Max Turigliatto: Building A Speakeasy In Santa Cruz Artwork

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Owning The Coast

Max Turigliatto: Building A Speakeasy In Santa Cruz

July 14, 2026 • Santa Cruz Vibes Media, LLC • Season 2 • Episode 13

0:00 | 49:30

You’ve probably heard someone say, “Santa Cruz needed a place like that.” We finally get to unpack what “that” actually means with Max Turigliatto, the Santa Cruz native behind Alley Oop, a speakeasy-inspired cocktail lounge built for real date nights, live music, and a room that feels like you could be anywhere in the world while still being unmistakably local. From the moment you step into the alley and the door opens, Max is obsessed with the details that shape a night out: lighting, sound, temperature, pacing, and hospitality that feels warm instead of performative.

We also get practical about what it takes to open a small business in downtown Santa Cruz. Max shares how keeping a day job (he sells lumber at Big Creek) gave him the freedom to play the long game without squeezing the business for quick owner payouts. We talk investor alignment, turning down “bad money,” and why the best backers are the ones who believe in the vision, show up, and treat the project like a collaboration. If you’re building a restaurant, cocktail bar, or any local brand, this is a real-world look at risk, patience, and staying transparent when the stakes get high.

Then we zoom out to the bigger Santa Cruz story: housing mandates, rapid development, post-fire rebuilding frustration, and the fear of turning into Anywhere, USA. Max makes the case that local creators can shape what comes next by building spaces with integrity, fair pricing, and culture-first choices, like elevated mocktails, a tight shared-plates menu, and a serious live music program fueled by the Kumbha connection and a vintage baby grand piano.

If you care about Santa Cruz nightlife, cocktail culture, small business strategy, and the future of downtown, subscribe, share this with a friend who needs a better date-night spot, and leave us a review with your take: what should Santa Cruz become next?

Meet Max And His Roots

SPEAKER_05 0:02

Hello, hello, and welcome back to OTC Podcast. This is Brandy Jones with Keller Williams Drive to my right.

SPEAKER_02 0:10

Ryan Buffolt with Cross Country Mortgage. And Jerry Seagraves with Seagraves Insurance.

SPEAKER_05 0:14

So we've got a really popular guest today. Everybody is talking about him. It is such a pleasure to meet him, but I cannot say his last name. It is Max T from Aliu. Thank you for coming.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_05 0:26

So how do you say your last name?

SPEAKER_01 0:27

Derek Liato.

SPEAKER_05 0:28

Italian?

SPEAKER_01 0:29

Yes. I think he dropped a G in the Super Italian.

SPEAKER_05 0:33

So extra Italian.

SPEAKER_01 0:34

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 0:36

So are you Italian roots? Are you California roots? Are you Santa Cruz roots?

SPEAKER_01 0:40

Born and raised in Santa Cruz.

SPEAKER_05 0:42

Really?

SPEAKER_01 0:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 0:43

All these guys. I am like, what do we say? He's second generation, third generation, third generation. I'm zero generation. Okay. Californian. So what about Santa Cruz and the Italian roots? Kind of like makes you you.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

Good question. You know, it's all I ever know, right? I travel a lot, but but I was born and raised here. My my mom uh came out from the East Coast, a UCSE. Really? And yeah, she my my whole East Coast family who I I'm not close with, uh, you know, they're doctors and lawyers. And and uh my mom came out and and she became a hippie, you know, hair hair down to her ass and 12-string guitar and wow. And she never went back, and it actually took us out of the will. So yeah, that family disowned us.

SPEAKER_05 1:33

It's can you say that we just went really? We had actually tons of them here right before you. It's our, yeah, it's great. We're talking about wells and trucks and everything else.

SPEAKER_04 1:42

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:42

So I went to UCSC and I was like with the last year where if you were the two rules, you it was no grades, it was evaluations, and clothing was optional, but you had to wear shoes. So you got to see people plus shoes and no clothes. So yes, that's yes, yes, yes. So your mom's a hippie and now you're a restauranteer. What happens in between? Yeah, like hippie life as a kid. Are you on a commune or yeah,

Growing Up In A Bar

SPEAKER_05 2:06

right?

SPEAKER_01 2:06

Well, I I I grew up in a bar, so yeah. Really? Yeah, almost born in almost born on the bar. Really? No, so so my mom uh was doing bookkeeping for a guy named Roger Barnes, who is somewhat of a a legend in these parts. It was bocce cellar. Yes. Way back in the day, yeah. And so I was just running around a bar, you know, and literally in grade school and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that was I was seven. I'll I'll say this. I mean, I was the the dishwasher didn't show up one day. And so Roger threw me a $20 bill, and and I, you know, that was my first, that was my first payday. And it was like, oh, I just gotta wash some dishes and get cash. Yeah, I mean, that's that's kind of that was my introduction to to the industry, and I I think it man, I mean, I learned a lot. What schools do you go to? Westlake Elementary, Mission Hill, and Stanford's High.

SPEAKER_04 2:59

Right on.

SPEAKER_01 3:00

And then, you know, I did a little fifth year high school at Cabrillo.

SPEAKER_04 3:04

I think Brian did too.

SPEAKER_03 3:08

So did Brian.

SPEAKER_01 3:09

It's a thing, right? Right of passage. Yeah, I did a little, like, I did a little economics and and then just some like you know, philosophy type stuff. Things that I was like generally interested in. I I knew I wasn't, you know, going to a four-year, but I mean Cabrillo's got some amazing teachers, so yeah, took advantage of that.

SPEAKER_05 3:27

When I graduated from UCS yeah, I actually went back to Cabrillo because I majored in East Asian Studies, Chinese and Japanese. So wanting to be in the Chinese, I was like, wow, their program for Japanese was way better than anyway.

SPEAKER_01 3:38

Interesting.

SPEAKER_05 3:39

So when you you leave Cabrillo and you've been in the restaurant life, you and people that don't know the restaurant life, it teaches you about humanity and hard work. Yeah, and then the nightlife.

SPEAKER_01 3:50

I mean life lessons.

SPEAKER_05 3:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:52

But I was just I was just laughing with someone the other day. It's like I I feel like it should be a requirement that everybody does just a summer stint in a restaurant, yeah. Bussing, anything. It teaches you obviously humility and and just I mean everything. But you know, when you go out to a restaurant, you I mean you can tell who either hasn't been in the service industry or or is it not cognizant or aware of what it takes and uh or they shouldn't be there. Yeah,

Why Restaurant Work Changes You

SPEAKER_01 4:18

yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:18

That's the way to ask. Well, it's it's I think the thing about it too is when you you kind of like loop around on everything. I think there's a part of it where just being in service to somebody. I think I think that part of it sometimes we skip a beat there. Yeah. And if you're in service to somebody, then you have a deeper appreciation for people that are in service. 100%.

SPEAKER_02 4:42

Yeah, I think a lot of my business acumen came from working in a retail and restaurant. Like if I'm if I'm honest, like I didn't learn much in college at all. Not what I'm doing now. Like, I think a lot of it came from dealing with you know instable personalities that you meet in those environments and learning to navigate that with a smile on your face and getting the job done ultimately, right? Like getting them out and happy and not getting that bad review or or you know, still winning that tip at the end of the night. Yeah. I think that's something that a lot of kids and and young adults need to learn, is like you said, like a rite of passage for them. Yeah, street smart, sorry.

SPEAKER_05 5:20

Well, there was a so I worked at the Shadow Book to put myself through UCSC, and they have career servers, the Shadow Book. Yeah, and at the time they're like, You should have been here during the Coke days. We made we bought houses, man. Like now it's very regulated, Jerry. Your question usually is you you have you have to claim your tips, you have to, you have to, you know, they have to punch in, punch out, and you know, they scare the shit out of you. Like every restaurant fails within the first year, and if you make it to the fifth year, you're lucky. Like, how do you get the drive to come, you know, in between it sounds like you traveled, you enjoyed that experience, you knew what service

The Day Job That Funds Risk

SPEAKER_05 6:00

was like, and you took the risk.

SPEAKER_01 6:02

Yeah, yeah, it is risky, big time. Fortunately, I I have a day job.

SPEAKER_05 6:07

Oh, yeah.

unknown 6:08

Where do you sleep?

SPEAKER_01 6:09

Yeah, not a lot of sleep.

SPEAKER_05 6:11

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 6:11

What is your day job? I I actually sell lumber for Big Creek. Oh, no way. Yeah, it's so cool. Yeah, I only I started that about 10 years ago. Okay. I I literally I I walked up to the mill and ran into the owner, uh, one of the owners, and just hit it off. And I had heard good things about the family, which turned out all to be very true. Great people. And so but before that, I mean, I I was in service my entire life, and I I felt like I wanted to see what it was like to get a normal paycheck. And uh I never thought I'd be here or there uh that long, but yeah, it's just been 10 years. And but I'll say that you know, Big Creek has allowed me to do other restaurants and bars and not have that pressure of like paying myself. Right. Um that's interesting. Yeah, I I think the most successful people, whether it's restaurants or any businesses, is ones that can do so without yanking money out to pay yourself, right? I mean, you can't expect to to pay yourself off right away.

SPEAKER_02 7:10

Yeah, that's a hundred percent my story. I started tapping up in South Lake Tahoe, and I feel like the only reason it was a success is because I didn't need a paycheck. Yeah. I was the only, yeah, if if we're paying owners out of that, we wouldn't have made it. Nope.

SPEAKER_01 7:22

You know, yeah, and I I always tell my investors, like, I'm I'm not taking a dollar until you guys all get paid. Right. And and I'm fortunate to be able to do that, but I I think it is what attributes people to to being successful is not not so stressed about the money, right? Focus on the business and the how you operate, and the money comes.

SPEAKER_05 7:42

Well, there's a book from Ken Honda called Happy Money, and it's a Japanese philosophy of course, right? You know, it is you have unhappy money and happy money. And if you are so tightly wound on that money, it's unhappy. It's kind of like a partner, or you know, if you're squeezing something to death, so giving like for your tap room and for your restaurants, having that grace in there,

Investor Fit And Healthy Money

SPEAKER_05 8:05

then there then what's the next piece that motivated you to stay going? Now now it's not about the money, it's about what?

SPEAKER_01 8:11

Yeah, I mean, I I didn't I didn't need the money. I mean, I I do well at Big Creek and I I value that that job. And if anything, I might have you know put myself in risk of of it. And you know, I had that conversation with the company before I did it. I said, Look, I I love this job, I'm not going anywhere, but I also have to feed my creative side. Right.

SPEAKER_02 8:30

And that gives you that creative freedom. I think that's what you're getting at, right? Like you've you've got the ability to shape Alip into what you want instead of the pressures of getting the most people in there. Yeah. You can create a space that's like really cool and got really awesome.

SPEAKER_01 8:44

100%. Yeah. You know, and I've done other projects, but this one in particular was like I broke all my rules. Typically, I I don't spend more money on a build-out than it takes to earn back within three years. It's gonna be a lot longer on this one. Uh some of it was unforeseen, a lot of it was foreseen, but I just I just went for it. That's awesome. Like, you know, it's I've got an amazing group of investors, like people that you know invested because they they genuinely wanted it to open and and they go and they frequent it, and it's like, you know, they're passionate about it, like I am.

SPEAKER_02 9:18

Did these investors approach you or did you seek them out prior to coming up with this idea? No, I I seeked out most of it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:26

It's a skill set. I mean, I think I I've I've been with you and some business conferences where we spoke side by side and listen to you and others. And I think we can linger on there a little bit about I think when I hear you talk about it, you've already alluded to it. It's like it's not just an investor, it's curating that relationship, making sure that there's transparency and authenticity with the model so that you can get through the rigors of what opening a business is. Can you talk about that a little bit about vetting investors?

SPEAKER_01 9:55

Yeah, I mean, I I think, you know, good money and bad money, like you kind of mentioned, I I don't think I mean, I've turned down a good amount of money because it just it felt more like, you know, when the first question is like, well, when do I get payback and how much is it? Like that that's just already kind of a red flag. And you know, I think if your vision is strong and you you have it laid out correctly and you know, you've you've got a reputation, I I think you'll you can attract maybe some pervert preferred investors. And yeah, for me, I've always I I don't want it to feel like it's I got enough weight just to to keep the thing open and and running properly, right? And you don't want to be thinking about like you know, the investors, right? That the money, like I said earlier, like it comes if you if you do the thing right. And you want people to you want investors that are in there and enjoying it. You know, it just feels more collaborative instead of like, you know, this kind of yeah, like phone calls asking when and when they're gonna get paid.

SPEAKER_02 10:53

Yeah, and I've had that in the past. It's not fun. It's not fun.

SPEAKER_05 10:56

But you don't think like plain, I guess, or playing field where it's like sometimes investors they have a hierarchy and you are subject to their demands. Yes. And so finding somebody that can say, like, hey, we're in this together, we're we might have different roles. You do your role, I'll do my role. We are going to, you know, we're gonna run the books, we're gonna look at the books, we're gonna look at all this. But you don't become less than that.

SPEAKER_01 11:17

Yeah, I mean, I I think ultimately they should be investing in you because they believe in the vision and they want it to happen. It's I ideally it's not about making money. You know, they should get their fair share for the money, of course. You know, I think if you can beat the market at minimum, you know, I think that's a a fair thing to offer. But, you know, another thing I I've always said too is I I really try not to give away any equity unless you are on the floor with me. Smart. If you are if you're putting a sweat equity in, then I think you you deserve some some actual equity. But so far I've been able to do everything with interest only.

SPEAKER_05 11:51

So it's interesting you say that because we've had Cole Kirby on here and we'd have Chris Ellis on here, and they really have the idea that they want their employees to feel like they have equity in the business, and then that you've got their back.

SPEAKER_01 12:04

Yeah.

Designing An Elevated Guest Experience

SPEAKER_05 12:05

Is that how you run that?

SPEAKER_01 12:06

I'm on the floor.

SPEAKER_05 12:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:08

I mean, yeah, I think you saw me. I was I made it 39 days straight. We're we're open seven days a week. And I made I made it 39 days before I I almost died, just just like mentally, you know, because I'm also doing my day thing. Right. But I was working the door from open to close. We we have kind of this situation at L U where there's there's a door person outside as you walk in, and then there's what I call point, and the point and the door are communicating. So I was the point guy, so I'm on the inside. As soon as that door gets open and we have room for you, I'm actually seating you and just just working the floor. And it's you know, it's it's eyes on everybody, right?

SPEAKER_00 12:46

It's the rattest experience because you know, we just again we were talking with Ashley before you got in here that if you have like my kids have gone in, we've been in three or four, three times, I guess. But the the feeling of walking in that alley, dressing up a little bit more than you usually do in Santa Cruz, it's not mandatory because it is Santa Cruz, but it is encouraged that you kind of treat it, but just to kind of walk up and table for four and they kind of talk into their cuff a little bit, and then you wait right there, and it's like a cool little room with the neon sign, and you kind of wait and then the dark door opens, and you get the minute you walk in, you're escorted to your table. It's just elevated. It's elevated.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

It's something different. Yeah, you know, I like I said, I travel a lot, and one of the first things I try to do when I get to a new city is like find the hardest-to-find bar, you know, places like where the locals go. I've visited a lot of the top 50 best bars in the world, and yeah, when you go to, you know, London has like five of them. I mean, you go to these places and and they're great, you know, they are, but the the best ones I found are the ones that are not on any lists, right? And and I just every time I come home, I I'm always happy to be home. I love this town. But I'm always I just felt like we were missing we're missing something, you know, and I I think I never would have gone downtown until about three or four years ago when I started this. I was like, I'm seeing all this development happening, and I'm thinking, okay, you know, things are things are shifting a little bit. I I think I can throw my two cents in. And so, you know, I went for it. But yeah, I mean that's a whole nother discussion is like what's happening right now downtown.

Downtown Santa Cruz Growth Tensions

SPEAKER_01 14:20

A lot of mixed opinions on it, I think. For sure. Where do you think it's going? Well, we're growing, first of all. You know, what's what's actually happening, at least to my understanding, is that there's a huge mandate from the federal government to provide more housing, which I think we need. And I think that California in particular is being very much, you know, encouraged or kind of forced actually to build more housing. And we've been behind on that, for sure. It's not just red tape, but I think there's a a real sense of like anti-growth. And so unfortunately, what that's caused in what I'm seeing is like this rapid growth, yeah, and not super planned out. I think there's some people that are are trying, you know, to kind of spearhead it and lead the way, but I I do have concerns about it. Yeah, not a lot of continuity. You know, I have a lot of I mean, being born and raised here, I I got buddies that are generationally here, not you know, I'm just first generation, but they're all against it. You know, and I I try to tell them, you know, look, it's it's happening either way. I I do think that we have to grow as a city. My concerns would definitely be surrounding that not enough local people are getting involved, right? And that we could just become like a corporate kind of I mean, I think anthropology downtown is good for us. I I think we need some of that, but I also want to be careful about losing our kind of apple bees running into yeah, again, yeah. So I think for me, the alley was like again my stake in the yeah, it's my little like, yeah, I'm trying to steer something.

SPEAKER_02 15:57

Yeah, it's weird for me because I don't I don't really go downtown a lot. And as I see it as I drive by, I look at it, you know. I'm I grew up kind of midtown, and as a midtown local, I stay kind of like East Cliff side. And the downtown, I had to go there today to pick up something, and uh, you know, it's like an hour-round trip for me to get down there, right? Like, so I don't really go there, but I do see the development that's happening there, and it looks in a lot of ways for consumer behavior, it looks very attractive. You know, I see a lot of forent signs on those buildings, which is concerning to me. Like what happens to that, like if it goes another year without being rented out. But I do think that long term it's a it's a great plan to build up that downtown. And we see the new stadium coming in. There's a lot of stuff that we're waiting on that's in development that could change how that happens. But we are definitely in a transition right now.

SPEAKER_05 16:53

Well, that's how this podcast started. Being that I'm in real estate and I I am born and raised in California, and I literally got a full right to go to Berkeley. I drove down here and I said, This is where I'm going. There was something about here. And we are now we're no longer that generational community, we're an intake community. So that means over 50% of the people that move here are not from here. So when you're an intake community, what we wanted to do is one, we want to sort of have this nice door to get to know the history and the people here behind the scenes, but also like what we don't want to lose the history here. We don't want to lose what made these generations stay here. And so as we develop this and it's grown, I mean, we started this last year, so this is our second season. We want people to feel what the Santa Cruzians and Santa Cruz County from Watsonville to Ben Moment to Davenport to downtown. It's like a little country. We're like a little group.

SPEAKER_04 17:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 17:50

And we all need to work together in some sort of way, but it's really hard when you literally have people that don't know they're coming from urban areas because they're coming in for the Silicon Valley.

SPEAKER_02 18:00

Yeah. Well, it's an interesting point. I hate to like take us down a side road, but you know, we always had this need for housing here in town, but it does seem like a lot of the housing is going to people that aren't from this town, which is a big concern of mine, right? Like I feel like that's the one thing that's like kind of interesting about the housing we are putting in. Yeah, it's true.

SPEAKER_00 18:20

It's true, but it also brings up a bigger question is like, who are we to say in a lot of ways? I mean this, and I've said it before on this podcast. Who are we to say that so we landed on somebody? What we're talking about, Santa Cruz history is a very recent, small history. Very recent, very small. And so I think, and I get in a lot of arguments, especially from a perspective of us

Housing Mandates And Fire Rebuild Friction

SPEAKER_00 18:46

trying to level up the culture through vibes and talk about it. But I do think you have to kind of ask that question honestly to yourself. So wait a minute. We landed, we created something that our vision of Santa Cruz isn't what the Ohlone saw as Santa Cruz. And we landed on it, we created it, we got these ordinances that two-story buildings are all we're gonna do. Well, that's not what Santa Cruz was 200 years ago. That's not what it was 100 years ago, but in a small three, four-decade window, we decided this was Surf City, two-story buildings, and everybody else can't come here. And I just make the argument that that's some balls to say that. That's some balls to say, like, we're here, and that's going to be the end of that. We weren't here, we're here now. This is ours. I think we need to celebrate the culture in the macro. Like, we need to celebrate it all the way back to the indigenous people 12,000 years ago. There's a lot of things we can and can't control. And I don't think you ever what it does is it it forces you to level up your game as far as how are we going to participate in this culture right now? That's it. We can't architect culture, we can't control a lot of it. And I do think these housings, the investments in it, it is a transition. It's a new Santa Cruz. And I always bring this up in this, and I've talked about it on other ones. The best comparison I can always give is when I was born and raised here, but we raised our kids. We're in Denver, is Lodo Denver. Before Coors Field was built, it was just a shithole. And when they made that investment in that baseball stadium, there was an uproar about what lowered what that was. And now, 25, 35, 40 years later, there's kids that have been born and raised that that ballpark, looking out over the sunsets, the culture, the music, the comedy, the dueling pianos. I would argue that you had a homeless encampments, you had run-down buildings owned by outside, just sat on for 20 years, that the culture is four times what it was. Because you can't take the Colorado out of Denver unless you actually abdicate the entire state. And I make that same, I'm rambling right now, but what I'm saying is like I think Santa Cruz is Santa Cruz, and we have to kind of like honor who was here before and basically elevate it, make sure we make room for people. But but my friends and locals that are so against this housing, so against it, it's harder in the first end of this. But I think what you do is you'll see like that kind of like investments like Max's, investments like this place we're sitting in right now, investments like Chris Ellis's. Um, they do have that high tide, and it's gonna lift a lot of boats. And I mean that culturally, I think.

SPEAKER_05 21:26

I think you've said it beautifully. I don't think you're rambling because I think the argument can go on and on and on. And I think you hit every point that somebody's already probably said to you that we are here now. What can we do now? What's our radical responsibility of being a human? And it goes back to service, family. We're here, we live in a county, and I've said this multiple times, where 35% of it is some sort of nature. It's beaches, it's mountains, it's something that that you can't take away. You just really can't.

SPEAKER_02 21:51

And I think like the counterpoint to your point, if not counterpoint, but to agree with you is that people like Max are what brings the Still the unique character to this town, right? So you could do like SoCal, and now you have, you know, Applebee's and a BJs and Walmart and all this stuff. We're not doing that. We're having creators create these insane creative spaces. I think I was speaking from confusion when I made that reference. It's like you hear this political dissonance from a state and local level about housing. And yet then we have this housing come up. And it's a very interesting, you know, I guess, package delivered to people. Like I just, you know, it it kind of goes like if you've ever heard the narrative like, oh yeah, you try to remodel your house here, it takes three years, and then boom, that three-story building is up. And that is the thing that bought it.

SPEAKER_05 22:48

Here's the fire. The fire had over 976 burnt homes.

SPEAKER_02 22:51

And to this day, there's maybe 50 that are that's where my that's where the rub is. That's where the rub is for me.

SPEAKER_05 22:58

So a lot of people have to try to sell their land. They had a foreclosure. Something happened that was so tragic, yet you see it the same flip time the municipalities have to provide because they're right now the strongest arm is the state management for more housing. Well, if we could take 976 houses that had people back in and put them back out into the rural areas, and I think that's the heartbreaking piece because when as a realtor, going through that is probably the saddest days in my life outside of my own experiences. The days where that the sky was so orange you could not breathe. And then because I did really well during the short sale, you know, like consumer just short sales in a sense when I did really well. I was running like 50 sales at a time so people could avoid foreclosure, and that had a sad story. But this was a little bit of hope. You don't have to wait 10 years to get off your credit. This was a bad loan, you're not a bad person. And here these people are we're not bad people. We might have been underinsured. We have the money, and we we now, and I'm not picking on Santa Cruz County per se, but not we can't not only build what we had before, but we have to do all this engineering that our insurance doesn't cover. And so you've got this total weeping sadness on one side, and then you have this other side where you get demanding, well, you better fucking rent that then. If you're gonna, if you're gonna build this so fast and not care about it, you better rent that. And that's where Brian's like, who are we to say? Yeah, there's there's so many moving pieces in this that when you when you get myopic, it can be detrimental to you.

SPEAKER_02 24:28

Maybe that is the transitionary phase that Santa Cruz is going through that Brian speaks to, right? Like we have this this like weird uh different rule system that's happening all at the same time because there is a push for this change and modernization, right?

SPEAKER_00 24:43

And I'll circle it back to Max here because here's the thing I've known you for a couple years loosely, not like we're not best friends or anything, but I know you from a business standpoint is you're a smart guy, you bring smart people together, you're choosing that spot. You're choosing, you're not thinking in in quarters, you're thinking in decades and years with a business like that. Clearly, you land on the optimistic side.

SPEAKER_01 25:05

For sure.

SPEAKER_00 25:06

Why? Why?

Community Support And A Better Night Out

SPEAKER_01 25:08

You know, long-term thinking. I actually just got off a Zoom call this morning with the owners of Original Joe's. No one in San Francisco. I had two folks that were part of that organization come into the alley oop and they introduced themselves and just had a fascinating talk with them. And I said, I'd love to pick your brain, because those guys are a perfect example of they're an institution. They're not like a absolute, it's not this, they've just done such an incredible job of like expanding while still maintaining their integrity. Yes, and it just feels neighborly and it's warm. Yes. And so I picked their brain. I was like an hour and a half. It was so nice of them to to allow me that time. That's just to pick their brain on on how they set up their their culture structure and just everything. But you know, I think it all circles back to like I'm very appreciative of all of you guys doing doing this exact thing, vibes. It's like I think if Santa Cruz has one thing that we can all hopefully get behind, and maybe maybe we should do more of it, is being supportive of each other. I I think like that's something that does make us unique. We're a big town, but we're actually pretty small. Very and I think that people want to support people that they know. And that's to be honest, that's why I'm here now. Like, I'm an open book. I I I talk to people, I tell people nothing eyed, you know.

SPEAKER_05 26:29

And I want to do a little shout out for Ryan. Ryan, you are one of the biggest supporters of people in the industry. Like, you support all the advanced housing foundation, you support a lot of different brokerages, you support like you put time and energy into making sure like you'll take a brokerage out on the Chardonnay. Like, you definitely get back, and I think it's understated.

SPEAKER_03 26:48

Well, thank you. It's cool to see Santa Cruz. You know, back in the day when Santa Cruz growing up here, and you know, I worked at Ghostgate, it was, hey Valley, what do you want? Now it's actually like if people are contributing to the community, it's like, hey, no, you're here. I'm trying to help our community. Wherever you're from, you're doing the best job you can. Let's support each other. Yeah, people see that.

SPEAKER_01 27:08

I don't believe in competition. You know, I I want more, you know, more people doing things. And yeah, I'm I'm really hoping like the LU, for example, promotes it or sparks some people to jump in.

SPEAKER_00 27:23

I'll give you an example because we've talked about this too, and it's like I do love downtown. Born and raised here, it's first date place, all of these things, and I get the complaints, but I think like every other advice I give is before you complain about it, step into it. You know, because a lot of people we have a tendency, not only it's in this culture, but in this town in particular, where we want to kind of have beef about something that we've really not stepped into. Stacy and I'll go down there and we might start an afternoon with a movie. We'll wander into Abbott Square, get a drink there. They do a great job, you know, at you they do a great job at Front Street, right? I mean, and and then we might, you know, wander down and get a burger with Donnie over at Food Talk and Ulterior, and then we end up at his place, you know, as far as and there's a mixture down there. All of it's not just a drunk walk. All of these are highly elevated mock tails. All of these, the thing about a lot of where these businesses are executing something that if you just want that sort of Santa Cruz experience and you do want to just basically maybe take an edible and have some mock tails, it's like that's all I've had at his place is mocktails because I haven't been drinking alcohol, but I'm not missing any experience with my kids.

SPEAKER_05 28:30

That's interesting. So I have yeah, I it's important. Don't drink. And so I was like, Oh, I don't really want to be. So it's nice to be like, oh, for those people that don't drink, it's nice, like, oh, I think of Allib and have the same experience. And I don't have to have, you know, the other experience that maybe other people want to do.

SPEAKER_00 28:47

The presentation of the mocktails when you're sitting at a table, not that this matters, but it's it's there's as much love and care that goes into that as it is so when they bring the four drinks, five drinks, or two drinks, you're part of the scene, you know, and you're doing your own experience. But the the bartenders are putting as much into a Roy Rogers, and it's not just squirt squirt, there's your Roy Rogers. It's an elevated drink, even in that capacity. And I think this is a good segue for you to kind of, because I want to be you know cognizant of time, is you know, I know how much of a hall that place was.

The Alley Oop Concept And Buildout

SPEAKER_00 29:20

I know how many different like adversities you went through. So, in your best kind of like cliff notes version, walk us through the concept of Valley Oop and the building of it and the attention to detail a little bit, some of the things that were important to you.

SPEAKER_01 29:33

Yeah, so I was a drummer growing up, and that's actually how I used to make money. I was started at Bachi Cellar when I was about 11 years old. The drummer would let me sit in on the bands there, and I ended up playing in a cover band um with with like 40 and 50 year olds. And so I did the jazz camp at Kumba, and I've always loved that place. And so there was actually a moment in time where uh David Kinch was going to take Ali Oop and call it the Green Room, and they were kind of working together with Kumbha. It was gonna be sort of like a you know, green room. I mean, the name is great, right? It's just kind of backstage to the to the kumbha. Anyways, it ended up falling through, which I was I was bummed about. I was all you know, I was very excited about it. And the the president at the time of Kumba and I are good friends, and he he kind of mentioned, he says, You're kind of looking, and what do you think about you know the old poet in patriot space? And I said, Well, you know, it needs a lot of work. A lot of work. And so before I even spoke with the landlord, he actually directed me towards he said, Kumba's got to approve you. I said, Well, they it sounds like they do, and we we met, and you know, I knew them a little bit, and and so then I spoke with the landlord and really started looking at what needed to be done, and it was it was substantial. And I I said, You you don't want me here, you know. And I think that's probably why Kinch backed out. He's he's a lot smarter than me. Probably saw this, this was a crazy venture. But there was something about it being next to them. I love the idea of being not right on Pacific Avenue, being said back down this little alley, which the alley needed a lot of love, still needs love, you know, or we're trying to clean it up. But it just felt like the right move. I felt like we needed an adult bar, a date night spot. I almost just called it date night. I don't know how I ended up on LU, but it felt right. And so, you know, it's I mean, I get the best compliments, which are the first one is people walk in, they say, Wow, we really needed this in this town. Like, thank you. You know, you needed that. And it's like the first because I was nervous building missing out. I'm like, I don't know, Santa Cruz is ready for this, like it is a little elevated. I'm not trying to be fancy or anything. It's just like, yeah, we want people to dress up. And and then the second thing people say is like, I really feel like I could be anywhere in the world. That's how that's I uh I took out all the windows, like we control everything, like the the temperature, the the lighting, the sound. And so it was important to me to like really cultivate what I wanted to see. And yeah, I guess the inspiration was just traveling. And I got a lot of inspiration from like I love like a New York basement bar, Chicago speakeasy, I love New Orleans, you know, and but I still wanted to make it Santa Cruz. And so that was that was kind of a tough thing, and the project has evolved obviously from from start to finish, but but it worked. And you know, it I I will tell you when it took me three years to open that. A lot of it was permitting, a lot of it was build out. And I I think that's one thing that you know I I hope will change in time. I think that it's pretty well established and known that Santa Cruz is not the best place for small businesses to uh to thrive.

SPEAKER_03 32:56

That's just burning money. And you have months going by, and you're making a payment, and you're just sitting there being like, why can't I open and it's just burning money?

SPEAKER_01 33:04

And this this is why I told my landlord, don't let's not do this. And he said, Well, what would it take? And I said, A lot of money, man, and patience and and rent break, and and you know, I can only do so much to your building, and if I can't take it with me, it's it's a tough one, you know, it's a tough sale. And he totally worked with me. That's amazing. Yeah, the it's like yeah, shout out to the the listener family. They own multiple properties around town, but best landlords I've ever had. Yeah, just it's really like met me, you know, not halfway, but put a lot of money in. And they they felt like it was. I think Kumba, they have a soft spot for Kumba, they're very supportive of that organization, and they really wanted somebody next door that was going to like be in harmony with that business model.

SPEAKER_00 33:49

And you've done a rad job because even when you kind of go to his app, it kind of there's like a little bit of a push to get your Kumba annual membership, which is very affordable. Yeah, yeah. But it kind of ties you into the alley oop as far as like early announcements, things like that. I don't have the top of my head, but something like that.

SPEAKER_01 34:04

We're doing some collaborations, definitely. Yeah, I think that whole you know what I see happening on Cedar Street, kind of that whole area is kind of the romantic side of downtown. Yeah, Redwood. Redwood Records, Tyler and Rudy are awesome. Like I just feel, you know, Swath is coming in, the old Cafe Pergs. I love those girls. Alexis and Dee Dee Dee are just awesome, and I'm I'm excited. I I don't I don't bug them and be like, when are you opening? Because I I know what it takes. I used to get asked probably 12 times a day, like, when are you opening? But I know they're working on it, and I'm so excited for them. Like it's it's gonna be an amazing spot. But yeah, I just I I'm really wanting and hoping that that side of downtown becomes I don't know how romantic, like just date night.

SPEAKER_03 34:46

Yeah, are you overseeing everything? Drinks, food, everything is that in your creation?

SPEAKER_01 34:51

I am, I am, but you know, I've definitely looked for a lot of help on on things. I've got an amazing team. You know, I I always try to start with a vision and I I shoot for the stars and and hopefully end up somewhere in between, right? But I've definitely you know paid people for consulting. I will give a huge shout out to Patrick from Front and Cooper. You know, I started with a kind of a vision of how the cocktails would look, and all of them needed just like something. Yeah, right. And that guy, just a huge talent and just a he's an artist person, total artist, and and just an awesome guy. You know, it's so it's so great to work with people that are just cool, yeah, not

Cocktails To Order And Press Wins

SPEAKER_01 35:33

difficult.

SPEAKER_05 35:33

I'm gonna ask you a question for you. What are you what should we order when we go?

SPEAKER_01 35:38

You know, they're they're all my children, right? Yeah, it's so funny. We're coming up on four months, and you know, I want to start putting some new ones in, and I'm I'm looking at the sales and I'm like, they're all like very popular. Every time I think I'm gonna kill one, it like all of a sudden gets super popular. The green room is by far our most popular, though, almost double anyone else. So I that was a little ode to Kim, which was the green room name. And yeah, it's it's so I focus on a lot of cognac and oudovies and and champagne, and I love grape. I mean, I love the idea of grapes. And so Uudade is essentially cognac before it's aged. It's it's that that base spirit of grape. And so we infuse it with cucumber, and then we add it's called Genope, it's kind of like a chartreuse. It's putting a little cucumber ribbon in there, some mint, lime. I'd almost say it's like our margarita kind of elevated margarita.

SPEAKER_05 36:37

Sounds delicious.

SPEAKER_01 36:38

It is, yeah. Some soda in it, it's just very bubbly. Yeah, I don't know. I'm I'm proud of all of them. That I will say the other one that really was a challenge was I this town loves mascal. And so I knew I needed to get something with mascale on it, but I wanted to mix it with cognac. The two just don't mix. Like they are nasty.

SPEAKER_02 36:58

It's just they're just obviously the smokiness that the mascala that doesn't mix in the cognac.

SPEAKER_01 37:03

Yeah, I don't know. It just every I tried everything to try to figure it out, and it was like they just weren't mixing. Like it's like oil and water, you know. And then we found with with Patrick's help too, that we found this French like ginger liqueur. And I think like the spice of the ginger and like the sweetness, it it totally worked.

SPEAKER_05 37:25

And what's that one called?

SPEAKER_01 37:26

That one's called Rim Shop. And that's actually the one that made it in the New York Times. No way. Yeah, we we yeah, I woke up the day before our two month anniversary and we got in that little 36 hours in Santa Cruz thing, which is awesome. Yeah, like huge. It's just a little blurb, but it's like so cool. Exactly. Yeah, it's so cool.

SPEAKER_05 37:47

That's way cool. Because that's not wasn't on your timeline. That wasn't your two.

SPEAKER_01 37:53

No, that was not on the bingo card ever. So yeah, yeah, gotten a lot of a lot of awesome press.

SPEAKER_00 38:03

And and on your birthday, on your birthday if you go in there.

SPEAKER_01 38:08

Yes, we do caviar bumps. So we we have uh you get a caviar bump. We have a $10 caviar bump, and one of my servers, uh Delaney, who I love, she was you know, like week two or something or three, and and she goes, Oh, it's you know, it's her birthday, she just ordered caviar bumps. Like, you think we should just you know give this one on the house? And I'm I was like, we should give all of them on the house if it's their birthday. And then it just became like, okay, we give caviar bumps for your birthday. And so on the menu, if if you're within like a week, I think we put seven days, you get caviar bumps.

SPEAKER_05 38:42

You have people come back like it doesn't have to be on your yeah, it's the week of it, and you know, sometimes reflecting.

SPEAKER_00 38:48

It's so memorable. My daughter's girlfriend was in a few weeks ago, and it was the day before, but it's just it's that singular moment. It's it's it's a special moment. And she also got her birthday song sung by that woman from the 1920s. I can't think of her name. Yeah, Heidi.

SPEAKER_01 39:02

Heidi Evelyn, she's been in so we're really developing a music

Live Music Dreams And The Perfect Piano

SPEAKER_01 39:06

program. Yeah, Heidi actually reached out to me. She's from Los Gatos, and she is like, I mean, you sorry. Like, I don't know how to explain.

SPEAKER_00 39:14

I think the way I'm gonna describe it, and I mean this with all due respect, is like if you're not looking at her, you're just having your drink, and it's a speakeasy feel, it's dark and perfect in there, it's as if you turned on a radio in 1928 and you you heard that voice singing to you in that sort of style. It's it's it's surreal. I'm not overblowing it because when you're in that moment, and if you're and I mean I mean that not not looking at her, but if you're just in that singular moment with a drink in that glass and you hear that voice, it's a hundred years ago.

SPEAKER_05 39:45

I had a friend that went, she was having a stressful day, piano player. Yeah, she goes, My husband knows the piano player, so it might have been her. And she goes, I wasn't sobbing, but just tears. Her music was so beautiful that just tears came down like it is, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:00

Yeah, that's her game, right? That's her style.

SPEAKER_01 40:02

Yeah, yeah. I mean, she does some different things, but she has a definitely affinity for like 20s, uh, New Orleans era. It's her and a piano player, she's a singer, right? Okay, but yeah, the duo is just like talk about your ambitions for the music. Right now we're doing three nights a week. I'd like to expand that, but you know, I I knew I wanted a piano in there, just especially with Kumba being so close, and I knew I might get lucky and have some like really famous people come over.

SPEAKER_05 40:27

I was just how cool that is advertiser, like the lucky people that well, we're working on that.

SPEAKER_01 40:34

Um yeah, I'm I'm being uh gentle on that. But you know, I started throwing some some like gift cards at the green room at at Kumba just to like get them over, and it's it's working. So yeah, we're getting it closer and closer. Emmett Cohen was just in town, and he's like just an incredible piano player. I mean, he's killing it right now, he's a young guy. And he almost made it in. His whole band made it in. So we were, you know, we were drinking with the band and having a great time. And a lot of musicians have been coming in because after their show, they don't want to just go back to somewhere.

SPEAKER_00 41:06

I think you'll walk, I think you'll walk into it. Time and place, it'll you'll walk into it. I know my daughter was in Vegas and um had seen a show, seen, saw Gaga. They were down either on Fremont Street at a speakeasy, and Gaga walked in and did like an hour in the speakeasy. And it just does happen, but yeah, it's gotta be you've got to be time and place.

SPEAKER_01 41:23

Yeah, you know, it's uh so I I asked the guy who tunes the piano at at Coomba, which is it's like a quarter, no, it's probably a $300,000 uh piano. Um but this guy, Jeff Potter, owned Santa Cruz Piano and kind of local piano wizard. And I told him like a couple years ago, I said, I'm gonna need a good piano, you know, but I don't want it to be necessarily new, I want it to like fit the space. So I went up and saw him and he's like, I got it. You know, so I brought a piano player because I don't play piano. He he showed me like three or four different pianos, and you know, one of them was like a 1920 or a 2024 Yamaha, which is a great piano, but it was very bright and just like new. And then he hopped on a 1952 baby grand Baldwin, and it just instantly, I was like, wow, holy shit, this is this is it. You know, it's original strings, like real ivory and ebony keys. It just it just yeah, it's got the feeling. Just awesome. He's tuned our piano about that.

SPEAKER_00 42:18

Oh, you know, just that's that's the all in Max I'm talking about. That's the yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:24

I went for it. And so and so one of my one of my first investors actually that was I I told her I'm I found the piano and she ended up uh buying it for us. She gifted that one. Wow. And so I tattooed her name on the side of the piano. That's weak. And yeah, she saw it the other day, and it was it was a good moment. Um, but that's how Heidi Evelyn actually found it. She saw a picture of the New York Times on their social media and it said Heidi on the side, and she's like, I have to play here. That's amazing. Different Heidi, but you know, it's spelled the same. And and then yeah, it just worked out.

SPEAKER_00 42:55

And the other thing too that I think is notable when we've been down there, and I I hope you can correct me, but seven days a week. Seven damn days a fucking week. Yeah, and that's that's eight nine days out once, but that's a that's a huge that's a huge commitment in this town to open that up seven days a week, but it's also it gives you that, you know, we've been three or four times because we know that. And so you know it's gonna be there. Five o'clock it opens. Five to twelve. Five to twelve. We should go do if you we I shouldn't ask you this on, but we should maybe possibly do

Events Food Pricing And The Long Game

SPEAKER_00 43:24

like in that back room, like a remote from like four to five one day. Just bring put it in the suitcase again and go down there and do that back room. I think that'd be a lot of fun. Yeah, the back room's been awesome.

SPEAKER_01 43:32

Um, Ashley, who was a stand is is gonna do her birthday back there. We're doing a lot of like birthday buy-outs. Yeah, I call it the leopard lounge. That's amazing. But yeah, and then I I just booked some, I think we're up to five weddings. So we're doing a rehearsal dinner, but then you can also rent out the whole place for like after party.

SPEAKER_00 43:48

And we kind of blew by it a little bit, but I think before we get off is circle us through because it's on par with the drinks, is the food. Yeah. The food just kind of circle through a little bit of the menu because there's a really kind of I think you've So as simple as what you might want burger and fries, but then it elevates.

SPEAKER_01 44:03

Yeah, so so I mentioned bocce to Roger Barnes, who owned it. He's actually my chef. That's awesome. At uh I I won't reveal his age, but he's older and he uh I mean full circle moment for us. You know, I I called him when opening this and I said, Raj, I need you. You know, because I'm not a chef. I used to you know cook for him, but it's not my specialty. And I know what I want and I have the vision and I knew he could do it, and so he he fucking did it, man, and exceeded my expectations. And I you know, I told him, I said, Look, we're we're cocktail lounge first. I don't want to even be thought of as a restaurant, to be honest. I don't want to be a bar either, I want to be like a cocktail lounge, and so just compliment you know the drinks, and and he totally did. And you know, we weren't gonna put a burger on at all. I kind of feel like everyone's got one, and and then he convinced me, he's like, I gotta have one. Yeah, and so I said though, I said, I want it to be so standard. Like, don't do anything fancy, I don't want like truffle butter on it, just make it like a damn good burger. And he killed it. He totally it totally is like it's our second most popular thing behind just the French fries. The fries are just like by far, people disorder the fries. Yeah, I'm sick. I hunted down like a skinny fry. Every all the vendors and suppliers they want to sell you this classic like quarter-inch McDonald's fry. Just like, nope, I want it skinny. And Roger made a vermouth aioli, which is amazing.

SPEAKER_05 45:29

Okay, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:31

And so I try to make everything like very shared plates type style sharing, you know, and do like a shrimp cocktail, it's fun.

SPEAKER_00 45:39

Yeah, and I do have to throw in food all the way till midnight.

SPEAKER_01 45:42

No, right now we're at 10, which is an hour later than most places. Yeah, I'm working on it. I'm working on it. I told Rao, like, leave me one guy, even if it's just damn French fries and beignets. You know, I I really do want to try to extend that to midnight. People ask, I know it would go well, but my team is working so hard right now. Like, you come in, I mean it's a full shift, like five to twelve, you're coming in early. Like reservations required? No reservations. Yeah. I I tried it and it did not go well. Uh-huh. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:16

Pretty much a table anytime, or no, you get packed.

SPEAKER_00 46:18

No, we're waiting. It gets packed.

SPEAKER_01 46:21

It gets packed. We're very good about communicating. Like, what I should say, we do our best. The first couple months were hard. It was hardcore. I mean, we were we were two plus hour wait. And I felt terrible about that, but we only have 50 seats, you know. Yeah. And then I think people started picking up on like, okay, weekends are a little harder. Let's go during the week. So the weekends were down to like under an hour, and the weekdays are were getting filled up, which is nice.

SPEAKER_05 46:44

I always really nice because most restaurants have that little bit.

SPEAKER_00 46:48

It's consistent. But it's balancing out. I know when we first went, we went like a month and a half later, we're like, we'll just go like Sunday at five. We walk in, there's a ton of people like, yeah. Everybody's figuring everybody's figuring out their groove a little bit. Yeah. But one thing I have to note, because you know, I think you've done another fair job, which is a long view of what you're doing and a commitment to the locals, is you're gonna spend a lot more on drinks and food at other places. You've done the pricing in there when we got our first bill was like it's very, very affordable for the experience and what you're doing. So you've priced it in a spot where it feels like it's gonna be a lot more when you get that bill and you're happy to pay it because of the experience. But I think you've priced it super fair.

SPEAKER_01 47:26

I've had a lot of people tell me like you're too low, and I I just feel like you know, it's not everyone else's fault I spent over a million dollars on the bill out, right? Which I I think is a mistake with a lot of owners, you know. They try to foot the bill to the customer, and you know, yeah, it might take me longer to pay everyone off and and get my money back, but I I just think longevity is important.

SPEAKER_05 47:49

I yeah, well, that's a great way to be committed to the long term. Yeah, you know, like you really are in it long term and you clean it with the actions of the pricing.

SPEAKER_01 47:56

Yeah, I don't I don't want it to be a once or twice a year spot. I I I like you in there, you know, once a month at minimum, and and it but it should also feel special, like it's you know, I mean we have a lot of regulars that are forming, which is awesome, but I also am getting a lot of those, like, you know, it's the date-night spot for the parents to get the babysitter once a week. And it's like, okay, they've they've made that, and it's that feels

Where To Find Alley Oop

SPEAKER_01 48:17

good to me.

SPEAKER_05 48:17

So tell everybody where they can find you, your Instagram, Facebook, website.

SPEAKER_01 48:21

Yeah, jazzallelounge.com also has our booking calendar for for music, which is great. Instagram is the Alley Oop. That's about it. Um, God, God's it. Godnet. We uh we just went viral on TikTok. Somebody, I don't know who posted it, and it's got like over 20,000 views. And yeah, kind of. There was after that happened, there was like a few weekends of just like you know, like the just 21-year-old ladies who, you know, they're they're great, and I'm I appreciate it, but they were coming in for like the selfies, and and then they were they were in and out, which okay, great. But you know, I just I yeah, TikTok's probably not our favorite place. That's not the long game.