Welcome to Pub and Porch, Applied Stoicism in Modern Life, hosted by Adam Peercy and Mick Mulroy. Welcome back to Pub and Porch, Applied Stoicism. I'm your host, Adam Pearcy, with my co-host Mick Mulroy. Today we wanted to talk about um something that's I think near and dear to our hearts and why we started this podcast, which is the future of Stoicism. It's uh it's always easy in these podcasts to talk about the past, which is great, to talk about what's happening right now. But ultimately, you know, you have to have a goal, you have to have a direction that you're moving. Um, I usually like when I talk to mentees in my mentorships, uh, I like to use the word trajectory. Um and Mick and I wanted to talk about this today to uh get out there how we feel and also give others in the community a chance to chime in, hopefully as well. So, Mick, what are your first thoughts on the future of Stoicism? Where where it is, where it's going, where you'd like it to go.
SPEAKER_00Well, to start with, and I like the way you intro this it's one thing just to talk about people that lived a long time ago and the concepts that they developed, which have carried through throughout Western civilization and beyond for thousands of years, which is awesome. And it's one of the reasons why I was so fascinated in this even as a kid in Remain.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, we're history nerds.
SPEAKER_00It's yeah, history nerds, right? And we all come from somewhere. If you don't appreciate history, generally you don't know where you're going. Um that's in general, not just stoicism. So that's I think super important, and I we won't give up on the concept of continuously drawing on the history of the philosophy we follow. But I don't think we should view it as frozen in time. I don't think we should ever view it as dogma in the sense that it's this is what's written, don't add to it. You can't you can't do it better, uh, and there's no like evolution, it's not a living document kind of thing. I think everything's the opposite. I think you know your past, learn your past, uh, you figure out how it can help currently, which we try to do. That's why this is applied stoicism. But then what's the next phase? Right? So would and and I obviously I'm not the one that's gonna decide that, but I hope to contribute, uh, we contribute to that. Um but people who adhere to Stoicism should all, I hope, want to contribute. It's not just reading uh Seneca and Epictetus and obviously Aurelius, it's not just um being able to quote their quotes.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah, I think you know, one big thing for for us for sure is I don't get the sense that either of us ever really thought about like we'd like we'd like to see Roman values return. Right. Um interest and and I know that sounds that sort of feels like a joke, but ultimately I think, you know, the the historical texts are super important because that's that's the basis for everything else. But I think, you know, um we we've had some jokes back and forth about how there's that meme going around about how white white men think about Rome way too much, right? Like every day. Yeah, like every day. Honestly, I I do, but it's because I'm doing research for a later episode coming up about um the about constitutions. But um yeah, so I think that's real. But at the same time, I think you know, you and I I've always gotten the sense that you and I sort of think about it in a modern sense. So my first my first thing that I would say I would hope would happen with this is I would hope that people do embrace some of the more modern writers even more than we already have. So, you know, um friends of the podcast include Massimo Piliucci and Donald Robertson and uh Chris Gill and um other members of of a movement that originally was started out of the UK called modern stoicism, right? And it's interesting, uh you know, I would like to see people take the classical texts, but as well as take modern versions of the modern writers and use those, you know, as they go forward, because I think it's important to look at these things with a modern lens. Like it's it's easy to talk about how in in Epictetus' world, right, slavery was normal. And it was very different than it was in, say, you know, antebellum, South United States, for example. But at the same time, the word still says slave, it still has to be interpreted. And so I think you know, using those modern writers as a lens to show you know how it looks today, I think is very important. So, but yeah, it it you know, I really don't get ever get the sense that we want we want Rome to return. It's more just like we want values that have had uh you know a long-standing tradition of doing good things we'd like to see probably resonate more.
SPEAKER_00So totally and and so the thought we were talking about this before the podcast episode. What I would promote, yeah, in addition to the well, one thing to quickly address, you know, sometimes you hear people say, Oh, these people are just trying to make money on stoicism. Um, okay, well, everybody has to earn a living, but I think everybody just mentioned uh, you know, Donald, um the whole group that we are tied with, modern stoic movement, Chris Gill. Uh also I would add um the Aurelius Foundation is is also uh um a really big deal for me, and I'm part of it. Uh Justin, great guy. Uh Brian Holiday been on his podcast. I think he's really pushing um the new generation of stoics. I think it's all great. You know, the fact that they sell their book and make a living, I mean it's like, yeah, so what? What's I mean? That's that's good. Yeah. Uh so I maybe I shouldn't even address it, but uh, they do so you do hear that every once in a while. But my my uh if it makes you feel better, me and Adam make no money off of this podcast. Not intentionally. Not intentionally.
SPEAKER_01I think it's the other way around.
SPEAKER_00Um yeah. But we would if we could. So that's my point. But um as far as the future, the future, I think if you look at the foundational document, if you look at Zeno's Republic, which was obviously an answer to Plato's Republic, it set up the idea of an ideal society. And yes, even today it would be really advanced, and in some senses Pollyanish in the sense of like it's we're probably never gonna get there, but maybe that was his point, is to try to aspire us to be to a place that uh is just so advanced that you know it's a kind of sci-fi novel, even today. Maybe not today, but certainly back then. But what I did do think it promoted was the idea of a universal movement based on uh the virtue principles. Yeah, I think you could have a political movement and it would be completely in line with that concept, the idea of the universal citizen.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Now, also, like we were talking about before, I don't think, and I yeah, I love to hear people uh with alternative views or dissimilar views, uh, I don't think it could be a political party. And the reason why is political parties almost immediately have to take positions on each uh on each uh uh issue, right? Yeah, you're on the left, I'm on the right. We could easily both be in a uh political stoic movement. We could the idea that I think is you bring people who share the same principles, who consider themselves adherents to this philosophy or stoics, but you one could go in in the political system in the US, one could be a Republican, an independent, or Democrat.
SPEAKER_02Right, right?
SPEAKER_00And the same with your political system, but you could still be in the same political movement that promotes the idea of wisdom and justice and courage and self-reliant discipline or temperance.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, that can promote the search for knowledge through science and and and everything that goes with that advances humanity, it believes in equality, which isn't a left, right, or center thing. Everything that was originated in this one, which is why we follow it, originated with Zeno's Republic, um could be the basis for a political movement. And then from that movement, if you decide to either join a party or run for office, then you could be both. You could be in the stoic political movement and in the conservative party or liberal party in Canada. You could be in the world, right?
SPEAKER_01No, and I and I totally get that. And I think that's I think that's a really good way to look at it, right? Like you and I have had this conversation about stoicism not as a political movement for a long time. And I think, you know, what what I would say is more like stoicism as a belief system, which is is a key belief system for me and you know for you as well, um, is the movement, and then the political party is essentially the interpretation of that, right? So if if all if all Stoics, right, believe in Hierocles concentric circles, which talks about your how much you control or don't control, right? So there's yourself, and the next circle out is like your immediate family, and your next circle out is like your immediate friends, and your next circle out is your neighbors, and da-da-da. And you go from there. Like if all Stoics in the world believe that, right, then they would believe that we should take the chance to take care of those that fall within our circles to some degree, right? So the only the difference I would see with that would be the interpretation of that. So, like a someone on the left, I'll say left on the spectrum, um, someone on the left might be looking at greater social programs, right? Socialized medicine, socialized health care, because then you can care for yourself and your family and your neighbors and the your neighbors that aren't even your neighbors because they're in another province or state in your country. Um, while someone on the right might say, well, we we want to help people more by, you know, I if if you're a conservative, lowercase c conservative, right? They might say, I I'm a small government person, but I want to have, you know, a strong private sector that gives people good jobs and good insurance and good this. So, you know, they're both different essential, you know, they're essentially both different ways of interpreting that idea of caring for those within your concentric circles, right? They're just different, but they come from a same base value. I hope I've interpreted that right, but that's how I kind of see this, right? It's not a political movement, it's a belief system, right? And then you go from there in the same way that, you know, people who believe I can't think of anything good off the top of my head, but like, you know, there's a lot of people who believe the same thing and it comes down to their interpretation of it. And I think that's that's probably what what how I see that is going forward. If we as long as we reach a key common ground, right, it just becomes the differences of degree with how to deal with that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Uh so the reason why I'm calling it a political movement, because that the intent for me would be to would be to influence politics.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Doesn't mean that you can't be left, right, or center, as I just said, but the influence is the principles of stoicism. Right. So I think, I mean, especially Stoics would say, what if we looked at whatever legislature we had in our country and said, I can see stoicism throughout this.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00And that party and that party and the no people part, the no party people. I think we'd be better off. See what I mean? So the idea behind it would be we're not gonna have like a platform and say what we think about abortion, for example, or uh taxes high, low, or medium, or uh it that's what the political parties do. A political movement for stoicism would say, we're gonna field candidates that have those principles.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00Without telling them, because who are we to tell anybody, but what they think about any individual issue. That's up to you. And then you go and you run for office and you win or lose uh as uh whatever uh you are, but you're also part of the political movement of stoicism, and it could be universal. Um, it's also not tied to a specific country, it'll probably be mostly confined to democracies because I don't see this really working in an autocracy, but I don't think they'd be too keen on that. But certainly it could also promote democracies. That would be one of the other big things it could could do. Um so you know, it's not like we we we had a uh seminar and came up with all the all the details of this, uh or or or whether we completely agree with it, but that's what I'm throwing down. That the next the future of the stoic movement should look for impact and influence. It's not just a bunch of people who like to think about Rome too much, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um fall into that category. It's it's uh we want to in the next generation. So there's I think for the folks that are already reached the age of majority, this would be a good thing. For those that aren't, um a stoic movement can also have a big impact on education for the next generation, right? It could be a twofer. Uh yeah, just precisely to promote the ideals and the concepts that stoicism is always engendered through uh public service, public uh office, and education.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah. And and you know, applying what we, you know, what stoics view as social responsibility, right? Or duty, um, we know with those persons. And you're basically you're not picking candidates because they wear a certain color, you're picking a candidate because they embody a value that is important to you. So pi pivoting a bit, right, from the political sphere. I I do think stoicism, excuse me, I do think stoicism has a social aspect to it that I would really like to see come back to the fore, which is like um, and we were talking about this on an earlier podcast we were recording about how like um socializing is seemingly decreasing now. You sort of stay at home in the box and whatnot. And you know, this is one of those ones where I'd actually would like to see it be, you know, much more like how it originally started, where um like there aren't stoas everywhere, right? I mean, it's a covered porch though, so they kind of are everywhere, but ultimately I would like to see, you know, us return to this sort of more social aspect of discussion. Um that is something I would love to see this movement um start to promote again, right? Where, you know, from the political discussion we were just having, right? Where under the same porch roof we have left wingers, right wingers, centrists, right, all across the spectrum there to discuss these values and their interpretations of it. Because then we get we get better because we're our views are challenged. We're learning, which is the wisdoms to side, but also we have courage to stand up against um oppressive or in inappropriate or incorrect information presented in those worlds. And there were times where it did kind of come back, like in the time of like the Enlightenment, right? There was the the salon, right? You'd have, you know, and the and the salons like that, right? I'm sure you know the names you think of are like Diderot or Rousseau or um, you know, uh I'm trying to think of somebody else, but let's go with those two. Ultimately, um, though I think I think that's what I would like to see come out of this. You know, you and I have joked, I I think you've joked about this with me. I don't know if I've ever said this out loud, but like this is kind of therapy, right? Like we get to this is our this is our stoic, this is part of our stoic practice. And I would love to see that kind of be the case, right? Like maybe it becomes maybe it becomes a regular stoic group that meets once a week. Maybe it's becoming more just being open to having these salons, but I would like to see that take shape again and make sure that these salons are open door, big umbrellas for everybody, right? Men, women, um, members of all all across the community, right? LGBTQ, everything. And it should be a safe place for all to voice their opinions, have their conversations, and um, you know, exchange free ideas. And so that's that's what I would say.
SPEAKER_00Right here on this podcast, I super dig that idea, the Stoa. And what is a modern day common man's version of a salon, a salon?
SPEAKER_01Uh you're gonna you're gonna say it's a pub. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00I'm with you.
SPEAKER_01I'm totally with you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we don't even have to create anything, we can just go meet at a pub or whatever you prefer to call it, and that's and start this movement. Why not? And I like the other part of what you said a lot, because this doesn't happen anymore, and it used to. I was just reading an article on uh Ronald Reagan and Tip O'Neill, which you might not know as a Canadian, but uh obviously Ronald Reagan was the president, Tip O'Neill was the Speaker of the House, Reagan and O'Neill. Tip O'Neill was a Democrat. They used to go get a pub or a pint at the pub, literally, yeah. Uh like every weekend together. Right. Now, yes, they had common ethnic heritage, uh Irish, of course. Um, but that but everybody talks the Irish. It is, it is, but I'm not trying to make this an Irish thing.
SPEAKER_01But I get it.
SPEAKER_00I mean, people always talk about that relationship as it was almost like just unbelievable.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00And I don't think it was. I think at one time, eh, yeah, you're Republican. I mean, I'm just using the US, uh, but you're you're conservative, I'm liberal, whatever. Um, we can still hang out and have a beer, and it's not like now, but that's not the case anymore. It's almost like you're the enemy, right? So the other thing this could do is break down those barriers a bit. Like you have commonality. So in their in their tip in Ronnie's commonality was their ethnic heritage, which is very strong, in case you haven't noticed, uh, in that group of Americans.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But you could also have the same kind of thing with people who are both stoics but don't share the same political beliefs. They could still understand they have a commonality and then have a civil conversation and appreciate the other person's side, even if they don't agree with it. But that's not where politics is going nowadays.
SPEAKER_01No, it's so polarized now.
SPEAKER_00It's so polarized, they won't listen to each other, there's no discussion, it turns into a shatter match almost immediately. So, in addition to bringing the characteristics of stoicism into um public life, it can also help people understand the other's perspective and not just treat it like a sports event where the other team could do no right, your team could do no wrong, the call's always bad if it was against you, you know, that kind of stuff. There's no actually, you make a good point. Uh actually, you know, I never thought about it that way because I'm yeah, I'm in a vortex that only talks about it from one perspective. Yeah, these pubs uh could be that ability to do that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And I think, you know, like you know, the polarization is very clearly seen where um I will say, like on the calendar of events, recently the State of the Union happened in the United States, right? And you know, when certain things are said, some people clap and the other ones specifically don't, even if it's something that I think would have been originally kind of universal. And that to me, that to me kind of shows that we're already kind of losing this battle, right? It's like, well, you know, your tie is a different color than mine, so therefore I don't agree with you, right? And I d I don't know. I just I feel like that's something we're losing right now. What I would say though, too, right, is like is a lot of people say, well, well, these events are happening now. Like uh Ryan Holiday had a tour back in the fall, right? And um uh I saw him here in Toronto, was great. Um, and you know, you have other things like that where you get um you know, you get people talking about it. But I think one thing about Stoicism for me as well, just as like an extrapolation of this idea of the more social aspect, is that Stoicism really started as a street philosophy, is sort of how it's been described, right? Like so there's the Xeno and Hieracles and you know, all of those persons, and they're excellent, but you know, Zeno himself did not want Stoicism to be a um uh uh uh a philosophy of uh what is the word? It's described in Ryan Holiday's Lives of the Stoics. It's a there's a word, a philosophy of celebrity, I guess is how you would call it.
SPEAKER_00Like there is a time where called a personality, yeah, called a personality, yeah.
SPEAKER_01They were gonna call it Xenoism, Xenoins, right? And then specifically they didn't do that. So what I would like to see is I would like to see sort of more of a response like responsibility. Taken on by the general populace, right? So, you know, you and I have day jobs. We're not, we don't do this for a living. Um, you know, I work in the space program and you work in um uh uh I can't remember security national security.
SPEAKER_00National security and humanitarian, you know.
SPEAKER_01And humanitarian, right? And you do some journalism work with that. So, but we're not specifically philosophers, is what I'm saying. And, you know, I would love to see this kind of you know build out to a much bigger thing. Because the one thing for sure, right, is like everyone's gonna go, well, we have meetups all the time. Like I was at a barbecue with my neighbors last weekend, but like my whole thing is did you talk about the weather and cars? That's great. But I struggle when I'm at social events because people want to talk about things, and then it's like we're talking about cars and weather and you know, the latest thing show on streaming media, right? Which is great, but at the same time, like I think there's one thing that stoics have the ability to do a lot of time, it's it's do the tough talk and do is just as you said, say, hey, I don't think I agree with that, or say, Oh, that's a really interesting way to put that. And that's what I would like to see happen more on the on the streets as a street philosophy, right? Where you can have the disagreement and it goes okay, and someone can change their mind, right? I think Marcus, that's true wisdom.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's true wisdom is ability to change your mind.
SPEAKER_01Ability to change your mind, ability to change your mind.
SPEAKER_00But but yeah, to your point, it I mean, somebody could say, well, I talked about stoicism at the barbecue. But the idea, at least the way I'm envisioning it, would be yeah, that you have an event at, you know, whatever, pub or diner or whatever, um, about this. It's not just one of the topics, right? I can't obviously can't get people to do what they don't want to do, but that's where I think the future of stoicism should be. It should it should take the past with it, but it should look at the future for how it can influence it. And I think that is through education, that is through uh service, which doesn't have to be in a public office, and public office, because ultimately that's what affects everybody. So when you pass a law, it affects society. So that's why I'm focused on that. Um, you could either do it as a group that uh promotes people into office that share the characteristics, I would say that actually are adherence to it, uh not just find people who are like courageous, um, and then promote them and promote them collectively. Yeah, because that's how that's how people get to you know get into public office, is other people support it. Now I just saw brought up Ryan, I just saw last night my old boss, Secretary Mattis, General Mattis, with Riot Holiday on uh PBS.
SPEAKER_01PBS, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Margaret Over.
SPEAKER_01Firing line, right?
SPEAKER_00He's back, which is great. But like he's an example of a of a modern stoic, right? Right that most people know, right? And I had the privilege to work for. And he exemplifies it, I think, uh perfectly. Now he probably won't want to run for office, which is why we want him to run for office. It's like George Washington scenario.
SPEAKER_01Umatus, yes.
SPEAKER_00So there's gonna be that a bit of that, you know. So uh you know, you the people that you most want to run for office are gonna be the most hesitant, probably. Yeah. But if you promote, if they if they start looking at it as service and not some kind of self-aggrandisement, which is many people that go into politics look at it. It's like I'm gonna go promote myself and then I'm gonna go, I don't know, uh make money of it somehow. Uh, but if you find the right people in the stoic movement that you think would do it for selfless service, like I think, and I'm not uh you know, he might call me and say, stop promoting me if for uh running for office. But I'm just saying that he would be the person, an example of a person that I think to run for office because of his history of self-sacrifice service and his humility. Um but I think that's another thing it could do.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It could find those those individuals and let them know that there's a whole group behind them that are her, let's actively seek uh uh you know, to have uh females in this uh mix uh to run for office because we believe that they would be the best representation of the stoic political movement.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah. Now I think it's really important though that we also pivot a little bit here to talk about what's going on right now and how we want it to grow because you know Mick and I both have worked, we've both uh worked Stoicons before or other stoic conferences online, right? Like, and I should highlight um uh Brittany Polat and Phil Yanov who have been you know working stoic conferences online. I mean, Stoicon is a very common um world event that people are aware of and work. I mean, Donald Robertson and Ryan Holliday and everybody like that has spoken at those events. Um and I don't think you and I are discounting those events at all. In fact, we want those events to go on more. I guess it's more just like for me, the social aspect of this, I would like to see in addition to that once-a-year event, I'd love to see it be something that's like weekly or at least more regular so that it becomes a common part of our parlance, right? Like because Stoic Week is excellent. We always want to promote the Stoic Week activity because it's just a great thing that we can do. But at the same time, um when you're really in the into uh philosophy like this, you start to realize that it's kind of it's a 52-week practice, you know what I mean? Like you're doing it all year round every day. It it helps shape the decisions we make and the directions we go. And that's all I would wanted to make sure that we threw out there. Stoicon events are great. In fact, I spoke, I co-hosted a stoic care event with Brittany Pollot a few years ago, where we talked about how stoicism as a caring philosophy is a huge part of that. Um, and that was really great. And so all we're saying, all I'm saying is I think we should have those events, and in addition, right, it should be common parlance to be able to talk about these things um with each other.
SPEAKER_00Totally. Maybe we could ask them if we could do a section on a global stoic movement. I mean, I think it's hand and glove, right? It's hand and glove. Sure. Um, the more stoic events and groups, the better.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But uh, you know, I think, you know, for sure, uh, this is something that we also want to hear from the community. Like, as much as there are leaders, Donald, Ryan, Massimo, you, right, for example, who are who are commonly seen as leaders in this. And you do need leaders to help kind of move things along. Um, I think there's the average, average Joe, average Jane stoic, right? That I would love to see uh um, you know, really start to come to the fore here and kind of move this along um in a in a different way and take the responsibility that I think we all have to take. And sort of that's my view on it though. We would love to hear from the group, from the excuse me, we'd love to hear from our fans if we have any. We'd love to hear from the the populace who listens, right? Like, you know, info at pubandporch.com, leave a comment on the video, or uh, I mean any kind of way you can find us on Twitter and things like that. Or excuse me, um X. Sorry, I always I keep doing that. But uh, you know, I think the one thing is is that um Mick and I are, and I'd love to hear your take on this, Mick, but when I think about Mick and I's role, I think of us as one voice that might be just in front of the others, but I would like to see us be one voice among many, many voices that grow as a as a movement, as a you know, eventually it'll reach a crescendo, to use a music term of like sort of coming together in one loud um you know, display of of communication about how how we feel about our values, right? I don't know if that made sense, but what do you think though?
SPEAKER_00Uh that's what I would like to do. That's what I would literally like to be one part of hopefully many that get this going. And you know, five generations from now, um it is part of society universally. That's what I would like to see. And maybe it's a super lofty goal, okay. Uh it's we're not gonna do it by ourselves. So hopefully we we get a lot of people to buy into this and promote it and obviously eventually uh take the the torch and run with it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah. And you know, I I say like it's interesting, right? Because I was I had something happen at work this week where I was swinging for the fences on something, and I'm probably only gonna get at best 60 or 70 percent of what I was asking for um for this this event I was trying to put together. But at some point you just kind of go, well, you gotta aim for the moon, right? At least you'll land among the stars. Like you gotta give it a you have to have the lofty goal to kind of get there. Because uh, you know, it's we don't always get what we want, but sometimes you get what you need. And and in some ways I feel like this is the case. There's so many things pulling on people. We just we just wrapped recording on an episode talking about you know toxic masculinity and what it's doing to young men or even all men, for example, you know, hearing this I'll say junk that kind of gets thrown around out there. So if we want this to grow, if you want it to be informing what's gonna happen in the populace, then it's gotta start somewhere. You gotta have a direction you're going. So yeah, we gotta get it going.
SPEAKER_00When's the best day to plan a tree? 20 years ago? When's the second best day? Today. Yeah. So uh let's do it today.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. You can only handle what's now. The past is over, the future hasn't happened. The only time you can take action is now, and I think we're seeing that. Well, though I think that's a good time for us to wrap up. I'll just reiterate what I literally was just saying, though. You know, we'd love to hear from the community on this. You know, leave a comment on the video on YouTube or send us an email at infotpump and porch.com. We've had a couple people start to write in now, which is great. Love to hear from you more. Um, you know, tweet uh not tweet us, whatever it is now called X Us on X, whatever it's called. I'm sorry, I don't remember what it's called. Um, you know, or reach out to us as you can. Um, we really would love to start, you know, keep the conversation rolling on something like this. Um, you know, and uh and see where we can get it to go. Uh as much as we don't want it to be like Rome, it'd be interesting if you know there was an old. Actually, actually, I will say I forgot to say this earlier. There is a they there is a new agora essentially that's been built here in the city I live in, um, which actually technically also has a stoa to it. So who knows? Maybe we'll be uh out on the lake shore under under a under uh under a roof having a conversation one day. No togas, though. I hate tokas, they're really hard to wear. Any closing thoughts from you, Mick?
SPEAKER_00Go find a pub, start the movement, get going, and tell us about it, and we'll we will promote it. If there is a if if you want to do this, that would be fantastic. Uh it could be in a team house, it could be in a pub, it could be in a diner, could be in a coffee house, could be in a tea house, right? Um, trying to hit everybody's, I think group there.
SPEAKER_02It's all good.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's what we want to see. And if it works, it works. And and it's gonna be really beyond our control, but we're we can promote it every episode.
SPEAKER_01Yep, absolutely. Well, thanks for joining us on the podcast this week. Cheers, Mick.
SPEAKER_00Slosha. Thank you for listening to the Puppin' Porch Podcast. If you'd like to find out more about the podcast or its host, head over to puppinporch.com and you can listen to all our episodes on Spotify, Apple, or whichever platform you prefer. And if you'd like to help out with the podcast, you can find us on Patreon. Drop us an email if you have a comment on any past episode, you have a suggestion for future episodes, or you have an essay on an important topic for Stoicism, send it to us, and then we can be reached at info at puppinporch.com. Today's music was provided by BenSound.com. Until next time, puppin' Porch out