people would completely kind of ignore the sponsored ads, go past. So people don't particularly like as people we don't like, ads that tell us what to do. I think as consumers and as searches, I think we just look straight at the the sponsored things and go straight past them. But I think there's more value now in where it is. And I think the advertising is getting a lot smarter. I mean, AI algorithms mean that you can start to personalize and so I've connected my Google ads to my cloud as well.
SPEAKER_04Claude doesn't have a direct connector. There's a thing called Composio through which you can connect your like it's like a it's like uh standard MCP protocol. So I've connected my Google Ads. Sorry, what's a standard MCP protocol? What's which is uh an easy way to connect with these systems. So MCP model context protocol is a way to connect your cloud with any third-party systems. And uh some if you go to connectors in Cloud, browse the marketplace, a lot of connectors are available, but there are some connectors that are not available. But there's a Composio connector available. Then you go to Composio website, composio.dev, and then you can connect multiple Google accounts.
SPEAKER_01I'm totally not doing this, but I'm interested in meta accounts and so on.
SPEAKER_04And then you can just say, hey, uh Claude, look at my campaign. What am I doing wrong here? You do you want to set up a new campaign for me? And Claude can set up the campaign for you. Claude can set up the Facebook ads for you as well. It's much better than actually uh, you know, dealing with a third party to actually run not in every case, but no, but it it you know, I as you you asked the question about why they're getting better.
SPEAKER_01I think I think their offering is getting better. I think that's why they're making more money. So I think that you know, back when it would be if you were searching for a a pet groomer, um, I'm not searching for a pet groomer. I've got a French bulldog, no one wants to groom that. Um but you'd put in an ad for pet groomer and it can take you to somewhere in Perth or somewhere in WA, or it it's not very useful. If I'm sitting here in in slightly cloudy, foggy Geelong, I want a pet groomer that's just down the road. And ideally I want them to be even closer than that. So for all of the wonders of being able to provide the world of options, I think for most of us as consumers, when we're looking for something, we kind of want to find something that's really practical for us right now. And we want to do that in the easiest possible way. So as advertisers, uh as an advertising platform that I think you know, in a way Google is, um the better they are at providing people what they want up front makes the offer to advertise on them a little bit better. And I assume if you can pinpoint where you're trying to target your advertising, if you're not trying to hit the whole world and you're trying to target a smaller area, you're probably spending less money.
SPEAKER_04100%.
SPEAKER_01So it becomes more accessible as well.
SPEAKER_04Um and that's something that I've seen in with meta ads as well. Earlier in meta ads, you have to do a lot of thinking about who do you want to target and so on. Now, official recommendation from Meta is you just put what is your offering, work on your creative and the offer, and leave it on Meta to determine the right people who are going to be receiving the message. And Meta gets it so well. Like you don't have to really do a lot of that targeting because MetaZI can do that. So I think with the help of AI, these advertising tools are getting better as well.
SPEAKER_01So we asked you the question of what do you think is is coming next. I want to frame that in a different way. It's can we really know if what's coming next? Because these changes come hard and fast. I mean, Claude felt like I I know it wasn't, but it felt like it came out of nowhere and became a dominator really quickly. Um could it be Google in a couple of months? Are they cooking up something and that can happen? Can open AI make a resurgence? Can there be a new player in the field that's gonna step up and start to disrupt everything? Can we really know what's coming?
SPEAKER_04That's a good question. So we cannot really know for sure what's coming, especially with uh what models are gonna come and what advancements are gonna come. But we can definitely make some hypothesis very confidently about where the world is going and some things that we are we are sure can say what's gonna happen or what's not gonna happen. So the first thing is that we are not ever going to go back to a world without AI. So it's it's not it's not a it's not a hype, it's not toothpaste is out of the tube, you know, yes. It's it's it's not uh bubble, it's not going to burst. No, it's valuations can decrease or so on. It's uh something that is here to stay.
SPEAKER_01And outside of the tech industry, do people really care? I mean, do people care if the AI is open AI, if it's anthropic, if it's Google?
SPEAKER_04They don't care. Like as long as uh they get their work done, that's what what they're uh worried about. And the second reality we know is that the business, as we knew earlier, it has shifted, it has changed. I the conversation that I have with businesses everywhere now. Like last year I was saying Australian businesses are sleeping, they are not sleeping anymore. They're awake, they're awake, they they know what's happening, and the the way we do business is changing and it's gonna change forever. We we know that we are seeing job marketing change, job the whole job market changing. The question is about when it's gonna happen, like and to what extent? We know there's gonna be a displacement, where it's gonna be a change. How much? Like, we know there's gonna be some business that will have an edge, some businesses would not have that edge because of the gap. But how much? Like, would those businesses be able to survive? Would we have some very prominent businesses and that's it? What's gonna happen to our jobs? Because we are just we like right now with the knowledge that we have, we make assumptions, okay, it's it's just about the knowledge workers and we still be able to delegate jobs and so on. But what does that displacement look like? What yes, and and that's a question that also keeps me awake uh like every day is like what is the limit? Where are we gonna stop from?
SPEAKER_01How do you have extra time to be awake?
SPEAKER_04Uh I'm I'm awake all the time nowadays. Yes, yeah, yes.
SPEAKER_01Just sending sending things over to sending to my my Claude team.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Yes, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Or possibly just, you know, spamming your mother-in-law.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But I hope at some point you are throwing in a few joke messages. I think that's important. Don't let that moment go. Uh yes. Because what we can't do in the age of AI is lose our humanity. I know, yes, yes. And a bit of ragging of your mother-in-law, that's that kind of feels like you've set that up very nicely. I'll play up Frank on the crazy. Sorry, Sarah. I'm very sorry for putting that in there.
SPEAKER_04I'll definitely play up Frank on her. Yes, yeah. Yeah. So, but coming back to your questions, I just feel it's it's such a funny space at the moment. Like we are we've never been in such an uncertain uh world ever. And everyone is trying to predict and judge and make a hypothesis. We don't even know that even the worst hypothesis, like, are they even able to imagine what's gonna happen? Uh and when it's gonna happen, how fast, how how quick. There's a bit of race that's going on, these larger organizations, like uh they are in a different race. Businesses are trying to sort of try to sort of like work out how it means for the business. There's a tussle between governance and the speed and velocity. People are worried about their jobs, but they want to learn AI as well. There's excitement and fear. So it's it's a very uh different world to live in. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's chaos rules, huh?
SPEAKER_04It is, yes. Yeah. What's your advice to people in this world?
SPEAKER_01Oh, my advice is the same advice it always has been, is stay curious and remember that you're a person.
SPEAKER_04That's a good advice.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, don't get confused by the don't get don't buy into the the idea that you can predict because you can't. We really just have to deal with with what's in front of us. And I think there's there's so much that's exciting about AI. There's so much promise in there to to really start to tackle some of the things that I mean we we talk about agents being able to take some of the pain points out of our everyday life, but if we can sort of get to the point where some of those blockers are out of the way and we can start to tackle real things and put human energy and creativity into things that can really add value, that to me is really exciting. And there's you know, I think there's so many challenges that we haven't even really put words to because they weren't really an option to do anything about. And you know, we're people, so we can sit here and philosophize for a certain amount of time and then you just still have to go and pay your bills and pick up the kids and you know, clean up after your French bulldog that does not clean up after themselves, and neither is AR gonna do it for me.
SPEAKER_04But um so talking about that, I have a very interesting news to share. I've been working on a project called Agents for Humanity. Uh, it's a common place uh where if you have got a problem, it's not live yet. We are testing it with few not-for-profits uh NGOs. If you've got a problem around poverty, education, how to plan a city, you put the problem over there.
SPEAKER_01Hundreds of how do we get people into homes they can afford in Australia today? Yeah. Intractable problems.
SPEAKER_04Absolutely. You put the problems over there. Hundreds of agents actually work on that problem uh through a very clear design thinking process. They debate their problem, research it, and from there they try to devise a synthesis. There's like a council that's created, they vote on that uh final proposals as well, and from there, a few proposals are chosen, and then from there an implementation plan is created. And on that point, I have a very interesting news to share. So I've been working on a project uh with some really interesting people. It's called Agents for Humanity. So, as we know, there are so many problems in the world that are unsolved. Uh, there's a problem around education. How do you educate someone in rural India who's looking for quick outcomes? There's no playbook for that. Or how do you solve a problem here with Murabull Street? Or it could be about world hunger and so on. So, with Agents for Humanity, it's going to be an open platform where anyone, any not-for-profit, any individual can put a problem over there. And uh a team of hundreds of agents will follow particular roles uh to solve that problem, debate that problem, research on that, steel man it, and from there create proposals and try try to drive synthesis out of it. And once the synthesis is created, it's gonna create an action plan to actually solve that problem. So that uh project has been selected. Uh, there's an AI for good council uh uh that's actually supported by United Nations.
SPEAKER_02So there's AI for goods amazing.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, so they're uh they have got a pitching competition. So we are in like top five in Australia that has been selected. So I'm going to uh to congratulations. Thank you. Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_00That's something.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and it's just it was like just a harebrained idea. At three o'clock in the morning, presumably. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Have you got a name? So you've you've called it for humanity.
SPEAKER_04Agents for humanity. Agents for humanity. But the key thing with this, like when people are put putting the problem and we are solving this solution, providing a solution, it requires a lot of compute. So we were calculating to solve a problem, you need like $6,000 to $8,000 worth of compute. Yeah. So the interesting thing is that as an individual who's uses Claude or OpenClaw or Chat GPT, you can send your agent in there to contribute. So as a part of your subscription, it's just going in there, can making a contribution and coming back. Yeah. So which means we as an organization, we like we can solve hundreds and thousands of problems with the help of the agents that people are sending or the compute that people already have, which is sitting unjuceded. Yeah. And we are using that energy or power to actually solve things for humanity.
SPEAKER_01That's unbelievably cool. Congratulations.
SPEAKER_04Thank you. Thanks a lot.
SPEAKER_01How much how many people in your team have been working on this?
SPEAKER_04Suzween, uh, like we have we are around uh six people who have been working on this. This is awesome. Yes, we have been working with five uh uh organizations, uh like a couple in India, three in Australia in different levels. We asked them to give us a problem. And right now we are just trying it with our own compute at the moment. We have got some really good commitments from some universities who are willing to give us computers.
SPEAKER_01This is really exciting.
SPEAKER_04Yes, but then the aim is to open it up on the world because the actual final synthesis and everything would be available for the world to access. So which means if a problem has been solved in Kenya, someone in India should have the access to that as well.
SPEAKER_01So, I mean, when you when you ask me what's my advice, my advice is just that it's keep looking for the good. Because we can't we can't know what's gonna happen. And as much as we can sit there and worry about jobs and you know, AI taking over the world, and I've got I've got kids that are starting to look at what kind of career am I gonna have, and I can't tell them anything other than focus on things that help people, focus on things that you can add value, focus on things that you can enjoy, and just stay curious and be okay with the fact that you're not gonna know everything because we're not. This is all gonna be a bit of a ride. But what always gives me hope and what I always come back to is that there is this incredible power that we are developing. It won't be perfect, it won't get everything right because we as people, clearly, don't know whether we're not perfect and we don't get everything right. But there's the ability to solve things in ways that we haven't been able to do before. And that to me is the hope. And I think if collectively, if all of us at an individual level and then collectively keep remembering that we're people, then I think we're gonna be okay.
SPEAKER_04We will be, yes.
SPEAKER_01But you know, I'm a glass half full kind of person. And I love AI, it's really cool. So it's been exciting.
SPEAKER_05Yes.
SPEAKER_01Well, thank you for for coming back again. Thank you for inviting me back into this uh very cool podcast space. I've been really enjoying it. And thank you to everyone who has joined us once again for the Dumb Monkey podcast. It's cool to be back. Thank you. Um by the time we see you again, presumably the world of AI will have exploded. We will all be in a simulation, but we'll be back, hopefully, in the podcast studio anyway. So thank you, Amir. Thank you. And thank you all. We'll see you next time on the Dumb Monkey Show.
