With All Your Mind
A conversation exploring mental health and the role that faith plays in that journey.
Join Dr. Mark McNear, Pastor Kirk Rupprecht, and host Walter F. Rodriguez as they dive into this space of mental health and faith.
With All Your Mind
Attachment
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With All Your Mind is back. We are excited to kick of another season of the podcast. Join Walter, Mark & Kirk in discussing this idea of attachment, what role it plays in our mental health journey.
Hope this conversation is helpful.
Welcome to the With All Your Mind Podcast. This podcast exists as a resource and a part of the ministry at Commonplace Church or Mental Health Ministry. If you'd like to learn more about the church or about the ministry itself, visit up commonplacechurch.org.
SPEAKER_00Hope you enjoyed this conversation. Hello, and welcome back to With All Your Mind. I'm Walter F. Rodriguez, and with me are my co-hosts, Dr. Mark McNear and Pastor Kirk Ruprecht. Welcome back. Hello.
SPEAKER_03Welcome. Welcome back.
SPEAKER_00That's crazy. I think that's probably the most appropriate statement to make because uh it's been a while. It's been a little bit. It's been some time. We don't ever define it, you just say some. It's been some time since we've had the opportunity to do that. Do you still say it's been a minute? I say it. Yeah. I say it. I often add the hot, the hot minute descriptor. I never really Is there a cold minute? Yeah, I don't know what it actually means when you add it on there, but I do it sometimes. It's for warmth. Yes. But yeah, it's been a while since we've gotten to get together to record and to spend this time together as friends. Um, as those who care deeply about the world of mental health and care deeply about the people who take their time out to listen to this podcast. So we're grateful for you that you're here. Um, and we hope that maybe you find it beneficial. Or maybe you're just you want to hear a train wreck and you're like, Man, let me tune into this week's train wreck. Um, but welcome all audiences. Exactly. Whatever the reason is that draws you to us, um, it's been too long. We've missed you guys. Um, so actually, before we jump into any of the topics for today, maybe it would be good to just catch up, catch up on where we are in life and catch up with all of you guys too. So, gents, uh, let's catch up. What has been happening since we last recorded an episode which was uh 1940? I was gonna say early 2000s.
SPEAKER_01Well, we we took off for the summer. Yeah, and I can speak for myself. I was in Wyoming for a couple weeks. I have been continuing to work on the other podcast, and so that's been going well.
SPEAKER_00And can we plug it? Sure. Okay, yeah. I was like, I think you're allowed to say the name. Yeah, we're not it's not like NDA or anything like that. The the podcast that will not be named, right? What's your what's your other podcast, Mark?
SPEAKER_01So my other podcast is Trauma Meets Recovery Podcast. Check it out. And so that's been exciting, and Debbie and I had a wonderful summer together. That's awesome. So it was nice and it seemed like it went fast, didn't it?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Too fast.
SPEAKER_02Really fast.
SPEAKER_01Ugh.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I didn't feel like it went fast. I was glad.
SPEAKER_01You know, I was looking at Kirk's face and he and he's like, I wanted to agree. Yeah, it was almost like his face was telling me, like, no, you're wrong.
SPEAKER_02No, it was uh it felt uh extra extra this year. Felt a little extra. Yeah. Um, let's see. For me, I did end up getting into the World Cup, which was strange. I didn't expect that to be my uh Did you fit inside the World Cup?
SPEAKER_01You were attempted to or you were part of it or you were watching it?
SPEAKER_02No, well, I think I don't know. I mean, if you're are you part of it by watching it, I'm not sure. Like you could put it in, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I was involved somehow.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, by tuning in. I know several people that are coaches of the New Jersey Jets, uh the New York Jets, um, just because they stand up and they they call plays and they yell at the players. Yeah, that's so that probably fit into that.
SPEAKER_02I was like the Ted Lasso. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01It was it was an exciting World Cup. Very uh unpredictable. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. I was not expecting to get in like to like it, and I did. Yeah, good. Wow. So another four years I'll I'll watch it again, I guess. Um, but yeah, what else? Uh it was a it was a summer for me of like recovery, like like just really I felt a little burned out going into the summer. So spent some time uh just trying to rest and uh prepare for uh a change in our um in our home as my my son has uh just recently gone to college and that was a big uh shift and a very different uh we we look very different. Yeah, yeah. Um there's there's a lot of females currently in the house, even even the dog. Um so but it's good, you know, it's just uh we miss him, but he's doing the right thing.
SPEAKER_01So what would be three words you would use to describe it?
SPEAKER_02The summer or or him leaving? Him leaving. Oh, three words is all I get. I'll give you four. Uh I'll give you four. Uh exciting. Um let's see. Exciting as well, but uh hard uh yeah, uh challenging. Um and it's it's sad, I'm not gonna lie. Yeah. So I guess all those bittersweet probably would have been just two words that would have worked well. No, he gave you four, so I think you're still within. I think he threw me off with three. I was like three. Um yeah, it's uh it's just a chapter, you know, we've talked about this even in the podcast, like just different chapters and seasons, and um yeah, so it's been a a different one for for us. Yeah, it's it's a good one, right? But it's also, you know, it's we are we hold a lot of those things intention. Yeah. That's kind of how we exist. We try to exist as humans.
SPEAKER_00It's wise that you are acknowledging that you're holding things in tension. I think we often do. Yeah. How about you? I I'm still in the season of burnout. I feel like uh the summer was just kind of careening downhill. Um, not in the in the actual downhill sense, but in the the speed of everything. It was a lot to do. Uh everything has been just tight deadlines, crazy, crazy hours of work. So um, for a big chunk of the summer, I was like pulling 70, 80 hours a week and it was draining. So I did feel like it went really quickly, but I felt every minute of that, at least my body did. So um trying to move now into a season of recovery a little bit and uh just trying to be wiser in allocating my time. I think I've always taken on a lot. And now recently with uh Ashley and with Maddie and those responsibilities that come with that, I want to have the time to really be present there. Um, and that comes with cutting back on other things, and it's hard for me because I am very much a people pleaser and I want to try to do all of the things that people expect me to do, but yeah, it's it's just unsustainable. So I'm just trying to take a look at things and figure out where I can cut back and just kind of reinvest things in in other ways, some of that energy. So learning, um yeah, and uh also scared at the cost of college. $75,000 a year. We're looking at one of the schools, it's that's crazy.
SPEAKER_02It's insane. That's insane. Yep. I don't know. It's a whole I don't know how to podcast we can unpack.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, if you guys listening have any tips on how to pay for college, please let us know.
SPEAKER_02I've looked into selling body parts and things like that, you know, whatever I can.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. When I start mowing a lot of lawns, I don't even so yeah, but it's uh it's good to be back with everybody, good to catch up a little bit. Oh man, my voice is going away. I think I'm getting too emotional. You guys reunited. No, it's a 75,000. Oh, yeah. That'll do it. I gotcha. That'll choke me up. For sure. Oh man, is dining and dashing a thing for study and run? I don't know. Just show up for classes. You belong here? I don't know. But um, yeah, so we're gonna talk about a topic that's we're gonna be exploring it over the next few weeks. And um, we've touched on this in other um in other episodes that we've done before, but uh the idea is we're gonna talk about attachment of being attached, of clinging. So you might be wondering, how does being attached clinging, how does that connect to our mental health journeys? And well, it's a good question. Um, we're gonna start with this idea of attachment. Like I mentioned, we've spoken about it throughout the uh podcast, but we want to take the time to really unpack uh what it is, and it's this thing called attachment theory. Um, so we'll spend a few weeks looking at it and um the different individual styles that are attached to uh to this theory. Attachment, yeah, attachment theory. The attachments are attached. That's good. Uh but at the the base level, it's a theory in psychology and developmental informative processes as the way that we attach to our caregivers, to our parents, or guardians as an infant, right? Um, so as you're growing up, as you're developing as a human being, what do those relationships to your guardians, your parents, your caregivers, what do those look like? And then how does that manifest later in life? So a more formal definition is attachment theory is a psychological framework stating that early emotional bonds between infants and primary caregivers shape lifelong patterns of trust, intimacy, and emotional regulation. So, you know, no huge impacts from our infancy. That's don't need that at all. Doesn't matter whatsoever. Yeah. You can shake the baby. That's right. So patterns of trust, emotional regulation, all of that is really, really vital. Um, and over the next few weeks, we're gonna dive into this theory and how it may be impacting or how it is impacting us um in our lives today. So we're gonna start by looking at the things that we cling to. Maybe it's our job, maybe it's another person, um, maybe it is a hobby, something that we feel defines us. Um, maybe we attach ourselves to a certain talent or ability that we believe helps us to stand out or gives us an identity. Um, so from that first conversation point, guys, are there things in your life that you might consider that you are attached to? Maybe healthy, possibly unhealthy relationship. Hmm. Who wants to kick this one off? Let's see. Uh I'm gonna say eating, I eat at least once a day. I'm pretty attached to that hobby of mine.
SPEAKER_01Um about uh I got a hot one. How about our phones? That was just that's what popped in my head immediately. It's like I'm too attached to my phone.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, there's an unhealthy relationship there. I agree. Yeah, absolutely. Right. I mean, you know you're attached to it too when you like misplace it or when you or recently my phone has decided to like stop charging. Like I don't know. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm like panicking. I'm like, what if the battery, what if it's unable to charge again? Yeah, and I'm like, like, I don't know, can I go on? Can I can I keep existing? It's like it's okay, this might be an issue, right? The phone dies and I die. Yes, that's it, that's the end of me, you know. Um but I think yeah, I think like phone probably is an unhealthy one. Um I think relationally at times I can fall into like uh you know, potentially like codependency stuff, which is probably the unhealthy form of you know connection. Yeah, absolutely. So that's something that I think I I've been made aware of. I didn't it's something you don't recognize at first. Like, oh this is a codependent relationship typically. Yeah. At least in my you know, my uh journey. So I think that's been something that's been recognizing. Yeah. Like and that goes back to even like people pleasing, right? A lot of that is like trying to, you know, make sure that there's a an attachment that people are still wanting to be present with you, right? Yeah. Because you're you're you're doing the right thing or you're you're you know, uh what's the word? You're available or you're um you know, uh capable. What is a better word I can't think of? But uh you are reliable, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um so I think those are things. I think as far as like even um things like uh gifts or talents and things like that too, I'm sure there's there's moments of like that's who you know, I'll use that so I can be noticed about who I am, right? And so I'm kind of like attached to that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I think the danger with this uh topic is to look at it and to pathologize. You know, uh I agree with you with codependency and I tend to struggle with it a lot, but uh, you know, that idea that relationships are good, and so we don't want to get like go to the other extreme where we're like, okay, I just need to not have any relationships because I think that we tend to look at it and then kind of like demonize it and be like, no, no, no, we got we got I we gotta get rid of every relationship. And it's like no, there is a middle road, yeah, and and as we talk about attachment, even in looking at that, you know, there's extremes at times, but those extremes probably protected us tremendously at an earlier age, and so it's a matter of just adjusting and becoming aware of that's great, but yeah, yeah, dialing it in and that's yeah, figuring out the right the right amount, the healthy amount.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, right. We're going back to like what you said I did okay as holding with holding tensions, right? I think that's what we're talking about here too. We tend to culturally we tend to polarize and we tend to go extremes. Like that just feels like the right thing to do. Right, right. That's not necessarily how our complex human existence works. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01You know, and the other thing is that when we look at these, we don't need to label ourselves and take that on as our identity because that's not our identity. It's part of us, but it's not the totality of who we are. That's good.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and you should be a doctor, Mark. That's great. One day. I'll be a real boy. So, okay, doctor. Is there a difference between an addiction and an attachment? Is it just semantic or is there like a shadow version versus a healthy sign?
SPEAKER_01Well, I think that that attachment can lead to addiction, but not all attachment is addiction. You know, when you go to extremes, whether you whether you talk about attachment to things or to people, you know, I think that when we talk about in psychology attachment theory, we're talking about our relationship with other individuals. We're not really talking about things like drugs or alcohol or gambling or shopping or things like that.
SPEAKER_02Right. Right. That's good.
SPEAKER_00And so if you're talking about it and it's only towards people, is there such a thing as being addicted to a person? Like clinically, is that a thing?
SPEAKER_01Well, there wouldn't be like a clinical, you know, definition. We talk about codependency, right? You know, the the extreme of feeling like you need a person and becoming very possessive of them or them becoming possessive of you. You know, that that's part of it. It's on a spectrum though. And I I think that all of us have had that experience when we've been in junior high or high school, where we've wanted, you know, whether whether it be same same sex, you know, relationships or or whether it be opposite sex that, you know, we we don't we feel insecure, and so we want those people to be ours.
SPEAKER_00Right, right. Yeah, that makes sense. See, I told you he makes sense, Kurt.
SPEAKER_02I feel like we're uh attached to Mark in this. Yeah, we are.
SPEAKER_00We're very attached to you, sir. So here's another question. Doxins, you're uh one for one. Can we still find comfort in an attachment even if the person that we're attached to is bringing about dysfunction or the potential for harm? So can you still find comfort in someone who is toxic or or not healthy for you?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think that we've all had those experiences with individuals where we didn't realize how unhealthy the relationship was. And then as we've moved away from it, we kind of ask ourselves, like, what was that all about? But I think that sometimes we get addicted to chaos, and sometimes either we we provide the chaos or somebody else provides the chaos, and we don't even know about it. And they talk about when you've come from a chaotic home, peace feels very, very uncomfortable, security feels very, very uncomfortable. So we tend to gravitate toward individuals that will be representative of our family of origin.
SPEAKER_02That's really good.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah, because comfort then becomes almost synonymous with um prior experience with um yeah.
SPEAKER_02How often does like family of origin play a role in developing attachment theory style like styles?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I I would say 100% of the time.
SPEAKER_02Unless unless you change the the legacy, the behavior.
SPEAKER_01The other thing is like, you know, I would say that maybe change it from family of origin, which which is synonymous in some ways with your primary caretakers. You know, so if it's your mom and dad, they're definitely gonna dictate your attachment styles and influence them greatly. But if for some reason your parents are not there and it's an aunt or uncle or s or somebody else, then they're going to influence it. So it's it's your primary caregivers.
SPEAKER_02But I was thinking like does it continue up generationally generationally? You know, like is like is it just is it pattern, typically pattern? Is that like uh or does that change with like environments versus nature versus nurturers that you're asking with that? Um well I'm thinking like yes, your parents have created that, but then what about their parents? Oh, I I think my same.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I I think unless work has that's such a good question. I think unless work has been done, it tends to be generation after generation, and so your mom and dad learned it from their moms and dads, and so it gets diluted a little bit because it's a a cast of characters that's a little bit different. Sure, because you have like four grandparents, and so you know, that idea it definitely influences it. Temperament seems to influence it too. But the good news, and that's like what we want to kind of talk about after we talk about the types, is that it can change. Yeah, it definitely can. And uh, you know, uh attachment styles, it's not like you have one attachment style period.
SPEAKER_02It's not like you carry around this this for the rest of your life, and this is you know, this attach or whatever. Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_01It it it can be different with different people. And so just for people to think about, there's there is a um an individual and we'll give her name. I can't think of it now, I gotta look at it. But uh Diane Pooler Heller uh Diane Heller Pool, I think it is, and she's an expert, and there's some test that she has on the internet, and she makes the point that when you take it, you have to take it for each person in your life. You can't just take one, you know, person, like, okay, I'll take it for Kirk, and then that'll apply to Debbie, it'll apply to Emily, you know, it'll apply to everyone in my life. No, no, no. It it is different for every person.
SPEAKER_00You have different really, yeah. Interesting. Okay. I don't think, and I mean, this is kind of happens all the time, but I I don't think that's the way that it's really talked about in kind of pop culture when you're talking about attachment styles. I think um the way that I've heard it talked about in the past is what is your attachment style? And that's that's it. Like whatever that one is, that's what they kind of expect you to.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's I I agree with that. Like, because I was is there a prime like are there like primary attachment styles versus like like I don't this is all inquiry of putting Mark at the bus or something?
SPEAKER_01There's a lot of gray areas, but we talk about the four primary, which we can cover in a few minutes, you know, and and people are familiar with them maybe with different names, but but that idea that you know you're securely attached and that's on a continuum, it doesn't mean you are just securely attached because everybody has insecurities. And then you have like avoidant attachment, and we'll talk about that. You talk about anxious, uh ambivalent attachment, and then you talk about disorganized attachment. And and again, I just want people to hear you might be avoidant with one person and be disorganized with another. So it just doesn't follow suit that you're that way with everyone.
SPEAKER_00That is important to know, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that is really good.
SPEAKER_00So I'm gonna I'm gonna do my best mark impression here. What feelings or emotions come up in your body and mind when it comes to the thought of severing from something? How did I do? I don't know. Two marks here. This wild. Hey, you you're doing good.
SPEAKER_01So so I just want to go back for a minute. Yeah, Diane Poole Heller. Pool Heller O O L E Heller, and uh she's on the internet and there's an attachment quiz, and we can put that, I guess, in the show notes.
SPEAKER_02And you can't fail the quiz, right? No, no, no.
SPEAKER_01I don't like I don't think so. No, you can't open book quiz. You know, but it but it but it's the idea that with all of these things, we don't want to like pigeonhole and we don't want to be like, okay, this is how you are, and you're gonna be like that the rest of your life. We want it to be something where you can become curious about why you feel different, and that's a good point, Walter. How do you feel in your body when you are around one person and then somebody else? How do you feel? And and just monitoring that because you will feel different.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. That is so true. There's there are people that make me feel safer, and then I feel probably closer. I did definitely think my primary attachment style is secure, but I feel closer to that um with certain people, and then you know, different ones with others. So that makes sense. All right. So when it comes to things like the trauma we've experienced. Experience, the losses we've encountered, maybe we'd find peace or joy if we were able to detach from difficult moments to sever ourselves from them. And that that word severing has gained popularity with the Apple TV show of that title, Severance, starring Adam Scott from Parks and Wreck. But the concept is that these employees work for a company called Lumen. And what happens is each employee is given this microchip thing, and uh there they're detached from the person they are at work. Um, that person is detached or severed from the life they live outside of their job. So the innie exists within the office and has a life inside there. And when they leave the office, there comes the outie, the version of themselves that they are in the the rest of the world, right? Um and these two versions are unable to connect to one another given this operation that has taken place, this severance of the person as a whole. I don't want to give away the whole plot and the storyline, totally worth a watch. And the show is fascinating because it addresses a lot of different themes. One, of course, is that work-life balance thing, right? But the other is this idea of attachment, being attached to the moments in our lives that we just don't want to have to think about, the tragedies, the wounds, the losses, and how much we long to not have to cling to or to be triggered back towards those moments. So let's explore here. Should we be in favor of something like severing the attachments of trauma and harm, like the show is attempting to do? Um, so is that something that we should long for? Like, man, I remember a horrible memory in fourth grade. If I could just lob that off, would that be healthy for us, Mark? Is that I don't know.
SPEAKER_01Well, that would be awesome to do. It's just it's just impossible to do because it is lodged in your nervous system. That's good enough. And so, you know, it's it's not even a choice, really. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00So it's like just all fantasies you're saying. This is a good idea. Wait, who are you saying television is fake? It might be it might be. I thought this was reality TV show.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so I remember our first episode we talked about good mental health is reality at any cost. M. Scott Peck said that. And I think that you know, so many people come into sessions and go, you know what, if I could just get rid of triggers, my life would be wonderful. And it's like, yeah, but that's part of your nervous system. And and so your triggers have a lot to teach you if you can become curious. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01You don't you don't look sold on that, Walter.
SPEAKER_00I wish they would shut up sometimes. Um, I'm sure that they would make me very wise if I was curious about them. No, no, no, I I completely understand that. Yeah, it's it's a process, right? Um, I think sometimes people approach this idea of mental health as like kind of in a way that you would with like a strep throat. Give me an antibiotic, tell me a thing, and then it'll clear it up, and then we're good. Um, but the idea really is what you're saying is work, right? We can get curious about what's going on within us and start to to study ourselves and understand where things are coming from. And then over time, we can the triggers lose the the hold that they have over us. We're able to hold those those uncomfortable or difficult feelings um slightly better every day, hopefully, or over the years. And so it's it's just a very different form of of healing. It's more like physical therapy than than pharmaceutical, right? You can't just push a button or take a pill and it goes away. It's work over time. And sometimes if you have physical therapy for an injury, sometimes that will completely go away and you're able to make use of the joint or whatever it is um fully again, and sometimes you can't. Sometimes it's learning how to live with it.
SPEAKER_02Um so is that's really good. Um, I don't know if the question makes sense, but is do you feel like triggers is even the right word, like the proper word? Like I know it is the word, but like is it the most helpful word? Like is there should be something in its place? Like I don't I don't know.
SPEAKER_01Well, what we're really talking about is an emotional reaction, whether it's an under-reaction, and sometimes triggers cause us to go really like hypo aroused, and and sometimes they call cause us to become really hyper-aroused. So I think that triggers is an okay word, but I think really what we're talking about is an emotional reaction to stimuli outside of ourselves that that kind of like presses a button triggers or or presses a button and then we feel the way we do.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, like okay, that's helpful.
SPEAKER_01You know, I think the danger in that is just saying that the person over there makes me feel that way because it it's kind of like a two-party deal. You know, they're doing something that might cause a reaction within you, but that reaction in you has that predisposition.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that makes sense.
SPEAKER_01Like Debbie and I as an example, you know, I get triggered a lot more than she does. And sometimes it's like I'll say to her, like, doesn't that bot? And she's like, No, not at all. And it it's kind of like, well, that's a good example of where something happened inside of me that it doesn't happen inside of her.
SPEAKER_02That's really yeah, that's good. Yeah, that's fascinating. I'm just writing thoughts. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I was gonna ask you, what are you thinking?
SPEAKER_02You look I'm puzzled. No, in a good way. Um yeah, I I'm trying to sometimes you know, I've been in circumstances where, you know, you're triggering me, right? And I, you know, I and I can see some moments where that people maybe intentionally do that, and that there's a there's a there's a a warning and over that, like please don't do that, right? But then is there like responsible are we responsible? Like what are triggers trying to like they're subjective, right? They're not to be applied are they to be applied elsewhere? Does that make sense? Well trying to form my question.
SPEAKER_01Okay, like I'll give you I'll give you an example of a trigger that recently happened in our in our home. Debbie and I were I think it was yeah, it was Sunday night, and Debbie said to me, it was like maybe eight o'clock at night, the kitchen sink is leaking. Okay. But it wasn't okay for me. And so what happened with me is I went from zero to ten over just a statement that she made. And it was interesting because I had a podcast with Tim Fletcher the next day, and so I asked him if we could talk about that and use that as an example, and he was like, Yeah, and he was like, Okay, well, does that bring you back to your dad at all? And I was like, Yeah, because when my dad was fixing things, hammers would fly, things would like he'd be screaming and hollering, and then the you know, the kitchen would be flooded and he would be screaming at us, look at what you did.
SPEAKER_02That makes sense about that.
SPEAKER_01And he's like, Well, how does your mom fit into that? And and he's like, What was Debbie doing? And I was like, Well, my mom was really dependent and expected me to take care of it. And so that kind of filtered in with Debbie. And and Tim said to me, You know, did you feel helpless? I was like, Oh yeah, because I don't know how to fix things. Like, and and if I started working on it, it would be so much worse by by nine o'clock at night. And he was like, Okay, and so yeah, that triggered me. And Debbie's words triggered me, but it's a whole party, yeah, it's a whole carnival, you know, of rides that I was going on, you know, and and then there was like a wanting to pull away and be like, This isn't my house, this isn't my kitchen, this isn't, you know, yeah, and and and going to that extreme. Right, avoidance that's right. So it's like, okay, well, it is my kitchen, it is my responsibility. But first of all, I had to get you know, rooted and grounded in myself to say to Debbie, like, you know what, we're gonna put a bowl under it right now and and we're gonna work on it, but not right now.
SPEAKER_02That's good.
SPEAKER_01And so I think that things can trigger us, like sinks or wives, or husbands, or girlfriends, or boyfriend, whatever. But it's inside of us, and so we have the responsibility to gently take that apart and figure out what's going on. Does that make sense? Makes sense.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, 100%. And I first I thank you for sharing your personal experience. I think that's really um I I yes, in in different forms, I I understand that type of triggering where, you know, especially when it comes to like doing things handy around the house and what that brings. Yeah. And when, you know, if my wife just makes a statement like, hey, this is br we need to get this fixed, yeah. What I what's that sends me into yeah, right?
SPEAKER_01So you know, and the healthy thing and and the enriching thing, and the if we can use these things in different areas of our lives or be able to go back to our partners or to other individuals, yeah, and be able like Debbie knew as soon as I said we're not gonna deal with this right now, that I was triggered. Right. Yeah. And she was like, Okay, well, we'll have to get a big one. I'm like, get the biggest one you got. Yeah, this is gonna take some time. Yeah, you know, and so then the next morning she brought it up to me. I was better, but still not all the way there. You know, so it it just I I share that example because there's just so many layers that that come to play with helplessness, with family of origin, with maybe your marriage and how your how your relationship is now with your marriage. And Debbie and I have been able to work through a lot of these things, but it still is hard.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah, it's I mean, there's a lot of beauty in what you're describing too, right? The work that you've done to identify it, to understand where it's coming from, to realize, hey, this is throwing me off. Something just happened inside of me, and it's not really Debbie's fault. It's not the Sync's fault, it's a bunch of things that are that are all converging. Um, there's the beauty of the work that you've done with Debbie over time so that she's aware of what's going on and isn't angry at you for reacting. It's not, you know, your fault. Um, and the communication, the fact that you guys are able to talk about it and and to have the maturity to put it away, right? Um, there are, I would say most problems don't have to be solved in the moment. I think we want to. I think we're kind of hardwired because of society to like just get things done, go, go, go. But there are so many things that you can put a pin in and just, you know, let's come back to this tomorrow, let's look at this next week, um, to give yourself the time to work through it. So as difficult as it sounds like that was for you, Mark, and thank you for sharing it. Uh there's just so many really wise and wisdom nuggets of wisdom that we can pull from that. So that's yeah, it's wonderful.
SPEAKER_01You know, and I say that for us, because when you go from zero to seven and or zero to eight, I just want you to know how complex the situation is. It might not just be one thing, it could be a whole plethora of things, yeah. And just to be aware of the complexity with all of that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that is that's so good. That's because you are like you said, you're bringing so many other um characters alongside how did how did my father end up in the kitchen? How did my mom end up in the kitchen? But that's real, yeah. And that's like being able to just be honest about that is really important to be able to like and identify that, I think, is huge. Like I think before doing any work in my own life, like I don't I felt those things, but I know how to like identify it so I couldn't communicate it. Right. Like I just didn't like couldn't give it words and like therapy, things like that has helped me like really identify and place things like that. But but it was hard because it's like, why am I feeling that like not everybody feels should should I be feeling this way? Right. But like something like you know, fixing a say or whatever, you know, that's it's just it's just very interesting.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's I I think it's something the people that that try to shut those moments down and say like get over it. Um they don't understand how many ghosts we all carry. There's there's families, like people that have passed away decades ago, there are people we're no longer friends with, there are teachers, there are there are all of these people that come along with us on our journey for the rest of our lives. That if we don't take the time to figure out, hey, that's this person's voice, that person was wrong about that, you know, and and if we don't take the time to kind of sort through all of those voices in our lives and and put them in their proper place and understand them and and um detach when we need to or or make our peace with things that have happened, we just drag that into everything and we're just plowing through our lives, our children's lives, our friends' lives, everyone we come into contact with, with this this huge house party of pain, and it it just leaves wreckage behind. It's a very cool band name. Oh, yes, party. Okay, there we go. I'm stealing it from the end. Oh, that is awesome. So we're gonna give you um all of the answers to every question you've ever had on this podcast. Absolutely. Um, just not today. Um, we're just glad to be back with you with our amazing audience. Um, great to be back in the room with you guys doing this. Um, and I'm looking forward to diving into the conversations on attachment theory that are gonna be coming up. We're gonna tackle all of these. Mark actually mentioned the four uh today. So we're gonna be uh tackling all of those over the next few weeks. But uh until next time. Can I plug some?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, please, please plug away.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_02We're getting close to another season of commonality. We forget about that yes, at Common Place Church. And uh yeah, we kicked it off last year around this time. And uh it I yeah, just so excited for what you know how how it turned out. Yeah. Just the people that we the stories we were able to uh work through and just people we were able to meet. And um, yeah, I don't know.
SPEAKER_01So Kirk, let me let me ask you real quick while you're talking about it. How how would you describe a little bit of what? You know, because it's like we were talking about this the other day, how hard it is to describe, but like even a little bit like what and Walter, you were there, maybe you could share it also.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I love the uh I was supposed to figure out this answer to this question after our meeting. I didn't do it. So put me on the spot here now. Um yeah, I think it's really like uh opening up our being, you know, being okay to just just share our journeys with people to to just you know process through our journeys, share our journeys really for the sake of discovery and understanding. Yeah. Um and I think that's what stories reveal to us. They they they speak not only to what the situation was, but they also speak to what how we how we potentially handle situations now. Like it really comes even to the idea of triggering in some regards too, like just trying to understand and discover. So that is not a short answer to what you asked me. Um story work is uh healing work, I think, in some regards. Um story work is informative work, uh discovery.
SPEAKER_01Um and story work is not your whole story, it is just like taking an incident in your life that caused harm and spending the time to kind of think about it and not run away from it, get closer to it and to write it down to kind of step into that five-year-old or that ten-year-old, uh, their position and what they were feeling at the time, and then to be able to have people bear witness to that.
SPEAKER_02That's that's beautiful. Because that's that's the other thing is like doing it, having a safe community to do that is huge. And and the amount of times people would just even share, like, I yeah, that like I understand a similar story, yeah. You know, like I've been through something similar, not the exact same thing, right? But something similar and just the the beauty of of being able to walk alongside people in that is is is huge. So um I say, you know, we may not have like the greatest pitch for it, but just come check it out. Yeah. You know, I think I think it's worth exploring. It's gonna be Monday, uh next I'm sorry, Monday the 28th of September, and that's seven to nine at uh the church up here at 200 Flanders Dreakstown Road. Right. Oh, that's awesome.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we're uh excited about that. So many things starting up again, right? The cyclical nature of our lives. Um, we want to just remind you that God cares about your full health, your mental, your physical, and emotional health, and he cares about you. Uh until next time, all we love you, God loves you, and we'll see you soon. See ya. Bye.