Clothed In Righteousness

We explore the breastplate of righteousness and learn why we are made righteous by faith and not by performance. Pastor Brad Drake joins us to as we take a deep dive into the Biblical definition of what righteousness really is and how it applies to our everyday lives. 

Transcript

Setting The Aim: Righteousness

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Welcome to Searching for Scripture, where we find the connections between Scripture and the world around us, because Scripture isn't hidden, it's just waiting to be seen. In this episode, we'll be continuing our study of the armor of God and taking a deeper look into the breastplate of righteousness. I realized that I didn't really have a good understanding of what righteousness was in our lives, and chances are you might not either. If you're willing to keep an open mind and challenge yourself, stick around and together we'll figure out what righteousness really is. Thanks for being here. I hope you enjoy. You know, every time that I thought about the breastplate of righteousness, the same phrase always came to mind: clothed in righteousness. This is one of those phrases that I remembered coming from the Bible somewhere, but honestly couldn't tell you where. Though I still wasn't really sure, because there's been plenty of times that I've said phrases or new phrases that I thought were from the Bible, but it turned out to just be a man-made saying that was based on Scripture in some way. However, with a quick Google search, it led me to a few verses. Psalms 132, verse 9 Let your priests be clothed with righteousness, and let your saints shout for joy. Isaiah 6110 says, I will greatly rejoice in the Lord, my soul shall exalt in my God, for he has clothed me in garments of salvation, he has covered me with a robe of righteousness, and the bridegroom decks himself like a priest with a beautiful headdress, and the bride adorns herself with jewels. And finally, Revelation 19 8 says, It was granted to her to clothe herself with fine linen, bright and pure with fine linen, is the righteous deeds of the saints.

Reading Ephesians 6:10–20

SPEAKER_00 1:50

I think this gives us a good starting point to start digging into the breastplate of righteousness and how it relates to our lives. But just like before in the previous episodes, we're going to start by reading through Ephesians 6, 10 through 20, and then we'll jump in and get things started. Ephesians 6, 10 through 20, it says, Finally be strong in the Lord and in the strength of his might. What on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil, for we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers of the present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil and the heavenly places. Therefore, take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all to stand firm, stand therefore, having fastened on the belt of truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness, and the shoes for your feet, having put on the readiness given by the gospel of peace. In all circumstances, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all flaming darts of the evil one, and take up the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God, praying in all times in the Spirit, with prayer and supplication. To that end, keep alert in all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints, and also for me, that the words may be given to me in the opening of my mouth, boldly to proclaim the mystery of the gospel, for which I am an ambassador in a chains, that I may declare it boldly as I ought to speak.

What A Breastplate Does

SPEAKER_00 3:18

So, unlike some of the other pieces, we don't really get much description for the breastplate. It's simply just part of the list. But that being said, that just means we need to dig a little deeper and look past the words to find the meaning behind it. The breastplate is usually the largest piece of armor, other than the shield in some cases. It protects the most surface area of the body. It protects the heart, the lungs, and other vital organs in your body from attacks from weapons like swords and arrows. It became a crucial part in most of, if not all, suits of armor. While as most things, different cultures and time periods had their own spin on it, the idea and the core function was the same across the

Breastplates In History

SPEAKER_00 4:02

board. To give you some examples, here are a few iconic breastplates in history for us to take a look at. The first is the muscle curse that the Greeks stylized to mimic the muscular figures of their warriors. This is most notable in the armor worn by the Spartans. Now, when when you think about the Spartans, what comes to mind? The movie 300. Before you go looking at it to verify, no, they didn't actually wear breastplates in the movie. This was a somatic decision that director Zack Schneider took to amplify the dramatic effect of the movie. Historically, though, the Spartan warriors at the Battle of Thermopylae would have worn these bronze curses. Probably the most iconic breastplate is the full plate armor worn by the knights of the medieval Europe. Well, at its introduction, it was more common for warriors to wear chain mail due to its reduced weight and advanced mobility. It became a standard among knights by the late Middle Ages. Plate armor provided much more protection than its predecessors, and as it advanced, it was tailored and designed to contour to the body of the knight, giving it much better mobility. A major drawback, though, was that it added weight, and the armor during hotter weathers would become extremely uncomfortable because of how quickly it heated up. Despite this discomfort, knights often overlooked and endured them when compared to the battle advantages they offered. Lastly, one of the lesser-known ones, but something you've probably seen before. The Comanches and other plains indigenous peoples were known to create ceremonial breastplates made of hair pipes. These were elaborate handcrafted breastplates that were initially designed for protection, but later evolved into symbols of prosperity, status, and spiritual strength. They were worn at ceremonies, dances, and important meetings, and oftentimes they were made from animal bones, shell, and other materials that were strung together on leather strips. These are only a few examples of the breastplate. But chances are, regardless of the culture or time period, most warriors that wore armor probably wore some sort of breastplate protection.

Rethinking Righteousness Beyond Works

SPEAKER_00 6:23

When looking at the medieval plate armor, I came across an article that I originally tried to connect with righteousness. You may have caught it earlier when I said it, but the article talked about despite how the armor was heavy and uncomfortable, the knights just endured it. And they did this because the battle advantages that it offered vastly outweighed the disadvantages. I think a lot of times as Christ followers, this is how we view righteousness. When I started this episode, I would say that I fell within that category. I saw that article and what it said about the knight's view of the plate armor, and I thought, wow, that's perfect. In our lives, we strive to be righteous, and we have to choose to do it because the advantages outweigh the disadvantages. This will be a perfect illustration for this episode. However, actually when I actually started digging into what righteousness was in our lives, I realized that I didn't actually have a good understanding of what it actually was. Chances are many of you probably are in the same boat. I hope that by the end of this episode you will have a more clear understanding of righteousness from a biblical perspective and what it looks like in our lives.

Meet Pastor Brad Drake

SPEAKER_00 7:38

To help us understand this, I've invited a special guest to join us for this episode.

SPEAKER_01 7:44

Okay, well, this is uh gonna be our first time doing this, so I'm excited for it. Um for all of our listeners, we have uh Pastor Brad Drake um joining us for today. Uh why don't you let our listeners uh know a little bit about yourself?

SPEAKER_03 8:00

Well, okay, well, first of all, this is my first podcast, so uh I'm I'm excited about this to be a part of it. Um a little bit about me. I am uh uh I'm a husband, uh, been married for a little over 22 years now. Uh um I'm a dad. I've got five kids uh ranging from ages 20 down to 11, and uh and then I'm a pastor. Uh I've been the lead pastor uh here at Day Spring Church for uh 14 years now. So I've been in full-time ministry since uh 1996, and uh so uh right at 30 years of full-time ministry, and uh um I guess I'm supposed to say I've loved every minute of it. Um and uh but but generally speaking, uh God's been better to me uh than I deserve. Uh to to quote another famous person. Um but uh but it's been it's been good. Uh God's been good to us, He's been faithful to us uh all through the years.

SPEAKER_01 9:05

So

Defining Righteousness

SPEAKER_01 9:06

awesome. Yeah, that's awesome. So um just to give you a little context of our episode that we're talking about here, uh the topic is about righteousness. And we're looking at the breastplate of righteousness and going through the uh the armor of God and breaking down each piece. And one of the things that um just to kind of start off with, we can give kind of the dictionary definition of righteousness, because from what I found out, it I think it it kind of lends to the misinterpretation of what righteousness really is.

SPEAKER_03 9:37

Right.

SPEAKER_01 9:37

Um so the dictionary defines it as acting in accord with divine or moral law, being morally right or justifiable in arising from an outraged sense of justice or morality. And if you use it in a slang term, it usually means genuine or excellent.

SPEAKER_03 9:52

Umighted.

SPEAKER_01 9:56

Um and I think it I think when you look at these in the context of what biblical righteousness is, it kind of gives that um kind of the misinterpretation of you know, this righteousness is something you kind of have to strive for, something you have to live up to. Um, which personally for me, and we had a brief conversation about it before, um, that was kind of what what I I thought, you know, and one of the things that I talk about in the episode, I saw a or was reading an article about the full plate armor that the knights used to wear. And one of the things it said was that the the knights oftentimes would overlook the the weight of it and the the uncomfortable, how uncomfortable it was because the advantages outweighed the disadvantages. And when I first saw that, I was like, oh, that's that's perfect, because you know, in in our life we have to strive to be righteous because the um you know the the advantage of following Christ and and all of that and being righteous is um outweighs the disadvantages of living an unrighteous life. But after we talked, um you kind of gave me some scriptures to look over and it really God really opened my eyes to what righteousness really was in our lives. Um so I want to I want to hear from you, what is when you when you think of righteousness from a biblical perspective, what does it look like for you?

SPEAKER_03 11:21

That's a good question. Um well, first of all, backing up to um it's not the first time that um that a biblical definition uh uh from a from a world view that's not uh a dictionary definition as opposed to a biblical definition, um, there's a there's usually some conflict there. Um but for for me the the the definition that that I've kind of developed into um is as I think it is right standing with God. Um and then as I've kind of developed that, it's it is our ability to be able to stand before God, to be in His presence. Um and so so to have right standing with God, uh to be in right relationship with God is is to me what righteousness is. Um because um God is righteousness, he is the perfection that that we all he wants to be in our presence and we need to be in his presence. And so, in order for us to be in his presence, we have to be in right standing with him. Because the scripture says that that that no sin can enter the kingdom, no God God's presence and sin uh don't ever mix. Um and so in order for for us to be able to be in his presence, we have to be righteous. Uh that means that means pure. Um without uh without spot or wrinkle, as the the King James Version talks about the bride of Christ. Um and so uh it is a high standard. It's the highest of all standards. Uh now I think where the difference is is how do we achieve that? How how do we um how are we able to stand in the presence of a holy God? So being short definition, right standing with God.

SPEAKER_01 13:35

Okay, awesome. Um

Faith Versus Works: Abraham’s Example

SPEAKER_01 13:37

so one of the things that that I was looking at is you know, through some of the scriptures that you had given me was that um we we are made righteous through faith. Is that something that, you know, a a statement that you would think is is accurate?

SPEAKER_03 13:54

Sure, absolutely. Uh I mean this the scripture says that the righteous will live by faith. Um and so it is it is a um it is a believing in something outside of ourselves that enables us to be righteous.

SPEAKER_01 14:10

Yeah. Um I I actually had that that verse written down in Galatians 3, or in Galatians 3, talking about the righteous shall live by faith. And um in Romans 4, um there's a scripture that that says, for for if Abraham was justified by works, he was um he has something to boast about, but not before God. Um for for what does for the scripture says Abraham believed in God and was counted to him as righteous. So I think what what I think the the definition or the the worldly definition of righteousness, I feel like it it kind of leans more towards the the works part of it is you know you have to be this this perfect person, you have to be um this you know do all of these these right things to be to be righteous, to be able to stand before God, which in a sense, you know, it it yields itself to that because we have to be in right standing with God.

SPEAKER_02 15:12

Right.

SPEAKER_01 15:12

Um but like you said, the the way we do that is very different from I think what the world sees it from.

SPEAKER_03 15:22

Well, the the the Abraham picture, which is which is God's word to us, is the greatest picture, is that he didn't do everything right, but that and the you know the the sign of that covenant was the circumcision. Um and and the questions I asked, was he circumcised before or after? Was it the action that caused him to be righteous, or was the action a fruit of the righteousness? And that's where I think the biblical definition and the and the the dictionary definition differ. Is it it says about Abraham that because of his faith, because he believed God, he was righteous. And then his actions came after, the actions of the covenant came after. And so it it debunks the theory that that we can do something or have to do something to be righteous. Abraham, all Abraham did was believe, and he was righteous.

SPEAKER_01 16:28

Yeah. Um, so I

The Fruit Of Righteousness In Life

SPEAKER_01 16:31

think you made a good point about the the fruit of righteousness. What is um what does that look like? Are there are there some scriptures that that you can you know on off the top of your head that can elaborate on what what the fruit of righteousness looks like in our life, what the result of righteousness looks like in our lives?

SPEAKER_03 16:51

Well, uh and and you know, we all know this the scripture in James that says that faith without works is dead. Um and and so the the actions of our life, and you you look through the New Testament and when um when Paul is encouraging the church and others are encouraging the church, um he he he tells them don't you know don't hang out with people who uh don't don't think right, uh who don't think about right things. Um it wasn't that that creates the righteousness, but the actions follow up, um uh having right thinking, um saying things that are uh pure and righteous rather than the ungodly things. Um and so um and the the chapters and verses always seem to escape me uh in in the moment, which the Lord knew um he knew what generation I would live in, and so he he gave me Google and and and uh Bible programs to help me remember all those. But but to um to just think about um who God is and his perfection, and once we have received that, then we're gonna talk the way he talked, and we're gonna walk the way he walked and live the way he walked. And the greatest example of that is obviously Jesus, in that in that Jesus was the embodiment of God. He was all that God is uh in bodily form. And so we look to him not just as a moral example, but uh because he was obviously much more than that, but he did live that perfect life. He's the only one to have walked on this earth in full faith and perfection. And so we look at what Jesus said, we look at the way he treated people, we look at the way he loved the unlovable, uh, he reached out to people that um others were rejecting. Um, and so all of those, I believe, are the fruits of righteousness.

SPEAKER_01 19:13

Awesome. Um

Why We Misread Righteousness

SPEAKER_01 19:14

we kind of touched on this a little bit, but do you think that most people have kind of a misunderstanding of what righteousness is? And where do you think that that comes from?

SPEAKER_03 19:24

Oh, absolutely. I I think that that I mean, all of us have at one point in time had that thought, like you said, that oh, I've got to do this or do that to be right with God. Um and and I think that, I mean, number one, it comes from the enemy, uh, because that's that's what he wants us to do. That's what Satan wants us to do, is get caught up in this trap of, well, you you better do this, or you better, you know, make this change, or you better do this or do that, or God's not gonna like you anymore. Um maybe maybe that was just me. I don't think so. I think that's all of us, is that um because of that, um because of that pressure uh uh on our actions. But then obviously, uh, I mean, uh, you know, Noah Webster was a uh uh was a Bible scholar. He understood, but yet um in his dictionary definition, we still don't get the the true picture. And so as a culture, um we have created that that idea that our righteousness depends on what we do. And and so we kind of get grown up into that. And you know, even as uh even as parents, you know, um I've I've been guilty of um kind of reinforcing that negative uh even with my kids. Uh if if if you'll do this, um well then you'll get this. Uh if you know if you if you go clean your room, then we'll go, you know, then we'll go get ice cream. Um so I think we kind of reinforce that. Um I I think sometimes that we should probably um take our kids to go I go eat ice cream even when they don't do everything right. Yeah, just for fun. Just for fun. Yeah. You know, just because we love them. Um now that doesn't mean that we um that we don't correct bad behavior, and and I think that that is uh another point is in our righteousness, in walking in the righteousness of God, there is certainly discipline. There is certainly instruction. And, you know, the Bible says that that uh God disciplines his children, he disciplines those he loves, those that are in relationship. He's not mad at us, but he disciplines us, and that's a part of the the process. You know, the Bible talks about it in this way. You know, we talk about being righteous and salvation. Those are sort of terms that are that can be used together. But when you look at the original language, it talks about the fact that we were saved. When Jesus paid the price, we were saved. We were made righteous. But it also says that we are being saved, that we are being made righteous, this process of sanctification, and then ultimately we will be saved. We will be righteous. We'll stand before God. We'll live in God's presence for it for eternity in that state of righteousness. So it's it's the uh it's what was done for us, it's what is being done for us, and what will eventually be done for us for all eternity. So in that is the process of walking out righteousness.

SPEAKER_01 22:58

Yeah. Yeah. And I think kind of how you touched on with you know how we we work with our kids sometimes. I think that's just kind of a mentality of our culture, too, is that in order to get this, I have to do this, or I have to to do this the right way in order to to achieve this this goal or or this higher standing. Sure. And I think that that kind of that kind of goes with that because we we oftentimes will take our our worldly view on things or how the the world sees in the culture and try to fit that into what we think God wants from us. And so you get that idea of like, oh, well, I have to do all these things, I have to clean myself up, I have to do this before I can go to God, before God will accept me. And the Bible gives us a completely different view on that. And then God just accepts us, and you know, you know, you're that come as you are mentality, and we'll we'll work it out together. Right. And so I think that that that a lot of times, you know, as what you touched on and kind of what our culture is, a lot of times that's where our views come from, is the time we live in and and the people around us. Absolutely.

How to Shift the Mentality

SPEAKER_01 24:05

Um, what are some ways that for anyone that is in that mindset of that misunderstanding what righteousness is, what would you recommend to our listeners to um to help shift that view to towards what the biblical view of righteousness is?

SPEAKER_03 24:23

Um well I think I think part of it is is obviously the more time we spend uh reading God's word, um, even the even the the things that we don't completely understand and you know have a knowledge of, I've I've I've been um I've been going through uh the Bible project uh in my in my daily devotional um and it and it even gave me a whole new perspective on some things um because people see things a little bit different. But but if you if you really go back and look at the Old Testament, um, you know, I mean obviously we know we live uh under the new covenant, um, but every the Bible says that everything in the Old Testament was given to us as an example, um, is an example of of how to be righteous or what it looks like. Um and I think the when you spend time looking at the the the awesome righteousness of God, how powerful he was. I mean, to the point that when when he came uh to uh to the mount to on Mount Sinai, he told him, listen, don't even touch the mountain because it'll kill you, it'll destroy you, because your unrighteousness can't be in the presence of God. And most of us stop at that concept and go, oh, well, you know, God is so big, I can never approach. No, that wasn't the idea. The idea was, yes, he is holy, but that he gave instruction, he gave wisdom to Moses of, hey, here's set this tabernacle up, set this tent up. Now do it like I say, but set it up because I want to be with you. I want my presence to be there. And and and the process of seeing how much God wants to be with us. And I think that what is is I think what can help us change that mindset from looking at it of, oh, I'll never be good enough or I can't be good enough, to no matter what the Israelites did, God always provided a way because He wanted to be. So it's not what we do. I think, but if we if we really see God's word for what it is, is that it's God's love story to us, that it's his story of not how bad we are. I mean, ultimately you look through the whole scripture, and every time he gave them law, every time he gave them anything, well, they blew it, of course, and we all do. But that was that was the truth. I think it was Paul who said that the law, the Torah, the those laws of God, they are a schoolmaster to lead us to Jesus. Uh it helps us understand how much God does love us and how much he wants to be with his creation, that he would go to the greatest lengths for that. So I think that's what that's what helps us change that mentality from what do I have to do to get to God to look at how much God loves me, what the great lengths he has gone to so that I can be in his presence.

SPEAKER_01 28:05

Yeah, that's good. Um,

Clothed In Righteousness Through Scripture

SPEAKER_01 28:07

so one of the things that I've titled this episode is Clothed in Righteousness. Um, because when I looking through or when I think of righteousness, that was the term that always popped in my head was clothed in righteousness. And I was at when I started preparing for writing us down and preparing for this episode. I I was like, well, I know that I I remember that phrase, but I couldn't remember if it was actually from scripture or if it was just one of those phrases that we've just said for so long and we think it's from scripture. But I looked it up and there was a few verses that um that that I got from that that talk about kind of that idea of being clothed in righteousness. Uh there was Psalms 139 that says the priests were clothed with righteousness. Isaiah 61, uh 10 talks about a robe of righteousness, and uh Revelations 19, 8 talks about um she clothed herself in fine linen, which is the righteousness, righteous deeds of the saints. Um so what is what is that, you know, with everything we've talked about, how does being clothed in righteousness fit in that that that phrase fit into what the biblical idea of?

SPEAKER_03 29:17

It's it it's it's it's prevalent all through scripture. Go back to uh again the the kind of the beginning of the covenant relationship, um, Aaron, the first high priest, um what I mean, and Moses gave him, or God gave Moses specific instructions about the garments that they had to wear. If if they were to come into uh the tabernacle, if they were to come into God's presence, um, then they had to be clothed properly, they had to have the right garments on. Um, and then you you carry that you carry that on. Well, and the truth is

From Eden To Christ: Garments Given

SPEAKER_03 30:02

you go even back further than that, as as all the way back to the garden. What did what did God do in the garden right after? Well, first of all, right after in Genesis 3, when they sinned, they tried to clothe themselves. What did Adam and Eve do? Well, they went and sewed fig leaves together because they were ashamed. But then what did God do? God clothed them, he killed an animal, and he put the animal skin on them, and they were clothed. And so from the very beginning, and then all the way through, then we see in the New Testament that Jesus was that sacrificial lamb, that he was he was killed, and then we are then clothed just the way God clothed Adam and Eve with the skin of an animal, we're clothed with that righteousness that was God, that was Jesus. He he became sin for us, he became the sin offering, and then we are now clothed with his righteousness. And then it goes all the way through, then we see the garments. And you you you see when um uh when when we get the teaching about uh when Jesus is talking about the wedding feast, um everybody's invited, everybody comes, but there was someone who showed up and did not have the wedding garments, and we don't have time in this podcast to go through all of that, but but the one who did not have the wedding garment was cast out, couldn't stay, was invited, but couldn't stay because he didn't have the garment. So um as as being clothed with righteousness, that means um uh and and the New Testament tells us to put on the Lord Jesus Christ. Again, that that idea of the garment goes from the beginning to the end. Um so uh it's not something that we can, uh it's not a garment that we purchase, it's a garment that's provided for us, but we have the responsibility of putting it on.

SPEAKER_02 32:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:25

And and so that kind of goes back to the faith without works, is we still have to put it on. And as you look in the New Testament, um, you know, the apostles are talking to the church. Paul is writing uh to the church and the leaders, but he continually tells them, hey, you know, do this, think this way, don't hang out with these people, do the so we do have a part to play, but it is a result of the garment that's been provided for us.

SPEAKER_01 32:56

That's good. I I didn't make that connection with with the garden. Um that's one of my I always love about how God provided the scripture to us because I remember seeing a graphic um that showed all of the connections and relations between scripture. It's just this vast web of all this stuff. And it's really amazing to see that you know everything is connected. It's not just it's not just words on a page.

SPEAKER_03 33:22

And um and and it's one story. Yeah. It's yes, it's 66 books and it's got all these different storylines, but from Genesis to Revelation, it's just one story that points to Jesus and then the eventual redemption.

SPEAKER_01 33:38

Yeah, that's great. Um,

Why A Breastplate Fits Righteousness

SPEAKER_01 33:40

so as we're looking at the armor of God and the breastplate of righteousness, um, do you think that the breastplate is a good representation of righteousness?

SPEAKER_03 33:50

Well, I think it is because it was in the Bible. Um and so that's kind of the main reason. Um, but I think even more in-depth than that, it is because um, well, and and I think you I mean, obviously he says put on the whole armor, and and and so we do want the whole armor and we need the whole armor, but I think it's interesting that that the the two most vital pieces, that's the helmet of salvation and the breastplate of righteousness, neither both of those are not anything that we do for ourselves. And so um our our our mind, our head, is covered with salvation, and our heart, which is really who we are, is is covered, protected by the righteousness that comes from God that we can't do for ourselves. Um and so that's why I think that that it is it is that it's that protection of the most vital parts of us. I mean, you can you know you can lose an arm, you can lose a leg, um, you can't lose your head or your heart and still live. Um and so God made sure to protect the most vital parts of our relationship with him, with things that he provides for us, not that what we provide for ourselves. Yeah. And I think that that lends it to helping us understand that righteousness comes from him, not from us.

SPEAKER_01 35:32

Yeah, that's really great. Um, so

Understanding Through the Process

SPEAKER_01 35:34

our our last question before we move on to our our lightning questions. Um, was there any moment in your life that that you feel where everything just kind of clicked about righteousness or something that that God revealed to you where you you made that shift from a misunderstanding of what it was to what what God says righteousness is?

SPEAKER_03 35:54

I don't know that I can just pinpoint one specific. Um I I think it is more of the cumulative. Yeah. Um and and I'd and I would have to say that I'm still learning those things and still coming to a better understanding. But um as as I was oh in my in my early 20s, um, heading toward my mid-20s, um, there there was some time of frustration, I guess would be a good word. Of I knew that God had called me to the ministry, but I wasn't seeing it happen, and I was getting older, or wasn't you know, everybody else around me was you know already in ministry, and then as God just began to to do miraculous things, and um it wasn't all just cream puffs and butterflies, there were difficult times. Um but between that time of my early 20s um until um probably my my early 30s, um I I learned a lot about how much God truly loved me. Um and I came to a better understanding that um that it wasn't just about what I did. Yes, there are always consequences, um, there are benefits for for trusting God, but there's consequences for choosing our own way, and we face those consequences. But in that time period of my of my life, um I didn't always make right choices. Uh, but yet somehow God in his mercy still got me to where he wanted me to be. Um the could the road have been easier, maybe, but in that spiritual formation in our life, um, we need those hard times. But it was in that in that time period, early 20s to early 30s, that I I really came to a better understanding that my relationship with God depends a whole lot more on him than it does on me.

SPEAKER_02 38:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:11

And and that that has helped me in even in the ministry I'm in today, to be able to look back on those times when when it gets hard, when it gets difficult, to look back on those times and go, you know what? God, you were faithful then and you'll be faithful now. And you were faithful then not because I was perfect, but because Jesus made me righteous. Yeah. And so that's that that would I would think that would be the time period that I I learned the most.

SPEAKER_01 38:44

Yeah, well, I guess a good message to our our listeners is, you know, if you are dealing with, you know, in that place of not understanding righteousness, it's not gonna be a quick fix thing. Like sure, it's you're gonna have to live through it. It's a process. And and God's gonna work through that through the things that you're going through, and he's gonna teach you um over time. And you know, that's I feel like while while I do believe that God has the ability to just do that, to instantly fix things in our life, a lot of times He He chooses to take the long road, as you often say, you know, we live in a microwave uh mentality, but God's a crock pot god.

SPEAKER_03 39:23

He's a crock pot god, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 39:25

And so I mean it's while I think it comes down to we we need to be patient, we need to trust in God's timing. And if you are seeking that answer, ask him to reveal it to you. And you know, through but I guess the the other flip side of that is be ready for what he has in store in order to teach you. Sure. Because I feel like a lot of times we we joke that we we ask God for patience and he puts us in in situations where we need patience.

SPEAKER_03 39:53

Absolutely. That's the only way the Bible says it's through tribulation that you get patience, but but ultimately in that process, we we can be encouraged and stay in that process because we know that our righteousness comes from him, right? That we are made righteous because of what Jesus did, not because we make all the right decisions.

SPEAKER_01 40:18

Yeah, exactly.

Lightning Round: Deep Thought

SPEAKER_01 40:20

All right, well, we'll move on to our I got a list of our lightning questions here. So I can I didn't give you this ahead of time, so maybe it would be a little fun. So we'll start off with some more kind of deeper thought-provoked questions, and we'll finish off with some more fun ones. So

Pastor Brad's Life Verse

SPEAKER_01 40:34

um, do you have a particular scripture that you would say is your favorite or your go-to one that you oftentimes uh look back on a lot?

SPEAKER_03 40:42

Um I I if I if I had to say what my I guess what my life verse would be, yeah. Um uh it would, it's Isaiah chapter 40, uh verse 31. Um those that those that wait on the Lord um will renew their strength. They'll mount up with wings like eagles, and they'll run and not grow weary and walk and not faint. Um there's uh you you look the few verses before it after it, there's um there's some really good stuff in there, but but ultimately um when when I put my trust in the Lord, uh that's what it means to wait. And I have a whole sermon. Um, and matter of fact, just just found that's a new insight to that the other day, and I'll I'll save that for another day. All right, but um, but when when I when I just trust him, then he renews my strength.

SPEAKER_02 41:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:39

And that's that that's my I mean obviously there's there's lots of scriptures, but uh, but that one is that's my I guess that would be my life verse if you want to use that term.

SPEAKER_01 41:50

That's good. Um so okay, if you had if

A Book of God's Mercy

SPEAKER_01 41:53

if you wrote or if someone wrote a book about your life, um, what would the title be?

SPEAKER_02 41:59

Oh gosh. Um man, I don't even know.

SPEAKER_03 42:06

Um other than God's mercy, I don't know that anything else would be that would have to be the highlight because I've I've made enough stupid decisions in my life that you know, however you would want to phrase that, but the mercy of God would have to be the highlight.

SPEAKER_01 42:28

Yeah, no, that's fine. I when I was uh writing this question uh my first thought that came to mind is you call it the Drake translation.

SPEAKER_03 42:35

Yeah, yeah. That's and that is true. That's that's uh that's the easiest version of the Bible for me to memorize, is the Drake translation.

SPEAKER_01 42:45

Um has

Small Habits Big Impacts

SPEAKER_01 42:46

there been a small habit in your life that really changed your life more than you expected, whether it be good or bad?

SPEAKER_03 42:58

You know, I I think uh because I I usually think kind of in the now um rather than you know looking back too far. Yeah. Um I if I'm honest, uh, and I try to be uh is I think that my my phone and social media uh has probably um distracted my attention more than I thought it would. Um and I think it's a bad habit, and I'm trying to do better at it, and I'm trying to help lead my kids to be better at it. Um I honestly think that um social media and and the access of our phones um is probably one of the greatest ills of our generation. Um, and I'm having to work through that just like everybody else.

SPEAKER_01 43:53

Yeah, no, I think that's something that most people can probably relate to. Um one of the things on that note, when we we just went through a 21 days of prayer and fasting and one of the things that I felt God put on my heart was to disconnect during that time. Right. And I I only use my Bible. I writing sermons for the youth. I wrote it out. I hand wrote my sermon out instead of typing it up on a computer just because I I wanted to fully disconnect. Sure. And I remember there was one day that I was uh writing it out on my lunch break at work and I remember telling God it's like this I could do this so much faster by just type it up on the computer. Like it's just so inefficient. And he said it's not about efficiency, it's about disconnect. I want you to connect with to put that stuff aside so you can really listen and connect with me. So yeah so I think that's that's probably a habit that that we all have and we can work on. Is there

Discovery: New Insights

SPEAKER_01 44:52

is there one word that you would say describes your current season with God or potentially something you feel like God is is put on your heart for an upcoming season maybe.

SPEAKER_02 45:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:08

One word is always hard for me.

SPEAKER_03 45:13

Oh gosh. The word discovery comes comes to mind um in in that you know I've I've been in church my whole life uh I I I always say it I've been in church since before I was born uh because my mom and dad pastored my mom played the piano and there's pictures of me in my mama's belly as she played the piano in church. So um but yet there's not a there's not a a season of my life where I haven't discovered something new or something more applicable to my life. And and I think right now there's just some of those some of those discoveries those things I'm discovering just as an example um we were we're talking about the Old Testament and and you know the the the Abrahamic covenant and and all and the tabernacle and all those things I always saw that as um and it is a a forward thinking of heaven that that you know the tabernacle was essentially heaven on earth. But I just uh discovered because of somebody else's perspective of of that actually looking back to the Garden of Eden that the tabernacle was in essence the Garden of Eden on earth yeah which which those are those are the same. Yeah eventually we're gonna come full circle um but it was just I had not in 53 years of living had not seen the tabernacle as the the garden yeah and so it was just a it was a new discovery that was just pretty cool.

SPEAKER_01 47:02

That's cool.

SPEAKER_03 47:03

All right so what if you

Biblical Time Travel

SPEAKER_03 47:05

could time travel to witness a a biblical moment what would what would be your go-to oh gosh there's so many of them I wouldn't want to have to stay in there um but if I could witness one I think I would I think I would have to say the day of Pentecost yeah to see what that really looked like I mean I believe what the Bible says you know and and but that was the that was the pivotal I mean there's obviously a lot of pivotal moments but that's for for where I live for where we live we're in the church age um but there's there's a lot of questions about certain things of how the Holy Spirit worked and moved and and and I I just think I would like to be there yeah to see how that actually transpired that 3000 people got saved and it was just really cool.

SPEAKER_01 48:04

So yeah that that's yeah that's where I'd want to go well I as I was asking that it came to mind you know I think it's it really depends too if you how you phrase it would you um because when we think about going back to witness a moment we're taking it from the perspective of we already know what happens we just want to see it. That's true. So a another I mean it could be the same one but I guess to re kind of rephrase it if you could go back to to live out just say a moment in the Bible that you had no context of like if to to have lived it out without knowing what the end was going to be does that change change what what you would answer?

SPEAKER_03 48:48

I don't know I st I still think I would I would want to be there it it's because it was at that moment that they moved that those those disciples who just you know uh a month earlier were locked in their house afraid for their lives yeah but in that moment there was such a power that it made them forget about that fear and so but but if I if I had no context for it um oh man I I'm glad I didn't have to live through those those things. Yeah you know I'm I'm grateful that I've I've got you know even though like I said there's controversy and people have misunderstanding but I I would much rather live where I am now than having gone through that but then those people that live there had the grace to to endure that.

SPEAKER_01 49:48

Yeah no that's good that's a good uh view of it. Um I always think one it's more of a a simple silly question that I I I always feel like growing up we always said like if you when you got to heaven if you could ask Jesus a question like what would it be? Right. And the thing that always came to mind that I think I've I've heard a lot of people joke about is when um when when they came to to stone the woman that was caught in the act of adultery and he went Jesus meant down to write in the sand. Right. It's like what did you write in the case what did you say? What did you write? Yeah what what made you turn away um yeah

Lightning Round: The Fun Ones

SPEAKER_01 50:23

so to move on to some more kind of lighthearted fun questions uh

Grown Men Can Still Love Cotten Candy

SPEAKER_01 50:27

in your opinion what is the most underrated snack the most underrated snack um I don't know if it's really considered a snack but um uh cotton candy okay uh I I I actually I mean I'm 53 years old I'm a grown man and I love cotton candy um it makes a mess but I love cotton candy all right that's good um

Dream Destinations

SPEAKER_01 50:58

if you could travel to anywhere in the world um what what's always been kind of your dream dream location um the Scotland and Ireland kind of area uh my my um my heritage is Scotch Irish um and I've never been to that part of the world and so um that's that's where I'd that's what I'd like to do that would be cool yeah I always wanted to growing up saying I wanted to go to France because similar situation we actually um I'm not sure if we still do but we used to have family that still lived in my grandparents went to visit a few times and um in high school I took French because of that because I was always we joked that whenever we go I could be our our translator but two years you know learning a language in high school and you stop you know oh that's not yeah um okay

Don't Put Pineapple on Your Pizza

SPEAKER_01 51:48

and another another food question what's what is your most controversial food opinion so an example is you know the that everyone likes bacon but some people are like bacon's the worst food in the world like that would be a a controversial yeah well my wife just asked this this one on social media which I think I'm on the I think I'm on the majority side um but um uh pineapple on pizza um that's a big I I think that I think that you're gonna go to hell if you put pineapple on pizza is just my thing I just don't think it belongs there.

SPEAKER_03 52:24

Um but but well but I think the other the other controversy I think in mine and I think I'm on the on the majority side of that too is I think anything anything more than medium rare cooked for a steak is too much.

SPEAKER_01 52:41

Yeah um if you uh if well done well done is for good and faithful servants in heaven not for steaks so there you go yeah I um I used to always say that fruits and vegetables didn't belong on pizza I was yeah I'm a pepperoni for meat lovers and that's that's it like I don't even do cheese yeah it's just or plain cheese that's just it's you know people asking what kind of pizza you want it's like anything with meat yeah put the meat on it yeah um okay what is what

Doesn't Matter A Hill of Beans

SPEAKER_01 53:11

is a hill that you're willing to die on that absolutely doesn't matter so just kind of like a a uh the things you're like I'm I'm sticking with this but in reality it it doesn't matter at all.

SPEAKER_03 53:26

Yeah um oh man I I think that if you live in a city that has a major sports team that should be your team and now I have others outside but I mean I I think if you live then that city should that that city's team should be your team your hometown team your your hometown team um and um that doesn't amount that doesn't matter a hill of beans yeah all right so uh last what last one we have here

No Meat Mondays

SPEAKER_03 54:07

what is your favorite aisle in the grocery store favorite aisle in the grocery store um I I mean I think it's gotta be the meat section there you go because I mean I'm I'm okay when when Meredith and I first got married um she she tried to institute this she had this idea of no meat mondays and the first time she did it I we just had a conversation that I I don't care what she cooks I I mean I don't care but we need meat if you're gonna eat there needs to be some meat involved and so yeah the meat aisles definitely my favorite all right so before we wrap up this episode

Pastor Brad's Last Word

SPEAKER_03 54:55

what is your last word so a message of encouragement that you want to speak over our listeners well I think to stay with the with the theme of the podcast is that our our works our righteousness our trying to be righteous in God's eyes uh will not get us there um we can we can rest in we can rest in the fact that if we believe that Jesus is the son of God and that God raised him from the dead that we are made righteous and we will be saved. And because I I I did grow up in in a church culture that put a lot of emphasis on behavior and and I think that's why it took me to my mid-twenties and early thirties before I had a a a right understanding of who God the Father is he is not he's not trying to modify our behavior so that we become righteous. He gave himself to us so that we can be righteous and we can rest in that yeah that's great.

SPEAKER_01 56:20

Well thank you for your time uh I think this is thank you for the invitation this was fun uh our first guest appearance uh this went really well so um hopefully it's gotta go up from here is all I gotta say well thank you again uh for all of our listeners I hope that um this has helped you learn from from you know the experience of Pastor Brad and you know what we've talked about help you move in that right direction for God to reveal what righteousness looks like in your life

Outro

SPEAKER_01 56:49

I hope you enjoyed this episode as we talked about and looked at the breastplate of righteousness.

SPEAKER_00 56:53

If you did enjoy this episode I would encourage you to check out our website here you can find all of our episodes send us a message or support the podcast. You can find all the links to the fan mail and support page in the episode description wherever you're listening. As

Special Announcement: New Support Page

SPEAKER_00 57:09

we launch this new website I want to make a special announcement about the support page. Even before making the very first episode I knew that I wanted this podcast to be listener supported. That way you never have to hear an ad or a sponsored segment it's just us digging into the word and searching for scripture together. Giving tears start at only $3 a month up to $10. And as I believe and trust God to sustain and grow this podcast into everything that he's calling it to be I would challenge you to ask God what your part will be. I'm not asking you for money. I'm asking you to ask God and to be obedient to what he calls you to do. I believe God has big plans for this podcast and has the potential to reach so many people around the world. I mean we already have a listener in Singapore all the way in Asia which I think is just awesome. I can't wait to see what God does and where he takes this podcast. I mean even more excited for you to be part of it. I would invite you to share this with those in your life and together we can search for scripture all around us in our everyday lives. God bless you guys thanks for listening