18 GREG JENNINGS: NFL Champion on Kalamazoo, Micah Parsons & Therapy

Coach Rodo sits down with his friend, Kalamazoo Central alumnus, Super Bowl Champion, and Fox Sports Analyst Greg Jennings for an explosive conversation.

Jennings offers his expert football perspective on the controversial Kalamazoo Central incident, affirming Rodo's stance that the play was a non-malicious act misinterpreted by social media. He then dives into NFL analysis, providing candid insights on the Micah Parsons trade, the Ravens' defensive woes, and the evolving game of Aaron Rodgers.

The conversation culminates in a deeply personal segment where Jennings shares his journey from growing up on Kalamazoo's North Side to prioritizing his mental health through therapy. He discusses how learning to be "healthy selfish" and improving communication has been the number one game-changer in his life as a husband and father. He encourages the Black community to overcome the taboo of seeking mental health help.

00:01) - Introduction of Super Bowl Champion, Fox Sports Analyst, and Kalamazoo native, Greg Jennings.
(02:25) - Greg Jennings' perspective on the viral Kalamazoo Central football incident and why he views it as a "football play" and not assault.
(05:01) - Discussing social media condemnation, racial division, and the need for context in sports commentary.
(06:10) - Expert analysis on the Micah Parsons trade, productivity vs. perception, and correcting the fan narrative.
(10:19) - Breaking down the problems with the Baltimore Ravens' defense and assessing personnel issues.
(13:20) - Greg Jennings evaluates Aaron Rodgers' performance and changing game style with the New York Jets.
(15:49) - Jennings reveals his Super Bowl LXI prediction (Green Bay vs. Buffalo) and analyzes Josh Allen's MVP chances.
(21:48) - Reflecting on growing up on Kalamazoo's North Side, the Douglas, and sneaking out for Midnight League.
(27:19) - The power of therapy: How Greg Jennings found the "healthiest version" of himself after retiring.
(28:51) - Why therapy is the number one game-changer, improving communication with family and coworkers.
(32:31) - The revelation of being "healthy selfish" and how setting personal boundaries improved his family life.
(36:58) - Addressing the taboo of mental health in the Black community and encouraging others to seek help.

#GregJennings #NFL #Kalamazoo #MentalHealth #Therapy #WinningRegardless #MicahParsons #AaronRodgers #FoxSports

Transcript

0:01

Welcome everybody to a special edition of Coach Rodo's podcast, Winner Regardless. And it's special because today I have a friend of mine who's a former NFL great, who's a Super Bowl champion, also a Hall of Fame in the Green Bay Packer uniform and played for the Minnesota Vikings, Western grad, uh also Kalamazoo Central grad, Mr. Greg Jennings. KC's finest. Yes sir, what's going on man, how you doing? Excellent, man. I'm good. Almost as good as you. I mean, you looking just as bald as that microphone podcast behind you. Photo. Hey, you got a lot more grades than you used to have. hey, you see me as wisdom. I think I matured a little bit, grew up, learned a couple of things. So yeah. you tell us a little bit about what you got going on and all that stuff right now. Um, so yeah, man, I'm obviously done playing football. I don't like to use the word retired because I'm still working, working for FS one. I was doing color commentating, which, which is at the, at the stadiums, calling games on Sundays. However, now I'm in, I'm in studio, which I love it because, um, I'm here throughout the week and then I get the weekends at home and I pretty much alternate every other week. yeah, doing that for FS1 on First Things First, loving it, having a blast with the guys and uh just trying to be the best version of husband, dad, brother, friend that I possibly can be. That's what's up, man. I gotta say that when I watch you on TV now, it's funny because I remember the first time you asked me how you sounded on TV, and I told you you sound like a cool pop bug. yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that was early. was early. early, you know. Now you don't graduate into AI, huh? I'm a little savvy vet with it now. So yeah, I did. I used to check in with you all the time. Like, hey, well, how did it sound? How did I look? I remember that. Yeah. days. So I know you heard about what happened with the young fella up here in Kalamazoo, didn't you? It was all over the news, man. Well, apparently, um so you know, because I want your perspective on it. I gave mine the other day. So what happened was a kid from Kalamazoo Central Football, JV Team. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So give me your take on that, man. So here's, this is one of the reasons why I get frustrated with social media because they can literally turn the narrative into something completely different. Like this is a kid that's playing football and you are taught as a lineman, like when you get a guy on the ground, you keep him there. Now, none of us have... It was dramatic in the fashion that he chose to keep him on the ground by belly flopping on him. But it's called pancaking. When you got a guy on the ground, you hop on him right away. You don't let him get up. As an offensive lineman, defensive lineman, know that's what you do. So to see a lot of the comments saying, this is assault. He should be bent. Like, what are we talking about? No, this is not assault. He didn't swing at a kid. injuries happen in football and he just happened to be uh in a vulnerable position in a bigger kid that jumped on him. Could he have chosen another way to go about it? Yeah, but he did what? Look, he playing ball. I didn't look at it as malicious. I didn't look at it as... It definitely wasn't something that's premeditated where he trying to swing on him. He going after him. No, he's just, he's on the ground. This is what I'm taught to do. And the kid got injured. Now everybody feels bad. Nobody wants to see another individual injured, especially at the hand of you or yourself. um But it's a, it's a odd football play, but it is within the framework of playing the game. And you know, I kind of had the same take. told people, you know, my thing is listening to comments where they're talking about his parents, talking about he should be in jail, and you know, talking about our community as a whole, and that's how we raise our kids, man. I just had to say, you know, it's ridiculous. Yeah, see, I didn't see all this is why I don't read comments. I've been this has been my life for years. And so people are going to have their opinion. But this is society as a whole. This is this is if we could take on and again, I'm not the one who has the only perspective and I am not the expert. I am an expert as it pertains to this football. right. When you don't understand the rules, when you don't understand how you play the game and what is acceptable and what is unacceptable, what is deemed legitimate and what is deemed foul. Don't comment, because it has nothing to do with anything external outside the framework of football. So to start turning it into something more than what it needs to be, this is the issue with society today. We always want to create some form of division specifically when there are two races involved. Right, right, right. Now, you're talking about your expertise. You kinda had to school your boy a couple weeks ago in the Mike Parsons situation. You know, I gotta say, I've been paying a little bit of attention and you was right. know, I said that, you know, how I didn't. think that Micha Parson moved the needle because of the lack of tackles. And then you started going down the line to some of the people that broke me down. And then now I'm looking and I saw his pressures. He leaves the league in quarterback pressures. tell me what it's like when you have to give your perspective on the game. So it's interesting, we can use the Micah Parsons trade, like, and this is fans, this is teammates, this is anybody that was representing the Dallas Cowboy fandom or that organization, right? Micah was a cowboy. Before he got traded, before trade talks for even a thing. Everybody, the perspective and how you viewed him was, Mike is a difference maker. He's a transcendent player. Like he's on the verge of hall of fame type career, right? Once the relationship changes, perspective also changes. Now you start to view all the things that will allow you to align with just your team, not the players. What I'm saying is that's what we do. So Micah is now in Green Bay and you no longer have access to Micah. He's no longer pass rushing for your team. And so now you're going to identify all the negatives. Yeah, he's not a great run stopper. He don't tackle. Well, last I checked, defensive ends aren't asked to tackle like that, but people don't understand that. When you look at, and I did this with you, when you look at the tackles for defensive ends, Nick Bosa, Miles Garrett, TJ Watt, the ones who we deem the best of the best, Micah had more tackles than any one of them. And his sacks are just there with them, his pressures are above. And so it just, depending on what the relationship ends up being, we flip. our lenses to see it from that side. And so when I watch these games and I look at what Micah's done from a productivity, from an individual productivity standpoint and what we deem him having great success, which is sacks, is he putting up tremendous numbers? No. But is he wreaking havoc? If you ask defensive or offensive coordinators, uh offensive tackles, They like, yeah, yeah, this dude a problem. He's a problem because he brings more attention to himself, which then allows other guys to be even better. He did it his entire four years in uh Dallas. He helped the secondary because he's going to pressure the quarterback. They don't have all that extra time to just hold onto the ball and to then allow receivers to uncover all those things come into play when you have a guy like Micha on your side. Now, for the record, I did say last year I wanted to get rid of Micha Parsons for all the same reasons I gave you earlier. I mean, this year. Last year, I was the one that said, man, he can go. Because of, I already told you why, but you know, kind of changed my perspective on those things when I had to look at, you know, when you gave me the proof. The proof was in the pudding. I mean, you you can't argue with numbers. And we had him, you know. So tell me, what do you think is the problem with the Baltimore freaking Ravens, man? What is going on with that D? If I had that answer, man, I would go ahead and get that defensive coordinator job. Look, I think, so with the Ravens, it's interesting because every year we watch them have these early season issues and they find a way to evaluate themselves, recalibrate at some point and then fix them. This year it just looks... Last year looked odd and they found a way to do it. This year it looks odd because when I look at them right now, like they're playing the Chiefs this week and you start to look at, okay, well what reinforcements do they have that are going to come and help and assist? Well, Metabuke's out, their defensive tackle, huge presence in the middle, understand that, but he was available the first two games and this still kind of happened. Jair Alexander. what value is he gonna add to our secondary? Maybe he adds value to it. We've seen guys that we feel like should still be playing at a great high skill level that don't. So will he even add value? Ask the commanders in Marshawn Lottimore right now. It's hit or miss. And so if you can't get... consistent pressure on the quarterback. If you can't stop the run, it starts with stopping the run when you watch defenses, because even as an offensive guy, if we can run the ball, that's exactly what we're gonna do. You go into any game and if you can run the ball, you're gonna run the ball. Like the Bears did against the Cowboys, 11 straight runs. Correct. If they show that they cannot be stout against the run, you are going to expose them. Now the Cowboys, look, y'all got a whole different, your issues are not just scheme, it is personnel. They walk down the stairs, straight trash. It is personnel. And I know Eva Fluse, anytime you get a chance to like play against your, your former team, you want to stick it to him. So just imagine how he was feeling getting torched by Caleb in that offense. And he knows that offense inside and out. He was putting his defense against them every single day. And so to not be able to literally stop a nosebleed, like he's pulling this, he's trying everything he possibly can to make it work. I felt like if you couldn't get it done against the Bears and that's the team that I know he wanted to get it done against. Yeah, it's bad. It's not just scheme, it's personnel. So now let's talk about your old teammate Aaron Rodgers. How you think he's looking? How do I think he's looking? I mean, you see how he looking? He look... I mean... Look. for Mr. analysis. Look, so his game has changed. Let's face it, we all get older and you notice you're an athlete, you play ball. At some point you will adapt your game, but with adapting your game, that means there's things that I can't do anymore. So I have to either elevate the things that... I'm now learning to adapt and do, and they have to be done at a high clip, or I'm gonna be exposed. I'm not going to be myself. I'm no longer gonna be or have the superpowers that they once saw me operate with. That's Aaron. His escape ability, his ability to extend plays, play off script, um and just completely elude and evade pass rush and still look downfield and find guys, he doesn't have that in his bag anymore. that's when you lose something like that, that you heavily rely on, if you can't protect him, which they haven't been able to truly protect him just in the straight drop back without him moving, he's going to be... up and down all season long. He's going to have games. I said this at the beginning of the season. He's going to have games where you're like, this is exactly why we got them. And then he's going to have those games where you're like the Jets like, man, get him out of here, man. We don't have a quarterback yet. And I just don't think in this league, it's not about me thinking you can't have inconsistent quarterback play like that. And think that you're going to make a deep run in the postseason and their defense isn't planned as as good as they have in the past, so yeah no. Now who's your Super Bowl pick? Who you, I mean, and why? Is this really a question? You come on man. No. Well, I do have the bills going to the Superbowl. I do. Yes, I do. I do. I got Green Bay Buffalo. I do. And your love is gonna hold on to get them there. So we continue to make this about Jordan Love. And I tried to tell these guys this today a little bit. And yes, Jordan can be better. Yes, absolutely. And he's one of those quarterbacks that we've seen him throw the ball to the other team and put his team in trouble, just like last week. When you have a defense, this is a part of the maturation process of playing quarterback as well. When you have a defense, which that's as good as their defense, you gotta know when you can do those types of things and when not. um And so after the game, he was saying how he just didn't, he didn't see the guy fall off and it just, it was a good play by the defender and it was, and the defender did fall off. However, it's such a quick. Bang, bang. It's such a bang bang and a quick, it's quick game. So naturally, if the picture is a little muddy, leave it alone. Understand what type of game we're playing. This is about field position right now. So if um I make any error that blows up in our face, it can be detrimental. And that's what I think he just has to learn. And he's learning that. And you only learn that as situation presents themselves. can't just, you can know it, but it's one thing to know and it's one thing to understand what you know and then start to do it. And I think he's going to understand that and he'll get it done. Now, okay, I understand why Green Bay. Why Buffalo, man? Are you on that narrative? Because last year they pushed the narrative in the beginning of the season for Josh Allen to win the MVP. Lamar had better numbers, but Josh got it because that's who they wanted to get it. I'm with you there. Look, I thought either one of them could have got it. I would have given it to Lamar if we were basing it off numbers. And what holds a lot of value and weight when we talk quarterbacks is touchdown passes. Now, I truly believe if there are stats the way they were distributed were reversed or were flipped where Lamar had 20 something touchdown passes and they near 20 something rush touchdowns, they would have been knocking him for that. right. there was no knock for Josh for that. It was just like, look, man. The one thing I will say though, because I'm a Josh Allen fan now, prior to the season, because of what he didn't have going into that season last year around him, I felt like this is his to take. If he elevates this team, if they have success, and he's the driving force, which he was gonna have to be, of why they are having success, then yes, this is an MVP opportunity year for him. And he did it. And we have this, we get bored with seeing the same thing over and over again. Like, so Lamar getting a third MVP is like. that's what it was. didn't want to, and back to back. Yeah, it is like, man, we can we can either give it to Lamar again, or we can give it to this new guy who, to be honest, we, we kind of been wanting Josh Allen, we kind of been wanting Josh Allen to get it for a while now. Like, I mean, we've been wanting them to, we've been wanting to peg him as the the Peyton to, to Brady or you know what I mean? Like, and it's just So now why you got to win the Super Bowl this year? Or going, not winning. You got the backer. My bad, my bad. Yeah, yeah. uh I just, when I watched him play, he is such a difference maker. He being Josh Allen. And in moments he is, he has almost perfected the ability to close games. Like we watched Patrick Mahomes for so many years. If he gets the ball last. He's going to put a dagger through your heart. That's how I feel about Josh Allen right now. He's going to do whatever it takes and in no situation or no deficit is unsurmountable for him because of what he can bring to the table. Defensively, they tend to figure it out. Just kind of like the Ravens. They tend to figure it out. McDermott tends to figure it out as they get into the postseason. Again, everybody that, look that big bad wolf in that red uniform has always gotten everybody over there though. So, and I don't know what type of year that big bad wolf in that red uniform is gonna have this year. So yeah, I like Josh in the bills. Now, see, you gave people a little look into what you do on a daily basis, you know, and that was great. I want people to know they don't understand that you came up right next to the Douglas and you had to walk down streets. Talk a little bit about having to do that. uh Like what you mean by walk down streets? Like, you know, Cobb Street and... Yeah, when not too many good things was going on. I saw a lot. I saw a lot. I saw a lot growing up and I wasn't allowed to do a lot. yeah, I wasn't allowed to do a lot. That doesn't mean I didn't do it. oh Like even just simple things as, remember we were, so my early childhood, we were on Prouty Street, which is a little further north. up Westnitch, uh of Cobb, actually. And then my elementary childhood was on 514 Harding Place, right there around the corner from La Crone Park. Patterson Street is right there, the little candy stores. Anyway, and we weren't allowed to, I mean, literally, the park was not even three minutes from the house. we couldn't go to La Crone Park. Everything happens at La Crone Park, everything. And so it wasn't until I I got till about like seven, seven, eight years old, I started sneaking over there. Then we moved next to the Douglas going into my middle school stint. And it was over from there. It was, mean, between everything that YBL happening at the Douglas, the co-ops, Pat Wood being behind us, seeing a little bit of everything, police chases through our backyard. mean, Midnight League, man, now mind you, you know this, but everybody, well, most people in Kalamazoo, my dad's pastor. So like. yeah. was some clear non-negotiables. There was some clear parameters that was like, I was never, they didn't even know I was playing in Midnight League. For real? They didn't even know I was playing in Midnight League. Or did you tell him we was refing? No, I just left the house. I was right next door. It was right, yeah, they sleep. It's right next door. So I was like, I'm just going. I'm just going. Like, cause I was playing in midnight league. was still in high school. Was it, it was just, yeah, I was still in high school. Man, you crazy. planning Mid-Light League, man. Yeah, man. was, but yeah, man, it really molded me. It really molded me, having that foundation, obviously growing up in the church and so having some principles and some morals to stand on. um And then really establishing what those were for myself, not just taking on what they are and what I've been told that they are and they should be because of my parents. um When I look at myself now and the version of uh man that I've become, that's what I'm most proud of. I've been able to become an independent thinker to where just because you say it doesn't mean it is that. It can very well be. However, I'm going to come to my own conclusion of why that is. And so that's kind of with my faith. my walk, I remember having to tell my dad oh that I wasn't going to take over the church because I know that that was something that was very important to him and the reason why and how like, because I, it was like I wasn't, the only way that I can put it was I grew up Pentecostal, Cojic, Church of God in Christ. And the idea of the nominations Just, I understand it. I didn't agree with it. Correct. I just don't. so I couldn't, I couldn't, I'm, with my profession and what I ended up doing, I'm in the locker rooms. Like it just was gonna look different for me. And so, and then I, you know, I wasn't all the way, I wasn't all the way buttoned up all the time either. So, know, I mean. I wasn't trying to play them games and then, Nah, I wouldn't, yeah, nah. So yeah, but now I'm living the healthiest, and I tell this to everybody now, man, this is the healthiest I've ever been in my life. Not just physically, but mentally, emotionally, with my family, my wife, my children, I just went through the most. the healthiest year, like as a whole person. So you winning. It's super winning. You understand? And you don't really know what that is until you get to that place. You're constantly trying to fill it with other things that you are chasing and you don't even know what it is you're trying to chase. because you haven't settled on, I have to deal with myself. I have to look at myself. better myself. And I started doing that, man. I started going to therapy and it just, it helped me with the communicating with my kids. Shoot, just being able to communicate with my coworkers, with the execs, all that. that. And I hope my listeners hear what you just said because it's okay to seek help if you feel you need it. You know, it's, you know, go ahead. it's been, it's it's been. the number one game changer in my life. I'm not, and I know other people are be like, what about your faith? Yes, that clearly, but as far as having an outlet to share and to be heard and to gain perspective, different perspective, unbiased, it changed everything for me. It changed everything for me, like my kids. recognized it. I'll give you this story really quick. There was challenges, So like one of the, and I'm a very, I'm a self assessing individual. So I'm always trying to improve. I'm always trying to get better. And so I'm gonna have a vulnerable moment for a second with my son. was, you know, I only got one son, Ace, he's the youngest. And I had to learn how to talk to my son because I grew up, in environments where we just talked, we talked stuff, we talked however we talked, whether it was cussing, whether it was the N word, whether it was stupid, whether it was all that, right? And so naturally, like you grow up and you don't wanna say, there are certain things you don't wanna say to your kids, but I found myself like looking at my son and saying, Ace, don't be stupid, Ace. That was dumb. Ace, that's stupid. Why would you do? And I don't know exactly when it happened, but I remember having a self-reflecting moment. Like, man, what if somebody set your son down and said, how's your relationship with your dad? Tell me about your relationship with your dad. All I could think about, all the good things that I do, all I could think about was I don't want him to be able to say, My dad thought everything that I did was stupid. He used to always say, man, that was dumb. He used to think I was dumb. I didn't fully know his interpretation and how it was hitting him. And so with what I didn't know, I knew what I could control, which was me. And so I remember going to my therapist and I'm like, man, I gotta stop saying, I wanna eliminate these words from my vocabulary. Stupid. dumb and I told him the reasons why I said because I say them to my son and I told him all of what I just told you. And he started asking me different questions and challenging me in ways to where I start, learned how to communicate those things differently. Meaning if I thought something was stupid, if I thought, I still think things that my kids do or my son do is like, that's stupid. I think it, but I would, I would reframe that thought in my words and say, ace. Was that the smartest? It's stuff like that where it's gonna challenge him to think about what you just did. And so like when I started doing things like that, again, the number one thing, I'm gonna say this one, the number one thing that changed the game for me was when I understood what it meant or not what it meant. when I understood that there is a healthy version and an unhealthy version of everything, meaning selfishly I had done things and it was like, man, I want to get better. I want to be better for my wife. I want to be better for my kids. I want to be better for whatever the reasons may have been and may be. And it was like, was doing it for those other things. And he was asking me, was like, have you ever, so tell me what selfish is to you? And I always had this negative outlook on selfish and what it means. Just thinking about myself, not considering other people. only considering myself. And he was like, yes. And there's other ways you can be selfish that you need to. And he started challenging me to, I want you to be selfish. Started giving me little homework assignments. Like, I want you to be selfish. I want you to do something selfish, do something for yourself. Don't worry about considering your family, your wife, your children, all that. And it was hard for me to do. And I remember coming back like, man, I failed. I didn't do it. I didn't do it. And he was like, did you think about it? I was like, I did. I just couldn't. And he was like, okay, so that's a win because you're starting to think about it. Then I tried again the following week and he gave me something to do. He was like, okay, I want you to, what do you like to do? I said, I just like to play games and just hang out with my family. So he tasked me with doing that. I did it, I asked my family, hey, look, we're gonna watch this movie at eight o'clock. I everybody to meet me down in the media room and we're gonna watch the movie at eight o'clock. Nobody came. Like, probably, it was unintentional on their behalf, but it hurt my feelings. It really did. And as a man, it's like, we don't go around and be like, man, that hurt my feelings. Why didn't y'all, and I remember going to my bedroom, talking to Nicole, my wife, and telling her, Like, hey babe, uh like nobody came. Like this is like, I really was trying to do just this one thing and she was like, but why don't you just tell everybody how you feel? And that was the first time in my life when I literally allowed my kids and my wife at the same time to see that their actions hurt me and it, or not even necessarily hurt me. didn't feel good. And I was impacted in a way because typically what I've always done in the past, I'll be like, I'll, I'll, it's cool, whatever. That's how we, that's how we handle things as men, right? Like it's cool, whatever. I remember going back to my therapist and I told him that. And he was like, so you did that for your, you did that for yourself. You, you told them how you felt because you wanted to for yourself. It wasn't about, trying to make anybody feel guilty or anything, but you needed to do that for you. I said, I did. And then it just, the light bulb clicked. And all this work that I was doing and continued to do, and still to this day, continue to do, it was a form of being selfish, but a healthy form. And I started to understand that The more selfish I am in learning me and improving who I am, the better version of me that they get. And it blew my mind. It was like, that's all I wanted to do. Then that's all I'm doing is trying to continue to, how can I be better in this area? How can I be better with this? How can I be better? And it's like a lifelong thing. the last thing I'll say is, my therapist asked me, so man, you... you, we've pretty much accomplished everything that you want to accomplish. And so what do you want to do? And I was like, what do you mean what I want to do? Like, this is like, this is like my lifeline. This is, this is a never ending process of growth and opportunity of growth. Like I feel like I'm constantly improving who I am as a man, as a, as a version of myself. It's like, Apple comes out with a different phone every other year or so. that's kind of how I feel now. Like that's what therapy has been for me. And so, man, I tell people, man, like I know it's taboo in the black community and it's something that we don't even talk about um openly because we're worried about how it may be, you may be portrayed or. care about too many other outside opinions. And so we're unwilling to say the things that are assisting us in our day-to-day walks and lives. um And it's hindering the growth of other people too. Absolutely, because, you know, again, therapy was one of the best things for me, too. It allowed me to find out what was wrong with me from what happened to me in the military. Without therapy, and actually without my wife coming to therapy with me, because, you know, like you said, in the community, it's taboo. So I would go to my therapist, I'd just sit there and, well, how was everything? Fine. And then Maggie came one day and said, is this what he tells you every time he comes? And she was like, yeah. She was like, for five years? And she was like, yeah, she's like, okay, well here, I got a list of everything. And so, know, it was, she became a mouthpiece in that and, you know, I was able to work through it, through her and the therapy by relaying it. So it kind of helped me accept that what happened to me wasn't my fault. When I understood that, it allowed me to be a better father because now all of a sudden there's demons that are being taken away from me that made me scared to be the type of father that I really wanted to be and could be. So like you said, it was unhealthy, but the therapy was healthy for me because it was like those peanut butter sandwiches for you to puttin' on that weight. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely, man. So we go, I go, I have my personal therapist, and then Nicole and I, we have our couples therapy every other week. And just recently she was, our therapist was like, so what are your thoughts? should we be done? Cause you guys have, you guys are executing all these different things that we've tried and at a high level. And it's like, We both are like, no, no. Because it forces us to continue to find something to work on. And that's just where we are. They may be small to other people, but when we first went, they were big. We thought that they were catastrophic. And it's like, now, I'm not going to stop. Think about, this is how I look at therapy. If you had an opportunity to... to have success in form of finances. Everybody loves money. And it was a guaranteed $5 every single day. Just if you just showed up, walked past this sign and tapped it. All you gotta do is show up, walk past the sign, tap it. And it's an automatic $5 deposit every single day. Almost everyone, once you start to think of the impact that addition of taps and then $5, what they will equate to and the impact that they can have, you're never gonna stop doing it. That's how I feel about that. Like it's something, once you experience the impact from a positive standpoint of what it starts to do, man, in your life with you, It literally is like, for me, it's like addicting. I I constantly wanna get better. I wanna improve, I wanna be better. So when people ask me the question of, man, what's the number one thing you gotta do to have a healthy marriage and to stay married? You know, the cliche answer is always communicate, communicate, communicate. And I used to say that stuff too, man. And the reality of it is, and this is my belief, this is my understanding, for me. Find a way, not find a way, fall in love with becoming a better version of yourself and trying to improve yourself. Because if you truly do that, if that's what you chase, your spouse is gonna get uh an updated version of you constantly. If you do it for yourself, you have it to give and to do for other people. If you don't do it with yourself, you can't give what you don't have and what you are not. So I know that was a rant, man. My bad. Nah, man. Well, shoot, Man, in closing, man, I want to thank you for giving us time, man. And, uh you know, it's a pleasure, man. Any time you want to get on and talk, man, you... uh therapy today. know, took that turn, and it's gonna be great for the listeners. Because from what I'm understanding, a lot of the coaches pay attention to it, lot of the coaches, so hearing you, because they're gonna see your face, so hearing you and talk about going to therapy. This big, strong football player whose hardest hit he took was from Darryl Dawkins. I remember that story, too. You know, they go, you know, that means a lot for the community, man. And I really appreciate you taking the time to do that, Absolutely, man. We'll do it again. We'll definitely do it again. Well, thank you, Greg, for joining Coach Rodo's podcast, Winning Regardless, man. You just keep on winning, my brother, and I can't wait to have you on again, man. All right. Y'all serve, my man.