Made By Challenge
Hosted by Alberto Sardinas. Made By Challenge is a podcast where high profile guests share how personal hardship shaped them and sparked businesses, lifelong missions and prosperity.
We focus on how they turned pain into purpose — and stories into career and business impact.
Made By Challenge
He Built a Bank During the 2008 Crisis and Sold It for $168M
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Most people think success comes from talent, hustle, or having the perfect business idea. Eddy Arriola believes it comes from something much simpler: relationships.
After founding Apollo Bank during the 2008 financial crisis and eventually selling it at a $168 million valuation, Eddy discovered that every major breakthrough in his life came through people, not shortcuts.
In this episode of Made by Challenge, host Alberto Sardiñas sits down with entrepreneur, author, and former Apollo Bank CEO Eddy Arriola to discuss how relationships became the foundation of building and selling a bank valued at $168 million.
Whether you're launching a company, growing your career, or simply trying to become someone others want to work with, this episode offers practical advice you can start using today.
💬 What's one relationship that changed the course of your career? Let us know in the comments.
📖 Get It's All About Relationships by Eddy Arriola:
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Its+All+Ab...
🌐 Learn more about Eddy:
https://eddyarriola.com
👍 Subscribe for more conversations with entrepreneurs, creators, and leaders:
https://www.youtube.com/@MadeByChalle...
I have a spreadsheet with my friend.
SPEAKER_00Founded a bank in 2008, The Worst Possible Time. Sold it in 2022, valued at $168 million, and wrote a book about the one thing that made it all work. Relationships. There is very little that you can do in life without working through others. What was the story of the bad timing of Apollo Bank? Age 32, two kids at home, four to five days a week on the road. His startup metric wasn't revenue. It was how many nights a week am I home for dinner?
SPEAKER_01I want to leave every single conversation better off.
SPEAKER_00Because every breakthrough begins with a challenge. Eddie Arriola, made by challenge. Most people watch this, get the value, and disappear. The ones who subscribe, they're the ones building something. So hit subscribe, turn on notifications, because you never know, you never know which guest drops the next exact framework, the one that you need, the one that rewires how you think about your career and your life. Eddie Ariola. So you have been an entrepreneur for more than 25 years. Yes. There are many entrepreneurs, but you're the type of entrepreneur that founded a bank and sold a bank. And you wrote this book called It's All About Relationships, Mastering the Art of Relational Leadership. If I'm in my mid-20s and I'm trying to figure out life, and I don't know if I'm going to stay at the job or I can't find a job, I'm trying to be entrepreneurial. Why should I pay attention to what you have to say today?
SPEAKER_01I've built a life, not just a career, not just a business, a life that, quite frankly, I wanted and designed. And I built it mostly through relationships, by get realizing that where I wanted to be and where I want to go, even continuing through the rest of my life, through other people. So I have a framework and I've thought about even since my early 20s of if that's the life I want to get to, I can't just do it through hard work. I can't just do it by trying to be the smartest in the room. I think I need other people in my life. And so I've built a framework and I like to talk about uh how I've done that.
SPEAKER_00So you grew up in an immigrant family that worked really hard, that did well, that had, you know, that was entrepreneurial and also had different government positions. They they they raised their profile in a good way. And a lot of people love to talk about how they grew up poor, that they don't have anything, and they it seems like the contrast between not having anything and having it all uh makes a really good video for the internet. That's right. But at the same time, I feel that there's a lot to say about those who had to start at a level where other people would only dream to start. Yes. But there's still that pressure from what it is that you're going to accomplish. Tell me a little bit about the upbringing and the pressure that you felt by not being at that rock bottom place.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so the best movies that we talk about are always like the dramatic scenes. You know, Rocky has nothing and rise up to be a world champion. Uh that, you know, I mentioned Gladiator, Gladiator, where uh the general everything's taken from him and he has to go to be a slave and work through and and uh and sort of you know reclaim uh the empire.
SPEAKER_00We're talking about the pressure of starting at a place that's unnecessarily rock bottom for someone.
SPEAKER_01So if you don't start at rock bottom, uh you really have to find the motivation deep within you. Because if you're at rock bottom, you need to say, how do you know it's about survival, it's about uh you know getting from being you know a nobody to being somebody. But if you have a good life, if you have a good job, if you have a good career, and maybe by stepping outside your uh your comfort zone, you actually may be putting people that you really care about at risk, like your wife or your kids. So it really has to be like deep internal of like, who am I? Who do I really want to be? And that's where I found myself early on in my career. I when I got out of college, I had a good career, I started a couple different businesses. Briefly, I had worked for my father, things were going great. But when I went from age 22 to age 32, I had sort of a an aha moment and said, I want the next 10 years of my life to be different than the last 10 years of my life. And I set out on and sort of really designing my life and thinking about what are all the steps I need to take in order to be where I want to be and not being afraid of doing those things, even though I already had a reputation that could potentially be at risk. I already had a sort of um well-defined path that I continue to follow. But to be able to go deep within myself and be like, that's not who I am, that's not who I really want to be. Uh it's comfortable, it's nice, but 10 years out, 20 years out, and even beyond, I'm gonna look back and be like, why didn't you take that bold move?
SPEAKER_00So, what did you decide to do? What was the practical answer to your 10-year life design? You had a couple of companies, and what what turn did you make?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so there were a couple, so I ended up starting a business, and we can talk a little bit about the business and when it happened and and that sort of thing. But my my real driver was uh I was 32 years old. I had started uh a marketing company, I was involved in call center and data management and and uh direct-to-consumer fulfillment, and I was spending four out of five days on the road, and I had two little kids, and I wanted to be at home more, I wanted to uh work with people that I had uh local relationships with, I wanted to be uh you know more ingrained in my community, and where I found in what I was doing, I was four out of five days on the road calling on uh the Walmarts, the Procter and Gambles, uh the really big companies, and not being able to establish a relationship with some mid-level manager in you know Fayetteville, Arkansas, or Bentonville, Arkansas, or Cincinnati, Ohio. So uh, and part of always being on the road, I wasn't able to connect with my friends, connect with my community, get involved in my community. So it was really sort of like more of a life design of one of my key metrics or my my own personal life when I was said I was gonna start a new business was uh how many nights a week am I gonna have dinner at home? So I'm like, I want to have dinner at home with my kids at least three nights a week, if not five nights a week, you know, during the week. Um and so I started to define businesses and and sort of the you know where I had skills to sort of identify that type of business, that type of opportunity. I wanted to be in a community in a in a business that was uh locally based because I loved being a part of my community. I wanted to be able to tap into relationships, I wanted to be dealing with entrepreneurs. And part of that sort of led me as I started to find, it was either I was gonna run like a maybe a casino locally where I was interacting with people, but that wasn't that didn't really fulfill sort of uh you know be at home every night. Um but I really sort of uh loved the idea of a community bank, and especially back when I first started this bank, uh community bankers and people that ran community banks were were pillars of the community. They were able to uh give loans to businesses that were really building the community. They were able to sponsor different organizations that were really, again, sort of the backbone of our community uh and provide local jobs and create new jobs through other businesses, and I just fell in love with that.
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SPEAKER_01It wasn't about the dollars and cents. It wasn't about sort of the market return. It was that's the kind of lifestyle I want to have. I want to be able to have, you know, clients be my friends, the people that I bump into in the community, uh, build long-term relationships, and see my kids every night.
SPEAKER_00There's this perception in the general population that that the banker is a little bit of the villain of the story. So you you obviously have had a different perception and you had a different attitude towards it. But when somebody thinks about their banker, they think about somebody collecting money or you haven't paid your loan, that kind of thing. And and what's really interesting is that you even suggest anybody within any generation to develop a relationship with their banker.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_00There's something that is hard for me to pinpoint that you find warm about a banking relationship. Can you explain that? And how did you build that in your business? And how can we see it differently if we think about a banker like the guy who would call us and collect?
SPEAKER_01Well, uh, Hollywood has done a great job of casting bankers as the villains. And it's because, for the most part, they dress poorly. Back in the day, they used to always wear gray suits and a tie, and they would sit in their in their chair uh with a suit. Uh, it was usually older, boring men that didn't like to work hard. So they sort of played into that trope of boring, not interesting, uh bureaucratic people. But especially in South Florida, in entrepreneurial cities, uh, you talk to any local business and they say, well, the reason I was able to expand, it's because I got a loan from my local banker. It was a guy I met at my church or I went to high school with, or who's my brother-in-law or a sister-in-law. And so, and and if you scratch a little more and you dig a little deeper on those types of stories, it wasn't because they called an 800 number or they went to a website. It's because they got to know the person. And that banker visited the business, heard about the story, believed in the individual, and said, All right, I'm gonna champion you and your cause, and I'm gonna go back to my bank and rally our team and help you out, and I'm gonna introduce you to a lawyer, I'm gonna introduce you an accountant, I'm gonna take all the information you provided to me, and back, and I'm using my hands for it used to be stacks of paper, now it's all electronic, but sort of metaphorically it was a stack of paper. Um, and they're the ones that make it happen. And and again, you know, to go back to sort of the the idea of it's all about relationships, there is very little that you can do in life without working through others. And so a key, especially if you're a business person, you want to talk to well, the people that have money. And so in some cases, it's it's a traditional commercial banker, it may be an investment banker, uh, other people that you know now sort of the whole finance world you know continues to evolve, but there are other people that are sort of responsible for money that are in the business of giving out money or lending money, and you have to spend time with them and understand uh you know what are their goals, what are their parameters, what are their limits, uh, and see how you can operate uh in that space. But if you look at you know any successful, uh you know, any successful business, there's probably some some leverage or something that they did to put on their business that required a bank, a lender, a financial institution to help them grow.
SPEAKER_00Just as you recommend that somebody that has a business that needs a little bit of funding or may need a little bit of funding in the future or needs a lot of funding, just as you recommend that somebody goes and develops the relationship with a banker, would that also work at a local level if I'm trying to figure out, you know, how do I buy a house? How do I refinance some debt that I have? I have some bad credit or debt. Like sometimes I feel that when we have anything that can be a financial problem, we tend to shy away from the bank because we don't want to talk to anyone that could judge us. I'm wondering if that idea of having a relationship with a banker could also help us if we're having some financial troubles or something that we need to accomplish different than a business.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, look, I I think with almost anything, you want to go in with sort of a get a beginner's mind. You want to say, I really don't know anything. Even if you think you know, you don't know anything. And say, I'm gonna go into their side of the pool, go into the water, and try to figure out what I don't know. So it could be, you know, how does one produce a TV show? You think you know, but you don't. There's producers and cameramen and editors and trucks and lighting people, there's this whole other world that until you dive into it, you're like, I didn't understand, I didn't understand the flexibility you have as well as the restrictions you have. And the same is um, you know, in in every business, but especially in banking. To if if you're going into, let's say, well, you you know, the example of you have a problem with a loan, uh, you want to understand well what's really driving a lot of times with banks, it's well, we have uh you know regulatory you know restrictions. We have you know uh too you know too many problem loans in this area, or uh you know, uh you know, we we can no longer bank clients in uh of a certain type of industry for whatever reason. You really under want to understand why there's all this pressure. Now, if you're not paying your bills at all, that's a different situation. But if you're trying to talk about why aren't they seeing things the way I'm seeing it, you know, well, you know, flip the page and try to see, you put yourself in their in their position, be like, well, what are they seeing about me and my industry that I don't understand that's restricting them or sort of you know blocking them from seeing uh the clearest picture?
SPEAKER_00Now, when it comes to opening this banking business, and I'm trying to project myself into and ourselves into the person that's starting a business in 2026 and that it's trying to figure things out, and they see uh the economy being a little flaky, you're getting some positive signals, some negative signals, you're wondering if it's a good time. You are the perfect testimony of somebody opening a business at the worst of the times to open that business. Can you share that story and tell me how we can learn from your story if we're starting our story now?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So I always start the premise of it's always a good time to start a great business. No matter what business you're in, there's always gonna be good times, bad times. And if you were to go back at any point of time, people are saying, oh, it's great, but something bad is coming. Or it's bad, it's only gonna get worse. There's always it's never a true a true sort of blue sky scenario. So there's always reasons of uh blaming sort of the economy or the economic situation on not starting a business or not plowing ahead. But again, I start with the basic premise, it's always a good time to start, it's always a good time to start a great business. So if you go in saying, I'm committed to this, I have the right people behind me. And it could be it, you know, you could because you have partners who put together a team, or just be could be that I have really good support, I have really good references. My former boss may not be working with me or for me, but they're gonna provide a letter of reference. Or if you were to call them, they're gonna tell you how hard I work, how smart I am, and some of the ideas I've had. So, you know, you want to go in, here's my team, here's my plan, and really commit to the long haul. You know, one of the things with you know, uh you know, we become fascinated with you know, sort of these internet sensations of, oh, this person started this business and then they sold it 18 months later and now they're on a yacht in the Mediterranean. I mean, that first of all, it probably is not true. Second, it's so few and far between, and almost any single successful story that you hear, it's built you know over decades and over a long period of time, and those are the things that you really need to you know to focus on, you know, almost every single success story. And I you know, I can't say 100%, but 99% are started because of hard work, they put the time into it, they put together um, you know, a a good team behind them. And uh when you know they they came with challenges and setbacks because you will always have challenges, you will always have setbacks. Uh you know how you respond to it. What's again sort of your the relationships you have to to support you? And that's why when I go back, when I hear people like, oh, it's not a good time to start a business. Well, even if it was a great time, one year from now it's gonna be a bad time. You're you're gonna have the ups and downs, and so you have to prepare for any and all those times.
SPEAKER_00So you started Apollo Bank, which years later was able to be sold at a valuation of $168 million that is that's been printed in the news. What was the story of the bad timing of Apollo Bank? Like suddenly you got together, you're like, okay, we're we have the ability to start this type of business, which is a bank, we're gonna leverage our relationships, and then what happened?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so we started the process. When I say we, it was me, but in my head it was a we. Uh in 2008, at the time in early 2008, uh, it was we were just coming off in 2007. Uh, a lot of really well-run community banks, especially in the market I was in, South Florida, uh, had been sold. So there were banks like uh uh Gibraltar Bank and City National Bank and Total Bank, which I was on the board of Total Bank, those banks were sold, they made a lot of money, it was a great time. And so I saw it as an opportunity of wow, these banks that were service-oriented, had great client bases, all of a sudden created a service void. So I thought that was great, and I really focused in on that. And at the time in 2008, the economy started to turn, and I said, Well, we always have recessions. Uh, this can't be that bad. You know, by the time I actually get up and running, um, what will have gotten out of this recession? Well, you know how the story goes throughout 2008 and 2009, things only got worse and deeper and darker.
SPEAKER_00Wasn't that the time where people were getting like loans without guarantees and everybody's getting a pro loan approved and and there was a financial crisis and they had to to help the government had to help the banks so they could survive?
SPEAKER_01So the, you know, it's called the the great financial crisis, you know, for all the reasons of uh you know terrible credit default. You know, uh legitimately there was you know uh you know serious cases of fraud, uh you know, terrible risk management on Wall Street and big uh large banks. Uh government didn't really have you know a solution on how on how to go about this. And so it was just too frothy and we didn't have the the tools in place. And again, there was legitimate fraud and undercapitalized.
SPEAKER_00And in the meantime, you were starting a bank.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So I I you know so it's all admitted, it's like you know, you go out, so I'm gonna go fishing and it's a little cloudy, and all of a sudden it's like the perfect storm. And so you can either stay out there and get it washed away, um, or just really believe in yourself. And there were times when, you know, I didn't have investors, you know, more actually the the biggest challenge was um the regulator saying, you know, literally had a conversation where you know we went in the we know went in to meet with uh the FDIC and they're saying, you want us to approve you to start a new bank. You have the capital, you have the strategy, you have the management. But we're closing other banks. You know, we're we're we're shutting down banks every single Friday. And at that time it was, you know, they were shutting down dozens of banks every Friday. Like, what are you doing? Like, we don't have time to you know to address.
SPEAKER_00And you're wasting our time by bringing in your little banking project while we're shutting down all of these other banks. Why should we pay attention to you? That's kind of like the message you got. That's literally the message I got.
SPEAKER_01But then uh I had brought in uh a partner, a gentleman by the name of Richard Daly, who was uh older than me, more experienced, had really uh had been through all these things, and he had relationships with the regulators, and he had sort of, in a sense, lent me his the the trust. And when he came into a meeting with me, they're saying, Oh, this guy's done it before, and if he trusts you and believes in you, um, we're willing to extend the conversation. Not that they were gonna say yes, not that they were gonna bless anything we did, but they were willing to sit at the table. And then specifically with our regulators, they said, You have the capital, you have the management, you have the team, why do you want to start a new bank? Why don't you go out and try to buy one of these troubled banks? We'll expedite that process for you because you accomplished your goal, but you also take one of the problems away from us.
SPEAKER_00Oh wow. So they suggested that maybe a bank that was in trouble, why don't you just take over this bank now that you have the whole structure in place as opposed to opening another bank that could mean trouble in three years for it?
SPEAKER_01And so the decision was made that that's what we were going to focus on uh immediately. We actually followed a parallel path and we were approved to start a new bank. But by the time we got to that point, um, we had identified a small bank that met our criteria. They weren't too far, too far gone. They were small enough where it was uh new capital, new management, uh, new team can turn them around. And that made all the difference because we had some infrastructure to start and we were able to really launch Apollo Bank. But that was it was very hard. When I was going out trying to raise capital to you know, friends and family and anyone I could meet, and the conversation was oh, you you're you want to raise capital, and I you know I don't know who you are, I don't, you know, I don't know where you start. We've never run a bank, and I can go online right now and buy Citibank for a dollar. Like, why would I why would I do this? And so I didn't have a pitch, I never talked about dollars and center. It was always about here's a people, here's strategy, here's our long time, long-term vision, um, really sort of relaying our our service offer, and that that resonated with people like, oh yes, I have been a banking client. I do see that uh there is a service void, and if you really deliver on that, um there is an opportunity. If you do have these relationships in place, and especially at that time, and I still believe it's true, um one to one personal relationships. If you can bring those over to your bank, that can be super valuable. And if you can really bring in a team and treat people and create a culture like you're talking about, you're right, that is valuable. And people started to take or realize like, oh, the the best investments are are truly long term investments. So they started to take a 10, 15 year time. Horizon.
SPEAKER_00You know, I've always been fascinated at the people that focus first on the mission, on the value proposition, and that are able to detach from the financial immediate financial outcome. And I've come to realize also that as much as somebody may need to make a buck here and there because we all need to make a living, there's something magical about forgetting for a moment about the money that will be made and focusing on the impact you're going to create. Now, I believe the average 25-year-old could have a really hard time convincing himself of that or herself of that. How could you get that message across to somebody watching or listening?
SPEAKER_01Well, so you certainly have to meet sort of your basic needs. If you got to pay rent, you got to have uh you know food on the table and those sorts of things. So I'm not saying you know, become you know a monk and and and live that way because that's that's not what this is about, especially as it relates to business. But like with anything, is um try to detach yourself as much as possible from the present you. And then in my book, I talk about sort of the the three conversations I always have. The three people that I go to for guidance are the eight-year-old Eddie, the 18-year-old Eddie, and the 80-year-old Eddie. And the 80-year, you know, the the 80-year-old Eddie is always you know telling me um, you know, to well, to take a long-term view, to uh to be bold, but to really value relationships and think about the why, that you know, the 80-year-old looking back and spending time with the family isn't so concerned about how big the house is. Um, you know, if there's caviar or champagne there, it it's uh it's more about you know the the people that you're surrounding yourself with, you know, how can you help others? Um, you know, do those people that are you know present with you at the at the 80-year-old birthday, do those people want to be there? And and and if they want to be there, why is that? Is it because they're you're they're taking something from you, or is it because they just want to be in your presence? So um, and again, and I look back, you know, the 18-year-old is like you don't need that much. Um just you know, go out and be bold and and uh and I go back and and and the the eight-year-old is you know to be playful and and and enjoy life, and and again, and a lot of it's uh you don't need that much.
SPEAKER_00So you're talking about a concept that you actually share in your book, yeah. So it's all about relationships, and uh page 110. You talk about the a like that you live with three versions of yourself that you tap into uh frequently. So it's the 80-year-old Eddie, the 18-year-old Eddie, and the 80-year-old Eddie. And I I like how you wrap up the 80-year-old Eddie, where you say, above all, this version reminds me of how precious time is and how I need to make the most of what I have in the present. And and I think it's a powerful concept. But I'm wondering exactly as you were talking about, you know, making sure that you're meeting your needs and your basic needs and the mortgage is paid, etc. How do you reconcile the enjoyment and making sure that that life is meaningful with the need to balance making a living, surviving in a world that is constantly changing and that maybe doesn't benefit as much the little guy as it used to?
SPEAKER_01Yes. So uh the system is rigged, you have to go in assuming that the system is rigged against you because it is rigged against you. Um you have to meet your basic needs. You have to really make sure that you define what your basic needs are. So, you know, your your basic needs aren't, you know, to drive a new, you know, uh Ford Mustang with the you know the big engine. You're your your base and and again that's easy for me to say from the the perch I'm in, but you really want to start with um what can I live without? And if if perhaps you can say, well, I can live without that dream of starting my own business, that dream of really working on this side hustle of doing and it's but sometimes it's not. I mean, and I know with me it wasn't. There was I could have stayed, I was you know, partners with uh two of my brothers in a company that still exists, and I'm still uh a minority partner in the business. But the real me wanted my own business in a different industry. I wanted to test uh my skill set in something that I've never tested it in. And so it's really defined what is it that you need, both from a financial standpoint and also from a you know from a personal standpoint, what what you're in. And then I would say um you don't necessarily have to go out and start another business. You don't, uh there are things that you can do from you know, you know what I'll call sort of you know moonlighting. So if if my dream were to be I, you know, I want to be in the media business, so maybe it's to call you and be like, can I can I spend two hours? You know, you're doing a you're doing a podcast, can I just sit in there in the room for two hours and be like, do I really want to do that? And you start to see all the, you know, being here with you today, I've seen the 50 little things that are happening in the background. And if I want to be in your shoes, am I willing to deal with those 50 things? Am I willing, do I have a way of sort of tweaking and making you know some of those 50 things better? So I think there's little things that you can do. One of which, and I I wrote a book about this, called It's All About Relationships, is start to establish relationships and reach out to people and be like, I want to be here in 10 years. I know you know it all begins with once, you know, the journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step is can you reach out to someone? If your dream is to open up a bookstore, you know, reach out to to Mitch Kaplan of Books and Books and be like, Can I hang out? Can I, you know, can I buy you a cup of coffee? Can I sit and learn about it? Mitch Kaplan will be, well, the first thing to do is you're not just selling books, you're selling coffee, you're selling food, you're you're hosting events, and really learn about those businesses without taking a risk, without quitting your job. There's a bunch of so many little stuff. Reading books, watching movies, listening to podcasts, taking notes and really thinking about um, and not just get caught up in the glamour of it all.
SPEAKER_00I'm very disappointed about something I read on the book because all of us that dream or are working on entrepreneurship dream about freedom. Yeah. And you made the terrible realization in the book that even the highest and biggest boss has a boss. That's right. How does that work out if I'm looking for independence?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So it's funny because uh I believe freedom is the goal. Um, but once you're you're there, you get you can get caught up uh in the trap of uh power, prestige, uh external uh uh external sort of acknowledgement and and acceptance from others. And so you can get caught in the trap, and that can be part of your boss. And in the book, I specifically talk about people because it's it's about relationships. But it is important to talk about freedom. Um when I sold our company in October or 2022, um, I thought it was exactly what I wanted. I that I wanted freedom and not have to work and the CEO of the Var Choir, and I'm still involved with that company on the board. It's like, what do you want to do? And I'm like, uh, I don't want to manage a team anymore. I want to you know kiss babies and shake hands and do. And he's like, Great, that's what you get to do. Uh and it drove me crazy because I was like, why is it, why aren't people coming to see me anymore? Why aren't people coming to my office? Why don't I get to make decisions? Where's this why why can't I be the one that solves the stress or creates the stress? Um and I was caught in that trap of even though I had financial freedom, even though I had the time, um, I wasn't taking advantage of it. And so you know the the the ones uh you know the one moment that hit me was I had a client call me one time, it was a longtime client, shortly after our sale, and he had he wanted to get something done with our bank. And I won't say his full name as I you know, I go, Adam, like I can't help you. Like that's not my decision anymore. You have the guy you're talking to is the guy you have to talk to. And then when he's done with that phone call, he's not gonna call me, he's gonna call this other guy. So you need to meet that other guy, I'll reach out to that other guy, but I'm not the guy, I'm I'm not in anymore. And that was like for me to acknowledge that was really hard. And and but it was it was freeing. And he goes, So, so what are you good for? I go, nothing. In fact, I'm home right now and I'm gonna go in my pool. And I remember it was a Monday at two o'clock. And he was like, I have a pool that I haven't been in in two years. He's like, I want to be what you were doing. Go, I'll take care of the problem. And just allowing myself that freedom and saying, I truly, you know, I I don't have a boss, but even that came with the price, which is that my, you know, I had to find a different way to satisfy my ego or suppress my ego. I had to find a different way of having purpose. Um, but in businesses, a lot of times, well, I shouldn't say a lot of times, even if you're the the owner CEO, um, you know, you you may be in a regulated business. So at it uh at Apollo Bank, uh, I was in a regulated business. It was I had this non-equity partner in our company, which are the regulators. And that's not just banking, it's uh you know, uh uh, you know, TV and broadcasting is if you're I have a uh the editor of my book, um she was reading it and she got to the point in that chapter and she was saying, like, oh, I don't really know about business. My dad and my brother uh own a company, they own a distillery, and um and they don't have a boss. I don't think this is true, but I'll keep I'm just you know work you know for words and and and and structure and that sort of thing. And then when she got to the part about regulators, she goes, Ah, my dad and my brother are always complaining about the uh the alcohol and beverage you know department in California that's driving the crazy and they want to get rid of the distillery because they hate those people.
SPEAKER_00It's a little similar to what people say about owning a home, that they say, well, I mean, you may be able to pay your home outright, but the day you stop paying taxes for it, the government can take it away, even if you already paid it outright.
SPEAKER_01Everything comes with a cost. So uh I own my own home, there's always something breaking. You know, if I were renting and something broke, I'd just call the landlord and say, you know, uh, come fix it. If there's uh termites, a leak, you know, uh the gardeners come and cut uh you know a pipe and all of a sudden my you know the irrigation system's messed up. That's that's my problem, not the landlord. So you know, everything comes with a price, and you have to be willing to understand that and accept that, especially you know, entrepreneurship, that freedom is sort of an elusive goal. And when you when it's within your grasp, you have to really reach for it and understand what what you're grabbing. As the example I gave uh with myself is really embracing the freedom, being comfortable. Freedom means that you don't have to you know respond to anyone, that you can do whatever you want. Um but when you have that, go do it. Because a lot of people don't. A lot of people are they you know they want the accolades, they want, even though they're the boss, there's still someone telling them what to do. And it's usually their assistant, their team, their management, their clients filling their calendar, and they're just reacting to that calendar that someone else filled, even though they're the boss.
SPEAKER_00So you mentioned something pretty crazy, in my opinion, in this book. As I'm reading all about relationships, I see how in the world of relationships, you're suggesting to sit down, have a cup of coffee with your competitor. Now when people think about competition, I'm not even thinking about my competitor, even less to sit down with them. Why do you bring up the idea of sitting down with someone who competes with you?
SPEAKER_01Well, because the other the other guy's thinking the same thing. I want to know what you know and what you know about me. So there's information to be exchanged. And as you really sort of scratch the surface of almost any business. So uh Washington DC is super dysfunctional now, so we won't count Washington DC. But back in the day, Republicans used to sit with Democrats, even if they know they weren't gonna help each other, but there's there might be some little bit of information you have that's gonna help me, and they sort of exchange, and this happens in sort of uh you know, global diplomacy when we still use global diplomacy. Um but there's always a piece of say, like, how far are you willing to go? How far am I willing to go? Each side is always trying to gain an edge, and one of the ways, you know, everyone thinks that they're smarter than the other one, say, but I'm willing to risk a little because I might get some piece of information that's gonna help me sleep at night, be more competitive. And you know, the example I use, if you've seen the movie Heat, where Robert De Niro and Al and Al Pacino sit across from each other, and one's a thief and one's a cop, and they're they're nemesis. But they sit down to sort of gauge how far is this guy willing to go? How far am I allowed to go? And you see this in sports, you see this in so many cases. If you really drill down, great leaders, that's what they do. They're willing to sit down with their competitors and um and sort of see what they can gain at the edges.
SPEAKER_00So you talk about a system and a framework that you created to explain and implement the power of relationships. So I'm sure there's somebody out there who's pretty much stuck where he is, whether it's that's in a part in an apartment working virtually, yeah, not talking to a lot of people, but finding a little bit of power in the concept of relationships. And basically, you talk about CARPA, C-A-R-P-E, and you start, it's an acronym that starts with the word connect. So you say the first thing to do, and we're gonna go through every single one of these five. First thing to do is the word C, the letter C, which means connect. Yes. What is that in a practical world?
SPEAKER_01Well, I'll before I get into that, if I can, I I realized you know, somewhere along the way when I reflected back on my career, that you know, all the best things that happened to me were done because of other people, because of relationship. And the things that didn't work out is because some you know, something that broke down in a relationship or just relationships that I didn't have in place. And I looked back on my career and I had all this success, and I've continued to you know to be fortunate and have you know success. Uh and as I started to talk to others, I realized, well, I have this superpower that maybe others don't have. How do I go about teaching this? And I would hear the breakdowns of, oh, my business is doing great, but I'm arguing with my partners, or my business is going great, but my team drives me crazy. Or just different things that they weren't addressing uh within their world, and which you know, I talk about sort of these different arenas and that a leader has to address. So I came up with this Carpe framework uh to teach it and sort of like let's break it down because it's not about networking, it's not about being the most charming in the room, it's about relating to the other person. And I said the first one is you have to connect. You can't, if I come in here and I just say, Hey, did you see the Miami Dolphins game? And you don't care about American football, or you weren't around on Sunday, or you're focused on something else, we're never gonna have you know that that point of connection. So I think you know, you really want to start of why is this person even going to want to uh you know spend time with me?
SPEAKER_00So connect means finding something in common with the person that can drive to a more casual conversation. Would that make sense? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01What will this person give me the benefit? I I need to get the benefit of the doubt with this person that they don't start trusting me, but that they start opening the door uh towards a path of trust.
SPEAKER_00So how do you connect? Do you find things in common, you research? How do you typically find success in connecting?
SPEAKER_01Well, so there's a bunch of different ways. So uh one in particular is if you don't know the person, uh, you know, the best way is to uh you know a warm referral. It's you know, I you know, I I think I know you know there's this guy, Jack, that I think you know, and um, you know, connection by the way, I I like I really I've known Jack for 20 years, and Jack, oh that Jack's actually my cousin. And um and you and you really see if there's some way, and and even you know, when you and I first met, we were able to put together these 15, 16 different people that without me telling you anything about myself or you to, I'm like, ah, if he's friends with these people and they know each other that way, I I I'm willing to sort of extend my hand and sort of and spend time.
SPEAKER_00Because I could possibly trust this person more than a complete stranger. That's right. You're trying to find things in common and people in common that allows you to connect with someone at a more humored level, human level. And then you talk about, you know, we're talking about car pay, and the second letter is A for a line.
SPEAKER_01Yes. So a line is uh there has to be so even if we connect and we have people in common, or you or you remember that um, you know, I I like the Los Angeles Dodgers, and we talk about the Los Angeles Dodgers, or I like you know, certain movies, and you remember that? And I'm like, oh, this guy remembers, and and um, and he was listening when I was talking. There's there's gotta be an alignment, there's gotta be a reason that we're actually, you know, in this case we're really talking about business, there's gotta be a reason that we're doing, you know, that we're actually gonna meet and spend time together. Um, you know, what are my goals? What you know, what are your goals? What are my values? What are your values? We may have just different values that may never align. So if you never have that alignment, you're not gonna get anywhere. If if if I want to paint the building red and you're an insistent on painting it blue, and and we're never gonna change our mind, then you know perhaps we just move on or find another way to handle the problem.
SPEAKER_00Now, the third letter is the letter R, and that is for respond. And you say stay proactive. What does that mean uh in in a day-to-day basis?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so the it's important uh respond is uh uh contradictory to react. And so what I say is is don't react. You know, when and um a lot of people it's you know a problem will come to them, an opportunity will come to them, and they'll just move without thinking. They'll they'll either get emotional or uh do something without having a game planned. Um and so to me, uh respond is really about being you know thoughtful and uh and being deliberate about what you what you go back with, whether it's a proposal, an offer, you know what um if you reach out to me uh my response should be you know uh that I respond in a certain amount of time, that that there's a a a timeliness to that there's um that that again there's something that's appropriate. You don't want to propose, hey, let's go to Las Vegas and go to the casino and spend a ton of the money and fly back on a private jet. You want to respond with something that's appropriate. Let's I understand your budget if it's a business opportunity, uh, let's meet for coffee, let's get the right people in the room that uh are appropriate.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so we're going through carpet and we found connect as a first letter, align for the second letter, respond and stay proactive. And then there's prioritize. So I'm trying to build a relationship with anyone, whether it's to help me with a business, whether it's to partner up or to get some advice or find a mentor. What do you mean by prioritizing?
SPEAKER_01So this is arguably the most important and the hardest to go about because we can talk about building relationships and you can go out and be thoughtful and connect with people and have the right responses and say um, but you can't do it all. You can't do it all at the exact same time, and you really need to take a step back and think about well, what are the goals that I have either for this project or for my life long term, um, or what's critical in my life and business right now. And so you have to set a series of priorities. Um, you know, I I saw this in in my business where I had teams and be involved in community, and I was on the board of different companies, uh, you know, different clients. I I couldn't be there for everybody. So I had to set what are you know what are the most important issues in my company either this quarter or this year or where I want to be over the next three to five years. And I would start to really map out those those um those relationships. And so when I tell people this, certain people love this idea and they jump on it. When I tell this to people, and my wife is present, she gets really upset because I said, I have a spreadsheet of my friends, and I said, and there's I hate to say it, there's an A list and a B list and a C list, and the A list is a very short list. And these are the people Hold on, hold on.
SPEAKER_00You have a spreadsheet of your friendships, the important relationships categorized with an A, B, and C.
SPEAKER_01And D and E and F and G. And and I I think about I do. No way. And so the A-list, there's four to five people there that they call me, they call me right now. I'm walking out, I'm going to meet them. There's there's a list that whatever they say, and this happened to me last week. One person that's on the A-list, I was flying in from out of town, I was on the runway at MIA, and he texts me and he's like, uh, can you meet for drinks? I text my wife and said, I'm not going home with my luggage, I'm going to Coral Gables to meet this person. Because I knew that if he was calling me, it was about something really, really important. Um and there's that very short list. And then I have another list that these are people I want to watch out for, you know, uh reach out to, watch out for. They call me. It's gonna be a really important list. I want to make sure that over the course of a year that I'm spending time with them. So I have some friends on on that list, and we're all we're all going to Kansas City in two weeks uh to meet because it's important for us to spend time together. And when that was in the middle of the country, these particular people were uh are spread out from all over the country, and that was a place where we can all get be direct, and one of them was definitely gonna be there. Um, but I do you know categorize that both with um well with with the important relationships in in my life, but that are both you know part of uh the personal and the professional. You know, one example you know I've given is uh when my son was in third grade, he had this amazing teacher, his name is Mr. Cooper, amazing guy. And I knew that that year in my son's life, the most important male role model in his life wasn't gonna be me, and it wasn't gonna be my dad, and it wasn't gonna be my brother, it was Mr. Cooper. Mr. Cooper was gonna spend more time with my son than I was for the next nine months. That's just the way it was gonna be. They were gonna be together eight hours a day. And so I said, Mr. Cooper is one of the most important people in my life because he's gonna be around my son. I want to get to know him, I want him to know that I'm here, that I'm an engaged, active father. And we built a relationship. I mean to this day, I mean, literally, he'll see me on the street and he'll say hi. And one of the ways that sort of that this resonated and why I continue to sort of incorporate this process in my life is at the end of that school year, my son had an incredible experience. I thought the world of Mr. Cooper, my son really flourished in the classroom. Uh at the end of the year, Mr. Cooper said, Mr. Real, Mr. Eol, I need to talk to you. I want I want to run something by you. And I my son was doing great, I didn't think there was an issue. And he goes, uh, I'm applying for a leadership program in North Carolina. I need a letter of recommendation. I'd be honored if you gave me the letter of recommendation. I wrote it within. And I went to my office, typed it up, sent to him. Like, if this isn't good enough, I'll make it even better. But the indication to me was the feedback I received was that relationship was where the other side is paying attention. And I was doing the right things of not commanding and controlling, saying, here's my son, this is what you need to do. But I see you as a human being. You're important in my son's life, and I'm acknowledging that. And you're important in my life, and I'm going to support you in any way. And I think if you're thoughtful about, and you know, whether it's your banker, your lawyer, your spouse, uh, your in-laws, uh, the people in your community, if you're really thoughtful about it and you prioritize, because you can't do it for everybody, you really prioritize what are the important things in that quarter, that year, that month, who are the people I need and what can I do to make my what's really important to me, really important to them.
SPEAKER_00Wow. I mean, the prioritizing is just fascinating. The way you do it with a spreadsheet. This is the first one that I've, you know, I've never heard anybody forget a spreadsheet of the relationships. And and you're gonna forget you're gonna forget.
SPEAKER_01And I go and I'll be like, oh, I haven't talked to this person in a while. I thought, and I'll reach out to them, how it's going on. Because we don't do that enough as human beings. Reach out to be like, what's up? What's going on?
SPEAKER_00And that takes us to letter E, which is evaluate, which seems to be the process that you go through when you open that spreadsheet. So you reshuffle the spreadsheet.
SPEAKER_01There are people that have moved from A to B and B to C and D. And then they would so I use the example of Mr. Cooper, incredible guy. He's no longer on the A, you know, because my kids aren't in school with him. Um there are people at uh Apollo Bank, my board members are really, really important to me professionally. And now they're just friends. And so they're they've moved somewhere else on that map. You know, it's what well actually is a physical uh or a digital spreadsheet, but it's also in my head. Like, who are the people I need to reach out, who reach out to? Who are the people that can help me through this issue? Um, who are the people that I just want involved in my life long term that they know that I'm here for them?
SPEAKER_00So I find it to be fascinating that somebody values relationships at such a level. I've always been a big believer in in relationships. I just feel that you take it to the next level and you almost make it sound, in my opinion, like this is a survival mechanism in this world. Yes. Is that how much you believe in relationships?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I I uh from the the dawn of man uh we've we've survived because of relationships. You know, we we form as tribe, you know, so we we love the idea of the lone range. Well, even the lone ranger wasn't alone, right? He had uh Tonto and he worked with uh you know the local sheriff, and um you can't go it alone. And so that's why, you know, as human beings, we've you know we came together as tribes or as villages or as communities or as countries, uh, you can't go it alone. And I think to be thoughtful about it and to have a process, uh, you know, for me I feel that's my superpower. I think if others are thoughtful about this, about this and think about it and learn from you know what I've laid out, um, it can become your superpower.
SPEAKER_00So if somebody picks up a copy of It's All About Relationships, which is available in Amazon and everywhere books that are sold, it says Mastering the Art of Relational Leadership. What would you want the main takeaway to be for someone that finishes this book?
SPEAKER_01So if you're a business person, I'd say even throughout life, but it's really a business book, it's a leadership book that I used to think that business was all about strategy and finance and execution. But what I've really learned is it it's about managing relationships, getting things done through others, and that besides it's the best way to lead, it's the best way to accomplish your goals, it's the only way to get through life.
SPEAKER_00You know, we always like to wrap it up on this podcast with a question that is going to take us to 100 years from now. Yeah. And we're going to imagine that we're there. We're going to pretend like Google still exists, that they survived the whole AI stage. And somebody Googles your name. Somebody Googles Eddie Ariola. What would you like those top 10 results to say about you in general?
SPEAKER_01So the top, so I live my life not worrying about legacy or thinking about legacy or doing something for someone a hundred years from now. Um, I do things for my present me, my kids, my family. So I'll say 100 years from now, my what my you know, um my kids are sharing with you know with their grandchildren. I'd like for them to say that I was a thoughtful person, that I was that I was caring, that I really cared about relationships, that I was about one-on-one human interaction, and that every you know, people talk about leaving you know the world a better place than than when they came in. I'm about I want to leave you know every single conversation better off. I want someone to say that was that was a positive experience. I learned something, or that person heard me, that person being me, that Eddie heard me, um, and that there was a there was a connection.
SPEAKER_00Connection, relationships, helping each other. You know, one of the things that I that I value the most about the conversation uh we've been having is is the fact that you have humanized the the concept of a banker. Yeah. I believe that you have humanized business through your work and through your book. And I'm very grateful uh to have had you on the podcast today because it's a good reminder that we can make money while caring about others. Yes. And it's been a good reminder that people out there are there to help. Because I think the concern of the younger generations is that the people that don't help and the people that are selfish can be so loud that we tend to see the world as a world that is not going to help us. And what I have learned through this conversation with you, through doing this podcast, through reaching out to you while we didn't even know each other, and having you here today is that 99% of people are willing to help, are willing to show up, and that as you well say in your book, it's all about relationships. Okay, it's been wonderful. Thank you so much. Thank you. We put very serious work into every guest, every question, every episode, and we give it all for free. Now, one thing keeps this show alive, and it's you subscribing. It takes two seconds, it costs you nothing, and it's the only reason we get to keep making it.