Womens health, gender pain gap

A frank discussion about gender bias in womens health.

Food, fads and favourite meals.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Janet and Jane, Janet and Jay, Jane and Jane. Hello, it's been a very long time since we've had a chat, Mary. I hope you're okay. Today we're talking about women's health and the gender pain gap. And we've been looking at some data about the disparity between um men's treatment and women's treatment.

SPEAKER_02 0:30

Absolutely, yeah. Very, very different.

SPEAKER_01 0:32

The excuses that are given to women for the pain that they're suffering, which is horrendous.

SPEAKER_02 0:41

Um, I've just looked up um what age breast screen, routine breast screening starts for women. Um, it's offered to women aged 50 to 70. That I find that incredible considering that you know women have breasts from the time that they're born that they yeah, and younger women are get more younger women are getting diagnosed with breast cancer. So why is it you know a routine for older women?

SPEAKER_01 1:12

Who made the decision? Who makes the decision of when the screening starts and the screening ends? I'd I'd be really interested to know if that's a male-dominated decision or not. And I might I might be wrong, I'm holding my hands up, I could be completely wrong. But is it a male-dominated um decision that's that's being made on that? Because I'm talking about screening, yeah, we've we've just had a bit of a conversation about this, haven't we? Yeah, I had to go for quite an intensive um internal examination recently. And um I was told that uh I would no longer I'm no longer eligible for smear tests because I'm 63. Absolutely ridiculous. Now, as far as I know, I mean it's probably too much information if my children are listening or Mary, it might be too much information for you. But I I'm sure that if you're still sexually active, it doesn't matter how old you are. Absolutely, and it shouldn't matter how old you are, you should still be screened for cervical cancer.

SPEAKER_02 2:26

Absolutely, yeah, absolutely. But again, we're going back to this whole process of what's going on in the world with regards to gender bias because it's the same thing, you know, women are treated very, very differently to men when it comes to illnesses. Um it's saying that um prostate screening for men is 50, but typically around 40 to 45 are at higher risk.

SPEAKER_01 2:57

Yeah, so it's it's it's in both cases. Yeah. Who is making this decision? Yeah. And is it all down to cost? Possibly. Oh, we're probably talking about cost, aren't we?

SPEAKER_02 3:10

Yeah. But shouldn't we be talking about lives rather than? I think so, but then I'm gonna get on to my political high and mighty share soapbox, whatever you want. You know, if we if we talk about cost and everything, we are at a mature age of our lives.

SPEAKER_01 3:28

Oh, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 3:29

And we have been paying um into the system since we were of a workable age. Yeah, surely that's the same as paying privately, because we're paying for it. So therefore, where does I've never actually looked at it like that, but you're right. We're paying for this. So why are we then told to go out and get private this and private that and private this? Because ultimately we're already paying for it, and therefore there should be no limitations on this. No, um, and there should be no limitations on whether you're female or male. Women should be treated no differently to men just because we don't complain as much as your lovely husband had shared.

SPEAKER_01 4:15

Yeah, yeah. So Paul actually said that the um the reason that women aren't treated as quickly as men is because women don't complain as often as men. But that's not it it is right in some some cases, I think, but when women do complain, they're not listened to, they are not listened to their pain, um, even from a young age, even from you know, 14 with period pains, um, but they might not be period pains, but they're just being fobbed off or it's because of your age, or it's growing pains, it's period pains, it's because you're um it's all to do with your age and your body's changing, and then when that's happened, what do they go to next? Oh, it's you know, it's because it's still because of your periods. Oh, it's that time of the month, absolutely, and then you you're fobbed off constantly.

SPEAKER_02 5:15

There's a uh a a famous uh person celebrity, yes, who won't say her name, but bless her, who is suffering for from um a diagnosis of PMDD, yeah, um, which isn't really talked about.

SPEAKER_01 5:36

No, it's not, and she was fobbed off. Oh, for those around us, PMDD premenstrual dysmorphic disorder. Okay, um, and it is an actual thing. It is an actual thing. Well, you know somebody who is has just been literally diagnosed with us. Um and it's the most awful thing, but this poor girl was sent away, she was left feeling ashamed, she was left feeling left feeling dismissed by the medical um institutions because it was just old, you know, pull yourself together basically, you're having a period, what's wrong with you, you know? Yeah, all women have to suffer from it, and that's that's unfortunately what a lot of women are told they're completely dismissed because of their gender. Yeah, that's what your body's supposed to do, get on with it, and it's horrendous, it's absolutely horrendous. And some of the symptoms for this um awful disease are fatigue and low energy, sadness, hopelessness, and thoughts of suicide can be had as well. Um anxiety, out of control feelings, cravings, mood swings, crying for no reason, yeah, and screaming for no reason, panic attacks, and so many other involving the pain of it as well. Yeah. Um, and she has talked openly about it. Yeah, she has talked openly about it, and I'm glad she has because there are an awful lot of other women that are probably suffering in silence because of this.

SPEAKER_02 7:22

Yeah, and I and I need to. I mean, I I I'm close to a situation like this, and I actually need to do some research into this because it's quite scary for me knowing that this is out there and there isn't enough support, and and I didn't know enough about it to be able to support any anybody. You know, even in my job at at um where I work, if somebody had come to me with regards to that, because they're of that age that they're starting to I don't know anything about these things, I need to do a bit of research. Yeah, but I do think that it's lack do you? I don't know whether it you can't even say, is it because there's more male doctors than female doctors?

SPEAKER_01 8:07

Because I don't even know whether that is or whether it isn't, or whether it's just lack of research that people probably lack of research, and it's it's an embedded thing. Yeah, I think it's an embedded thing in the medical profession where they just say, Oh, you know, uh, you've got a headache. When when did you have your last period? Or I mean in my case it's um menopause. Yeah. And the the amount of um symptoms you have with menopause is horrendous. Yeah. Word finding, yeah, uh brain fog, fatigue, anxiety, yeah. Um there's just so so many different things. But if you go to the doctors with a certain symptom, they will just fob it up as oh, it's menopause.

SPEAKER_02 8:58

Which is which brings me to a case of I it's quite close actually, because I've gone to the doctors about my brain fog and my um uh lack of word finding, but I've gone there from a different perspective because um you know my family um have a herit, I don't know what's the word, heritage of it's not heritage, is it? Um pre-diagnosis of onset early.

SPEAKER_01 9:27

Oh right. Pre what's what's the word? This is this is this is it propensity. Yeah, propensity, is that the right word? I'm not reading Mary Mary.

SPEAKER_02 9:39

But anyway, basically, I am worrying because obviously early onset dementia is prone within my family. Um, and word finding in and not being able to remember things and not being able to think why did I do that there and why did I do that there.

SPEAKER_01 9:59

And names.

SPEAKER_02 9:59

Yeah, and names, awful. And do you know what I got top with the doctor? No, it's probably just menopause. I asked to go to a memory clinic to find out. I'm still waiting. That was over a year ago. Do you think they've forgotten? They've probably forgot me, yeah. Absolutely. Forgot me. And also, I don't think there was I was taken seriously. But actually, you know.

SPEAKER_01 10:26

The trouble is that women women aren't always taken seriously. I mean, can would you mind recounting? I know this is quite a painful story for you, but would you mind recounting that story concerning your son? Please.

SPEAKER_02 10:42

Yeah, so um I apologize for some people because they might find this difficult to listen to, but you know, it's reality, it's life, it's what happened. Um my son um collapsed after doing an 18 uh 1600 metre swimming badge, and um I obviously took him to the hospital, and he was I was told that um he they did a urine test and everything else because he said that obviously it was hurting him to go to the toilet, and uh he I was told that he um had a urine infection and he needed a circumcision. So that's what basically happened. And after he'd had the circumcision, um, I got told that he'd be sore for the first couple of days, he might not want to pee, and it might be difficult for him. Um, this then carried on, and a week later I took him back to the hospital because he was screaming in pain, unable to go to the toilet. And uh I was told, um, and I said it's it's not rocket science, you know, he can't go to the toilet. Um something's wrong. You don't need to be a doctor to know that something's wrong. And I basically got told by a nurse that I was being neurotic, and there was I was just being overly motherly, and there was nothing wrong with him. He'd had a circumcision, he didn't want to go to the toilet. Obviously, um I did get um we won't we won't say the name of the hospital, but there were witnesses um at the time, uh, people who'd got children on ward who were absolutely uh taken back by this situation. I was then moved into a side ward, and um a consultant was brought back in uh and they took my son down. And instead of cafeterising him through his penis because it was getting sorer, which is quite interesting because obviously, as I said, I'm not a rocket scientist, but when they cafeterized him, he could go to the toilet, and when they took the cafeter out, he couldn't. Kind of like tells you that there's a blockage, but um they then put a catheter into his bladder through the stomach, and they zipped me off to Birmingham Children's Hospital where 48 hours later I was told he got cancer of the bladder, but I'm neurotic, but I wasn't, so it's just a case, so it's not always it's not always a case of uh our health where we're not listened to.

SPEAKER_01 13:17

I I did a bit of an experiment actually, it was just before I started seeing uh my husband, and uh I dyed my hair, so I'd I I've always been like blondey, something like that. Yeah, and I dyed my hair dark, yeah. And uh to start with, people used to walk past me in the street because they just didn't recognise me. Yeah, I had to say it's me. Um, but I was I started a campaign to stop a um like a slot machine place being opened on Clement Street, right? Okay, which is reasonably in our area, and I was taken completely seriously, and a couple of years before I had started tried to start a campaign of something very similar and was completely ignored. Wow. And I'd got dark hair and I was taken seriously, but when I was blonde, I wasn't.

SPEAKER_02 14:19

Wow, and that's does that still happen today? Because I believe it does.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

Uh, people think I'm a complete dips, which I have to be fair, and my husband would probably agree with you any minute. Yeah, I actually am a complete dips, but you know, it was the fact that I was taken to but I think women's voice but again that goes back to gender, doesn't it? And stereotypes and and women's voices are not being heard, women's voices are not being heard, and I know that we do we did a little bit of research about this earlier on. Well, you were doing some research about it, Jane, and you were you said to me that there were gaps in the diagnosis of um of women compared to men. So um Imperial College London was.

SPEAKER_02 15:15

I have done lots of research and also Stanton.

SPEAKER_01 15:18

It took four and a half years longer to diagnose a woman with diabetes than it did to diagnose a man.

SPEAKER_02 15:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:27

Two and a half years longer to diagnose cancer than a man. Um and three times there was it was the disparity between uh the fact that any I'm I'm I'm sorry, menopausal brain is kicking in. Any investigations or any research had been done on male bodies.

SPEAKER_02 15:55

Yeah, absolutely, yeah. That's what they're saying.

SPEAKER_01 15:57

And they they're saying that not enough research is being done on female anatomy to so that it can be totally understood and not just written off as there you go, love, pat on the head, it's your period time. And they found an extra molecule. They found an extra molecule. Now, let me you'll hear me flicking through my notes, Mary. It was called EXIST, X and IST. Uh, and it was a molecule that only occurred in women, and it was a hallmark of autoimmune diseases.

SPEAKER_02 16:34

Autoimmune diseases, yeah. But again, not enough research. Not enough research. So, why is this? You know, let's put it out there into the big wide world. Why is this?

SPEAKER_01 16:45

Why are women's voices not heard? Why are women dying? Yeah. Why are women dying? And the medical institutions are complicit in this because they're not listening to women's pain. And I'm sure you said something earlier on as well about the fact that um if a man goes into a doctor's and complains about a certain pain somewhere, is it immediately investigated, and if it is a cancer, it's caught quite early. Yeah, whereas women's cancers always seem to be caught at stage three. Yeah, that's where it's you know harder to get rid of.

SPEAKER_02 17:21

It's difficult. I mean, I don't know whether this is it this is right, but obviously, having gone through that that experience, I do know that cancer cells mimic themselves very well, like human cell it uh like other cells, and it's harder to diagnose because they say that um they're well basically it it tries to survive. Yeah, um, and um I find it really difficult because uh you go for a breast screening when you're 40.

SPEAKER_01 17:58

If you feel a so well no, you don't you don't get breast screening at 40. 50, sorry, 50. 50. 50. It might even be later than that, you know.

SPEAKER_02 18:07

But I had my first lump in my breast that was removed when I was in my 30s. Now surely it was benign, thank God. But surely if that's already come up at 30, why then wasn't it said, well, okay, you've come for a a lump and we had to remove it because it had to be tested. Surely you should then be picked up to be tested regularly, yeah, because you are therefore susceptible. Yeah, surely, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:41

But no, do you know what I was told the first time I went with a because having felt a lump in my breast? Oh, you've just got naturally lumpy breasts, love. Wow, wow, and I've had uh cyst after cyst aspirated um since then, yeah. Since then, since I was taken seriously, yeah. Well you've just got lumpy breasts, and painful, but that was a woman, that was a woman that told me I've just got lumpy breasts.

SPEAKER_02 19:10

So why are we doing that? You know, why? Because we should be taken really seriously. We should be taken really.

SPEAKER_01 19:18

Even if we are a ditz, we should have our fears recognised and taken seriously and acted up, um, and not just dismissed as a part of the life that a woman has to lead. Yeah. A life of periods, yeah, and then when those stop, your hormone changes, and then when that stops, you've got all your menopause symptoms, and they're they can be horrendous. Some women sail through it. We're not a bother.

SPEAKER_02 19:52

Do you think if we were taken more seriously, then mental health issues would be less? Because surely mental health issues occur as well, by the fact that we're not listened to, yeah, and then we think and get depressed, then get yeah, or you think you're going absolutely mental. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, definitely. But I will tell you a funny story just to give you my my friend um Blessed, she was diagnosed with um a pain in her cheek, and she was out in the cold, that would um it would really affect her, and it fibromyalgia basically, and it took well over 18 months for her to be diagnosed with this. Yeah, um, to the point that she she couldn't even go outside, you know, she was hearing hats and scars, even in the summer, because the pain that went up and into her eye and up into her head was excruciating. But anyway, they finally diagnosed her after she went purple on one tablet because it didn't go the system. She, yeah, she looked so I came around, I went, Do you know you're purple? Yeah, and she went, No, am I really because she couldn't like see it on it, but obviously she she she was purple, so she went back and she couldn't have that that particular send a purple. Uh it it's it can be one of the side effects of it. I won't say the tablet, just in case anybody else is on it and starts as have a panic attack. But anyway, her she was then put on a concoction of tablets, um, and these tablets that she was on made her when she first took within sort of a couple of hours, she was quite high, like oh, it's burning like this. Anyway, one day her daughter had damaged her foot, and we had to take her daughter to the hospital to be checked out. Well, she'd just taken these tablets, so she was fine. Then by the time we were at this hospital, we're sitting in the waiting room and her daughter's in panic. She I Can see that she's getting like antsy and fidgety, and I'm like, oh, and she starts texting, and we're literally texting across each other, right? And talking, but texting like this. I'm thinking, Oh god, oh god, oh god. Anyway, she takes her daughter into the room and she turns round to the doctor and she says, Doc, don't worry, I'm just high on drugs. And the doctor looked at her and I went, No. She went, Oh no, they're legal, it's all legal. But because she wasn't used to this medication, that was her reaction to it as they were getting onto it. And this this poor doctor didn't know whether to take her seriously or not, and I went, No, actually. And then she actually took this medication that she carried around with her at he went, oh okay, but it was slightly amusing. But he did take her seriously, but took her seriously to the point that he thought he was gonna have to send her off to be sanctioned.

SPEAKER_01 22:54

But that brings me to something else, actually. Have you ever been put on a medication that doesn't suit you but been told and then you phone the doctor and said this is not suiting me, it's making me feel really just try it, just keep trying it. Just keep trying it for another couple of weeks and you'll be fine. And I'm like, no, I really I'm not feeling well. I've just I've discounted that. But then I suppose uh to be fair poor husband who's been told not to talk, did just put his hand up in the air, and he'd been told to continue taking a drug which was vile, um, and uh had some horrible, horrible things associated with it, and was just told to carry on taking it. In fact, he ended up taking was it 12 tablets? He increased it every time we complained. Every time he complained that the the tablets were making him poorly, they increased the tablet. Why would you do that? I know, I know. But we're not talking about Paulie's health, we're talking about women's health. So thank you, Paulie, for your input.

SPEAKER_02 23:59

That's just incredible, isn't it? That is incredible. Um I do have a funny story for you. Come on then. I went to the case.

SPEAKER_01 24:07

We need to be a bit lighter now, don't we?

SPEAKER_02 24:09

Yeah, I I went to the hospital to have a scan. Um which bit of you were scanning? My my body scan. Um let's just put it that way. And uh they asked me if I was allergic to anything, and I went absolutely no, no, not allergic to anything. Now bearing in mind in 2019 I got COVID, just saying, uh, ended up with long COVID. I don't know whether this is a symptom now that has occurred from it. Don't know, but anyway, never been allergic to anything. They gave me an injection of dye so that when I went in for the scan, the dye highlighted. Oh, yeah, yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 24:53

Okay, it's like a barium meal type thing, yeah. But through and in too dark.

SPEAKER_02 24:58

Yeah, and uh I was lying there going through, I was going, oh, it's a bit hot in here, isn't it? And she was going, oh no, no, no, you're fine, you're fine. She goes, it's just your nerves, it's just your nerves, don't we? Okay, yeah, okay. I'm going like this. She said, You've got to keep still, and I'm like, I can't, I really itch, I can't, I really itch. Anyway, she goes, No, no, you're fine. So, anyway, come out and fine, get home after I've had this scan, and um I'm scratching all over to the point like I'm like, oh, this is really good. I've got to take all these clothes off. I'm so hot, I'm scratching. Anyway, by the end of the day, I look like Mr. Blobby. I had a severe allergic reaction to the dye, yeah, to the dye, and they had to give me some very quick antibiotics. Uh, they had to give me some steroid cream. Yeah, I look like Mr. Bobby, pink blotches all over me. Oh no, and itching to the point that I got a bottle of calamar lotion and I literally threw it over me.

SPEAKER_01 26:02

Oh god, can you stand calamine lotion? I can't stand the smell of it. I didn't care. No. I itched that much. But did it stop? Did the itching stop with calamar?

SPEAKER_02 26:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:11

Only for a short period of time. Yeah, and then it dries and it goes crispy.

SPEAKER_02 26:15

Yeah, but I was pink anyway, so it didn't really matter.

SPEAKER_01 26:17

I mean, when I say I was pink, I really was pink. I never found that calamine lotion. It smells horrible though. It does smell. It really does. But do you know what smells worse than that? Germaline. No, I quite like the smell of germaline. Oh you weirdo. And I can remember being in Sick Bay when I was in um junior school. We used to have a little sick room. Yeah. Which you don't have anymore, do you? Um, and the smell of detail.

SPEAKER_02 26:52

Oh yeah, but dettle. Do you like that as well? Oh yeah. God, you're odd. Yeah. And Vic loves the smell of Vic, too.

SPEAKER_01 27:02

I now, with this little tickly cough that you've got, you need to rub Vic on your balls. I haven't got any balls. Before we got balls on your feet. Oh, I was gonna say. Before you go to bed, put some worried. Put some Vic on the balls of your feet. Yeah. Uh and it will stop you coughing during the night. Really? Vapo's come up through the bed poorly. Give me a thumbs up if that's right. Thank you. Thumbs up.

unknown 27:28

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 27:29

Yeah, even my mum rubs Vic on her balls now. I can't imagine your mum rubber vic on our balls. Yeah, she does. Yeah. Bit of Vic on your balls.

SPEAKER_02 27:38

Yeah, it works. I'll try that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:40

I don't know any of them.

SPEAKER_02 27:41

Anyway, ladies and gentlemen, did we cure listening to us? We think we've done cures before, haven't we? But you must look at this gender bias because we do need to stop this for women. I know there's men out there that will say, you know, that they got misdiagnosed, and I'm not disputing that you probably have. But there is a massive difference in how women are treated in the medical profession than men. Yes. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for listening. It's been great.

SPEAKER_01 28:08

Something else I was gonna say, and I've completely forgot what it was. Menopause. Menopause. Oh, menopause. If uh you are 30 and over, watch Davina McCall's programme about menopause. It is really interesting, it's very insightful, it will give you information, even if you think you're far too early to be listening to it. Make sure you're prepared because I was not. Uh, and she's brilliant, absolutely brilliant. Um, and I think that's it, my love. I do. All right, thanks, Mary. Thanks, Mary, for listening. Um, I hope you're okay. We haven't seen you, Mary for me is born for for a little while now. Um, and uh we will sign off with um Janet and Jay. Janet and Jay. Jane and Janet. Bye. Bye.