Episode 34: James Gravelle | Cracking the Success Vault Podcast with Spectre Group

In Episode 34 of Cracking the Success Vault, Sean Penhale sits down with James Gravelle, Head Coach of the University of Windsor men’s volleyball team, to explore the mindset, leadership, and resilience required to build a winning culture.

James’ journey didn’t follow a straight path.

From aspiring Olympian to championship-level coach, he shares the lessons learned along the way — including a powerful realization that changed everything:

He wasn’t dreaming big enough.

This conversation dives deep into what it really takes to lead, develop talent, and create an environment where people can perform at their highest level — both on and off the court.

In this episode, James and Sean explore:
 • Why dreaming bigger is critical to long-term success
 • Building a strong team culture rooted in trust and accountability
 • Leadership lessons from high-performance sport
 • The role of passion, intrinsic motivation, and discipline
 • Learning from failure and bouncing back stronger
 • The parallels between coaching athletes and leading in business

James also shares how coaching goes far beyond wins and losses — it’s about impacting lives, developing people, and leaving a lasting legacy.

Whether you're an athlete, coach, entrepreneur, or leader, this episode offers powerful insights into mindset, performance, and growth.

🔑 Topics Covered

🏐 High-performance coaching and leadership
🎯 Dreaming bigger and setting ambitious goals
🤝 Building team culture and trust
🧠 Sports psychology and mental resilience
📉 Learning from failure and adversity
📈 Leadership lessons for business and life

⏱ Chapters

00:00 – Dreaming Big and Olympic Aspirations
03:02 – Building Credibility and Relationships
06:14 – Journey into Volleyball
08:58 – Passion, Drive, and Commitment
11:59 – Overcoming Doubts and Fears
15:00 – Reality of Professional Volleyball
18:02 – Learning to Dream Bigger
20:51 – Mentorship and Influence
24:06 – Creating a Winning Culture
27:11 – Leadership and Team Dynamics
30:06 – Coaching Philosophy Evolution
32:59 – Future of the Windsor Program
38:55 – Accountability and Team Standards
40:21 – Integrity and Emotional Intelligence
42:35 – Coaching Styles and Communication
44:34 – Role Definition and Team Structure
47:09 – Learning from Failures
49:11 – Resilience After Loss
52:11 – Handling Pressure
56:27 – Managing Expectations
58:46 – Preparing for the Future
01:01:58 – Impacting Lives Beyond the Game
01:04:32 – Building a Legacy
01:08:43 – Business Lessons from Coaching
01:10:01 – Relationships and Trust
01:12:25 – Composure Under Pressure
01:15:30 – Defining Success

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

What I really wanted was to go to the Olympics. And I just couldn't get there in my own mind. I didn't have the guts to like even dream that out loud in my in my own.

SPEAKER_02 0:09

The opportunity that I want to give him is just like massive. Uh and it's so important that we as parents just not be that person of doubt in our own kids' minds.

SPEAKER_00 0:21

As my friend and mentor John Barrett would say, like when we look across the net, we're looking at ourselves. Right. So if we're disrespectful to our opponent, then we're disrespecting ourselves.

SPEAKER_02 0:38

Today's guest is James Gravell, head coach of the University of Windsor men's volleyball team and one of the most respected coaches in Canadian university sport. Since taking over in 2013, he's transformed the Lancers into a national contender, leading them to multiple OUA medals, national championship appearances, and the best season in program history. A Windsor native and former Lancer himself, James has also coached on the national stage with Team Canada and the FISU Games. With multiple coach of the year honors and a reputation for developing elite talent, he's built a culture of discipline, growth, and consistent excellence. All right, welcome back to another episode of Cracking the Success Fault. Uh today we're joined uh by the head coach of the men's uh volleyball team at the Windsor Lancers, uh James Graveau. James, thank you very much for taking the time to chat with me on the podcast today.

SPEAKER_00 1:26

Wow, this is a real treat for me. So thanks, Sean. Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 1:29

I I appreciate taking the time. Um it was really interesting when we uh chatted last week. Um you mentioned uh something you said uh when I when I asked you to do the podcast, you said uh I can't remember your exact words. You said I I had built up enough credibility with you that you were open to doing this. What did you what did you sort of mean by that?

SPEAKER_00 1:49

I just think that uh over time we get to know people enough where um, you know, we just get to know a little bit more about people over time, just you know, organically. And I think that um, you know, just through our relationship that we've had, that in in the the coins that you've put into the piggy bank, that uh I was more than happy to to join you in and take you up on this offer.

SPEAKER_02 2:11

Yeah, I appreciate that. Um and it's funny, and it's it's interesting you also say that that you sort of the coins in the piggy bank. I think that can relate to whether it's whether it's business, whether it's sports, coaching, you name it, right? I mean, kind of, you know, having to kind of kind of put in your dues, put those coins in uh before expecting, let's say, um anything to come back your way.

SPEAKER_00 2:34

Yeah, it's uh it's so true. And I I just think that that's um that's life. I mean, we we have to give a lot. And I think that um that's a big part of it is just how much we can give. And uh if sometimes we um, you know, we ask for some things, it's a lot easier to ask um when we've given quite a bit. Yeah. I had a a partner who used to say to me, like some he'd get a call from someone who's a real estate lawyer, and he said that someone would call and say, Um, can you do a favor for me and then I'll send you a lot of business? And he said, How about you send me a lot of business first and then ask me for a favor? Right. And it's a lot easier to do it in that order.

SPEAKER_02 3:12

Yeah, 100% agree. Um, and we're gonna talk a lot about things today: sports, business, uh, sales, dreams, coaching. There's lots to talk about. Uh, but I want uh sort of the audience or whoever's listening um to learn a little bit about yourself. So, where did you grow up? Uh, sort of how did you grow up, and what got you into just coaching volleyball at the university in general?

SPEAKER_00 3:37

Sure. Thanks for asking. Um I'm from Windsor, uh born and raised here, um, proud Windsorite, and um the youngest of four. Um, and and I think that shaped uh a lot of who I am. I still feel like the youngest. If I get into a vehicle with my siblings, especially my two older brothers, uh I'll sit in the backseat like every time, regardless of uh, you know, if I'm not in the driver's seat, then I'm I'll I'll sit in the backseat. Um, you know, and so it's uh it's just who I am. But um yeah, I got into um sports at a young age, just uh sports family, sports crazy family, and still, you know, shapes uh who all of all of us are, just a big part of our lives.

SPEAKER_02 4:19

Yeah. And was it was it mainly volleyball? Was it other sports?

SPEAKER_00 4:22

Yeah, volleyball came much later for me. Um I, you know, just the usual um sports, baseball, getting into uh played for South Windsor, um minor baseball, and um then played some little league with Windsor South and got into hockey, played Windsor minor hockey uh from a young age, uh basketball, a lot of school sports as well. So just sampled a lot of different things and um volleyball came like in high school for me.

SPEAKER_02 4:49

Yeah. And the story you told me about that was was interesting because I don't know if it's that many younger siblings in families they look up to that one brother or sister or something like that. Um, but volleyball wasn't really like on your radar uh until your brother was playing at the U, right?

SPEAKER_00 5:09

Right. My oldest brother, David, he um played for the university team in its first year of existence. And so, you know, we would go down, he's eight years older than me, so you know, I was in maybe 11, 12 years old, and we would go down to um the field house at the university, and that was really my ignition point with volleyball. It's probably like 12. And I got to see the team and I got to see he and his friends playing for the Lancers, and I was like, wow, this is incredible! I hadn't even considered trying volleyball until then.

SPEAKER_02 5:39

And then did you go straight into playing at high school?

SPEAKER_00 5:44

No, I was really in love with basketball uh for many years, and that was like a big basketball phase for me into high school, and so a lot of basketball, you know, on the driveways in Windsor, everyone had a basketball in that. We played a ton of basketball with our friends, played on the school teams, including in high school, and was really focused on basketball at that point. Um and got into, you know, I did play uh some football in grade nine, got into volleyball in grade 10. And I think that I was a little intimidated by it just having because my brother was so good at it. And so I was I was good at something else. And so I was playing basketball, and it just uh took me a little bit of time, even though I had some dreams about volleyball and seeing the Lancers play, took me a little bit of time to really embrace that opportunity. So I think I was in grade 10 when I started to actually play volleyball for the first time.

SPEAKER_02 6:34

That's interesting. So you were a lot better at basketball because you've been playing it for quite some time. What went through your head being like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna not play the thing that I'm good at and start doing the thing that I'm not good at?

SPEAKER_00 6:51

Yeah, I think that um just volleyball came um pretty naturally. And I think that the volleyball and basketball, a lot of the skills are similar, the movement patterns and things. And so I just um liked volleyball from an early age because it was fun to hit the ball hard, you know. Like when I say early age, like I was 15 or whatever when I started to try it. And it was it came uh pretty naturally. And so uh it wasn't too difficult to fall in love with because you know, you get to hit the ball hard and have fun with your friends.

SPEAKER_02 7:22

It's it's funny you say that because when I coached Sky when I first moved to Ontario, when I kind of first met you, um, coaching those 14U's and 15 Us, that's all they want to do is they just want to hit it as hard as possible. They don't care where it goes, they don't care about placing it or scoring the point, they're just like, you know, how hard can I hit this ball?

SPEAKER_03 7:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 7:40

Um, it's interesting that you that you do that. And and so you said uh when we talked that you kind of had two different periods of time where you had these like large gaps in call it skill level, and then you just took these like giant leaps. Um, what do you think was sort of the reason for those leaps? Because one you I think you said was like grade 11 through 12, and then there was one kind of in university, right?

SPEAKER_00 8:07

Yeah, it was interesting. I'm not 100% sure what led to it other than like really um immersion, like really going for it and and and playing a lot and not as concerned with um results at that point. I think that um I was part of a team, played on a club team um when I was in my grade 13 year, and so played quite a bit more volleyball than I had been. And um, although I wasn't uh one of the better players um and I was a backup player early on at the university, it was just uh getting my hours in. And so I think that um yeah, it was not like uh that incremental growth. There was like a huge leap there.

SPEAKER_02 8:47

Yeah. And and is that like off-season stuff? Were you playing with like were you playing with David? Were you playing with your friends? Was it like outside of the season you were just doing other things?

SPEAKER_00 8:58

Yeah, it's a good question. I believe um that's when I kind of started playing some beach volleyball with my brother and his friends as well, and just really getting the hours in. So I think it would had a lot to do with that. Um, and then similarly, the second time that I saw that was um, you know, in when I started really focusing on beach volleyball, my early 20s, where just playing a lot and getting more hours in really led to that huge leap in quality.

SPEAKER_02 9:22

And so you went from high school not really being a starter, grade 13, not really being a starter first year university, um, to at the end of your university career being a starter, playing beach volleyball internationally, even. Um, what sort of made all of those things sort of kind of transpire? Was it just the amount of hours you put in? Was it the the dream you had, the goals you had? Like what sort of steps were you like, I'm I'm actually gonna make a run at this?

SPEAKER_00 9:58

I think that a big part of it was is that I just really loved doing it. And so uh first two years in university, I it was still like new and kind of novel, and I just loved it. And even though I wasn't um on the court playing much for the Lancers, uh in second year I played a little bit, but not very much. I just loved it and I it was like newer and I was like really enjoying getting better at my craft, like it was just something that I was really enjoying doing. And then um in third and fourth year, things like really happened uh for me, and uh and um you know I was able to get a lot better and perform on the court, but um yeah, I just really think it was the love of the game.

SPEAKER_02 10:36

Yeah, and and we're gonna talk a little about about this later, but one of the things I hear when you say that is we talked a little bit about sort of recruiting for motivation and drive, not necessarily talent. That sounds like something that you just had. You had that motivation, the excitement, whether it was new or just you loved it, and you could always figure out how to get better. Is that something that was just like I just fell in love with it and so I dove all in?

SPEAKER_00 11:08

Yeah, well, first of all, it's so long ago. But uh, I I I do really believe it was um like when we talk about recruiting and all of that, like talent is like so important, and having like the ability to jump high in this game is gonna trump a lot of things for sure. But it let's just say let's assume that like those things are given. Like we have to have um, it's not height necessarily in this game, but it's like you have to have athleticism, the ability to jump and and move the arm and all that. Without that, it's a very difficult game to play. It probably better suited for something else. But assuming that most of the players who we're looking at for our team have a good physical base, yeah, I think that uh passion is huge. Like that intrinsic motivation is like worth so much. It's it's the thing.

SPEAKER_03 11:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:57

Yeah. I mean, yeah, I mean, I was like that with my swim career, even. You just like I remember like seven years old watching Donovan Bailey win a gold medal, and I was like, I want to try to be an Olympian. And it was just swimming was the thing I was good at. Right. Um, I come from a volleyball family, but I hated other people's mistakes, making me lose when I was a kid. Didn't really learn that till I was older that being part of a team is actually a lot of fun. Um, but I just had that like internal, like, I'm just gonna do whatever it takes, right? Um, and you're and you're 100% right when you're like university, OUA, you know, NCAA, like everyone's got a pretty good level of talent and athleticism. Yeah. And then there's things that like make people go above and beyond. What would you say would be some of those things besides the intrinsic motivation or drive that they might have?

SPEAKER_00 12:48

I think that that is huge. Like if you have to try to talk your kid into going and practicing the sport that you want them to do, I think you're fighting a losing battle and it's never gonna happen. Like it's so I think that the joy of the game and the the passion, the pursuit, but it's also like a competitiveness and someone who really needs to win. Like, if you don't have that burning drive and desire to be the best and to win, then it's really difficult to be a high performance anything.

unknown 13:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:18

Yeah. I mean, that's that drive is what's gonna give you the I'll call it uh fortitude or consistency that when things are going hard, I just gotta keep going. Right. Um let's uh so let's talk a little bit about your your beach career then. So that happened, did it happen uh during university or just after?

SPEAKER_00 13:42

That's when uh during university was when I really started to um think about the possibility of playing beach volleyball seriously. And so um, yeah, started to like play and play for keeps, like you know, entering tournaments where you had to pay to enter and there was like prize money and stuff like that. Not big dollars, but I mean it was it was a high performance type of mindset where it was like we're driving to Grand Bend this weekend, it's gonna cost us this amount of money and we're gonna pay to play. But if we win, then we can you know recoup our cost and then some and some, yeah, you know, that type of thing. So starting to like really try to be better. And this is like what early 2000s? Um, no, it would have been earlier than that. So I graduated from university in '98. So I started to kind of play more seriously in about 96 and um moved out to the summer between my third and fourth year to Vancouver, right near Kitts Beach. And uh, you know, my brother had me at his place for the summer where you know he lived there, my brother David. So we would play. We would just go down to Kitts and play and enter those tournaments, and it was great. We played together, you know. Again, he's eight years older than me. He was an excellent player in his late 20s by then. And so I was really lucky to be able to play with him.

SPEAKER_02 14:52

There's a lot of things you can pick up, and you and you and it's not just picking up from him, it's all the guys that he surrounded himself with. Yes, right. And there's I I always say in business, and I'm sure you would agree, is like you're you're the average of the five people you hang out with the most, yeah, right. So if you're hanging out with five really good players, you're gonna learn some things and you're gonna probably become a sixth really good player. It's true.

SPEAKER_00 15:13

If if you really want it, I think you're right. And I benefited greatly from all of those relationships that he'd established, and it was just easy for me to fall in there and and be able to get those games that you need. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:24

And so what was it like then playing professional volleyball overseas after university and all that kind of stuff?

SPEAKER_00 15:33

It was great in a lot of ways. It's um it's a can be like a lonely uh grind. Like really, it's um a lot of time on tour. It's not like you're in one place. So if you go play professionally indoor, then you get to set up camp and you have a second home in that place, at least for that season. Beach volleyball is a tour, so you're just on the move a lot. Hotels, um, figuring things out when you hit the ground, trying to always like maximize and keep your routine. And um, it was you know, it was difficult from a results perspective because I was playing on the world tour, it's like all the best players, and so um it was hard in a lot of ways, but it was pretty amazing to be able to compete at that level.

SPEAKER_02 16:15

And so I want to talk I want to talk a little bit about dreams for a second, because when we met last week and I was like, you know, if you could go back and do all these things, um the comment you made to me was my dreams were shit.

SPEAKER_03 16:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:31

Um and you and I talked a little bit about why and and what you meant by that, but like explain what you mean by your dreams were shit. I mean, you were you're you're you're playing collegiate volleyball, you're playing professional volleyball, and you still have this mentality years later of I just wasn't dreaming big enough.

SPEAKER_00 16:50

That's it, and that's kind of what encapsulates the whole theme of like what I'm gonna say, which is I didn't dream big enough. So I had dreams that were big. Like relatively, my dreams were good, relative to probably your average person, good dreaming, like good job. But I really think that um I fulfilled my dream, which was to be on the world tour. Problem was like I didn't have a lot of success on the world tour, and so I just didn't think that I dreamt big enough, and I really learned important lessons at that time, which was like you really have to dream bigger, and we can. We can achieve anything, like anything's possible if we're willing and we really want it.

SPEAKER_02 17:34

Yeah, yeah, and when we talked a little bit about that, it was interesting because um I think a lot of people, and I don't know if it's just Windsor or I mean, I experienced it even in Alberta in in Red Deer, like small town. Whether it's that you're from a small town or the people you hang out with or the friends you associate yourself with don't think that those things are reasonable. It almost starts to like put that like I think of it as like sort of a belief lid belief cap, and like the more people you hang out with, it kind of closes, and you have to try to keep it as open as possible to just what are the possibilities that can be, whether that's sports, business, family, money, whatever, right? But that belief lid closing is like it's really difficult to open it back up after it closes. What would you say would be some things if you could go back and sort of I'll I'll call it dream bigger. What would be some of the things that you think you would uh not do or or that you would maybe try to put into place to allow yourself the ability to dream bigger?

SPEAKER_00 18:49

I think it would have been just to talk to some people more about it. It was really a a conversation that I was I wasn't courageous really enough to have with many people at that time. But what I really wanted was to go to the Olympics. And I just couldn't get there in my own mind. I didn't have the guts to like even dream that um out loud in my in my own head, if you follow what I'm saying. Like to even like I would have those like pangs of like, I was like, I like this would be great. I would see that and start to like it would it would just start to bud. And then I would like, I wouldn't allow that to go anywhere in my own mind. I wouldn't allow it to myself to dream that. But I think it would have been great if I had um a better relationship with uh mentors and stuff where I could have like talked a little bit about that and been able to articulate that and let it grow a little bit more.

SPEAKER_02 19:38

Yeah, because it's not something you can just like talk to anybody about. Like most people, you tell them a dream you have, and it's like really like why would you want to do that? Um, or you know, that's a really hard thing to do, only a really small amount of people. Like um, who who do you think you would have maybe had those conversations with?

SPEAKER_00 20:00

I experienced some of that, like what you were what you were expressing there, where there were some who um, you know, tried to put a lid on my dreams for for sure. And um that didn't affect me very much, but it also didn't help. Like correct, you know, so I was able to go through though go through that. But um yeah, I mean, close friends and mentors of mine who were available to me. Like I was hanging out with the right people. I had um good coaching from Olympians in in particular, like John Barrett, who is the uh the indoor coach at the University of Uh Toronto men's, who you know I spoke to this morning. We're still like very close friends. We speak every day. But he was my beach coach, and I never had those conversations with him until I was retired. And you know, um, so it was just some of those things. It was immaturity and like um I was working through it. I was in my 20s.

SPEAKER_02 20:49

So was it was it fear of what he thought uh uh is it was it sorry, was it fear of what you thought he would say? Was it just uh if I speak these things into existence uh or try to speak these things into existence? Um like who am I to think that this is possible for me? Like what made you not want to have those conversations then?

SPEAKER_00 21:16

Yeah, I don't think it got very far in my own mind. Like I really um was happy with the idea of being on the world tour. That was it. Like in my dreaming, my dreaming phase was that seemed to me like, wow, what an outcome it would be if I was on the world tour. Well, like that happened so fast for me. Once I put my mind to that, I got there within a year, and then I was there and I was struggling, and I didn't have anything in place to do better. Like I had to like look at all my processes and deal with a couple injuries. And I was like, uh I'd taken some beats already, but I hadn't dreamed big enough. Right. Like I hadn't got myself to the point where I was able to articulate that I wanted to be the best. I was happy like being a journeyman in my dreaming and not having a lot of success in the world tour. Well, you don't have a long career if you're not doing well.

SPEAKER_02 22:10

Right.

SPEAKER_00 22:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:11

And then and then dreaming is one of those things where like it's uh it's a piece of the puzzle. It's not like you just dream and all of a sudden these things just happen. Right. Right. Like it, but you have to have them to like kind of keep the fire going.

SPEAKER_00 22:27

It's so important. And I think anyone who wants to do great things, you have to kind of like start from the end. Like start from like what is your big goal, and then you can back out how you get there. And like that's what you know we do. We like when we look to create anything, I think. And so having that goal, like for me, it was just to be on the world tour. Yeah, like that was my big dream.

SPEAKER_02 22:53

Yeah. Yeah, I I can relate to that because I I like I think as I got older, a lot of those people kind of crept in, and like, who do I think I am? Why would I be the one to do it? It'd be really cool to go to the Olympics. Like you start kind of like slowly devaluing how much you actually want to achieve the thing. And when we talked a little bit, you said so. I asked you what you thought was more important, sort of the the big goals or the things you have to do every day to get to those big goals. And you made a comment that the two things are like opposite ends of each other. What do you what did you mean by that?

SPEAKER_00 23:36

I just think that when we think about all of the heavy lifting that we're gonna have to do and like what the process would be and stuff, it can affect what our big dream is, like what that big thing is that we're looking to achieve. So when we're thinking about that, don't think about any of the hard part. Like let yourself dream as big as you can when it comes to your goals in any given field. And then like, because I think it's just so easy to stunt that. Like, that's like our system is just built like that.

SPEAKER_02 24:09

From a standpoint of like, I mean, athletics is obviously easy one to use. Like, I want to do this thing, which means I need to be fitter or stronger or jump more or whatever. And in order to do those things, I have to be in the gym an extra hour every day compared to everybody else. And then you're like, but I'm already working so hard, and that seems like a really daunting task, even though my dream is over here. This day-to-day thing seems like just the hardest thing to do.

SPEAKER_00 24:37

Yeah, there's a lot of that. Like when you think about the process things, just to for an example, like um, if you're looking to build a business or build a volleyball program in uh my case, like if I allow all of the things that are reasons why it's difficult for me to build and for us to have the best volleyball program in the country at the University of Windsor, that's a long list of items and it's a trap to fall into as to all the reasons why it's gonna be really hard for that to be the case. But if I just don't worry about those, because I can overcome every one of those, and we as a team can overcome every one of those. But if I look at whatever my goals are and I say, this is something that I want to dream to do, I can't think about all the reasons why it's gonna be difficult for that to happen, regardless of what it is. Like we are gonna be able to achieve all of that together, so I can't worry about all the things we have to overcome.

SPEAKER_02 25:34

Right. And and because of that, you've sort of had this philosophy for quite some time now. Um you took over the program in 2013, uh, and you said that when they first came out with the ranking system out of uh 33 teams in the nation, you guys were 31st out of 33. And this year, uh, which I haven't congratulated you on uh yet on the podcast itself, um, but you guys had your best year ever. Uh fourth at nationals, you hosted, uh it was the first time you got to play for a medal at nationals. Um that process uh obviously took some time, um, building coaching, culture, those kinds of things. Um was that just a process of like, okay, one day it'd be awesome to to host nationals, or one day it would be awesome to win a national championship. Um, and then I'm just not gonna go think about these things and just we're just gonna slowly get there.

SPEAKER_00 26:42

Um, good question. I think that um again, bad dreaming by me, never even dreamt about hosting nationals until um, you know, a few years ago, until we got our new facility, until or or it was close to being completed. Um, thought about a lot of reasons why it would be difficult or why we wouldn't host. And so uh we learned some lessons, the dream big one, it's a little slow for me sometimes. So um yeah, I think that just believing in Windsor and believing in what we have as a community and a school and knowing that um is it was gonna be a slow burn um meant that didn't have to think about all the work that would go into it. Right.

SPEAKER_02 27:25

And so how uh it's funny that you I I don't even know how old you are actually, but roughly 20, you know, call it 25 years ago, right? You're like, man, I didn't dream big enough. And now you're in this new role, you're in a full-time coaching position, and you're still like, man, I like I didn't allow myself to dream big enough. How do you think you can like shorten that between there's probably we always have, I mean, we're human beings, we're going to have doubt creep into our minds, we're gonna have the reasons why we can't, but how do we sh how do we how do we shorten that length of time and shorten the um uh the doubt that's in our minds? How do we shorten that to say, you know, not allow it to be such a long thing that we allow before we're like, yeah, it's been a couple of years and let's just dream. And you're like, I should have just done that three years ago.

SPEAKER_00 28:20

Yeah, it's a lesson that I continue to just personally have to remind myself of. So I don't know for what reason, I don't know what it is, but this is like I've like not dreamt big enough consistently throughout my entire life. And so it's something that um I think that all of us, if we want to achieve great things, should write on the wall or something. Like, and so I've done that, you know, I've got to do that.

SPEAKER_02 28:46

I was just saying, are you a big like uh affirmations person writing on the bathroom mirror with crayon or whatever? Like, are you a big person like that?

SPEAKER_00 28:53

Not as much, like within you know, I share the house with others, including like my wife is not like that at all, where like she is um like really grounded and like she has a lot of that in her, um, and where she's able to articulate those thoughts to herself all the time. And so she works with me on reminding me of that. But I just find that if we want to achieve like great things that maybe it's good to have some reminders around. We it's not that um we have it in our shared spaces, but I've got some reminders, you know, and one of them that I love to to carry with me is just here, which is one of my daughters, you know, cool, maybe this, which is just daddy, like just uh uh a reminder for me. Yeah, you know, yeah, man.

SPEAKER_02 29:37

I mean, I I mean I can I can I I can tell you're getting emotional. And I mean, I you know, I've got a 10 month old at home, and I just keep I keep thinking, like, man, if I could just go back or like when he's old enough, the things that I would love to tell him to do, and obviously I can't be the one to do it for him, but the opportunity that I want to give him is just like massive. Uh and it's so important that we as parents just not be that person of doubt in our own kids' minds, right? Um, and in saying that, we we spoke a little bit about sort of two really sort of tough conversations, or one tough conversation, I think it was you and your dad, uh, and then now you have those tough conversations even with athletes now. What what were some of those tough conversations that you guys had to have when it came to like I'm choosing this thing or I'm gonna go do this thing?

SPEAKER_00 30:32

Yeah, just like articulating dreams to others, kind of on the same type of um vein as that. And so just talking about chasing dreams and being able to articulate that. And so when I was able to articulate like dreams to important people in my life, they've been like, oh, okay, but we've got to get them there, just similar to how we have to have that conversation with ourselves. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:57

Yeah, I mean, dreaming, I mean, we could talk every day, we could take all day about dreaming. Uh, I think it's a super important thing that most people have to learn, but let's talk a little bit about culture. Sure. The culture has obviously changed at Windsor uh in the volleyball program, going from 31st to fourth in the nation. Um what sort of things have you kind of put in place that have allowed you guys to over the last you know decade, just over? Because you were part-time coaching in 13 and full-time in 18. That's right. Yeah, and from 18 to now, it's been a big stride. Um, what kind of things have you guys changed? What kind of things have you and the coaching staff tried to implement? Um, or have you even implemented anything?

SPEAKER_00 31:44

Yeah, it's been this is the beauty of it is that like there's the dreaming part, which is super important, but then it's really about the day-to-day. And so it's just about like winning the day. It's really about making sure that we don't waste any time and making sure that we do our best to um do the next little job that we have to do. And if we can do really well on all of our little jobs in any given day or any given match, any given rally, then we set ourselves up for success.

SPEAKER_02 32:16

Yeah. Yeah. And when it comes to, I mean, I would have loved to have played volleyball at a high level. Um, when it comes to volleyball, I don't really know obviously what practices look like at a high level and stuff like that. Um but are you guys doing like you're you're preparing for every game throughout the week for the people that are coming up? And then next week we're gonna change strategy to the next team we're dealing with. And are you trying to deal with those day-to-day wins on this team we're focusing on these things? And so all week we need to win those things, and then next week it's a whole different variety of things we're working on.

SPEAKER_00 32:59

Mostly uh just based upon the age and the cohort who we're coaching. It's still really a developmental age because volleyball is still like a bit of a later entry sport in Canada, as you know. So um we focus a lot on individual skill building and um just helping everyone to become a really strong volleyball player on our team. We focus on the other team, you know, it we'll look at we'll do a few little system things most weeks uh throughout the week, but really our focus doesn't shift to the opponent who we play Friday, Saturday, wouldn't shift until like Thursday, right? Where we show video before practice and we might, you know, work on a couple little like defensive items that are gonna help us out.

SPEAKER_02 33:37

Other than that, it's taking care of your, as we would say, taking care of our side of the court, right? Uh, because that's the only thing we can really take care of.

SPEAKER_00 33:45

Yes, it's really important for us and and working on skills throughout the season, like we just we do. We work a lot on serving reception, just our offensive execution and um, you know, the digging and setting.

SPEAKER_02 33:56

Yeah. And so has that just become has that become a culture thing that that's what we focused on? And before it wasn't? Has there been more emphasis on it since you've taken over as a full-time role? Um, sort of how do how has that sort of changed?

SPEAKER_00 34:11

Our new facility has been a big game changer because we have multiple courts every day. We used to run our whole program, men's volleyball, women's volleyball at the University of Windsor was run on one court. Wow. And that was really difficult. We found ways to make it work. It you know, you learned a lot about coaching when you have to program for 18 players on one court. Um, it really helps. Your, you know, your classroom and gym management, you know, improves a lot when there's just like safety issues all over the place, balls flying. But um, multiple courts, uh, our coaching staff is bigger. Um, we've put a lot of work into getting better as coaches on our craft as well.

SPEAKER_02 34:49

And how important to you guys, I'll call it front office, I guess, leading from you know, head coach, assistant coaches, and all of that. How important is it for you guys to be leading from the front? Because obviously you're not playing with them, you're not able to get into the match with them. You know, that was 20 years ago, but it's still important for the leadership of the team to be doing things. So, what kind of things are you guys doing that you think you that kind of transitions that the players see?

SPEAKER_00 35:26

From like a coaching practice? Yeah, I think that um there's a huge amount of respect like within our gym for each other, and so everything starts with that. So it from when we walk in the gym, we're being greeted by the players by name, oftentimes either handshaking, etc., and we are greeting the players. Everyone's greeting each other. We have like a start to practice where we all come in. Um, we we meet, we talk about our objectives for the day and really set the right tone. And then, you know, we go and and someone is given the task. They don't know who it is, but right before we start the practice, we're one player is just given the task to like break it down. So that player on the spot has to come up with something that is gonna lead the cheer and focus the group to get into their dynamic warm-up to start doing the thing. So we're all working together um to have a good start to the practice to set the tone, and and it just seems to inform things really well.

SPEAKER_02 36:27

And you change that player every time. How come?

SPEAKER_00 36:31

Just to um well create leadership or like what is it? This is something we haven't spoken much about, but like we don't have a traditional like hierarchy within the team on leadership. There isn't like a set, like Gustavo takes the coin toss and is the person who like talks to the referee.

SPEAKER_02 36:48

That's a figurehead, right?

SPEAKER_00 36:49

But but we don't really have a captain that's not the hierarchy, it might be like we would have captains for different things, so every single player is gonna lead in a different way for us, and we know that. So our hierarchy is not like a pyramid, and we don't have a leadership group on the team who meets separately, like the whole group is the thing all the time, right? And then individual players take leads on different things at different times. That's our kind of our matrix.

SPEAKER_02 37:16

And how have you seen that develop over the over the course of time? I mean, obviously, you could probably put that into even a business sense. Yeah, a business has a hierarchy, but at the same time, I mean, I look at I look at my office, and there's you know, there's seven, eight sales guys. They all have some different roles, they all have different skill sets, they're all at different points in their career. Um like how would you encompass that sort of same mentality off of the court?

SPEAKER_00 37:48

Great question. I just think that our group is of a manageable enough size, being less than 20 people, you know, where um anytime that one person, say we have like a single captain, and then I, as the head coach, have an individual meeting talking about other players or the team with that person, I'm forming like a clique within the team. We don't need that. If I want to talk to the players, we talk to all the players. If it's like a personal item that someone wants to speak to me about and it's something that's private, a hundred percent. But I don't need to speak to the captain to talk to him about guys on the team.

SPEAKER_02 38:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:26

Ever.

SPEAKER_02 38:27

Just talk to everybody on the team, right?

SPEAKER_00 38:29

Or an individual. If there's someone who, you know, um, you know, for whatever reason I need to have a conversation with, I'll talk to them. But a lot of the hierarchies that we're seeing is there's a captain or a captain, then another leadership group, and then we're just creating cliques and subgroups within our really cohesive group. We have a really strong bond among us all. Let's not break that up by creating little subgroups in there.

SPEAKER_02 38:54

So uh, so then how do you then find how do you then deal with like accountability issues? You're obviously dealing with them unless they need to be private, you're dealing with them as a team, right? Calling out somebody in front of everybody, or are you just having like these general, I'll call them fluffy conversations about certain things with everybody, and then everyone's like, Well, I wonder who that guy, like, who did that?

SPEAKER_00 39:24

Right. It depends on the situation, but I mean, a lot of individual conversations will be like just just looking at it like the whole group is like moving down the road. And if like I'm trailing behind, if I see that someone steps off the road, I just like give a little nudge to say, like, hey, you're you gotta get back on track. And the same would go for me. Like, if there's something, if I didn't go in and like greet all the players at the beginning of practice, or if I showed up late or was late to the bus or whatever, it might be able to happen once, but the way that our group works, like, I'm not gonna let that happen because I'm accountable to everyone as well. I can't put myself ahead of the group. And because that's the culture, that means that no one will put themselves before the group. Because the leader, if that's what the head coach is, will not do that and does not um you know put themselves before the group, then no one will do that. Right.

SPEAKER_02 40:21

Yeah. And that can be a lot, I mean, that is transferable into everything, whether it's your family life, whether it's business life, like you have to do your own stuff and take accountability for your own stuff, and you got to be there on time, ready to go. Yes. Cause how do you expect other people to do it if you don't? Um, and I love that. Um, and so I got a couple things here. Sure. Uh, I don't know, I don't know if you knew this or not. I asked a few of the coaches. Oh boy. I did not uh what they thought. Uh I was like, uh, give me give me like a couple sentences on on either what James means to you, how you feel that the program's going, etc. Um so Jimmy says, uh, James is a person of the highest integrity. He leads with personal care, is detail-oriented, considers the individual needs of his athletes, and never wavers from doing the right thing. He sets an incredible example for people around him. Main reason why athletes and coaches alike both respect and admire him. How does that make you feel from a from a from a from a coaching perspective?

SPEAKER_00 41:25

Yeah, that's those are great compliments. I think that uncomfortable like to do that in this setting, but uh that's just don't want to make you cry, but yeah, no.

SPEAKER_02 41:35

Uh there's a few more, so I'm gonna read you a couple others. Sure. No, I mean that's that's great. Uh so Will says um one of Gravel's strengths as a leader is his emotional intelligence, his awareness of the people around him allows him to know when to push and when to listen. By doing this, he often gets the most out of his athletes. He is genuine in his pursuit and wants what's best for those around him. I mean, that's gotta be pretty tough in terms of uh um knowing when to push and when to listen. How do you, as a coach, with all the different dynamics and all the different kids, and they all have different things going on and they have personal lives and school lives and all these things? Um, even for myself, from a from a sales coaching mentorship perspective at the office, how do you decide when when to push someone, when to, you know, be a little softer, you know, when to coach and when to mentor and when to like put the hammer down if you have to?

SPEAKER_00 42:35

Experience. I think that it's become it's become a little bit easier over time, but I think that one of the things that's made it easier is to just listen a bit more in those situations and try to be empathetic, like and really try to put myself in that other person's shoes. That's just been um a bit of a a hack, as my kids would call it.

SPEAKER_02 42:55

Yeah, interesting. And and that comes from obviously the experience, you know, being through it, playing at this level, going through different life things. Um do you find it, do you find it over time? You know obviously which what makes what people tick differently?

SPEAKER_00 43:17

And yeah, I think being a little bit more secure and being more comfortable with yourself, which comes often with age as well. And so not being as concerned with how like things being a personal attack, if I hear or feel that way, I'm able to, I'm a little better at just like taking a breath and thinking about okay, where's this person coming from? And why, like whatever the behaviors are that I'm concerned about in one of our student athletes, like um, why? Like, what are they going through that might lead them to doing what they did or going through what they're going through? Like, how is that um something that um like I can put myself in their shoes?

SPEAKER_02 43:55

Yeah, I mean, listen, coaching is such a it's such a unique, dynamic thing. Trying to lead everybody in the same direction. Um how have you been able to keep? I obviously over the years you've had different players, you've had probably some different coaching staff per se, I guess. I don't I'm trying to think. It's been pretty much the same coaching staff for the last few years at least, for the most part, um, once the addition of Jimmy came on. Um how has it been managing all of these different things so that everybody is moving in the same direction?

SPEAKER_00 44:33

Oh, great question. I think that uh that's also been like a big evolution, especially in the last few years. Um, as our staff has grown a bit, is to try to like be really um clear with role definition. And um it's not as if uh things aren't linked, but having some more ownership with smaller scope for individual coaches. And so Will Alexander, for example, he coaches the setters, he will give me input on other things, including offense-related, a lot of like interpersonal observations and things like that. And he's a sounding board for me on a lot of things, but um he knows that he focuses, so he's watching the setters and really like focusing on the setters in practice, and he doesn't cross-pollinate, he won't get into other areas in in unless he's asked. He just he's watching the setters, he's coaching the setters, and that's it. And so giving the coaches individual roles and being specific on articulating what they are has really helped.

SPEAKER_02 45:31

Yeah. And then how do you, as sort of, I'll call it head maestro, head coach, uh like manage all of that at the same time because you're also having a hand in each one of those things while they they have their own hand in their own thing. How do you oversee all of that at the same time?

SPEAKER_00 45:51

It's uh challenging at times because like regardless of who you are, I think it's like it's still one of those things where you can only do one thing at a time really well. And so it's just about picking and choosing as to like what I'm going to watch on a in a given rally or at a given time, like with any in any drill, I have to also focus on what it is that I'm gonna watch in that drill. If I just sit there and watch the whole thing, I get lost in it.

SPEAKER_02 46:14

Yeah. And so how much how much like bandwidth or how much not bandwidth, how much uh how much rope, I guess, do you give each individual coach on what they shouldn't shouldn't be coaching on? You all do you at the start of the season go, this is what we need to work on? Is it a day by day thing? Is it a week by week thing? Yeah, because it's it's interesting, as my team grows at the office, I'm I'm thinking like there's there's like going to be a sales mentor at a certain point in time, right? There's gonna be that sales lead, there's the admin lead, right? And Jay and I wear so many different hats, but at the same time, you have to be able to give some leeway in decision making to other people, but you also need to make sure that their decision making is also aligned with where you're going at the same time. So, like, how much rope do you decide to give someone?

SPEAKER_00 47:08

Yeah, it's uh it's a great question. I think you really have to trust the people who who you're working with. And so I think that's why it's good to like really qualify people really well before you you let them in the door.

SPEAKER_03 47:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:22

Because it's hard after that. Um, but if you really trust who you're with, and I do think that it's something that we can really help with the coach as well, in our case, focusing and in helping them become even better at what they do by helping them have more of a laser focus. And so oftentimes, if I'm sitting back watching, I'm seeing I'm watching the coaches as well, just to make sure that they're focusing on what they are, and then I'll check in to ask them what they're seeing. And sometimes those check-ins will tell me that they're not paying attention to what they're supposed to, or or I get a nugget like of gold.

SPEAKER_02 47:56

So interesting. Um that yeah, I mean, there's a lot to unpack there. Um, let's talk a little bit about uh sort of some failures. Um plenty. Plenty. So Richard Plenty of failures. We could be here forever. Uh we'll start with one because we talked a little bit about this, and obviously, you know, don't go into as much detail as you told me the first time. Um, but you know, basically have this I won't say undefeated season, but this amazing season this year. Um you lose the OA OUA final against Queens, which was the same team we lost last year against I say we because I'm here. It's hard for me not to cheer sometimes. Um and then you gotta rec recover after five or six days. You're hosting nationals after this big loss. Um what's sort of like going through your mind? What did you tell the what did you tell the boys? What what kind of like how did that whole thing just transpire and like make you feel after this amazing season to just not be able to perform on the one day that you really wanted to? Right, but then at the same time have to come back a week later and like do it all over again on a I'll call it a bigger stage, right?

SPEAKER_00 49:12

Um, well, still going through it, by the way. Um, still, you know, still staring at the still feeling the oh yeah, still still going through it. Different, it's it's just a process. So sometimes it feels even worse. Like there's you know, was staring at the ceiling uh at about 345 this morning, you know, thinking about that match. And so that will that is gonna be something that maybe we never get over. And that's just the the nature of this, and that's what part of what makes it so amazing. So sport is incredible, high performance sport is incredible in that way, is in that it means so much to us, and so it's sometimes the price we have to pay, but um and it makes the and it makes the things when they actually happen, it makes them like 10 times better too. Yes, it definitely should, and it needs to for sure. Um, I think that that week turnaround was like really difficult for the group, but it also helped in that we had other matches. There are some times when you might lose in the quarterfinal season over, yeah, season over, like home team, big favorite losing.

SPEAKER_02 50:14

Toronto was on that was uh a huge upset. I mean, I don't think anyone expected Nipistine to come out and win three straight. And I was at I came home from the match and I got home and I was like, I wonder who how all the other games are going.

SPEAKER_00 50:28

And I was stunned. Yes. So like there was no tomorrow for that team, and there's graduation and stuff, so very difficult. Um to to be able to and have to to pick yourself up and get back on the horse, like it just so happened. Like from personally, I kind of it was one day. So the Saturday that followed was a very difficult day, but by Sunday, the sun was literally out, which made it a lot easier. And it was like, okay, time to turn the page because we have to. So the fact that we had to, and it was like, like you said, we're hosting, it was like a bigger stage. There was no time to feel sorry for ourselves, and so um, you know, just had to turn the page quickly.

SPEAKER_02 51:08

Yeah. And is that something that you just learn over time with experience of other failures? Or obviously, this was a I would say, like being a referee on the line last year with the loss, I was like, okay, yeah, they had a really good season, this kind of sucks. But like this year was just like, how do they not win? Like it was just a different season, different feeling. But to lose to the same team in your own gym again, yeah. Um, is it just something that you just learn to get over? I'm not that sounds terrible. Learn to get over. Uh, it's just something like you learn to deal with uh because of other failures, and you're just like, well, failure's gonna happen. So I guess, or is it like something that every failure hurts differently, stings differently, takes longer, sometimes takes shorter? Like, how does how does that experience in failing help make it easier when things don't go your way?

SPEAKER_00 52:12

Yeah, I think that um in this case this year, it was like we were still alive. We were we were still in a play, but also we were in the deep end of the pool. Like we were hosting and like we had to win on the Friday night, the first round of the tournament. Like if we if the team doesn't win, the home team doesn't win in the quarterfinal, the tournament's not gonna go very well from a lot of perspectives, including financially. So, like we were in the deep end of the pool. So it's hard to feel sorry for yourself when you're still in fight mode fighting for your life. And so that made it easier to turn the pages because we have to refocus, we have to get it together here because on Friday we have to play our best. Yeah, and so that was not easy in some ways, and it took the group like days. It was like by Wednesday, it was like in the coaching is everybody even gonna show up, yeah. It was like we were thinking, like, okay, the like the boy, still, there's like mojo is like gone at this point. We were feeling it still Wednesday, Thursday. We were having practice, and it was like, oh my gosh, like this is not good for tomorrow. But still trying to do all the the right things and say all the right things so that um the group wasn't gonna feel that coming from us and me, like that was never gonna happen. And so um, yeah, it was just we could feel it. The boys were really affected by that loss in the OUA final, but to their credit, the fact that um, you know, they that group of players in that room was able to come together and play the way that they did against uh Montreal on the Friday was pretty so uh yeah, let's talk a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_02 53:50

So you're down two nothing, you come back to win in five in your home gym. The crowd was insane.

SPEAKER_03 53:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:58

Um, I was linesing the next game and I was like at home watching, and I'm like, ah, they're down two nothing. I don't know. They're winning, but I guess I should on my way to the gym to referee just in case it ends in three. And I get there, and you know, you take it to five, you win. It's exciting. I mean, did the energy continue to grow? Like, was it just like okay, that first set didn't go our way? But there was some really like again when I'm refereeing, I'm when I'm refereeing, I'm not really paying attention to like what you're telling the the guys between sets. But there's obviously got to be something like, listen, we're doing this these things well, we're not doing these things well, let's fix these things but keep these things going. Was there a lot of that, or was it like, listen, guys, like you just gotta keep fighting? Like, what was sort of that in the huddle in between the first and second and second and third, like?

SPEAKER_00 54:52

Yeah, I think if just looking back at it now, I was like, that was four sets in a row. So the second, third set against Queens, and then the first and second set against Montreal, that were all like either 25-23 or extra points. So they're in like we kind of chucked both of the second and third against Queens. Um, for those who haven't been in our gym to see what it's like during these big matches, like it's something to behold. And so I think that the team, like our team kind of exhaled at some point in the third set against Montreal and then played freely all the way through against the entire match against Trinity, where it was just like all this pressure had built up over all these months and all the expectation and everything. And then finally it was like we've been backed up into the corner so far where we just like couldn't be worried about anything anymore, and just the whole group just exhaled and then started to play freely, and that's really what I saw. And once that happened, once the whole the group just like let it happen, the rest of that match wasn't close against Montreal. No, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:55

And so is that something that you would try to like coach the team on next time where yeah, there's these expectations, but at the same time, like I don't want to say it's just volleyball, but it's just volleyball. Like, let's take a breath and let's just, yeah, there's expectations, but we can still get through them. Like, how do you how do you get a team to like have that exhale moment without having to put their back against a wall like that?

SPEAKER_00 56:28

I would love to know. I think that uh, you know, having not really lost a meaningful match from like November 25th or whatever it was till March 8th or whatever that final was built up a lot of that. Like just hearing things and everyone feeling it's like uh you know, being perfect in the second semester and all of that stuff creates expectation. And so when it starts to not go well in a in the OUA final, pressure mounts, and so it's just human nature. I think that like it wasn't anything that was said by the coaching staff. Um that was just the boys were finally just like, okay, we're just gonna play.

SPEAKER_02 57:07

But at the same like but when I like if I think about like international women's volleyball right now, I I think it was last summer the Italian women's senior team is like 29 or 30 and oh, and like they have the longest winning streak between the Olympics, world championships, VNL, all these things like that pressure has to be huge, yet at the same time, these athletes just seem to like non call, I'll call it nonchalantly, just deal with it. Obviously, they have some some emotion behind it, but I mean, how do you coach athletes and salespeople and business people through the pressure of wanting to do these big things, whether it's making money or win titles or whatever? How do you get them to like, yeah, it's pressure, but there's always going to be pressure?

SPEAKER_00 58:02

I think we just practice and put ourselves in those situations enough times. And I think that you know, winning kind of like um will foster that winning attitude. It's actually easier to win. You like the expectations um make it difficult sometimes, but um I really think that it's you're in a better position if you've won all those matches to win again than it would be to like having lost a bunch in a row.

SPEAKER_02 58:26

Yeah, like yeah, I mean there, yeah. I mean, it it's way better to unfortunately have that that loss and that failure than to have an unwinning season and be like, well, that just didn't go the way we wanted it to go at all. Um, so I get that part of it. Um yeah, I mean, that's yeah, pressure's a hard thing.

SPEAKER_00 58:46

Yeah, our season was great. Like the end of the season was great too, even though we didn't win a medal and we came in fourth at nationals. That's the best finish that we've ever had. Our group, I really think that we maxed out, like the group played incredibly well all season long, and I'm super proud of the season that we had. Yeah, it's like just the nature of it. We want more, we always want more, and that's what makes it so that we're the ones who are able to do it, like is always wanting more.

SPEAKER_02 59:13

And now you have 10 guys graduating, all of your starters for the most part, gone. Uh, you do have obviously other people in the chamber ready to come in and play and uh maybe, you know, a little less experience or anything like that. What's sort of your uh what are the things you're gonna focus on next year, knowing that you just came off this amazing season and we're like, I'm assuming that you you took a little bit of time, but you're you're back at the grind now going, what's happening next year?

SPEAKER_00 59:45

Yes, we have a really talented group who has been in like first and second year and these past couple seasons, and they've really been uh grinding and like these are players who are ready. Like they would have played for almost any team in our league, many of the players who um you know didn't get as much of a chance for us this year. Um, but um yeah, so they'll be ready for next season. There'll be definite growing pains. We have to go through it, especially road trips and tough battles, five setters, all of that. So really looking forward to that. Our away schedule looks really tough for next uh next season. You already have your schedule already? We know who we're gonna be playing a home and away. Okay, just don't know when. Right. We don't have the schedule yet on dates, but we know yeah, who's gonna have to come here and you know who where we're gonna have to go.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:30

So I'm assuming then, are you allowed to say? I'm assuming then you're gonna be away at Queens, Mac, uh Western and Toronto.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:45

I don't know if I'm allowed to say or not, but you're in the right ballpark with with some of those. So yeah, there's some there's some tough gyms. Yeah, there's some tough matches on the road, and um we're gonna learn a lot. That's that's the beauty of like turning over to a new cycle is really exciting, and this was a great, you know, unbelievable run for the group that we had. And um really grateful to have had that opportunity, but it's just like it's a rebirth now, it's really cool. Yeah, really cool phase.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:13

Yeah, and and so what is that like then? So going through uh different athletes, um different cycles, all that kind of stuff. Uming that you've got this, like you can impact them on the court and you can also make an even bigger impact off the court. Um what's sort of your take on like that part of it? Of like, I know we talked a little bit about legacy, and you know, one of the things you said was, you know, you kind of always want to be that coach that you didn't have. Um but like where do you stand on like uh what's more important, you know, school and life outside of the court or off the court and life on the court.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:58

Yeah, the way that I kind of phrase it is um I want to strive to be the coach that I wish I had for myself. And so it's less about like what I didn't get, more about like just thinking about the coach that I wish that I had had for myself and the coach that I wish um my children would have. That's kind of what informs uh my coaching and like my philosophy. But the impact off the court and in life and stuff is like really important, but it's strange how little I actually think about that. Like it's just about doing the right things and and trying to teach and you know, hate to use the word, but like correct when we see uh someone who's making a choice that might not be the best, but like just weighing in and being able to have some influence uh for the better.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:45

Yeah, because those are things that like they sometimes just like happen. You know, like you're not really trying, not that you're not trying to like make a good human being, but that's not really like your job. Your job is to make a a really good volleyball player that's also like you know good with grades and you know, hold them accountable to those things, but those things just kind of like you know, they just kind of like transfer over into life after sports.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:10

Is that something you even really have to try out very much? Just because growing up, you know, if we were doing something really fun and then I did something that was wrong, I would get a I would get a word, like I would be corrected and say, like, yeah, like don't do that. Like, and the reason why. And so that's the thing, it's like we don't have to really our coaching staff, we don't have to like tell ourselves we need to focus on helping to coach the whole athlete because that's just what we do by nature. We'll help, we'll encourage, we'll offer a word if we think that someone is off the path. We it's just like that's part of the job, and we don't really have to think and try to make that part of the job. Like we do that out of course because um, you know, we care for the student athletes so much.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:54

So and so what do you think the uh what do you think this the success you guys had that last season and this season is now gonna do for the program itself moving forward? Because I know we talked a lot about like there's a lot more outreach now than there maybe has been in the past. Um, you know, being top four in nationals, hosting a gym, you have a new gym. Uh it's a couple two years old, I think. Two years old. Um, all of these things are really great things for the program. Um, what's that gonna do for recruiting, talent, keeping this tradition going of getting in the final four and maybe one day winning a title?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:32

Yeah, I think it's made it a little bit uh easier to to get student athletes or prospective, you know, recruits to come to our campus, you know, on visits and such. So doors are being opened a little bit easier than what they were, definitely. Um, and there's more contact from prospective um athletes who are looking to come here. So it's just about working through all of those. Yeah, uh, but yeah, definitely from a recruiting piece, like it's a little bit easier to get them to come. And the gym just sells itself, it's like so incredible. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:06

So we had people haven't been to the gym, they need to go to the gym.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:09

Yes, it's it's it's most a lot of repeat customers who come and watch our team play because the the environment is so great and um the product has been really good too.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:19

Yeah, and so in terms of that recruitment side of things, like do you find that the athletes are wanting to come to the program now because you have a new gym and we're top four at nationals? Uh that it's just giving it more exposure, and people are now being like, I never really thought of the school as an option in general. Uh and the reason I ask is like even just in my own company, like as we grow, there's been more and more and more conversations about who is this Spectre Company and what are they doing, and we're a lot more on Obviously on social media, we're a lot more at different events, we're giving back in the community, our sales are going through the roof in the industry, and like people are taking notice. And now we're getting, you know, emails from people being like, Hey, uh, you know, I was thinking about getting into the industry. You know, do you guys only hire, you know, new guys or do you only hire experienced guys? Like, and it's just this like interesting, like, all we were just doing it because we love it and we wanted to grow, but we didn't expect that like five years in, four years in that people would just start being like, I know who you are, I know what you're doing, and I want to be a part of it.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:40

Right. You got to action those emails when they come in. Yeah, yeah, right. It's it's it it adds more tasks to the list. I know. Um, yeah, it it's uh it's interesting. I think that the University of Windsor and Windsor in general is still like a really one of the you know best kept secrets. Like um, and so it's it's been a lot of fun to be able to help in a little way to help grow that. Um people are starting to take more notice, and that's meant like a lot more contact, a lot more email. But really, a lot of people still haven't been to Windsor. A lot of the, you know, it's amazing to me.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:18

It's unreal. Every every travel sport, Windsor always has to leave Windsor, go to Toronto, London, Ottawa, whatever, Cambridge, and very few teams ever come down this way. Like they don't really even know how good things are down here.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:36

Yeah, it's always fun to get to see the eye opening. You know, it's been great, especially with our gym to and hosting nationals and such, just to be able to, you know, show people what Windsor has to offer. Yeah, for sure. So, yeah, it's been it's been fun to do that. And it's been part of what has been a driving like force from within and within our coaching staff has been like to continue. We're all alums of our program. We're proud, you know, University of Windsor alums as well. And so we want to continue to grow that. And so it's been great for us to see that grow and it's become a little bit easier to open some doors, especially for some like higher profile players.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:13

And do you feel that your experience in the business world? So I actually don't even really know everything that you've done before, but we talked a little bit about uh you did like some investment banking stuff for a while, you did some mortgage stuff for a while. I don't even know if you're doing it anymore because you're now full-time coaching, so I'm not even sure. You're not. Um, how have those business skills transitioned into the sporting world?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:42

Yeah, I think that um they're really similar in a lot of ways. It's really about um making sure that you do the the best that you can today and making sure that you do the best on that next little job. Because if you do, if you win today, then you're gonna win the month, you know, from a say in a sales perspective. If you're doing the right things today, it's gonna really help you. Regardless of what business you have closing this week, that wasn't because of the things you did this week. Right. That's because of what you did in the past. So six months ago. Right. So if you're not, if you think you're, you know, in the sales world they call it fat, dumb, and happy. If we get fat, dumb, and happy, then it might be fun today. But next week, next month, next quarter, it's not gonna be that great. And so we got to just stay hungry and continue to do the things today that got us here and and just revisit what how we can do things better and continue to do those things today that are gonna help us win the day.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:39

Yeah, yeah, that's awesome. We're we're getting low on time, and I told you I I I'm keeping you longer than I told you I would. Uh, I have two other things from past uh actually three other things from past players uh that I want to read you. Um one uh from one of your past setters, Nolan. Um, team culture stems from him. He has a balance between being laid back and easy to talk to while also bringing intensity and being straight up with you when you need to. It sounds like you've had to have some conversations with Nolan in the past. Um, he means more to me than just a coach. Over my time at Windsor, he's become part of my family. Pierce says, uh, Gravel has been one of the most influential people in my life. He gave me the tools to pursue a professional volleyball career. Most importantly, he showed me the importance of who I am, what I can do, and what it means to be good, uh what it means to be a good human being. Wow. And Gus, uh, many things make Gravel a great coach, but his ability to be his ability to get all the players and coaches on the same page is second to none. He understands that he has an impact both on and off the court with players and coaches. How does it make you feel having guys that have left the program saying those kinds of things?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:56

That's great. And I think um, you know, I think that uh it's just a reflection on the entire program. That's become a focus. I think there's a few things that were linked there, but it's just about being like authentic, really, like and being true to each other and getting everyone on the same page um can be a little bit easier when you know when the leadership of the team is really in service to the team. And so I think that I just think about the leadership styles of each of those three individuals, and it's really um selfless, like service-oriented, and it's hopefully some of the lessons that they learned like in our program.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:33

Yeah, I'd agree. Like watching, watching from either the sideline or the stand, even as a referee, like seeing how things unfold, I would say that you're probably one of like the calmest coaches for the most part. Not that not that I've ever screwed up too much. Can we go can we go through a few of those calls? I don't even know if I ever remember them, to be honest. There's just too many, probably. Um, but just seeing like how like calm and cool, collected, like it doesn't matter how bad things get, you're like always the coach that's just on the sideline, like, all right, next, next point. Like, yeah, can't control that thing, can't control this thing, but like next point. Is that something that you just like you focus on the things that you can and cannot control? Or internally, you're like, I really want to yell at Sean when he's on the stand right now.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:24

But that's exactly the case. Not not Sean in particular, but uh just in general, it's like there's an internal monologue that's taking place that is much different than what's being projected, you know, not towards anyone, it's more about like feelings and like just it's about being in control, it's about not letting them see you sweat, and it's just about like figured out the impact that like the head coach has on the group, and so I just know the value of being ready for the next point and and being ready for the next little battle. And so if the coach is emotional and riding that emotional roller coaster, I just don't see a lot of value in that. I think it's better to be more uh because the boys will follow, right? So being more stoic and and being able to be game for every little fight is worth a lot in our sport. I mean, it's worth a lot in almost any sport, you know, being able to get rid of the past and be ready to be your best for the next point. And so that's like a conscious thing that's gotten better over time. And um, I would like to say that I don't think I've had a yellow card since 2017.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:32

So I was gonna say I've never seen you have one since I moved here. I don't think yeah, I've ever seen it.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:37

I hope to retire without another card. And if I get one, you know, it's partially out of my control. Like you could you could give me a card the next time we play just because that's your decision. But it's one of those things that um it's it's a point of pride to have a team that is well behaved and is respectful. It's not that you're gonna push us over. That's not the case at all. That would be a mistake for anyone to think that. But it's it's just about mutual respect, respect for ourselves, respect for our opponent, respect for the officials, the fans, and everyone. It's just uh something that I think is needs to be improved in sport today. It's a big gap. And I think that uh if we can be that example, that it'll help, especially with the younger generation who are watching.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:18

Yeah, I would 100% agree with that. Watching from the stands or on the stand or whatever, like that will blow over big time into not just the kids, but the the younger kids who are in the stadium watching that think it's okay to do those things. Right. Um, when things aren't uh in their control, right? Um, you can only do what you can do. And after that, it's you know, keep keep control of your emotion because that's the one thing you definitely can control.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:44

Yes, and just having the respect for everyone. Like if we are disrespectful towards our opponent, like as my friend and mentor John Barrett would say, like when we look across the net, we're looking at ourselves. Right. So if we're disrespectful to our opponent, then we're disrespecting ourselves. And that's that hits home with me for sure. Just respect having respect for ourselves, being the example to others. It's just we're playing volleyball. This is like an honorable game, you know. Yeah, it's it's not a tough man's game.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:15

Yeah, yeah, no, I get that. Uh well, yeah. Uh last question. I didn't prepare you for this. We end the podcast the same way every time, which is uh to so James, what does success success mean to you?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:30

I think that success is um just about being able to look yourself in the mirror and knowing that you've done your best. I really think that that is uh a measure of success. Have you have you done your best? And can you look it in the mirror and with those who you know you're in the fight with and just be able to hold your head up knowing that you've done the best that you can do? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:54

Did you did you empty the tank every day to to put yourself in a position to win that day or or did you leave something on the court or on the field or wherever? Yes. Yeah, I think that that's success. That's great. I like that. James, thanks for taking the time. Uh the last hour and a bit's been awesome to chat. Um, I'm looking forward to next season. We'll see if I'm on the stand or not. But uh uh I appreciate the last hour and a bit that you've spent uh chatting with me a little bit about uh the team and what you've built and and uh and the career you've had in the last you know decade. Awesome. Thanks, Sean. Really appreciate it. No problem. Uh that's another episode, guys, of Cracking the Success Vault um here with Spectre Group. As always, you can find us everywhere uh on your you know, Apple Music, streaming things, Spotify, uh, YouTube. Uh you know where to find us. Uh you can look us up. Until next time.