EMDR WITH DANI AND ALLY

From Stuck to Progress: Clinician Strategies in Phase 4 Reprocessing

• Dani & Ally • Episode 8

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What Happens During Phase 4 Reprocessing And How Do Clinicians Handle "Stuck Points"?

Phase 4 is where EMDR gets real—breakthroughs, body shifts, and sometimes, brick walls. We pull back the curtain on reprocessing so you can recognize the difference between genuine relief and a protector slamming the brakes. From setting clean baselines to closing sessions with solid stabilization, we map the decision points that keep clients safe and moving forward.

We start with the nuts and bolts of assessment—image, negative and positive beliefs, SUDS, VOC, emotion, and body sensations—then show how those baselines guide bilateral stimulation. Not every client thrives with a light bar; some regulate best with therapist-guided eye movements, tappers, or even rhythmic walking. The aim isn’t novelty, it’s fit. You’ll hear how we choose first targets to build confidence, why a mid-range SUDS can be wiser than the “big 1,” and how to pace reprocessing across sessions without leaving a client activated.

When progress stalls, we trace the common culprits: looping, network overload, and the classic too-fast drop from 10 to 0. We use parts work to befriend protectors, negotiate permission, and avoid power struggles with the nervous system. If a blocking belief is in the way—“If I heal, it didn’t happen,” “If I let go, I’ll lose control”—we briefly integrate cognitive work to clear the path and return to sets. For newer clinicians, we underline the core truth: phases 1 and 2 are EMDR. Relationship, resourcing, and case conceptualization are not detours; they are the road. With clear frameworks and flexible tools, phase 4 becomes less about forcing change and more about guiding the system toward adaptive resolution.

If you’re ready to sharpen your reprocessing skills, get practical with stuck points, and help clients leave sessions grounded, this conversation will meet you where you work—moment by moment, set by set. Subscribe, share with a colleague, and leave a review with your favorite takeaway so we can keep building smarter care together.

To learn more about EMDR WITH DANI AND ALLY visit:
https://www.DaniandAlly.com
EMDR WITH DANI AND ALLY
254-230-4994

SPEAKER_01:

Hey there, I'm Danny from Ontario, Canada. And I'm Allie from Texas.

SPEAKER_04:

Welcome to EMDR with Danny and Allie, your go-to space for collaborative consultation that connects and grows one clinician at a time. I'm your voice guide, not Danny, not Allie, here to introduce your host, Danny in Ontario, Canada, and Allie in Texas. Together they train clinicians around the globe and offer EMDR therapy that's as supportive as a great pair of walking shoes. Steady, reliable, and just what you need to walk alongside your clients. Whether you're a seasoned therapist or just starting your EMDR journey, you're in the right place to connect, learn, and grow without having to log thousands of miles. Let's get started.

SPEAKER_00:

Phase four of EMDR can be powerful, but what happens when clients hit a roadblock? Welcome back, everyone. I'm Chelsea Earlywine, co-host and producer, back in the studio with the host of EMDR with Danny and Allie. Danny and Allie, how are you? Good. Yes, thank you. Good, good. Well, let's dive in. So phase four of EMDR is often where the deepest healing happens, but it can also be where clients feel stuck. So can you walk us through what happens during this stage and how clinicians can best support clients through those stuck points?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, so um when we're sort of starting with phase four uh reprocessing, we first start with getting an assessment of the target, which is technically phase three. But what we're doing is we're activating all of the elements of that target memory with the purpose of beginning to reprocess it. So we get the client to tell us what is, you know, what is the worst part of that for you? And then an image that comes to mind when they think about the worst part of it. What are what is the negative belief that you have about yourself that's related to this memory? So what words go best with it? Um, what would you like to believe about yourself now? Get them to sort of identify that positive belief. How strong is that? And then what are the emotions and where do we feel that in the body? And then we start to reprocess it using bilateral stimulation, which can be either so many different ways. You can use um eye movements with sort of a light bar, you can use manual eye movements, sort of like that, um, theratappers where you get like a little bit of a buzzing sensation in each hand, or lots of variations of that. Um I recently did a session with uh someone who just wanted to sort of like walk or run um as their um part of their bilateral, and so we did that as well.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, that's interesting. And and do you find uh each of those different modalities, I guess, uh equally effective?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it depends on the client. So the person who wanted to do the running was um one of my veterans, and so because they're so used to doing that movement uh as part of their training, that was just you know what made EMDR feel less hokey for this person, so to speak. And so that's what we decided to do.

SPEAKER_00:

That's interesting. So Ali, can you describe this phase four reprocessing? What does that look like in practice?

SPEAKER_03:

That's a great question. So in practice, like Danielle said, we use generally the standard protocol. So we are asking the client, what is the event that we're targeting first? And there's a wide variety of ways that we can go about choosing the first target that we work with. Sometimes it may be the most challenging uh situation, sometimes it may be the least uh stressful event. We call that the suds, whether it's like a on a scale from zero to 10, we could start with something that was maybe a five or less so that they can get used to the process and uh find some encouragement quicker before diving into something harder. So it does take time to figure out where to start with a client and what's the most helpful for them. But we start with a standard protocol. So we're identifying the target, we are asking them, what is the picture that represents the worst part of that event for you? And then what is that negative cognition that it's left you believing about yourself? For example, like I am not safe, right? The positive cognition, what would you want to believe about yourself in this situation? Well, I'm safe now would be a good one for that situation, right? And then we take the VOC, which is basically helping us identify how much on a scale from one to seven do they believe right now that I am safe? So that way we get a baseline. When then we identify what emotions does it bring up for you, what body sensations, how disturbing it is on a scale from zero to ten. So if someone is starting, let's say at an eight, then we have another baseline, what we're working with. How much are they believing this positive cognition, which is ultimately the goal, right? How, and then also how disturbing is it and where are they feeling it in their body? So then we call that activation. We've activated the client then. So we would not want to do this part of the process at an end of a session because we would the client would leave activated and not have anywhere or anything to to work on, right? So we activate that memory and then we start reprocessing it through the bilateral, whichever modality that they have um chosen to start with. And it's always, you know, that's where the clinician relationship really comes into play because every client is so different. Some need multiple ways of targeting, you know, and and um helping them process, and then others are great with just the regular eye movements or the light bar or the tappers that we're holding. And then others want to be more creative, others need to stand up, others need to use maybe what we call EMDR 2.0, which is like taxing that working memory double or triple. So, and then it's a process, then we're working through that target. Sometimes we may get through that full target during one session, and then sometimes, depending on the target, it may take a couple of sessions. So in a session, what that would look like is working through as much as time allows for, and then helping the client come back to a place where they are grounded and they we the so this is where we pull back in our phase one and two resources that we've done to make sure that a client feels stable and able to go back to work or drive their car or whatever it may be.

SPEAKER_00:

That feels very crucial to leave feeling regulated and not in that space of you know, revisiting something traumatic. That feels very important. And so, Danny, what are some of the common stuck points that clinicians encounter during this phase four?

SPEAKER_02:

One of the ones that um happens frequently for me is the client who says, you know, oh, I'm I'm good now. And it seems like it's it just seems premature. It seems like, well, this was, you know, really, really high. You know, when I asked you how disturbing this was, is this like a 10? I call that suddy. This was a really suddy memory. Um now it's just come down to, you know, like a zero um with just a few sets. And so that's where I sort of start to get curious with the client around is there something else happening here? Um, have they started to sort of overintellectualize it? Is there something getting in the way of them sort of going into it a little bit more? And so one of the things that um because I love talking about parts um in sessions with clients, sometimes I'll talk about, you know, are all parts really on board with processing this? Do we have permission um from that wounded part of you to go there? Um, and sometimes we don't. Um, and so we have to back up and we have to slow down and honor what's happening for them.

SPEAKER_00:

Wow. And uh Danny, tell me more about the the parts. You're talking about the different parts that need to be on board. Can you elaborate on that a little bit?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah. So in EMDR, you know, amongst all of us, we have so many ways that we talk about parts. Um, you know, whether it's sort of like different ego states for a client, um, or it is um more of like the structural dissociation model. The one that is really common right now, um, and I think because it offers a really structured approach is um internal family systems. And so you are you're sort of working to explore different parts of self and kind of identify what is their purpose, what is their role, what is their function, and when did that emotional learning happen? In other words, where do they get their job? And sort of help the client to start to function in this way. And often those protectors, they are, they just they have, you know, they have really important jobs to play and they're just trying to keep those wounded parts safe. And so we're just trying to get the client to first notice their presence, um, see if they can tune in and just befriend them. Um, and then, you know, sometimes we have to gently ask, you know, is it okay if that part of you just kind of steps to the side a little bit? And now what do you notice? And that often will help to sort of get them to move along.

SPEAKER_00:

And Ali, how do you help the clients move through these moments without losing overall momentum in the in the process?

SPEAKER_03:

It's a great question. I was gonna say a lot of times, uh when a client may be like repeating things uh or looping in their material, a lot of times it means a target may be too complex and that there may be a network overload. So a part of their self is blocking more processing, like she talked about the protector part. And so sometimes we have to piece it separately and set this target to the side because there's another target that we may need to work on first that's blocking something earlier or something different that we need to table. Other ways we like to use blocking beliefs questionnaire. So sometimes we may table the target as well and work through the blocking beliefs and see if there is a belief that they have that is blocking them from moving forward. And then sometimes that's where we have to integrate some talk cognitive therapy in between the reprocessing, because sometimes clients really need to talk about well, what would it actually look like if I did get better? Almost like my trauma is part of my comfort or my challenge. What would I be without this? Or if I get better, does that mean that it didn't happen? So there's a lot of questions to ask when you are working with the client. And so that's where that clinician rapport and honest feedback and conversation is so valuable, like in the process. Whether what tapper modality right is working at the same time, and then what's really going on. So sometimes the beauty of EMDR is you don't have to share as much feedback, right? And in it, and it's you're able to process it really well without very much verbal. Well, other times clients really need the verbal piece to unlock and to help them move forward. So it really is that's where the clinical judgment just really comes into play, and our gut intuition um combination of the two because it's there's a there's so much creativity that goes into it because every client is so different. There's certain things that stay that are kind of set material, and then there's other areas that are just creativity and your gut intuition.

SPEAKER_00:

So yeah, wow, it's it's complex, right? Um, Danny, before we close out, do you have any tips for newer clinicians that are just getting started and maybe don't have all of the experience under their belt yet to make these decisions in phase four?

SPEAKER_02:

Absolutely. Sometimes I find um, and and Allie and I are talking about this a little bit too in the training that we're that we're putting out on January 30th. Sometimes I find that with newer clinicians, they sort of, you know, from their training, there's a rush to implement that protocol really quickly. And so they don't recognize the EMDR work that they're already doing as they're sort of um getting to know the client, understanding them, building that therapeutic rapport, and then moving into phase two. And so they want to just quickly find the targets because you know, I have to make sure that I implement, you know, this protocol as quickly as possible. And so it's like all the work you're doing already is already EMDR. We're leading you up to doing that processing, but that relationship is so critical to making that lasting change. And you need to understand what is the issue that you're treating with EMDR. You know, it's not just about finding the targets. Uh, EMDR clinicians are really good at finding the targets, it's about what is it that we're actually treating? Um, yeah, and spending that time in phase two, just really working to resource the client and meet those needs. Oh, that's great.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, thank you both so much for helping us understand phase four reprocessing and those tricky stuck points. It's clear that with the right tools, clinicians can truly guide their clients through very tough moments like this. Thank you so much, and we'll see you both next time.

SPEAKER_01:

Hey there, I'm Danny from Ontario, Canada. And I'm Allie from Texas.

SPEAKER_04:

That wraps up another insightful episode of EMDR with Danny and Ally, where our slogan, collaborative consultation that connects and grows one clinician at a time, isn't just catchy. It's our mission. Want more tools, training, or just need to ask Danny or Ally a question? Visit Danny at Ally.com or call or text 254-230-4994. Thanks for tuning in. And remember, the best healing starts with connection.