Aces Up Your Sleeve
Join Kade and Sabrina, two a-spec autistic therapists, and their special guests as they help you navigate relationships.
Aces Up Your Sleeve
Is Asexuality a Hormone Issue? Autism & Sex Drive
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We have a brand new logo to accompany this week’s episode! We’re explaining why that is, what the new flag by AceinGrace means, and we’re answering some questions about life on the asexuality spectrum. We’re covering if hormones are the reason someone’s asexual, what to do about it, and how to navigate uncomfortable Public Displays of Affection from friends.
Ace in Grace's instagram post: https://www.instagram.com/p/DXabwaljIrP/
To ask us questions, fill out the form at www.neurokink.org/auys
Find more content on Patreon (18+): www.patreon.com/AcesUpYourSleevePodcast
Sabrina at www.radicalingingishtsconsulting.com or @radicalinsightsconsulting on social media (FB, IG)
Kade at www.cryptidlearns.com or @cryptidlearns on social media (FB, IG)
This is the Aces Up Your Sleeve podcast, and we're the Aces Up Your Sleeve in relationships, from romantic to workplace, parental to platonic, your relationship with yourself and everything in between. Let us, two autistic aspect kinky therapists, be your secret weapon in neurodivergent life.
SPEAKER_01This is your disclaimer. This is not therapy or therapeutic advice, and we are not on the clock. This is for entertainment purposes only. This is not a replacement for therapy. What you'll hear are our thoughts on different topics, what we might do in the situation, and how we've supported others through similar things.
SPEAKER_02I love how the the topics really swing between autistic stuff, asexual stuff, kinky things, and then like sometimes it's a mix of all of the above for one episode.
SPEAKER_01Yep, it it works out really well.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, agreed. Um before we jump into the questions, though, listeners, did you all know that there's a new A-Spec flag?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. It was kind of perfect timing that I saw. I think um the official one dropped on like the 21st. We're recording on uh of April. The recording on May 2nd. And so like it kind of was perfect timing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, and I know the info is kind of delayed for for listeners, but it sounds like this is uh this is not a big corporate organization trying to push some colors or some messaging. This is like actual community members led by an asexual community member and a black femme asexual community member, which is very exciting. Yeah. So we wanted to to one highlight that and two, probably update our logo and our materials to match because this flag is actually very cool.
SPEAKER_01Yes, yeah, and the like meanings of the colors, and um, there's a huge amount of like time and effort and labor and intention and care that is very clearly put into this.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I hope I'm I'm gonna pronounce this right, but um the old flag's about 15 years old, and I guess about three years ago, a shabby of Ace and Grace, uh located over at underscore Ace and Grace underscore on Instagram, started trying to do this big project of revising the flag, making it actually represent the community. Uh took in a ton of community feedback from over a thousand people, I think is what that had said. Revised the original draft of the update, like just has been working so hard at this, and so finally it's released.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's super exciting. Um and so yeah, like Kate said, we're gonna be updating. You'll see the like images and graphics change. We so the new flag has some yellow in it. We'll talk about kind of what it stands for. And our current logo has gold in it, so we're gonna be figuring out how to make both of those still stay, um, because the gold is for autism, and so we want to be able to keep those things going on.
SPEAKER_02So, for folks who are familiar with the old flag, the colors and in most pride flags, the colors mean something, they stand for something, it's a symbolism thing. The black piece uh stood for asexuality, the gray piece was demisexuality, the white piece was for non-asexual partners and allies, and then the purple was a community that's say that without being like, oh is this looking weird because it is a little odd to incorporate allies into the flag for your community.
SPEAKER_01Love allies, but no, love of their own, you don't need your own flag color. So this is the new flag. This is the final design uh here by Ace and Grace. You can see their account here. So they they have worked super, super hard on this, and this is the final design that they put together. And then here, this is that same post, um, but we zoomed in a little bit for the final design and the meanings of the of the colors. So, for just listeners, always remember that you can come over and watch this uh podcast on YouTube if you'd like to see us. Um, I do a lot of hand motions, so that's super fun, and you're missing out. But the new colors are black, gray, white, a pretty bright like uh yellow color, a pretty bright pink color, and then a pretty similar purple color to what the original one was. And so the black represents support, understanding, awareness, and appreciation. The gray acknowledges asexuality as a spectrum of identities, including gray, demi, and micro labels, which often get left out. The white represents the spectrum of intimacy experienced, sexual, physical, emotional, intellectual, etc. The dandelion yellow represents multiculturalism, intersectionality, and joy within the asexuality community, promoting all activities and experiences that allow us to enhance our joy while consciously strengthening our bonds with one another. The pink represents and acknowledges the love that we experience is true, expansive, and diverse. It centers all forms of love, self-love, romantic, platonic, queer platonic relationships, and a romantic. And then the purple slash dark fuchsia represents visibility of the asexual community, encouraging purposeful efforts to protect and uplift oneself and each other within our society. So, like super, super intentional and care-driven and beautiful and awesome. And I'm just so excited about this.
SPEAKER_02Looks so good, very thoughtful. Really appreciate all the work that was put into that because my gosh, it's a huge project spanning three years, and it's it turned out great, I think.
SPEAKER_01I think so too. And like to pull all the community members and like all of the effort to make sure that they were really hearing what people had to say, which unfortunately, like, it sounds like in their creation of this, they were not really heard as they were trying to get some of the different organizations listen to them. So um definitely recommend going over to their Instagram to like check out that process and and show some support and you know, props. Yeah, that's awesome.
SPEAKER_02Give them a follow. They post some good content. I was scrolling through and I was surprised I hadn't heard of them before, but it also it shows you know just how centralized the asexual community is online, where if you're not in these certain forums, you may not hear about each other.
SPEAKER_01Yep, absolutely. Yeah, I think the whole internet is it's so huge, but that also in so many ways means that you end up really, really siloed and really like in your own little bubble. Um, so I'm excited to have found them.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah, love to know listeners' thoughts. If you know, if you were able to see it here on YouTube or if you heard it, we'd love a comment to know what you think of it and if any of your favorite colors are in there.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I'm excited that we're not losing our purple.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. And it works out nice that there's a yellow. It'll be interesting to see what we end up doing with the gold by the time this episode releases.
SPEAKER_01For sure.
SPEAKER_02Cool. Well, as far as questions go today, our first one is how do hormones impact someone's sex drive? I've been told that my asexuality is due to low hormones and that menopause can make it worse. Seeing that asexuality is common for autistic people has me rethinking that. Is it hormones or our brains?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I don't know. It can be hard because it's like I also know that a lot of ace people get told, like, oh, you're not ace, you just have a hormone thing, and that's why you whatever, whatever. Okay, egg. This is the danger. Say hi. Oh cat. Hi. Together, we're we're almost the ace flag.
SPEAKER_02Oh, cute. And another great reason for folks to watch the video, you get to see egg the kitty.
SPEAKER_01Um, but yeah, I know that this can sometimes be used to kind of tell people that like to um invalidate like people's experience, which sucks, and absolutely hormones impact your sex drive, right? Like that's a lot of um, not all of by any means, but a lot of their job.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and just because hormones are impacting your sex drive doesn't suddenly mean that you can't be asexual. You can still be on the asexuality spectrum if it's hormones that are doing it, if it's depression medication that's doing it, if it's the s life circumstance that's doing it. Whatever impacts your sex drive is as strange as it may sound to folks who are newer to learning about asexuality, those things don't have to be intertwined in that way where it defines your label or your identity.
SPEAKER_01I think it actually, like, all right, we're gonna get um political on main, right? I think it actually speaks to a broader thing in the like queer community that happened of like because some of you were like, oh, it's a lifestyle choice, it's a choice, it's your it's a choice, as societies want to do, we went like hard the other direction. Like, no, you're absolutely born this way, and that's the only way to be queer, right? If you were born in that way, and there's no external factor that like played any role.
SPEAKER_02That's not how that works, so no, no, our identity over time is not this static, unchangeable, immovable truth. And I know some folks would be very sad or upset to hear me say that and hear us talk about this, but our identity is fluid, not that like one day you're gonna be a staunch Republican, and then the next you're gonna be a staunch, whatever. Like your beliefs, your values, your attraction levels, your who you're attracted to, what you're attracted to, all of those things can be malleable over time because we're always growing as people. We're just growing, changing, getting to know ourselves better. Sometimes it's not so much that those things have changed about us, but that we're more attuned to what our truth is. You know, there's so many folks on the asexuality spectrum who were like, Oh, I thought I was actually hypersexual because they were masking and trying to fit in, not so much because that's how they wanted to be or what they felt good about doing necessarily.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and just because who you are today is one thing doesn't mean that who you were yesterday is less valid. And it also doesn't mean that you weren't who you were yesterday. You know what I mean? It doesn't take that away. And so, yeah, I think even if it is your hormones, that doesn't make you more or less ace than if it wasn't your hormones. And if it is your hormones, that's absolutely possible, right? Um, and then what you do with that information is up to you.
SPEAKER_02Because I think the hard piece about conversations like this is that generally the person who's leading them is trying to get you to fit into the allosexual norm. Yes. So, oh, it's probably just your hormones. Let's give you hormone replacement stuff, or let's give you some sort of like stimulant that'll yeah, something that will change these things for you so that you can quote unquote be more normal, which is not not the goal and shouldn't have to be the goal for a lot of folks.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So, like the last part of the question is it hormones or our brains? I have some biology information for me in my friend.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Our hormones are in our brains. Like, really everything about our experience of the world is in our brain. It's the same thing when folks are like, oh, that that anxiety is just in your brain. Yeah, babe. Where the fuck else did you think it was? What do you mean? It doesn't make it less real. And neither does your asexuality being in your hormones and or your brain.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah. And if you had high sex drive, you could still be asexual. So you know, I think that's the other thing that gets conflated a lot here is that, well, if it's all in your brain, then you change your brain, and that'll change your reality, and then that'll change It's all so intertwined that it's hard to say that adjusting one thing is going to adjust all the other things. It just doesn't really work like that.
SPEAKER_01At all. Like, we see this a lot with like neuronormativity, right? With like there is only one right way. And I think the actual truth is that there is no wrong way.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01There's not not like not only is there not one right way, there is no wrong way to be. And so if you're okay with where your sex drive is, be okay with where your sex drive is. So I think that there can be reasons, really valid reasons, to want to see if it's mutable at all, but if it's just a like because I'm supposed to XYZ.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, different if you miss it and want to make some movement or change, but even then, there's no saying that increasing certain hormones or balancing things out in a certain way is going to cause a spike in libido. That's also not a guarantee. There's also a lot to be said for the placebo effect. So sometimes doing things that don't actually physically do anything to your brain or hormones can still change your sex drive. So all that to say, like, we're kind of guessing at what controls sex drive because there are so many components to that. And then secondly, only do something about it if you want to do something about it. Don't don't feel pressured. I can't tell in this question if someone feels pressured or not, but yeah, I think if if you do feel pressured, or if you don't know if you feel pressured, it's worthwhile to like kind of check in.
SPEAKER_01Um, you know, that minute pause can make it worse. Like it seeing that asexuality is common in autistic people has me like rethinking that. Like there are lots of ways and reasons that people both can be asexual and can find themselves experiencing something close to the asexuality like spectrum, um, or something on the asexuality spectrum, right? Um, because that's it too, is like it it is a spectrum. Okay. Egg spec. Yeah. At least she's not on the desk.
unknownOh.
SPEAKER_01But we're just gonna hope she doesn't unplug anything.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, please cooperate, Egg, if you're gonna be a guest on the podcast.
SPEAKER_01Genuinely. Come on now. You're a mascot, you gotta get it together.
SPEAKER_02Right. Yeah, so I I hope that that answers that question. There's lots of information online about how hormones do and don't affect sex drive. The hard thing is most of those are also written with that allosexual perspective in mind, and so it may not be the most strength-based stuff, and it may not be the most accurate stuff to your experience.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, exactly. I think that's the thing, is it gets really hard when it's like, oh, well, just look at what the research says. The research isn't always affirming and things like that, and um, see if you're really mindful of like who are the researchers and what is their goal with the research and who was funding the research and what is their goal, and like it's a whole bunch of stuff. This was the subject of many a uh research methods class in both undergrad and grad school for me.
SPEAKER_02Ugh, yeah, same here. And I'll just say already we're at a disadvantage because you're you know, if you go to look up research, you're looking up autism, asexuality, and menopause. All those groups of yeah, all those groups of folks have been misrepresented, treated as medical mysteries, uh, experimented on. It's just, yeah. I would look forward to the case.
SPEAKER_01You're already talking about with both menopause, so like older folks with uterine or um like feminized folks or like things like that, right? AFab folks, that you're talking about a group that already is inherently not seen as sexual, and then same thing with autistic folks, right? That like there's a lot of infantilization, so like almost the opposite end of that spectrum, right? A lot of infantilization, a lot of like that kind of stuff that means you're talking about two groups that are already not really thought of as being sexual, like in an appropriate way, and then trying to figure out like what would be the rates of aloe versus asexuality within that again, asexuality just being not well studied in the first place. It's just like a mess.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02I do a presentation with another a-spec colleague named uh Heidi, and they shared a research thing with with me, and we looked at the tool that was used to determine asexuality. Neither of us scored in as asexual, so keep that in mind too. And that wasn't even that old of a study. That was like within the last 10 years, I believe. So take everything with a little bit of uh grain of salt. I'll have to pass the quiz to Sabrina to see if she passes or not.
SPEAKER_01Oh, I definitely won't.
SPEAKER_02I definitely won't. Uh, and then uh our second question why does it make me uncomfortable when my friends talk about their sex lives or interests? I am a 22-year-old sex favorable ace, and it feels weird that it makes me uncomfy, but honestly, that's just how it feels every time, especially if PDA is involved. I can't handle it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I'm gonna assume this PDA is uh public displays of affection. Probably not.
SPEAKER_01My brain did not. I was like, what is involved? Interesting. Um that makes a lot more sense. Um, and it's a helpful reminder. I was gonna say, can you explain to our audience what sex favorable ace is?
SPEAKER_02Uh yes, these are folks that are generally more comfortable engaging in sexual behaviors, thoughts, conversation, stuff like that. Um and then on the opposing end here is sex repulsed, which yeah, there's like a lot of interesting social dynamics we could go into if we ever want to talk about the larger a-spec community and all the different beliefs and gatekeeping that occurs. But for this question, we don't have to go there. Um Yeah. So this person's saying generally they are okay with some forms of sex, either talking about it, doing it, looking at it, who knows. But when their friends talk about their sex lives or interests, not comfortable.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I almost wonder if part of it is that like, are you sex favorable in terms of you are okay with doing it? Like, I saw someone I'm gonna forget their name, and I feel bad about that. But they were talking about being ace um on a podcast, and they were talking about like the way they explain it for themselves, like their partner really likes bowling, and they don't really like bowling at all. And but they're like willing to go bowling with their partner, probably not every time, but like some of the times I'm willing to go bowling with you, but like I don't I don't love bowling, but some people hate bowling um and would never go bowling, and so it's like I wonder are you open to going bowling, but would you talk about bowling? You know what I mean? Like, are you open to having a sexual experience, but you wouldn't really want to talk about it even with your partner? Um, and so it might just be that like actually having the conversations about it is no matter what, like uncomfortable.
SPEAKER_02That's a great point. You know, my brain went more towards the mental, what are those internal thoughts side of things? Because I have some friends who are on the asexuality spectrum, and they really, when they're in a relationship, they're like they've said, I hope nobody's thinking about whether or not my partner and I have sex or what we do. I really it grosses me out to think that other people are seeing me through that lens, even though they are sex favorable, as far as I know. And that side of like being perceived in that way, being thought of in that way, not wanting speculation, not wanting almost the thought invasion of privacy feels uncomfortable, and I wonder if that could be at play for this person too.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, there is something really different happening when people are talking about sex, and I think that there can be parts of that that like regardless of how sex favorable you are, or like even allosexual people might not want to talk about it based in their upbringing or like their communities, understanding of sex and sexuality, and like a lot of different things can make us uncomfortable about that. Um, versus like I know some people whose like whole family would talk very openly about their sex lives, and like that it I think there are also parts of this kind of like the last one where it's like it may or may not have to do with your asexuality that it grosses you out.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely, and as you're saying it, I'm thinking too there are certain groups of people who tend to talk about sex in a certain way that I would not I also would not feel comfortable, you know. If you get me in a room with a bunch of cishet men who have a very certain idea of women and beauty and standards and what constitutes as like a good sexual partner versus a bad sexual partner, I don't really want to be part of those conversations. I don't like hearing them. It it's offensive, hurtful, honestly, generally. Uh so I wonder too, when what you're saying, like how are the friends discussing it and is That may be part of it. And then the PDA part, just because we can talk about or think about something, we don't always want to see it. So that also makes sense that if the watching public displays of affection makes you uncomfortable, that's okay. I I don't know if I can explain where that stems from, but it's lots of people feel that way.
SPEAKER_01I think it can be hard to watch. I even have a hard time sometimes with watching two people hug. Because A, I'm just like, what am I supposed to be doing? Like, am I supposed to watch you do the it's the same way I feel about eye contact in general? Like, am I supposed to be like looking at you really hard or like looking away or like this is going on for a long time? I already feel that about hugs with myself, is like this is going on for a long time. Like, you know what I mean? Where it's just like at some point.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01What's happening?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And I wonder if that's yeah. I know some people who would just be like, oh, people are hugging. Bring it in. I'm coming in for the hug too. Beyond me, that would not be my go-to at all. I'm more on your side of things there.
SPEAKER_01But I will hug friends, especially when they are like, hey, can I have a hug? Like, and I can have a choice in how I'm feeling and like our what our relationship is and things like that. But like, yeah, I often am like eye darting and I don't care what to do. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, and so watching it is worse, even worse. Because at least when I'm hugging someone, like there is like I'm like, okay, well, like I know that there have been studies about like, you know, your brain releasing fucking happy chemicals or something when you would hug and and oxytocin and all that stuff, sure. Um watching someone do it, oh my god, free me from this person.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and depending on what PDA is being discussed, I mean, a quick peck on the lips between your friends, uh okay. Them for multiple minutes, just no thank you. Uh could you do that later somewhere else? Can I step out?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I'm gonna be wherever the snacks are.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And yeah, I don't know. I've never looked in to see if there's research on why people have such different views on that, but I would assume a lot of it is the cultural piece. Some of it is probably your own sexuality and your own biases and stuff. But like maybe pe someone's listening and going, wow, Caden Sabrina really have not unpacked something. Who knows what it is? I don't know what it is yet, but maybe we haven't unpacked something. And if we did, maybe we'd be slightly more comfortable or have a different take on it. I don't know.
SPEAKER_01I also think that my aversion to watching people hug hurts no one. Yeah. Even if they were like, Oh, you haven't unpacked it. Okay. I mean, I don't know that I'm gonna put I have other shit to unpack, my friends. Um, I have cool empty to talk about in therapy. So I don't know that unpacking something like that were like the biggest thing that might happen is that I just like take my phone out and kind of scroll Instagram for two seconds. Or like in the case of when my friends talk about just ask them not to do that around me, step out of the room, go do what I like. There's just so many other solvable ways that I don't know that this is one of those things where it's like, okay, you need to figure out how to get comfortable with this, even if there were some underlying reason why you want.
SPEAKER_02I agree. I agree. I would if there's something to unpack, listeners, please let us know. Because the reason I would want to unpack it is if it's somehow affecting and impacting the way I interact with people in other ways, or the way I think about myself or something. Sometimes if I don't know what there is to unpack, it might actually be causing some subconscious bias or something in other places. So we're open to hearing it. I'd love to know. I mean, maybe I'll do a little googling when we wrap up here today and spend the weekend trying to find like what is under that, and then we can revisit it if I find something.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. That's fair. I mean, like, I think that makes sense. I also just think that there are ways in which like sometimes things are imperfect. And all the time people are imperfect. And so as long as I'm a people, I'm going to expect imperfection from me. And as long as the people in my life are not saying, hey, you know, you keep having this expectation of me or you keep engaging with me like this or like whatever, it's really hurting me and it's hurting our relationship. Like, I'm gonna keep doing the work that I can and the work that I know that I need to. Um and if that work which is primarily like seeing all people as people and worthy and valuable and worthwhile, and then actually putting into action, like living that that understanding, right?
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01If somewhere in there it becomes like, yeah, you gotta learn how to stare people down as they give hugs, I will unpack that. But I think it would also then go against the value that I have around like it is okay to not be like others.
SPEAKER_02Also, it's okay to not participate and opt out, you know. Uh yeah, curious to know if there's something that that we're missing. But generally, when things like that happen and I or folks I've worked with have set boundaries, the allosexual friends are not usually coming back being like, Well, you're discriminating against me, or oh, that view you have is harmful because XYZ. Yeah, I don't really hear that ever. So hopefully that means that this is not unintentionally doing some harm to folks, and it's just a comfort level and a yeah, a boundary that you can set.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01And then just make sure that you're making friends with people who will let you know if and when it begins to be harmful.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And that will respect your your boundary.
SPEAKER_01For sure. That part. On Upping the Ante, we are going to answer why is it always the a sexual person who has to give up monogamy and compromise and do things that we don't want to do?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Give up monogamy. Interesting. And talk about how we can figure out boundaries and support ourselves in relationships. So we're going to keep on the boundary talk. Um, over on Upping the Ante. That's our exclusive bonus content over on Patreon. But it is now we have a private RSS feed. So um, if you subscribe, then you can just upload that uh uh RSS feed into your like streaming service of choice, Spotify, Apple, whatever, and listen like it was a regular regular podcast. So super easy peasy. Um, and so we're gonna go record that. You can expect new episodes on Tuesdays. You can find Kate at CryptoLearns, you can find me at Radical Insights Consulting on Facebook or on Instagram, you can add a dot com at the end for our website. Follow the podcast on Facebook and Instagram at Aces Up Your Sleeve Pods you can interact with us and see when new episodes are released. If you have questions for us, which we would love to answer, visit Mirokink.org slash AUIS and send it our way. Um if you have ways that it would be easier for you to reach out to us with questions, tell us. Um tell us in on Facebook, on Instagram at MiroKink.org slash AUIS. Fucking email us, I'll give a thought. Let us know because we want to hear and we want to remove barriers. So we're gonna go record that now. Thank you so much for listening. We appreciate you. And remember that tiers on our Patreon start as low as four dollars a month. So if you want to hear our continued conversation, that's where it is. We're gonna keep on keeping on over there.
SPEAKER_02And your fees currently just go towards reimbursing for some of the fees that we spend on producing the podcast and getting it posted. So thank you for supporting us.
SPEAKER_01Thanks so much. Bye bye.
