Overcoming Midlife Stagnation with Jennifer Griffith

Episode 041 — Overcoming Grief & Midlife Stagnation with Jennifer Griffith

Midlife can feel like a strange in-between—on paper, you’ve built a life… but inside, something feels stalled. In this episode of Overcoming Anything, host Anne Vryonides sits down with Jennifer Griffith to talk about the grief that often lives underneath midlife stagnation: grief for old identities, old dreams, old versions of yourself—and the quiet fear that it might be “too late” to begin again. Jennifer offers a grounded, hopeful path forward: reinvention isn’t a dramatic overhaul—it’s often an inside-out return to the parts of you that got buried under responsibility.

Jennifer Griffith is the author of Both Sides of Then, host of the About Your Mother podcast, and a former tech sales leader who now speaks on reinvention, resilience, and creating a meaningful second act. She shares the personal tools that helped her move through resistance, loosen the grip of old narratives, and become what she calls a “midlife yesser”—someone who finally starts saying yes to herself.

Key Takeaways
• Reinvention doesn’t have to be big—it’s often a quiet, inside-out shift into a truer part of yourself
• Resistance is a clue: when you’re resisting something, it usually means it matters
• The story you must rewrite first is the one you tell yourself about who you are

Timestamps
• 00:00 — Introduction: midlife stagnation and the grief underneath it
• 02:10 — Jennifer’s grounding mantra: “I’m still here”
• 06:00 — Reinvention reframed: not outside-in, but inside-out
• 10:00 — Becoming a “midlife yesser”: why your “why” makes the yes easier
• 15:00 — Resistance means it matters: leaning into discomfort instead of avoiding it
• 20:00 — Leaving a successful identity: how to step away from validation and still trust yourself
• 24:30 — Community vs silos: why reinvention needs support and shared courage
• 29:00 — How to find what you want (when you’ve spent years being “responsible”)
• 33:00 — A practical tool: reviewing your photos to find what truly made you happy
• 38:00 — “I’m too old” fears: how to shift the lens and find proof that midlife reinvention is real
• 44:00 — Grief for the old self: honoring what was without calling it wasted
• 49:00 — Patience + the “bamboo season”: staying consistent before the breakthrough
• 54:00 — Mentors, networking, and curiosity: finding the people who can expand your next chapter
• 58:00 — Jennifer’s reinvention framework in progress: lens, narrative, and self-identity
• 01:03:00 — The truth to remember: you haven’t accessed it yet
• 01:06:00 — Final takeaway: if you’re not making mistakes, you’re not taking on enough

Connect with Jennifer Griffith
• Jennifer’s: Website | Instagram | Pinterest
• Book: Both Sides of Then by Jennifer Griffith,  https://a.co/d/02kZmLrp
• Podcast: About Your Mother, https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/about-your-mother/id1522701752

Resources
• Eat Pray Love by Elizabeth Gilbert, https://a.co/d/06xYv0uY
• Committed by Elizabeth Gilbert, https://a.co/d/0bG877el
• Southern women writers who shaped Jennifer’s voice and lens: Maya Angelou, Kate Chopin
• Mel Robbins’ annual reflection PDF (mentioned in the episode), https://www.melrobbins.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/01/BestYearWorkbook2026.pdf

If this episode helped you, share it with a woman who feels stuck, a friend quietly questioning her next chapter, or someone who needs permission to say yes to herself again. I’ll see you next time on Overcoming Anything.
 ❤️ Anne

Disclaimer
The content of this episode is for informational and inspirational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional therapy, diagnosis, legal, or medical care.

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Transcript

Speaker 0:00

Welcome to Overcoming Anything, the podcast where we dive deep into stories of resilience, transformation, and growth. I'm your host Anne Vryonides, and today we have an incredible guest who has overcome midlife stagnation. So joining me today is Jennifer Griffith, the author of Both Sides of Then, host of the About Your Mother podcast, and a former tech sales leader who now speaks on reinvention, resilience, and creating a meaningful second act. Welcome to the show, Jennifer.

Speaker 2 0:26

Oh, thank you, Anne. So nice to see you.

Speaker 0:28

Thank you. So before we dive in, I always love to ask, what's one quote or mantra that keeps you going during tough times?

Speaker 2 0:35

Oh, what an interesting, good question. A mantra is actually from my mom, and- Wow because she had such a complicated childhood, and it's really not a mantra per se as, as a moment or a thought process because when she was little in the orphanage, she would look down at her feet and say, "I'm still here." And that's what I do to ground myself in moments of you know, just stress or overwhelm or anything, family moments, that can get a little hair- I just look down and I ground myself and I say to myself, "I'm still here." Yeah. Yeah. And it, there's just, and there, for me there's so much tied to that, 'cause it's my mom and her story and the connection to her story and all of that. But yeah, I'm still here.

Speaker 1:14

Yeah, I like that. And,

Speaker 2 1:15

and I think that's what we're gonna talk about with midlife reinvention is that, I think at midlife we can feel stagnated. We can feel like we can't restart in some ways, that we're stuck in what we've been doing for so long, and I think reminding yourself, I'm still here," and that you can still move forward in any direction you wanna go. Obviously it's, it has to be conscious and well thought, but yeah, I'm still here. Still ready to move forward.

Speaker 1:39

Oh my gosh, I love that. I love that so much because, so many times we're overwhelmed by things, and like you said, just grounding yourself in, looking down at your feet. I'm still here for a reason. Even if the wind blows, I'm still grounded. I'm still here moving forward.

Speaker 2 1:53

Yep, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I just saw Tara Westover speak she wrote Educated, one of the top-selling memoirs of all time. I think it sold 9 million copies or something atrocious like that. And it was interesting, she was talking about the story where in school, they had gone on a roof and it was windy, and everybody was freaking out because the wind was subtle, but they were on the roof. And she was fine, and the teacher said, "Why are you fine?" And she said, "Well, because the wind isn't that strong." And so it was her reaction to, 'cause she had been through so much in her life, she wouldn't, didn't react to the height or the wind together, that combination, because she knew that the wind wasn't that strong. She was just simply on a roof. Isn't that interesting? And everybody else had a totally different reaction to it. So anyways, little tangent there.

Speaker 2:35

Such a powerful perspective.

Speaker 2 2:36

Yeah. She's "The wind's not that strong," and they're all, hunkered down, holding onto the roof and thinking that the wind's gonna blow them over, and she's "No, it's just a little subtle wind."

Speaker 2:44

Awesome. Let's talk about reinvention. Yes. So I guess first things first. So, you know, a lot of things can happen in midlife where people go through a divorce, they lose a job or, a health issue or whatever. How does someone dig down deep and find the courage to reinvent themselves?

Speaker 2 3:00

I'm having so much fun talking about this because reinvention is from the Latin word renovare, which means to come upon or find. And for me, when I realized that and made that connection, I thought, oh, reinvention is actually just going into a different part of yourself. I think when we think of reinvention, it has to be so big. It has to be, something that comes from the outside in, where I think reinvention is the inside out. And yes, midlife pushes us in a lot of ways. There's obviously gray divorce is trending. Raising kids is hard. A lot of times people, they're married for a long time and the kids get out of the house, and that changes things for them, or careers. A lot of friends facing career challenges, or locations or financial, or... And then your body's changing. However, I think it's a tremendous opportunity to tap into yourself in a new way and to know that- Actually, exterior things don't have to happen for you to reinvent yourself, and I think that's a very freeing, exciting topic to share and to talk about. Because I do think a lot of us wanna say yes to something new, but we don't. And that's a talk I actually just gave last night about giving yourself a yes, and that's linked to reinvention as well. Cause we're so used to saying no because we've got all these other conflicting things, where I think the second part of life actually has a lot of freedom in it and a lot of opportunity.

Speaker 4:17

So tell us more. How do you become a midlife yesser?

Speaker 2 4:20

A midlife yesser. I think step one, this is what we talked about last night, I did it with another author, is you have to link it to your why. Why do you wanna do something? Why do you wanna take up a new skill? Why do you wanna take better care of yourself? Why do you wanna relook at some of the relationships in your life? And when you connect to your why, the yes becomes easier. And so for me, with one, one example I give is that with my book, here I was leaving a successful tech career and financial security to be creative and not make money. That doesn't seem- very appetizing, does it? But obviously, there was this deeper core thing that I wanted to achieve, and I had to... The whys have e- evolved over time, but the first why was I wanna publish this book for my mom while she's still alive to release her of some of the shame she felt as a young woman, and I want to give this book to my son so that he can read it later in life and know me better. And that was my original why. And then that evolved to, oh, now I have a book, and my why was I wanted to be in a room and there would be a couple hundred people there, and I would stand on stage and I would introduce my mom, and they would give her a standing ovation. And that ended up happening. And so these whys are these markers, these, mile markers in the road of something that you wanna achieve. Does that make sense? And so I think-

Speaker 5:35

Absolutely

Speaker 2 5:35

so when you have that why, then saying yes to the work becomes so much easier. Because there I was imagining, Oh, my gosh, a couple years from now, I'm gonna be in this room and my mom's gonna get a standing ovation, and I'll have achieved that." And that keeps you going. The why is the motivator and the reason to say yes every day, even when things or moments of reinvention get difficult.

Speaker 5:55

That's a very powerful why. And I think you talked about something that also our whys can change because- maybe early in our career, the why is, to give our kids a good college education, or to get that dream house, or the dream vacation. And then, as we evolve and we get older, like you mentioned, putting your mom on stage, wow, I got goosebumps when you said that. Aw, thank you. That is very powerful. She is so lucky to have such an amazing daughter that really- Thank you honors her and wrote a book about her.

Speaker 2 6:25

Thank you. Thank you. And look, It was hard for me to let go of the career. In fact, I left Salesforce after being there for a long time, and still couldn't let it go for a while, and that's part of it, too. And there was this incredible podcast, Seth Godin and Mel Robbins, and when he said, and this is a part of reinvention, too, he said, "When there's resistance to something, that means it matters." So think about that. When you're resisting something, and you're, Oh, I'll put that off till now," or, "I'll do this later," that's because it's really important to you, because you've got all this emotion around it. So that's another thing I say to people as well, is I think sometimes with reinvention, going inside of yourself and pulling something new out, right? It's uncomfortable. It's you resist it because you just stay in the lane that you were in. But lean into that resistance. Lean into that fear and say, "Wait a minute, this is because I'm trying to do something new, and I'm a little uncomfortable." And being uncomfortable is really powerful. It's what we teach our kids or raise our kids to get comfortable with being uncomfortable, right? Isn't that part of the parenting job? That's a, at least with my son, that's a big part of it- Yes is, you know, lean- you know, getting over his fears, whatever they are, public speaking, or talking to a girl, or, you know- Mm-hmm you know, doing, taking this test. That's what we do with our kids, but then we forget to do that for ourselves, right? And I think that's just, that's what keeps us young, and that's why reinvention and- Is so, so important. So important. And especially to reinvent when you've got this fully developed brain and all this experience and maturity. Hopefully. Yeah. Hopefully you have that.

Speaker 7:57

Well, when you said resistance matters, that's a definitely a fresh perspective. Because a lot of times when people meet resistance, they're like, Oh, it's an obstacle. Oh, it's not meant to be. Let me course-correct. Like, this wouldn't be coming up if I was meant to do this." And so we see these roadblocks or these speed bumps as like, Okay, let's veer in a different direction," but you're saying it matters. Keep going.

Speaker 2 8:22

Listen to that.

Speaker 8:23

Keep going.

Speaker 2 8:23

Yes.

Speaker 8:24

Yeah, lean

Speaker 2 8:24

in. Lean in. And I've had the privilege on my podcast recently of interviewing a couple of Olympians, and their whole existence is pushing through resistance, mental resistance, physical resistance. You know, that is like the common theme amongst Olympic athletes is that they would hear no, they would fail so many times, and all those things I listed with the body and the mind, and that's what makes them great, right? That they hit these walls and then they keep pushing through. And I think that's... a really cool part of life and something that we don't talk about enough.

Speaker 8:56

Absolutely. So once you defined your powerful why and you start taking action- Mm-hmm you mentioned that you were also reflecting back about being at Salesforce. So how did you create a new identity and actually step into that? Because sometimes it's really hard when you leave a very successful position. You're like, it's who you are. Like, I close deals, I make money, I get bonus, people acknowledge me, I'm top of the scoreboard. And so to walk away from that and to start writing and not get any feedback or maybe you're not making money right away, how did you deal with that?

Speaker 2 9:29

It was really hard. And it's still hard, and I'm nine, 10 years into this. And obviously I was raising kids and doing other things at the time, so I've been doing this part-time for a long time. And it was really hard because I would make mistakes. I would get so afraid of putting myself out there. However, each baby step I started to realize, oh, I- I'm onto something. And this is another thing that I talk about, pillars of reinvention, is that you have to name it and claim it, and you have to share it with someone. And in the beginning, it was just a couple of people, and now I'm sharing with thousands, as you are, right? Right. But you start small, and you get these little validation points. And what I think a lot of times people do when they're trying to take something new on is they do it in a silo. They do it independently. They do it in their head, and that, you need community around you to support any new step that you're taking. And that becomes something I even talked about this last night, where I said that to a woman. She said, "How did you get started?" And I said, "Well, I just told somebody I wanted to, and then that person supported me," my husband, my biggest fan. Right. And I shared a first chapter, and he said... This is actually very funny if, if you know him. And he goes, Oh, I didn't know you could do this," cause we met in tech, and so we, we had similar parallel careers in a way. Mm-hmm. And, and he said, "Oh, I didn't know you could do this. Why aren't you pursuing this?" And so just these little moments. Now, you know, it was one person, then it became several people, and then it just builds on itself. And so I think sometimes I encourage people, just say it out loud. Claim something that you wanna take on, and that, and then the people who wanna support you will show up, and it gets more comfortable over time. But I did it, to answer your question directly, I stayed alone in it for way too long. Way, way too long.

Speaker 11:12

So if someone doesn't have a partner who's their biggest fan- how do you suggest that someone goes and finds that supportive community? Any suggestions?

Speaker 2 11:20

Oh, for sure. I think that's the beauty. There's a lot of downside of what our world is right now with social media and the internet and all that. But I think that's the beauty of what we have now, is that the connectiveness to people that you wanna be connected to or that you wanna follow or that you wanna be in their world, you can find them pretty quickly, right? So for writing, it's easy for me to say take a class. Go take a class. But I think with anything, there's classes everywhere. And just find those... Find who's 5 or 10 years ahead of you, and be in their realm.

Speaker 11:50

Great. Fantastic. Yeah. So how do people figure out what they want if they've spent years doing, practical or responsible things that they were, quote-unquote, expected to do"?

Speaker 2 12:01

Mm-hmm. How do they find... it's in them, I just had someone, a neighbor, come up and say that, someone in their family wants to write, has never mentioned it to me, right? Mm-hmm. It's a very in- internal thing. But I think first you have to have that conversation with yourself. Journaling- You know, what's a pang or something that you wanna get better at, and start writing that, those things down. Because the writing of your subconscious will lead you in a certain direction. And even if you do it from a gratitude journal or whatever way in, you get comfortable with what that subconscious voice is telling you, because it always just starts with a whisper, always. And then you have to lean into that whisper and then explore it.

Speaker 12:38

I like that. So are there any ways that you suggest that people tap into the whisper? Let's say someone doesn't... They're not really into meditation or writing. Are there any other- Yeah forms that you would suggest?

Speaker 2 12:49

I think that's a really good question. So those are the things that work for me, obviously. But, I'll give you one. Mel Robbins does a great... I'm a big Mel fan. Some people, you know, love her. Some people are like, "Okay, enough, Mel." But what she does have is every New Year, she has a booklet that she sends out, and you go through all of y- H- have you done this? It's amazing. No, I haven't. You go through... Oh, it's so easy. Mel is doing things that are easy- and she's making them gigantic, good for her. But it's this, every year, you can get it on our website, it's this PDF, and you download it, and you go through your phone, and you look at all of your pictures by month, and you write down these wonderful moments. And so even just looking at your pictures and going, I was really happy there. What was going on?" And then you write the things that were working well for you and not working well, and just doing those types of exercises is almost like sifting through your life. And what ends up coming up for a lot of people is they're not most happy when they're at work or, there's some, there's other things that they're doing in their life that they're probably not giving enough time to that they really enjoy. And so that would be a good place to start.

Speaker 13:47

Oh, I love that. What a great idea. I'll see if I can get that and link it down in show notes for

Speaker 2 13:52

everyone. Oh, you should. And it's really easy. It takes, an hour. Our whole family does it together each year, and it's just a really good way to reflect back and say, Oh, this is how I'm spending my time, and this is how I want to spend my time."

Speaker 14:03

Mm-hmm. So if you have, let's say a woman in midlife and she's feeling" Oh, I'm too old. I'm too established in what I'm doing. I don't have current skills. I'm not good with social media. AI is coming. I'm scared of AI. I don't wanna do that." And they have... I know we talked about resistance, that it only means that it matters, but how do they tame those demons in their head of disbelief where they're feeling like they can't do it?

Speaker 2 14:27

Yeah. I always say two things there. When you're resisting and you feel like you're too much in this frame of mind, this is something someone told me decades ago, change, a little part of your routine. Don't go to the same coffee shop. Just start making these little... like, drive to work a different way. See different friends on the weekend. Just make these little subtle shifts that can really, really help. And then, the other thing is I think you have to write a letter to yourself about where you wanna be in 10 years. What do you wanna be doing, And this is my hope for you, and that can be a really good exercise, too. But I think, and remembering, for instance, one of the things that I talk about is, sometimes some of the greatest books were written by people in their 50s. And fashion designers don't get their starts until 40s or 50s. It... You have to... And you can Google this. Don't resist AI, but say- Give me all the people," go into AI and say, "Give me all the people that reinvented themselves in midlife." There's so many. Wow. Right?

Speaker 15:18

Yeah.

Speaker 2 15:18

There's so many. And that what I'm saying there is, change that lens. If you, if that's what you're telling yourself, then look outside the world and say, "Well, wait a minute, who's someone who did something in midlife and totally changed their story?" And you can rewrite that at any time.

Speaker 15:32

Yeah. I always think of, what was it, Colonel Sanders who started Kentucky Fried Chicken. Wasn't he, like, 80 when he started-

Speaker 2 15:38

Yeah

Speaker 15:38

KFC? It was, he was, like, way up there.

Speaker 2 15:40

Yeah, and there's that, w- we tell ourselves these narratives that we just sometimes have to undo, and that's the real work, is why we tell ourselves no. Why am I telling myself I can't do something? Now, of course, are you gonna be, go become an Olympian at y- 50? No. But you can go do Olympic workouts, you know? You could go, whatever it is. I, there's a way in, is my point, to anything, there is a way in.

Speaker 16:03

Absolutely. So how do you honor the grief of leaving behind an old identity and not seeing your past as wasted or wrong or, I shouldn't have done that"?

Speaker 2 16:13

Oh, that's a really good one. That's a juicy one. Yeah. Certainly there are times where I think, If I had stayed at Salesforce, where would my career be now?" Where, monetarily, my position. But, when I think about it, I think, At least I had it."

Speaker 16:28

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 16:28

And that comes from that place of gratitude versus the empty cup. At least I had it. And quite frankly, people that I worked with at Salesforce are super supportive of what I'm doing now, and it's 10 years later. So I think there, you have to know that the full circle's coming on something. If you leave something, what you get in return. But I also just look at, back at that with so much gratitude. Cause it afforded me the position to say I give myself 10 years to have, to become a successful author and podcast host, and I could only say that because I had that career before. So they're building on each other, if that makes sense. I think it's just a perspective that you have to shift versus an ache of, Oh, gosh, I would now be this title, and we'd be making this much money, and I could've bought those Jimmy Choos." Yeah. I think you have to look at what it gave you versus what you lost. I think that's really important.

Speaker 17:16

So if you're able to hold onto the gratitude for the old identity and the career that you had, and you're in the process of planting the seeds in the new chapter-

Speaker 2 17:26

Mm-hmm

Speaker 17:26

and, there's no growth, it's like the bamboo that has taken seven years before it shoots up, how do you suggest that people stay patient waiting for their manifestations, waiting for that new growth to come in?

Speaker 2 17:39

Yes. Well, that's a tough one. So two things on that. The waiting can be hard. Absolutely. But the... Whoo, it can be real hard. However, layering the two questions together, the one before and this one, the first thing I want to say is I never thought that technology sales would make me a better writer and that the two careers were linked. They are. I, it's the same concept of pitching and hearing no and waiting for a yes and having to be, to your point, incredibly patient, and I would... I'm purpose-built for that because of the career I had before. I know that you have to get 10 nos to get to a yes. Mm-hmm. And so that would be one way to look at it. But then also you have to know that all good things take a really long time.

Speaker 18:18

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 18:19

And having that patience is really, really important. But also, if you start something, and you realize, Oh, that's not the path, I want to do something else," adaptability is just as important as well. But you have to give it time, whatever it is, especially creative endeavors and looking for success in creativity, it takes a long time. All these stories of these instant bestsellers and all of that, I get really jealous, I'm gonna be honest. But, you know, the stranger, she wrote a great book. It's great. I'm reading it right now. It's a really good book. However, she came from a world where she had this tremendous support behind her. You know, her, I think it was her grandfather, was the founder of CBS, right? Mm-hmm. So you don't, you also don't want to mark yourself against these Cinderella stories where someone makes it immediately. Most of us are in it for a really long time.

Speaker 19:02

Yeah, I

Speaker 2 19:02

agree. Creativity-wise, right? Don't you agree? Absolutely. Yeah, so you read these headlines and this clickbait, and you're like, Oh, it should've been like this for me." Nah, I don't buy that, right? Anything worth anything takes a long time.

Speaker 19:13

Yeah, I absolutely do not buy an overnight success. It may, be perceived as overnight success because people can't really see all those seeds they planted, all that work they were doing behind the scenes because they weren't posting it on social media. Exactly. So I think that makes a big difference. And going back to what you said before about sales, oh my gosh, I think everyone should work in sales at some point in their life. That is the most transferrable skill that pays dividends in every aspect of your life, whether you're selling yourself to, a new partner, or you're selling yourself to your kids. "This is why you need to do something." Your spouse, why you wanna go on vacation where you wanna go and not where they wanna go, let alone in business and everything else,

Speaker 2 19:53

it's so true. Yeah. Were you in sales too? Yeah.

Speaker 19:55

Yes.

Speaker 2 19:55

Yes. You know, it's, these are life skills because you're learning about people and how to listen and engage and be genuinely curious, and, connect what you're doing in a sales team to what they're, what's keeping them up at night. So I agree with you 1000%, every person should go in sales. And work in a restaurant.

Speaker 20:11

Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 2 20:12

And by the way, these two things are not going anywhere. AI is not gonna take either one of those things.

Speaker 20:16

Yeah. Well, you never know, a robot could be, like, rolling out the food on a platter. You never know.

Speaker 2 20:21

Oh. Hopefully. I do s- I, I see that and I just, ugh.

Speaker 20:24

Yeah.

Speaker 2 20:24

Right? It's so gross.

Speaker 20:25

Yeah.

Speaker 2 20:26

Human connection. Yeah.

Speaker 20:27

So if someone knows they wanna make change but they don't know where to start, do you advise that they get a mentor? I know you said find someone who's, 10 years ahead of you.

Speaker 2 20:36

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 20:36

So do you think they should invest or just test it out, or what's your recommendation?

Speaker 2 20:41

Yeah. Especially when I talk to people in writing, you do have to invest in yourself. It's a startup., So there's the math there. Invest in yourself, whatever you can afford. I think there's really great people out there producing incredible content that's really accessible financially, even Mel with her template that she does, obviously to get your email so that you're, the millions of people that are on her subscriber list. But, that template can really change your perspective. So there's a lot of really affordable solutions out there, but I do say yes, find a mentor. If you know someone who is doing what you wanna do and they are 5 or 10 years ahead of you, just go interview them. Go talk to them, and keep doing that. Just follow your curiosity. Invest in yourself. And I think sometimes as women we have a hard time doing that. That came out of my talk last night. Where it's, we're so used to taking care of everybody around us that we don't wanna take the time to step back and invest in ourselves. I think that's a common theme among women. Certainly men too, but in a different way. But yeah, invest in yourself for sure. Get a book that talks about it. Whatever your medium is- Podcasts, books, y- one-to-one connection, classes at a local library or something, or a master class online, all of those things can give you ingredients where you can move forward. There's so much content out there today. It's overwhelming.

Speaker 21:56

Yes.

Speaker 2 21:56

But it's also really cool.

Speaker 21:57

Yeah, absolutely. I would also probably add to that networking too. Yeah. Just face-to-face and finding someone, and, "Hey, can I pick your brain, and can I take you to coffee?" And just really kind of downloading their expertise.

Speaker 2 22:10

Absolutely. And by the way, people like talking about themselves.

Speaker 22:13

Yeah.

Speaker 2 22:13

Let's be real.

Speaker 22:14

Absolutely,

Speaker 2 22:14

yes. If you're curious to somebody, like, "How did you get there? I'm so amazed by what you've done. Can I take you to coffee?" Most people are gonna say yes.

Speaker 22:21

Yeah. Actually, you just said the most important word, curious. People are so scared of networking, and I think the key to networking is curiosity. So people always walk in a room, and they're like, Oh my gosh, what do I say to that person? I'm afraid to go up to them," and blah, blah, blah. And they make it all about them. But if you go up, and you just, Oh, hey, I like your outfit. Where'd you get that?" Or you just get curious about life- then that just takes down the walls of networking, and you're just able to really just learn about them.

Speaker 2 22:48

I love that, Anne. It's so true. And I think we've lost that a little bit. It seems like everybody feels like they should push information versus extract information from people. And if, so if you just ask a couple of questions, there you go, right? Right. Then you're connecting, and then you can ask more questions. And curiosity really opens doors to so much.

Speaker 23:07

I'm very, process-oriented, so I have a question for you. So do you have, a reinvention framework that you talk about, in your speeches or whatever in terms of, okay, here are, like, the three steps, five steps you go through to reinvent yourself?

Speaker 2 23:21

That is such a good question because that's what I'm developing now. Thank you for asking.

Speaker 23:25

Oh. We can't wait till it officially rolls out then.

Speaker 2 23:28

It'll officially roll out, but I can share with you the concept of it, and I'm fine-tuning it and, oh my goodness, is this a lot of work to create these speeches and frameworks and things like that, but really fun. But for me, it's lens. It's relooking at- your story. Often the stories that are told about us aren't true. The stories we tell ourselves about ourselves, the stories that we let other people share about us, and so what I encourage people is to look at yourself in a new lens, to look at maybe your career or where you wanna go in the next year, and take a situation and look at it, evaluate it from both sides, cause that's what I did in my book. I looked at my mom, my relationship with my mom from her side and my side, and came out with a different perspective, and now we have a different relationship. And then, redo that narrative. Redo the narrative that you're telling yourself about your own life, and then, and then set that path forward. So although that's very loose, that's what I'm working on, and it's, not fully baked or formatted, as you can tell, but it is something that can hold a lot of freedom and a lot of access to something new if you redo your narrative. And oftentimes the most important narrative you have to redo is the story you're telling yourself about who you are.

Speaker 24:38

Yes. Oh, wow. Yes.

Speaker 2 24:40

Right?

Speaker 24:40

Say that a- say that again one more time. Okay. I think the listeners need to hear that.

Speaker 2 24:44

I know, and I think you need to send it to me so I can use it in the framework that I'm putting together.

Speaker 24:48

I will.

Speaker 2 24:49

Sometimes it just comes out of me and I don't even realize what I said. But oftentimes the narrative that we have to redo is the one that we tell ourselves about who we are.

Speaker 24:58

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 24:58

And I have this very... And I'll give you an example. I have this very group, a great group of girls that I've known since we were four. There's five of us.

Speaker 25:06

Oh, wow.

Speaker 2 25:07

Imagine the narratives that we validate for each other based on having known each other for 50 years, right? Almost 50 years. And sometimes when I'm around them I think, Oh, I'm falling into that story again," but that's not who I am anymore. My heart is the same. But that's not what I'm about anymore. And so that narrative we tell ourselves then gets validated by people around us, people we work with, our spouses, and our friends, and I think we sometimes feel contained in that, and so we have to rewrite our story internally. And that's how you can open the door to reinvention. For me, that's how I think you can.

Speaker 25:41

Yeah, I love that. And I guess it also validates why you should have new people coming into your life, because if the people around you are still holding you to the old version of you, that old identity- That's okay. Maybe you don't wanna walk away from them. No. But keep bringing in new ones so there's different levels and you're supported where you're at now.

Speaker 2 26:01

Exactly. And it's not letting go of something or not being genuine or authentic or all those, catchy phrases. But it's more, like you said, having new experiences, meeting new people, and just continuing getting to that earlier thing I said about I'm still here and your feet moving forward. Mm-hmm. Right? And it's not getting rid of people and blowing up your life in a many ways, but it's sometimes blowing up the narrative that you've told yourself about who you are. Poof. And that, yeah. Poof, right? Yeah. So- 'Cause we... Oh, sorry. No. But we say things, we tell ourselves stories that keep us safe and that feel comfortable, and yeah, that's where you have to lean into the discomfort.

Speaker 26:35

So what has this journey taught you about self-trust and becoming the woman who can actually hold and create a new chapter?

Speaker 2 26:42

Oof. That's a really good one. I was challenged a lot in my young life and in my 20s, and it took me a long time to love myself and to care for myself, and I'm still working on that. But when I did do that work, I realized that I could do anything, truly. When I overcame those experiences and I took them and I, put them in a different lens and said, Oh, no, I'm actually empowered by all of that." And I often say trauma is about transformation. Trauma gets so much attention these days. Mm-hmm. And everybody has some, but t- trauma to me is about transforming yourself. And so when you're overcoming things or, trying to heal from something, you're, what you're really doing is empowering yourself with your own story. And the people that I find completely compelling are the ones that stand up and say, These are the bad things that have happened to me, and this is what I did with it." This is how I used it for strength and purpose and a message, that I love those people. Right?

Speaker 27:38

Yes. I love that too. I,

Speaker 2 27:40

I love those people. I think they're amazing, and I think that's, shout-out number four to Mel Robbins, but I think that's something that she has done really well, is to say, I was broke. I had no career. I was having three Manhattans every night. My husband and I were almost bankrupt." Now look at her. Absolutely. But she leaned into that redoing of her story and who she was to the world, but first, who she was to herself.

Speaker 28:00

Yes. Yes. I know, that's what my whole podcast is about, overcoming anything. Because- Yes we all hit those challenges in life, and sometimes you may have people around you that support you, they can help you, they can work through things for you, and other times you don't. You could be surrounded by people and no one gets it, no one understands, no one's there for you. And so just to hear a story that someone else made it through whatever you're going through gives you that hope, I can do this, too." Um-

Speaker 2 28:28

Absolutely. And people get comfortable... i'm certainly the f- people I'm close to in my life, I'm sure I see them one way and they want me to see them a different way, I'm sure. And so I think that, to your point, is about opening up and curiosity and having conversations with lots of different people.

Speaker 28:43

Yes. So I always love leaving listeners with something tangible that they can carry with them. Cool. So is there a book, other than your own, that helped you? No.

Speaker 2 28:50

There's no other book in the world. Everybody should buy my book. I'm trying to catch up with her. The woman that wrote The Stranger. Yeah. I'm just

Speaker 28:58

kidding. No, that's funny. No one's ever said that before. Is there a book that helped you on your journey that you could recommend, to listeners to help them reinvent themselves?

Speaker 2 29:08

Oh, wow. Yeah, so many. But at different stages of my life. I think Eat Pray Love was really important to me at that time. Mm-hmm. That, and certainly her, Elizabeth Gilbert's second book, Committed, but now her books are not where I wanna go. I don't know if you've been following what's going on in her life now, but I'm like, "Okay, Liz, you're going that way. I'm gonna stay where I am." It's not necessarily a book per se, but it was a genre of writers, and it was, female Southern writers. Maya Angelou, Kate Chopin. Th- that was the first time that I saw women being, a woman's voice being the center of the room, where I was a English major and I had a lot of, had to read a lot of men. Melville and Hemingway and Joseph Conrad, and I was like, Oh, where's me in all of this?" And so I think more so than not just a book, it was a series of books, but it was the voice that I wanted to hear, and that's what I'm gonna say to the listeners, is find someone who has the voice that is going to resonate with you.

Speaker 30:06

Great advice. So for the woman listening who feels like she has, so much in her life but doesn't know how to access it, so what is one truth that you want her to remember today?

Speaker 2 30:16

That she hasn't accessed it yet?

Speaker 30:17

Yeah. Cause you said- It's- everything's within them

Speaker 2 30:20

everything's, so it's what Sugar said, the talent is within you, the skills can be learned. We are all born insanely talented to do many, many things. And you have to realize that even if you haven't started something, you can. Yes. And that the skills can be learned. And the idea is not perfection. And I will leave you with this one thing that that I say quite a bit, is if you're not making mistakes, you're not taking on enough.

Speaker 30:46

Yes.

Speaker 2 30:46

You have to be making mistakes. A- and we get so afraid of that. Why are we afraid of making mistakes? Obviously there's some that we would regret, but that just means you're trying, and that you're leaning into that fear of something unknown or new. But isn't that where the fun is?

Speaker 31:02

Yes. Well, I think a lot of people equate mistakes to failure, and so they're afraid to make a mistake because then they're afraid they're gonna fail, and they don't want it, that feeling of failure because that means something to whate- them growing up. They couldn't fail, or if they failed and they got, an F on the report card, then their parents spanked them or whatever. And so I think that's a lot of times why people shy away from, making mistakes. But I always think of Sarah Blakely. She talks about when she was younger and she'd go to the dinner table, her dad would ask her, What did you fail at this week?" Like, he was curious. He wanted her to fail. Like, fail forward.

Speaker 2 31:41

Oh, I love that.

Speaker 31:41

And so I think it's, shifting the mistakes. That's just my perspective there.

Speaker 2 31:45

Oh, absolutely. By the way, love her.

Speaker 31:47

Yeah.

Speaker 2 31:48

She's amazing. She's my favorite follow. I love her, and I think that is so great. And I'll say two things on that topic, as, that one, the grades are rough. I deal with it my son, who has low executive function, so the grades don't always t- tell the right story. Mm-hmm. And we have to undo that. And I certainly run into issues, when his grades come in. I'm like, Drake, what's going on there?" So I think it's a really good point. I think we're getting there, but it, I certainly have work to do in that area as well. And Michael Jordan would say, he said, "The reason that I succeed is because I'm willing to fail." And if you look at athletes, they fail a lot. They miss shots a lot. Who was the famous tennis player who gave, the valedictorian speech, and he said, The numbers on tennis..." Federer gave that wonderful s- speech, and he said the he said, "I fail and I lose more matches than I win." And- exactly. And so I think to your point that having that, "What did you fail at today?" I think start there. I'm gonna add that to our family dinner conversation.

Speaker 32:44

I love it. It's not mine, it's Sarah's, so

Speaker 2 32:47

We'll give her credit. Oh, love her- Yes for so many reasons. Thank you, Sarah.

Speaker 32:50

Likewise. Wow. This has been such a powerful conversation. Thank you for sharing so many quotes, tools, ideas. Mel, Robbins, I'm gonna link her New Year's PDF down below so everyone- Oh, do can access that. Yeah. So Jennifer, thank you for reminding us that midlife is not the end of the story. It can be the beginning of the most honest and meaningful chapter of our lives. So thank you so much.

Speaker 2 33:13

You just gave me chills saying that. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Oh. You're such a great conversationalist, and we just go... I love the places we go. It's awesome.

Speaker 33:20

Yeah. Likewise. It's been so much fun. So if you enjoyed this episode of Overcoming Anything, please share it, 'cause someone may need to hear this message of hope and inspiration to get through this chapter of midlife. We'll see you next time. Thank you.