36 - Our 10th Edition All-Star Game

In this episode of the "Grown Men Playing With Toys" podcast, Erik emerges from his mad science cave with an idea to help Steve with the end-of-edition doldrums. The result is the most creative thing they've attempted yet.....the GMPWT 10th Edition All-Star Game.

The rules are simple. 

1. Pull from up to three factions within the larger groupings of Imperium, Chaos, and Xenos
2. Faction 1 units get access to their army rule but no detachments rules, stratagems, or enhancements
3. Faction 2 units get access to a single detachment's rules, stratagems, and enhancements
4. Faction 3 units get access to a single wild-card stratagem from any of their detachments. 
5. Build your team not around what's strongest, but around what has a story. that reminds you of 10th edition. 
6. Put it all on the table and see what happens.

Along the way they cover:

• Hold Our Dice, One Last Time — why the end-of-edition doldrums are real, and why the best cure is the silliest possible idea executed with full commitment
• The All-Star Game Format — how Erik built a three-faction list structure that keeps things competitive, legal, and just chaotic enough to be fun
• Team Chaos — Fulgrim, Fabius Bile, Cultists with a grudge, and a Knight Rampager with a stratagem that makes him everyone's problem even after he dies
• Team Imperium — Whoopsie Daisy the Grand Master who cannot make a five-inch charge, Crowe and his Purifiers, and enough tanks to give Steve Ironstorm flashbacks
• Team Xenos — Necron warriors that refuse to stay dead, dwarves coming out of their box of shame for one last shot at redemption, and Tyranids that all blow up
• The Dating Show — Steve picks his team live, on mic, and pretends it was a difficult decision

Whether you're in the end-of-edition doldrums, a die-hard fan of models that have Deadly Demise, or just someone who wants to hear two grown men get genuinely enjoy a silly but strangely nostalgic idea.....this one's for you.

Check out our other content: https://gmpwt.blog/ | https://www.youtube.com/@GrownMenPlayingWithToys

Transcript

Intro

SPEAKER_01 1:02

Welcome to the Groom Men Playing with Toys Podcast. They say we're too old. We say hold our dice. We're your hosts, Eric and Steve. Eric, I'm not gonna ask you how you're feeling today. I want to do something different. I want to shake it up a little bit, buddy. Dodged a bullet on that one. Well, maybe later we'll ask you how you're feeling. But I don't I don't know. I I so lately, you know, we've been kind of you know trying to figure out, you know, what's going on with 10th, what's going on with 11th, and things have kind of felt like it's in a little bit of a lull and and a you know, kind of stale, and like just I know 10th is coming to an end, so you know, I kind of said we need to do something to kind of, you know, I don't know, make it fun. Um, so you you went off into your little mad science cave over there, and um you said you had an idea, so I'm gonna ask you, what have you been doing?

SPEAKER_00 2:05

So yeah, you're you're right. As a part of the setup, and you know, we're we're a little bit late on this episode. We both have been struggling with the end-of-the-edition doldrums. Um, you know, it both eagerly anticipating 11th edition, enjoying the previews. I I actually haven't played a practice game this week because it's kind of one of those you you know enough about how the new edition is going to look that you don't want to bent burn too many calories on the old edition. But we also want to keep you know talking about this, enjoying the hobby and having fun with it. So I I started working on the idea of with a lot of sports, they do like either mid-season or end of the year, like all-star games. And so I started playing around with the idea of what if we did an end-of-the-edition all-star game? And I love this. And came up with actually a structure that I think would work, and then went off and built a couple of lists, and we're gonna try and play it out to see to see how it works. So I figured we could talk through kind of the the process, how the game would look, some of the rules that I put in place to make sure that it's still a balanced and you know, following the core rules of 10th edition game that isn't so unwieldy that it's it takes away from the fun. And then I kind of want to do like a I built three lists, and I want to do like a dating show type thing where you know, so I already picked mine, uh dealer's rights, I'm picking the the one.

SPEAKER_01 3:50

We all know what you're gonna pick. Hold on, you didn't even need to tell us if there is a chaos aspect to this, we know that that's your jam. Yes, so I'm eliminating you saying emperor's children are the best before we even get there.

SPEAKER_00 4:03

Yeah, so I'm gonna pick that one. And so I kind of want to, you know, play a like a dating game type thing with the other two, and we walk through the other two, and then you pick which one you want to play.

SPEAKER_01 4:15

I I love it. Um, so I I'm I'm very excited to do this. Um, so so as a part of doing this, what we're doing is we're gonna rent some space in our LGS and and you know, take a day to kind of play this out. So it's not just even gonna be a hey, we came up with these cool lists and let's you know list hammer this. We're gonna actually try to do this. Um, so you know, when when you and I were talking about this in like the the green room, I guess we call it, um, you know, we were you were talking about, you know, you wanted to come up with a structure that made it feel, you know, like a good game, you know, have fun, kind of maybe a little more on the silly side. There's gonna be some quirks to it. Um, but I I'm really excited to see how we can maybe blend some factions a little bit, which is really fun to me. Um, and being able to pull in, you know, across the whole edition, we we have some units and things that and characters that have done some crazy things. Um, we've talked about them on here, and it'd be really cool to like kind of give them a last not that 10th is dead yet, but it's coming. Um, give them the last hurrah, um, which I think would be really cool. So I'm I'm very, very, very excited

All-Star Game Rules

SPEAKER_01 5:35

about this. But with that being said, I don't know the structure that you came up with. So can we talk through that before we get into the list and everything? Can we talk through kind of how you see the structure of the game being played and kind of the layout of the game and and how we want to keep this as kind of like fair and and fun and true to true to Warhammer as we possibly can?

SPEAKER_00 6:00

You had me at structure. So yes. Um so first and foremost, the definition that we agreed upon for an all-star game isn't because I've seen these circulating online, you know, YouTube, different podcasts, etc., where they'll do the 10 most broken list from 10th edition. That's not what we're talking about when we say an all-star game. What you know, the first kind of stake in the ground for what we mean by all-star game is playing with the current rule set, with the current attachments, structure, everything else, like the latest balanced data slate, locked-in rules, the latest Munitorum field manual, locked-in points. And it's not necessarily the best and strongest and most powerful units, but instead it's a team made up of models that can be pulled from a diverse set of armies that we have a story from 10th edition from us playing it as to why it belongs in the list. And part of the goal was as a part of building the list and as a part of playing the game to reminisce about some of our favorite moments from the games we played in 10th edition. So every model, it's almost like when you talk about sports All-Star games, and they have the fan voting, which isn't always for the best players, but it's for the most popular ones. The goal was to have the best-looking ones. Yeah, the goal was to have a list where when we look at it, each one of us goes, Oh man, you remember that game when that model did that thing? That was crazy. And it's to try and celebrate those kind of moments and to have a list built up of things that give us those kind of those kind of memories.

SPEAKER_01 7:57

Yeah. Cause I mean, 10th has been pretty awesome across the board. Like I I I think it's been a lot of ups and downs. There's been a little bit of a roller coaster of emotions for for this edition, but for the most part, I think it's been really fun. Um, I I think that the the speed of the game and the changes that are coming are are are just on a whole new level. Um, and so I I can't wait to kind of look back and you know have some characters that are on the board um that you know we get excited about, or even units, because there have been units that that have been, you know, really, really good. And I can think of a whole bunch of them that we've talked about on here. But um, yeah, so so that part I I mean I get a big kick out of it. So also are we taking into consideration units that maybe we are partial to? Because, like I said, sometimes the fans vote for the good-looking units, and I think there are some that maybe they're not the best performers, but and they look good on the board.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

Yes, but it maybe I didn't take it into account as much as you would want me to, and we can cover that when we get to the list. So, but the the big thing is the I didn't just grab the 10 most meta things out there today or the 10 most meta things from 10th edition, crame them into a list and go, Oh, we're gonna play index eldari versus more DACA upon release orcs. Like, no, we're this is playing with the current rule set, but doing a bunch of unit choices and model choices that make us reminisce about our favorite moments from 10th edition. So that's the first part of the structure. Second part of the structure is I divide it into three teams, you know, tried to do the like all-star game equivalent of American League, National League, American Conference, National Conference, those kind of east-west type of approach. So in this case, Team Imperium, Team Chaos, and Team Xenos. And for each team, and this is where I actually spent most of the time in the lab, so to speak, is I tried to think about how you could build a list that would add in some flavor from different factions within that larger grouping and allow them to play with enough of their rules, but you don't get silly broken things that weren't intended. And what I kind of settled on is you for each larger group, so Imperium, Chaos, or Xenos, you can choose from up to three armies when you're building out your quote unquote all-star team. One of the armies, and it's what I found as I was building out the list, is it is actually the one where I probably got the second most of the units from most of the time. You pick the army rule. So if you're picking Necrons, you get reanimation. If you're picking Space Marines, you get Oath of Moment, but you don't get to pick any detachments. You're playing the army rule and you're playing the data sheets, and that's it. So your ability to access stratagems and enhancements, you're you're playing off the core strats, and that's it.

SPEAKER_01 11:21

I I like this because that bound that bounds things in a really good way, right? Um, where because cause as as I was thinking through this, I'm like, oh well, isn't there a lot of like cheeky things that you could do? Like, for instance, like if you had living metal on, I don't know, um on a tiering.

SPEAKER_00 11:41

Some leaks on your Eldar or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

Yeah, like there could be some funky stuff around that, like um, you know, just just kind of you know, combining that with like the detachment, you know, rules, like that could get a little funky. So I like the idea of no detachment rules. You just get to pick what the army rule is, which I think is really fun. Um and you know, you're using core core strats. So I'm in. That's cool.

SPEAKER_00 12:09

So that that's the that's the first layer. So first faction you pick, and it only applies to the units that come from that army that you pick. So again, I'll use the example space marines. If I choose space marines as the faction that gets access to their army rule, that only applies to space marines. So it there's an interesting game when you're list building there of how much do you want to put in your list that has access to say oath of moment, but they don't get a detachment or stratagem. The next level down, and I actually found this is where the majority of the units came from, is your second faction, you pick a detachment, you get access to the detachment rule, you get access to all the detachment unique enhancements and stratagems, but you don't get the the faction's army rule. And that creates another interesting, and again, it only applies to units that come from that faction. So an example there would be if I wanted to pick you know the guard bridgehead strike force detachment. I can't give them orders because that's the army rule, but I do get access to the crazy like it's raining men detachment rule to drop science all over the place. And I would get access to all the stratagems to use on them. So you again in list building it creates this trade-off where it's like, okay, how do I construct my list so that I'm trying to figure out what units benefit the most from their army rule, what other units can can live without their army rule, but really need a good detachment rule to function. And then the third layer is whatever you pick is your third faction, it doesn't get an army rule, it doesn't get a detachment rule, but you can pick one stratagem from any detachment in the book, and the units from that army get access to that. And I found that that was the minority. Typically, you're playing 500 points or less putting in the list, and it's the equivalent of playing something you would soup. But you get one you get one stratagem that you can apply to that, so you get a way to buff it up, and you're doing more than just playing the the data sheet. And I actually found building it out, it came up with some pretty spicy lists.

SPEAKER_01 14:35

I really like third layer. That's like that's like you're calling Babe Ruth off the bench with like you just know he's gonna point to the outfield and crush it.

SPEAKER_00 14:49

Well, wait till you see what some of the choices I put in for the third layer are. I'm okay, all right. This is cool. Okay. Alright, so I'm excited. So, how much do you want me to drag this on before you make your decision? Do you want me to walk through each of the lists and we can talk about the units and reminisce about why they're there and then at the end you make your decision? Or do you just want to like I've already chosen Team Chaos? Do you want to pick Xenos or Imperium now?

SPEAKER_01 15:20

I mean, I so alright, so when you're laying this out, right, I'm sitting here going, who who would I go with, right? Because I love the guard, and there's a lot of things inside of the guard that I can I could see going this way. But I feel like

Team Chaos

SPEAKER_01 15:38

my heart is already telling me you have to go Xenos. You have to.

SPEAKER_00 15:45

So let's walk through all three then. We'll start with chaos, then I'll go Imperium, and I'll end with Xenos, and we can have the ultimate punchline being your choice and why. All right.

SPEAKER_01 15:58

So it's all about me. It's all about me, everyone.

SPEAKER_00 16:01

It is all well, it's gonna start being all about me.

SPEAKER_01 16:04

Oh, okay, alright. Steal my thunder. Okay, got it.

SPEAKER_00 16:07

Alright, so we'll start with the chaos list. Steve, do you want to guess which faction I pitch pick to have their detach or their army rule for?

SPEAKER_01 16:15

I mean, I can't even imagine. I'm sure that, you know. I'm sure that, you know, the whips and chains had nothing to do with it, right?

SPEAKER_00 16:25

So faction one within Team Chaos are the Emperor's Children with their army rule of thrill seekers. Faction two for Team Chaos with the detachment of creations of Bile are the Chaos Space Marines. Really?

SPEAKER_01 16:44

Oh man, okay.

SPEAKER_00 16:45

And oh no. Go ahead. Tell me. And and faction three with a single stratagem that I will disclose later are the chaos knights. Really? Yeah. So, all right, here's the list. You ready? The Power Rangers are making an appearance, okay. So we'll start there actually, because you brought it up. So the sole representative of the Chaos Knights is the Red Ranger himself. The knight jerk. The Knight Rampager.

SPEAKER_01 17:20

Yeah, this is this jerk that I couldn't remove with my slapjacks.

SPEAKER_00 17:25

Yep, he is the knight that would not die in the game I played of Chaos Knights, Lords of Dread against your Leagues of Otan, and he single-handedly broke your will and led to a turn two concession.

SPEAKER_01 17:38

Yep, yep. That was not my best night. Get it? See what I did there.

SPEAKER_00 17:43

I I did and you the stratagem I've chosen to give him access to from the Lord of Dread's detachment is called Spiteful Demise, which is it blows up on a three plus.

SPEAKER_01 17:54

Now that I want to see, okay. So I'm I'm here for that. So I I I might re I might even root for that.

SPEAKER_00 18:02

Yep. So that's the first one. That's pretty good. That's the only representative of uh of Team Chaos or of Team Chaos Knights. The CSM list, which is the I would say they're doing the heavy lifting in the list.

SPEAKER_01 18:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

So I have two Chaos Rhinos, because they are very germane to how I go about playing the game. I have Cypher, which is the lone op guy, and one, he goes in every Chaos Space Marine list that I build because he's really good.

SPEAKER_01 18:37

Two And he's really hard to kill, and you have to pin him down in a corner.

SPEAKER_00 18:41

And he annoys the crap out of you. And also I have a custom cipher model, which is a lady, which bugs every Dark Angel player I've ever played against, which I think is hilarious. So Cyphers in there because it it's personally one of my favorite units. And there are some concessions as we went through this where I put in things that you need to play the game. So ciphers in there to play a position.

SPEAKER_01 19:09

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 19:10

Next one, similar, 10 cultist mobs. So 10 little cultists to sit on my home field and just you know sticky it and then score points. They're 50 points. That's just a utilitarian. I think I've played cultists in every single list that I've played. And they're also in there because these 10 cultists that I that I typically play were models that I got from other Josh that go back way back to like fifth edition or something, and then I think it's cool to play with kind of some old school throwback models that a friend gifted to me. So those are in there. I didn't even know that. Yeah, he gave me that in a Hell Brute and a couple of chosen. Oh. And so they're awesome. And they're always the first ones to come off the bench when I play those units.

SPEAKER_01 19:54

Plus, they're kind of annoying. And for a little scrappy unit, like that doesn't really do much, they're they're actually kind of like a pain in the butt to deal with.

SPEAKER_00 20:03

They are the first game I ever played against you with Chaos Space Marines, the game came down to a bottom of turn five. Yeah. I tried to charge ten cultists into your Bane Blade. I remember this. Followed by a squad of raptors charging the Bane Blade, because the thought process was I could just get enough cultists onto the objective, like two of them, that if the raptors could use their data sheet ability to battle shock your Bane Blade, I would take the center of objective and I would beat you by five points.

SPEAKER_01 20:43

Did that go?

SPEAKER_00 20:44

And it didn't happen. I think you like you needed to roll a seven and you rolled a seven.

SPEAKER_01 20:50

Yeah, I remember.

SPEAKER_00 20:51

But you were so like on your the edge of your seat about it because I had been hiding those cultists in terrain all game long.

SPEAKER_01 21:03

I forgot about them. I completely forgot about 'em.

SPEAKER_00 21:07

Bottom of five, they come roaring out of terrain to charge a bane blade.

SPEAKER_01 21:12

Like, where the hell do they come from?

SPEAKER_00 21:14

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 21:15

You're like, oh, they've been there the whole game, you idiot. You should have looked behind that. I was like, oh, I would have shot that a long time ago.

SPEAKER_00 21:23

Yep. So they're in there. Um and then the the last one in for uh Team Chaos are five warp talons. And they're in there a little bit for utilitarian reasons. Also, they are one of my favorite models because if I can get them going with their uppy downy ability, I get really excited about that. They also are in there because I think the second time we played CSM versus your Leagues of OTAN, they're the unit that I could not make work because they got tar pitted by a squad of Yay girls.

SPEAKER_01 21:58

Yeah. It was probably the best. Best use of Yay girls I've ever had. Yep. Oh, we we we don't call them Jaegers, we call them Yay girls just for everybody. It's just funnier, and we make stupid jokes in the barn about it.

SPEAKER_00 22:11

Yep, and they stonewalled my warp talons, held them in place for a turn until you could shoot them off the board with a hackathon.

SPEAKER_01 22:20

I'm realizing that we have a lot of really silly names for units on the board. And as we like one of the things about this podcast, I struggle because I want to say the silly name, and then I'm like, oh no, my brain goes blank, and I'm like, what's it actually called?

SPEAKER_00 22:36

Yep. So all right, so that's CSM. Oh no, and then sorry, it going inside the rhinos in rhino number one is Fabius Bile with Ten Chosen.

SPEAKER_01 22:49

Of course.

SPEAKER_00 22:51

Yep, it it's another staple for when I play. They are in there because at one of our Barnhammers before we started the podcast, I think it was actually right after Grotmus when Creations of Bile came out. I played against Cousin Josh when he was playing Starshadow Arsenal, and Bile and Ten Chosen punched out a void dragon.

SPEAKER_01 23:14

Yeah, I remember.

SPEAKER_00 23:16

Like just stonewalled him in his deployment zone with a turn one YOLO charge and punched out the void dragon in turn two.

SPEAKER_01 23:25

You also beat the crap out of my codex first first time playing Codex uh Votan with him, which was fun. And the slingshot move that you do with your rhino, which was first time I saw that on the board. That was fun. Which actually my enthusiasm.

SPEAKER_00 23:47

Which leads to the the last of the the units, which is five legionaries with a chaos lord with the prime test subject enhancement, which is the combination that did the infamous against your Votan. Steve tells everyone in the room to shut up because he wants to figure out who just kicked him. Because that's the unit that came screaming out of a rhino and blew your hearthguard off an objective in turn four.

SPEAKER_01 24:16

Wait, wait, hold on. Everybody stop. What just happened? Everybody's laughing and joking, and you're talking about this, and you're picking up my models and handing them to me, and I'm going, what just happened?

SPEAKER_00 24:33

Yep. So that's the that's the CSM portion.

SPEAKER_01 24:38

And then lastly, the most important that's kind of a scary list so far, dude. I'm not gonna lie to you.

SPEAKER_00 24:43

That that is a little oh that all of them are scary in their own way.

SPEAKER_01 24:48

Yeah. So I'm I'm waiting to see what else you got because that that is kind of scary.

SPEAKER_00 24:54

So for the Emperor's children, which is the most important part of the list. Uh another concession to utility. I have six or sorry, five tormentors, which are their battle line, have guns, can do actions and sit on objectives, guys.

SPEAKER_01 25:11

Yeah, they're just task lords.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

Yep. They're just they're they're the equivalent of standard space marines, except they can advance and shoot and they can stick the objectives. And then the other two, the first one is six noise marines. They're good. They're also super cool, and they are probably the Empress Children unit that you have talked the second most about this edition of wanting to see on the board because I think they're the models that you think are the coolest. At least the ones that don't have wings that are the coolest.

SPEAKER_01 25:48

I think one, you've done a fabulous job painting them. Two, the models themselves are just wicked cool. So they're under barefoot.

SPEAKER_00 25:57

They're there because they're good, but also for aesthetic reasons and because I know you really want to see them play. And then the last one, to round out the list, the man, the myth, the legend himself, Mr. Fulgram. And he's there because he is, I think, the highest quality painted unit that I have ever painted.

SPEAKER_01 26:23

I think that Fulgram represents a lot of things that are really cool about 10th edition. And I think it's it's fun that that he is gonna be the pinnacle of your army for your all-star game. I think that's really like that's super cool, man. So yeah, now I'm excited about this list. I mean, it it's it's a little scary. I mean, it's daunting, right? I have some butterflies. We're doing this, you know, in real real time, so I gotta not screw it up. But there's a lot of firepower in that list you made. That's that's that's pretty good.

Team Imperium

SPEAKER_00 27:01

It's an all-star game, man.

SPEAKER_01 27:02

It's there's there's firepower in all-star games, too. I I get it. I mean, you you're you're you got some home run derby contestants there.

SPEAKER_00 27:11

Alright. So you want to move on to to now your two options will make it all about you.

SPEAKER_01 27:18

Yeah. Yeah. I I I'll be honest with you. I I don't think this is much of a contest. The more and more you are going through yours, the more and more I'm I'm uh but uh I'll heal them out.

SPEAKER_00 27:30

Alright, so Team Imperium. The first entry for Team Imperium with the army rule of Gate of Infinity are the Grey Knights. Yeah. The second faction on Team Imperium choosing the detachment of Iron Storm Spearhead are the Space Marines.

SPEAKER_01 27:55

Yeah, I was gonna I honestly thought you were gonna go with Iron Storm for the first detachment or for the first, but I get why you're bringing in the detachment rules there and not the army rule. That makes sense. Yep, yep, yep, that makes a lot of sense.

SPEAKER_00 28:09

And then the third faction for Team Imperium, choosing the single stratagem of reinforcements are the Astra Militarum, the Imperial Guard.

SPEAKER_01 28:19

Yeah, so so essentially you're bringing people back.

SPEAKER_00 28:26

Yeah, that's pretty cool. Yeah, yeah, and so the roster here, and I'll go top to bottom on this one. So for the for the gray knights, the first one, and this is a shout out to my kids because they named this model is the Grandmaster and Nemesis Dread Knight, otherwise known as Whoopsie.

SPEAKER_01 28:49

The man who can never make a charge with him.

SPEAKER_00 28:52

The man who cannot make a five-inch charge to save his life. He's the first gray knight in there.

SPEAKER_01 28:59

I've never seen you more frustrated with a faction than when you play Grey Knights because it never fails that the dice gods just will hu you know, they'll humble you.

SPEAKER_00 29:10

Yep. So that's the first one. The second unit for Grey Knights, and it's gonna be a little bit weaker without access to the warping task force detachment, but is still an absolute chad of a unit. It's Castle and Crow and 10 Purifiers. I mean, yeah. Which is my favorite Grey Knight model.

SPEAKER_01 29:33

I was gonna say that's that's your like jam, right? Like, I know you love that model, I know you love the way that it works with the units. Um, it's still cool to have that on. I I get it. Like you're you light up on the other side of the table when you get to play Castle and Crow. Like you just do. Like, I it's fun to watch you play them, even though I know that there's like all this, oh blah blah blah blah, they're not great, and you know, so on and so forth. Doesn't matter, you still get real excited about playing them, which is kind of awesome. So I get why I get why he's there.

SPEAKER_00 30:12

All right, so those are the gray knights, and I chose them as the lead faction because really they need access to their uppy-downey ability.

SPEAKER_01 30:20

Right. Without that, they're kind of sunk, like to be honest with you.

SPEAKER_00 30:24

They're just straight up slow, they don't function.

SPEAKER_01 30:26

Well, I I thought maybe if you put them second, you'd have like a um Yeah, I don't really know. Now maybe or something like that.

SPEAKER_00 30:39

And Warp Bane is really predicated on being able to teleport wherever you want and have Purifiers set up your rerolls. So it's so I had them go first. Okay. Next one, Space Marines, Iron Storm Spearhead, and I did not choose a specific chapter because I didn't have to, because I don't have any characters in. So Iron Storm Spearhead. I think we've spoken about this a little bit. I think this was the first game of 10th edition that you and I played against each other. It was right when the Space Marines first got their codex. And I brought like oops all tanks and just you messed me up that night.

SPEAKER_01 31:18

I think I ruined your weekend. Pretty much, yeah. Yeah, I'm I'm not gonna lie, I was pretty in my Cheerios after that one.

SPEAKER_00 31:26

So this subset of the list is brought to you by Steve's Ironstorm Trauma. So the first one is with a letter T for trauma. Yep. It's first one is a repulsor executioner, which is one of the tanks that was blowing your Sagittarius and Hecatons off the board. This is where we had the argument of is a Hecaton a tank. Yeah, this is the one where you got over in your I still remember you after we ended the game, you picked up your favorite Hecaton model and like ran across the board or across the table to get right up in my personal space, and you're going, Space Marines are so OP. This is a Hecaton land fortress, Eric. A Hecaton land fortress, and you just looked at you and took it off the board like it didn't even matter. How are these things even remotely the same? And you did not appreciate when I pointed out that the Repulser Executioner was not a good comparison for the Hecaton Land Fortress.

SPEAKER_01 32:32

Yeah. It was an uh it was uh it was an emotional experience.

SPEAKER_00 32:38

Yep, it it's that was when Steve realized we weren't playing ninth anymore. Dorothy wasn't in Kansas anymore.

SPEAKER_01 32:44

Yeah, no, they nerfed the crap out of that thing, and who man, did we feel it that night?

SPEAKER_00 32:51

Yep, so yikes. So the thought process was Repulser Executioner and Iron Storm go in there so you can get a little bit of your own back. Yeah. Next one, which was the second, uh actually the there were three real main culprits in that game. So this was the second one was a regular land raider with the Godhammer Laz Cannons. So, and inside the Land Raider, and this one is less about what they did in a specific game and more about the silly nicknames that we give to units, are ten hell blasters with a lieutenant.

SPEAKER_01 33:33

We won't talk about the name we give those units online. We're just gonna let's imagination run with what we give the name to those units. They bought finger guns.

SPEAKER_02 33:47

Pew pew pew.

SPEAKER_00 33:49

We say it a lot. So they're in there to come out of the Land Raider and blast away with their finger guns. Oh my god. Yes. And and the lieutenant is there to give them lethal hits. I didn't have enough points in to actually shoehorn what was the favorite combo you used to play when you would play salamanders or blood angels very early in 10th, which is I couldn't quite fit an apothecary in there to allow you to resurrect a hell blaster after he blew his brains out by overcharging. Sometimes you just get your brains blown out. Yep. So they're in there. Um the I think the sole concession to utility from a space marine perspective, a s a scout squad, so you have access to uh a level of uppy-downy and doing actions and some infiltrating and scout move shenanigans.

SPEAKER_01 34:44

Yeah, you get to get to do a little bit of uh blocking and shielding and you know moving on the deployment, so that's cool.

SPEAKER_00 34:53

And then the last of the ironstorm culprits, the gladiator lancer tank. Which is the other one that was making hecatons go away during that game we played way back in the day.

SPEAKER_01 35:09

I think there were two of them on the table.

SPEAKER_00 35:12

Uh the other one was a gladiator reaper. He was making all your infantry go away.

SPEAKER_01 35:16

Yeah. Yeah. It just felt like and I remember this is where we had our first like terrain conversation.

SPEAKER_00 35:24

Oh, yeah. Because uh we were doing player place terrain, and I run the roll off, and I was like, I'm gonna put the lowest piece of terrain that we have right smack dab in the middle of the board. Somewhere out there, town players approved.

SPEAKER_01 35:37

It was at the end of that game. I don't think you felt good either.

SPEAKER_00 35:43

I felt terrible. But I had a lot of fun building this list right now so that you can get a little bit of vengeance back.

SPEAKER_01 35:51

Yeah, that's fair.

SPEAKER_00 35:53

So that's the Space Marines portion portion. And then for the guard portion, got Gont's ghost in there. I know they are some of your favorite character models. They also provide great utility with their ability to go upy dowdy, have access to low-knop, they're their combination of give you a really cool aesthetic model that is also very competitive and good on the board and and just allows you to play the mission. Yep. Uh one e Canadian shock troops. That's right. Because I know it was a big thing with how you painted your Cadians with a Canadian command squad, and they are there to be your board control piece and potentially a prime target for the reinforcement stratagem.

SPEAKER_01 36:45

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 36:45

And then the last one are 10 Attila and Rough Riders. Heck yeah. They're there as an homage to the infamous guard versus gene stealer cult game because that's the unit that won you the game. MVPs.

SPEAKER_01 37:01

Yep. Absolutely. And and to be honest with you, not my best painted models, but my favorite looking models. Um, just because I don't know if you guys have ever painted Rough Riders, holy cow. That is they are a mind bend um to paint. And but they are so cool when

Team Xenos

SPEAKER_01 37:27

they're on on the table. They just look so cool. So yeah, I'm I'm here for that one.

SPEAKER_00 37:34

So you sure you don't want to pick Team Imperium, Steve?

SPEAKER_01 37:39

That sounds like you made it kind of tough. Like, I'll be honest with you. I kind of was like, no, no, I'm I'm definitely going Xenos here, I think. But I don't know. Now I'm now I'm undecided. So now I have to hear what you've come up with for the other one.

SPEAKER_00 37:56

Alright, so that this one's pretty spicy. I like Team Xenos as well. I like all three. I I'm pretty proud of Team Xenos. So Team Xenos, the first faction, are the Necrons with the army rule of reanimation protocols.

SPEAKER_01 38:13

Of course.

SPEAKER_00 38:14

I mean it had to be, right? It had to be. Okay. The second faction are the Leagues of Votan with the detachment Need Guard Oath Band. And the third faction are the Tyranids. And I chose the stratagem from Crusher Stampede Detachment, Corrosive Viscera. And you want to know what that means, Steve? Yep. It means they all blow up.

SPEAKER_01 38:45

Yep. You know what's gonna happen here, right? I love the list that you made for the Imperium. I do, but it's not gonna happen. But I had you that they all blow up. I think that that is the one big thing in this game that I don't care who you are, if you're on either side of the table, like, okay, you probably don't want it to blow up because it's gonna hurt your units or whatever, but there's a little part of you that's like, yeah, chaos. Like, everybody wants to see it blow up. So yeah, and I one of my favorite games was actually when we were playing with one of your sons, and we just decided, yeah, it's not like official rule or anything like that, but we just decided, hey, we're gonna give everything that's big on the table the ability to blow up. And it was so cool, and he got so excited about it because it got to the point where I I I actually think I was I was winning the game, not not trying to, it just happened to go that way. It's a dice game. Um, and it got to be like we really didn't care who was winning the game at that point. It was just more about like what's gonna happen when this one blows up, and then it would blow up, and we would get really excited about rolling sixes and you know, just I don't know, silly. So, yeah, that happened in 10th, and it was a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_00 40:14

So funny you should bring that game up. And we'll go bottom to top on this one. Actually, we'll go tyranids, necrons, and then we'll end with the Leagues of Otan. So, do you remember at the time what my son's absolute favorite model was, and you got a kick out of listening to him try and pronounce the name of it?

SPEAKER_01 40:34

Isn't it um I could see the model, but I can't think of its name.

SPEAKER_00 40:39

Uh the Winged Hive Tyrant, yeah. So that's the first model in the list for the Tyranids.

SPEAKER_01 40:49

I love it.

SPEAKER_00 40:50

Okay. The second model in the list for the Tyranids, and this one goes back to I think we've talked about this game in the podcast, but we played a game where you and my youngest son played on one team against our friend Chris, and we were playing the Hugger Stampede Tyranids against the Wa Tang clan orcs, and we had a sequence where it was like four things in a row blew up, and not like just over the course of the game.

SPEAKER_01 41:21

It was literally no, it actually happened in the game, right? It was like a chain reaction, right?

SPEAKER_00 41:26

Yeah, tyranid blows up, and which blows up an orc battle wagon. So Chris used careen, so it drove into another Tyranid before it blew up, and it took it on the Tyranid, which then blew up, which took a truck next to it. Like, that's the one where I came back from like I don't know, helping your wife clean up from dinner or something, and everyone in the barn was on the floor laughing.

SPEAKER_01 41:50

Yeah, it was good. Yeah, no one could believe it. The amount of things that just had to go right in that moment for everything to go off, and it it worked, and it was I I just I remember so not to get like too off the subject, but like one of the things about Warhammer that I do love is that you can kind of find your own thing in it, and I just remember looking at your son, and you know, he was a young kid. I I don't I don't remember how old he was, like maybe 10 or so or something like that. And you know, he's playing with adults in the garage, and we're all into this thing doing something together, and he felt included, and we felt like we were having a blast, and like I don't know, it can it can just it can bring that stuff out of you too, right? So like there's there's there's that cool part of of Warhammer that I think um you know this choice of these things for the the all-star game kind of represent that part for me.

SPEAKER_00 43:03

So and I think that that's exactly the intention behind this this wild and crazy idea. But the next model I chose for tyrannids was the model that started that wacky sequence of everything blowing up, which is the Norn Emissary. Yeah, the emissary, yep. Cool, and then the the last Tyranid model, and there's a little bit of like we don't have a cool story, but it's a shout out to our friend Brad. It also gives you a little bit of what you wish your hecaton would be. I gave you the Terran effects, which comes with the Tyranid equivalent of a rail gun. Yeah. See, Brad, rail gun. It's got a rupture cannon. I like it. Alright, so that's the tyranids, and again, they are all monsters, which means they all blow up if you spend one CP on corrosive viscera.

SPEAKER_01 43:59

So you Want to know why Tyranids is pretty cool? And this is a bigger thing, not just the 10th edition thing, but so tyrannids actually maybe sort of kind of got me into 40k. Um, and it's a it's a little bit of a diatrip, so I'll go down this really quickly. But when so cousin Josh was the one that spread the plague, and he loves to tell everybody that he did. And and he gets to own that. Granted, um other Josh and Chris were playing this way before any of us. Um, but he kind of like came up here um one weekend and dropped this nuke of uh this is 40k. And one of the things that that we talked about was when he was showing it to me and he was showing me his models and the things that him and Brad were doing. Um he's like, yeah, he's like, the only issue is like this stuff is really expensive, and sometimes we can't fully play because you know we have to save up our money to to buy you know these really expensive models. And I was like, huh. So I started looking around and I started thinking about stuff, and the engineering side of me, I was like, well, well, dang. I got a 3D printer. Betcha I could maybe print one of these things, and then you can use that till you can buy the real one, right? And so the first thing that the first model that I actually ever own was a lictor. Because I made it, and that was it from that point on. I think they came up one weekend and we played, and I was like, oh, this is really cool. And I went out and I bought my first um my first orc model, which was uh Oh my gosh, I can't even remember now. I can't remember what my first orc model was. But anyway, I bought my first orc model and uh I painted it that weekend, and I was like, wow, this is really cool and I love it, and I've been hooked ever since. Very cool bit of a tangent story, but it's kind of fun that the even though I haven't played Tyranids in 10th edition, I've played against them a lot. So yeah, it's kind of cool that they're there.

SPEAKER_00 46:29

Alright, cool. So we'll go up to Necrons now. And this one, I'm curious to see how these perform on the board because Necrons to me was actually the toughest thing to pull in because they have the most back and forth overlap between their army rule and detachment rules. Okay. So army rule, reanimation protocols, so they do get reanimation. First one Catan Shard of the Void Dragon.

SPEAKER_02 47:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 47:03

And this is on here because of how upset Cousin Josh got when you put it in sad peacock tier of the wing tier list. Like he there was almost a family incident when that happened. Well, to be fair, they're not real wings. You don't have to explain yourself to me. I'm just saying that's why it's in here, because I found I was on all those texts back and forth, and I thought it was hilarious. I mean, they're not real. I don't want to sell it. So yeah, Catan Shard of the Void Dragon is it is the first one in there. It is the only Catan in there. I debated the Nightbringer, but I settled on the Void Dragon because I think the shout out to the little beef that you and Cousin Josh had over you disparaging its wings. Also, it is, I think, Cousin Josh's favorite Catan.

SPEAKER_01 48:04

I think so. Yeah, I think so. Although I think he loves them all equally. They're like his little children.

SPEAKER_00 48:11

Fair. Alright, next one, and this is from the list that Cousin Josh has played the most games in 10th edition with. The backbone of what we called the BDE list. Orican Diviner with 10 with 20 Necron Warriors, with an overlord, with a translocation shroud, and a resurrection orb.

SPEAKER_01 48:35

Love it. Love it. Make warriors great again. Let's do this.

SPEAKER_00 48:40

Yep. And then the last one, which is a buff piece to accompany the warriors, is a canoptic reanimator.

SPEAKER_01 48:47

Yeah. Okay. So my I know how all of that plays too.

SPEAKER_00 48:53

So my only worry is it's not going to be as good as we're used to because it's missing a ghost arc and it's missing access to the one key stratagem um protocol of the undying legion that it abuses to create the unkillable warrior blob. So that that may be something that once we get into the game, we call an audible and we give the Necrons access to that stratagem.

SPEAKER_01 49:20

I don't know. I because we don't have to use it as an unkillable warrior blob. We can just use it as I can keep bringing things back and kind of yeah, I I think there might be ways of doing this where you don't need to make any concessions on your rules.

unknown 49:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 49:37

So that that's the necrons. Because I'm hoping I'm hoping that you make up for this inside of the next faction, which okay, all right. I have a confession to make on the faction stuff, right? On on choosing Xenos, because I'm choosing Xenos at this point. I kinda maybe sorta always wanted to play Necrons. And I I actually really love Necrons.

SPEAKER_00 50:13

I mean, they fit your playstyle like a glove. So I'm I'm so excited to see you play Team Xenos, because it's the one when I was making the list. I'm like, I think between the Tyranids that all blow up and the Necron backbone, and then just enough of his beloved dwarves, I think this one's got Steve's name all over it.

SPEAKER_01 50:36

Yeah, I'm excited to play this already. And and I'm kind of counting in my head at where we're at in points, and I'm like, okay, all right, I think we can work with this. So all right, lay it on me. What's the Votan got?

SPEAKER_00 50:48

All right, so I'm gonna do a slow wind up to the real punchline here. So two units of bikes, they can be run as two three men, they can be run as one six-man. They're there because you've had a love-hate relationship with bikes basically since the Votan came out. But I think you actually have gotten to the point where you play them really well. I have a very distinct memory of them killing a great unclean one when we played a game against my demons. And so they are there a little bit as a utility piece, a little bit of me tweaking you because I know that they are your least favorite model to assemble and paint, and you don't love the aesthetics of them, and also because I think they represent something that show your improvement as a player over the edition.

SPEAKER_01 51:38

That's fair. I like it. Yeah, they're they're not my favorite model, but they're a model that I have found the value in over 10th edition. And the cool news is I, you know, we're doing this, and there was a couple leaks today on 11th, and it looks like maybe there's some stuff that's getting worked on to make the bikes a little bit more effective, which is pretty cool. So yeah, I'm good with the bikes.

SPEAKER_00 52:05

All right, next one, and it's here because I think it's your one of your favorite characters. It is my favorite of the models you've painted, which is Bury.

SPEAKER_01 52:16

Yeah, yeah. I put my heart and soul into that one, so I'm all for it. I really like the model.

SPEAKER_00 52:25

You haven't played him a ton because he's he's been just a little bit too expensive, all edition. But I think an all-star game is a good time to bring him out. He does hit hard, man. He really can whack. All right. Next one after that, uh, and this is another can be run as two three-man units or one big six-man. I split it up into two three-man because they don't have a transport to go inside. So part of the thought process is they could start in strategic reserves and then come in off a board edge and blast something, are two two units of Broke here Thunderkin with their conversion beamers, so that you can use the stratagem. And one of the other concessions I made from a rules perspective is I assumed for the Leagues of OTAN, you are still tracking yield points, but you don't get to oscillate back and forth between hostile takeover and fortified acquisition.

SPEAKER_01 53:27

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:29

But you don't get the bonus of it, but you can spend them for your stratagems.

SPEAKER_01 53:34

Yeah, that makes sense. Kind of sad that you didn't call them our our name for them.

SPEAKER_00 53:40

I was gonna say that's the other reason they're here. Our our beloved friend Brad, and we call them the Bradkin Thunder Dumpers.

SPEAKER_01 53:50

One day on the podcast, when you meet Brad, he can explain to you why.

SPEAKER_00 53:54

Yeah, because they hide in hollybushes.

SPEAKER_01 53:58

Just know that uh just you yeah, put two and two together. They're Bradkin Thunder Dumpers, and they hide in hollybushes. Nope.

SPEAKER_00 54:07

Which leads to the last one. And come on. We're gonna have to take someone out of his timeout. That's right. The Ineer Champion and five Ineier Hearthguard are coming out of their timeout box of shame on your barn wall. That's right. To come back and give it a go again.

SPEAKER_01 54:27

We will give him a chance to redeem himself. He's gonna have a tough uphill battle, I think, here, but he's gonna get a chance to redeem himself. We'll see. We shall see how he plays. So that's that's Team Xenos. I'm in, man. I think this is really cool. I I think so. If I had to talk about things that make me a little nervous based on the the kind of layout, right? Um, you got some swanky stuff, right? And you have a little bit more mobility than I think I do. Um, but with that, I think that there's an aspect of the list that you gave me where it's kind of like a little bit of a slow-moving death ball. Um, you're not gonna want to get it's kind of tough because you know, you're you're kind of chaos aspect still wants to kind of get in people's face, right?

SPEAKER_00 55:27

Oh, my

Steve's Final Choice

SPEAKER_00 55:28

the entire chaos list is built around charging things.

SPEAKER_01 55:31

Yeah, and this list is kind of like yeah, we like pain, charge us.

SPEAKER_00 55:39

Yeah, come charge our tyranids, they all blow up, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 55:44

And oh, by the way, there is this katan that's just floating around here doing something, right? And so I know it's this is gonna be fun tomorrow. I cannot wait to play this game. So, final answer. I'm playing Xenos 100% playing Xenos. And then you know what? At some point, maybe we'll do the Xenos one, this one, and then maybe we'll do the Imperium one in another time. Um, yeah, I have no problem playing them all. I uh thank you for taking the time to put together the list. I I I think this is a really fun and cool idea. I'm hoping that people are getting as big of a kick out of us kind of walking down like what we're trying to do. Um and yeah, and you know, it'll be really fun if we also too do like a little battle report, kind of like a all-star game recap type thing of of the highlights of things that happened throughout the game. I think that'll be a a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_00 56:44

Yeah, what I'll do. It I don't want to do a full written battle report because I want to be able to enjoy the game. And when I do a full written one, I have to sit there with a notebook and take notes on everything that happened. But I think we just used our next podcast episode to recap the game, the high points and and how it went and and whether we enjoyed it or not.

SPEAKER_01 57:04

For sure, for sure. I I again I know that right now everybody's going through kind of the the dolls of waiting for 11th, and we've seen it, right? We've seen it across, you know, just our podcast and and things, you know, but but I've I'm experiencing it too. And you know, I think this is a really cool way for us to kind of one, give it a little bit of a send-off, but two, also, you know, recap some of the real big highlights. So you you I'm really excited, and thank you for doing this, Eric. I appreciate all the work you put into it.

SPEAKER_00 57:39

You're welcome, and thanks for humoring me, because you you understood the intention behind the all-star game, which is it's an it's really meant to be a trip down memory lane for some of the coolest moments we've had playing 10th edition.

SPEAKER_01 57:52

This is gonna be a lot of fun. I'm not gonna sleep tonight thinking about playing this game. I'm actually gonna go out in the barn and I'm gonna go get all my models ready.

SPEAKER_00 58:01

Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna get all mine all packed up too. So it's this will be fun. I'm really looking forward to this one.

SPEAKER_01 58:09

Okay, cool. Well, so we're kind of at the end. So at this point, hopefully, uh, you know, everybody, you know, be prepared. We're gonna come with an update and you know, hopefully we have some really cool highlights to share with all everyone. So really excited and and yeah, yeah, I can't wait till tomorrow now.

SPEAKER_00 58:28

I would love to hear if this is something that folks find interesting and if other folks try this kind of format and this approach. I would love to hear the results of the games and if they have fun with it too.

SPEAKER_01 58:40

Oh, for sure. And one thing that we can do, we can definitely kind of transcribe the structure of the all-star game. Um, and so that others can can kind of follow the the structure as well. That would be pretty cool. We'll post that up.

SPEAKER_00 58:54

Yep. I can put it in the show notes and I can put it on our webpage as well. Awesome.

SPEAKER_01 58:59

Well, hopefully everybody's as excited as we are and and uh look forward to it. So all right, everyone. We'll we'll see how it goes tomorrow. But have a good night.

SPEAKER_00 59:08

Take care, everyone.